Database Info

No more custom ROMs on HTC devices: HTC will secure the bootloader for future phones.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/24/htc-locks-down-incredible-s-against-custom-roms-too-starts-a-fi/
http://tweakers.net/nieuws/73423/htc-beveiligt-bootloader-nieuwe-android-toestellen.html
Why???
You have just been added next to Sony on my "Don't buy"-list.
Which phone will be the next HD2? LG?
***Update***:
Sony-Ericsson makes a tool to load custom roms onto their devices (http://tweakers.net/nieuws/73521/so...t-custom-roms-op-android-phones-mogelijk.html)
This is good news!

How much more secured is this than the traditional S-ON/S-OFF? I guess I don't really understand to what extent this new security changes over the old.
Also, it's already cracked on the Thunderbolt so likey can be repeated on the Incredible S. If it's crackable, isn't that all that matters?

This was an interesting argument, to me: NOT that the phones aren't still crackable, but rather that HTC is giving into intimidation by Verizon.. and by doing so, it's signaling that they will bow down to carriers, yet even moreso, over end users who BUY THEIR PHONES and are their actual customers.
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You may not agree, but the "rebel" in me likes that argument at least....
When you combine this with HTC America's not honoring warranties, they are not making the best moves given their fractional market share and the massive competition getting stronger and stronger from Motorola and Samsung every day ---- though I love HTC's phones and have never cheated on them once!
But keep in mind HTC *owned* the entire turf of touchscreen devices during the mighty reign of Windows Mobile... Now? Today? They are practically an asterisk. And Motorola? They were gonners. People thought there were out of the game having fallen so far behind after nothing new since the RAZR. Then the new CEO came in, targeted Android as his platform for choice, they targeted the DROID as their re-entry vehicle, and they slammed into the touchscreen market and overtook HTC like a steamroller.
When you are playing on THAT kind of playing field, you're going to go messing with your most loyal customer base -- and kiss ass with a carrier? I think HTC is blundering all over the place -- all the while they continue to make fantastic phones. But fact remains, they cannot afford to even SIGHTLY ANNOY a loyal customer these days. Once someone goes Samsung or Motorola, I don't see a big love affair where they're going to comer back to HTC. So, they better watch it, from where I sit. It's not just as simple a matter as "but we can crack anything". That's missing the point entirely.

Is HTC dual mode? Are they just doing it in the US or all over. That's why I've never liked Verizon. Started years ago over ringtones and BitPim.

What gives that person the impression that Verizon had anything to do with it? They're using the same security in the Incredible S, which from the specs on HTC's website, is a GSM phone so if this additional layer of security were a specific demand from VZW, there'd be no reason to add it to the Incredible S.
I doubt increasing security will hurt HTC sales at all. I'm thinking the majority of HTC phone users do NOT root their phones or hack them. Sure, XDA members do, but the average Joe? I don't think so. The percentage of people who buy HTC just because it's hackable is probably a pretty miniscule amount compared to the big picture.
I could be wrong, but I think the more likely answer for increasing security is to reduce warranty claims and support calls from would-be phone hackers accidentally bricking them.

GnatGoSplat said:
I could be wrong, but I think the more likely answer for increasing security is to reduce warranty claims and support calls from would-be phone hackers accidentally bricking them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with this. Go to any Android phone dev section and you see tons of people returning phones for replacement because they goof up flashing it.

I didn't realize this was posted already, I had just posted this in another section, I had said a week ago that it might be the end of an era with HTC locking down their phones, this sucks.
Sent from my Incredible with the XDA Premium App.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is just pressure from the carriers rather than HTC itself.
Regardless, i am disappoint!

I hope they dont do this, we need customization!

it does suck, theyll be another motorola now, except sense still owns blur lol

No no no no no. :'( this sucks. I love htc and the OPENNESS of android. Why I DIDN'T go with Motorola for an android device.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

we need to apeal to htc to please not do this!!

GnatGoSplat said:
What gives that person the impression that Verizon had anything to do with it? They're using the same security in the Incredible S...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
Even if HTC were to start locking the bootloader at the behest of one particular network (and frankly, I find the notion that any one network would have enough clout to try and impose such measures questionable, to say the least), there'd be no reason for HTC to do this to all their handsets.
This is a decision HTC have made themselves.
GnatGoSplat said:
I doubt increasing security will hurt HTC sales at all. I'm thinking the majority of HTC phone users do NOT root their phones or hack them. Sure, XDA members do, but the average Joe? I don't think so. The percentage of people who buy HTC just because it's hackable is probably a pretty miniscule amount compared to the big picture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also true - XDA may be big but it doesn't compare to the number of phones being sold.
Heck, there are more than 3 times as many Galaxy S handsets have been sold as XDA-devs' entire membership and that's just one of a miscellany of handsets this place caters for.

man i hope somebody talks some sense into them

This is bonkers what are they doing this for?

