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I really wanted this to be in a "General Android Hardware Forum" instead of the Xoom specific one, but I am not seeing that area here on XDA.
I am on the fence with my Xoom Wi-Fi and have two more weeks before my Costco 90 day return polity expires. First and foremost, the tablet is paid for and not sitting on some credit card collecting interest. On the other hand, financially right now, after unexpected layoff, I could really use the $750 back in my bank account.
For argument sake however I want to take cost out of the picture. My Xoom Wi-Fi is running the latest Tiamat Kernel, which really expands the devices capabilities.
Pro's: Aamazing community support [Tiamat/etc], MicroSD slot, a standard MicroUSB data connection, a HDMI port that works flawless, and is well built accept for that crappy charging plug.
Con's: This thing is a tank, its heavy as hell and much thicker then other upcoming Android tablets.
Wildcard: Tegra 2.5's and Tegra 3's are rumored to be right around the corner; with fall 2011 release dates. That's three months away.
The Galaxy 10.1 is the perfect size and weight, but not having a MicroSD slot is a deal breaker. The 10.1 also lacks a standard MicroUSB data connection, instead using some BS Samsung proprietary connection. That's total crap, in fact while I am located in the USA, I though that the EU passed some law that mobile devices had to use standard universally used [USB/MiniUSB/MicroUSB] connection ports? In any case, the fact they are forcing people to use some special cable only Samsung uses is almost reason alone to pass on the device. I thought we were past that type of nonsense; it feels so 1990's.
I have heard the 10.1 can output to HDMI, but again requires some special cable and/or adapter, again Samsung using non-standard hardware connections for the fail. Also, its unknown how much community support the device will get. Lastly, the back cover for the 10.1 is a really ugly looking design, made from crap plastic instead of a plain piece of Aluminum.
With the 10.1 off the table, there is nothing else that's currently been announced or is on the market which beats the Xoom. Again, IMO Size and Weight are the only real issues I have right now with my Xoom. The Tiamat Kernel boots slower then molasses, but I am sure that will be fixed in the future and the functionality it adds is worth the boot time wait.
The wildcard is the Tegra 2.5's and Tegra 3's that are rumored to be released in devices by this fall. While I don't have an immediate need for the extra hardware specs, an upgraded CPU never hurts. The problem is while there has been rumors of devices with these chips being released in Fall 2011, we have seen nothing leaked regarding any of these devices. I figured by now we would have something to go on, especially with fall being three months away. Taking into consideration the delay of most Android tablets lately, I am starting to think the next round of devices will not hit stores till December or sometime next year.
To return or not return that is the question. If there was a device that was scheduled to be released before Winter, with the same form factor as the Galaxy 10.1, and build quality and features of the Xoom; I would return the device in a heartbeat. I just don't see that happening right now.
There are rumors of the Xoom 2 this fall, but I doubt we will see that before March of 2012. Also, if the photos leaked online are anything like what the device will be, it looks ugly as hell and just as much of a giant tank. Realistically though, what do you expect from Motorola? It's not like they are the number one most technically advanced manufacture of LCD screens, like you can argue Samsung is right now.
On an unrelated note, anyone else getting really tired of the BS with the rest of the world getting the Galaxy S2 yet, no US carrier has bothered to pick up the device? By the time the Function hits Verizon, the technology in that device will be at a minimum over a year old. That's really obnoxious; its not like it hasn't been out in every other country but the US now for months. Then again, who knows with our look we will end up with some POS looking Galaxy S2 like what happened with the Samsung Fascinate, instead of original sleek looking Galaxy S design everyone else got.
Anyway, I know TL/DL but for those who did, thanks for your input.
EDIT: I am sure the rest of you Android fans will love this one: Verizon [Level II] tech support today stated "We dropped the early upgrade option from all our two year contracts to conform with Apples contractual agreement regarding the iPhone". Call me a conspiracy theorist, but if Verizon did not have the iPhone, we would have the Galaxy S2 by now as well as several other Android phones.
I would say keep it for now. After owning it for awhile, the weight becomes less annoying. I don't think the newer tablets are good enough to take a hit on your time and money.
Thalinor said:
On the other hand, financially right now, after unexpected layoff, I could really use the $750 back in my bank account.
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This is an answer all on its own.
Stealyourface said:
This is an answer all on its own.
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I only glanced at his post lol. OP can wait a few months for something cheaper + better. I am still kinda disappointed with the codec support atm with the xoom.
Stealyourface said:
This is an answer all on its own.
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Click to collapse
+1
Dude I LOVE my Xoom. And I wouldn't trade it for a galaxy tab 10.1 or any other.
That being said- you might want to keep that dough readily accessible.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
If you're questioning it, return it. Especially if you need the money.
My motto is .... "If in doubt, go without"
A tablet is a luxury item, if you need the cash more then rather use it for necessities.
I would return it and wait six months. I saw some news about a cheap tablet that has notebook specs. (Like over 100gigs of memory.) Granted it will be huge, it will also be under $400 and more advanced. I will try to find that link.
Edit: a link
http://www.droid-life.com/2011/06/2...-omap4-processors-clocked-at-1-5ghz/#bXpulseX
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
Thalinor said:
I really wanted this to be in a "General Android Hardware Forum" instead of the Xoom specific one, but I am not seeing that area here on XDA.
