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It is truly amazing what we put up with as consumers of electronic devices. The fact that a certain technology is readily available and has been for years does not necessarily mean that we are allowed to put our hands on it. Instead there is a huge secluded group of executives that meet off the books periodically to decide how long they will string out the public with this specific device or set of hardware spec, and which years in the future they will finally decide to release what they already have in hand and are using themselves as "prototypes".
I have an uncle who works for an integrator who makes all the internals that go inside these cell phones, and laptops, and other electronic devices, and he has showed me again and again the kind of technology that is available, and could be in the hands of the public for pennies on the dollar, but from a sales/profit standpoint it would not make sense to release this stuff. We are talking about phones that exist now, but we will not see until 5 years from now, that can already be as powerful as your 3.0ghz core2duo desktop computer. The same goes with laptops. Just as an example, in 2001, I had a Dell Latitude c840 Laptop, with 2GB RAM and a 2.4ghz processor. Come on, that was 7 years ago! Yet that is still the norm for average/decent computer these days that sells for $1,000.
The intentional slowing down of technology release to the public, and the huge gap between what is easily possible and what is readily available is just getting bigger and bigger. Think about it...allowing a cell phone board to handle 512mb instead of 256mb...come on, that is an overnight programming/hardware fix job...not 2-3 years. We have been trained by these corporations to expect it to take a year or two to come up with new hardware, when in fact it takes weeks, and max 2-3 months to invent this stuff. Companies like Intel and AMD have been providing other companies like SiliconImages with 8-16 core computers for the past 8 years...why are we, the general public, so low on the totem pole to these executives? We have it well within our power to shut down the system in less than a week by refusing to buy this cheap, dumbed down hardware.
Frankly I am sick of it, yet there is nothing I can do as a consumer to change it. We are scum and nothing in the eyes of the giant electronics corps, and right now we are eating up their tables scraps like it is the best invention we have ever seen. Come on - The TouchPro 2 from HTC could have been in my hand 5 years ago, yet we still right now are "waiting" for it, and will pay $500, $600, or $700 for one, a device that costs them $50-$100 to manufacture. They hold on to hardware as long as they possibly can to make as much money as they can. Yes, that is a good business strategy, but in the meantime we are left with crap hardware that just gets repackaged into a new plastic shell and given a different name, and we are supposed to drool over it...? Please. This just blows me away, the fact that we put up with this treatment is beyond me; and, it has gone on for so long that it is par for the course now, nobody can change it. We will continue to get low quality electronics when 10x more advanced devices are sitting on CEO's desks just gathering dust.
Well said. That is why I ain't investing on any phone unless it has about 1GHz of processor power.
Of course it's about cost issues. There are multiteraflops computers in this world, but why can't we get our hands on them? Because they cost too much, duh.
Think about it. Do you want to pay $500,000 for a phone? Just because it contains chips that will economically viable in about five years?
Soaa- said:
Of course it's about cost issues. There are multiteraflops computers in this world, but why can't we get our hands on them? Because they cost too much, duh.
Think about it. Do you want to pay $500,000 for a phone? Just because it contains chips that will economically viable in about five years?
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But that is exactly my point, it really does not cost that much. You have been conditioned to think that it costs hundreds of tousands of dollars for this stuff.
This was exactly my point. Consumers have been trained to believe that this stuff really costs SO much money when in fact it does not. So we just put it out of our mind as unaffordable, and settle for a much more mediocre device.
For example, a 60" Plasma Flast Screen TV made by Pioneer (the best HDTV maker on the market) costs then about $200-$300 to make...they charge over $1,500 to $2,000 now. Do you also remember when that same 60" Plasma costs over $10,000 to make back in 2000 or 2001? Well they were not using any different or better parts back then, in fact probably worse parts than the new ones, however the price came from the "idea" of what HDTV was, and not from the actual cost/prices.
Huge advancements in technology are being withheld from us under the guise that it costs a lot of money, when in fact it costs Intel no more money to manufacture and 80core chip than it does for then to manufacture a single core chip. Perhaps a few dollars more, but we're talking about 5% or 10% of the price they charge as their costs here. Why do you think electronic companies never go out of business? I mean the names like LG, Samsung, Pioneer, Panasonioc, Sony, Motorola, etc....these have been around forever, and always will be because they are pulling the wool over our eyes.
I get sick evertime I read a press release from one of the big electronic giants about a "new" technology being introduced into the market, and although the price is sky high, some peiople will buy it. All I can sit there and think about it "Wow, how many decades did they wait to show this to us, only to tell us it was new and charge us out the butt for something they have had in their possesion for years?"
GRR! I will stop venting now.
"1GHz of processor power."
Ghz is pointless it's easy to make a 1Ghz cpu but to get to perform
better then what you got is the task
clock is only the pace how much is don at each tick is what matters
like a 500Mhz arm based cpu don't performe as a 500Mhz x86 based cpu
and a p4 2.4Ghz dont performe as a core duo 2.4Ghz
Could intel make a 16 core chip right now? Yes! they could! it would use over 400 watts, have to be clocked pretty low, and cost 2,000 because of very low yields (what % have all cores functional) and low demand. The desktop PC CPU market is not holding out on us. Why are the chips still clocked around 3ghz or lower? because the new chips have a focus on efficiency. They make the chips do more work at lower mhz to reduce power usage and allow them to keep advancing. An E6600 for example is supposed to be equivilent to a P4 at 6.6ghz, though they have gotten a bit bad with those ratings and they don't really offer a good comparison any more. I will put it this way though, if you benchmark a 2.4ghz P4 against a 2.4ghz core 2 based chip, the P4 chip will get curb stomped.
LCD panels for HDTVs etc.. weren't being held back, they were just being gouged to high heaven. Hence all of the recent price fixing suits coming up.
