Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
Well, screensize is a matter of personal preference. Millions of iphoners can attest to that.
I, personally, won't pass judgement on the Titan's screen until I see it in person.
Based on what you've posted, I'd recommend either waiting for Nokia devices or take a look at Samsung Focus S when it hits.
Although, I do agree that OEMS have been less than forthcoming with their cutting edge devices thus far. The Venue Pro could have been such an animal had it not had a myriad of issues early on.
Okbye.
yes because every single android device has monster specs and doesn't try to market to different audiences increasing share and permeability...
seriously this iteration is Microsoft and OEMs using different market points to create presence and alternatives
Dual core is next year, so either wait or not buy it...it's that simple
I think the screen sizes between 3.5 and 4.0 are awesome :-D just the way I want the screens to be;-) still hoped for some dual core, but wp is designed especially for one type of processor, so It's probably therefore it is still singlecore
sent with love from me to you
domineus said:
yes because every single android device has monster specs and doesn't try to market to different audiences increasing share and permeability...
seriously this iteration is Microsoft and OEMs using different market points to create presence and alternatives
Dual core is next year, so either wait or not buy it...it's that simple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is Microsoft thinks that WP7 sales were slack because the handsets were too expensive. The reality is the handsets were a year (or more) out of date before they hit the shelves. They were pushing 3G phones with a series 1 CPU and no FFC in stores next to high end 4G phones with all the accessories. Now all we have are these puny low res screens on underpowered phones! Shameful!
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
andrewkeith5 said:
Cut for size
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just wanted to come to this thread and say: Amen, brotha.
You couldn't have explained it better.
Xodium said:
I just wanted to come to this thread and say: Amen, brotha.
You couldn't have explained it better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! You can probably tell that little rant has been brewing up for quite some time reading some of the posts on here!
mlococo said:
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Guess what's going to happen when iPhone 5 hits? Long lines and a sellout.
Guess what's going to happen when the second generation of WP7 phones hit? Short lines and overstock.
mlococo said:
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sort of agree, but only a little. For WP7 to be successful, they need to push out some hardware that blows people away. Not necessarily in specs, but in design. The new Focus S or whatever it will be called is pretty impressive, but they need to stop developing behind the curve and start innovating on some hardware. Maybe that's MS's plan with Nokia and the newly signed HTC and Samsung contracts. I know that WP7 will outperform a dual-core Android with nothing more than a few generation past snapdragon, but why not throw in a dual-core anyway? My Focus is buttery smooth 99% of the time, but a dual-core and some extra RAM will speed up app loading immensely.
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey buddy, please correct your words...we didn't say that WP7 running on single core is slow,please get us right...the reason why we want dual-core is more future proof...
future proof,read it again...microsoft has disappointed me twice since I just love WP7 like you,1st is the HTC HD2 and it can't run a real or proper WP7 due to microsoft don't want to support it.Then,i went for Mozart just for wp7,and now Microsoft says that only one major update per year, therefore, I don't think mozart is up for the next update no new feature,secondary camera, gyroscope for better augmented reality, kinect integration&etc....
So, get us right,before you write man...everyone knows that WP7 is fast on single core,but no future proof...not everyone is rich a$$ and able to buy new mobile phone every year. We want something can last for at least 2 years.
Specs > Design. If Nokia ships phones with Titan/Focus S specs they will not be able to attract the amount of conversions they need.
What Microsoft needs is conversions, not turnover.
Conversion: Android/iOS/WebOS/BB users switching to WP7.
Turn-Over: Us upgrading because we want more up-to-date handsets.
Android got where it is because it was able to convert a ton of Windows Mobile/BB/WebOS and even some iOS people to Android, not through turn-over.
Cute phones don't make those people come to WP7, when the internals are a year or more behind the competition. It's not just about power. Newer SoCs allow for LTE and faster HSPA+ data connections (this is why T-Mobile is using a Qualcomm instead of Exynos in their Galaxy S II). It allows for high-def Video Chatting. NFC. WiFi Direct. Bluetooth 3.0, etc.
Keep in mind, a lot of those features were on phones a year ago.
Microsoft's hardware specs have really held OEMs back. Part of the reason why Advertising for WP7 is so bad is cause the carriers and OEMs are really struggling to find a story to tell. The handsets, even if the design is nice, simply won't have that with the way Microsoft keeps the OEMs on that leash...
And with users come more and better dev support.
I've spend the better part of 3-4 days going through the app market and there's hardly any non-game apps worth installing (outside of some obvious ones, of course). Hardly any of them have been updated to Mango, and there are apps that I paid for which haven't been updated in ~6 months...
Yes, WP7 has to catch up. Software isn't the only way they need to catch up. They need to catch up with device specs as well.
The 4G phones coming to AT&T are 14.4 Mbps HSPA+ devices. The Galaxy S II on AT&T is a 21 Mbps device. T-Mobile's Galaxy S II is a 42 Mbps device, I doubt the Radar 4G will be above 14.4 unless they use an SoC we don't anticipate. The Price of the phones didn't have anything to do with the slow uptake of WP7 on release. The state of the OS had everything to do with that. It's one thing to be told something. It's another thing for people to see what it really performed like when they went in the store (and by performed, I'm not talking about raw speed).
Even now that Mango is out. So little apps are taking advantage of its new features that they need to really push for developers to get on the ball to updating their apps and supporting them. To a consumer trying devices out in a carrier store (only choice for a lot of them, since most of their friends don't have WP7 devices), a lot of Mango's changes seem purely cosmetic because of that. Microsoft haven't even updated most of their own apps on the marketplace for Mango...
N8ter said:
Specs > Design. If Nokia ships phones with Titan/Focus S specs they will not be able to attract the amount of conversions they need.
What Microsoft needs is conversions, not turnover.
Conversion: Android/iOS/WebOS/BB users switching to WP7.
Turn-Over: Us upgrading because we want more up-to-date handsets.
Android got where it is because it was able to convert a ton of Windows Mobile/BB/WebOS and even some iOS people to Android, not through turn-over.
Cute phones don't make those people come to WP7, when the internals are a year or more behind the competition. It's not just about power. Newer SoCs allow for LTE and faster HSPA+ data connections (this is why T-Mobile is using a Qualcomm instead of Exynos in their Galaxy S II). It allows for high-def Video Chatting. NFC. WiFi Direct. Bluetooth 3.0, etc.
Keep in mind, a lot of those features were on phones a year ago.
Microsoft's hardware specs have really held OEMs back. Part of the reason why Advertising for WP7 is so bad is cause the carriers and OEMs are really struggling to find a story to tell. The handsets, even if the design is nice, simply won't have that with the way Microsoft keeps the OEMs on that leash...
And with users come more and better dev support.