I am on the fence with my Xoom Wi-Fi and have two more weeks before my Costco 90 day return polity expires. First and foremost, the tablet is paid for and not sitting on some credit card collecting interest. On the other hand, financially right now, after unexpected layoff, I could really use the $750 back in my bank account.
For argument sake however I want to take cost out of the picture. My Xoom Wi-Fi is running the latest Tiamat Kernel, which really expands the devices capabilities.
Pro's: Aamazing community support [Tiamat/etc], MicroSD slot, a standard MicroUSB data connection, a HDMI port that works flawless, and is well built accept for that crappy charging plug.
Con's: This thing is a tank, its heavy as hell and much thicker then other upcoming Android tablets.
Wildcard: Tegra 2.5's and Tegra 3's are rumored to be right around the corner; with fall 2011 release dates. That's three months away.
The Galaxy 10.1 is the perfect size and weight, but not having a MicroSD slot is a deal breaker. The 10.1 also lacks a standard MicroUSB data connection, instead using some BS Samsung proprietary connection. That's total crap, in fact while I am located in the USA, I though that the EU passed some law that mobile devices had to use standard universally used [USB/MiniUSB/MicroUSB] connection ports? In any case, the fact they are forcing people to use some special cable only Samsung uses is almost reason alone to pass on the device. I thought we were past that type of nonsense; it feels so 1990's.
I have heard the 10.1 can output to HDMI, but again requires some special cable and/or adapter, again Samsung using non-standard hardware connections for the fail. Also, its unknown how much community support the device will get. Lastly, the back cover for the 10.1 is a really ugly looking design, made from crap plastic instead of a plain piece of Aluminum.
With the 10.1 off the table, there is nothing else that's currently been announced or is on the market which beats the Xoom. Again, IMO Size and Weight are the only real issues I have right now with my Xoom. The Tiamat Kernel boots slower then molasses, but I am sure that will be fixed in the future and the functionality it adds is worth the boot time wait.
The wildcard is the Tegra 2.5's and Tegra 3's that are rumored to be released in devices by this fall. While I don't have an immediate need for the extra hardware specs, an upgraded CPU never hurts. The problem is while there has been rumors of devices with these chips being released in Fall 2011, we have seen nothing leaked regarding any of these devices. I figured by now we would have something to go on, especially with fall being three months away. Taking into consideration the delay of most Android tablets lately, I am starting to think the next round of devices will not hit stores till December or sometime next year.
To return or not return that is the question. If there was a device that was scheduled to be released before Winter, with the same form factor as the Galaxy 10.1, and build quality and features of the Xoom; I would return the device in a heartbeat. I just don't see that happening right now.
There are rumors of the Xoom 2 this fall, but I doubt we will see that before March of 2012. Also, if the photos leaked online are anything like what the device will be, it looks ugly as hell and just as much of a giant tank. Realistically though, what do you expect from Motorola? It's not like they are the number one most technically advanced manufacture of LCD screens, like you can argue Samsung is right now.
On an unrelated note, anyone else getting really tired of the BS with the rest of the world getting the Galaxy S2 yet, no US carrier has bothered to pick up the device? By the time the Function hits Verizon, the technology in that device will be at a minimum over a year old. That's really obnoxious; its not like it hasn't been out in every other country but the US now for months. Then again, who knows with our look we will end up with some POS looking Galaxy S2 like what happened with the Samsung Fascinate, instead of original sleek looking Galaxy S design everyone else got.
Anyway, I know TL/DL but for those who did, thanks for your input.
EDIT: I am sure the rest of you Android fans will love this one: Verizon [Level II] tech support today stated "We dropped the early upgrade option from all our two year contracts to conform with Apples contractual agreement regarding the iPhone". Call me a conspiracy theorist, but if Verizon did not have the iPhone, we would have the Galaxy S2 by now as well as several other Android phones.
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to the least claim that 100$ price difference, I think I saw somewhere that US costco is to lower selling price to $499
P00r said:
to the least claim that 100$ price difference, I think I saw somewhere that US costco is to lower selling price to $499
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Click to collapse
Got no beef with the Xoom at all but the Asus Transformer is the same hardware and less money also add that keyboard and you have a netbook. Check it out and if you get the 16gb its 200 less. You will lose nothing in performance. I like my Xoom but I am looking to buy that one as well
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
Thanks for all of the advice. I just flashed my Xoom to stock, relocked and am returning it tonight. First and formost, I need to be responsible and with the the economy the way it is, who knows how long before I will be financially secure again. Second, the 3.2 Honeycomb update info is out and no mention of MicroSd card support. While the Tiamat Kernel supports it, it's not 100% working the way it should be working because the OS really does not support that yet. I also have a huge gripe with the way Motorola has been acting as a company towards the development community.
At this point I am going to hold off on an Android tablet till my finances are in order. I figure by that point there will be Gen 2 Android tablets on the market and I will be glad I waited.
Thanks again for the feedback.
I'd say return it. You can live without your xoom for a while. When you are financially stable again, then you can use the $750 from xoom and use it to buy newer and better tablet.
EDIT: didn't see you last post. Good choice =)
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
Well, screensize is a matter of personal preference. Millions of iphoners can attest to that.
