It is truly amazing what we put up with as consumers of electronic devices. The fact that a certain technology is readily available and has been for years does not necessarily mean that we are allowed to put our hands on it. Instead there is a huge secluded group of executives that meet off the books periodically to decide how long they will string out the public with this specific device or set of hardware spec, and which years in the future they will finally decide to release what they already have in hand and are using themselves as "prototypes".
I have an uncle who works for an integrator who makes all the internals that go inside these cell phones, and laptops, and other electronic devices, and he has showed me again and again the kind of technology that is available, and could be in the hands of the public for pennies on the dollar, but from a sales/profit standpoint it would not make sense to release this stuff. We are talking about phones that exist now, but we will not see until 5 years from now, that can already be as powerful as your 3.0ghz core2duo desktop computer. The same goes with laptops. Just as an example, in 2001, I had a Dell Latitude c840 Laptop, with 2GB RAM and a 2.4ghz processor. Come on, that was 7 years ago! Yet that is still the norm for average/decent computer these days that sells for $1,000.
The intentional slowing down of technology release to the public, and the huge gap between what is easily possible and what is readily available is just getting bigger and bigger. Think about it...allowing a cell phone board to handle 512mb instead of 256mb...come on, that is an overnight programming/hardware fix job...not 2-3 years. We have been trained by these corporations to expect it to take a year or two to come up with new hardware, when in fact it takes weeks, and max 2-3 months to invent this stuff. Companies like Intel and AMD have been providing other companies like SiliconImages with 8-16 core computers for the past 8 years...why are we, the general public, so low on the totem pole to these executives? We have it well within our power to shut down the system in less than a week by refusing to buy this cheap, dumbed down hardware.
Frankly I am sick of it, yet there is nothing I can do as a consumer to change it. We are scum and nothing in the eyes of the giant electronics corps, and right now we are eating up their tables scraps like it is the best invention we have ever seen. Come on - The TouchPro 2 from HTC could have been in my hand 5 years ago, yet we still right now are "waiting" for it, and will pay $500, $600, or $700 for one, a device that costs them $50-$100 to manufacture. They hold on to hardware as long as they possibly can to make as much money as they can. Yes, that is a good business strategy, but in the meantime we are left with crap hardware that just gets repackaged into a new plastic shell and given a different name, and we are supposed to drool over it...? Please. This just blows me away, the fact that we put up with this treatment is beyond me; and, it has gone on for so long that it is par for the course now, nobody can change it. We will continue to get low quality electronics when 10x more advanced devices are sitting on CEO's desks just gathering dust.
Well said. That is why I ain't investing on any phone unless it has about 1GHz of processor power.
Of course it's about cost issues. There are multiteraflops computers in this world, but why can't we get our hands on them? Because they cost too much, duh.
Think about it. Do you want to pay $500,000 for a phone? Just because it contains chips that will economically viable in about five years?
Soaa- said:
Of course it's about cost issues. There are multiteraflops computers in this world, but why can't we get our hands on them? Because they cost too much, duh.
Think about it. Do you want to pay $500,000 for a phone? Just because it contains chips that will economically viable in about five years?
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Click to collapse
But that is exactly my point, it really does not cost that much. You have been conditioned to think that it costs hundreds of tousands of dollars for this stuff.
This was exactly my point. Consumers have been trained to believe that this stuff really costs SO much money when in fact it does not. So we just put it out of our mind as unaffordable, and settle for a much more mediocre device.
For example, a 60" Plasma Flast Screen TV made by Pioneer (the best HDTV maker on the market) costs then about $200-$300 to make...they charge over $1,500 to $2,000 now. Do you also remember when that same 60" Plasma costs over $10,000 to make back in 2000 or 2001? Well they were not using any different or better parts back then, in fact probably worse parts than the new ones, however the price came from the "idea" of what HDTV was, and not from the actual cost/prices.
Huge advancements in technology are being withheld from us under the guise that it costs a lot of money, when in fact it costs Intel no more money to manufacture and 80core chip than it does for then to manufacture a single core chip. Perhaps a few dollars more, but we're talking about 5% or 10% of the price they charge as their costs here. Why do you think electronic companies never go out of business? I mean the names like LG, Samsung, Pioneer, Panasonioc, Sony, Motorola, etc....these have been around forever, and always will be because they are pulling the wool over our eyes.
I get sick evertime I read a press release from one of the big electronic giants about a "new" technology being introduced into the market, and although the price is sky high, some peiople will buy it. All I can sit there and think about it "Wow, how many decades did they wait to show this to us, only to tell us it was new and charge us out the butt for something they have had in their possesion for years?"
