Verizon is getting ready to launch the HTC Thunderbolt/Incredible HD, which is an androidd phone with a front facing camera (basically verizons version of the Evo).
I know they have the trophy and a couple other wp7 devices on the way but i wanted to know will there be any devices with a front facing camera? is Windows Phone 7 capable of using a front facing camera? since the launch of iphone 4, the newest ipod touch and the evo, the front facing Camera has been the latest craze in cell phone features, im currently eyeing the HTC 7 Pro if verizon gets it in January but if they will have future phones and wp7 is capable of handling a front facing camera i may consider waiting. I havent seen anything about wp7 and front facing cameras so i was curious is this was even possible with wp7
I don't see why not really. Just a matter of getting drivers setup for it.
I remember reading somewhere (don't remember where) about a portrait camera mentioned in the code somewhere, so yes, in theory is hould support them, it is up to the OEM's to put them in.
deadwrong03 said:
Verizon is getting ready to launch the HTC Thunderbolt/Incredible HD, which is an androidd phone with a front facing camera (basically verizons version of the Evo).
I know they have the trophy and a couple other wp7 devices on the way but i wanted to know will there be any devices with a front facing camera? is Windows Phone 7 capable of using a front facing camera? since the launch of iphone 4, the newest ipod touch and the evo, the front facing Camera has been the latest craze in cell phone features, im currently eyeing the HTC 7 Pro if verizon gets it in January but if they will have future phones and wp7 is capable of handling a front facing camera i may consider waiting. I havent seen anything about wp7 and front facing cameras so i was curious is this was even possible with wp7
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What good would it be if there's no software/apps supporting it? Until it's added to MS'es minimum hardware standard for WP7, it would be pretty pointless having one on a device. This is the problem with the minimum standard approach...it's too minimum to seriously compete with other devices.
WhyBe said:
What good would it be if there's no software/apps supporting it? Until it's added to MS'es minimum hardware standard for WP7, it would be pretty pointless having one on a device. This is the problem with the minimum standard approach...it's too minimum to seriously compete with other devices.
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Then get an Android device and have fun complaining about how 95% of the people you know can't video chat with you anyways.
The hardware specs have to be reasonably minimum. OEM that want to make and sell an awesome phone can and will go above the minimum.
Android has no minimum specs and that creates obvious issues. You act like the grass is greener there.
Furthermore even if they did have them on first Gen devices they'd probably be VGA front came, which are about as good as not having one at all IMO...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
N8ter said:
The hardware specs have to be reasonably minimum. OEM that want to make and sell an awesome phone can and will go above the minimum.
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No they won't and neither will the available apps support it. What's the iP4 minimum spec?
Android has no minimum specs and that creates obvious issues. You act like the grass is greener there.
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Were you referring to me? I said nothing about Android.
Furthermore even if they did have them on first Gen devices they'd probably be VGA front cam, which are about as good as not having one at all IMO...
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What type of front cam are you expecting? Video chat is only going to support a very small resolution. VGA is more than enough.
WhyBe said:
No they won't and neither will the available apps support it. What's the iP4 minimum spec?
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The i4 minimum and maximum spec is what Apple designed into the phone. iPhone is one phone model from basically one manufacturer.
I like how you asked about that phone particularly, though. Apple has always maintained one device for all of its touch devices (iTouch and iPhone). Microsoft has minimum specs, but the manufacturers can go above it if they want. Most of hte phones went with minimum specs because it's a new platform and OEMs want to test the water.
Can you blame them? No. Android didn't come out the gate with 6+ phones on several carriers, AFAIK, and it was facing many of the same hurdles that Microsoft is facing with WP7. The only difference is that Microsoft is going about it in a more organized and sane fashion than Google did (Google just cares about getting Android on as many phones as possible, user experience has always been secondary).
Were you referring to me? I said nothing about Android.
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You inferred Android and iOS when you insinuated they wouldn't be able to compete with the current minimum specs. You don't have to say it, most people can read between the lines.
What type of front cam are you expecting? Video chat is only going to support a very small resolution. VGA is more than enough.
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Some devices have 1.3 MegaPixel front cams. On an HSPA+, WiMax, or 4G LTE connection the network can more than handle video conferencing at that resolution. VGA sensors are notoriously bad in low light situations (unless the device does some post processing magic).
They simply aren't that good, especially when they can take the place of something that ads value as well like a LED indicator (with different colors), etc. VGA quality is just bad. It's bad no a 6+ mbps home internet connection, and it's bad on a cell phone.
Furtherore, 90% of phones don't have a front cam (at least in the US), so they are still more of a novelty feature than something that is required or should even be expected.
A good example is the Nexus S, which has no LED indicator light, and had to shed HD video recording to make room for the NFC chip. Since most people want thinner, lighter phones. It ultimately means the phones have less room in them, so concessions have to be made.
I think the OS can support FFCs, but until these video chat networks become more popular and are more fleshed out I don't see a need to rush it.
@N8ter:
Again, having a minimum spec leads to all of the apps supporting mainly the minimum spec devices. This happened with WVGA, accelerometers, extra RAM, and FFC's on WM devices. No matter how many devices WP7 or Android has, they are ALL competing with one iP4. The iP4 minimum spec (it's only spec) is pretty much cutting edge.
Because companies (especially Android and MS) seem to be run by accountants (as opposed to smartphone enthusiasts and designers), I don't expect many to try and go above the minimum standard. Even if they do, refer to my first paragraph.
Video calling dictates a certain resolution regardless of the camera you're using. There won't be any 1.3MP video conferencing for a while (bandwidth limitations). And besides, megapixels DO NOT improve picture quality. This is a popular misconception about camera quality.
Maybe you're in a different country/carrier but the video resolution is dictated by the carrier, not the device. So no mater how many MP you camera has, the carrier specifies it's video chat resolution.
When 4G actually becomes standard and carriers stop charging an arm and a leg for it, video chat will take off.
everyone shut it about android... the person asked a question about front facing cameras... the answer is, at present they aren't supported but given how times are changing i would expect them to come for windows phone 8 (though this is still another 2 years away, so hopefully MS relaxes a bit and we see them earlier then that).
n8ter, i think you misunderstood the lead in sentances about what is available, and what will shortly available. it didn't read like a slam on wp7, or promoting android phones. you might be more sensitive in that area than needed ?
i'm very curious about if/when wp7 devices will have video calling. having a 3 way communication between an android, iphone, and wp7 would be such an awesome achievement technically speaking.
WP7 doesn't support front facing cameras. As someone stated earlier maybe in WP8, or hopefully the Mango Update.
Another thing, you guys keep mentioning WP7 Minimum Specs, but you never mention the Restrictions. OEM's can't do a lot of stuff.
WhyBe said:
@N8ter:
Again, having a minimum spec leads to all of the apps supporting mainly the minimum spec devices. This happened with WVGA, accelerometers, extra RAM, and FFC's on WM devices. No matter how many devices WP7 or Android has, they are ALL competing with one iP4. The iP4 minimum spec (it's only spec) is pretty much cutting edge.
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It depends on how you look at it. 3GS was pretty cutting edge, but halfway through its lifecycle other handsets eclipsed it. This happens with every phone. Nexus One? HD2? They were all cutting edge at some point in time. I don't know if the i4 can be referred to as cutting edge anymore. Even when it was released, it wasn't much better than other devices like the Galaxy S, Droid X, and a couple others. The only thing it has is the Retina Screen (but Samsung has sAMOLED, and IIRC a better GPU in the Galaxy S phones... so not the i4 wasn't as revolutionary as you're insinuating).
Apple achieves good performance through decent programming and standardized specs. The hardware isn't so OMGCRAZY. The designs are nice too, people like that in their "lifestyle" gadgets...
It's not good to base a platform off of "cutting edge" hardware unless you are the only one developing it. This works for Game Consoles and the iPhone. It does not work for Android and WP7 handsets. The business model is different. Making the minimum specs cutting edge discriminates against low cost assemblers (by making them incapable of competing with the likes of Samsung, Motorola, HTC in price, since you're making the OEMs spend ridiculous amounts just to build the phones) and locks you out of emerging markets (full of people who won't be able to afford the devices to begin with). It also makes it near impossible for most people to purchase the devices off contract, due to cost.
