Database Info

Apple get google to change android

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18705285
As a result of the nexus ban google announced today that they will change android features such as its search function as well as other unspecified changes.
This has been apples goal by litigating, to get android itself changed, to make it appear a feature lacking sub standard rival.
It also means further court cases could result in more changes, it's a shame apple can only look good by litigating against their competition.
More details at http://thenextweb.com/mobile/2012/0...o-overcome-a-possible-galaxy-nexus-sales-ban/ which says that search results will be web pages only and no local information will be returned in searches.
This seems to mean siri who can give out local results (a feature apparently patented by apple) will seem better than googles offering. No idea what else will change but it seems apples plan is starting to pay off and change android itself to make it less threatening.
This shouldn't affect european users as we don't allow software patents, and it won't affect current non google devices, but it does mean from now on android itself will be lacking certain things and as stock android is affected this means all androids in future that use jellybean or higher may also be affected.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2

I'm sorry for everyone in the US but the big question for us is, will google be developing two version of android?
One full blown for the rest of the world and one half-arsed for the US?
EDIT: I also would like to know why google doesn't apply their patent for the notification system?

This mess is ridiculous. F Apple forever. I won't so much as touch an Apple device anymore.

MissionImprobable said:
This mess is ridiculous. F Apple forever. I won't so much as touch an Apple device anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 :good:

mojo22 said:
I'm sorry for everyone in the US but the big question for us is, will google be developing two version of android?
One full blown for the rest of the world and one half-arsed for the US?
EDIT: I also would like to know why google doesn't apply their patent for the notification system?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google can't apply their patent as it has not been granted, only applied for, and therefore cannot be infringed.
Google being a US company I think if they allowed two versions that apple would find a way to litigate because it would still be a US company violating a US patent if the software was developed in america.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2

I don't get how the US operates like that... The land of the free quickly became the land of -CENSORSHIP- and Lawsuits.
As big as google is, and as much "stuff" as they're doing, I wouldn't be surprised if Google owns Apple in the future. I mean come on... Apple made a tablet, Google made a car that drives itself.

Stozzy_ThrEED said:
I don't get how the US operates like that... The land of the free quickly became the land of -Corporations- and Lawsuits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fixed it for you. Its a corporate world.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

Stozzy_ThrEED said:
I don't get how the US operates like that... The land of the free quickly became the land of -CENSORSHIP- and Lawsuits.
As big as google is, and as much "stuff" as they're doing, I wouldn't be surprised if Google owns Apple in the future. I mean come on... Apple made a tablet, Google made a car that drives itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is that google now own motorolas patents which are essential to phones but can't be with-held even if not paid for because they are frand.
Indeed a german court ruled that despite apple not paying their fees motorola can't use these same patents against them and so google can't use their most powerful weapon precisely because it is so important that courts rule it cannot be with held.
It is worse in usa though due to allowing software patents.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2

Stozzy_ThrEED said:
I don't get how the US operates like that... The land of the free quickly became the land of -CENSORSHIP- and Lawsuits.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All it takes is for someone to cry 'foul' get their feelings hurt and cry for mommy and daddy, or government, to fix it; then the system gets messed up and we lose freedoms one by one.
Now here we are, celebrating Government Dependance Day!

I remeber one ooooold movie: "Escape from New York" with Kurt Russel............

mistermentality said:
Google can't apply their patent as it has not been granted, only applied for, and therefore cannot be infringed.
Google being a US company I think if they allowed two versions that apple would find a way to litigate because it would still be a US company violating a US patent if the software was developed in america.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are frand patents?
Why can't google europe...or google UK, google france etc. release the software on our play store?
Hear me out for a second. IF this google now, google voice thing that is banned from the states become a apk...or simple APP that can be downloaded and installed 'only for europe' supposedly, and released by this side of the world. Why would that be violating the patent?
Then ultimately US member could install it as well which will be out of Google (US) control.
Surely there is a way around this...

Apple wins even when they lose see below
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/05/us/david-gelernter-discusses-patent-claim-against-apple.html?_r=3
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

mojo22 said:
What are frand patents?
Why can't google europe...or google UK, google france etc. release the software on our play store?
Hear me out for a second. IF this google now, google voice thing that is banned from the states become a apk...or simple APP that can be downloaded and installed 'only for europe' supposedly, and released by this side of the world. Why would that be violating the patent?
Then ultimately US member could install it as well which will be out of Google (US) control.
Surely there is a way around this...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Frand patents are patents essential to a product, meaning if the patent holder refuses to let others use the patents then no one else could easily make a competing product.
As a result europe make sure the frand licence (short for fair, reasonable and non discriminatory) is applied which means they must be allowed to be used providing those using the patents pay royalties.
Regarding the voice search being available unchanged in europe I'm not a lawyer so I may be wrong but logically as google would be still developing it in usa and are usa based, where the court ruling applies, they would still be developing something they legally agreed not to and therefore would still in violation.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2

Seriously Apple?
the use of a single search interface - such as Siri - to retrieve information from a range of systems using a number of techniques
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
-I'm pretty sure that is how Google has been doing things on their search engine for years. Yes there were other search engines before Google but thats not the point.
the use of a sliding gesture to unlock a touchscreen device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
-It hasn't been sliding since Gingerbread, and even if it was its been around in the analog world for hundreds of years.
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a text input interface that tries to anticipate which words the user wants to type and makes recommendations
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
-This has been around in Windows Mobile for at least 10 years and possibly Palm as well. Its far from revolutionary.

