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Android vs Maemo 5 - what are your thoughts?

I have been a big fan of android since the pre cupcake days and have really enjoyed watching android grow becoming bigger and better all the time.
Its almost contract renewal time and im unsure what to do. the obvious choice would be the desire, but its lack of physical keyboard and complicated way to gain root are bad points. the other choice would be the nokia n900 running maemo 5. it has a physical keyboard and is very easy to gain root access.
So im stuck and thought i would ask the community to share their thoughts on both devices and systems to create a list of pros and cons.
Any comments you wish to share would be great. Thanks

hi, my friend has an n900 and to be honest as much as I hate Nokia that piece of hardware is solid. resistive touchsceeen is very responsive to touch. it really feels as capacitive plus you get the accuracy of the stylus. and obviously the hard keyboard.
but, talking about maemo... its ugly. I felt it wasn't finished and thought through. as a sense UI user I felt it was a tipical bold and ugly Nokia UI. I'd compare it as XP to Windows7.
on the other hand the guy is a programmer and the things he showed me he programmed for his Nokia were impressive. full Linux.
Sent from my HTC Hero using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk

I understand what you mean about meamo seeming appearing unfinished. maybe it will grow as android has? but it doesnt have the popularity so perhaps its worth sticking with android. i dont know lol.
pros for maemo so far are; that root is simple, theme installation is easy, backups without entering recovery mode. hacking and programming appears to be closer to debian. (to be honest that doesnt effect me as im not a programmer but its obviously going to be usefull to alot of people)
cons; nokia , not android, confusing ui, ovi store has lack of good apps, no xda support.

I have no clue about Nokia but I know there's no big developer support. if Desire is too complicated to root, why don't you consider Nexus one? Besides that it's also the phone that will receive new OS updates FIRST.... see upcoming Android 2.2 - and if you want a QWERTY then wait for Nexus two. And there's also the QWERTY phone from Motorola (which btw are also doing the N2)
****! I can't believe I'm recommending Android devices. But I'm innocent... Microsoft made me do it!

Well having them both for a couple of days I've kept the Desire. I have it for almost a month and I still can't stop playing with it. It's so polished and so fast. The single best cellphone I've ever used. N900 has it's own advantages, but it's too unpolished and doesn't have enough developer support to be my primary phone. It's good as a secondary phone for experimenting, but as a main phone the desire is the one to beat.
And it took me 15-20 mins to root the desire and it is my first root. So not that complicated. Top tip: use paul's r3 root method (using a tinycore linux live cd) for minimal problems. Windows only method can be a little jerky from user to user.

I'd wait for a nice android phone with qwerty. infact that's exactly what I'm doing while having fun with Hero. )
Sent from my HTC Hero using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk

I have no clue about Nokia but I know there's no big developer support. if Desire is too complicated to root, why don't you consider Nexus one? Besides that it's also the phone that will receive new OS updates FIRST.... see upcoming Android 2.2 - and if you want a QWERTY then wait for Nexus two. And there's also the QWERTY phone from Motorola (which btw are also doing the N2)
****! I can't believe I'm recommending Android devices. But I'm innocent... Microsoft made me do it!
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lol i would like to have the nexus one. but im in the uk so no nexus without paying alot for it. which is a damn shame. also no moto droid over here. will look into the nexus two though thanks for the tip

Well having them both for a couple of days I've kept the Desire. I have it for almost a month and I still can't stop playing with it. It's so polished and so fast. The single best cellphone I've ever used. N900 has it's own advantages, but it's too unpolished and doesn't have enough developer support to be my primary phone. It's good as a secondary phone for experimenting, but as a main phone the desire is the one to beat.
And it took me 15-20 mins to root the desire and it is my first root. So not that complicated. Top tip: use paul's r3 root method (using a tinycore linux live cd) for minimal problems. Windows only method can be a little jerky from user to user.
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i like the sound of this. i seem to be very mistaken about the desire being hard to root.

As the N900 was compared to a mobile computer by Nokia themselves i think it's self explanatory. You can't compare these two Operating Systems as Maemo focuses on open-ness and easyness to port stuff that's based on Qt for example. (I guess that's the reason why they chose to use resistive TS, easier to use desktop-like apps)
Android on the other hand, focuses on making use easier for the end-user, open-ness is just a nice side feature of it, but Apps should be based on the APIs google provides, however you are allowed to do anything with them

I also have a Desire and im finding it to be a really nice phone, there are a few niggles but most things can be sorted with an application or a bit of searching. It's better now i have rooted it as all my applications are now stored on my SD card instead of on the limited memory. I found the guide from Nimbu to be a very easy and quick guide to follow. You should be able to find it on google since i cant post the link from being a new user