Not everyone wants to buy $600-700 phones.
Because companies (especially Android and MS) seem to be run by accountants (as opposed to smartphone enthusiasts and designers), I don't expect many to try and go above the minimum standard. Even if they do, refer to my first paragraph.
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The platform is new. You SHOULDN'T expect many to go above minimum standard. Although it is out of the realm of certainty, failure is still an option at this point.
Video calling dictates a certain resolution regardless of the camera you're using. There won't be any 1.3MP video conferencing for a while (bandwidth limitations). And besides, megapixels DO NOT improve picture quality. This is a popular misconception about camera quality.
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Megapixels do improve picture quality
If you're video chatting with someone on a desktop via VGA webcam (or VGA FFC) and they go to full screen mode your picture will look terrible.
Using tech like Fring's DVQ you can adjust the quality of the stream based on available bandwidth/connection speed and current "4G" technologies (HSPA+, LTE, and WiMax) are more than capable of handling HD Video Conferencing.
I know, because my internet connection here is slower than T-Mobile's 3G and I conference from my "home work computer" all the time using a HD WebCam.
Maybe you're in a different country/carrier but the video resolution is dictated by the carrier, not the device. So no mater how many MP you camera has, the carrier specifies it's video chat resolution.
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This information is patently false. What resolutions your video camera can record in is hardware. If it doesn't have a sensor capable of doing HD video, it won't do HD video.
The only way the carriers have anything to do with it, is if they ask the OEM to take out an HD FFC and replace it with VGA (which most will naturally do - NOW - because the demand for FFC is low and most people simply won't care).
But VGA quality streaming is terrible. I rather have a LED indicator at this point in time than a VGA front cam.
When 4G actually becomes standard and carriers stop charging an arm and a leg for it, video chat will take off.
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Current "4G" is not charged an arm and a leg for, and people here aren't forced to go with expensive carriers (AT&T and Verizon) unless they live in areas where the smaller networks cannot get them decent coverage, they want a phone exclusive to the carrier, or they can afford it and simply don't care about the price.
The reason Video Chatting didn't take off is because phones are already expensive enough. Putting a FFC in a phone usually means losing something else that has value ALL the time in ALL situations. Also, most phones do NOT have front facing cams on them, so there isn't much reason to want one right now. It's like getting a Blackberry for BBM, when you have no one to BBM... Why bother?
By the time FFCs become an "expected" feature, most people who brought a phone in 2010 will be getting ready to upgrade, and can simply get a phone with a FFC on it...
On top of that, most smartphone OSes don't have the capabilities in-built into the OS. Trying to video chat when you have people using 10 different video chat apps is ridiculously hard. You can't just download one client to access them all like you do for IM services. It's too much of a hassle right now. That's why BBM keeps people on Blackberries, but no one has heard of WhatsApp and half of the people you know on non-Android phones can't be bothered to download and use Google Talk.
The demand simply isn't that high, and people who need it for business reasons, etc. simply get a phone with that capability - irregardless of what OS it runs. Getting stuff done > preference.
Also, there are very, very few things that will kill your battery faster than video chatting.
A phone that turns off halfway during the day isn't fun to use - FFC or not.
ohgood said:
n8ter, i think you misunderstood the lead in sentances about what is available, and what will shortly available. it didn't read like a slam on wp7, or promoting android phones. you might be more sensitive in that area than needed ?
i'm very curious about if/when wp7 devices will have video calling. having a 3 way communication between an android, iphone, and wp7 would be such an awesome achievement technically speaking.
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I didn't misunderstand anything.
I'm just calling a spade a spade.
vetvito said:
WP7 doesn't support front facing cameras. As someone stated earlier maybe in WP8, or hopefully the Mango Update.
Another thing, you guys keep mentioning WP7 Minimum Specs, but you never mention the Restrictions. OEM's can't do a lot of stuff.
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You have no idea what WP7 supports, because you don't have access to Microsoft's repositories or a list of the device drivers they have written. It's totally possible that the OS supports FFC (i.e. has drivers written) but there is no phone with the hardware and no Applications to take advantage of it.
Putting a FFC in a phone comes at a price. Monetarily and sometimes it can degrade the quality of the back camera in addition to requiring the OEM to remove something else in the device to make room for that FFC.
No one but a Microsoft WP7 driver dev can confirm or deny what hardware the OS supports. Anything else is pure speculation.
Asking if the OS supports FFC is a bad question. The question should be:
"When will a WP7 device with a FFC be released?"
Because whether or not it can support a FFC is irrelevant as long as there are no devices out there with FFCs in them.
When the devices with FFCs are released, rest assured that Microsoft will have written the drivers for it, and it will work as expected.
And with them releasing Lync with WP7 soon, expect these devices to start propping up probably in the first half of next year, if not the first quarter.
Video Conferencing is a major feature of Lync (the next version of Office Communicator).
In all honesty, what on earth do you want a front-facing camera for?
I remember a few years back having an HTC Tytn with a FFC, and I made one video call with it. The video was really awful quality, about 1 frame per second, and I could hardly see what was going on on the other end. To top it all, the call cost me £3.00 (50p per minute) and that call wasn't even included in my free call plan so it was added to my bill.
Video calling is an overpriced pile of crap and I cannot for the life of me see why anyone would want to use it.
Do you know how many times my friends and family have asked me if I can take video calls in the last 5 years? Never. There's a reason for that, and before you say it, it's not due to a lack of friends and family!
It's a rubbish technology looking for idiot customers with deep pockets.
Jim Coleman said:
Video calling is an overpriced pile of crap and I cannot for the life of me see why anyone would want to use it.
Do you know how many times my friends and family have asked me if I can take video calls in the last 5 years? Never. There's a reason for that, and before you say it, it's not due to a lack of friends and family!
It's a rubbish technology looking for idiot customers with deep pockets.
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Absolutely right! I have TP2 with front camera. Only once did I use it in the last 2 years. It is not worth it at all. Plus I have to clean the dirt off the lense area, and it is a pain in the butt.
Well Carriers don't charge for the type of video calling that Jim Coleman is talking about. It works over you data connection.
But he's right, it's not a priority because hardly anyone uses it, or even wants to use it. Only a few first party IM clients support it, it's a ridiculous battery drain, and for all practical purposes it's simply inconvenient.
Don't want to have to stare at a phone screen and hold my phone a certain way for half of my phone calls. Thanks but no thanks...
i can say that it was probably added onto the windows 7 phone platform and then dropped right before they put out the final specs. the LG panther, first win7phone didnt have it but the Samsung Taylor did. the front camera doesnt do anything on my taylor on the release version, but i suspect that it might be a future spec.
Stop misusing the word spec.
Microsoft will not make a front-facing camera a required feature in WP7, at least not anytime soon.
They do, however, need to make LED indicator lights a required feature.
Related
I been using the iphone today.....what a smooth operator...everything just flows...the page animations the opening of applications...the look and feel, the way touch works. The typing (mind you Cooteks Touch and icontact is on par with it )very impressive...it even takes batter pictures than the cruise and its only got a 2meg camera...using my cruise everything is laggy....I cant wait for the drivers or update. If people like larna and others can do wonders to the speed of applications then what the hell are original developers and manufacturers doing. I say thank you for this forum...If HTC/Microsoft had been thorough as Apple was with the iphone the cruise/WM would be a different beast altogether.
I think Microsoft must be going through what Mercedes and BMW went through when the first Lexus model came out and caught them sleeping.
Nice phone the iphone but very limited when compared to ours....but things could change.
I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
I think a capacitive Display would help much. I'm often not sure if pressing a soft button worked. That makes working on it feeling laggy (beside slow program starts).
The WM developers have ignored any work on the UI for years. Now they got payback, the WM UI looks like an ugly Windows 95 UI and is totally outdated.