I, personally, won't pass judgement on the Titan's screen until I see it in person.
Based on what you've posted, I'd recommend either waiting for Nokia devices or take a look at Samsung Focus S when it hits.
Although, I do agree that OEMS have been less than forthcoming with their cutting edge devices thus far. The Venue Pro could have been such an animal had it not had a myriad of issues early on.
Okbye.
yes because every single android device has monster specs and doesn't try to market to different audiences increasing share and permeability...
seriously this iteration is Microsoft and OEMs using different market points to create presence and alternatives
Dual core is next year, so either wait or not buy it...it's that simple
I think the screen sizes between 3.5 and 4.0 are awesome :-D just the way I want the screens to be;-) still hoped for some dual core, but wp is designed especially for one type of processor, so It's probably therefore it is still singlecore
sent with love from me to you
domineus said:
yes because every single android device has monster specs and doesn't try to market to different audiences increasing share and permeability...
seriously this iteration is Microsoft and OEMs using different market points to create presence and alternatives
Dual core is next year, so either wait or not buy it...it's that simple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is Microsoft thinks that WP7 sales were slack because the handsets were too expensive. The reality is the handsets were a year (or more) out of date before they hit the shelves. They were pushing 3G phones with a series 1 CPU and no FFC in stores next to high end 4G phones with all the accessories. Now all we have are these puny low res screens on underpowered phones! Shameful!
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
andrewkeith5 said:
Cut for size
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I just wanted to come to this thread and say: Amen, brotha.
You couldn't have explained it better.
Xodium said:
I just wanted to come to this thread and say: Amen, brotha.
You couldn't have explained it better.
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Click to collapse
Thanks! You can probably tell that little rant has been brewing up for quite some time reading some of the posts on here!
mlococo said:
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
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Click to collapse
I agree. Guess what's going to happen when iPhone 5 hits? Long lines and a sellout.
Guess what's going to happen when the second generation of WP7 phones hit? Short lines and overstock.
mlococo said:
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
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Click to collapse
I sort of agree, but only a little. For WP7 to be successful, they need to push out some hardware that blows people away. Not necessarily in specs, but in design. The new Focus S or whatever it will be called is pretty impressive, but they need to stop developing behind the curve and start innovating on some hardware. Maybe that's MS's plan with Nokia and the newly signed HTC and Samsung contracts. I know that WP7 will outperform a dual-core Android with nothing more than a few generation past snapdragon, but why not throw in a dual-core anyway? My Focus is buttery smooth 99% of the time, but a dual-core and some extra RAM will speed up app loading immensely.
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
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hey buddy, please correct your words...we didn't say that WP7 running on single core is slow,please get us right...the reason why we want dual-core is more future proof...
future proof,read it again...microsoft has disappointed me twice since I just love WP7 like you,1st is the HTC HD2 and it can't run a real or proper WP7 due to microsoft don't want to support it.Then,i went for Mozart just for wp7,and now Microsoft says that only one major update per year, therefore, I don't think mozart is up for the next update no new feature,secondary camera, gyroscope for better augmented reality, kinect integration&etc....
So, get us right,before you write man...everyone knows that WP7 is fast on single core,but no future proof...not everyone is rich a$$ and able to buy new mobile phone every year. We want something can last for at least 2 years.
Specs > Design. If Nokia ships phones with Titan/Focus S specs they will not be able to attract the amount of conversions they need.
What Microsoft needs is conversions, not turnover.
Conversion: Android/iOS/WebOS/BB users switching to WP7.
Turn-Over: Us upgrading because we want more up-to-date handsets.
Android got where it is because it was able to convert a ton of Windows Mobile/BB/WebOS and even some iOS people to Android, not through turn-over.
Cute phones don't make those people come to WP7, when the internals are a year or more behind the competition. It's not just about power. Newer SoCs allow for LTE and faster HSPA+ data connections (this is why T-Mobile is using a Qualcomm instead of Exynos in their Galaxy S II). It allows for high-def Video Chatting. NFC. WiFi Direct. Bluetooth 3.0, etc.
Keep in mind, a lot of those features were on phones a year ago.
Microsoft's hardware specs have really held OEMs back. Part of the reason why Advertising for WP7 is so bad is cause the carriers and OEMs are really struggling to find a story to tell. The handsets, even if the design is nice, simply won't have that with the way Microsoft keeps the OEMs on that leash...
And with users come more and better dev support.
I've spend the better part of 3-4 days going through the app market and there's hardly any non-game apps worth installing (outside of some obvious ones, of course). Hardly any of them have been updated to Mango, and there are apps that I paid for which haven't been updated in ~6 months...
Yes, WP7 has to catch up. Software isn't the only way they need to catch up. They need to catch up with device specs as well.
The 4G phones coming to AT&T are 14.4 Mbps HSPA+ devices. The Galaxy S II on AT&T is a 21 Mbps device. T-Mobile's Galaxy S II is a 42 Mbps device, I doubt the Radar 4G will be above 14.4 unless they use an SoC we don't anticipate. The Price of the phones didn't have anything to do with the slow uptake of WP7 on release. The state of the OS had everything to do with that. It's one thing to be told something. It's another thing for people to see what it really performed like when they went in the store (and by performed, I'm not talking about raw speed).