Phones, we really are being held back. I really don't know why. Probably atleast partly to do with batteries not being good enough, but even with our current batteries we should have much better phones. I live in the US, we get shafted on phones above and beyond the normal shafting. A lot of the good phones dont support our carriers and the ones that do often dont support our 3G bands.
its the same situation with cars! churning out the same repackaged stuff and charging the earth for it..
Slightly better specs, and only an extra $400! I'm happy with my gtab.
VERIZON is also disabling wifi unless you buy a minimum of one month of subscription service. That is a MAJOR turn off in my eyes and makes me sooooooo glad I got my gTab!!!!!
Sent from my GTablet-TnT-Lite using Tapatalk
I am certainly glad i picked up a g tab. $800 is a little much, and one month data on top of that is just greedy imo.
Sent from my VEGAn-TAB-v1.0.0B5.1 using Tapatalk
The gtab certainly works great for me. I'm looking forward to the ROM's that are sure to follow the Xoom's release though.
I feel like the market value of my g-tab just increased
Xoom scored 1823 in quadrant
Lulz.
*Yes, I know it has higher screen res
first i would like to correct the people saying that $800 is a little much. you're incorrect. its way too much. a price point around $500 would make this device a hit.
the specs are a bit better. but enough to make someone want to spend an extra 400 bucks? i believe it will sell well to apple haters that want a tablet and aren't aware there are android tablets outside the galaxy tab and xoom.
viewsonic could make a killing if they would announce the g tablet was going to get honeycomb on a specific date. that would be enough to bring a lot of customers.
http://www.techtree.com/India/News/...t_800_Launching_on_Feb_24/551-114391-893.html
Umm ....Yeah. Now I'm glad I bought 3 G Tablets. I was thinkin, 499.00- 599.00...Maybe I can justify that. But 8 bills? gonna save my money and put it towards the BIONIC instead.
Tickled pink w/ my GTab's
$800 gets you a better hires screen, 32gb storage, 1gb ram, and 3g/gps. If we look at the various versions of the ipad, and how much the other configurations add on to it, I would imagine it would be similar for gtablet/xoom if it had other configurations.
If there was a xoom hardware version that is truly equivalent to the gtablet, it would come down to this:
$800 for current xoom
-100 for 16gb less storage
-130 for no 3g/gps
-50 for 512mb less ram (i'm guessing on this one)
=$520
This number sounds more reasonable, I just wish they would come out with more options similar to what we get for the iPad.
I'm looking forward to the toshiba tablet assuming the price is right, one thing I like most about it is FULL SD card (no more micro sd card crap) meaning cheaper and larger storage options. It also has a user replaceable battery.
http://www.thetoshibatablet.com/
no way
well i was waiting for the xoom, i was gonna get it based on the first rumor of feb 17th release date and $699. but now no way especially since wifi comes disabled, thats so lowbrow and nickle and dime the consumer to death. looks like ill just go get a gtab now. seems like everyones happy with theirs.
I refuse to buy any tablet or device crippled by someone unless I take their appendages in my orifices. Don't support these bastages if you ever want to see this crappy business practice stop(not that it will, but I'd die before I support it).
When nobody buys the thing expect this price to drop...fast. Manufacturers need to realize most people aren't using their tablets walking down the street, all we want is wifi!
Drop a wifi only for 500 and it will sell. I'm still a firm believer that the average consumer won't bite at $800, and would rather buy a new laptop for just a little more. Not to mention the ipad can be cheaper and has more name recognition.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Agreed. If someone has $800 to drop on this and extra $20 may not appear to be such a big deal IF it didn't smack of extortion. Look at the HP Slate that rolled out at a similiar price point geared toward the business community. Not sure how that did but one doesn't hear much about it these days. Now if the XOOM was a dual-boot (Honeycomb/Win7) I for one might, MIGHT, be tempted. And as long as the Win7 flavor was better than Win7 Starter.
Just my 2 cents
Very sad
I think it's overpriced. The specs are good, but I don't see how they arrived at that absurd price. And it's very, very sad Google chose Motorola to feature Honeycomb! I'll just sit and wait the gtab devs release their version of Honey in the near future.
abstrusius said:
I think it's overpriced. The specs are good, but I don't see how they arrived at that absurd price. And it's very, very sad Google chose Motorola to feature Honeycomb! I'll just sit and wait the gtab devs release their version of Honey in the near future.
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I'm sure the 3G components (and Verizon) had alot to do with driving up the price. Plus if they are launching the first tablet that officially competes head to head with the iPad, I think there is alot of, for the lack of a better word, snobbishness out there whereby some folks in the market for an iPad wouldn't consider an alternative if it was significantly cheaper - I know, sounds counter-intuitive but I've heard it from enough people to believe it actually is a factor. If its alot cheaper, it must also be a physically cheaper product and therefore inferior to the mighty iPad.
I'll just wait until its released so somebody can figure out how to get honeycomb off it and let the ports flow.
So sixvolt you raise a question for me. I'm no stranger to development (being in the field) and I've played with the android SDKs before as well as compiling various linux kernels (never an android kernel though). Is it currently possible to produce a working rom from the honeycomb SDK? Or is there something that I am missing here? How was this achieved on the nook?
I heard LG may be right behind at a much lower cost.... Im betting on that tablet right now... Motorola I am writing off as if I were someone looking for an amazing tablet in that price range with tons of developers and applications - why wouldn't I just buy an iPAD (or actually just wait for the iPAD 2).
The differentiating factor to apple has been its openness and most importantly the price. Most consumers dont care about the geek factor ("openness") as long as they can start playing at a reasonable price... the Xoom just is NOT that... I say it will be as good with consumers as the Galaxy Tab was which in all tense and purposes was a flop (technically ever android tablet has been a flop if we were to compare its sales to its competitors)..
I think Android 3.0 definitely has a very very strong chance of overtaking the iPAD - especially since Google has confirmed that all 2.x applications should work on 3.0 BUT only if these devices come in at reasonable pricing. If not - even I would potentially jump ship to just have a mature platform.
