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As June 9th is just around the corner, I am just curious who will switch over to the new 3G iPhone? This maybe the wrong place to ask since everyone is a WM user including myself, very happy with my Trinity, but just really curious as to what it will take for you to switch to the new iPhone. I used the current iPhone for just over a month and I must say that Safari, the screen, and the user interface is unmatched atm. It did lack many things but with the SDK launching it could be a whole new world. Just curious what your thoughts are...and just incase you are curious my iPhone was a lemon (long story) so it just heated up and broke. Since I unlocked it myself the warranty was voided.
Depends on whether it'll be able to record calls. If it can, I may dump my current HTC Oxygen (one of the VERY few HTC models to support recording) and switch to the iPhone,
no
maybe if i can handwrite on it
Another no here.
WM is more versatile for me, that and I dont like the dumbed down approach that Apple takes on all of its devices.
Also with the X1 around the corner, I don't think I'll be making the switch any time soon.
No Way! WM rules!
But, let us know how it works out for u after a few months?
galaxys said:
No Way! WM rules!
But, let us know how it works out for u after a few months?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will need GPS for me to get it, and I don't want something that half the world may have...
It will probably be the Raphael or the X1 for me.
dumbed-down is a little unfair. The approach of the Iphone is to make things simple so that everyone can enjoy it. I'm used to Winmo and I'm used to Symbian but there is a definite draw to the Iphone's sleek, intuitive and WELL THOUGHT OUT system. What's WRONG with simple if all the functionality is there? Would you not take all the features of Winmo if they were put into a simpler package? Or is it better to have everything bogged down in menus?
Granted it's not there yet, but with external GPS support at least the Iphone could become serious competition - people aren't apeing its ideas for nothing.
The SDK release has seen a huge surge in development for the Iphone: it has to be seen to be believed.
I may get an Iphone; I probably won't but it crosses my mind occasionally. At the very least the introduction of the Iphone has made Windows Mobile users' experience a HELL OF A LOT BETTER as Opera 9.5 and Iphone-mimicing systems such as Touchflo prove.
I'm a proud WM owner here however I do own the first iPhone (don't use it much) and I propably will buy the iPhone 2.0 but I doubt I will use it as a primary phone. I'm a bit of a gadget freak and like to handle the devices myself rather then read about them but with all the things I can do with the WM devices I doubt I will switch to the iPhone.
I'm too dependent on 3rd party apps as references, so NO I won't switch at the moment.
...
Lol! Great poll! WinMo all the way for me!
I'll keep my device and continue to trump the iPhone users with my device, even if it is upgraded, I'll just upgrade more!
GPS was one of my "must have" for a phone and if the 2nd Gen iPhone has it, it will definitely be worth looking at. It took a very long time for WM to get GPS to be pretty much standard and if it only took Apple one year to put GPS on then they are really listening to the average consumers. IMHO I highly doubt there will be built in GPS or A2DP. Only time will tell.
I once thought that if iPhone has GPS, if it has ability to take in spare battery, if it has a slot for microSDHC, if it has 7.2Mb/s download speed, then I would definitely switch over. But then I think again, and said, no, I still won't.
The first reason is I have so many very attractive third party software that would only run on win mo platform and not iPhone platform.
The second reason is that some of the winmo phone are already having close to iPhone user interface anyway. HTC diamond, HTC Raphael, Sony Xperia X1, just to name a few.
The third reason is that I'm a person who get bored with the same phone very quickly, no matter how complete it is, how user friendly it is, and how slick it is. I just need to change the way it looks and feel every now and then without actually changing the phone itself. Winmo is the only platform that lets me do this. I change ROM, I change what gets shown on the today screen, I change the resolution (96 to 128, to 192), giving me a feeling that it is a completely new phone every now and then. I keep swaping in and out my weather program, my youtube player, my file explorer. I spend considerable of my freetime looking for better and newer third party applications, and this hobby is additive almost. If I switch to iPhone, I guess I'd be happy with it only for a few days, and then it'd be just boredom after that.
In some ways iPhone is ahead of the pack, but it is way way behind in many other respect and is playing a catch up game. Sorry, but this is true. It is understandable because it is still new in this field.
I wont upgrade to iphone as I dont like apples 'Locked Down' approach to everything... if they want more dominance then they need to open it up... not just by offering applications through itunes.
I'd need full synchronization with MS Offce, similar to what you get from Activesync before considering iphone.
No, not at all. Until Apple realise that "youtube" isn't important enough to warrant its own menu icon then their devices won't appeal to me! I like the versitality of Windows Mobile devices
eaglesteve said:
If I switch to iPhone, I guess I'd be happy with it only for a few days, and then it'd be just boredom after that.
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Click to collapse
You hit it on the head right there, my friend. I get bored and change things up constantly...I don't know if I could handle being stuck with the same screens forever.
For my work (techy for large manufacturing corp.) I have both an iPhone (beta 2 firmware) and Treo 750 (wm6 to 6.1 depending on how I feel that day/week) and while the iPhone does some multimedia stuff better, but from a total end-user experience the Treo is a much better device. I however, have to believe that the next "true" incarnation of the iPhone (this 3g release not being it) will be much closer to the "desktop" experience. When they do "open" the device to end user customization (i.e. installing apps, fine tuning device behavior) in addition to adding basic functionality (e.g. cut and paste) and continued in-roads to exchange they will then have a product to compete against. I will give Apple the nod that they certainly raised the bar with this 1st attempt - look at all the threads here trying to duplicate the home page and all the advances in the touch ui that have since taken place. Granted this may have eventually come about, but the iPhone has to be given credit for "encouraging" more fervent development.
But since that is just a "hunch" right now, I will only hope my employer gives me the 3g upgrade just so I don't have to suffer through edge any longer. But really am looking forward to seeing the Diamond and/or Raphael in the states. What I have seen of the UI is just brilliant and looks to have raised the bar I earlier mentioned a couple of notches higher still.
