I'm an AT&T subscriber and i've been waiting on the Nexus one or compatible device.
I really don't know which is better between the nexus and the desire, but I know I do like the Physical buttons and the optical trackpad on the desire. I'm just not sure I want the Sense UI over Android.
Does the Sense UI still allow animated backgrounds and have all the features that vanilla Android has?
My main concern is the fact that it seems to take manufacturers with UI over Android a while to upgrade to the latest Version of Android.
So what do you guys think the best choice will be? And how hard will it be to remove Sense off the Desire and make it Vanilla Anroid? Will it then get the OTA updates just like the NExus One?
elijahblake said:
I'm an AT&T subscriber and i've been waiting on the Nexus one or compatible device.
I really don't know which is better between the nexus and the desire, but I know I do like the Physical buttons and the optical trackpad on the desire. I'm just not sure I want the Sense UI over Android.
Does the Sense UI still allow animated backgrounds and have all the features that vanilla Android has?
My main concern is the fact that it seems to take manufacturers with UI over Android a while to upgrade to the latest Version of Android.
So what do you guys think the best choice will be? And how hard will it be to remove Sense off the Desire and make it Vanilla Anroid? Will it then get the OTA updates just like the NExus One?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes someone can make a stock android 2.1 rom for the desire. HTC SENSE UI has everything that stock android has except (correct me if I'm wrong) the new launcher.
In every htc sense device you can just turn off sense and just use stock android so no problem there.
The device won't get major updates from google (like OS upgrades) but it might get minor updates (like 3G fixes, bug fixes, newer flash)
Just so that you know Sense UI is android except with a skin, like sense on the hd2.
I would get the Desire (you get both stock and sense ui, the desire has more RAM then the nexus one, the desire looks much better and sleeker.)
Agreed. Couple points:
1. I own a Nexus. It's very good. I'm a WinMo guy and it was good enough to convert me to a phone with no keyboard.
2. I'ld get the desire. Its almost like a 2nd gen N1. Takes away most common faults: bad network coverage, problems with capacitive buttons, vanilla interface.
3. Furthermore, Sense is great. Coming from an HTC WinMo phone I reeeaeaally missed Sense. Android clocks look cheesy while sense looks classy. There is now a dedicated phone button on the screen. My number one complaint was I hate the way iphones find contacts to call them. It's like 4 clicks and a ton of scrolling. Android is like that. But with Sense on, Sense dialer is a smart dialer. Just start typing their name on dialpad (dad = 323) and it quickly finds the number.
4. Although sense can be turned off, its not "just" a launcher. Its also a dialer, a contact app, an entire new homescreen with 7 screens and specialized htc widgets preprogrammed into them, with saveable custom homescreens called "scenes." New weather app, new app drawer with no 3d effects. Also, Sense ("Rosie") is said by Rom chiefs to be built deep into the "framework" of Android, which is why they sadly havent just ported the apps to stock yet.
thanks guys, Looks like the Desire is the best choice then... Now I just hope that it really comes to AT&T. And SOON!!!
i wonder if at&t will screw up the desire like they did with the backflop?
Brickflop, you mean. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Desire gets the same treatment.
Would like to start a general discussion here.
Would it be a good idea if Google only use android on their own ( Motorola) hardware?
Take this as current state and not the changes in ice cream.
Currently android is a mess 6 versions of the the os in the market.
Three main ones app makers have to support.
I love aosp so I use cm7 as I missed the nexus one and the nexus s didn't have an SD card.
I have tried touchwiz on a galaxy s. Sense on a hero and desire HD. Motoblur on a dext and defy.
They add nothing all they do is slow down the phone and updates.
Why do company's feel the need to add old ui's ( most are ported from older model phones)
Something I miss from my iphones was updates on all devices as the same time, no waiting around for a manufactor to mess around with it,then a network to spoil it even more, then for me to get it after a slow roll out.
So maybe android needs to take a look at ios and think why do app devs like it more? Why do normal users like it more?( XDA users are not normal users)
I would like one of three things to happen.
1- all android phones are aosp.
2- added UI are installable as an option not bundled into the phone.
3- Google to only release phones for purity.
Would like to see peoples thoughts on this.
And also if you like a UI why do you like it? what do you think it adds?
