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Despite all apps/menus being fast, the Sensation 4G still feels sluggish due to a significant touchscreen input lag, also known as "touch lag" or "touchscreen latency". I see the same amount of lag with clean installs of stock GB 2.3.4 and ICS ARHD 6.6.1 /w overclock to 1.6Ghz.
This video/article (of a Galaxy SII) illustrates the problem.
Here is another video showing the effect that I'm talking about.
I've tried increasing/decreasing the "windowsmgr.max_events_per_sec" in build.props but that only affect smoothness, not overall lag or latency in following my finger. I've been using the free "Touch Test" app to compare different phones. The iPhone 4 and Galaxy S Blaze have MUCH less lag, and hence feel more responsive overall. The Blaze is an Android phone, so all of Android is not to blame (as the first video suggests).
Is there a hidden setting somewhere to help fix this or is the touch sensor in the Sensation just too slow? A fix for ARHD ICS would be ideal since I plan on running that.
UPDATE
I am a programmer but new to Android and mobile platforms. Assuming the touch screen is implemented as a polling input device, is a kernel hack that increases the polling rate possible? I am looking at the Sensation ICS kernel driver code, but I have no idea what I'm doing... Not even sure which driver's are applicable to the touchscreen yet...
Nvm, we need to decrease the touchscreen latency, polling rate won't affect that...
UPDATE
The following seem to have no effect on the touch lag:
Upgrading to ICS with ARHD 6.6.1 or Virtuos 4.0.1
Using Sebastian or faux123 kernels for ARHD
Overclocking up to 1.7Ghz
Using SuperCharger /w or w/o Nitro Lag Nullifier
Increasing/decreasing windowsmgr.max_events_per_sec in build.props
I have never experienced any lag at all with my phone running ARHD...
I cant recall seeing any threads regarding this either ??? Maybe its a hardware fault ?? If it is a really noticeable severe lag
azzledazzle said:
I cant recall seeing any threads regarding this either ???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This (old) thread mentions the Sensation. There are a couple threads around in other phone forums (SGS2 and DROIDX)
azzledazzle said:
Maybe its a hardware fault ?? If it is a really noticeable severe lag
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not "severe". I have 2 Sensations and both behave similarly. I'm new to Android so maybe its just something I'm not used to, but seeing as how the Galaxy Blaze 4G hardly has any, the Sensation seems slow by comparison.
Really it seems like there should be a (hidden) setting somewhere because the CPU isn't struggling in the slightest. If the touch digitizer is just slow though, then there is no hope...
Well certain kernels and tweak apps have lots of hidden features. GPU rendering and such.... I dont really understand what they all are because i dont have any issues, so i dont bother to learn about things that dont affect me lol
maybe you could try a custom kernel and install leedroid tweaks. ??
azzledazzle said:
maybe you could try a custom kernel and install leedroid tweaks. ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I'm in the process of just trying everything. I was hoping maybe someone knew something about it so that I could avoid the shotgun approach
Ideally the fix would be a setting at the firmware level. The lag is even apparent in 4EXT and CWM Touch for example. But I would gladly settle for a kernel level hack so I have fast touch when actually using my phone...
demonsavatar said:
Despite all apps/menus being fast, the Sensation 4G still feels sluggish due to a significant touchscreen input lag, also known as "touch lag" or "touchscreen latency". I see the same amount of lag with clean installs of stock GB 2.3.4 and ICS ARHD 6.6.1 /w overclock to 1.6Ghz.
This video/article (of a Galaxy SII) illustrates the problem.
I've tried increasing/decreasing the "windowsmgr.max_events_per_sec" in build.props but that only affect smoothness, not overall lag or latency in following my finger. I've been using the free "Touch Test" app to compare different phones. The iPhone 4 and Galaxy S Blaze have MUCH less lag, and hence feel more responsive overall.
Is there a hidden setting somewhere to help fix this or is the touch sensor in the Sensation just too slow? A fix for ARHD ICS would be ideal since I plan on running that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have the same lag i had the lag from gb rom and now on ics arhd i really hate it when you touch somewhere and it shows the touch later rather than picking it up straight away
Recommend v6 supercharger and nitro lag nullifier. Makes my 1.5GHz sensation feel like 1.8GHz!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=991276
sent from HTC Pyramid using Tapatalk
The easiest way to see the lag if you have an ICS rom installed is enable Settings->Developer Options->Show touches. Move your finger around on the screen and see how far back the dot trails your finger.
Shery4life said:
i have the same lag
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to know I'm not the only one. I think more people may have it, but they are used to it?!? If this could be fixed it would make the phone feel much faster. I actually played with a single-core lumia 710 windows phone and the touchscreen responds quite fast. Same thing with Iphone 4. This is part of how Microsoft/Nokia/Apple make their slow hardware feel fast.
stringer7 said:
Recommend v6 supercharger and nitro lag nullifier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tried these. Supercharger is also an option when installing ARHD, which I did choose. Nitro Lag Nullifier is a bunch of build.prop settings which didn't make a difference in the touch lag.
here watch this video
http://research.microsoft.com/apps/video/default.aspx?id=160670
and tell me in which latency htrc senastion falls
and also with you experience can you also tell which one iphhone 4 falls under
here what i think about all the andriod that they have latenc of 100 millisecond
and for iphone, ipad, and ipod have latency of 50 millisecond
and since i have used alot of andriod devices i think that some andriod devices have latency of 200 millisecond or more
but for iphone i think that there latency are 50millisecond
Shery4life said:
here watch this video
http://research.microsoft.com/apps/video/default.aspx?id=160670
and tell me in which latency htrc senastion falls
and also with you experience can you also tell which one iphhone 4 falls under
here what i think about all the andriod that they have latenc of 100 millisecond
and for iphone, ipad, and ipod have latency of 50 millisecond
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I saw that video. Not sure how fast they are moving their finger, but if we are talking in relative terms, the Sensation is definitely in the 100ms range, the Windows phone is somewhere between 100ms and 50ms. The iPhone and the Galaxy Blaze are around 50ms. Again, these are relative comparisons, the numbers dont mean much unless we know how fast he is moving his finger in the video.
The limit is clearly not the entire Android platform as the Galaxy S Blaze responds quickly.
I am looking through the kernel driver code to see if anything makes sense. I am a programmer but I've never touched Android or mobile platforms before, so I have no idea what I'm doing...
Any DEVs with kernel and driver experience care to join the discussion? I'm guessing the touch screen is implemented as a polling input device. If we can increase the polling rate, it may go faster. Of course, the hardware may impose some limit on that...
UPDATE: I just realized polling rate has nothing to do with it. It is just input latency. Harder problem to fix...might just be hardware limitation.
demonsavatar said:
Yeah I saw that video. Not sure how fast they are moving their finger, but if we are talking in relative terms, the Sensation is definitely in the 100ms range, the Windows phone is somewhere between 100ms and 50ms. The iPhone and the Galaxy Blaze are around 50ms. Again, these are relative comparisons, the numbers dont mean much unless we know how fast he is moving his finger in the video.
The limit is clearly not the entire Android platform as the Galaxy S Blaze responds quickly.
I am looking through the kernel driver code to see if anything makes sense. I am a programmer but I've never touched Android or mobile platforms before, so I have no idea what I'm doing...
Any DEVs with kernel and driver experience care to join the discussion? I'm guessing the touch screen is implemented as a polling input device. If we can increase the polling rate, it may go faster. Of course, the hardware may impose some limit on that...