Cheers!
sure, iPhone is an eye candy, but other than that. It is really a flashy toy to lug around. For functionality, I would stick with either Diamond or Sonyericsson X1.
ir the iphone had third party applications allowing a wider margin of customization, gps, tv.............. maybe id get it as a plaything or a pet for my Sprint Touch lol but not my main phone fo sho, it looks nice and flashy but thats the case, its designed for dumb pple that dont know much about modern functuality in a phone and lets themselves be seduced of the looks and flashy interface leading them to believe that its Gods phone lol, makes me laugh... anyway id admit that i might get it but not as my main phone
think i will be getting it will still use WM tho i'll have both i just liek the way the iphone looks and feels nice and sexy
Ok, where to start? Well from the beginning of my short smartphone experience. My first phone was a Motorola A1000 with UIQ. The phone where not as good from the beginning but after some turns with the ROM cookers it became a pretty descent phone. It had GPS, a great app for mp3 (PowerMP3) and for that time an Opera webbrowser that worked on the most common sites.
Ofcourse the webbrowsing was slow and the GPS took ages to get a fix and the sound from PowerMP3 started to glitch when I had it in the background and did other stuff. But hey, I accepted it because it started to get old.
So, anyway. When the Xperia was annonced I found it as a great replacement. It was a smaler phone, it had full qwety, highres screen, wlan, gps, radio and finally 3.5mm jack. A friend had the first tytn phone (my first contact with XDA) that i thought was a bit slow. But still, it was an old phone and with the specs of the xperia I thought that WM would run smoth as butter.
Now, I have had the phone for 6 mounths and the honymone is over. Ofcourse the ROM cookers here have done an amazing job to speed it up. But still. Sometimes the phone is less responsive than my old UIQ phone. There is still no fully working webbrowser, the GPS does somtimes have problem to get a fix (not as long as 10 minutes though) and loading times eg. for showing pictures, open menues is the same as on my UIQ or worse.
I am getting tired of the chronic statment soon... the next version of Opera, when skyfire is ready, the next version of windows mobile, the next radio or ROM upgrade, the next version of manila etc.
And still, phones with weaker hardware is working smoth as silk with ROMs from the manufacturers like samsung, Apple or OS like Android. Why can't MS make an OS like that? It dosen't have to be "cool" as iPhone. But why not make it run smooth with less loadingtime?
As it is now, I can't lend my phone to a friend if he/she whan't to test it or browse a webpage without having them to wonder why nothing happens if they press this or that because of the loading times. "How could you pay that much for this phone?" And, no, I can't answer that anymore.
Ok, now I have let off some steam. And I havn't eaven mentioned the worthless casing on the phne that have cracked for the second time... ohh, now I have
Peace over and out
I wrote almost the same words today on a Dutch forum. I have my Xperia now for about 7 months. Out of the box it's a piece of sh.t. Thanks to the cooks it's an acceptable phone now, but my next phone will be no WM phone anymore. Thinking of buying the new Iphone when it comes out. Better/faster hardware doesn't say anything when WM is the OS.
Iphone here I come. If you can't beat them join them...
Although I do like my iPhone, I HATE apple. Going from my kaiser to the iPhone was a huge change. Mostly good, but putting up with apples bs is obnoxious. They are so restrictive. I miss the days of rom flashing, changing web browsers, media players, notes applications......just to try something new. With my iPhone, I can only change what apple approves, and that is very little. I am eagerly awaiting the Pre's release. Currently I pay AT&T 135.00 as month for two iPhones with the cheapest plan possible. We have the 1st gen iPhones with 20.00 a month data plans. I have no desire to pay 160.00 a month for the new iPhones when released. Two pre's with sprint will coat us 100.00 with my corporate discount.
I plan on checking out windows mobile again when wm7 is releases but not before then.
Jeff
take a break play with the iPhone and crapberry you'll be back within 4 months. Honestly, it took stupid applications like iBeer to make me want to go back to windows mobile. When I walk into work people with iPhones and BB's ask me why my Fuze or my Tilt looked more appealing than others they have seen. Simple answer, "I got no luck in the game of popularity therefore I spent over a year learning of the capabilities and the love what goes into windows mobile, outside of microsoft". Personally, I think they will never understand but when you show them easy written applications like "positions" and pdf reader "hustler" or "playboy" magazine, for some reason they believe you are a porn star, cause its that real...
edit: actually iPhones in Boston are played out so if you have a nice looking Tilt or Fuze it will get you ass. However, you may have to pay for an expensive hotel and some cheap ass beer too go along but that is how i roll. Nobody stops my floss.
Well, iPhone is no option for me. I like the modding that was possible with both my UIQ phone and WM. Android is what I now think will be the smoothest and more loadingtime free OS. I'm sad that it isn't possible to have android on my xperia. To me the xperia actually is the most good looking phone on the market today.
I could'nt say that my experience with winmo was bad. I had always enjoyed tweaking, ROM flashing, looking and exploring for new and better application software, trying out all kinds of different user interfaces, playing with registry, etc. I had always thought of winmo as the best thing since slice bread - until I tried out iPhone. To be honest, I had always brushed off iPhone as just a toy, as something that I would give up a week after owning it, etc. Had always been annoyed with people arguing that iPhone is better than winmo device.
Then, one day, an XDA-developer forumner whom I respected a lot made a post saying that he had already switched to iPhone and has never looked back. That was when I first took notice, and started to research more seriously about what iPhone could do. I thought all along that I would have to give up all the cherished applications on my Athena if I switch, so I first spent time finding out what applications are available on iPhone. At that time, I could not find any credible solution on GPS navigation and Office document editing. I also thought that I'm too addicted to my Tengo software keyboard to want to give up. In addition, I read a lot of posts saying there are serious 3G reception issues. So, based on that, I decided to buy a Touch HD instead.
I was estatic with Touch HD and made recommendation to a few person who too made the purchase. It was'nt perfect for sure. The response time was inconsistent at best, music playing stutters, album was slow and often causes freeze, camera capture taking too long to save and come back, picture is poor under poor lighting condition, etc. But I was still perfectly happy, perhaps because over the years, I had developed such a high tolerance for imperfection.