I personally like fiddling but fiddling only goes so far once you realize that you cant get work done... Right now the GTablet is a great fiddler -but honestly with the corruption (ie force closes of the core, reboots when in sleep) , battery life and very poor viewing angles I just cant use it for prime time work. I truely am hopping for a great competitor to the iPAD... lets hope and see..
Misprint?
I think this may be a misprint. Should say plan activation required to receive data. The $20.00 a month 1 gig plan is the same that was offered with the Galaxy Tab. Don't forget the activation fee of $30.00 or was it $35.00.
$800.00 is allot for a gimped lap tap, but compare the price to the top ipad and it seems what the market will bear.
Personally, after using a tablet for awhile now, I'm coming to my senses. The premium for their portability is too steep considering the limitations that a tablet has compared to a laptop. I would not spend $800.00 for any tablet. I would consider this unit in the $500.00 to 600.00 dollar range, but that would be driven more by want than an actual use for it.
This does seem like a steep price but we also need to remember this is the first heavily marketed Android tablet and is also running Honeycomb. This will be no different than any other overpriced handheld device, they demand a high price tag initially with no competition, but we all know the slew of tablets that are about to be released this year. I give them 15-20 days at this price point before competition/lack of sales drive them down.
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
Well, screensize is a matter of personal preference. Millions of iphoners can attest to that.
I, personally, won't pass judgement on the Titan's screen until I see it in person.
Based on what you've posted, I'd recommend either waiting for Nokia devices or take a look at Samsung Focus S when it hits.
Although, I do agree that OEMS have been less than forthcoming with their cutting edge devices thus far. The Venue Pro could have been such an animal had it not had a myriad of issues early on.
Okbye.
yes because every single android device has monster specs and doesn't try to market to different audiences increasing share and permeability...
seriously this iteration is Microsoft and OEMs using different market points to create presence and alternatives
Dual core is next year, so either wait or not buy it...it's that simple
I think the screen sizes between 3.5 and 4.0 are awesome :-D just the way I want the screens to be;-) still hoped for some dual core, but wp is designed especially for one type of processor, so It's probably therefore it is still singlecore
sent with love from me to you
domineus said:
yes because every single android device has monster specs and doesn't try to market to different audiences increasing share and permeability...
seriously this iteration is Microsoft and OEMs using different market points to create presence and alternatives
Dual core is next year, so either wait or not buy it...it's that simple
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The problem is Microsoft thinks that WP7 sales were slack because the handsets were too expensive. The reality is the handsets were a year (or more) out of date before they hit the shelves. They were pushing 3G phones with a series 1 CPU and no FFC in stores next to high end 4G phones with all the accessories. Now all we have are these puny low res screens on underpowered phones! Shameful!
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
andrewkeith5 said:
Cut for size
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I just wanted to come to this thread and say: Amen, brotha.
You couldn't have explained it better.
Xodium said:
I just wanted to come to this thread and say: Amen, brotha.
You couldn't have explained it better.
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Thanks! You can probably tell that little rant has been brewing up for quite some time reading some of the posts on here!
mlococo said:
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
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I agree. Guess what's going to happen when iPhone 5 hits? Long lines and a sellout.
Guess what's going to happen when the second generation of WP7 phones hit? Short lines and overstock.
mlococo said:
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
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Click to collapse
I sort of agree, but only a little. For WP7 to be successful, they need to push out some hardware that blows people away. Not necessarily in specs, but in design. The new Focus S or whatever it will be called is pretty impressive, but they need to stop developing behind the curve and start innovating on some hardware. Maybe that's MS's plan with Nokia and the newly signed HTC and Samsung contracts. I know that WP7 will outperform a dual-core Android with nothing more than a few generation past snapdragon, but why not throw in a dual-core anyway? My Focus is buttery smooth 99% of the time, but a dual-core and some extra RAM will speed up app loading immensely.
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
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hey buddy, please correct your words...we didn't say that WP7 running on single core is slow,please get us right...the reason why we want dual-core is more future proof...
future proof,read it again...microsoft has disappointed me twice since I just love WP7 like you,1st is the HTC HD2 and it can't run a real or proper WP7 due to microsoft don't want to support it.Then,i went for Mozart just for wp7,and now Microsoft says that only one major update per year, therefore, I don't think mozart is up for the next update no new feature,secondary camera, gyroscope for better augmented reality, kinect integration&etc....
So, get us right,before you write man...everyone knows that WP7 is fast on single core,but no future proof...not everyone is rich a$$ and able to buy new mobile phone every year. We want something can last for at least 2 years.
Specs > Design. If Nokia ships phones with Titan/Focus S specs they will not be able to attract the amount of conversions they need.
What Microsoft needs is conversions, not turnover.
Conversion: Android/iOS/WebOS/BB users switching to WP7.
Turn-Over: Us upgrading because we want more up-to-date handsets.
Android got where it is because it was able to convert a ton of Windows Mobile/BB/WebOS and even some iOS people to Android, not through turn-over.
Cute phones don't make those people come to WP7, when the internals are a year or more behind the competition. It's not just about power. Newer SoCs allow for LTE and faster HSPA+ data connections (this is why T-Mobile is using a Qualcomm instead of Exynos in their Galaxy S II). It allows for high-def Video Chatting. NFC. WiFi Direct. Bluetooth 3.0, etc.
Keep in mind, a lot of those features were on phones a year ago.
Microsoft's hardware specs have really held OEMs back. Part of the reason why Advertising for WP7 is so bad is cause the carriers and OEMs are really struggling to find a story to tell. The handsets, even if the design is nice, simply won't have that with the way Microsoft keeps the OEMs on that leash...
And with users come more and better dev support.
I've spend the better part of 3-4 days going through the app market and there's hardly any non-game apps worth installing (outside of some obvious ones, of course). Hardly any of them have been updated to Mango, and there are apps that I paid for which haven't been updated in ~6 months...
