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Droid X actually self-destructs if you try to mod it

Well, I might have recommended a Droid X for big-phone-lovin’ fandroids out there… but now that I’ve read about Motorola’s insane eFuse tampering-countermeasure system, I’m going to have to give this one a big fat DON’T BUY on principle. I won’t restate all my reasons for supporting the modding, hacking, jailbreaking, and so on of your legally-owned products here — if you’re interested in a user’s manifesto, read this — but suffice it to say that deliberately bricking a phone if the user fiddles with it does not fall under the “reasonable” category of precautions taken by manufacturers.
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Read more
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Not trying to stop the hate train here but read this:
(This was the response they gave to Engadget.)
"Motorola's primary focus is the security of our end users and protection of their data, while also meeting carrier, partner and legal requirements. The Droid X and a majority of Android consumer devices on the market today have a secured bootloader. In reference specifically to eFuse, the technology is not loaded with the purpose of preventing a consumer device from functioning, but rather ensuring for the user that the device only runs on updated and tested versions of software. If a device attempts to boot with unapproved software, it will go into recovery mode, and can re-boot once approved software is re-installed. Checking for a valid software configuration is a common practice within the industry to protect the user against potential malicious software threats. Motorola has been a long time advocate of open platforms and provides a number of resources to developers to foster the ecosystem including tools and access to devices via MOTODEV "
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It will still be hard to crack, but the phone will not be rendered useless by those evil people at Motorola

I think a much better question is: SHOULD it be cracked? Should our community spend money on a phone specifically designed to screw with us? By Motorola's own words, they suggest going with another manufacturer if you want to do modding, flashing, etc. So now I should spend my money and time engaging in the very fight we laugh at iPhone users over?
No. I love my MotoDroid, but given the B.S. coming out of Motorola's camp, my original Droid will be my last Motorola phone.
Screw you Moto, fall back into the irrelevance that *WE* saved you from.

And they say its to stop users running the wrong code? So? Surley any that are sent back should be diagnosable to Motorola that they have been hit with unofficial code and just sent back to the user as "broken by user".
I don't understand the argument they give .....

I also am going to be boycotting Motorola for this flagrant act of defiance towards its customer base. This does not just fall on Motorolas shoulders. We all know this has a hidden stench of Verizon behind it. No, we can not prove it. But old dogs play old tricks. So, to any company that thinks they can control its consumer base with this crap you will not win this.
This is the kind of stuff that the government likes to see. It gives them a study point on how many people will actually lie down and die on such a small matter. Because, if you can't fight aginst the small stuff. Then the government will know that it will most likely get away with the bigger things. This may seem like a streach to some. But if you look at the correlation between government and business entities. That also government also is. They try to play the same tricks. Fact of the matter is. The government works for us. We vote for them and then pay them to do that job and we let them know we want something and if they do not deliver we vote them out. Well, corporations are a little like this. We vote with our wallets and the forums. And this whole thing that the Droid X sold out the first day. Well that is actually speculation. They may have sold out of the 45 phones sent to each Verizon store. Yet some still have them. This is nothing more than a ploy to discourage those of us who fight. Again it may be me making a streach on this. And maybe not. But look at it as a moral builder to the Modding and hacking community. It was built it was programed. It all can and will be reversed. We purchase food. A restaurant has no right to tell us how to eat it. It belongs to us. Same with consumer electronics. And Open source software. Actually even with closed source software also. If we want to mode it then we may do so. We give money for it. If these company's actually made something that worked to its full potential then we would have nothing to complain about. If they want to short us then we have the right to extend the ussage of our stuff. As long as it does not harm another human being. Have at it people.
Shamma Lamma Do From My Moto DROID To You.

goldenu said:
I think a much better question is: SHOULD it be cracked? Should our community spend money on a phone specifically designed to screw with us?
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Yes it should, out of mere principle at this point.

Breakthecycle2 said:
Yes it should, out of mere principle at this point.
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You'll just encourage them. Just boycot. Job done.
lol - sorry just noticed, you own one so of course, you want it cracked heheheh

No i-moto droid for me, Oh well makes my toss up between Galaxy S and Desire all the easier.