will have a look for that guide when i have some spare time. thanks

bruce_wayne said:
I have been a big fan of android since the pre cupcake days and have really enjoyed watching android grow becoming bigger and better all the time.
Its almost contract renewal time and im unsure what to do. the obvious choice would be the desire, but its lack of physical keyboard and complicated way to gain root are bad points. the other choice would be the nokia n900 running maemo 5. it has a physical keyboard and is very easy to gain root access.
So im stuck and thought i would ask the community to share their thoughts on both devices and systems to create a list of pros and cons.
Any comments you wish to share would be great. Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had an N900 for about 4 weeks before the Nexus One was released. I really loved that device. Like others are saying, it feels solid. Screen is beautiful, and who can complain about 32 gigs built in, with another 8+ on the miniSD. Browsing = Awesome with full flash support. Stereo speakers sound great. QWERTY keyboard is a little bit of a bummer cause the top row is so close to the case. And the earbuds sound FANTASTIC! Better then some I've purchased from electronics stores.
Here's the real bummer. Nokia didn't capitalize on the N900 as much as they could have. Their shipping and support from NokiaUSA was abysmal. (I ordered when the site said 'IN STOCK' and after 3 weeks I cancelled the order and purchased one via eBay).
I wish I could say I was pleased with Maemo 5. The N900 comes with a few good apps, and more can be found through the Ovi store (when it was working).
I'd say stick with Android for this simple reason. It seems Nokia is letting the N900 die on the vine and has left everything about the device up to the Maemo community. They've even made statements regarding coming out with other smart mobile devices (Nokia N8) and is putting effort into a new version of Symbian.
If you are a Linux dev and would like to have fun coding for your own device, you can't ask for a better smartphone.
If you enjoy the Android platform, the variety of apps available in the market, and love the XDA forums then you'll be happier with an Android device.

I've stopped looking at non HTC devices for the sole reason of xda forums.
Sent from my HTC Hero using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk

bruce_wayne said:
Its almost contract renewal time and im unsure what to do. the obvious choice would be the desire, but its lack of physical keyboard and complicated way to gain root are bad points.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the last release, r4 rooting is very very easy.

I've stopped looking at non HTC devices for the sole reason of xda forums.
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Click to collapse
i really dont blame you. theres alot of help in the xda forums

Maemo minus intel's x86 = the suck
with x86 and you could run linux programs and windows programs with wine. It would however be alot less phone like than Android.
Android is already growing fast every month. Problem is the Java layer and compiling for Arm.
Maemo's only real hope is x86 for phone. If that happens however I'd get it in a heart beat. Old games like Baldur's gate would be easy enough for anyone to get working. Otherwise it's just a me too operating system. Like BEOS.

Maemo minus intel's x86 = the suck
with x86 and you could run linux programs and windows programs with wine. It would however be alot less phone like than Android.
Android is already growing fast every month. Problem is the Java layer and compiling for Arm.
Maemo's only real hope is x86 for phone. If that happens however I'd get it in a heart beat. Old games like Baldur's gate would be easy enough for anyone to get working. Otherwise it's just a me too operating system. Like BEOS.
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Click to collapse
It has a few ports of old games running well now. Transposrt tycoon runs well on the n900.
Just don't know if I can leave android. There's so much developer support that android constantly evolves. I love it
From what I have seen, Meamo doesn't seem to change. And app development appears to be very slow. On the ovi store, and other sources, new apps or updates don't often arrive.

Maemo
From comparisons and ability to customize things on the phone Maemo seems to be the best. I own an Omnia SCH-i910 with WM6 but am keeping an eye on Maemo OS phones hoping they take off.
What I want most from my phone besides features is open source program compatibility and ability to customize interface, ICS, and data access.

I have used the N900 for a while and just recently picked up the Vibrant (Galaxy S). There are many features I miss from the N900/Maemo. A huge one is universal, standard commands such as ctrl+c,x,v, etc. It was so easy to select text with the stylus then manipulate with keyboard shortcuts. Copying and pasting text on the Vibrant has been a bad experience in comparison.
Another major thing that the Maemo OS does better IMO is multitasking. It has true multitasking, and switching between and closing applications is intuitive and very well implemented. However, the way Android does things probably helps battery life, and after getting used to it I have no complaints.
For me, Android is an overall better choice due to its practicality for every day use. What I like more about the N900/Maemo is its multitasking and that it is literally a mini linux PC, yielding much more control and functionality for power users.
dvdivx said:
Maemo minus intel's x86 = the suck
with x86 and you could run linux programs and windows programs with wine. It would however be alot less phone like than Android.
Android is already growing fast every month. Problem is the Java layer and compiling for Arm.
Maemo's only real hope is x86 for phone. If that happens however I'd get it in a heart beat. Old games like Baldur's gate would be easy enough for anyone to get working. Otherwise it's just a me too operating system. Like BEOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anyone can easily install "Easy Debian" from the maemo.org repository, granting access to many repositories containing countless Debian packages. Once installed, they be launched from within Maemo or an LXDE that runs as an application within Maemo, therefore allowing simultaneous phone functionality. So in my opinion wine isn't that important for the n900, unless there is something you absolutely need that won't run on ARM based architecture...

bruce_wayne...someone said ""The grass is green ot the other side".
I have N900 and Samsung Galaxy S.
Android and N900-Maemo5 have advantages and disatvantages. The right choise depend ot what you need from device.
I am user that don't have ability to make program, but I like to install and use.
For me phone must be like mini computer but still lightweight.
For me the necessary thing is:
Good phone with video player capable to play Standart Definition video and play internet stream(HTTP).TV-out is welcome
Software that I need is: Skype, ICQ and VNC client.
N900 disatvantages for me and my kind of work.
Weight!!!. Maemo5. Poor battery life-especially in 3G mode.
But.....N900 have nice contacts menager with Skype and ICQ accaunts.
Skype Video conversation. Diferent video player and codec pluging
In Galaxy S. Nimbuzz ( or other program) substitute N900 integrated chat client. Program WYSE is good VNC client.
The only thing that missing is video Player with HTTP capabilities. I really want to watch my VLC stream.
So....everything depend of what do you want from phone.
If you have question about N900. Just Ask..I'm not Maemo5(N900) fanboy neither Android(Galaxy S)

