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As many of you probably know from the coverage at CES, a slew of manufacturers are coming out with Windows 8 laptops that will double as tablets too. For instance, Sony has a model in the making where the screen slides down to become essentially a tablet. Another one is Lenovo, with a laptop where the screen turns all the way around to become a tablet. The one and only problem with these offerings is Windows 8. Sure, I welcome Windows 8 as a laptop OS, I've always used Windows. But when it comes to a phone/tablet OS, I don't really find any Windows offering that intriguing. I dread the thought of leaving Android and ending up with two seperate OS's and sets of apps and such on my phone and tablet. I'm sure as heck not moving to a windows phone anytime soon either.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/9/26...o-tablet-prototypes-future-windows-8-hardware
http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/9/26...-windows-8-laptop-that-bends-backwards-into-a
So my questions are, do you guys think some devs will find a way to dual boot Android onto some of these devices? What will you buy for your phone, laptop, and tablet? I've read a few articles where some manufacturers are going to ship out their devices with BOTH Android and Windows 8, but I can't seem to find where I read that, and I don't believe any of the big name manufacturers were the ones doing it.
Android will at least be able to run in a virtual box, likely more. However, android's presence in the tablet market is... Underwhelming at best.
z33dev33l said:
Android will at least be able to run in a virtual box, likely more. However, android's presence in the tablet market is... Underwhelming at best.
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But right now, Windows 8 looks like a bastard child as a tablet OS. Maybe I'm wrong, we'll have to wait and see until it can be auditioned in person. The fact of the matter is that Android has most the market share for phones. People are going to want the same OS on their tablet for the sake of simplicity and not having to learn a whole new OS and buy a whole new set of apps. I'm hoping some of the big names catch on and send the devices with both Android and Win8. That would be a win-win for both the manufacturer and consumer IMO.
I'm looking forward to seeing what android can do once there's more ICS tablets as far as an ecosystem goes, I still think there's a lot of games and programs that they'll lack opposed to the 15+ years of PC games. I'm shocked that there's not a WoW client for android. Despite disliking WoW, it's not very resource heavy and it is massively popular.
I'm still convinced in the end, Win8 will be a hit.
I Am Marino said:
I'm still convinced in the end, Win8 will be a hit.
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I'm excited to have it on my laptop, but I'm not so sure about on a tablet. I hate the thought of having two seperate OS's on my phone and tablet. Viewsonic made a tablet about a year ago that shipped with the ability to dualboot into win7 and android. I hope Sony and others go for that idea...
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tested win8 in a vm from my point of view is the worst windows os yet...
2020legig said:
tested win8 in a vm from my point of view is the worst windows os yet...
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I don't think they can do worst than Vista
The introduction of the Tablet and the continued development of the phone has given consumers more choice, but has also led to more name confusion.
The Tablet is like a Net-book without a keyboard and is a good name because it doesn't include the name of any particular device or application. For example, you can use a Tablet for making phone calls or taking pictures without having to call it a phone or a camera. A Tablet can be any size, for the name just describes the shape and not it's use, though it is generally accepted as being a multi-function device. So keyboard less smart phones can be called Tablets.
Adding a detachable keyboard to a Tablet makes it better for those applications where a keyboard and extra battery and Ports are useful .
So given these extra choices the consumer has to decide which suits them best.
2020legig said:
tested win8 in a vm from my point of view is the worst windows os yet...
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How can anything be worse than Windows ME? My machine I got when ME came out blue screened right out of the box and needed to be restored. ^_^
I think it really depends on the productivity software available for Android and iOS when Windows 8 tablets/laptops start rolling out. I'm running into a lot of people who want to use tablets instead of laptops for their on-the-go work/computing needs.
Really not feeling Windows 8 at all, I think it'll struggle to outdo 7.
However, there will always be people who jump to get the "latest and greatest" software/hardware so I'm sure it'll do fine
Somewhere I read you could turn off the metro style (tiles) of windows 8. But let's face it, touch integration is the way for the future and I read laptops are moving towards both touch screen with the keyboard and trackpad with optional mouse. But to the user referring to tablets attached to keyboard docks. I think these will be much more than that. I think they will have more power than let's say an Asus transformer with a keyboard dock (glorified netbook). Thus I think these will lean more toward the laptop end, just thinner. At least that's what I hope.
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NOTE: If you are looking to troll, insult the intelligence of users of any platform, or flame in any way, then you are in the wrong thread.
To understand why "true" Android tablets (read as tablets besides the Fire) are struggling to gain market share, one must first consider why the iPad, and the Kindle to some extent, has been so successful, and why people choose to use a tablet instead of a laptop in the first place. It has nothing to do with specs. It has to do with three simple words: "Ease of use."
With little effort or thinking required, anyone can pick up an iPad without it being headache inducing or bad for your blood pressure. A good example is Netflix. I don't even want to start the Netflix app on the Transformer Prime. It is painfully slow and non-responsive. On the iPad, the Netflix app with the same exact layout is as smooth as butter and arguably one of the best ways to consume Netflix content. No constantly having to glance at the battery, no rampaging through forums trying to find out why your device is constantly rebooting. It is just you and your tablet having a relaxing, intimate experience.
