Related
Disclaimer: I don't want a flame war.
There are so many glaring common sense issues with Windows Mobile. For example:
The fact that an application like nueDynamicClock exists and drastically increases batter life. This functionality should be built in Winmobile in every stock ROM.
Lack of default Winmobile alt-tab. HTC adds this, but shouldn't such a basic functionality be native to the OS?
Mediaplayer on WinMobile, lacks codecs, lacks an interface which makes it easy to casually use a WinMobile phone as a MP3 player (a la iPhone)
Lack of a basic slide lock functionality (which doesn't require a pincode)
Scrollbars, really? WM6.5 finally brings more whole screen scrolling, but that took awhile
I've thought of many other things besides this over the months, but that should be enough to demonstrate my point
Let me be clear. I am not saying WinMobile should become a clone of the iPhone. The range of devices which run WinMobile impresses. The open platform status (not bound to an app store) is a further big advantage. It has many more advantages. However the above shortcommings I mentioned seem so glaring to me. What about the Windows Mobile development team/process allows such problems to persist across multiple versions?
Is it in fact the OEMs that are responsible for these issues? Certainlly, they play a huge role in memory bloat in stock ROMs. Are they also responsible for the slow adoption of more user friendly changes to WinMobile? Is the Windows Mobile development team some kind of committee which started with a Microsoft directive to make a small screen version of Windows. Perhaps they just don't have a single person who will push for the changes which would make WinMobile much more user friendly?
Again, I'm not asking for a radical overhaul of Windows Mobile internals or architecture. Customizations which address all of the above mentioned problems are in fact standard fare, on both stock ROMs and popular cab files here at XDA-developers.
Opinions, ideas, disagreements? Alternatively, if you want to tell me why I'm totally wrong and flame me to a crisp, that's fine as well.
PS. I looked around for a thread which addressed this topic, but didn't find any. I found some close matches but nothing which really addressed this Q.
I cannot help but agree with you. The size and success of XDA-Devs is itself a testament to the inadequacies of Windows Mobile.
Furthermore, the time between OS releases is quite staggering. If Microsoft wants to take/maintain the lead (depending on your perspective) in OS design then they really should be more proactive in providing maintenance releases and bugfixes for their software.
The drive in OS design is towards useability and deskilling so anyone can use a device. To use even the basic functions of WM requires a skill level many people simply don't have.
Profile management is another conspicuous absentee.
Hi all,
I have been testing android for the last couple of months and I wanted to share with those of you who did not dare or bother to try android or did so but some time ago. I do not pretend to discover anything, simply give some info to those curious as I was a few months ago...The post has not much to do with wm6.5 development so maybe should be moved elsewhere, I post here because it is where in the past I read questiosn and answers about this question.
Android Pros:
Wonderful interface and navigation concept: graphics, scrolling, effects, overall resolution and touch experience I think it is much much better, Multitasking but the UI acts more as an iPhone or Treo, when you leave an application you are exiting it, from a navigation point of view. Another thing I like is the fresh concept of the phone: the notification bar and slide-down courtain, the lock screen, the keyboard are much better. On the side of the sotware is a cloud2.0 phone, since lots of applications tend to connect to the itnernet to fetch contents, context or whatever. this means you do not need to configure or copy so many things each time you flash. It has changed a lot since the first time I tried it: wifi works perfectly, GPS and car kit works perfecly, music, etc. It is very thumb friendly, You can install it as the only OS of the phone ("nand" install) or to run it from wm ("haret") install. They work pretty well both. You can even find dual bootloaders so you can choose which OS to load each time
Android Cons:
Our beloved Polaris are old for this trip !! Android seems to have a high consumption of RAM compared to wm6.5. Regarding storage it has been solved using the sdcard as internal storage but it is not perfect since the sd card can become corrupt much more easily than in Windows. The kernels are ported from Vogue (dzo) and this means no front camera, as Vogue does not have it. BT files transfer to PC & music transfers to headsets have limitations also. Another limitation is for people like me, wanting to have installed dozens and dozens of programs, ready to use: in my experience it seems this takes a lot more of RAM and transit to the cache or sd than in Windows so this means with a 100 programs the device is almost ununsable (on the other hand, with 15 apps is 1.000 times more fluid than windows). Another con (or pro) is the learning curve of the lynux/android new environment. Seems quite easy to modify a rom, simply adding apks (cabs) to the tar file and signing it but scripting, customization, registry, programming seems to me much more complex (to make an analogy, wm6.5 is visual basic and android is java). Another big con is the shorter battery (it is shorter and the phone is more oriented to wireless connections) and the need to have a data plan. With the radio I have used for the last years, the signal is worst.