GnatGoSplat said:
How much more secured is this than the traditional S-ON/S-OFF? I guess I don't really understand to what extent this new security changes over the old.
Also, it's already cracked on the Thunderbolt so likey can be repeated on the Incredible S. If it's crackable, isn't that all that matters?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I don't know for sure, but when you hook up you phone to your computer and flash it, your computer and phone will communicate with each other, and the computer will tell the phone what the new rom will be. Now, the people here at xda only have to figure out how to tell the phone what the new rom is.
But with this new security, not only do will we have to figure out how to tell it, we also have to answer the phones question to the computer, what the password is to flash it. This password is only known to HTC.

Step666 said:
Heck, there are more than 3 times as many Galaxy S handsets have been sold as XDA-devs' entire membership and that's just one of a miscellany of handsets this place caters for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking the same thing. The new devices with be unlocked and made available to the people who'll use them.

If HTC locked the phones like Motorola does, then there will be no further HTC gadgets for me.
I didn't buy Motorola because of the same reason.

Every time they make a "secure lock" it takes all of a week to open and rewrite
IF they did make it uncrackable, according to the Supreme court decision it would violate ownership rights.
This is phase and as such, will pass

oka1 said:
IF they did make it uncrackable, according to the Supreme court decision it would violate ownership rights.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you need to re-read that.
The Supreme Court said it wasn't illegal to hack/tweak/modify software such as rooting/jail-breaking but that doesn't magically give you a right to do so.
If end-users have the right to modify their handsets, how do Motorola get away with their encrypted bootloader?

Does this bother any other one s owners?

http://mobile.theverge.com/2012/7/16/3162319/android-jelly-bean-htc-hd2-hack
Granted the hd2 has been around for a long time and has an established base, the one s is a flagship device with great specs and seems like the developer base just isn't there. Why is that?

I actually think that's pretty damn awesome that they're able to do that. We need those devs on here

I don't disagree that its great there is continued development for the hd2, but the one s is in every way a much more capable device yet lacks a jb port that can even boot at this point. Chalk it up to the newness of the hardware and lack of experienced developers? Or is there not a lot of interest in this device?
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda app-developers app

It bothers me a lot. I keep saying that the community for this phone sucks but everyone just flames the hell out of me when I say that.
I mean this phone is full of flaws to begin with. Then it doesn't have the community to develop some quality roms for it. And all the tech sites are just blogging about the One X and neglecting the One S. So it doesn't attract any new people at all. Yet the One S is just as flagship as the One X. I believe that the S4 is still the best chip on the market right now.

Bohemus said:
I don't disagree that its great there is continued development for the hd2, but the one s is in every way a much more capable device yet lacks a jb port that can even boot at this point. Chalk it up to the newness of the hardware and lack of experienced developers? Or is there not a lot of interest in this device?
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The One S got overshadowed by the One X and then the Gal S 3. So simply put -- NO, there's not a lot of interest in the device. It's a shame because it truly is a great device, and is fast as hell. Unfortunately that's just how things so sometimes in the world of Android devices.
That being said, our dev community is by no means tiny. It's just smaller than the more popular devices like the HD2, and all the Nexus line. There's a lot of factors that play into the size of the dev community, such as specs, how hard/easy it is to unlock and root, kernel sources being released (this def hurt the One S for a while), manufacturer support, etc.

wilcoholic said:
It bothers me a lot. I keep saying that the community for this phone sucks but everyone just flames the hell out of me when I say that.
I mean this phone is full of flaws to begin with. Then it doesn't have the community to develop some quality roms for it. And all the tech sites are just blogging about the One X and neglecting the One S. So it doesn't attract any new people at all. Yet the One S is just as flagship as the One X. I believe that the S4 is still the best chip on the market right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You get flamed, because even though the community lacks. You cannot take ANYTHING away from the dev's who have put time into making quality Rom's for the community. The word "sucks" brings down everyone who has put in work.
When i first got my Mytouch 4g Slide. There was 2 Rom's for atleast a month. Maybe 3 roms by 2 months. Be happy for what we have. Not for what we don't have.. if the community "sucks" so bad. Pick up a book and learn to cook us up some Rom's. Until then don't bring the dev's down because you're mad there isn't 15 roms to pick from..
S4 is the best IMO right now. Eventually things will kick up. Once the phone gets some time under it's belt. TMO will start giving them out at discounted prices. That's when this phone will pick up..
By all means don't take this as a "flame" because it's not. Just a friendly reminder that we do have good dev's. And they do deserve respect.
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