Engadget Editorial on the "Dark Side" of Android Hacking

Was wondering what my favorite dev community thinks about this Editorial by Nilay Patel of Engadget...
Excerpt:
...But hacking can definitely go too far, and Google doesn't provide any way for you to return to the original Android experience that shipped with your device -- you're at the mercy of the manufacturer and the carrier. Some manufacturers are better than others -- HTC provides updaters for many of its phones -- but some, like Motorola and Samsung, provide nothing at all. Once I left the reservation and installed that leaked 2.2 build, I was gone for good -- no official path back to the fold exists. That's not true on other platforms: if I was running a jailbroken iPhone, I'd just restore it with iTunes, and it would be factory-fresh with known software. That's simply not the case with Android, and it's a problem -- Google can't keep implicitly condoning Android hacking and trading on the enthusiasm of its community unless it requires manufacturers to provide restore tools for every device. Sometimes you just want to go home again.
In my ideal world, consumers would be able to download official stock Android builds for their devices directly from Google, but I'm not ignorant of the carrier- and manufacturer-driven reality we live in. For better or worse, Android's only "open" until the carriers get their hands on it. But Google should insist that every Android manufacturer and carrier release images of their customized firmware for every device as well as tools for easy restoration. It's the only fair way to treat the people who are hacking the platform and giving it the amazing momentum it has, and the only fair way to continue promoting the platform as "open" when in reality the carriers and manufacturers are doing everything they can to lock it down.
Go check it out at Engadget...

He's an idiot. That is all.

Interesting article I thought, and not really any kind of negatives against Android, more against the carriers I thought - like this bit (emphasis mine):
In my ideal world, consumers would be able to download official stock Android builds for their devices directly from Google, but I'm not ignorant of the carrier- and manufacturer-driven reality we live in. For better or worse, Android's only "open" until the carriers get their hands on it. But Google should insist that every Android manufacturer and carrier release images of their customized firmware for every device as well as tools for easy restoration. It's the only fair way to treat the people who are hacking the platform and giving it the amazing momentum it has, and the only fair way to continue promoting the platform as "open" when in reality the carriers and manufacturers are doing everything they can to lock it down.
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Link for those interested:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/23/editorial-the-dark-side-of-android-hacking/

I will agree it is interesting, I won't agree that his "Editorial" isn't anything negative against Android. He is directly attacking Google and inferring that Google should be held responsible for backups to stock is a phone is bricked amongst other little nuances...
I have been reading Engadget for years, and if there's one thing I am sure of, Nilay Patel is a gigantic Apple/iPhone proponent and it looks to me sometimes he is forced to write articles about Android. He took the picture of that DROID X being operated on with his iPhone 4 FFS... If it quacks like a duck. Topolsky needs to do some better delegating.

Sounds like someone screwed up their phone and isn't happy about it. I doubt they have that many custom roms for phones in India anyways.

PTown599 said:
Sounds like someone screwed up their phone and isn't happy about it. I doubt they have that many custom roms for phones in India anyways.
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I am not sure if that was a joke or not (haha if so).
If not, Nilay is not in India, he is in Chicago and works for Engadget which is an AOL owned Gadget Blog...
Either way, haha!

He bricked a review unit and then goes onto crib about it.lol

Here is what i want to post there but can't as am in office and not able to login to post a comment.
Dude you bricked a review unit and then you are cribbing about it. what a joke. people have bricked there only unit and got away with it like you did, this is the support of the devs out there.
Also, the title should be "Motorola not supporting devs" , and if you read the forums you can actually go back to the original factory shipped firmware on most of the android phones.
All the devs also publish a warning that you may brick your phone, I have bricked mine a lot of times and got it back to life always.
And you saying that you do not trust your device anymore is like lmao stuff because the same devs and the same forum unbricked your phone.
Last point - Why did you want to upgarde to 2.2 when it was a leaked build and not approved by the manufacturer. I'll tell you why because it was a review unit provided to you free of cost
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JustinDroid said:
I am not sure if that was a joke or not (haha if so).
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Yes, only joking.

I was reading that article and was almost getting mad that he would write something so awful and illogical. He mentions that the droidx has a battery bug because it drained while flashing and he had to hotwire it. He then claims on boot his battery was 70% the entire time.
He failed to realize he was charging his battery during the hardwire. /slaps forehead.
His foolishness is astounding. His reputation just went into the toilet. He should retract this article to save whatever reputation he has left.
I like android more than ios, but i would never expect apple or google to provide a safety net for those trying to bypass the security manufacturers place on a device.
However, I do wish all devices were open and allowed the end user to do whatever they please.

Idiot, yes; idiotic idea...? Not so much... Let's just take this for what it is, an excellent reminder to make an initial post-root nandroid backup and guard it like the Crown Jewels of England lol. For those that didn't hear the agtn show, he's as ignorant on the phone as he is in print and I think it's safe to say he won't be writing anymore editorials for a little while lol. Back to his point though, I think it would be awesome if the carriers and manufacturers showed some love and would post the most current and up to date handset/carrier-specific flashable recovery tool. Google shouldn't be held accountable, that's like saying gas companies are responsible for fuel economy and performance. It's not the fuel's fault, its the car... Same here, Google gives our beloved devices the fuel they need to run, its the manufacturers and carriers that add their own blend of herbs & spices to the mix, making for totally unique end user experiences. Just my opinion though
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

