1st off, My house is an android powered house and I love the platform. It is only after months of being around my girlfriend and her family as they used android, that I started to really put a finer point on why so many people prefer other OS's (yes i understand Android is grabbing up market share like crazy). this is my thoughts after watching people I know use and leave android, use and struggle with android, and use and love android.
1st off, a list of the things that aren't google fault per say, but pit falls due to there lack of control over the final product.
#1) battery life. Due to varying hardware design and the freedom to do as you please to the OS, manufactures have made some phones with really bad battery life. this coupled with the constant updating a android device can do for any apps and the increase in popularity of cloud service, android ends up with wildly varying battery life from device to device.
#2) Consistency. If someone had a Verizon "droid", they could be using a Sense UI, a moto blur UI, or vanilla android. That's just in that one "brand of phone" alone. People dont adapt well to tech if they aren't big tech fans.
#3 quality of hardware, and I'm not talking about specs. Most consumers only judge the internals on how smooth the final product is. No, I'm talking about, build materials and the screen. There is some junk out there (allot of them have great internals). some of these phones are built like toys with race car parts inside them.
Now for where google is falling short.
#1 marketing. This is amazing to me that an Advertising company would fall short here but they do. Google ads focus on strange things like the ability to unlock your bootloader. Most people have no idea what this means and why they should care. They probably shouldn't care since they will never hack there phones.
also, every time Apple comes out with an "I" product ad, they are doing a real good job of showing how there "new feature" will make your life more fun and allot easier. The funny thing is, they are almost always features that android already had.
This is one of the things I really started to notice as I was surrounded by the non tech savvy android users. I would say, "funny, android already does that, has for a while now". My girlfriend would then ask, "does my phone do that?". Wow Google, you should be the master and telling people about all the selling points of your product.
#2 ease of use. This one may also be an issue with the carriers but I am going to put it in this section. One of the things I again noticed as I helped my girlfriend master here Nexus S 4G was, weird quirks that are not even a stumbling block to a Tech savvy user but almost a deal breaker to the average consumer.
Example: when my girlfriend 1st got here nexus, she hated it, couldn't believe I recommended it. One of her issues that stuck in my mind was the SMS limit. She hated that the SMS would cap her before she was done texing a message. She didnt care if it sent as two messages but she wanted to be able to type one continues message and then send it, letting the software sort it out. So I said, no problem, my phone doesn't do that (galaxy nexus) so there must be a deep setting to control this. As it turns out there wasn't, at least I couldn't find it. So again, I said no problem and down loaded handsent witch fixed the problem and she loved the easy theming. Well along came here ICS update that I had been raving about and her phone started crashing. Turns out handsent was the reason. Again, I said, no problem and downloaded Go SMS witch she loves even more.
That's just one example, in the mean time, 4 people in her family have switched from android to I Phones and don't regret it. I feel that one of them was mainly due to the hardware they chose and the rest is because they didn't have the live in tech help that my girlfriend has ( don't mean that to sound arrogant). My girlfriend loves her phone partly because I fix each issue as it arises and inform her of cool features.
Conclusion: I really think that the the lack of consistency is the other side of the open source double edged sword. this shows it self in software and hardware. It can be as small as the order in witch the bottom buttons appear, and as big as the Sense UI that changes everything a little bit. I also feel that no one besides Verizon in the early days, is really advertising Android well. Even Verizon doesn't do as good of a job showing you how much the phones can do and why you should want these features as Apple does.
Oddly I aggree with most of that, esp the marketing, you know I just found out just how good google voice was the other day... I have had android phones now for 3 years... Lol.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
funny you should bring up google voice. That was one of the things that I was thinking about when it comes to advertising short comings. It has been a great feature and a solid performer and now with Jellybean, it has every function of Siri, with the performance level I have come to expect from Google voice.
google needs to talk about it in plain English with every day examples of implementation
All of those faults/cons/criticisms can be attributed to just about any device/thing/object/concept that endorses an open-ended nature. The one off the top of my head that fits the OP's bill nearly word for word is Windows (technically Windows is closed-source). The Playstation 3 is a similar concept too. It's got all the nice bells and tech but its advertising sucks.
Google doesn't need to do any advertising, but rather the respective manufacturers. They're the ones that should be selling what Android does for their phones and why people should choose their phones over the others. If there are feature discrepancies from one phone to the other, the manufacturers should work to get those features implemented, that's the real strength of open-source software. It helps a lot if a manufacturer works together with their modding community to make it happen, which in turns makes your product/device more competitive and play on that.
Google caters to the developers because that's what Google is: a developer. That's why Google has their own line of phones: Nexus. Their phones are catered to the developers and well...us XDA'ers. They do a good job at advertising where it matters: recent one being their own conference just a week ago. If it reassures the OP: the rumor that Google plans to expand the Nexus line to more manufacturers is a good thing for us XDAers and friends of XDAers.
alpha-niner64 said:
All of those faults/cons/criticisms can be attributed to just about any device/thing/object/concept that endorses an open-ended nature. The one off the top of my head that fits the OP's bill nearly word for word is Windows (technically Windows is closed-source). The Playstation 3 is a similar concept too. It's got all the nice bells and tech but its advertising sucks.
Google doesn't need to do any advertising, but rather the respective manufacturers. They're the ones that should be selling what Android does for their phones and why people should choose their phones over the others. If there are feature discrepancies from one phone to the other, the manufacturers should work to get those features implemented, that's the real strength of open-source software. It helps a lot if a manufacturer works together with their modding community to make it happen, which in turns makes your product/device more competitive and play on that.
Google caters to the developers because that's what Google is: a developer. That's why Google has their own line of phones: Nexus. Their phones are catered to the developers and well...us XDA'ers. They do a good job at advertising where it matters: recent one being their own conference just a week ago.
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1st off, other companies doing it too, its not a reason to ignore said issue. Also, windows is taking steps to correct the hardware issue and make there OS consistent (for example)
If you think google doesn't "have to" advertise, I guess your right but even companies like 3M who sells many products to OEM's that then sell to the end user (like google) advertise to further there brand and promote the use of there products by OEM's. Also, 3M knows more about the products than any one OEM that uses there products, not to mention, the OEM's that use 3M consider 3M to be one of the reasons there product is good, and will not focus on key points of the 3M element.
Also, look at gorilla glass from corning, another product that isn't sold direct to the end user. They do there own advertising to promote there product and increase brand recognition to better sell there product.
I also disagree that google is a developer selling to developers only. Google nexus 7 is a perfect example of that. The nexus 7 tab is meant to further the "play store" brand, and is being sold at a vary low price point in the hopes that play store sales will make up for it just like the Kindle. I also don't think the Galaxy Nexus is a "developer device" at least, not exclusively.
So does google have to, no. Should they want to, yes.
What would you have Google advertise about that other companies should be doing in their stead? Google has brand recognition already and it's pretty clear by Google I/O that their intended audience isn't the Apple crowd: so who else would there be to advertise to? If the Apple crowd is whom you're referring to: that should be Samsung, HTC, Sony's job to do. What can Google do to help those manufacturers sell their features to the consumer that those companies aren't already doing themselves?
This is where we are going to disagree. Google has brand recognition but Android has far less. Verizon, did the best job and now the "droid" brand has more recognition than "android", many times "droid" is used and the general brand for all android by consumers. I don't think Google should depend on hardware companies to advertise there product. Even windows advertises there software. The OEM's should ALSO advertise but not ONLY advertise.
Advertising that the Galaxy nexus has a "unlockable" boot loader is un needed and doesnt further the brand. 98% of the people who want a unlocked boot loader, knew the galaxy nexus had one before the ad hit the streets.
The fact that apple fans are oviusly not googles target market is or should be false (proven by samsung). Google should be polishing there OS so that more of apple users would be interested. Google will not be able to continue on for ever just appealing to a small market such as the XDA community. OEM's will abandon them if that was the case. Look at the OEM's and there behavior, they are not interested in selling phones to the developer community only, otherwise Motorola would not lock there phones down as they did, or at least they would offer developers unlock tools like HTC has done. HTC is a little more "developer marketed" but lets be real, they still drag there feet when ever they can or feel pressure from the big 3.
That leads me to the Carrier's, they do not want to sell phones marketed to developers that are easily hacked and modded. they want control. Google should want to sell the most units they can within reason. This means helping the developer community with there goals and helping the OEM's and Carrier's with there's. Google should be (and I think they are) trying to make android more marketable to the masses and then lead that marketing campaign by example.
Its like that old saying, "alone with your principles". You can stand here and say that the OEM's should do all the advertising but it doesn't change the fact that they aren't doing what needs to be done and google need to sell product that is dependent on the platform. They are an advertising company so do they sit back and hope HTC and Samsung start talking more about there product and doing more to show how it will improve our lives or should they step in and show the OEM's how its done, at the same time increasing the value of there products
I think a lot of your issues are going to be solved for the mainstream with more Nexus devices rolling out. The other great thing is that as more people start looking at Nexus flexibility and timely updates the more other OEMs will be forced to follow suit if they want to stay viable. It seems Sony and to some extent HTC and Samsung are pretty serious about both the hardware and update side of things so anyone else will just have to play catch-up.
