Calling Dibs on phones in Marketplace?

Calling Dibs on phones in Marketplace? - General Topics

So I'm frequent this site a fair amount, especially the marketplace section. I'm not a huge buyer/seller the way some people are, but I'm curious as to what members think of people calling dibs or reserving items. It seems that there have been more and more members recently who either 1. find threads where a buyer is tentatively selling a phone or 2. are unable to pay for a phone immediately, but want the phone and because they were the first to see the thread they feel entitled to it.
In my opinion this not only goes against the community feel of the thread, but is just poor form in general. I think that until someone has sent money for the phone it should be open to everyone. Yes I believe in a first come first serve rule, but I'm not a fan of people checking the site every five minutes and calling dibs on any thread they're interested in. It's one thing to express interest in buying the phone, and it's another to say " I want this phone, hold it for me"
This is especially annoying because as of late it seems like we have gotten an influx of foreign buyers who are the main culprits of this. Not to name names but I specifically remember a case the other day where a member said that he was getting a large shipment of AT&T phones for sale. Only a few minutes later a number of members had posted claiming they had first dibs on the pick of the phones.
All in all this doesn't really affect me, but as I look around the marketplace it's something I find slightly annoying. Anyways what do you guys think? Maybe I'm just oversensitive to it.
Edit: To add one previous point I left out. The reason this probably bothers me the most, isn't just the fact that these people want these phones badly, it's the fact that I'm pretty sure they're just buying the phones for resale. It's one thing to really want the phone for yourself or a friend or family member. But I see a some overseas members buying up tons of BNIB phones and I'm sure they're able to sell them back home for a profit. Once again, there are no rules against this and people are welcome to do as these please, but the goodwill of some members to sell their phones for lower than average prices shouldn't be exploited.

This is completely wrong in my opinion too. Just report them and a moderator should resolve the issue.

I'm pretty sure any seller in their right mind would ignore "dibs" if another potential buyer sent money first.
seems like a non-issue to me. in the end, it's up to the seller who is going to get the phone, not the guy calling dibs... that's elementary school **** that doesn't apply in the real world.

bholloway said:
So I'm frequent this site a fair amount, especially the marketplace section. I'm not a huge buyer/seller the way some people are, but I'm curious as to what members think of people calling dibs or reserving items. It seems that there have been more and more members recently who either 1. find threads where a buyer is tentatively selling a phone or 2. are unable to pay for a phone immediately, but want the phone and because they were the first to see the thread they feel entitled to it.
In my opinion this not only goes against the community feel of the thread, but is just poor form in general. I think that until someone has sent money for the phone it should be open to everyone. Yes I believe in a first come first serve rule, but I'm not a fan of people checking the site every five minutes and calling dibs on any thread they're interested in. It's one thing to express interest in buying the phone, and it's another to say " I want this phone, hold it for me"
This is especially annoying because as of late it seems like we have gotten an influx of foreign buyers who are the main culprits of this. Not to name names but I specifically remember a case the other day where a member said that he was getting a large shipment of AT&T phones for sale. Only a few minutes later a number of members had posted claiming they had first dibs on the pick of the phones.
All in all this doesn't really affect me, but as I look around the marketplace it's something I find slightly annoying. Anyways what do you guys think? Maybe I'm just oversensitive to it.
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You may be a bit oversensitive to it, yes, but that's not to say you're making it up completely. I think you're right to be a bit irked that some numbers on a hard drive somewhere can be converted into a suggestion that person a will give person b some money at time x when they may or may not have it.
Personally though, I blame the sellers for shoddy selling, not the buyers. If I was a seller and somebody said dibs, I'd just ignore it. When I'm selling stuff I prefer currency to promises.

Archer said:
...I blame the sellers for shoddy selling... When I'm selling stuff I prefer currency to promises.
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^^ that is the correct answer.

LMAO! if i were the seller i could care less who saw or called dibs on it first
i'll be delivered to whomever can paid for it in full first

Related

Stop treating the "Wooters" like idiots

Is it just me or are the folks here a little catty with the "wooters"? You'd think we don't know how to operate technology. Did I spell all that correctly? But seriously, thanks to the good folks trying to help. I just don't like the pompous comments like the newcomers can't operate a tablet and some software. Peace.

ArkansasRazorbacks said:
Is it just me or are the folks here a little catty with the "wooters"? You'd think we don't know how to operate technology. Did I spell all that correctly? But seriously, thanks to the good folks trying to help. I just don't like the pompous comments like the newcomers can't operate a tablet and some software. Peace.
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Click to collapse
Hi,
I think that it was discovered fairly recently that there are some serious potential incompatibilities in the latest unofficial rom (3991), and the devs, and others have had their hands full trying to help people. I don't know firsthand, but I imagine between this forum, the irc channel, and PMs, they must helped a ton of people.
Then the woot deal happened this week, and everybody probably worried about multiples of that, so I think the posts/threads about "be careful", were just proactive to try to help users avoid problems.
JMHO.
Jim

I'm a "Wooter" and came over here to get info on ROM/firmware builds for the device. I'm a current unhacked Archos 70 owner, and have had Samsung Captivate and HTC Evo 4G as well.
I haven't really seen _much_ condescension from this community on the Woot influx. Just some tongue-in-cheek "there goes the neighborhood" and "here come the n00bs" stuff.
I'm ready to admit that I am a n00b with the Viewsonic device, but welcome any help and "ROMs for Dummies" tutorials from this community.
My device should be here on Tuesday, so I hope to see a built and optimized 2.3 firmware package by Wednesday. :-D

jimcpl said:
Hi,
I think that it was discovered fairly recently that there are some serious potential incompatibilities in the latest unofficial rom (3991), and the devs, and others have had their hands full trying to help people. I don't know firsthand, but I imagine between this forum, the irc channel, and PMs, they must helped a ton of people.
Then the woot deal happened this week, and everybody probably worried about multiples of that, so I think the posts/threads about "be careful", were just proactive to try to help users avoid problems.
JMHO.
Jim
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That may be somewhat true but when I first bought my GTab and I got it from Office Depot and came to this thread I experienced the same unfriendly treatment. Most are just trying to learn and better GTab. Not here for confrontation, argument or unnecessary challenge.
To the original poster, I get what you are saying and don't feel singled out because you are Woot. Some here don't make newcomers feel welcome. Why I don't know. After awhile (and it should not exist at all) it tapers off, hopefully for you more sooner than later. Enjoy your GTab.

I'm a wooter, too. My woot gtab should arrive tomorrow. That said, you have to admit that the woot deal is probably the single factor that brought/will bring a significant higher people to this site. And please understand that many of us have spent years dealing with the non-tech savy. We know how the typical non-tech savy behave.

