Database Info

Is android ruining it for all of us?

Ok, it's quite clear android is the most popular phone OS on the market at the moment but I'm beginning to believe that some of their less customer friendly strategies are making the carriers greedy. Back in the day when I was using my original blackjack each time there was an update to Winmo I knew that within a couple weeks ATT would get it my way without fail. Ever since the G1 though there's a new tactic used of course to sell more phones. Basically they can release the same exact phone with a new version of an OS or maybe a small feature (e.g. front facing camera) and sell just as much as the original. I mean why would carriers want to update your phone for you when they could sell you the exact same phone back with the newest version of android which is likely just a palette swap of the previous version? The refusal of most carriers to update their devices kicked off hard even with the initial release of android. The G1 was essentially the same phone as the MT3g except with the amazing keyboard we all fell in love with. The mytouch released months later with the exact same specs (you can even run the exact same roms on them) and yet the mytouch got an update whereas the G didn't. When people asked T-mobile where their G1 update was T-mobile said that it was not possible to run live wallpapers on such a dated device. Ever since then time and time again carriers and OEMs have let us down not because they cant do it but because they can sell us another device if they won't. A big selling point in getting the behold 2 for me was the fact that it would receive every update according to samsung... They never even built the drivers... I was stuck with a phone with a terrible UI. It happens time and time again and now similar things seem to be happening to other OSes. Blackberry is running into the same kind of thing where that more or less never happened before and I'm not ruling windows phone out just yet but I fear with greedy carriers they may end up following suit as much as I hate to admit it. The OEMs and carriers greed is killing smartphones. I mean android is open source and free, if they want to put it on a toaster they can. How hard is it to update? Really? I mean I know there's some one man teams on XDA who can do it... Dont let smartphones die.

It's not Android. It's more Google's policies. I love Google, but they have to grow some balls and tell the manufacturers that in order to be able to release an Android phone with the Google Apps, they need to release updates in X amount of months maximum after an update is delivered and they must support a phone for at least 2 OS iterations.
Forget Apple. Look at Microsoft. Windows Phone 7 isn't really for me since I like to tinker with my phone, although occasionally I wish it wasn't such a time waster. It is a great OS though. Microsoft first of all tells manufacturers that they can include custom apps, but no custom interfaces (this will never happen with Android). Then, they release an upgrade and all the phones get it. I'll admit it's a little easier since all WP7 have mostly the same parts, and definitely the same Snapdragon CPU since that's all WP7 OS supports right now. But this can totally be done by Google. I think the market is over-saturated with Android phones right now. Choice is good, but I don't want to pick up a phone and then immediately have it deemed obsolete. I mean after a while, I just want to walk away. I love Android, but it is getting kind of ridiculous. Obviously, manufacturers won't listen to us. Google is more likely to. They need to get a hold on things.

I see where you're coming ffrom, but you have to remember that companies (all companies) are here to make money. That's it. Make money.
So they'll mmake phones with skins because they get some percentage back from the phone; granted they could offer a pure Google phone but you have to remember: we aren't fhe target audience.
These phones are made for the average consumer that has the default and maybe twitter and facebook.
Of course, there will always be good pure Google phone out there to snag. I just got the Nexus 1 and ill be using this for a long time.

Hey!! This is really a great thread. I am really very impressed with your conversation.

I feel like I was played I preorderded the mytouch 3g 1.0 for $230 and now its not even sold anymore I wanna upgrade but their telling me its pretty much $300 to upgrade so you mean I get no discount.....wth? 8 years with T-Mobile and I get nothing
Sent from my HTC Magic/Dream using XDA App

butch87402 said:
I feel like I was played I preorderded the mytouch 3g 1.0 for $230 and now its not even sold anymore I wanna upgrade but their telling me its pretty much $300 to upgrade so you mean I get no discount.....wth? 8 years with T-Mobile and I get nothing
Sent from my HTC Magic/Dream using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that's more a T-Mobile issue than an Android issue, but I feel your pain.

All carriers are interested in is selling contracts and phones. They don't really care about peoples experiences after that point. They certainly won't want to encourage people to hang on to the same devices for years, but i think they should obligated to support their phones for at least the duration of the warranty. Any software updates released within that period should be pushed out immediately.

Don't be anxious, when u check technology developments in the past 20 years or more. How can we tell the difference between technology innovation and hunger for money?
'Greedy' is the nature of us human beings and it give us more happy and distress.

It's not the carriers you need to be worried about. Android is a fantastic OS and I love it and have gotten into the inner workings of it lately, to realize one thing: Google drives this whole deal. And since Google makes 98% of its money off of its Adsense program, wouldn't you agree that they would like to maintain/build that as much as possible? The more Google knows about where you are, your likes and dislikes, what you search for, etc, the better they can facilitate their moneymaking process. Google Apps (Gapps) are the way they do this, and why they are not included in a 'real' open souce project. Think it's bad now? Wait till Honeycomb....I've been tweaking this for the past 3 weeks and you wouldn't believe the permission changes that are related to google. Little things that were Hardware processes before (alert me when near an open wifi) are now basically (alert google your location thru gps at all times.). Of course there are ways around it, but the avg. user won't know that. Just fyi.