The iPhone purchase was probably an impulsive purchase because it was selling cheap. To be honest, the first day when I used it, I did'nt like it too much. Many things I did'nt know how to do. Did'nt like not being able to multitask, copy and paste, no video, no MMS, and the user interface looked set in concrete and unchangeable.
But then, I learned to jailbreak the phone. It was difficult in the begining because I did'nt know of a good forum to get help from, after all, I'm a winmo and XDA person, right? After that, I'm now really happy with iPhone.
- at the system level, my iPhone multitask, I can do global cut and copy, send MMS, do video recording, customise my springboard (desktop) to my heart's content, easily get music/movies without any restriction whatsoever .
-In general, my replacement application programs are far far better than the equivalent that I had on my HD.
- I can find lots of useful applications (don't listen to those who tell you that you only get iBeer and iFart from Applestore) from both the applestore and Cydia store. Many of those programs are simply not available on the winmo platform.
- VOIP calls that I make with my iPhone is far clearer than with my HD. No echo. No breaking up of voice. No need to use headset.
- All my videos play smoothly now. No more synchronization problem between video and voice. No more dropped frame.
- Camera captures really fast, including in poor light. It does'nt have autofocus and flash though, so this is still an area that iPhone should improve on. On the other hand, the camera softwares are excellent. You can change the contrast, exposure, and sharpen the picture after they're taken, and this compensate somewhat for the poor picture.
- I like the way it notifies me of any update to my applications, and they are all free. Even if I had previously installed and deleted an application, it tells me that I had already made the purchase (even the free ones are considered purchased) and would let me download it again free (even if now it is no longer free).
- Love the responsiveness. Even with very tiny area, such as the little link on XDA site that brings me to the first unread post, could be easily activated without zooming it.
- Consistent user interface is another really appealing aspect of it. On my HD, I had programs from Vito Technology, Resco, SPB, and they all look different. Some have full screen and have their own finger friendly keyboard, some still use stylus. Not a serious issue, but it was really good to have consistent UI.
What I still don't like about iPhone?
- I don't like the fact that I cannot change battery in the middle of the day. With my HD, I carry a spare battery because one isn't enough for me.
- We still have no credible GPS software on the iPhone, at least not outside US. In US, G-Map on iPhone looks like a pretty good GPS software that works without internet connection, but outside US, there is'nt any that can operate without internet connection. Even if there is, I am not willing to use anything not as good as TomTom 7, which among other things give me overspeeding, red light and speed camera warnings. I still use my HD to run TomTom, Garmin and Mapking (because TomTom does not have maps in all the countries that I visit).
I had been keeping an eye on Palm Pre and Google Phone. Google phone could be manufactured by any hardware manufacturer so in that aspect it has a better chance of becoming popular amoung the hardware suppliers at least, unlike iPhone which nobody else are allowed to manufacture. However, the applications on both Google Phone and Palm Pre are too limited at the moment. Also, because of the absence of control and openness, I think the user interface on google phone is going to varry greatly from application to application, so you will not have the same consistency as iPhone application. Palm pre's inabiilty to operate as a world phone bugs me, in addition to the fact that it is still the first generation phone, which is bound to have much unresolved issues.
WM7 is of course not to be discounted completely. It is supposed to be revolutionary. Like using the camera to detect your hand gesture (wonder what it is like to operate the device in the dark and impact on battery though. Also wondering how would devices without front camera deal with it.). However, application development would have much to catch up. The biggest obstacle I think is the fact that MS tries to make the OS backward compatible. There are just too many different hardware out there by now. Pity the developers on winmo now. If they develop anything now, it would have to be redone when WM7 is available. I get the feeling that many are developing for iPhone for now, hence the explosion of software availability there.
I hope this thread is a place to share information, not to bash winmo in anyway. So, let's be courteous to each other and refrain from putting down winmo platform.
Paitor said:
Well, iPhone is no option for me. I like the modding that was possible with both my UIQ phone and WM. Android is what I now think will be the smoothest and more loadingtime free OS. I'm sad that it isn't possible to have android on my xperia. To me the xperia actually is the most good looking phone on the market today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can do lots of modding with iPhone too, and much of those modding are not available with WM. You can even make it look like a PC if you so incline. But you must jailbreak it first in order to do it.
redbandana said:
take a break play with the iPhone and crapberry you'll be back within 4 months. Honestly, it took stupid applications like iBeer to make me want to go back to windows mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me, the more time I spend with iPhone, the more I grow to like it. It is amazing to find how customizable the phone is. It is also amazing to find that one single button in iPhone could so easily let you switch between active tasks, terminate program, launch most recently used programs, and with the power button do screen capture, do soft reset, etc.
Not all applications are entertainment in nature. You can get serious medical applications, enterprise resource planning type applications (including SAP and Quickbook), office productivity applications (Pocket Informant on iPhone is far more useable than the winmo version), etc.
The only really lacking area is GPS software, but that's likely to change with firmware 3.0 that removes the artificial restriction apple set.
Otherwise, WM applications are falling behind that for iPhone. There are many reasons why this is happening. Some winmo developers have discussed the reasons for this on this very interesting thread here:
http://www.4winmobile.com/forums/ed...s-mobile-apps-falling-behind-iphone-ones.html
jeffla said:
Although I do like my iPhone, I HATE apple. Going from my kaiser to the iPhone was a huge change. Mostly good, but putting up with apples bs is obnoxious. They are so restrictive. I miss the days of rom flashing, changing web browsers, media players, notes applications......just to try something new. With my iPhone, I can only change what apple approves, and that is very little. I am eagerly awaiting the Pre's release. Currently I pay AT&T 135.00 as month for two iPhones with the cheapest plan possible. We have the 1st gen iPhones with 20.00 a month data plans. I have no desire to pay 160.00 a month for the new iPhones when released. Two pre's with sprint will coat us 100.00 with my corporate discount.
I plan on checking out windows mobile again when wm7 is releases but not before then.
Jeff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I too feel that Apple is going overboard in the type of restriction it places. That's why I jailbreak my phone, to free myself from all the restrictions.