Even now that Mango is out. So little apps are taking advantage of its new features that they need to really push for developers to get on the ball to updating their apps and supporting them. To a consumer trying devices out in a carrier store (only choice for a lot of them, since most of their friends don't have WP7 devices), a lot of Mango's changes seem purely cosmetic because of that. Microsoft haven't even updated most of their own apps on the marketplace for Mango...
N8ter said:
Specs > Design. If Nokia ships phones with Titan/Focus S specs they will not be able to attract the amount of conversions they need.
What Microsoft needs is conversions, not turnover.
Conversion: Android/iOS/WebOS/BB users switching to WP7.
Turn-Over: Us upgrading because we want more up-to-date handsets.
Android got where it is because it was able to convert a ton of Windows Mobile/BB/WebOS and even some iOS people to Android, not through turn-over.
Cute phones don't make those people come to WP7, when the internals are a year or more behind the competition. It's not just about power. Newer SoCs allow for LTE and faster HSPA+ data connections (this is why T-Mobile is using a Qualcomm instead of Exynos in their Galaxy S II). It allows for high-def Video Chatting. NFC. WiFi Direct. Bluetooth 3.0, etc.
Keep in mind, a lot of those features were on phones a year ago.
Microsoft's hardware specs have really held OEMs back. Part of the reason why Advertising for WP7 is so bad is cause the carriers and OEMs are really struggling to find a story to tell. The handsets, even if the design is nice, simply won't have that with the way Microsoft keeps the OEMs on that leash...
And with users come more and better dev support.
I've spend the better part of 3-4 days going through the app market and there's hardly any non-game apps worth installing (outside of some obvious ones, of course). Hardly any of them have been updated to Mango, and there are apps that I paid for which haven't been updated in ~6 months...
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Click to collapse
Very true. My sentiments exactly.
Part of it is good: They've added a lot of integrated functionality that reduces the need to install 3rd party apps. Shazam is useless on WP7 for me, for example (just one example).
Part of it is Bad: There are a lot of good apps on other platforms that seem like they don't care, and apps that were released early on, like Twitter/Birdsong that seem to have fallen out of support. Maybe the dev of Birdsong made enough cash and don't feel the need to update the app anymore?
Board Express Pro hasn't updated their app in forever as well, and that's a $3 app.
IMO, if you don't plan on supporting your app in the marketplace, it shouldn't cost anything. I have tended to ignore paid apps (don't even consider them, and don't even look at them) now unless they're a reputable app from a reputable developer. I'll buy BeejiveIM if it comes to WP7, I'll buy TapaTalk if it comes to WP7. If I had to do it again, I wouldn't buy Birdsong or Board Express Pro.
My days paying for apps are numbered. It's the developers' fault, too.
I think a lot of Microsoft's initial goal was Conversion of non-smartphone users. I don't have anything to prove it, but I wouldn't be surprised if a large amount of Android's marketshare comes from mid/low range devices.
N8tr,
Weren't you the one upset in an older thread that "all the apps are mango" and you couldn't use them because mango wasn't officially released yet... And now your upset that not enough apps are mango...
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
mlococo said:
The problem is Microsoft thinks that WP7 sales were slack because the handsets were too expensive. The reality is the handsets were a year (or more) out of date before they hit the shelves. They were pushing 3G phones with a series 1 CPU and no FFC in stores next to high end 4G phones with all the accessories. Now all we have are these puny low res screens on underpowered phones! Shameful!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh yes and the incredible spec'd devices that were on windows mobile were blockbusters in the market
Microsoft again will lose money if this is all about a specs war, and specs weren't the reason why android was (and is) successful. It's a part, but not the complete package.
Android is diverse enough to reach several different price points to be pawned and given away for pennies. In America, that's important. The only one that feels the need to compare the specs is a bunch of idiots like you and me to see who has the bigger e credit
And I bet anyone on xda devs has done that once
But guess what? We're a growing population, but we are still a blip in comparison to the mass consumer. Go on, ask anyone if spec's matter. To many the answer is possibly, but when a person is selling a phone, they don't say
Hi this phone has a 1.5 gig dual core qhd screen.
They dumb it down to make it sound nice. If you speak techie 24x7 selling a phone, not many sales occur. Again, its about the casual customer.
That said, looking at the price points for android devices that are priced and have similar hardware to windows phone, windows phone does provide a far greater out of box experience. That matters, and it is a large reason why many ditched windows mobile and palm in favor for the iphone flavor in 2007.
Windows Phone has to be popular, and that is a key deterrent in both apple and android's success. This year is the year of getting Windows on equal footing with Android and apple in competitive pricing. Next year is popularity, and ironically, a lot of users will be looking to renew their contracts in America...that matters too
In other words
wait or use a different phone if you're after specs...It's what I used to tell my customers all the time
munkeyphyst said:
N8tr,
Weren't you the one upset in an older thread that "all the apps are mango" and you couldn't use them because mango wasn't officially released yet... And now your upset that not enough apps are mango...
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Click to collapse
I don't know about N8ter, but I complained before the official release, when Microsoft was pushing Mango updates into the marketplace, and their policy was that any app updated to Mango caused the NoDo version to be locked (no more updates allowed). We didn't know how long it would be until the official release, and we didn't know how many NoDo apps would be dead-ended in the interim.