I've spend the better part of 3-4 days going through the app market and there's hardly any non-game apps worth installing (outside of some obvious ones, of course). Hardly any of them have been updated to Mango, and there are apps that I paid for which haven't been updated in ~6 months...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true. My sentiments exactly.
Part of it is good: They've added a lot of integrated functionality that reduces the need to install 3rd party apps. Shazam is useless on WP7 for me, for example (just one example).
Part of it is Bad: There are a lot of good apps on other platforms that seem like they don't care, and apps that were released early on, like Twitter/Birdsong that seem to have fallen out of support. Maybe the dev of Birdsong made enough cash and don't feel the need to update the app anymore?
Board Express Pro hasn't updated their app in forever as well, and that's a $3 app.
IMO, if you don't plan on supporting your app in the marketplace, it shouldn't cost anything. I have tended to ignore paid apps (don't even consider them, and don't even look at them) now unless they're a reputable app from a reputable developer. I'll buy BeejiveIM if it comes to WP7, I'll buy TapaTalk if it comes to WP7. If I had to do it again, I wouldn't buy Birdsong or Board Express Pro.
My days paying for apps are numbered. It's the developers' fault, too.
I think a lot of Microsoft's initial goal was Conversion of non-smartphone users. I don't have anything to prove it, but I wouldn't be surprised if a large amount of Android's marketshare comes from mid/low range devices.
N8tr,
Weren't you the one upset in an older thread that "all the apps are mango" and you couldn't use them because mango wasn't officially released yet... And now your upset that not enough apps are mango...
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
mlococo said:
The problem is Microsoft thinks that WP7 sales were slack because the handsets were too expensive. The reality is the handsets were a year (or more) out of date before they hit the shelves. They were pushing 3G phones with a series 1 CPU and no FFC in stores next to high end 4G phones with all the accessories. Now all we have are these puny low res screens on underpowered phones! Shameful!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh yes and the incredible spec'd devices that were on windows mobile were blockbusters in the market
Microsoft again will lose money if this is all about a specs war, and specs weren't the reason why android was (and is) successful. It's a part, but not the complete package.
Android is diverse enough to reach several different price points to be pawned and given away for pennies. In America, that's important. The only one that feels the need to compare the specs is a bunch of idiots like you and me to see who has the bigger e credit
And I bet anyone on xda devs has done that once
But guess what? We're a growing population, but we are still a blip in comparison to the mass consumer. Go on, ask anyone if spec's matter. To many the answer is possibly, but when a person is selling a phone, they don't say
Hi this phone has a 1.5 gig dual core qhd screen.
They dumb it down to make it sound nice. If you speak techie 24x7 selling a phone, not many sales occur. Again, its about the casual customer.
That said, looking at the price points for android devices that are priced and have similar hardware to windows phone, windows phone does provide a far greater out of box experience. That matters, and it is a large reason why many ditched windows mobile and palm in favor for the iphone flavor in 2007.
Windows Phone has to be popular, and that is a key deterrent in both apple and android's success. This year is the year of getting Windows on equal footing with Android and apple in competitive pricing. Next year is popularity, and ironically, a lot of users will be looking to renew their contracts in America...that matters too
In other words
wait or use a different phone if you're after specs...It's what I used to tell my customers all the time
munkeyphyst said:
N8tr,
Weren't you the one upset in an older thread that "all the apps are mango" and you couldn't use them because mango wasn't officially released yet... And now your upset that not enough apps are mango...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about N8ter, but I complained before the official release, when Microsoft was pushing Mango updates into the marketplace, and their policy was that any app updated to Mango caused the NoDo version to be locked (no more updates allowed). We didn't know how long it would be until the official release, and we didn't know how many NoDo apps would be dead-ended in the interim.
But now Mango is officially out, and Microsoft has admitted that their policy was a bad idea and reversed it. So now everyone wins. People with Mango can get Mango apps, and people with NoDo can continue to receive updates (at least until their numbers are so few that it no longer makes sense).
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more, I think 16GB is plenty for almost all needs
MartyLK said:
I agree. Guess what's going to happen when iPhone 5 hits? Long lines and a sellout.
Guess what's going to happen when the second generation of WP7 phones hit? Short lines and overstock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
because of the fact that all the iNaives out there don't know better. people need to stop holding Microsoft to a higher standard than google and apple. the iOS5 betas so far have been unstable on the iPhone4 when compared to mango, also apple may not even release the iPhone 5 but more of a rehash of the iPhone 4,I've seen ur trolling on pocketnow over the mango update and u are just plain wrong, ur just mad because mango doesn't include ur precious Google- integration.
N8ter said:
The 4G phones coming to AT&T are 14.4 Mbps HSPA+ devices. The Galaxy S II on AT&T is a 21 Mbps device. T-Mobile's Galaxy S II is a 42 Mbps device, I doubt the Radar 4G will be above 14.4 unless they use an SoC we don't anticipate. The Price of the phones didn't have anything to do with the slow uptake of WP7 on release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and this matters how? at&t,tmobile and vz all have data caps, what good is 42mbps when u can't even use them without being slowed or overcharged?
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who are you to decide what screen size is good for me?
"IS NOT NECESSARY" - who gave you the right to decide what is necessary? Don't be a smartass
Related
Time to move to the dark side (3g iphone)
Ok guys I’ve been a follower of windows mobile now for the last 5 years. Xda, vario 2 & kaiser. But now the 3g phone is upon us I really think its time for us all to move on to a much superior phone and os. Microsoft have totally neglected the windows mobile platform that apple take very seriously. Microsoft even has to rely on a 3rd party developer in opera to release a browser that’s half usable!
Ok I admit the htc diamond, touch pro and Sony xperia do tempt me to stay with windows mobile but even with the fancy 3d interface they can’t hide the fact that it’s still using the very annoying and laggy 6.1 platform.
I’m constantly having problems with freezing on all my handsets and yes before you ask I always make sure I have enough free memory. It also totally pissed me off how htc treated us Kaiser Users with not supporting the device with 3d drivers does it really have 3d acceleration? One of the main reasons I chose this phone over the iphone was because I thought developers would start using the 3d capabilities.
Browsing the internet on the iphone is a total joy with the large screen and even though its only 0.7 inches bigger it feels huge compared to 2.8 Ok so the new diamond has a vga display 640x480 compared to the iphone 480x320 but it doesn’t matter how large the resolution is if we have to cram everything onto a small 2.8
And moving onto internal memory. How the hell do htc expect to compete with iphone with only giving the diamond none expandable internal memory of 4gig? Rofl jokers! How much does it cost them to put an extra 4 gig in to at least compete with the iphone 8gig? Maybe £10 extra considering 8gig micro sd cards only cost £20?? Talk about cost saving and maximum profit! I would love to have at least 16gig so I don’t have carry 2 devices, phone+mp3 player.
