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This is just a PSA to all you vicious Android fanboys on this forum that hound anyone who asks the question "what phone should I get", especially when one of those options includes an iOS device or a WP7 device.
So let me get this started. I love Android. But Android is not perfect. Take a deep breath, and say it with me again, out loud.
"Android is not perfect." Was that too hard? If so the following explanation is for you.
Ever since Android first came out, people were hailing it as the iPhone killer. But in reality? It's really not. It may be getting there, and may be getting there quickly, but that's not that point.
It may be a surprise to many of you, but there are actually other human beings outside of XDA that use smartphones. Human beings that are not interested in rooting their phones or spending a lot of time completely customizing them or pushing them to the limit. These human beings want their phones to work when they need them, and that's all. Whether these phones are iOS, Android, or Windows Mobile/7 phones is completely irrelevant to them.
Except, it actually is. But see, not in the way most of you seem to think it is.
People shop for phones nowadays because the have an end they need to reach and they need the means to get to that end. Whether it's something as simple as checking an email message or quenching a thirst to play a game, they take into consideration what is the quickest, most hassle-free way to do this. This requirement is not because they are stupid. Most XDA users seem to think that anyone off XDA just buys iPhones because they are uneducated about "the true power of Android" and all that jazz. Guess what? That's not the case.
Yes. Here at XDA, we can do a lot with our phones. We root them, we build custom ROMs for them, we use features that were locked before, or get versions of our OS that aren't out yet.
But please be damn sure you understand that we are the minority. We will always be the minority. Your experience here doesn't define the mobile landscape, it only improves your personal experience with your phone. Just because you took a few hours to root your phone, find the perfect custom ROM, and settle down with it doesn't make the average Joe who just bought an iPhone (because it does what he wants easily and has all the apps he likes) a stupid user.
Here is the meat of this newsflash; Android wouldn't be here if it wasn't for iOS. (Going further, iOS wouldn't be there without Windows Mobile, and etc etc etc until we reached the very first man who asked 'why can't I see my email from my phone'). Apple took a chance on what people wanted, and realized they had something. They built an OS that was based on the ideals of OS X; simple, straight-forward, good looking, and well received. And so began the App and Data revolution. All of a sudden, the idea of having mobile data became real. These wonderful delicious little things called "apps" made the mobile world much more exciting than it had even been before. And so Apple hit a goldmine, and the mobile landscape had been painted. These apps were well-designed, fun, informative, useful, and people liked them so much, they started to buy paid apps. Apple knows how to market to people, and there success showed.
So then. Android.
Android was birthed out of the idea that Google could cash in on this app world. You may think the intentions were noble, with the idea that it was some pipe dream in the same way linux was; completely open mobile platform. After all, if Apple could have the success with a closed system, Google obviously could rock the world with an open one.
But it's not. Android, or at least what most people come to think of as Android these days, is not "open". It's open to phone manufacturers, and carriers, but that's it. It' snot open to the end user. Why else do we have locked down features, closed-source OEM skins that hinder future firmware upgrades? Why else do we have carrier-controlled Market restrictions? Why do some phones not ship with developer tools, or the ability to install from unknown sources?
Let me be frank. I love Android, but Android is a mess. It's a mess of a bunch of wonderful ideas that would have shined like nothing else in the perfect world, but a mess that didn't anticipate a simple fact; businesses like to make money.
The truth of the matter is that we don't have freedom with Android. Every little part of it has a restriction we need to bypass. Do you buy an expensive high end phone, or a cheaper low-end phone? Will you still be able to play those cool games on that low end phone? Will it get software updates? Is it safe from malware? Buying an Android phone has become the same as trying to buy a Windows PC.
It suffers from the same problem that Microsoft does when compared to Apple's line of computers. Apple builds its hardware AND its software, so they interface with complete precision and function. People with iPhones don't need to worry about security updates, or whether their phone will be obsolete. Apple may release a new phone every year, but the point is that those phones are made to last, both in terms of hardware and software. They even went the next step further and made the iPod touch, which gave phone users who weren't ready for smartphones a taste of what it was like.
My Sprint Hero came out on October 11th, 2009. The iPhone 3GS came out in June of the same year. Both were priced around the same amount, but what stands out to me the most when I think back to when I tested both that year? The fact it took Google this long to make an operating system which took ages to mature enough to be used by HTC to make a phone that STILL could not even give me a smooth web browser, something that the very first iPhone was able to do. Games on the Hero sucked in comparison to the 3D games that were playable on the iPhone.
Now then, Android smartphone hardware has advanced to a significant level, but the point of this whole rant is that Google has always been following in Apple's footsteps in the mobile world, and it's going to be that way for some time.
Be a bit humble about the begginings of Android and what it's become, and for f***'s sake, be a bit mature than just saying "LOLOLOL APPLE SUCKS GG GET ANDROID".
Because it's the rest of the world outside of XDA that defines the success of these mobile platforms, because I hate to say this, but you and I are not part of that outside world of mobile phone users, and we never will be.
The truth is, no one can really say what the "perfect" mobile OS is. All we can do is say what works best for us or what we prefer, but when we state it as fact, as though it's not arguable, that's when we become the fanboys that we so dearly hate. Just keep that in mind.
Opinions welcome, fanboyism from either side not wanted at all. Congrats on finishing this post.
Excellent post. Would read again.