I usually refrain from commenting on such articles as they're there to solicit and incite a response so many times intentionally cooked with stupidities and false exaggerations. The article was sensationalist. But I was honestly about to just post this link and mention the guy should either step outside into the real world for a few moments to achieve some balanced realistic perspective or just quit writing such if he can't control his urges to make an official article out of every useless and flawed thought that crosses his brain. He is twisting the best features into the worst. Dark side?
The article is riddled with extremely petty pedantics of few individuas being exploded into a major Android issue. Every individual does this at their own expense and is repeatedly told so and how to get back exactly to what we started with. This is Step 1 knowledge on here. What's so difficult for him to understand? It looks to me like absolutely nothing but a typical cheap shot at Androids revolutionary and unmatched development, flexibility and customizability, and one that is clearly false. The whole reason Android is shooting for the stars is due to consistent development finding solutions for each users problems and niggles.
That's called FUD, and it's trying to detract lay users from Android and its tweaking.
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- Sent via my HTC Desire -

I don't even own an Android phone yet, but my first thought upon reading that was, "why didn't this idiot do a NANDroid backup?"

check out the author Nilay Patel at androidguys podcast.
the link
http://blogtalk.vo.llnwd.net/o23/shows/show_1223038.mp3
listen from 32 mins onwards...

If ANYONE isn't responsible enough or capable of simply backing up their device then they are in no position to install leaked ROMs, etc. Much less to complain when something goes wrong!

I feel allot of engadgets articles are like this! I really can not stand the site at all.
Its constantly apple this, apple that. As if no other phone exists!

daverobson08 said:
If ANYONE isn't responsible enough or capable of simply backing up their device then they are in no position to install leaked ROMs, etc. Much less to complain when something goes wrong!
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Well said. If your going to be using leaked ROMs always back up first! Simples.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

munchy_cool said:
check out the author Nilay Patel at androidguys podcast.
the link
http://blogtalk.vo.llnwd.net/o23/shows/show_1223038.mp3
listen from 32 mins onwards...
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Someone else said, before the server crash ate their reply, that this "podcast" sounds like a bunch of immature kids being stupid and talking over each other randomly without a coherent thought at all. I have to say I agree.

Thanks XDA for all your help.

Linky to story
Wow, so we help HTC get to the place they are today (and don't underestimate our contribution) and this is the thanks.
Glad I'm getting a Dell in 2 months.
(Please tell me I misunderstand!)
MOD EDIT: PLEASE MIND THE LANGUAGE YOU USE ON XDA. YOUR TITLE WAS NOT SUITABLE AT ALL. EDITED. PLEASE CONSIDER THIS A WARNING, BREAKING THE RULES AGAIN CAN LEAD TO A VACATION.PLEASE CONTROL YOUR EMOTIONS.

for some reason i feel the opposite towards this.
I am glad that they put a hardware chip that can bring the phone back to factory default settings. They probably did this because so many people had bricked their phones with no real way to get them back up and running so they had to send them in.... This way it should eliminate that whole process....
why this is good?
It will be cracked, and will give modders room to store custom roms or clockwork recovery on this... or.....
A MOD CHIP!!!! imagine a small mod chip that could enable or disable the chip. You muck up your phone, hit the switch... go back to factory defaults.

Reminds me of the old Playstations where I had to go get them chipped to be modded.

First off it was a pretty good read. Personally I would take this as yet another reason to keep up the awesome work done by the fine programmers here on XDA! Give them something else to "access & modify".
All in all, I never got the feeling of "eff off". But then again, that was just me.

What a whiner. Every day I'm more and more disgusted by some of the people on here. What have you personally done to help HTC aside from maybe buy a phone of theirs? What have they done for you? Oh, they gave you a miracle of modern technology. The ability to have a phone in your pocket which is amazing by itself, forget the fact that it can look up maps, browse the internet, play music and videos, etc.
What about people who don't even have phones?
You're sitting here complaining because of issues rooting a phone which YOU DONT EVEN OWN or intend to buy judging from your comments.
Let me also ask you this: Is the ability to root a phone a feature that is advertised or standard on any devices? Are phone manufactures supposed to be supporting this?

deathsled said:
What a whiner. Every day I'm more and more disgusted by some of the people on here. What have you personally done to help HTC aside from maybe buy a phone of theirs? What have they done for you? Oh, they gave you a miracle of modern technology. The ability to have a phone in your pocket which is amazing by itself, forget the fact that it can look up maps, browse the internet, play music and videos, etc.
What about people who don't even have phones?
You're sitting here complaining because of issues rooting a phone which YOU DONT EVEN OWN or intend to buy judging from your comments.
Let me also ask you this: Is the ability to root a phone a feature that is advertised or standard on any devices? Are phone manufactures supposed to be supporting this?
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wow, you have some issues going on there don't you (Apart from not being able to read)
Pretty much anyone thats posted on here has helped in one way or another, by answering peoples technical queries etc.
Your right, I don't own the phone and I certainly intend NOT to buy one now. I was going to be tempted as I prefer open phones rather than locked down ... but not now. If I'm going to be locked down I may as well get a good one. If your on these boards then you must know that HTC "stock" roms are usualy rubbish. Buy this at your peril.
No it's not an advertised feature but HTC have unofficialy endorsed this site, so they want there cake and eat it?
and what an irrelevant thing to say:
"What about people who don't even have phones?"
Tell ya what, i'll raise ya, what about all the starving people in Africa!
p.s. i've not commited to the Lightning but its certainly the front runner.... unless something else comes out.