As a whole though some of these things will continue to persist. One of the draws of Android devices is having smartphone abilities without ridiculous cost. There will always be people who want the goodies but don't have a lot of extra funds and those devices will simply be a little behind the curve. With the optimizations coming via Jellybean though OEMs won't have the excuse of claiming that newer versions are too complex for older phones and I would hope that they continue to push updates for a reasonable period.
Stupid post. Why? Because you have no clue what android is. Android is an open source operating system. OEM's take android, and just so you know, they don't need google's consent, and manipulate it the way they want to put on their hardware. Google has no say in what they do to it, how they arrange their buttons, or the UI that they add to it. So your post is more directed at OEM's than google.
lowandbehold said:
Stupid post. Why? Because you have no clue what android is. Android is an open source operating system. OEM's take android, and just so you know, they don't need google's consent, and manipulate it the way they want to put on their hardware. Google has no say in what they do to it, how they arrange their buttons, or the UI that they add to it. So your post is more directed at OEM's than google.
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if you read my post you would have seen I acknowledge that some of these issues are a side effect of open source. They do in fact charge for the "gaps" suite. all hardware sold with gaps on it has paid licensing to Google.
dB Zac said:
if you read my post you would have seen I acknowledge that some of these issues are a side effect of open source. They do in fact charge for the "gaps" suite. all hardware sold with gaps on it has paid licensing to Google.
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So? Google gets no say in how they manipulate the OS. I mean seriously...battery life? How the f*** could that be a google issue?
I spesificly said that wasn't Google's fault, but a short coming of open source
Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk 2
dB Zac said:
I spesificly said that wasn't Google's fault, but a short coming of open source
Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like you need an Iphone..
lowandbehold said:
Sounds like you need an Iphone..
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Click to collapse
So I have to love it and ignore any and all short coming or be crusified? Ok sounds like a page from apple fanboyism
here, since you will not read the whole thing before commenting, i will post the part you seemed to miss
dB Zac said:
1st off, a list of the things that aren't google fault per say, but pit falls due to there lack of control over the final product.
#1) battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dB Zac said:
1st off, My house is an android powered house and I love the platform. It is only after months of being around my girlfriend and her family as they used android, that I started to really put a finer point on why so many people prefer other OS's (yes i understand Android is grabbing up market share like crazy). this is my thoughts after watching people I know use and leave android, use and struggle with android, and use and love android.
1st off, a list of the things that aren't google fault per say, but pit falls due to there lack of control over the final product.
#1) battery life. Due to varying hardware design and the freedom to do as you please to the OS, manufactures have made some phones with really bad battery life. this coupled with the constant updating a android device can do for any apps and the increase in popularity of cloud service, android ends up with wildly varying battery life from device to device.
#2) Consistency. If someone had a Verizon "droid", they could be using a Sense UI, a moto blur UI, or vanilla android. That's just in that one "brand of phone" alone. People dont adapt well to tech if they aren't big tech fans.
#3 quality of hardware, and I'm not talking about specs. Most consumers only judge the internals on how smooth the final product is. No, I'm talking about, build materials and the screen. There is some junk out there (allot of them have great internals). some of these phones are built like toys with race car parts inside them.
Now for where google is falling short.
#1 marketing. This is amazing to me that an Advertising company would fall short here but they do. Google ads focus on strange things like the ability to unlock your bootloader. Most people have no idea what this means and why they should care. They probably shouldn't care since they will never hack there phones.
also, every time Apple comes out with an "I" product ad, they are doing a real good job of showing how there "new feature" will make your life more fun and allot easier. The funny thing is, they are almost always features that android already had.
This is one of the things I really started to notice as I was surrounded by the non tech savvy android users. I would say, "funny, android already does that, has for a while now". My girlfriend would then ask, "does my phone do that?". Wow Google, you should be the master and telling people about all the selling points of your product.
#2 ease of use. This one may also be an issue with the carriers but I am going to put it in this section. One of the things I again noticed as I helped my girlfriend master here Nexus S 4G was, weird quirks that are not even a stumbling block to a Tech savvy user but almost a deal breaker to the average consumer.
Example: when my girlfriend 1st got here nexus, she hated it, couldn't believe I recommended it. One of her issues that stuck in my mind was the SMS limit. She hated that the SMS would cap her before she was done texing a message. She didnt care if it sent as two messages but she wanted to be able to type one continues message and then send it, letting the software sort it out. So I said, no problem, my phone doesn't do that (galaxy nexus) so there must be a deep setting to control this. As it turns out there wasn't, at least I couldn't find it. So again, I said no problem and down loaded handsent witch fixed the problem and she loved the easy theming. Well along came here ICS update that I had been raving about and her phone started crashing. Turns out handsent was the reason. Again, I said, no problem and downloaded Go SMS witch she loves even more.
That's just one example, in the mean time, 4 people in her family have switched from android to I Phones and don't regret it. I feel that one of them was mainly due to the hardware they chose and the rest is because they didn't have the live in tech help that my girlfriend has ( don't mean that to sound arrogant). My girlfriend loves her phone partly because I fix each issue as it arises and inform her of cool features.
Conclusion: I really think that the the lack of consistency is the other side of the open source double edged sword. this shows it self in software and hardware. It can be as small as the order in witch the bottom buttons appear, and as big as the Sense UI that changes everything a little bit. I also feel that no one besides Verizon in the early days, is really advertising Android well. Even Verizon doesn't do as good of a job showing you how much the phones can do and why you should want these features as Apple does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok let me help you out.
#2: Actually, Droid branding is owned by motorola, therefore they will only be using blur UI.
Marketing: Google is not in the business of advertising an OEM's phone. That is up to the OEM and the OEM only.
Ease of use: Apple owns a patent that breaks up the long text AFTER it is typed. Therefore, it would be illegal for Android to use it. Example invalid.
Conclusion: Verizon sucks.
You really did not point out 1 thing that google has control over in your whole post.
lowandbehold said:
Stupid post. Why? Because you have no clue what android is. Android is an open source operating system. OEM's take android, and just so you know, they don't need google's consent, and manipulate it the way they want to put on their hardware. Google has no say in what they do to it, how they arrange their buttons, or the UI that they add to it. So your post is more directed at OEM's than google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/03/14/android-isnt-really-open-its-just-less-closed-than-apple/
Google only cares about advertising (and like to snoop in on what you do, say, what you buy, where you shop, visit, etc... ) of course.
But they do have pretty good control over Android.
lowandbehold said:
Ok let me help you out.
#2: Actually, Droid branding is owned by motorola, therefore they will only be using blur UI.
Marketing: Google is not in the business of advertising an OEM's phone. That is up to the OEM and the OEM only.
Ease of use: Apple owns a patent that breaks up the long text AFTER it is typed. Therefore, it would be illegal for Android to use it. Example invalid.
Conclusion: Verizon sucks.
You really did not point out 1 thing that google has control over in your whole post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1st off, "droid" always running blur was not the point and incorrect. Verizon owns the "droid" name, as it is licensed to them by Lucus Industries. hence the HTC phones under that same brand name. I was commenting on the superior advertizing and Branding that Verizon did. The Droid 1 was a great vanilla phone that did well in a large part, due to advertizing. The verizon campain made "droid" a household name, more so than "Android".
2nd google can advertise features and the OS without advertising a specifice peice of hardware, windows does it all the time. Also, since google does have Google branded harware (nexus), they are in the hardware biz and should advertize aas such.
"Verizon sucks" based on what I can only emagin was your reasoning for this statement, I'm sure all major cariers "suck, not really the point here. Out of all the cariers, Verizon, furthered the android the most in the last 3 years out of anyone. Only now is Samsung beging to be the leader in promoting the android platform.
I agree with you on this, anyone who ask me what phone to get, i personally recommend iPhone UNLESS the guy knows his stuff, i myself LOVE android, been using it for 3 years now but i am software developer and very much familiar with kernels and bootloaders and and and , someone was aksing me the other day, since Android has much bigger marketshare, why everything comes out for iPhone first?
answer is simple, as a developer making things for iPhone is sooooo much easier, you only have "ONE" screen dimension to worry about, you only got 3-4 phones to worry about which 90% of them are similar, now compare this with android phones !!!
and last as everyone mentioned is advertising, personally i think google and all manufacturers do a HORRIBLE job promoting , remember when iCloud came out? nothing new really, just another DropBox, but Apple made such a big deal about it, everyone was AMAZED !!! same with siri, and so many other things,
Personally i think iPhone WORKS, its great for people who dont think outside the box, they want something that WORKS and thats it, they like to be TOLD what to do, how to use your phone , and they follow it.
Android is for thone who like to explore, install custom ROMs , play with OC/UV , etc.
Raul77 said:
remember when iCloud came out? nothing new really, just another DropBox, but Apple made such a big deal about it, everyone was AMAZED !!! same with siri, and so many other things
thats another real good example of, others were 1st but Apple advertizes better
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I actually came from a blackberry, where in convention they make and market their devices.
When I switched to android now essentially Samsung was giving me their flavour of what they call android through Touchwiz and I really hated it.