spunker88 said:
Seriously Apple?
-I'm pretty sure that is how Google has been doing things on their search engine for years. Yes there were other search engines before Google but thats not the point.
-It hasn't been sliding since Gingerbread, and even if it was its been around in the analog world for hundreds of years.
-This has been around in Windows Mobile for at least 10 years and possibly Palm as well. Its far from revolutionary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already posted this but i feel i have to post it again
Slide to unlock, see with your eyes, was invented long time ago and was working perfectly on this ancient windows mobile device (if i'm not wrong it was 3 years before the first iphone, uh!)
go to min 4, enjoy
http://www.androidcentral.com/apple-granted-patent-slide-unlock-even-though-it-existed-2-years-they-invented-it

xdaid said:
I already posted this but i feel i have to post it again
Slide to unlock, see with your eyes, was invented long time ago and was working perfectly on this ancient windows mobile device (if i'm not wrong it was 3 years before the first iphone, uh!)
go to min 4, enjoy
http://www.androidcentral.com/apple-granted-patent-slide-unlock-even-though-it-existed-2-years-they-invented-it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its an analog concept implemented digitally just like computer folders. Meaning its not a new idea, its an existing idea being implemented in a new medium.

So we have all these previous examples of "prior art" and "essentials" to any smartphone/touchscreen phone. Are the Samsung lawyers really that dim/stupid or is Judge Koh not the so called "fair" honorable judge that has ruled for Android/against Apple in the past?

Koh is being paid by Apple

domnic619 said:
Koh is being paid by Apple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From all this I'm reading its starting to look like apple pays off a lot of people such as the judge who ruled against the professor who was blown up by the unabomber despite winning the jury's vote and having a email from Steve jobs requesting to talk about using his technology... dude how many people are in the us on xda? How many people would it take to petition to remove the law that allows software patents? Its bull**** that apple can try to monopolize the cell phone market especially when most features were around long before they got their patents.. I think if we got millions of people to petition this it couldn't go unnoticed to say the least.. not saying it would change but drawing as much attention as possible is how to start a change right?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda premium

domnic619 said:
Koh is being paid by Apple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, and this is coming frome a Mac and iPad enthusiast.

Official Support My Moto Campaign Thread

As of November 9th, 2012, Motorola is still selling the Electrify and Photon as CURRENT phones. Nowhere in their "store" section is it mentioned that both phones are discontinued and will not receive any updates or patches.
ROUND 3:
THE ICS LEAK AND THE THEAD HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM XDA AS WELL AS POSTS MADE BY epinter FOR THE PAST COUPLE DAYS!
The official reason as to why this happened
FBI warns users of mobile malware (Google states Jelly Bean has protection that older versions of Android does not)
Cnet Article: FBI warns users of mobile malware
Support My Moto Campaign has been specifically mentioned in latest Cnet article.
A big thanks goes out to Casey Newton and Roger Cheng for mentioning us here at Support My Moto!
Over fourty articles covering Motorola's removal of the ICS update and over ten articles that mention the campaigns
This is the Official Support My Moto Campaign Thread
​
Support My Moto! at supportmymoto.com​A unified campaign backed by developers and you requesting Ice Cream Sandwich & Jellybean updates, source code, and unlocked bootloaders for the owners of Atrix MB860, Atrix MB861, Atrix ME860, Electrify MB853 ,Photon MB855, DROID X2, MB870, XT882, MT870
The main goals of the campaign is to have a unified front in submission of requests for Ice Cream Sandwich & Jellybean updates, source code, and unlocked bootloaders for the owners of all phones on covered by Motorola's $100 Tradeup Program.
What we would like to happen;
Unlock would make JB ROMs available to anybody that wants it.
Updating would cover more moto owners and thereby minimize the impact to Moto's profits and public image.
A clean plan of how the $100 credit is to work as "We're looking into it" type statements are very damaging.
The reason we ask these things is that it gives Motorola room to work with. Once/if Motorola decides to open up a line of communication then specifics could be discussed. Ideally unlock and an update would cover almost all Moto owners. Either way, both solutions would be of benefit to Moto. Even though I'm fronting the campaign I would like to see as many people walk away from it happy, or at least not want to attack each other.
This is achieved by filing Better Business Bureau Complaints, FTC Complaints, emailing The Consumerist and signing the petitions. These things and more can be achieved at the
Support My Moto Website
#supportmymoto Support My Moto IRC chat to discuss issues and tactics
For IRC chat on your phone try AndChat​
If your company or employer has decided to remove Motorola from the approved supplier list for cell phones, please contact us. We would love to hear from you.
Please remember to submit Support My Moto to the news sites and tech blogs for coverage.
If you are a developer and would like to sign on, post "Count me in!" and I will add you to the list on the website and here as well.
SIGNATURE PIC TO SHOW SUPPORT IS ATTACHED TO THIS POST

Support My Moto Team​DEVELOPERS
Th3Bill
mof9336
peetr_
zacthespack
Magiman7
upndwn4par
mmontuori
Syl
samcripp
spleef
android-DEP
shabbypenguin
tiger013
k0nane
stevendeb25
epinter
Notorious544d
pinguy1982
italosnt
Contributors
azrienoch of XDA Developer TV
na7q of motosunfire.com
QBKing77 & His Youtube channel Please be sure to send some "Thanks" his way for the video!

Support My Moto has been submitted to the following;
If you post or submit to any sites please post the info here so I can add it!
Android Police
ars technica
c|net
engadget
Motofail Facebook page
Motorola
Motorola Forums - Atrix 4G with Ice Cream Sandwich
Motorola Forums - atrix upgrade status news changed today, explain
Motorola Forums - Photon 4G Officially not getting upgraded
Punit Soni's G+ Share of engadget article
WebProNews
Pocketnow
Androidcentral news
Androidcentral Photon forum
http://www.howardforums.com/showthr...port-My-Moto-Campaign-Thread-by-Lokifish-Marz
http://www.motorolafans.com/forums/...my-moto-campaign-thread-by-lokifish-marz.html
http://modmymobile.com/forums/402-g...rt-my-moto-campaign-thread-lokifish-marz.html
FrAndroid
One more thing before I really do go to bed. Anybody have an Android Central account? If so could you copy and paste THIS in the appropriate forums and link it here? Thanks guys!