Not pros or cons but differences:
Android is great for you if you use google (I do): gmail and contact integration is great. Of course, the same goes for WM6.5 with Outlook. Android is great if you have a data plan. If you don't (I don't) you can still use it but you better be sure you now how to cut traffic to the internet. Android stock of apps are oriented to localitzation services (Gps, camera recognition of whatever is focusing, social networks, etc) while wm seems to have still a larger stock of apps, more oriented to productivity, PIM, etc. For example, wm has much better off-line navigation programs since android are all connected to gmaps or whatver.
From the point of view of people enjoying cooking roms, customizing, etc. Android+Polaris seems a step hill to climb but Polaris+wm6.5 has not a long horizon ahead. Well, I hope this helps some of you to decide it it is worth to test android or not and stik or not to the Polaris.
enjoy your devices !
Good but not a replacement POLA200
Hey cruzza i tried out near on all of the android NBHs and yes they are a joy to use on the polaris.. But and heres a big BUT it is not very stable to use as a day to day op system for phone. The cameras weird to use. After working nice for one day it started to force close with everything - there was always a surprise waiting for me when i woke my phone up. You are right bro very very nice to look at and use i cried when i had to go back to windows.. I am curious to know how does your android perform - day in day out..
I've been using Android for six month first on haret then on nand and what i can say is that a lot of concession has to be made, and some are very important regarding stability, battery life and phone functionality
You have a great ease of use and a better feeling on android but general performance and memory management are not as good as on windows mobile
I was a flashing addict and i missed a lot of phone call, gps data due to bugs, flashing time, bad battery life so i decided to turn back to windows mobile (3LIT3 VIII) and i'm very pleased with it
Well, I do agree with most of what you replied. The current release and setup I am using is quite stable for a "light" use: no front camera, no videocall (never used in wm6.5 btw), no native T9 dialer, no native birthdays notifications, limited bt file transfer are a pain but you can live with it. The rest works pretty well: bt car kit, wifi, GPS, UI navigation, phone...In terms of apps I miss lots of things: an app to filter contacts to be sync'd with bt car kit, not so good nav programs (igo, compemaps have no equivalent...). However, you can live without it and the UI is so nice to handle, that it is difficult to go back to the blurry 6.5 or 6.1 screen and I love sync with google calendar and mail. I also love the navigation and buttons concept, the courtain with the notifications and many other things. I also love the open concept behind linux and android. Remember Da_G being warned by lawyers for posting the 6.5 releases? that can not happen in Android. Some brands even support officially roms made by users !!!
The problem is that we certainly have a device old to cope with it all since Android seems to eat more RAM: this means the RAM is eaten only by having installed let's say 100 programs (in wm6.5 It performs better in my experience with so many programs). The performance of the device drops exponentially as you eat resources. Then you may want to try some more advanced setup like installing the NAND to the SD card either to a separate partition or to an enlarged data file, but then my experience so far is that the SD Card becomes unreliable (you may loose all) so yo need to transfer the backup to the pc...and that is difficult to live with for me. Another thing that wm6.5 beats android is about scripting: with mortscript it is so easy in wm6.5 !! but with Android you need a heavy pc platform and you need to learn new languages and tools, far more complex and advanced than windows equivalents.
How do I look at it? I have stopped working on my wm6.5 roms since I do not think I will last much more time on wm6.5; I will probably gift me a data plan (I never had one) and a super android terminal with a good battery, screen, accelerometer and ROM (+ all I have in the Polaris). Until then I have decided to be again a (almost) end user.
The other reason, probably the most important, to change device is that the Polaris forums (both android and polaris) have little posts, new ideas, knowledge sharing... since most people already upgraded the device, and xda developers was in my case the driver to get curious about how these devices work.
