Engadget Editorial on the "Dark Side" of Android Hacking

Engadget Editorial on the "Dark Side" of Android Hacking - General Topics

Was wondering what my favorite dev community thinks about this Editorial by Nilay Patel of Engadget...
Excerpt:
...But hacking can definitely go too far, and Google doesn't provide any way for you to return to the original Android experience that shipped with your device -- you're at the mercy of the manufacturer and the carrier. Some manufacturers are better than others -- HTC provides updaters for many of its phones -- but some, like Motorola and Samsung, provide nothing at all. Once I left the reservation and installed that leaked 2.2 build, I was gone for good -- no official path back to the fold exists. That's not true on other platforms: if I was running a jailbroken iPhone, I'd just restore it with iTunes, and it would be factory-fresh with known software. That's simply not the case with Android, and it's a problem -- Google can't keep implicitly condoning Android hacking and trading on the enthusiasm of its community unless it requires manufacturers to provide restore tools for every device. Sometimes you just want to go home again.
In my ideal world, consumers would be able to download official stock Android builds for their devices directly from Google, but I'm not ignorant of the carrier- and manufacturer-driven reality we live in. For better or worse, Android's only "open" until the carriers get their hands on it. But Google should insist that every Android manufacturer and carrier release images of their customized firmware for every device as well as tools for easy restoration. It's the only fair way to treat the people who are hacking the platform and giving it the amazing momentum it has, and the only fair way to continue promoting the platform as "open" when in reality the carriers and manufacturers are doing everything they can to lock it down.
Go check it out at Engadget...

He's an idiot. That is all.

Interesting article I thought, and not really any kind of negatives against Android, more against the carriers I thought - like this bit (emphasis mine):
In my ideal world, consumers would be able to download official stock Android builds for their devices directly from Google, but I'm not ignorant of the carrier- and manufacturer-driven reality we live in. For better or worse, Android's only "open" until the carriers get their hands on it. But Google should insist that every Android manufacturer and carrier release images of their customized firmware for every device as well as tools for easy restoration. It's the only fair way to treat the people who are hacking the platform and giving it the amazing momentum it has, and the only fair way to continue promoting the platform as "open" when in reality the carriers and manufacturers are doing everything they can to lock it down.
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Link for those interested:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/23/editorial-the-dark-side-of-android-hacking/

I will agree it is interesting, I won't agree that his "Editorial" isn't anything negative against Android. He is directly attacking Google and inferring that Google should be held responsible for backups to stock is a phone is bricked amongst other little nuances...
I have been reading Engadget for years, and if there's one thing I am sure of, Nilay Patel is a gigantic Apple/iPhone proponent and it looks to me sometimes he is forced to write articles about Android. He took the picture of that DROID X being operated on with his iPhone 4 FFS... If it quacks like a duck. Topolsky needs to do some better delegating.

Sounds like someone screwed up their phone and isn't happy about it. I doubt they have that many custom roms for phones in India anyways.

PTown599 said:
Sounds like someone screwed up their phone and isn't happy about it. I doubt they have that many custom roms for phones in India anyways.
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I am not sure if that was a joke or not (haha if so).
If not, Nilay is not in India, he is in Chicago and works for Engadget which is an AOL owned Gadget Blog...
Either way, haha!

He bricked a review unit and then goes onto crib about it.lol

Here is what i want to post there but can't as am in office and not able to login to post a comment.
Dude you bricked a review unit and then you are cribbing about it. what a joke. people have bricked there only unit and got away with it like you did, this is the support of the devs out there.
Also, the title should be "Motorola not supporting devs" , and if you read the forums you can actually go back to the original factory shipped firmware on most of the android phones.
All the devs also publish a warning that you may brick your phone, I have bricked mine a lot of times and got it back to life always.
And you saying that you do not trust your device anymore is like lmao stuff because the same devs and the same forum unbricked your phone.
Last point - Why did you want to upgarde to 2.2 when it was a leaked build and not approved by the manufacturer. I'll tell you why because it was a review unit provided to you free of cost
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JustinDroid said:
I am not sure if that was a joke or not (haha if so).
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Yes, only joking.

I was reading that article and was almost getting mad that he would write something so awful and illogical. He mentions that the droidx has a battery bug because it drained while flashing and he had to hotwire it. He then claims on boot his battery was 70% the entire time.
He failed to realize he was charging his battery during the hardwire. /slaps forehead.
His foolishness is astounding. His reputation just went into the toilet. He should retract this article to save whatever reputation he has left.
I like android more than ios, but i would never expect apple or google to provide a safety net for those trying to bypass the security manufacturers place on a device.
However, I do wish all devices were open and allowed the end user to do whatever they please.

Idiot, yes; idiotic idea...? Not so much... Let's just take this for what it is, an excellent reminder to make an initial post-root nandroid backup and guard it like the Crown Jewels of England lol. For those that didn't hear the agtn show, he's as ignorant on the phone as he is in print and I think it's safe to say he won't be writing anymore editorials for a little while lol. Back to his point though, I think it would be awesome if the carriers and manufacturers showed some love and would post the most current and up to date handset/carrier-specific flashable recovery tool. Google shouldn't be held accountable, that's like saying gas companies are responsible for fuel economy and performance. It's not the fuel's fault, its the car... Same here, Google gives our beloved devices the fuel they need to run, its the manufacturers and carriers that add their own blend of herbs & spices to the mix, making for totally unique end user experiences. Just my opinion though
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

I usually refrain from commenting on such articles as they're there to solicit and incite a response so many times intentionally cooked with stupidities and false exaggerations. The article was sensationalist. But I was honestly about to just post this link and mention the guy should either step outside into the real world for a few moments to achieve some balanced realistic perspective or just quit writing such if he can't control his urges to make an official article out of every useless and flawed thought that crosses his brain. He is twisting the best features into the worst. Dark side?
The article is riddled with extremely petty pedantics of few individuas being exploded into a major Android issue. Every individual does this at their own expense and is repeatedly told so and how to get back exactly to what we started with. This is Step 1 knowledge on here. What's so difficult for him to understand? It looks to me like absolutely nothing but a typical cheap shot at Androids revolutionary and unmatched development, flexibility and customizability, and one that is clearly false. The whole reason Android is shooting for the stars is due to consistent development finding solutions for each users problems and niggles.
That's called FUD, and it's trying to detract lay users from Android and its tweaking.
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- Sent via my HTC Desire -

I don't even own an Android phone yet, but my first thought upon reading that was, "why didn't this idiot do a NANDroid backup?"

check out the author Nilay Patel at androidguys podcast.
the link
http://blogtalk.vo.llnwd.net/o23/shows/show_1223038.mp3
listen from 32 mins onwards...

If ANYONE isn't responsible enough or capable of simply backing up their device then they are in no position to install leaked ROMs, etc. Much less to complain when something goes wrong!

I feel allot of engadgets articles are like this! I really can not stand the site at all.
Its constantly apple this, apple that. As if no other phone exists!

daverobson08 said:
If ANYONE isn't responsible enough or capable of simply backing up their device then they are in no position to install leaked ROMs, etc. Much less to complain when something goes wrong!
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Well said. If your going to be using leaked ROMs always back up first! Simples.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

munchy_cool said:
check out the author Nilay Patel at androidguys podcast.
the link
http://blogtalk.vo.llnwd.net/o23/shows/show_1223038.mp3
listen from 32 mins onwards...
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Someone else said, before the server crash ate their reply, that this "podcast" sounds like a bunch of immature kids being stupid and talking over each other randomly without a coherent thought at all. I have to say I agree.

Related

Droid X actually self-destructs if you try to mod it

Well, I might have recommended a Droid X for big-phone-lovin’ fandroids out there… but now that I’ve read about Motorola’s insane eFuse tampering-countermeasure system, I’m going to have to give this one a big fat DON’T BUY on principle. I won’t restate all my reasons for supporting the modding, hacking, jailbreaking, and so on of your legally-owned products here — if you’re interested in a user’s manifesto, read this — but suffice it to say that deliberately bricking a phone if the user fiddles with it does not fall under the “reasonable” category of precautions taken by manufacturers.
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Read more
.............

Not trying to stop the hate train here but read this:
(This was the response they gave to Engadget.)
"Motorola's primary focus is the security of our end users and protection of their data, while also meeting carrier, partner and legal requirements. The Droid X and a majority of Android consumer devices on the market today have a secured bootloader. In reference specifically to eFuse, the technology is not loaded with the purpose of preventing a consumer device from functioning, but rather ensuring for the user that the device only runs on updated and tested versions of software. If a device attempts to boot with unapproved software, it will go into recovery mode, and can re-boot once approved software is re-installed. Checking for a valid software configuration is a common practice within the industry to protect the user against potential malicious software threats. Motorola has been a long time advocate of open platforms and provides a number of resources to developers to foster the ecosystem including tools and access to devices via MOTODEV "
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It will still be hard to crack, but the phone will not be rendered useless by those evil people at Motorola

I think a much better question is: SHOULD it be cracked? Should our community spend money on a phone specifically designed to screw with us? By Motorola's own words, they suggest going with another manufacturer if you want to do modding, flashing, etc. So now I should spend my money and time engaging in the very fight we laugh at iPhone users over?
No. I love my MotoDroid, but given the B.S. coming out of Motorola's camp, my original Droid will be my last Motorola phone.
Screw you Moto, fall back into the irrelevance that *WE* saved you from.