deathsled said:
What a whiner. Every day I'm more and more disgusted by some of the people on here. What have you personally done to help HTC aside from maybe buy a phone of theirs? What have they done for you? Oh, they gave you a miracle of modern technology. The ability to have a phone in your pocket which is amazing by itself, forget the fact that it can look up maps, browse the internet, play music and videos, etc.
What about people who don't even have phones?
You're sitting here complaining because of issues rooting a phone which YOU DONT EVEN OWN or intend to buy judging from your comments.
Let me also ask you this: Is the ability to root a phone a feature that is advertised or standard on any devices? Are phone manufactures supposed to be supporting this?
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Would you be happy if you bought a car and told you you went allowed to mod it or accessorise it? What someone does with their own device is none of anyone elses business INCLUDING the manufacturer and provider. If I buy a sponge cake I should be able to add whatever decorations and icing I want, If I buy a PC I should be able to install whatever OS and programs I want. Is that so hard to understand?

hungry81 said:
Would you be happy if you bought a car and told you you went allowed to mod it or accessorise it? What someone does with their own device is none of anyone elses business INCLUDING the manufacturer and provider. If I buy a sponge cake I should be able to add whatever decorations and icing I want, If I buy a PC I should be able to install whatever OS and programs I want. Is that so hard to understand?
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hard to understand? not at all.
also, not true. you can't legally install apple OS on non-apple hardware. you can't legally alter an iphone. you can't legally mod your car with NOS or any number of other things.
there are still laws, and company policy to take into consideration. your argument is furthered by the fact that android is open source - but what that REALLY means is that Android can be thrown on any manufacturers phone with no limitations - NOT that any phone that has android HAS no limitations.
I WISH the world allowed us to do whatever we wanted without ourselves and our possessions, but that is simply not the case.

digibucc said:
hard to understand? not at all.
also, not true. you can't legally install apple OS on non-apple hardware. you can't legally alter an iphone. you can't legally mod your car with NOS or any number of other things.
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Actually you can. You may not be allowed to take it on public roads, but you can do whatever you want with your car on private property as long as it dosent cause injury or damage to others property or other mischief.
digibucc said:
there are still laws, and company policy to take into consideration. your argument is furthered by the fact that android is open source - but what that REALLY means is that Android can be thrown on any manufacturers phone with no limitations - NOT that any phone that has android HAS no limitations.
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And why should people sit back silently if they dont agree with this? Why should they be able to advertise the good features of the device without anyone mentioning the significant drawbacks?
digibucc said:
I WISH the world allowed us to do whatever we wanted without ourselves and our possessions, but that is simply not the case.
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At the moment You CAN do whatever you want with YOUR posessions as long as it does not cause harm or injury to other persons or property. There is no excuse for treating these devices differently. If you feel that flashing is illegal, I would have to ask what you are doing on XDA?

hungry81 said:
Would you be happy if you bought a car and told you you went allowed to mod it or accessorise it?
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Maybe if I was actually going to buy the car. What if instead I just chose to ***** about a car that I had no plans on buying?

deathsled said:
Maybe if I was actually going to buy the car. What if instead I just chose to ***** about a car that I had no plans on buying?
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OK -
so first, where did I say I was never interested in this phone? If you care to take a look at my posting history you will see I'm desperate for a phone with a keyboard. (ROM issue aside) I did take a look at this phone but the screen is just a little too small for me and I just don't personaly like Android. If this is your ONLY argument, then you know you really have no argument - move along please, nothing to see here.
Second, you seem to be missing the grand picture. You see all those subforums for each phone right? Pay particular attention to the "ROMs" subforums for EACH phone.... delete them. IF I understand this correctly, none of the new phones (assuming they all employ this) will have cooked ROMs. Why do you think most of us are here? Thats right, because HTC ROMs out of the box are crap... cooked ROMs have certainly saved my use of HTC phones and to be honest, are one of the priamary reasons I would buy a HTC phone (and have!).
Third, if you had any idea what I was talking about you would know that this is not so much about the "phone" itself but the very fact that cooked ROMs will no longer be possible. If it was about the phone, I would have posted it in the G2 section.
So in summary, (and this might be hard for you) please, try to focus on the new "feature" of the phone rather than the phone itself. Also, try to stop assuming facts like I was never going to buy this phone and really, if this is the best discussion point you can bring, please use the "unsubscribe" option - do us all a favour.

