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Move to Android, specific questions please :)

Hi Guys
I'm currently a very heavy business user of my WinMob Acer M900 and whilst this phone is almost perfect, it has one issue - it runs out of RAM all the time (why Acer?! WHY!?)
Anyway, so i'm going to have to replace this phone as it costs me more of my time managing it and rebuilding it to clean it up that its probably more cost effective to spend a few hundred quid replacing it.
So, as part of this, I thought "why not Android?". A few question need to be answered before I can do this though so I thought I would come to the experts (yes, thats YOU ):
1. Does it have full sync with Outlook (to include mail, contacts, tasks and calendars)
2. Can it process (and send) ICAL?
3. Are there Word and Excel EDITORS available? (Powerpoint is optional)
4. Can 2.0 show the proper Flash stuff yet? (more explained later)
5. Does the web browsing experience honestly compete with Opera 10b on WinMob?
6. Can I Internet Share/Teather?
7. Does it suffer from memory issues like a lot of WinMob devices do?
8. Can I use the phone as a memory stick like I can with WinMob devices?
9. Is there a Live Mesh client for Android?
10. Can they be flashed with diferent ROMS like Winmob devices?
With regards to Flash (mentioned above). My Winmob device - at least if it had enough ram! - can access my mates full flash website and show it (www.thehoggz.co.uk). I have previously performed some testing on an older G1 (?) with someone to find that Winmob (with full Flash 7) was by far the best at this, with Nokia next and finaly the G1. Now I understand that Flash clients are being re-written but they are not here yet. Does anyone have any experience of Android 2.0 and Flash, has it improved?
Appreciate that this is a long list but i'm so fed up with buying devices only to be let down continualy on what they claim to be able to do and can't. Please be honest, I'm really trying to get the right solution this time
I look forward to any helpfull answers!!! THANKYOU!
(just seen Orb's link to JKONTHERUN and so I will also now start reading this)

The answers to all your questions as far as I know are "yes" with the exception of 8 and 9 because I don't know. But I think you'll be better off getting an HD2 as using Android you will be relying on 3rd party software for your work a lot.

very promising, thanks!!!
8 and 9 could be serious issues for me, will have to think. Been looking around and the new Toshiba looks good.
Can't use HD2 as I need a hardware keyboard.
edit: You said yes to all but 8 and 9, so Android devices suffer memory issues like Winmob then?

First of all DO NOT buy a Toshiba, as every one of their devices in the past suffers a number of serious bugs. Plus you don't get XDA support at all.
Android does suffer from memory issues, if you run a lot of apps. But of course you can end unused apps from running in the backgroud anyway. And if memory availability is crucial to you, find a ROM without HTC's Sense UI.
And don't forget most modern (late-2009) phones have more memory than phones of 2008.

Actually I was being stupid - the answer to 8 is YES. The memory card can be mounted as a storage device.

Actually my Tosh G900 was excellent device.
Not bothered about HTC support specificaly, I have had nothing bad serious trouble with there devices - all three i've owned.
So, I can't plug the phone in to a laptop via a PC and tell the phone to act as a memory stick?

Monty Burns said:
So, I can't plug the phone in to a laptop via a PC and tell the phone to act as a memory stick?
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Of course you can. Uses standard USB mass storage protocol. Note: I assume that you mean NVM rather than RAM when you say "memory". No device should ever use NVM as RAM.
As for this so-called memory "problem"... it is in fact, quite minor. Don't worry about what wywywywy says.
Android has a very cool feature for dealing with limited memory-- automatic kick-out of non-foreground applications.
There is NO NEED to kill programs that you aren't using.
If you need the extra memory, android will do that FOR you by killing off programs based on a set of priorities (some programs *need* to keep running, some programs are desirable to keep running, but of varying importance).
In other words, more memory is always better, but it handles it VERY smartly -- so you don't need to worry about it.

Just for reference with your M900, have you tried Daskalos' lite rom?
He's manages to squeeze 69mb out of the RAM.
Ben.