Yes, WP7 has to catch up. Software isn't the only way they need to catch up. They need to catch up with device specs as well.
The 4G phones coming to AT&T are 14.4 Mbps HSPA+ devices. The Galaxy S II on AT&T is a 21 Mbps device. T-Mobile's Galaxy S II is a 42 Mbps device, I doubt the Radar 4G will be above 14.4 unless they use an SoC we don't anticipate. The Price of the phones didn't have anything to do with the slow uptake of WP7 on release. The state of the OS had everything to do with that. It's one thing to be told something. It's another thing for people to see what it really performed like when they went in the store (and by performed, I'm not talking about raw speed).
Even now that Mango is out. So little apps are taking advantage of its new features that they need to really push for developers to get on the ball to updating their apps and supporting them. To a consumer trying devices out in a carrier store (only choice for a lot of them, since most of their friends don't have WP7 devices), a lot of Mango's changes seem purely cosmetic because of that. Microsoft haven't even updated most of their own apps on the marketplace for Mango...
N8ter said:
Specs > Design. If Nokia ships phones with Titan/Focus S specs they will not be able to attract the amount of conversions they need.
What Microsoft needs is conversions, not turnover.
Conversion: Android/iOS/WebOS/BB users switching to WP7.
Turn-Over: Us upgrading because we want more up-to-date handsets.
Android got where it is because it was able to convert a ton of Windows Mobile/BB/WebOS and even some iOS people to Android, not through turn-over.
Cute phones don't make those people come to WP7, when the internals are a year or more behind the competition. It's not just about power. Newer SoCs allow for LTE and faster HSPA+ data connections (this is why T-Mobile is using a Qualcomm instead of Exynos in their Galaxy S II). It allows for high-def Video Chatting. NFC. WiFi Direct. Bluetooth 3.0, etc.
Keep in mind, a lot of those features were on phones a year ago.
Microsoft's hardware specs have really held OEMs back. Part of the reason why Advertising for WP7 is so bad is cause the carriers and OEMs are really struggling to find a story to tell. The handsets, even if the design is nice, simply won't have that with the way Microsoft keeps the OEMs on that leash...
And with users come more and better dev support.
I've spend the better part of 3-4 days going through the app market and there's hardly any non-game apps worth installing (outside of some obvious ones, of course). Hardly any of them have been updated to Mango, and there are apps that I paid for which haven't been updated in ~6 months...
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Very true. My sentiments exactly.
Part of it is good: They've added a lot of integrated functionality that reduces the need to install 3rd party apps. Shazam is useless on WP7 for me, for example (just one example).
Part of it is Bad: There are a lot of good apps on other platforms that seem like they don't care, and apps that were released early on, like Twitter/Birdsong that seem to have fallen out of support. Maybe the dev of Birdsong made enough cash and don't feel the need to update the app anymore?
Board Express Pro hasn't updated their app in forever as well, and that's a $3 app.
IMO, if you don't plan on supporting your app in the marketplace, it shouldn't cost anything. I have tended to ignore paid apps (don't even consider them, and don't even look at them) now unless they're a reputable app from a reputable developer. I'll buy BeejiveIM if it comes to WP7, I'll buy TapaTalk if it comes to WP7. If I had to do it again, I wouldn't buy Birdsong or Board Express Pro.
My days paying for apps are numbered. It's the developers' fault, too.
I think a lot of Microsoft's initial goal was Conversion of non-smartphone users. I don't have anything to prove it, but I wouldn't be surprised if a large amount of Android's marketshare comes from mid/low range devices.
N8tr,
Weren't you the one upset in an older thread that "all the apps are mango" and you couldn't use them because mango wasn't officially released yet... And now your upset that not enough apps are mango...
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
mlococo said:
The problem is Microsoft thinks that WP7 sales were slack because the handsets were too expensive. The reality is the handsets were a year (or more) out of date before they hit the shelves. They were pushing 3G phones with a series 1 CPU and no FFC in stores next to high end 4G phones with all the accessories. Now all we have are these puny low res screens on underpowered phones! Shameful!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh yes and the incredible spec'd devices that were on windows mobile were blockbusters in the market
Microsoft again will lose money if this is all about a specs war, and specs weren't the reason why android was (and is) successful. It's a part, but not the complete package.
Android is diverse enough to reach several different price points to be pawned and given away for pennies. In America, that's important. The only one that feels the need to compare the specs is a bunch of idiots like you and me to see who has the bigger e credit
And I bet anyone on xda devs has done that once
But guess what? We're a growing population, but we are still a blip in comparison to the mass consumer. Go on, ask anyone if spec's matter. To many the answer is possibly, but when a person is selling a phone, they don't say
Hi this phone has a 1.5 gig dual core qhd screen.
They dumb it down to make it sound nice. If you speak techie 24x7 selling a phone, not many sales occur. Again, its about the casual customer.
That said, looking at the price points for android devices that are priced and have similar hardware to windows phone, windows phone does provide a far greater out of box experience. That matters, and it is a large reason why many ditched windows mobile and palm in favor for the iphone flavor in 2007.
Windows Phone has to be popular, and that is a key deterrent in both apple and android's success. This year is the year of getting Windows on equal footing with Android and apple in competitive pricing. Next year is popularity, and ironically, a lot of users will be looking to renew their contracts in America...that matters too
In other words
wait or use a different phone if you're after specs...It's what I used to tell my customers all the time
munkeyphyst said:
N8tr,
Weren't you the one upset in an older thread that "all the apps are mango" and you couldn't use them because mango wasn't officially released yet... And now your upset that not enough apps are mango...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about N8ter, but I complained before the official release, when Microsoft was pushing Mango updates into the marketplace, and their policy was that any app updated to Mango caused the NoDo version to be locked (no more updates allowed). We didn't know how long it would be until the official release, and we didn't know how many NoDo apps would be dead-ended in the interim.