This is an article related to the current thread that makes some interesting reading.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-18438_7-10151228-82.html
Great essay you did there Eaglesteve. I know some things about jailbreak and what comes with that because of a friend that have one. But to me, the hardware limits on iPhone is to big. The important things too me that iPhone lack is, qwerty, MicroSD-slot, changeable battery, radio (I'm lazy sometimes), photo led (great as flashlight) and a good GPS.
eaglesteve said:
I too feel that Apple is going overboard in the type of restriction it places. That's why I jailbreak my phone, to free myself from all the restrictions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, if I jailbreak, can I drag and drop my music files? I hate having to sync my music files via itunes, or Media Monkey. I just want to drag a few songs over before work and just be done with it.
jeffla said:
Hey, if I jailbreak, can I drag and drop my music files? I hate having to sync my music files via itunes, or Media Monkey. I just want to drag a few songs over before work and just be done with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you can. You can also name the music file anyway you want rather than having it renamed by ITune. The music file could be copied to your own sub directory.
Paitor said:
Great essay you did there Eaglesteve. I know some things about jailbreak and what comes with that because of a friend that have one. But to me, the hardware limits on iPhone is to big. The important things too me that iPhone lack is, qwerty, MicroSD-slot, changeable battery, radio (I'm lazy sometimes), photo led (great as flashlight) and a good GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Paitor,
One factor that puts iPhone on the negative light is the fact that no hardware vendor other than apple through Foxconn is allowed to make the handset. This is both good and bad. Applications are easier to test and bugs more easily fixed. Also, having just one company controlling it nobody could pass the bug to another company if the graphic accelerator does'nt work (wink wink). You also don't have the risk of undersized hardware specification and slow device. On the other hand you don't get lots of choices in handware specifications such as those you've outlined.
Actually iPhone hardware contains the FM receiver all along, but disabled at the moment.
I believe Tom Tom will soon be available once OS 3.0 is released.
In the last days, I am thinking about the many features last devices have, and "poor" WM functions...
I had a Universal, then a Kaiser, and now a Raphael, and...I mean, big hardware development has been made, but, the SO is almost the same, and I do not think we are using the real potential of our devices, isn't it?!
I mean, we can read email, but what I would really want is to have ALL my emails with me in my PDA and in my Pc, to use more than one email account, but, the only way to have ALL our emails synced in our PDAs and PCs, is paying for an Exchange Server access, but, we can use only ONE Exchange server, so we have to switch to IMAP, but using IMAP means using third part software because the WM email client does not allow us to store sent email in the right IMAP server folder (which can change from server to server), and, if I use a third part software for email, I cannot use the latest HTC "people centric communication feature", I cannot use the latest TF3D2 mail page, etc...so have an advanced email system is not possible yet...correct me if I am wrong.
But I want go deeper. Most of the things we can do today with our devices (like surfing the net) it is almost not possible "on the go", it is very difficult reply an email while I am walking, or while I am driving, it is difficult read a post on this forum and replay here, it is difficult write a text message without using both hand for the stylus or with an hardware keyboard...I mean, doing things like these are easy if we are sitted down, with both hands free, and if I should be sitted down with both hands free, I also could use a laptop, or netbook, or something like that. MS has made Voice Command, but only in three languages....
What I am trying to say is that what we really need in our devices is a completely different approch, would be useful if I am in my car, I receive a text message or email, and my device can READ it for me , or if I have to write a text, I can dictate it to my device. I would like that my phone reads my RSS while I am driving, because it CPU can handle a job like this.
We have 500/600 Mhz CPU for doing what? Appreciate graphical game on TF3D2?! In the next month will be sold a new device with a 1Ghz CPU for doing what?! The same things we are doing today?!
And think about Android, a young operating system that is 2 years old that almost do the same things that our MS operating system does from 1999?! Why we are changing our devices? What has been offered to us to justify spending 500/600/700 USD or EUR for new devices?
What do you do with your phone? Send some email? trying to open 10 web pages per day? Manage a calendar? Use a navigation software? I almost could do the same things with a cheapear phone, I phone that I must not reset once a day!
Sorry for my post and for the bad English, but something is not very clear in my mind...Am I becoming crazy?!
My friend you are absolutelly right.
I have changed many phones and have used different operating systems and i can say that more or less they are all the same. So the phones are not so innovative as the hardware allows them to be. Maybe the programmers have something else in mind when they develop new user interfaces but that something is getting old... The most innovative thing i have seen in a handset is in one of nokia's "cheaper" phones the e-50 which can read your messages. It's small but it's something! plus you don't have to pay a month's sallary to get it right? I believe that the only reason for this stagnancy (i don't know if this is a word ) is that each company is hesitating to try something new just because people buy the devices as they are, which probably means they like them. So why change something???
I wish that people with ideas like yours were the ones making the OS. Things would be very different then.
I really liked your post it makes you wonder....
simply insane!!!
why are you make questions here like that?
well if you hate WM devices now... i can buy your Kaiser... sell it to me!
and buy an Iphone...
Lack of comparative discussion
What bothers me a little about the diatribe is that it doesn't account for the ways in which the OTHER mobile operating systems fall equally short. I don't believe that any other phone has shown itself to be measurably superior on any of the issues discussed. Don't peg it all on WM...
Don't get me wrong, there's really no excuse for the limitations of MS's own mobile OS when interacting with MS's Exchange technology.
Some have tried to fake voice control, and there's even a couple of apps that have been around for several years that make some minor steps in the right direction, but none of them function well enough to be considered 90% functional (which would seem to be the general expectation for consumer targeted devices).
The hardware improvements haven't gone completely to waste, depending on what you're using the phone for. Multimedia, Gaming, and even "Business Use" have gained from the improved hardware. New types of interaction are now possible thanks to g-sensors, lighting detection, better cameras, and proximity sensors. Sure, the full power of the hardware surely isn't realized yet (and considering how quickly the devices are replaced, I doubt it ever will be), but there's a lot happening and we're bound to see a lot more to come.