You can see that a smooth UI is possible by looking at pointui.
But do not forget the WM advantages.
All the availabe software, for example WMwifirouter.
That on iphone? I think it will never be...
Agreed....I can only fault Microsoft in Slow Deveopement....whereas the Manufacturers trying to make everyhing generic compatible instead of optimizing....now if they even aimed for the latter, no only would our devices be useably versatile, they would be decently fast and efficient.
We can only hope that WM7 will better developed for touch and hopefully not a memory hogger ...aka Vista.
On June 2008 the rumor say we will have a 3G Iphone + integrated GPS + open SDK. All for not more than $500 USD.
Nobody will touch the touch cruise with a stick at that point (unless the price will be reduced to $250, or something close). So I believe we're going to see new phones from HTC pretty soon.
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).
Noam23 said:
With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).
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I hate to say it but I think he's right.
I can and only will speak for myself, even though that may be the case for everyone else as well; but I use a WM based device because of the software. While the iPhone is faster, better looking, smoother flowing...as of right now it is locked down and requires hacks just to browse the file system!!
TheOnly1 said:
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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If you are reffering to the current iPhone, i would have to say you are DEAD on. However, if the new one lives up to what people are saying about it (an SDK, gps, 3g),
Then apple would have successfully created something that achieves both outcomes: A cool device with a fast, smooth flowing UI WITH functionality and productivity.
remoh said:
I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
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Actually, it is up to the OEMs, not microsoft, to optimize windows mobile for each of their devices. This is where HTC fails time after time in my mind.
Microsoft gives them every opportunity to implement things accelerated graphics, among other things. HTC does not do it!!
And then has the audacity to blame the customers for buying devices based on their chipsets instead of what is actually implemented (or NOT implemented -- LOL).
Since my last HTC purchase of the Touch Cruise, which cost me almost $900 I am extremely upset and dissapointed, not to mention disillusioned. The kaiser and the TC could have been great, but HTC did not want them to be -- they are slow, clunky, unresponsive at times, and i don't see why HTC even put a camera on them 'cause the pictures and video are better left not being captured at all.
If the new iphone lives up to it's promises, i see no reason to ever purchase, nor use another htc product ever again. That is the thing though...Apple is one of those companies I just do not trust and/or like....but just having the possibility of a device like the new iphone will keep my interest peaked!
If everything goes as planned, I believe that mobile developers will definately take advantage of the SDK.
While it will take many months for all the developers out there to create good applications, it will happen.
I'll actually go as far as saying that iPhone software will in fact exceed that of WM software in the future -- Provided that apple releases a decent sdk and does not place absurd restrictions on developers.
Think about it...how long have WM devices been out for...and what is their popularity?
Compare that to how long the iPhone has been out for, and it's popularity...
While currently they are for two completely different concepts;
one for user friendly every day usage, and one a "business" device...
apple seems to be combining both concepts into something that I would consider a "dream" device that I have been waiting for from HTC to put out for years now.
I thought that the TC would in fact be something closely resembling my "dream" device -- And after I actually used it and saw all of the problems with it first hand, I quickly recognized I was completly wrong.
Let's see if Apple can successfully accomplish what HTC has consistently set out to -- and subsequently failed to do so many times.
If they can pull this off, I will definately consider myself a proud iphone owner / user.
i have to admit the only reason i did not buy an iphone its because i did not want to switch to at&t and evryone where i work has one. i just wanted something different so i bought the touch cruise. i am regreting it even as i type. 700plus usd down the drain. when the new iphone is out this summer i am definitely getting one and switching to at&t
i wish i could get my hands on one of the htc developers. i would beat the life out of him. for real. i am mad and pissed. even the clone iphone, the hiphone which i saw with my own two eyes and held in my hands is better than touch cruise. its only 200usd
There are a lot of Touch user using WM device not having too many complaint. I like UI and build of iPhone, but I never forget the experience what smart phone of Nokia and Sony Ericsson running in Symbian. People will just imagine what Apple will enhance the iPhone and offer what we have used in WM device. Just like people asking why manufacturer not offering VGA device. Why don't have a look of the delay of Sony Ericsson X1? Keep an eye on what Apple implement the SDK into their iPhone and software developer introduce program, and to compare what we have with WM device. Looking forward to have a device running in X OS with VGA display with weeks of power with plenty choice of softwares .... and lastly without lag. Just like years ago we are looking for a VGA WM device. Manufacturer like HTC will make such device if it can.
Are you guys serious about the Touch Cruise camera being poor? It has one of the best cameras I've ever seen on a mobile, save for the lack of flash.
-3 Megapixels
-Autofocus
-Excellent macro mode (try taking a picture of anything close up (~3inches) with this vs. a normal camera under normal lighting...TC holds its own, or better yet take a picture of something close up and compare those results to those of an IPhone)
-Auto switch to night mode in poor lighting (remember camcorders with night mode also exhibit lag in night mode, but normal cameras don't lag as they don't use a night mode since they have a flash!)
I must agree with Sonus on the camera. I actually printed out some pictures I took with my TC and they were pretty much OK on paper.
i do believe the tc is a very good device with advantages and disadvantages same as the iphone.
the thing that annoys me most (also while writing this text) the input lags in the touch keyboard or other apps, e.g. switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.
the good things are:
100% customization
tons of apps - navigation, wlm etc
lastly, i have see the iphone hanging - it could not connect immediately to wifi
I'm positive Apple is not going to put HTC out of business on June 2008, when the 3G iphone is supposedly coming out.
HTC will definitely release formidable competition on fall 2008, probably the dream machines we always wanted to have. My only complaint is that the Touch Cruise / Kaiser have the hardware to be much of that "dream machine", but aren't so because HTC doesn't think it is necessary since these products are competitive enough as it is, in today's market.
I agree with the only1.
Just think of it in business terms, the iphone and touch cruise are aimed at different markets. HTC could probably produce a iphone type device but why should it. HTC devices are more business orientated and sold as such, they are not (imho) trying to compete with consumer based ideas and what looks sexy when playing music or videos. They are aimed at different markets.
If people want a device to look good show off pictures and videos and play music they buy a iphone, for gods sake its a ipod touch that makes calls, so no comparison.
If people want to do all of the above and have a device that can be used as a great business tool buy a touch cruise.
Okay there are some faults but they will probably be fixed on the next device but that too will have its shortcomings and we will give out **** about it and compare it to the newest goddam wonderful iphone, jphone, kphone or whatever with hdtv or can make coffee but thats life. I know we paid big money for what we have but for jaysus sake its "not ****en dark". i.e. you could see what your were buying.
Just my opinion.
A bit strong maybe but thats life.
I dont know what you guys have done to your devices to make the camera so good, but unless i am taking pictures outside when it is sunny out, it will NOT come out clearly at all -- it is very distorted and grainy, not to mention it slows down to a crawl! I have a sony cybershot 2.1 MP camera from 2002 that takes better pictures than a TC cam -- and it cost about 150$ 6 years ago. When its dark or indoors, the LCD on the cybershot doesn't slow down to 1-5 FPS.
Now people say that the TC is a business device and that's true.
But, I for one am sick of trading off functionality for performance on the business devices produced from HTC.
Why can't it be both at the same time?
Unfortuneately, I did go in the dark on this one. Before I bought the TC I didn't research the video driver problems.
I only looked at the specs, researched the chipset and thought I was getting something that would (at least) out perform my PPC-6700 that I purchased over 3 years ago. I was wrong. I don't think HTC will go out of business...not at all, but i DO think that alot of people are in a similar boat that I am in...betrayed by HTC and will continue to hold a grudge against them, and subsequently switch to someone who can provide something better in the future...hopefully, that can be Apple...but I definately have some doubts to say the least, considering what the current iPhone came out as -- a Media player with a phone on it.
PseudoReal said:
switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.i
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OMG, i have the SAME problem...it is the WORST!!
you have to tap the stupid triangle like 50 times just to get it to switch.
It's an atrocity. Devices from 3 years ago do not even have this problem.
Business device or not, this is just plain unacceptable.