Yes mate, running the 69meg lite now but by the time you have installed spb shell (Be honest, the old today screen is sh*&) and a few other basic apps.... i'm down to 33meg free - fire up Opera and open the BBC home page and i'm out of ram.
How Acer could design such an awesome device and cripple it over such a cheap component is beyond my understanding.

lbcoder said:
......
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Sounds excellent. So, is 128meg plenty? Am I able to open webpages without issues (unlike WinMob, Opera 10b)? I'm sure the answer to the next question is "of course" but, is a device with 256 much more beneficial? Should I make this a priority?

Only Windows Mob devices can connect to Live Mesh as it's a Microsoft site. I'm sure there are similar "cloud" environments that Android can connect to though just can't think of any as I never found Live Mesh to be that useful.
M

Why does so much crapware exist for Windows Mobile OS?

I never understood it because it seems to contradict itself.
One thing I hear a lot of is how hard it is to program for Windows Mobile devices. That it just isn't developer friendly as long as graphics and commands go. Can't say I know much about this since I'm not a developer.
Still at the same time I see a lot of crapware. By this I mean programs that are just constant repeats of each other and sometimes it's just a crappy do nothing program. Don't get me wrong I know developers take time and work to do what they do, but OMG some of the programs are complete crap. The games are sometimes nothing more than sprites taken from other games with a simple jump/shoot interface added to them. Apps that make fart sounds. 20 apps that schedule tasks. 100 clock apps. 1 millions custom UIs. etc. Constant same things that in the end don't really make the Windows Mobile OS anymore appealing. What confuses me is if programs are really that hard to develop then why are so many people able to create and recreate the crapware that we see nowaday?

I think one of the main reasons is that
1) Windows Mobile has been around for so long, the crap just build up
2) (no idea about this) I'd guess that if you can write a program for Windows, Windows mobile is not that much harder, so a greater number of people know how to write ****ty programs.
The one nice thing about iPhone is the market place is so crap free, though I'd rather have to wade through the crap to find the priceless gems then have someone else decide what I could and could not have on my device.

Moved as not software release.
Even with just reading topic header all that came to my head is least you don't have an iphone as then there's a amazing amount

As someone with experience of what it's like to develop apps for Windows Mobile I can shed a little light on it. One of the problems is what Microsoft provide to developers - called the compact framework - i.e. it's toolkit for building program interfaces. The interfaces it produces are very basic at best, and if you want to do anything clever (e.g. gradients, transparency, iphone style animated menus, image buttons, etc. etc.) you have jump through a lot of hoops.
Developers should be able to concentrate on writing what makes their app good, and not worry about having to make the interface looking good - that should be Microsoft's job. Unfortunately Microsoft have only provided very basic looking stuff. That'll change with windows phone 7 though.
Of course (and to defend Microsoft slightly) the iphone is easier for apple to support developers as it is one phone - whereas windows mobile is multiple screen resolutions, multiple OS versions, different processors, different manufacturers.... etc. Again why Microsoft are moving to a more defined hardware platform with windows phone 7 specs.
But it is possible to right really good/fancy interfaces for windows mobile - I like to think I do - but that's not through any support from Microsoft. To write a fancy animated menu with nice blending of colours and animated zooms and swishing left and right etc. etc. on the iphone takes 5 minutes. To do the equivalent on Windows Mobile took me about a month of writing my own GUI toolkit.
When it comes to games there's no excuse - the fact I can run playstation games such as Tekken 3 on my HD2 shows that it's capable of amazing things. The games companies need to stop shunting rubbish.
Ian

stylez said:
Moved as not software release.
Even with just reading topic header all that came to my head is least you don't have an iphone as then there's a amazing amount
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd consider this to be true too, but the only thing I can say is that at least they have a considerable amount of games and apps that are new, newer looking and some more useful than others here. I personally don't like iPhone and own an HD2, but I just notice how useless so many apps are whenever I look through the apps section in Handango, PocketGear and WM Marketplace. Not to mention how outdated most of them are too.

you guys forget that there are alot of windows ce 5 devices still in exsistence and they are still alive and kiking.... sort of...
as for the newer devices i love what they have done with htc hardware... altho the OS updates culd be readialy available to us mortals
as for the crapware.... you can allways uninstall the program or never run it if it came with your phone....
id like to say that the sence ui is mostly a bothersome resorce hog that i shut down every time i hard reset or try to get a rom that dosent have it cooked in, it culd also be considered as crapware....

