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Why the Lag !

I been using the iphone today.....what a smooth operator...everything just flows...the page animations the opening of applications...the look and feel, the way touch works. The typing (mind you Cooteks Touch and icontact is on par with it )very impressive...it even takes batter pictures than the cruise and its only got a 2meg camera...using my cruise everything is laggy....I cant wait for the drivers or update. If people like larna and others can do wonders to the speed of applications then what the hell are original developers and manufacturers doing. I say thank you for this forum...If HTC/Microsoft had been thorough as Apple was with the iphone the cruise/WM would be a different beast altogether.
I think Microsoft must be going through what Mercedes and BMW went through when the first Lexus model came out and caught them sleeping.
Nice phone the iphone but very limited when compared to ours....but things could change.

I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
I think a capacitive Display would help much. I'm often not sure if pressing a soft button worked. That makes working on it feeling laggy (beside slow program starts).
The WM developers have ignored any work on the UI for years. Now they got payback, the WM UI looks like an ugly Windows 95 UI and is totally outdated.
You can see that a smooth UI is possible by looking at pointui.
But do not forget the WM advantages.
All the availabe software, for example WMwifirouter.
That on iphone? I think it will never be...

Agreed....I can only fault Microsoft in Slow Deveopement....whereas the Manufacturers trying to make everyhing generic compatible instead of optimizing....now if they even aimed for the latter, no only would our devices be useably versatile, they would be decently fast and efficient.
We can only hope that WM7 will better developed for touch and hopefully not a memory hogger ...aka Vista.

On June 2008 the rumor say we will have a 3G Iphone + integrated GPS + open SDK. All for not more than $500 USD.
Nobody will touch the touch cruise with a stick at that point (unless the price will be reduced to $250, or something close). So I believe we're going to see new phones from HTC pretty soon.

This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.

This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).

Noam23 said:
With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).
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I hate to say it but I think he's right.
I can and only will speak for myself, even though that may be the case for everyone else as well; but I use a WM based device because of the software. While the iPhone is faster, better looking, smoother flowing...as of right now it is locked down and requires hacks just to browse the file system!!
TheOnly1 said:
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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If you are reffering to the current iPhone, i would have to say you are DEAD on. However, if the new one lives up to what people are saying about it (an SDK, gps, 3g),
Then apple would have successfully created something that achieves both outcomes: A cool device with a fast, smooth flowing UI WITH functionality and productivity.
remoh said:
I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
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Click to collapse
Actually, it is up to the OEMs, not microsoft, to optimize windows mobile for each of their devices. This is where HTC fails time after time in my mind.
Microsoft gives them every opportunity to implement things accelerated graphics, among other things. HTC does not do it!!
And then has the audacity to blame the customers for buying devices based on their chipsets instead of what is actually implemented (or NOT implemented -- LOL).
Since my last HTC purchase of the Touch Cruise, which cost me almost $900 I am extremely upset and dissapointed, not to mention disillusioned. The kaiser and the TC could have been great, but HTC did not want them to be -- they are slow, clunky, unresponsive at times, and i don't see why HTC even put a camera on them 'cause the pictures and video are better left not being captured at all.
If the new iphone lives up to it's promises, i see no reason to ever purchase, nor use another htc product ever again. That is the thing though...Apple is one of those companies I just do not trust and/or like....but just having the possibility of a device like the new iphone will keep my interest peaked!
If everything goes as planned, I believe that mobile developers will definately take advantage of the SDK.
While it will take many months for all the developers out there to create good applications, it will happen.
I'll actually go as far as saying that iPhone software will in fact exceed that of WM software in the future -- Provided that apple releases a decent sdk and does not place absurd restrictions on developers.
Think about it...how long have WM devices been out for...and what is their popularity?
Compare that to how long the iPhone has been out for, and it's popularity...
While currently they are for two completely different concepts;
one for user friendly every day usage, and one a "business" device...
apple seems to be combining both concepts into something that I would consider a "dream" device that I have been waiting for from HTC to put out for years now.
I thought that the TC would in fact be something closely resembling my "dream" device -- And after I actually used it and saw all of the problems with it first hand, I quickly recognized I was completly wrong.
Let's see if Apple can successfully accomplish what HTC has consistently set out to -- and subsequently failed to do so many times.
If they can pull this off, I will definately consider myself a proud iphone owner / user.

i have to admit the only reason i did not buy an iphone its because i did not want to switch to at&t and evryone where i work has one. i just wanted something different so i bought the touch cruise. i am regreting it even as i type. 700plus usd down the drain. when the new iphone is out this summer i am definitely getting one and switching to at&t

i wish i could get my hands on one of the htc developers. i would beat the life out of him. for real. i am mad and pissed. even the clone iphone, the hiphone which i saw with my own two eyes and held in my hands is better than touch cruise. its only 200usd

There are a lot of Touch user using WM device not having too many complaint. I like UI and build of iPhone, but I never forget the experience what smart phone of Nokia and Sony Ericsson running in Symbian. People will just imagine what Apple will enhance the iPhone and offer what we have used in WM device. Just like people asking why manufacturer not offering VGA device. Why don't have a look of the delay of Sony Ericsson X1? Keep an eye on what Apple implement the SDK into their iPhone and software developer introduce program, and to compare what we have with WM device. Looking forward to have a device running in X OS with VGA display with weeks of power with plenty choice of softwares .... and lastly without lag. Just like years ago we are looking for a VGA WM device. Manufacturer like HTC will make such device if it can.

Are you guys serious about the Touch Cruise camera being poor? It has one of the best cameras I've ever seen on a mobile, save for the lack of flash.
-3 Megapixels
-Autofocus
-Excellent macro mode (try taking a picture of anything close up (~3inches) with this vs. a normal camera under normal lighting...TC holds its own, or better yet take a picture of something close up and compare those results to those of an IPhone)
-Auto switch to night mode in poor lighting (remember camcorders with night mode also exhibit lag in night mode, but normal cameras don't lag as they don't use a night mode since they have a flash!)

I must agree with Sonus on the camera. I actually printed out some pictures I took with my TC and they were pretty much OK on paper.

i do believe the tc is a very good device with advantages and disadvantages same as the iphone.
the thing that annoys me most (also while writing this text) the input lags in the touch keyboard or other apps, e.g. switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.
the good things are:
100% customization
tons of apps - navigation, wlm etc
lastly, i have see the iphone hanging - it could not connect immediately to wifi

I'm positive Apple is not going to put HTC out of business on June 2008, when the 3G iphone is supposedly coming out.
HTC will definitely release formidable competition on fall 2008, probably the dream machines we always wanted to have. My only complaint is that the Touch Cruise / Kaiser have the hardware to be much of that "dream machine", but aren't so because HTC doesn't think it is necessary since these products are competitive enough as it is, in today's market.