If anything Apple ruined it for us.
Imagine a world without iphones.
Microsoft wouldn't have had it to copy for WP7, instead they would have had been free to release WM7, with all the features of WM, and also designed for future technologies.
Even if they had copied Android, we'd have a decent Microsoft OS for our phones unlike now.

xaccers said:
If anything Apple ruined it for us.
Imagine a world without iphones.
Microsoft wouldn't have had it to copy for WP7, instead they would have had been free to release WM7, with all the features of WM, and also designed for future technologies.
Even if they had copied Android, we'd have a decent Microsoft OS for our phones unlike now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Initially I thought you were an intelligent person one could have an adult debate with based on facts. Thank you for proving me wrong only in that sense and in no way in any of the debates.

z33dev33l said:
Initially I thought you were an intelligent person one could have an adult debate with based on facts. Thank you for proving me wrong only in that sense and in no way in any of the debates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're on WP7 so apple's model has more impact on you than googles.
Are you suggesting that MS may stop deplying updates for WP7 or start allowing carriers to not deploy updates MS provide?
If not, then how exactly does google/carriers releasing new features to stimulate handset sales ruin it for WP7 or iphone users for that matter?
Carriers have always behaved this way, whatever the OS unless contractually obliged to roll out updates.
We missed out on so many updates for Nokias for instance, so this has nothing to do with google or android.

xaccers said:
You're on WP7 so apple's model has more impact on you than googles.
Are you suggesting that MS may stop deplying updates for WP7 or start allowing carriers to not deploy updates MS provide?
If not, then how exactly does google/carriers releasing new features to stimulate handset sales ruin it for WP7 or iphone users for that matter?
Carriers have always behaved this way, whatever the OS unless contractually obliged to roll out updates.
We missed out on so many updates for Nokias for instance, so this has nothing to do with google or android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cant say I have much experience with Symbian devices but on Winmo, palm, and earlier blackberries I always got updates. Android has shown they dont need to maintain their devices to sale them and I believe that can have a negative impact on phones as a whole

The fact is it has been going on long before android came on the scene. Motorola, samsung, lg, and many others forced you to get a new handset to take advantage of new features.
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
Especially as many android handsets have recieved updates which negates your idea that android prevents this.

xaccers said:
The fact is it has been going on long before android came on the scene. Motorola, samsung, lg, and many others forced you to get a new handset to take advantage of new features.
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
Especially as many android handsets have recieved updates which negates your idea that android prevents this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not so much that they prevent it as it is that they dont even really suggest it. It's just like "Oh, btw heres this update. You dont have to put work forth to put it on your device but it's there if you want it. It's really the OEMs and carriers fault as I stated but the fact that android doesnt put something forth to at least suggest it is sad.

So your argument is, even though you can't stand android and won't touch it, you think it is wrong of google to not interfere with carriers and manufacturers in dictacting whether updates it produces are made available to handsets and this somehow is ruining WP7 for you, but despite this being normal practice between carriers and manufacturers since time immemorial, your singling out of android (even though phones have actually been recieving updates) rather than manufacturers or carriers is nothing at all to do with your dislike of android, right?

xaccers said:
So your argument is, even though you can't stand android and won't touch it, you think it is wrong of google to not interfere with carriers and manufacturers in dictacting whether updates it produces are made available to handsets and this somehow is ruining WP7 for you, but despite this being normal practice between carriers and manufacturers since time immemorial, your singling out of android (even though phones have actually been recieving updates) rather than manufacturers or carriers is nothing at all to do with your dislike of android, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never said I hated android. It's just second best now. Of course phones lose support over time but not before they even hit shelves. When the Galaxy S phones were coming out they were promised a fast update to 2.2. It only took T-mobile 6+ months of customers complaining for them to be the first to update it stateside. My old blackjack made by the exact same company was recieving its last update at the end of my contract a full two years later. The HTC touch did the same, hell even my PPC6800 would've had that not been where I started flashing roms. Android phones are burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit shelves and that is something new. I dont expect a phone to be supported forever but for them to stop support by the time it hits shelves is just sad.

T-mobile are not google/android, they're a carrier.
Android handsets have recieved updates, therefore your statement that they are left to rot by the time they hit the shelves is not true (there's a suprise).
Apple/WP7 interfere with carriers and dictate to them what updates should be released (even if they haven't thought it would be a good idea to test it before the release to carriers) therefore your suggestion that Android is ruining it for all of us is also not true (again big suprise).
Additionally, when a new version is released, it does not prevent phones running the old versions from running, nor does it prevent them accessing the thousands of apps currently in the market, again showing that android phones aren't burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit the shelves.

xaccers said:
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen.
[10 char]

xaccers said:
T-mobile are not google/android, they're a carrier.
Android handsets have recieved updates, therefore your statement that they are left to rot by the time they hit the shelves is not true (there's a suprise).
Apple/WP7 interfere with carriers and dictate to them what updates should be released (even if they haven't thought it would be a good idea to test it before the release to carriers) therefore your suggestion that Android is ruining it for all of us is also not true (again big suprise).
Additionally, when a new version is released, it does not prevent phones running the old versions from running, nor does it prevent them accessing the thousands of apps currently in the market, again showing that android phones aren't burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit the shelves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats funny because I just flashed my G1 back to stop and I cant access a ton of the apps... I said it was the fault of the carriers and OEMs though I do wish android would at least suggest updating. I mean of all the android devices out there what percent of them do you think actually receive updates through the service providers or OEMs?