Your opinions on ALL OSes

Ok, basically my wife is looking into a new phone and our options are more or less limitless, she just wants advantages and disadvantages of each OS. She's not picky and doesn't always need the most popular OS, she wants form, factor, and function. I am looking for a phone that will take a sim so trying to avoid Verizon and Sprint phones. Heres my opinions on the ones I can think up.
iOS-I wouldnt touch it with a ten foot pole personally but regardless of my personal feelings if it's jailbroken it's not actually a terrible OS just a bit bland. The hardware limitations and the fact that they're still building the same updates for the 2g that they are for the 4g causes some immense limitations and I cant think of an update that made a real difference.
Android- Good but often laggy even with a snapdragon. The UI customization is nice but they're killing themselves not allowing a GPU accelerated UI. I have a Dell Streak for my "fun phone" and though I love it it does seem more appealing to have a phone that "just works" for her. I dont think android will be quite as long-lived though its doing well so far. How can one expect a UI to have devoted developers when you can get anything you want free.
Windows phone 7- Perfect business device, still in what seems almost an open beta phase and lacking a lot of basic features. More promise than any other OS but for the time being it's not living up to the hype.
BadaOS-Support? What support? plays out like a bad WebOS ripoff
Blackberry-Just the most boring thing in the world. Aside from battery life I cannot seem to realize how this OS sells well outside of the old people who dont really know how to use a phone but want something high end...
WebOS- It had it's day in the spotlight and that didn't last too long... I mean its functional but feels almost dirty compared to the more modern OSes
WM6.5- Great OS for someone who wants to devote hours and hours and hours to customizing it to be the most functional OS. Sadly the only device worth having thats wm6.5 anymore is the LEO/HD2.
These are all opinions of mine, she just wants to know the opinion of others. Thanks for your input.

What is her level of technical expertise?
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

Moderate, a gaming device would be great but something with a pleasant UI is more appealing

If you don't mind about the limited hardware choice then iOS is very good, especially for newcomers. It'll probably make your life easier (less questions to answer).
Android is a different matter. The experience depends highly on what manufacturer you go for, but if you choose well then you get one of the best (functionality-wise) smartphone OSes out there together with a wide choice of hardware.
Personally I'd suggest the Nexus S (if you can cope with 16GB storage), or failing that the Galaxy S. Both are lovely devices, but the Nexus edges it with it's lovely display, GPU accelerated transitions (Android finally somewhat smooth) and Gingerbread.
Windows Phone 7? If you're a big business and/or Office user, then it's probably the easiest OS to get working with. It has good video/gaming capabilities and a GPU accelerated UI but currently suffers from limited storage space on most devices.
Choose if you love the UI or are a OneNote addict, otherwise I'd stick to the safer bet of Android/iOS for the time-being and wait for things to play out. You probably wouldn't buy a device running iOS 1 or Android 1.5 today, so I'd wait for Windows 7 to catch-up. It is good. It will be great, just in a little while.
That said you should have no problem editing/viewing Office docs or accessing Exchange email on either Android or iOS.
BlackBerry OS - used to be the pinnacle of a smartphone OS, but a lack of innovation and poor hardware has choked the platform, and RIM have said that in the future top-end BlackBerry devices will run the QNX OS they are running on the PlayBook.
WebOS - very good, but still failed to catch up fully with iOS/Android even with the recent update. That said, I think someone has to try a WebOS first - some people love it, some hate it. Limited range of apps.
WinMo 6.5 - Do not buy anymore, unless your business requires it.
Bada OS - Just no. No developers. No apps. No fantastic devices.

joeearl13 said:
If you don't mind about the limited hardware choice then iOS is very good, especially for newcomers. It'll probably make your life easier (less questions to answer).
Android is a different matter. The experience depends highly on what manufacturer you go for, but if you choose well then you get one of the best (functionality-wise) smartphone OSes out there together with a wide choice of hardware.
Personally I'd suggest the Nexus S (if you can cope with 16GB storage), or failing that the Galaxy S. Both are lovely devices, but the Nexus edges it with it's lovely display, GPU accelerated transitions (Android finally somewhat smooth) and Gingerbread.
Windows Phone 7? If you're a big business and/or Office user, then it's probably the easiest OS to get working with. It has good video/gaming capabilities and a GPU accelerated UI but currently suffers from limited storage space on most devices.
Choose if you love the UI or are a OneNote addict, otherwise I'd stick to the safer bet of Android/iOS for the time-being and wait for things to play out. You probably wouldn't buy a device running iOS 1 or Android 1.5 today, so I'd wait for Windows 7 to catch-up. It is good. It will be great, just in a little while.
That said you should have no problem editing/viewing Office docs or accessing Exchange email on either Android or iOS.
BlackBerry OS - used to be the pinnacle of a smartphone OS, but a lack of innovation and poor hardware has choked the platform, and RIM have said that in the future top-end BlackBerry devices will run the QNX OS they are running on the PlayBook.
WebOS - very good, but still failed to catch up fully with iOS/Android even with the recent update. That said, I think someone has to try a WebOS first - some people love it, some hate it. Limited range of apps.
WinMo 6.5 - Do not buy anymore, unless your business requires it.
Bada OS - Just no. No developers. No apps. No fantastic devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thank you for your reply my wife still wants WP7 but I keep trying to tell her that even though I use it it could take time to work the kinks out. She is considering android but samsung devices are hard to go with especially the galaxy S devices due to the buffer overrun issues. I think we've more or less narrowed it down to those two its just hard to pick which though she is in love with the netflix integration. I think its between the mytouch 4g and the samsung focus