And they say its to stop users running the wrong code? So? Surley any that are sent back should be diagnosable to Motorola that they have been hit with unofficial code and just sent back to the user as "broken by user".
I don't understand the argument they give .....

I also am going to be boycotting Motorola for this flagrant act of defiance towards its customer base. This does not just fall on Motorolas shoulders. We all know this has a hidden stench of Verizon behind it. No, we can not prove it. But old dogs play old tricks. So, to any company that thinks they can control its consumer base with this crap you will not win this.
This is the kind of stuff that the government likes to see. It gives them a study point on how many people will actually lie down and die on such a small matter. Because, if you can't fight aginst the small stuff. Then the government will know that it will most likely get away with the bigger things. This may seem like a streach to some. But if you look at the correlation between government and business entities. That also government also is. They try to play the same tricks. Fact of the matter is. The government works for us. We vote for them and then pay them to do that job and we let them know we want something and if they do not deliver we vote them out. Well, corporations are a little like this. We vote with our wallets and the forums. And this whole thing that the Droid X sold out the first day. Well that is actually speculation. They may have sold out of the 45 phones sent to each Verizon store. Yet some still have them. This is nothing more than a ploy to discourage those of us who fight. Again it may be me making a streach on this. And maybe not. But look at it as a moral builder to the Modding and hacking community. It was built it was programed. It all can and will be reversed. We purchase food. A restaurant has no right to tell us how to eat it. It belongs to us. Same with consumer electronics. And Open source software. Actually even with closed source software also. If we want to mode it then we may do so. We give money for it. If these company's actually made something that worked to its full potential then we would have nothing to complain about. If they want to short us then we have the right to extend the ussage of our stuff. As long as it does not harm another human being. Have at it people.
Shamma Lamma Do From My Moto DROID To You.

goldenu said:
I think a much better question is: SHOULD it be cracked? Should our community spend money on a phone specifically designed to screw with us?
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Yes it should, out of mere principle at this point.

Breakthecycle2 said:
Yes it should, out of mere principle at this point.
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You'll just encourage them. Just boycot. Job done.
lol - sorry just noticed, you own one so of course, you want it cracked heheheh

No i-moto droid for me, Oh well makes my toss up between Galaxy S and Desire all the easier.

Newsflash: Android Is Not Perfect

This is just a PSA to all you vicious Android fanboys on this forum that hound anyone who asks the question "what phone should I get", especially when one of those options includes an iOS device or a WP7 device.
So let me get this started. I love Android. But Android is not perfect. Take a deep breath, and say it with me again, out loud.
"Android is not perfect." Was that too hard? If so the following explanation is for you.
Ever since Android first came out, people were hailing it as the iPhone killer. But in reality? It's really not. It may be getting there, and may be getting there quickly, but that's not that point.
It may be a surprise to many of you, but there are actually other human beings outside of XDA that use smartphones. Human beings that are not interested in rooting their phones or spending a lot of time completely customizing them or pushing them to the limit. These human beings want their phones to work when they need them, and that's all. Whether these phones are iOS, Android, or Windows Mobile/7 phones is completely irrelevant to them.
Except, it actually is. But see, not in the way most of you seem to think it is.
People shop for phones nowadays because the have an end they need to reach and they need the means to get to that end. Whether it's something as simple as checking an email message or quenching a thirst to play a game, they take into consideration what is the quickest, most hassle-free way to do this. This requirement is not because they are stupid. Most XDA users seem to think that anyone off XDA just buys iPhones because they are uneducated about "the true power of Android" and all that jazz. Guess what? That's not the case.
Yes. Here at XDA, we can do a lot with our phones. We root them, we build custom ROMs for them, we use features that were locked before, or get versions of our OS that aren't out yet.
But please be damn sure you understand that we are the minority. We will always be the minority. Your experience here doesn't define the mobile landscape, it only improves your personal experience with your phone. Just because you took a few hours to root your phone, find the perfect custom ROM, and settle down with it doesn't make the average Joe who just bought an iPhone (because it does what he wants easily and has all the apps he likes) a stupid user.
Here is the meat of this newsflash; Android wouldn't be here if it wasn't for iOS. (Going further, iOS wouldn't be there without Windows Mobile, and etc etc etc until we reached the very first man who asked 'why can't I see my email from my phone'). Apple took a chance on what people wanted, and realized they had something. They built an OS that was based on the ideals of OS X; simple, straight-forward, good looking, and well received. And so began the App and Data revolution. All of a sudden, the idea of having mobile data became real. These wonderful delicious little things called "apps" made the mobile world much more exciting than it had even been before. And so Apple hit a goldmine, and the mobile landscape had been painted. These apps were well-designed, fun, informative, useful, and people liked them so much, they started to buy paid apps. Apple knows how to market to people, and there success showed.
So then. Android.
Android was birthed out of the idea that Google could cash in on this app world. You may think the intentions were noble, with the idea that it was some pipe dream in the same way linux was; completely open mobile platform. After all, if Apple could have the success with a closed system, Google obviously could rock the world with an open one.
But it's not. Android, or at least what most people come to think of as Android these days, is not "open". It's open to phone manufacturers, and carriers, but that's it. It' snot open to the end user. Why else do we have locked down features, closed-source OEM skins that hinder future firmware upgrades? Why else do we have carrier-controlled Market restrictions? Why do some phones not ship with developer tools, or the ability to install from unknown sources?
Let me be frank. I love Android, but Android is a mess. It's a mess of a bunch of wonderful ideas that would have shined like nothing else in the perfect world, but a mess that didn't anticipate a simple fact; businesses like to make money.
The truth of the matter is that we don't have freedom with Android. Every little part of it has a restriction we need to bypass. Do you buy an expensive high end phone, or a cheaper low-end phone? Will you still be able to play those cool games on that low end phone? Will it get software updates? Is it safe from malware? Buying an Android phone has become the same as trying to buy a Windows PC.
It suffers from the same problem that Microsoft does when compared to Apple's line of computers. Apple builds its hardware AND its software, so they interface with complete precision and function. People with iPhones don't need to worry about security updates, or whether their phone will be obsolete. Apple may release a new phone every year, but the point is that those phones are made to last, both in terms of hardware and software. They even went the next step further and made the iPod touch, which gave phone users who weren't ready for smartphones a taste of what it was like.
My Sprint Hero came out on October 11th, 2009. The iPhone 3GS came out in June of the same year. Both were priced around the same amount, but what stands out to me the most when I think back to when I tested both that year? The fact it took Google this long to make an operating system which took ages to mature enough to be used by HTC to make a phone that STILL could not even give me a smooth web browser, something that the very first iPhone was able to do. Games on the Hero sucked in comparison to the 3D games that were playable on the iPhone.
Now then, Android smartphone hardware has advanced to a significant level, but the point of this whole rant is that Google has always been following in Apple's footsteps in the mobile world, and it's going to be that way for some time.
Be a bit humble about the begginings of Android and what it's become, and for f***'s sake, be a bit mature than just saying "LOLOLOL APPLE SUCKS GG GET ANDROID".
Because it's the rest of the world outside of XDA that defines the success of these mobile platforms, because I hate to say this, but you and I are not part of that outside world of mobile phone users, and we never will be.
The truth is, no one can really say what the "perfect" mobile OS is. All we can do is say what works best for us or what we prefer, but when we state it as fact, as though it's not arguable, that's when we become the fanboys that we so dearly hate. Just keep that in mind.
Opinions welcome, fanboyism from either side not wanted at all. Congrats on finishing this post.

Excellent post. Would read again.

Great things said there. I can see a point in it. But still, I don't either see Ios higher as Android since Ios is a mess too. Let me just take this simple statement. Music on a Ipod/Iphone needs to be converted from the computer to the device, you can't random download a song(on the device) from Internet and play it. Same as the file exploring.. if you want to search for a file, you find a file in some folder like: im/af/on/ar/qr, or just some folders which are messy, and the file types are unknown for the computer. All those small things give me the excuse to stay at Windows Mobile. Simply cause we can download music files and play it, simply cause there is great development on it, simply cause it can be customized how we want it.

Cool story bro
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

d12unk13astard said:
Cool story bro
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
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Good job. That must have taken some serious thought to come up with.