Fragmentation is the reason we don't have official gb

I am genuinely pissed after they postponed the ICS event because I felt like that would be the infuses' time to get current with its OS. Maybe I'm venting my frustration a bit but 500K+ devices are turned on per day(at least for the next few months). I see that version pie chart and Froyo is still number 1 despite GB releasing roughly 10 months ago(not to mention a new version is weeks from releasing) . It's exactly why I come here.
I would also like to point out that the Fragmentation also causes what I like to call a popularity contest. Yes you have a crap ton of device options but guess what the carriers and manufacturer are making sure the cash cows are first in line. Do you think they have as many engineers/developers working with the ChaCha as they do on sgs2? Hell no
Why is Google shooting themselves in the foot in staying current? Why on earth haven't they sat down with the phone manufacturers and hammered out some sort of standard to speed up adoption of new OS?
Android has a wide array of devices and that makes them unique and better than the competition by offering choice.
I understand that the burden of keeping up to speed primarily falls to the manufacturer/carriers which blows for us. The maker/google contract states the carrier only has update the device for 18 months. The definition and or frequency of an update is obscure at best.
I don't even want to guess how much money is being wasted on development overlapping costs because of the hodgepodge of devices. I tried to find out exactly how many hardware devices are currently supported. I found a list of everything but no summary I didn't feel like counting the but a good estimate is 350 + worldwide.
I understand the development life cycle as well as a hardware life-cycle. I fail to understand why integration of an update takes longer than one quarter to apply.
Google develops tests and releases system updates. The manufacturers takes that update and tests it with their bull**** on top (IE touch wiz and sense) then they test on devices.
Carriers finally now test the update, certify it, and push to users(never pushed at one time because they would never risk any downtime or damage to their network).
Wtf google step your game up and reduce the impact of Fragmentation because its only going to get worse and worse.
I'm the kind of device user that makes a well informed decision and won't get a new device until it breaks or I lose it(wow thinking about it I really am horrible with phones).
I have had this phone since it came out in April and I love it (I left it in a cab during the first 2 weeks I had it but was able to get my replacement soon after). Basically I'm a day one Adopter I had my original rooted and rom'd. It drastically improved the general usability of the phone. I decided to wait to mod the phone until I got the official gb to see what it could bring to the table. I really like the one click update with no issues but my hand has been forced. My device has been becoming noticeably slower and i find myself pulling the battery at least once every 2 days. To use it as a phone like it was intended I need to port to a mod. The
Thank you developers for implementing what the billion dollar corporations could not in literally 1/10 of the time.
Sorry if I ranted I'm pissed and there's no way I'm going down to wallstreet lol I'm lazy.
Jason
Note: I also read that it could reach nearly 1 million devices a day by the end of Oct/Nov.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App

Trust me I understand your frustration! According to google ICS was supposed to be that game changing release but honestly marketing is what is stopping companies from unifying. A majority of people who get an Android device don't know what the hell to do with it, how it works, or in the most part don't care (or at least don't seem to understand the difference between froyo and GB) they just want a functioning
phone. Then comes ios, that's why it's so popular.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda premium

I do venture to say that android developers are hurting as well with having to unnecessarily cater to multiple versions of the same OS. I was under the impression that ICS was that as well and will be a step in that direction. Once again how long will that take to push out to consumers? Are we supposed to wait until then? Google just needs to grow some balls and steer the proverbial green bull by the horns before the amount of devices becomes the reason we dont run with the bulls anymore.

jasonk1229 said:
I do venture to say that android developers are hurting as well with having to unnecessarily cater to multiple versions of the same OS. I was under the impression that ICS was that as well and will be a step in that direction. Once again how long will that take to push out to consumers? Are we supposed to wait until then? Google just needs to grow some balls and steer the proverbial green bull by the horns before the amount of devices becomes the reason we dont run with the bulls anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quite frankly your frustration (and mine) is backed by the dev community; to atleast some extent. Although, I still believe google saw the bright green money tree right above their noses and since then, can not let go of the smell! In other words, there wont' be a solution in the near future.

Android has become more like Linux in terms of fragmentation!

diablo009 said:
Android has become more like Linux in terms of fragmentation!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't name to you all the releases that are out there

Yes I love my Infuse but Fragmentation really move my temper gauge over the top. Still loving the infuse 4g screen, but the apps almost all force close error, and my facebook app sometime does not notify me on the notifiction bar and so is textfree app, i am really getting frustrated even yahoo a very big company the video call is a mess, i am in the edge of going back to iPhone which is not my choice, but google make this on OS, stop fragmentation.

spirikitik said:
Yes I love my Infuse but Fragmentation really move my temper gauge over the top. Still loving the infuse 4g screen, but the apps almost all force close error, and my facebook app sometime does not notify me on the notifiction bar and so is textfree app, i am really getting frustrated even yahoo a very big company the video call is a mess, i am in the edge of going back to iPhone which is not my choice, but google make this on OS, stop fragmentation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you running a custom rom, kernel, radio, are you OC/UV?
Any and all of these things can and will give you instability. I had a cm7 theme that kept crashing the system on my backflip.
The only way to do away with MOST not all issues is to live in "the box".

Android fragmentation is a big problem.
You're kidding yourself if you think the Infuse will ever get an update to ICS.

MikeyMike01 said:
You're kidding yourself if you think the Infuse will ever get an update to ICS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol. By the ICS is out on a couple phones he would've switched to a different phone.

MikeyMike01 said:
Android fragmentation is a big problem.
You're kidding yourself if you think the Infuse will ever get an update to ICS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There comes devs who may port it (hopefully). Ics is supposed to get rid of the fragmentation, and maybegoogle has something up there sleeve to combine all phones and most get ics who knows. Google and Sammy have just hired cynagen (sorry bad speling) and other major devs. They may just help figure out this problem, where they are actually smart and put this into consideration.

I want my freakin Gingerbread! Stupid fragmentation! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Kevinr678 said:
I want my freakin Gingerbread! Stupid fragmentation! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really missing my old HTC phones right now. Hell, one official rom could be easily ported over to like six others with those phones. Samsung has fantastic hardware but HTC dev support is superior.
Sent from my Samsung Infuse

slapshot30 said:
Really missing my old HTC phones right now. Hell, one official rom could be easily ported over to like six others with those phones. Samsung has fantastic hardware but HTC dev support is superior.
Sent from my Samsung Infuse
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely agreed. Phone's that will never officially have things like Sense 3.5 have it, and the same with firmwares. I do love my Samsung though.