Unless there is a fix for this problem, or I am doing something wrong and do not know about it?
How many ppl have similar experience?
I have that same problem. Takes multiple clicks and major lag to get the input keyboard to show up. The reason I have to chance keyboards is I often use Opera 9.5 and for some reason none of the Touch keypads work with it, so I have to switch them (I think that's another problem could be related to Opera still being beta). Also every once in awhile I can't get to the PocketCM keyboard and instead get the lame Windows default one. But that also is another problem.
Back to the lag, every once in awhile I will get lag here or there, e.g. will click on the task manager on the top right and not get anything, keep clicking around with no response. Then all of a sudden all the clicks take effect and I will see the task manager menu open and close in succession real quick.
All in all it's a good device, great functionality, just a few quirks here or there. Maybe it's time to hard-reset or flash a new ROM that might solve some of these things, who knows.
Oh forgot, as for the camera lag with the low FPS in low light conditions, check out this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=365345
HTH
thanks for that... the "trick" described in the first post does increase the response by 10 fps or so, but the thing is, the picture quality also goes down...its a lose/lose situation i guess lol...I also noticed that there is a new .dll fix on the HTC E-club, but only for the kaiser. I tried to login but it says theyre doing maintainance right now, so I can't check if there's anything released for the TC...even so I doubt there is
but my issue is, and always has been..why should i need to do all of these tricks and patches for a device that costs as much as the TC does? I shouldn't. No one should.
also another thing that came to my mind...people and HTC say this is a "business device"...so i was thinking, wouldn't business users want their devices to be MORE responsive than a media player / cool trendy "sexy" device?
I mean when you need to wait 5 seconds and tap the screen multiple times to play a music file, it's not really that big of a deal...it's an annoyance yes but it doesn't result in you losing work time..or a loss of productivity
but when you need to tap the X button 5 times to close out of a document and switch to your email...or taking notes and browsing web pages for work related stuff...or trying to switch between SIP's...and having to wait because the device lags worse than windows 95...it becomes a loss of productivity...
even if it's only seconds, those seconds add up, and the annoyances stock pile into one big ball of rage for me at least, heh.
I do admit that my own foolishness and quickness to buy a new device is partly to blame here. I should have looked into it more. But I also think that HTC holds a good part of the blame as well.
hopefully the geniuses here can come up with some good fast custom roms that will deal with these issues...i won't hold my breath waiting for this patch to come out from HTC at the end of the month. I'm doubtful that it will do anything at all.
Middle of the press conference now...
"
10:57 AM: Pricing is $179 with a 2-year. Existing customers can order online today. Launch date is October 22nd. There will be a $25 unlimited data with “some” messaging, and $35 unlimited everything plan.
10:58 AM: By middle of November, 17 markets will be 3G hotness.
10:59 AM: Early November in U.K. and across Europe in early 2009.
"
Bow chicka bow wowwww.
Add-on:
"No tethering, and the cool $25 data plan requires a voice plan.
11:01 AM: Any Microsoft Office document support and Exchange support? 3rd party devs will be the Exchange supporters so that’s cool at least. Roadsync, get at us!!!! And it is SIM locked to T-Mobile.
11:02 AM: Gmail is push on here.
11:03 AM: Desktop app for syncing everything? Nope, not initially. Everything happens over the network.
11:04 AM: It will be available outside 3G markets, but you’ll have to order it online. Plus, it does have Wi-Fi."
http://htcsource has some great coverage info from the event.
$179 is incredible!
nickmgray said:
http://htcsource has some great coverage info from the event.
$179 is incredible!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, first of all, it is T-Mobile so they have to do a lot with the pricing to persuade people to jump over from AT&T with iPhone. Second, it's a device whose operating system has never been used, and let's face it, it can't get HTC a good profit if they sell ONLY to tech geeks like us.
So to get someone who's never heard of Android to switch from a wireless provider powerhouse to a company that's still setting up their 3G network will take a kick... I think the $179 price tag can do it.
Thundarr The Barbarian said:
Well, first of all, it is T-Mobile so they have to do a lot with the pricing to persuade people to jump over from AT&T with iPhone. Second, it's a device whose operating system has never been used, and let's face it, it can't get HTC a good profit if they sell ONLY to tech geeks like us.
So to get someone who's never heard of Android to switch from a wireless provider powerhouse to a company that's still setting up their 3G network will take a kick... I think the $179 price tag can do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I'm on AT&T right now (I *was* waiting for the Rapheal upgrade). Even I'm considering the switch to this.
Any official specs for the G1?
Here's the little beauty!
http://www.htc.com/www/product/G1/overview.html
P.S. looks like it is going to be available in Black too, according to T-Mobile site.
http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/t-mobileg1-whats-hot/
Well It looks like my hermes has just met its successor....I can't wait to see what people offer in terms of skinning this puppy.
528mhz processor, 192 ram, 256 rom, 3.2mp camera, are we seeing any similarities here?
It's a Diamond with Android for T-Mobile.
Well, it also has a hardware keyboard, and apparently also has 1gb built-in memory + memory card slot, so it's not "just" a Diamond.
But only a HVGA (480x320) display. Also Android 1.0 doesn't have all components fully functional, so there doesn't seem to be any video recording or A2DP at the moment.
The hands-on previews have more or less confirmed that the display is capacitive instead of resistive (no stylus). And the unit is plastic, not metallic.
Actually, i'm waiting for the ports to devices like the HTC Touch Diamond
Indeed, but as for the chipset and basic hardware, for all intensive purposes it's a Diamond. Add-ons are different, MicroSD/built-in flash, keyboard, screen... But the heart is the same. That 7201 processor is getting thrown all over the place, it's now in the Touch Pro/Touch Diamond/Xperia X1/Touch HD/G1/... I feel like I'm missing one, but you get the idea.
keerttttt said:
Actually, i'm waiting for the ports to devices like the HTC Touch Diamond
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, with the fact that the hardware is similar it might make it easier... Then again I don't know my elbow from my ass when it comes to porting an OS, so don't take my word for it.
Thundarr The Barbarian said:
Indeed, but as for the chipset and basic hardware, for all intensive purposes it's a Diamond. Add-ons are different, MicroSD/built-in flash, keyboard, screen... But the heart is the same. That 7201 processor is getting thrown all over the place, it's now in the Touch Pro/Touch Diamond/Xperia X1/Touch HD/G1/... I feel like I'm missing one, but you get the idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So that's great, but i guess we have to wait for a port till the first real device hits someone's xda-developers his hands right?.. or could we port the SDK? As far as i know (and what i've seen in the past) ports from the SDK to a phone were not really functional enough...
Anyhow, i guess time will tell..
Thundarr The Barbarian said:
528mhz processor, 192 ram, 256 rom, 3.2mp camera, are we seeing any similarities here?
It's a Diamond with Android for T-Mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except ...
3.2-inch TFT-LCD flat touch-sensitive screen with HVGA (320 X 480 pixel) resolution.
Full 5-row QWERTY keyboard.
---
I like the idea of the bigger keyboard.
Still .. the Rapheal has the Video-Out port and 640x480 (iirc). Errr ... the choices to be made! But, I was considering doing the iPhone as my next phone .. this seems like a plausible alternative, as I think the app-makers will flock to the Google OS simply because of it's open nature compared to Apple.
KyleK29 said:
Except ...
3.2-inch TFT-LCD flat touch-sensitive screen with HVGA (320 X 480 pixel) resolution.
Full 5-row QWERTY keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but the android platform is made to be used in a lot of phones in the future, so i'll guess it should work with or without it. Same thing for the resolution and size on the screen of the G1 and the Diamond.
---
I like the idea of the bigger keyboard.
Still .. the Rapheal has the Video-Out port and 640x480 (iirc). Errr ... the choices to be made! But, I was considering doing the iPhone as my next phone .. this seems like a plausible alternative, as I think the app-makers will flock to the Google OS simply because of it's open nature compared to Apple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
keerttttt said:
True, but the android platform is made to be used in a lot of phones in the future, so i'll guess it should work with or without it. Same thing for the resolution and size on the screen of the G1 and the Diamond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't doubt it'll work with other devices (pending driver support/etc). I was replying to the post that said it was a Diamond with the Google OS. The major differences of course were the 3.2" screen and the QWERTY keyboard.