Unless the Android tablet makers straighten out the reboots, the app issues, the wifi issues, etc before worrying about specs, then Android on tablets is destined to go the way of the Zune.
in the case of netflix, that's netflix's failure, not Android's or the tablet makers.
as for "ease of use", if you think an Android tablet is too hard to just pick up and use, you must be especially inept. both my 56 year old mother and 72 year old step-father picked up my Transformer and were tapping and swiping away like they'd been using a tablet for years, no hiccups at all.
The biggest problem with Android tablets is shoddy,poorly optimized software and lack of apps. Android is nowhere near as smooth as iOS(ICS better than Honeycomb but still nowhere close to iPad), which really degrades the user experience. There is also a severe lack of tablet specific apps, and certain apps run fine on one tablet,but not another even though the hardware is identical. The only way Android tabs can compete is on price, which is why Kindle Fire was able to gain traction. No one I their right mind will pay the same price for an Android tablet that will be obsolete in a few months, and may not receive OS updates. Google really dropped the ball by making Honeycomb such a steaming pile of dung and launching overpriced junk like the Xoom to take on iPad 2, horrible first impression to say the least.
As said above me, the problem is indeed the lack of apps and optimizations for the tablet with both size and hardware specs.
The only reason for that, is that Android 3 was rebuilt from scratch, iOS, which was old and popular already, was simple "streched" over the screen of the iPad. Even the hardware is the same.
Google didn't release the zoom Motorola did. As for honeycomb vs ios, ios is for all purposes the same exact operating system released on the first iPhone. The advancements have been few and far between, and always behind the time. Google actually changed everything, yes some of it did not come out perfect, but honeycomb is a unique ui from gingerbread, froyo, etc. I have some issues with my honeycomb tablet but the limitations of ios out weigh my issue with honeycomb. The ipad is a great product with an offensively boring operating system
Netfilx runs on my tablet with out any lag whats so ever, and I experience no reboots unless I am pushing it with over clocking and what not. Apple makes a one size firts all product. One screen size, one processor, one clock speed, one os, one ui. Most people who complain about android made a poor choice of the device they purchased, then blame the operating system for the performance. With Apple there is one tablet.
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Manufacturers
You are definitely right. The downside about Android is not the actual software but in a way how many devices and manufacturers there are. With So many Android devices coming out every other week, it would be almost impossible for Google to be able to take their software and mod it to every new device. With Apple they have one tablet and are able to focus on making things work perfectly on that one device, no other device specs to throw in.
The iPad sells because it is made by Apple and their customers are very loyal to the brand. Developers for the iPad only have 1 (or 2 if you count the 1st gen iPad) device to test on, so there should be no problems. Android app developers have many different devices which means there is a greater chance for issues, but this is not Google's fault or even the tablet maker's fault, it's the app developer.
Android has had quite a few updates in the last few years, both UI and Linux kernel. iOS on the other hand still looks like 2007 with some newer apps included. The tablet versions of Android are still pretty young. Even if the ratio of Android tablets to phones doesn't take off, getting everyone on ICS should help out stability of tablet apps.
sarreq said:
in the case of netflix, that's netflix's failure, not Android's or the tablet makers.
as for "ease of use", if you think an Android tablet is too hard to just pick up and use, you must be especially inept. both my 56 year old mother and 72 year old step-father picked up my Transformer and were tapping and swiping away like they'd been using a tablet for years, no hiccups at all.
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When people are having to read forums and sometimes open up their device to get wifi to work correctly, that is not easy to use. You may not be having this issue, but there are hundreds in the prime forum having it. People use the tablet because it is a more enjoyable experience. If the laptop is more convenient, they will use that instead, which is why people don't want to use Android tablets. They are headache inducing trying to figure out why nothing is working like it should. They have great specs, but software is more important on the tablet form factor.
kingsway8605 said:
When people are having to read forums and sometimes open up their device to get wifi to work correctly, that is not easy to use. You may not be having this issue, but there are hundreds in the prime forum having it. People use the tablet because it is a more enjoyable experience. If the laptop is more convenient, they will use that instead, which is why people don't want to use Android tablets. They are headache inducing trying to figure out why nothing is working like it should. They have great specs, but software is more important on the tablet form factor.
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Your issues are not android software related. You should of read the same forums you are talking about before purchasing the device and you would of been aware prior. Because of the fragmentation of android there are plenty of sub par decvices on the market. It is up to the consumer to make a smart decision as to which to purchase.
this is all a matter of prefference so the argument can just go round in circles. If I was to win an I Pad 2 in a raffle I would not even take it out of the box before I sold it and used the proceeds to get an android device
mcord11758 said:
Your issues are not android software related. You should of read the same forums you are talking about before purchasing the device and you would of been aware prior. Because of the fragmentation of android there are plenty of sub par decvices on the market. It is up to the consumer to make a smart decision as to which to purchase.
this is all a matter of prefference so the argument can just go round in circles. If I was to win an I Pad 2 in a raffle I would not even take it out of the box before I sold it and used the proceeds to get an android device
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And you missed the whole point of my OP.
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mcord11758 said:
Your issues are not android software related. You should of read the same forums you are talking about before purchasing the device and you would of been aware prior. Because of the fragmentation of android there are plenty of sub par decvices on the market. It is up to the consumer to make a smart decision as to which to purchase.
this is all a matter of prefference so the argument can just go round in circles. If I was to win an I Pad 2 in a raffle I would not even take it out of the box before I sold it and used the proceeds to get an android device
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So you're in a small minority of people who want to waste their cash on a barely functional device running junky software. I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people would take an iPad over an Android tablet unless it's much cheaper with a comparable ecosystem ala Kindle Fire.