What I've generally seen so far is a lot of "please read the FAQ's" and "please use search" and "please read the instructions thoroughly when modding". I've also done a few tongue in cheek comments, but if anything else I'm not being condescending -- if anything else I'm a little nervous at the amount of users that might be coming. Everyone was a n00b once.
When new users come in small dribs and drabs, I think the forum has been able to handle it. But if there are potentially hundreds of new users in the next week, it's going to be complete madness.
I've actually re-written ALL my main posts, with Woot users in mind. If anything else, the Wooters have gotten me off my sorry arse and gotten me to really look at my instructions and go through them with a fine-tooth comb to ensure that stuff is clear.
One of the other reasons for my own temporary push of posts is because it's EOM and I may have a smaller footprint this week (work stuff). So I'm spouting my concerns now before my visibility is lessened.

roebeet said:
What I've generally seen so far is a lot of "please read the FAQ's" and "please use search" and "please read the instructions thoroughly when modding". I've also done a few tongue in cheek comments, but if anything else I'm not being condescending -- if anything else I'm a little nervous at the amount of users that might be coming. Everyone was a n00b once.
When new users come in small dribs and drabs, I think the forum has been able to handle it. But if there are potentially hundreds of new users in the next week, it's going to be complete madness.
I've actually re-written ALL my main posts, with Woot users in mind. If anything else, the Wooters have gotten me off my sorry arse and gotten me to really look at my instructions and go through them with a fine-tooth comb to ensure that stuff is clear.
One of the other reasons for my own temporary push of posts is because it's EOM and I may have a smaller footprint this week (work stuff). So I'm spouting my concerns now before my visibility is lessened.
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Thanks, Roebeet and I am laughing. It is always rough when you are starting out with new equipment even if it is functioning properly. Throw unstable into the mix and you will have tens of thousands trying to figure out stability real fast.
Also, I cruised Amazon's tabs yesterday and they have GTab as number one best selling on their site. The buyer's reviews all point to XDA and immediately modding your tab. I'm not kidding. This tab was a sleeper because most tech mags--cnet, pc mag, pc world, etc. gave it bad reviews. However, when people got their hands on one (from at a store, friend, peer, colleague, family member or such) it was a different story. The general public is now starting to respond favorably to GTab. You may get even more traffic.
I like your spirit though, you are good people. Look at this community as the future "tech forum facebook" 500 million and counting... Hey it is a blessing when you have multiple mainstream sites throwing traffic your way. You don't have to work at SEO rankings. Please translate that to some of the other people who are here already that make newcomers feel unwelcome. The term wooters is not nice. What happened to "new G Tab owners"? Some egos here need to be minimized on the task bar or forced close. -Peace, mostly this is a good site offering a wealth of information.

My $.02 ..
the people who have been on here, and owned a gtab for a while are the people who are more apt to purchase bleeding-edge gadgets, and are generally more savy and aware of potential problems..
Some may be viewing the "wooters" as uninformed consumers looking for the best deal ..
yeah, i realize this is a huge generalization but i imagine alot of people are thinking the same thing..
so i say "Welcome wooters !" (just don't ask a question thats been answered 38 times) hehe

edirector said:
Thanks, Roebeet and I am laughing. It is always rough when you are starting out with new equipment even if it is functioning properly. Throw unstable into the mix and you will have tens of thousands trying to figure out stability real fast.
Also, I cruised Amazon's tabs yesterday and they have GTab as number one best selling on their site. The buyer's reviews all point to XDA and immediately modding your tab. I'm not kidding. This tab was a sleeper because most tech mags--cnet, pc mag, pc world, etc. gave it bad reviews. However, when people got their hands on one (from at a store, friend, peer, colleague, family member or such) it was a different story. The general public is now starting to respond favorably to GTab. You may get even more traffic.
I like your spirit though, you are good people. Look at this community as the future "tech forum facebook" 500 million and counting... Hey it is a blessing when you have multiple mainstream sites throwing traffic your way. You don't have to work at SEO rankings. Please translate that to some of the other people who are here already that make newcomers feel unwelcome. The term wooters is not nice. What happened to "new G Tab owners"? Some egos here need to be minimized on the task bar or forced close. -Peace, mostly this is a good site offering a wealth of information.
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I was a Wooter long before I joined XDA - don't worry, it's an acceptable term and we wear it with pride.
Btw, I have NEVER managed to snag a Bandolier of Carrots - always a bridesmaid, never a bride.....

ArkansasRazorbacks said:
Is it just me or are the folks here a little catty with the "wooters"? You'd think we don't know how to operate technology. Did I spell all that correctly? But seriously, thanks to the good folks trying to help. I just don't like the pompous comments like the newcomers can't operate a tablet and some software. Peace.
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Click to collapse
I know this is off topic but couldn't help and notice you're a Razorbacks fan. Good to see another Arkansas guy here on the forums. Where are you located? I'm in Conway right now attending UCA. I'm also another wooter waiting for his G-Tablet!

Maybe us Wooters could be put to use. I'd be glad to donate some time to work on a wiki, for example, although I've never actually put one together. Surely there is something that new board members could do.

Sorry for the long post but I must echo the sentiments of others. It is not the intent of most to make new members feel unwelcome, as I can remember when I first got the Gtabs for my wife and myself after finding the community support of XDA. Even in the smaller Gtab/XDA community, members had problems and needed to be helped, many would not use the search function and just ask repeatedly about issues that had already been addressed and resolved. Now that Android tablets are coming to light with the heavily advertised Xoom, the fear is simply that thanks to the overwhelming response to WOOT the common questions will appear again and again as our great forums expand to receive more and more new members. I'm sure that there is no animosity or malice intended, just an attempt to make new members aware of possible pitfalls and resolutions. More users will make this forum and the Gtab better and better.
Welcome to all

I don't think the majority of the users are treating Wooters as idiots, just trying to make their Gtab experience a good one. R emember that when most of us started adding ROMs there weren't several stock builds and several dozen flavors of ROMs to choose from. Also the users that experienced severe interaction problems were bleeding edge guys who expected issues and were willing to work through them. Based on many of the new owners questions, many are expecting to load a new ROM and have an ipad killer. As you read the rooting instructions don't skip the " Risk" section.

Its not just going to be the wooters. Circut City and Tiger Direct selling it for $299. there will be alot of wooters, Tigers and Circiters I guess. This forum is going to explode soon with folks. I dont think people are condesending but I think alot of folks are nerveous about the amount of people coming in here by next weekend.

Here's the biggest drawback I see.
1.) Influx of lazy forum users who post a question without searching. Those new threads go unanswered or with more knowledgeable members say "Use the search". Now, non-lazy forum users come in, with their newly purchased GTab, hit the search, and they end up with 3 pages of useless threads as listed before.
2.) The knowledgeable members need to work on concentrating the info into ONE FAQ or Wiki style. Right now, the number of stuck threads is getting a tad ridiculous. When there are 12 stuck threads that say "READ FIRST", it falls into the same category as the saying "If everything is high priority, nothing is".
I almost wish we could lock the ROMs from being downloaded, until someone has READ 10 threads (as opposed to being able to post in the dev section prior to posting 10 times).
In saying all that, I read a lot before I bought my tab, I read a few threads multiple times AFTER I bought my tab, to make sure I was doing it right. I just wish others had the same patience and diligence.

vaccdroid said:
Its not just going to be the wooters. Circut City and Tiger Direct selling it for $299. there will be alot of wooters, Tigers and Circiters I guess. This forum is going to explode soon with folks. I dont think people are condesending but I think alot of folks are nerveous about the amount of people coming in here by next weekend.
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Nervous? I'm terrified.
I've been on the Woot! GTAB discussion thread, heavily. Long before I chimed in, XDA was mentioned repeatedly over there.
h3llphyre said:
Here's the biggest drawback I see.
1.) Influx of lazy forum users who post a question without searching. Those new threads go unanswered or with more knowledgeable members say "Use the search". Now, non-lazy forum users come in, with their newly purchased GTab, hit the search, and they end up with 3 pages of useless threads as listed before.
2.) The knowledgeable members need to work on concentrating the info into ONE FAQ or Wiki style. Right now, the number of stuck threads is getting a tad ridiculous. When there are 12 stuck threads that say "READ FIRST", it falls into the same category as the saying "If everything is high priority, nothing is".
I almost wish we could lock the ROMs from being downloaded, until someone has READ 10 threads (as opposed to being able to post in the dev section prior to posting 10 times).
In saying all that, I read a lot before I bought my tab, I read a few threads multiple times AFTER I bought my tab, to make sure I was doing it right. I just wish others had the same patience and diligence.
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When I re-wrote my ROM posts, I moved the downloads nearer to the bottom, on purpose, with the hopes that new users would read through the post first. Probably unlikely, but worth a shot.
Btw, there's already a request for a Wiki or main FAQ section, via the moderator thread in General (I chimed in, as well). But I don't get the feeling that it's going to happen, at least not yet.