I repair things I am not a writer so hope its coherent enough to get the jist.
Sent from my Tablet
HTC, Samsung, Moto, etc... they put those UIs on to dumb down the OS. Make it simple. Simple sells.
Simple UI plus a Powerful OS = great sales!
But sense adds even more settings and more to the lockscreen more everything.
Motoblur seems to need a blur account then you need your Google account for market.
Not that simple to me.
Touchwiz just seems to change things not add or take away.
Sent from my Phone
All of those make it simple. How do you add to the lock screen on stock Android?
vetvito said:
All of those make it simple. How do you add to the lock screen on stock Android?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't on stock its a simple unlock or mute
Sent from my Phone
What makes apple so "great" in most customers eyes is the simplicity. I love android just for the fact that there are so many ways time customize it it's ridiculous. Example: apple had to release almost 5 generations of the iPhone just to try to keep up with the android.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
aurgerman said:
Example: apple had to release almost 5 generations of the iPhone just to try to keep up with the android.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure I agree with that.
Android only really took over apple when android got to 2.2( not everyone even has that yet)
Ios is very rock soil and before ios4 didn't really crash on me. I have only started noticing problems since ios4.
And with the customization with our phones there is a limit to what you can theme on stock rom without root.
Installing cydia on ios devices you get loads of themes and changes some of them are even better then android visually.
Sent from my Phone
Are you sure ^ ? 2.2 - 2.3 is on 85% of Android devices right now.
Let's keep in mind that all these companies need to distinguish themselves from their competition. Consider all the competing phones based on, say, the ARM A8 platform. With similar core hardware under the hood running the same underlying OS, the interface is simply the best place to make a given model noticeably distinct to the average consumer.
Google may not be thrilled with platform fragmentation, but I'd wager that the various royalties / licensing fees / brand recognition opportunities / whatever more than make up for it. Going full-turtle would be bad business. Just my 2 cents...
Sent from my SCH-I500 using xda premium
iammodo said:
3- Google to only release phones for purity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Coming soon from Google: AryanOS, locked down tighter than **** Cheney's butthole to guarantee purity!
/Godwinned
Sent from my SCH-I500 using xda premium
vetvito said:
HTC, Samsung, Moto, etc... they put those UIs on to dumb down the OS. Make it simple. Simple sells.
Simple UI plus a Powerful OS = great sales!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So true.
Also, Google, Moto, Sammy, and HTC don't fight back enough with carriers, mainly Verizon, against bloat. Verizon would probably say "To hell with Android then" if they did, since they don't have as much leverage as the iPhone and Apple.
Jazz is also right. If every manufacture had stock on their phones, you wouldn't know which to choose since there would be no difference. Only buyers, like us, that actually care about the speed of a phone, and the ram and rom and all that jazz would know the differences, but average users wouldn't. Hell, my sister, who is only 21, doesn't understand the difference between a Droid and an Android phone, she assumes that every phone that runs Android is a Droid...like my aunt's Evo. (lol)
I actually like Sense, especially Sense 3.5. I think it makes Android look a little nicer, especially if you don't want to root or use custom roms. Touchwiz is also kinda nice, but it's really just the launcher that is changed. Blur is a piece of doodoo though. Can't even install the Facebook app onto my X2 because of Blur's useless Facebook integration that works like hell. Tells me everything I don't want to know, and nothing that I do.
I seriously don't see the point of bloat anyways. If the app is already installed on my phone and I never use it, what is the difference between that and it not being on my phone entirely. If I wanted the dang app, I would've clicked the Verizon tab in the market and downloaded VCast or VMusic. Best answer is probably that Verizon has some stupid person in HR or whatever deciding on what is preinstalled on the phone, instead of the actual consumer. (Then again, I don't see the point in a Facebook phone as well..)
Thanks
Enviado desde mi SM-G925F mediante Tapatalk
Its like looking into a time machine , i remember iOS3 & 4 when it was as simple as jailbreak.me man it used to be so easy :/
Huge time for us droid users on Verizon Wireless, some heavy hitting phones come out and i wanted to get some feedback from the developer community on the NEXUS side of things because initially this was the one device i really wanted.