GRR! I will stop venting now.
"1GHz of processor power."
Ghz is pointless it's easy to make a 1Ghz cpu but to get to perform
better then what you got is the task
clock is only the pace how much is don at each tick is what matters
like a 500Mhz arm based cpu don't performe as a 500Mhz x86 based cpu
and a p4 2.4Ghz dont performe as a core duo 2.4Ghz
Could intel make a 16 core chip right now? Yes! they could! it would use over 400 watts, have to be clocked pretty low, and cost 2,000 because of very low yields (what % have all cores functional) and low demand. The desktop PC CPU market is not holding out on us. Why are the chips still clocked around 3ghz or lower? because the new chips have a focus on efficiency. They make the chips do more work at lower mhz to reduce power usage and allow them to keep advancing. An E6600 for example is supposed to be equivilent to a P4 at 6.6ghz, though they have gotten a bit bad with those ratings and they don't really offer a good comparison any more. I will put it this way though, if you benchmark a 2.4ghz P4 against a 2.4ghz core 2 based chip, the P4 chip will get curb stomped.
LCD panels for HDTVs etc.. weren't being held back, they were just being gouged to high heaven. Hence all of the recent price fixing suits coming up.
Phones, we really are being held back. I really don't know why. Probably atleast partly to do with batteries not being good enough, but even with our current batteries we should have much better phones. I live in the US, we get shafted on phones above and beyond the normal shafting. A lot of the good phones dont support our carriers and the ones that do often dont support our 3G bands.
its the same situation with cars! churning out the same repackaged stuff and charging the earth for it..
Related
Slightly better specs, and only an extra $400! I'm happy with my gtab.
VERIZON is also disabling wifi unless you buy a minimum of one month of subscription service. That is a MAJOR turn off in my eyes and makes me sooooooo glad I got my gTab!!!!!
Sent from my GTablet-TnT-Lite using Tapatalk
I am certainly glad i picked up a g tab. $800 is a little much, and one month data on top of that is just greedy imo.
Sent from my VEGAn-TAB-v1.0.0B5.1 using Tapatalk
The gtab certainly works great for me. I'm looking forward to the ROM's that are sure to follow the Xoom's release though.
I feel like the market value of my g-tab just increased
Xoom scored 1823 in quadrant
Lulz.
*Yes, I know it has higher screen res
first i would like to correct the people saying that $800 is a little much. you're incorrect. its way too much. a price point around $500 would make this device a hit.
the specs are a bit better. but enough to make someone want to spend an extra 400 bucks? i believe it will sell well to apple haters that want a tablet and aren't aware there are android tablets outside the galaxy tab and xoom.
viewsonic could make a killing if they would announce the g tablet was going to get honeycomb on a specific date. that would be enough to bring a lot of customers.
http://www.techtree.com/India/News/...t_800_Launching_on_Feb_24/551-114391-893.html
Umm ....Yeah. Now I'm glad I bought 3 G Tablets. I was thinkin, 499.00- 599.00...Maybe I can justify that. But 8 bills? gonna save my money and put it towards the BIONIC instead.
Tickled pink w/ my GTab's
$800 gets you a better hires screen, 32gb storage, 1gb ram, and 3g/gps. If we look at the various versions of the ipad, and how much the other configurations add on to it, I would imagine it would be similar for gtablet/xoom if it had other configurations.
If there was a xoom hardware version that is truly equivalent to the gtablet, it would come down to this:
$800 for current xoom
-100 for 16gb less storage
-130 for no 3g/gps
-50 for 512mb less ram (i'm guessing on this one)
=$520
This number sounds more reasonable, I just wish they would come out with more options similar to what we get for the iPad.
I'm looking forward to the toshiba tablet assuming the price is right, one thing I like most about it is FULL SD card (no more micro sd card crap) meaning cheaper and larger storage options. It also has a user replaceable battery.
http://www.thetoshibatablet.com/
no way
well i was waiting for the xoom, i was gonna get it based on the first rumor of feb 17th release date and $699. but now no way especially since wifi comes disabled, thats so lowbrow and nickle and dime the consumer to death. looks like ill just go get a gtab now. seems like everyones happy with theirs.
I refuse to buy any tablet or device crippled by someone unless I take their appendages in my orifices. Don't support these bastages if you ever want to see this crappy business practice stop(not that it will, but I'd die before I support it).
When nobody buys the thing expect this price to drop...fast. Manufacturers need to realize most people aren't using their tablets walking down the street, all we want is wifi!