Ok sorry guys if I sound angry its just that I used to really love the windows mobile platform and I’ve not totally decided yet if I will get the iphone as I really don’t want to commit to 18 month contract with o2 in the uk and I know for a fact if 12 months time a new better version of iphone will be released
I have lots of hope for windows mobile version 7 and future htc devices but I really don’t want to wait that long before I can upgrade. But then again if I get a diamond or xperia then maybe I can just upgrade the rom to version 7 in the future? Gosh so much to think about! Getting a new phone has never been so complicated with so many dilemmas! Hehe
Anyway I better end this before I go on all night and ask you guys what’s your opinion of the new windows mobile phones there software and how they compare to the iphone?
dont let the door hit you on your way out.
my friend my ony bit of advice would be to think about which fits you better iphonies or winmo devices then make your decision from that. i think its almost like comparing a taxi and a police car they appear to be the same but are meant for two totally different things. the difference that i know is that winmo phones targets mostly business types and iphonies are for a more general consumer and about that gb thing iphonie was meant to be used also as an ipod winmo devices arent really meant to be used as zunes they do have some of the capabilities though as far as whether they should be headed in that direction is a whole different can of worms i hope that made a little since and good luck with your decision my only question is if you may be on your way out the door on to iphonies why in the h e double hockey sticks would you join a winmo based community lol your 15 mins?
Prodigal Son
We'll see you back here in a couple of months once you're bored out your face with the iphone...While your enjoying the music,pictures and the touch screen on you iphone , we'll be developing real useful things for our mobile devices....C'mon You know this already......
navymarvin said:
i think its almost like comparing a taxi and a police car they appear to be the same but are meant for two totally different things. the difference that i know is that winmo phones targets mostly business types and iphonies are for a more general consumer and about that gb thing iphonie was meant to be used also as an ipod winmo devices arent really meant to be used as zunes they do have some of the capabilities though as far as whether they should be headed in that direction is a whole different can of worms i hope that made a little since and good luck with your decision my only question is if you may be on your way out the door on to iphonies why in the h e double hockey sticks would you join a winmo based community lol your 15 mins?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow! What a long sentence!
navymarvin said:
my friend my ony bit of advice would be to think about which fits you better iphonies or winmo devices then make your decision from that. i think its almost like comparing a taxi and a police car they appear to be the same but are meant for two totally different things. the difference that i know is that winmo phones targets mostly business types and iphonies are for a more general consumer and about that gb thing iphonie was meant to be used also as an ipod winmo devices arent really meant to be used as zunes they do have some of the capabilities though as far as whether they should be headed in that direction is a whole different can of worms i hope that made a little since and good luck with your decision my only question is if you may be on your way out the door on to iphonies why in the h e double hockey sticks would you join a winmo based community lol your 15 mins?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea i agree, winmo devices are def. more business oriented while the iphone is just for anyone that can use a phone...and plus it's apple!
you yourself call it the "darkside", so i dont think that be a good move...winmo is the "force"
I think its funny you just joined, and your first post is this...
I'm right there with you though, kaiser (tilt) is gone as soon as the 3g iphone is out.
I love everything winmo can do, but iphone does it out of the box. Atleast what I want it for, except mms(wtf?).
There will be tons of apps out for it soon enough, and im sure plenty of them will do the same type of things winmo can do.
caned said:
Time to move to the dark side (3g iphone)
Ok guys I’ve been a follower of windows mobile now for the last 5 years. Xda, vario 2 & kaiser. But now the 3g phone is upon us I really think its time for us all to move on to a much superior phone and os. Microsoft have totally neglected the windows mobile platform that apple take very seriously. Microsoft even has to rely on a 3rd party developer in opera to release a browser that’s half usable!
Ok I admit the htc diamond, touch pro and Sony xperia do tempt me to stay with windows mobile but even with the fancy 3d interface they can’t hide the fact that it’s still using the very annoying and laggy 6.1 platform.
I’m constantly having problems with freezing on all my handsets and yes before you ask I always make sure I have enough free memory. It also totally pissed me off how htc treated us Kaiser Users with not supporting the device with 3d drivers does it really have 3d acceleration? One of the main reasons I chose this phone over the iphone was because I thought developers would start using the 3d capabilities.
Browsing the internet on the iphone is a total joy with the large screen and even though its only 0.7 inches bigger it feels huge compared to 2.8 Ok so the new diamond has a vga display 640x480 compared to the iphone 480x320 but it doesn’t matter how large the resolution is if we have to cram everything onto a small 2.8
And moving onto internal memory. How the hell do htc expect to compete with iphone with only giving the diamond none expandable internal memory of 4gig? Rofl jokers! How much does it cost them to put an extra 4 gig in to at least compete with the iphone 8gig? Maybe £10 extra considering 8gig micro sd cards only cost £20?? Talk about cost saving and maximum profit! I would love to have at least 16gig so I don’t have carry 2 devices, phone+mp3 player.
Ok sorry guys if I sound angry its just that I used to really love the windows mobile platform and I’ve not totally decided yet if I will get the iphone as I really don’t want to commit to 18 month contract with o2 in the uk and I know for a fact if 12 months time a new better version of iphone will be released
I have lots of hope for windows mobile version 7 and future htc devices but I really don’t want to wait that long before I can upgrade. But then again if I get a diamond or xperia then maybe I can just upgrade the rom to version 7 in the future? Gosh so much to think about! Getting a new phone has never been so complicated with so many dilemmas! Hehe
Anyway I better end this before I go on all night and ask you guys what’s your opinion of the new windows mobile phones there software and how they compare to the iphone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I-Phone= Fun device for people who want to be told what to do (and yes it does kick Windows Mobile device in functionality from here to India).
Win Mo Phones= Not being told what to do
I my friend am not a replicant.
Is this person trying to advertise to us or what? First post ever is this?? Have fun with your still limited iPhone. Forget about internal memory, my 160MB is more than enough for all my apps with over 50 left, I'll use an 8GB SDHC for all my music and movies, and if I want more memory, I'll use another! But, can anyone honestly tell me why this phone might be better? This new model pretty much hits the bottom of the list on what our devices have been doing.
Moving On...U were never Here! Good Luck if U ever have to replace the battery!
It’s funny how some people look on the iphone as the evil enemy without even giving it a chance. You see the same in many other formats, Intel vs amd, ati vs NVIDIA or even the Xbox 360 vs ps3. Some people pick a side and follow it almost like a religion even when the product is totally out done by the opposition. Intel vs amd is a good example. Why would anyone buy an amd processor at the moment is beyond me lol but they still do! amd kicked arse a few years back I must admit.
I’m still very tempted to try the touch pro as it looks a very nice phone that can be expanded to 8gig with micros sd but I guess lots of damage was done with all the problems I had with my Kaiser. Let’s hope roms of the htc diamond improve and we get a nice speedy interface similar to the iphone.