I love you for this.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app

I just sent an email to Consumer Reports and it went like this:
CR did a review on not too long ago and gave high marks to the smartphone known as the Motorola Photon 4G. While I think that your review is fairly accurate, one thing you should mention to fellow consumers is Motorola's unfair business practice. Quite simply, Motorola posted an update schedule for upgrading the Android OS. The schedule stated for a period of a few months that this and a few other of their smartphones would receive an update to Android 4.0.4, also known as Ice Cream Sandwich. Currently, the only update it has been given is a maintenance release that only fixed a handful of issues and one that effectively locked the bootloader. In laymens terms, they closed the possibility for developers to enhance the devices longevity and usefulness. They effectively killed the open source nature of Android and its promise for software update support for the next 18 months, all of which were major selling points for most of their phones. In essence, they have effectively lied to consumers about the way they handle business and I would like for this to be brought to light, so that others may know just what they are getting into when dealing with Motorola Mobility and its affiliates. It is just very frustrating to have such a high-end device (that I worked hard to have) be left in the dark and abandoned by a company that I thought to be one of the leaders of the communications and development industry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It could have been better but it's very late down here. Anyway, before I hit the sack, I just voted for this to be submitted to the xda portal and for all others reading, I urge you all to do the same!
Sent from my MB855 using xda premium
supportmymoto.com
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supportmymoto.com

I just offloaded my Droid Bionic and Atrix 4G yesterday because of Motorola's craptastic backtreading on the ICS issues (and yes I realize the Bionic probably will get ICS, doesn't matter now). While I wish you folks the very best, I can pretty much promise you that even if every Motorola device owner called them tomorrow or contacted Motorola in some manner and said "To hell with you..." it wouldn't change anything at all.
But, good luck just the same...
hoslayer13:
That was a very well written submission to Consumer Reports, kudos.

Pocketnow
Androidcentral news
Androidcentral Photon forum I could post the same thread in the Atrix and Sunfire sections, but the moderators might think I'm spamming.

your doing a great job
BUT i highly doubt that MOTO will actually care about some petitions they will ignore it untill all of the users just give up :crying:
but if we all PING the MOTO site together maybe we can crash it a couple of times every week :laugh: and cause them a minor headache !!!!
all in all a truly hope that we will be surprised by them and somehow get the source codes for our developers !!!
have a nice day all

We just got zacthespack of "Linux on Android" fame on board!
(and no I haven't go to sleep yet even though it's 3:23AM local)
XxReApErxX said:
Pocketnow
Androidcentral news
Androidcentral Photon forum I could post the same thread in the Atrix and Sunfire sections, but the moderators might think I'm spamming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Contact the mods at AC and let them know what the deal is. They should be ok with it.
d_brimer said:
BUT i highly doubt that MOTO will actually care about some petitions they will ignore it untill all of the users just give up :crying:
but if we all PING the MOTO site together maybe we can crash it a couple of times every week :laugh: and cause them a minor headache !!!!
all in all a truly hope that we will be surprised by them and somehow get the source codes for our developers !!!
have a nice day all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and no. We may personally not get what we want however seeing that there are over 400 new site and blogs covering the update BS the losses that moto will most likely see are not going to be small. That doesn't even figure in the possible losses from existing moto owners. You also have to keep in mind that folks in California have a couple things they can do as well (wink, wink).

You should have an official message to post on tweeter, +google and facebook, and the tag shouldn't be #motofail. This isn't a motofail campaign, it is supportmymoto... The tag should be that so that it doesn't get confused with anything else. If it is going to be a real campaign it has to be organized and it has to give that image as well. Just a bunch of angry nerds yelling fail isn't going to get their attention. Just sayin'.
Cheers.
PS: Good on 'ya for creating the site so fast.

Guys...good job.
Idiotic Moto won't update MB526 or MB525 to ICS or JB, even if their hardware can do the job easily.
Sent from my house via interwebs to You!

Lugaidster said:
You should have an official message to post on tweeter, +google and facebook, and the tag shouldn't be #motofail. This isn't a motofail campaign, it is supportmymoto... The tag should be that so that it doesn't get confused with anything else. If it is going to be a real campaign it has to be organized and it has to give that image as well. Just a bunch of angry nerds yelling fail isn't going to get their attention. Just sayin'.
Cheers.
PS: Good on 'ya for creating the site so fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually if you share via the campaign site it adds the supportmymoto. The motofail and other tags that others used provide a way for supportmymoto folks to locate posts to spread word.
Also once the current tiny petitions fill up I will start a massive petition to cover all the bases.

hoslayer13 said:
I just sent an email to Consumer Reports and it went like this:
It could have been better but it's very late down here. Anyway, before I hit the sack, I just voted for this to be submitted to the xda portal and for all others reading, I urge you all to do the same!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nicely done!
---------- Post added at 03:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:31 AM ----------
As requested, I am copying and pasting the post from jbot81's thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1918696 here:
jbot81 said:
So far, Motorola's best response to us betrayed Photon owners was that they would buy our devices back for $100. After my initial excitement of Motorola's unending generosity died down, I realized that $100 isn't so generous after all.
-- Sprint will give you $63 for your phone.
-- Samsung will give you $75 for your phone. samsungupgrade.com
-- HTC will give you $75 for your phone. htctradeup.com
-- As of 10/2 used Photons are selling on ebay in good condition for more than $100 (search past listings for Photon 4G)
Essentially, excluding what you can get if you go to the trouble of selling your Photon on ebay, Motorola is giving us an extra $25, since they are requiring us to send in a device that does have some value elsewhere. Is $25 enough for you to stay a Motorola customer? That is certainly up to you. But you should at least be aware that other major phone manufacturers are not far off, and may very well provide better support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