roebeet said:
Nervous? I'm terrified.
I've been on the Woot! GTAB discussion thread, heavily. Long before I chimed in, XDA was mentioned repeatedly over there.
When I re-wrote my ROM posts, I moved the downloads nearer to the bottom, on purpose, with the hopes that new users would read through the post first. Probably unlikely, but worth a shot.
Btw, there's already a request for a Wiki or main FAQ section, via the moderator thread in General (I chimed in, as well). But I don't get the feeling that it's going to happen, at least not yet.
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Lol, I was one of those answering questions and pushing people sitting on the fense over into our yard.
Great device- Great people here Talked work into picking up 9 for the techs .
Selling my personal one and picking up a xoom (got a work one comming now )
I have seen the n00b bashing on this forum before... Sometimes I sympathise with both sides though....
I have seen where the whole first page is 75% I have bricked my tablet HELP!!! and then someone else posts same thing again....
Other times I have seen a single Help post only to be met with USE THE SEARCH N00b!!!... When the issue actually wasn't something answered completely before..
SO I think we all need to take a chill pill (except Roebeet, He is totally exempt and allowed to throw a fit if he wants he he) And just deal with answering the same question 5k times . The returns from it should be pretty good. The larger the community the more developers etc we will also inherit

I am a fellow wooter and am looking forward to getting my G tablet tomorrow. I was pretty intent on doing a mod but with recent posts I am re considering that decision. I just hope that Honeycomb is released for the device eventually, although I will not hold my breath.
Roebeet, I think you should look at this as an opportunity. I have not even received my tablet yet but I have already donated $5 to you. There are over 10,000 new owners who could all use your advice and your expertice. If they all do the same you could have a nice side career. I hope I will never have to bother you for any assitance. I think I will stay stock for a while and then maybe I will try a ROM. I am not a total newb, I did manage to successfully root my Droid and install Gingerbread, but I am always squeamish about modding devices. You can fail a heck of lot easier than you can succeed. But if I do ever need help I think that you are the guy!

Think I am more on the fence about modding also due to the low cost of thbis tablet. If you do something to it you cant return it for a new one at woot. Woot doesnt really do returns easy and if they do take it back you get your money back not a new one. then if you want another you will have to get lucky looking for another deal ( like at Tiger Direct this weekend) or buy one for $400. For me thats too risky to just play around with it.
ALso as for honeycomb on here. Probally a better chance that it will happen considering that there are 10-15 thousand more G Tablet owners now then there were last week. They dont support devices for long if they dont sell but this G tablet is now a big seller. * Woot-Circut Ciity-Tiger Direct etc).

aaron19953 said:
My $.02 ..
the people who have been on here, and owned a gtab for a while are the people who are more apt to purchase bleeding-edge gadgets, and are generally more savy and aware of potential problems..
Some may be viewing the "wooters" as uninformed consumers looking for the best deal ..
yeah, i realize this is a huge generalization but i imagine alot of people are thinking the same thing..
so i say "Welcome wooters !" (just don't ask a question thats been answered 38 times) hehe
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Click to collapse
Well I think those who might feel that way, need to do a reality check. It is really is hard being a noob and everyone starts out as one.
Yes, I am a deal hunter but hardly an uninformed consumer. Hopefully people are aware of what they are getting themselves in for, but true there will be some who have no clue.
From what I have seen/read, the seniors and mods have been good and fair, but like other blogs, the search sucks and people get scared/frustrated so patience and education will be required. It's tough reading a zillion posts to find an answer.
Just my two cents.
FYI I've been a software developer for 25+ years and was literally doing ROMs (as in burning images to silicon) before the idea of smart phones or tablets existed. I worked at a small company named "Poqet Computer" (hence the poqeteer alias), the first pocket sized PC. Unfortunately it was way before its time and like other startups... Died. Also unfortunately that has very little to do with this piece of hardware... So please be kind to this and all other noobs.
- Lance.

has anyone talked to luca chase who got a sensation and NEW DATE FOR UPDATE(maybe)

so i am extremely mad at Tmobile right now. I got a call from their executive office and i was speaking to luca or lusha or somthing like that. basically she told me i was unable to be given a sensation. I then told her that i would be filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau because the people who did on XDA were given Sensations. she then told me she handled all of the Better Business claims and that no one had been given a sensation. but i know for a fact that people on here have been given one. So my question to the community is who offered you a sensation when you called the executive office? i am going to call and ask to speak to them.
Also she told me that at 2:24 today T-mobile received a message saying a software update would come sometime next week. I then asked if it would be gingerbread or just a bug fix. Her response, " Do you know what a software update is? that pissed me of to no end. our conversation ended when she asked me for 20 dollars for a new G2x. i told her she was out of her ****ing mind and told her to be ready for my better business complaint
Then I called corporate so i could file a complaint on lucha or whatever her name was. the lady who answered told me that isn't possible so i asked for the name of the person i was speaking to and she hung up on me. I kept calling back and i kept getting redirected to the desk of luca chase (still not sure how to say or spell her name) and that just royally pissed me off.
i am so mad right now. All i can do is file a complaint. i never expected to be treated this badly.

slowpig38 said:
so i am extremely mad at Tmobile right now. I got a call from their executive office and i was speaking to luca or lusha or somthing like that. basically she told me i was unable to be given a sensation. I then told her that i would be filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau because the people who did on XDA were given Sensations. she then told me she handled all of the Better Business claims and that no one had been given a sensation. but i know for a fact that people on here have been given one. So my question to the community is who offered you a sensation when you called the executive office? i am going to call and ask to speak to them.
Also she told me that at 2:24 today T-mobile received a message saying a software update would come sometime next week. I then asked if it would be gingerbread or just a bug fix. Her response, " Do you know what a software update is? that pissed me of to no end. our conversation ended when she asked me for 20 dollars for a new G2x. i told her she was out of her ****ing mind and told her to be ready for my better business complaint
Then I called corporate so i could file a complaint on lucha or whatever her name was. the lady who answered told me that isn't possible so i asked for the name of the person i was speaking to and she hung up on me. I kept calling back and i kept getting redirected to the desk of luca chase (still not sure how to say or spell her name) and that just royally pissed me off.
i am so mad right now. All i can do is file a complaint. i never expected to be treated this badly.
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This is the problem I see with all the whiners and complainers on this forum. There's a way to communicate, if you lose your cool then you'll get screwed.
Especially in America, people think they're "entitled" to get what they want because of supposed laws or it's in writing, but I tell you this, unless you know the laws to the "T" and you're willing to invest your time, energy, money and so on and so forth, you'll just make it more inconvenient for others, because then the company, even if they're in the wrong, will implement protocols to make it harder for others that come in with the same complaint just because some shmuck didn't know how to communicate without threatening the company.
I'm putting this out because all these complaints will do more harm to us consumers, by making Tmobile or anyother company that feels they're being attacked put up a wall of defenses that will make it less forthcoming for us to do pleasant business with the company, because now we're all looked upon as the enemy.

i only lost my cool after she made it clear that she wouldnt give me a sensation. this was my 3rd time talking to her.