Ryanscool said:
There comes devs who may port it (hopefully). Ics is supposed to get rid of the fragmentation, and maybegoogle has something up there sleeve to combine all phones and most get ics who knows. Google and Sammy have just hired cynagen (sorry bad speling) and other major devs. They may just help figure out this problem, where they are actually smart and put this into consideration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Problem is that every phone has vendor-proprietary bits to handle specific hardware support that aren't portable. The Apache license of the Android userland stack makes this possible. Also the ability to have proprietary modules loaded by the kernel doesn't help - for example the FSR and RFS drivers in the Infuse. The same reason you'll likely never see ICS for the Infuse is the same reason you didn't see CM7 until Rogers Gingerbread dropped. (It existed, but it was in a barely usable state until the vendor-proprietary stuff from Rogers GB could get pulled in.)
The good news is that I think Google is forcing vendors to "play nicer" as far as the low-level vendor-proprietary code in order to make AOSP bringups easier. They enforced a LOT of standardization with Honeycomb - the question is can they keep that going with ICS without witholding source like with HC? I think that by exercising tighter control over Google Apps licensing they can.
The Galaxy S II is a hint of things to come - while it still has vendor-proprietary libraries in the userland stack, it has zero closed-source components in the kernel, unlike previous Samsungs.

Motivation and $.
my opinion only...but, phone carriers have no motivation* to update the o.s. of phones already sold.
Just a few random thoughts...
1. Limited $ to be made from you (the customer waiting for an upgrade)
....a. sale of the device is already made.
....b. buyer is already locked into a long-term contract.
2. they are a phone company not a software company...thus any software developers they might have are probably focused on future sales and testing.
3. they don't make money releasing updates to already sold phones.
4. support staff would have to be pretty good size.
I wonder if the phone providers keep software upgrade staff or do they contract that out??? say to the phone manufacture (i.e. samsung, htc)? I have no idea.
(I am assuming it's the phone carriers who are the primary cause of delays in releasing software updates...not necessarily the
* what's more important to them? Future repeat customers due to good service OR simply getting them locked into longterm service contracts? Obviously point 2.

I wish fragmentation was decreased to that of the IBM compatibe market. (Am I the only one that still calls them that?)
Sent from my SGH-I997 using Tapatalk

Interesting point I would have to say they contract the work out to upgrade versions. If they haven't already I wouldn't be surprised to see full teams being hired as android becomes more permanent.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App

Great post
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App

The debate continues on TechCrunch:
http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/27/charted-android-fragmentation/

Ice cream sandwich ( ICS) might be worst for android?

I just read this article, a good eye opener for those craving for ICS
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2394929,00.asp
Google needs to look to Microsoft as an example of how to get updates right. Compared to the grinding misery of the Android non-update schedule, Microsoft's transition from Windows Phone 7 to Mango is going pretty smoothly.
Like Google, Microsoft has to deal with different OEMs and get its software approved by carriers. Like Google, Microsoft has to deal with different form factors—phones with physical keyboards and without, for instance.
Yes, Apple gets it right too, but that's a little boring; Apple has only one OEM (itself) and a handful of models, so it's much easier to push out updates to iPhones and iPads.
Earlier this year, Google and its OEMs formed a consortium to pledge to deliver prompt updates, but absolutely zero concrete work has come out of that group. Every single U.S. Windows Phone will update to Mango within weeks. Two-year-old iPhones can get iOS 5. But owners of Android phones and tablets just a few months old have no clue when, or whether their gadgets will get Ice Cream Sandwich (or for that matter, sometimes still even Gingerbread.)
Microsoft keeps its Windows Phone line down to one screen resolution and chipset, and doesn't allow manufacturers to skin the OS. I don't want to see Google take on the first requirement, as competition between chip manufacturers has been a major force driving Android's advances. But even if one chipset at a time got Android updates, it would still be a major step forward.
If manufacturer skins are really stopping updates, it may finally be time for Google to find a way to punish OEMs that can't keep up with the pace of change. Google likes to trumpet its openy-ness, but the company has always blessed and punished OEMs by giving or withholding the Android Market and Gmail apps that are necessary to have a decent Android device. Google needs to set a time limit for OEMs to implement changes.
Ice Cream Sandwich looks great. So when can we get it, how can we find apps for it, and how can app developers address the widest variety of Android devices easily? That's what Google needs to answer clearly and concisely.
and it made me think alot.
I'm an android fan, but i feel this author's opinion is quite true.
whats the point of having a good and new OS but its just available on a over priced nexus phone?
android updates are slow (i mean around 6 months or probably never). and silly manufacturers are further delaying it by their custom UI. This is just sad sad news for android.
i better stop reading news about ICS, just to make myself less miserable.
in my country, malaysia, the sgs2 is still at 2.3.3. which is another reason to forget about the ICS.

I agree, that's probably the biggest stumbling block of Android. When Apple fanboys say, "When Apple releases iOS 5, most iPhones (3GS onwards) can join in the party immediately. With Android, you have to wait and you might not even get the update at all", I have no response to that, because they are right.
One thing though, Microsoft controls the hardware specs of WP7 phones very closely. Sure there's differences here and there, but not as far reaching as a Galaxy 3 vs a Galaxy S2.