You can count me in too... I'm a supporting Developer...
http://www.howardforums.com/showthr...port-My-Moto-Campaign-Thread-by-Lokifish-Marz
http://www.motorolafans.com/forums/...my-moto-campaign-thread-by-lokifish-marz.html
http://modmymobile.com/forums/402-g...rt-my-moto-campaign-thread-lokifish-marz.html

How to File a Formal Request to Motorola
Hello All - I have created a how to post for submitting a formal request to Motorola via their External Ideas Submissiong program. Please check it out here and submit your request to make this a reality to receive unlocked bootloaders. XDA How To File a Formal Request to Motorola Thread
Also, don't forget to go sign the online petition if you haven't done so we are at 12,200+ and still need about 2,700+ signatures. [here]

Source Code Petition doesn't seem to be working. Anyone else having trouble?

Linked in French forum here

tallyforeman said:
Source Code Petition doesn't seem to be working. Anyone else having trouble?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mee too...
Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2

Are you planning on putting a hit counter on the page?
Might be a good attention grabber.
Edit:
To anyone adding the supportmymoto.com banner to your signature, it would be helpful to link it to the site.

andr0idfreak said:
I have requested an Indian Technology News website tech2.in.com to cover this news. Got a reply that they will cover this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More good news
like I mentioned earlier. I can't find the source code petition anymore. could somebody link me
I got a couple hours sleep and am back at it. Let me get some coffee and I'll go through the ton of PM's I have received.
edit;
also have a couple of devs to add to the supported list. and alos need to ipdate to "been hit" list

[Q] This may sound tres "conspiracy theory-ist", BUT ...

Suddenly and without warning today ... this hypothesis struck me and started to develop (much like an impending thunderstorm). I wonder: What if somehow Apple managed to coerce AT&T into sabotaging the ICS release with the intent of deflating Samsung, just in case their lawsuit didn't work out? In return, AT&T would be thrown a handful of Apple exclusives (since they were so bent out of shape about Apple cheating on them first with Verizon then Sprint; ironically about the same time that the Android lineup REALLY improved at AT&T). Naturally, greedy AT&T would jump at the chance to be Apple's main (excuse me) ***** one more time, right?
I guess this is coming from a place of substantial anger. I'm FURIOUS that the phone I LOVED so much for seven months was basically taken away from me. And there is not a SINGLE official word from either Samsung or AT&T about what I can do about it. So I suppose I can bring the thing back to Best Buy, AGAIN, and recieve another REFURBISHED edition (one that's only 300 IMEI numbers up from the original one), but honestly, I don't have the time or desire to rebuild the damn thing one more time (and then beg the guy at Android Assistant to please let me not have to pay again ... etc. etc. etc.)
I know ... I'm delving deeeeeeep into conspiracy theorism and perhaps I shouldn't play so many video games. BUT, maybe ............ anybody think it makes sense?
PS Thanks for keeping this great and informative site running. It serves as such an amazing resource. The amount of knowledge I've picked up here is invaluable.

WOW. Really?? My phones running great on AOKP JB. Sounds more like user error than a multi-business conspiracy.

JB?
hechoen said:
WOW. Really?? My phones running great on AOKP JB. Sounds more like user error than a multi-business conspiracy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did i miss something and AT&T officially released JB? Because I'm speaking specifically about the official release that AT&T and Samsung sent out to its customers ... you know, the legal way.

Yeah you missed the whole point of this site. lol

NYCblues said:
Suddenly and without warning today ... this hypothesis struck me and started to develop (much like an impending thunderstorm). I wonder: What if somehow Apple managed to coerce AT&T into sabotaging the ICS release with the intent of deflating Samsung, just in case their lawsuit didn't work out? In return, AT&T would be thrown a handful of Apple exclusives (since they were so bent out of shape about Apple cheating on them first with Verizon then Sprint; ironically about the same time that the Android lineup REALLY improved at AT&T). Naturally, greedy AT&T would jump at the chance to be Apple's main (excuse me) ***** one more time, right?
I guess this is coming from a place of substantial anger. I'm FURIOUS that the phone I LOVED so much for seven months was basically taken away from me. And there is not a SINGLE official word from either Samsung or AT&T about what I can do about it. So I suppose I can bring the thing back to Best Buy, AGAIN, and recieve another REFURBISHED edition (one that's only 300 IMEI numbers up from the original one), but honestly, I don't have the time or desire to rebuild the damn thing one more time (and then beg the guy at Android Assistant to please let me not have to pay again ... etc. etc. etc.)
I know ... I'm delving deeeeeeep into conspiracy theorism and perhaps I shouldn't play so many video games. BUT, maybe ............ anybody think it makes sense?
PS Thanks for keeping this great and informative site running. It serves as such an amazing resource. The amount of knowledge I've picked up here is invaluable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. Dude these are multibillion dollar companies, they have better **** to deal then playing subterfuge over what would amount to a couple thousand dollars, at the most, lost from annoyed customers
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

what do you mean taken away from you? did you mess it up and bricked it or somebody confiscated it from your home?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium

NYCblues said:
Did i miss something and AT&T officially released JB? Because I'm speaking specifically about the official release that AT&T and Samsung sent out to its customers ... you know, the legal way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually- rooting your phone and using a custom ROM are 100% legal.
Carriers like at&t don't like it, but its legal.
Sent from my SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