Anyone got a screen-size comparison up (I can't remember the website that compared screen sizes as 3 rectangle models)?
/'
G1 has a 3.2" screen (as stated) and the iPhone has a 3.5" screen. Both footprints (length and width) are almost the same, but the G1 is a little thicker.
Site for size comparison is Sizeasy.
About Android being an open platform for many devices: yes there's an SDK, but there's no telling if Google will offer driver support for DIYers like here at XDA, or if it's only for OEMs who will pre-install Android on their devices at the factory. Fortunately, since the first device is from HTC, much of the hardware should be the same, meaning the cooks here might be able to copy the drivers that ship on the G1 over to the Diamond/et al without too much fuss. This is all circumstantial, but it does help the odds.
Gotta say... i'm a bit disappointed.
No video playback, no video recording (yet)
Only usb adapter headphones... Somehow i expected more.
it does have video playback. there's a video on engadget.com showing an app that allows video playback. as far as video recording, it's sad that it's missing it. . .
Ok, enough of the doom & gloom, Google's mantra is release early & iterate so as my son would say (as he looks at the lego pile) LETS GET BUILDING. The challenge to the XDA crowd is to make this phone usable, better and blow away whatever else is out there. Look at what this team has done cooking ROM's, breaking locks and tweaking this stuff without any support from the companies. Imagine what can happen if Android is truly open access and we can post the code, experiment and make applications that are truly useful.
Just my .02
compatible with att 3G or 4G?
Dear All,
I know this is more of a WinMo oriented forum, I still could your advice as mobile enthusiasts.
I'm in the market for a new phone. I've narrowed my selection to the Iphone 3GS or Omnia HD.
I like to do everything, so the more options the merrier.
My problems with the Iphone:
-Where I live, it's expensive as hell. I'm talking 1000$
-Apple is doing good playing catch on the hardware options, but it's still missing things i value like an fm radio and a good camera.
My problems with the Omnia HD:
-Unknown territory with the new symbian performance.
-no app store.
The TP2 is too bulky for my taste, the new xperia X2/X3 might take ages to arrive and N97.....well i just dint like it.
My last phone was the Xperia, was happy with it, tragically died in an accident. Infact, if i don't decide, i'll probably get another xperia.
Any ideas, advice, suggestions?
1000$ ????? There are fools that spend this money??? No iPhone!!!
D'rath
D'rath said:
1000$ ????? There are fools that spend this money??? No iPhone!!!
D'rath
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude, it's horrible!. The 32gb 3GS is going for 1250$.......
utrx said:
Dear All,
I know this is more of a WinMo oriented forum, I still could your advice as mobile enthusiasts.
I'm in the market for a new phone. I've narrowed my selection to the Iphone 3GS or Omnia HD.
I like to do everything, so the more options the merrier.
My problems with the Iphone:
-Where I live, it's expensive as hell. I'm talking 1000$
-Apple is doing good playing catch on the hardware options, but it's still missing things i value like an fm radio and a good camera.
My problems with the Omnia HD:
-Unknown territory with the new symbian performance.
-no app store.
The TP2 is too bulky for my taste, the new xperia X2/X3 might take ages to arrive and N97.....well i just dint like it.
My last phone was the Xperia, was happy with it, tragically died in an accident. Infact, if i don't decide, i'll probably get another xperia.
Any ideas, advice, suggestions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where I live is also very expensive to buy a device, what I do is to buy overseas so I can get good prices, said that and regarding your question,
my personal opinion is to go for HTC Hero, Diamond 2, or Toshiba tg01 if you are worried about tp2 too bulky.
I would never think on buy Iphone or Omnia...
Just my 2 pesos
Good luck on your desicion!
utrx said:
My problems with the Iphone:
-Where I live, it's expensive as hell. I'm talking 1000$
-Apple is doing good playing catch on the hardware options, but it's still missing things i value like an fm radio and a good camera.
My problems with the Omnia HD:
-Unknown territory with the new symbian performance.
-no app store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, to begin, I want to comment on the price. My friend, $1000? I'm guessing it's the unlocked retail version. If you purchase it online, you can save quite a bit of change. On the other hand, the Omnia HD is now surprisingly cheap. In fact, I have been watching it since it's release, and it has steadily went down in price (on eBay, at least) by $20 every week. When it was released, it would have cost you $720 online. You can now get it for $600 (even less if you're diligent).
But enough about price, lets get to the point. From my perspective, this is what it comes down to:
1) Screen - Omnia HD; not only is the i8910's screen bigger and it's AMOLED, but it even has a better resolution.
2) Battery Life - Roughly equal
3) Specs - Equal; Both have the Cortex A8 600Mhz with an accelerated video chip
4) Camera - Absolutely Omnia HD; the picture is of a better quality, higher res, and video recording is far superior.
5) Applications - iPhone; Do I need to explain why?
Ultimately, as my evaluation above suggests, the question really comes down to what is more important: The i8910's HD capability or the iPhone's incredibly variety of apps.
You're worried about Symbian's performance, but it performs very well (albeit the i8910 seems to stutter in some places). One thing is for sure: It performs better than Windows Mobile (sorry guys). What is my opinion regarding these two phones (which I happen to have an interest in myself)?
If you were to ask me, I would go with the Omnia HD. The price plays a large factor in it, but what really turned the table was the incredible specs. The 3.7in, capacitive AMOLED is simply impossible to ignore and the CPU is just damn nice. The camera's capability is also very impressive, albeit I do not worry much about phone cameras myself. Word of warning, however: there have been multiple complaints regarding this aspect of the Omnia. Many says it does not work as advertised and it is true to an extent (for example, the listed 24fps recording is not completely accurate).
Furthermore, while performance on Symbian shouldn't be an issue, the variety of apps really is disappointing. Windows Mobile itself seems to beat Symbian in apps. The i8910 and the 3GS has the same CPU, but honestly, the iPhone's apps makes far better use of the power. Truthfully, Symbian itself is a rather old OS and it badly needs an overhaul to compete better with new OSes. These new revisions just aren't cutting it.
Anyway, to reiterate my stance, here is the main benefits of each phone:
Omnia HD
1) Best screen
2) Great camera/HD capabilities (although not perfect)
3) Great interface
4) Better extra specs (e.g. secondary camera, FM radio, etc)
iPhone 3GS
1) Best apps/games by far
2) 3GS is available in America and makes better use of American 3G (i8910 does not have 850 frequency)
3) Better support/community (this is debatable)
Whichever above is more important to you, I suggest you get that phone.
8525Smart said:
Well, to begin, I want to comment on the price. My friend, $1000? I'm guessing it's the unlocked retail version. If you purchase it online, you can save quite a bit of change. On the other hand, the Omnia HD is now surprisingly cheap. In fact, I have been watching it since it's release, and it has steadily went down in price (on eBay, at least) by $20 every week. When it was released, it would have cost you $720 online. You can now get it for $600 (even less if you're diligent).
But enough about price, lets get to the point. From my perspective, this is what it comes down to:
1) Screen - Omnia HD; not only is the i8910's screen bigger and it's AMOLED, but it even has a better resolution.
2) Battery Life - Roughly equal
3) Specs - Equal; Both have the Cortex A8 600Mhz with an accelerated video chip
4) Camera - Absolutely Omnia HD; the picture is of a better quality, higher res, and video recording is far superior.
5) Applications - iPhone; Do I need to explain why?
Ultimately, as my evaluation above suggests, the question really comes down to what is more important: The i8910's HD capability or the iPhone's incredibly variety of apps.
You're worried about Symbian's performance, but it performs very well (albeit the i8910 seems to stutter in some places). One thing is for sure: It performs better than Windows Mobile (sorry guys). What is my opinion regarding these two phones (which I happen to have an interest in myself)?