Drop a wifi only for 500 and it will sell. I'm still a firm believer that the average consumer won't bite at $800, and would rather buy a new laptop for just a little more. Not to mention the ipad can be cheaper and has more name recognition.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Agreed. If someone has $800 to drop on this and extra $20 may not appear to be such a big deal IF it didn't smack of extortion. Look at the HP Slate that rolled out at a similiar price point geared toward the business community. Not sure how that did but one doesn't hear much about it these days. Now if the XOOM was a dual-boot (Honeycomb/Win7) I for one might, MIGHT, be tempted. And as long as the Win7 flavor was better than Win7 Starter.
Just my 2 cents
Very sad
I think it's overpriced. The specs are good, but I don't see how they arrived at that absurd price. And it's very, very sad Google chose Motorola to feature Honeycomb! I'll just sit and wait the gtab devs release their version of Honey in the near future.
abstrusius said:
I think it's overpriced. The specs are good, but I don't see how they arrived at that absurd price. And it's very, very sad Google chose Motorola to feature Honeycomb! I'll just sit and wait the gtab devs release their version of Honey in the near future.
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I'm sure the 3G components (and Verizon) had alot to do with driving up the price. Plus if they are launching the first tablet that officially competes head to head with the iPad, I think there is alot of, for the lack of a better word, snobbishness out there whereby some folks in the market for an iPad wouldn't consider an alternative if it was significantly cheaper - I know, sounds counter-intuitive but I've heard it from enough people to believe it actually is a factor. If its alot cheaper, it must also be a physically cheaper product and therefore inferior to the mighty iPad.
I'll just wait until its released so somebody can figure out how to get honeycomb off it and let the ports flow.
So sixvolt you raise a question for me. I'm no stranger to development (being in the field) and I've played with the android SDKs before as well as compiling various linux kernels (never an android kernel though). Is it currently possible to produce a working rom from the honeycomb SDK? Or is there something that I am missing here? How was this achieved on the nook?
I heard LG may be right behind at a much lower cost.... Im betting on that tablet right now... Motorola I am writing off as if I were someone looking for an amazing tablet in that price range with tons of developers and applications - why wouldn't I just buy an iPAD (or actually just wait for the iPAD 2).
The differentiating factor to apple has been its openness and most importantly the price. Most consumers dont care about the geek factor ("openness") as long as they can start playing at a reasonable price... the Xoom just is NOT that... I say it will be as good with consumers as the Galaxy Tab was which in all tense and purposes was a flop (technically ever android tablet has been a flop if we were to compare its sales to its competitors)..
I think Android 3.0 definitely has a very very strong chance of overtaking the iPAD - especially since Google has confirmed that all 2.x applications should work on 3.0 BUT only if these devices come in at reasonable pricing. If not - even I would potentially jump ship to just have a mature platform.
I personally like fiddling but fiddling only goes so far once you realize that you cant get work done... Right now the GTablet is a great fiddler -but honestly with the corruption (ie force closes of the core, reboots when in sleep) , battery life and very poor viewing angles I just cant use it for prime time work. I truely am hopping for a great competitor to the iPAD... lets hope and see..
Misprint?
I think this may be a misprint. Should say plan activation required to receive data. The $20.00 a month 1 gig plan is the same that was offered with the Galaxy Tab. Don't forget the activation fee of $30.00 or was it $35.00.
$800.00 is allot for a gimped lap tap, but compare the price to the top ipad and it seems what the market will bear.
Personally, after using a tablet for awhile now, I'm coming to my senses. The premium for their portability is too steep considering the limitations that a tablet has compared to a laptop. I would not spend $800.00 for any tablet. I would consider this unit in the $500.00 to 600.00 dollar range, but that would be driven more by want than an actual use for it.
This does seem like a steep price but we also need to remember this is the first heavily marketed Android tablet and is also running Honeycomb. This will be no different than any other overpriced handheld device, they demand a high price tag initially with no competition, but we all know the slew of tablets that are about to be released this year. I give them 15-20 days at this price point before competition/lack of sales drive them down.
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
Well, screensize is a matter of personal preference. Millions of iphoners can attest to that.
I, personally, won't pass judgement on the Titan's screen until I see it in person.
Based on what you've posted, I'd recommend either waiting for Nokia devices or take a look at Samsung Focus S when it hits.
Although, I do agree that OEMS have been less than forthcoming with their cutting edge devices thus far. The Venue Pro could have been such an animal had it not had a myriad of issues early on.