Lol. If anything AT&T is trying to get away from Apple products. They make more profit selling Android devices.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

mindmajick said:
Actually- rooting your phone and using a custom ROM are 100% legal.
Carriers like at&t don't like it, but its legal.
Sent from my SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THIS.
All it does is void your warranty. Since it was probably already void for who knows why else among the array of things that could void your warranty, the OP's argument is null and void, and similarly a useless waste of space.

aycockonxion said:
THIS.
All it does is void your warranty. Since it was probably already void for who knows why else among the array of things that could void your warranty, the OP's argument is null and void, and similarly a useless waste of space.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What argument? Who's arguing with who? What'd I miss?
And since I didn't really present any facts since it wasn't an argument, per se ... what exactly is your point?
Seems like all you guys want to do is argue ... or troll. Hmmmmmm.
PS the original point was meant to be a funny "get this **** out of my head" thing. Maybe I'll re-evaluate my needs. Can I have my money back, then?

NYCblues said:
What argument? Who's arguing with who? What'd I miss?
And since I didn't really present any facts since it wasn't an argument, per se ... what exactly is your point?
Seems like all you guys want to do is argue ... or troll. Hmmmmmm.
PS the original point was meant to be a funny "get this **** out of my head" thing. Maybe I'll re-evaluate my needs. Can I have my money back, then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's who is arguing with whom. Also, I believe the word you were searching for in the thread title is theorist, not theory-ist.
Sincerely,
Heir Hare
XDA Grammar Nazi
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m4570d0n said:
It's who is arguing with whom. Also, I believe the word you were searching for in the thread title is theorist, not theory-ist.
Sincerely,
Heir Hare
XDA Grammar Nazi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love grammar Nazis! U R the gr8est!

m4570d0n said:
It's who is arguing with whom. Also, I believe the word you were searching for in the thread title is theorist, not theory-ist.
Sincerely,
Heir Hare
XDA Grammar Nazi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was sweet! ALL HAIL GRAMMAR NAZI! As far as the 'discussion' goes, it should make no difference to you who releases what and when. As it was pointed out, maybe you are missing the point of this arena. Whether you develop, tinker, or just screw around with your phone, the point is this: collectively, we as a group could not care less what the carriers or even manufacturers provide for us in the way of OS updates. We seek out our own, by way of skilled and knowledgeable people who aren't satisfied with the bloatware infested offerings given to us long after the fact. As a member of this forum, you are EXPECTED to have the desire to learn how to make your own way in the android world, albeit with the help of others most of the time.This is a development and learning forum. Regardless of the trolling and/or occasional flaming for the sub-genius among us, you need to want to learn, not wait on the conglomerates to dole out what they want to....my penny and a half.

RIL files

I sent this to the Office of the President (Mr. Yangkyu Kim) yesterday. I know when I sent an email complaining about the Charge and that I never plan on buying another Samsung again (I was talked into this one because my fiancee thinks the screen is "so much prettier" than the Thunderbolt's....), I received a personalized response from the same address. I am certain it's one of his lackeys but it was still a decent effort. Most letters of complaint receive a form letter, if any response at all...
==================================================================
Dear Mr. Kim:
I am writing in a last effort to implore you. This phone is a hardware masterpiece of its time and fully capable of running Android Ice Cream Sandwich and Jelly Bean. Yes, there are currently phones better than this from the sense of hardware but, for its time, this is a classic. It was the first LTE phone Samsung marketed in the US and paved the way for your current crop of best sellers!
The problem exists that this phone is now stuck in place and will never advance. It has a very involved user and developer community but that community cannot move forward due to your company's refusal to release the "RIL" - files necessary to adapt the software kernel and open it to true custom ROM development.
I know you are an incredibly busy man fully involved in the responsibilities of running the US division of a successful multinational conglomerate. All I am asking is that you use your power, authority and influence to task someone else with the release of these files. There is no profit to be made from keeping them proprietary - this phone is no longer manufactured by your company and the RIL files are, as far as I know, totally individualized to this device. All you and Samsung do by not releasing them is hold back an avid developer community and increase the ill will of those offended by the continued refusal to release these files.
Thank you for your time and consideration. I hope that I will have some effect on your decision and encourage you to do the right thing.

What was the response?
SENT FROM THE DOG POUND

cujo6801 said:
What was the response?
SENT FROM THE DOG POUND
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Sent from my N7 powered by AOSPA and M+ Kernel.

dSlice said:
+1
Sent from my N7 powered by AOSPA and M+ Kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this will be his response:
""

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the RIL isn't theirs to distribute. They license that from Qualcom. Even the AOSP RIL's are released binary only, and since there isn't an AOSP RIL for this phone, you have basically zero chance of getting anything from them.

what's to stop us from getting an AOSP RIL?

p2kmafia said:
what's to stop us from getting an AOSP RIL?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There was never an official one made for this phone, and the RIL code is closed source and controlled by Qualcom. Samsung licenses it from them, but that doesn't give them the rights to distribute it outside of the phone software. The closest thing out there as radios go is the GNex, and it is connected in a different way, so it's basically useless even for research.