Great things said there. I can see a point in it. But still, I don't either see Ios higher as Android since Ios is a mess too. Let me just take this simple statement. Music on a Ipod/Iphone needs to be converted from the computer to the device, you can't random download a song(on the device) from Internet and play it. Same as the file exploring.. if you want to search for a file, you find a file in some folder like: im/af/on/ar/qr, or just some folders which are messy, and the file types are unknown for the computer. All those small things give me the excuse to stay at Windows Mobile. Simply cause we can download music files and play it, simply cause there is great development on it, simply cause it can be customized how we want it.
Cool story bro
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
d12unk13astard said:
Cool story bro
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
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Good job. That must have taken some serious thought to come up with.
This is something I 100% agree with.
When I had a Samsung Moment, I had problems galore with it. Keyboard wouldn't type, horrible support, and the big network lockup. Mind you, a network lockup where you can't call out to anyone is against FCC laws. But just to get some type of damn support for the thing, I almost had to root it. And I'm sorry, but I shouldn't have to depend on an online community for support for a phone when the carrier and manufacturer of the phone should be doing that. What the hell is the point in buying the phone and paying damn near $70 a month if I can't use the damn thing?
Let's also talk about performance of the Moment and how unoptimized it was. The Moment uses the same SoC found in the Iphone 2g, and 3g. The only difference, stock 2g and 3g SoC is 600 mhz, clocked down to about 422 mhz for battery, while the Moment was 800 mhz. Both arm11 cpu cores. The Iphone 2g and 3g despite having almost half the clocked frequency of the Moment, was smoother and had actual hardware support and acceleration. Even this day, Samsung still does not have proper hardware support for the SoC being used in the Moment, Intercept, Transform, Spica, etc etc.
If done right, Android is pretty awesome I'll admit. But if I want a phone to work, I'll get something that actually works.
big advantage of android, but also a weakness:
it works well on many devices, but its not optimised for the spezific hardware of each phone...
gosualex said:
big advantage of android, but also a weakness:
it works well on many devices, but its not optimised for the spezific hardware of each phone...
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Good understanding
I love android because I love to tinker. Nothing could ever change my mind short of the os aging. I will say this flaws or not I refuse to give apple my money. So it's either wp7 or android.
My words to live buy if I can't hack it I don't want it. Just my 2cents
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium Apps
I would agree iPhones support is a lot longer no network changes added, updates can brick the phones though.
Android need some love. Fragmentation. Networks slow to update. Ui 's being to sluggish to update the phone to higher levels.
All android phones should be aosp no extras from makers or networks.
Love my cm7/miui.us phone but most people would want to flash it or know how to. They would just think might as well get an iPhone.
Just my feelings. I own apple computers. Custom built pcs android phones had iPhones I still use an iPod touch in the kitchen as you can get the best speaker docks for them. Use what works best for the situation.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
Android security warning !!
I think android is the best system, but its very insecure if you let it on stock and don't secure it, root it, get rid of some apps and optimize it.
Did you know that a normal app with all permissions can get all your data?
-gps location
-contacts
-logs
-screenshots
-hidden camerashots
-sms/mms
-emails
-photos
-etc
BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THIS IS FACT !!!
There was a test in germany, where a developer made a app with all the rights to do the things above and send them hidden in the backround to a specified server to that he had access. So he could read and see all the things above and it was even updating immidiatly after a new sms or something came in and the testuser who installed it had no clue at all and was shocked when they told it to her.
The App itself was just making photos with a black censor stripe in the eyes and it seemed that it never could do that, but all the real action is going on in the backround.
By the way, he sayd it was very easy and many apps could do that and most of them really do that.
And what I know, many of you don't know or don't care and spread all your information to some companys that like to have them alot. And they allways want more.
Maybe you should spread this information by quoting this post or linking to it, because many people don't like to be ripped of their information.
Or do you like it, when someone is standing close to you and listens all what you say to your friends, when you have a private conversation ? I think not!
check out my signature also.
and be safe!
edit: i think i should post this as a new thread!
Great post, good read!!
Hard to say any mobile OS is perfect. But the world of mobile OS is developing quickly in recent years.
Haven't played extensively with Android and IOS. Currenly, I still think IOS is more polish. Android definitely have a lot of features and I am looking forward to where they take the OS to in the future. It seems like it's an OS that has a lot of support and has had to "grow up" really rapidly.
I actually agrer with everything in this post. Fact is the best technology in the world is technology that is stable, works, and allows the user to complete what ever task is needed.
Last night it was decided my wife and I are switching to verizon why? Cause the wife wants IOS and I am more partial to android and BB and thats the only carrier that has all 3.
Now to add on what was already said I think google needs to pick one manufacture purchase them then do exactly what apple does marry the hardware amd software together to get rid of what can be a problematic OS simply cause with some manufactures android is worse then on others.
Sent from my SPH-P100 using XDA App
(•.•) said:
I think android is the best system, but its very insecure if you let it on stock and don't secure it, root it, get rid of some apps and optimize it.
Did you know that a normal app with all permissions can get all your data?
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You give apps on an iphone or WM phone permissions to do these things too right, so this is a more general problem in the new mobile world...
BTW, I like you're post LiquidSolstice, you could almost call it a fact, it's not that the one is better than the other. It's just that they are different and the majority of people likes easy and simple...
I agree with alot of what LS mentions in the first post. My wife is one of those who could really care less about rooting, overclocking, mem management, or even what version of Android she is using for that matter. She just wants to be able to send that text without the keyboard "hicupping", or to make that phone call without the dialer lagging, etc. I like Android, but I don't like Google's.. well let's say "less than kosher" business practices and corporate involvements. I think a big point to remember is that there will always be people like us that get a huge kick out of toying with electronics. For some, it's a hobby, for others, a career. With that being said, there will also always be those doofies that get on sites like this one and annoy the living crap out of you. Everything needs to be taken in stride, and though there are those who appear to be clueless on a subject, always remember that we all have to learn somehow. Knowledge is not obtained through osmosis.