I didn’t mean to make this post sound like a I hate windows mobile I think Microsoft’s only just realised how important this market is so I have high hopes for windows mobile 7 and new htc devices in late 2008 early 2009 and the new NVIDIA apx2500 chip looks amazing! Check this out!
The CPU integrates an Ultra Low Power GeForce GPU that supports both OpenGL ES 2.0 and Direct3D Mobile, to provide sophisticated 3D interfaces. The design, based on the ARM11 750MHz processor, will be built on a 65nm manufacturing process and sport 256KB of level 2 cache.
According to the company, the APX 2500 device can play 10 hours of video or 100 hours of audio from a single charge of an iPhone-size battery.
Perhaps controversially, the APX 2500 CPU will only support Windows Mobile. Humber confirmed that this was a marketing, rather than technical choice. "We feel that Windows Mobile is placed for real growth right now
If only we had windows mobiles devices with this chip now as it really would kick the iphones ass!
I was once torn as you but now with the touch pro on the way, we will have everything we ever needed! The touch flo will be perfected, the ram, the mhz, the keyboard... Finally an interface (touchflo 3d) that is smooth! (we hope better than the diamond) And I'm sorry to say as many of you are GSM lovers including myself, if the touch pro hits the Sprint CDMA network with REV-A, That baby is gonna blaze with apps like youtube, and video streaming like sling box, etc, etc. better camera with flash, same size as tilt (almost) which was a great size for what it was packing! I truly feel that the touch pro will open the doors wide open for WM in 2008. Carriers like at&t and sprint would be fools not to pick this device up. I am sure it will be a hit any all the major carriers will have it. You will see!
iPhone is an iPhone and Windows mobile phone is a windows mobile phone. Stop comparing between WM devices and iPhones. WM devices are great but sometimes it tends to hang every now and then. iPhone seems to be too sweet but then it doesn't over the versatility of a phone (unless you're more into multimedia oriented ). flame me if you wish , its just like comparing apples and oranges together.
I am in the same situation as Caned's. I, too have been a windows mobile believer for as lomg as I can remember. I started with Casio cassiopeia, then a HP Ipaq, then a Blue Angel, then a Wizard, then a Hermes and now with a Kaiser for 10 months or so. I must admit the OS has barely been improved over the past err... 10 years (!), I agree with Caned it has been neglected by MS and I am now fed up of it. IE is appalling, and although there are alternatives to IE, they tend to run in a sluggish way (Opera Mobile) or have serious limitations (OperaMini, for example).
To Apple's credit, the iPhone has changed the way people view and use their phone, and although its market share is very low (Apple is not even among the top 5 mobile manufacturers in the US where its popularity is atits highest), it led mobile phone manufacturers to reconsider what a mobile phone stands for.
For the first time in 10 years I am now thinking of leaving WinMobile and switching to an alternative with a much more user-friendly, attractive OS. The iPhone 3G fits the bill. I never thought much of the iPod when it was released, but I won a nano recently and I must admit I am impressed.
The only thing that stops me from queing on 11/07 outside a O2 store here in the UK is the inability to use the iPhone as a 3G modem with my laptop. I can live with all other limitations of the phone (cant send MMS, camera of only 2MP, text forwarding) and the various ways in which the iPhone delivers a superior user experience relative to HTC phones. WM6.1 was supposed to improve WM6 which was (supposedly) better than WM5 which itself was (supposedly) better than WM2003SE and WM2003. Comparing WM2003 with WM6.1, I can hardly see the difference..!
Sorry guys, but talking to some who defected to the iPhone from winmobile do not regret the switch. Lets see what comes next, but it is time for MS to put its money where its mouth is and deliver a product that, finally matches the user experience delivered by competitors.
On the "lighter side" of things, I remember going to the "dark side" of winmo from my palm lifedrive, because I only wanted one device. So, I guess "ds" is a matter of perspective. Symbian, or android, anyone? jk, I like wm6.1 for now
i've been using wm for like 8 years now. the only time i moved to "the dark side" was when i tried out the nokia n95. but as per my signature below, i saw the light and moved back to wm =)
Uh, you will be missed..
This seems like a reoccurring post here. My original response to a similar thread:
The iPhone is still just for the 12 and under crowd and hippies too dumb to understand WM based phones. We will always need the iPhone for the same reason we will always need the big tag on the hair dryer telling us not to use it in the tub!
I have to agree with Caned here, whatever is released by HTC etc is just the same old windows mobile skinned up. Until v7 with multi touch comes out and the devices are built to support it then I think its time to look elsewhere for a while - probably an N96 in my case. I have no doubt that I'll be back for another WinMo device but I don't think it will be before the huge overhaul that M$ have been promising for months/years. The only aspect that makes WinMo vaguely usable is that people here write such amazing additions for it and give us access to ROM updates that networks etc don't want us to have.
In short, M$/HTC started a great trend for devices that cover all needs, unfortunately M$ slowed development and the competition (Apple/Symbian) have caught up/overtaken.
Hi,
I was looking at the iSuppli figures for the new iPhone 3GS and the Pal Pre and looking at the specifications of those phones it seems like they heavily outweigh even newer devices like touch pro 2 which cost like 30% or more. The Pre and the 3GS have
Much better application processors. ARM Cortex 8 approximately 50-70% faster than the ones in omnia
Separate Applications and Base Band Processors
Capacitive touch screens
16 Million color screens
Higher capacity and quality NAND memory
Considering that these manufacturers are also including costs of R&D for their OS in the phone price as well while manufacturers like HTC, Samsung and Acer just build shells for Windows Mobile which should be a lot cheaper how are the higher prices justified?
Another thing, people from HTC have been complaining for some time now that an 18bit color more would be too much of a hit/not possible in Winmo and are still sticking to 16bit while with the upcoming Omnia pro and Omnia II Samsung is using 24bit and 18bit respectively. The only thing better about Winmo device screens is the higher resolution.
The only thing besides hardware for Windows phone manufacturers is case design and shell development. Do you think that undercutting quality of parts without much justification is ok? I would like to hear what long time users think of it.
PS: Got 3GS and Pre information from http://www.cellular-news.com/story/37945.php
Constructive comments please
Thanks
[QUOTE Do you think that undercutting quality of parts without much justification is ok? [/QUOTE]
I don´t think it´s ok.
I decided to stay in HTC line devices for one great reason that makes the diference: XDA-DEVS!!!!
Without this great site I might turn my interest on Toshiba new devices, even with WM.
I don´t have any good comment respect the others OS...
Perhaps Android in a mid-future term...