Google should really take sometime to ensure manufacturers aren't dumbing down the platform for consumers and give users a clear overview of how it can serve them. Which is exactly what Google does with its Nexus.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
Related
Found this interesting Article on Fudzilla regarding how Android could be killed off by the suppliers of the phones. Figured I would share
http://www.fudzilla.com/mobiles/item/21611-android-could-be-killed-off-by-suppliers
Nice read but those publishers are idiots. The only way android will be killed of is if apple takes over the world and burns down google
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
I pretty much summed up the article that if, Google doesn't take tighter control of how the suppliers are updating the phones, and if Google themselves do not ease up on releasing updates, then it might drive people away from Android phones due to the lack of support.
Twoddle.
At last report (that I know of), 300,000 people a day were activating new Android phones. I'm gonna guess here, but I reckon about 90% of those people don't give a monkeys about updated ROMs and new features. They don't understand enough about their phones to care. (Not an insult - just a statement.)
They'll keep their phone for the next 12/18/24 months and then get a nice new shiny one with the same OS cos it'll remember their contacts and they can download the same apps again.
Anyone that's in the other 10% know exactly how to modify the phone to suit their needs, and will only buy another phone because of the hardware. They know full well they can put whatever OS and apps on there they want.
For every bunch of people that leave Android to go iPhone, there'll be an equally sized bunch of people that leave iPhone to go Android. Change the OS names in that last sentence for other OSs to complete the story.
Analysts don't know squat. They're paid to make predictions that are less founded in reality than astrology. Besides, you can't be an analyst without anal.
Well said and very true
johncmolyneux said:
Twoddle.
At last report (that I know of), 300,000 people a day were activating new Android phones. I'm gonna guess here, but I reckon about 90% of those people don't give a monkeys about updated ROMs and new features. They don't understand enough about their phones to care. (Not an insult - just a statement.)
They'll keep their phone for the next 12/18/24 months and then get a nice new shiny one with the same OS cos it'll remember their contacts and they can download the same apps again.
Anyone that's in the other 10% know exactly how to modify the phone to suit their needs, and will only buy another phone because of the hardware. They know full well they can put whatever OS and apps on there they want.
For every bunch of people that leave Android to go iPhone, there'll be an equally sized bunch of people that leave iPhone to go Android. Change the OS names in that last sentence for other OSs to complete the story.
Analysts don't know squat. They're paid to make predictions that are less founded in reality than astrology. Besides, you can't be an analyst without anal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
A majority of customers don't care about updating the firmware of the phone. If it works, they won't complain. If it doesn't work, they'll bring it back for a warranty repair or simply get a new phone.
johncmolyneux said:
Twoddle.
At last report (that I know of), 300,000 people a day were activating new Android phones. I'm gonna guess here, but I reckon about 90% of those people don't give a monkeys about updated ROMs and new features. They don't understand enough about their phones to care. (Not an insult - just a statement.)
They'll keep their phone for the next 12/18/24 months and then get a nice new shiny one with the same OS cos it'll remember their contacts and they can download the same apps again.
Anyone that's in the other 10% know exactly how to modify the phone to suit their needs, and will only buy another phone because of the hardware. They know full well they can put whatever OS and apps on there they want.
For every bunch of people that leave Android to go iPhone, there'll be an equally sized bunch of people that leave iPhone to go Android. Change the OS names in that last sentence for other OSs to complete the story.
Analysts don't know squat. They're paid to make predictions that are less founded in reality than astrology. Besides, you can't be an analyst without anal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely right.
On the other hand, i'm right outside that 10% bunch, but i'm just 17 and if i **** up my phone it won't be so good for me. I rooted, but i guess i am dumb enough not to know terminals and flashing and pushing stuff here and there
Anyhow- Android won't be killed. That's like when they said Linux was to be killed off in the early 2000's because Windows machines were supplied with an X amount of memory (about a 100mb extra than those running a distro)
Won't happen I mean come on what you think is the alternative? They want to pay the license? What happens if upgrade comes? who you think will pick up RIM? lol they are dead who else iOS? Sorry thats for iPanzy and who use that come on now, only other alternative is WM.
Also who wants to fight big Google? You think they will let it go easy? They can buy the ****ing company out and change the decision if they cared to just to send single message. Also then you have the user who can and is doing what they want hence you are on XDA? F the carrier support thats like saying you are bound to software hence your PC?
But the biggest problem with mobile world is the hardware which is not actually openly shared as opposed to computing world, where one can actually code the driver for support. BTW voddles your last sentence didn't make sense what so ever take it from someone who been using Slackware since it was created.
I for myself isn't that impressed of Android anymore.
Having used an X10 Mini since May 2010 (now 2.1 and some extra updates)
Wanted the Mini for the Android Hype, Spotify music streaming and smallness.
Love the phone still but getting more and more angered of lack of decent software/apps
Hate all the Android keyboards(not because of it's tiny on a 2.6" screen) but the lack of arrow keys and stupidity behavior (like unable to mark text and enter new).
Search function is limited too (In Market and others) It's impossible to editing an old search, you have to enter everything again.
Also getting more and more irritated on the Google in general.
Wanna have a new non Win, IOS, Bada, Android or Nokia stuff. Phone OS. Now.
Will not follow your guys inte 2.2 or 2.3
Journalism just seems to go down the toilet in the highly competitive virtual world of the internet.
"While HTC appears to be ahead of the game at getting new updates to uses, some outfits, particularly Motorola are developing a jolly bad name for themselves. You could upgrade yourself but he problem is getting your paws on unlocked boot loaders. Motorola's upcoming phones have locked bootloaders."
Locked bootloaders have nothing to do with official updates.
"However it looks to us like Google is going to need to put its foot down fast before the suppliers start killing off its operating system. The last thing people want is to get an Android phone and find it can't do something that has been advertised because some phone maker could not be bothered upgrading."
Put its foot down on a free OS? Ads go out advertising that all Android phones support roms? That all Android phone are upgradeable to the latest, greatest Android OS?
The whole article looks to be written by someone attempting to be sensational but really has no clue.
I remember when Android was new and you had all these manufacturers "skinning" Android. I was worried that a user may confuse a skin with the primary OS and incorrectly give credit or blame to that skin. People seem to love Sense UI and hate Motoblur. You impression of Android could vary depending on if you used an HTC vs a Motorola. That clearly did not happen.
Blåburk said:
I for myself isn't that impressed of Android anymore.
Having used an X10 Mini since May 2010 (now 2.1 and some extra updates)
Wanted the Mini for the Android Hype, Spotify music streaming and smallness.
Love the phone still but getting more and more angered of lack of decent software/apps
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Click to collapse
'Lack of decent apps'?
Know why there seems to be a lack here?
You live in Sweden.
Last.fm doesn't work, Goggles doesn't work, Quickoffice doesn't work, trillian is probably locked out too...
Why didn't you get a netbook anyway?
Mine cost the same as the x10 mini did in May 2010.
Hate all the Android keyboards(not because of it's tiny on a 2.6" screen) but the lack of arrow keys and stupidity behavior (like unable to mark text and enter new).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that's what you wanted when you got the phone, why didn't you turn it in right away?
Yeah, they have arrow keys - on the ones with a sliding keyboard. Idiot.
Also getting more and more irritated on the Google in general.
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Click to collapse
'The Google'? What does Google have to do with your Sony Ericsson phone?
Never gonna happen.
ksizzle9 said:
Nice read but those publishers are idiots. The only way android will be killed of is if apple takes over the world and burns down google
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Everything said here is somewhat true and somewhat false. We all have our opinions, we all have different expectations from our phones...
What i don't understand is, and i say this from a developer perspective, why would any mobile device manufacturer, like Sony, lock out their devices? Same goes for Apple etc etc
I mean, i think far more ppl would actually buy their products if they know that they have a open device and that it can run on all carriers. I mean, i actually bought my 1st iPhone just because of the fact that someone made an unlock tool so u could use it outside of AT&T networks...
As for the OS side, Android wont die ofc, and i believe its a good thing that Google publishes updates to it so fast. This means they are really dedicated to the project and that they really care for developers so they can make much better apps, with more features and capabilities.
voddles said:
'Lack of decent apps'?
Know why there seems to be a lack here?
You live in Sweden.
Last.fm doesn't work, Goggles doesn't work, Quickoffice doesn't work, trillian is probably locked out too...
Why didn't you get a netbook anyway?
Mine cost the same as the x10 mini did in May 2010.
If that's what you wanted when you got the phone, why didn't you turn it in right away?
Yeah, they have arrow keys - on the ones with a sliding keyboard. Idiot.
'The Google'? What does Google have to do with your Sony Ericsson phone?
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Thanks for sharing your IQ level with the world, hopes you will be able to eat with a spoon sometimes in the future.
Just one remark a phone made by SE but using the Google Android do have a somethings with the Google to do, doesn't it.
The rest of what you wrote is not worth comments.
Sorry for upsetting you
When do you think an android OS for desktops will be created?
Blåburk said:
Thanks for sharing your IQ level with the world, hopes you will be able to eat with a spoon sometimes in the future.
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LOL now thats comedy.