Easy, sell the ONE S, buy a HD2.
Problem Solved

solracarevir said:
Easy, sell the ONE S, buy a HD2.
Problem Solved
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And then comes the useless comments
Sent from my HTC One S using xda premium

nickmv said:
The One S got overshadowed by the One X and then the Gal S 3. So simply put -- NO, there's not a lot of interest in the device. It's a shame because it truly is a great device, and is fast as hell. Unfortunately that's just how things so sometimes in the world of Android devices.
That being said, our dev community is by no means tiny. It's just smaller than the more popular devices like the HD2, and all the Nexus line. There's a lot of factors that play into the size of the dev community, such as specs, how hard/easy it is to unlock and root, kernel sources being released (this def hurt the One S for a while), manufacturer support, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's T-Mobile in general. I don't think a lot of developers are on t-mobile because we aren't known for getting the best phones.

c19932 said:
And then comes the useless comments
Sent from my HTC One S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think Blaming and Bashing is more useless.
I mean, You can't compare the size and the Quality of the HD2 community with the ONE S community.
Once google releases a OS that didn't came preloaded with our phone we should not be whining about why X phone (which is inferior than mine) already have that OS and we don't.
We will get JB someday, thanks to the developer community. As I said earlier, if you cant wait to have JB don't complain, learn to build JB from source and do it yourself or buy a HD2 (which by the looks of it, they already have JB)

Hd2 is from t mobile and it's a great phone
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda app-developers app

And so is the HTC Sensation, which have a great developer community. If I don't remember wrong it was one of the first devices to receive ICS on late december.
Developers follow devices, I mean, some of them Do care about carriers, but if the device is good, developers will look for it.

Both phones
solracarevir said:
Easy, sell the ONE S, buy a HD2.
Problem Solved
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have both phones. Loved, loved, absolutely loved the support for the HD2. But by no means was there always some HUGE selection. It took a lot of patience to hold out for some of the ROMs I knew were coming. I think the development for this phone will pick up.

solracarevir said:
And so is the HTC Sensation, which have a great developer community. If I don't remember wrong it was one of the first devices to receive ICS on late december.
Developers follow devices, I mean, some of them Do care about carriers, but if the device is good, developers will look for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Speaking of the sensation cm just posted this image on g+ hopefully this means something is on the horizon for us.
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I'm pretty sure we'll get 4.1. Even the Blaze 4G is getting ICS.

Everything is ported to the hd2. It's the swiss army knife of phones. You want windows, android, meego? Boom! It's great just watching it unfold! Going to flash jb as soon as theirs a solid rom. Don't forget the hd2 has paid its dues from booting from sd and duel booting, etc. It's been a long grueling 3 years. The hos is still in its infancy.
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda premium

jacewt said:
I think it's T-Mobile in general. I don't think a lot of developers are on t-mobile because we aren't known for getting the best phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it's more that homebrew communities develop around the devices that can be used off contract or at off-contract prices.
Hence things like the HD2, the Sensation, and the Nexus become far more popular than they otherwise would be if they couldn't be used on a ton of networks without full data pricing. In fact, those devices continue to be relevant long after their hardware would indicate they should be.

Not really
The Devs have already started the JB 10 roms cooking, I think we have some good devs in here, they ave already started the JB 10 roms cooking. I for one would love a full CM9 port with a good camera. I try not to worry what roms the other phones have seeing as I don't have those phones.

Hopefully you guys can get a larger community going. The support for my Sensation has been nothing short of phenomenal. Got ICS super early, already have had JB alphas for a week. The number of ROMs can be overwhelming, and truth be told the support is what keeps me with a phone that is lacking in the hardware department.
Sent from my Sensation using xda app-developers app

People seem to be forgetting that the reason jelly bean updates are rolling out so quickly is because a lot of the work was done in ICS. And previous to that ICS was a laborious process hampered by the refusal of google to release honeycomb.
This device didn't exist during gingerbread so we didn't have a large base of developers refreshing for a code drop so they could release something for a hungry and eager audience. Also, it's difficult to develop for a device that one doesn't own. The One is still a flagship model and few people own one and even fewer want to brick their new device.
If another six months pass and development hasn't picked up then we might be able to express concern but right now being worried about where the stuff is seems premature to me.