This is something I 100% agree with.
When I had a Samsung Moment, I had problems galore with it. Keyboard wouldn't type, horrible support, and the big network lockup. Mind you, a network lockup where you can't call out to anyone is against FCC laws. But just to get some type of damn support for the thing, I almost had to root it. And I'm sorry, but I shouldn't have to depend on an online community for support for a phone when the carrier and manufacturer of the phone should be doing that. What the hell is the point in buying the phone and paying damn near $70 a month if I can't use the damn thing?
Let's also talk about performance of the Moment and how unoptimized it was. The Moment uses the same SoC found in the Iphone 2g, and 3g. The only difference, stock 2g and 3g SoC is 600 mhz, clocked down to about 422 mhz for battery, while the Moment was 800 mhz. Both arm11 cpu cores. The Iphone 2g and 3g despite having almost half the clocked frequency of the Moment, was smoother and had actual hardware support and acceleration. Even this day, Samsung still does not have proper hardware support for the SoC being used in the Moment, Intercept, Transform, Spica, etc etc.
If done right, Android is pretty awesome I'll admit. But if I want a phone to work, I'll get something that actually works.

big advantage of android, but also a weakness:
it works well on many devices, but its not optimised for the spezific hardware of each phone...

gosualex said:
big advantage of android, but also a weakness:
it works well on many devices, but its not optimised for the spezific hardware of each phone...
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Good understanding

I love android because I love to tinker. Nothing could ever change my mind short of the os aging. I will say this flaws or not I refuse to give apple my money. So it's either wp7 or android.
My words to live buy if I can't hack it I don't want it. Just my 2cents
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium Apps

I would agree iPhones support is a lot longer no network changes added, updates can brick the phones though.
Android need some love. Fragmentation. Networks slow to update. Ui 's being to sluggish to update the phone to higher levels.
All android phones should be aosp no extras from makers or networks.
Love my cm7/miui.us phone but most people would want to flash it or know how to. They would just think might as well get an iPhone.
Just my feelings. I own apple computers. Custom built pcs android phones had iPhones I still use an iPod touch in the kitchen as you can get the best speaker docks for them. Use what works best for the situation.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App

Android security warning !!
I think android is the best system, but its very insecure if you let it on stock and don't secure it, root it, get rid of some apps and optimize it.
Did you know that a normal app with all permissions can get all your data?
-gps location
-contacts
-logs
-screenshots
-hidden camerashots
-sms/mms
-emails
-photos
-etc
BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THIS IS FACT !!!
There was a test in germany, where a developer made a app with all the rights to do the things above and send them hidden in the backround to a specified server to that he had access. So he could read and see all the things above and it was even updating immidiatly after a new sms or something came in and the testuser who installed it had no clue at all and was shocked when they told it to her.
The App itself was just making photos with a black censor stripe in the eyes and it seemed that it never could do that, but all the real action is going on in the backround.
By the way, he sayd it was very easy and many apps could do that and most of them really do that.
And what I know, many of you don't know or don't care and spread all your information to some companys that like to have them alot. And they allways want more.
Maybe you should spread this information by quoting this post or linking to it, because many people don't like to be ripped of their information.
Or do you like it, when someone is standing close to you and listens all what you say to your friends, when you have a private conversation ? I think not!
check out my signature also.
and be safe!
edit: i think i should post this as a new thread!

Great post, good read!!

Hard to say any mobile OS is perfect. But the world of mobile OS is developing quickly in recent years.
Haven't played extensively with Android and IOS. Currenly, I still think IOS is more polish. Android definitely have a lot of features and I am looking forward to where they take the OS to in the future. It seems like it's an OS that has a lot of support and has had to "grow up" really rapidly.

I actually agrer with everything in this post. Fact is the best technology in the world is technology that is stable, works, and allows the user to complete what ever task is needed.
Last night it was decided my wife and I are switching to verizon why? Cause the wife wants IOS and I am more partial to android and BB and thats the only carrier that has all 3.
Now to add on what was already said I think google needs to pick one manufacture purchase them then do exactly what apple does marry the hardware amd software together to get rid of what can be a problematic OS simply cause with some manufactures android is worse then on others.
Sent from my SPH-P100 using XDA App

(•.•) said:
I think android is the best system, but its very insecure if you let it on stock and don't secure it, root it, get rid of some apps and optimize it.
Did you know that a normal app with all permissions can get all your data?
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You give apps on an iphone or WM phone permissions to do these things too right, so this is a more general problem in the new mobile world...
BTW, I like you're post LiquidSolstice, you could almost call it a fact, it's not that the one is better than the other. It's just that they are different and the majority of people likes easy and simple...

I agree with alot of what LS mentions in the first post. My wife is one of those who could really care less about rooting, overclocking, mem management, or even what version of Android she is using for that matter. She just wants to be able to send that text without the keyboard "hicupping", or to make that phone call without the dialer lagging, etc. I like Android, but I don't like Google's.. well let's say "less than kosher" business practices and corporate involvements. I think a big point to remember is that there will always be people like us that get a huge kick out of toying with electronics. For some, it's a hobby, for others, a career. With that being said, there will also always be those doofies that get on sites like this one and annoy the living crap out of you. Everything needs to be taken in stride, and though there are those who appear to be clueless on a subject, always remember that we all have to learn somehow. Knowledge is not obtained through osmosis.

Android feels like a permanent beta. I prefer iOS for simple tasks plusSbsettings is unmatched. WP7 seems more like a feature phone, it doesn't tell you 'I'm smart.'

I mostly agree
I don't think the problem with android is really the fact that more than one company is involved in developing phones for android. The problem is that those companies, (OEMs & carriers) have been given way to much freedom to decide not only what processor & RAM the phone would have but to put their "stamp" on android. I think the blame for that partially falls on Google for not putting a stop to OEMs & carriers putting their bloatware on phones. Google has been asked multiple times to do something about the "fragmentation" issue & they've refused, so ultimately they are partly responsible for the "mess" android has become.

tsaxda said:
I don't think the problem with android is really the fact that more than one company is involved in developing phones for android. The problem is that those companies, (OEMs & carriers) have been given way to much freedom to decide not only what processor & RAM the phone would have but to put their "stamp" on android. I think the blame for that partially falls on Google for not putting a stop to OEMs & carriers putting their bloatware on phones. Google has been asked multiple times to do something about the "fragmentation" issue & they've refused, so ultimately they are partly responsible for the "mess" android has become.
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Well, carrier "bloat" --I put that in quotes because the current three major skins bring much needed features to Android (whether or not the execution is done well or not is a different argument)-- isn't quite what's killing it, it's the time spent optimizing the hardware for Android.
Android gets slapped on as many devices as possible and then sold as a low end affordable smartphone, and that's the issue, but that's the essence of Android at the same time.

ZeGuitarist said:
Excellent post. Would read again.
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+1 Outstanding post. Completely agree.

So umm, who's the sheep?

First of all, this is strictly an observation and will likely be locked and/or deleted by a mod (my money is on orb3000) but I have been a member of the XDA community since it first came to light, originally as a lurker and, after picking up my old ppc6800, a member. I have witnessed the rise and fall of many devices and owned now over 100 smartphones with many different operating systems myself. As far as brand loyalty goes, I have none. I will use whatever the best OS is for that time.
Now, since the g1 came out (and even before that in some winmo crowds) iPhone users have been referred to as sheep. The implication is that they blindly follow Steve Jobs and instantly accept whatever he says as a law that cannot be challenged. It also implies simple-mindedness.
As of late, I have witnessed more of this behavior coming from android fans than iOS or any other OS (and before it's implied it physically pains me to say anything positive about that jumbled mess of an OS). If you look in any android related thread that exceeds three pages, namely the "google vs...." threads then you'll witness, first of all a number of unnecessary posts. A good portion of android fans come in simply to state something along the lines of "yay google" or, "android all da way." The levels of literacy, or lack thereof, paired with the simple-minded approach of their posts is pretty much the very definition of a "sheep." Second, and in my opinion even worse, are the people who enter these threads, are fully aware of what is going on, and still treat the situation as though google is in the right and they don't deserve to get sued just because everything they are as a company is stolen. The most common argument in this type of post is that the patents are bull****. They are for trivial things that we do passively. The fact of the matter though is that this was not always the case. Case in point, I just had a discussion with someone who said that the way that we update our address book is not a valid patent. Now, in modern times updating our address books on our phone or computer is something we do in passing. However at some point the ability to do so was unheard of until someone came up with it and filed a patent. Should a patent be lost just because something has been popularized enough to become routine? The blind following is the other side of this "sheepish" behavior.
Though I'm absolutely certain it will, this was not intended to start any wars. It's more or less a cautionary measure. Don't turn into that which you so desperately hate.

Agree. My first 'smartphone' was a temporary g1 while my Nokia(can't remember the model no. but a small metal one...) was being repaired. It WAS a revelation, but behind the then current iPhone in many ways. I subsequently went for an X10, and now an Xperia Arc despite the initial poor support from SE. I still prefer the android OS for several reasons, but ultimately the iPhone is very good at what it does. There will always be a huge argument over the open/closed OS and who are the sheep, I was pretty anti-Apple years ago but in retrospect it was just pettiness.
sinkster©

For the record I'm not trying to insult anyone. Actually I'm saying you shouldn't insult another unless you exhibit none of the characteristics in question yourself.

Most of the "Android ftw" or "Android is much better" posts are from people desperately trying to reach 10 posts so they can ask some question in the devs sections which has probably been asked before.
Just look at the Steve Job's or battery related threads in OT, they're full of it.