I don't see the Android tablets ever surpassing the iPad. In the tablet market, the "just working" is even more of a powerful concept than the phones since tablets are generally an extra expense.
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I think the real problem is that people don't want tablets, they want an Ipad. I have never been sold on the tablet craze. My screen is 4.5 inches, why would I need more? I truly believe that this is why Apple keeps the Iphone so small, to almost make a tablet a necessity.
kingsway8605 said:
And you missed the whole point of my OP.
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No I get it, you have problems with your tablet and are assuming the issues are symptomatic of android
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mcord11758 said:
No I get it, you have problems with your tablet and are assuming the issues are symptomatic of android
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No you don't get the point of my OP. The forums for each of the popular tablets, the app selection, and Android market share prove they are symptoms of Android on tablets.
Google and the tablet manufacturers do not get why the tablet form factor became popular in the first place. This is the point of my post.
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My apologies for the bickering, although I do not agree with the premise I respect your position. I have a company iPhone and purchased an android tablet as I prefer the platform. I have a htc flyer and for half the price like it more than my wives iPad. In the end that is just me though
kingsway8605 said:
No you don't get the point of my OP. The forums for each of the popular tablets, the app selection, and Android market share prove they are symptoms of Android on tablets.
Google and the tablet manufacturers do not get why the tablet form factor became popular in the first place. This is the point of my post.
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Isn't that the same thing everyone said about Android on phones when it released?
Swyped using my Pinky
SiNJiN76 said:
Isn't that the same thing everyone said about Android on phones when it released?
Swyped using my Pinky
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Tablet market is not the same as the phone market. The reason Android gained traction is because carriers needed something to combat the iPhone and it was the best alternative at the time. Android gained market share because carriers embraced it since it put them back in the driver's seat, they could take out features,install loads of crapware and modify the OS to their heart's content. The majority of Android phones sold aren't premium handsets, but low to midrange phones of the BOGO or free with contract variety. Meanwhile tablets are typically not bought with a contract and wifi models are far more popular, which cuts the carriers out of the loop. This puts vendors in a precarious position,because they can't rely on carrier subsidies and can't compete with Apple on price due to their purchasing power. Trying to push an Android tablet at $500+ is an automatic fail because there aren't enough Apple haters or hardcore geeks who are pretty much your only market at that price point. The fact that W8 is also looming on the horizon and looks to be a much better tablet OS than anything that Google is bringing to the table doesn't help either.
More and more Android tablet makers are getting it right, starting now, just the way Google is getting the Android experience to match up to the iOS experience. It is true iOS was light years ahead in terms of beauty, simplicity, ease of use, performance etc - but Google (with Android) and many of the tablet makers (Samsung, Amazon, and now even the ODMs/OEMs in rest of the world) are catching up in terms of the OS experience - ICS is quite simply amazing, and one can't say it is horrible compared to iOS, even if one loves iOS.
The reason why many people complained about Android, rightly so, is caused by the fact that Android didn't dictate what hardware it must be run on, allowing manufacturers to make compromises/mistakes on the hardware (processor, memory, display etc) whereas Apple ensured the hardware is just as good as the OS, and even more than that Apple knew the internals of iOS and its processor/hardware really well from before, and could ensure the best optimized experience. With more manufacturers learning more about Android now - they are becoming more sophisticated in their engineering - and the Android experience will continue to flourish. And not just Google's own flavor of Android, but fork-offs like those of Amazon (and maybe others like Samsung?) may result in even more special things!
Its certainly an exciting time for Android, and in general, consumer electronics. As coders, I hope we all can add to this and bring great products to life!
As an avid android phone user, as well as a android tablet user, after comparing it with an iPad, my only gripe with my android tablet is the lack of productivity applications.
I can't seem to find one that fits my needs well enough. Most productivity apps (e.g. note taking, office applications) seems to be subpar and not a worthy laptop replacement. I haven't found a worthy office application on the iPad either. However, for note taking with a capacitive pen, iPad do have applications that performs pretty well, and those are mighty useful from the feel of it. This is my biggest gripe about the android tablet. This is coming from a university student, and of course it is probably less related to business based in terms of note taking.
Productivity aside, I love using my android tablet to watch shows, moboplayer is simply one good media player that is really convenient, unlike the iOS. As for games, there are hardly any games worth playing on the mobile platform. If I wanted proper games, I'd pick up my DS or PSP along the way rather than playing some half assed game on iOS or Android. This is my personal opinion of mobile platform gaming, most of the games are largely boring, that being said, there are some A grade games being ported off PC indie games that are worth playing on the mobile platform. Other than that, the general population of games arn't exactly worth playing.
Do you think windows 8 tablets will pretty much kill this device off? How long to you think it'll take before windows 8 kicks off? Seeing the recent Asus windows 8 tablets with tegra 3, 2GB RAM and dock, it's hard not to regret your purchase...
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I, personally, will never regret not buying a Microsoft product. I did not buy an XBox, will not buy an XBox360 or the next one. I won't buy any computers with Windows installed, and I won't buy any computer parts made by Microsoft. So no, I won't regret this tablet purchase when Windows 8 tablets are released.