Don't forget, WM7 is likely to ship with "Tell Me", which is supposedly a pretty powerful update to the MS Voice Command technology and capable of controlling most major phone-related functions. The iPhone will certainly be copying/stealing somebody's voice technology (if not buying up a company outright). Android already has Google working on extended voice features, which will almost certainly translate into what you're asking for. In fact, every complaint mentioned is something that virtually every OS is working on adding in some form or another.
In my opinion, it's the battery and power efficiency that we need to see dramatically improve. The largest limit our phones have, which is why many features have never even been given to these phones, is that certain things drain too much power (like voice processing). If battery life improves, count on seeing a lot of these other features appearing in short order.
+ Que PPC said:
why are you make questions here like that?
well if you hate WM devices now... i can buy your Kaiser... sell it to me!
and buy an Iphone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simply because I would like to know what others users and developers think...I have to said to let our devices fly outside the window, or said something offensive...Our devices today are much more usefull than the stock version just because there is a community like this where people develop piece of software or port entire rom, and I very thank all of theme. Playing with our device is also a hobby, but i really believe that big companies like HTC and others, should do a better work on these devices for how much they cost. That's it.
speed_pour said:
What bothers me a little about the diatribe is that it doesn't account for the ways in which the OTHER mobile operating systems fall equally short. I don't believe that any other phone has shown itself to be measurably superior on any of the issues discussed. Don't peg it all on WM...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are partially right, I am not having other OS since 2004, I do not want to say the others are better, I say that if I pay my PDA 700 EUR against 350 for another phone that does "almost" the same things...I pay 700 EUR but I would like something more...stable, or more advanced.
speed_pour said:
The hardware improvements haven't gone completely to waste, depending on what you're using the phone for. Multimedia, Gaming, and even "Business Use" have gained from the improved hardware. New types of interaction are now possible thanks to g-sensors, lighting detection, better cameras, and proximity sensors. Sure, the full power of the hardware surely isn't realized yet (and considering how quickly the devices are replaced, I doubt it ever will be), but there's a lot happening and we're bound to see a lot more to come.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I partially agree with you, just to report some example, I left my Kaiser for my Raphael, and my Raphael has g-sensor, it also had the old HCT Album 2.5 which rotated pictures using the g-sensor, and this was a must using the TV-OUT cable, but now, with HTC Album 3, the g-sensor rotate features is gone...so when you see picture on the TV using the TV-OUT cable, you cannot rotate photos any more..why?! Or what about the latest TF3D2 with its calendar tab?! Yes, it is cool, but it require 10 seconds to show all the appointments on each month...while the old calendar app is fast. What I mean is that I feel that they do not make a "perfect" phone while they could, because nobody will buy another phone after, I feel like they always miss something, or left something not working (like the GD driver on Kaiser) so that people continue spending money buying new devices.
speed_pour said:
Don't forget, WM7 is likely to ship with "Tell Me", which is supposedly a pretty powerful update to the MS Voice Command technology and capable of controlling most major phone-related functions. The iPhone will certainly be copying/stealing somebody's voice technology (if not buying up a company outright). Android already has Google working on extended voice features, which will almost certainly translate into what you're asking for. In fact, every complaint mentioned is something that virtually every OS is working on adding in some form or another.
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I am anxious to see some "really" improvements on this side, but I also think that MS has waited to much for doing something...
speed_pour said:
In my opinion, it's the battery and power efficiency that we need to see dramatically improve. The largest limit our phones have, which is why many features have never even been given to these phones, is that certain things drain too much power (like voice processing). If battery life improves, count on seeing a lot of these other features appearing in short order.
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I totally agree with you
With the advent of iPhone (love or hate), and Android devices the broadcast media seem to be touting this technology as new, ignoring that us faithful WinMo users have been creating, downloading and using 'apps' and generally customising our phones for years.
I never hear of new releases for WinMo, but plenty about iPhone and increasingly Android - I'm thinking Spotify client and the new actual reality stuff where data is superimposed on the camera view; but there are many others.
I know there's loads of us out there, and we tend to look after ourselves, but the mainstream appears to be shunning the WM operating system.
I'd pay for a Spotify client, a WM version of Dynolicious, and I'm quite excited about actual reality, but I'm fast thinking WM is a dead technology.
So if we refute that, and laud the benefits of winmo.. will that reaffirm your belief in this mobile o/s?
Always dangerous letting others dictate whats relevant to your world.
66mustang said:
With the advent of iPhone (love or hate), and Android devices the broadcast media seem to be touting this technology as new, ignoring that us faithful WinMo users have been creating, downloading and using 'apps' and generally customising our phones for years.
I never hear of new releases for WinMo, but plenty about iPhone and increasingly Android - I'm thinking Spotify client and the new actual reality stuff where data is superimposed on the camera view; but there are many others.
I know there's loads of us out there, and we tend to look after ourselves, but the mainstream appears to be shunning the WM operating system.
I'd pay for a Spotify client, a WM version of Dynolicious, and I'm quite excited about actual reality, but I'm fast thinking WM is a dead technology.
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IMHO, the reason that you hear more regarding the other o/s's is that they are newer and have much less testing and use than winmo does, not to mention less apps as well as more more problems and issues! Each time a new version of winmo comes out, we have to deal with the same types of problems, but as it is a more developed platform, it does not take as long to work out the bugs.
A good example here is when MS created that p.o.s system known as Vista! It was JUNK! Then over time, it got a bit better, but MS finally got smart and gave up on fixing it's many issues and has now developed Win 7.
Later............
Phen0m said:
So if we refute that, and laud the benefits of winmo.. will that reaffirm your belief in this mobile o/s?
Always dangerous letting others dictate whats relevant to your world.
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Click to collapse
What a rediculous argument. I know WM is the best mobile OS, but then Betamax was the best video system.
I'm not talking about what's important for me, I'm talking about what people see as available - WM gets no mainstream media coverage, no-one goes into shops asking for it (just try going into an O2 shop or Carphone Warehouse and attempting to get an informed conversation from the sales staff about any WM device) and then we get a snowball effect where none of the 'killer' apps are being devloped for it - all efforts are being made towards the iPhone because it's sexy, WM is much better, more flexible, but ultimately nerdy (not that the general public even know it exists).