Android feels like a permanent beta. I prefer iOS for simple tasks plusSbsettings is unmatched. WP7 seems more like a feature phone, it doesn't tell you 'I'm smart.'
I mostly agree
I don't think the problem with android is really the fact that more than one company is involved in developing phones for android. The problem is that those companies, (OEMs & carriers) have been given way to much freedom to decide not only what processor & RAM the phone would have but to put their "stamp" on android. I think the blame for that partially falls on Google for not putting a stop to OEMs & carriers putting their bloatware on phones. Google has been asked multiple times to do something about the "fragmentation" issue & they've refused, so ultimately they are partly responsible for the "mess" android has become.
tsaxda said:
I don't think the problem with android is really the fact that more than one company is involved in developing phones for android. The problem is that those companies, (OEMs & carriers) have been given way to much freedom to decide not only what processor & RAM the phone would have but to put their "stamp" on android. I think the blame for that partially falls on Google for not putting a stop to OEMs & carriers putting their bloatware on phones. Google has been asked multiple times to do something about the "fragmentation" issue & they've refused, so ultimately they are partly responsible for the "mess" android has become.
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Well, carrier "bloat" --I put that in quotes because the current three major skins bring much needed features to Android (whether or not the execution is done well or not is a different argument)-- isn't quite what's killing it, it's the time spent optimizing the hardware for Android.
Android gets slapped on as many devices as possible and then sold as a low end affordable smartphone, and that's the issue, but that's the essence of Android at the same time.
ZeGuitarist said:
Excellent post. Would read again.
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+1 Outstanding post. Completely agree.
Alright, so after reading a couple articles on a bunch of sites. I can sort of understand a vicious cycle that's going on in the mobile development world.
First off, let me begin, Mobile OEMs (as we all know) don't release updates very often. And as a general rule, when they do... it's usually a couple months late. Just look at HTC devices, most of the (somewhat) older devices (depending on what you're definition of older is) aren't getting the updates to ICS for while http://goo.gl/FjcMJ . And in some cases they just decide not to update them at all. (see the Desire HD and possibly the Thunderbolt http://goo.gl/BwZld )
Initially when Android started, this was a little different. And allow me to clarify by going far far back, to the first Android device. The HTC Dream.
It initially came out with Android 1.0 (Astro) it eventually got updated all the way to the software version 1.5 (Cupcake). If you look back then, that's two software updates! Astro to Bender to Cupcake.
Now let's look at just about any other Android device (not made my Samsung, for the most part they're a bad example... (of course then again, they have the head of Cyanogenmod Steve Kondik on their team).
We're going to look at Motorola, because despite the fact that it's owned by Google, not all of their devices have received updates. And the device I've chosen from them is the defy. Now if you look over at the development section of the forums you'll see that we have a working (and apparently a very smooth) port of Jelly Bean for the Defy. http://goo.gl/mE1Qy
But if you decide to see what Motorola's deciding to do to update it from Gingerbread, well... their development section is devoid of everything for the Defy... http://goo.gl/g8XN0
Now why does that matter to us happy go lucky developers and modders? Well let's look over this little scenario I've played out in my head more than once.
CEO#1 "Oh they want Jelly Bean?"
CEO#2 "Yeah they do..."
CEO#1 "So what are we going to do about it?"
CEO#2 *checks XDA* "Nothing, the ones who really care about it have a working ROM up already."
CEO#1 "Okay, sounds good to me. So are you ready to go make some more phones with high specs and outdated software?"
CEO#2 "Well if we start now, we should be able to get six new devices running ICS 4.0.3 out by mid December!"
CEO#1 "Ohh, not even having the latest version of ICS is really going to get them. Brilliant!"
This is a vicious cycle that just keeps going around, and around, and around. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a way to stop it. While we need Superuser and rooting privileges, we also need updates to the latest version of Android OS to keep us going.
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates. The problem is that with their history of sending out updates we really can't stop working. And even when they do send out updates, sometimes they aren't even fully stable! (see Evo 3D http://goo.gl/VzCNM )
So the question is, how are we going to stop this?
Buy devices from the companies that keep things up to date. The Nexus gets direct pushes from Google so you know you're good there. Sony has a dedicated line to developers through their forums and even offers devices for temporary dev use and has reasonably priced unsubsidised phones.
Put your dollars in the right places if you want to make change happen. Those who want full access still aren't a large enough part of the market to shape everything. That said, people pushing for control have made sure that iDevices can be jailbroken and HTC is staggering hard because of mis-steps in marketing that have been worsened by lackluster updates and their decision to shun the dev community that was bolstering them.
They can't look at xda or whatever Android forum because there is a larger population of users who have no idea what rooting is, let alone custom ROMs. Those people depend on updates and if they won't get an official update, they won't get one at all.
Sent from my MB508 using xda premium
If you ask 10 Android users what version of Android they are on, 8 of them will have no clue, 1 will know because the sales rep used it as a selling point, and one of them will be running Jellybean (thanks to XDA!).
Consumer demand is not high enough to demand the cost of testing new software on dated phones. Sad but true.
thebeastglasser said:
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates.
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If they really saw us as free labor, they would release a phone with cyanogenmod or something and just kang whatever works for their next update. (Actually, this would be a very good idea.)