So I think wm6.5 works better in our Polaris for a heavy use thanks (thanks to all who made it posible) but Android works pretty well in our Polaris for a basic use and for evaluating wich one you like more. The easiest thing to do is test a haret installation (this means you load wm6.5 as OS, and then run haret = linux as a program that executes android) and if you like it, test nand installation with a different sd card.
pinkstuff said:
Hey cruzza i tried out near on all of the android NBHs and yes they are a joy to use on the polaris.. But and heres a big BUT it is not very stable to use as a day to day op system for phone. The cameras weird to use. After working nice for one day it started to force close with everything - there was always a surprise waiting for me when i woke my phone up. You are right bro very very nice to look at and use i cried when i had to go back to windows.. I am curious to know how does your android perform - day in day out..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the difficult part with Android is to now what to flash: if the camera or wifi do not work well these means your android kernel does not like your "rom" release. In wm6.5 we only had two kernels the old kernel and recently a "native" wm6.5 kernel.
In Android you have more kernels basically programmed by a few expert cookers and developers, mostly DZO. You have a good post by l1q1d listing setups that should work on all devices. Try and ask for help. the newest kernel is 2.6.32 I think but has no good camera drivers. The previous kernel 2.6.25 supports camera but it is quite useless in my opinion (yes, the "horrible" camera we have can perform even worse than in wm!!). These are the kernels I have been testing but probably there are others. These kernels can not be combined with any release, the cooker must adapt the rom release to the kernel. So you need to locate a working combination so you must use the combinations tested by others (or experiment yourself). You also need to become familiar with modding the NBH to suit your device screen (the way to is atools again by l1q1d) Android has several major releases (eclair, froyo, ...) froyo 2.1 is like wm6.5 more experimental so many peopple stick to android 1.5, not so nice, but they say it works in a more stable way in the Polaris. Hope this helps.
Hi there,
I'm using a different device but I thought I'd comment anyways I cannot agree more to the statement of our devices being old. I think Android is a truly magnificent OS chained to our limited resources, however it is an amazing performer.
I am still on Donut (1.6) exactly because of the same reasons, battery life, reliability and speed. I have tried and messed with a lot of Android builds ported to our devices and I couldn't get the feeling off me that with Eclair and Froyo my poor Kaiser was struggling to operate.
I chose Android because no matter what I did to Winmo I was never completely satisfied. The closest I got to it was when I got PointUI and made myself a few custom things for it. In the end the performance with video and games was not so good due to the graphics driver issue from long ago. Once I got Android I had all that I needed, a good graphics performer, didn't need to find too many extra apps to satisfy my needs, and a GUI that I truly enjoy. I am also a very heavy gmail user and I do not even have outlook installed in my computer.
I love linux and terminal, another point for Android at least in my case.
On the development side of things my heart is with C++ and C# so I still prefer the .NET side of things. Java which thankfully is similar enough to C# as to grab it and start working on it for the first time is a very interesting experience, still getting used to a new environment though.
I use this as my everyday phone and after months of continued use I can't complain. I messed with Winmo so much that it was sluggish and needed to do a hard reset every now and then anyways.
Thanks for your info. I am sure it will help other users decide to give this a try. This is the only way to know for sure what your next device will be. As for me, I don't think I can live without Android anymore.
For anyone considering making the switch, I thought I would give some details on my experience having recently done this myself.
I had an iPhone 3G for about a year before I finally decided to jailbreak it and play with extra features. This led to all out phone modding with my 3GS, and finally the decision to move to Android for even more customization and utility. Here, i'll compare the experience I had with either device for inquiring minds contemplating a similar conundrum.
Jailbreaking and rooting; these words mean essentially the same thing: you gain full access tot he device's file system. There is, however, a distinct difference in the end result. With the iPhone, you typically jailbreak by running a utility that uses a software (or in some cases hardware) exploit to essentially exploit your way in.
Almost all of these will then install Cydia, a type of App Store that is not policed by Apple, and offers apps that only work on jailbroken devices because of their need to access parts of the file system that are typically restricted. From Cydia, you can download and install free and paid apps, and even gain access to black-market sources like Install0us where you can download pirated versions of paid apps.
Cydia contains what I consider to be the staple, or common, jailbroken apps. A few are:
MobileSubstrate: an underlying framework that provides an interface for the phones hardware that is common across many apps.