UPDATE: I just realized polling rate has nothing to do with it. It is just input latency. Harder problem to fix...might just be hardware limitation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I live in UK and I don't think we have galaxy blaze in UK but then again I can be wrong
But like I said I have used iPhones iPod and iPad and the experience I had from these devices made me think that the latency is around 50 and my phone like sensation have 100 and I'm not sure if galaxy s2 have 100 or 50 latency but one thing I can say is that s2 is much more responsive than any other android I have used. But compare to iPhone I would say it is a bit laggy and I would put it around 75 and even 75 latency touch experience is still better than 100 I would love it manufacturer stay making new devices with 1 latency. But even if they bring out 10 latency I wouldn't mind but to keep the devices with 100 latency I think is bull**** and as a customer I will love a device with good touch experience.
Sent from my HTC Sensation using xda premium
demonsavatar said:
Yeah I saw that video. Not sure how fast they are moving their finger, but if we are talking in relative terms, the Sensation is definitely in the 100ms range, the Windows phone is somewhere between 100ms and 50ms. The iPhone and the Galaxy Blaze are around 50ms. Again, these are relative comparisons, the numbers dont mean much unless we know how fast he is moving his finger in the video.
The limit is clearly not the entire Android platform as the Galaxy S Blaze responds quickly.
I am looking through the kernel driver code to see if anything makes sense. I am a programmer but I've never touched Android or mobile platforms before, so I have no idea what I'm doing...
Any DEVs with kernel and driver experience care to join the discussion? I'm guessing the touch screen is implemented as a polling input device. If we can increase the polling rate, it may go faster. Of course, the hardware may impose some limit on that...
UPDATE: I just realized polling rate has nothing to do with it. It is just input latency. Harder problem to fix...might just be hardware limitation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but there isn't much discussion on the internet going on regarding this issue. I used to own a HTC Desire (Oxygen Rom 2.3) and recently upgraded to a Galaxy S3 (LTE) and the input latency is no different. I have also tested using hardware controllers via bluetooth such as Wiimotes and PS3 gamepads, same results on 2 very different devices.
I was planning on using my device for some emulation (SNES, etc) but the input latency makes platforming games unplayable. I've read that AMOLED screens are supposed to be as responsive (in both pixel reponse and input delay) as plasma screens, so I'm pretty sure that the screen hardware isn't at fault here. From the little information I have scrounged together from the internet, it is the Android OS and the way it is written. All devices, all applications.
When my HDMI adapter for my S3 arrives, I'm going to test using both the touch screen and a hardware gamepad on a screen I know to have negligible input lag.
Some people aren't sensitive to noticing input latency, but its very frustrating for people like me that do. I have a quad core in my pocket with 2GB ram and I'm dealing with 100ms+ input latency in everything I do, despite getting awesome buttery smooth frame rates.
iOS has Android beat in this area, and I'm yet to use one yet, but the Microsoft Surface is said to boast a 1-2ms delay on their touch input.
Knowing that my hardware is more than capable of great response makes me sad. But I have a feeling that rom nor kernel alone can fix this issue.
Hi guys,
Not sure it was there when I got my 32Gb Note 10.1 or not. I updated it to the latest software version early on. I don't have that many apps installed on it and only a couple of widgets on the desktop. The scroll stutters at times when I start scrolling: it starts off fine, then stutters for a short time, almost like a single hick up, and then continues just fine. It's doesn't happen 100% of the time but is more consistent as of late. I observed it going from screen to screen and in the main browsers scrolling through the page. I restarted the tab, closed running apps/services, which made no difference.
Has anyone noticed anything similar to that? Does that sound like a normal behavior? Have had a few Android phones before but this is my 1st Android tab so not sure what level of performance I should expect. Thanks!
Have not experienced any stuttering. The only time I have noticed the SGN10.1 stuttering is when drawing shapes in s.note. then it can get a little bogged down.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2
Try going to settings, developer, and under window and transition animations. Try setting to.5 or zero.
That should fix it.
I was using HD Widgets and had a 8x1 clock/weather widget on my first home page. I was playing with the stock clock/weather widget and by removing the HD Widget's clock the stuttering improved a lot. I'm still using it for some toggles and that seems fine. If anyone is using HD Widgets you can remove the widgets you're not actively using and that seems to speed things up too.
i have a 3 day old 16gb wifi gnote. my experience with stuttering has been unmistakable in 2 places: general system animations (moving between screens or opening settings for example) and a laggy stock browser.
when i swipe home screens, i get similar stutters as the OP. so i went ahead and cleaned up all the stock (bloatware) widgets... hardly a solution but i hope it isnt a problem when i do install useful widgets soon.. someone suggested reducing animations to 0.5x or 0. well thats really sad for a higher end tablet i think. similar stuttering scrolls in gmail and play store.
with the browser, i usually get stutters when scrolling a fairly heavy page. the most annoying thing is that if there are many images on a page, the browser blanks them out when scrolling and then redraws them at the end of scrolling! so i simply installed chrome instead... and thats working better
i also tried this game called wind up knight just to see some 3d action... there too the stutter was quite obvious.
im not blown away by the quad core awesomeness out-of-the-box i must say. i think my 2 year old HTC HD2 (1ghz single core) is generally faster at running ics. i hope custom roms are able to better harness the hardware...
forgot to mention that i am running the old UEALGB rom
tonyz3 said:
Try going to settings, developer, and under window and transition animations. Try setting to.5 or zero.
That should fix it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what exactly does this do?
I am on my second g note. Got rid of the 16 GBP for the 32. The only thing I have done on both was got rid of the widgets it came in stalled with and adj the settings and it flies like butter.
Someone else mentioned the power saver mode. Check that it is not on.
tonyz3 said:
I am on my second g note. Got rid of the 16 GBP for the 32. The only thing I have done on both was got rid of the widgets it came in stalled with and adj the settings and it flies like butter.
Someone else mentioned the power saver mode. Check that it is not on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No power savings mode. I suspect some of you just not noticing it. I do have an eye for those kind of things though.
i didnt have my power saving mode on... the problem became extremely irritating with that feature on...
however i did restart my tablet and that did solve almost all my worries! i too now have a "buttery smooth" tablet before restart, my ram usage was around 1.4gb and i suspect around 70+ active apps in memory. after restart, my ram usage was 0.4gb and all the lags and stutters went away! so one possible solution could be for you to go to task manager and clean out active apps from memory. then check if there is any stutter in general usage. hope this helps!
ps: i did clean out all my home screen bloat widgets. so i really cant say how smoothly they will scroll after cleaning out the ram.
SM05 said:
No power savings mode. I suspect some of you just not noticing it. I do have an eye for those kind of things though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think anyone who comes to this site for info knows what lag is and looks like.:cyclops:
Not denying that there are some defective units, as with any thing to buy there will be some.
We are just trying to offer solutions.
tonyz3 said:
I think anyone who comes to this site for info knows what lag is and looks like.:cyclops:
Not denying that there are some defective units, as with any thing to buy there will be some.
We are just trying to offer solutions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, didn't mean to imply anything. I do appreciate all the help and feedback from all xda members.
I was just basically reflecting on my nature and the fact that I do tend to concentrate on details sometimes. So, my point was that there may or may not be lag there and perhaps I'm just "seeing" things. I have a good eye for these things in general, so assuming lag or more like stutter is there, the next question is whether that's something particular to my tab or others are seeing it too. If later is the case than it could be software and/or hardware issue. I thought the specs this thing packing it should have no problems scrolling silky smooth. Don't wanna jump to any conclusions just yet though...