This is an interesting topic. I believe that you will find smart people and trolls in all OS camps. My belief as to why so much Android now is its success. The larger and more prominent an OS is the more backers it will have and with this comes the fools. The sheer volume of Android posts vs windows phone posts here suggests that there are more posters and thus more trolls. That being said Android 4 lyfe.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment that in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.

patents
z33dev33l said:
Should a patent be lost just because something has been popularized enough to become routine?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely! without a doubt
it's just as inconceivable as some one patenting breathing, but instead they register it as "inhale & exhale of air"
whom ever gets the patent first, will be able to collect on roughly 7 billion humans breathing on this planet.
yay! for vague and stupid patents.
the whole patent system world wide needs to be re-assessed, anything that has already become popularized, illogical, common sense stuff, part of our daily life, should simply be invalidated.
patents should be scientifical in nature, with prof of concept, equations, exact measurements, exact definitions, must be working, not theory, nothing vague like we have seen in all the latest battles in court.

phones
z33dev33l said:
I have witnessed the rise and fall of many devices and owned now over 100 smartphones with many different operating systems myself. As far as brand loyalty goes, I have none. I will use whatever the best OS is for that time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same here, i just go for whatever has the better hardware spec
the OS / software can always be changed, specially here in XDA
the well know HTC HD2 for example is one of the most fun phone ever migrate from one OS to another.... who would have though of that back then?
currently no other manufacture can hold a candle to the slew of cool devices being release by Samsung
if anybody else release a better phone, I'll be the first to jump ship and get the next best thing

AllGamer said:
same here, i just go for whatever has the better hardware spec
the OS / software can always be changed, specially here in XDA
the well know HTC HD2 for example is one of the most fun phone ever migrate from one OS to another.... who would have though of that back then?
currently no other manufacture can hold a candle to the slew of cool devices being release by Samsung
if anybody else release a better phone, I'll be the first to jump ship and get the next best thing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am awaiting the Galaxy Note and Galaxy Skin (I heard of the Skin from a local newspaper)
Forever living in my Galaxy Ace using XDA App

lowandbehold said:
I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment than in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So true, so true

z33dev33l said:
For the record I'm not trying to insult anyone. Actually I'm saying you shouldn't insult another unless you exhibit none of the characteristics in question yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if I don't agree with your original point entirely I really agree with this right here.
I still refer to apple users as "iSheep" sometimes.
You just have to understand that when I say that, I am not saying that A. All apple users are sheep. B. there aren't users of microsoft or google who are sheep.
All brands have blind loyalist, all systems have flaws.
The problem I have with "iSheep" is that they don't research, think or care about what else is out there. They also accept products built to be restrictive towards them.
Sure android devices do have restrictions and flaws and fixing that voids the warranty, but at least the ground up design is based on allowing the user to do what they want.
Android is just as guilty of Apple of having followers with blind loyalty, I don't deny that nor do I ever try to.
I will also say that part of my critiquing of apple comes from the fact that apple markets directly to the users ego. They sell "cool" they don't sell devices. It is marketing gold, but as a person studying software engineering.. I absolutely abhor the way they don't market devices.. They market a reason to have arrogance and superiority complexes.
I am not saying users of other products are innocent, but nothing burns me up more than to have someone start being judgmental of my purchases because they were blessed by the all knowing god Jobs in the Apple store.
Ok, time for me to rip on android users for just a second.
Guys, I love android.. Can we get past the inferiority complex now? We have a lot of great options.. I don't care how the latest i-whatever compares.
I really don't care to see the i-whatever compared to every android product out there either. Quit treating it like an on going competition.
I mean really.. if we quit comparing devices at every single turn, we will all be that much happier.
I like to keep track of what is out and what is up and new.. But, seriously.. why even talk about i-whatever at all? they release a phone once a year.. Why compare brand new phones to ones that are in the electronics world almost legacy hardware.

this post should be moved to the question and answer forum, LOLOL

i concur iSheep vs. aSheep vs. mSheep (or wSheep?)
it's true, people should just focus on the fun thing about the latest and gadget being released.
after all that's why most of us are in here.
let the companies fight each other until there's no left
but until then as consumers lets just rip the benefits, and hack the crap out of the gadgets that we like the most.

Hey everyone I'm new to the forum. I was just reading this, and found it interesting haha. So what exactly is meant by the term "sheep"?

lowandbehold said:
I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment that in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It certainly was, though of the two posts I don't feel that mine was the only one with such intent.

AllGamer said:
Definitely! without a doubt
it's just as inconceivable as some one patenting breathing, but instead they register it as "inhale & exhale of air"
whom ever gets the patent first, will be able to collect on roughly 7 billion humans breathing on this planet.
yay! for vague and stupid patents.
the whole patent system world wide needs to be re-assessed, anything that has already become popularized, illogical, common sense stuff, part of our daily life, should simply be invalidated.
patents should be scientifical in nature, with prof of concept, equations, exact measurements, exact definitions, must be working, not theory, nothing vague like we have seen in all the latest battles in court.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?

z33dev33l said:
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.

z33dev33l said:
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Should companies really be allowed to have vague and potentially ambiguous patents?
I would love to patent square box like objects then sue -
phone makers
tv makers
picture frame makers
every computer manufacturer
usb drive manufacterers.
Ect, ect, ect
I do wish people would quit worrying about what apple is doing..
On the other hand, to deny that Apple is a gigantic troll in a lot of ways is out right denial.
---------- Post added at 07:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------
lowandbehold said:
Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another issue that I have, is patents hamper innovation.
What is the point of developing something new based on existing technology, if your only going to get sued for it anyway even if you are doing it totally different?
Now days being "inspired" by someone else is grounds for a law suit..

lowandbehold said:
Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
however, if you become noticed, become the biggest toothbrush manufacturer in the world, you can bet that whoever holds the patent will be down your throat as they should be.

according to Apple... it's no longer about patents
check out the latest court case in Australia
http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/...duce-customers-court-told-20110929-1kyl5.html
Apple also raised concerns that every Galaxy Tab sold would cost it future app sales as the users would become "Android people". Apple's iTunes App Store dominance would be challenged if customers were "seduced" or "sapped away by the Galaxy Tab and its infringements".
"They'll then be Android people and the investment in the apps that they make to purchase on their Galaxy Tab will be something they can't use on an Apple product," Apple's lawyer said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung's lawyers have criticised the fact that Apple did not seek injunctions against previous Samsung products that would by their logic also infringe its patents. Apple's response to this was that, because Samsung is a significant supplier to Apple, it "engaged in negotiations in the first instance".
"We're not the first Android on the market and other people are getting in fast. It's critical that we're a first mover not dribble in behind everybody else. It's blossoming at the moment," Samsung's lawyer said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple real target is not really Samsung violating their patents, it's about afraid of losing market to Android, and afraid of people choosing Android over iOS, and people spending their money in Android Market than Apps Store
When Android first started with HTC and Motorola, they were not as advanced enough as the hardware spec offered by Samsung
which easily attracted a lot of people, myself included, i purchased it for the hardware.
so, clearly Apple only wants to slow Samsung down, just so people have less choices to be switched over to Android
Apple is preventing people from Choosing what they want to use, by their logic eliminating Samsung will drastically reduce the will to choose another better device and less chance of people liking another OS
so practically the same can be applied for the good phones being released by Samsung for Windows

What Google isn't Doing right (don't hate me)

1st off, My house is an android powered house and I love the platform. It is only after months of being around my girlfriend and her family as they used android, that I started to really put a finer point on why so many people prefer other OS's (yes i understand Android is grabbing up market share like crazy). this is my thoughts after watching people I know use and leave android, use and struggle with android, and use and love android.
1st off, a list of the things that aren't google fault per say, but pit falls due to there lack of control over the final product.
#1) battery life. Due to varying hardware design and the freedom to do as you please to the OS, manufactures have made some phones with really bad battery life. this coupled with the constant updating a android device can do for any apps and the increase in popularity of cloud service, android ends up with wildly varying battery life from device to device.
#2) Consistency. If someone had a Verizon "droid", they could be using a Sense UI, a moto blur UI, or vanilla android. That's just in that one "brand of phone" alone. People dont adapt well to tech if they aren't big tech fans.
#3 quality of hardware, and I'm not talking about specs. Most consumers only judge the internals on how smooth the final product is. No, I'm talking about, build materials and the screen. There is some junk out there (allot of them have great internals). some of these phones are built like toys with race car parts inside them.
Now for where google is falling short.
#1 marketing. This is amazing to me that an Advertising company would fall short here but they do. Google ads focus on strange things like the ability to unlock your bootloader. Most people have no idea what this means and why they should care. They probably shouldn't care since they will never hack there phones.
also, every time Apple comes out with an "I" product ad, they are doing a real good job of showing how there "new feature" will make your life more fun and allot easier. The funny thing is, they are almost always features that android already had.
This is one of the things I really started to notice as I was surrounded by the non tech savvy android users. I would say, "funny, android already does that, has for a while now". My girlfriend would then ask, "does my phone do that?". Wow Google, you should be the master and telling people about all the selling points of your product.
#2 ease of use. This one may also be an issue with the carriers but I am going to put it in this section. One of the things I again noticed as I helped my girlfriend master here Nexus S 4G was, weird quirks that are not even a stumbling block to a Tech savvy user but almost a deal breaker to the average consumer.
Example: when my girlfriend 1st got here nexus, she hated it, couldn't believe I recommended it. One of her issues that stuck in my mind was the SMS limit. She hated that the SMS would cap her before she was done texing a message. She didnt care if it sent as two messages but she wanted to be able to type one continues message and then send it, letting the software sort it out. So I said, no problem, my phone doesn't do that (galaxy nexus) so there must be a deep setting to control this. As it turns out there wasn't, at least I couldn't find it. So again, I said no problem and down loaded handsent witch fixed the problem and she loved the easy theming. Well along came here ICS update that I had been raving about and her phone started crashing. Turns out handsent was the reason. Again, I said, no problem and downloaded Go SMS witch she loves even more.
That's just one example, in the mean time, 4 people in her family have switched from android to I Phones and don't regret it. I feel that one of them was mainly due to the hardware they chose and the rest is because they didn't have the live in tech help that my girlfriend has ( don't mean that to sound arrogant). My girlfriend loves her phone partly because I fix each issue as it arises and inform her of cool features.
Conclusion: I really think that the the lack of consistency is the other side of the open source double edged sword. this shows it self in software and hardware. It can be as small as the order in witch the bottom buttons appear, and as big as the Sense UI that changes everything a little bit. I also feel that no one besides Verizon in the early days, is really advertising Android well. Even Verizon doesn't do as good of a job showing you how much the phones can do and why you should want these features as Apple does.