Okbye.
yes because every single android device has monster specs and doesn't try to market to different audiences increasing share and permeability...
seriously this iteration is Microsoft and OEMs using different market points to create presence and alternatives
Dual core is next year, so either wait or not buy it...it's that simple
I think the screen sizes between 3.5 and 4.0 are awesome :-D just the way I want the screens to be;-) still hoped for some dual core, but wp is designed especially for one type of processor, so It's probably therefore it is still singlecore
sent with love from me to you
domineus said:
yes because every single android device has monster specs and doesn't try to market to different audiences increasing share and permeability...
seriously this iteration is Microsoft and OEMs using different market points to create presence and alternatives
Dual core is next year, so either wait or not buy it...it's that simple
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Click to collapse
The problem is Microsoft thinks that WP7 sales were slack because the handsets were too expensive. The reality is the handsets were a year (or more) out of date before they hit the shelves. They were pushing 3G phones with a series 1 CPU and no FFC in stores next to high end 4G phones with all the accessories. Now all we have are these puny low res screens on underpowered phones! Shameful!
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
andrewkeith5 said:
Cut for size
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I just wanted to come to this thread and say: Amen, brotha.
You couldn't have explained it better.
Xodium said:
I just wanted to come to this thread and say: Amen, brotha.
You couldn't have explained it better.
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Thanks! You can probably tell that little rant has been brewing up for quite some time reading some of the posts on here!
mlococo said:
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
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Click to collapse
I agree. Guess what's going to happen when iPhone 5 hits? Long lines and a sellout.
Guess what's going to happen when the second generation of WP7 phones hit? Short lines and overstock.
mlococo said:
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sort of agree, but only a little. For WP7 to be successful, they need to push out some hardware that blows people away. Not necessarily in specs, but in design. The new Focus S or whatever it will be called is pretty impressive, but they need to stop developing behind the curve and start innovating on some hardware. Maybe that's MS's plan with Nokia and the newly signed HTC and Samsung contracts. I know that WP7 will outperform a dual-core Android with nothing more than a few generation past snapdragon, but why not throw in a dual-core anyway? My Focus is buttery smooth 99% of the time, but a dual-core and some extra RAM will speed up app loading immensely.
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
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hey buddy, please correct your words...we didn't say that WP7 running on single core is slow,please get us right...the reason why we want dual-core is more future proof...
future proof,read it again...microsoft has disappointed me twice since I just love WP7 like you,1st is the HTC HD2 and it can't run a real or proper WP7 due to microsoft don't want to support it.Then,i went for Mozart just for wp7,and now Microsoft says that only one major update per year, therefore, I don't think mozart is up for the next update no new feature,secondary camera, gyroscope for better augmented reality, kinect integration&etc....
So, get us right,before you write man...everyone knows that WP7 is fast on single core,but no future proof...not everyone is rich a$$ and able to buy new mobile phone every year. We want something can last for at least 2 years.
Specs > Design. If Nokia ships phones with Titan/Focus S specs they will not be able to attract the amount of conversions they need.
What Microsoft needs is conversions, not turnover.
Conversion: Android/iOS/WebOS/BB users switching to WP7.
Turn-Over: Us upgrading because we want more up-to-date handsets.
Android got where it is because it was able to convert a ton of Windows Mobile/BB/WebOS and even some iOS people to Android, not through turn-over.
Cute phones don't make those people come to WP7, when the internals are a year or more behind the competition. It's not just about power. Newer SoCs allow for LTE and faster HSPA+ data connections (this is why T-Mobile is using a Qualcomm instead of Exynos in their Galaxy S II). It allows for high-def Video Chatting. NFC. WiFi Direct. Bluetooth 3.0, etc.
Keep in mind, a lot of those features were on phones a year ago.
Microsoft's hardware specs have really held OEMs back. Part of the reason why Advertising for WP7 is so bad is cause the carriers and OEMs are really struggling to find a story to tell. The handsets, even if the design is nice, simply won't have that with the way Microsoft keeps the OEMs on that leash...
And with users come more and better dev support.
I've spend the better part of 3-4 days going through the app market and there's hardly any non-game apps worth installing (outside of some obvious ones, of course). Hardly any of them have been updated to Mango, and there are apps that I paid for which haven't been updated in ~6 months...
Yes, WP7 has to catch up. Software isn't the only way they need to catch up. They need to catch up with device specs as well.
The 4G phones coming to AT&T are 14.4 Mbps HSPA+ devices. The Galaxy S II on AT&T is a 21 Mbps device. T-Mobile's Galaxy S II is a 42 Mbps device, I doubt the Radar 4G will be above 14.4 unless they use an SoC we don't anticipate. The Price of the phones didn't have anything to do with the slow uptake of WP7 on release. The state of the OS had everything to do with that. It's one thing to be told something. It's another thing for people to see what it really performed like when they went in the store (and by performed, I'm not talking about raw speed).