SBSettings: an easily accessible menu for controlling various functions, and displaying status information (wifi toggle, internal IP address, etc).
Winterboard: a theming app that essentially creates a layer on top of the existing UI to substitute a custom element for a standard one.
There are many others, many of which have been superseded by Apple's own improvements to their OS, such as Backgrounder for multitasking. The entire experience of theming and loading unapproved apps had a very under-the-table feel to it, and it was often difficult to find exactly what I needed, if even possible.
The upside of the iPhone with this is the nearly invincible nature of its systems. Barring hardware failure, or trying intentionally to do it, I can't see how it is even possible to brick an iPhone 3G or later. No matter what you do to it, you can restore it from iTunes and start over.
Android was a very different story. The initial path into rooting and flashing was scarce and difficult to follow at first. I heard a bunch of terms that I had no meaning for, and found it difficult to make sense of it all. Fortunately with the help of a few kind souls here on XDA, I learned what I need to know.
The rooting and modding experience did not have the slightly criminal feeling to it like my experience with the iPhone. I knew neither Apple nor Google was going to bother at all if I wanted to mess with my device; there was nothing to hide. The rooting process was very simple once I understood it, and using ADB from the Android SDK (I'll give details later) made the whole process feel comfortable with good directions. Adding non-market apps was a breeze with the Side-load Wonder Machine.
Finally I decided to try a custom ROM the day that I saw the leaked Froyo beta. Everything else had gone very well, so I felt confident as soon as I learned how to test 3-key download mode and found it successful. I had initially intended to try Cognition, but a recommendation for Assonance made me change my mind. Again, with good instructions, I flashed Assonance 3.1 with great success and have been enjoying the many benefits of custom ROMs since.
Thanks for reading if you've stuck with me thus far.
TL;DR (the experience broken down)
Rooting
iPhone: A full package process that is railroaded for better or worse. Even in the jailbreak community, you have very little options with iPhone. Some folks like--or need--it that way.
Android: At once it feels a little riskier at first, but if you play it safe, you'll find this just unlocks a door to more options.
Unapproved Apps
iPhone: Cydia, Rock, Install0us. What you see is what you get, and just pray the developer of your favorite apps doesn't quit. It can be hard to pay for things without paypal.
Android: It literally could not be easier. You don't even need to root first: http://www.androidcentral.com/sideload-android-apps-all-you-want-sideload-wonder-machine
Theming
iPhone: Tedious or slow; pick your poison. You can either manually replace each UI element yourself, making backups of the originals just in case, or you can use Winterboard, and deal with the performance hit. The plus side is that once you get the basics it is pretty standard across the board.
Android: Theming in general is much easier with LauncherPro, Desktop Visualizer, OpenHome, or ADW; but if you want to do the really detailed things like skin the dialer buttons, you are looking at something quite a bit more arcane than simple PNGs in iPhone. Some of this can be overcome by flashing various themes, but it still isn't individual control.
Functionality
iPhone: For functions not built into iOS, you have a few choices which aren't really choices as much as must-haves. Beyond that, you can just hope someone will happen to make what you need, and it will be maintained through iOS updates.
Android: The sky is the limit, but you need to be able to fly the plane. I can't make apps; no idea how, but the majority of my wishlist for the iPhone was built into Android 2.2 out of the box..
Reliability
iPhone: As I said before, a hardware failure is pretty much the only major dead end, but any piece, even the battery pretty much means a new phone.
Android: Software reliability will take more work than it will on the iPhone. You don't have iTunes making a full restore backup every few days, so you'll need to take the initiative yourself to make copies of pictures and music, and backup apps.
I know this ended up being a little scatterbrained, but hopefully it will help someone out in making the right choice for them. Remember, the iPhone is like James Bond: he is the best there is at doing exactly what he was meant to do. Then Android is like MacGyver: a little rough around the edges, but given the right tools he can do anything. One isn't better, they are just different. Choose what is right for you, stay in school, and don't do drugs.
Haha you got me with the last sentence.
agreed
I agree with what you said. I had an iPhone but couldn't stand to keep it for the full two years so I got rid of it early and got a Captivate. I jailbroke the iPhone and had the same experience you describe. I can't say that any of the jailbreak apps/tweaks were really an improvement over stock iOS, although they do slow the phone down pretty badly and cause it to crash frequently. I haven't rooted my captivate yet (still a few more weeks of getting used to the unrooted captivate) but even unrooted android is vastly more customizable than the iPhone. I just got ADW launcher and none of the regular/jailbroken iPhone apps could do anything like it.