EDNYLaw regarding locked bootloader's

Author is xda member Ednylaw
To file with the FCC, EDNYLaw has created a formal complaint. To use, simply click the link below, download the .docx and input YOUR name and information required below.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26329079/FCC%20Complaint%20Web.docx
Here is EDNYlaw in his own words:
Quoted from Post 55: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=29945914&postcount=55
EDNYLaw said:
I am the Attorney who wrote that comment on Droid Life and wrote the FCC Complaint. Please direct all your questions to me as I'm happy to answer them and help move things forward. A couple of things:
1) To those that think unlocking a bootloader is pointless with all the workarounds, I don't want to hear it, if that's how you feel, you're entitled to your opinion but please don't pollute this thread with your useless comments. Help or get out. PS: if the bootloader gets unlocked I fully expect either a) a statement from anyone saying it was pointless thanking the community if they choose to unlock or b) you DO NOT unlock your bootloader
2) I have not taken Verizon to court, the FCC did not take Verizon to court. The FCC made a determination that Verizon is violating the C Block regulation (it's a regulation, not law, there's a difference) and fined them. The violation was in regard to tethering apps and Google wallet. While my complaint touched on these things, the gravamen of my complaint was regarding locked bootloaders and custom ROMs, which I believe there is still a significant argument to be made.
3) Anyone who wants to read my full complaint (and send it to the FCC or their US Senators/Representatives under their name) it is located here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/109uYmho_6daIpAl0ACPSFoK0qrd6K9wp5yeqM7dEaoI/edit edit it accordingly as the beginning part was specific to me
4) Keep me informed and up to date about anything. The more minds the better. I've subscribed to this topic so I'll check in when I can.
5) As of yet I can't really think of a cause of action to take Verizon to court other than an injunction, but I'm not even thinking about a lawsuit unless it's funded or I get some help from other attorneys. I have a full time job and I'm learning to develop in my free time so I just don't have the time to pursue a giant lawsuit by myself for free right now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EDNYLaw said:
If OP could put this in the OP it'll probably be helpful:
When I say fill in your information I mean:
I've bolded the things you need to fill in
STATE OF YOUR STATE )
)ss:
COUNTY OF YOUR COUNTY )
----------------------------------------------------------------X
In re Verizon Wireless
YOUR NAME
Complainant,
-against-
Verizon Wireless
----------------------------------------------------------------X
You do not need an FCC Complaint Number, the reason I had a complaint number was I had previously sent in a complaint.
Make sure you also "sign" it at the bottom (last page) above where it says Complainant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Continued...
EDNYLaw said:
1) Use my complaint (provided in my post above) and in the first part where it says Verizon Wireless against... fill in your name and in the last part where it says "Respectfully Submitted" put your info in (Name, address, telephone, email)
2) I filed the complaint with the FCC and got a BS canned response from Verizon, I refiled and got the same canned BS response. After my Senator followed up I got a response from the FCC saying I could file a formal complaint, but clearly that was just a dead end since I filed 2 formal complaints and pushed the issue with my senator. Though I guess someone at the FCC caught wind because that 7/31 decision seemed to agree with my complaints and the timing was a little too coincidental
3) Completely free: go to fcc.gov and click on file consumer complaint. Email, fax or mail my complaint with your information filled in to them. I would also send it to your US Senators. Anyone from Minnesota, I think Senator Franken would be a great person to follow up with something like this.
4) In order to help out, SPREAD THE WORD! The more people that are vocal about this the better. When I was doing this with Moto I tried to get Droid Life, Android Central and Phandroid to post an article but none of them were interested. I say, spam them and get them to post an article with my complaint and what people can do. Again, the more people that are complaining and vocal, the more likely a response will be had. Give people my complaint to fill in, email the fcc chairman and commissioners (google to find their emails, it's just [email protected]). If you (or someone you know who is interested in this type of thing) is an attorney, feel free to PM me and maybe we can talk about something. Again, I don't have a tremendous amount of time to invest in this for no pay and by myself. But if there were enough attorney's interested I'd do it pro bono (for free) with the help of a group of attorneys.
And as I said, if you have questions about Verizon's policy and potential violations, ask me and I'll try to answer them. I did all the research and writing myself in my spare time and I think I nailed it insofar as the legal issues. There is next to no case law on the specific issues so I had to make legal arguments based on what little resources I had and the plain language of the regulation. Now at least that the FCC has released this decision, there is some precedent that they are actually willing to enforce a regulation instead of being a puppet for the wireless carriers (though I'm not completely convinced they're autonomous, 1.25 million to Verizon is nothing when their profits were 2.4 billion last year, that's .0005% of their profits for those keeping score at home)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks EDNYLaw. Mine is going in the mail today!
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Good bye HTC Rezound, hello Galaxy S3!