Even now that Mango is out. So little apps are taking advantage of its new features that they need to really push for developers to get on the ball to updating their apps and supporting them. To a consumer trying devices out in a carrier store (only choice for a lot of them, since most of their friends don't have WP7 devices), a lot of Mango's changes seem purely cosmetic because of that. Microsoft haven't even updated most of their own apps on the marketplace for Mango...
N8ter said:
Specs > Design. If Nokia ships phones with Titan/Focus S specs they will not be able to attract the amount of conversions they need.
What Microsoft needs is conversions, not turnover.
Conversion: Android/iOS/WebOS/BB users switching to WP7.
Turn-Over: Us upgrading because we want more up-to-date handsets.
Android got where it is because it was able to convert a ton of Windows Mobile/BB/WebOS and even some iOS people to Android, not through turn-over.
Cute phones don't make those people come to WP7, when the internals are a year or more behind the competition. It's not just about power. Newer SoCs allow for LTE and faster HSPA+ data connections (this is why T-Mobile is using a Qualcomm instead of Exynos in their Galaxy S II). It allows for high-def Video Chatting. NFC. WiFi Direct. Bluetooth 3.0, etc.
Keep in mind, a lot of those features were on phones a year ago.
Microsoft's hardware specs have really held OEMs back. Part of the reason why Advertising for WP7 is so bad is cause the carriers and OEMs are really struggling to find a story to tell. The handsets, even if the design is nice, simply won't have that with the way Microsoft keeps the OEMs on that leash...
And with users come more and better dev support.
I've spend the better part of 3-4 days going through the app market and there's hardly any non-game apps worth installing (outside of some obvious ones, of course). Hardly any of them have been updated to Mango, and there are apps that I paid for which haven't been updated in ~6 months...
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Click to collapse
Very true. My sentiments exactly.
Part of it is good: They've added a lot of integrated functionality that reduces the need to install 3rd party apps. Shazam is useless on WP7 for me, for example (just one example).
Part of it is Bad: There are a lot of good apps on other platforms that seem like they don't care, and apps that were released early on, like Twitter/Birdsong that seem to have fallen out of support. Maybe the dev of Birdsong made enough cash and don't feel the need to update the app anymore?
Board Express Pro hasn't updated their app in forever as well, and that's a $3 app.
IMO, if you don't plan on supporting your app in the marketplace, it shouldn't cost anything. I have tended to ignore paid apps (don't even consider them, and don't even look at them) now unless they're a reputable app from a reputable developer. I'll buy BeejiveIM if it comes to WP7, I'll buy TapaTalk if it comes to WP7. If I had to do it again, I wouldn't buy Birdsong or Board Express Pro.
My days paying for apps are numbered. It's the developers' fault, too.
I think a lot of Microsoft's initial goal was Conversion of non-smartphone users. I don't have anything to prove it, but I wouldn't be surprised if a large amount of Android's marketshare comes from mid/low range devices.
N8tr,
Weren't you the one upset in an older thread that "all the apps are mango" and you couldn't use them because mango wasn't officially released yet... And now your upset that not enough apps are mango...
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
mlococo said:
The problem is Microsoft thinks that WP7 sales were slack because the handsets were too expensive. The reality is the handsets were a year (or more) out of date before they hit the shelves. They were pushing 3G phones with a series 1 CPU and no FFC in stores next to high end 4G phones with all the accessories. Now all we have are these puny low res screens on underpowered phones! Shameful!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh yes and the incredible spec'd devices that were on windows mobile were blockbusters in the market
Microsoft again will lose money if this is all about a specs war, and specs weren't the reason why android was (and is) successful. It's a part, but not the complete package.
Android is diverse enough to reach several different price points to be pawned and given away for pennies. In America, that's important. The only one that feels the need to compare the specs is a bunch of idiots like you and me to see who has the bigger e credit
And I bet anyone on xda devs has done that once
But guess what? We're a growing population, but we are still a blip in comparison to the mass consumer. Go on, ask anyone if spec's matter. To many the answer is possibly, but when a person is selling a phone, they don't say
Hi this phone has a 1.5 gig dual core qhd screen.
They dumb it down to make it sound nice. If you speak techie 24x7 selling a phone, not many sales occur. Again, its about the casual customer.
That said, looking at the price points for android devices that are priced and have similar hardware to windows phone, windows phone does provide a far greater out of box experience. That matters, and it is a large reason why many ditched windows mobile and palm in favor for the iphone flavor in 2007.