They ask as much as possible for a device. Actually that's the reason I'd never really buy the rhodium. HTC always releases devices with a little flaw they fix in the next device (but make a new flaw, like FM radio in rhodium). What we need isn't that much: (F)WVGA, Tegra/Snapdragon/OMAP, 5-8 megapixel camera WITH flash and such others. I hope that Acer F1 is going to rock so I can buy my next device
HTC is a joke. They can only blame themselves and their lousy hardware / drivers for iPhone's being a huge success.
Just heard today the the new iphonie 3gs sold a million units already
Hope HTC gets there sh#t together soon...
to be honest, the only reason i buy htc/winmo devices is this site....and the fact i can get tomtom on it
but now i see tomtom is on the iphone, having used an iphone this week, i can say there are things il ike about it, but its a bit to dumbed down for me i feel, but then, it does just work, and the touchscreen seems to work much better than any htc device i've used
i seriously miss having a flashlight, i mean camera flash on my phone, my old samsung d500 was brilliant in the dark, also miss having a camera that doesn't have wierd blue on it all the time no matter how much i seem to fiddle with it
galaxys said:
Just heard today the the new iphonie 3gs sold a million units already
Hope HTC gets there sh#t together soon...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, the iPhone is ****ingly well done... I have tons of WinMo devices but, for most tasks, I use my iPhone 3G. It's, hardware-wise, so much better than those lame resistive screen-based HTC craps...
And yes, as soon as the 3G S arrives here (in July), I'll be among the first to purchase it. I love gaming on these things.
true. i am tired of defending htc with my friends who have iphone. even the new palm pre which i tested today is so sweet. the screen jumps at u. i loved it
when my contract is up next month i am so buying an iphone.
the only reason i stayed so long is XDA and the tweaking i could do. kept me interested but now i dnt have time to be tweaking.
i want a phone that works and does what it needs to do without constant resetting and tweaks from XDA
I believe HTC made the best financial choice for this year. Due to Economical situation they know there will less demand on high end devices. Therefore they have not risk any high R&D and expensive parts. They choose already existing platforms and just add few more spec. I believe that is the best way to keep their profit margins!!!! The sad thing is they do have still advantage over the other hardware manufacturers which makes them too confident.
Beside from the Hardware issues on the WinMO I believe it is the OS that keeps all Hardware manufacturer and also Software makers struggle. Window Mobile OS clearly out aged but Microsoft is not fast enough to come up with something NEW and BETTER. Be frank WinMo 6.5 is just a joke. It has no major changes. Win 7 has delayed few times and besides no one knows what going to come out from that development.
Clearly if MS and HTC continue in such way they sure will be losing huge market which we already started to see!!!!!
I know..many WinMo supporters will say compare to WinMo..Iphone can’t do this... Iphone can’t do that. The fact is that 90% consumer that buy a device for 500-900USD don’t wanted spend their entire time to tweak and modify a expensive device to function a bit better!!! Beside most of those are not technical and therefore the learning curve to handle WinMo is much much longer.
I believe as a long term user of WinMo we become use to the limitation of MS OS and hardware so that we already see those as normal. But I do trust that many of us forget that WE PAYING REALLY 500-900 USD for piece of CRAP!!!
We just NEED to see the falling prices of Notebooks and Netbooks then we know how much we over paying for our HTC devices.
"HTC is a joke. They can only blame themselves and their lousy hardware / drivers for iPhone's being a huge success."
Infuckingdeed.
Menneisyys said:
HTC is a joke. They can only blame themselves and their lousy hardware / drivers for iPhone's being a huge success.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was scared that XDA-Devs is a fanboy site, with no rational thinking allowed. Glad to see this isn't the case.
Let's call a spade is a spade - HTC has ridden way too long on the coattails of cheap design, cheap QVGA screens and crap hardware with no or poor drivers, selling for $649 unlocked.
Hey guys,
I'm just curious to see what new products you guys are most looking forward too this coming CES 2011!
Personally, I'm reallllly hoping for the unveiling of a Samsung Galaxy S sucessor (GS2) http://android-addicts.org/news/?p=2909
What are YOU excited for? Is it the onslaught of Honeycomb tablets, new phone unveiling, possible Verizon iPhone, leave a comment!
I'm not necessarily waiting for a specific device but more would like to see what new technology they will show. I'm really excited for dual-core cpu. Also I would like to see some new type of battery technology even if it's still a prototype.
What about HTC´s operating system?
That would make me excited about it!!!
ErOR22 said:
I'm not necessarily waiting for a specific device but more would like to see what new technology they will show. I'm really excited for dual-core cpu. Also I would like to see some new type of battery technology even if it's still a prototype.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes! I'm all for new battery technologies to keep our phones juiced up even with those power hungry dual core CPU's.
Personally Im excited for Tmobile's new phones. Especially the LG OPTIMUS 2X. I cant wait to take advantage of those 4G speeds.
Looking forward to see some WP7 handsets for VZW. Zune HD2. Tablets.
Ford Focus Electric.
Another thing I would love to see is something like dual SD card slot on a phone to allow for more space even though I doubt this will ever happen since manufactures don't really care much about space. Just look at WP7, 8GB is nothing.
looking forward to picking out my next device which will be a honeycomb tegra 2 tablet. Looks like it'll be slim pickins though....
not to mention i am pretty excited just to see honeycomb running on a device.
CES
A Trade fair (trade show, trade exhibition or expo) is an exhibition organized so that companies in a specific industry can showcase and demonstrate their latest products, service, study activities of rivals and examine recent market trends and opportunities. In contrast to consumer fairs, only some trade fairs are open to the public, while others can only be attended by company representatives (members of the trade, e.g. professionals) and members of the press, therefore trade shows are classified as either "Public" or "Trade Only". A few fairs are hybrids of the two; one example is the Frankfurt Book Fair, which is trade-only for its first three days and open to the general public on its final two days. They are held on a continuing basis in virtually all markets and normally attract companies from around the globe. For example, in the U.S. there are currently over 2500[citation needed] trade shows held every year, and several online directories have been established to help organizers, attendees, and marketers identify appropriate events.
assignmenthelps.com
Wow checked out the Ford Focus Electric. I want one!
When it comes to android, you know that you have an outstanding range of hardware. From the low-end Optimus T/S to the titans of the OS such as the Galaxy S2, and everything imaginable in between. These days, you can even find generic china phones running an, often dated, android. Every carrier has it, they come in all price ranges, and they're available on demand. The question I pose to you, "Is android's key selling point the hardware?"
I understand that numerous XDA members and even some outsiders enjoy the limitless customization options made readily available in android and that's awesome. However, the general consumer is happy to end customization at setting their own ringtone. It's not a breaking factor for the majority that you can swap out kernels. Overall, android is a decent enough platform, but for the masses, I see little that it offers, hardware aside, that it's competitors don't.