And regardless of my personal vendetta against MS, it seems like no one else has/had plans to buy any Windows Phone products. I don't think Windows 8 on a tablet will do any better than Windows Phone 7. But then again, I didn't think anyone would use Windows 7 after the Vista fiasco, so I could be wrong here.
Why the microsoft hate?
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I don't think so. Based on what I've used of Windows 8 and knowing that programs will have to be recompiled/remade for ARM, I think that unless MS makes a considerable effort, we will be seeing WP7 all over again.
I'm sure people will eventually port Android to those tablets, so it probably won't matter in the long run.
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I don't regret my purchase from an o/s standpoint, I use windows on my computer as I need it for work, not by choice. My only regret of my tf300 purchase arising from the the new Asus windows tablet release is the 2gb of ram. That would make such a difference in operating performance. But I would only purchase 2gb on an Android tablet, Window's closed environment really doesn't agree with me.
Yeah, that 2GB RAM is a real crucial factor. I like the fluidity of windows
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David Dee said:
I don't regret my purchase from an o/s standpoint, I use windows on my computer as I need it for work, not by choice. My only regret of my tf300 purchase arising from the the new Asus windows tablet release is the 2gb of ram. That would make such a difference in operating performance. But I would only purchase 2gb on an Android tablet, Window's closed environment really doesn't agree with me.
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I kinda want my tablet to replace a desktop so windows would be good
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The Win 8 ARM tablets probably won't be out until the Fall. After that, I suspect it will take some time for them to gain the sort of critical mass that would really attract developers. I suspect it'll be 12 months to 2 years before they offer everything I'd like to see in a tablet. When that time comes, I'll take a second look at them. I've definitely not got anything against buying a Win 8 tablet.
KindaUndisputed said:
Why the microsoft hate?
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In no particular order:
Massive security flaws in nearly all their software - and you can't tell me that the only reason so many Windows virii, worms, etc. exist is because it's popular
And the biggest culprit of the security vulnerabilities is Internet Explorer, which is (was? I haven't used Windows since XP) locked into the operating system
Windows ME
They force vendors who want to sell Windows-based computers to pay a license penalty for every computer sold without Windows, which is one of the biggest reasons Linux-based computers are so rare and usually sold by unknown manufacturers
They are collecting license fees for many Android phones based on bogus patents
Windows ME
Really, I don't even care to think about more reasons. All I can think of is the computer my parents bought with Windows ME. *shudders*
For all it matters looks like Asus is coming out with dual boot Android & windows tablet ...so I fore see that eventually developers will port them onto the transformers ..just wait and be part of the fun that unfolds....similar to my HTC hd2 phone
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Windows 8 tablets probably arent going to take off because they're just as locked down as Apple's stuff. That is, locked bootloaders are a requirement for all Win8 ARM devices and metro apps and other app stores cant be sideloaded. Microsoft is trying to pull an Apple without having the fanbase that would ensure product adoption regardless of their anti-consumer policies.
Even if they do, Android will stay around as a pretty dominant player by default since there's always going to be a group that wants freedom to use their devices as they wish.
I don't know about that. Some Android manufacturers are locking things down pretty hardcore *cough*motorola*cough, which makes them not so different from Apple.
I'm definately interested in these windows 8 tabs and I think that they could make a splash in the quite "linear" market of today.
However I do also agree with some earlier posts in that while the Windows tablet market will surely benefit (how could it NOT its nonexistent right now) I don't think their smartphone situation will get any better and I doubt that the desktop market will benefit from a huge overhaul of the classic layouts. I mean lets face it, so many people use windows just because its windows. Not actually because they want to and if windows changes then I think a lot of people will leave regardless of the 'desktop mode' built into metro.
Just my 2ยข
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EndlessDissent said:
I don't know about that. Some Android manufacturers are locking things down pretty hardcore *cough*motorola*cough, which makes them not so different from Apple.
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Sure, but there's also precedent in that HTC stopped locking their bootloaders after public outcry from power users. Even if Win8 takes off, some company will still sell open hardware. So long as there's a market, someone will cater to it.
EndlessDissent said:
I don't know about that. Some Android manufacturers are locking things down pretty hardcore *cough*motorola*cough, which makes them not so different from Apple.
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Even if they try to lock down their devices in many cases the dev communities will find a way to unlock them. And I doubt that's going to change any time soon.
I also think there will always be good companies that will release bootloader unlocks *cough* Asus and HTC *cough* and I think with Google's recent acquiring of Motorola I don't think they'll be as locked down as before
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Jotokun said:
Sure, but there's also precedent in that HTC stopped locking their bootloaders after public outcry from power users. Even if Win8 takes off, some company will still sell open hardware. So long as there's a market, someone will cater to it.
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The issue with Windows 8 isn't the hardware manufacturer, it's Microsoft. If you want to sell a device with Windows 8 the bootloader HAS to be locked.
here's the article here on XDA http://goo.gl/rq4yw
I suppose bootlaoders COULD be unlocked, but UEFI might make things interesting.
And as for porting Windows 8 to other devices, that's fine if there is a walk through on how to do it, but dev's cant' just hand out pre-built roms with Windows 8 without violating copyright laws as you have to have a license to legally run Windows.
---------- Post added at 10:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 AM ----------
EndlessDissent said:
Windows ME
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haha won't let it go huh?
Seriously though, i don't blame you, with ME and ME 2.0 (vista) it just proves that they can't all be winners.