Tried reducing animation scale but it made little difference. Wondering, just for comparison, has anyone seen Note 10.1 scrolling videos posted out there?
Thanks!
I agree it does stutter slightly. If you are reading an article and are scrolling down as you read, its not smooth. Hopefully they will fix it.
Sparksltd said:
I agree it does stutter slightly. If you are reading an article and are scrolling down as you read, its not smooth. Hopefully they will fix it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for sharing! Anybody else ran into this as well?
Actually, now that you mention it...
When i first received the tablet, i noticed the lag swiping from screen to screen. I shut it off after about 15 minutes, to charge the battery faster when the unit is off. After rebooting, i noticed it seemed to go much faster....
Also, after installing the update (which may or may not be available anymore) my overall smoothness went up about 100%, something i noticed immediately.
Doesn't stutter for me anymore, unless i have power saver mode on and really pushing it. Asphalt 7 (looks somewhat hi-tech 3d graphics, maybe not) runs exceptionally well, so i am not sure i'm getting the lag anymore. Maybe this is what some of the reviewers saw at first, while doing their first 15 minute review?
I can't complain anymore because it seems to be fine on mine, with the exception of this XDA app
Sent from my GT-N8013 using xda app-developers app
SM05 said:
Sorry, didn't mean to imply anything. I do appreciate all the help and feedback from all xda members.
I was just basically reflecting on my nature and the fact that I do tend to concentrate on details sometimes. So, my point was that there may or may not be lag there and perhaps I'm just "seeing" things. I have a good eye for these things in general, so assuming lag or more like stutter is there, the next question is whether that's something particular to my tab or others are seeing it too. If later is the case than it could be software and/or hardware issue. I thought the specs this thing packing it should have no problems scrolling silky smooth. Don't wanna jump to any conclusions just yet though...
Tried reducing animation scale but it made little difference. Wondering, just for comparison, has anyone seen Note 10.1 scrolling videos posted out there?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once the jelly bean update finally comes around I am sure it will get smoother.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Trying to get a sense if this is a widespread issue with almost every GNote or with just a small number of tabs. If first is the case then it can probably/likely be addressed via some software update. But if it's a later case then exchange is in order. I have no way of reliably validating it so I'll probably gonna go for an exchange early next week.
Anyone has some Samsung feedback linky handy, other than FB, by any chance? Thanks.
Not to hijack my one thread... but I have a new problem develop last night: some parts of the screen, left side in particular, in the standard browser weren't responding to touch/clicks. Tried clearing out all apps, restarting the browser, etc. Didn't help much. Seems to be better. Not sure what's going on.
Good Morning all.
I bought the TF700 to try gaming on a full HD tregra 3 device, and what better tablet than this one. I knew ahead of time that the resolution and dpi was going to pull gaming down a bit.
I downloaded Horn yesterday and played a few hours, and overall the game is great, but it lags noticeably. In many places the fps look very low and goes beyond my confort. I mainly use this tablet to read and its my overall media device.
What do you guys think. Is there anything I can do to improve gaming? I'm a bit jealous because the nexus 7 and HOX guys are all saying how good it is in their devices. But I really like this tablet and want to keep it.
Any input would be great guys, thaks.
PS. I'm full stock, havent messed with it yet.
rcarbal said:
Good Morning all.
I bought the TF700 to try gaming on a full HD tregra 3 device, and what better tablet than this one. I knew ahead of time that the resolution and dpi was going to pull gaming down a bit.
I downloaded Horn yesterday and played a few hours, and overall the game is great, but it lags noticeably. In many places the fps look very low and goes beyond my confort. I mainly use this tablet to read and its my overall media device.
What do you guys think. Is there anything I can do to improve gaming? I'm a bit jealous because the nexus 7 and HOX guys are all saying how good it is in their devices. But I really like this tablet and want to keep it.
Any input would be great guys, thaks.
PS. I'm full stock, havent messed with it yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try rooting and debloating...
... we will need to get more custom ROM work going, ASUS stock is just a mish-mosh of dirty hax and yucky code.
rcarbal said:
Good Morning all.
I bought the TF700 to try gaming on a full HD tregra 3 device, and what better tablet than this one. I knew ahead of time that the resolution and dpi was going to pull gaming down a bit.
I downloaded Horn yesterday and played a few hours, and overall the game is great, but it lags noticeably. In many places the fps look very low and goes beyond my confort. I mainly use this tablet to read and its my overall media device.
What do you guys think. Is there anything I can do to improve gaming? I'm a bit jealous because the nexus 7 and HOX guys are all saying how good it is in their devices. But I really like this tablet and want to keep it.
Any input would be great guys, thaks.
PS. I'm full stock, havent messed with it yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about that game at all. You could try force 2d rendering in the developers section of settings. May help with lag, other than trying performance setting.
lovekeiiy said:
I don't know about that game at all. You could try force 2d rendering in the developers section of settings. May help with lag, other than trying performance setting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It just came out yesterday, but it has not settings I can play with. Will sit tight for a while and see how far we can take this tablet. I will try root and debloat and go from there.
You can also install a program that allows you to change the cpu governor like SetCPU. When I have plenty of power I set it to performance for a smoother experience. Once we have an overclockable kernel I suspect this device will fly even moreso. They were able to get the T30L to 2 Ghz, our T33 might be pushed further than that
Plz dont trick people if you dont know.
Tegra3 's GPU is not powerful enough(only 12 cuba units......too weak...), in other words, Horn 's graph is the best we can have. Laggy is not a problem beccause of 1080p res.
There's nothing else we can do ,(BTW, overclocking is not working here)
We can wait for the next version of Horn which may lower some physic and shadow effects to improve the performance.
Are you sure your tablet is running in "performance" mode rather than the "balance" mode that it starts in on bootup?
I ran the game for hours flawlessly ...
I restarted it many times and it always boots in balance. I will try to chane it to boot in performance mode. Im sure theres and option for this. I'll update if all the above help.
oh, I always kill all tasks before palying high graphics games using asus task manager.
Thanks
Yea i get this lag too with the game. I used system tuner pro to set the CPUs to a solid 1.6 and still saw the lag or FPS drop.
So I purchased the game also, and the game would start to load and then music would play with a blank screen, then cut out.... anyone else having this problem???
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using xda app-developers app
Is this game optimized for the screen resolution of the TF700? Anyone own a prime still that can compare how it runs on both systems? The extra resolution might be enough to cause some playing issues. Maybe the same issues are present in the lower resolution devices but it's harder to notice.
i will also test this game out with the tf300 my brother has. I want to know if tf700 can play it better because...ahem.. the devs of horn told ipad 2s and 3 people . "it's much easier on the tegra... nvidia really knows their physics.." and basically no can do, when they raged about tegra effects. So I wanted to know how this tablet would handle it. SO, ill keep trying.
Undoubtedly this is the hottest topic on this forum (so it seems). Based on what I have seen, there has been no convincing proof on either way. The benchmarks score comparison are great, but my belief is it may not reflect day to day experience as most of time you never push the system to its max.
So my hypothesis is Transformer Infintiy's I/O issue related user experience can be fixed by software even if the underlying issue had been hardware related.
Since some people believes the opposite, and this is infinity forum. I wanted to make myself right for the sake of infinity owners. But given no previous good convincing test, I have decided to test one thing.