I agree with the only1.
Just think of it in business terms, the iphone and touch cruise are aimed at different markets. HTC could probably produce a iphone type device but why should it. HTC devices are more business orientated and sold as such, they are not (imho) trying to compete with consumer based ideas and what looks sexy when playing music or videos. They are aimed at different markets.
If people want a device to look good show off pictures and videos and play music they buy a iphone, for gods sake its a ipod touch that makes calls, so no comparison.
If people want to do all of the above and have a device that can be used as a great business tool buy a touch cruise.
Okay there are some faults but they will probably be fixed on the next device but that too will have its shortcomings and we will give out **** about it and compare it to the newest goddam wonderful iphone, jphone, kphone or whatever with hdtv or can make coffee but thats life. I know we paid big money for what we have but for jaysus sake its "not ****en dark". i.e. you could see what your were buying.
Just my opinion.
A bit strong maybe but thats life.

I dont know what you guys have done to your devices to make the camera so good, but unless i am taking pictures outside when it is sunny out, it will NOT come out clearly at all -- it is very distorted and grainy, not to mention it slows down to a crawl! I have a sony cybershot 2.1 MP camera from 2002 that takes better pictures than a TC cam -- and it cost about 150$ 6 years ago. When its dark or indoors, the LCD on the cybershot doesn't slow down to 1-5 FPS.
Now people say that the TC is a business device and that's true.
But, I for one am sick of trading off functionality for performance on the business devices produced from HTC.
Why can't it be both at the same time?
Unfortuneately, I did go in the dark on this one. Before I bought the TC I didn't research the video driver problems.
I only looked at the specs, researched the chipset and thought I was getting something that would (at least) out perform my PPC-6700 that I purchased over 3 years ago. I was wrong. I don't think HTC will go out of business...not at all, but i DO think that alot of people are in a similar boat that I am in...betrayed by HTC and will continue to hold a grudge against them, and subsequently switch to someone who can provide something better in the future...hopefully, that can be Apple...but I definately have some doubts to say the least, considering what the current iPhone came out as -- a Media player with a phone on it.

PseudoReal said:
switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.i
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OMG, i have the SAME problem...it is the WORST!!
you have to tap the stupid triangle like 50 times just to get it to switch.
It's an atrocity. Devices from 3 years ago do not even have this problem.
Business device or not, this is just plain unacceptable.
Unless there is a fix for this problem, or I am doing something wrong and do not know about it?
How many ppl have similar experience?

I have that same problem. Takes multiple clicks and major lag to get the input keyboard to show up. The reason I have to chance keyboards is I often use Opera 9.5 and for some reason none of the Touch keypads work with it, so I have to switch them (I think that's another problem could be related to Opera still being beta). Also every once in awhile I can't get to the PocketCM keyboard and instead get the lame Windows default one. But that also is another problem.
Back to the lag, every once in awhile I will get lag here or there, e.g. will click on the task manager on the top right and not get anything, keep clicking around with no response. Then all of a sudden all the clicks take effect and I will see the task manager menu open and close in succession real quick.
All in all it's a good device, great functionality, just a few quirks here or there. Maybe it's time to hard-reset or flash a new ROM that might solve some of these things, who knows.

Oh forgot, as for the camera lag with the low FPS in low light conditions, check out this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=365345
HTH

thanks for that... the "trick" described in the first post does increase the response by 10 fps or so, but the thing is, the picture quality also goes down...its a lose/lose situation i guess lol...I also noticed that there is a new .dll fix on the HTC E-club, but only for the kaiser. I tried to login but it says theyre doing maintainance right now, so I can't check if there's anything released for the TC...even so I doubt there is
but my issue is, and always has been..why should i need to do all of these tricks and patches for a device that costs as much as the TC does? I shouldn't. No one should.
also another thing that came to my mind...people and HTC say this is a "business device"...so i was thinking, wouldn't business users want their devices to be MORE responsive than a media player / cool trendy "sexy" device?
I mean when you need to wait 5 seconds and tap the screen multiple times to play a music file, it's not really that big of a deal...it's an annoyance yes but it doesn't result in you losing work time..or a loss of productivity
but when you need to tap the X button 5 times to close out of a document and switch to your email...or taking notes and browsing web pages for work related stuff...or trying to switch between SIP's...and having to wait because the device lags worse than windows 95...it becomes a loss of productivity...
even if it's only seconds, those seconds add up, and the annoyances stock pile into one big ball of rage for me at least, heh.
I do admit that my own foolishness and quickness to buy a new device is partly to blame here. I should have looked into it more. But I also think that HTC holds a good part of the blame as well.
hopefully the geniuses here can come up with some good fast custom roms that will deal with these issues...i won't hold my breath waiting for this patch to come out from HTC at the end of the month. I'm doubtful that it will do anything at all.

Iphone 3G vs Polaris

I am a WM user for 4 years now. My first device was Magician, second one is Polaris and the next one will be Iphone 3G.
I love HTC, they make perfect phones and the price does not bother me, neither lack of video drivers does. I always admired all the latest technologies they include in their phones (3MP camera, 3G+HSDPA, GPS, etc..).
The only thing I don't like in HTC is ... MICROSOFT WINDOWS. I hate using stylus. It is absolutely not user-friendly.
Now, with HSDPA and GPS in Iphone I am willing to sell my polaris. Just after 5 months of using! I used my magician for 3 years before and thought I will keep my new one for another 3 years. But I give up now. I want to buy a brand new Iphone now. Never used apple products before (even Ipod).
So, my question is - do you guys know any forum similar to this one (technical), but related to Iphone stuff?
Thank you for answers and sorry for leaving you in advance.

I understand and do myself feel that we are being cheated, but i say you should search google with " iphone discussion forum" and that search will lead you rightto one, i have seen a few, i dont have an iphone,(i might get one when the video calling gps one comes out.) but i do browse to see what iphone users azre getting up to with there devices.
g oogle is your best friend.