Are you all still sold on the NEXUS even though its hardware specs are considerably less than what is offered by the:
HTC Rezound
(Dual 1.5 Ghz / True HD display, Pure Beats Audio SDcard/HDMI)
Motorolla RAZR
(Dual 1.2 Super AMOLED Advanced display and high quality materials in build/HDMI/SDCard -granted no removable battery )?
Do you think it would be better to go with the hardware and root/flash to Ice cream Sandwich later on?
I can confirm that Verizon is going to load this phone up with all sorts of preinstalled junk but obviously this is removable by anyone who roots their device, but how easy will it be to root something on 4.0 given that there isnt much out there for it?
I personally was dying for a Droid with Icecream Sandwich on it but im afraid to jump on board with Samsung again because of the known issues with the antennae in the phone (dropping service, poor 4G to 3G transition, all of which are confirmed issues with have haunted Verizon's 4G Samsung offerings)
-sigh- Yet another thread about comparing specs...
The GNexus has already been rooted. And it'll run pure Android over an unlock(ed/able) bootloader, so there would be little standing in the way of rooting it otherwise.
I've been waiting on the GN for about a year, ever since I started getting tired of my OG's sluggish performance.
_hyperdude said:
-sigh- Yet another thread about comparing specs...
The GNexus has already been rooted. And it'll run pure Android over an unlock(ed/able) bootloader, so there would be little standing in the way of rooting it otherwise.
I've been waiting on the GN for about a year, ever since I started getting tired of my OG's sluggish performance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it kind of surprises me there isnt a clear winner among these devices on this site. Why one over the other when your going to root and rom it anyways so why look at anything but hardware? If this isnt the case then maybe i need to be educated.
Also didnt mean it as really a "specs" comparison. I know the other ones are better, I just wanted to hear if you all think 4.0 is that much better that its worth going for this device or if there was some magic bullet in the samsung that just made it a clear victor
Droid RAZR: MotoBlur
HTC Rezound: HTC Sense 3.5
Galaxy Nexus: Stock Android 4.0
Galaxy Nexus wins. Game over. Thread closed.
PsychoSimatic said:
Well it kind of surprises me there isnt a clear winner among these devices on this site. Why one over the other when your going to root and rom it anyways so why look at anything but hardware? If this isnt the case then maybe i need to be educated.
Also didnt mean it as really a "specs" comparison. I know the other ones are better, I just wanted to hear if you all think 4.0 is that much better that its worth going for this device or if there was some magic bullet in the samsung that just made it a clear victor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Listen. This phone was the phone Google used to DEVELOP ICS. Which means by nature its going to have the best time running ICS. That's why I'm getting it, and I'm sure why some others are attracted to the Nexus Line
I am my mom's "little elitest"
Deal with it!
PsychoSimatic said:
Well it kind of surprises me there isnt a clear winner among these devices on this site. Why one over the other when your going to root and rom it anyways so why look at anything but hardware? If this isnt the case then maybe i need to be educated.
Also didnt mean it as really a "specs" comparison. I know the other ones are better, I just wanted to hear if you all think 4.0 is that much better that its worth going for this device or if there was some magic bullet in the samsung that just made it a clear victor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also have to consider bootloaders and xda development.... since you are posting here, you must be interested in enhancement of your phone.
When you add those to the overall specs, and that the nexus is a world phone... (added development on xda) its hard not to chose the GN, IMHO.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
PsychoSimatic said:
HTC Rezound
(Dual 1.5 Ghz / True HD display, Pure Beats Audio SDcard/HDMI)
Motorolla RAZR
(Dual 1.2 Super AMOLED Advanced display and high quality materials in build/HDMI/SDCard -granted no removable battery )?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just some thoughts.
The Rezound's 1.5GHz qualcomm chip is probably slower than the 1.2GHz OMAP4460. The Nexus is also a 'true' 720p display (sub-pixel arrangement doesn't change that,) the Beats label was laughed out of the audiophile world and into smartphones - where it became an equalizer that accentuates bass. In addition, the Rezound uses MHL for video-out (HDMI,) just like the Nexus
The RAZR is much more comparable to the Nexus. The Nexus has a far superior screen, but you lose out on the microSD slot and the build materials (and ultra-thinness.) The dedicated HDMI port is a boon though, since MHL displays are nonexistant at this point. Funnily enough, my main con with the RAZR is the supercolossal side bezel.