Personally i have no issues with Windows 7 and use it as my daily OS both at work and at home.
Windows 8 is going to cause issues when it's released, especially in the desktop market, people are going to freak out when they see Metro on their shiny new computer. I think Microsoft needs to build in some sort of auto detection for touch panels, if there isn't one, default to the classic desktop / start menu.
I love Win7, use it both at work and at home, and it's just a really good, solid, stable OS.
That said, I don't regret buying my Transformer with Android at all, for all the reasons stated above.
1) read the articles on that new hybrid tablet, it's riddled with air vents. It runs hot like a volcano and chews up batteries worse than the gameboy from my childhood. (oh you poor, poor aa batteries, you never stood a chance.)
2) it's locked down just as bad as apple. Sad to see them go this route. It's strange that in one product (the kinect) they leave it wide open and encourage hacking and user development, but then in other products (win8 on tablets, what are they calling it, some retarded name like RT or some ****?) they completely lock it down.
3) no dev support, and I don't see much coming in the near future.
4) It's a first gen product, almost all first gen products suck. at least for the tech world.
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Interesting discussion here. Google is obviously well aware of the potential threat from Windows 8 and it looks like they have begun their countering strategy:
Announced at noon today - Google Acquires Mobile Productivity Company Quickoffice - http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/05/google-acquires-mobile-productivity-company-quickoffice/
It will be interesting how Google will utilize this capability. Free native integration? Could be costly as they still have to pay licensing obligations to Microsoft around this software. Whatever it is, I have complete faith Google will provide a very attractive alternative to Windows 8. When it comes to innovation, I have no doubt in my mind which of the two companies comes out miles ahead.
edgemaster191 said:
The issue with Windows 8 isn't the hardware manufacturer, it's Microsoft. If you want to sell a device with Windows 8 the bootloader HAS to be locked.
here's the article here on XDA http://goo.gl/rq4yw
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That is true, that was my point in the first post I made in this thread. I was more pointing out that Android and flexible hardware to run it aren't going anywhere so long as its unchallenged in being a more free (as in speech) alternative.
David Dee said:
Interesting discussion here. Google is obviously well aware of the potential threat from Windows 8 and it looks like they have begun their countering strategy:
Announced at noon today - Google Acquires Mobile Productivity Company Quickoffice - http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/05/google-acquires-mobile-productivity-company-quickoffice/
It will be interesting how Google will utilize this capability. Free native integration? Could be costly as they still have to pay licensing obligations to Microsoft around this software. Whatever it is, I have complete faith Google will provide a very attractive alternative to Windows 8. When it comes to innovation, I have no doubt in my mind which of the two companies comes out miles ahead.
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That is interesting. Quickoffice has easily the best office suite for Android, if Google were to polish it up (and not gut its non-cloud capabilities) it could easily become a much more serious competitor to MS Office and, in turn make Android a better alternative to Win8 for productivity.
I think another thing to consider is the enterprise world. In giant corporations all over the world, employees are begging for tablets. IT departments are hesitant to give them Android or ipads. If a Windows 8 tablet does a lot to satisfy the IT departments of companies all over the world, I could see a lot of adoption coming from there.
RIM is pretty much dead nowadays, but that's how they made their (now gone) zillions.
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http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/30/3201524/microsoft-surface-release-date-october-26th
Surface for RT is coming at the same time as general release of Windows 8. Surface Pro will be available 90 days after. Like I've been guessing, RT will be priced competitive with comparable ARM tablets, which should mean it will be around $499. Pro will be priced like an Ultrabook, which should mean $899 at least, and could go even higher. Anyone going to start saving up now that we have a release date?
Saving for the ~$1K expected price of the Pro.
can't wait
can't wait for the Pro version...
But i wonder: why 90 days after? i mean, it's the best way to loose market share. Or perhaps, microsoft want to give OEM some weeks to announce products?
btw, i wonder alswo why OEM are not communicating about products based on Windows 8 currently
I love the design, and i love the idea to be able to work on a tablet, but really work: i mean with real softwares (visual studio for exemple, or even office) and not "kiddies" software as we can find on Ipad and Android based tablets...
That's why i didn't bought any tablets, waiting for a real computer.
(sorry for my english, if there are mistakes, keep in mind i'm french, and french poeple don't speak well foreign languages )
Maybe 90 days will see some Win 8 updates that could help the functionality?
ronaldheld said:
Maybe 90 days will see some Win 8 updates that could help the functionality?
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what functionality is broken?
warenbe said:
btw, i wonder alswo why OEM are not communicating about products based on Windows 8 currently
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I have also been wondering why we haven't heard anything yet about Windows 8 products from the OEMs. I'm most interested in Windows 8 laptops, since I'm hoping Microsoft will push the OEMs to start delivering better hardware-no more 1366x768 displays, better trackpads, better keyboards, etc. Obviously October 26th is when new Windows 8 products begin rolling out, so we should have some announcements from the OEMs in September, maybe we'll hear rumors and specs of devices as early as late August.
The Janitor Mop said:
I have also been wondering why we haven't heard anything yet about Windows 8 products from the OEMs. I'm most interested in Windows 8 laptops, since I'm hoping Microsoft will push the OEMs to start delivering better hardware-no more 1366x768 displays, better trackpads, better keyboards, etc. Obviously October 26th is when new Windows 8 products begin rolling out, so we should have some announcements from the OEMs in September, maybe we'll hear rumors and specs of devices as early as late August.