First video
This is one example video that Anandtech showed back in July that Infinity is indeed experiencing I/O issue. This video simply proved that while I/O is in use, the whole system slowed down. Based on the date of this post, which is 7/26/2012, I am assuming the firmware used was V9.4.5.22.
Second video
The credit of this video goes to BarryH. The reason why I included this is Galaxy note 10.1, which I owned for 3 weeks should be used as gold standard in this comparison as it is perhaps the only worth mentioning competition of TF700T and it is really great tablet of its own. You can clearly see that the downloading file in background really had no effect at all on the Galaxy Note 10.1.
Third video
The above is my very first Youtube video ever. But that's not a point. This is running stock ROM, rooted. No build prop tweaks. The only special thing I have installed here is Browser2Ram. So for this basically, I used AirDroid (WIFI file transfer application) and transferred 1G+ file over my network. While doing so, I basically opened browser, and went to the same site as Galaxy note 10.1 did in above. The little delay after opening browser is not hang in browser, but simply I forgot to set to landscape mode.
Conclusion: Based on these I believe I can conclude followings:
Compare first to third. Infinity had already significantly improved its I/O performance. How did it do? Clearly not by changing hardware, but rather software. So this proves my hypothesis of software can indeed fix I/O issue that user actually see.
*Please note that since I have browser2ram installed, this may be different for pure stock user experience. And Zeus users may even have better experience than me.
Special thanks goes to BarryH_GEG. Without him posting first two youtube clips I wouldn't have actually realized that Infinity's I/O issue had already been nearly completely fixed on my unit.
.
For clarification, basically all I am doing here is that there is indeed a way that what we call IO issue that can be alleviated by software modification. So if anyone state its all hardware and can never be fixed/improved, that is incorrect statement. However, this does not prove stock Infinity in the future will receive such update. So you can have a hope, but hope has no guarantee.
Different people use device differently so I say try the device and update to the latest firmware and see if you still face the IO issue that is significant enough for you. I can say that it is definitely not as bad as first video show. Whether you can tolerate the IO lag or not is simply your personal preference. In the end, all devices have lag to certain degree when stressed. Even PS3, Xbox 360, or high end PC games gets frame drops when you stress them. The question is whether you care, and whether you push to the limit.
If I ever get chance, I will try to turn off Browser2Ram and try do the same test again and see what the true stock experience is, though I am certain it is not as bad as Anandtech video.
Update 9/24/2012
Since some people are pointing to the issue resolution is purely due to Browser2Ram, I did same test with this time while AirDroid transferring 1.1 GB file over the WIFI, I launched Final Fantasy 3. No lag even while launching. Everything is smooth. However, if I launch Horn instead of FF3, I did notice significantly longer time to load. So this is simply proving what I have said. We can fix issue to certain degree but whether the certain degree is enough for a specific user is really dependent. I am ok not being able to play Horn while I am transferring 1GB data, but some may not.
Of course Browser2RAM will help on this, you're caching to just RAM instead of the stupidly slow NAND memory Asus decided to put in their flagship device. Try the same "test" on complete stock and you'll see that it's a vastly different experience.
Zeus ROM works around the I/O issue by reducing or even eliminating SQLite fsyncs. Risky business for your data, good for performance. I like my data without corruption, so I'll pass, but others may not see it that way. They simply want the performance this tablet should have had in the first place.
Asus did reduce the overall sluggishness slightly with the .26 update that changed from NOOP scheduler to CFQ in the kernel, but the tablet still stutters. Browsing is far from smooth, even with alternative browsers like Dolphin HD. Performance is decent right after a reboot, but once memory fills up and Android starts its memory management and closing down processes (doing a lot of fsyncs in the process) it grinds to a halt. This wouldn't be a problem if flash I/O performance was higher.
The CM-based ROMs starting to pop up for the TF700 seems to help on the performance as well, and that's still with the 2.6.39.4-based kernel. CM's always been smoother than pretty much any stock device in my experience though, so no surprise there. They can never completely get rid of it though, since it's a hardware issue. Asus were stupid and chose cheap, slow NAND that gets totally crippled if you're doing random writes. There's no magic software to just fix it.
I'm sorry, but I don't really see anything new here, and your "evidence" isn't really that, simply because you're not running stock. You're using Browser2RAM which greatly increases browsing performance by using RAM, which is several magnitudes faster than NAND flash. It's not even comparable. The TF700 (and TF201 and TF300 and TF101) I/O issue can never be completely fixed in software, only (slightly) improved, often at the cost of data safety (disable SQLite fsyncs or available RAM (Browser2RAM).
It's all well-known by now that Asus ****ed up (again!). If it weren't for the oh-so-sweet high resolution display and keyboard dock I'd get a different tablet.
Einride said:
I'm sorry, but I don't really see anything new here, and your "evidence" isn't really that, simply because you're not running stock. You're using Browser2RAM which greatly increases browsing performance by using RAM, which is several magnitudes faster than NAND flash. It's not even comparable. The TF700 (and TF201 and TF300 and TF101) I/O issue can never be completely fixed in software, only (slightly) improved, often at the cost of data safety (disable SQLite fsyncs or available RAM (Browser2RAM).
It's all well-known by now that Asus ****ed up (again!). If it weren't for the oh-so-sweet high resolution display and keyboard dock I'd get a different tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Einride,
Sorry if I directed you wrong way. But my point here is not to prove stock has already fixed issue or not even to say IO issue can be completely fixed. The latter is simply unknown. But I am just proving here that there are ways software can make difference in user front, which some people questions.
To be honest, how do you even know RAM is not bottle neck? What about GPU, which is far inferior to the new Ipad in fact its even worth than iPad 2 by far margin? We see a number, and see its less than others so concluded its the conundrum, which could be true by good chance but not a proof.
Here I am basically proved whatever the method is, there is a way to improve what people call IO issue can be alleviated by software approach.
Because Anandtech showed IO issue originally on infinity stating background 2MBps download resulted in marked degradation in browser performance. I basically had 1GB file transfer over WIFI using Airdroid.
So I basically proved here that my infinity, which clearly has not touched anything on hardwarewise, but have improved performance since Anandtech review.
As for Zeus fsync, I don't use Zeus so cannot speak for it. But if they turn off fsync and still keep the system stable without data loss, why would you care?
Having said all this, I don't know if ASUS will ever put effort in fixing issue because if they would why won't they simply install browser2ram as part of their firmware? But they are doing something as I noticed they took out pixit from background with latest firmware, which kept running in background for no reason..
Einride is on target. This is a hardware issue, so any "fix" is going to be a kludge and come with a bunch of compromise. I can't believe ASUS specced the same crazy slow flash on the 700 that they did the 201/300.
FWIW, The best/cleverest hack I have seen is the TF201 dev who has been playing with remounting the internal SD card to point at the removable microSD card. If this can be made to work smoothly, it means that if you have an external card that is specced much higher than the stock internal flash you could eliminate the issue completely.
But of course that is really hacky. It's one of those you could brick if you don't install it right kind of deals so I don't ever see it being a mainstream options for these tabs unless ASUS productized it which would be a big expense in support for them, so, again, it'll never happen.