Mate, don't do it. The new iPhone only has a 2 Meg pixel camera, and you'll be tied into some ghastly price plan for life. Wait for the Raphael, which is personally my Holy Grail of phones. Ah, a real keyboard. soooo yummy
I agree about Windows Mobile, it sucks. And the new HTC Flo nonsense looks rubbish aswell, but you know....
Apple announced NOTHING exciting (appart from MobileMe, where the HELL is windows contact/calendar over-the-air synching without Exchange????). But still they gave ir a huge launch. 3G and GPS - big deal!

or the new Samsung i900 Omnia http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i900_omnia-2422.php seems to be very interesting device. I propebly sell my polaris and buy a Iphone or this Samsung. In some way im to bored with the htc policy with their devices, first i have the Trinity and waited if htc could atleast make a wm6 update on trinity..but now way..then Polaris with this driver issue forexample. Polaris may be my last htc device. The only thing which is very good to have a Htc device is this forum or the hole xda developers www site

I'll wait and see what can Android bring out of my Polaris... I like the design of the polaris, and with Android it'll be better... and more finger friendly...

madinga said:
Wait for the Raphael, which is personally my Holy Grail of phones. Ah, a real keyboard. soooo yummy
...
Apple announced NOTHING exciting (appart from MobileMe, where the HELL is windows contact/calendar over-the-air synching without Exchange????). But still they gave ir a huge launch. 3G and GPS - big deal!
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I definitely would not say that the Raphael is the Holy Grail of phones. In fact it is far from it. The raphael is just a Kaiser with a flush screen and prettier touch flo. Big deal, nothing new.
Now I am a huge WinMo fan, but I can still say that the iPhone while it may not be a Holy Grail either, it is still the standard to which all high end phones are being held. It is far from perfect yes, but nonetheless it is the current standard. I'd venture to say that the majority of us that aren't switching b/c we are waiting for some little details in the form of functionality that we've enjoyed with our HTC phones. For some that may be 3G and GPS, for other such as myself 3rd party apps (VOIP!!!), and better bluetooth support (A2DP and tethering). For you that is clearly
windows contact/calendar over-the-air synching without Exchange
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Apple is getting closer and closer to closing in on its list of inadequacies with the iPhone, HTC on the other hand is not (and yes I realise that may be b/c they are tied down to WinMo 6.1).
I don't see any WinMo phone coming anywhere near where I or I would assume most of us want until Windows Mobile 7 is released. Windows Mobile 6 is just too slow, too small button oriented, too menu driven, and too lacking innovation (seriously, the UI is pretty much the same as its been ever since WinCE days back in 2000 or earlier).

well Raphael got vga over kaiser but then with smaller screens not everybody may notice
the thing that wm got going for it is lots of programs free ones and comercials ones
vs. iphone and android but with time it's not a good sleeping pillow for ms
kinda funny that while the pc world is unhappy with the current ms offering of vista
and want the next thing windows 7
pda owners are unhappy what wm6.1 can offer vs. the compatition so they want the next thing windows mobile 7
wonder if ms will release them at the same time :S :O

i love windows mobile and will not buy iphone. i was just in an att store today and the guy told me besides the phone being slash by half. u have to pay a huge fee to sign up for service. somewhere over $100. he said it would better serve u if u already had an iphone and wait for an upgrade rather than buying the new one.
as for htc. i am done with them. i wish i could find one of the developers and kick there ass. i am moving to another maker as soon as one catches my interest.

Yeah seriously WM6 is a dated wack ass looking piece of work. All this Touch Flo nonsense is just HTC trying to give their devices a fresher look. Otherwise you'd be staring at that boring ass Today screen that doesn't look good in the ads. Even Apple had to use a screenshot of WM in their keynote speech at WWDC '08 as a joke (how background apps run). This is in addition to the ActiveStink comment, which might be warranted, but I digress.
Point is, it does need to be seriously freshened up as an OS which is what WM7 is all about. However that's still a ways away. Plus barely any WM phones out there have gesture sensors or multi-touch screens anyway. Actually I don't know any that have both. 2 things the iPhone has had since last year. I am also curious as to what Android will bring to the Polaris, but I'm fed up with this dated WM6 OS (and lack of drivers).

omaga said:
or the new Samsung i900 Omnia http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i900_omnia-2422.php seems to be very interesting device. I propebly sell my polaris and buy a Iphone or this Samsung. In some way im to bored with the htc policy with their devices, first i have the Trinity and waited if htc could atleast make a wm6 update on trinity..but now way..then Polaris with this driver issue forexample. Polaris may be my last htc device. The only thing which is very good to have a Htc device is this forum or the hole xda developers www site
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Hey, what's the point? Omnia is just another WinMo ****! If you consider WinMo - Polaris is the best thing to buy! IMO.

yallow said:
Hey, what's the point? Omnia is just another WinMo ****! If you consider WinMo - Polaris is the best thing to buy! IMO.
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Yes ofcourse omnia is a wm phone. that wasnt my point. The point was how htc treads us comsumers, selling unfinnish products, you buy a expensive phone and things are missing in the phone which will be upgrade in the NEXT model. I like win mobiles no doubt about that and now im thinking Symbian vs Win. Sorry to say but did you read the Omnia spesifications at all? much better that Polaris?
Omnia kick ass with polaris from that point of view

Guys I have both the Orbit 2 and the first gen Iphone and both have there advantages.
However these are being eroded with Iphone 3G, namely GPS and 3G data access.
I have to admit the interface on the iphone is simply incredible, fast and accurate glass screen that does not scratch. it is an absolute joy to use.
is is intuitive at performing ANY function were the Orbit you have to think about what you are doing and then some. The interface on the Orbit is clumsy at best, whilst typing is a joke compared to the iphone, it's keyboard is a joy to use, I can type faster on it than I could achieve on my blackberry.
and to boot the build quality of the iphone is leagues ahead of the HTC product.
The facts are WM6.whatever is slow, cumbersome and needs the update now.
I will still use my Orbit2 as the PC modem function is superb but once the iphone 3G comes is released I would have to say it will get a lot less use.

Honestly. I was an huge fan of Symbian phones. Now the Polaris is my first WM device and I really like it. After a couple of customizations the device is "fingerfriendly" and I can't remember when I was using the stylus the last time.
But this is not the point. I prefer the Polaris all over the IPhone (3G) because...
... I like to change my battery on my own
... I like to send MMS
... I like to have at least an 3 MP camera on board
... I like to decide to customize the software on my own
... I like to decide who my operater of choice is
... and so on
and compare to the first IPhone the new one is build out of plastic, has still the same "features" and the "innovation" is nothing new.
I am waiting for the Raphael to exchange it with my Polaris. It gives me the freedom I used to have and the hardware features I prefer.