I have to somewhat agree with you about the virtual keyboard. Now coming from HD2 which has the best stock keyboard I have ever seen. The arrow key and able to select via drag is best when you typing but on AOSP the whole idea is retarded. I can still type every fast but not fast as I once was on HD2 then again where is that whole 4.3" out there.
Nice read but those publishers are idiots.
I personally am always going to be sticking with HTC. They usually update most of there phones and even if they dont someone will have rooted it and just made a <insert android version here> rom. Plus even if no one can root it i still love Htc Sense and it looks 100x better than Motoblur or whatever Sony uses.
Blåburk said:
Thanks for sharing your IQ level with the world, hopes you will be able to eat with a spoon sometimes in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now now children... please lighten up, much more important things in this world to be getting upset or to "fight" over... honestly...
a subs0nic G2 bass cann0n blast0id via andr0id
so true.....only 10% of peopel like us know what we really want to do with our phones....
This is just a PSA to all you vicious Android fanboys on this forum that hound anyone who asks the question "what phone should I get", especially when one of those options includes an iOS device or a WP7 device.
So let me get this started. I love Android. But Android is not perfect. Take a deep breath, and say it with me again, out loud.
"Android is not perfect." Was that too hard? If so the following explanation is for you.
Ever since Android first came out, people were hailing it as the iPhone killer. But in reality? It's really not. It may be getting there, and may be getting there quickly, but that's not that point.
It may be a surprise to many of you, but there are actually other human beings outside of XDA that use smartphones. Human beings that are not interested in rooting their phones or spending a lot of time completely customizing them or pushing them to the limit. These human beings want their phones to work when they need them, and that's all. Whether these phones are iOS, Android, or Windows Mobile/7 phones is completely irrelevant to them.
Except, it actually is. But see, not in the way most of you seem to think it is.
People shop for phones nowadays because the have an end they need to reach and they need the means to get to that end. Whether it's something as simple as checking an email message or quenching a thirst to play a game, they take into consideration what is the quickest, most hassle-free way to do this. This requirement is not because they are stupid. Most XDA users seem to think that anyone off XDA just buys iPhones because they are uneducated about "the true power of Android" and all that jazz. Guess what? That's not the case.
Yes. Here at XDA, we can do a lot with our phones. We root them, we build custom ROMs for them, we use features that were locked before, or get versions of our OS that aren't out yet.
But please be damn sure you understand that we are the minority. We will always be the minority. Your experience here doesn't define the mobile landscape, it only improves your personal experience with your phone. Just because you took a few hours to root your phone, find the perfect custom ROM, and settle down with it doesn't make the average Joe who just bought an iPhone (because it does what he wants easily and has all the apps he likes) a stupid user.
Here is the meat of this newsflash; Android wouldn't be here if it wasn't for iOS. (Going further, iOS wouldn't be there without Windows Mobile, and etc etc etc until we reached the very first man who asked 'why can't I see my email from my phone'). Apple took a chance on what people wanted, and realized they had something. They built an OS that was based on the ideals of OS X; simple, straight-forward, good looking, and well received. And so began the App and Data revolution. All of a sudden, the idea of having mobile data became real. These wonderful delicious little things called "apps" made the mobile world much more exciting than it had even been before. And so Apple hit a goldmine, and the mobile landscape had been painted. These apps were well-designed, fun, informative, useful, and people liked them so much, they started to buy paid apps. Apple knows how to market to people, and there success showed.
So then. Android.
Android was birthed out of the idea that Google could cash in on this app world. You may think the intentions were noble, with the idea that it was some pipe dream in the same way linux was; completely open mobile platform. After all, if Apple could have the success with a closed system, Google obviously could rock the world with an open one.
But it's not. Android, or at least what most people come to think of as Android these days, is not "open". It's open to phone manufacturers, and carriers, but that's it. It' snot open to the end user. Why else do we have locked down features, closed-source OEM skins that hinder future firmware upgrades? Why else do we have carrier-controlled Market restrictions? Why do some phones not ship with developer tools, or the ability to install from unknown sources?
Let me be frank. I love Android, but Android is a mess. It's a mess of a bunch of wonderful ideas that would have shined like nothing else in the perfect world, but a mess that didn't anticipate a simple fact; businesses like to make money.
The truth of the matter is that we don't have freedom with Android. Every little part of it has a restriction we need to bypass. Do you buy an expensive high end phone, or a cheaper low-end phone? Will you still be able to play those cool games on that low end phone? Will it get software updates? Is it safe from malware? Buying an Android phone has become the same as trying to buy a Windows PC.
It suffers from the same problem that Microsoft does when compared to Apple's line of computers. Apple builds its hardware AND its software, so they interface with complete precision and function. People with iPhones don't need to worry about security updates, or whether their phone will be obsolete. Apple may release a new phone every year, but the point is that those phones are made to last, both in terms of hardware and software. They even went the next step further and made the iPod touch, which gave phone users who weren't ready for smartphones a taste of what it was like.
My Sprint Hero came out on October 11th, 2009. The iPhone 3GS came out in June of the same year. Both were priced around the same amount, but what stands out to me the most when I think back to when I tested both that year? The fact it took Google this long to make an operating system which took ages to mature enough to be used by HTC to make a phone that STILL could not even give me a smooth web browser, something that the very first iPhone was able to do. Games on the Hero sucked in comparison to the 3D games that were playable on the iPhone.
Now then, Android smartphone hardware has advanced to a significant level, but the point of this whole rant is that Google has always been following in Apple's footsteps in the mobile world, and it's going to be that way for some time.
Be a bit humble about the begginings of Android and what it's become, and for f***'s sake, be a bit mature than just saying "LOLOLOL APPLE SUCKS GG GET ANDROID".
Because it's the rest of the world outside of XDA that defines the success of these mobile platforms, because I hate to say this, but you and I are not part of that outside world of mobile phone users, and we never will be.
The truth is, no one can really say what the "perfect" mobile OS is. All we can do is say what works best for us or what we prefer, but when we state it as fact, as though it's not arguable, that's when we become the fanboys that we so dearly hate. Just keep that in mind.
Opinions welcome, fanboyism from either side not wanted at all. Congrats on finishing this post.
Excellent post. Would read again.
Great things said there. I can see a point in it. But still, I don't either see Ios higher as Android since Ios is a mess too. Let me just take this simple statement. Music on a Ipod/Iphone needs to be converted from the computer to the device, you can't random download a song(on the device) from Internet and play it. Same as the file exploring.. if you want to search for a file, you find a file in some folder like: im/af/on/ar/qr, or just some folders which are messy, and the file types are unknown for the computer. All those small things give me the excuse to stay at Windows Mobile. Simply cause we can download music files and play it, simply cause there is great development on it, simply cause it can be customized how we want it.
Cool story bro
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
d12unk13astard said:
Cool story bro
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
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Good job. That must have taken some serious thought to come up with.
This is something I 100% agree with.
When I had a Samsung Moment, I had problems galore with it. Keyboard wouldn't type, horrible support, and the big network lockup. Mind you, a network lockup where you can't call out to anyone is against FCC laws. But just to get some type of damn support for the thing, I almost had to root it. And I'm sorry, but I shouldn't have to depend on an online community for support for a phone when the carrier and manufacturer of the phone should be doing that. What the hell is the point in buying the phone and paying damn near $70 a month if I can't use the damn thing?
Let's also talk about performance of the Moment and how unoptimized it was. The Moment uses the same SoC found in the Iphone 2g, and 3g. The only difference, stock 2g and 3g SoC is 600 mhz, clocked down to about 422 mhz for battery, while the Moment was 800 mhz. Both arm11 cpu cores. The Iphone 2g and 3g despite having almost half the clocked frequency of the Moment, was smoother and had actual hardware support and acceleration. Even this day, Samsung still does not have proper hardware support for the SoC being used in the Moment, Intercept, Transform, Spica, etc etc.
If done right, Android is pretty awesome I'll admit. But if I want a phone to work, I'll get something that actually works.
big advantage of android, but also a weakness:
it works well on many devices, but its not optimised for the spezific hardware of each phone...
gosualex said:
big advantage of android, but also a weakness:
it works well on many devices, but its not optimised for the spezific hardware of each phone...
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Click to collapse
Good understanding
I love android because I love to tinker. Nothing could ever change my mind short of the os aging. I will say this flaws or not I refuse to give apple my money. So it's either wp7 or android.
My words to live buy if I can't hack it I don't want it. Just my 2cents
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium Apps
I would agree iPhones support is a lot longer no network changes added, updates can brick the phones though.
Android need some love. Fragmentation. Networks slow to update. Ui 's being to sluggish to update the phone to higher levels.
All android phones should be aosp no extras from makers or networks.
Love my cm7/miui.us phone but most people would want to flash it or know how to. They would just think might as well get an iPhone.
Just my feelings. I own apple computers. Custom built pcs android phones had iPhones I still use an iPod touch in the kitchen as you can get the best speaker docks for them. Use what works best for the situation.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
Android security warning !!
I think android is the best system, but its very insecure if you let it on stock and don't secure it, root it, get rid of some apps and optimize it.
Did you know that a normal app with all permissions can get all your data?