Note one difference between the two: you can install only apps and "tweaks" into a jailbroken iPhone (like 'custom icons'), while you can install custom ROMs/OSs into the android. The iOS source code is not released publicly so devs can't modify the entire OS like they can with android. It is hard, in my opinion, to justify jailbreaking an iPhone because it adds nothing important, but does slow the phone down and make it crash.
General WP7 question
Im an Android user at present, rooted Desire (gingerbread)
Very much liked the U.I of WP7 when having a quick 5 min' play in an o2 shop
ive not ruled out WP7 for my next phone but know nothing about the state of current Modding for the Devices
is Unlocking the same as Rooting ? ie Custom Roms, rooted only apps, framework tweaks etc
if not, how is it different? what does it offer ?
Sorry for the potentialy Dumbarse question but im not down with any WP7 info at present
Cheers
we don't have an unlock
the unlock refers to the ability to sideload programs and not go through windows marketplace using a windeveloper hack from chevron...
The unlock is not related to custom roms - imho you really don't need them nearly as much on windows phone 7. One thing you have to realize about custom roms is that while you're given an os on a device, it doesn't work out of the box. Both windows mobile and android suffered from this and a custom rom was necessary to just get some basic things to function more smoothly to create a better experience.
Windows phone deviates from that because all you have to do is turn it on and most of the UX/UI components work out of the box and creates an unbelievable experience. So at the current state, the only custom rom I have seen is on the hd7 and mozart, and those are rom transplants by ansar - not completely the same as a custom rom.
If you think you need a custom rom to live by, don't get windows phone. But if you truly want to try an OS that just works and works well, I suggest testing the device. You won't go back to android after you test the device.
Great respose
thanks for the info
For sure, i do love my Android but i find that i keep on changing stuff for not much other reason than i just can.
As mentioned, i was indeed impressed with the UI on the phone i tried...if only briefly
its a shame i couldnt get one to trial for a month to see how i got along with it, thats life i guess
i might well take the plunge on WP7 as my current contract runs out at the end of march
One or two last thing to anybody that cares to respond
so stuff like email and SMS/MMS, are you locked in to using the Out of the box app/client or are there others available in the Market ? ....indeed, you might not need to use anything different form the preloaded stuff, im just curious
and one last thing, Anyone having moved from android to WP7, you happy? anything you particularly miss ?
thanks for the above answer again
cheers
Chris
InspectorFrost said:
and one last thing, Anyone having moved from android to WP7, you happy? anything you particularly miss ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, at the moment there is only the default built in app for this. However, in a similar vein to the above; there just isn't a need either. The keyboard is awesome (far better than any other - be it Windows Mobile or Android - I've tried) and it's a simple threaded SMS system.
I had Android on my HD2 (so admittedly not a native build). The only things I miss are a couple of the apps (but I can live without them and they'll probably end up having sister apps on WP7 eventually) and the USB functionality (but I know plenty of people here will argue with me over that). Am I happy? Yes! (Small grumble about the update situation, but it's a thousand times better than WM or Android).
Casey
Thanks, Man
the preinstalled sms manager for wp7 has suited my needs really well. It sms...I can see smilies. It's threaded. That's all I really need for my interests.
Now as far as migrating from android, I did but I didn't like android so much. I used it for smsing but that was about it. Android has a plethora of programs to suit user interests, but by in large, many just. plain. suck.
That's not to say that wp7 programs suck, because some do. But in terms of productivity, I found a bit more with windows phone. I think the only program I really REALLY miss is skyscape because I am a clinical psych student and I use that on a daily basis. Adjusting to no skyscape is horrible
and one last thing, Anyone having moved from android to WP7, you happy? anything you particularly miss ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I moved from android, and while I do miss some functionality (that will come in time with updates), overall I'm very happy. The UI is vastly superior, and feels like a more polished professional product as opposed to one stitched together, if that makes sense. Android was very functional, but never felt totally complete in its design. This led to a less than great overall interaction experience. But I will reiterate; the functionality/settings options are VERY BASIC SO FAR.
wp7 not only feels more solid, but you can see the quality of app design already far surpass anything on Android. The way you flow through information is quite refreshing to the linear/up-down style based on computer desktops we are used to. Email & Music player are also bar none on mobile platforms in my opinion. Still a few things need to be added for outlook support, but overall I am very impressed with these two features.