Windows Phone has to be popular, and that is a key deterrent in both apple and android's success. This year is the year of getting Windows on equal footing with Android and apple in competitive pricing. Next year is popularity, and ironically, a lot of users will be looking to renew their contracts in America...that matters too
In other words
wait or use a different phone if you're after specs...It's what I used to tell my customers all the time
munkeyphyst said:
N8tr,
Weren't you the one upset in an older thread that "all the apps are mango" and you couldn't use them because mango wasn't officially released yet... And now your upset that not enough apps are mango...
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I don't know about N8ter, but I complained before the official release, when Microsoft was pushing Mango updates into the marketplace, and their policy was that any app updated to Mango caused the NoDo version to be locked (no more updates allowed). We didn't know how long it would be until the official release, and we didn't know how many NoDo apps would be dead-ended in the interim.
But now Mango is officially out, and Microsoft has admitted that their policy was a bad idea and reversed it. So now everyone wins. People with Mango can get Mango apps, and people with NoDo can continue to receive updates (at least until their numbers are so few that it no longer makes sense).
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
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I couldn't agree more, I think 16GB is plenty for almost all needs
MartyLK said:
I agree. Guess what's going to happen when iPhone 5 hits? Long lines and a sellout.
Guess what's going to happen when the second generation of WP7 phones hit? Short lines and overstock.
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because of the fact that all the iNaives out there don't know better. people need to stop holding Microsoft to a higher standard than google and apple. the iOS5 betas so far have been unstable on the iPhone4 when compared to mango, also apple may not even release the iPhone 5 but more of a rehash of the iPhone 4,I've seen ur trolling on pocketnow over the mango update and u are just plain wrong, ur just mad because mango doesn't include ur precious Google- integration.
N8ter said:
The 4G phones coming to AT&T are 14.4 Mbps HSPA+ devices. The Galaxy S II on AT&T is a 21 Mbps device. T-Mobile's Galaxy S II is a 42 Mbps device, I doubt the Radar 4G will be above 14.4 unless they use an SoC we don't anticipate. The Price of the phones didn't have anything to do with the slow uptake of WP7 on release.
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and this matters how? at&t,tmobile and vz all have data caps, what good is 42mbps when u can't even use them without being slowed or overcharged?
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
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Who are you to decide what screen size is good for me?
"IS NOT NECESSARY" - who gave you the right to decide what is necessary? Don't be a smartass
As of current development or better preferred term, Evolution, the current trend in the Android Phone genre is increasing the processor cores, size and resolution of the display etc. etc. But the real question is where they will stop.
First, there were the Single core phones like Samsung Galaxy S, iPhone 4
Now There are Dual Core like Samsung Galaxy S ||, LG 2X, HTC Sensation,
Now, it seems that even dual cores are not enough, that's why companies are launching Quad-Core phones like HTC's One X, LG 4X HD etc.
Now, the first question is,'' Do We Really Need Quad-Core Phones''
Nvidia started this buzz in the middle of the previous year with their Tegra 3, soon we heard Samsung joining this group with their announcement of their Exynos 5450.Having more cores means a faster phone, which everybody wants, is not a bad thing. Personally, i don't think that Quad-Core is the answer for mobiles, right now.
Having a latest hardware is of no use until the Software or Opreating System (OS) can utilize it properly, but following the latest trend, the hardware department seems to be developing at a much faster rate than the software's. We have seen this similar scenario in other aspects of technology too, for e.g. There was a time when PC games were really demanding and investing in a dual GPU sounds smart, but today you can easily get away with a two year old graphics card without having to compromise too much. There's a lot of buzz that ICS is gonna be agame changer, but you can see, that it is not very different from Honeycomb, just better optimized. ICS is better optimised, for sure, but whether it will be able to utilize more than two cores properly, is yet to be seen. Even though Honeycomb was “fully” hardware accelerated, Tegra 2 ( yeah, i'm talking to you, XOOM ) just couldn’t translate all that power it had in to the real world, which translated into sluggish performance.
While Tegra 3 fixes some of these issues, putting it in a phone just does not make sense. To start off with, it’s still using the 40nm fabrication, which doesn’t exactly sip power. You’ll need a really chunky battery for this, which could explain why all Tegra 3 phones have large screens, so the phones have to be made bigger to accommodate the larger battery, while keeping it slim.
But don't forget main part, Battery Life. More processing power automatically translates into more power hungry devices, which impacts battery life quite badly. Tegra 3 uses a 5th Companion core to save power, Even if the new quad-core SoCs have the ability to put their cores in idle mode, it’s still consuming a small amount of power all the time, even if you aren’t using them. Android users struggle with battery life, as it is to get a full day’s worth of heavy usage on single-core phones, so don’t get me started on quad-cores.