Then contact Qualcom?
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda app-developers app

chefthomas99 said:
Then contact Qualcom?
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so you're saying we should invade Iran?
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shrike1978 said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the RIL isn't theirs to distribute. They license that from Qualcom. Even the AOSP RIL's are released binary only, and since there isn't an AOSP RIL for this phone, you have basically zero chance of getting anything from them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well... I wish I'd known that. Given the new info though, I made an effort to contact Qualcomm instead. Here is that email:
Dear Mr. Aberle:
I am writing in a last ditch effort to save a community... The Droid Charge by Samsung uses your chip technology and has reached a developmental standstill. Due to the propriety nature of the RIL files for this device, there is no way to make a true ROM for it other than "tweaking" the ones that Samsung deigns to release to Verizon.
One of the reasons Android has excelled in general is due to the open nature of the project. Manufacturers often chose to add a proprietary interface on these devices and, often as not, chose to release the files for continued development. That has not been the case with the Droid Charge.
There is still a thriving development and user community for the Droid Charge. Though the hardware is now two years old and outdated by today's newest devices, there are those of us who chose to continue to use it. Because of this, I am asking on behalf of that community and user base, that you use your authority to release those files for development. Due to the age of this hardware, it hardly seems their release will have any impact on the profits of your endeavors while certainly such release will go a long way toward feelings of good will toward the hardware your company produces.
Please consider this. Speaking for those of us who choose to use this device and others like it in the future, we would all appreciate it!
====================================================================================
We'll see what effect (most likely none, I know) that will have. Also sent a tweet with hashtag #SaveTheCharge to #Qualcomm as well.
I believe I have too much time on my hands today....

So what was the response from Sammy.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda premium

kvswim said:
So what was the response from Sammy.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
B**ch please! Lol. Jk.

Show us the email? Any news on it?
Sent from my SCH-I510 using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2
---------- Post added at 08:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 PM ----------
I tried calling Samsung once, and out of the five people i talked to none of them even knew what a ril was...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2

FYI the CDMA modem is from VIA and the LTE modem is from Samsung itself. I think that's where you should really be looking.

JihadSquad said:
FYI the CDMA modem is from VIA and the LTE modem is from Samsung itself. I think that's where you should really be looking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LTE tech is completely dominated and controled by Qualcomm. Everything made LTE related is under Qualcomm license, regardless of who makes the chip, because Qualcomm has some important patents in data and spectral efficiency that LTE will not work without. That's also the reason you don't see non-Qualcomm SoC LTE phones. Samsung holds a lot of LTE patents too, but they can't do it without the Qualcomm licenses.

shrike1978 said:
LTE tech is completely dominated and controled by Qualcomm. Everything made LTE related is under Qualcomm license, regardless of who makes the chip, because Qualcomm has some important patents in data and spectral efficiency that LTE will not work without. That's also the reason you don't see non-Qualcomm SoC LTE phones. Samsung holds a lot of LTE patents too, but they can't do it without the Qualcomm licenses.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the Exynos SoC in our phone and the GN2 is by Qualcomm then? Also the TI Omap in the Galaxy Nexus? Or is there more to it than just the cpu?

So why would Qualcomm, Samsung or any other money grubbing corporation release anything that will result is us not ultimately spending more of our money to upgrade to their latest and soon to be outdated product(s)? Talk about planned obsolescence!

And the winner is....
""
Na-darn-da
I've heard nothing from either Samsung or Qualcomm. Frustrating, but expected. Confirms my faith (or lack thereof) in the corporate clones who define my needs and what's good for me...
Hope I didn't raise anyone's expectations....

lazarus0000 said:
And the winner is....
""
Na-darn-da
I've heard nothing from either Samsung or Qualcomm. Frustrating, but expected. Confirms my faith (or lack thereof) in the corporate clones who define my needs and what's good for me...
Hope I didn't raise anyone's expectations....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I talked with Samsung a while back, it took some time but they finally responded. In the negative, but they responded...
Give it some time :fingers-crossed:

Can we just spam them with emails? Synonymous to them spamming us with no emails

Confirmed Oreo for P9

Danish news media today cited a Huawei source saying that the P9 will be updated to Android Oreo 8.0: https://m.weibo.cn/status/FFJfa03uP

Looks more like chinese than danish. Not sure what to believe now.
I can't read chinese, but i really want Oreo on my P9, even if it's the last i get before buying a new phone.
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miksork said:
Danish news media today cited a Huawei source saying that the P9 will be updated to Android Oreo 8.0: https://m.weibo.cn/status/FFJfa03uP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XDA published this article yesterday. https://www.xda-developers.com/huawei-emui-8-0-devices-android-oreo/

IMO we will get only "Oreo-based EMUI 8.0" - not Oreo update itself...

hapnik said:
IMO we will get only "Oreo-based EMUI 8.0" - not Oreo update itself...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what's wrong with Oreo-based EMUI 8.0? where do you know it's not oreo itself? are Oreo-based Android One or Oreo-based MIUI 10 not an oreo update too?

hapnik said:
IMO we will get only "Oreo-based EMUI 8.0" - not Oreo update itself...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another negative person.... you know everything i assume??? Do you have a source spying on the company im working for??? Dear Negative person. Now I am allowed to say that i already have in my hands an unpublished Pre-beta test Oreo version on my phone since i have a part i develop for the firmware in the country i live for. For a better and stable support for the mobile companies here and customize few things.
Dear negative person this forum was the beginning for many of us recognized or not developers to find a hobby that potentially could lead in a job. I am a good example my self. So i personally demand a bit of respect from users who are interested on customizing their mobile devices, but they do not have enough of knowledge or and experience. All these years (and that's my 3rd newest active account because i like to keep my developing clean so i can manage my requests) until i expand my knowledge i was reading and asking. Lots of questions, lots of annoyance towards other devs. I would suggest you to do the same if you are interested on developing so you will not have to wait for any Huawei to give you the experience you want on your device. Internet is a free exchange of ideas in the end of the day and that idea me and all of my generation fought so you will enjoy your right to share your opinions throughout the web.....but... Idea is not spreading inaccurate misinformation. Thats literally a crime and its punishable. I am telling you off for many reasons and because i am concerned especially with P9 since i am leading a dev project. P9 is an essential device with great characteristics that can compete all the devices in the market right now you like it or not, you admit it or not. Its underdeveloped yes. I agree! Like the rest of the mobile phones out there. The main reason is that you can not be a pioneer with the same speed as 15 years ago, since the technology moved fast and forward the last 15 years with no space for new ideas and pioneering. And then... financially crisis hits all over the world... Android is not an Iphone. Its not Apple. Android is FREE and once you have a free thing you have to pay for laws to be able to give it for free like the companies who dont give their operating systems for free. No android mobile company earns $$ from the operating system. Its is against the law to do it. All of the companies i worked in my past like Nokia, Sony, Google, etc etc are making their profits from the devices. in other words RETAIL SALES.
So now you can stop spreading your hate because you are disappointed from your device and rethink. Every action have a reaction. Thats the basic rule of engineering i learned in school. And its true that this law applies to real life.
Now back to the subject and to answer clearly your stupid comment so you will not mislead opinions.
You can not have Emui 8 without Oreo and vice versa. Its not just an APK based app. its a new customized framework which needs environment and code for Oreo to work. For an example you can not install Emui camera from any version to a google vanilla firmware and make it work without changing and codding things and support through kernel and OS the application. If the application needs Oreo based system simply it will crash and it will not work as it should. Thats all i have to say.
I hope you enjoy my way of talking.
PS: Its a phone and not a rocket yes? It does what they promised you it will do. Be glad and wait or move on to a "better supported device".
If you have demands of buying a new phone because the market is trying to grab more money out of your pockets by providing a new OS...then guess what.... you are a retail sales victim.
With love and respect
The Lecturer aka Vampirian