You will also notice that its the only other platform with the responsiveness that iOS has. Feels very fluid, and there is no delay in pinch to zoom features on maps/browser ect. The voice commands are very good as well (voice to open apps, browse, call people ect).
Social integration of Facebook (and twitter come Mango update later this year) is top notch. No other platform has anything like this and its really handy. I don't even use Facebook much, but I thoroughly enjoy how easy it is to catch up on people's doings and get back to more important tasks.
Things I miss are more in depth functionality and settings choices. I miss the official google voice app, custom sms/mms apps & IM apps. I also miss smart dialing, which most smart phones come with as standard. Smart dialing will no doubt be incorporated in an update, but this should have been done from the get go imo. Once we get socket support later this year, IM and sms app replacements will come. Most of the needed apps are available, from shazam to netflix to news apps to flixster to translators ect. The google voice and smart dialing features are the big ones for me. GoVoice works pretty good for Google Voice access, but since no socket support yet, the notifications have to be pushed from a 3rd party server.
There are more apps available on Android, but just like when I was on Android and the iPhone had more apps, thats not all that matters. There are some you will miss, but I can do without most of them until more developers come over the wp7.
As far as games go, the quality is beyond both Android and the iPhone in my opinion. However, there aren't nearly as many available (yet). You are seeing more and more big time developers either making, or announcing movement over the wp7 though so this will quickly change. The quality of the xbox live games is great, and the platform is definitely designed to also be a future gaming powerhouse. I can't wait till I can control my windows media center and xbox/kinect with my phone.
wp7 is in its early stages so just be ready to accept that the tinkering you are used to will be much more limited here, as will the overall control options you have. But you will quickly learn that the base structure of this platform is beyond what the others deliver (of coarse whether you like the UI is preference), and as this platform matures, the quality of the interface & app development and user interaction will be much more pleasant than what Android offered(s).
As far as unlocking, you CAN still unlock with the chevron program. This allows you to tinker with the registry to change the look/colors of the UI, control of volumes ect and of coarse enables things like file managers & custom ringtones. Head to www.touchxperience.com to see what the main phone manager for unlocked phones is up to.
For day to day use, my wp7 is more appealing to me (even with some missing functionality). Its hard to go back to the style of layout that iOS, Android ect all have in common; although I do keep my N1 around for times when I need the hotspot feature.
dtboos said:
Social integration of Facebook (and twitter come NoDo update in the next week) is top notch. No other platform has anything like this and its really handy. I don't even use Facebook much, but I thoroughly enjoy how easy it is to catch up on people's doings and get back to more important tasks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just a correction here, twitter integration is coming in the mango update, not the NoDo update.
The Gate Keeper said:
just a correction here, twitter integration is coming in the mango update, not the NoDo update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I stand corrected.
@dtboos
Great post, thank you
All the above sounds like stuff i can deal with
Shazam...a quality app that i use tons, glad thats there
facebook im not on so im not bothered with that, and as for Mail/sms clients, i can live with stock so long as the work well
The Major sticking point at the moment for me (having dug around the net a little) is the API limitations that dont seem to allow for Messengers, im a big fan of Whatsapp and (out of choice) wouldnt really wanna be without it.
Hope MS are going to amend this in the (very) near future, as im sure this will persuade a raft of people on to their platform
Again, thanks for the above posts, most informative
Cheers
Chris
InspectorFrost said:
All the above sounds like stuff i can deal with
Shazam...a quality app that i use tons, glad thats there
facebook im not on so im not bothered with that, and as for Mail/sms clients, i can live with stock so long as the work well
The Major sticking point at the moment for me (having dug around the net a little) is the API limitations that dont seem to allow for Messengers, im a big fan of Whatsapp and (out of choice) wouldnt really wanna be without it.