However, in actuality, they just don't care about the devs. Too busy trying to differentiate their products with custom skins and cause more work for everyone.
It is true that most people don't know much more than that they are are android or "droid", just like many people don't know much more than they have an Iphone. The vocal majority of phone users (online) however have quite a bit more knowledge which means they get much more feedback from the minority.
One of the main reasons (other than price) that I got a Nexus 7 was due to the fact that Google pushes updates immediately to their nexus devices. I see this as an additional "perk".
You can't buy a device Android or other from an OEM or carrier and expect to get the latest greatest updates a or mods any too quickly. Forums and sites like xda bring in developers and users who ate eager to offer mods and help that you will never find coming from the mainstream as quickly or with the same quality. I get the device I want and look to here to make it better quicker.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
But what I see is that there are a bunch of phones that could easily be running better software (like the Defy) but OEMs clearly see that anybody who seems to care enough about updates are doing it themselves. The problem is, there are relatives of mine who refuse to root and yet they know enough about phones to know what version they're running and know the difference between the two versions. The one they currently have, and the one they could have.
I feel like this is kind of unfair to the sed-mentioned people and on top of that, it makes uneducated users buy more phones, while it keeps people like us are at work.
I'd bet that it was a pain in the a** porting ICS to the Desire HD no thanks to HTC, and yet this is just one less job for HTC and a hell of a lot more work for us... That's just me.
And also, that idea for a "pre-kanged" phone or one running a version of Cyanogenmod is pretty good. It'd be a great idea...
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb not only because of devs, but because people who just end up with them will like seeing timely updates and devices that continue to get better and better. If you want to help the rise of affordable, quality devices then steer others toward them when you can and buy them yourself when it's time for something new.
Also, people on xda do not see development as a "work", they see it as a hobby...
So even if all the phones were on the latest android, the dev community here at Xda would still be hard at "work" to come up with something better...something which the OEM's and Google couldn't think of implementing even with such large resources at their disposal...
And let's face it, apart from games, the general public in large doesn't have "need" for BETTER phones...
I've seen the likes of HTC One X and Galaxy S3 go in the hands of people for whom multitasking would mean chatting on whatsapp while waiting for the fb app to load...
So the question would arise, if the public doesn't "need" better phones, how do we sell it to them?
The answer becomes clear, stop giving them updates...make them feel that their device is outdated...that they "need" a NEW and BETTER phone...
The ones who understand the capability of their phone would have the ability, or more importantly, the will to make the updates happen...
For the rest, well there's fancy advertising...
Hope this clears up...
- Via xda premium
Yeah, I suppose it makes sense. Thanks guys!
How many people are there using Android? About 60% of the market, which means hundred milion users How many members do we have here on XDA? Less than hundred thousands! It means that regular users dont know and dont care what OS they use or even dont know what the update is. Froyo, GB, ICS, JB sound like alien languages for most of regular users. For those who know wat they are using, they are already XDA members, the rest just doesnt care or they just simply buy an iCrapple. Therefore, there is no way you can stop that. Customers are always taken granted by companies.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda app-developers app
Extreemly well put. We all knew it but didn't say anything. I am awaiting the next nexus for this very reason. Props to thebeastglasser
MissionImprobable said:
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb
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The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
thebeastglasser said:
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
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Not currently active users though. Remember XDA used to make you register to download files so that jacked up the member rate.
thebobp said:
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
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The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Google is marketing a clean, recognizable line in their Nexus devices, advertising intelligently, and making sure that they continue to stay on the latest firmware. Supporting them and other companies who do so will dictate what model corporations follow. Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Grassroots movements have done everything from keeping the iPhone legal to jailbreak to getting a man his goodies when a WP store tried to pull a fast one in regards to him winning the WP challenge to getting VZ to clarify that they wouldn't be doing anything to their Unlimited users. We may not be the majority, but we are far more organized and informed than the masses and as such what we do gets noticed and picked up on by tech, blog, and news coverage. The only ones who don't make change happen are the naysayers who sit by and do nothing. Support the brands that support the customers and devs.
MissionImprobable said:
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
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Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
MissionImprobable said:
Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
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I'm not really convinced that Motorola's and HTC's losses were due to locked bootloaders, or even lack of firmware updates. Rather, I think it's due to brand inertia: at some point, Samsung came up with a phone (the Galaxy S2) that was so far ahead of anything else on the market at the time, that they just grabbed market share and brand loyalty from many of the consumers on the market. This has little to do with the Galaxy Nexus, and indeed their "next big thing" has been the horribly backward (from a stock perspective) S3 and the Note.
It's been my perception that there is a strong correlation between developer support and whatever device I want to get next.
When I got my very first phone, it was the Samsung Captivate.
It had (Still has) great dev support. I decided not to wait a month to get the Moto Atrix because, there was no predicting what kind of dev support it would have despite having great specs. I find that (generally speaking) Samsung phones have had strong dev support.
I sort of hate to point this out.. But, if you think the "average consumer" cares about upgrades.. I would be inclined to disagree. A lot of people do care about upgrades.. Myself, my girlfriend, a lot of people who frequent forums in general.