If you were to ask me, I would go with the Omnia HD. The price plays a large factor in it, but what really turned the table was the incredible specs. The 3.7in, capacitive AMOLED is simply impossible to ignore and the CPU is just damn nice. The camera's capability is also very impressive, albeit I do not worry much about phone cameras myself. Word of warning, however: there have been multiple complaints regarding this aspect of the Omnia. Many says it does not work as advertised and it is true to an extent (for example, the listed 24fps recording is not completely accurate).
Furthermore, while performance on Symbian shouldn't be an issue, the variety of apps really is disappointing. Windows Mobile itself seems to beat Symbian in apps. The i8910 and the 3GS has the same CPU, but honestly, the iPhone's apps makes far better use of the power. Truthfully, Symbian itself is a rather old OS and it badly needs an overhaul to compete better with new OSes. These new revisions just aren't cutting it.
Anyway, to reiterate my stance, here is the main benefits of each phone:
Omnia HD
1) Best screen
2) Great camera/HD capabilities (although not perfect)
3) Great interface
4) Better extra specs (e.g. secondary camera, FM radio, etc)
iPhone 3GS
1) Best apps/games by far
2) 3GS is available in America and makes better use of American 3G (i8910 does not have 850 frequency)
3) Better support/community (this is debatable)
Whichever above is more important to you, I suggest you get that phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iPhone does not need support, you download the appliations, you use it, that's it. It doesn't function for tweaking and it doesn't feature running as a background processes. So it is very unlikely for you to have trouble. Really, when the phone freezes you don't need a community for that to sticky that. All you need is to google or use yahoo answers to get that.
Also using Cydia and unlocking your device is easy. No community is needed.
Furthermore the applications are comparable to Symbian because obviously the applications only run in foreground, therefore making the applications pointless and ****ty.
You have to understand that when you install applications in iPhone you don't really change the settings, so there is almost rarely a chance for program incompatibility...once again, they run in the foreground only 1 AT A TIME. So support for this phone? It's not needed.
yup same here in my country. iphone 3G was about $1000 before the 3GS released.
and IMO if i were u, i would still get xperia. It was familiar for me, no need to worry if i got some errors, many apps had been collected, what else? as long as u're satisfied, nothing's wrong to buy it again
I got my iPhone a few weeks ago..............best phone ever! As much as I'd love to talk about all the great things, I think the name iPhone says enough Camera isn't bad it's quick and takes good pics. MMS has an easy solution email, every cell phone has an email address u can send/rec pics with. Light, very fast, good battery, perfect touch ui, safari, and iPod. If ur worried about fm radio there are plenty of free apps to stream local radio stations.
poetryrocksalot said:
iPhone does not need support, you download the appliations, you use it, that's it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, but it does. Community/support simply doesn't mean help for when you have trouble using the iPhone. Those things you mentioned (jailbreaking, Cydia, etc)? Those were things created by the iPhone community.
I suppose we may refer to them as different things, but I have always consider all things related to a particular device/software/etc to be that particular thing's community (e.g. XDA would be a part of the Windows Mobile community). Whichever we want to refer to it as, however, the iPhone undoubtedly has a very large and active group of people working to improve it, and I don't see why they shouldn't be included.
After all, look at how many people here takes into consideration 'XDA support' as a reason to purchase a particular phone or not, so I think it's a valid thing to include.
orb3000, 8525Smart, TheChampJT, ingerasu.
I thank you for the information you provided.
Yes, i have heard about how the Omnia's HD camera does not do 24fps and the sound is usually out of sync.......I need to download videos from reviews and check it out first hand.
So far I'm leaning towards the Omnia. I get addicted to Apps(iPhone) and Flashing(WinMo), perhaps the lack of them with the Omnia will be a bit of a relief. What I see is almost all of what I get.
If I find an Omnia HD around for an accepatble price, I'll get it.
Everyone has an Iphone, need to diversify
TheChampJT said:
I got my iPhone a few weeks ago..............best phone ever! As much as I'd love to talk about all the great things, I think the name iPhone says enough Camera isn't bad it's quick and takes good pics. MMS has an easy solution email, every cell phone has an email address u can send/rec pics with. Light, very fast, good battery, perfect touch ui, safari, and iPod. If ur worried about fm radio there are plenty of free apps to stream local radio stations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good for you!
Shame you won´t have more customisation/personalization/flashing...
Any grandma out there can have one exactly identical to yours
Hope at least you save one winmo/htc to play with it!
Cheers friend!
utrx said:
Everyone has an Iphone, need to diversify
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said!
don't get these posts what do people expect to get as reply?
it's like going to www.worldhunger.com and asking give to the needy or whopper with bacon ?
IPhone does have excellent support community. In fact even better than XDA in my opinion. The amount of tweaks and customization that iPhone geeks do would shock you guys. Check out for example www.modmyi.com. All the popular Cydia software vendors have dedicated sub forums there. People there do go very deep into tweaking.
i would rather have the IPhone 3Gs over the Omnia HD.
just my opinion....
crazy talk said:
i would rather have the IPhone 3Gs over the Omnia HD.
just my opinion....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can record video with a Iphone 3Gs yes but you cant still do a video call with a a 1000 USD phone and no optional memory can be inserted.
Is Steves engineers retards or something? Like then they build the macbook air.
While with a 100 USD phone I expand its memory, take better pictures and even do a videocall.
So why pay 1000 USD for Iphone?
Besides my S/E X1 I have Omnia HD. If S/E had given the X1 a bigger screen like the Omnia. Then the X1 would have been better. Cause the current isn't finger friendly like Omnia HD.
Why do people keep forgetting that application is the most important thing to look at? Camera is but just one of the many applications. There are many more that we need. Whichever could deliver the best application solutions is the winner.
newuser888 said:
Why do people keep forgetting that application is the most important thing to look at? Camera is but just one of the many applications. There are many more that we need. Whichever could deliver the best application solutions is the winner.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not even the best, just what you need in a presentation you like using.
i know this is a Winmo forum so iphone=crap. but it really is a decent device.
the OP will not be disappointed in either phone. so his best bet is to try both.
to me atleast you really cannot make a bad choice when it comes to current smartphones. they all work quite well.
Listed 4 choices in the poll, if you vote Other... please post a reply with what you think would make an android/iOS/blackberry user convert to wp7.
i guess less microsoft would be the right answer. what a pitty that this really powerfull devices can't even play most avi videos just because they are divx or xvid. mkv can't be played to. mobile phones are focussed on multimedia, but that's not a good deal. who wants to use or convert almost everything to wmv? nobody!
and zune is a pretty nice software buit people don't want to be forced to use it. That's what many complain abot iphone and itunes, and is most probably the reason they pick up android.
Only apple is able to do stupid things like that because they aim a very special group of consumers, who doesn't care what the devices can do. they just need to have the newest fancy apple product.
What a shame, because on the other side i think winphone7 is really the most modern and sophisticated OS at the moment.
Definitely not the first 3 choices.
I voted "other" thinking about UI workflow and different concept of this.
Devices and Marketing are worse than other platforms.
Some features are better but there is alot missing too.
Other: The Apple/Google Brand name. People have a tendency to buy any crap from Apple or Google these days as long as its not Microsoft.
But yeah in the long run thru good word of mouth WP7 will eventually win
Interesting answers...
I associate microsoft and windows with good software. Just look at Office and tell me it's not the ****. On the other hand, Apple does make very "pretty" software. It makes you feel special when you use it because it animates and looks a certain way.
Google has always been the odd one, it has horrible UI and their chrome browser is ugly as well.
I agree with everyone else to an extent, but I actually think that the biggest thing is that it is lacking in features. You can't send video clips via text message, you can't have custom alert sounds and you can't even have custom ring tones (without hacking it). I think that missing features such as these is a major turn off for people looking for a new phone.
Windows Phone 7 needs a constant and unending series of free commercials losely disguised as the evening news. Just in day to day contact it seems like the majority of people don't really "hate" MSFT, but they love to get caught up in the hype provided by the masters of buzz, Apple and the likes. MSFT should just drop some checks in the pockets of these pseudo-reporters we know as bloggers and buy their buzz.