I have a friend that works as a manager at T-mobile who exchanges my phone for a new one everytime a new one I like comes out ... you should also get a friend that manages a store @ tmo ... winning

Seems like a lot of work for one person to handle all of these claims!
Complaint Type Total Closed Complaints
Advertising / Sales Issues 1734
Billing / Collection Issues 9544
Delivery Issues 393
Guarantee / Warranty Issues 478
Other 460
Problems with Product / Service 13784
Total Closed Complaints 26393

Thanks for dragging XDA's name into the mud while *****ing about tmo not giving you **** for free...
Sent from my LG G2x

+1 yeah, no crap. Whiner. Just because others have done it and succeeded and you failed doesn't entitle you to run around and ruin it for everybody else.

well
jacob808 said:
This is the problem I see with all the whiners and complainers on this forum. There's a way to communicate, if you lose your cool then you'll get screwed.
Especially in America, people think they're "entitled" to get what they want because of supposed laws or it's in writing, but I tell you this, unless you know the laws to the "T" and you're willing to invest your time, energy, money and so on and so forth, you'll just make it more inconvenient for others, because then the company, even if they're in the wrong, will implement protocols to make it harder for others that come in with the same complaint just because some shmuck didn't know how to communicate without threatening the company.
I'm putting this out because all these complaints will do more harm to us consumers, by making Tmobile or anyother company that feels they're being attacked put up a wall of defenses that will make it less forthcoming for us to do pleasant business with the company, because now we're all looked upon as the enemy.
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Click to collapse
While i agree that the poster did not handle this right at all. i am fed up with my paycheck being **** paying for all the entitlement programs in this country. BUT we are entitiled to a working phone or a refund. not sure why people want the sensation i have no care for it. the use of entitlment here is not correct since he is entitled to a working phone .
and your last paragraph. the reason people are so pissed off is because of the lack of communication and forthcoming(still believe its out of stock d/t sales)
they already put up the great wall of china and posted it with lies and misleading attempts to get people to hang on to the phone past the 2 weeks.
in no way am i saying that the OP was in the right. but you sounded just as bad.
now lets start spreading this next week date. comeone we need at least 20 threads on it

No $#it man "he got it why can't I" you would probably sell everyone out!!
Faux123 for Dev!!!

Ever hear the saying one bad apple spoils it for the bunch. Well you're the bad apple. You don't get something by demanding it. I really don't think anyone who called really called to get one. We just wanted a phone that works.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App

TJBunch1228 said:
Thanks for dragging XDA's name into the mud while *****ing about tmo not giving you **** for free...
Sent from my LG G2x
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POW!!!!
G2x with CM7 and faux kernel. NONSENSE!!!!

This won't lead to nothing. On that note, thread closed.

Touch Button Issue HTC One S - Communication campaign "Operation Rolling Thunder"

Touch Button Issue HTC One S - Communication campaign "Operation Rolling Thunder"
Hi all,
If you ended up on this thread, it probably means that like many others, including me, you have experienced the so-called "Home button issue" on your HTC One S. To sum it up very briefly, it happens mostly when you're on EDGE and the signal is weak: what then happens is that all the sudden, your phone simulates rapid presses of the Home Button, leading to your display switching constantly between the main Home screen and the "helicopter view" showing the 7 home screens. When it happens, the buttons become useless, and you cannot use your phone anymore. Needless to say it is a really annoying matter...
As you may know, there are many threads that report the issue in many different countries, which leads to believe that hundreds if not thousands of users are having the same issue... XDA has a very complete thread on the matter, which focuses on grouping people reports, hypothetical fixes, leads, ideas, comments etc. I strongly suggest you check it out if you haven't done so yet after you're done reading this post. Here's the link:
SneakyGhost's "report/troubleshooting" thread regarding Home button issue
You will also find a link to a spreadsheet in this thread where you can write yourself in and describe your issue and its circumstances, thus helping people working on the issue to figure out a solution. Big thanks to SneakyGhost and ZoesDad for all the work! Remember to write your details in the sheet when you're through this post if you haven't done so yet. Here's the link:
SneakyGhost's spreadsheet for reporting the issue
Now, if you followed up on this issue, you will soon notice that many users have reported the problem to HTC, starting some months ago. The results were nowhere near satisfying:
No reply at all to their complaints;
Automatic emails from customer support telling people to restart or factory reset their phones, even though they had explained that they had already tried this in their mails;
Requests to send their phones in for repair. After weeks, customers would get their phones returned, with the exact same issue still present;
Emails from HTC stating that they were (finally) aware of the issue and that a patch would be released in the coming days/weeks. That was months ago, nothing has happened as of yet...
Bottom line: Nothing happened, the matter is still not solved, and we are all still stuck with devices that can stop working at any given time if the signal starts going down. Inacceptable. Time to act!
Operation Rolling Thunder
Apparently, HTC needs a little "motivation" so solve this issue, so here is my suggestion (I discussed the idea with some people on SneakyGhost's thread, link to exact page here):
In order to make ourselves heard, we need to join in a combined effort to attract attention of HTC through the media. I therefore started posting negative reviews of the HTC One S on numerous websites that review or sell the product. On each of them, I left a comment reporting this issue and advising people not to buy the phone until the matter was resolved.
...And here is where I need your help: I ask you to take a little time off and start doing the same. I will try to make it as easy and fast for you as possible.
The goal is to "spam" review and sales websites with so many negative reviews that the phone's average note will sink to the bottom. Thus, when people will check out the phone, they will see a quite good editor's note, but a very low users note. They will most probably then read users reviews and find out about the issue, which will lead them to delay their purchase or switch to another model or brand... They will talk/comment about it, and so on.
If enough people in various countries participate to the action, we will make quite some noise, and I am convinced that HTC will hear about it. Actually, my plan is to let them know asap that such an action is ongoing. I want them to be aware of this, and I believe we should regularly "invite" them to read our reviews on famous websites, and let them know that we will not stop until the patch is released. No promise of future upcoming patches will stop this action. The only way for them to stop us from spamming websites with unhappy comments will be the release of a patch that adresses the issue. Only then will we stop our action and edit our reviews/comments.
Operation Rolling Thunder: Phases
Phase One:
Leave posts/reviews/comments on famous review and/or sales websites
Send updates regularly to HTC about progress. If no patch after 1-2 weeks, proceed to phase two.
Phase Two:
Send emails to the carriers/tech supports of respective countries
Send regular updates to HTC about progress. If no patch after 1-2 weeks, proceed to phase three.
Phase Three:
Send emails to the media: bloggers, press...
Send regular updates to HTC about progress. If no patch by then... Improvise.
Now, I have already started with phase one on my own, and if you want things to change, I hereby invite you to join me in my effort to "motivate" our friends at HTC.
Remember to check out the two next posts. I wrote them to provide you with useful tools and advice, so that you can easily contribute to the action:
- Review templates in different languages
- Direct links to the product pages on famous websites for posting
- Some advice (my two cents)
Report your contributions:
After posting your reviews, don't forget to post your contribution through this form!
It will help us keep track of progress and maintain pressure on HTC!
You can check out the results at any given time in this spreadsheet!
(Many thanks to SneakyGhost for his advice and the idea of the sheet :good
Please keep this thread tidy:
Thank you for not postings rants, complaints or non-constructive comments on this thread. It is important, especially if we relay a link to this thread to the media/press at a later stage, that it remains factual. Posts are reserved for the following:
Your reports on where you posted reviews, in order to show involvement
Your suggestions on new links to websites to post reviews on
Constructive remarks.
Remember that this post is dedicated to the Home screen issue ONLY!
Don't forget to fill out the form when you are done posting your reviews! Here are the links to the form and to the spreadsheet!
Thank you in advance for your effort, may this campaign be successful... for all our sakes :highfive:

Post/review templates and advice
Below are some links to reviews/comments I wrote in different languages. Feel free to copy/paste them (or edit them, if you disagree on certain aspects: it's your review!) if you don't feel like writing them yourself.
Some advice when it comes to reviewing (if I may...):
A general note of no more than one star (less if possible) would be appropriate for this phone as long as the bug persists, don't you think?
Don't be hostile/rude... You are probably pissed by now and tired of waiting, but try to keep things civil. It will add to the credibility of this action and benefit the results. We don't want to sound like raving idiots, but rather like a determined group of people who want to make things happen...
I believe that it writing in the title of your review that this phone would deserve a better note if the issue was gone might help encourage HTC to provide a fix. Just stating the HTC One S is a **it phone will probably not encourage them so much, rather the opposite.
Please insert a link to this thread and SneakyGhost's in your reviews, so people can read about the issue and know what we are talking about. They should know that this is a legitimate effort, not some loose and unmotivated ranting...
In order to keep things fair, I plan to edit/adapt my reviews when HTC has fixed the issue. I hope you'll do the same...
Let's act like gentlemen: the phone wouldn't deserve such a bad note if it wasn't for this bug. Let's remember that when a fix removes the issue.
Here are the review templates:
- In English
- In French
- In German (I'm not so great in German, so you might want to adapt a little )
Don't forget to fill out the form when you are done posting your reviews! Here are the links to the form and to the spreadsheet!
Thanks for your help!

Links to review/sales websites
Here are some links to websites you might want to post on. Of course, you are welcome to post on other relevant places too.
Leave a comment in this thread with the links, and I'll update the list whenever I can!
Remember that some websites may have several HTC One Ses on sale. They can all be reviewed...
Some advice on speeding things up:
You'll always have to create a user on the websites you post on. Thankfully, it usually requires a username and a mail adress. No big deal, one minute tops! Facebook login works too sometimes...
This is how I do when a website has the HTC One S several times for sale (aka Amazon): I search for the HTS One S, then sort from highest price down in order to avoid cases and accessories. When the list appears, I open every HTC One S page in a new tab. I then go to the reviews page for each of them and start copy/pasting. It took me barely 10 minutes to review 20 HTC One S on an Amazon!
Don't comment on somebody else's review, make your own. That way, you can give a (1-star) note.
You may post on French post even if you're not French. Trust in my post
Here are the links. I tried to make sure you would end up on the right page (review page or list page with HTC One Ses)
English:
Cnet.com (post confirmed)
Cnet.com.au (post confirmed)
Amazon.com (post confirmed)
Amazon.co.uk (post confirmed)
GSMarena.com (post confirmed)
Techradar.com (post confirmed)
German:
Amazon.de (post confirmed)
Saturn.de (post confirmed)
CyberPort.de (post confirmed)
Pixmania.de
French:
Amazon.fr (post confirmed)
LesNumériques (post confirmed)
Clubic.com
Pixmania.fr
Darty.fr
LesMobiles (post confirmed)
FrAndroid (post confirmed)
TomsGuide.fr (post confirmed)
cDiscount
Don't forget to fill out the form when you are done posting your reviews! Here are the links to the form and to the spreadsheet!

Posts to publish on forums and gather people
Here are post templates you can use in order to rally people on other forums to join this action/thread. Don't forget to leave posts in video comments too
Post Template (EN)
Post Template (FR)
Post Template (DE) (I'm not so great in German, so you might want to adapt a little )
Help me spread the word. Thank you!

Right mate. That'll be a rush of people showing up I hope.
From the posts surfacing in my thread now I get the feeling that some where drawn here from sales sites already.
I haven't gotten to read through your reviews yet so forgive my ignorance: have you thought of dropping a link to this xda thread and/or mine in your reviews?
One thing I deem of major importance is making the spreadsheet reflect a true picture of the situation out there. That'll be only possible if we reach as many people as possible. So I think having the sheet linked to the product directly it would get us closer to that goal. At last 430 potential reviewers can spread it quite far and fast I guess.
Power to the masses!
Somehow I really like mobilizing a lit of people in a short time.
Have you ever heard of avaaz.org? They've gotten the most brilliant campaigning concept I know of. They managed to get a million signatures in 24h for some campaigns...
Feel the Viper!

Sneakyghost said:
I haven't gotten to read through your reviews yet so forgive my ignorance: have you thought of dropping a link to this xda thread and/or mine in your reviews?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point. Not always. I urged people to google the issue, but no direct links. Had done most of the reviewing before getting active here. I ll update my templates so the links are in there. Thanks.
Sneakyghost said:
One thing I deem of major importance is making the spreadsheet reflect a true picture of the situation out there. That'll be only possible if we reach as many people as possible. So I think having the sheet linked to the product directly it would get us closer to that goal. At last 430 potential reviewers can spread it quite far and fast I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. How do you suggest we achieve this? I was planning on PMing those who left their usernames in your sheet. Do you have a quicker solution?
Sneakyghost said:
Somehow I really like mobilizing a lit of people in a short time.
Have you ever heard of avaaz.org? They've gotten the most brilliant campaigning concept I know of. They managed to get a million signatures in 24h for some campaigns...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, heard about them. I think we can start as planned, and if we need some help because things aren't going fast enough, we could find some inspiration/help over there. Yet I think that even a few hundred people can achieve a lot, if they do the posting properly. As I said earlier, most product pages only have maybe a dozen reviews, so our posts will definitely tilt the balance.

Sneakyghost said:
I haven't gotten to read through your reviews yet so forgive my ignorance: have you thought of dropping a link to this xda thread and/or mine in your reviews?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Done! Please remember to set up a little description of this thread and big fat link leading here on your first post, will you?
Thanks!

I have not experienced the problem but I'm all in for this
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app

I appreciate your willingness to help us out, I really do, but I will have to ask you to stand down if you haven't experienced the home screen issue yet. I want ONLY people who really have this problem to post about it, or at least through this action/thread.
Why? Well, because if others do so, it undermines credibility. I want honest statements on these review websites, from people who have seen this bug first hand.
That's my official point of view on the matter. Of course, I cannot stop you from helping us anyway
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda app-developers app

I have now left comments on most videos about this phone I could come across: reviews, but also problem reports etc.
I might have forgotten some: you are welcome to help me out
Remember: TOGETHER, WE ARE LEGION!
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda app-developers app

I'm sorry but is this really a real issue? My whole family (not including baby brother) has the oneS were all rooted and on different ROMs(my sister just prefers stock though) and none of us have had this problem... not even once. I truly believe it is not fair for people to write bad reviews on phones because of one issue a select few are having... and ones has 4g why are you using edge? Leave a one star rating? How about you get a new phone and leave this beauty to us?
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app