Well, heres my opinion about this subject:
No, it will not make things worst, i have been using android since donut with an HTC Magic, from which i had tried 2.1 and 2.2. Never resourcing from HTC's official releases.
I'll put it simple, for someone who needs a smartphone, almost every verion of android will do, you get to manage emails on the go, music, photos, market+apps, you get the point.
Now for someone that takes "what version of android i'm running" into consideration, there are solutions to run the latest. Me for example, i do take it into consideration, and i'm running 2.3.5 on a LG2X which only has 2.2 officially.
If this was real reality, what about X86 OS's? i mean, win3.1, win95, win98, win98ME, win2K, winXP, winVISTA, win7 and now win8... And im only talking about microsoft.
Theres no such thing has fragmentation. As for the development problems regarding which target android version will "I" develop to. Cmon, theres good coding or bad coding. OFC theres some API's that are only available since version X of the android version, but still, good coding would prevent the use of this API even if it means having less functionality.
I believe android is in the right track, ICS looks to have some nice improvements, although the main development i saw was design ("Make me awesome"), i believe there has been some improvements regarding stability+smoothness+usability.
Next stop is: "Google needs to look to Microsoft as an example of how to get updates right." Wait a second, google has made the most successful mobile OS and it needs to look to Microsoft for *whatever*?
"Yes, Apple gets it right too" No! if in Sascha's opinion Fragmentation is a problem, Apple is having the same issue, but it is coming later than android, mainly due to the 23454345672384 OEM's android has versus the 1 OEM Apple has! I mean, 1 oem, 1 OS = iPhone, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPod Touch Xgen, iPad, iPad 2.. FFS! fragmentation? a single oem has made more devices than most android OEM's has! (not true, but quite)
[EDIT] Sorry im berserking.
"Microsoft keeps its Windows Phone line down to one screen resolution and chipset" if this was done in the Android habitat, there would be no sense in making different versions, varying prices, and so on. Fragmentation is good in some aspects, one of them being the different prices devices can get.
As for the version and updates problem, how about attacking the OEM's itself instead of Google? Since google is the main "victim" of this article, google has made all it can do to get it "corrected" (if this is a problem) and it even does not own the OEM's companies! All phones launched by google have had some nice updates, keeping it with the most recent OS all the time. (Yes i'm talking about the nexus lineup, Nexus One is 2 years old, so i guess it will not get ICS, still iphone 2G will not get iOS 5 neither.)
[EDIT2] Now i'm haywire.
Just take a look at the article comments, the writer ends up having no arguments. FFS He's calling WP7 an example for updates! saying that the OS provider has the obligation the get OEM's in line...NO! thats the good thing about Android, it is free, free to use, and free to transform. Every OEM is responsible for what they do with the devices they sell, and the OS they ship it with.
Thats like saying that my Dinossaur pc doesn't run windows 7 and call it Microsoft's fault, because my PC only have 96MB of Ram! Isn't that almost Apple-fanboy talk? The os provider must develop the HW for it to run properly.

Logi_Ca1 said:
When Apple fanboys say, "When Apple releases iOS 5, most iPhones (3GS onwards) can join in the party immediately. With Android, you have to wait and you might not even get the update at all", I have no response to that, because they are right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is true, except for one thing. There is a response.
If you want iOS, you have the choice of black or white. If you want Android then you have the choice of hundreds of different devices. It's a trade-off that I am more than happy with. I prefer choice over regular updates, especially when the OS is already good enough anyway.

Usually you get leaked firmwares before official release anyway. So I don't see the issue.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium

drelite08 said:
Usually you get leaked firmwares before official release anyway. So I don't see the issue.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think that's a valid point since only a small minority of Android users know about xda and the fact that you can flash ROMs. Every iPhone user in the world will know about OTA updates.

Sorry but there's no apple fanboy like Joshua Toposlky, he is the only one in the world (sarcasm =P) that can see the bright side of both sides of the war.
Archer said:
I don't think that's a valid point since only a small minority of Android users know about xda and the fact that you can flash ROMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats why i did say that for a smartphone user, every android version will sufice.
Archer said:
Every iPhone user in the world will know about OTA updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is almost not noticeable in the android environment because of the OEM's, not google's fault
[EDIT] OMFG! Now this is stupid, this is SO STUPID! Check this out, he makes a table of the new features that the new iOS can do, an compares it to other OS's... so lets start:
Location Based Reminders: Only iOS
Quick Camera Acess: iOS and WP7
Advanced Photo Editing tools: Only iOS
Advanced Voice Commands: Only iOS
My answer to this is: I am not going to open another URL coming from PCmag

The way Android works is that Google do not have that much control over it after the OS is designed, it gets open-sourced then it is down to each individual OEM to build a rom and get their carrier partners to approve it.
Google have deliberately chosen to not do it the more formal way as it will defeat the entire original purpose that android had.
Obviously there is more complicated steps in the process when it comes to the licencing of Gapps....
However google and the other major partners have expressed their wish to reduce fragmentation and move to ICS as soon as possible, but that article was right in that we have not been given any strict words. However any phone currently running android 2.3 and is still getting worked on (i.e. not EOL) should receive an ICS update. I know that samsung are working on very quick timetables and the SGS2 rom should be out very quickly, but based on the past experience companies like HTC may take a very long time.
in WP7 Microsoft give a rom to the OEMS to do very minor tweaks, this is then approved and released.

I think what people are missing
Here guys is the fact that android os is the only open source os out of three three majors!
This means that u don't really need the oems to have latest up to date os version. As we can c clearly in the case of cynogenmod project. Moreover, the android build it's reputation on being the most comprehensive os with most capabilities to consume the most of the hardware. This is a big plus for everybody.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

Ray1 said:
in my country, malaysia, the sgs2 is still at 2.3.3. which is another reason to forget about the ICS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have just read this now, and i must say WTF? what you mean? you want 2.3.7? You have officially the latest released Android version, and you call it "still"?

svceon said:
I have just read this now, and i must say WTF? what you mean? you want 2.3.7? You have officially the latest released Android version, and you call it "still"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry i offended you. Please dont get upset.
but the upgrading firmware or version is very frustrating.
i saw in youtube and other tech website that the latest gingerbread is 2.3.5,
2.3.4 suppose to have the video call in google talk
2.3.5 suppose to have better battery life.
(i hope i'm not mistaken)
dont you feel its sad? i spend a big BIG sum of money to buy this phone (RM2099), and naturally i expect it will have good support. OTA updates should be ideal, KIES is acceptable as well, but 2.3.5 is no where to be seen even on KIES.