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they don't want to detract from current sales?
no need in shooting themselves in the foot!
ohgood said:
they don't want to detract from current sales?
no need in shooting themselves in the foot!
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Good point. Ultrabooks just haven't been as popular as the OEMs have hoped, and anyways a few new Windows 7 laptops are yet to come out (HP Envy Spectre XT). People will be buying 7 laptops less and less as Windows 8 draws near and it's in the press more, so they'll probably wait until they're satisfied Windows 7 laptop sales have bottomed out before introducing Windows 8 laptops.
The Janitor Mop said:
Good point. Ultrabooks just haven't been as popular as the OEMs have hoped, and anyways a few new Windows 7 laptops are yet to come out (HP Envy Spectre XT). People will be buying 7 laptops less and less as Windows 8 draws near and it's in the press more, so they'll probably wait until they're satisfied Windows 7 laptop sales have bottomed out before introducing Windows 8 laptops.
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nope, i dont agree: oem can announce products on Windows 7 and argues that these products will be compatible to W8, with a free upgrade.
warenbe said:
nope, i dont agree: oem can announce products on Windows 7 and argues that these products will be compatible to W8, with a free upgrade.
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I think my point still stands. Would you rather have a device that comes with Windows 8 or one that you can upgrade to Windows 8? I feel more confident in a device built for Windows 8, that it will run it better and just "fit" more properly with the OS. Whether or not that's the truth, it's how general consumers would think too. And I still believe that Windows 8 hardware will be more impressive than Windows 7 hardware. If a huge part of Windows 8 is trackpad improvements, I would think that the OEMs can build a better trackpad when they have Windows 8 to work with (rather than build a trackpad when they only have 7 to work with, and "hope" that the upgrade to Windows 8 will make the trackpad as impressive as a device that is built with Windows 8). Along with the fact that MS is obviously now telling the OEMs to get their crap together (Surface), I think we have solid reason to believe that hardware will be much improved with Windows 8-stock devices.
Think of an Android analogy: all specs aside, would you rather have a device that ships with Jelly Bean, or one that ships with ICS and can be upgraded later for sure? Yeah, with the ICS device, you know that you will be able to get JB, and you know that it will bring some considerable improvements, but isn't it just kind of an inherent thing to prefer the one that comes with JB in the first place?
The Janitor Mop said:
I think my point still stands. Would you rather have a device that comes with Windows 8 or one that you can upgrade to Windows 8? I feel more confident in a device built for Windows 8, that it will run it better and just "fit" more properly with the OS. Whether or not that's the truth, it's how general consumers would think too. And I still believe that Windows 8 hardware will be more impressive than Windows 7 hardware. If a huge part of Windows 8 is trackpad improvements, I would think that the OEMs can build a better trackpad when they have Windows 8 to work with (rather than build a trackpad when they only have 7 to work with, and "hope" that the upgrade to Windows 8 will make the trackpad as impressive as a device that is built with Windows 8). Along with the fact that MS is obviously now telling the OEMs to get their crap together (Surface), I think we have solid reason to believe that hardware will be much improved with Windows 8-stock devices.
Think of an Android analogy: all specs aside, would you rather have a device that ships with Jelly Bean, or one that ships with ICS and can be upgraded later for sure? Yeah, with the ICS device, you know that you will be able to get JB, and you know that it will bring some considerable improvements, but isn't it just kind of an inherent thing to prefer the one that comes with JB in the first place?
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this!
folks I know have been burned with " windows vista ultimate capable" and a few other kids, and remember it. unless its a sale person, on the road with a smashed laptop, I see people waiting..... just like when macbooks are due an upgrade.
The Janitor Mop said:
I think my point still stands. Would you rather have a device that comes with Windows 8 or one that you can upgrade to Windows 8? I feel more confident in a device built for Windows 8, that it will run it better and just "fit" more properly with the OS. Whether or not that's the truth, it's how general consumers would think too. And I still believe that Windows 8 hardware will be more impressive than Windows 7 hardware. If a huge part of Windows 8 is trackpad improvements, I would think that the OEMs can build a better trackpad when they have Windows 8 to work with (rather than build a trackpad when they only have 7 to work with, and "hope" that the upgrade to Windows 8 will make the trackpad as impressive as a device that is built with Windows 8). Along with the fact that MS is obviously now telling the OEMs to get their crap together (Surface), I think we have solid reason to believe that hardware will be much improved with Windows 8-stock devices.
Think of an Android analogy: all specs aside, would you rather have a device that ships with Jelly Bean, or one that ships with ICS and can be upgraded later for sure? Yeah, with the ICS device, you know that you will be able to get JB, and you know that it will bring some considerable improvements, but isn't it just kind of an inherent thing to prefer the one that comes with JB in the first place?
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yeah you're probably right, but i think average users and customers don't care about what is inside the computer. I mean, when someone of my family want to buy a computer, they always ask me "what should i take" and they show me some computers, usually they don't understand what "AMD" or "I5" mean.
so for exemple, if my parents or my sisters want to buy a computer today, they will take the "Windows 8 ready to upgrade" computer rather than "Windows 7" computer...
The Janitor Mop said:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/30/3201524/microsoft-surface-release-date-october-26th
Surface for RT is coming at the same time as general release of Windows 8. Surface Pro will be available 90 days after. Like I've been guessing, RT will be priced competitive with comparable ARM tablets, which should mean it will be around $499. Pro will be priced like an Ultrabook, which should mean $899 at least, and could go even higher. Anyone going to start saving up now that we have a release date?