I have two devices and one is ok.
I think there's people though who got a return from service with a new phone 4 times and the issue is still there. Look over at the Vodafone UK forums.
Since the facts show that it is spread over all production batches and all software variants and also even happens on the 850/1900mhz band, although far less frequent, we came to believe that this issue can theoretically affect every unit.
Those who do not suffer it are considered lucky ones for now.
I am aware that this is all looking very grim but I'm sure it really isn't. Just HTC's response is dark and grim.
It's mainly about putting more pressure on HTC since they have fobbed us of since basically April now.
I am very very sorry if this concerns you as happy user. Basically the idea for such a campaign already came up at around the end of July when I and zoesdad where discussing options but we opted to hold off such actions and also discourage others from doing so out of fairness reasons.
We have now reached a span of six month nearly consisting of nothing but empty promises and denial. It is just enough now.
Also keep in mind that we will change the reviews and take back everything we can as soon as HTC commits to the issue in the shape of a real fix.
Thank you for your understanding.
[EDIT]
Gibarian,
I have now begun to post some reviews (managed to cover cnet) but my lunchbreak is short...
I would like to edit your german template, impressive german you got there (where do you come from mate?), but i would like to take out a few minor glitches, makes it sound a little smoother then. Do you mind?
Here's the edit. Take it or leave it: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pJUpTGLz8PNJkwqwRg1IhardJys172wwyv3sMp5Zvh4/edit

Roundtableprez said:
I'm sorry but is this really a real issue? My whole family (not including baby brother) has the oneS were all rooted and on different ROMs(my sister just prefers stock though) and none of us have had this problem... not even once. I truly believe it is not fair for people to write bad reviews on phones because of one issue a select few are having... and ones has 4g why are you using edge? Leave a one star rating? How about you get a new phone and leave this beauty to us?
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more on SneakyGhost's reply on your post. I share this 100%
I'm really happy for you, I just wish all of us would have the same things to report, trust me.
I haven't enjoyed spending half my day and my whole night all the way to 5am writing this thread, the reviews, the posts, the sheets and forms, the advices, the research and all the posting. I would have loved to just sit back in my garden and toy with my phone (which is a beauty, no argument there!) Unfortunately I can't, because of this issue. I had it no later than today when using the GPS, which would just disappear and the screen would go crazy. No way to rely on it...
As SneakyGhost pointed out, we unfortunate ones feel neglected and are disappointed by HTC's lack of action. Thus the action.
Remember this:
- We plan to adjust our reviews as soon as the bug has been mended
- We clearly point out that the bad review is due to this bug
- We urge people to remain civil
You might want to read what I replied to maek_it_happen a few posts higher, and who was offering to help even if he did not have the issue (thanks again): we do not encourage this, because we want our claim to be justified and forwarded only by people who suffer from this issue. I believe that is fair, no?
And about using 4G instead of EDGE: Man, don't you think I would do so if I could? I don't choose to connect to the slowest network available. Maybe I do so because there's nothing else around... Btw, the technical sheet of our phone clearly states that is compatible to EDGE. So...
Enjoy your phone, and please wish for all of us here to be able to do the same pretty soon
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda app-developers app

Sneakyghost said:
Gibarian,
I have now begun to post some reviews (managed to cover cnet) but my lunchbreak is short...
I would like to edit your german template, impressive german you got there (where do you come from mate?), but i would like to take out a few minor glitches, makes it sound a little smoother then. Do you mind?
Here's the edit. Take it or leave it: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pJUpTGLz8PNJkwqwRg1IhardJys172wwyv3sMp5Zvh4/edit
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks SneakyGhost. You work on sundays? Oh man, sorry to hear that...
Check out my profile: I'm from Luxembourg. Puts me on the crossroads between France, Germany and Belgium. And my wife is swedish, so English is the way to go at home
I will insert your template: I'm sure it's better than mine
I'll PM you to grant you admin rights to all the documents: it will make things easier.
CU!
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda app-developers app

Sneakyghost said:
Gibarian,
I have now begun to post some reviews (managed to cover cnet) but my lunchbreak is short...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice. Cheers! Hopefully others will follow your lead
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda app-developers app

Sneakyghost said:
I have two devices and one is ok.
I think there's people though who got a return from service with a new phone 4 times and the issue is still there. Look over at the Vodafone UK forums.
Since the facts show that it is spread over all production batches and all software variants and also even happens on the 850/1900mhz band, although far less frequent, we came to believe that this issue can theoretically affect every unit.
Those who do not suffer it are considered lucky ones for now.
I am aware that this is all looking very grim but I'm sure it really isn't. Just HTC's response is dark and grim.
It's mainly about putting more pressure on HTC since they have fobbed us of since basically April now.
I am very very sorry if this concerns you as happy user. Basically the idea for such a campaign already came up at around the end of July when I and zoesdad where discussing options but we opted to hold off such actions and also discourage others from doing so out of fairness reasons.
We have now reached a span of six month nearly consisting of nothing but empty promises and denial. It is just enough now.
Also keep in mind that we will change the reviews and take back everything we can as soon as HTC commits to the issue in the shape of a real fix.
Thank you for your understanding.
[EDIT]
Gibarian,
I have now begun to post some reviews (managed to cover cnet) but my lunchbreak is short...
I would like to edit your german template, impressive german you got there (where do you come from mate?), but i would like to take out a few minor glitches, makes it sound a little smoother then. Do you mind?
Here's the edit. Take it or leave it: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pJUpTGLz8PNJkwqwRg1IhardJys172wwyv3sMp5Zvh4/edit
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You got promises from HTC? Truth full though they support their phones better then most my sidekick never received an update from Samsung. My droid didn't from Motorola. Holy**** my HTC oneS did though. Give it some time you can't expect to fix an edge data problem when everyone uses 3g/4g right away lol. Anyways I'll go back to my thread as to not clutter your guys thread we can argue about the ethics there if you like.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app

Trust me, no real harm done, this is a mere try to threaten a giant. It will probably just show that we are serious but never bring down the sales figures. That is a dream. But a dream worth the while. And mate, it might help us at the end of the day.
HTC promises fixes since two month at least, has released 3 updates (one of them just being a voda) of which each manipulated the issue in a slightly different way and looking at it in sequence gives the impression of HTC actually testing a fix on us. Which is so not right. We are not getting paid as beta testers.
There is one user on a German forum claiming he got an ETA for the final fix, named the 8th of October. I think thats just bullsh from either him or the agent he spoke to. Anyhow: if there is such a thing as an ETA, its just so unfair to not let us know and let us fry in our pains here.
I think many of us would willingly test stuff out and help to get this resolved asap but its just like we are treated like idiots since month. It just makes me feel so stupid and i ask myself why do i do all this data collection, analyzing, thinking about solutions, chatting with people to try desperate measures ( Tecardo already nearly bricked his unit trying to figure out a fix on his own)...
Its just such an EFFIN pain!
It needs to go away.
My phone resorted to locked buttons variant of the issue all freakin day today! kept unlocking it so i could - maybe - use it for a few seconds until the buttons locked up again...
And honestly, i am short of giving up, selling it on ebay and buying a HOX instead on Ebay Local markets every day. Every Day i keep thinking about this but i wont for two reasons: i have some honor left and i wont sell THIS POS to anyone in that state. The other reason: there is no other phone i would feel comfortable with so much. The HOX gets close but honestly, its made from plastic and its not nearly as nice. The phone is too big too.