But now Mango is officially out, and Microsoft has admitted that their policy was a bad idea and reversed it. So now everyone wins. People with Mango can get Mango apps, and people with NoDo can continue to receive updates (at least until their numbers are so few that it no longer makes sense).
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
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Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more, I think 16GB is plenty for almost all needs
MartyLK said:
I agree. Guess what's going to happen when iPhone 5 hits? Long lines and a sellout.
Guess what's going to happen when the second generation of WP7 phones hit? Short lines and overstock.
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Click to collapse
because of the fact that all the iNaives out there don't know better. people need to stop holding Microsoft to a higher standard than google and apple. the iOS5 betas so far have been unstable on the iPhone4 when compared to mango, also apple may not even release the iPhone 5 but more of a rehash of the iPhone 4,I've seen ur trolling on pocketnow over the mango update and u are just plain wrong, ur just mad because mango doesn't include ur precious Google- integration.
N8ter said:
The 4G phones coming to AT&T are 14.4 Mbps HSPA+ devices. The Galaxy S II on AT&T is a 21 Mbps device. T-Mobile's Galaxy S II is a 42 Mbps device, I doubt the Radar 4G will be above 14.4 unless they use an SoC we don't anticipate. The Price of the phones didn't have anything to do with the slow uptake of WP7 on release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and this matters how? at&t,tmobile and vz all have data caps, what good is 42mbps when u can't even use them without being slowed or overcharged?
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who are you to decide what screen size is good for me?
"IS NOT NECESSARY" - who gave you the right to decide what is necessary? Don't be a smartass
When it comes to android, you know that you have an outstanding range of hardware. From the low-end Optimus T/S to the titans of the OS such as the Galaxy S2, and everything imaginable in between. These days, you can even find generic china phones running an, often dated, android. Every carrier has it, they come in all price ranges, and they're available on demand. The question I pose to you, "Is android's key selling point the hardware?"
I understand that numerous XDA members and even some outsiders enjoy the limitless customization options made readily available in android and that's awesome. However, the general consumer is happy to end customization at setting their own ringtone. It's not a breaking factor for the majority that you can swap out kernels. Overall, android is a decent enough platform, but for the masses, I see little that it offers, hardware aside, that it's competitors don't.
Here recently, a thread was posted regarding the ASUS Transformer 2, a pentacore processor in a tablet. Now, most people have yet to exhaust the resources on their dual core phones. A penta-core device seems to be pushing the limits. Considering that it is running a mobile OS, by the time those cores could be utilized, wouldn't the tablet be long outdated? However, I know it will sell well because the word "Penta-core" sounds too awesome for the masses to pass up.
Another occurrence I've seen, having worked in retail shops for some time. A lot of customers, when asked about what OS their phone is running, will reply, "HTC" or, "Samsung." A lot of them have no idea what our little green friend is. Another point towards my personal opinion that the hardware is a huge selling factor.
Overall, android is a very complete platform. It is not my daily driver, but I do enjoy it whenever I have time to tinker. I am inquiring about this matter to get your opinions, what sells? Hardware or software?
I think for me its a little bit of both. I like the fact that the hardware is there in my 3d when I need to push the system really hard. Its not often I do, but its good that when I do, it executes the tasks with ease.
On the same hand there are huge software benefits for me. I love the UI and that I can set swype gestures to open particular apps or settings. It makes multi tasking tthat much easier and fluid for me.
Also, at least from what I have seen with iOS5 (my girl has the 4s) is that android seems to be ahead in certain areas of functionality. For example it is not an innovative thing (to me anyways, being an android user) to be able to back up your device without the use of a computer... I have been doing wireless backups and internal backups since I bought my first android phone.
I think one thing you mentioned before... I think it was you, anyways... was pretty much right on when you said that android is capable of meeting so many different needs in the sense that you have a wide range in variety of devices to choose from and at different costs. There are high end phones available such that perform to today's standards in the mobile world, and there are lower end ones available that are more cost effective.
I feel if you yourself are innovative and creative, you are way more capable of taking an android phone and building the UI to what you want/need. I don't sacrifice functionality for speed, ever. In the end it is still just a phone, but I prefer this platform because it caters to that need I have to customize my phone the way I want it to be, not what somebody else feels it should be.
---------- Post added at 02:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 AM ----------
And to address your comment about the bajjillion core tab....
Seems the hardware is way ahead of the software in this case... therefore, I am not impressed by it.
I have a Motorola xoom and it has plenty of power to do what I need it to do. I will not be taking it back to simply have two more cores under the hood. And somebody else mentioned the new kal el device only has 1gb of ram? In my opinion that is really disappointing for a device with that kind of processing power.
i buy phones based on hardware specs
the OS is optional
I prefer to load my OS of choice
just like my PCs / Laptops
z33dev33l said:
When it comes to android, you know that you have an outstanding range of hardware. From the low-end Optimus T/S to the titans of the OS such as the Galaxy S2, and everything imaginable in between. These days, you can even find generic china phones running an, often dated, android. Every carrier has it, they come in all price ranges, and they're available on demand. The question I pose to you, "Is android's key selling point the hardware?"
I understand that numerous XDA members and even some outsiders enjoy the limitless customization options made readily available in android and that's awesome. However, the general consumer is happy to end customization at setting their own ringtone. It's not a breaking factor for the majority that you can swap out kernels. Overall, android is a decent enough platform, but for the masses, I see little that it offers, hardware aside, that it's competitors don't.
Here recently, a thread was posted regarding the ASUS Transformer 2, a pentacore processor in a tablet. Now, most people have yet to exhaust the resources on their dual core phones. A penta-core device seems to be pushing the limits. Considering that it is running a mobile OS, by the time those cores could be utilized, wouldn't the tablet be long outdated? However, I know it will sell well because the word "Penta-core" sounds too awesome for the masses to pass up.