[Q] (NOOB) Is unlocking the same as rooting

General WP7 question
Im an Android user at present, rooted Desire (gingerbread)
Very much liked the U.I of WP7 when having a quick 5 min' play in an o2 shop
ive not ruled out WP7 for my next phone but know nothing about the state of current Modding for the Devices
is Unlocking the same as Rooting ? ie Custom Roms, rooted only apps, framework tweaks etc
if not, how is it different? what does it offer ?
Sorry for the potentialy Dumbarse question but im not down with any WP7 info at present
Cheers

we don't have an unlock
the unlock refers to the ability to sideload programs and not go through windows marketplace using a windeveloper hack from chevron...
The unlock is not related to custom roms - imho you really don't need them nearly as much on windows phone 7. One thing you have to realize about custom roms is that while you're given an os on a device, it doesn't work out of the box. Both windows mobile and android suffered from this and a custom rom was necessary to just get some basic things to function more smoothly to create a better experience.
Windows phone deviates from that because all you have to do is turn it on and most of the UX/UI components work out of the box and creates an unbelievable experience. So at the current state, the only custom rom I have seen is on the hd7 and mozart, and those are rom transplants by ansar - not completely the same as a custom rom.
If you think you need a custom rom to live by, don't get windows phone. But if you truly want to try an OS that just works and works well, I suggest testing the device. You won't go back to android after you test the device.

Great respose
thanks for the info
For sure, i do love my Android but i find that i keep on changing stuff for not much other reason than i just can.
As mentioned, i was indeed impressed with the UI on the phone i tried...if only briefly
its a shame i couldnt get one to trial for a month to see how i got along with it, thats life i guess
i might well take the plunge on WP7 as my current contract runs out at the end of march
One or two last thing to anybody that cares to respond
so stuff like email and SMS/MMS, are you locked in to using the Out of the box app/client or are there others available in the Market ? ....indeed, you might not need to use anything different form the preloaded stuff, im just curious
and one last thing, Anyone having moved from android to WP7, you happy? anything you particularly miss ?
thanks for the above answer again
cheers
Chris

InspectorFrost said:
and one last thing, Anyone having moved from android to WP7, you happy? anything you particularly miss ?
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No, at the moment there is only the default built in app for this. However, in a similar vein to the above; there just isn't a need either. The keyboard is awesome (far better than any other - be it Windows Mobile or Android - I've tried) and it's a simple threaded SMS system.
I had Android on my HD2 (so admittedly not a native build). The only things I miss are a couple of the apps (but I can live without them and they'll probably end up having sister apps on WP7 eventually) and the USB functionality (but I know plenty of people here will argue with me over that). Am I happy? Yes! (Small grumble about the update situation, but it's a thousand times better than WM or Android).
Casey

Thanks, Man

the preinstalled sms manager for wp7 has suited my needs really well. It sms...I can see smilies. It's threaded. That's all I really need for my interests.
Now as far as migrating from android, I did but I didn't like android so much. I used it for smsing but that was about it. Android has a plethora of programs to suit user interests, but by in large, many just. plain. suck.
That's not to say that wp7 programs suck, because some do. But in terms of productivity, I found a bit more with windows phone. I think the only program I really REALLY miss is skyscape because I am a clinical psych student and I use that on a daily basis. Adjusting to no skyscape is horrible