Here recently, a thread was posted regarding the ASUS Transformer 2, a pentacore processor in a tablet. Now, most people have yet to exhaust the resources on their dual core phones. A penta-core device seems to be pushing the limits. Considering that it is running a mobile OS, by the time those cores could be utilized, wouldn't the tablet be long outdated? However, I know it will sell well because the word "Penta-core" sounds too awesome for the masses to pass up.
Another occurrence I've seen, having worked in retail shops for some time. A lot of customers, when asked about what OS their phone is running, will reply, "HTC" or, "Samsung." A lot of them have no idea what our little green friend is. Another point towards my personal opinion that the hardware is a huge selling factor.
Overall, android is a very complete platform. It is not my daily driver, but I do enjoy it whenever I have time to tinker. I am inquiring about this matter to get your opinions, what sells? Hardware or software?
I think for me its a little bit of both. I like the fact that the hardware is there in my 3d when I need to push the system really hard. Its not often I do, but its good that when I do, it executes the tasks with ease.
On the same hand there are huge software benefits for me. I love the UI and that I can set swype gestures to open particular apps or settings. It makes multi tasking tthat much easier and fluid for me.
Also, at least from what I have seen with iOS5 (my girl has the 4s) is that android seems to be ahead in certain areas of functionality. For example it is not an innovative thing (to me anyways, being an android user) to be able to back up your device without the use of a computer... I have been doing wireless backups and internal backups since I bought my first android phone.
I think one thing you mentioned before... I think it was you, anyways... was pretty much right on when you said that android is capable of meeting so many different needs in the sense that you have a wide range in variety of devices to choose from and at different costs. There are high end phones available such that perform to today's standards in the mobile world, and there are lower end ones available that are more cost effective.
I feel if you yourself are innovative and creative, you are way more capable of taking an android phone and building the UI to what you want/need. I don't sacrifice functionality for speed, ever. In the end it is still just a phone, but I prefer this platform because it caters to that need I have to customize my phone the way I want it to be, not what somebody else feels it should be.
---------- Post added at 02:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 AM ----------
And to address your comment about the bajjillion core tab....
Seems the hardware is way ahead of the software in this case... therefore, I am not impressed by it.
I have a Motorola xoom and it has plenty of power to do what I need it to do. I will not be taking it back to simply have two more cores under the hood. And somebody else mentioned the new kal el device only has 1gb of ram? In my opinion that is really disappointing for a device with that kind of processing power.
i buy phones based on hardware specs
the OS is optional
I prefer to load my OS of choice
just like my PCs / Laptops
z33dev33l said:
When it comes to android, you know that you have an outstanding range of hardware. From the low-end Optimus T/S to the titans of the OS such as the Galaxy S2, and everything imaginable in between. These days, you can even find generic china phones running an, often dated, android. Every carrier has it, they come in all price ranges, and they're available on demand. The question I pose to you, "Is android's key selling point the hardware?"
I understand that numerous XDA members and even some outsiders enjoy the limitless customization options made readily available in android and that's awesome. However, the general consumer is happy to end customization at setting their own ringtone. It's not a breaking factor for the majority that you can swap out kernels. Overall, android is a decent enough platform, but for the masses, I see little that it offers, hardware aside, that it's competitors don't.
Here recently, a thread was posted regarding the ASUS Transformer 2, a pentacore processor in a tablet. Now, most people have yet to exhaust the resources on their dual core phones. A penta-core device seems to be pushing the limits. Considering that it is running a mobile OS, by the time those cores could be utilized, wouldn't the tablet be long outdated? However, I know it will sell well because the word "Penta-core" sounds too awesome for the masses to pass up.
Another occurrence I've seen, having worked in retail shops for some time. A lot of customers, when asked about what OS their phone is running, will reply, "HTC" or, "Samsung." A lot of them have no idea what our little green friend is. Another point towards my personal opinion that the hardware is a huge selling factor.
Overall, android is a very complete platform. It is not my daily driver, but I do enjoy it whenever I have time to tinker. I am inquiring about this matter to get your opinions, what sells? Hardware or software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First time I have to agree with you pal.BUT:
i)Those guys/gals whose customisation needs end with setting the ringtone are the ones who won't care or even won't realize if the OS is different between an iPhone and an Android device.
ii)Android offers most(if not all) of the things other OSes offer,plus the infinite customisation capabilities no other OS has.Now this is what matters for those of us who can do more than changing the ringtone.
Other than these two things,I generally agree.In the end,though,it's user preference that matters.And people's idiocy in fact.Hell,many people buy their phones depending on how many megapixels their camera can do!
AllGamer said:
I prefer to load my OS of choice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd prefer that too, but mobile hardware is pretty much completely closed, so this is not really possible in practice, except maybe on very very few models.
To answer the title question: I don't know about others, but for me it's definitely the OS. Android is the closest to Linux as I'll probably get on a phone, people are free to cook up their own ROMs (not completely free in many cases, there's closed components in every ROM, but oh well), vast customization capabilities, for getting software you're not limited to one store with draconian rules and sometimes arbitrary decisions.
Certainly a combination of software + hardware with a little bit of company preference.
But considering the range of manufacturers for android based phones, I find it hard to lag behind hardware wise.
1) I look for a device that I think will last me the three years of my contract or at least the majority of it
2) I look here on XDA and see what the dev community is like
3) I buy the phone
I would guess that for 80%+ of phone buyers the main factor is price. Sure they know about the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy devices, but for most those phohnes are out of their price bracket. So they find the device which has the same sort of idea but in a cheap package, which has helped Android no end since there are low end Android devices, and Apple have little interest in that.
For myself as a more techie person, I use Android becuase of the freedom to do what i want with my hardware. At least that's why i got into Android. Now I will continue to buy Android devices, but the major reason is I've invested in the app market, I have tens of pounds worth of apps for Android. To jump to anotehr platform now would mean having to start over with that. That's the power of these stores and markets, once you are invested changing platform is a lot more of a jump that just deciding which you like the most at the time.
countstex said:
I would guess that for 80%+ of phone buyers the main factor is price. Sure they know about the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy devices, but for most those phohnes are out of their price bracket. So they find the device which has the same sort of idea but in a cheap package, which has helped Android no end since there are low end Android devices, and Apple have little interest in that.
For myself as a more techie person, I use Android becuase of the freedom to do what i want with my hardware. At least that's why i got into Android. Now I will continue to buy Android devices, but the major reason is I've invested in the app market, I have tens of pounds worth of apps for Android. To jump to anotehr platform now would mean having to start over with that. That's the power of these stores and markets, once you are invested changing platform is a lot more of a jump that just deciding which you like the most at the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen the price comment being made multiple times but aren't these devices pretty close to each other in terms of price after a 2 yr contract? In fact if you shop around, you can find some of these highend units for nearly nothing from online stores such as amazon
As for me, overall package is what sold me to galaxy s2. Form factor, hardware specs, overall implementation of the OS (gpu acceleration various places), etc. Version number really doesn't really bother me (2.3.3 vs 2.3.4/5/6/7) as long as there aren't any key features missing in the current revision that exists in the newer revisions.