Monty Burns said:
wow, you have some issues going on there don't you (Apart from not being able to read)
Pretty much anyone thats posted on here has helped in one way or another, by answering peoples technical queries etc.
Your right, I don't own the phone and I certainly intend NOT to buy one now. I was going to be tempted as I prefer open phones rather than locked down ... but not now. If I'm going to be locked down I may as well get a good one. If your on these boards then you must know that HTC "stock" roms are usualy rubbish. Buy this at your peril.
No it's not an advertised feature but HTC have unofficialy endorsed this site, so they want there cake and eat it?
and what an irrelevant thing to say:
"What about people who don't even have phones?"
Tell ya what, i'll raise ya, what about all the starving people in Africa!
p.s. i've not commited to the Lightning but its certainly the front runner.... unless something else comes out.
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Death, I'll take your lack of acknowlegdment or response to this post as an appology.
No problem, its OK.

hungry81 said:
If you feel that flashing is illegal, I would have to ask what you are doing on XDA?
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Would you, have to?
I don't "feel" it is illegal. I don't believe it is wrong - but they have the legal right to tell me it is. that doesn't mean i won't do it anyway - I just don't lie to myself and say it is allowed... even if I believe that it should be.
there's a difference between recognizing the law and following it. I'm not saying I don't agree, that it sucks that they will lock out ROMs. BUT - I've got my Evo and it will last me for years, so i really don't care.
it's called reality. I'm not arguing that your opinion is wrong - i'm highlighting that it is just your opinion, and in this world they don't mean much.
tell you what though - you go ahead and organize the rally and once you get more than 1,000 people signed up i'll join.
let me know.

Monty Burns said:
MOD EDIT: PLEASE MIND THE LANGUAGE YOU USE ON XDA. YOUR TITLE WAS NOT SUITABLE AT ALL. EDITED. PLEASE CONSIDER THIS A WARNING, BREAKING THE RULES AGAIN CAN LEAD TO A VACATION.PLEASE CONTROL YOUR EMOTIONS.
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Hi Mr Anon,
I must have missed the bit where I swore....? I remember putting a few **'s in... oh wait, I wasn't swearing there, just pointing out that I used **'s.... er.... um.... oh dear. They are used much like Beeps on tv....
Whatever, its only a forum, gues must be the end of the world to lose access for "beeps"

Just Realizing... OEMs are Taking Advantage of us!

Alright, so after reading a couple articles on a bunch of sites. I can sort of understand a vicious cycle that's going on in the mobile development world.
First off, let me begin, Mobile OEMs (as we all know) don't release updates very often. And as a general rule, when they do... it's usually a couple months late. Just look at HTC devices, most of the (somewhat) older devices (depending on what you're definition of older is) aren't getting the updates to ICS for while http://goo.gl/FjcMJ . And in some cases they just decide not to update them at all. (see the Desire HD and possibly the Thunderbolt http://goo.gl/BwZld )
Initially when Android started, this was a little different. And allow me to clarify by going far far back, to the first Android device. The HTC Dream.
It initially came out with Android 1.0 (Astro) it eventually got updated all the way to the software version 1.5 (Cupcake). If you look back then, that's two software updates! Astro to Bender to Cupcake.
Now let's look at just about any other Android device (not made my Samsung, for the most part they're a bad example... (of course then again, they have the head of Cyanogenmod Steve Kondik on their team).
We're going to look at Motorola, because despite the fact that it's owned by Google, not all of their devices have received updates. And the device I've chosen from them is the defy. Now if you look over at the development section of the forums you'll see that we have a working (and apparently a very smooth) port of Jelly Bean for the Defy. http://goo.gl/mE1Qy
But if you decide to see what Motorola's deciding to do to update it from Gingerbread, well... their development section is devoid of everything for the Defy... http://goo.gl/g8XN0
Now why does that matter to us happy go lucky developers and modders? Well let's look over this little scenario I've played out in my head more than once.
CEO#1 "Oh they want Jelly Bean?"
CEO#2 "Yeah they do..."
CEO#1 "So what are we going to do about it?"
CEO#2 *checks XDA* "Nothing, the ones who really care about it have a working ROM up already."
CEO#1 "Okay, sounds good to me. So are you ready to go make some more phones with high specs and outdated software?"
CEO#2 "Well if we start now, we should be able to get six new devices running ICS 4.0.3 out by mid December!"
CEO#1 "Ohh, not even having the latest version of ICS is really going to get them. Brilliant!"
This is a vicious cycle that just keeps going around, and around, and around. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a way to stop it. While we need Superuser and rooting privileges, we also need updates to the latest version of Android OS to keep us going.
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates. The problem is that with their history of sending out updates we really can't stop working. And even when they do send out updates, sometimes they aren't even fully stable! (see Evo 3D http://goo.gl/VzCNM )
So the question is, how are we going to stop this?