Ray1 said:
I'm sorry i offended you. Please dont get upset.
but the upgrading firmware or version is very frustrating.
i saw in youtube and other tech website that the latest gingerbread is 2.3.5,
2.3.4 suppose to have the video call in google talk
2.3.5 suppose to have better battery life.
(i hope i'm not mistaken)
dont you feel its sad? i spend a big BIG sum of money to buy this phone (RM2099), and naturally i expect it will have good support. OTA updates should be ideal, KIES is acceptable as well, but 2.3.5 is no where to be seen even on KIES.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ray1, i'm not upset, don't get me wrong =P i just thought you were saying that you wanted ICS now, and that you were frustraded that you didn't had. i'm only upset by PCMAG by it's acumulated stupidity.
As for the updates, there are a lot of 2.3.4/5 roms in the SGSII development sub-forum, why dont you try to flash one?
Another thing about firmware and OEM's updates:
When i buy a car, i dont expect it to be upgraded when the next generation of engines are released. When i buy a car i bought it because i needed it or i wanted it as it was being sold.

If you want the latest hardware in your phones, then don't expect to have the latest software.

linkin85 said:
If you want the latest hardware in your phones, then don't expect to have the latest software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This doesn't make a lot of sense

Ray1 said:
I'm sorry i offended you. Please dont get upset.
but the upgrading firmware or version is very frustrating.
i saw in youtube and other tech website that the latest gingerbread is 2.3.5,
2.3.4 suppose to have the video call in google talk
2.3.5 suppose to have better battery life.
(i hope i'm not mistaken)
dont you feel its sad? i spend a big BIG sum of money to buy this phone (RM2099), and naturally i expect it will have good support. OTA updates should be ideal, KIES is acceptable as well, but 2.3.5 is no where to be seen even on KIES.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no Google talk video call in 2.3.4 nor 2.3.5..

the fact that the author wrote "Google needs to look to Microsoft as an example of how to get updates right" made him lose any ounce of credibility that he had (if he had any to begin with.)
they released WP 7 without half of the proven needs on a smartphone (eg. cut and paste), released an "update" which was basically a primer for your phone to be able to OTA update when the new "patch" was released. and it didn't even adress the issues that had people *****ing about the phone. Mango was promised to be released last year, and it's already october 2011. I got rid of my windows phone within 3 months of buying on.
so what if apple releases iOS 5 to all iphone users? half of them probably doesn't even know what's on the new OS. the other half are still marvelling over siri as some technological breakthrough. it has got to be the most boring OS i've seen. everyone holding an iOS phone/tablet/ipod looks the same as the other person holding it. oh great, you can change the wallpaper...whoopdiedoo...and buy a 200 dollar case for it! wowie.
i was a loyal windows mobile user for many many years, having used them since O2 still manufactured awesome products. I loved it for how much I could customize it to suit how I'd like it to be. I'm not paying 1000 bucks and have the company tell me how I should want it to look. I'm sorry, but a homescreen with 16 icons on it just doesn't look appealing to me. I have been blown away by what the android OS can do.
how ICS release can be bad for android users baffles me. I bet the author was wetting himself when apple launched the white iphone.

This ''issue'' can be avoided by installing CM7. This way your phone is like a nexus and has the latest updates.

Umm this isn't really google's fault by any means; whether or not ICS comes to our devices is up to the manufacturers, and it's is up to us as consumers to let them know that we don't want a customized UI, but standard android instead.
Vote with your wallets and send manufacturers complaint letters and you shall have what you wish for. Just look at the locked boot loaders issue as an example of what can be done when enough people complain and commit to a cause.

1) don't rely on Official Roms all the time, plenty of leaks for 2.3.4 and 2.3.5 have surfaced
2) Just because you are not yet on 2.3.4 doesn't mean you won't get ICS, you don't have to go up every single OS step in order...

Again Android liberty. You can pick the OEM. If you want the fastest update buy a nexus. Slower OEMs will sell lesser product in the future. And I didn't get the idea of the article. Is limiting the OSs with resolution and chips a good thing? If so what are we doing here?
Sent from my GT-I9100

Alternate world without Android

Say that android was never released (or discontinued after initial release as a failure)
What do you think would be
(*) Outcome of the mobile world?
(*) what phone you'd be using?
I think, if Android ceased to exist, ill still be on old Windows Mobile.
Microsoft wouldnt have felt to need to update to WP7 as they had no need to compete with anyone apart from apple.
So as a result WP7 ceases to exist
I think apple would not have introduced multitasking or the fancy new features in their iPhones. They have no one to compete with
I don't think dual core would be high end (1ghz would be high end even in 2012, and would be ground breaking news)
I don't think apple will have released an ipad. They wouldnt need to compete.
I think I would still be using a WM phone if android didn't exist, and have no tablet...
HTC would still be a unknown company that no one has heard of, and they produce phones for carriers
XDA site wont be as popular or well known as now.
The mobile world would still be a few steps behind
More to come ..
List what you think!
-------------------------------
Sent from my HTC Desire S

PalmOS will still be dominating the market strong
Apple will have gone bankrupt, as Microsoft couldn't afford to buy out Apple's doomed stock, due Microsoft own low sales of Windows CE v10.1
PalmOS would have been v15.6 by now with new improved GUI and Eye pupil control to select & run Apps from the phone, with voice dictation a voice command perfected even for people with heavy accent
while still keeping the good old fashioned pen, for those that likes to hand write on the screen as before
PalmOS has become open source, and old Apps are still backward compatible with the latest PalmOS
making the life of Doctors and tons of other professional easier without having to wait for new Apps releases to work on the new OS

Without Android I think Apple would be very dominant in the cell phone market.
I don't think there would be many (or nearly as many) lawsuits being thrown around b/c Apple wouldn't feel threatened.
I don't think the iPhone would really be changed as much though. Apple has a very strong almost cult following that will shell out the money every year for a new device so I don't think they really need to succumb to the trends of the market. If anything I agree they wouldn't have multitasking and probably no dual core processor.
Sadly I'd probably own an iPhone

What would happen if no one ever created bread?!

ihellion said:
What would happen if no one ever created bread?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can haz no sammiches?

ihellion said:
What would happen if no one ever created bread?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plenty of cultures don't make use of bread.
If there was no Android, I'd probably be using an iPhone.