-gps location
-contacts
-logs
-screenshots
-hidden camerashots
-sms/mms
-emails
-photos
-etc
BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THIS IS FACT !!!
There was a test in germany, where a developer made a app with all the rights to do the things above and send them hidden in the backround to a specified server to that he had access. So he could read and see all the things above and it was even updating immidiatly after a new sms or something came in and the testuser who installed it had no clue at all and was shocked when they told it to her.
The App itself was just making photos with a black censor stripe in the eyes and it seemed that it never could do that, but all the real action is going on in the backround.
By the way, he sayd it was very easy and many apps could do that and most of them really do that.
And what I know, many of you don't know or don't care and spread all your information to some companys that like to have them alot. And they allways want more.
Maybe you should spread this information by quoting this post or linking to it, because many people don't like to be ripped of their information.
Or do you like it, when someone is standing close to you and listens all what you say to your friends, when you have a private conversation ? I think not!
check out my signature also.
and be safe!
edit: i think i should post this as a new thread!
Great post, good read!!
Hard to say any mobile OS is perfect. But the world of mobile OS is developing quickly in recent years.
Haven't played extensively with Android and IOS. Currenly, I still think IOS is more polish. Android definitely have a lot of features and I am looking forward to where they take the OS to in the future. It seems like it's an OS that has a lot of support and has had to "grow up" really rapidly.
I actually agrer with everything in this post. Fact is the best technology in the world is technology that is stable, works, and allows the user to complete what ever task is needed.
Last night it was decided my wife and I are switching to verizon why? Cause the wife wants IOS and I am more partial to android and BB and thats the only carrier that has all 3.
Now to add on what was already said I think google needs to pick one manufacture purchase them then do exactly what apple does marry the hardware amd software together to get rid of what can be a problematic OS simply cause with some manufactures android is worse then on others.
Sent from my SPH-P100 using XDA App
(•.•) said:
I think android is the best system, but its very insecure if you let it on stock and don't secure it, root it, get rid of some apps and optimize it.
Did you know that a normal app with all permissions can get all your data?
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Click to collapse
You give apps on an iphone or WM phone permissions to do these things too right, so this is a more general problem in the new mobile world...
BTW, I like you're post LiquidSolstice, you could almost call it a fact, it's not that the one is better than the other. It's just that they are different and the majority of people likes easy and simple...
I agree with alot of what LS mentions in the first post. My wife is one of those who could really care less about rooting, overclocking, mem management, or even what version of Android she is using for that matter. She just wants to be able to send that text without the keyboard "hicupping", or to make that phone call without the dialer lagging, etc. I like Android, but I don't like Google's.. well let's say "less than kosher" business practices and corporate involvements. I think a big point to remember is that there will always be people like us that get a huge kick out of toying with electronics. For some, it's a hobby, for others, a career. With that being said, there will also always be those doofies that get on sites like this one and annoy the living crap out of you. Everything needs to be taken in stride, and though there are those who appear to be clueless on a subject, always remember that we all have to learn somehow. Knowledge is not obtained through osmosis.
Android feels like a permanent beta. I prefer iOS for simple tasks plusSbsettings is unmatched. WP7 seems more like a feature phone, it doesn't tell you 'I'm smart.'
I mostly agree
I don't think the problem with android is really the fact that more than one company is involved in developing phones for android. The problem is that those companies, (OEMs & carriers) have been given way to much freedom to decide not only what processor & RAM the phone would have but to put their "stamp" on android. I think the blame for that partially falls on Google for not putting a stop to OEMs & carriers putting their bloatware on phones. Google has been asked multiple times to do something about the "fragmentation" issue & they've refused, so ultimately they are partly responsible for the "mess" android has become.
tsaxda said:
I don't think the problem with android is really the fact that more than one company is involved in developing phones for android. The problem is that those companies, (OEMs & carriers) have been given way to much freedom to decide not only what processor & RAM the phone would have but to put their "stamp" on android. I think the blame for that partially falls on Google for not putting a stop to OEMs & carriers putting their bloatware on phones. Google has been asked multiple times to do something about the "fragmentation" issue & they've refused, so ultimately they are partly responsible for the "mess" android has become.
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Click to collapse
Well, carrier "bloat" --I put that in quotes because the current three major skins bring much needed features to Android (whether or not the execution is done well or not is a different argument)-- isn't quite what's killing it, it's the time spent optimizing the hardware for Android.
Android gets slapped on as many devices as possible and then sold as a low end affordable smartphone, and that's the issue, but that's the essence of Android at the same time.
ZeGuitarist said:
Excellent post. Would read again.
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+1 Outstanding post. Completely agree.
MS says Google's Motorola division violates its patents. Looks like MS is angry they didn't get to corner Google in that Nortel deal and is doing an Apple.
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/20...la-s-android-phones-infringe-its-patents.html
MartyLK said:
MS says Google's Motorola division
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That sale went through quick.
I'm sick of lawsuits...
We seriously need some patent reform...
"Microsoft, with less than 2 percent of the market, is counting on an agreement with Espoo, Finland-based Nokia Oyj (NOK) to put Windows Mobile on its phones to increase market share."
Goodbye SymbianOS?
TheMavic said:
We seriously need some patent reform...
"Microsoft, with less than 2 percent of the market, is counting on an agreement with Espoo, Finland-based Nokia Oyj (NOK) to put Windows Mobile on its phones to increase market share."
Goodbye SymbianOS?
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old news, go Microsoft. Its about time we have a good OS to sale phones rather than "oh the HTC herpderp has a dual core processor and so much ram." doesn't matter if the OS isn't optimized.
z33dev33l said:
old news, go Microsoft. Its about time we have a good OS to sale phones rather than "oh the HTC herpderp has a dual core processor and so much ram." doesn't matter if the OS isn't optimized.
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Cool story bro.
Smart move by MS with the tiles and such, must've saved a lot of money to hire some first graders to design the home screen!
slapshot30 said:
Cool story bro.
Smart move by MS with the tiles and such, must've saved a lot of money to hire some first graders to design the home screen!
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Pwnage of epic proportions!
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and treat it as though it's something new and amazing.
Its nice to have an OS that's nice, smooth, and built from the ground up for my device.
z33dev33l said:
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and treat it as though it's something new and amazing.
Its nice to have an OS that's nice, smooth, and built from the ground up for my device.
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Click to collapse
Lol your fanboism is actually comical. Carry on, I like to laugh.
z33dev33l said:
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and turn it into something new and amazing.
Its nice to have an OS that's nice, smooth, and built from the ground up for my device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fixed it for accuracy
The stupid thing is, MS could have been market leader 5 years ago if they only took their mobile operations seriously. They never have and I doubt they ever will. They just needed a decent interface, a deal with a book wholesaler to supply their reader, a deal with a music reseller and an app store so they could have bought handango. To bad instead they chose to take a giant leap backwards.
In all fairness, when Microsoft actually recovers from that 2‰, Android will already be in a new generation. Motorola is but a fraction of the massive companies that are backing Android and they all are contributing constantly to better innovations for the OS.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk
I think MS have to stock up there device pallet , the devices are cheap ( thats why i bought them ) but today a mobile phone became a status sign( Iphone ), so MS have too make there devices ,,cool,, , means they have too send some phons for free to ABC VIPS ( Iphone ) and the the problem is solved . But i hope the price will stay cheap as in the moment ^^ but with a market who google has to defend android phones get maybe cheaper too , cool for android and wp users ^^. Before the Iphone everybody look where i get the most features for the best price but today sm changed and i dont know what ^^ some answers plz
Software patents are the biggest load of **** I've seen in a long time. If you learn how to write, for example, a search algorithm in college and then use it in a commercial app, too bad if the guy sitting next to you in class has been granted the patent for it. Doubly bad if you invented it and weren't smart enough to get to the patent office before them.
Seriously Apple own patents for such inane **** as "method for interacting with a portable device via touchscreen" and "power management of portable devices". So watch out if you produce a touchscreen phone with power management. If you put any code in there which acts similar to Apples they will sue you sooner or later.
It's about as stupid as allowing Ford to take out a patent on having four wheels on a car.
I'm also pretty sure the Judges who hear these cases know so much about programming they can make informed judgements of these cases ... not. It's all about which legal team can spin the must bull**** to befuddle the courts.
Sent from my Cyanogenmod hungry Htc Sensation.
z33dev33l said:
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and treat it as though it's something new and amazing.
Its nice to have an OS that's boring, bleak, and has no apps.
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Click to collapse
I don't follow you... I like customizing my electronics and personalizing them. But if the whole one size fits all thing works for you, then great! (You're in the minority on that one)
slapshot30 said:
I don't follow you... I like customizing my electronics and personalizing them. But if the whole one size fits all thing works for you, then great! (You're in the minority on that one)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
28 percent of iPhone users have still not added even a wallpaper to their phones, over 90 percent of android users are still running the stock rom and im sure if the study was done you'd find that a large portion of them haven't done much more than add some icons to the homescreen and perhaps toss up a wallpaper. People as a whole by android because they're the free phones you get at most carriers. Your choices are either a feature phone, blackberry, or one of the 30 android devices they have up (or perhaps the one or 2 wp7 devices that they have there but most in-store carriers are still running those at 99 with a 2 year contract.) iPhones are a status symbol. I'll never understand how a phone who's only redeeming quality is pixel density and a junk filled app market (how many tap the trigger to fire a gun games do you need?) got that way but hey, apple is good at marketing. Microsoft wanted to build an OS that sells phones, not the other way around. They hit the nail on the head, unfortunately my toothbrush is more intelligent than the average consumer so well continue to see blind, stupid purchases until Microsoft either gets a marketing team that's not largely run by chimps or they saturate the hell out of the market like android has.