Buy devices from the companies that keep things up to date. The Nexus gets direct pushes from Google so you know you're good there. Sony has a dedicated line to developers through their forums and even offers devices for temporary dev use and has reasonably priced unsubsidised phones.
Put your dollars in the right places if you want to make change happen. Those who want full access still aren't a large enough part of the market to shape everything. That said, people pushing for control have made sure that iDevices can be jailbroken and HTC is staggering hard because of mis-steps in marketing that have been worsened by lackluster updates and their decision to shun the dev community that was bolstering them.

They can't look at xda or whatever Android forum because there is a larger population of users who have no idea what rooting is, let alone custom ROMs. Those people depend on updates and if they won't get an official update, they won't get one at all.
Sent from my MB508 using xda premium

If you ask 10 Android users what version of Android they are on, 8 of them will have no clue, 1 will know because the sales rep used it as a selling point, and one of them will be running Jellybean (thanks to XDA!).
Consumer demand is not high enough to demand the cost of testing new software on dated phones. Sad but true.

thebeastglasser said:
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates.
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If they really saw us as free labor, they would release a phone with cyanogenmod or something and just kang whatever works for their next update. (Actually, this would be a very good idea.)
However, in actuality, they just don't care about the devs. Too busy trying to differentiate their products with custom skins and cause more work for everyone.

It is true that most people don't know much more than that they are are android or "droid", just like many people don't know much more than they have an Iphone. The vocal majority of phone users (online) however have quite a bit more knowledge which means they get much more feedback from the minority.
One of the main reasons (other than price) that I got a Nexus 7 was due to the fact that Google pushes updates immediately to their nexus devices. I see this as an additional "perk".

You can't buy a device Android or other from an OEM or carrier and expect to get the latest greatest updates a or mods any too quickly. Forums and sites like xda bring in developers and users who ate eager to offer mods and help that you will never find coming from the mainstream as quickly or with the same quality. I get the device I want and look to here to make it better quicker.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

But what I see is that there are a bunch of phones that could easily be running better software (like the Defy) but OEMs clearly see that anybody who seems to care enough about updates are doing it themselves. The problem is, there are relatives of mine who refuse to root and yet they know enough about phones to know what version they're running and know the difference between the two versions. The one they currently have, and the one they could have.
I feel like this is kind of unfair to the sed-mentioned people and on top of that, it makes uneducated users buy more phones, while it keeps people like us are at work.
I'd bet that it was a pain in the a** porting ICS to the Desire HD no thanks to HTC, and yet this is just one less job for HTC and a hell of a lot more work for us... That's just me.
And also, that idea for a "pre-kanged" phone or one running a version of Cyanogenmod is pretty good. It'd be a great idea...

Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb not only because of devs, but because people who just end up with them will like seeing timely updates and devices that continue to get better and better. If you want to help the rise of affordable, quality devices then steer others toward them when you can and buy them yourself when it's time for something new.

Also, people on xda do not see development as a "work", they see it as a hobby...
So even if all the phones were on the latest android, the dev community here at Xda would still be hard at "work" to come up with something better...something which the OEM's and Google couldn't think of implementing even with such large resources at their disposal...
And let's face it, apart from games, the general public in large doesn't have "need" for BETTER phones...
I've seen the likes of HTC One X and Galaxy S3 go in the hands of people for whom multitasking would mean chatting on whatsapp while waiting for the fb app to load...
So the question would arise, if the public doesn't "need" better phones, how do we sell it to them?
The answer becomes clear, stop giving them updates...make them feel that their device is outdated...that they "need" a NEW and BETTER phone...
The ones who understand the capability of their phone would have the ability, or more importantly, the will to make the updates happen...
For the rest, well there's fancy advertising...
Hope this clears up...
- Via xda premium

Yeah, I suppose it makes sense. Thanks guys!

How many people are there using Android? About 60% of the market, which means hundred milion users How many members do we have here on XDA? Less than hundred thousands! It means that regular users dont know and dont care what OS they use or even dont know what the update is. Froyo, GB, ICS, JB sound like alien languages for most of regular users. For those who know wat they are using, they are already XDA members, the rest just doesnt care or they just simply buy an iCrapple. Therefore, there is no way you can stop that. Customers are always taken granted by companies.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda app-developers app

Extreemly well put. We all knew it but didn't say anything. I am awaiting the next nexus for this very reason. Props to thebeastglasser

MissionImprobable said:
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb
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The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.