Oddly I aggree with most of that, esp the marketing, you know I just found out just how good google voice was the other day... I have had android phones now for 3 years... Lol.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

funny you should bring up google voice. That was one of the things that I was thinking about when it comes to advertising short comings. It has been a great feature and a solid performer and now with Jellybean, it has every function of Siri, with the performance level I have come to expect from Google voice.
google needs to talk about it in plain English with every day examples of implementation

All of those faults/cons/criticisms can be attributed to just about any device/thing/object/concept that endorses an open-ended nature. The one off the top of my head that fits the OP's bill nearly word for word is Windows (technically Windows is closed-source). The Playstation 3 is a similar concept too. It's got all the nice bells and tech but its advertising sucks.
Google doesn't need to do any advertising, but rather the respective manufacturers. They're the ones that should be selling what Android does for their phones and why people should choose their phones over the others. If there are feature discrepancies from one phone to the other, the manufacturers should work to get those features implemented, that's the real strength of open-source software. It helps a lot if a manufacturer works together with their modding community to make it happen, which in turns makes your product/device more competitive and play on that.
Google caters to the developers because that's what Google is: a developer. That's why Google has their own line of phones: Nexus. Their phones are catered to the developers and well...us XDA'ers. They do a good job at advertising where it matters: recent one being their own conference just a week ago. If it reassures the OP: the rumor that Google plans to expand the Nexus line to more manufacturers is a good thing for us XDAers and friends of XDAers.

alpha-niner64 said:
All of those faults/cons/criticisms can be attributed to just about any device/thing/object/concept that endorses an open-ended nature. The one off the top of my head that fits the OP's bill nearly word for word is Windows (technically Windows is closed-source). The Playstation 3 is a similar concept too. It's got all the nice bells and tech but its advertising sucks.
Google doesn't need to do any advertising, but rather the respective manufacturers. They're the ones that should be selling what Android does for their phones and why people should choose their phones over the others. If there are feature discrepancies from one phone to the other, the manufacturers should work to get those features implemented, that's the real strength of open-source software. It helps a lot if a manufacturer works together with their modding community to make it happen, which in turns makes your product/device more competitive and play on that.
Google caters to the developers because that's what Google is: a developer. That's why Google has their own line of phones: Nexus. Their phones are catered to the developers and well...us XDA'ers. They do a good job at advertising where it matters: recent one being their own conference just a week ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1st off, other companies doing it too, its not a reason to ignore said issue. Also, windows is taking steps to correct the hardware issue and make there OS consistent (for example)
If you think google doesn't "have to" advertise, I guess your right but even companies like 3M who sells many products to OEM's that then sell to the end user (like google) advertise to further there brand and promote the use of there products by OEM's. Also, 3M knows more about the products than any one OEM that uses there products, not to mention, the OEM's that use 3M consider 3M to be one of the reasons there product is good, and will not focus on key points of the 3M element.
Also, look at gorilla glass from corning, another product that isn't sold direct to the end user. They do there own advertising to promote there product and increase brand recognition to better sell there product.
I also disagree that google is a developer selling to developers only. Google nexus 7 is a perfect example of that. The nexus 7 tab is meant to further the "play store" brand, and is being sold at a vary low price point in the hopes that play store sales will make up for it just like the Kindle. I also don't think the Galaxy Nexus is a "developer device" at least, not exclusively.
So does google have to, no. Should they want to, yes.

What would you have Google advertise about that other companies should be doing in their stead? Google has brand recognition already and it's pretty clear by Google I/O that their intended audience isn't the Apple crowd: so who else would there be to advertise to? If the Apple crowd is whom you're referring to: that should be Samsung, HTC, Sony's job to do. What can Google do to help those manufacturers sell their features to the consumer that those companies aren't already doing themselves?

This is where we are going to disagree. Google has brand recognition but Android has far less. Verizon, did the best job and now the "droid" brand has more recognition than "android", many times "droid" is used and the general brand for all android by consumers. I don't think Google should depend on hardware companies to advertise there product. Even windows advertises there software. The OEM's should ALSO advertise but not ONLY advertise.
Advertising that the Galaxy nexus has a "unlockable" boot loader is un needed and doesnt further the brand. 98% of the people who want a unlocked boot loader, knew the galaxy nexus had one before the ad hit the streets.
The fact that apple fans are oviusly not googles target market is or should be false (proven by samsung). Google should be polishing there OS so that more of apple users would be interested. Google will not be able to continue on for ever just appealing to a small market such as the XDA community. OEM's will abandon them if that was the case. Look at the OEM's and there behavior, they are not interested in selling phones to the developer community only, otherwise Motorola would not lock there phones down as they did, or at least they would offer developers unlock tools like HTC has done. HTC is a little more "developer marketed" but lets be real, they still drag there feet when ever they can or feel pressure from the big 3.
That leads me to the Carrier's, they do not want to sell phones marketed to developers that are easily hacked and modded. they want control. Google should want to sell the most units they can within reason. This means helping the developer community with there goals and helping the OEM's and Carrier's with there's. Google should be (and I think they are) trying to make android more marketable to the masses and then lead that marketing campaign by example.
Its like that old saying, "alone with your principles". You can stand here and say that the OEM's should do all the advertising but it doesn't change the fact that they aren't doing what needs to be done and google need to sell product that is dependent on the platform. They are an advertising company so do they sit back and hope HTC and Samsung start talking more about there product and doing more to show how it will improve our lives or should they step in and show the OEM's how its done, at the same time increasing the value of there products

I think a lot of your issues are going to be solved for the mainstream with more Nexus devices rolling out. The other great thing is that as more people start looking at Nexus flexibility and timely updates the more other OEMs will be forced to follow suit if they want to stay viable. It seems Sony and to some extent HTC and Samsung are pretty serious about both the hardware and update side of things so anyone else will just have to play catch-up.
As a whole though some of these things will continue to persist. One of the draws of Android devices is having smartphone abilities without ridiculous cost. There will always be people who want the goodies but don't have a lot of extra funds and those devices will simply be a little behind the curve. With the optimizations coming via Jellybean though OEMs won't have the excuse of claiming that newer versions are too complex for older phones and I would hope that they continue to push updates for a reasonable period.

Stupid post. Why? Because you have no clue what android is. Android is an open source operating system. OEM's take android, and just so you know, they don't need google's consent, and manipulate it the way they want to put on their hardware. Google has no say in what they do to it, how they arrange their buttons, or the UI that they add to it. So your post is more directed at OEM's than google.

lowandbehold said:
Stupid post. Why? Because you have no clue what android is. Android is an open source operating system. OEM's take android, and just so you know, they don't need google's consent, and manipulate it the way they want to put on their hardware. Google has no say in what they do to it, how they arrange their buttons, or the UI that they add to it. So your post is more directed at OEM's than google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you read my post you would have seen I acknowledge that some of these issues are a side effect of open source. They do in fact charge for the "gaps" suite. all hardware sold with gaps on it has paid licensing to Google.

dB Zac said:
if you read my post you would have seen I acknowledge that some of these issues are a side effect of open source. They do in fact charge for the "gaps" suite. all hardware sold with gaps on it has paid licensing to Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So? Google gets no say in how they manipulate the OS. I mean seriously...battery life? How the f*** could that be a google issue?

I spesificly said that wasn't Google's fault, but a short coming of open source
Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk 2

dB Zac said:
I spesificly said that wasn't Google's fault, but a short coming of open source
Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like you need an Iphone..

lowandbehold said:
Sounds like you need an Iphone..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I have to love it and ignore any and all short coming or be crusified? Ok sounds like a page from apple fanboyism
here, since you will not read the whole thing before commenting, i will post the part you seemed to miss
dB Zac said:
1st off, a list of the things that aren't google fault per say, but pit falls due to there lack of control over the final product.
#1) battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