hapnik said:
IMO we will get only "Oreo-based EMUI 8.0" - not Oreo update itself...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My dear friend you can always buy "Oreo" from any market
Offtop*
Huawei got insiders? As I see you are members of Huawei "insider" @vampirian , can we join to beta test?

KinG5Pac said:
My dear friend you can always buy "Oreo" from any market
Offtop*
Huawei got insiders? As I see you are members of Huawei "insider" @vampirian , can we join to beta test?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can not call me an insider. I met through this forum many people and many devs who was working in much more famous mobile companies. Hell yes we even had official programmers for Microsoft, Sony, Samsung. XDA gave loads of knowledge to this industry. As for the beta test i will say Soon i assume the first version you could try in few weeks is the Chinese one since most of the complete parts are coming for porting and translating here. Which means whenever permissions will be allowed and made for public beta test. Unfortunately as for now is strictly for internal development purposes. I will repeat Its not "insiders". It is a part of our job to provide the best experience for our country. Finland is famous for many companies like Nokia (clearly Finnish company that creates from tires for cars, to space engineering technologies,lasers and back in time even mattresses ), Huawei EU departments (responsible for development and marketing around EU and passing to other companies for additional changes), Rovio (Angry birds ) etc etc and many other companies in general.
Time to rest a bit
GN

vampirian said:
Another negative person.... you know everything i assume??? Do you have a source spying on the company im working for??? Dear Negative person. Now I am allowed to say that i already have in my hands an unpublished Pre-beta test Oreo version on my phone since i have a part i develop for the firmware in the country i live for. For a better and stable support for the mobile companies here and customize few things.
Dear negative person this forum was the beginning for many of us recognized or not developers to find a hobby that potentially could lead in a job. I am a good example my self. So i personally demand a bit of respect from users who are interested on customizing their mobile devices, but they do not have enough of knowledge or and experience. All these years (and that's my 3rd newest active account because i like to keep my developing clean so i can manage my requests) until i expand my knowledge i was reading and asking. Lots of questions, lots of annoyance towards other devs. I would suggest you to do the same if you are interested on developing so you will not have to wait for any Huawei to give you the experience you want on your device. Internet is a free exchange of ideas in the end of the day and that idea me and all of my generation fought so you will enjoy your right to share your opinions throughout the web.....but... Idea is not spreading inaccurate misinformation. Thats literally a crime and its punishable. I am telling you off for many reasons and because i am concerned especially with P9 since i am leading a dev project. P9 is an essential device with great characteristics that can compete all the devices in the market right now you like it or not, you admit it or not. Its underdeveloped yes. I agree! Like the rest of the mobile phones out there. The main reason is that you can not be a pioneer with the same speed as 15 years ago, since the technology moved fast and forward the last 15 years with no space for new ideas and pioneering. And then... financially crisis hits all over the world... Android is not an Iphone. Its not Apple. Android is FREE and once you have a free thing you have to pay for laws to be able to give it for free like the companies who dont give their operating systems for free.
No android mobile company earns $$ from the operating system. Its is against the law to do it.
the companies i worked in my past like Nokia, Sony, Google, etc etc are making their profits from the devices. in other words RETAIL SALES.
So now you can stop spreading your hate because you are disappointed from your device and rethink. Every action have a reaction. Thats the basic rule of engineering i learned in school. And its true that this law applies to real life.
Now back to the subject and to answer clearly your stupid comment so you will not mislead opinions.
You can not have Emui 8 without Oreo and vice versa. Its not just an APK based app. its a new customized framework which needs environment and code for Oreo to work. For an example you can not install Emui camera from any version to a google vanilla firmware and make it work without changing and codding things and support through kernel and OS the application. If the application needs Oreo based system simply it will crash and it will not work as it should. Thats all i have to say.
I hope you enjoy my way of talking.
PS: Its a phone and not a rocket yes? It does what they promised you it will do. Be glad and wait or move on to a "better supported device".
If you have demands of buying a new phone because the market is trying to grab more money out of your pockets by providing a new OS...then guess what.... you are a retail sales victim.
With love and respect
The Lecturer aka Vampirian
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you're telling me there's a chance?
p.s. sorry couldn't resist

A Dutch source also confirmed the release of Oreo for the P9 and P9 plus. Release date yet unknown.
https://www.androidplanet.nl/nieuws/huawei-p9-android-8-0-update/
I hope this is true so my P9 will get it's last update.