Gusar321 said:
I'd prefer that too, but mobile hardware is pretty much completely closed, so this is not really possible in practice, except maybe on very very few models.
To answer the title question: I don't know about others, but for me it's definitely the OS. Android is the closest to Linux as I'll probably get on a phone, people are free to cook up their own ROMs (not completely free in many cases, there's closed components in every ROM, but oh well), vast customization capabilities, for getting software you're not limited to one store with draconian rules and sometimes arbitrary decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HD2 was a great example
then there are many other HTC devices that did the same
and a few Samsung devices as well
and there's the HP Touchpad
and...
For most people it's both.
They're attracted for the first time by the look and find the OS easy to use.
Despite people stating that the iphone is for people who just want to use a smartphone for the first time etc and Android is for techies and geeks to customise, if that were actually true then that would mean that there are a hell of a lot of geeks out there, which obviously isn't the case.
I would guess the majority of Android users' extent of customisation is changing the picture of their wallpaper, and that's the thing, with Android you can do that, it's easy to use, with the extra buttons it can seem more logical to new users compared with the single button on the iphone for instance.
It has the "apps and the wifis" that average users want, it looks good and you can make it look pretty much how you like.
Being able to just plug it into another computer and transfer files is a huge boon too, something a colleague was very disappointed with the iphone4 because of it's lack of ability.
There is 500+ android devices on the market globally, its the brand name and hardware specs that sell. Not the os.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I'd rather say that that none of those sell the other: it's actually the price selling both, plus the "status symbol" factor thatbhas to do with Apple things. Androids are generally cheaper then both the iPhone and WP7 phones. This, plus the fact that most people don't seem to like WP7 tiled ui, basically because it doesn't "look like an iPhone" enough. That might sound harsh, like saying that most people are dumb, but it's not (only) that actually: people got used to icons since the day they got their first pc, no wonder they go for something that looks more familiar to them when they wanna buy a smartphone. Maybe Win8 will totally change the name of the game, but that's it for the moment (sadly enough I dare say).
I think we have to remember that 'most' people don't include the tiny fraction of the consumer market that are active on XDA. We make choices on a range of factors as we are better informed about both hardware and software. When we walk into a phone shop we want to assess the phone on build quality, size, Android version, display type, etc.
When the average punter walks into the same shop their buying choice usually boils down to no more than, 'Oh look, a shiny thing. I want that one'.
.
Thread moved to Android. Would advise you to read forum rules and post in correct section.
Failure to comply with forum rules will result in an infraction and/or ban depending on severity of rule break.
Do you review the content of my threads before moving them or do you see my name and play pin the tail on the donkey with the final location of the thread?
I can't believe the ATI(Adreno in spirit) and Nvidia(Tegra 1,2,3) battle is now in the mobile era, although the cpu core race is even more daunting...
It was not that long ago when 1 core dominated the market, but now we have Dualcores & Quadcores...My issue with this change is that I don't feel either are exactly required; for instance, WP7 & iOS are faster than Android, but are able to run on older hardware. And lets not forget the iPhones normally run at surprisingly low speeds, however they can get a lot done still.
I mean Samsung's SIII has a Quadcpu, but I doubt that's even necessary, what's wrong with staying in the dualcore/single range and focusing on improving the UI and general performance!?
I know I'm gonna get a lot of backlash for thinking this way, but developers will be lazy with programming if they know the HW will run whatever crap they throw at it. It's just hard to understand the logic behind increasing the core count/speed without actually fixing the problems that plagued the software(android in this case) , if you just take the time to fix the quirks then the device will run smoother. Though, it just seems companies are just interested in marketing gimmicks that most end users won't actually notice, plus most dual cores(S3, exynos,T2, etc) are competent with intensive apps.
The race for now is to produce phones with the most potential. Quad cores, when correctly optimized anyway, have much higher processing capacity and much lower power consumption when doing trivial tasks. The goal is to create interfaces that don't stutter or lag no matter how much you have going on and do so efficiently. There's also the backing of chipsets like the Tegra for high-end mobile entertainment. The end game is superphones, and the game is well afoot.
As to the necessity of it, just depends. I think most business users will be fine on dual core offerings with plenty of ram and a well-implemented overall system. For those who like to max their phones out the possibilities of the high-end development coming out is pretty great. Think about something like the Note with enough processing ability to act as a full input tablet for graphic designers, or that allows programmers to run and edit complex code on the go instead of having to drag a full-size tablet around with them. Think about doctors or researchers being able to monitor multiple sets of real-time data directly from their phones. There's certainly a market for all this, and I don't think it's an arms race just for the sake of showing off.
My $.02; hope that was all coherent.
MissionImprobable said:
The race for now is to produce phones with the most potential.
There's certainly a market for all this, and I don't think it's an arms race just for the sake of showing off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your points are all valid, but I still fear that the Software remains on a level much lower than the hardware; there are tons of Android configurations out there that prevent High Quality HW from performing optimally, due to this, the "potential" of certain devices may never be recognized.
I understand that more cores promotes a sense of efficiency and less power draws, but this tends to lead programmers to optimizing less often. Sense 3.0 was extremely sluggish, same with 4.0, but do you notice the trend? Both Sense 3/4 were made for fast SoCs, to my surprise the result was still horrid. And for your point about the mini tablet(Note), I personally feel you would see those types of Apps on iOS devices instead. For the sake of it, I don't want you to think I am an Apple fan boy(just playing devil's advocate).
Maybe those were the kind of things you only saw on Apple previously, but clearly Samsung and others are serious about competing with them.
I am on a bent for the new Google phones that are going to be being produced. Now, I am not the largest fan of quad core yet but I see great potential in dual cores. Like for running Ubuntu Android, an Ubuntu desktop from your phone to a monitor!
These new phones are looking to have 28nm cortex A15 dual core chips, that would be one hot cookie!
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
First, for the dispassionate stuff:
Ace42 said:
but developers will be lazy with programming if they know the HW will run whatever crap they throw at it.
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Developers should be able to be "lazy" with programming: you don't see anyone going back into assembly in order to optimize their programs. Programmer cycles are a lot more valuable than machine cycles, and here more power is a good, not a bad thing.
Ace42 said:
I mean Samsung's SIII has a Quadcpu, but I doubt that's even necessary, what's wrong with staying in the dualcore/single range and focusing on improving the UI and general performance!? ...It's just hard to understand the logic behind increasing the core count/speed without actually fixing the problems that plagued the software(android in this case)
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The "logic" required is elementary economics. A competitive market causes innovation: each firm has to distinguish itself, and match the features of the others in order to stand a chance. Now, some features are more important in consumers' eyes than others, and in particular, core count/speed are very comprehensible, very easy numbers, and viable to innovate. They have to go up asap in order to compete. And so they have.