and one last thing, Anyone having moved from android to WP7, you happy? anything you particularly miss ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I moved from android, and while I do miss some functionality (that will come in time with updates), overall I'm very happy. The UI is vastly superior, and feels like a more polished professional product as opposed to one stitched together, if that makes sense. Android was very functional, but never felt totally complete in its design. This led to a less than great overall interaction experience. But I will reiterate; the functionality/settings options are VERY BASIC SO FAR.
wp7 not only feels more solid, but you can see the quality of app design already far surpass anything on Android. The way you flow through information is quite refreshing to the linear/up-down style based on computer desktops we are used to. Email & Music player are also bar none on mobile platforms in my opinion. Still a few things need to be added for outlook support, but overall I am very impressed with these two features.
You will also notice that its the only other platform with the responsiveness that iOS has. Feels very fluid, and there is no delay in pinch to zoom features on maps/browser ect. The voice commands are very good as well (voice to open apps, browse, call people ect).
Social integration of Facebook (and twitter come Mango update later this year) is top notch. No other platform has anything like this and its really handy. I don't even use Facebook much, but I thoroughly enjoy how easy it is to catch up on people's doings and get back to more important tasks.
Things I miss are more in depth functionality and settings choices. I miss the official google voice app, custom sms/mms apps & IM apps. I also miss smart dialing, which most smart phones come with as standard. Smart dialing will no doubt be incorporated in an update, but this should have been done from the get go imo. Once we get socket support later this year, IM and sms app replacements will come. Most of the needed apps are available, from shazam to netflix to news apps to flixster to translators ect. The google voice and smart dialing features are the big ones for me. GoVoice works pretty good for Google Voice access, but since no socket support yet, the notifications have to be pushed from a 3rd party server.
There are more apps available on Android, but just like when I was on Android and the iPhone had more apps, thats not all that matters. There are some you will miss, but I can do without most of them until more developers come over the wp7.
As far as games go, the quality is beyond both Android and the iPhone in my opinion. However, there aren't nearly as many available (yet). You are seeing more and more big time developers either making, or announcing movement over the wp7 though so this will quickly change. The quality of the xbox live games is great, and the platform is definitely designed to also be a future gaming powerhouse. I can't wait till I can control my windows media center and xbox/kinect with my phone.
wp7 is in its early stages so just be ready to accept that the tinkering you are used to will be much more limited here, as will the overall control options you have. But you will quickly learn that the base structure of this platform is beyond what the others deliver (of coarse whether you like the UI is preference), and as this platform matures, the quality of the interface & app development and user interaction will be much more pleasant than what Android offered(s).
As far as unlocking, you CAN still unlock with the chevron program. This allows you to tinker with the registry to change the look/colors of the UI, control of volumes ect and of coarse enables things like file managers & custom ringtones. Head to www.touchxperience.com to see what the main phone manager for unlocked phones is up to.
For day to day use, my wp7 is more appealing to me (even with some missing functionality). Its hard to go back to the style of layout that iOS, Android ect all have in common; although I do keep my N1 around for times when I need the hotspot feature.

dtboos said:
Social integration of Facebook (and twitter come NoDo update in the next week) is top notch. No other platform has anything like this and its really handy. I don't even use Facebook much, but I thoroughly enjoy how easy it is to catch up on people's doings and get back to more important tasks.
Click to expand...
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just a correction here, twitter integration is coming in the mango update, not the NoDo update.

The Gate Keeper said:
just a correction here, twitter integration is coming in the mango update, not the NoDo update.
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I stand corrected.

@dtboos
Great post, thank you

All the above sounds like stuff i can deal with
Shazam...a quality app that i use tons, glad thats there
facebook im not on so im not bothered with that, and as for Mail/sms clients, i can live with stock so long as the work well
The Major sticking point at the moment for me (having dug around the net a little) is the API limitations that dont seem to allow for Messengers, im a big fan of Whatsapp and (out of choice) wouldnt really wanna be without it.
Hope MS are going to amend this in the (very) near future, as im sure this will persuade a raft of people on to their platform
Again, thanks for the above posts, most informative
Cheers
Chris

InspectorFrost said:
All the above sounds like stuff i can deal with
Shazam...a quality app that i use tons, glad thats there
facebook im not on so im not bothered with that, and as for Mail/sms clients, i can live with stock so long as the work well
The Major sticking point at the moment for me (having dug around the net a little) is the API limitations that dont seem to allow for Messengers, im a big fan of Whatsapp and (out of choice) wouldnt really wanna be without it.
Hope MS are going to amend this in the (very) near future, as im sure this will persuade a raft of people on to their platform
Again, thanks for the above posts, most informative
Cheers
Chris
Click to expand...
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I don't have a link available right now, but I remember an interview with one of the head developers on wp7 saying that socket support is #2 or 3 on the developer requested features list, and they will definitely be implementing this sooner rather than later.
They know socket support is wanted and needed, and with that will come IM clients ect.

yea, i believe we will be hearing about socket support at the MIX 2011 conference.

Why is scrolling/touch response such a buggy issue with WP7?