The MT4G is a fantastic device. I'm sure she'd have more fun with it than WP7 and its limited options.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

Now when you say limited options what do you mean? I only ask because I recently converted to windows phone 7 after tinkering with android for 2 years and never once having something that felt 'complete.' Also is there any site that I can make one of those phone histories on or do I have to use paint?

WM: The most tested OS good and stable for business, thousands of apps, tweaks, themes, etc a lot of knowledge.
Android: Nice to play with as all is new and free but I got easily bored
WP7: So new, needs more time to get mature. Too closed similar to apple

The hardware limitations and the fact that they're still building the same updates for the 2g that they are for the 4g causes some immense limitations and I cant think of an update that made a real difference.
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No they aren't. The 2g is stuck on Ios 3.2, while the Iphone 4 is on 4.2. Plus the hardware in the Iphone 4 is just about as fast as Snapdragon, and cortex. Hell, the A4 is a Cortex A8.
Android- I like Android a lot, but some of the manufactures don't take it as seriously as I like, and some manufactures are terrible with updates.(Samsung) And the UI isn't hardware accelerated AFAIK. But very easy to customize, I like that. Manufactures can make Android great, or bad.(Motorola, I'm talking to you with your Motoblur crap)
Ios- I like Ios too, but there are a few issues with it. AT&T is the big one, and the second issue because of that is limited data. I can't say that it's a bad thing that to make it useful to my standards, you have to jailbreak it because every Android phone I've had I've rooted for it to work great. I wish Apple would come out with an Iphone with a screen bigger than 3.7inch. And I wish Steve would not have so much hatred towards Adobe, because that means no real flash for Iphone while it's fully capable of it. Frash is okay for the Iphone, but real flash would be better.
BB Os- I'll tell you the same thing I tell people I sell these to. Blackberry is a business phone, so don't expect the fun and colorful UI you see in other OSes. It is very simple to use though, but RIM is stuck on hardware that was released almost 2 years ago. The Pre is originally clocked at 600 mhz like the Droid, the chip inside the Torch which is the newest Blackberry is only at 624 mhz, like the Storm, the Storm 2, the Bold, etc etc. Also, Blackberry does not like to update their phones to the current OS, despite most of the phones having the same specs. It is what it is.
Windows Mobile 6.5- Not bad, but not great. A nice business OS though.
Windows Phone 7- I like it a lot, but no flash support right now is a killer. I don't mind it not having things like bluetooth transfer since I really don't use it, but I would like copy and paste. Also they need to hurry up and expand to different carriers! D:
Symbian- Personally I never used it, but people say it is very versatile.
Webos- I like Webos a lot, I really do. But there simply isn't enough support behind it from developers, which means a huge lack of apps compared to Android and Ios. The big thing that kills me about it, is the fact that the Pre only has a 3inch screen, even the Pre 2 has a 3inch screen despite having specs that can be compared to the Droid 2!
Bada- Samsung, so I can't expect too much from it. I haven't tried it though, and I really don't want to.

What kind of user is your wife? If she wants a phone that does games, txt, email etc... then you have to take into consideration what is the best at these?
IOS even with it's limitations is probably the most "polished" out there. Has a huge base of followers, tons of apps, and it does work out of the box. Sure it's bland in its interface and your locked in with AT&T and the iWorld of Apple. Not to mention that you can't do anything with the hardware itself.
Android: Catching up to Apple - but still not the "iPhone killer" - yet. I personally love Android - and with enough tweaking I don't experience lag on my Captivate. But.. I would highly suggest NOT getting a Galaxy S phone. Too many issues with the devices to merit getting. I would go with an HTC.
Win Mobile 7: Although this looks promising.. if I wanted a boring interface and all the junk that goes with the OS? I'd have an iPhone. And not to mention it's still in its infancy - so who knows if it will go the way of the Do Do bird?

Should also mention about Android, if she gets an Android phone but doesn't root it, then she'll have to deal with all the bloatware the carriers put on the phone.

Can someone really tell me what WP7 and iphone comparisons there really are aside from their more strict markets. I mean yeah you cant sideload apps as easy as android but what motivation do devs have to continue developing if their apps are distributed for free.