I can answer all those must haves apart from change battery as yes, just 'get an unlocked iphone' it gives you all those features.
Even the 2Mp camera on the iphone is comparable to the Orbit 2 3Mp.
However in the end everybody to their own.
Simply put IMO the Polaris is not finger friendly at all, the crappy plastic screen that scratches too easily is very un-responsive unless you use a stylus which defeats the object of having a touch screen phone.
I will admit the Polaris is a feature laden beast that has many strong points, but its operational method and UI cannot even come close to the Iphone, it is like comparing Mac OSX Leopard to Windows 95, the difference is that great.

mikee5402 said:
I can answer all those must haves apart from change battery as yes, just 'get an unlocked iphone' it gives you all those features.
Simply put IMO the Polaris is not finger friendly at all, the crappy plastic screen that scratches too easily is very un-responsive unless you use a stylus which defeats the object of having a touch screen phone.
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I can give you a much bigger list of things that you probably can't do even with a jailbroken iphone.
As for a screen that scratches, are you using a protector on there? Shouldn't be getting any scratches. I've heard others that don't use a screen protector and say they aren't getting any scratches either but i'm not willing to take the risk.

i dont really like the iphone's interface.. is.. bored.. maybe with a lot of graphic effects but is just VERY SIMPLE.. many programs for windows mobile can emulate that.. but iphone will never do what windows mobile does..
ORGANIZE..
because is not the same to have a folder for each thing than use a scrollable screen for all..

you should realize once and for all that there are different perfect phones for different people.
i love my polaris.. because it's a small, light device, with GPS and 3G ability.. which i will start using soon.
while other people prefer bigger screens they can buy 3.5inch screens.. i can't stand it.. but the iPhone 3G is good for them.
while i like having a modular operation system.. even tho windows mobile is not perfect, other people love having everything built in, such as in the iPhone. some other people don't mind about GPS.. .. i do.
but there isn't one best phone.. there are a few... depending on the needs of every individual.

What about the Sony Ericsson Experia X1. At first glance, I think it's more powerfull than the Iphone 3G, HTC Diamond (and variants), and the TC. It's WM based, 800x408 resolution, small, light, and works in the US.
yallow said:
I am a WM user for 4 years now. My first device was Magician, second one is Polaris and the next one will be Iphone 3G.
I love HTC, they make perfect phones and the price does not bother me, neither lack of video drivers does. I always admired all the latest technologies they include in their phones (3MP camera, 3G+HSDPA, GPS, etc..).
The only thing I don't like in HTC is ... MICROSOFT WINDOWS. I hate using stylus. It is absolutely not user-friendly.
Now, with HSDPA and GPS in Iphone I am willing to sell my polaris. Just after 5 months of using! I used my magician for 3 years before and thought I will keep my new one for another 3 years. But I give up now. I want to buy a brand new Iphone now. Never used apple products before (even Ipod).
So, my question is - do you guys know any forum similar to this one (technical), but related to Iphone stuff?
Thank you for answers and sorry for leaving you in advance.
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Click to collapse

Don't forget... it'll be made by HTC!
And biig display is worth nill if not supported by applications.
Except if your main goal is to have nice media reproductor combined with phone
Touch Pro looks like killer device ATM...

Bodisson said:
Don't forget... it'll be made by HTC!
And biig display is worth nill if not supported by applications.
Except if your main goal is to have nice media reproductor combined with phone
Touch Pro looks like killer device ATM...
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In general, I agree with you that higher resolution need to be supported by the apps. However, I've also go an Imate 6150, and I used to have an ETEN x800, and I can tell you that even though most of the apps didn't make the best use of the real estate, that the text was much more readable, colors were sharper, icons looked better, etc.
If it weren't for the crappy ROM that comes with the Imate, I would be using it now. And unfortunately, the hacker community for Imate devices isn't as developed as it is for HTC devices.
Of course the other downside to VGA (or higher) is higher power consumption.
Dave

Raphael vs. iPhone 3g

Ok, so I've been using an HTC for my last 3 phones and now have to decide if I want to go with the Raphael or the iPhone 3g. Anyone here with experience with both care to comment?

If you want a keyboard, higher res screen, multitasking, slingplayer, a wireless modem for your laptop, support from xda dev like me, then you have to get the raphael. Otherwise the iphone would be ok i suppose.

My personal opinion about the iPhone 3G is that i find it more of a gadget then a real poweruser phone.
I also like the fact that the Raphael has a keyboard and that's a must for myself.
Here's a comparison link from pdadb.net for some spec differences.
I say GO HTC!

Plus there's no Cut/Copy/Paste functionality and the only Bluetooth profiles it supports are headset and hands-free, so no file transfers or music streaming.
And you'll have to put up with poor 3G reception: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/13/iphone_not_very_3g/

kmann said:
Ok, so I've been using an HTC for my last 3 phones and now have to decide if I want to go with the Raphael or the iPhone 3g. Anyone here with experience with both care to comment?
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Sort of related to pros...
I had the Diamond for a week and sent it back as the battery life was useless. Also the device heated up a lot when in use. The last straw came when I was trying to use it on the beach and the screen was totally washed out.
I am currently trying out an iPhone, and I must admit it does most all of what I want (phone/email/web) and some more... and the screen is visible in bright sunlight! Just need to get over some missing things - and itunes. Oh, and O2 network (useless 3G - have to switch it off most of the time). Oh, and iplayer works fantastically... thats almost sold me now.
I still have my TyTn2 in case I need a MS6.1 fix, but as things are going, I doubt it.

WatskeBart said:
My personal opinion about the iPhone 3G is that i find it more of a gadget then a real poweruser phone.
I also like the fact that the Raphael has a keyboard and that's a must for myself.
Here's a comparison link from pdadb.net for some spec differences.
I say GO HTC!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with WatskeBart 100%. The iphone has impressive hardware with the exception of the lack of keyboard of course but it can't do all that a normal smartphone can do because of the software on the device. If all u want is a media player and internet browser then u should get an iphone 3g. If you are a phone techie then u will be disappointed all the way. Not to say that the touch pro can't be a media player. As i'm writing this email i'm listening to music on my touch pro and i was watching Hancock like 30 mins ago.