Haha this is epic. Here comes another fine Verizon!
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app

Dude I wish you well, and your kinda my hero today lol
Sent from my Xoom using xda premium

Very nice; thanks for posting it.
More momentum for our filing our complaints.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1808956
FCC will win, VZW will send an update....right at the moment I say to myself, "Ah....it took weeks but I have my phone exactly how I want it!"

am i the only one who sees no reason for unlocking the bootloader? we have a perfectly functioning workaround.

brockkk said:
am i the only one who sees no reason for unlocking the bootloader? we have a perfectly functioning workaround.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perfectly is an overstatement. It kinda sucks and we don't have a ton of development cause devs frankly don't want to deal with it.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium

We do have a good workaround, however we shouldn't need a workaround.
Hopefully this goes somewhere, and Verizon has to fork out some more of that money of ours.

What was the outcome of this letter? It was pre Nexus S, so I assume it's been dealt with?

brockkk said:
am i the only one who sees no reason for unlocking the bootloader? we have a perfectly functioning workaround.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Workarounds are a stop-gap, duct tape, a rubber band and bubble gum, and should be temporary. Many (myself included) don't want to deal with it and it isolates us from a significant part of the dev community. One of the reasons I wanted the SIII is for its large, wide-spread attention...but ours is gimped.
The bigger issue is that VZW won't stop at bootloaders; how long before they lock everything?
The biggest issue is VZW is doing an end-run around the law.

AndroidGraphix said:
Just read this and thought it would be nice to share.
http://www.google.com/gwt/x/e?u=htt...Ymho_6daIpAl0ACPSFoK0qrd6K9wp5yeqM7dEaoI/edit
Good bye HTC Rezound, hello Galaxy S3!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you read that? Also, keep us updated!!!

ddggttff3 said:
Where did you read that? Also, keep us updated!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Found on Droid life.
Good bye HTC Rezound, hello Galaxy S3!

Drama queens. The development is fine.

brockkk said:
Drama queens. The development is fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason why we are "drama queens" is because Verizon is violating the law and is telling us that they could care less about that they locked the bootloader even if it violates the Block C since they can somehow get away with stuff like that.

brockkk said:
Drama queens. The development is fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously a noob with no idea of the potential this phone has and how crippled it is with a locked bootloader. Either that or he is killing time until he can preorder the iphone 5.
Sent from my unlocked GTab 2 running CM10

This guy needs to talk to them about Google wallet. Stupid Verizon.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app

Anyone know who the author is ??
the title is little misleading only cuz the fcc has not taken them to court yet, and more then likely Verizon will comply before it makes it to court
it looks more of very formal and will written compliant to the fcc (could be wrong still reading from phone)
very valid points presented in the compliant the fcc will diffidently pay attention to this one
i would suggest the author attache the petition in this thread to the complaint
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1756483
Sent from my Encrypted S3

Yeah, well. They claim that an unlocked bootloader shaves a few seconds off boot time. But it also has the ability to prevent bricks, and it makes development more open-ended. Right now all of vzw's custom rom devs have to bake kexec into the rom, which require extra work.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app

To everyone saying that some people here are drama queens, look at all the development the international version has: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1566. Just about all I see on that page is ROMs, ROMs, and more jelly bean ROMs. The locked bootloader has turned devs away from our version (as many people have already said). You may be happy with CM10 and a kexec workaround, but a lot of us want more options.

tonu42 said:
Look at how far whining has gotten for the Droid Series by Motorola. No where.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did Motorola have an agreement with the FCC prohibiting such activities?
If it doesn't stop now, how long before your recovery also becomes locked?

kmoore11 said:
To everyone saying that some people here are drama queens, look at all the development the international version has: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1566. Just about all I see on that page is ROMs, ROMs, and more jelly bean ROMs. The locked bootloader has turned devs away from our version (as many people have already said). You may be happy with CM10 and a kexec workaround, but a lot of us want more options.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
International version had a jump on Verizon. Hell every other carrier did. I browsed the first page of at&ts development and counted 7 ROMs Verizon had 4 on their first page. And don't even bother looking at sprints development section. This is all getting blown out of proportion.

[Q] This may sound tres "conspiracy theory-ist", BUT ...