We all know that the masses do not really care about the number of cores, an extra 0.1 inch of screen size, or an extra megapixel of camera resolution (if they did the iPhone would not be eatng other manufacturer's lunch). They want to walk into the room and when they take out their phone they want someone to say "is that the latest iPhone?"
This is not a slight at iPhone users, I still have my 3GS, but today people's phones are like their car or wardrobe. It's sometime a fashion accessory.
Sorry to ramble. I know I'm not saying anything that those on this forum haven't already observed.
Nobody975 said:
I agree with everyone else to an extent, but I actually think that the biggest thing is that it is lacking in features. You can't send video clips via text message, you can't have custom alert sounds and you can't even have custom ring tones (without hacking it). I think that missing features such as these is a major turn off for people looking for a new phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Video to text, and custom ring tones added to mango
Sent from my Windows Phone Mango Focus using Board Express
mikroland said:
Video to text, and custom ring tones added to mango
Sent from my Windows Phone Mango Focus using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I Actually just upgraded to mango and I have found many nice upgrades, but I was unable to attach a video to a text. Maybe I'm just doing something wrong! lol I'm still disappointed though that it is such a tedious process to use a custom ringtone... I should be able to just pick a song under Zune, hiold it for a sec. and choose an option "Set as ringtone"...But, that is not how easy it is...Not too much of a problem for me, but I have a few friends who are bothered by it.
...I voted for "better marketing". Having had GSM devices since the beginning and having been a "WM Power User" for a couple of years, flashing and tweaking everything I was able to lay hands on, I can say that WP7, even in the actual NoDo-Version is the most awesome OS I ever used. Before settling for WP7, I also tried Android on an HTC HD2 and I found it had basically the same problems as WM6.5 WP7 is working "out of the box" and I don't need to spend hours flashing and tweaking to make in run smoothly. There are of course some features which are still missing, but most of them will be included in Mango. And Mango will not be the end of the line.....
WP7 needs a better and more agressive marketing. Apple managed to establish "iPhone" as synonym for "smartphone" and ironically with hardware which has never been top technology. Even with the millions of Apple and Android devices in the market, this only scratches the surface of the potential and future markets of smartphones which goes into billions. The WP7 alliance of Microsoft, the makers, the providers and the trade have to find an efficient way to communicate the advantages of the WP7 philosophy (don't let your phone take over your life) to the non technic affine public, which actually are the hughe majority of the potential users.....
It actually needs all of these. In fact, it's an easy textbook case in terms of theory, here's what they need:
1. Meaningful effective positioning and branding. The "Really?" ads won't cut it. The "In and Out" message is totally missing the point, nobody understands what it's about. Using the "Windows Phone" name is totally stupid.
2. Variety of cool and sexy hardware (not the 4.7" Eternity stuff, and not just one or two decent phones, with all the buzzwords in place such as megapixels, gigabytes, super AMOLED plus ultra, what not), shelf presence everywhere (countries, operators), and of course training/stimulating floor staff.
3. Completed concept of hubs/integration, for third party apps/services to really be an integral part of the OS, or "immersive" as MS call it.
4. Seamless backup/device-to-device migration, carrying over settings, app data etc. This isn't crucial right now, but will be a must have in a year or so, and could be a differentiating factor over Android, although it's more important for markets where handsets aren't subsidized. In the US this can wait. However, a migration path from Android/iOS would be useful even there.
5. Integration with "big" Windows, Windows on tablets which would work well with WP7, together with repositioned/rebranded/streamlined Live services which should be a joy to use as opposed to current PITA state.
6. Introducing lots of things for media to talk about over the next year or two.
7. Profit
Unfortunately, 1. is out of the question, not gonna happen. Hardware depends on manufacturers (Nokia alone won't do it). Most other things, even if understood at Microsoft, will take a year at least. So don't expect anything radically exciting happening this year.
Numbers.
It's a numbers game - more devices = more users.
Also have it so that my WP7 phone will mount as a hard drive without Zune software. So dumb that it doesn't. All of my Androids do that!
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
Well, screensize is a matter of personal preference. Millions of iphoners can attest to that.
I, personally, won't pass judgement on the Titan's screen until I see it in person.
Based on what you've posted, I'd recommend either waiting for Nokia devices or take a look at Samsung Focus S when it hits.
Although, I do agree that OEMS have been less than forthcoming with their cutting edge devices thus far. The Venue Pro could have been such an animal had it not had a myriad of issues early on.
Okbye.
yes because every single android device has monster specs and doesn't try to market to different audiences increasing share and permeability...
seriously this iteration is Microsoft and OEMs using different market points to create presence and alternatives
Dual core is next year, so either wait or not buy it...it's that simple
I think the screen sizes between 3.5 and 4.0 are awesome :-D just the way I want the screens to be;-) still hoped for some dual core, but wp is designed especially for one type of processor, so It's probably therefore it is still singlecore
sent with love from me to you
domineus said:
yes because every single android device has monster specs and doesn't try to market to different audiences increasing share and permeability...
seriously this iteration is Microsoft and OEMs using different market points to create presence and alternatives
Dual core is next year, so either wait or not buy it...it's that simple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is Microsoft thinks that WP7 sales were slack because the handsets were too expensive. The reality is the handsets were a year (or more) out of date before they hit the shelves. They were pushing 3G phones with a series 1 CPU and no FFC in stores next to high end 4G phones with all the accessories. Now all we have are these puny low res screens on underpowered phones! Shameful!
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
andrewkeith5 said:
Cut for size
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Click to collapse
I just wanted to come to this thread and say: Amen, brotha.
You couldn't have explained it better.
Xodium said:
I just wanted to come to this thread and say: Amen, brotha.
You couldn't have explained it better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! You can probably tell that little rant has been brewing up for quite some time reading some of the posts on here!
mlococo said:
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Guess what's going to happen when iPhone 5 hits? Long lines and a sellout.
Guess what's going to happen when the second generation of WP7 phones hit? Short lines and overstock.
mlococo said:
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sort of agree, but only a little. For WP7 to be successful, they need to push out some hardware that blows people away. Not necessarily in specs, but in design. The new Focus S or whatever it will be called is pretty impressive, but they need to stop developing behind the curve and start innovating on some hardware. Maybe that's MS's plan with Nokia and the newly signed HTC and Samsung contracts. I know that WP7 will outperform a dual-core Android with nothing more than a few generation past snapdragon, but why not throw in a dual-core anyway? My Focus is buttery smooth 99% of the time, but a dual-core and some extra RAM will speed up app loading immensely.
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey buddy, please correct your words...we didn't say that WP7 running on single core is slow,please get us right...the reason why we want dual-core is more future proof...
future proof,read it again...microsoft has disappointed me twice since I just love WP7 like you,1st is the HTC HD2 and it can't run a real or proper WP7 due to microsoft don't want to support it.Then,i went for Mozart just for wp7,and now Microsoft says that only one major update per year, therefore, I don't think mozart is up for the next update no new feature,secondary camera, gyroscope for better augmented reality, kinect integration&etc....
So, get us right,before you write man...everyone knows that WP7 is fast on single core,but no future proof...not everyone is rich a$$ and able to buy new mobile phone every year. We want something can last for at least 2 years.
Specs > Design. If Nokia ships phones with Titan/Focus S specs they will not be able to attract the amount of conversions they need.
What Microsoft needs is conversions, not turnover.
Conversion: Android/iOS/WebOS/BB users switching to WP7.
Turn-Over: Us upgrading because we want more up-to-date handsets.
Android got where it is because it was able to convert a ton of Windows Mobile/BB/WebOS and even some iOS people to Android, not through turn-over.
Cute phones don't make those people come to WP7, when the internals are a year or more behind the competition. It's not just about power. Newer SoCs allow for LTE and faster HSPA+ data connections (this is why T-Mobile is using a Qualcomm instead of Exynos in their Galaxy S II). It allows for high-def Video Chatting. NFC. WiFi Direct. Bluetooth 3.0, etc.