I've got to push back a bit. I think this is firmware related, but not of the device of individual components. I think this can be fixed with "software"
tf201 said:
I've got to push back a bit. I think this is firmware related, but not of the device of individual components. I think this can be fixed with "software"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can continue thinking that if it makes you feel better. I like and enjoy my Infinity but as a digital design engineer, to me this seems to clearly be a design issue @ the hardware level and will always limit the overall system to some degree. There are hard limits in any hardware software system. <Shrug>
My best advice to an end user is what I would give for any device issue: to decide whether it is a deal breaker for you *as it stands right now* and not sit around and wait for or bank on some kludgy cure that may be worse than the disease.
It's not too bad for me, I don't do tons of random I/O or web browsing. In fact, I'd say it would have taken me a long time to notice this on my own without the benchmarking and threads here... If it was unacceptable I would cut my losses and sell the tab and get a different device. Life is short, guys.
zenaxe said:
Einride is on target. This is a hardware issue, so any "fix" is going to be a kludge and come with a bunch of compromise. I can't believe ASUS specced the same crazy slow flash on the 700 that they did the 201/300.
FWIW, The best/cleverest hack I have seen is the TF201 dev who has been playing with remounting the internal SD card to point at the removable microSD card. If this can be made to work smoothly, it means that if you have an external card that is specced much higher than the stock internal flash you could eliminate the issue completely.
But of course that is really hacky. It's one of those you could brick if you don't install it right kind of deals so I don't ever see it being a mainstream options for these tabs unless ASUS productized it which would be a big expense in support for them, so, again, it'll never happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, again (and I now added to opening post) my point is not denying IO hardware issue existence. I am just simply providing proof here that it can be improved by software (to certain degree). Whether it is to the extent of users complete satisfaction would be different issue. However, to be honest, if you see my video and it was original retail packaged Infinity fully on stock and from the day 1 performance, don't you think less people would raise a voice? It's because software workaround can change what you see as user, and that's all I am proving here. So yes. this should give a hope to someone who thought, it's hardware related so never can be fixed. However, this does not confirm or deny ASUS to take a step and fix this because I am sure it will take some effort on their part, which clearly they have not spent so far if this had been a problem existed since TF201.
To put into extreme, they can modify OS such that all front end basic programs such as stock browser, movie player or whatever to actually run on RAM if that is what makes the difference. But would they do it? Absolute not, because they won't spend money on such big project for device that had already sold well and gained essentially best Android tablet metacritic reviews (I did not take actual poll but just following Infinity news daily, it seems like pretty much most site gives the highest score for android tablet).
So yup. I don't disagree with you guys that IO issue there. But my point here was to help people clarify that there are indeed ways to make better by software. Whether happens or not is out of my control and would simply be guess for anyone.
I'm not just a noob either. Here's why I think this is software related:
1) The performance is so bad that it precludes just the hardware. Maybe the hardware sucks but there is alot of performance lost somewhere cheap NAND from 2 years ago outperforms SQLite operations by >10x.
2) Performance seems to degrade with time. This is indictive of a wear leveling and writing algorithm which may or may not be able to be adjusted with firmware.
3) SQLite fsync performance appears to be tied to T3 frequency, that suggest there is something with the T3 drivers that could be tweaked vs NAND hardware limitations.
4)...
I'll also mention the OP is right. ASUS could do things with caching data before writing, and writing in chunks the NAND is best with limiting Virtual Ram etc.
HoushaSen said:
Hi Einride,
Sorry if I directed you wrong way. But my point here is not to prove stock has already fixed issue or not even to say IO issue can be completely fixed. The latter is simply unknown. But I am just proving here that there are ways software can make difference in user front, which some people questions.
To be honest, how do you even know RAM is not bottle neck? What about GPU, which is far inferior to the new Ipad in fact its even worth than iPad 2 by far margin? We see a number, and see its less than others so concluded its the conundrum, which could be true by good chance but not a proof.
Here I am basically proved whatever the method is, there is a way to improve what people call IO issue can be alleviated by software approach.
Because Anandtech showed IO issue originally on infinity stating background 2MBps download resulted in marked degradation in browser performance. I basically had 1GB file transfer over WIFI using Airdroid.
So I basically proved here that my infinity, which clearly has not touched anything on hardwarewise, but have improved performance since Anandtech review.
As for Zeus fsync, I don't use Zeus so cannot speak for it. But if they turn off fsync and still keep the system stable without data loss, why would you care?
Having said all this, I don't know if ASUS will ever put effort in fixing issue because if they would why won't they simply install browser2ram as part of their firmware? But they are doing something as I noticed they took out pixit from background with latest firmware, which kept running in background for no reason..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No misleading here, don't worry
You are just describing software workarounds, though. None of which can permanently fix it entirely since it's a hardware limitation.
A proper "fix" would greatly increase I/O performance with no downsides. Browser2ram helps browsing, nothing else. Disabling SQLite fsyncs increases risk of data corruption or data loss at the cost of better overall performance.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
tf201 said:
I'm not just a noob either. Here's why I think this is software related:
1) The performance is so bad that it precludes just the hardware. Maybe the hardware sucks but there is alot of performance lost somewhere cheap NAND from 2 years ago outperforms SQLite operations by >10x.
2) Performance seems to degrade with time. This is indictive of a wear leveling and writing algorithm which may or may not be able to be adjusted with firmware.
3) SQLite fsync performance appears to be tied to T3 frequency, that suggest there is something with the T3 drivers that could be tweaked vs NAND hardware limitations.
4)...
I'll also mention the OP is right. ASUS could do things with caching data before writing, and writing in chunks the NAND is best with limiting Virtual Ram etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that they can probably make improvements with these kind of tweaks. The extent of the fix will always be limited by the low spec hardware in the end, though. So, I wouldn't encourage people to expect ginormous strides. For the most part, I expect more of the same with some evolutionary improvements but I doubt they will ever make a quantum leap. I would be angry if they made it worse but I'm an optimist at heart so I at least expect some slow improvement over time.
IMHO, as it stands it is usable and I'm hoping they can take it to "decent" (say the level pepole are seeing in Zeus). But to folks who are banging their heads against this constantly and unsatisfied as a result, I would still say there will be no true fix and you should bail on this device. It's a personal choice.
If you are willing to forgo your warrantly, I guess you could demo one of the custom ROMs. That probably shows you the extent of a software fix. But beware some of those fixes (cached writes) do put data integrity at risk. There is always a trade off.
Einride said:
Disabling SQLite fsyncs increases risk of data corruption or data loss at the cost of better overall performance.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I understand the fsync thing correctly it can only cause issues if the device suddenly powers off, correct? While that may be a risk, it's a *very* small risk and well worth the performance improvement, in my opinion... I've used ROMs that disable fsync for quite some time and have never had a single issue...
I tend to go by real-world results instead of "theory"...
Same thing with "browser2ram" - it can only cause an issue if the device suddenly powers off and even then - so you lose some web cache data - so what?? Who cares if you lose your browser cache - it's just a browser cache!
Besides, if your device is powering off suddenly, you have much bigger problems than worrying about your cached web data!
I truly agree with the OP. People get so caught up on benchmarks and "what could happen" (even though in practice, it really doesn't)... Truth is, we all just want a better end-user experience - if they can "work around" hardware limitations via software then it makes sense to do that.
Obviously, the hardware isn't going to change, so complaining about that will never help whereas implementing software tweaks to work-around these hardware limitations *does* actually help...
Just my two cents!
By the way, I've been *very* happy with the performance of my TF700 since installing the Zeus ROM - another perfect of example of someone using software to get around the hardware limitations - and it works very well! Another example of "real world" results - that's all of the evidence that I need!