For me it's between the Nexus and the RAZR. If there turns out to be no 32GB GSM Nexus, or if I can't get it here, I'll take a hard look at the RAZR. And probably end up waiting for a Tegra 3 phone instead.
You make it sound like there's a phone that doesn't have bad 3G to 4G transitions on Verizon. They all have issues as far as I know. Whether the nexus has decent reception or not we won't know until later...but no reason to assume any worse.
S
PsychoSimatic said:
Huge time for us droid users on Verizon Wireless, some heavy hitting phones come out and i wanted to get some feedback from the developer community on the NEXUS side of things because initially this was the one device i really wanted.
Are you all still sold on the NEXUS even though its hardware specs are considerably less than what is offered by the:
HTC Rezound
(Dual 1.5 Ghz / True HD display, Pure Beats Audio SDcard/HDMI)
Motorolla RAZR
(Dual 1.2 Super AMOLED Advanced display and high quality materials in build/HDMI/SDCard -granted no removable battery )?
Do you think it would be better to go with the hardware and root/flash to Ice cream Sandwich later on?
I can confirm that Verizon is going to load this phone up with all sorts of preinstalled junk but obviously this is removable by anyone who roots their device, but how easy will it be to root something on 4.0 given that there isnt much out there for it?
I personally was dying for a Droid with Icecream Sandwich on it but im afraid to jump on board with Samsung again because of the known issues with the antennae in the phone (dropping service, poor 4G to 3G transition, all of which are confirmed issues with have haunted Verizon's 4G Samsung offerings)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Nexus is far superior in EVERY aspect. Even in specs. Nexus has OMAP 4460 Razr has OMAP 4430 and Rezound has the same ol MSM8660. The Nexus is UNDERCLOCKED at 1.2 ghz and the 4460 usually runs at 1.5 ghz stock. Not to mention the software on the Nexus which is obviously 4.0 has been built around that specific hardware. So if Google optimized ICS for that specific hardware setup that shows you something. It will run better on that setup then any other around. Not to mention you can OEM unlock the Nexus and you'll have to wait for exploits on the Rezound and the Razr you'll get some awful bootstrap application that won't even save you in a soft brick situation. To me the superior device is so obvious. The Razr is clearly marketed towards the average everyday user who just wants to make calls/text browse the web and do dumb things like Facebook. The Rezound will most likely be able to do the same things that the Nexus will be able to do though as long as it gets s-off (which I'm pretty sure it will, but when will it is the question). The development community is going to be absolutely HUGE on the Nexus, I am willing to bet it's going to be the biggest development community on a VZW phone since the original Moto DROID. Once again the choice is a no brainer to me and the majority of the people I know in the community. Nobody wants that crappy Razr and HTC does have nice hardware but they really need to switch up their style of devices. They are sexy as hell but the same old style is getting old IMO. Time for a little change HTC!
---------- Post added at 09:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 AM ----------
itsjusttim said:
Also have to consider bootloaders and xda development.... since you are posting here, you must be interested in enhancement of your phone.
When you add those to the overall specs, and that the nexus is a world phone... (added development on xda) its hard not to chose the GN, IMHO.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhhh, when did the Nexus become a world phone? The LTE version is NOT a world phone at all, and it's pretty clear that's the version he's talking about since he's comparing it to others on VZW.
Nice...
Honestly this was exactly the response i was hoping for, thank you
now im literally foaming at the mouth to get my nexus
martonikaj said:
Droid RAZR: MotoBlur
HTC Rezound: HTC Sense 3.5
Galaxy Nexus: Stock Android 4.0
Galaxy Nexus wins. Game over. Thread closed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THIS and everything about it.
The following is not my writing but it more or less sums up my feelings on the Android Universe.
http://www.technobuffalo.com/compan...-looking-at-android-all-wrong-user-submitted/
RVDigital said:
THIS and everything about it.
The following is not my writing but it more or less sums up my feelings on the Android Universe.
http://www.technobuffalo.com/compan...-looking-at-android-all-wrong-user-submitted/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree with this post, and what that user said in his.
They are not different operating systems. As much as you think Sense, Blur, and TouchWiz are different OSes or whatever, its just a SKIN. A theme. That's it. Nexus devices are just pure Android with no Skinning.