For the simple love of sharing!!!
As it have been done for many years in WM
z33dev33l said:
Can someone really tell me what WP7 and iphone comparisons there really are aside from their more strict markets. I mean yeah you cant sideload apps as easy as android but what motivation do devs have to continue developing if their apps are distributed for free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Ice Cream Sandwich Defragmenting Android

Google says that Ice Cream Sandwich will defragment the Android OS. Obviously it will defragment in terms of bringing together phones, tablets & google TV but an iDevice level of defragmentation? I.E, all devices having the ability to upgrade to the latest version of the OS immediately or even eventually? It seems possible but it doesn't seem probable, but that is where I think Android needs to eventually end up.
Obviously if your hardware didn't warrant the software upgrade they could lock you out of a certain upgrade or warn you that it may cause significant issues with your device.
I can't wait to find out more about this =]

IMO, the defragmentation comes from the individual phone manufacturer, and different phone specs, less so than the different medium.

What they really need is something like the windows phone 7 has in terms of minimum hardware specs, certain buttons required, certain hardware, etc. That still allows a wide range of devices but allows for some conaistency. Google also needs to start taking over the updating of the phones which will help as well. Relying on manufacturers and carriers does not bode well for upgrades.
Tapped from my CherryPi Atrix

termleech said:
What they really need is something like the windows phone 7 has in terms of minimum hardware specs, certain buttons required, certain hardware, etc. That still allows a wide range of devices but allows for some conaistency. Google also needs to start taking over the updating of the phones which will help as well. Relying on manufacturers and carriers does not bode well for upgrades.
Tapped from my CherryPi Atrix
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We're one step closer if ICS devices will no longer have physical buttons.

Does this mean Icecream cannot be installed on current Android phones?

SaqibArif said:
Does this mean Icecream cannot be installed on current Android phones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It means that Devs will need to port it to older hardware, especially the phones that came out w/o 1GHz cores Single cores...Like the Legend, G1, Aria, Droid 1, hero, X10, etc...But phones with Sense or Touchwiz, or Timescape, or LG UI, will be waiting longer for a official update instead. ICS will most likely be intensive on the older phones that are weaker, Gingerbread kills many older phones already, so imagine ICS on them.

Ace42 said:
It means that Devs will need to port it to older hardware, especially the phones that came out w/o 1GHz cores Single cores...Like the Legend, G1, Aria, Droid 1, hero, X10, etc...But phones with Sense or Touchwiz, or Timescape, or LG UI, will be waiting longer for a official update instead. ICS will most likely be intensive on the older phones that are weaker, Gingerbread kills many older phones already, so imagine ICS on them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're actually correct except the fact that google said themselves at google IO before showing the digital zoom based on vocal recognition that ICS would have -no- hardware requirements so I think that it would be more intensive, but still optimized for the phones. Kind of like how you can run Linux on damn near anything.

Indirect said:
You're actually correct except the fact that google said themselves at google IO before showing the digital zoom based on vocal recognition that ICS would have -no- hardware requirements so I think that it would be more intensive, but still optimized for the phones. Kind of like how you can run Linux on damn near anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't know they stated that, well I guess that's good news for everyone then. But the performance on older phones is still questionable.

With the number of different devices utilizing different hardware sets, it will be damn near impossible to establish one version to fit all devices unless they take the windows approach on desktops and allow the user to apply driver updates separately from their device manufacturers.
Also there is the other issue with app fragmentation where folks like nvidia are paying the developers to use device specific codes to make the apps not compatible with other devices instead of utilizing standard openGL which is nearly identical.

I think that standardizing the android 'experience' with a standard set of buttons or hardware requirements is ultimately an exercise in futility. People still see the smartphone world in terms of manufacturers, not in terms of operating systems, and no amount of standardization is going to change the fact that when you look at your phone, you see Samsung or HTC, not android.
I think the question is more, do consumers really need to know or care whether their device runs android or something else? I think not. Your average consumer makes choices of phone based on hardware reliability, cost, carrier availability, aesthetic, popularity, and many other factors. I'm not completely discounting user experience, but I don't think it's as prominent in the decision making process as the enthusiasts assume (the decision making process of the general populace that is). When you consider this, fragmentation of the operating system across many different manufacturers really doesn't make much of a difference to the image of the OS itself.
The only reason that android fragmentation is even an issue/concept whose consequences need to be pondered is because on the other side of the fence we have Apple making consistent hardware that runs on the same OS, and making boatloads of money off it. On the other hand, android is doing fine (and exceeding the iOS market share in many markets) even though it has this market fragmented across many different manufacturers.

Google needs to fix the fragmentation!!!

Niksko said:
I think that standardizing the android 'experience' with a standard set of buttons or hardware requirements is ultimately an exercise in futility. People still see the smartphone world in terms of manufacturers, not in terms of operating systems, and no amount of standardization is going to change the fact that when you look at your phone, you see Samsung or HTC, not android.
I think the question is more, do consumers really need to know or care whether their device runs android or something else? I think not. Your average consumer makes choices of phone based on hardware reliability, cost, carrier availability, aesthetic, popularity, and many other factors. I'm not completely discounting user experience, but I don't think it's as prominent in the decision making process as the enthusiasts assume (the decision making process of the general populace that is). When you consider this, fragmentation of the operating system across many different manufacturers really doesn't make much of a difference to the image of the OS itself.
The only reason that android fragmentation is even an issue/concept whose consequences need to be pondered is because on the other side of the fence we have Apple making consistent hardware that runs on the same OS, and making boatloads of money off it. On the other hand, android is doing fine (and exceeding the iOS market share in many markets) even though it has this market fragmented across many different manufacturers.
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Click to collapse
Very well said!
I'm sure there will be plenty of ICS support for older devices from the dev community. I'd expect most, if not all of the devices currently supported by
Cyanogenmod to see an ICS upgrade when the time comes.

looks like i should wait a bit more longer b4 i upgrade some of my hardware

Lots of life left in the the super HTC Desire yet then....