This whole campaign sounds like a bad idea. Using threats to get your way is not the proper way to get people to listen. All the and reviews will do is discouraged people from buying the one s and if this happens HTC will offer less support. Why spoil the dozen if one egg is bad
Sent from my HTC One S using xda premium

why keep a dozen bad eggs if only one is good?
And: we think we don't threaten. We rather believe we haven been overly fair to a company that is not fair to us. We have all kept very very quiet. Most have not rated the phone or reviewed it yet because most expect this to not hit the majority and most did not take action to not spoil the dozen. We have quietly dealt with HTC support. But now it becomes apparent more and more that HTC support just does nothing, zip, nada. It is a real joke. Not a funny one though. So what this is, is that we are no longer wanting to be quiet. We want everyone else to know that there is problems with these phones. Potential ones. It is not just all candy.
and believe me, the matter has been discussed between us up and down the argument ladder since beginning of august. I said that already. It will NOT permanently damage sales. Naming it a bad idea means you believe in it having more effect than we do.
Trust me, it will NOT have such a major impact. We will never manage to rate it down on all relevant sites. All that will happen is a little too much salt in the pie.
It will draw attention to the problem. Not more. And once HTC acts correctly, the reviews will be all praise and hallelujah.
No whining. We had enough mercy. This should have been sorted at least 3 month ago. The issue became apparent in April. Now we have september. Which is closing in on october. So that makes it getting close to 2 quarters of a year. I and many others reckon one quarter to fix a very serious issue that hits hundreds of people more than adequate.
We don't even have near the resources HTC has but in the same 5 and a half month we got very near the source of the problem. The only thing that keeps a few people from finally fixing it is the goddamn Security HTC put on the phones.
So, ironically, we can't even fix it ourselves even though we probably could because HTC doesn't allow us too.
How would you feel in that situation? I think we act very rational, very well discussed and very controlled.
This will NOT damage anyone.
Please have trust.

Fredfly said:
This whole campaign sounds like a bad idea. Using threats to get your way is not the proper way to get people to listen. All the and reviews will do is discouraged people from buying the one s and if this happens HTC will offer less support. Why spoil the dozen if one egg is bad
Sent from my HTC One S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me make a wild guess here: I am willing to bet that you don't have this issue. Am I right? So you don't have the bad egg. Now imagine you did...
Because if you did, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't say this, especially after having written to HTC for support and gotten an automatic reply, or none at all, or having returned your phone and waited just to end up with the same result etc etc.
Again: if your phone works perfectly, congratulations! I wish I was in your shoes. But I'm not, and neither are many others. So, after having tried every other way, we end up here. If you have a better suggestion, I will gladly take it. Maybe exchange your phone for mine, how about that?
Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything here. Those who want to take part in the action probably have good reason to, because spending time creating user accounts and posting on websites is not that fun. Trust me, I know Yet if people do it, it means that they have a pretty strong motivation to do so, and no other choice.
Bottom line: I am looking forward to enjoying my One S fully, like you probably do, when this issue is fixed. But I will do what it takes to get there!
If you cannot understand this, fair enough. I really hope you won't have to share my experience.
Live long and prosper!

AT&T rep: "Your GS4 is slow because you did not activate it properly."

Returned my GS4 today (that's not the purpose of this thread, so don't bash me), and when the guy asked why I was returning it, I said it's kind of laggy and not enough of an upgrade over my GS3 to warrant keeping. A few minutes later he asked if I ever "activated" the phone, and I said, "I just stuck my SIM card in and it worked." He responded, "Well that is why your GS4 was slow--you did not activate it properly."
I proceeded to explain to him that I did not mean that data was slow, but that the phone itself was laggy, i.e., opening dialer, taking pictures, etc--stuff that has nothing to do with the SIM card or activation. He nevertheless argued with me and insisted that if I had properly activated it instead of just inserting my SIM card, then it would have functioned better. We argued for a minute or two and then I just gave up and said "fine, I would like to return it anyways, thanks."
Anyways, just thought I'd share. The guy clearly has no idea what he's talking about, but it was worth a laugh.

It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.

MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol do these people get ZERO training?
Sent from my HTC One

MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha. Funniest post so far today...

Ugh, this makes me so angry. These AT&T reps remind me of Best Buy employees that sell computers or phones. They are so used to being the "person that knows everything" that they can't deal with being proved wrong or won't see it any other way. For example, I wanted a Macbook Pro and I knew the onboard video card could run my favorite games at a full 60 fps.. So I asked for a sales person to get me the laptop in the cage. Instead, I was given a lecture by the sales person on why "Macs can't play games" and I should get this HP "gaming" laptop (17 inches, neon lights, etc). I tried to educate him on things like bootcamp, nVidia series numbers, and even the games themselves, but nothing got through. He was told at some point in his life that "Macs can't play games" and that's that.
It's gotten to the point where if I want to cancel a service or return a product and they ask "what was wrong?" I simply say "it wasn't the right fit for me" or "I just want to try something else". It's not worth getting in an argument about because there are no winners and you aren't going to educate anyone that gets paid to sell, sell, sell. Educate yourself ahead of time of the store's policies and if the rep tries to give you sh*t, just ask for a manager and be sure you are able to quote policy if need be.

I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.

Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium

I'm fine with people not knowing if its that important i will usually know about it anyways. I just dislike it when I get a bull crap response in return. If I do receive one I don't make a scene and argue with them. I just thought that response was worth a chuckle or two.

atsim said:
Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
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Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.

geokhentix said:
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.
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I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
As for this being a "degrading community" please get off this forum, as it's clearly not for you.

raqball said:
Agree!
It's like people expect that store (best buy, cellular ect) employees all have a BAS or MBA in computer science..
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My only gripe is when the person you are talking to (best buy, AT&T, etc) claims that they KNOW they are right because they've had some Saturday afternoon training.
See my example above. All I did was ask for a Macbook Pro from the Best Buy rep and I was questioned on my purchase. A more recent example was the AT&T rep asking me why I cared about the release date of the Galaxy S4 because "it's not like this is an iPhone". It shouldn't matter if it's the S4, iPhone or even a dumb phone. Just answer my question and I'll be on my way.
Even when I went to the store to pick up the S4, the AT&T rep started the phone, and logged in as his own Gmail account and installed a "task killer". He had the phone behind the desk where I couldn't see and by the time I had gotten it in my hands, he had logged out of his account. I asked simply "why did you install this?" and he said "well that's so your phone doesn't run slow. Just run that every couple days and your good". I just factory reset as soon as I got in the car and went on my way.

mcmb03 said:
I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
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They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
"Degrading community"; go look at the bootloader unlock thread and see how many people are crying and being impatient and just downright rude because djrbliss decided not to release HIS WORK until he sees necessary, and then tell me this community isn't degrading, and if things keep going in this direction, I will find my way off this forum...Because you are right, it's not for me, because I am not an impatient troll that bites the hand that feeds me just because I don't want to wait a few weeks. I do know that this is irrelevant to this thread, but I thought I'd post it anyway. It bothers me so much. I want to punch everyone being jerks in that thread......right in the face.

No I didn't think it was rude. This is xda though people get crazy over the smallest thing. How many lag threads do we have now? Ahaha things get outta hand fast.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium

geokhentix said:
They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
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I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything

mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
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Hey, no worries, all in good fun right? I don't condone lying, but they aren't allowed to tell you they don't know, they'll lose their jobs if that happens too often...they're basically forced to lie if they can't give you a definite answer. Damn, if I get one bad survey, my director breathes down my neck like a dragon and threatens to send me to gitmo.

geokhentix said:
Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.
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As a retail sales leader for one of the major 4 in the US I find the OP to have every right to post what he did and use the Thread title he did. The sales rep that helped him in an effing dolt. Along the same lines as the reps that tell customers that they need to condition a Lithium Ion/Lithium Polymer battery. You need to calm down bro.

mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
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Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people

MrGriffdude said:
Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people
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When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding

geokhentix said:
When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding
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Now that people would definitely believe!