But now Mango is officially out, and Microsoft has admitted that their policy was a bad idea and reversed it. So now everyone wins. People with Mango can get Mango apps, and people with NoDo can continue to receive updates (at least until their numbers are so few that it no longer makes sense).
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
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Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more, I think 16GB is plenty for almost all needs
MartyLK said:
I agree. Guess what's going to happen when iPhone 5 hits? Long lines and a sellout.
Guess what's going to happen when the second generation of WP7 phones hit? Short lines and overstock.
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Click to collapse
because of the fact that all the iNaives out there don't know better. people need to stop holding Microsoft to a higher standard than google and apple. the iOS5 betas so far have been unstable on the iPhone4 when compared to mango, also apple may not even release the iPhone 5 but more of a rehash of the iPhone 4,I've seen ur trolling on pocketnow over the mango update and u are just plain wrong, ur just mad because mango doesn't include ur precious Google- integration.
N8ter said:
The 4G phones coming to AT&T are 14.4 Mbps HSPA+ devices. The Galaxy S II on AT&T is a 21 Mbps device. T-Mobile's Galaxy S II is a 42 Mbps device, I doubt the Radar 4G will be above 14.4 unless they use an SoC we don't anticipate. The Price of the phones didn't have anything to do with the slow uptake of WP7 on release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and this matters how? at&t,tmobile and vz all have data caps, what good is 42mbps when u can't even use them without being slowed or overcharged?
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who are you to decide what screen size is good for me?
"IS NOT NECESSARY" - who gave you the right to decide what is necessary? Don't be a smartass
When it comes to android, you know that you have an outstanding range of hardware. From the low-end Optimus T/S to the titans of the OS such as the Galaxy S2, and everything imaginable in between. These days, you can even find generic china phones running an, often dated, android. Every carrier has it, they come in all price ranges, and they're available on demand. The question I pose to you, "Is android's key selling point the hardware?"
I understand that numerous XDA members and even some outsiders enjoy the limitless customization options made readily available in android and that's awesome. However, the general consumer is happy to end customization at setting their own ringtone. It's not a breaking factor for the majority that you can swap out kernels. Overall, android is a decent enough platform, but for the masses, I see little that it offers, hardware aside, that it's competitors don't.
Here recently, a thread was posted regarding the ASUS Transformer 2, a pentacore processor in a tablet. Now, most people have yet to exhaust the resources on their dual core phones. A penta-core device seems to be pushing the limits. Considering that it is running a mobile OS, by the time those cores could be utilized, wouldn't the tablet be long outdated? However, I know it will sell well because the word "Penta-core" sounds too awesome for the masses to pass up.
Another occurrence I've seen, having worked in retail shops for some time. A lot of customers, when asked about what OS their phone is running, will reply, "HTC" or, "Samsung." A lot of them have no idea what our little green friend is. Another point towards my personal opinion that the hardware is a huge selling factor.
Overall, android is a very complete platform. It is not my daily driver, but I do enjoy it whenever I have time to tinker. I am inquiring about this matter to get your opinions, what sells? Hardware or software?
I think for me its a little bit of both. I like the fact that the hardware is there in my 3d when I need to push the system really hard. Its not often I do, but its good that when I do, it executes the tasks with ease.
On the same hand there are huge software benefits for me. I love the UI and that I can set swype gestures to open particular apps or settings. It makes multi tasking tthat much easier and fluid for me.
Also, at least from what I have seen with iOS5 (my girl has the 4s) is that android seems to be ahead in certain areas of functionality. For example it is not an innovative thing (to me anyways, being an android user) to be able to back up your device without the use of a computer... I have been doing wireless backups and internal backups since I bought my first android phone.
I think one thing you mentioned before... I think it was you, anyways... was pretty much right on when you said that android is capable of meeting so many different needs in the sense that you have a wide range in variety of devices to choose from and at different costs. There are high end phones available such that perform to today's standards in the mobile world, and there are lower end ones available that are more cost effective.
I feel if you yourself are innovative and creative, you are way more capable of taking an android phone and building the UI to what you want/need. I don't sacrifice functionality for speed, ever. In the end it is still just a phone, but I prefer this platform because it caters to that need I have to customize my phone the way I want it to be, not what somebody else feels it should be.
---------- Post added at 02:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 AM ----------
And to address your comment about the bajjillion core tab....
Seems the hardware is way ahead of the software in this case... therefore, I am not impressed by it.
I have a Motorola xoom and it has plenty of power to do what I need it to do. I will not be taking it back to simply have two more cores under the hood. And somebody else mentioned the new kal el device only has 1gb of ram? In my opinion that is really disappointing for a device with that kind of processing power.
i buy phones based on hardware specs
the OS is optional
I prefer to load my OS of choice
just like my PCs / Laptops
z33dev33l said:
When it comes to android, you know that you have an outstanding range of hardware. From the low-end Optimus T/S to the titans of the OS such as the Galaxy S2, and everything imaginable in between. These days, you can even find generic china phones running an, often dated, android. Every carrier has it, they come in all price ranges, and they're available on demand. The question I pose to you, "Is android's key selling point the hardware?"