Maybe it'll remain as the business class mobile OS, which I'll be happy with as there's always the skilled people on here and similar sites to keep the software coming. Thanks guys.
I think one of the main reasons why WinMo is being left behind is because other people are intimidated by it. iPhone and Android are more user friendly with less things to worry about. Whenever I suggested a WinMo phone to my friends, they always say something along the lines of "I don't want to get stuck with a bunch of problems"
I will say, that it does take some kind of persistance and knowledge of how this OS works in order to be able to fiddle around with it. In the mean time, I guess android and iPhone are the "go-to" devices for people who want something easy to start with.
I honestly would never choose an iPhone, and I've never used an Android, so I wouldn't know how closely Android resembles WinMo.
theomni said:
I honestly would never choose an iPhone, and I've never used an Android, so I wouldn't know how closely Android resembles WinMo.
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While the iPhone 3GS is becoming what the iPhone should have been in the first place - I would never get an iPhone either for all the familiar reasons. The iPhone's main UI is an icon fest. I'd like to seem more information on the home screen. Also, the control freakery of Apple when it comes to what apps are allowed to run is unacceptable to me.
Android on the other hand is leaving WM completely behind. The HTC Hero is just amazing. It makes WinMo look very clunky indeed. You have the power, flexibilty and openness of the WM platform, with almost the polish and usability of the iPhone platform - but with multi-tasking.
What's worse is that this does not have to be the case. PointUI shows what's possible with existing WM technology but for some reason M$ hasn't gone there up to now.
I have not seen WM6.5 or WM7 yet so I can't comment on how they are addressing the issue in these new versions.
Android need a while longer to mature. But at this moment it seems like Android is the new windows mobile. Customizable, opensource, HTC, app store, its like the bastard step child of what would happen if the IPHONE and WINMO had a one night stand. That said, I don't feel like Winmo is being left behind. You only need to look at the Samsung who makes phones for everyone but the Omnia was its "THE PHONE" and it ran on windows. HTC will not abandon windows, look at the anticipation for TD2 TP2. Toshiba is getting into the fray. Nvidia will soon be throwing some love into windows (based upon the look of the Zune HD, we could be in for some fun). Lets be honest, the phone market is Winmo'd out. Every brand except Nokia is cranking out phones and its an oversaturated market. Which is why its hard for any particular brand to make a big splash unless they innovate, innovation will push this market foward. This is an exciting time to have windows.
However, i do believe the problem is this, hardware. Clearly Winmo is a huge system to carry. Simple things need to disappear..huge load times, massive lag. These things make our devices, no matter how current the software is, seem ancient. This is up to M$ to fix, and for developer (HTC) to start addressing by using proper hardware...I'm tired of having underpowered devices, I'm tired of key things missing, companies need to step up to the plate. I applaud Toshiba for loading the TG01 to the teeth with hardware, but am disappointed in them letting a 5 year old design their interface. Like it or love it....this is where we sit. I wouldn't trade it for any other OS.
I think you're right when you say that every man and his dog are knocking out winmo phones - how many X1 users are aware that behind their panels is WM? It's not a must have for the average punter, at least not like the iPhone, that is just lovely to look at, but that's where it ends for me. When their adverts brag that you can cut and paste - to me that's the measure of the device. I would have been gutted if I'd got one and found it wouldn't do the simplest of tasks - almost like making a Walkman with no headphone socket; pointless.
I've no experience of Android, so i can't comment, but it appears to be going where WM should be.
I just wish that the mainstream media were a little more informed about WM and it's benefits, not least the adaptability and flexibility and the years of experience that is available.
I'm stuck on Windows Mobile because it's the only platform with the functionality I demand.
Android shows promise, and it may even have a decent Office suite if someone's ported OpenOffice.org (to help me overcome the lack of SoftMaker Office), but I don't know if the multimedia format support will be as good as TCPMP on Windows Mobile, and I certainly don't know if it has a PIM suite worth dirt, let alone capable of standing up to the good old Pocket Informant + PocketBreeze combo (or, better yet, an Apple Newton MessagePad 2000/2100, which is actually still a better device than the new iPhones and iPod touches in some respects, especially if it's PIM and battery life).
I must admit, though, the Creative Zii Egg enticed me with its specs. It just fell flat by not having a hardware keyboard and only having a 480x320 screen when I'm used to 640x480 and want to move all the way up to 800x480. Then again, the other device I want-the Samsung Mondi-has only a microSDHC slot as opposed to a full-size SDHC slot and only 4 GB of internal storage instead of a whopping 32 GB. It also lacks multitouch, but at least the resistive digitizer permits a stylus with a fine point. Finally, it's 50 US$ more expensive than the Zii Egg.
(Also, you might notice something in common with those two devices: they are NOT phones. What happened to the non-phone Windows Mobile devices, ruggedized GETAC units aside? I mean, Apple has the iPod touch for those who want most of the iPhone experience, but don't want to be tied to AT&T and may not even care for the phone part. The Samsung Mondi was a surprising exception to that rule, though it veers close to phone territory with that WiMAX radio. Just wait 'til Clearwire gets some actual coverage, and Mondi owners are gonna Skype/Google Voice/VoIP it up...)
I believe Windows Mobile is being left behind in terms of processing speed of its applications. Sure they are releasing devices with powerful processors to cope up, but I believe the best solution is to redesign WM from within, so that even slow processors can handle humongous applications. Other than that...I don't think I have any other complaints against WM. That is why I have always been praying for more powerful devices.
Honestly, I think the truth is that WM6 is going to be dead in the near future. I expect WM7 to be a radical departure from previous versions, and I think we'll see a more powerful, more functional, more consumer-friendly ecosystem emerge. Unless, of course, it tanks.
WM6 isn't dead yet from a user standpoint and there IS new software being released, especially cool little user-made apps. For flashy commercial apps, though, I think it's largely a dead platform. Windows Mobile was developed as an OS for executives and tech geeks, not mainstream consumers. That won't change until WM7.