HTC for sure!!
I talk from personal experience as I had an iPhone 3g before selling it to buy my Touch Pro.
I had the original iPhone which i soon chopped in for an N95 8gb as it was too slow for net usage and the lack of apps was rubbish. I then got the upgrade to the 3g iPhone thinking this would be an amazing bit of kit due to 3g, GPS and the new App Store. After a week of owning it I was not impressed at all.
Firstly the 3g, its half speed of the HTC only 3.4 i think as opposed to 7.2mbs and even when it does get a 3g connection it times out constently. Then when the 3g connection drops it fails to switch to Edge or GPRS sometimes which means it will never connect.
The GPS is ok, although running google maps of both the accuracy on the TP is much better I found plus you cant put TomTom on the iPhone at present.
Then there is the app store, what a load of tosh. The apps that are free are free becos, well you wouldn't pay for them and to be honest I found I had a load of apps installed just becos you could not becos you wanted them.
I would say the only thing the iPhone does better is music and games, being an iPod it should be and the games you can buy do run very well although limted due to control system.
Another niggle i had with the iPhone is the new case, it scratches so easy and you always feel you have to treat it with cotten gloves. One day indoor use and i had hairline scratches on the apple logo
I sold my iPhone on ebay for a tidy sum and have had a week with the Touch Pro and am so glad i did it.
Plus if you geta WM you get help and support from all the peps on here, the iPhone community is no where near as good lol

2 things which bother me about iphones are
1. got a free rss program of itunestore for my ipod touch
and without copy paste one have to surf to the rss feed one wants
and write it down on a note open the rss program and write it there
silly that one cant copy paste
2. got a free ebook reader program but only way one can get ebooks is from www url's
no option to get all the ebooks on my computer into the ipod
so it's useless
suspect the lack of freedom with iphones / ipods
both consering accessing data from ones computer and
lack of SD data or even basic filesystem access
are one of their biggests problems

forgot tomtom, and a2dp. use that all the time too.... iphone cant do either.

HTC as the it can access parts of the internet the iphone carn't reach

Touch Pro rocks!
I personnally think the Touch Pro and iPhone are not / should not even in the same category at all:
- 2.8" screen for "pocketability" vs 3.5" screen for comfort
- Full qwerty keyboard vs no keyboard (granted, the on-screen keyboard on the iPhone is even better to use than PCM Keyboard on my VGA 4 inches-screened HX4700, mainly due to the capacitive touchscreen)
- On one side, the nerly endlessly extensible Windows mobile, can do anything, but you can't expect noobs to fiddle with the registry everyday and swap ROMs to have a better-working device
- On the other side, the iPhone platform is less open, but easier to use for nOobs, apps are easy to install, and (where the features are actually implemented) it just works
Surely there are other different points!
I myself just couldn't care to be ensconced in the iPhone, with clearly throttled-down features (no A2DP protocol for BT, no MMS, no video with the camera, no f#$..g copy-paste, for Krishna's sake? How hard can it be?).
My vote goes for the Touch Pro!
My 0.02$...

kmann said:
Ok, so I've been using an HTC for my last 3 phones and now have to decide if I want to go with the Raphael or the iPhone 3g. Anyone here with experience with both care to comment?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope that kmann could make his decision based on our replies

plain and simple........copy and paste........nuff said.
the iphone is just a glorified Ipod, the HTC phones are usable computers in your hand and much much more.

I would suggest that you take a look at the iphone thread on the macrumours forum. You get the views of a large number of iphone owners there. To my mind, they fall into 3 categories: On the fence types, fan boy types (for whom the iphone can do no wrong) and a substantial number of people who are having real problems with the iphone - not so much the things that are missing (cut and paste, a2dp etc.) but problems with doing basic phone stufff (like making calls) and build quality issues (cracks appearing in casings, bits falling off/ stopping working etc.).
I am not an iphone hater - I have an Ipod touch with the very latest firmware on - it is a great music player and some of the apps from the apple store are good fun - I have even bought a couple! I have also spent a couple hours playing with the latest iphone (a friends'), as a phone and a serious business tool, it just didn't cut it for me.

Ok, time to chime on again. Thanks all for your input. I've got 30 years of experience in deep IT technology. I've programmed Operating Systems, hardware etc. I've cooked my own ROMs for the HTC phones. And maybe I'm getting old and tired of fighting the hassles, but you've got to admit the iPhone is sexy, and simple.
Sure I understand the limitations, for example, I use push email and Calendar sync and I realize Apple has yet to fully implement the ActiveSync APIs which causes issues.
So I am in a quandry. Am I tired of fighting the custom ROMs and having the some extra features I rarely use, or do I want sexy and simplicity.
Ah, I guess we live in great times when these are the decisions I have to wrestle with.

kmann said:
Ok, time to chime on again. Thanks all for your input. I've got 30 years of experience in deep IT technology. I've programmed Operating Systems, hardware etc. I've cooked my own ROMs for the HTC phones. And maybe I'm getting old and tired of fighting the hassles, but you've got to admit the iPhone is sexy, and simple.
Sure I understand the limitations, for example, I use push email and Calendar sync and I realize Apple has yet to fully implement the ActiveSync APIs which causes issues.
So I am in a quandry. Am I tired of fighting the custom ROMs and having the some extra features I rarely use, or do I want sexy and simplicity.
Ah, I guess we live in great times when these are the decisions I have to wrestle with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i got sexy, simplicity as well as configurability. NOkia E71 (white steel). cant go wrong, 3.5G, BT, WIFI, GPS. all works as it should. IM using Garmint Mobile XT with Australia NT Maps 2009 without any issues, BT works like a charm, music player is fantastic, 8GB microsdhc card is fast.
dont know what else to say, im glad i bought this phone.

jasjamming said:
i got sexy, simplicity as well as configurability. NOkia E71 (white steel). cant go wrong, 3.5G, BT, WIFI, GPS. all works as it should. IM using Garmint Mobile XT with Australia NT Maps 2009 without any issues, BT works like a charm, music player is fantastic, 8GB microsdhc card is fast.
dont know what else to say, im glad i bought this phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, one of the top chefs of all time goes with the E71 (it is a badass device btw). Are you considering getting a touch pro and cooking for it or are you just chillin in the forums (hope its the former or your part of the elite project).

I will go for the Raphael because of this great forum here, but as far as I have compared these two phones in action I must say that at this moment the only advantage of the Raphael is the keyboard, if you really need one:
1. The screen resolution of the iphone is not VGA, but the screen size is bigger (3.5 against 2.8) and this is a big advantage. The screen quality is great and the keyboard is bigger because of the size, so for many people it is not a problem to type.
2. Programs start much faster on iphone. Yes, they do!
3. The OS is much more stable for the moment. Plus, iphone comes with a stable version of a web browser, not with a beta version of Opera (which I like, but still it is beta!).
4. The iphone is really easy to use.
Cheers,
Eriol

Eriol said:
I will go for the Raphael because of this great forum here, but as far as I have compared these two phones in action I must say that at this moment the only advantage of the Raphael is the keyboard, if you really need one:
1. The screen resolution of the iphone is not VGA, but the screen size is bigger (3.5 against 2.8) and this is a big advantage. The screen quality is great and the keyboard is bigger because of the size, so for many people it is not a problem to type.
2. Programs start much faster on iphone. Yes, they do!
3. The OS is much more stable for the moment. Plus, iphone comes with a stable version of a web browser, not with a beta version of Opera (which I like, but still it is beta!).
4. The iphone is really easy to use.
Cheers,
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also agree with Eriols arguments. The program starting part can be quick on HTC i think that depends on how your ROM is configured.