I understand that numerous XDA members and even some outsiders enjoy the limitless customization options made readily available in android and that's awesome. However, the general consumer is happy to end customization at setting their own ringtone. It's not a breaking factor for the majority that you can swap out kernels. Overall, android is a decent enough platform, but for the masses, I see little that it offers, hardware aside, that it's competitors don't.
Here recently, a thread was posted regarding the ASUS Transformer 2, a pentacore processor in a tablet. Now, most people have yet to exhaust the resources on their dual core phones. A penta-core device seems to be pushing the limits. Considering that it is running a mobile OS, by the time those cores could be utilized, wouldn't the tablet be long outdated? However, I know it will sell well because the word "Penta-core" sounds too awesome for the masses to pass up.
Another occurrence I've seen, having worked in retail shops for some time. A lot of customers, when asked about what OS their phone is running, will reply, "HTC" or, "Samsung." A lot of them have no idea what our little green friend is. Another point towards my personal opinion that the hardware is a huge selling factor.
Overall, android is a very complete platform. It is not my daily driver, but I do enjoy it whenever I have time to tinker. I am inquiring about this matter to get your opinions, what sells? Hardware or software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First time I have to agree with you pal.BUT:
i)Those guys/gals whose customisation needs end with setting the ringtone are the ones who won't care or even won't realize if the OS is different between an iPhone and an Android device.
ii)Android offers most(if not all) of the things other OSes offer,plus the infinite customisation capabilities no other OS has.Now this is what matters for those of us who can do more than changing the ringtone.
Other than these two things,I generally agree.In the end,though,it's user preference that matters.And people's idiocy in fact.Hell,many people buy their phones depending on how many megapixels their camera can do!
AllGamer said:
I prefer to load my OS of choice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd prefer that too, but mobile hardware is pretty much completely closed, so this is not really possible in practice, except maybe on very very few models.
To answer the title question: I don't know about others, but for me it's definitely the OS. Android is the closest to Linux as I'll probably get on a phone, people are free to cook up their own ROMs (not completely free in many cases, there's closed components in every ROM, but oh well), vast customization capabilities, for getting software you're not limited to one store with draconian rules and sometimes arbitrary decisions.
Certainly a combination of software + hardware with a little bit of company preference.
But considering the range of manufacturers for android based phones, I find it hard to lag behind hardware wise.
1) I look for a device that I think will last me the three years of my contract or at least the majority of it
2) I look here on XDA and see what the dev community is like
3) I buy the phone
I would guess that for 80%+ of phone buyers the main factor is price. Sure they know about the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy devices, but for most those phohnes are out of their price bracket. So they find the device which has the same sort of idea but in a cheap package, which has helped Android no end since there are low end Android devices, and Apple have little interest in that.
For myself as a more techie person, I use Android becuase of the freedom to do what i want with my hardware. At least that's why i got into Android. Now I will continue to buy Android devices, but the major reason is I've invested in the app market, I have tens of pounds worth of apps for Android. To jump to anotehr platform now would mean having to start over with that. That's the power of these stores and markets, once you are invested changing platform is a lot more of a jump that just deciding which you like the most at the time.
countstex said:
I would guess that for 80%+ of phone buyers the main factor is price. Sure they know about the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy devices, but for most those phohnes are out of their price bracket. So they find the device which has the same sort of idea but in a cheap package, which has helped Android no end since there are low end Android devices, and Apple have little interest in that.
For myself as a more techie person, I use Android becuase of the freedom to do what i want with my hardware. At least that's why i got into Android. Now I will continue to buy Android devices, but the major reason is I've invested in the app market, I have tens of pounds worth of apps for Android. To jump to anotehr platform now would mean having to start over with that. That's the power of these stores and markets, once you are invested changing platform is a lot more of a jump that just deciding which you like the most at the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen the price comment being made multiple times but aren't these devices pretty close to each other in terms of price after a 2 yr contract? In fact if you shop around, you can find some of these highend units for nearly nothing from online stores such as amazon
As for me, overall package is what sold me to galaxy s2. Form factor, hardware specs, overall implementation of the OS (gpu acceleration various places), etc. Version number really doesn't really bother me (2.3.3 vs 2.3.4/5/6/7) as long as there aren't any key features missing in the current revision that exists in the newer revisions.
Gusar321 said:
I'd prefer that too, but mobile hardware is pretty much completely closed, so this is not really possible in practice, except maybe on very very few models.
To answer the title question: I don't know about others, but for me it's definitely the OS. Android is the closest to Linux as I'll probably get on a phone, people are free to cook up their own ROMs (not completely free in many cases, there's closed components in every ROM, but oh well), vast customization capabilities, for getting software you're not limited to one store with draconian rules and sometimes arbitrary decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HD2 was a great example
then there are many other HTC devices that did the same
and a few Samsung devices as well
and there's the HP Touchpad
and...
For most people it's both.
They're attracted for the first time by the look and find the OS easy to use.
Despite people stating that the iphone is for people who just want to use a smartphone for the first time etc and Android is for techies and geeks to customise, if that were actually true then that would mean that there are a hell of a lot of geeks out there, which obviously isn't the case.