Keep in mind, a lot of those features were on phones a year ago.
Microsoft's hardware specs have really held OEMs back. Part of the reason why Advertising for WP7 is so bad is cause the carriers and OEMs are really struggling to find a story to tell. The handsets, even if the design is nice, simply won't have that with the way Microsoft keeps the OEMs on that leash...
And with users come more and better dev support.
I've spend the better part of 3-4 days going through the app market and there's hardly any non-game apps worth installing (outside of some obvious ones, of course). Hardly any of them have been updated to Mango, and there are apps that I paid for which haven't been updated in ~6 months...
Yes, WP7 has to catch up. Software isn't the only way they need to catch up. They need to catch up with device specs as well.
The 4G phones coming to AT&T are 14.4 Mbps HSPA+ devices. The Galaxy S II on AT&T is a 21 Mbps device. T-Mobile's Galaxy S II is a 42 Mbps device, I doubt the Radar 4G will be above 14.4 unless they use an SoC we don't anticipate. The Price of the phones didn't have anything to do with the slow uptake of WP7 on release. The state of the OS had everything to do with that. It's one thing to be told something. It's another thing for people to see what it really performed like when they went in the store (and by performed, I'm not talking about raw speed).
Even now that Mango is out. So little apps are taking advantage of its new features that they need to really push for developers to get on the ball to updating their apps and supporting them. To a consumer trying devices out in a carrier store (only choice for a lot of them, since most of their friends don't have WP7 devices), a lot of Mango's changes seem purely cosmetic because of that. Microsoft haven't even updated most of their own apps on the marketplace for Mango...
N8ter said:
Specs > Design. If Nokia ships phones with Titan/Focus S specs they will not be able to attract the amount of conversions they need.
What Microsoft needs is conversions, not turnover.
Conversion: Android/iOS/WebOS/BB users switching to WP7.
Turn-Over: Us upgrading because we want more up-to-date handsets.
Android got where it is because it was able to convert a ton of Windows Mobile/BB/WebOS and even some iOS people to Android, not through turn-over.
Cute phones don't make those people come to WP7, when the internals are a year or more behind the competition. It's not just about power. Newer SoCs allow for LTE and faster HSPA+ data connections (this is why T-Mobile is using a Qualcomm instead of Exynos in their Galaxy S II). It allows for high-def Video Chatting. NFC. WiFi Direct. Bluetooth 3.0, etc.
Keep in mind, a lot of those features were on phones a year ago.
Microsoft's hardware specs have really held OEMs back. Part of the reason why Advertising for WP7 is so bad is cause the carriers and OEMs are really struggling to find a story to tell. The handsets, even if the design is nice, simply won't have that with the way Microsoft keeps the OEMs on that leash...
And with users come more and better dev support.
I've spend the better part of 3-4 days going through the app market and there's hardly any non-game apps worth installing (outside of some obvious ones, of course). Hardly any of them have been updated to Mango, and there are apps that I paid for which haven't been updated in ~6 months...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true. My sentiments exactly.
Part of it is good: They've added a lot of integrated functionality that reduces the need to install 3rd party apps. Shazam is useless on WP7 for me, for example (just one example).
Part of it is Bad: There are a lot of good apps on other platforms that seem like they don't care, and apps that were released early on, like Twitter/Birdsong that seem to have fallen out of support. Maybe the dev of Birdsong made enough cash and don't feel the need to update the app anymore?
Board Express Pro hasn't updated their app in forever as well, and that's a $3 app.
IMO, if you don't plan on supporting your app in the marketplace, it shouldn't cost anything. I have tended to ignore paid apps (don't even consider them, and don't even look at them) now unless they're a reputable app from a reputable developer. I'll buy BeejiveIM if it comes to WP7, I'll buy TapaTalk if it comes to WP7. If I had to do it again, I wouldn't buy Birdsong or Board Express Pro.
My days paying for apps are numbered. It's the developers' fault, too.
I think a lot of Microsoft's initial goal was Conversion of non-smartphone users. I don't have anything to prove it, but I wouldn't be surprised if a large amount of Android's marketshare comes from mid/low range devices.
N8tr,
Weren't you the one upset in an older thread that "all the apps are mango" and you couldn't use them because mango wasn't officially released yet... And now your upset that not enough apps are mango...
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
mlococo said:
The problem is Microsoft thinks that WP7 sales were slack because the handsets were too expensive. The reality is the handsets were a year (or more) out of date before they hit the shelves. They were pushing 3G phones with a series 1 CPU and no FFC in stores next to high end 4G phones with all the accessories. Now all we have are these puny low res screens on underpowered phones! Shameful!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh yes and the incredible spec'd devices that were on windows mobile were blockbusters in the market
Microsoft again will lose money if this is all about a specs war, and specs weren't the reason why android was (and is) successful. It's a part, but not the complete package.
Android is diverse enough to reach several different price points to be pawned and given away for pennies. In America, that's important. The only one that feels the need to compare the specs is a bunch of idiots like you and me to see who has the bigger e credit
And I bet anyone on xda devs has done that once
But guess what? We're a growing population, but we are still a blip in comparison to the mass consumer. Go on, ask anyone if spec's matter. To many the answer is possibly, but when a person is selling a phone, they don't say
Hi this phone has a 1.5 gig dual core qhd screen.
They dumb it down to make it sound nice. If you speak techie 24x7 selling a phone, not many sales occur. Again, its about the casual customer.
That said, looking at the price points for android devices that are priced and have similar hardware to windows phone, windows phone does provide a far greater out of box experience. That matters, and it is a large reason why many ditched windows mobile and palm in favor for the iphone flavor in 2007.
Windows Phone has to be popular, and that is a key deterrent in both apple and android's success. This year is the year of getting Windows on equal footing with Android and apple in competitive pricing. Next year is popularity, and ironically, a lot of users will be looking to renew their contracts in America...that matters too
In other words
wait or use a different phone if you're after specs...It's what I used to tell my customers all the time
munkeyphyst said:
N8tr,
Weren't you the one upset in an older thread that "all the apps are mango" and you couldn't use them because mango wasn't officially released yet... And now your upset that not enough apps are mango...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about N8ter, but I complained before the official release, when Microsoft was pushing Mango updates into the marketplace, and their policy was that any app updated to Mango caused the NoDo version to be locked (no more updates allowed). We didn't know how long it would be until the official release, and we didn't know how many NoDo apps would be dead-ended in the interim.
But now Mango is officially out, and Microsoft has admitted that their policy was a bad idea and reversed it. So now everyone wins. People with Mango can get Mango apps, and people with NoDo can continue to receive updates (at least until their numbers are so few that it no longer makes sense).
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more, I think 16GB is plenty for almost all needs
MartyLK said:
I agree. Guess what's going to happen when iPhone 5 hits? Long lines and a sellout.
Guess what's going to happen when the second generation of WP7 phones hit? Short lines and overstock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
because of the fact that all the iNaives out there don't know better. people need to stop holding Microsoft to a higher standard than google and apple. the iOS5 betas so far have been unstable on the iPhone4 when compared to mango, also apple may not even release the iPhone 5 but more of a rehash of the iPhone 4,I've seen ur trolling on pocketnow over the mango update and u are just plain wrong, ur just mad because mango doesn't include ur precious Google- integration.
N8ter said:
The 4G phones coming to AT&T are 14.4 Mbps HSPA+ devices. The Galaxy S II on AT&T is a 21 Mbps device. T-Mobile's Galaxy S II is a 42 Mbps device, I doubt the Radar 4G will be above 14.4 unless they use an SoC we don't anticipate. The Price of the phones didn't have anything to do with the slow uptake of WP7 on release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and this matters how? at&t,tmobile and vz all have data caps, what good is 42mbps when u can't even use them without being slowed or overcharged?
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who are you to decide what screen size is good for me?
"IS NOT NECESSARY" - who gave you the right to decide what is necessary? Don't be a smartass