Another occurrence I've seen, having worked in retail shops for some time. A lot of customers, when asked about what OS their phone is running, will reply, "HTC" or, "Samsung." A lot of them have no idea what our little green friend is. Another point towards my personal opinion that the hardware is a huge selling factor.
Overall, android is a very complete platform. It is not my daily driver, but I do enjoy it whenever I have time to tinker. I am inquiring about this matter to get your opinions, what sells? Hardware or software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First time I have to agree with you pal.BUT:
i)Those guys/gals whose customisation needs end with setting the ringtone are the ones who won't care or even won't realize if the OS is different between an iPhone and an Android device.
ii)Android offers most(if not all) of the things other OSes offer,plus the infinite customisation capabilities no other OS has.Now this is what matters for those of us who can do more than changing the ringtone.
Other than these two things,I generally agree.In the end,though,it's user preference that matters.And people's idiocy in fact.Hell,many people buy their phones depending on how many megapixels their camera can do!
AllGamer said:
I prefer to load my OS of choice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd prefer that too, but mobile hardware is pretty much completely closed, so this is not really possible in practice, except maybe on very very few models.
To answer the title question: I don't know about others, but for me it's definitely the OS. Android is the closest to Linux as I'll probably get on a phone, people are free to cook up their own ROMs (not completely free in many cases, there's closed components in every ROM, but oh well), vast customization capabilities, for getting software you're not limited to one store with draconian rules and sometimes arbitrary decisions.
Certainly a combination of software + hardware with a little bit of company preference.
But considering the range of manufacturers for android based phones, I find it hard to lag behind hardware wise.
1) I look for a device that I think will last me the three years of my contract or at least the majority of it
2) I look here on XDA and see what the dev community is like
3) I buy the phone
I would guess that for 80%+ of phone buyers the main factor is price. Sure they know about the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy devices, but for most those phohnes are out of their price bracket. So they find the device which has the same sort of idea but in a cheap package, which has helped Android no end since there are low end Android devices, and Apple have little interest in that.
For myself as a more techie person, I use Android becuase of the freedom to do what i want with my hardware. At least that's why i got into Android. Now I will continue to buy Android devices, but the major reason is I've invested in the app market, I have tens of pounds worth of apps for Android. To jump to anotehr platform now would mean having to start over with that. That's the power of these stores and markets, once you are invested changing platform is a lot more of a jump that just deciding which you like the most at the time.
countstex said:
I would guess that for 80%+ of phone buyers the main factor is price. Sure they know about the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy devices, but for most those phohnes are out of their price bracket. So they find the device which has the same sort of idea but in a cheap package, which has helped Android no end since there are low end Android devices, and Apple have little interest in that.
For myself as a more techie person, I use Android becuase of the freedom to do what i want with my hardware. At least that's why i got into Android. Now I will continue to buy Android devices, but the major reason is I've invested in the app market, I have tens of pounds worth of apps for Android. To jump to anotehr platform now would mean having to start over with that. That's the power of these stores and markets, once you are invested changing platform is a lot more of a jump that just deciding which you like the most at the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen the price comment being made multiple times but aren't these devices pretty close to each other in terms of price after a 2 yr contract? In fact if you shop around, you can find some of these highend units for nearly nothing from online stores such as amazon
As for me, overall package is what sold me to galaxy s2. Form factor, hardware specs, overall implementation of the OS (gpu acceleration various places), etc. Version number really doesn't really bother me (2.3.3 vs 2.3.4/5/6/7) as long as there aren't any key features missing in the current revision that exists in the newer revisions.
Gusar321 said:
I'd prefer that too, but mobile hardware is pretty much completely closed, so this is not really possible in practice, except maybe on very very few models.
To answer the title question: I don't know about others, but for me it's definitely the OS. Android is the closest to Linux as I'll probably get on a phone, people are free to cook up their own ROMs (not completely free in many cases, there's closed components in every ROM, but oh well), vast customization capabilities, for getting software you're not limited to one store with draconian rules and sometimes arbitrary decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HD2 was a great example
then there are many other HTC devices that did the same
and a few Samsung devices as well
and there's the HP Touchpad
and...
For most people it's both.
They're attracted for the first time by the look and find the OS easy to use.
Despite people stating that the iphone is for people who just want to use a smartphone for the first time etc and Android is for techies and geeks to customise, if that were actually true then that would mean that there are a hell of a lot of geeks out there, which obviously isn't the case.
I would guess the majority of Android users' extent of customisation is changing the picture of their wallpaper, and that's the thing, with Android you can do that, it's easy to use, with the extra buttons it can seem more logical to new users compared with the single button on the iphone for instance.
It has the "apps and the wifis" that average users want, it looks good and you can make it look pretty much how you like.
Being able to just plug it into another computer and transfer files is a huge boon too, something a colleague was very disappointed with the iphone4 because of it's lack of ability.
There is 500+ android devices on the market globally, its the brand name and hardware specs that sell. Not the os.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I'd rather say that that none of those sell the other: it's actually the price selling both, plus the "status symbol" factor thatbhas to do with Apple things. Androids are generally cheaper then both the iPhone and WP7 phones. This, plus the fact that most people don't seem to like WP7 tiled ui, basically because it doesn't "look like an iPhone" enough. That might sound harsh, like saying that most people are dumb, but it's not (only) that actually: people got used to icons since the day they got their first pc, no wonder they go for something that looks more familiar to them when they wanna buy a smartphone. Maybe Win8 will totally change the name of the game, but that's it for the moment (sadly enough I dare say).
I think we have to remember that 'most' people don't include the tiny fraction of the consumer market that are active on XDA. We make choices on a range of factors as we are better informed about both hardware and software. When we walk into a phone shop we want to assess the phone on build quality, size, Android version, display type, etc.
When the average punter walks into the same shop their buying choice usually boils down to no more than, 'Oh look, a shiny thing. I want that one'.
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Thread moved to Android. Would advise you to read forum rules and post in correct section.
Failure to comply with forum rules will result in an infraction and/or ban depending on severity of rule break.