I would guess the majority of Android users' extent of customisation is changing the picture of their wallpaper, and that's the thing, with Android you can do that, it's easy to use, with the extra buttons it can seem more logical to new users compared with the single button on the iphone for instance.
It has the "apps and the wifis" that average users want, it looks good and you can make it look pretty much how you like.
Being able to just plug it into another computer and transfer files is a huge boon too, something a colleague was very disappointed with the iphone4 because of it's lack of ability.
There is 500+ android devices on the market globally, its the brand name and hardware specs that sell. Not the os.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I'd rather say that that none of those sell the other: it's actually the price selling both, plus the "status symbol" factor thatbhas to do with Apple things. Androids are generally cheaper then both the iPhone and WP7 phones. This, plus the fact that most people don't seem to like WP7 tiled ui, basically because it doesn't "look like an iPhone" enough. That might sound harsh, like saying that most people are dumb, but it's not (only) that actually: people got used to icons since the day they got their first pc, no wonder they go for something that looks more familiar to them when they wanna buy a smartphone. Maybe Win8 will totally change the name of the game, but that's it for the moment (sadly enough I dare say).
I think we have to remember that 'most' people don't include the tiny fraction of the consumer market that are active on XDA. We make choices on a range of factors as we are better informed about both hardware and software. When we walk into a phone shop we want to assess the phone on build quality, size, Android version, display type, etc.
When the average punter walks into the same shop their buying choice usually boils down to no more than, 'Oh look, a shiny thing. I want that one'.
.
Thread moved to Android. Would advise you to read forum rules and post in correct section.
Failure to comply with forum rules will result in an infraction and/or ban depending on severity of rule break.
Do you review the content of my threads before moving them or do you see my name and play pin the tail on the donkey with the final location of the thread?
Well, I had to cut and run early from CES because I couldn't take the whole week off of work, it was my first CES and I will be attending yearly from now on. Overall, the titan 2 and the outstanding Lumia 900 completely stole the show, though Sony's new offering actually seemed to bring new life to android, perhaps if their custom UI is smooth I'll pick one up. I won a free Nexus S (didn't even know they still made those clunkers) and had my Lumia 800 case signed by some of the WP7 team. There is a bit more I'd have liked to see and some of the booths were almost comical, but overall it was an amazing experience for a phone lover.
Did you get to see Intel's demo unit running Android on Medfield x86? That's the only thing in CES so far that's grabbed my attention.
The Asus Memo. Tegra 3, IPS Screen, expandable storage all for $250 now that is a price that will get people buying it
I must say, as an outsider (I'm not at CES) I am rather disappointed. I expected a little more, for instance on Google TV. but overall, some awesome stuff was announced!
Althestrasz said:
I must say, as an outsider (I'm not at CES) I am rather disappointed. I expected a little more, for instance on Google TV. but overall, some awesome stuff was announced!
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Click to collapse
Me too. I was expecting a bit more But anyway, CES phones portfolio is great. Waiting for MWC now
Same here. From what I've been seeing through different websites and what-not I'm fairly disappointed in the new technology. A lot of it has been rehashed gadgets not-so-innovative designs. There have been a few gems, though, like the seagate 4g lte WiFi drive. Otherwise I haven't been able to get truly excited for things.
DirkGently said:
Did you get to see Intel's demo unit running Android on Medfield x86? That's the only thing in CES so far that's grabbed my attention.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't sadly, just watched it online. It was rather nice thoughandroid's presence as a whole was underwhelming this time around.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1443777
"In the car industry, Formula 1 provides a commercial testbed for cutting-edge technologies. The Ubuntu Edge project aims to do the same for the mobile phone industry -- to provide a low-volume, high-technology platform, crowdfunded by enthusiasts and mobile computing professionals. A pioneering project that accelerates the adoption of new technologies and drives them down into the mainstream." - http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge
What do you guys think about the device? I for one can't wait for it! Discuss below.
"Give a man a fish you feed him for a day, teach him to fish, you feed him for a lifetime." In other words help others find an answer don't just give it to them.
Does anyone know if the CPU architecture will be ARM or x86?
This phone seems really interesting and if it has Merrifield inside (Bay Trail for smartphones) I might actually get one. Hopefully I can find this out before the 21st of August.
I was initially thinking of getting it when my contract ran out next year but I'm getting the idea that if one wants one you need to buy through the campaign.
cypher49 said:
Does anyone know if the CPU architecture will be ARM or x86?
This phone seems really interesting and if it has Merrifield inside (Bay Trail for smartphones) I might actually get one. Hopefully I can find this out before the 21st of August.
I was initially thinking of getting it when my contract ran out next year but I'm getting the idea that if one wants one you need to buy through the campaign.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They haven't specified at all, only saying it will be the very best available when they start manufacturing.
"armv7 A15 support 40bit adressing"
That is what one of the officials said on indiegogo. The guys name is Victor Palau.
Help spred the word!
https://www.thunderclap.it/en/projects/3486
Someone buy me one... I want one... can't afford... I will just pray they start making it for US carriers and I can get one with my new contract next year ha. Seems like this phone will be the "next best thing" if the project gets enough support. I like the sapphire screen and sleek design they've come up with. Would buy 10/10.
t3hcurs3 said:
Someone buy me one... I want one... can't afford... I will just pray they start making it for US carriers and I can get one with my new contract next year ha. Seems like this phone will be the "next best thing" if the project gets enough support. I like the sapphire screen and sleek design they've come up with. Would buy 10/10.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This phone will never ever ever ever come to carriers.