Still, your average consumer is probably more concerned with the screen size than the software it's packing. Even if ICS is "nicer" and "more elegant" there are a lot of people who really don't know or even care what OS their phone is running. As long as they can text and check facebook, they aren't going to be bothered with the small details of "Jellybean" or "ICS"
I have to be completely honest when I admit, if I were a manufacturer.. I don't honestly know how inclined I would be to release OS updates. Not because I want to be an evil corporation and force you to upgrade to get the newest OS.. But, because putting it plain and simply.. It takes time, energy, and money to release an update. If *ANYTHING* goes wrong with the update and even a single person doesn't follow the instructions.. It becomes really hard to prove they are the one at fault. So you spend your time and energy making an update, potentially having more cost incurred due to possibly damaged hardware, and then finally.. wondering how many people really cared in the first place. A lot of people don't care and even won't upgrade their phone because, they perceive it as "a pointless endeavor."
thebobp said:
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
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What does this have to do with supporting companies that support us? Voting with your dollars is a metaphor; it doesn't mean that there is an election for phones.
I'll throw my two cents on the at&t jelly bean update.
As some of you can see, I've been on these forums for a VERY long time. I've seen the forums go from basically an HTC win-mo board to the amazing place it has become today. Sadly, it seems like people seem to come here to whine more then to either innovate or at least take control of their devices.
Yes it's frustrating that AT&T hasn't released the jelly bean update for our device considering the update has been out for nearly 5 months now. But at the same time, this is XD-freaking-A! Where if you want anything on your device (short of Google wallet apparently), you cane make it happen. Root your phone, unlock your bootloader, and enjoy your phone as you want to.
I remember when people wouldn't bat an eye to dropping $600-$800 on a HTC TyTn II and it would come with 850/1900 HSPA so you didn't have to get stuck with ATT's crap and terrible support.
Lets get back to enjoying our device, and if that means going the Nexus device and/or unlocked device route, so be it. Don't let the carriers control you.
The lesson as always: less whining, more hacking!!
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
Funny, I was just thinking along similar lines today. This board has changed a whole lot in the time I've been here. I also joined during the WinMo days, back with the TyTn II (AT&T Tilt). In those days, folks with smartphones were mostly early adopters. Sure, XDA existed long before that time, and there were even earlier adopters, by far. But back in 2007, smartphones and especially moddiing them were the realm of tech geeks only.
The smartphone world has now exploded and become mainstream. The demographic of people that visit this site is now very different. Lots of n00bs asking for one-click root solutions and video tutorials, instead of just reading and doing. A lot more n00bs asking the same questions over and over, without bothering to do any research. And asking for help without providing any background information. I remember the days when nobody would even help you, if you didn't have your carrier, phone version, firmware version, and radio listed in your signature.
So my specific peeve is a bit different (less about the whining, and more about users not wanting to learn and research). But the basic premise is the same: the user base here has changed a whole lot over time.
Hmm I'm not sure I follow Ya about people whining , we get sometimes a bunch of people who don't follow instructions or read any previous posts but it seems its just the normal new user issues until they get broke in. The hoxl community in my opinion is the best group around in xda. With s off and our awesome choices in many android based versions it seems any update from carriers would be a severe downgrade and at this point serves us no purpose. I guess to make long story short I'm not really sure what the point of this thread is ( no offense meant)
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
DESERT.TECH said:
Hmm I'm not sure I follow Ya about people whining
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The OP may (or may not) have had this particular thread in mind: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2167162
That's just one guy. But there is always a surprising number of people on here, waiting around for official OTAs, afraid to root/BL unlock their phones, etc.
Lol Ya that was a good example
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Think this board's bad? should have seen the hp touchpad section right before it died. There's a new thread/post asking for someone to port win7 and win8 almost every day, and it's never going to happen lol.
Back in the day people who bought smartphones were geeks and tech heads, plus this site was mainly HTC devices WinMo devices. Now almost everyone has a smartphone so you get a lot of annoying people on here.
Ha! As bad as this place can get with noobishness, the iOS jailbreak community is worse because the barriers to entry are a lot lower. Pretty much everything is one-click once the exploits are found, and there's no division by handset like there is with Android. Bricking is next to impossible because you can easily recover and go back to stock through iTunes.
I haven't been at xda all that long, but I was into jailbreaking from when the 3G was released, which was mid-2008. Back then, it was only hardcore geeks and most people didn't even realize jailbreaking existed or had only the vaguest understanding of what it was. When I came over the divide last year, it had gotten so bad people thought you could jailbreak over wifi because iTunes does most things over wifi now. You would go through ten posts trying to help someone only to discover they didn't even have their iPhone plugged into their freaking computer. Plus you would have people showing up for the express purpose of arguing that you shouldn't jailbreak and that all of us were going to jail.
Everyone and their mom has a smartphone now. That statement applies to me as my mom has a Galaxy Note 2. The only thing I ever seen her do with it is look up celebrities net worth on google now :laugh:. I have never understood why would there be anyone here waiting for AT&T to release their JB Sense ROM when we have had it here for over 2 months. I'm here because I want to get the absolute best out of my phone that the purely stock experience cannot match.
NJGSII said:
Everyone and their mom has a smartphone now. That statement applies to me as my mom has a Galaxy Note 2. The only thing I ever seen her do with it is look up celebrities net worth on google now :laugh:. I have never understood why would there be anyone here waiting for AT&T to release their JB Sense ROM when we have had it here for over 2 months. I'm here because I want to get the absolute best out of my phone that the purely stock experience cannot match.
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Everyone and their mom has a smartphone, but not everyone and their mom comes here and talks about flashing ROMs. I expect stupidity in the forums as a whole from outsiders who just come here from a Google search, but people in the ROM threads are just as lazy and entitled. ROM threads are nearly impossible to keep up with because they're 1000 pages long and 980 of those pages are repeat questions. I'm new here so maybe that's the way it's always been but it's frustrating to say the least. If I don't come here for one day, I have 30 pages to catch up with on the single ROM I actually follow.