vampirian said:
You can not call me an insider. I met through this forum many people and many devs who was working in much more famous mobile companies. Hell yes we even had official programmers for Microsoft, Sony, Samsung. XDA gave loads of knowledge to this industry. As for the beta test i will say Soon i assume the first version you could try in few weeks is the Chinese one since most of the complete parts are coming for porting and translating here. Which means whenever permissions will be allowed and made for public beta test. Unfortunately as for now is strictly for internal development purposes. I will repeat Its not "insiders". It is a part of our job to provide the best experience for our country. Finland is famous for many companies like Nokia (clearly Finnish company that creates from tires for cars, to space engineering technologies,lasers and back in time even mattresses ), Huawei EU departments (responsible for development and marketing around EU and passing to other companies for additional changes), Rovio (Angry birds ) etc etc and many other companies in general.
Time to rest a bit
GN
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, and what about rollback from Oreo to Nougat? It would be logical if rollback will be released earlier than Oreo-beta ?you agree with me?

luiszevs said:
Hi, and what about rollback from Oreo to Nougat? It would be logical if rollback will be released earlier than Oreo-beta ?you agree with me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that isnt how it works. marshmalow, nuget, before was nuget beta, only after some time relased rollback package. thats why its not recomended to play with beta

luiszevs said:
Hi, and what about rollback from Oreo to Nougat? It would be logical if rollback will be released earlier than Oreo-beta ?you agree with me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well obviously if not released at the same time. It will be i assume the same way when Nougat beta started.

Arnys said:
that isnt how it works. marshmalow, nuget, before was nuget beta, only after some time relased rollback package. thats why its not recomended to play with beta
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok,for example im testing oreo beta and during the testing process phone goes to the bootloop. what should i do in this case?

luiszevs said:
ok,for example im testing oreo beta and during the testing process phone goes to the bootloop. what should i do in this case?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Prey ahahaha
Nuh the beta goes for devs who know how to make an assessment, report etc etc. I wouldn't touch a beta if I wasn't sure of what I'm doing. Also its rare to release such files that will caused bootloop. Crashing yeap i get it very often but its too early to tell you anything more. With the files i have i dont get bootloop. There are issues with battery and overheating but thats all so far. But yeap to clarify... so far no issues of rolling back as well since I'm doing it daily

vampirian said:
Another negative person.... you know everything i assume??? Do you have a source spying on the company im working for??? Dear Negative person. Now I am allowed to say that i already have in my hands an unpublished Pre-beta test Oreo version on my phone since i have a part i develop for the firmware in the country i live for. For a better and stable support for the mobile companies here and customize few things.
Dear negative person this forum was the beginning for many of us recognized or not developers to find a hobby that potentially could lead in a job. I am a good example my self. So i personally demand a bit of respect from users who are interested on customizing their mobile devices, but they do not have enough of knowledge or and experience. All these years (and that's my 3rd newest active account because i like to keep my developing clean so i can manage my requests) until i expand my knowledge i was reading and asking. Lots of questions, lots of annoyance towards other devs. I would suggest you to do the same if you are interested on developing so you will not have to wait for any Huawei to give you the experience you want on your device. Internet is a free exchange of ideas in the end of the day and that idea me and all of my generation fought so you will enjoy your right to share your opinions throughout the web.....but... Idea is not spreading inaccurate misinformation. Thats literally a crime and its punishable. I am telling you off for many reasons and because i am concerned especially with P9 since i am leading a dev project. P9 is an essential device with great characteristics that can compete all the devices in the market right now you like it or not, you admit it or not. Its underdeveloped yes. I agree! Like the rest of the mobile phones out there. The main reason is that you can not be a pioneer with the same speed as 15 years ago, since the technology moved fast and forward the last 15 years with no space for new ideas and pioneering. And then... financially crisis hits all over the world... Android is not an Iphone. Its not Apple. Android is FREE and once you have a free thing you have to pay for laws to be able to give it for free like the companies who dont give their operating systems for free. No android mobile company earns $$ from the operating system. Its is against the law to do it. All of the companies i worked in my past like Nokia, Sony, Google, etc etc are making their profits from the devices. in other words RETAIL SALES.
So now you can stop spreading your hate because you are disappointed from your device and rethink. Every action have a reaction. Thats the basic rule of engineering i learned in school. And its true that this law applies to real life.
Now back to the subject and to answer clearly your stupid comment so you will not mislead opinions.
You can not have Emui 8 without Oreo and vice versa. Its not just an APK based app. its a new customized framework which needs environment and code for Oreo to work. For an example you can not install Emui camera from any version to a google vanilla firmware and make it work without changing and codding things and support through kernel and OS the application. If the application needs Oreo based system simply it will crash and it will not work as it should. Thats all i have to say.
I hope you enjoy my way of talking.
PS: Its a phone and not a rocket yes? It does what they promised you it will do. Be glad and wait or move on to a "better supported device".
If you have demands of buying a new phone because the market is trying to grab more money out of your pockets by providing a new OS...then guess what.... you are a retail sales victim.
With love and respect
The Lecturer aka Vampirian
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:good::good::good:Well said!
Bit brutal but so honest.
PS I was in HEL just one day ago
Cheers!

What about treble? Honor 8 pro and Honor 9 got it...

Good news about p9

vampirian said:
I wouldn't touch a beta if I wasn't sure of what I'm doing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not talking about myself, I can perfectly rebranding and flash any firmware, but nevertheless thanks for the answer, and ... welcome Oreo.

Cool stuff, i hope they take their time and release a bug free version. So glad i bought this device nearly two years ago and its still a very good smartphone that can even compete with more recent ones.