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I'm gonna wait it out. My main use for my PC now a days it MS Office, and without Office 2013, the Surface Pro is just a fancy toy. There really aren't that many apps in the MS Store
coolqf said:
There really aren't that many apps in the MS Store
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Yet
There are more appearing every few days at the moment on Win8... more small devs but I see some bigger companies coming through.
coolqf said:
I'm gonna wait it out. My main use for my PC now a days it MS Office, and without Office 2013, the Surface Pro is just a fancy toy. There really aren't that many apps in the MS Store
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Surface Pro is x86 and will run older versions of Office that ran on Vista and Windows 7 too, though Surface Pro isn't due out until probably next year, x86 tablets running Windows 8 will probably come from other OEMS first, such as Lenovo.
I'm in the market to purchase a new tablet and I've dug around quite thoroughly in hopes of finding something that suits me. I started looking at a nexus device because Nexus devices are generally the best when it comes to Android (At least in terms of Software, Hardware I'll always go Motorola strictly for build quality.) I did my fair share of digging and stumbled into the Microsoft Store here in Austin not expecting much in the way of tablets outside of a Surface and I simply don't like the shape or feel of them (Though the build quality is superb and likely unparalleled outside of the Apple world.) I also couldn't justify $800 for a tablet unless it was as powerful as my gaming laptop that I spent roughly the same amount on.Looking around though, I found this Lenovo Miix 2 8. This thing really feels good. I mean, I've used all there is with Android but this thing feels like it's what Windows 8 was built for. The gestures are amazingly intuitive when you can reach them all, the OS is likely the most touch friendly of it's kind. It's the first tablet that I've used where I felt like I was using a full-scale OS brought down to a tablet size with the added benefit of touch input... It's not just an oversized phone and on top of that, it costs $50 less than the Android tablets I was considering. I have Borderlands 2 playing on this thing at a solid 28-32 FPS and it cost less than the competition. I've been using it for about two days now. I'm mostly an Android user and I'm wondering, is there any real benefit for me to turn this thing back in in my grace period and shuck out another $50 bucks for an Android tablet?
With android everythings intergrated. There's a lot more support with android . I was also looking at a ms tab not too long ago but I was turned off once I realized there wasn't much I could do with customizing the operating system. I like the new tab pro line but the pricing is a bit ridiculous.
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It really all depends on what your priorities are. I had a Windows tablet/phone for about a year and I absolutely loved the user experience. Personally, I think it was the best touch experience I've ever had in a mobile device, and my history of smartphone mobile device OSes has been android-->iOS-->windows phone 7-->windows 8/windows phone 8--> android.
Each device is made for a particular audience and thus will be good at different things. As a consumer device targeted at business users and your average consumers, windows 8 devices do a great job providing a beautiful UI with an intuitive user interface as well as the ability to run desktop applications if needed.
The reason I ultimately went back to Android was because I missed the customizability of it. That and I love the fact that if I want, I can go look at the source for most of the components on my phone, and if I'm really irked about something I can modify it.
If you're just looking for a device to use for entertainment and things like document editing, email, social media, etc, a Windows device will provide an amazing user experience. I wouldn't advocate dropping the tablet you already have to go to android unless there's something specific about Android that you want. As much I loved going back to Android, selling my Lumia 810 was hard for me because I really loved the interface. If Microsoft should ever open source windows phone 8 and make windows 8/windows phone 8 as customizable as android, I'd go back to it in a heartbeat.
Kohelet said:
It really all depends on what your priorities are. I had a Windows tablet/phone for about a year and I absolutely loved the user experience. Personally, I think it was the best touch experience I've ever had in a mobile device, and my history of smartphone mobile device OSes has been android-->iOS-->windows phone 7-->windows 8/windows phone 8--> android.
Each device is made for a particular audience and thus will be good at different things. As a consumer device targeted at business users and your average consumers, windows 8 devices do a great job providing a beautiful UI with an intuitive user interface as well as the ability to run desktop applications if needed.
The reason I ultimately went back to Android was because I missed the customizability of it. That and I love the fact that if I want, I can go look at the source for most of the components on my phone, and if I'm really irked about something I can modify it.
If you're just looking for a device to use for entertainment and things like document editing, email, social media, etc, a Windows device will provide an amazing user experience. I wouldn't advocate dropping the tablet you already have to go to android unless there's something specific about Android that you want. As much I loved going back to Android, selling my Lumia 810 was hard for me because I really loved the interface. If Microsoft should ever open source windows phone 8 and make windows 8/windows phone 8 as customizable as android, I'd go back to it in a heartbeat.
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I don't think there will ever be more support for Android than full Windows, it's just not viable and ChromeOS is a sad, strange joke. This is an entertainment and social device. I couldn't care less about customization. I move my apps into their folders and I'm content. I do apologize if I sounded rude in the initial part of this, it was mostly for the other guy. I'm OS agnostic and just use what's more user friendly and Android's OS just isn't as touch friendly or appealing regardless of modification. Live tiles just look cooler. I think I'll likely stick with the Lenovo. I'd rather have a PC that fits in my back pocket as opposed to a slightly larger phone minus the service plan.
I'd go for a Windows tablet if I'd want to work related stuff and all.