For the record there are over four million members on XDA...

thebeastglasser said:
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
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Click to collapse
Not currently active users though. Remember XDA used to make you register to download files so that jacked up the member rate.

thebobp said:
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Google is marketing a clean, recognizable line in their Nexus devices, advertising intelligently, and making sure that they continue to stay on the latest firmware. Supporting them and other companies who do so will dictate what model corporations follow. Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Grassroots movements have done everything from keeping the iPhone legal to jailbreak to getting a man his goodies when a WP store tried to pull a fast one in regards to him winning the WP challenge to getting VZ to clarify that they wouldn't be doing anything to their Unlimited users. We may not be the majority, but we are far more organized and informed than the masses and as such what we do gets noticed and picked up on by tech, blog, and news coverage. The only ones who don't make change happen are the naysayers who sit by and do nothing. Support the brands that support the customers and devs.

MissionImprobable said:
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
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Click to collapse
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
MissionImprobable said:
Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not really convinced that Motorola's and HTC's losses were due to locked bootloaders, or even lack of firmware updates. Rather, I think it's due to brand inertia: at some point, Samsung came up with a phone (the Galaxy S2) that was so far ahead of anything else on the market at the time, that they just grabbed market share and brand loyalty from many of the consumers on the market. This has little to do with the Galaxy Nexus, and indeed their "next big thing" has been the horribly backward (from a stock perspective) S3 and the Note.

It's been my perception that there is a strong correlation between developer support and whatever device I want to get next.
When I got my very first phone, it was the Samsung Captivate.
It had (Still has) great dev support. I decided not to wait a month to get the Moto Atrix because, there was no predicting what kind of dev support it would have despite having great specs. I find that (generally speaking) Samsung phones have had strong dev support.
I sort of hate to point this out.. But, if you think the "average consumer" cares about upgrades.. I would be inclined to disagree. A lot of people do care about upgrades.. Myself, my girlfriend, a lot of people who frequent forums in general.
Still, your average consumer is probably more concerned with the screen size than the software it's packing. Even if ICS is "nicer" and "more elegant" there are a lot of people who really don't know or even care what OS their phone is running. As long as they can text and check facebook, they aren't going to be bothered with the small details of "Jellybean" or "ICS"
I have to be completely honest when I admit, if I were a manufacturer.. I don't honestly know how inclined I would be to release OS updates. Not because I want to be an evil corporation and force you to upgrade to get the newest OS.. But, because putting it plain and simply.. It takes time, energy, and money to release an update. If *ANYTHING* goes wrong with the update and even a single person doesn't follow the instructions.. It becomes really hard to prove they are the one at fault. So you spend your time and energy making an update, potentially having more cost incurred due to possibly damaged hardware, and then finally.. wondering how many people really cared in the first place. A lot of people don't care and even won't upgrade their phone because, they perceive it as "a pointless endeavor."

thebobp said:
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
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Click to collapse
What does this have to do with supporting companies that support us? Voting with your dollars is a metaphor; it doesn't mean that there is an election for phones.

The First XDA Phone

Hello anyone reading this message.
My name is gregory. I am like most of you pretty pissed about the behavior of canonical (at least if you followed the ubuntu edge fund campaign http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge). What a lame way to make advertising. Of course, anyone with a bit of sense would smell the scam here, 32,000,000$ in a month? come on man!!! So here I am. I've been a flasholic for years and I think I came up with the idea of making my own cell phone about 3 years ago. fear, shyness and lack of funds made me drop the idea several time. But today we have the possibility to change the cell phone world together, thanx to canonical's lame way to advertise their OS. Basically here is my idea, Why not fund our own XDA phone? After all, many of us having problem or getting fed up with the slow updates of our phones are coming here to get things done. Most of us don't wait anymore for those big brands to update our devices. So why in the world are we waiting for them to build them. I've been around XDA for quite some times now and all I see here is a great mix of DEV. So correct me if i'm wrong. The dev on XDA are for most way faster and more reliable than the one at samsung, htc etc. the parts for the phones are all made in china for the most part, we all know some designers and the ubuntu edge crowfunding made it to 12,000,000 +. So here is my question to you people on XDA. Why don't we make our own phone the same way. Even 10,000,000 would be largely enough to make simply the best phone in the world. we could make a poll about each part and design in the phone, and i'm pretty sure the dev here would agree to make the device better. Not only because they will be pay for it, but because they love it. I am no business man, neither a develloper. I don't know code or anything in that matter. Now let me tell you my vision (and no i didn't take LSD for it)
imagines a phone with the latest specs like the edge. 128gb drive storage, 4gb ram, sapphire glass etc etc, it would be nice, but now imagine the same device with the XDA community back up, updates and corrections every 1 or 2 months, pushed straight to your phone without need of external program (kies, itunes or else... why is it call mobile phone if you need to have a computer to update it?), a minimum of 3 years updates, and of course, the ability to solve your problem here without having to talk with lame company commercials who would send your phone to korea just because they don't know anything about the product they sell. won't it be a dream? - more ideas are very welcome and that's why WE should do our own phone.
As I said, i'm not into the cell phone business, although I know some things about business in china, i'm no designer or dev, but i'm sure we could put up a pretty team from people here and make it happen. And when it's done, start a crowfunding. I know it would work because the name XDA alone stand for quality and improvement in our mobile world today. I have in mind that anyone willing to do that would succeed and I can't protect this kind of idea since i'm not the one who invent cell phone. but I also think the great thing with the xda community is that there is no lame boss or greedy stock sharers to decide what people should do or not. I'm hard working and if people think we should make it then i'm willing to work my ass, even travel (i'm from Paris, france not texas ) overseas to make this happen. here is the team i think we should put together to see this device built:
- people who knows the chinese technology market (where to buy and select company)
- DEV who knows about Android devellopment (maybe ubuntu or any other)
- designers ( let's try to make something more beautiful than the iphone )
- lawyers (I guess)
- commercials
any other ideas are welcome.
I opened this thread just to see your reactions on the subjects. it a little messy because i have so many things in my mind but feel free to argue, critisized, encourage, or just explain to us anything that comes in your mind. cheers