Within the native OS its perhaps the best experience I have had across all smartphone platforms. Very well implemented. I just don't understand why almost all(im going with 95% at least) third party apps are so bad with this basic function. It feels like im working with a phone from 7 years ago. Can anyone explain the technical reasons for this problem.

yeahyeahyeah1981 said:
Within the native OS its perhaps the best experience I have had across all smartphone platforms. Very well implemented. I just don't understand why almost all(im going with 95% at least) third party apps are so bad with this basic function. It feels like im working with a phone from 7 years ago. Can anyone explain the technical reasons for this problem.
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Click to collapse
Hard to tell. I experienced these same issues. But since there are lots of apps out there that don't seem to suffer from bad scrolling, I'd rather blame the developers of laggy apps than the OS the apps are build on / for. Gotta say that almost every app I use on a regular basis has largely improved with the pre_mango beta.

Most apps are that way because they're poorly translated from android apps, others are in part due to the lack of APIs made available. Overall I think we'll see a lot of improvement when the full release of mango is out.

There are some performance issues with the listbox control in silverlight in Nodo and earlier.. they improved performance of that type of control in Mango.. so developers who are using it should automatically get an improvement.

Yeah, so far this seems to be a non issue in Mango. So just have patience.

The reason comes down to how the developer has implemented the listbox. If the listbox is simple, then it should run smoothly. If it's more complex, it may have a little lag. Often, listboxes have information that is being displayed as it's being downloaded (for example, a Twitter app may download the avatar image whilst the user is scrolling). In a basic implementation, the user may be downloading the image on the same thread as the UI. This results in the UI being unresponsive until the image is fully downloaded and displayed, which explains the lag. Other apps might use a smarter method and download only images that can currently be seen, instead of downloading every image in the listbox.
Even in a perfect implementation, there is a basic design flaw in the current system which means that the handling of the user's touch runs on the same thread as other UI actions. However, this is fixed in Mango as a new, dedicated thread is introduced which handles the user's touch on a separate thread, making it much more efficient out the box. So, in Mango, listboxes will be a lot more smoother

ubuntu phone - yes, no, maybe?

It is possible to get 3 different phones with ubuntu phone now, none of them too expensive.
good.
i wonder what people's experience or informed opinion is?
ubuntu is pushing "convergence", which basically means that one operating system runs on all devices, that i can use my smartphone as a computer...
how far along is it?
now there's loads of blog articles and reviews out there, but most of them focus on comparing ubuntu phone (UP from now on) to other phone OSs - with their fully grown app universe. of course UP comes up short!
but that's not what i'm interested in. OS stability, and the standard browsing, music and video, and of course phone and sms is good enough for me.
but, i want the same freedom i have with my linux desktop install: to Do Things.
(my most important project is still to get a usable connection to the data & media stored on my kitchenserver.)
the day before yesterday i had a chat with someone on #ubuntu-phone - i think it was a dev.
i asked if i can use & upgrade it like any normal ubuntu/debian-based, install apps and utilities and so on.
basically he said, gui apps are difficult because UP uses a different gui model than Xorg, but basically yes, but you loose you guarantee that OTA (over the air) updates will work. but they should, regardless.
yesterday i was browsing the ubuntu phone section on ubuntu forums; of course people only post if something doesn't work - it looks like a normal and healthy distro forum to me.
OTA updates come in almost daily, i gather. very lively development.
there was, however, a lot of familiar discussions about how to get some app or other working; familiar from my 2 android phones: convoluted and fragile solutions, like installing ubuntu desktop in a chroot.
UP even recommends adb (android debug bridge?) as the only way to access the phone from your computer. or the standard mtp connection. so it's the same **** as everywhere.
the other aspect is this:
- ok, android is big, evil google, but there's a few established solutions around to use it without an account, use f-droid instead of play store, well documented security hacks and so on.
- UP certainly isn't the white knight here, but if not google, what do they use, is it really "better" than google and can i opt out easily?
yes, i am seriously considering to buy a UP phone, as soon as i get the feeling that it is an improvement freedom and security wise.
i wonder what people's experience or informed opinion is?

bump
...just a gentle one before the weekend ends.
i'd love to get some answers...