Nice, I will enjoy seeing ICS hit retail, if for nothing else the conversations on this forum, lol.

yes of course...

it'll be 3 main pockets
all the hardware that was on 2.3.x GB are automatically compatible with ICS 4.x, so all those automatically will join the 4.x cloud
but we have all the 2.2 Froyo and 2.1 Eclair hardware that are too old for ICS both of those becomes 1 cloud, most 2.1 devices are already on 2.2 anyways.
so the last cloud are those super old 1.5 devices
so in reality we are better off now than before
if you imagine a pie chart it'll be like 1% AOSP 1.5.x devices 49% 2.2 AOSP devices, and 50% ICE 4.x devices
iLiberate said:
Google says that Ice Cream Sandwich will defragment the Android OS. Obviously it will defragment in terms of bringing together phones, tablets & google TV but an iDevice level of defragmentation? I.E, all devices having the ability to upgrade to the latest version of the OS immediately or even eventually? It seems possible but it doesn't seem probable, but that is where I think Android needs to eventually end up.
Obviously if your hardware didn't warrant the software upgrade they could lock you out of a certain upgrade or warn you that it may cause significant issues with your device.
I can't wait to find out more about this =]
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amaliapika said:
yes of course...
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Haha, love that you bumped a 6 month old thread with "yes of course". Struggling to reach 10 posts eh?

[Misc] future of android.

Would like to start a general discussion here.
Would it be a good idea if Google only use android on their own ( Motorola) hardware?
Take this as current state and not the changes in ice cream.
Currently android is a mess 6 versions of the the os in the market.
Three main ones app makers have to support.
I love aosp so I use cm7 as I missed the nexus one and the nexus s didn't have an SD card.
I have tried touchwiz on a galaxy s. Sense on a hero and desire HD. Motoblur on a dext and defy.
They add nothing all they do is slow down the phone and updates.
Why do company's feel the need to add old ui's ( most are ported from older model phones)
Something I miss from my iphones was updates on all devices as the same time, no waiting around for a manufactor to mess around with it,then a network to spoil it even more, then for me to get it after a slow roll out.
So maybe android needs to take a look at ios and think why do app devs like it more? Why do normal users like it more?( XDA users are not normal users)
I would like one of three things to happen.
1- all android phones are aosp.
2- added UI are installable as an option not bundled into the phone.
3- Google to only release phones for purity.
Would like to see peoples thoughts on this.
And also if you like a UI why do you like it? what do you think it adds?
I repair things I am not a writer so hope its coherent enough to get the jist.
Sent from my Tablet

HTC, Samsung, Moto, etc... they put those UIs on to dumb down the OS. Make it simple. Simple sells.
Simple UI plus a Powerful OS = great sales!

But sense adds even more settings and more to the lockscreen more everything.
Motoblur seems to need a blur account then you need your Google account for market.
Not that simple to me.
Touchwiz just seems to change things not add or take away.
Sent from my Phone

All of those make it simple. How do you add to the lock screen on stock Android?

vetvito said:
All of those make it simple. How do you add to the lock screen on stock Android?
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You can't on stock its a simple unlock or mute
Sent from my Phone

What makes apple so "great" in most customers eyes is the simplicity. I love android just for the fact that there are so many ways time customize it it's ridiculous. Example: apple had to release almost 5 generations of the iPhone just to try to keep up with the android.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

aurgerman said:
Example: apple had to release almost 5 generations of the iPhone just to try to keep up with the android.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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Not sure I agree with that.
Android only really took over apple when android got to 2.2( not everyone even has that yet)
Ios is very rock soil and before ios4 didn't really crash on me. I have only started noticing problems since ios4.
And with the customization with our phones there is a limit to what you can theme on stock rom without root.
Installing cydia on ios devices you get loads of themes and changes some of them are even better then android visually.
Sent from my Phone

Are you sure ^ ? 2.2 - 2.3 is on 85% of Android devices right now.