Etrick said:
I can haz no sammiches?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No PB&J, the humanities!
bleach168 said:
Plenty of cultures don't make use of bread.
If there was no Android, I'd probably be using an iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plenty of cultures don't have power, I think we'd be OK, and people would have innovated another type of smart phone OS. I think a better question is "What has Android done to change the market, and maybe the world?"

Windows Phone would be around but be different in Name/Look... iOS wouldn't be as rushed to add MMS and so on.. SO it would look the same (surprise surprise) but with some missing features. Windows Mobile OS would probably continue the look of 6.5 with overall changes to compete with iOS...
Overall Android caused a lot of thinking for both Apple and Microsoft ... If only we can see into a world like that... Now im curious

The iPhone can't be on the top forever, can it?

It seems that ever since January of 2007, when Apple revealed the rumored iPhone that they have been on top of the mobile game. Even before the phone was even for sale, it literally became the most hyped device in the world. Well its been over 5 years and Apple continues to control the mobile tech game.
But this can't last forever can it? Let's think about the mass popularity of Blackberrys and Sidekicks. Blackberry is a dying brand and sidekick's aren't even relavent in 2012.
Check out this article that explains a few new technologies in development as well as some proposed concepts that can make Apple the old thing.
"The iPhone was a life-changing device for many. Nobody can deny Apple’s ingenuity. But just like Apple wiped out the competition in 2007, any manufacturer could harness an advanced technology that could make the iPhone a thing of the past."
[Article] : http://brobuffet.com/2012/07/13/the-next-tech-takeover/
Tell me your opinion
Do you believe the Apple iPhone will continue to be the most popular device? Or will something eventually come along in 5-10 years and just take over the market?
I think this is a big question because many of us speak of how Apple will eventually have the iPhone 10 but we never consider the competition.

I personally feel that apple has its days numbered with the following that certain android based phones are gathering. HTC and Samsung alike are well on their ways to EVENTUALLY topple apple.
I give it three years, apple wont be on top, but will still be relevant. Unless apple changes the game a bit, 10 years and we may be saying "apple who?" There's only so many times you can sell a different variation of a general idea.
Just my opinion
Sent from my LG-MS690 using xda premium

People choose iPhone due to awesome user experience having no performance glitch. Project Butter brings that to Jelly Bean. So, I think.. Android is going to take crown this time.
What I like most: Android users have big choice of hardware specs. If you purchase any digital content from Play Store (or, Amazon App Store), you can use them on large no. of devices which is not true with iTunes case!

SachinShekhar said:
People choose iPhone due to awesome user experience having no performance glitch. Project Butter brings that to Jelly Bean. So, I think.. Android is going to take crown this time.
What I like most: Android users have big choice of hardware specs. If you purchase any digital content from Play Store (or, Amazon App Store), you can use them on large no. of devices which is not true with iTunes case!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to mention the amount of customization you have with an android device. If you're rooted, customization is endless.
Sent from my LG-MS690 using xda premium

I have but one statement to add to this:
If HTC and Samsung wasn't doing so well in the smartphone market, why does Apple keep trying to sue them for anything they can?
Hell, even the Gooapple v5, although a Chinese knockoff, is still a better phone to me just because it runs Android and not iOS.
Say or think what you may, but android should be able to corner the market inside of 12-18 months based on the amount of users alone. No more desktops, no more laptops, and net books with touchscreens that run Android 3.2 for those that want a keyboard...
The future is in your hands, brandish it like a weapon and show it off to every iPhone user you know.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app

fyi , Android owns over 50% of the world market for the last 2 years at least. Its now around 61% and only 29% for Apple.

I just came from an iPhone 4 to an HTC one x as my first Android device. Just about everyone I actually know that's closely related to me has an iPhone as well.
One thing I've noticed about them is that they don't really seem to care what the latest features of Android are compared to the iPhone. Even when I gloat about what my phone can do compared to their's they just don't seem quite as convinced or impressed by it.
Their only argument for staying with the iPhone is the app store, which I must agree is quite impressive. The also seem to have a misconception that Android is hard to navigate or use compared to iPhone. to some degree it is true, but I wouldn't say it's hard, its just not as user friendly as ios.
Apple will probably retain a lead until they mess up big time with their phone. I feel that moment is coming soon. The os look and feel is extremely outdated in my opinion. They need a new layout for their home screen and something different to keep it fresh.
Also I would like to mention from a personal experience that iPhone is great out the box whereas Android isn't good until you root and throw some great roms on it.
I'm tired of typing on my phone now.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

No, they won't. Samsung outsold Apple in Q1 this year. It will happen again. Instead of innovating Apple seems content to litigate and steal, meaning that they aren't bringing anything fresh to the table. People will eventually get tired of shelling out money for new iPhones with almost no appreciable differences. What will the next iPhone offer? A slightly larger screen, UI upgrades stolen wholesale from Android, maps purchased from elsewhere, and most likely 4G. Nothing cutting edge and nothing that isn't already offered in a plethora of forms in other devices.
Granted, it will take some people time to break away, especially those heavily invested in iOS apps, but it will happen. If all Google offered from its Nexus line were the same phone year after year with only minor changes how many Android users would see any need to continually upgrade? If Android users had no choice but to buy a new device every two years so that it could actually function on the newest OS how many of us would continue to support them? Androids weak point has been manufacturers and carriers not getting the new Android versions out to devices, but as devs have made clear the hardware itself is plenty capable of utilizing whatever Google brings us. That's something that iOS can't claim. Heck, even a number of newer iDevices had major issues with iOS 5. Dinosaurs will die and Apple is sounding its own dirge by refusing to stay competitive and treating its customers like idiots.