Suddenly and without warning today ... this hypothesis struck me and started to develop (much like an impending thunderstorm). I wonder: What if somehow Apple managed to coerce AT&T into sabotaging the ICS release with the intent of deflating Samsung, just in case their lawsuit didn't work out? In return, AT&T would be thrown a handful of Apple exclusives (since they were so bent out of shape about Apple cheating on them first with Verizon then Sprint; ironically about the same time that the Android lineup REALLY improved at AT&T). Naturally, greedy AT&T would jump at the chance to be Apple's main (excuse me) ***** one more time, right?
I guess this is coming from a place of substantial anger. I'm FURIOUS that the phone I LOVED so much for seven months was basically taken away from me. And there is not a SINGLE official word from either Samsung or AT&T about what I can do about it. So I suppose I can bring the thing back to Best Buy, AGAIN, and recieve another REFURBISHED edition (one that's only 300 IMEI numbers up from the original one), but honestly, I don't have the time or desire to rebuild the damn thing one more time (and then beg the guy at Android Assistant to please let me not have to pay again ... etc. etc. etc.)
I know ... I'm delving deeeeeeep into conspiracy theorism and perhaps I shouldn't play so many video games. BUT, maybe ............ anybody think it makes sense?
PS Thanks for keeping this great and informative site running. It serves as such an amazing resource. The amount of knowledge I've picked up here is invaluable.

WOW. Really?? My phones running great on AOKP JB. Sounds more like user error than a multi-business conspiracy.

JB?
hechoen said:
WOW. Really?? My phones running great on AOKP JB. Sounds more like user error than a multi-business conspiracy.
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Did i miss something and AT&T officially released JB? Because I'm speaking specifically about the official release that AT&T and Samsung sent out to its customers ... you know, the legal way.

Yeah you missed the whole point of this site. lol

NYCblues said:
Suddenly and without warning today ... this hypothesis struck me and started to develop (much like an impending thunderstorm). I wonder: What if somehow Apple managed to coerce AT&T into sabotaging the ICS release with the intent of deflating Samsung, just in case their lawsuit didn't work out? In return, AT&T would be thrown a handful of Apple exclusives (since they were so bent out of shape about Apple cheating on them first with Verizon then Sprint; ironically about the same time that the Android lineup REALLY improved at AT&T). Naturally, greedy AT&T would jump at the chance to be Apple's main (excuse me) ***** one more time, right?
I guess this is coming from a place of substantial anger. I'm FURIOUS that the phone I LOVED so much for seven months was basically taken away from me. And there is not a SINGLE official word from either Samsung or AT&T about what I can do about it. So I suppose I can bring the thing back to Best Buy, AGAIN, and recieve another REFURBISHED edition (one that's only 300 IMEI numbers up from the original one), but honestly, I don't have the time or desire to rebuild the damn thing one more time (and then beg the guy at Android Assistant to please let me not have to pay again ... etc. etc. etc.)
I know ... I'm delving deeeeeeep into conspiracy theorism and perhaps I shouldn't play so many video games. BUT, maybe ............ anybody think it makes sense?
PS Thanks for keeping this great and informative site running. It serves as such an amazing resource. The amount of knowledge I've picked up here is invaluable.
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No. Dude these are multibillion dollar companies, they have better **** to deal then playing subterfuge over what would amount to a couple thousand dollars, at the most, lost from annoyed customers
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

what do you mean taken away from you? did you mess it up and bricked it or somebody confiscated it from your home?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium

NYCblues said:
Did i miss something and AT&T officially released JB? Because I'm speaking specifically about the official release that AT&T and Samsung sent out to its customers ... you know, the legal way.
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Actually- rooting your phone and using a custom ROM are 100% legal.
Carriers like at&t don't like it, but its legal.
Sent from my SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

Lol. If anything AT&T is trying to get away from Apple products. They make more profit selling Android devices.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

mindmajick said:
Actually- rooting your phone and using a custom ROM are 100% legal.
Carriers like at&t don't like it, but its legal.
Sent from my SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2
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THIS.
All it does is void your warranty. Since it was probably already void for who knows why else among the array of things that could void your warranty, the OP's argument is null and void, and similarly a useless waste of space.

aycockonxion said:
THIS.
All it does is void your warranty. Since it was probably already void for who knows why else among the array of things that could void your warranty, the OP's argument is null and void, and similarly a useless waste of space.
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What argument? Who's arguing with who? What'd I miss?
And since I didn't really present any facts since it wasn't an argument, per se ... what exactly is your point?
Seems like all you guys want to do is argue ... or troll. Hmmmmmm.
PS the original point was meant to be a funny "get this **** out of my head" thing. Maybe I'll re-evaluate my needs. Can I have my money back, then?