When I first bought my phone a good six months ago, coming from 3gs, All I did was troll up until now. The first thing I found was the thread to unlock, supercid and , root my phone, for att 2.20. I found two threads that would do it, the all-one-tool kit, and the x-factor exploit. I decided to go with the x-factor instead of the all in one because i wouldn't learn anything with the tool-kit. After that I ran into the problem of no rom, recovery, and an un-mountable sdcard. I did a quick search about the un-mountable sdcard in our forums here and found the Team Nocturnal SD Fix for evita. Once that was done i had a working sd card, trwp recovery but still no rom. So i did another search and found one of the best informational posts ever, Gunnyman's quick and dirty adb/fastboot primer this got me on track to start pushing rom zips to my sdcard without having a bootable rom and also told me that i had to fastboot flash boot boot.img every time I installed a new rom hboot 1.14+. And I still haven't had to ask any question on how to do something because guaranteed 100% that someone else has asked that very same question you just have to read and read some more, the only way someone hasn't asked your question is if you've been doing your own mod work that nobody else has seen.
I'm nowhere near as active as I used to be. Cooking your own winmo roms was fun in those days. But that was in College and at att when I actually had time to learn that stuff. Generally if you follow instructions to a T, you will be fine.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
I hate people who jailbreak at my school. Why? Because I'm the kid they b**** to about EVERYTHING. How do you jailbreak? Where did you download it? How do I install stuff? How do I get everything free? OH EM GEE MY PHONE KEEPS RESTARTING WHAT DO I DO?! JAILBREAKING SUCKS ITS ALL YOUR FAULT! To this I reply with "Google it you d*** a**" This being my first smartphone, I have used every peice of it. I have a girl who bought a gs3 and has yet to figure out how to put apps in folders. I can say, without a doubt in my mind. That I am the only kid in my grade with common sense for technology. I'm only in 8th grade so I pray it gets better in highschool.
-Sugardaddy Duncan
When did xda become so safe?
When did the scene become a joke?
The kids who used to live for custom and root
Now want their OTA and officials
Cursing and flipping n00bs are not allowed,
In fact let's keep dev only talk levels down
Must separate the church and skate!
When did xda become so safe?
I know it wasn't Turge or h8rift,
Who put up the barricades
Like a stake in the heart,
Somehow we got driven apart
Arrow44 said:
I hate people who jailbreak at my school. Why? Because I'm the kid they b**** to about EVERYTHING. How do you jailbreak? Where did you download it? How do I install stuff? How do I get everything free? OH EM GEE MY PHONE KEEPS RESTARTING WHAT DO I DO?! JAILBREAKING SUCKS ITS ALL YOUR FAULT! To this I reply with "Google it you d*** a**" This being my first smartphone, I have used every peice of it. I have a girl who bought a gs3 and has yet to figure out how to put apps in folders. I can say, without a doubt in my mind. That I am the only kid in my grade with common sense for technology. I'm only in 8th grade so I pray it gets better in highschool.
-Sugardaddy Duncan
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That's really interesting. I always assumed kids growing up these days (God I sound old) would be friggin' wizards of technology having grown up with it since birth. But maybe the opposite is true : where my first computer required a lot of WORK to do anything with (custom boot disks to run DOOM and whatnot), nowadays everything just "works" so kids will be proficient on the basics but absolutely clueless on anything beyond that because they never HAD to do it...?
thebobmannh said:
That's really interesting. I always assumed kids growing up these days (God I sound old) would be friggin' wizards of technology having grown up with it since birth. But maybe the opposite is true : where my first computer required a lot of WORK to do anything with (custom boot disks to run DOOM and whatnot), nowadays everything just "works" so kids will be proficient on the basics but absolutely clueless on anything beyond that because they never HAD to do it...?
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Literally 98% of my school has iPhone's and they're all dumb ass Isheep..it's embarassing to listen to some of their conversations sometimes.. it ashames me that I go to the sane school as them
thebobmannh said:
That's really interesting. I always assumed kids growing up these days (God I sound old) would be friggin' wizards of technology having grown up with it since birth. But maybe the opposite is true : where my first computer required a lot of WORK to do anything with (custom boot disks to run DOOM and whatnot), nowadays everything just "works" so kids will be proficient on the basics but absolutely clueless on anything beyond that because they never HAD to do it...?
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As the father of three school-age boys, I can tell you that in some ways, not a whole lot has changed. The baseline has moved, but the divisions are the same. Everyone has a phone and a computer, but there are still big differences in how much they care about them.
The average kids (the same crowd who wouldn't touch a computer when I was their age) are uninterested in the guts and only know the basics of how to use them. And there is still the geek crowd who wants to know everything and play around with it.
thebobmannh said:
That's really interesting. I always assumed kids growing up these days (God I sound old) would be friggin' wizards of technology having grown up with it since birth. But maybe the opposite is true : where my first computer required a lot of WORK to do anything with (custom boot disks to run DOOM and whatnot), nowadays everything just "works" so kids will be proficient on the basics but absolutely clueless on anything beyond that because they never HAD to do it...?
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This is true. I graduated highschool in 2007 to give you some perspective. The student body of my school was a little under 1000 for each grade. Of this, there were 15 of us "computer guys". Nobody else knew anything, nobody else cared.