Do you review the content of my threads before moving them or do you see my name and play pin the tail on the donkey with the final location of the thread?
I see Microsoft reported on version of the surface sold out of pre order. initial estimates were 2-5 million units (including all the models) were on hand for pre order.
I'm curious if anyone has seen links to estimated numbers of sales of the sold out units. a million,100000, 10000?
haven't seen a big grinning "I told you so" mug from balmer yet... hmmm
post whatchafind here.
I'm sure that the stock they have made available online is nowhere near the number of units that they have actually produced for availability. The online stock was probably a small quantity. Of course, I'm sure we won't know much about numbers till after launch.
Don't forget they need to have units available to ship to other retailers and they need to have units to ship to their own stores. I think at this point, pre-ordering at a Microsoft Store is your best bet.
The number would be really small maybe even not an amount but a clever marketing person going after x amount of time we will display the cheapest version as out of stock! This then creates a panic in the wait and see crowd who then jump in and pre order the higher models. Basically I wouldn't believe anything you see till they produce numbers as this is the typical rubbish people pull. I mean isn't it amazing how EVERY xmas the current games consoles go out of stock only to all of a sudden have loads in the last couple of weeks??? They know that loads of people would want to wait and see but if they do then you don't get high first sales and you stall but if you make people think they might miss out its amazing how many people will jump at it.
That said I hope they have sold loads and cant wait to get mine, after an initial worry on pricing I have decided its worth it, after all you can run bluestacks for apps so that's now not a problem
lumpaywk said:
The number would be really small maybe even not an amount but a clever marketing person going after x amount of time we will display the cheapest version as out of stock! This then creates a panic in the wait and see crowd who then jump in and pre order the higher models. Basically I wouldn't believe anything you see till they produce numbers as this is the typical rubbish people pull. I mean isn't it amazing how EVERY xmas the current games consoles go out of stock only to all of a sudden have loads in the last couple of weeks??? They know that loads of people would want to wait and see but if they do then you don't get high first sales and you stall but if you make people think they might miss out its amazing how many people will jump at it.
That said I hope they have sold loads and cant wait to get mine, after an initial worry on pricing I have decided its worth it, after all you can run bluestacks for apps so that's now not a problem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BlueStacks is a regular desktop application - RT does not run desktop applications, unfortunately.
Valerianus said:
BlueStacks is a regular desktop application - RT does not run desktop applications, unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please check this link http://bluestacks.com/technology/ You will see that there will be an ARM bluestacks for windows 8 launch (maybe a small wait).
"•Android on Windows (for ARM):
Run Android on Windows on ARM architectures starting with the Windows 8 release"
lumpaywk said:
The number would be really small maybe even not an amount but a clever marketing person going after x amount of time we will display the cheapest version as out of stock! This then creates a panic in the wait and see crowd who then jump in and pre order the higher models.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The trouble is that the higher models of the Surface are now on backorder too. Some people may not bother preordering, anymore.
Looks like the last week of October will be a fun week. All three of the Big Boys (APL, MSFT, GOOG) will be releasing new toys: iPad Mini, Surface RT, and rumored Nexus 10 by Samsung.
The Samsung Nexus 10 if true should be a beast. 2560x1600, likely Exynos 5 Dual (5250) based on Cortex-A15. Base pricing should be same as iPad. If so, we'd be looking at three 10"-ish tabs from the three platforms at the same $499 price.
Out of the three, Nexus 10 would win on hardware, iPad on software (apps). Doesn't look good for Surface RT, no matter how MS spins the "low-res is just as good as hi-res".
e.mote said:
Looks like the last week of October will be a fun week. All three of the Big Boys (APL, MSFT, GOOG) will be releasing new toys: iPad Mini, Surface RT, and rumored Nexus 10 by Samsung.
The Samsung Nexus 10 if true should be a beast. 2560x1600, likely Exynos 5 Dual (5250) based on Cortex-A15. Base pricing should be same as iPad. If so, we'd be looking at three 10"-ish tabs from the three platforms at the same $499 price.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Meh... It's still just Android, only on a bigger, high-res screen, running smartphone apps... Double meh for iPad Mini and the same boring UI on a 7" screen...
Although, I do agree on the screen resolution. I don't understand why MS didn't specify at least a 1080 screen on the RT especially with Office pre-installed. Windows Phone 8 on a 4"-5" screen, Windows 8 RT on a 10" tablet, Windows 8 Pro on a 27" desktop, Xbox w/ kinect on a 50" TV and SmartGlass to connect them all... what more do you need?
>I don't understand why MS didn't specify at least a 1080 screen on the RT
I think it's because of a long development cycle. The Surface specs were probably finalized some time last year, when 1280x800 tablets (and the $499 price) were still the norm. The low-priced KFs and N7s didn't exist then.
BTW, here's a good read on Steven Sinofsky, the exec in charge of the whole Windows initiatives, including Surface. His rigid management style, as depicted in the piece, may be the underlying reason for Surface's current state.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57536905-75/steven-sinofsky-microsofts-controversial-mr-windows-8/
e.mote said:
>I don't understand why MS didn't specify at least a 1080 screen on the RT
I think it's because of a long development cycle. The Surface specs were probably finalized some time last year, when 1280x800 tablets (and the $499 price) were still the norm. The low-priced KFs and N7s didn't exist then.
BTW, here's a good read on Steven Sinofsky, the exec in charge of the whole Windows initiatives, including Surface. His rigid management style, as depicted in the piece, may be the underlying reason for Surface's current state.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57536905-75/steven-sinofsky-microsofts-controversial-mr-windows-8/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think also going with a higher res screen has its tradeoffs - requires more battery consumption(screen is the main factor in battery life) and smoothness of the OS. Isn't this an issue wit hthe Ipda3 vs the Iad 2 - I head battery was worse. My wife has a Nexus 7, and the great thing about it is the OS is snappy, partially because its only a 7 inch screen but running a quad core to drive it.