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
Unfortunately random reboots are not simply theory in case of the Infinity, especially if you're doing some memory-aggravating stuff on yours. I'm getting one every few days.
d14b0ll0s said:
Unfortunately random reboots are not simply theory in case of the Infinity, especially if you're doing some memory-aggravating stuff on yours. I'm getting one every few days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I agree that random reboots are not simply theory, what does that have to do with what we are talking about here?
However, since you brought it up, I've personally never had a single random reboot on my TF700, which may be yet another example that most of this stuff can be fixed by software (since that does not occur on Zeus ROM)... So that just goes further to illustrate my point. I'm assuming that you are not running Zeus?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
jtrosky said:
another example that most of this stuff can be fixed by software (since that does not occur on Zeus ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is from the Quadrant thread. The rest of the conversation describing what SQLite is and the role it plays in overall IO performance is in that thread. All Zeus' ROM does is tweak the SQLite settings and if you read more in the other thread you'll understand why that plays a relatively minor role in overall IO performance. Bottom line is whether or not someone has memory and/or IO issues is more determined by what they do with their device than the s/w running on it. Which is why some people running stock are perfectly content while others are pulling their hair out.
P.S. - Sorry HoushaSen, the lack of information on what SQLite is and the obsession with Quadrant brought me back in to the discussion.
BarryH_GEG said:
To show you what Zeus' impact is, here's a comparison to a Note and TF300 on JB. Red is perecent slower than the Note, green faster. After tweaking SQLite, the remainder of the TF700's IO scores remain significantly below that of the Note (or SGS3 or One X) and some are worse than stock. If you use the TF300 on JB as a proxy for how the TF700 would perform after the update the column on the far right shows the difference between the two.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait until you see Zeus on Jelly Been. It's going to be so smooth and snappy and you will never think about I/O issue again!!!!
BarryH_GEG said:
This is from the Quadrant thread. The rest of the conversation describing what SQLite is and the role it plays in overall IO performance is in that thread. All Zeus' ROM does is tweak the SQLite settings and if you read more in the other thread you'll understand why that plays a relatively minor role in overall IO performance. Bottom line is whether or not someone has memory and/or IO issues is more determined by what they do with their device than the s/w running on it. Which is why some people running stock are perfectly content while others are pulling their hair out.
P.S. - Sorry HoushaSen, the lack of information on what SQLite is and the obsession with Quadrant brought me back in to the discussion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem. In the end this is still gray zone that (at least in my opinion) nobody knows what the end result is, and I think you stated well. It's really depends on user experience.
For those missed my last couple line update on opening thread. I actually had 1.1GB file download going on my infinity, and launched FF3 game, which was a breeze. No lag. So IO issue had been fixed partly from original already (assuming IO was really poor from get go, but I cannot confirm this because I do not have original firmware, and did not play FF3 when I had one). But I definitely noticed significantly far less ANR, which was one major reason I originally returned my infinity and hesitant to come back from Galaxy Note 10.1. However, if I launch Horn instead of FF3, it takes forever and even got ANR, which I hadn't seen for a while on my Infinity. Whether this is related IO or memory cap of 1GB or some other internal limitation is unknown, but since all I had was AirDroid transferring file and Horn is only other thing running, I am assuming 1GB is sufficient; hence, most likely related to IO issue. But having said this, how many would really complain about this? Not sure. Because even on my PC (which is not that high end) but I can basically get same issue. If I encode video and try to run high graphic PC game, the machine stalls, and even gives freeze. Would everyone complain about this? Some would and say that's why you get better PC. The other accepts it is what is, and simply don't encode, and play high end game at same time.
I am pretty satisfied with Infinity as all the concern I had before coming back to Infinity from Note seemed to be solved (at least for me) and got back to Full HD screen; however, there are clearly still people out there concerned of IO performance thus the topic continues to arise. Once everyone gets satisfactory IO result, I believe we will see significantly less discussion about this (if ever happens).
The fact we know are:
1. IO hardware on Infinity is last generation and not as fast as main stream current generation expensive tablets.
2. Software can change what user see (whole point my this particular thread)
Fact nobody knows
1. Degree of how much software can change user experience. Whether enough to completely hide relatively poor performance of underlying IO hardware. Or opposite extreme is basically just soften up a little without true effect on most users.
2. Whether ASUS will even try fixing it.
Benchmark number is great to assess, but I really don't think that's what users are really interested unless someone who just want to say "hey my benchmark score is high!" If this is the case, nobody probably would ever get Apple because they are usually not after benchmark of individual component but rather they use decent hardware, minimize bottleneck by deciding all the hardware on their own, and write optimized OS. But individual pieces are not cutting edge for its price.
And in all honest, I am a bit lost at this point after writing this thread, what is it exactly that we are calling IO issue? Browser2Ram improved my browser speed but even Final Fantasy 3 runs fine from launch while I download a big file at its maximum speed. So I don't think it's browser2ram that did trick here, but rather ASUS already fixed IO issue for downloading file completely hogs the system. If the issue is slow stock browser, that may not be IO related. It may simply be ASUS did not optimize the stock browser. Maybe my system runs so well because I have turned all the bloatware off and many stock user aren't?
I don't see Browser2ram in the store. Got a link?
Sent from my Rooted TF700T
i wish i saw this thread before i bought my Infinity + screen protector + case.
hope that JB will help with some of this, but i didn't realize it was just cheap-ass NAND.
ugh.
xPSYCHOTRONx said:
I don't see Browser2ram in the store. Got a link?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://mark-tech.blogspot.com/2012/06/browser2ram-fixes-transformer-prime.html
Hey guys, I just received my Pipo M6 today so I thought I'd offer my experience so far. Keep in mind that I am coming from an iPad mini and my daily driver is a HTC One X running Cyanogenmod 10.1.
Build Quality:
TBH, I was hoping for something a little better after reading some user reviews. It's still quite good overall but there's just a few too many seams and the edges are a little rough at certain points. Nothing major but it just feels like a made and designed in China product. It doesn't bother me so much though since I won't notice it after putting it in a case.
I was glad to find that underneath the temporary screen protector which comes with all new products these days, there was another one underneath it which means you won't need to bother with putting on one yourself.
Screen:
VERY pretty. Viewing angles are good and colours really pop. Brightness level is amazing and will surely be sufficient even if you are in the dessert. In terms of resolution, you can set it to HD mode or Normal which requires a restart. I couldn't really notice any differences although I might if I had another one sitting side by side. Only thing is, I used both AnTuTu and Android System Info to find out the resolution and there seem to be some discrepancies.
Under HD Mode, both apps reported a resolution of 1536x1952 with 320dpi. Now that's still within Retina level territory but they were advertising 2048x1536. Not a huge difference I know but still a little annoying.
At Normal Mode, AnTuTu reported 1600x1128 and Android System info reported 1200x1528. Not sure why the two differed but the difference is negligible when you do the math.
User Interface:
As you may know, you have the choice of using the standard Jelly Bean interface or the special Pipo interface which makes everything look a bit like Windows 8. I chose to go with the latter. Everything is quite smooth although perhaps not quite as flawless as my iPad mini but with Android devices, I've come to accept that.