Let's keep in mind that all these companies need to distinguish themselves from their competition. Consider all the competing phones based on, say, the ARM A8 platform. With similar core hardware under the hood running the same underlying OS, the interface is simply the best place to make a given model noticeably distinct to the average consumer.
Google may not be thrilled with platform fragmentation, but I'd wager that the various royalties / licensing fees / brand recognition opportunities / whatever more than make up for it. Going full-turtle would be bad business. Just my 2 cents...
Sent from my SCH-I500 using xda premium

iammodo said:
3- Google to only release phones for purity.
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Coming soon from Google: AryanOS, locked down tighter than **** Cheney's butthole to guarantee purity!
/Godwinned
Sent from my SCH-I500 using xda premium

vetvito said:
HTC, Samsung, Moto, etc... they put those UIs on to dumb down the OS. Make it simple. Simple sells.
Simple UI plus a Powerful OS = great sales!
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So true.
Also, Google, Moto, Sammy, and HTC don't fight back enough with carriers, mainly Verizon, against bloat. Verizon would probably say "To hell with Android then" if they did, since they don't have as much leverage as the iPhone and Apple.
Jazz is also right. If every manufacture had stock on their phones, you wouldn't know which to choose since there would be no difference. Only buyers, like us, that actually care about the speed of a phone, and the ram and rom and all that jazz would know the differences, but average users wouldn't. Hell, my sister, who is only 21, doesn't understand the difference between a Droid and an Android phone, she assumes that every phone that runs Android is a Droid...like my aunt's Evo. (lol)
I actually like Sense, especially Sense 3.5. I think it makes Android look a little nicer, especially if you don't want to root or use custom roms. Touchwiz is also kinda nice, but it's really just the launcher that is changed. Blur is a piece of doodoo though. Can't even install the Facebook app onto my X2 because of Blur's useless Facebook integration that works like hell. Tells me everything I don't want to know, and nothing that I do.
I seriously don't see the point of bloat anyways. If the app is already installed on my phone and I never use it, what is the difference between that and it not being on my phone entirely. If I wanted the dang app, I would've clicked the Verizon tab in the market and downloaded VCast or VMusic. Best answer is probably that Verizon has some stupid person in HR or whatever deciding on what is preinstalled on the phone, instead of the actual consumer. (Then again, I don't see the point in a Facebook phone as well..)

Thanks
Enviado desde mi SM-G925F mediante Tapatalk

Its like looking into a time machine , i remember iOS3 & 4 when it was as simple as jailbreak.me man it used to be so easy :/

Android fragmentation

Is it just me, or does it seem that the fragmentation of android has finally cost the android rom development community. Many phones have very little development while many developers are jumping ship the first chance they get to move to something like the Samsung nexus. This leaves many android users with limited options and the ability to see what this proud community can do.
There are phones out here that have unlocked bootloaders but yet they still receive very little development. I dont understand that as I've seen a lot of developers complain about locked bootloaders but yet when they move on to a new phone, they don't support some of the phones with an unlocked bootloader.
I understand as more androids hit the market that it will dilute rom development some, but it's grown into something similar to certain phones have developers gathering to them the way apple fanboys gather to iPhone. I'm disappointed in that as I always thought of android as being the anti apple.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using XDA App

Care to give some examples? We're still seeing ROM releases for the G1, even.

The LG revolution is one example. Unlocked bootloader and not too much development.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using XDA App

Guys please understand that this site was built in the believe that if you wanted something for your device then dig in and make it. Only developer you can relay on is the one on the other end of your keyboard.
The knowledge is out there. Don't relay on someone else do make something for your device. That will only lead to disappointment.
How do you think most of us got started?

People are only going to develop for devices they own, which means devices that they like and more often than not they are the same devices which are most popular over-all.
If dev support is what you want then choosing the device with the most support should be part of your decision making process when buying a new phone. If you buy one with little support it's on you!

lol idiots and android fragmentation. Stop speaking of it. Some ****er said something about android fragmentation and the noobs are talking about that without reading any articles, without searching themselves etc etc. There's no such thing. And just because the app drawer icon and the notification bar are placed in different placed on Tablets, doesn't mean the platform is fragmented.

Personally I would love to learn how to do something like porting my own roms onto devices, but of course I would have to be a skilled programmer. Just as a general question, how hard is it to create your own rom for a new device? Do have to do a lot of coding from scratch, or do you just sorta copy and paste a lot of stuff already out there?

Middle East Guy said:
Personally I would love to learn how to do something like porting my own roms onto devices, but of course I would have to be a skilled programmer. Just as a general question, how hard is it to create your own rom for a new device? Do have to do a lot of coding from scratch, or do you just sorta copy and paste a lot of stuff already out there?
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I'd also like to know this. What would it take to port something like CM9 (something where the majority of the actually ROM is made by proper devs), and port it to something like the Razr dev edition (a device I know won't get any love from the community but should actually be relatively easy to develop on)? What would someone with zero coding experience actually be able to do if they had the phone, the sdk and access to CM's GitHub?

You would most likely start with CM7 and use your stock roms kernel, replacing the userland. By far the hardest part about doing a port is getting a kernel, once you have a kernel that boots the rest is mostly tweaking build props.

Simple solution. If development is that important to you, check out the forum for the device before purchase. And actually support the devs for your device.
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using xda premium

Konstantinos said:
lol idiots and android fragmentation. Stop speaking of it. Some ****er said something about android fragmentation and the noobs are talking about that without reading any articles, without searching themselves etc etc. There's no such thing. And just because the app drawer icon and the notification bar are placed in different placed on Tablets, doesn't mean the platform is fragmented.
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I believe CNET coined this in regards to Android. I saw an interview with one of the CNET "yackers" and Androids big cheese.