Another issue we shouldn’t ignore is apps. About 90 percent of the apps, you’ll ever use on a smartphone work absolutely fine on a 1GHz single-core CPU. It’s just a handful of games (mostly from Nvidia) or specialized apps that actually take advantage of two cores. Realistically, you will very seldom be using these apps when you’re travelling, since these drain the battery like crazy, so your only option is to not use it, which defeats the whole purpose of having a multi-core phone.
P.S. It is my first post, suggestions are always welcome.....
They will stop - when the consumer stops foaming at the mouth to buy the newest, most cores/biggest screen piece of technology to brag to their iPhone owning friends about.
I agree with everything you're saying, however it's all about marketing.
Why would anyone buy a new phone if it comes out with the same specs as the phone they currently own? They won't. They'll hang on to their current phone until they break it, brick it, or lose it.
But if you can show them a new phone with better hardware and specs, they're going to feel like theirs is outdated or inferior.
And since the buying frenzy is driven by the unending need to have something better than everyone else, they will continue to facilitate the satisfaction of that need so that they, in turn, can line their pockets with our hard earned money.
Personally, the only reason I'm going to buy the next phone (Galaxy S3 perhaps?) is so that I can hand my SGS2 down to my wife, who currently has my original MT4G (which btw is still an awesome phone that runs everything like a champ). The only justifiable reason she would need the SGS2 IMO is because the hardware buttons on the MT4G will eventually wear out.
Once she has my SGS2, and I have my new phone, I doubt I will be interested in buying another phone for quite some time unless they introduce some completely new technology that I feel is worth the money (Like project glass, which really isn't a phone per se)
Just my two cents.
I agree completely. It's not about whats realistic or necessary. It's about making money. As long as they're making money, they keep churning out what's making them money. And people will continue to buy the bigger and the better specs because they're looked at with envy by those with last year's model.
I wonder the same when i see new cellphones every day on the news... do they sell all this stuff?
Very, very, very, very, very true!!!
I am also from the crowd who wants always the new phones. But whats the point.
They are keep convincing us like the car manifactures more HP better the car and less the fuel. Quadcore is like you have car with 700 HP but no road to drive?!?!
Optimization is the keyword.......
It would be nice if our hardware held value and prowess for more than 6 months. Although the technology advances are nice. The good thing about it, is that we can sell our devices to fund the replacement. It's a trade off I suppose.
Sent from my Galaxy Note (SGH-i717) using XDA Premium.
I don't know. I don't know ,whether their is a need for tablets, either. It seems like that the big companys found something that everyone wants to have, so they are just want to make money i guess.
This question has been bugging me for quite a while now, its purely theoretical and I didnt know where to ask it but I think there are people here who have some idea.
Basicaly, when you take certain amount of money, lets say 700€ or something like that, and you pick windows notebook/tablet and android tablet for that same price, there is an epic difference in computing power and other stuff.
Im not talking about operating systems, Im talking about parts in those devices.
Lets say we are comparing Asus Transformer Infinity and this random notebook: ASUS N61JQ-JX014X
They are almost exactly the same price, but when we compare their specifications.... well, notebook is the clear winner (Dont know about the graphics though, but I think its around the same, correct me if im wrong)
So Im asking why is that? Why dont we get the same specifications for android as for windows in that same price category?
PS: Im not hating or anything, I would just like to know.
That's just how it is. Its just based on demand and "hype". Look at macs for example. You could get a much better windows PC (hardware spec wise) for far cheaper than some macs with pretty low-end specs in comparison.
Another example, iPhones. Anyone can see that an iPhone does not have top specs yet it may be far more expensive than a "better" Android device.
Simple
3DeX said:
This question has been bugging me for quite a while now, its purely theoretical and I didnt know where to ask it but I think there are people here who have some idea.
Basicaly, when you take certain amount of money, lets say 700€ or something like that, and you pick windows notebook/tablet and android tablet for that same price, there is an epic difference in computing power and other stuff.
Im not talking about operating systems, Im talking about parts in those devices.
Lets say we are comparing Asus Transformer Infinity and this random notebook: ASUS N61JQ-JX014X
They are almost exactly the same price, but when we compare their specifications.... well, notebook is the clear winner (Dont know about the graphics though, but I think its around the same, correct me if im wrong)
So Im asking why is that? Why dont we get the same specifications for android as for windows in that same price category?
PS: Im not hating or anything, I would just like to know.