I really like where they're going with this interface although there are some definite rough edges. It comes preloaded with 5 home screens labeled: Home, Media, Apps, Office and Web. These can not be removed. Within each, there are some widgets which corresponds to their respective headings. These widgets cannot be changed or removed. The other objects that cannot be changed or removed are the boxes ala Windows 8 which are predetermined to be either editable shortcuts or folders. I find this a bit annoying because sometimes I don't need so many folders and would prefer to just launch an app immediately when I tap it. You can add more homescreens and name them how you like but you can't change their colour or the types of boxes they contain. Overall, it all looks very nice but needs to be more customisable.
Performance:
I haven't had a chance to install any games yet but so far the "feel" of the device seems very solid. I do have a problem when trying to install N.O.V.A. 3, i can't even find it in the Google Play Store. After finding it through Google, it says that my device cannot support it. I don't get it. My One X can install this game and it's far below the specs of the M6. If anyone can let me know why this is, I can install it and let you know how it performs.
Battery Life:
When I opened the box, it was already switched on and showed that it had been running on battery for about 28 hours (so it was probably opened by customs since it was posted out a week ago). Since then I've had the screen almost constantly on doing various things for the last 5 hours and it still has 40% juice left. Pretty good then!
Conclusion:
Overall, I'm quite happy. It has some small niggles but then it was pretty cheap. For the people who are worried that the RK3188 can't handle a retina display, I think you can relax. Everything runs smoothly enough. Plus, if you really prefer a lower resolution, you can change it in the settings to conserve battery life and increase performance. It beats having an M7, M8 or M9 purely because they have much smaller batteries. The 2x5000 mAh battery in the M6 was designed for the retina screen so if you use the normal resolution, it would wipe the competition clean.
MarcusJKX said:
Only thing is, I used both AnTuTu and Android System Info to find out the resolution and there seem to be some discrepancies.
Under HD Mode, both apps reported a resolution of 1536x1952 with 320dpi. Now that's still within Retina level territory but they were advertising 2048x1536. Not a huge difference I know but still a little annoying.
At Normal Mode, AnTuTu reported 1600x1128 and Android System info reported 1200x1528. Not sure why the two differed but the difference is negligible when you do the math.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is normal. Physically, the screen resolution is 2048x1536. The bottom of the screen is allocated for soft buttons, hence you get smaller vertical resolution available to apps.
Do a test - change the tablet orientation, and check the resolution again.
Thank you for this comprehensive review. I myself also own a M6 3g and can mostly agree with your points. I myself think the build quality is quite good. No gaps or loose buttons.
Sent from my JB 4.2.2 powered HTC Desire using Tapatalk
pulsar124 said:
This is normal. Physically, the screen resolution is 2048x1536. The bottom of the screen is allocated for soft buttons, hence you get smaller vertical resolution available to apps.
Do a test - change the tablet orientation, and check the resolution again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahh i see, that makes sense. I never owned a device without physical or capacitive buttons so it didn't occur to me.
andbroe said:
Thank you for this comprehensive review. I myself also own a M6 3g and can mostly agree with your points. I myself think the build quality is quite good. No gaps or loose buttons.
Sent from my JB 4.2.2 powered HTC Desire using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I think it's also not bad. I wouldn't really call them gaps, but the seam that runs around the edge of the device definitely doesn't look consistent on my machine; some parts look a tiny fraction wider than the rest. Maybe you had better luck. bBy the way, do you have any idea why the Google Play Store won't let me download N.O.V.A. 3? I'm sure the specs are enough since even my HTC One X running a Tegra 3 can download it. Only thing I can think off is that the internal storage doesn't have enough space but then shouldn't it download into the NAND Flash? I have plenty of space there.
UPDATE: Been spending some more time with it. I am liking it less now that it's frozen up twice (both times requiring a hard reset by sticking a little needle in the small hole next to the back camera - didn't lose anything though). Also, I have a few apps that force the tablet into a vertical orientation and every time, they would force it into an upside down position (where the power button would be on the bottom as well as the front camera). I guess this indicates that the tablet's natural position is contrary to its physical design. I find this quite annoying to be honest and should hopefully be easily fixable with a firmware update. I hope they get on it! God I wish I can install Cyanogenmod on this.
MarcusJKX said:
God I wish I can install Cyanogenmod on this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
About the freezing. It happened also to me. Once even during a cold boot! But I am confident it is only a software problem. Maybe one day, when some of the excellent developers of XDA - developer take care of this baby we will get Cyanogenmod.
For the meantime I run RileyROM 1.2 (rooted and cleaned up, based on latest ROM from Pipo) and that works quite good.
See you
andbroe said:
+1
About the freezing. It happened also to me. Once even during a cold boot! But I am confident it is only a software problem. Maybe one day, when some of the excellent developers of XDA - developer take care of this baby we will get Cyanogenmod.
For the meantime I run RileyROM 1.2 (rooted and cleaned up, based on latest ROM from Pipo) and that works quite good.
See you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the tip! So you didn't encounter any more problems after installing this rom?
MarcusJKX said:
Thanks for the tip! So you didn't encounter any more problems after installing this rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another m6 user here also with a one x...
I also had the few freezes but since stopping using chrome, which runs like a dog anyway on this, it hasn't done it. Mines rooted and using the late June firmware. Only issue I've had other than that is a battery hiccup where it went from 65% to 13% in minutes and then back to 65% when the charger was plugged in. I have since ran it dead charged to 100% and calibrated the battery. The battery also doesn't have the correct MV reported
Other than that fast smooth even in retina mode and decent build. Can't find a hw 4k player yet tho like the a31
Steve
5teve said:
Another m6 user here also with a one x...
I also had the few freezes but since stopping using chrome, which runs like a dog anyway on this, it hasn't done it. Mines rooted and using the late June firmware. Only issue I've had other than that is a battery hiccup where it went from 65% to 13% in minutes and then back to 65% when the charger was plugged in. I have since ran it dead charged to 100% and calibrated the battery. The battery also doesn't have the correct MV reported
Other than that fast smooth even in retina mode and decent build. Can't find a hw 4k player yet tho like the a31
Steve
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah the first time it froze on me, I was also using Chrome. Can't remember what I was doing the second time. Anyways, I'm using the default browser now which suits me fine. Whats the difference between that and chrome anyway? i dont think ive had any issues with the battery although it did go from 14% to 4% awfully quick earlier. What do you mean the battery doesnt have the correct MV? Do you mean its not 10,000 mAh as advertised? How do you check that by the way?
I've been testing the more recent chinese builds (#17 is the latest one I've used) and have had no issues with Chrome or games. They apparently use the new Rockchip SDK 2.0, but I'm hoping we'll see these integrate the latest Mali drivers in the future. You can find the latest releases (currently #20) here http://pan.baidu.com/share/home?uk=1946954351 and if you don't want it in chinese, you should use the Rockchipfirmware kitchen to debloat and modify it. There are no changelogs included with these ROMs though, so you'll be flying blind.