dB Zac said:
1st off, My house is an android powered house and I love the platform. It is only after months of being around my girlfriend and her family as they used android, that I started to really put a finer point on why so many people prefer other OS's (yes i understand Android is grabbing up market share like crazy). this is my thoughts after watching people I know use and leave android, use and struggle with android, and use and love android.
1st off, a list of the things that aren't google fault per say, but pit falls due to there lack of control over the final product.
#1) battery life. Due to varying hardware design and the freedom to do as you please to the OS, manufactures have made some phones with really bad battery life. this coupled with the constant updating a android device can do for any apps and the increase in popularity of cloud service, android ends up with wildly varying battery life from device to device.
#2) Consistency. If someone had a Verizon "droid", they could be using a Sense UI, a moto blur UI, or vanilla android. That's just in that one "brand of phone" alone. People dont adapt well to tech if they aren't big tech fans.
#3 quality of hardware, and I'm not talking about specs. Most consumers only judge the internals on how smooth the final product is. No, I'm talking about, build materials and the screen. There is some junk out there (allot of them have great internals). some of these phones are built like toys with race car parts inside them.
Now for where google is falling short.
#1 marketing. This is amazing to me that an Advertising company would fall short here but they do. Google ads focus on strange things like the ability to unlock your bootloader. Most people have no idea what this means and why they should care. They probably shouldn't care since they will never hack there phones.
also, every time Apple comes out with an "I" product ad, they are doing a real good job of showing how there "new feature" will make your life more fun and allot easier. The funny thing is, they are almost always features that android already had.
This is one of the things I really started to notice as I was surrounded by the non tech savvy android users. I would say, "funny, android already does that, has for a while now". My girlfriend would then ask, "does my phone do that?". Wow Google, you should be the master and telling people about all the selling points of your product.
#2 ease of use. This one may also be an issue with the carriers but I am going to put it in this section. One of the things I again noticed as I helped my girlfriend master here Nexus S 4G was, weird quirks that are not even a stumbling block to a Tech savvy user but almost a deal breaker to the average consumer.
Example: when my girlfriend 1st got here nexus, she hated it, couldn't believe I recommended it. One of her issues that stuck in my mind was the SMS limit. She hated that the SMS would cap her before she was done texing a message. She didnt care if it sent as two messages but she wanted to be able to type one continues message and then send it, letting the software sort it out. So I said, no problem, my phone doesn't do that (galaxy nexus) so there must be a deep setting to control this. As it turns out there wasn't, at least I couldn't find it. So again, I said no problem and down loaded handsent witch fixed the problem and she loved the easy theming. Well along came here ICS update that I had been raving about and her phone started crashing. Turns out handsent was the reason. Again, I said, no problem and downloaded Go SMS witch she loves even more.
That's just one example, in the mean time, 4 people in her family have switched from android to I Phones and don't regret it. I feel that one of them was mainly due to the hardware they chose and the rest is because they didn't have the live in tech help that my girlfriend has ( don't mean that to sound arrogant). My girlfriend loves her phone partly because I fix each issue as it arises and inform her of cool features.
Conclusion: I really think that the the lack of consistency is the other side of the open source double edged sword. this shows it self in software and hardware. It can be as small as the order in witch the bottom buttons appear, and as big as the Sense UI that changes everything a little bit. I also feel that no one besides Verizon in the early days, is really advertising Android well. Even Verizon doesn't do as good of a job showing you how much the phones can do and why you should want these features as Apple does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok let me help you out.
#2: Actually, Droid branding is owned by motorola, therefore they will only be using blur UI.
Marketing: Google is not in the business of advertising an OEM's phone. That is up to the OEM and the OEM only.
Ease of use: Apple owns a patent that breaks up the long text AFTER it is typed. Therefore, it would be illegal for Android to use it. Example invalid.
Conclusion: Verizon sucks.
You really did not point out 1 thing that google has control over in your whole post.

lowandbehold said:
Stupid post. Why? Because you have no clue what android is. Android is an open source operating system. OEM's take android, and just so you know, they don't need google's consent, and manipulate it the way they want to put on their hardware. Google has no say in what they do to it, how they arrange their buttons, or the UI that they add to it. So your post is more directed at OEM's than google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/03/14/android-isnt-really-open-its-just-less-closed-than-apple/
Google only cares about advertising (and like to snoop in on what you do, say, what you buy, where you shop, visit, etc... ) of course.
But they do have pretty good control over Android.

lowandbehold said:
Ok let me help you out.
#2: Actually, Droid branding is owned by motorola, therefore they will only be using blur UI.
Marketing: Google is not in the business of advertising an OEM's phone. That is up to the OEM and the OEM only.
Ease of use: Apple owns a patent that breaks up the long text AFTER it is typed. Therefore, it would be illegal for Android to use it. Example invalid.
Conclusion: Verizon sucks.
You really did not point out 1 thing that google has control over in your whole post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1st off, "droid" always running blur was not the point and incorrect. Verizon owns the "droid" name, as it is licensed to them by Lucus Industries. hence the HTC phones under that same brand name. I was commenting on the superior advertizing and Branding that Verizon did. The Droid 1 was a great vanilla phone that did well in a large part, due to advertizing. The verizon campain made "droid" a household name, more so than "Android".
2nd google can advertise features and the OS without advertising a specifice peice of hardware, windows does it all the time. Also, since google does have Google branded harware (nexus), they are in the hardware biz and should advertize aas such.
"Verizon sucks" based on what I can only emagin was your reasoning for this statement, I'm sure all major cariers "suck, not really the point here. Out of all the cariers, Verizon, furthered the android the most in the last 3 years out of anyone. Only now is Samsung beging to be the leader in promoting the android platform.

I agree with you on this, anyone who ask me what phone to get, i personally recommend iPhone UNLESS the guy knows his stuff, i myself LOVE android, been using it for 3 years now but i am software developer and very much familiar with kernels and bootloaders and and and , someone was aksing me the other day, since Android has much bigger marketshare, why everything comes out for iPhone first?
answer is simple, as a developer making things for iPhone is sooooo much easier, you only have "ONE" screen dimension to worry about, you only got 3-4 phones to worry about which 90% of them are similar, now compare this with android phones !!!
and last as everyone mentioned is advertising, personally i think google and all manufacturers do a HORRIBLE job promoting , remember when iCloud came out? nothing new really, just another DropBox, but Apple made such a big deal about it, everyone was AMAZED !!! same with siri, and so many other things,
Personally i think iPhone WORKS, its great for people who dont think outside the box, they want something that WORKS and thats it, they like to be TOLD what to do, how to use your phone , and they follow it.
Android is for thone who like to explore, install custom ROMs , play with OC/UV , etc.

Raul77 said:
remember when iCloud came out? nothing new really, just another DropBox, but Apple made such a big deal about it, everyone was AMAZED !!! same with siri, and so many other things
thats another real good example of, others were 1st but Apple advertizes better
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I actually came from a blackberry, where in convention they make and market their devices.
When I switched to android now essentially Samsung was giving me their flavour of what they call android through Touchwiz and I really hated it.
Google should really take sometime to ensure manufacturers aren't dumbing down the platform for consumers and give users a clear overview of how it can serve them. Which is exactly what Google does with its Nexus.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Force Sale: Redmi Note 5 For iPhone-XR Due To Major Security Concerns..

If Your Personal Information Means Anything To You...
Read The Article: https://www.cnet.com/news/these-android-apps-have-been-tracking-you-even-when-you-say-stop/
I know for a lot of you.. This Means Nothing.
But.. for those of you that do Business on your device.. banking or otherwise.. or store personal photos, docs etc.. it may be time to let Android based devices go.
mod edit
Am I in the minority in feeling this way after reading this article? :angel:

Do you really think that the iPhone is better? hehe
Wysłane z mojego Redmi Note 5 przy użyciu Tapatalka

The funny thing is some android users are still concerned about the security and still fails to understand that every android user ( I'm 100% convinced that anyone even iOS or anything else) is already ****ed long time ago.
And in this article it was enough to read the first line about what Google will do (Google said it had investigated Egelman's report and taken action on some apps)
The biggest data stealers are investigating a security issue...LMAO
If your daughter got pregnant from her boyfriend, google will know before you, that was one of the little things i read about Google.
I really have many things to say but i feel it's just a waste of time.
No need to worry at all, they already know everything about you, everyone is watched by the satellites, they are controlling everything, so after all those years you started to worry about your privacy? for real?

Just don't use the Internet bro! No Internet = no privacy risk!

I've Grown Up..
Antyhaker said:
Do you really think that the iPhone is better? hehe
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've Long Since Grown Out Of The "Fanboy" Stage...
Everyone Knows The iPhone Is Superior.. The Performance Numbers Clearly Show NOTHING Touches The iPhone's Bionic Processor.. Nothing Runs As Fluid.. But Most Of All Apple Has ALWAYS Controlled The Hardware AND Software.. :angel:
Please....
Link Me To The "The iPhone Has Been Hacked" Articles.... :victory:
P.S.
You're Welcomed To This Now 2 Generation Old XRN5 For $100.00 Bucks.. Just P.M. Me... It's All Yours.