NYCblues said:
What argument? Who's arguing with who? What'd I miss?
And since I didn't really present any facts since it wasn't an argument, per se ... what exactly is your point?
Seems like all you guys want to do is argue ... or troll. Hmmmmmm.
PS the original point was meant to be a funny "get this **** out of my head" thing. Maybe I'll re-evaluate my needs. Can I have my money back, then?
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It's who is arguing with whom. Also, I believe the word you were searching for in the thread title is theorist, not theory-ist.
Sincerely,
Heir Hare
XDA Grammar Nazi
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m4570d0n said:
It's who is arguing with whom. Also, I believe the word you were searching for in the thread title is theorist, not theory-ist.
Sincerely,
Heir Hare
XDA Grammar Nazi
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I love grammar Nazis! U R the gr8est!

m4570d0n said:
It's who is arguing with whom. Also, I believe the word you were searching for in the thread title is theorist, not theory-ist.
Sincerely,
Heir Hare
XDA Grammar Nazi
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That was sweet! ALL HAIL GRAMMAR NAZI! As far as the 'discussion' goes, it should make no difference to you who releases what and when. As it was pointed out, maybe you are missing the point of this arena. Whether you develop, tinker, or just screw around with your phone, the point is this: collectively, we as a group could not care less what the carriers or even manufacturers provide for us in the way of OS updates. We seek out our own, by way of skilled and knowledgeable people who aren't satisfied with the bloatware infested offerings given to us long after the fact. As a member of this forum, you are EXPECTED to have the desire to learn how to make your own way in the android world, albeit with the help of others most of the time.This is a development and learning forum. Regardless of the trolling and/or occasional flaming for the sub-genius among us, you need to want to learn, not wait on the conglomerates to dole out what they want to....my penny and a half.

[NEWS] Cyanogenmod stopping with supporting Samsung devices!

Hello Xda!
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Sad news for Samsung Users Here!
Every new phone from samsung that is comming out now will get no longer support from Cyanogenmod mostly the devices with a Exynos chip designed by samsung. get no more support!
Samsung said on twitter that The are taking this case very seriously!
Why is Cyanogenmod stopping with support for samsung devices?
The following reasons:
- FM-radio will never work
- Exynos Chip
- On jelly bean (Vsync and tripple buffering) will never work because the graphical drivers do not support this!
But there is some good news All samsung devices that are Out now will get support from Cyanogenmod!
only the devices that are coming out now will get no Cyanogenmod!
SOURCE: http://tweakers.net/nieuws/84925/makers-cyanogenmod-willen-support-samsung-toestellen-stoppen.html
(The source is a Dutch site so you musta translate it to English!)

This is the problem when manufacturers stray too far away from the core Android ecosystem. Their product may be good but things stop working, people get annoyed. Eventually the sales will drop and customers will get the usual things.

raze599 said:
This is the problem when manufacturers stray too far away from the core Android ecosystem. Their product may be good but things stop working, people get annoyed. Eventually the sales will drop and customers will get the usual things.
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This is just the stupidest thing that samsung could do!

link?

SyXbiT said:
link?
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This is a dutch site so you must translate it!
http://tweakers.net/nieuws/84925/makers-cyanogenmod-willen-support-samsung-toestellen-stoppen.html

safariking said:
This is a dutch site so you must translate it!
http://tweakers.net/nieuws/84925/makers-cyanogenmod-willen-support-samsung-toestellen-stoppen.html
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It doesn't mean that there point blank won't be any Exynos support, unfortunately 2 out of 3 main Samsung Cyanogen maintainers are not gonna support it anymore. The biggest issue is that unless Samsung improve / update their documentation, any new developer will have the same issues.
Originally Posted by Entropy512
Not likely to happen. If CM comes to the Note 2, it will only be if a new maintainer steps up.
Most of the current Exynos maintainer team (myself, espenfjo, codeworkx) and others have all decided that our current devices will be our last non-Nexus Exynos devices. I'm not sure about xplodwild, but I have a feeling he's highly unlikely to take up another Haxxinos with the rest of us gone and given his prior experiences with it.
If Samsung changes their attitude towards developers, this might change, but their attitude lately (zero documentation, zero platform source code, a trend towards bootloader locking - Only the Verizon S3 has a locked bootloader now, but Samsung has had the infrastructure in place since the S2 and they are constantly adding more checks) has led to the current Exynos maintainer team deciding that enough is enough. I don't think any of us are going to do anything to make Samsung's Exynos devices more attractive to any particular market segment until they provide assistance (in the form of technical documentation and source code) in return. I don't know about the others, but if they offer me a free device I'll say no - I refuse to participate in a PR stunt like the I9100 donations were.
Pretty much the only way I'll go back is if I see reference platform source that is up to the same standards as CAF and omapzoom, or they actually start providing real documentation and source code for the devices I'm currently working with.

too bad for samsung!!!!

zild8 said:
too bad for samsung!!!!
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Not really, in the short-term at least, we geek/hackers/devs etc are but a small slice of the market. I bet Google would not mind Samsung losing favor with dev community, more people on Nexus phones!

So sad because as ive read, 50% of android phones comes with samsung.