MarcusJKX said:
Yeah the first time it froze on me, I was also using Chrome. Can't remember what I was doing the second time. Anyways, I'm using the default browser now which suits me fine. Whats the difference between that and chrome anyway? i dont think ive had any issues with the battery although it did go from 14% to 4% awfully quick earlier. What do you mean the battery doesnt have the correct MV? Do you mean its not 10,000 mAh as advertised? How do you check that by the way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On mine which is on the SDK2 firmware - there is a big difference with chrome and the stock browsers - chrome is massively laggy, freezes, stutters and is generally rubbish. Stock browser is fast and smooth. The only issue I have is not being able to scroll down on translated pages (htcmania) but change of orientation solves that..
regarding the mV issue, I am using GSam battery monitor and it reports the voltage as being 7mV
Steve
matnl said:
I've been testing the more recent chinese builds (#17 is the latest one I've used) and have had no issues with Chrome or games. They apparently use the new Rockchip SDK 2.0, but I'm hoping we'll see these integrate the latest Mali drivers in the future. You can find the latest releases (currently #20) here http://pan.baidu.com/share/home?uk=1946954351 and if you don't want it in chinese, you should use the Rockchipfirmware kitchen to debloat and modify it. There are no changelogs included with these ROMs though, so you'll be flying blind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm that all sounds a bit too complicated for me. I went through quite a bit of trouble trying to put Cyanogenmod on my One X even with so many instructions available out there. Dont know if I can handle installing a ROM on a device that's not so commonly supported.
5teve said:
regarding the mV issue, I am using GSam battery monitor and it reports the voltage as being 7mV
Steve
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm well when I use Android System Info, it says my battery is 8mV. Does that mean its 8000mAh? If so then I'm gonna be a bitnpissed coz the whole reason chose the M6 over the M7 was because the battery. I actually prefer a slightly smaller tablet.
MarcusJKX said:
Hmm that all sounds a bit too complicated for me. I went through quite a bit of trouble trying to put Cyanogenmod on my One X even with so many instructions available out there. Dont know if I can handle installing a ROM on a device that's not so commonly supported.
Hmm well when I use Android System Info, it says my battery is 8mV. Does that mean its 8000mAh? If so then I'm gonna be a bitnpissed coz the whole reason chose the M6 over the M7 was because the battery. I actually prefer a slightly smaller tablet.
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No voltage and current are different. eg a USB port outputs 5v (5000mV) at 500mA (or 0.5A)
Updating firmware on this is easy.. you use software on the PC to upload and flash.. the only panic I had was a very very long boot time the first time while it updates, I thought I had broken it. I was surprised how painless it was.
Thanks
Steve
5teve said:
No voltage and current are different. eg a USB port outputs 5v (5000mV) at 500mA (or 0.5A)
Updating firmware on this is easy.. you use software on the PC to upload and flash.. the only panic I had was a very very long boot time the first time while it updates, I thought I had broken it. I was surprised how painless it was.
Thanks
Steve
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Well I think I can flash it since they provided the instructions themselves and I found some other instructions online but when matnl mentioned debloating and modifying the ROM to make it English, that worried me. Do you think it's really worth it? Did u notice a big performance increase?
MarcusJKX said:
Well I think I can flash it since they provided the instructions themselves and I found some other instructions online but when matnl mentioned debloating and modifying the ROM to make it English, that worried me. Do you think it's really worth it? Did u notice a big performance increase?
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Mine was supplied with the pre SDK2 firmware, and it was a big difference going to the SDK2.0 firmware. I didnt debloat at all, I installed the one that said english, it booted in chinese, so i had to work my way through to changing the language to english. On first boot i opted for standard jellybean launcher and then installed apex for a bit of customisability. there didnt look like too much in the way of chinese apps and bloat?
Rooting was easy as there is a batch file on Htcmania that does it for you.
Steve
5teve said:
Mine was supplied with the pre SDK2 firmware, and it was a big difference going to the SDK2.0 firmware. I didnt debloat at all, I installed the one that said english, it booted in chinese, so i had to work my way through to changing the language to english. On first boot i opted for standard jellybean launcher and then installed apex for a bit of customisability. there didnt look like too much in the way of chinese apps and bloat?
Rooting was easy as there is a batch file on Htcmania that does it for you.
Steve
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I just did the debloat bit because otherwise you're stuck with apps in chinese which are difficult to remove. But as Steve said, it's fairly simple to figure out how to switch the UI to english or anything you like once you've installed the ROM. Like Steve, I also use Apex Launcher rather than the Pipo one.
Another thing I did was use a different parameter file so that I have 4GB of user space rather than the standard 2GB. But this probably is beyond the scope of this thread.
matnl said:
I just did the debloat bit because otherwise you're stuck with apps in chinese which are difficult to remove. But as Steve said, it's fairly simple to figure out how to switch the UI to english or anything you like once you've installed the ROM. Like Steve, I also use Apex Launcher rather than the Pipo one.
Another thing I did was use a different parameter file so that I have 4GB of user space rather than the standard 2GB. But this probably is beyond the scope of this thread.
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Alright, my M6 froze again today whilst using Pulse so I think I've had enough. I'm gonna try to flash it with a rom. A couple of questions first. How can I check which SDK I'm on? It says my Kernel version is 3.0.36+ from June 25th. Does that mean I'm on SDK2.0 already since it's the latest?
Anyways, I don't wanna bother anyone here with writing out a full instructional so can someone please just confirm that all I need to do is follow this guide: http://www.freak-tab.de/rrileypm/First Time User Guide_pr0_rev5.pdf Of course, instead of using the RileyROM 1.2, I will use the M6 4.2.2 #20 from http://pan.baidu.com/share/home?uk=1946954351 . Also, why are there two files with the same name there? One uploaded on the 13th and one on the 15th of July? Thanks alot guys!
i already posted this to other threads
i bought my pipo m6 a week ago.. so far so bad!.. first off, i got a dirt INSIDE the screen, i was forced to remove the screen guard to see if its not a dirt in between the screen and the screen guard. unfortunately its inside the screen so there's no way of removing it without opening the whole system.. 2nd, im experiencing lags and forced close, QUAD CORE? 2GB RAM? what the!! my friends dual core phone is much better! mine doesnt even have to many apps yet. 3rd, i tried to play 1080 movies, mp4, it lags and crashes at me. aside from all this disappointing experience PIPO luncher form time to time force closes. another worse experience is that i experience FREEZE UP. the whole system froze while browsing facebook, for 20 minutes, all hardware buttons, touchscreen are not responding. i was forced to reset it via the little whole at the back of the device....i already updated to the 6/26 firmware release... but still getting the same issues. battery was good YES. but performance was disappointing. NOT TO MENTION the other users who comment about the SPEAKER! GOD! speaker sucks! based on a video i watched it was loud! but my SONY NEO V is way better! i hope that there is a FIRMWARE FIX to all this! except ofcourse about the screen dirt.. i was expecting to much about the new processor (QUAD CORE, better the DUAL CORE, RIGHT???), the ram but was getting to much frustration. the only GREAT thing about this device is the RETINA SCREEN, not including the DIRT of course, the the BATTERY!
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SquallDNA said:
i already posted this to other threads
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I can understand your frustration. I've experienced everything you mentioned except for the dirt (although I do have a small black smudge underneath the glass near the right speaker). I'm really starting to regret getting this thing (especially with news of the Nexus 2 7" coming out soon at a possibly cheaper price point). I'm really hoping installing something like the RileyROM 1.2 will help fix these issues.
MarcusJKX said:
I can understand your frustration. I've experienced everything you mentioned except for the dirt (although I do have a small black smudge underneath the glass near the right speaker). I'm really starting to regret getting this thing (especially with news of the Nexus 2 7" coming out soon at a possibly cheaper price point). I'm really hoping installing something like the RileyROM 1.2 will help fix these issues.
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i hope so too. thanks
SquallDNA said:
i hope so too. thanks
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I just flashed the RileyROM 1.2. They were right, it really was very easy. I'm in the process of restoring everything. I'll report back with my impressions on the performance later.