A) the phone will never exist.
B) even if it will, they will start a new campaign and change the price to a more realistic $850. Can carriers subsidize this to $200? They won't like it much...
C) the phone is the phone equivalent of a Bugatti Veyron. You won't see these just lying around in a store. They are limited production and must be built on a per order basis. Carriers on the other hand, stockpile phones, something canonical can't allow with the little support they have.
D) The margins are extremely small. Ubuntu style. Seriously, look at the specs, then the price. You can't expect a company that has such small margins to really take off and compete with multi billion dollar companies.
This phone is only for hardcore Ubuntu enthusiasts who absolutely must have the best, and can afford it. Since you're American, if you buy this phone, you'll end up paying for it twice during the course of 2 years. More if you keep it longer.
Don't worry. Since Ubuntu is open source, it's only a matter of time before Ubuntu Touch is finalized and flagships start shipping with dual boot capability.
I backed it, but am sadly anticipating the crowd fund to fail.
If you look at the descriptions, pretty much every hardware aspect is still up in the air, even the cpu architecture. And given how poorly they handled the developer preview release, burst their hype bubble, and only barely have a dd-ready build after all this time, I don't think it would release on time even if it did fund successfully.
Motorola was way ahead of its time starting with the Atrix and its webtop mode, is a shame that they axed it and Google never built in that support after buying Motorola. The whole screen becomes a touchpad when in webtop mode on a tv was really cool. (Granted, the web dock laptop WAS like $500 for a crappy screen and keyboard dock, but still, it worked!)
I REALLY want to see the whole desktop convergence thing happen, but the MHL vs OTG stuff still needs to be worked out and standardized, so one port can simultaneously output hdmi, be a usb host, and still charge the device, before it will be ubiquitous. One dock to rule them all! (Either that or standardize the two-port hdmi & usb side by side with specified orientation and spacing)
In the meantime, newegg has a deal today on a Samsung 11 pin mhl dock sometime today. (Good for s3/4 and notes)
Today we broke past $10M in support, and soon the world record for crowd funding will be broken.
The Ubuntu Edge has an unlocked bootrom and we are encouraged to hack/tinker with it.
Yesterday Mark Shuttleworth posted this message:
A message from Mark Shuttleworth
Hi everyone
Thanks in large part to all of you, the Ubuntu Edge campaign response has been incredible. In just over three weeks more than 20,000 people have backed the project, from individuals giving a single dollar right up to Bloomberg’s fantastic $80,000 contribution. Along the way we’ve broken crowdfunding records, including the fastest project to hit $2 million (7hrs 59mins), and the highest ever 24-hour total ($3.45 million). We’re now on the verge of an even bigger milestone as we approach the all-time crowdfunding record of $10.27 million.
Speaking both personally and for the team, the more time we spend on this project, the more excited we get about the possibilities of this new class of device. And as the news has spread we’ve seen industry thought leaders coming round to the idea that convergence can be a real force, and that this project represents a new way to underwrite innovation.
That led to some significant engagements with suppliers that enabled us to drop the price below $700, without compromising the specification. And now that we’ve seen next-generation phones from other major names, we think the price-performance of the Edge is off the charts -- it offers real value. We’re even more convinced that it will take a new approach to unlock the next wave of mobile innovation.
Whatever happens in the next nine days, the Ubuntu Edge is already making a difference. This campaign lets enthusiast consumers signal their interest to a mobile industry that caters overwhelmingly to the mainstream. It’s making it clear that we’re no longer satisfied with minor updates; we’re looking for true innovation and we’re ready to pay for it. And that message is getting through.
So in a sense, we can be proud of what’s been achieved already -- but we really want to hit that $32 million! We’re going to need a huge push, a surge in awareness that builds momentum to carry us over the line. No one here is giving up while the goal remains achievable, and you’ve all gone out of your way to add your voice to the chorus. So I’m writing to ask you to take to the Twitterverse and other social networks to encourage like-minded types to join you, and me, and companies large and small, in backing the Ubuntu Edge.
As they say, the future is already here, it’s just not widely distributed. We’re working to put it in the hands of 40,000 people, to start a revolution. And you’re there at the start.
Mark Shuttleworth
Founder, Ubuntu and Canonical
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think there is still a ton of people who do not know about the device, and if you want one, help spread the word and support the campaign!
Aonoa said:
Today we broke past $10M in support, and soon the world record for crowd funding will be broken.
The Ubuntu Edge has an unlocked bootrom and we are encouraged to hack/tinker with it.
Yesterday Mark Shuttleworth posted this message:
I think there is still a ton of people who do not know about the device, and if you want one, help spread the word and support the campaign!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't wait to get my Edge, I'm so fed up of my Lumia 920 and it's constant niggles that gripe me on a regular basis, I'm really looking forward to trying Android... To be honest I can't believe the storage capacity on this thing!!! There's no way Apple will ever do a 128gb model... imagine the price after Apple tax gets included
Since the op seems to be on vacation there is no need for this thread to stay open. Please continue your discussion here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2379508&page=4
Thread closed