Lets be honest, if winmo came out properly and had all the OS functionality the we crave, this site would be severely lacking. The majority of the apps for WINMO are used to do things that the should be successfully doing in the first place. Finger friendly menus, better functionality (calendar,appointments,settings..etc), and more eye pleasing apps (SMS,contacts,taskmanager)....these are the short comings of winmo....but our biggest flaw might honestly be our biggest perk.
I like tweaking, I like to choose what I want, skin it how I want it, I can go from Vito-contacts to I contacts, to finger friendly contacts...I can play with SPB3, Winterface, Pointui....I can make my phone whatever I want it...do that with an Iphone....matterfact, I'll take my Touch HD and do the Iphone UI for you, hell give us a few months and I'll show you android as well.
It seems with Manila 2.5 coming, and Samsung's Omnia2 rolling, windows is doing just fine. If you want to see a TV commercial about it...don't blame M$, they just create the OS...blame the companies who make the phones for not advertising, but I don't believe advertising is needed because our phones sell themselves. M$ just needs to tidy up some of the UI, make it snappy make it transition, make it not hog memory, and the Hardware will make it sing. Right now we have the hardware with the software which is why the Omnia2 still lags and runs slow even though its running 800MHz. WINCE ftw.
Right now honestly, I hold my breath for the X3...it makes android look so silky
66mustang said:
What a rediculous argument. I know WM is the best mobile OS, but then Betamax was the best video system.
I'm not talking about what's important for me, I'm talking about what people see as available - WM gets no mainstream media coverage, no-one goes into shops asking for it (just try going into an O2 shop or Carphone Warehouse and attempting to get an informed conversation from the sales staff about any WM device) and then we get a snowball effect where none of the 'killer' apps are being devloped for it - all efforts are being made towards the iPhone because it's sexy, WM is much better, more flexible, but ultimately nerdy (not that the general public even know it exists).
Maybe it'll remain as the business class mobile OS, which I'll be happy with as there's always the skilled people on here and similar sites to keep the software coming. Thanks guys.
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Sorry if this gets off topic, but I find Phen0m had a valid point, and in fact, philosophically a sound argument. Even more so when you say "I'm fast thinking WM is a dead technology."
On topic, the question for me is left behind "in what areas?" I believe you are absolutely right about the press coverage, the hype etc and that the more consumer oriented, mass market kind of apps could end up not being developed for the WM platform if the market is too small. Possibly you could always speculate that there will be some differentiation in the market, where one brand/and or platform could become the premier consumer product, and other platforms become more corporate centric. This type of niche development would be natural in most markets.
On the other hand, many consumers don't care what the OS is, and so we've seen reasonable success with Samsung's Omnia and HTC's Diamond. As long as there is widespread consumer acceptance of WM phones it's likely consumer oriented apps will be developed.
In comparison to the iPhone and Android, WinMo has been around for quite a long time. As such it has to be backwardly compatable with programs written to run on WM2002. It is no use if you release a super wizzo updated OS, if all previous stuff is rendered unservicable overnight. Programs, whether they are written in Win32 or .NET, still have to work.
In some respects Microsoft has one hand tied behind its back on this one. As the iPhone and Android develop further they will also hit the same problem. CE 6.0 may allow a few major changes but that will probably be WinMo 7. 6.5 seems a bit half-baked as yet.
stephj said:
In comparison to the iPhone and Android, WinMo has been around for quite a long time. As such it has to be backwardly compatable with programs written to run on WM2002. It is no use if you release a super wizzo updated OS, if all previous stuff is rendered unservicable overnight. Programs, whether they are written in Win32 or .NET, still have to work.
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I have a feeling that WM7 might not support previous WM apps (though I assume it'll be easy to port, especially .NET stuff). I could be wrong, but I have a definite suspicion that MS actually WANTS a clean break.
typo said:
I could be wrong, but I have a definite suspicion that MS actually WANTS a clean break.
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Click to collapse
You could be right.
WM certainly needs a clean break. Android is a breath of fresh air.
stephj said:
In comparison to the iPhone and Android, WinMo has been around for quite a long time. As such it has to be backwardly compatable with programs written to run on WM2002. It is no use if you release a super wizzo updated OS, if all previous stuff is rendered unservicable overnight. Programs, whether they are written in Win32 or .NET, still have to work.
In some respects Microsoft has one hand tied behind its back on this one. As the iPhone and Android develop further they will also hit the same problem. CE 6.0 may allow a few major changes but that will probably be WinMo 7. 6.5 seems a bit half-baked as yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree here, because a lot of developers have dumped everything prior to Windows Mobile 5 already. It puts me between a rock and a hard place when it comes to deciding which OS to run on my hx4700, at least until I can afford the Samsung Mondi.
Windows Mobile 2003 SE and earlier have no decent Web browsers (about the best you're going to get is IBM J9 + Opera Mini, and getting that running in full VGA is a hassle), no new Skype client support, no new media players, and who knows what else.
If Windows Mobile 7 gets a focus on the finger, though, then they'll definitely need a clean break. Heck, it's even stated to have multi-touch as a REQUIREMENT. I just hope it doesn't come at the expense of the stylus.
This thought has occurred to me in the last few months. WM is nothing in the public eye due to a lack of press. There is a flip side to this though.
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Luckily it can be skinned so Samsung, HTC, Toshiba, etc... can spice it up, put their own spin on it and actually brand it with their phones. Once HTC created TouchFlo and the other companies picked up on this feature, WM became much more valuable to the phone manufacturers. It allows them create a brand identity without spending the time and money on creating a new OS. They get the tried and true while looking innovative. The hardware and interfaces will need to improve for WM to retake the market again.
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I've never used Android so no comment. The iphone is all about apps and advertising. The clones love it and that is a powerful market tool, but eventually it will have to graduate to a true multitasking system to hang on. Palm, Blackberry and WM are always adjusting when forced so I expect major improvements in what we get once the world economy changes course.