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'
Really simple answer: new technology. Why is it that computers from 1980 which had 33mhz processors and 1.5KB of ram are 6x more expensive than the laptop I just got with a quad core i7. Phone technology is newer, and therefore will cost more, until they invent new ways to produce them cheaper
one of them is kinda a touchscreen, i think. also have to pack the processor more tightly into the screen, rather than in some keyboard.
3DeX said:
This question has been bugging me for quite a while now, its purely theoretical and I didnt know where to ask it but I think there are people here who have some idea.
Basicaly, when you take certain amount of money, lets say 700€ or something like that, and you pick windows notebook/tablet and android tablet for that same price, there is an epic difference in computing power and other stuff.
Im not talking about operating systems, Im talking about parts in those devices.
Lets say we are comparing Asus Transformer Infinity and this random notebook: ASUS N61JQ-JX014X
They are almost exactly the same price, but when we compare their specifications.... well, notebook is the clear winner (Dont know about the graphics though, but I think its around the same, correct me if im wrong)
So Im asking why is that? Why dont we get the same specifications for android as for windows in that same price category?
Forgot to add it is a lot harder/costlier to manufacturer smaller components and fit them into a smaller housing.
PS: Im not hating or anything, I would just like to know.
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Agree with Theonew. Think about it there are far more notebooks running windows than people using tablets. This means that it is going to be much easier to make a profit on a windows notebook, than on a tablet. Remember tablets use relatively newer technology than what notebooks use so the cost to manufacturer goes up. Companies are always look for a way to make a profit, and cut cost to reach that goal, and with tech the first thing they look at is downgrading the specs. Android just is no where near as popular as windows (since 90% of the worlds computers are running some form of it) so those who create windows notebooks can afford to but better specs in their machines because there's a much higher demand for it. It is always about supply and demand, cutting cost, and getting the biggest profit margin when selling products
obscuresword said:
Companies are always look for a way to make a profit, and cut cost to reach that goal, and with tech the first thing they look at is downgrading the specs. Android just is no where near as popular as windows (since 90% of the worlds computers are running some form of it) so those who create windows notebooks can afford to but better specs in their machines because there's a much higher demand for it. It is always about supply and demand, cutting cost, and getting the biggest profit margin when selling products
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Sorry, but this is all BS.
If there's more demand for something, the price goes up, not down. Manufactures would raise prices as much as they can in order to maximize their profit.
In particular, they wouldn't just add more power out of gratefulness to the consumer. Why erode into your profits when you don't need to?
If your story was an accurate portrayal, then Windows machines would actually be more expensive than Android, for the same power. Evidently the opposite is the case.
(In fact, it is supply and demand, but in this case, due to more expensive technologies, the supply is weaker for the tablets. This is what drives the relatively high costs. It's definitely not demand for the tablets that are driving it.)
Hello,
(excuse me for errors in my language)
Do you think we have reach the limits of performance and usability with the latest hardware available on the market for our smartphone ?
We can put it this way: Do you think it is still useful to buy smartphone with more powerful hardware than S4 or this type of phone ?
They are definitly smooth, and for their use, I think pay for more is useless.
But maybe their use will change, they will somehow replace our desktop pc in the way we can connect them to screen and mouse everywhere we go (I know that ubuntu touch already does this).
Thanks
I'm sure we haven't reached out limits. Android owns the phone market right now and I'm sure it will go a long way. As for the price the price will always be crap. I think the highest phone for a no contract I have seen was a iPhone 5 for 700. I'm sure the prices will keep going up.
Sent from my LG-LG730 using xda app-developers app
The industry will always strive to develop faster, smaller and more efficient hardware. And software developers will always find new ways to make use of that hardware.
Smartphones are becoming more and more multi-purpose platforms. With USB OTG, this direction is clearly defined. The increasing screen size is also a product of that. You can already use many phones as a more grown-up multimedia device, connected to your AV equipment and external controllers. This opens up a whole different arena, both in regards to software possibilities, and harware requirements accordngly.
There really is no real limit as to how far this train will go - especially considering the ammount of money people are willing to pay for their phones. And with the chinese marked and developement coming rushing up like a mountain on wheels from behind - both development time and price level is likely to drop a little, rather than increase.
Moore's law. A model that predicts the experiential increase of computing power. As for cellphones, I think it is about demand and supply. The processors in the latest phones have reached a limit threshold on what a consumer would use it for. Before when processors was lacking, consumers wanted better ones resulting in manufacturer competition on who has the fastest phone. First the 1GHz race then the quad core race and now we have 2GHz quad cores. There is now not as much demand for faster CPUs in phones atleast so manufacturers and focusing on other areas to compete for who has the best phone such as better battery, better screen, fast 4G, lighter, etc.