jimmymetis said:
Hello anyone reading this message.
My name is gregory. I am like most of you pretty pissed about the behavior of canonical (at least if you followed the ubuntu edge fund campaign http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge). What a lame way to make advertising. Of course, anyone with a bit of sense would smell the scam here, 32,000,000$ in a month? come on man!!! So here I am. I've been a flasholic for years and I think I came up with the idea of making my own cell phone about 3 years ago. fear, shyness and lack of funds made me drop the idea several time. But today we have the possibility to change the cell phone world together, thanx to canonical's lame way to advertise their OS. Basically here is my idea, Why not fund our own XDA phone? After all, many of us having problem or getting fed up with the slow updates of our phones are coming here to get things done. Most of us don't wait anymore for those big brands to update our devices. So why in the world are we waiting for them to build them. I've been around XDA for quite some times now and all I see here is a great mix of DEV. So correct me if i'm wrong. The dev on XDA are for most way faster and more reliable than the one at samsung, htc etc. the parts for the phones are all made in china for the most part, we all know some designers and the ubuntu edge crowfunding made it to 12,000,000 +. So here is my question to you people on XDA. Why don't we make our own phone the same way. Even 10,000,000 would be largely enough to make simply the best phone in the world. we could make a poll about each part and design in the phone, and i'm pretty sure the dev here would agree to make the device better. Not only because they will be pay for it, but because they love it. I am no business man, neither a develloper. I don't know code or anything in that matter. Now let me tell you my vision (and no i didn't take LSD for it)
imagines a phone with the latest specs like the edge. 128gb drive storage, 4gb ram, sapphire glass etc etc, it would be nice, but now imagine the same device with the XDA community back up, updates and corrections every 1 or 2 months, pushed straight to your phone without need of external program (kies, itunes or else... why is it call mobile phone if you need to have a computer to update it?), a minimum of 3 years updates, and of course, the ability to solve your problem here without having to talk with lame company commercials who would send your phone to korea just because they don't know anything about the product they sell. won't it be a dream? - more ideas are very welcome and that's why WE should do our own phone.
As I said, i'm not into the cell phone business, although I know some things about business in china, i'm no designer or dev, but i'm sure we could put up a pretty team from people here and make it happen. And when it's done, start a crowfunding. I know it would work because the name XDA alone stand for quality and improvement in our mobile world today. I have in mind that anyone willing to do that would succeed and I can't protect this kind of idea since i'm not the one who invent cell phone. but I also think the great thing with the xda community is that there is no lame boss or greedy stock sharers to decide what people should do or not. I'm hard working and if people think we should make it then i'm willing to work my ass, even travel (i'm from Paris, france not texas ) overseas to make this happen. here is the team i think we should put together to see this device built:
- people who knows the chinese technology market (where to buy and select company)
- DEV who knows about Android devellopment (maybe ubuntu or any other)
- designers ( let's try to make something more beautiful than the iphone )
- lawyers (I guess)
- commercials
any other ideas are welcome.
I opened this thread just to see your reactions on the subjects. it a little messy because i have so many things in my mind but feel free to argue, critisized, encourage, or just explain to us anything that comes in your mind. cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A search would have shown you this has already been talked about and "If" it ever did happen it would not be with any parts from China at all. The parts would have to be of the highest quality. But as I said this has already been talked about before.

zelendel said:
A search would have shown you this has already been talked about and "If" it ever did happen it would not be with any parts from China at all. The parts would have to be of the highest quality. But as I said this has already been talked about before.
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Click to collapse
i tried to find anything about this but didn't, could you tell me which thread talk about that?

zelendel said:
A search would have shown you this has already been talked about and "If" it ever did happen it would not be with any parts from China at all. The parts would have to be of the highest quality. But as I said this has already been talked about before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if this has been discuss already then you can close the thread. still didn't find anything on the subject, maybe i'm not using the good key words to find it. anyway thanx