I know the screen display has become a big issue with Apple - But the Surface is at least better than the Ipad 2 (maybe not the Ipad 3) but again, aren't we all getting caught up in specs without knowing implementation and real world use. Its funny how Apple is focusing on how their screen is better, but they are still running a dual core processor, and fall short in so many other areas including usb, micro SD. But one thing I am curious about is implementation of USB devices on RT - how compatible will it be considering there may not be drivers for everything.
I do agree with MS that resolution alone isn't everything - Contrast has a lot to do with it. I am still running a 2005 50" Panasonic plasma at home that is only 720p but I have to tell you it looks just as good as some cheap 1080ps I have seen lately. There's the same argument when it comes to megapixel counts on camers with cheap CMOS (More is not always better).
We have to remember we are also just talking about a 10" screen.
I have my 64gb Surface with touch cover on orderand will have on or before 26th (Ordered it before the backorder came on). I Am curious what the return policy is for Microsoft Online store if this thing turns out to be a dud after all.
>I know the screen display has become a big issue with Apple - But the Surface is at least better than the Ipad 2 (maybe not the Ipad 3)
This is PR spin coming out of MS. Nobody knows how Surface RT fares in a head-to-head match against iPad 2/3, because MS still hasn't let anyone review it. May be the spin is right, and may be not, but I'd rather hear it from a less biased source.
Anyway, the spin falls apart when one considers that MS is pricing the RT against iPad 3 (actually higher than the 3), not the 2.
>aren't we all getting caught up in specs without knowing implementation and real world use
Sure, geeks tend to obsess with specs. Regular Joes care about other things, like screen image, size/weight/style, brand, price, and apps. RT loses in most if not all these categories.
>Its funny how Apple is focusing on how their screen is better, but they are still running a dual core processor, and fall short in so many other areas including usb, micro SD.
I thought we weren't going to talk about specs. About that, you do realize that the Teg3 used in Surface RT is a year-old design that's now used in the $200 Nexus 7, right? You also realize that the Exynos 5 dual blows away the Teg3 quad, right?
>I do agree with MS that resolution alone isn't everything - Contrast has a lot to do with it.
Here's a counterpoint: If low-res is just as good as high-res, then why not put the same low-res on Surface Pro?
Yes, the PPI thing is partly a marketing thing, just as was the megahertz war of yore. Part of it confers real benefits, part of it is hype. But understand that MS is pooh-pooh'ing high-res display because its own product use dated components. Surface RT has 2011 parts, and MS simply didn't keep up with the fast pace of advancing technology.
>I Am curious what the return policy is for Microsoft Online store if this thing turns out to be a dud after all.
http://google.com/search?q=microsoft+store+return+policy
e.mote said:
>I know the screen display has become a big issue with Apple - But the Surface is at least better than the Ipad 2 (maybe not the Ipad 3)
This is PR spin coming out of MS. Nobody knows how Surface RT fares in a head-to-head match against iPad 2/3, because MS still hasn't let anyone review it. May be the spin is right, and may be not, but I'd rather hear it from a less biased source.
Anyway, the spin falls apart when one considers that MS is pricing the RT against iPad 3 (actually higher than the 3), not the 2.
>aren't we all getting caught up in specs without knowing implementation and real world use
Sure, geeks tend to obsess with specs. Regular Joes care about other things, like screen image, size/weight/style, brand, price, and apps. RT loses in most if not all these categories.
>Its funny how Apple is focusing on how their screen is better, but they are still running a dual core processor, and fall short in so many other areas including usb, micro SD.
I thought we weren't going to talk about specs. About that, you do realize that the Teg3 used in Surface RT is a year-old design that's now used in the $200 Nexus 7, right? You also realize that the Exynos 5 dual blows away the Teg3 quad, right?
>I do agree with MS that resolution alone isn't everything - Contrast has a lot to do with it.
Here's a counterpoint: If low-res is just as good as high-res, then why not put the same low-res on Surface Pro?
Yes, the PPI thing is partly a marketing thing, just as was the megahertz war of yore. Part of it confers real benefits, part of it is hype. But understand that MS is pooh-pooh'ing high-res display because its own product use dated components. Surface RT has 2011 parts, and MS simply didn't keep up with the fast pace of advancing technology.
>I Am curious what the return policy is for Microsoft Online store if this thing turns out to be a dud after all.
http://google.com/search?q=microsoft+store+return+policy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regarding return policy - I guess I was looking for a more real world understanding from someone. Had previously read the official, and it basically says that if its a computer, which it is, and it has been opened, then they won't take it back. So basically we are all screwed if we don't like this thing after opening it and bought it from Microsoft online.
not a very good return policy.
Nobody really knows about MS return policy, because this is the first time MS is selling a whole computer (as opposed to just peripherals). I think your best bet is to phone or go to a MS store and get the low-down on Oct 26.
Really, if you're unsure, just don't get RT on launch day. Wait for reviews, and to see what other choices are there. There'll be lots. Personally, I think once Clovertrail tabs show up at $499, that'll be the best option for Win users who want regular Windows on a tablet.
BTW, news peeps who went to the MS Surface "Hardware R Us" shindig have all gotten a Surface RT unit for review, and NDA should be lifted today (Tues Oct 23), so we should have a better idea of what Win RT is shortly.
e.mote said:
Really, if you're unsure, just don't get RT on launch day. Wait for reviews, and to see what other choices are there. There'll be lots. Personally, I think once Clovertrail tabs show up at $499, that'll be the best option for Win users who want regular Windows on a tablet.
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Or AMD-Z60 as it should be cheaper has more graphics ability (run call of duty at 30fps) and has better support for bluestacks. That said it uses more power gets hotter and needs more airflow.
Now that NDA is lifted, looks like the first Surface RT review is up. Unsurprising verdict: Still too many unknowns.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/23/microsoft-surface-rt-review/