RaiderWill said:
I've Long Since Grown Out Of The "Fanboy" Stage...
Everyone Knows The iPhone Is Superior.. The Performance Numbers Clearly Show NOTHING Touches The iPhone's Bionic Processor.. Nothing Runs As Fluid.. But Most Of All Apple Has ALWAYS Controlled The Hardware AND Software.. :angel:
Please....
Link Me To The "The iPhone Has Been Hacked" Articles.... :victory:
P.S.
You're Welcomed To This Now 2 Generation Old XRN5 For $100.00 Bucks.. Just P.M. Me... It's All Yours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bruh, benchmarks doesnt mean nothing, in speed tests the Xperia XZ2 beat the XS with a "less powerful" SD845, and about two weeks ago there was a bug/exploit which let 'hackers' spy you through Facetime, even Apple recognized his error and it's fixed now, but that means that even iPhones are vulnerable, i'm not trying to stopping you to switch to the iPhone but still, not the most secure either.
https://iphone.appleinsider.com/art...milar-to-group-facetime-bug-for-eavesdropping

RaiderWill said:
If Your Personal Information Means Anything To You...
Read The Article: https://www.cnet.com/news/these-android-apps-have-been-tracking-you-even-when-you-say-stop/
I know for a lot of you.. This Means Nothing.
But.. for those of you that do Business on your device.. banking or otherwise.. or store personal photos, docs etc.. it may be time to let Android based devices go.
This is my year to upgrade from the XRN5... ($100.00) if anyone wants it (P.S. me) and I think I may have to switch camps ( Ugh! ) for the security alone.
Am I in the minority in feeling this way after reading this article? :angel:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is fine and all, but you realize that you can literally use custom frameworks to completely avoid Google/Mi/Samsung/whatever you're using, right?
Security is a relative term. If you know the right things, nobody can take away your data without your consent.
These kinds of posts only bring out the fact that you're never going to modify the internals of your device, and use it to its full potential.
In that case, you deserve an iPhone. XDA is not for you.

rocker00 said:
The funny thing is some android users are still concerned about the security and still fails to understand that every android user ( I'm 100% convinced that anyone even iOS or anything else) is already ****ed long time ago.
And in this article it was enough to read the first line about what Google will do (Google said it had investigated Egelman's report and taken action on some apps)
The biggest data stealers are investigating a security issue...LMAO
If your daughter got pregnant from her boyfriend, google will know before you, that was one of the little things i read about Google.
I really have many things to say but i feel it's just a waste of time.
No need to worry at all, they already know everything about you, everyone is watched by the satellites, they are controlling everything, so after all those years you started to worry about your privacy? for real?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think Apple is any better, their all american companies.
---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 PM ----------
RaiderWill said:
I've Long Since Grown Out Of The "Fanboy" Stage...
Everyone Knows The iPhone Is Superior.. The Performance Numbers Clearly Show NOTHING Touches The iPhone's Bionic Processor.. Nothing Runs As Fluid.. But Most Of All Apple Has ALWAYS Controlled The Hardware AND Software.. :angel:
Please....
Link Me To The "The iPhone Has Been Hacked" Articles.... :victory:
P.S.
You're Welcomed To This Now 2 Generation Old XRN5 For $100.00 Bucks.. Just P.M. Me... It's All Yours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You call this device old dude? -,- I normally use a phone at least 2 years or more before I even think of changing and this device is barely 1 year old almost only. I bought my RN5 just 3 months ago for almost 200 Bucks.. lol Cause I don't like the RN6 or 7, Notch looks horrible and Apple Stuff is not allowed to even get into my room. I love Android devices and I'm proud of it. Btw. I don't do any banking stuff on any device, I'm oldschool. I prefer buying stuff with real money and not virtual through devices.
P.S. When you love and adore Apple so much, please kindly let us in peace and leave this forum lol XDA is not for spreading Apple love.

xell75 said:
I don't think Apple is any better, their all american
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what i said, Ofc they aren't, or anything else.
rocker00 said:
( I'm 100% convinced that anyone even iOS or anything else)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some "intelligent" dudes here think that they will be in the safe side by using the custom ROMs cuz MIUI is full of spy, i read that many times here, ofc MIUI is full of spy (not joking) but what is the difference if it's from MIUI or Google?
After using Whatsapp and FB and bla bla and still looking for privacy
And know he's saying he will be in the safe side by using the iOS, the white angels, like i said, this is just a waste of time, happy safe side for all.

RaiderWill said:
If Your Personal Information Means Anything To You...
Read The Article: https://www.cnet.com/news/these-android-apps-have-been-tracking-you-even-when-you-say-stop/
I know for a lot of you.. This Means Nothing.
But.. for those of you that do Business on your device.. banking or otherwise.. or store personal photos, docs etc.. it may be time to let Android based devices go.
This is my year to upgrade from the XRN5... ($100.00) if anyone wants it (P.S. me) and I think I may have to switch camps ( Ugh! ) for the security alone.
Am I in the minority in feeling this way after reading this article? :angel:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
looool
https://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-5t/themes/list-favorite-applications-oneplus-5t-t3739134
i like how you now are switching to apple that basically lock you on your crappy phone without any chance to change even your icon pack sorry but this is bs for me

As long as you are online you won't be safe and private buddy.. don't delude yourself, ios, Android, Windows, linux doesn't matter.. in my opinion everything is comprised, I mean cmon, Tor was made by the CIA. Even if the software is securez let's say you have a super autistic Linux distro and some Tor variant and vpn, you can stilk be f*cked by the hardware backdoors installed there since the manufacturing process
1984 is our reality, because we choose it to be like that for comfort and apathy

alexmason90 said:
Tor was made by the CIA. Even if the software is securez let's say you have a super autistic Linux distro and some Tor variant and vpn,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really salute you , i swear i was about to talk about the same thing, the deep & dark web but since the main purpose of this topic to sell his device maybe so i didn't even care to write more, as you said, since you accepted to use all of these things you have to forget about something calls privacy.
Also like the post before you says, A LOCKED DEVICE and he think he will be in a safe...hahaha!

Such Anger...
abrahamrhs said:
Bruh, benchmarks doesnt mean nothing and about two weeks ago there was a bug/exploit which let 'hackers' spy you through Facetime
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Benchmarks Don't Mean Nothin"
Really?
Then... why does every website that researches performance use them.. :victory:
id74em8 said:
This is fine and all, but you realize that you can literally use custom frameworks to completely avoid Google/Mi/Samsung/whatever you're using, right?
Security is a relative term. If you know the right things, nobody can take away your data without your consent.
These kinds of posts only bring out the fact that you're never going to modify the internals of your device, and use it to its full potential.
In that case, you deserve an iPhone. XDA is not for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do You See How Many Comments & Thanks I Have?
Do You Think This Is My 1st Redeo?
Why in the world would I "Avoid" Using any of the OS's you've mentioned??
Some Devices Are "Safer" Than Others..... And Fact Is.... The Note 5 is quite frankly old news in 2019.. I Modified It.. Back In It's Day.. The Custom ROM's Were ALL Buggy To Some Degree..
I Went Rooted-Stock.. and never looked back.. 100% Stability.. Best Battery Life... And 50+ Killer "FREE" Themes To Boot.. ( Not Bad Xiaomi ) It's just 2 Generations Old.. and the landscape has changed dramatically since the Note 5's Hay Day..:victory:
xell75 said:
I don't think Apple is any better, their all american companies.
You call this device old dude? -,- I normally use a phone at least 2 years or more before I even think of changing and this device is barely 1 year old almost only. I bought my RN5 just 3 months ago for almost 200 Bucks.. lol Cause I don't like the RN6 or 7, Notch looks horrible and Apple Stuff is not allowed to even get into my room. I love Android devices and I'm proud of it. Btw. .
P.S. When you love and adore Apple so much, please kindly let us in peace and leave this forum lol XDA is not for spreading Apple love.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're Entitled To Your Opion..
And... You JUST BOUGHT your device.. So, it seems new to "YOU" I get that... enjoy it!
Understand Something..
I Don't "Adore Apple"
They Simply Have Superior Control overall by controlling the Hardware & the Software..
Any System In Cyberspace Can Be Hacked.. SSL's get cracked all the time..
But.. Android is CHAOS... With Fragmentation EVERYWHERE
Anyone's Hand Can Dip In The Pie... And That's Why There Are So Many Germs In Android. :victory:
rocker00 said:
After using Whatsapp and FB and bla bla and still looking for privacy
And know he's saying he will be in the safe side by using the iOS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your English Leaves A LOT To Be Desired..
And... What Gave You The Impression I Use Whatsapp & Facebook... Or Any Other "Social Media" Outlet?? That There Is Funny! :victory:
Rush-er said:
looool
https://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-5t/themes/list-favorite-applications-oneplus-5t-t3739134
i like how you now are switching to apple that basically lock you on your crappy phone without any chance to change even your icon pack sorry but this is bs for me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good Thing You're Not Switching Huh? :victory:
alexmason90 said:
As long as you are online you won't be safe and private buddy.. don't delude yourself, ios, Android, Windows, linux doesn't matter.. in my opinion everything is comprised, I mean cmon,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh...... Ok.
Because.... "YOUR OPINION" Is Of Course.. *The Final Word* :victory:
rocker00 said:
i swear the main purpose of this topic to sell his device and he think he will be in a safe...hahaha!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmmm....
Let's see...
A Device That is now 2 Generations Old..... That's Worth $100.00 USD... And "He" who *THINKS HE WILL BE SAFE* and is about to drop $1,000.00 USD on his next device.. ( Thanks To Hard Work And Saving ) needs to plead with the community to purchase a 2017 phone...
Yeah.... Poor Me. :victory:

alexmason90 said:
As long as you are online you won't be safe and private buddy.. don't delude yourself, ios, Android, Windows, linux doesn't matter.. in my opinion everything is comprised, I mean cmon, Tor was made by the CIA. Even if the software is securez let's say you have a super autistic Linux distro and some Tor variant and vpn, you can stilk be f*cked by the hardware backdoors installed there since the manufacturing process
1984 is our reality, because we choose it to be like that for comfort and apathy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry for the off topic post but...
Kravchenko, Dragovich, Steiner... THESE MEN MUST DIE!
also,
do you have anything the confirms the bold part? AFAIK, tor was made by US Navy, that doesn't mean its not a secure protocol. (which you seem to be implying, by saying thar it's made by CIA)