This does not mean, of course, that your "problems" must remain. In fact, looking at the S3 demos so far, I haven't yet noticed any lag at all, so perhaps they really did "fix" your problems, as you desired.
Now, for the bashing part.
Ace42 said:
My issue with this change is that I don't feel either are exactly required; for instance, WP7 & iOS are faster than Android, but are able to run on older hardware.
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This comes at a cost of so much less customizability. I find WP7 to be particularly guilty of this: only supports 480x800 resolution, no start screen background or landscape? My Launcher 7 is already more powerful than that and, thanks to not attempting any serious 3D stuff, shows no lag at all.
Ace42 said:
And lets not forget the iPhones normally run at surprisingly low speeds, however they can get a lot done still.
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The iPhone, however, makes us pay with user speed as well. Scrolling is slow, in order to maintain the illusion of smoothness, and the simplistic launcher without widgets forces you to switch around and manage everything yourself, getting data only by clicking on the appropriate app. As I hinted at the beginning, people cycles are so much more valuable than computer cycles, and sacrificing the former for the latter is nothing less than a travesty.
Currently mobile phones are more powerful than my laptops and i think this will not change. In the next few years we will have quad-core processors in watches
goompas said:
Currently mobile phones are more powerful than my laptops and i think this will not change. In the next few years we will have quad-core processors in watches
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completely agree
Google sells ads, not software, they don't really give a crap about optimizing it to the max. They leave this dirty job to OEMs, and OEMs want to sell hardware, so they only optimize it for the tiny bit that is strictly necessary in order to sell. They'd rather make better hardware than better software, and no need to blame them: they just do what they know better. Microsoft and Apple instead sell either software or a complete package of both software and hardware, so guess why they care more about it...just my 2 cents. Btw, not that one approach is better than the other, choice is good, you pick what you want.
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vnvman said:
Google sells ads, not software, they don't really give a crap about optimizing it to the max. They leave this dirty job to OEMs... Microsoft and Apple instead sell either software or a complete package of both software and hardware, so guess why they care more about it...just my 2 cents.
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This analysis doesn't make sense (at least, not as gross as it is right now). A company optimizes software when there's some form of competitive pressure, not because they "sell software". Just look at internet explorer: that didn't get seriously worked on for years, until alternative browsers started to become rightfully popular (that is, while microsoft is surely a software company, they still managed not to "give a crap").
Maybe you mean to say that companies only bother to improve something so that it's "good enough" to face off against the competition - and that's pretty much true. For example, after grabbing the market share, apple has only been innovating just hard enough not to be too far behind its competition.
Maybe you also mean to say that companies innovate better, the closer their incentives are aligned with the innovation. This is also true, but highly misleading. For one thing, the factor most affecting one's incentives is not "the thing they are selling", but (you guessed it from above) competition. Selling software or hardware when you have a monopoly, for instance, gives you little or no incentive to innovate (whereas your criteria would've suggested the opposite).
Mind you, I think you are hitting on something; it just requires a much more thorough analysis of the incentives than just "are they selling software or ads?"
And the incentive situation is itself weird. On one hand, android ad profit is (supposedly) pretty low for google, but on the other hand, they are able to delegate the whole manufacturing and execution to other firms. Fewer rewards, but also lower costs. They do have the majority of the phone market right now (getting dangerously close to monopoly there), but this is a fragile equilibrium, with tablets a whole 'nother story. And, since they are dying to get more stock phones out (with those giant "Google" permanant search bars), one can indeed argue that they've started to care not only about selling ads, but the whole damn thing. It's gotten to the point where they need to improve stock itself (and probably the phones too, hence the motorola acquisition + multiple Nexii partnership) in order to improve their ads. And so you see that the incentives may not be nearly as maligned as you'd originally supposed.
I think that we can only benefit from this race
thebobp said:
First, for the dispassionate stuff:
Developers should be able to be "lazy" with programming: you don't see anyone going back into assembly in order to optimize their programs. Programmer cycles are a lot more valuable than machine cycles, and here more power is a good, not a bad thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Being "lazy" is the reason why so many Android apps run poorly across the board; fine, I understand more power allows you to offload more work to the cpu, but that doesn't mean that's the correct method. If I were to make an app for a Dual environment I would specifically make sure each core is sharing the burden. When Dual core phones & Ginger were(and still are) united, the result was simply stunning—Ginger was definitely not optimized for dualcores. And it showed, my Sensation was so laggy under 2.3.x, it was so disheartening to see my single core devices could challenge the dual beast with ease.
thebobp said:
Now, some features are more important in consumers' eyes than others, and in particular, core count/speed are very comprehensible, very easy numbers, and viable to innovate.
This does not mean, of course, that your "problems" must remain. In fact, looking at the S3 demos so far, I haven't yet noticed any lag at all, so perhaps they really did "fix" your problems, as you desired.
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The average consumer doesn't know or can't even comprehend the raw power that certain SoCs are capable of, so I doubt they care if X phone has 2GHz and the other has 1Ghz. Apple normally doesn't boast about the CPU count in commercials, they boast about their OS & siri, that's how they win over millions each year. Everyone and their grandmothers know how flawless iOS is. Now I know I'm bashing Android severely, though I am a long time Android user and these are some of my views.
thebobp said:
This comes at a cost of so much less customizability. I find WP7 to be particularly guilty of this: only supports 480x800 resolution, no start screen background or landscape? My Launcher 7 is already more powerful than that and, thanks to not attempting any serious 3D stuff, shows no lag at all.
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True, WP7 offers the bare minimum when it comes to customization, which is an unfortunate sacrifice for speed. And Microsoft has set HW limitations to prevent fragmentation, which if I may, is devastating the Android market. We have Exynos over there, Snapdragon under there, and Tegra round yonder, and a large variety of screen types.
thebobp said:
The iPhone, however, makes us pay with user speed as well. Scrolling is slow, in order to maintain the illusion of smoothness, and the simplistic launcher without widgets forces you to switch around and manage everything yourself, getting data only by clicking on the appropriate app. As I hinted at the beginning, people cycles are so much more valuable than computer cycles, and sacrificing the former for the latter is nothing less than a travesty.
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Scrolling is slow? Are you using the 1st iPhone or something? Last time I tried my friend's 4S is was quite speedy, iOS has always been the fastest mobile OS available. If memory serves, iOS has also been GPU accelerated since the old days, a feature relatively new to Android and maybe WP7. I pretty sure you can visit every Android forum on XDA & at least 10 users will report that they have lag in X, Y, Z app. However if you did a poll with random iOS users I doubt if you would even find a black sheep.