What I'm thinking is that Microsoft waited a little too long to start catching up. Maybe they didn't think the iPhone was a threat...or maybe they thought that HTC and others could do things like TouchFlo3d and TouchWiz and "cover up"...but as it stands now, we've had a few years, the iPhone has had several iterations, Android is releasing its second go-around of products, the Pre is now on stage one, and the "old guys" like WinMo, BlackBerry, S60, are left holding the bag.
6.5 is too little, too late. ZuneHD's interface is AMAZING...so if Microsoft thinks to put something like it with WM7, it won't be too little, but it may still be too late.
(As far as I'm concerned, Nokia and RIM are in the same boat, and they are actually doing worse at catching up than Microsoft with the OS or HTC with software around the OS and hardware)
From a public standpoint, WinMo has suicided its mindshare. This doesn't mean WinMo is technically worthless...but rather it's not in the spotlight.
i cannot believe some of you people actually prefer WM over Webos or the IPhone's OS.
i switched from a IPhone 3G to a TMO Tp2 wednesday(8/12) when it came out. i believe everything i read on here that WM is not that bad. now i know you all either have your head so deep in the sand you have no idea what other OS's are capable of or your not willing to admit it.
Opera 9.5 is good. but the scrolling is erratic. this is probably a product of Resistive touchscreens. so it's hard to fault the OS here. but even the built in IE has nicer scrolling (to me at least)
Random slow downs, in a call no less having Touchflo slow down to the point that the person you are sending a text to gets the text, AND replies to you before the OS even confirms the message was sent is insane.
lack of software, i know WM has more applications then any other phone OS. but where do i find them all? google works. but i spend hours searching for something decent. much less free. and then i have my personal information spread out all over the place on the web. great.
don't get me wrong. i LOVE the hardware on the Tp2. the keyboard is fantastic, the screen looks amazing and the battery life rocks. but WTF is going on with the software? i've spent more time fighting with the OS to accomplish what i want in the last few days then i spent in the previous 15 months playing with an IPhone.
hopefully WM6.5 and cooked roms bring something decent to the table. because this is just a train wreck.
/rant
I have this marketing class and my group is deciding to create an advertising for WM7. I'm asking you guys for your opinion on why WM wasn't as successful as the iphone? What were the issues is because they only targeted professionals and developers. Also why do you think WM7 will be successful because its going be more commercial oriented too all?
I really appreciate any responses thanks a lot.
have a look here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=605
Though i'm looking for peoples opinon on why they didnt like old WM..
KidTech said:
I have this marketing class and my group is deciding to create an advertising for WM7. I'm asking you guys for your opinion on why WM wasn't as successful as the iphone? What were the issues is because they only targeted professionals and developers. Also why do you think WM7 will be successful because its going be more commercial oriented too all?
I really appreciate any responses thanks a lot.
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Click to collapse
Was it really less successful than iphone? windows mobile has been around way longer. I am guessing combining all of the devices with windows mobile vs how many devices with iphone os windows mobile will come out on top.
Very briefly:
1) Inconsistent performance and freeze prone. Sometimes it is okay for days, sometimes I feezes 20 times a day.
2) Slow. Microsoft was too relaxed when specifying minimum hardware requirements. Hardware vendor did'nt want to beef up the hardware because they try to keep the profit high.
3) Passive screen was no match for capacitive touch screen
4) User interface was based on desktop windows - not optimised for finger use.
5) Most programs have ugly user interface.
6) Many programs no longer works in newer ROM. Too easy to pirate the software so software vendors not motivated to update them.
7) iPhone's application store was a game changer. There are now 185,000 applications to choose from. MS was not able to put together something similar.
8) iPhone's firmware support and upgrade was impeccable. In contrast, window phone vendor almost never support any upgrade. XDA ROM cook had to do this job for them. I think it''s fair to say that without XDA, winmo would have died much much earlier. Ironically, MS didn't express any thanks to the people here. In fact they even tried to threaten them with legal action in the beginning.
9) iPhone has far better ecosystem of accessories such as speaker system that allows you to dock the iPhone.
10) User interface design of iPhone is hard to match. Not just because it uses passive screen and does pinch and zoom. Some applications also use true multitouch UI such as two or three fingers swipe and touch for webpage navigation, thus making it really enjoyable and easy for the user. The keyboard accuracy and forgiveness is great. Webpage scroll down for example, is 100% vertical without having any slight left or right movement. Size of controls, size of text, colors, are all done right. It is easy to accurately click on even extremely tiny link on webpage without being any need to be accurate. In short, everything feels right and works right.
11) MS took too long to react, and did too little too late. Worst, they became very confused.
I was honestly a person who absolutely wanted to stick with MS and had despite iPhone when it was first released. Who wanted a phone with no third party sofotware, right? But then, when things became to change, MS was still complacent, and arrogant. I always told myself that WM7 would blow iPhone away very very soon, so be patient. Then when WM7 was delayed again and again, and when I saw how crappy the new desktop in 6.5 was, I began to doubt the capability of MS and begin exploring iPhone. The other important factor that drove me away was when I saw MS not knowing the direction by pursuing WM7, Zune, and Pink phone simultenously, and that made me lose confidence in MS significantly.
Winmo does have things to its favour though. For example: You have the chance to select the style of phones exactly to your taste. E.g. having hardware keyboard, having hugh or smaller screens, having flash in the camera, having higher megapixel camera. HTC also did a splendid job with its TouchFlo/Sense UI, and in hiding the ugly OS as much as possible from the end user. Unfortunately, the moment you start using your applications, all the ugly UI come back in its full force. Also, Sense UI is not very customizable or flexible for the end user beyond just hiding the unwanted tabs. So, unless your requirements are more or less totally satisfied by the functions of features on TouchFlo/Sense, then you'll still be dealing with the old ugly stylus based user interface.
Winmo is considered to be extremely attractive to people with technical skills to cook/flash ROMs, and for people who wish to keep using the programs they had developed for it. For the ordinary users who just want to get things done easily, quickly, reliably and also with lots of fun, iPhone seems to be able to cater to what they were looking for better.
Hope this give you something to write about.
Cheers.