Konstantinos said:
lol idiots and android fragmentation. Stop speaking of it. Some ****er said something about android fragmentation and the noobs are talking about that without reading any articles, without searching themselves etc etc. There's no such thing. And just because the app drawer icon and the notification bar are placed in different placed on Tablets, doesn't mean the platform is fragmented.
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I certainly agree that "fragmentation" is used too often as a buzz-word to show the instability of Android OS. This use is really misleading. IMO fragmentation does exist in the Android OS, though, in that there are still iterations of Donut and Eclair in usable devices alongside Froyo, GB and the newer, each having it's own device/manufacturer -specific user interface as well.
Seems to me that they all do pretty much the same thing, tho. The Android core (Linux-based, right?) is the software foundation that allows the hardware drivers to work together to do the same thing device to device: make phone calls, access the internet, and play games. (Ok ... run apps)
Since the aOS core is fairly similar across devices, the bigger "fragmentation" comes from the hardware. As hardware changes, the driver support changes as well, and may become obsolete, therefore negating any upgrade options. So, if your device used a video chip from some Asian company that was destroyed in a typhoon, for example, you might never see another driver made, and also never see an upgrade to the next letter of Android.
Fits with what others have said: If you want to upgrade the OS later, either choose a very popular device, or at least one with very common parts.
Even then, there's no guarantee.

I was an iOS user for 3 years. I hacked the hell out of it. Now its been over a month I am a Galaxy Nexus user and I hack the hell out of it too, (still learning tho...) and I love it. Having said that, and having deep knowledge of both platforms, I DO believe that there is fragmentation in the Android platform.
The next step, is each one of us to think for himself what does he mean exactly by saying fragmentation. After we establish a common base, so that we all speak the same language we can continue.
My opinion is that not only there is fragmentation, but it comes in different fields. There is fragmentation in the Android versions still used, there is fragmentation in the UI,there is fragmentation in hardware, software and pretty much everywhere. Why today there are so many versions of Android apps that are still not compatible with ICS. Lazy developers? I dont know. What I do know is that if I was in iOS most of the Apps would got updated before the next version got released...
Anyway I really do not want to start a flame war. I absolutely love my Galaxy Nexus and I will continue to hack it. I also love Android 4.0. But saying whats wrong with what we like is the only way it will get better. By denying it it will only get worse. Is there a possibility I am wrong? Of course. But nevertheless, this is my opinion and I am expressing it.

My biggest gripe with Android is the inconsistency with the UI,which really degrades the experience compared to iOS. Since Google has no review process for apps I find that most Android apps are ugly compared to iOS and since the developers aren't forced to adhere to any UI guidelines there's zero consistency across the board. IMO Google really needs to be a little more evil when it comes to Android otherwise they will be in big trouble once WP7/8 gain traction,which is just a matter of time. I've used every mobile OS out there and to me Android has by far the worst user experience due to inconsistent performance,abysmal battery life and the aforementioned UI inconsistencies.

Fragmentation is exsistent. My little brother bought the LG Marquee as I told him, since the specs are similar to my galaxy S Epic 4G. Despite that, the release hasn't brought much attention since it wasn't well advertised and it paled in comparison to the Epic 4G touch being released. Even apps are fragmented, not over android version I.e. froYo, gingerbread. But over the phones themselves, since the LG marquee has a different GPU than my phone, many 3d games are similar incompatible, despite it being run by a 1ghz processor. And yes the resolution on both phones is the same. It's the only thing I don't like about android, apps take forever to update to support all platforms of hardware and software, while iOS is all the same across the board making updates faster and easier.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium

i thought this was common sense
when i wanted to buy a new android i wanted a phone that had a big following in the community
first was the nexus line
then HTC
then samsung
i went with Samsung since it was the smoothest one out there
and then it became the the most popular phone on XDA

Konstantinos said:
lol idiots and android fragmentation. Stop speaking of it. Some ****er said something about android fragmentation and the noobs are talking about that without reading any articles, without searching themselves etc etc. There's no such thing. And just because the app drawer icon and the notification bar are placed in different placed on Tablets, doesn't mean the platform is fragmented.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Word. Fragmentation isn't the problem... the problem is that every device needs a rom tailored specifically to it, and installing the wrong rom can brick your phone.
Sent from my Hercules using XDA App

fucxms said:
Care to give some examples? We're still seeing ROM releases for the G1, even.
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Skyrocket.
Sure, there are a few ROMs/devs there (seanzscreams is a phenomenal guy). Cyanogenmod? Nothing. MIUI? Nothing. ICS? Nothing. Any word on any of these being available on the Skyrocket? No, with the exception that Samsung will provide and ICS kernel for the Skyrocket eventually. Will there be any ICS ROMs developed for the Skyrocket then? Who knows.

Isn't that basically supporting the notion that Android is "fragmented" on some level, in some area? That you need to custom tailor roms individually to meet the needs of each device (due to drivers, hardware, whatever) under the encompassing umbrella that is Android. Is that not a form of fragmentation? Maybe one that doesn't bother you at all, which is understandable, but has certainly ruffled the feathers of other users?
Aside from that I agree with other elements of fragmentation that members have posted about here sso far. Frag in UI is one that particularly irks me the most.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

How can people say fragmentation is not a problem? Or worse, that it doesn't exist?
I suppose this is why Google is allowed to continue this charade of an open OS.
Sent from my SGH-I897