I won't buy another Blu device.

This phone has a lot of potential, but it will never be anything more. The reason I say this is because of Blu's business model, which I was unaware of when I bought the device. They do not have an R&D department. They are just middle men. Gionee makes most of their phones and they simply rebrand them. That is why they offer zero support. They can't. The don't have anything to do with the phone other than distribution. So there will never be upgrades to software unless Gionee makes it, but that probably won't happen because they are not in software development business. They primarily only make the phones, so support is not a major concern for them as well. Blu just constantly buys phones and throws them out there. There was this phone, which was quickly forgotten as they transitioned to their next phone, the VIVO 5. There was supposed to be an MM upgrade for this device. I don't believe they ever saw it. Now they are onto the ENERGY XL and the VIVO will be forgotten. They will never release any code or info on the phones, because they can't. They don't own it or have created it. They just middle man and rebrand. Hence, there will always be little to no development for any Blu device.

This has been covered many MANY times here on XDA... Maybe you could have done some reading before purchase. I for one dont make purchases without at least reading some reviews and seeing what other people have said about the company / service / product.
One would assume a member of the XDA community would have the forethought to do the same.
Thank You for your opinion, but this isnt the venue for venting about buyers remorse, there are sites like amazon for that.
If you dont like the software on the phone, learn to code, or buy another phone, but spouting all the hate and bile about a self professed rebranding reseller is neither helpful or productive, so lets keep this forum about moving forward, not about personal regrets you project onto a company.

jim262 said:
This phone has a lot of potential, but it will never be anything more. The reason I say this is because of Blu's business model, which I was unaware of when I bought the device. They do not have an R&D department. They are just middle men. Gionee makes most of their phones and they simply rebrand them. That is why they offer zero support. They can't. The don't have anything to do with the phone other than distribution. So there will never be upgrades to software unless Gionee makes it, but that probably won't happen because they are not in software development business. They primarily only make the phones, so support is not a major concern for them as well. Blu just constantly buys phones and throws them out there. There was this phone, which was quickly forgotten as they transitioned to their next phone, the VIVO 5. There was supposed to be an MM upgrade for this device. I don't believe they ever saw it. Now they are onto the ENERGY XL and the VIVO will be forgotten. They will never release any code or info on the phones, because they can't. They don't own it or have created it. They just middle man and rebrand. Hence, there will always be little to no development for any Blu device.
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thanks for the comments .. puts a lot of things in perspective about the phone .. perhaps it's time to look elsewhere for my next one ..

tbirdguy said:
This has been covered many MANY times here on XDA... Maybe you could have done some reading before purchase. I for one dont make purchases without at least reading some reviews and seeing what other people have said about the company / service / product.
One would assume a member of the XDA community would have the forethought to do the same.
Thank You for your opinion, but this isnt the venue for venting about buyers remorse, there are sites like amazon for that.
If you dont like the software on the phone, learn to code, or buy another phone, but spouting all the hate and bile about a self professed rebranding reseller is neither helpful or productive, so lets keep this forum about moving forward, not about personal regrets you project onto a company.
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No this may not be a site for buyers remorse, but it is a site about facts and the fact is BLU does not own anything and therefore can not produce updates, release code, stock roms, or anything else beneficial to development. Is that better? BTW, I did research this phone and the vast majority of reviews were positive.

And once again if you had done even a TINY bit of research about the brand, you would have known this... they do not try to hide this information... so once again I am TRULY SORRY you bought something you dont like, and I am VERY GLAD you have learned from the experience and have grown from it...
Learn to code and help out instead of complaining...
As far as positive reviews, I love the phone, using different launcher and exposed its good phone... dont know what your beef is with the company or the phone... they could have locked the boot loader or encrypted it to the point we cant even root it, but none of that has happened... so quit being a "negative Nancy" and look at the brightside

tbirdguy said:
And once again if you had done even a TINY bit of research about the brand, you would have known this... they do not try to hide this information... so once again I am TRULY SORRY you bought something you dont like, and I am VERY GLAD you have learned from the experience and have grown from it...
Learn to code and help out instead of complaining...
As far as positive reviews, I love the phone, using different launcher and exposed its good phone... dont know what your beef is with the company or the phone... they could have locked the boot loader or encrypted it to the point we cant even root it, but none of that has happened... so quit being a "negative Nancy" and look at the brightside
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I can't code this phone and apparently not many can. There is no source code to work with that has been released and I don't have the time to reverse engineer this device. This site is about sharing information and if I can help some to not make the same mistake I did, then I have succeeded. So please don't shoot the messenger, BLU is who your issue should be with.

to shoot the messenger of this ancient news i'd need a musket... and also you wouldnt be one being shot, as this isnt even "news" its "olds"
There are A LOT of people that CAN code for this phone, we just only have 2 or 3 that are busy as hell, so we dont make much progress... once again if you want it served up on silver platter, learn to code, or put up some reward money (thats how we got root btw)
but "the airing of grievances" is for festivus not for xda, so quit banging that head on the aluminum pole

Once again, it is not a grievance only a warning to help others in making a decision about this device. There I have said it for the last time.

griev·ance
ˈɡrēvəns/
noun
a real or imagined wrong or other cause for complaint or protest, especially unfair treatment.
"failure to redress genuine grievances"
synonyms: injustice, wrong, injury, ill, unfairness; More
an official statement of a complaint over something believed to be wrong or unfair.
"three pilots have filed grievances against the company"
a feeling of resentment over something believed to be wrong or unfair.
"he was nursing a grievance"
"The reason I say this is because of Blu's business model, which I was unaware of when I bought the device."
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REED MOAR...
Feed your head...
your major point seems to be "I bought a really well reviewed phone"
I did research this phone and the vast majority of reviews were positive.
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And are upset no custom roms or updates available...
http://bluproducts.com/android-software-updates
kit kat is latest updates the advertise, you have lollipop but still arent happy, to the point you had to come on a community site who actually read, and like the phones they purchased...just to bad mouth and spout negativity toward a phone that most people who purchased are very happy with (hence the plethora of positive reviews you mentioned.)
this isnt a place to vent your personal experiences about a uninformed purchase you made (nor is it a place for me to decide ANYTHING, i AM NOT a MOD) but my suggestion is to do more research next time, maybe see if there are roms available for a phone BEFORE you purchase it, and research the companies record for updated BEFORE you purchase... being angry after the fact for making a poor decision not only is "crying over spilled milk" but also unbecoming and unhelpful...
BLU is a company with a reputation for selling CHEAP, REBRANDED, CHINESE phones from GIONEE... this is all COMMON KNOWLEDGE and very easily found out with very little effort... (one would even say less effort than the tirade post you started this whole debacle with, certainly less keystrokes)
SO by all means maybe do some more research (I tried to help with the definition of grievance for you, since you obviously you chose to ignore it, or do not know it)
also your "warning" is akin to standing outside McDonalds (or fast food grease hut of your choosing) and warning people entering they "served you a cheeseburger, when you wanted a cheeseburger with onions, but didnt look or ask if a cheeseburger comes with onions, AND THEY ALSO SERVE CHEAP FATTENING FOODS HIGH IN SODIUM"
the basic point being you cant flash a rom to a device, so now you have sour grapes and have to spit whatever tripe you can to "warn" people on a place, that IN THE TITLE OF THE WEBSITE states "Developers," im sure we need it... thanks for all the help!

XDA isn't a place for venting because you didn't research before buying.
Thread closed.

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