So you can take an HTC, Motorola or Samsung device, root it, and install an AOSP Rom of your choice. CM7 for example, and look... you have a pure Android Device too. You can't however, take an iPhone and install a fully functional Android OS on it.
So I look at devices for their hardware, not themeing or skins that can be easily removed and replaced. I can't however take out the CPU and drop something newer or better in it... or change out a monitor/display like you can on a desktop.
Sent from my SCH-I400 using Tapatalk
Tornlogic said:
I have to disagree with this post, and what that user said in his.
They are not different operating systems. As much as you think Sense, Blur, and TouchWiz are different OSes or whatever, its just a SKIN. A theme. That's it. Nexus devices are just pure Android with no Skinning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never said that they are completely different OSes, but they're pretty darn close (looking at you, Sense). My point is that although it is just a skin, you can't remove it. You can't get rid of it, and you can't disable it out of the box.
So you can take an HTC, Motorola or Samsung device, root it, and install an AOSP Rom of your choice. CM7 for example, and look... you have a pure Android Device too. You can't however, take an iPhone and install a fully functional Android OS on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off, who said anything about an iPhone? Going to disregard that part.
Yes, obviously you can root and custom ROM your phone. But why should I have to root my phone just to get the experience that I want? Is it too much to ask to just get the OS and setup I want right out of the box? Or at least have the option to turn off the OEM and carrier **** they put on it?
So I look at devices for their hardware, not themeing or skins that can be easily removed and replaced. I can't however take out the CPU and drop something newer or better in it... or change out a monitor/display like you can on a desktop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to respectfully disagree. The hardware specs are good to keep in mind, but they aren't everything. The difference of a couple hundred mhz processor, or slightly different memory config, or dimensions don't have to be the only thing you factor your buying decision on.
With a device like a Nexus, you can really consider the phone for its entire experience, and what it comes out of the box as. You've got to realize that sometimes that's important to people. I shouldn't have to buy a phone and root it the moment I get home just to have a usable experience. And I know its stupid, but I just can't keep supporting companies that completely destroy Android like that.
You can have fun buying your phone and waiting for a root method, then flashing a new ROM and watching as dev support drops off and you're left with an old ROM on your phone. I'm going Nexus this time around, and don't plan on doing anything else.
Tornlogic said:
I have to disagree with this post, and what that user said in his.
They are not different operating systems. As much as you think Sense, Blur, and TouchWiz are different OSes or whatever, its just a SKIN. A theme. That's it. Nexus devices are just pure Android with no Skinning.
So you can take an HTC, Motorola or Samsung device, root it, and install an AOSP Rom of your choice. CM7 for example, and look... you have a pure Android Device too. You can't however, take an iPhone and install a fully functional Android OS on it.
So I look at devices for their hardware, not themeing or skins that can be easily removed and replaced. I can't however take out the CPU and drop something newer or better in it... or change out a monitor/display like you can on a desktop.
Sent from my SCH-I400 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Consider the following...
Saying Sense, TouchWiz, and MotoBlur are simply "Skins" on top of stock AOSP is like saying Ubuntu, Mint Linux, and the various other Debian Bases are "Skins" of Debian. Yes, they all share the same BASE, but this is the only thing they have in common. HTC, Samsung, and Moto have deeply integrated their UIs into the Android platform and have basically made it their own.
As the poster above me stated, the skins cannot be simply removed. If that was the case, I would have AOSP on my EVO 3D by now. Since HTC has decided to deeply integrate their drivers into their Sense Android Operating system framework, "Vanilla Android" is not possible at this time.
RVDigital said:
Consider the following...
Saying Sense, TouchWiz, and MotoBlur are simply "Skins" on top of stock AOSP is like saying Ubuntu, Mint Linux, and the various other Debian Bases are "Skins" of Debian. Yes, they all share the same BASE, but this is the only thing they have in common. HTC, Samsung, and Moto have deeply integrated their UIs into the Android platform and have basically made it their own.