I feel like I'm getting old, watching everyone around me. I'm a senior in college now, getting a bachelor's degree in telecommunications & systems administration. You'd be suprised to hear that most of my classmates know relatively little about computers, especially at a lower level. Hell, one of my friends who just scored a great job at target corperate IT didn't know what a CSV file was until I scolded him yesterday. Kids these days are stupid.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
ECEXCURSION said:
This is true. I graduated highschool in 2007 to give you some perspective. The student body of my school was a little under 1000 for each grade. Of this, there were 15 of us "computer guys". Nobody else knew anything, nobody else cared.
I feel like I'm getting old, watching everyone around me. I'm a senior in college now, getting a bachelor's degree in telecommunications & systems administration. You'd be suprised to hear that most of my classmates know relatively little about computers, especially at a lower level. Hell, one of my friends who just scored a great job at target corperate IT didn't know what a CSV file was until I scolded him yesterday. Kids these days are stupid.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
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I guess I get not knowing the innards /lower level stuff, but you'd think general USAGE would at least be second nature by now.
It's like with cars. Almost everyone knows how to drive and uses a car daily, but only a small percentage can fix them or understand how they work.
Most people, young and old, don't know/don't care about how computers and phones work.
Hi.
What kind of power we can have if we will make petition to Samsung software/developement team to do some updates of Android to our phone?
How many users are here that have this awesome mobile?
I always think is good idea to try than moan...
I e-mailed Yotaphone and asked if they would consider making a qwerty slider....
I think it would be beneficial if we all did the same.
It is not my intention, to find new device.
I am fed up going for new.
Old is good enough many times.
Our mobile is enough for emails, www etc. but the only downside is software.
It's not going to happen. Both the carrier (T-Mobile) and Samsung would need to agree that it's worth spending a lot of money to give this phone an upgrade. Given that both companies want you to buy a new phone every 5 minutes, neither of them want people to be satisfied with their old phone. And speaking of old, this phone is almost 3 years old and has a small user base. There are hundreds of more popular phones released between then and now which haven't seen updates, so no one's going to pay much attention to ours. The only way to get updates is to make them ourselves.
If we don't try - we will never know for sure.
How many registered users are in Relay section, can anybody check?
Check in
I am in business!
Here!
Sent from my SGH-T699 using XDA Free mobile app
I'm still using mine, but it's really a secondary phone at this point. Given that the flex cable is this phone's Achilles heel, I don't slide the keyboard out very often, either.
lol. How about a few of you...
a) learn to code and help move the 5.x support forward,
b) donate a phone to a dev, since the two primary developers no longer OWN a relay (and both have mentioned that they would be willing to work on it if somebody donated a phone).
Sign up at freenode/#apexqtmo
doitright said:
lol. How about a few of you...
a) learn to code and help move the 5.x support forward,
b) donate a phone to a dev, since the two primary developers no longer OWN a relay (and both have mentioned that they would be willing to work on it if somebody donated a phone).
Sign up at freenode/#apexqtmo
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I would love to learn how to code but no one really has time to teach and i know there are plenty of guides but I'm afraid I'll kill my phone. I've already managed to kill my usb port, not from coding attempts, but nonetheless inoperable. As for donating, the relay is my only working t mobile phone so I don't want to give it up. I would, however would pitch in on one. From what I've seen they go for about 100 or so. I would like to be part of the solution in any way I can.
Another Relay user here...
Since this is one of the last good QWERTY phones around, figured it was time to stop just lurking this forum and sign up lol. I'd also be willing to test any new 5.x ROMs built, since I'll have an alternate phone in a couple of days that I can fall back to if I break this one.
I have a phone and I can code, however I need somebody who give me clue or some direction to follow. I've never coded for hardware, only business apps.
This one is not gonna be cheap, but if it runs android it will be amazing:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/07/02/blackberry-venice-slider-leak/
Wow! Extremely cool, man! Thanks for the info
This phone has a lot of potential, but it will never be anything more. The reason I say this is because of Blu's business model, which I was unaware of when I bought the device. They do not have an R&D department. They are just middle men. Gionee makes most of their phones and they simply rebrand them. That is why they offer zero support. They can't. The don't have anything to do with the phone other than distribution. So there will never be upgrades to software unless Gionee makes it, but that probably won't happen because they are not in software development business. They primarily only make the phones, so support is not a major concern for them as well. Blu just constantly buys phones and throws them out there. There was this phone, which was quickly forgotten as they transitioned to their next phone, the VIVO 5. There was supposed to be an MM upgrade for this device. I don't believe they ever saw it. Now they are onto the ENERGY XL and the VIVO will be forgotten. They will never release any code or info on the phones, because they can't. They don't own it or have created it. They just middle man and rebrand. Hence, there will always be little to no development for any Blu device.
This has been covered many MANY times here on XDA... Maybe you could have done some reading before purchase. I for one dont make purchases without at least reading some reviews and seeing what other people have said about the company / service / product.
One would assume a member of the XDA community would have the forethought to do the same.
Thank You for your opinion, but this isnt the venue for venting about buyers remorse, there are sites like amazon for that.
If you dont like the software on the phone, learn to code, or buy another phone, but spouting all the hate and bile about a self professed rebranding reseller is neither helpful or productive, so lets keep this forum about moving forward, not about personal regrets you project onto a company.
jim262 said:
This phone has a lot of potential, but it will never be anything more. The reason I say this is because of Blu's business model, which I was unaware of when I bought the device. They do not have an R&D department. They are just middle men. Gionee makes most of their phones and they simply rebrand them. That is why they offer zero support. They can't. The don't have anything to do with the phone other than distribution. So there will never be upgrades to software unless Gionee makes it, but that probably won't happen because they are not in software development business. They primarily only make the phones, so support is not a major concern for them as well. Blu just constantly buys phones and throws them out there. There was this phone, which was quickly forgotten as they transitioned to their next phone, the VIVO 5. There was supposed to be an MM upgrade for this device. I don't believe they ever saw it. Now they are onto the ENERGY XL and the VIVO will be forgotten. They will never release any code or info on the phones, because they can't. They don't own it or have created it. They just middle man and rebrand. Hence, there will always be little to no development for any Blu device.