I'll agree about the average consumer in the USA being an idiot. It's clear that not many actually research a product before buying (especially like a phone that will be used every single day for around two years). Beats and Apple are perfect examples. But I just don't see MS ever catching up. Look at all the brands that make Android phones and how many varieties are out there. You're right, so that is why Android sells more because of vast selection. The selection on Android phones will continue to grow. The iPhone's popularity will inevitably grow. I just don't see any room for MS in the mobile market... Especially with the lack of marketing put forth as oppose to Apple and Android. Hell, maybe someone will see a commercial with the WP7 tiles and say "Hey, that looks cool, I want to check it out". But that won't happen, because they never see those commercials. I agree with what someone said before, MS just doesn't seem to put enough effort forth, just like before with Windows Mobile.
z33dev33l said:
Microsoft wanted to build an OS that sells phones, not the other way around.
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Wish they had.
There were some adverts for WP7 over here but they didn't last long, they may have been pulled by the ASA due to the false claims they made or due to lack of interest.
MS have even resorted to using the US version of their "We turned your front room into a W7 shop" rather than the short lived UK version.
The I'm a PC campaign (not the "and Windows 7 was my idea" ones) was really good, it didn't derride other computer systems like the awful mac/pc ones, so their marketting team can get things right, they just need a decent product to work with though and WP7 just isn't inspiring. Of all the smartphone users I know only 2 have WP7 devices. Over here handsets are often free, even the iphone so price doesn't really come into it.
z33dev33l said:
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and treat it as though it's something new and amazing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They haven't though, have they?
Motorola already had patents saved away for whatever reasons, probably saw this coming and it was an entrepeneurial decision to hold company value later. Al Google did was take info from a dying company and carry it on. Let's face it, If Google let Apple get hold of such info it would privatised and charged for, for many years.
Android is the only way forwards, Nokia were the biggest phone manufacturer say 10 years ago and now they're a distant memory. Apple were only successful because of compatibility within their network of products... people pay for convenience. Once other manufacturers adopt this policy then Apple has no advantage. I know Apple have a patent for technology where hovering your finger above the screen is sensed by the device and selects whatever 'tile' your finger is above. There's no call for it right now but in a few years? If Apple go bust in that time (I know, VERY unlikely) then it's this type of stuff they sell to stay afloat. What if MS bought such info? MS fanboi's wouldn't grumble
Microsoft will be an irrelevant company over the course of the next 10 years.
Steve.X10 said:
They haven't though, have they?
Motorola already had patents saved away for whatever reasons, probably saw this coming and it was an entrepeneurial decision to hold company value later. Al Google did was take info from a dying company and carry it on. Let's face it, If Google let Apple get hold of such info it would privatised and charged for, for many years.
Android is the only way forwards, Nokia were the biggest phone manufacturer say 10 years ago and now they're a distant memory. Apple were only successful because of compatibility within their network of products... people pay for convenience. Once other manufacturers adopt this policy then Apple has no advantage. I know Apple have a patent for technology where hovering your finger above the screen is sensed by the device and selects whatever 'tile' your finger is above. There's no call for it right now but in a few years? If Apple go bust in that time (I know, VERY unlikely) then it's this type of stuff they sell to stay afloat. What if MS bought such info? MS fanboi's wouldn't grumble
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I'm sorry, you just defended android with the argument that people "pay for convenience." that alone is comical.
And that's exactly what google did...
It's looking very dim for samsung at this point. My overall observation is how big of a blow would this win if Apple wins be to the Android OS?
http://allthingsd.com/20120806/iphone-caused-crisis-of-design-at-samsung-memo/
Well here is the thing. If they are mainly suing over android features how come apple just does not go after google?
blackguy101 said:
Well here is the thing. If they are mainly suing over android features how come apple just does not go after google?
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That can't handle that "beast".
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
screw apple I love their Macs but they really need to lay off android and stop trying to be the one and only mobile os there is nothing wrong with a little compitition. I will never buy another ios device because off all apples BS
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Mark930 said:
screw apple I love their Macs but they really need to lay off android and stop trying to be the one and only mobile os there is nothing wrong with a little compitition. I will never buy another ios device because off all apples BS
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
+1
with all respect to the late Steven P. Jobs, apple had a huge problem with people copying interfaces, and this is more of a Jobs thing.
If you look at the history of the company based in the Jobs biography, it has always had problems with competitors copying them, but seems like this time is the first time that they feel the leverage to pursue legal action.
I for one am seeing this as apple being completely ugly and childish, and it certainly has changed the way that I look at them and their products.
It also doesn't help that Samsung seems hell bent on losing this case. Most things they've done so far have either pissed off the Judge or made themselves look like idiots.
I don't know what street corner they got their lawyers from, but they need to seriously consider getting some new ones.
mustbepbs said:
It also doesn't help that Samsung seems hell bent on losing this case. Most things they've done so far have either pissed off the Judge or made themselves look like idiots.
I don't know what street corner they got their lawyers from, but they need to seriously consider getting some new ones.
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Perhaps this is a cultural divide.
It seems to me this legal battle is being fought on Apple's home turf.
Of course, I live in the USA.
I believe the justice system is impartial to a certain degree but South Korean companies do business differently (every country does) and their behavior from the get go I would agree seems a little uncouth.
Releasing the images of the prototypes to the media was a bad idea. I haven't kept up on the case as much as I would like but seems they don't get that they should play nice in court.
Mark930 said:
screw apple I love their Macs but they really need to lay off android and stop trying to be the one and only mobile os there is nothing wrong with a little compitition. I will never buy another ios device because off all apples BS
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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Last I checked, the US still has anti-monopoly laws in place. Will it deter their dominance quest? Of course not. What can we do? What we already do: support and run Android! Plus, without apple, these forums would be overrun with idiots asking what the extra physical buttons do and demanding to know why they didn't receive a gingerbread and frozen yogurt sandwich covered in jelly beans and cupcake frosting with their device purchase
Super SGS3, Away!!
SCH-I535.10, Beans custom stock build 6
stevenjcampbell said:
Perhaps this is a cultural divide.
It seems to me this legal battle is being fought on Apple's home turf.
Of course, I live in the USA.
I believe the justice system is impartial to a certain degree but South Korean companies do business differently (every country does) and their behavior from the get go I would agree seems a little uncouth.
Releasing the images of the prototypes to the media was a bad idea. I haven't kept up on the case as much as I would like but seems they don't get that they should play nice in court.
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Click to collapse
I think it was a good idea. Piss off the judge and if she shows that shes pissed and thus bias in court you get a mistrial and can get an easy appeal thus showing that evidence in court.
Sccrluk9 said:
I think it was a good idea. Piss off the judge and if she shows that shes pissed and thus bias in court you get a mistrial and can get an easy appeal thus showing that evidence in court.
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I think you are right. This will definitely go to appeal. Chances are that Samsung will get whatever judgement suspended until its worked its way through the system. This case is very hotly contested and I can see it making it to the Supreme Court.
blackguy101 said:
Well here is the thing. If they are mainly suing over android features how come apple just does not go after google?
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Why is that so damning? All I see is what any CEO should do and that is look at the competition and see what you have to do to compete with them?
I'll bet there is a memo like that in every mobile phone company's CEO email somewhere. You have to look at the competition, especially when they make something so different and game changing, and change directions and you have to communicate that some how.
Yeah, this is looking bad.
They don't sue Google because it's Samsung that allegedly infringed on their patents. They copied the form-factor, they copied the icons. The form-factor is less of an issue - I think they will win on that. A flat touchscreen in a square body is basically the only design you could use for a touch-centric OS. But the icons, and that document that came out today, oh God...
It is depressing that in the gigantic tech space, there really is no company besides Apple that has the user-centric design culture to make what is essentially a perfect device for the vast majority of users. They have copied, and will copy, but the difference is Apple is innovative in a way that Samsung and Google simply are not. Google is too geek-and-tech centric to do what Apple does. They love hacking. They love making phones people can hack. They are like us Android fans, they love customizability, and so they don't pay attention to the details that would make Android a perfect OS for mobile devices, because, in their world they WANT people to customize and add their own flair. They want people to be like them. And a lot of us are like that, we love it. I love it. But that's a minority. Most people want an appliance and a perfectly engineered system to play Angry Birds in.
iOS is designed just as a simple vehicle for launching apps for the most part. Android is designed to be a bit more than that. In any case they chose to use the Microsoft strategy of just getting the OS out there instead of making a device that would be a perfect synergy of hardware and software. And Samsung is just a consumer electronics company, making cookie-cutter devices for the most part. They are trying, I'll admit, but it's all half-assed. S-Voice is almost useless, they bring nothing special to Android with TouchWiz, the gestures are nice but really just gimmicky. And if they do come up with something absolutely original, they need to bring the fight to Apple, who will no doubt copy really useful features like voice-activation for the camera. And they probably won't...