As the poster above me stated, the skins cannot be simply removed. If that was the case, I would have AOSP on my EVO 3D by now. Since HTC has decided to deeply integrate their drivers into their Sense Android Operating system framework, "Vanilla Android" is not possible at this time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. Yes, Sense/Touchwiz/Blur are "skins" or themes over Android, but it goes deeper than that. It's not just a theme like you see themes for different ROMs coming out (where different colors and background images are used) - it goes down to the firmware level, with drivers to run the redesigned apps and add extra functionality (or take some away).
RVDigital said:
Consider the following...
Saying Sense, TouchWiz, and MotoBlur are simply "Skins" on top of stock AOSP is like saying Ubuntu, Mint Linux, and the various other Debian Bases are "Skins" of Debian. Yes, they all share the same BASE, but this is the only thing they have in common. HTC, Samsung, and Moto have deeply integrated their UIs into the Android platform and have basically made it their own.
As the poster above me stated, the skins cannot be simply removed. If that was the case, I would have AOSP on my EVO 3D by now. Since HTC has decided to deeply integrate their drivers into their Sense Android Operating system framework, "Vanilla Android" is not possible at this time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ubuntu, Mint, Debian are all just distros; Sense, TouchWiz, and MotoBlur are just skins. They are not operating systems. The operating systems are, in the first case, GNU/Linux; and in the second case, Android. The operating system provides a set of libraries and defines a set of standards for programs to run on the OS. Just like any program made for GNU/Linux on x86 will run on any x86 system running GNU/Linux, regardless of whether it's running Debian or Ubuntu or Mint, any program made for Android on ARMv7 will run on any ARMv7 system running Android, regardless of whether it's running TouchWiz or Sense or MotoBLUR. In the case of Ubuntu, Debian, Mint etc. we call them distros because they include a set of choices of components in addition to the GNu/Linux base system (package managers, window managers, desktop environments, etc.). In the case of TouchWiz, Sense, etc. we call them skins because they include a customized look & feel and a set of additional applications and widgets that run on top of the OS. You might argue that these might be called distros, but that's a bit of a stretch because the customizations provided by these don't extend far beyond the look & feel and some additional utilities that run on top of the Android base system, and possibly some native drivers for each manufacturer's hardware. It is not quite as extensive a customization as a distro, they are more like standard Android bundled with a custom skin and some additional apps and drivers. They are certainly not different OSes.
Chirality said:
Ubuntu, Mint, Debian are all just distros; Sense, TouchWiz, and MotoBlur are just skins. They are not operating systems. The operating systems are, in the first case, GNU/Linux; and in the second case, Android. The operating system provides a set of libraries and defines a set of standards for programs to run on the OS. Just like any program made for GNU/Linux on x86 will run on any x86 system running GNU/Linux, regardless of whether it's running Debian or Ubuntu or Mint, any program made for Android on ARMv7 will run on any ARMv7 system running Android, regardless of whether it's running TouchWiz or Sense or MotoBLUR. In the case of Ubuntu, Debian, Mint etc. we call them distros because they include a set of choices of components in addition to the GNu/Linux base system (package managers, window managers, desktop environments, etc.). In the case of TouchWiz, Sense, etc. we call them skins because they include a customized look & feel and a set of additional applications and widgets that run on top of the OS. You might argue that these might be called distros, but that's a bit of a stretch because the customizations provided by these don't extend far beyond the look & feel and some additional utilities that run on top of the Android base system, and possibly some native drivers for each manufacturer's hardware. It is not quite as extensive a customization as a distro, they are more like standard Android bundled with a custom skin and some additional apps and drivers. They are certainly not different OSes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I realize that the analogy I provided is not a 1:1 example. I will substitute "Branch" for my use of the word "Distro" in the previous example to better explain the point of view.
In reply to your post I ask, how do you explain the deep framework integration manufactures such as HTC utilize to a point where the removal of such framework from the base AOSP causes hardware to stop functioning? I cant simply accept that this is a "Skin" of the base, I see HTC Sense as a BRANCH of the Android base.
The point is, its not even close to Google's idea or implementation of Android. When you add things to the base experience, you're going to run into unique (positive/negative) consequences that one otherwise wouldn't with AOSP. Take for example, HTCs recent controversy over their "Spyware" that was integrated into the Sense branch.
RVDigital said:
I realize that the analogy I provided is not a 1:1 example. I will substitute "Branch" for my use of the word "Distro" in the previous example to better explain the point of view.