enviii said:
Also I would like to mention from a personal experience that iPhone is great out the box whereas Android isn't good until you root and throw some great roms on it.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't quite say so.
Android can run widgets, live wallpaper, custom lockscreens, different launchers, change default apps like MMS/SMS, browser, dialer, camera, etc., out of the box no rooting required.
iOS needs to be jailbroken for those features. And they still don't have widgets, except for those "widgets" in the notification pulldown (which was a complete copy of Android 1.5).
The iPhone 5 will supposedly have a 4 inch screen. The original galaxy S phones from 2010 had 4 inch screens, and the OG Droid from 2009 had a 3.7 inch screen which is bigger than the current iPhone (4S).
Apple will fall soon. A couple of years give or take
Sent from my MB508 using xda premium

MissionImprobable said:
No, they won't. Samsung outsold Apple in Q1 this year. It will happen again. Instead of innovating Apple seems content to litigate and steal, meaning that they aren't bringing anything fresh to the table. People will eventually get tired of shelling out money for new iPhones with almost no appreciable differences. What will the next iPhone offer? A slightly larger screen, UI upgrades stolen wholesale from Android, maps purchased from elsewhere, and most likely 4G. Nothing cutting edge and nothing that isn't already offered in a plethora of forms in other devices.
Granted, it will take some people time to break away, especially those heavily invested in iOS apps, but it will happen. If all Google offered from its Nexus line were the same phone year after year with only minor changes how many Android users would see any need to continually upgrade? If Android users had no choice but to buy a new device every two years so that it could actually function on the newest OS how many of us would continue to support them? Androids weak point has been manufacturers and carriers not getting the new Android versions out to devices, but as devs have made clear the hardware itself is plenty capable of utilizing whatever Google brings us. That's something that iOS can't claim. Heck, even a number of newer iDevices had major issues with iOS 5. Dinosaurs will die and Apple is sounding its own dirge by refusing to stay competitive and treating its customers like idiots.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. Androids strength is also a weakness. Variety and choice comes with a price. Apple's sole control over their device and OS allows them to easily roll out updates, whereas with Android, Google, in a way, is at the mercy of manufacturers and carries. Or perhaps it's the other way around?
So what if ICS and JB take while to get official support. Open source development takes care of that problem. In fact, I think it's safe to say that user/ community made ROMs are probably better than official releases.

my girlfriends sister's boyfriend has an Iphone, and he said he wants to get the new one. Now my girlfriends sister wants to get an Iphone also. Listen to the reasons behind their wants.
boyfriend - I want the new Iphone because I can easily sync my music from itunes
girlfriends sister - I want the new Iphone just because (we all know its because her boyfriend has one LOL)
is this really what apple has going for them? easy sync of music, same OS on every device, little bit bigger screen and a new maps app because they're mad at google for "stealing" from them? apple is a garbage company that over-prices everything and gives their customers a piece of **** in a box.
oh get this LOL also my girlfriends sister has had an IMac laptop or whatever you call it for a couple of years now, 2 times she had to change the hard drive. that is hella sad considering the hard drive is one and only piece of permanent storage pieces in a computer.

enviii said:
Their only argument for staying with the iPhone is the app store, which I must agree is quite impressive. The also seem to have a misconception that Android is hard to navigate or use compared to iPhone. to some degree it is true, but I wouldn't say it's hard, its just not as user friendly as ios.
p
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree. If someone can't figure out how to connect to wifi with an android phone, they're not going to magically figure it out if you hand them an iPhone. The process is the exact same no matter which platform you are on. I guess most people haven't tried ICS, because it is just as easy to use as any other OS.
In fact, in a few ways, Android is more user friendly. For example, making a ringtone from an mp3 is fairly easy on Android. Doing the same in iOS or WP7 is a nightmare. Managing music is easier if you know how to drag and drop into folders. Once they start putting NFC chips in bluetooth devices, pairing will be super easy for Android too.

iPhone screen size = 3.5" = $600
Android equivalents in terms of screen size:
Galaxy Y = 3.0" = <$30
LG Optimus Me = 2.8" = <$10
Lenovo A60 = 3.5" = <$30
See. ALL of the iPhones android equivalents are LOW END phones! They are all GB/FroYo! In terms of screen size, Apple needs to step up and release a 4.3" iPhone ASAP.

OptimusLove said:
iPhone screen size = 3.5" = $600
Android equivalents in terms of screen size:
Galaxy Y = 3.0" = <$30
LG Optimus Me = 2.8" = <$10
Lenovo A60 = 3.5" = <$30
See. ALL of the iPhones android equivalents are LOW END phones! They are all GB/FroYo! In terms of screen size, Apple needs to step up and release a 4.3" iPhone ASAP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung makes the panels for the iPhone... I would love to see apple go to another vendor, increase screen size and start selling those phones, just so Samsung can sue them for patent infringement due to screen size and technology... that would be the lol of the year!
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app

what if iPhone gets Android, can someone port it.....lolz..

People already have booted Android on iPhones. Android is open for anyone who wishes to develop and use it.

MissionImprobable said:
People already have booted Android on iPhones. Android is open for anyone who wishes to develop and use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true, and proof can be found in the case of all the Gooapple units sold. Its essentially the same as an iPhone with the exception of the processor AFAIK...
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app

I also see the iPhone lagging behind its competition in the future. What game changers did Apple introduce to the iPhone
in the last years? FaceTime? lol
They can't come up with something special every time they release a new one. They are also very limited with the way they can
change the whole thing. It's no coincidence that they stuck with the same screen size for so long. If you make it bigger it's not
really "the iPhone" anymore. I think they are very careful with making such drastic changes which, as I said, limits their innovation.

MissionImprobable said:
People already have booted Android on iPhones. Android is open for anyone who wishes to develop and use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah Android is open for anyone, but this doesn't grants officially update's for all smartphone!

misbah711 said:
what if iPhone gets Android, can someone port it.....lolz..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://code.google.com/p/iphodroid/