I think its up for you to decide. Check both Pros and Cons, have fun checking specifications and reviews about your desired devices.
Poecifer said:
I don't think there will ever be more support for Android than full Windows, it's just not viable and ChromeOS is a sad, strange joke. This is an entertainment and social device. I couldn't care less about customization. I move my apps into their folders and I'm content. I do apologize if I sounded rude in the initial part of this, it was mostly for the other guy. I'm OS agnostic and just use what's more user friendly and Android's OS just isn't as touch friendly or appealing regardless of modification. Live tiles just look cooler. I think I'll likely stick with the Lenovo. I'd rather have a PC that fits in my back pocket as opposed to a slightly larger phone minus the service plan.
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Different strokes for different folks. Each has their uses and target audience. Congrats on finding a new home!
I've tried both a Windows tablet and an assortment of Android devices, though my views may be a bit biased as a Linux/Android user/developer. Overall, I feel that the user experience of an Android device is much smoother, more integrated, and overall more enjoyable. From a developers standpoint, I find Android to be more simplistic (in terms of ease of development), and yet far more advanced in terms of what I can actually do.
There is also something to be said about the scope of what Microsoft can do, vs what Google can do. IMO, although I find Google to be much more assertive in our daily lives, they are able to create a much more enjoyable user experience than Microsoft can.
In short? I'd shell out the extra $50 for the Android.
joeb3219 said:
I've tried both a Windows tablet and an assortment of Android devices, though my views may be a bit biased as a Linux/Android user/developer. Overall, I feel that the user experience of an Android device is much smoother, more integrated, and overall more enjoyable. From a developers standpoint, I find Android to be more simplistic (in terms of ease of development), and yet far more advanced in terms of what I can actually do.
There is also something to be said about the scope of what Microsoft can do, vs what Google can do. IMO, although I find Google to be much more assertive in our daily lives, they are able to create a much more enjoyable user experience than Microsoft can.
In short? I'd shell out the extra $50 for the Android.
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I've had the opposite experience. Android's dev tools are awful... Likely the worst of the lot. Microsoft put a ton of work into their development suite and it shows. That and Android has never been a smooth experience for me. It's one I've mostly enjoyed but I've had a lot of battery pulls, force closes, and ill-responsive devices en route to that point. Sure, you have system access but honestly, it almost needs it to be usable on anything outside of a Nexus device. I don't see where Android creates a better user experience on any front.
Android Win
Well, I never have or own a window phone or windows tablet ever so I cannot said much about it. However, as an Android user, I have more privilege on doing whatever I want to my phone or to my tablet (Kindle fire) like root my phone and tablet. I still own a SG2! it is still running smoothly with milestone installed. I guess it is up to the users. Users that like to modified their phones tend to go beyond a regular user. Users that are not really into modifying their phones tend to just go with original stock. On the tablet side, I love doing thing like rooting and modifying to something else like replace amazon store with google play store. I guess I do not like anything without root.
Poecifer said:
I've had the opposite experience. Android's dev tools are awful... Likely the worst of the lot. Microsoft put a ton of work into their development suite and it shows. That and Android has never been a smooth experience for me. It's one I've mostly enjoyed but I've had a lot of battery pulls, force closes, and ill-responsive devices en route to that point. Sure, you have system access but honestly, it almost needs it to be usable on anything outside of a Nexus device. I don't see where Android creates a better user experience on any front.
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MS dev tools are pretty nice, but that's because they have to be. Android's not really meant to be a centralized and standardized experience. It's meant to succeed or fail based on the motivation and effort of the open source community. It's a much smoother ride when MS controls all of the internals and the only way to actually make changes is through their tools.
I have never enjoyed the interface of the windows devices, I felt they were too restricted in what was available for them compared to android. Im speaking from past experience so im not sure what todays devices are like but its Android all the way for me, also the support for android is widespread, i think you would be hard pressed to find more help than whats available for android.
"What reason is there to buy an Android tablet over a Windows tablet?"
It's not windows. Nuff said.
nais inpoh gan :highfive:
I suggest you tou an Android tablet (especially Google Nexus 7 2013 version). Android is highly customisable, has more features and is way more easier to use. The User Interface is very friendly and the tablet's performance is so smooth. You won't regret buying Nexus 7 or another Android tablet. A thing that Windows tablets doesn't have is CyanogenMod, SlimKat and the rest magical stuff. Think about it. It's up to you.
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In my opinion, the sole reason would be selection of Apps
cAPTAIN^k said:
In my opinion, the sole reason would be selection of Apps
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That's right. There are 700.00+ apps to choose from Google Play. Also you can install apps that do not come from the Market (a.k.a. unknown sources).
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They both got their perks, I would say android tablet, I own a Sony Xperia Tablet S and a galaxy note 8.0 and its does everything from reading magazines, playing games, working on word/excel/etc... Haven't touch windows since their shenanigans on windows vista
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Microsoft is very weak in tablet technology. There are few Metro applications comparing with the Android market. And regarding to desktop applications, they are not optimized to be used with touch screens at all. Moreover, the are not optimized for small displays neither. Even in my 10.1 netbook screen, some applications have problems to layout its windows correctly.
dimsar2013 said:
That's right. There are 700.000+ apps to choose from Google Play. Also you can install apps that do not come from the Market (a.k.a. unknown sources).
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integration and personlisation