In reply to your post I ask, how do you explain the deep framework integration manufactures such as HTC utilize to a point where the removal of such framework from the base AOSP causes hardware to stop functioning? I cant simply accept that this is a "Skin" of the base, I see HTC Sense as a BRANCH of the Android base.
The point is, its not even close to Google's idea or implementation of Android. When you add things to the base experience, you're going to run into unique (positive/negative) consequences that one otherwise wouldn't with AOSP. Take for example, HTCs recent controversy over their "Spyware" that was integrated into the Sense branch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not framework integration that's preventing you from using AOSP on your HTC device, it's the availability of device drivers. If HTC made all their device drivers available in source form, then you can just build these for AOSP and use AOSP on HTC devices with full functionality. The skin and the drivers can be decoupled - the skin may contain certain utilities that depend on some drivers to function, but the drivers shouldn't depend on the skin or its included apps to function. Imagine if Asus designed some special hardware that runs on their x86-based computers and sold a version of Windows that includes these special drivers that are not available anywhere else, then you have to buy Asus' version of Windows to run on these Asus computers, but it's still just Windows, with some extra drivers, not a fork of Windows. Of course you can't do this with Windows since it's a proprietary system, but it's done with Linux and Android, for better or worse.
Quick question: Do you guys think that the distribution of developer support for these phones? After all, the reason that most of us are here are because of the community, and its the dev community is what makes phones today great, and I just want to pick a phone that will have a large developer following.
Chirality said:
It's not framework integration that's preventing you from using AOSP on your HTC device, it's the availability of device drivers. If HTC made all their device drivers available in source form, then you can just build these for AOSP and use AOSP on HTC devices with full functionality. The skin and the drivers can be decoupled - the skin may contain certain utilities that depend on some drivers to function, but the drivers shouldn't depend on the skin or its included apps to function. Imagine if Asus designed some special hardware that runs on their x86-based computers and sold a version of Windows that includes these special drivers that are not available anywhere else, then you have to buy Asus' version of Windows to run on these Asus computers, but it's still just Windows, with some extra drivers, not a fork of Windows. Of course you can't do this with Windows since it's a proprietary system, but it's done with Linux and Android, for better or worse.
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The problem is HTC does NOT provide the necessary driver source and thus it remains closed. They have taken an originally open source platform and effectively locked it down, short of closing it. I have a hard time understanding how this can simply be called a "Skin". Nothing about Sense is necessary for the Android experience, it's simply paint, wallpaper, and furniture.
It's like comparing Oranges and Grapefruit. Similar, even in the same family, but NOT the same.
Do y'all think that companies like HTC, sammy etc will theme ICS a lot or will they leave it rather vanilla such as they did with most of the HC tablets?
Small changes like Honeycomb+Touchwiz would be nice.
They will continue to add sense and touchwiz. That is the manufacturers selling point to draw in the average consumer. Without it, they wouldn't be able to build a loyal fan base.
Yep, they will theme it complete with the extra 6 months update turn around...
hmm, long time to go for ics..
One thing i liked about honeycomb was that there was consistency yet there were slight differences (except Gtab) I have nothing against skins but ICS lets you freeze apps right... what if they let you freeze the skin allowing you to use vanilla
MrDrumngun said:
Do y'all think that companies like HTC, sammy etc will theme ICS a lot or will they leave it rather vanilla such as they did with most of the HC tablets?
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No, they'll load it up with Bloatware and horrible skins as normal. Only the Nexus will be Vanilla, or the custom AOSP ROM route as usual.
So this means that Google has asoultely no power (/will) to stop the fragmentation of the user experience. Good. My hope is that, at some point, Android becomes "like" WP7, meaning that manifacturers can only add a few removable apps if they want to, but they're not allowed to touch the OS. Anyway this isn't very likely to happen because unlike Microsoft Google doesn't sell an OS, they just sell ads, so in the end they basically don't give a flying **** about the consistency of the user experience
vnvman said:
So this means that Google has asoultely no power (/will) to stop the fragmentation of the user experience. Good. My hope is that, at some point, Android becomes "like" WP7, meaning that manifacturers can only add a few removable apps if they want to, but they're not allowed to touch the OS. Anyway this isn't very likely to happen because unlike Microsoft Google doesn't sell an OS, they just sell ads, so in the end they basically don't give a flying **** about the consistency of the user experience
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Actually the Android OS is under Apache..Google sells Android for commercial use.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using xda premium
vnvman said:
So this means that Google has asoultely no power (/will) to stop the fragmentation of the user experience. Good. My hope is that, at some point, Android becomes "like" WP7, meaning that manifacturers can only add a few removable apps if they want to, but they're not allowed to touch the OS. Anyway this isn't very likely to happen because unlike Microsoft Google doesn't sell an OS, they just sell ads, so in the end they basically don't give a flying **** about the consistency of the user experience
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Your conclusion is correct.