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thanks for the comments .. puts a lot of things in perspective about the phone .. perhaps it's time to look elsewhere for my next one ..
tbirdguy said:
This has been covered many MANY times here on XDA... Maybe you could have done some reading before purchase. I for one dont make purchases without at least reading some reviews and seeing what other people have said about the company / service / product.
One would assume a member of the XDA community would have the forethought to do the same.
Thank You for your opinion, but this isnt the venue for venting about buyers remorse, there are sites like amazon for that.
If you dont like the software on the phone, learn to code, or buy another phone, but spouting all the hate and bile about a self professed rebranding reseller is neither helpful or productive, so lets keep this forum about moving forward, not about personal regrets you project onto a company.
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No this may not be a site for buyers remorse, but it is a site about facts and the fact is BLU does not own anything and therefore can not produce updates, release code, stock roms, or anything else beneficial to development. Is that better? BTW, I did research this phone and the vast majority of reviews were positive.
And once again if you had done even a TINY bit of research about the brand, you would have known this... they do not try to hide this information... so once again I am TRULY SORRY you bought something you dont like, and I am VERY GLAD you have learned from the experience and have grown from it...
Learn to code and help out instead of complaining...
As far as positive reviews, I love the phone, using different launcher and exposed its good phone... dont know what your beef is with the company or the phone... they could have locked the boot loader or encrypted it to the point we cant even root it, but none of that has happened... so quit being a "negative Nancy" and look at the brightside
tbirdguy said:
And once again if you had done even a TINY bit of research about the brand, you would have known this... they do not try to hide this information... so once again I am TRULY SORRY you bought something you dont like, and I am VERY GLAD you have learned from the experience and have grown from it...
Learn to code and help out instead of complaining...
As far as positive reviews, I love the phone, using different launcher and exposed its good phone... dont know what your beef is with the company or the phone... they could have locked the boot loader or encrypted it to the point we cant even root it, but none of that has happened... so quit being a "negative Nancy" and look at the brightside
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I can't code this phone and apparently not many can. There is no source code to work with that has been released and I don't have the time to reverse engineer this device. This site is about sharing information and if I can help some to not make the same mistake I did, then I have succeeded. So please don't shoot the messenger, BLU is who your issue should be with.
to shoot the messenger of this ancient news i'd need a musket... and also you wouldnt be one being shot, as this isnt even "news" its "olds"
There are A LOT of people that CAN code for this phone, we just only have 2 or 3 that are busy as hell, so we dont make much progress... once again if you want it served up on silver platter, learn to code, or put up some reward money (thats how we got root btw)
but "the airing of grievances" is for festivus not for xda, so quit banging that head on the aluminum pole
Once again, it is not a grievance only a warning to help others in making a decision about this device. There I have said it for the last time.
griev·ance
ˈɡrēvəns/
noun
a real or imagined wrong or other cause for complaint or protest, especially unfair treatment.
"failure to redress genuine grievances"
synonyms: injustice, wrong, injury, ill, unfairness; More
an official statement of a complaint over something believed to be wrong or unfair.
"three pilots have filed grievances against the company"
a feeling of resentment over something believed to be wrong or unfair.
"he was nursing a grievance"
"The reason I say this is because of Blu's business model, which I was unaware of when I bought the device."
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REED MOAR...
Feed your head...
your major point seems to be "I bought a really well reviewed phone"
I did research this phone and the vast majority of reviews were positive.
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And are upset no custom roms or updates available...
http://bluproducts.com/android-software-updates
kit kat is latest updates the advertise, you have lollipop but still arent happy, to the point you had to come on a community site who actually read, and like the phones they purchased...just to bad mouth and spout negativity toward a phone that most people who purchased are very happy with (hence the plethora of positive reviews you mentioned.)
this isnt a place to vent your personal experiences about a uninformed purchase you made (nor is it a place for me to decide ANYTHING, i AM NOT a MOD) but my suggestion is to do more research next time, maybe see if there are roms available for a phone BEFORE you purchase it, and research the companies record for updated BEFORE you purchase... being angry after the fact for making a poor decision not only is "crying over spilled milk" but also unbecoming and unhelpful...
BLU is a company with a reputation for selling CHEAP, REBRANDED, CHINESE phones from GIONEE... this is all COMMON KNOWLEDGE and very easily found out with very little effort... (one would even say less effort than the tirade post you started this whole debacle with, certainly less keystrokes)
SO by all means maybe do some more research (I tried to help with the definition of grievance for you, since you obviously you chose to ignore it, or do not know it)
also your "warning" is akin to standing outside McDonalds (or fast food grease hut of your choosing) and warning people entering they "served you a cheeseburger, when you wanted a cheeseburger with onions, but didnt look or ask if a cheeseburger comes with onions, AND THEY ALSO SERVE CHEAP FATTENING FOODS HIGH IN SODIUM"
the basic point being you cant flash a rom to a device, so now you have sour grapes and have to spit whatever tripe you can to "warn" people on a place, that IN THE TITLE OF THE WEBSITE states "Developers," im sure we need it... thanks for all the help!
XDA isn't a place for venting because you didn't research before buying.
Thread closed.