Eriol said:
I will go for the Raphael because of this great forum here, but as far as I have compared these two phones in action I must say that at this moment the only advantage of the Raphael is the keyboard, if you really need one:
1. The screen resolution of the iphone is not VGA, but the screen size is bigger (3.5 against 2.8) and this is a big advantage. The screen quality is great and the keyboard is bigger because of the size, so for many people it is not a problem to type.
2. Programs start much faster on iphone. Yes, they do!
3. The OS is much more stable for the moment. Plus, iphone comes with a stable version of a web browser, not with a beta version of Opera (which I like, but still it is beta!).
4. The iphone is really easy to use.
Cheers,
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that brings it back to what WatskeBart said earlier about the iphone being a gadget not a power house phone. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against the iphone i think the hardware is excellent for a second try but there need to be some tweaking. They should open up the software and do like google did for andriod offer 10k for the best iphone progs.

I'm getting tired and disappointed of WM

Ok, where to start? Well from the beginning of my short smartphone experience. My first phone was a Motorola A1000 with UIQ. The phone where not as good from the beginning but after some turns with the ROM cookers it became a pretty descent phone. It had GPS, a great app for mp3 (PowerMP3) and for that time an Opera webbrowser that worked on the most common sites.
Ofcourse the webbrowsing was slow and the GPS took ages to get a fix and the sound from PowerMP3 started to glitch when I had it in the background and did other stuff. But hey, I accepted it because it started to get old.
So, anyway. When the Xperia was annonced I found it as a great replacement. It was a smaler phone, it had full qwety, highres screen, wlan, gps, radio and finally 3.5mm jack. A friend had the first tytn phone (my first contact with XDA) that i thought was a bit slow. But still, it was an old phone and with the specs of the xperia I thought that WM would run smoth as butter.
Now, I have had the phone for 6 mounths and the honymone is over. Ofcourse the ROM cookers here have done an amazing job to speed it up. But still. Sometimes the phone is less responsive than my old UIQ phone. There is still no fully working webbrowser, the GPS does somtimes have problem to get a fix (not as long as 10 minutes though) and loading times eg. for showing pictures, open menues is the same as on my UIQ or worse.
I am getting tired of the chronic statment soon... the next version of Opera, when skyfire is ready, the next version of windows mobile, the next radio or ROM upgrade, the next version of manila etc.
And still, phones with weaker hardware is working smoth as silk with ROMs from the manufacturers like samsung, Apple or OS like Android. Why can't MS make an OS like that? It dosen't have to be "cool" as iPhone. But why not make it run smooth with less loadingtime?
As it is now, I can't lend my phone to a friend if he/she whan't to test it or browse a webpage without having them to wonder why nothing happens if they press this or that because of the loading times. "How could you pay that much for this phone?" And, no, I can't answer that anymore.
Ok, now I have let off some steam. And I havn't eaven mentioned the worthless casing on the phne that have cracked for the second time... ohh, now I have
Peace over and out

I wrote almost the same words today on a Dutch forum. I have my Xperia now for about 7 months. Out of the box it's a piece of sh.t. Thanks to the cooks it's an acceptable phone now, but my next phone will be no WM phone anymore. Thinking of buying the new Iphone when it comes out. Better/faster hardware doesn't say anything when WM is the OS.
Iphone here I come. If you can't beat them join them...

Although I do like my iPhone, I HATE apple. Going from my kaiser to the iPhone was a huge change. Mostly good, but putting up with apples bs is obnoxious. They are so restrictive. I miss the days of rom flashing, changing web browsers, media players, notes applications......just to try something new. With my iPhone, I can only change what apple approves, and that is very little. I am eagerly awaiting the Pre's release. Currently I pay AT&T 135.00 as month for two iPhones with the cheapest plan possible. We have the 1st gen iPhones with 20.00 a month data plans. I have no desire to pay 160.00 a month for the new iPhones when released. Two pre's with sprint will coat us 100.00 with my corporate discount.
I plan on checking out windows mobile again when wm7 is releases but not before then.
Jeff

take a break play with the iPhone and crapberry you'll be back within 4 months. Honestly, it took stupid applications like iBeer to make me want to go back to windows mobile. When I walk into work people with iPhones and BB's ask me why my Fuze or my Tilt looked more appealing than others they have seen. Simple answer, "I got no luck in the game of popularity therefore I spent over a year learning of the capabilities and the love what goes into windows mobile, outside of microsoft". Personally, I think they will never understand but when you show them easy written applications like "positions" and pdf reader "hustler" or "playboy" magazine, for some reason they believe you are a porn star, cause its that real...
edit: actually iPhones in Boston are played out so if you have a nice looking Tilt or Fuze it will get you ass. However, you may have to pay for an expensive hotel and some cheap ass beer too go along but that is how i roll. Nobody stops my floss.

Well, iPhone is no option for me. I like the modding that was possible with both my UIQ phone and WM. Android is what I now think will be the smoothest and more loadingtime free OS. I'm sad that it isn't possible to have android on my xperia. To me the xperia actually is the most good looking phone on the market today.