People buy into 'Brand Loyalty'. Unfortunately the Android 'Brand' isn't Google. It's HTC, Samsung, LG etc, unlike WP7 which is clearly Microsoft flavour, or iphone, which is clearly Apple flavour.
I bet half of people who own an Android phone have never even heard of the OS. It's funny really. Two of them will meet and start comparing phones. "What's your phone?". "It's a HTC, i think. Yours?". "It says Samsung on it. I guess that's what it is huh?". "Mines got a big clock on it.." etc. Android means nothing to most people. There's just so many Android phones that it's inevitable that it would have a large market share. It has no identity though.
lot of people may find it a little to minimalistic, so customization il 101% sure .. personally i like the way it is vanilla style
Skins would be fine if the manufacturer gave you an easier way to disable them, besides the fact that some are ugly as sin, they're also resource hogs.
ICS is the great smoth view.. i really like it.
but now ICS not yet officially launched.
you can use ICS theme on Market from ADW laucher and Theme Chooser
Guys I've be wondering...why do OEMs always skin up their UI in a way so that it becomes disgusting to use...
Many custom ROMs sure only exists just to bring the native Android feeling like on the Nexus devices to those phones, right?
I myself own a Galaxy Note, and the day I bought it I feel its system was so crapped over with all that Touchwiz bs and Samsung Apps that nobody is going to use but still runs in the background.
So, if OEMs start building 'stock' Android firmwares and only add the essential features (like S-Pen Apps), wouldn't that be awesome for its users and for the OEM, due to not having to port everyting over once a new Android version arrives, which maybe means lower costs and faster updates?
I know that it would be making phones harder to differentiate, and marketing those would be harder, but they could make two production lines or two software versions and let the users choose which they want to update to...
Maybe I am just too naive lol, but I've been searching for a phablet with as much stock UI as possible and eventually I gave up
Any answers appreciated
This already started during Gingerbread and I think even before, back then Android looked hideous and the phone manufacturers actually did a decent job back then like HTC with it's 'Sense'. I think the manufacturers are still stuck in their old habits, and trying to differentiate themselves from competitors just like before. However Android started to look beautiful from ICS and on and most of these skins now look ugly and outdated.
I think the manufacturers have to step up their game just like google did with ICS, with either improving their skins or just remove their custom skins all together.
If you want the AOSP look, buy a nexus device or flash a ROM. You will just have to trust me when I say the masses like things the way they are. Stock Android is getting pretty good, but Sony's UI I just love, and I can see a lot of things which Sony and other OEMs bring to their skin a whole version before Google does
I for myself hate Touchwiz, but if you say so
You may dislike touchwiz UI (join the club) but the fact is Samsung has a lot of closed source features not available on stock AOSP.
As mentioned before it is just brand differentiation.
Sent from my SGH-I747
Sense is my custom skin, and I honestly don't mind Touchwiz, but stock jb or ICS is beautiful.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Bull_Moose said:
Sense is my custom skin, and I honestly don't mind Touchwiz, but stock jb or ICS is beautiful.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
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While it would be nice to have the option of choosing Stock or Skin at setup, it would be difficult because their software is completely different. I personally like Stock Android and would rather not go back to any skin for that matter.
You could also just use a launcher (and de-bloat if it's an issue for you) to get a "look".
On my phone, I only use a launcher so that I can get T-Mobile's native WIFI-calling that's TW-only. I really didn't mind TW and there were some things I really liked - but the dealbreaker was lack of customisation - little changes that I wanted to make that made the phone go from good to awesome.
If you just want the look, try Apex or Nova launcher - you don't even necessarily need root.