There is no chance of monopoly issues as long as Android is as successful as it is. I remain convinced Android's biggest problem is there are simply not enough developers in the world interested in Android. There are numerous technical and economic reasons why Android does not have the apps and the polished apps we deserve. I fear, just as PC software was essentially Microsoft's domain for so many years, the next 15 years will be defined by the mobile space being iOS' domain. There simply isn't the justification for developers to work on Android as much, just as most PC software development was for Windows, not Macs back in the '90s...
I think Samsung will get hard...maybe it will be enough to startle them into innovation, but frankly, Asian companies do not have a great history of it. The last great consumer device to be invented in Asia was Sony's Walkman, and that was 30 years ago.
Face it, we have PCs. But PCs without the appbase. A few of us are enthusiasts, water-cooling and overclocking and have 3 screens. That's the XDA crowd, the hackers, the ROMers, the developers and themers. But the vast majority of Android users are downmarket folks who couldn't afford an iPhone but wanted to check their email and browse the web.
piiman said:
Why is that so damning? All I see is what any CEO should do and that is look at the competition and see what you have to do to compete with them?
I'll bet there is a memo like that in every mobile phone company's CEO email somewhere. You have to look at the competition, especially when they make something so different and game changing, and change directions and you have to communicate that some how.
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I agree. Maybe I'm not seeing the context, but it sure just reads like he's pushing his developers to come up with better products, which is what he should be doing.
I understand that my sentiments will belong to the minority here, but the fact that we like certain aspects of android phones better than certain aspects of various iPhones doesn't change Apple's claims.
The court case isn't about a rectangular phone with rounded corners or rounded-square green phone icons, it's about the entirety of the widget. If any one of Apples claims were made on its own, the case would have long since been thrown out. We can't become so jaded by the ubiquity of the iPhone in 2012 to remember how vastly different, unique, and mind blowing it was in 2007. You will see by my profile here that, A) I don't post a whole heck of a lot, B) I was using touch screen XDA devices years before the iPhone came out, and C) after the iPhone came out, I dropped off the face of the xda-developers world. Not because I was an Apple fan-boy... but because they brought a product to market that it took competitors many years to try and catch up with. Phones of that day were slow, the interfaces were buggy and unintuitive. We had never seen a mobile OS interface that was designed from the ground up to be used without a stylus.
While we love to think that swipe to unlock, pinch to zoom and pages of horizontally scrolled square icons, touch screen predictive thumb keyboards are common place and should be fair game for all. I'm thinking that many forgot that there were a couple of years where there was only one show in town with those features.
I currently own a SGS3, I love it, but the very foundation of that phone (and almost all android phones) is built off of the bricks that Apple laid. You want to see someone who didn't wholesale steal the iPhone's groove? Look at Nokia, or Microsoft. (One might also note, that they haven't been doing all that great.) Someone has to be ill informed, disingenuous, or nearly blind to say that the smartphones of today look more like the non-iPhones of 2007 than the iPhone of 2007.
I would love for Apple to be wrong. I love their products, but I love competition better. The fact is, though, that wholesale theft and regurgitation of another company's product is not truly competition. Rather than defending Samsung or cursing Apple, we should be demanding that our devices be more than just half hearted clones.
//signed Devil's Advocate
marsonist said:
I understand that my sentiments will belong to the minority here, but the fact that we like certain aspects of android phones better than certain aspects of various iPhones doesn't change Apple's claims.
The court case isn't about a rectangular phone with rounded corners or rounded-square green phone icons, it's about the entirety of the widget. If any one of Apples claims were made on its own, the case would have long since been thrown out. We can't become so jaded by the ubiquity of the iPhone in 2012 to remember how vastly different, unique, and mind blowing it was in 2007. You will see by my profile here that, A) I don't post a whole heck of a lot, B) I was using touch screen XDA devices years before the iPhone came out, and C) after the iPhone came out, I dropped off the face of the xda-developers world. Not because I was an Apple fan-boy... but because they brought a product to market that it took competitors many years to try and catch up with. Phones of that day were slow, the interfaces were buggy and unintuitive. We had never seen a mobile OS interface that was designed from the ground up to be used without a stylus.
While we love to think that swipe to unlock, pinch to zoom and pages of horizontally scrolled square icons, touch screen predictive thumb keyboards are common place and should be fair game for all. I'm thinking that many forgot that there were a couple of years where there was only one show in town with those features.
I currently own a SGS3, I love it, but the very foundation of that phone (and almost all android phones) is built off of the bricks that Apple laid. You want to see someone who didn't wholesale steal the iPhone's groove? Look at Nokia, or Microsoft. (One might also note, that they haven't been doing all that great.) Someone has to be ill informed, disingenuous, or nearly blind to say that the smartphones of today look more like the non-iPhones of 2007 than the iPhone of 2007.
I would love for Apple to be wrong. I love their products, but I love competition better. The fact is, though, that wholesale theft and regurgitation of another company's product is not truly competition. Rather than defending Samsung or cursing Apple, we should be demanding that our devices be more than just half hearted clones.
//signed Devil's Advocate
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I think calling the S3 a half hearted clone is doing both the Android OS and the strides that Android hardware makers have made over the past several years a disservice. I love competition too. But I also believe it is in full force here. Competition is why the S3 is light years better than my first Android device, the Droid X. Competition is why the S3 is the fastest, smoothest and least buggy Android device I've owned. I agree that the iPhone was a ground breaking device that set the standard for all smartphones. But when I see just how far the Android ecosystem has advanced in just the past two years I can't help but be impressed. Two year ago (July 2010) I waited in line for the Droid X. It had Froyo, which was obviously inferior to iOS 3.0, which was on iPhone devices at that time. I have now moved on to the S3 with ICS. The difference is night and day -- almost beyond compare. This was made possible not only by vast improvements in the Android OS by Google but also because of vast improvements in the hardware designed to run it by smartphone makers such as Samsung and HTC. Also, if you really think the S3 is a half hearted clone, can I ask why you have one, why do you love it and what compelled you to switch from the iPhone? I'm not trying to sarcastic. I really would like to know. Thanks for listening to my two cents.
we
kishin14 said:
I think calling the S3 a half hearted clone is doing both the Android OS and the strides that Android hardware makers have made over the past several years a disservice. I love competition too. But I also believe it is in full force here. Competition is why the S3 is light years better than my first Android device, the Droid X. Competition is why the S3 is the fastest, smoothest and least buggy Android device I've owned. I agree that the iPhone was a ground breaking device that set the standard for all smartphones. But when I see just how far the Android ecosystem has advanced in just the past two years I can't help but be impressed. Two year ago (July 2010) I waited in line for the Droid X. It had Froyo, which was obviously inferior to iOS 3.0, which was on iPhone devices at that time. I have now moved on to the S3 with ICS. The difference is night and day -- almost beyond compare. This was made possible not only by vast improvements in the Android OS by Google but also because of vast improvements in the hardware designed to run it by smartphone makers such as Samsung and HTC. Also, if you really think the S3 is a half hearted clone, can I ask why you have one, why do you love it and what compelled you to switch from the iPhone? I'm not trying to sarcastic. I really would like to know. Thanks for listening to my two cents.
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Absolutely fare questions. I own an Android device because I am inherently a tinkerer. I have had every generation of iPhone with a brief lapse in 2009 when the OG Droid was released. (I say brief because I gave it away after three months.) The interface and primary functionality of iPhones is a well worn path. I decided that I'd like something that I can toy with more. The ability to tinker is not a feather in Samsung's cap, however, rather a more fundamental aspect of the Android core.
It is now 2012. Early Android phones left *a lot* to be desired. Newer devices are more stable and have a few neat features that the iPhone doesn't, yet, have. Would these devices have lasted long enough to say "We've got NFC first" if they hadn't spent four years walking in the iPhones footsteps? I don't think so.
It's really a stupid case in my opinion. I mean, yeah, Samung probably took the iPhone as an example when they developed the Galaxy line. So what? Does Apple want Samsung to make phones shaped in a triangle? Beds have looked pretty much the same bar some details but no-one is complaining about copyright infringement. If something makes an impact as big as the iPhone on society, how is it possible not to think of it when developing a phone after it's release?
I hope Apple wins the software side of the argument so then maybe Samsung will stop puking their TW over android and let Google deal with any legal **** that comes about.
Alright, so after reading a couple articles on a bunch of sites. I can sort of understand a vicious cycle that's going on in the mobile development world.
First off, let me begin, Mobile OEMs (as we all know) don't release updates very often. And as a general rule, when they do... it's usually a couple months late. Just look at HTC devices, most of the (somewhat) older devices (depending on what you're definition of older is) aren't getting the updates to ICS for while http://goo.gl/FjcMJ . And in some cases they just decide not to update them at all. (see the Desire HD and possibly the Thunderbolt http://goo.gl/BwZld )
Initially when Android started, this was a little different. And allow me to clarify by going far far back, to the first Android device. The HTC Dream.