I could'nt say that my experience with winmo was bad. I had always enjoyed tweaking, ROM flashing, looking and exploring for new and better application software, trying out all kinds of different user interfaces, playing with registry, etc. I had always thought of winmo as the best thing since slice bread - until I tried out iPhone. To be honest, I had always brushed off iPhone as just a toy, as something that I would give up a week after owning it, etc. Had always been annoyed with people arguing that iPhone is better than winmo device.
Then, one day, an XDA-developer forumner whom I respected a lot made a post saying that he had already switched to iPhone and has never looked back. That was when I first took notice, and started to research more seriously about what iPhone could do. I thought all along that I would have to give up all the cherished applications on my Athena if I switch, so I first spent time finding out what applications are available on iPhone. At that time, I could not find any credible solution on GPS navigation and Office document editing. I also thought that I'm too addicted to my Tengo software keyboard to want to give up. In addition, I read a lot of posts saying there are serious 3G reception issues. So, based on that, I decided to buy a Touch HD instead.
I was estatic with Touch HD and made recommendation to a few person who too made the purchase. It was'nt perfect for sure. The response time was inconsistent at best, music playing stutters, album was slow and often causes freeze, camera capture taking too long to save and come back, picture is poor under poor lighting condition, etc. But I was still perfectly happy, perhaps because over the years, I had developed such a high tolerance for imperfection.
The iPhone purchase was probably an impulsive purchase because it was selling cheap. To be honest, the first day when I used it, I did'nt like it too much. Many things I did'nt know how to do. Did'nt like not being able to multitask, copy and paste, no video, no MMS, and the user interface looked set in concrete and unchangeable.
But then, I learned to jailbreak the phone. It was difficult in the begining because I did'nt know of a good forum to get help from, after all, I'm a winmo and XDA person, right? After that, I'm now really happy with iPhone.
- at the system level, my iPhone multitask, I can do global cut and copy, send MMS, do video recording, customise my springboard (desktop) to my heart's content, easily get music/movies without any restriction whatsoever .
-In general, my replacement application programs are far far better than the equivalent that I had on my HD.
- I can find lots of useful applications (don't listen to those who tell you that you only get iBeer and iFart from Applestore) from both the applestore and Cydia store. Many of those programs are simply not available on the winmo platform.
- VOIP calls that I make with my iPhone is far clearer than with my HD. No echo. No breaking up of voice. No need to use headset.
- All my videos play smoothly now. No more synchronization problem between video and voice. No more dropped frame.
- Camera captures really fast, including in poor light. It does'nt have autofocus and flash though, so this is still an area that iPhone should improve on. On the other hand, the camera softwares are excellent. You can change the contrast, exposure, and sharpen the picture after they're taken, and this compensate somewhat for the poor picture.
- I like the way it notifies me of any update to my applications, and they are all free. Even if I had previously installed and deleted an application, it tells me that I had already made the purchase (even the free ones are considered purchased) and would let me download it again free (even if now it is no longer free).
- Love the responsiveness. Even with very tiny area, such as the little link on XDA site that brings me to the first unread post, could be easily activated without zooming it.
- Consistent user interface is another really appealing aspect of it. On my HD, I had programs from Vito Technology, Resco, SPB, and they all look different. Some have full screen and have their own finger friendly keyboard, some still use stylus. Not a serious issue, but it was really good to have consistent UI.
What I still don't like about iPhone?
- I don't like the fact that I cannot change battery in the middle of the day. With my HD, I carry a spare battery because one isn't enough for me.
- We still have no credible GPS software on the iPhone, at least not outside US. In US, G-Map on iPhone looks like a pretty good GPS software that works without internet connection, but outside US, there is'nt any that can operate without internet connection. Even if there is, I am not willing to use anything not as good as TomTom 7, which among other things give me overspeeding, red light and speed camera warnings. I still use my HD to run TomTom, Garmin and Mapking (because TomTom does not have maps in all the countries that I visit).
I had been keeping an eye on Palm Pre and Google Phone. Google phone could be manufactured by any hardware manufacturer so in that aspect it has a better chance of becoming popular amoung the hardware suppliers at least, unlike iPhone which nobody else are allowed to manufacture. However, the applications on both Google Phone and Palm Pre are too limited at the moment. Also, because of the absence of control and openness, I think the user interface on google phone is going to varry greatly from application to application, so you will not have the same consistency as iPhone application. Palm pre's inabiilty to operate as a world phone bugs me, in addition to the fact that it is still the first generation phone, which is bound to have much unresolved issues.
WM7 is of course not to be discounted completely. It is supposed to be revolutionary. Like using the camera to detect your hand gesture (wonder what it is like to operate the device in the dark and impact on battery though. Also wondering how would devices without front camera deal with it.). However, application development would have much to catch up. The biggest obstacle I think is the fact that MS tries to make the OS backward compatible. There are just too many different hardware out there by now. Pity the developers on winmo now. If they develop anything now, it would have to be redone when WM7 is available. I get the feeling that many are developing for iPhone for now, hence the explosion of software availability there.
I hope this thread is a place to share information, not to bash winmo in anyway. So, let's be courteous to each other and refrain from putting down winmo platform.

Paitor said:
Well, iPhone is no option for me. I like the modding that was possible with both my UIQ phone and WM. Android is what I now think will be the smoothest and more loadingtime free OS. I'm sad that it isn't possible to have android on my xperia. To me the xperia actually is the most good looking phone on the market today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can do lots of modding with iPhone too, and much of those modding are not available with WM. You can even make it look like a PC if you so incline. But you must jailbreak it first in order to do it.

redbandana said:
take a break play with the iPhone and crapberry you'll be back within 4 months. Honestly, it took stupid applications like iBeer to make me want to go back to windows mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me, the more time I spend with iPhone, the more I grow to like it. It is amazing to find how customizable the phone is. It is also amazing to find that one single button in iPhone could so easily let you switch between active tasks, terminate program, launch most recently used programs, and with the power button do screen capture, do soft reset, etc.
Not all applications are entertainment in nature. You can get serious medical applications, enterprise resource planning type applications (including SAP and Quickbook), office productivity applications (Pocket Informant on iPhone is far more useable than the winmo version), etc.
The only really lacking area is GPS software, but that's likely to change with firmware 3.0 that removes the artificial restriction apple set.
Otherwise, WM applications are falling behind that for iPhone. There are many reasons why this is happening. Some winmo developers have discussed the reasons for this on this very interesting thread here:
http://www.4winmobile.com/forums/ed...s-mobile-apps-falling-behind-iphone-ones.html

jeffla said:
Although I do like my iPhone, I HATE apple. Going from my kaiser to the iPhone was a huge change. Mostly good, but putting up with apples bs is obnoxious. They are so restrictive. I miss the days of rom flashing, changing web browsers, media players, notes applications......just to try something new. With my iPhone, I can only change what apple approves, and that is very little. I am eagerly awaiting the Pre's release. Currently I pay AT&T 135.00 as month for two iPhones with the cheapest plan possible. We have the 1st gen iPhones with 20.00 a month data plans. I have no desire to pay 160.00 a month for the new iPhones when released. Two pre's with sprint will coat us 100.00 with my corporate discount.
I plan on checking out windows mobile again when wm7 is releases but not before then.
Jeff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I too feel that Apple is going overboard in the type of restriction it places. That's why I jailbreak my phone, to free myself from all the restrictions.

This is an article related to the current thread that makes some interesting reading.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-18438_7-10151228-82.html

Great essay you did there Eaglesteve. I know some things about jailbreak and what comes with that because of a friend that have one. But to me, the hardware limits on iPhone is to big. The important things too me that iPhone lack is, qwerty, MicroSD-slot, changeable battery, radio (I'm lazy sometimes), photo led (great as flashlight) and a good GPS.

eaglesteve said:
I too feel that Apple is going overboard in the type of restriction it places. That's why I jailbreak my phone, to free myself from all the restrictions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, if I jailbreak, can I drag and drop my music files? I hate having to sync my music files via itunes, or Media Monkey. I just want to drag a few songs over before work and just be done with it.

jeffla said:
Hey, if I jailbreak, can I drag and drop my music files? I hate having to sync my music files via itunes, or Media Monkey. I just want to drag a few songs over before work and just be done with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you can. You can also name the music file anyway you want rather than having it renamed by ITune. The music file could be copied to your own sub directory.