ErvinJohnEstrera said:
So sad because as ive read, 50% of android phones comes with samsung.
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Yes but then i will go over to htc

Turbotab said:
Not really, in the short-term at least, we geek/hackers/devs etc are but a small slice of the market. I bet Google would not mind Samsung losing favor with dev community, more people on Nexus phones!
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Hackers and devs will port than cm to the non supported devices but it will be a more difficulter job!

So how does this jive with the fact that Steve Kondik, founder of CyanogenMod, works for Samsung?

Sorensiim said:
So how does this jive with the fact that Steve Kondik, founder of CyanogenMod, works for Samsung[/URL]?
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Maybe that's why no more CM on future Samsung phones? Could be conflict of interest, or was asked to cease and desist or lose his job?

safariking said:
Yes but then i will go over to htc
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did it already, samsungs poltics sucks more and more i guess. and their devices getting bigger and more popular, that's maybe why they don't need us anymore; their devices are more and more for mass-market :x

merovig said:
did it already, samsungs poltics sucks more and more i guess. and their devices getting bigger and more popular, that's maybe why they don't need us anymore; their devices are more and more for mass-market :x
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Yes that's true but Samsung is so slow with their updates i had to wait 6 months for my ICS upgrade on my Galaxy Tab 8.9!

safariking said:
Yes that's true but Samsung is so slow with their updates i had to wait 6 months for my ICS upgrade on my Galaxy Tab 8.9!
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Slow? The Sprint Galaxy S2 has been getting ICS leaks since February... We have had 3 official ICS releases since then. JB builds are in the works now.
If anything, we may get our updates a few months after AOSP, but that's because of TouchWiz. Samsung support has been great in my opinion.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

Sorensiim said:
So how does this jive with the fact that Steve Kondik, founder of CyanogenMod, works for Samsung?
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Steve Kondik works for Samsung USA and according to the other thread works more closely with the Qualcomm chips. Samsung HQ in Korea are the ones responsible for not releasing the Exynos source code.

lowandbehold said:
Steve Kondik works for Samsung USA and according to the other thread works more closely with the Qualcomm chips. Samsung HQ in Korea are the ones responsible for not releasing the Exynos source code.
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The whole issue with Samsung HQ in Korea reminds me of both Sony and Toyota, who refused to listen to their foreign offices and ended suffering because of it. Sony lost their dominate position in the consumer tech business. Toyota spent $2.4 Billion trying to win a Formula 1 title, and didn't even win a bloody race!, Red Bull spent a fraction of that and have won 2 F1 titles, it safe to assume that Toyota doesn't lack engineering skill, but their Japanese HQ refused to relinquish control to the F1 experts running their race team, which meant everything became corporate and decision by committee and they lost the ability to react quickly / take risk.
The whole issue revolves around cultural differences between the Far East and the West, who are far more hierarchical and interested in being conservative and committee-led to avoid the loss of face (respect), this can bring benefits in terms of stability, but in fast moving economies having a dynamic risk taking leader, for example Steve Jobs can reap huge benefits, as you can execute far quicker and gain market dominance, btw I can't imagine Steve Jobs caring what people thought of him, the Toyota Executives cried in public because of the F1 disaster!.
The US economy has boomed because of this leadership style, even when its technology was no better or even worse than the Japanese for example, i.e GM vs Honda, of course the Credit Crunch, Enron and Wall Street greed / fraud are good examples of the negative aspects of Western business leadership
Anyway, Sammobile has a good article about the problem with Samsung's software updates.
http://www.sammobile.com/2012/10/15...ungs-smartphones-and-tablets-is-one-big-fail/
---------- Post added at 07:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:58 PM ----------
safariking said:
Hackers and devs will port than cm to the non supported devices but it will be a more difficulter job!
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With incomplete / inaccurate documentation / driver blobs the end result will always be buggier and less feature packed than stock Samsung, e.g. Project Butter (HW Composer) doesn't work properly on GS3 Exynos Cyanogenmod because of the above issues, what is the point of Jelly Bean without lots of butter:laugh: The current sammy CM team are really good, I doubt anybody else could do better with the current restrictions.:crying:

Turbotab said:
The whole issue with Samsung HQ in Korea reminds me of both Sony and Toyota......
..
...
.....
.......
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^this guy knows what he's talking about... :thumbup::good:
When I read the first page, there was plenty of stuff that I wanted to point, but I guess he covered it all up...
"By the power vested in me, I now pronounce you, Man and Knife"

a.cid said:
^this guy knows what he's talking about... :thumbup::good:
When I read the first page, there was plenty of stuff that I wanted to point, but I guess he covered it all up...
"By the power vested in me, I now pronounce you, Man and Knife"
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Samsung still has great phones and even the new ones we are able to hack it!
I know that for sure!