It initially came out with Android 1.0 (Astro) it eventually got updated all the way to the software version 1.5 (Cupcake). If you look back then, that's two software updates! Astro to Bender to Cupcake.
Now let's look at just about any other Android device (not made my Samsung, for the most part they're a bad example... (of course then again, they have the head of Cyanogenmod Steve Kondik on their team).
We're going to look at Motorola, because despite the fact that it's owned by Google, not all of their devices have received updates. And the device I've chosen from them is the defy. Now if you look over at the development section of the forums you'll see that we have a working (and apparently a very smooth) port of Jelly Bean for the Defy. http://goo.gl/mE1Qy
But if you decide to see what Motorola's deciding to do to update it from Gingerbread, well... their development section is devoid of everything for the Defy... http://goo.gl/g8XN0
Now why does that matter to us happy go lucky developers and modders? Well let's look over this little scenario I've played out in my head more than once.
CEO#1 "Oh they want Jelly Bean?"
CEO#2 "Yeah they do..."
CEO#1 "So what are we going to do about it?"
CEO#2 *checks XDA* "Nothing, the ones who really care about it have a working ROM up already."
CEO#1 "Okay, sounds good to me. So are you ready to go make some more phones with high specs and outdated software?"
CEO#2 "Well if we start now, we should be able to get six new devices running ICS 4.0.3 out by mid December!"
CEO#1 "Ohh, not even having the latest version of ICS is really going to get them. Brilliant!"
This is a vicious cycle that just keeps going around, and around, and around. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a way to stop it. While we need Superuser and rooting privileges, we also need updates to the latest version of Android OS to keep us going.
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates. The problem is that with their history of sending out updates we really can't stop working. And even when they do send out updates, sometimes they aren't even fully stable! (see Evo 3D http://goo.gl/VzCNM )
So the question is, how are we going to stop this?
Buy devices from the companies that keep things up to date. The Nexus gets direct pushes from Google so you know you're good there. Sony has a dedicated line to developers through their forums and even offers devices for temporary dev use and has reasonably priced unsubsidised phones.
Put your dollars in the right places if you want to make change happen. Those who want full access still aren't a large enough part of the market to shape everything. That said, people pushing for control have made sure that iDevices can be jailbroken and HTC is staggering hard because of mis-steps in marketing that have been worsened by lackluster updates and their decision to shun the dev community that was bolstering them.
They can't look at xda or whatever Android forum because there is a larger population of users who have no idea what rooting is, let alone custom ROMs. Those people depend on updates and if they won't get an official update, they won't get one at all.
Sent from my MB508 using xda premium
If you ask 10 Android users what version of Android they are on, 8 of them will have no clue, 1 will know because the sales rep used it as a selling point, and one of them will be running Jellybean (thanks to XDA!).
Consumer demand is not high enough to demand the cost of testing new software on dated phones. Sad but true.
thebeastglasser said:
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates.
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If they really saw us as free labor, they would release a phone with cyanogenmod or something and just kang whatever works for their next update. (Actually, this would be a very good idea.)
However, in actuality, they just don't care about the devs. Too busy trying to differentiate their products with custom skins and cause more work for everyone.
It is true that most people don't know much more than that they are are android or "droid", just like many people don't know much more than they have an Iphone. The vocal majority of phone users (online) however have quite a bit more knowledge which means they get much more feedback from the minority.
One of the main reasons (other than price) that I got a Nexus 7 was due to the fact that Google pushes updates immediately to their nexus devices. I see this as an additional "perk".
You can't buy a device Android or other from an OEM or carrier and expect to get the latest greatest updates a or mods any too quickly. Forums and sites like xda bring in developers and users who ate eager to offer mods and help that you will never find coming from the mainstream as quickly or with the same quality. I get the device I want and look to here to make it better quicker.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
But what I see is that there are a bunch of phones that could easily be running better software (like the Defy) but OEMs clearly see that anybody who seems to care enough about updates are doing it themselves. The problem is, there are relatives of mine who refuse to root and yet they know enough about phones to know what version they're running and know the difference between the two versions. The one they currently have, and the one they could have.
I feel like this is kind of unfair to the sed-mentioned people and on top of that, it makes uneducated users buy more phones, while it keeps people like us are at work.
I'd bet that it was a pain in the a** porting ICS to the Desire HD no thanks to HTC, and yet this is just one less job for HTC and a hell of a lot more work for us... That's just me.
And also, that idea for a "pre-kanged" phone or one running a version of Cyanogenmod is pretty good. It'd be a great idea...
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb not only because of devs, but because people who just end up with them will like seeing timely updates and devices that continue to get better and better. If you want to help the rise of affordable, quality devices then steer others toward them when you can and buy them yourself when it's time for something new.
Also, people on xda do not see development as a "work", they see it as a hobby...
So even if all the phones were on the latest android, the dev community here at Xda would still be hard at "work" to come up with something better...something which the OEM's and Google couldn't think of implementing even with such large resources at their disposal...
And let's face it, apart from games, the general public in large doesn't have "need" for BETTER phones...
I've seen the likes of HTC One X and Galaxy S3 go in the hands of people for whom multitasking would mean chatting on whatsapp while waiting for the fb app to load...
So the question would arise, if the public doesn't "need" better phones, how do we sell it to them?
The answer becomes clear, stop giving them updates...make them feel that their device is outdated...that they "need" a NEW and BETTER phone...
The ones who understand the capability of their phone would have the ability, or more importantly, the will to make the updates happen...
For the rest, well there's fancy advertising...
Hope this clears up...
- Via xda premium
Yeah, I suppose it makes sense. Thanks guys!
How many people are there using Android? About 60% of the market, which means hundred milion users How many members do we have here on XDA? Less than hundred thousands! It means that regular users dont know and dont care what OS they use or even dont know what the update is. Froyo, GB, ICS, JB sound like alien languages for most of regular users. For those who know wat they are using, they are already XDA members, the rest just doesnt care or they just simply buy an iCrapple. Therefore, there is no way you can stop that. Customers are always taken granted by companies.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda app-developers app
Extreemly well put. We all knew it but didn't say anything. I am awaiting the next nexus for this very reason. Props to thebeastglasser
MissionImprobable said:
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb
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The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
thebeastglasser said:
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
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Not currently active users though. Remember XDA used to make you register to download files so that jacked up the member rate.
thebobp said:
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
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Click to collapse
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Google is marketing a clean, recognizable line in their Nexus devices, advertising intelligently, and making sure that they continue to stay on the latest firmware. Supporting them and other companies who do so will dictate what model corporations follow. Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Grassroots movements have done everything from keeping the iPhone legal to jailbreak to getting a man his goodies when a WP store tried to pull a fast one in regards to him winning the WP challenge to getting VZ to clarify that they wouldn't be doing anything to their Unlimited users. We may not be the majority, but we are far more organized and informed than the masses and as such what we do gets noticed and picked up on by tech, blog, and news coverage. The only ones who don't make change happen are the naysayers who sit by and do nothing. Support the brands that support the customers and devs.
MissionImprobable said:
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
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Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
MissionImprobable said:
Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
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I'm not really convinced that Motorola's and HTC's losses were due to locked bootloaders, or even lack of firmware updates. Rather, I think it's due to brand inertia: at some point, Samsung came up with a phone (the Galaxy S2) that was so far ahead of anything else on the market at the time, that they just grabbed market share and brand loyalty from many of the consumers on the market. This has little to do with the Galaxy Nexus, and indeed their "next big thing" has been the horribly backward (from a stock perspective) S3 and the Note.
It's been my perception that there is a strong correlation between developer support and whatever device I want to get next.
When I got my very first phone, it was the Samsung Captivate.
It had (Still has) great dev support. I decided not to wait a month to get the Moto Atrix because, there was no predicting what kind of dev support it would have despite having great specs. I find that (generally speaking) Samsung phones have had strong dev support.
I sort of hate to point this out.. But, if you think the "average consumer" cares about upgrades.. I would be inclined to disagree. A lot of people do care about upgrades.. Myself, my girlfriend, a lot of people who frequent forums in general.
Still, your average consumer is probably more concerned with the screen size than the software it's packing. Even if ICS is "nicer" and "more elegant" there are a lot of people who really don't know or even care what OS their phone is running. As long as they can text and check facebook, they aren't going to be bothered with the small details of "Jellybean" or "ICS"
I have to be completely honest when I admit, if I were a manufacturer.. I don't honestly know how inclined I would be to release OS updates. Not because I want to be an evil corporation and force you to upgrade to get the newest OS.. But, because putting it plain and simply.. It takes time, energy, and money to release an update. If *ANYTHING* goes wrong with the update and even a single person doesn't follow the instructions.. It becomes really hard to prove they are the one at fault. So you spend your time and energy making an update, potentially having more cost incurred due to possibly damaged hardware, and then finally.. wondering how many people really cared in the first place. A lot of people don't care and even won't upgrade their phone because, they perceive it as "a pointless endeavor."
thebobp said:
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
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What does this have to do with supporting companies that support us? Voting with your dollars is a metaphor; it doesn't mean that there is an election for phones.