Paitor said:
Great essay you did there Eaglesteve. I know some things about jailbreak and what comes with that because of a friend that have one. But to me, the hardware limits on iPhone is to big. The important things too me that iPhone lack is, qwerty, MicroSD-slot, changeable battery, radio (I'm lazy sometimes), photo led (great as flashlight) and a good GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Paitor,
One factor that puts iPhone on the negative light is the fact that no hardware vendor other than apple through Foxconn is allowed to make the handset. This is both good and bad. Applications are easier to test and bugs more easily fixed. Also, having just one company controlling it nobody could pass the bug to another company if the graphic accelerator does'nt work (wink wink). You also don't have the risk of undersized hardware specification and slow device. On the other hand you don't get lots of choices in handware specifications such as those you've outlined.
Actually iPhone hardware contains the FM receiver all along, but disabled at the moment.
I believe Tom Tom will soon be available once OS 3.0 is released.

HTC/WinMo manufacturers stiffing users?

Hi,
I was looking at the iSuppli figures for the new iPhone 3GS and the Pal Pre and looking at the specifications of those phones it seems like they heavily outweigh even newer devices like touch pro 2 which cost like 30% or more. The Pre and the 3GS have
Much better application processors. ARM Cortex 8 approximately 50-70% faster than the ones in omnia
Separate Applications and Base Band Processors
Capacitive touch screens
16 Million color screens
Higher capacity and quality NAND memory
Considering that these manufacturers are also including costs of R&D for their OS in the phone price as well while manufacturers like HTC, Samsung and Acer just build shells for Windows Mobile which should be a lot cheaper how are the higher prices justified?
Another thing, people from HTC have been complaining for some time now that an 18bit color more would be too much of a hit/not possible in Winmo and are still sticking to 16bit while with the upcoming Omnia pro and Omnia II Samsung is using 24bit and 18bit respectively. The only thing better about Winmo device screens is the higher resolution.
The only thing besides hardware for Windows phone manufacturers is case design and shell development. Do you think that undercutting quality of parts without much justification is ok? I would like to hear what long time users think of it.
PS: Got 3GS and Pre information from http://www.cellular-news.com/story/37945.php
Constructive comments please
Thanks

[QUOTE Do you think that undercutting quality of parts without much justification is ok? [/QUOTE]
I don´t think it´s ok.
I decided to stay in HTC line devices for one great reason that makes the diference: XDA-DEVS!!!!
Without this great site I might turn my interest on Toshiba new devices, even with WM.
I don´t have any good comment respect the others OS...
Perhaps Android in a mid-future term...

They ask as much as possible for a device. Actually that's the reason I'd never really buy the rhodium. HTC always releases devices with a little flaw they fix in the next device (but make a new flaw, like FM radio in rhodium). What we need isn't that much: (F)WVGA, Tegra/Snapdragon/OMAP, 5-8 megapixel camera WITH flash and such others. I hope that Acer F1 is going to rock so I can buy my next device

HTC is a joke. They can only blame themselves and their lousy hardware / drivers for iPhone's being a huge success.

Just heard today the the new iphonie 3gs sold a million units already
Hope HTC gets there sh#t together soon...

to be honest, the only reason i buy htc/winmo devices is this site....and the fact i can get tomtom on it
but now i see tomtom is on the iphone, having used an iphone this week, i can say there are things il ike about it, but its a bit to dumbed down for me i feel, but then, it does just work, and the touchscreen seems to work much better than any htc device i've used
i seriously miss having a flashlight, i mean camera flash on my phone, my old samsung d500 was brilliant in the dark, also miss having a camera that doesn't have wierd blue on it all the time no matter how much i seem to fiddle with it

galaxys said:
Just heard today the the new iphonie 3gs sold a million units already
Hope HTC gets there sh#t together soon...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, the iPhone is ****ingly well done... I have tons of WinMo devices but, for most tasks, I use my iPhone 3G. It's, hardware-wise, so much better than those lame resistive screen-based HTC craps...
And yes, as soon as the 3G S arrives here (in July), I'll be among the first to purchase it. I love gaming on these things.

true. i am tired of defending htc with my friends who have iphone. even the new palm pre which i tested today is so sweet. the screen jumps at u. i loved it
when my contract is up next month i am so buying an iphone.
the only reason i stayed so long is XDA and the tweaking i could do. kept me interested but now i dnt have time to be tweaking.
i want a phone that works and does what it needs to do without constant resetting and tweaks from XDA

I believe HTC made the best financial choice for this year. Due to Economical situation they know there will less demand on high end devices. Therefore they have not risk any high R&D and expensive parts. They choose already existing platforms and just add few more spec. I believe that is the best way to keep their profit margins!!!! The sad thing is they do have still advantage over the other hardware manufacturers which makes them too confident.
Beside from the Hardware issues on the WinMO I believe it is the OS that keeps all Hardware manufacturer and also Software makers struggle. Window Mobile OS clearly out aged but Microsoft is not fast enough to come up with something NEW and BETTER. Be frank WinMo 6.5 is just a joke. It has no major changes. Win 7 has delayed few times and besides no one knows what going to come out from that development.
Clearly if MS and HTC continue in such way they sure will be losing huge market which we already started to see!!!!!
I know..many WinMo supporters will say compare to WinMo..Iphone can’t do this... Iphone can’t do that. The fact is that 90% consumer that buy a device for 500-900USD don’t wanted spend their entire time to tweak and modify a expensive device to function a bit better!!! Beside most of those are not technical and therefore the learning curve to handle WinMo is much much longer.
I believe as a long term user of WinMo we become use to the limitation of MS OS and hardware so that we already see those as normal. But I do trust that many of us forget that WE PAYING REALLY 500-900 USD for piece of CRAP!!!
We just NEED to see the falling prices of Notebooks and Netbooks then we know how much we over paying for our HTC devices.

"HTC is a joke. They can only blame themselves and their lousy hardware / drivers for iPhone's being a huge success."
Infuckingdeed.

Menneisyys said:
HTC is a joke. They can only blame themselves and their lousy hardware / drivers for iPhone's being a huge success.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was scared that XDA-Devs is a fanboy site, with no rational thinking allowed. Glad to see this isn't the case.
Let's call a spade is a spade - HTC has ridden way too long on the coattails of cheap design, cheap QVGA screens and crap hardware with no or poor drivers, selling for $649 unlocked.