Don't worry, i can feel your temp while you're typing, instead of giving just one simple clear answer regarding any post here, you're just talk about my English :laugh: and since the temp was that high you even failed to quote the full post, you divided it and just focused on the part which made your temp is high like that (i swear the main purpose of this topic to sell his device and he think he will be in a safe...hahaha!)....pitiful!
See dude...or MR rich man, this's XDA, nothing for Apple, we don't need these topics here, and XDA isn't for selling as one of the rules here is:
7. Do not sell or trade on the forums.
If you wish to advertise a product, simply contact us. We can provide ads but you are not permitted to just post it in the forums. If you do, it will be removed and you're likely to receive a ban.
The buying, selling, trading and / or exchanging of any item is now prohibited on XDA, in any forum or via Private Messages.
If you want to sell your device there's no need for this propaganda, a new thread and security major....selling a device is much easier than that
So, thread against the rules, and the contains can easily tells that you don't know anything regarding what's going around you...privacy? :laugh:
Just for reminding:
RaiderWill said:
This is my year to upgrade from the XRN5... ($100.00) if anyone wants it (P.S. me) and I think I may have to switch camps ( Ugh! ) for the security alone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RaiderWill said:
P.S.
You're Welcomed To This Now 2 Generation Old XRN5 For $100.00 Bucks.. Just P.M. Me... It's All Yours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RaiderWill said:
A Device That is now 2 Generations Old..... That's Worth $100.00 USD... And "He" who *THINKS HE WILL BE SAFE* and is about to drop $1,000.00 USD on his next device.. ( Thanks To Hard Work And Saving ) needs to plead with the community to purchase a 2017 phone...
Yeah.... Poor Me. :victory:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.

I'm Sorry What? Are You Trying To Say ???
rocker00 said:
Don't worry, i can feel your temp while you're typing, instead of giving just one simple clear answer regarding any post here, you're just talk about my English :laugh: and since the temp was that high just focused on the part which made your temp is high like that (i swear the main purpose of this topic to sell his device and he think he will be in a safe...hahaha!)....pitiful!
See dude...or MR rich man, this's XDA
If you wish to advertise a product, simply contact us. We can provide ads but you are not permitted to just post it in the forums. If you do, it will be removed and you're likely to receive a ban.
The buying, selling, trading and / or exchanging of any item is now prohibited on XDA, in any forum or via Private Messages.
If you want to sell your device there's no need for this propaganda,
So, can easily tells that you don't know anything regarding what's going around you...privacy? :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I Eh... Don't Speak This Form Of English..
So... As A "Rich Man That Needs To Sell His Device.. ( Huh?? )" I'll Just Leave This Comment Alone. :victory:
Anyway Back On Topic..
Just The Facts... This Article Pretty Much Sums It Up Succinctly:
Here’s a look at the Android operating system.
Android operating system
Popularity: The Android operating system is hugely popular. This means that developers are constantly building new apps designed to run on the system. That’s good for users ... mostly. The problem comes when hackers create apps designed to infect your mobile devices. There is an app review process for Google Play. Unfortunately, the process is far less stringent than what developers face when adding apps to Apple’s App Store. It's easier, then, for malicious apps to sneak onto the Google Play store and easier for users to accidentally install one. One of the main issues is that the end user can go into a Android device and enable the installation of software from Unknown Sources. This means that you can install software on the Android device that does not come from the Google PlayStore. The software — or APK, as it’s called — can be downloaded and installed from a website bypassing the Google PlayStore review.
Open source: Android owners can modify the source code of their Android devices. This appeals to users who want the flexibility to change the way their mobile devices run. But it can also make Android devices vulnerable to attacks. When altering their device’s source code, users could accidentally leave an opening for cybercriminals.
Fragmented: Unlike the iOS operating system that only runs on Apple-branded products, the Android operating system runs on mobile devices manufactured by a host of companies. Some companies might provide hardware that is more secure than others. Moreover, the manufacturer of the device can use a custom ROM or base operating system that has software installed that cannot be easily removed or analyzed for malicious intent.
Apple’s iOS
Here’s a look at the Apple’s iOS.
More stringent controls: It’s more difficult for developers to get apps into the App Store. That’s because the review process is more stringent. Because of this, it’s less likely for a malicious app to sneak into Apple’s store.
Less flexibility: Apple doesn’t allow the owners of its devices to modify its iOS operating system or custom ROMs to be loaded on their devices. That makes the system more secure since Apple controls the complete experience. This doesn’t stop some owners from “jailbreaking” their Apple mobile devices, modifying their source code. Jailbreaking opens new capabilities on the devices — such as changing digital-assistant Siri’s voice, for instance. Be careful if you do this: Apple won’t provide support to such devices.
A less tempting target: Because the iOS operating system powers fewer mobile devices, hackers don’t target the system as often. This makes sense: Hackers and cybercriminals can ensure more victims if they focus more of their attacks on the more popular Android operating system.
Does Any Of This Matter? That's For A Particular Android User To Decide..
My job is to continue to enlighten the community.. and help those that may not be as well informed as others..
This Thread Does Just That.
Sorry if the thoght of Android being 2nd fiddle to Apple ... or the thought of the 5 Pro not being a current event device anymore stings so much to so many.. to attack this thread that was simply created in an attempt to enlighten and solicit discussion ..
It NEVER was an "Apple vs Android" cage match..
Moving On..... :victory:

RaiderWill said:
I Eh... Don't Speak This Form Of English..
So... As A "Rich Man That Needs To Sell His Device.. ( Huh?? )" I'll Just Leave This Comment Alone. :victory:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Something isn't right at all!
Are you sure that you are a normal person?
Do you really think that you're smarter than anyone here by dividing and cutting the posts, like we are all blind!
The rich man were and still talking about Apple and he will pay 1000$ and can't sell his device with 100$, and now in his signature the RN7 is the real deal!!!!
What's going on here? Maybe there's a secret model only for your country calls RN7 iOS Zimbabwe edition?
The rich man who don't sell his device and at the same time he's trying to sell his device here and after he was about to pay 1000$ now he don't even have about 60_70$ to buy the secret model of the RN7 which is the real real upgrade from the RN5?
Since you looks retarded and clearly something isn't right this will be my last post here.
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.Bertrand Russell.
Have you ever seen such a beautiful and real quote like that? i think this is the best quote which can describes you and this situation in general

RaiderWill said:
I Eh... Don't Speak This Form Of English..
So... As A "Rich Man That Needs To Sell His Device.. ( Huh?? )" I'll Just Leave This Comment Alone. :victory:
Anyway Back On Topic..
Just The Facts... This Article Pretty Much Sums It Up Succinctly:
Here’s a look at the Android operating system.
Android operating system
Popularity: The Android operating system is hugely popular. This means that developers are constantly building new apps designed to run on the system. That’s good for users ... mostly. The problem comes when hackers create apps designed to infect your mobile devices. There is an app review process for Google Play. Unfortunately, the process is far less stringent than what developers face when adding apps to Apple’s App Store. It's easier, then, for malicious apps to sneak onto the Google Play store and easier for users to accidentally install one. One of the main issues is that the end user can go into a Android device and enable the installation of software from Unknown Sources. This means that you can install software on the Android device that does not come from the Google PlayStore. The software — or APK, as it’s called — can be downloaded and installed from a website bypassing the Google PlayStore review.
Open source: Android owners can modify the source code of their Android devices. This appeals to users who want the flexibility to change the way their mobile devices run. But it can also make Android devices vulnerable to attacks. When altering their device’s source code, users could accidentally leave an opening for cybercriminals.
Fragmented: Unlike the iOS operating system that only runs on Apple-branded products, the Android operating system runs on mobile devices manufactured by a host of companies. Some companies might provide hardware that is more secure than others. Moreover, the manufacturer of the device can use a custom ROM or base operating system that has software installed that cannot be easily removed or analyzed for malicious intent.
Apple’s iOS
Here’s a look at the Apple’s iOS.
More stringent controls: It’s more difficult for developers to get apps into the App Store. That’s because the review process is more stringent. Because of this, it’s less likely for a malicious app to sneak into Apple’s store.
Less flexibility: Apple doesn’t allow the owners of its devices to modify its iOS operating system or custom ROMs to be loaded on their devices. That makes the system more secure since Apple controls the complete experience. This doesn’t stop some owners from “jailbreaking” their Apple mobile devices, modifying their source code. Jailbreaking opens new capabilities on the devices — such as changing digital-assistant Siri’s voice, for instance. Be careful if you do this: Apple won’t provide support to such devices.
A less tempting target: Because the iOS operating system powers fewer mobile devices, hackers don’t target the system as often. This makes sense: Hackers and cybercriminals can ensure more victims if they focus more of their attacks on the more popular Android operating system.
Does Any Of This Matter? That's For A Particular Android User To Decide..
My job is to continue to enlighten the community.. and help those that may not be as well informed as others..
This Thread Does Just That.
Sorry if the thoght of Android being 2nd fiddle to Apple ... or the thought of the 5 Pro not being a current event device anymore stings so much to so many.. to attack this thread that was simply created in an attempt to enlighten and solicit discussion ..
It NEVER was an "Apple vs Android" cage match..
Moving On..... :victory:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love to use MicroSD Cards and using normal Headphones without adapter and no bluetooth thrash and copying files on my phone without extra bloat software on my PC. All things that are only possible with Android. I don't like super strict systems.

BTW that CNET piece was paid for by Apple

freedom means you can do anything with your stuff :laugh:

Database Info

welcome