Hope MS are going to amend this in the (very) near future, as im sure this will persuade a raft of people on to their platform
Again, thanks for the above posts, most informative
Cheers
Chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have a link available right now, but I remember an interview with one of the head developers on wp7 saying that socket support is #2 or 3 on the developer requested features list, and they will definitely be implementing this sooner rather than later.
They know socket support is wanted and needed, and with that will come IM clients ect.
yea, i believe we will be hearing about socket support at the MIX 2011 conference.
Does the DC support hardware acceleration for browser apps? I'm using Dolphin HD as my primary Reddit browser with the javascript from the reddit FAQ, and when it opens alot of images in the browser everything becomes very sluggish, doing redraws after you stop moving your finger instead of smoothly as you go.
The iPhone does this SO much better, because of hardware GPU acceleration. Does the DC GPU just not cut it, is it not engaged due to software issues (on Tweakstock 1.2), or maybe its just a lack of support altogether?
cmdrfrog said:
Does the DC support hardware acceleration for browser apps? I'm using Dolphin HD as my primary Reddit browser with the javascript from the reddit FAQ, and when it opens alot of images in the browser everything becomes very sluggish, doing redraws after you stop moving your finger instead of smoothly as you go.
The iPhone does this SO much better, because of hardware GPU acceleration. Does the DC GPU just not cut it, is it not engaged due to software issues (on Tweakstock 1.2), or maybe its just a lack of support altogether?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it does, latest kernel PBJ does tweak the GPU up a little bit (+25). You can use either smoothness, V6 super charge,Thunderbold scripts or voodoo lag fixed to eliminate browser issue. First try xScope browser see it improves your legginess,.
buhohitr said:
Yes it does, latest kernel PBJ does tweak the GPU up a little bit (+25). You can use either smoothness, V6 super charge,Thunderbold scripts or voodoo lag fixed to eliminate browser issue. First try xScope browser see it improves your legginess,.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not what he was asking. I believe all recent Android revisions support GPU acceleration. It may just be a lack of RAM.
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GPU acceleration is only in the stock browser that comes with the shipped ROM. If you modify it, it kills the acceleration from my experience. ICS has a different type of rendering in the browser to make it better/faster than what is available in GB. However, the fact that you're using Dolphin as the browser would have no effect on the browser included in the stock or custom ROM. If you want to know if Dolphin HD does GPU rendering, you'd have to contact them, or ask someone that knows as it would render independent of the included browser.
cmdrfrog said:
Does the DC support hardware acceleration for browser apps? I'm using Dolphin HD as my primary Reddit browser with the javascript from the reddit FAQ, and when it opens alot of images in the browser everything becomes very sluggish, doing redraws after you stop moving your finger instead of smoothly as you go.
The iPhone does this SO much better, because of hardware GPU acceleration. Does the DC GPU just not cut it, is it not engaged due to software issues (on Tweakstock 1.2), or maybe its just a lack of support altogether?
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Actually the iPhone's smoothness, and Gingerbread's lack thereof, has more to do with the way Android was designed. Take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eWXxCFmKUlQ#t=40s
Notice how on the Vita, despite the rock-bottom rendering times, the browser runs at 60 fps and is perfectly smooth. The Vita OS prioritizes UI input over all other processes (it's a bit more complicated, but this is a close enough explanation).
Android unfortunately runs UI and apps at the same priority, so when an app is accessing CPU resources the entire system chugs. Also as you install more and more apps, your system will begin to experience increasing lag (although some shell scripts can mitigate the problem). Fixing this is not an easy job. You basically have to redesign the OS from the ground up, breaking compatibility with all previous apps.
This redesign issue is why RIM bought QNX and is now using a completely new operating system on their touch-screen devices, instead of redesigning Blackberry OS. It's also why Microsoft threw away Windows Mobile 6.5 and started from scratch with WP7. Same with Palm and webOS, as well as Nokia and MeeGo (before MSFT infiltrated them).
I was hoping Google would just chuck everything and go for broke with ICS, but they decided to play it safe. I personally would have preferred they do what RIM did with buying and implementing a brand new OS, and then using an emulation layer to enable backwards compatibility with old apps. I don't think running an entire OS in a VM on a device with constrained resources (CPU, GPU, and especially battery) makes a whole lot of sense.
But I guess we'll see how it all pans out in the end.
ambrar12 said:
Actually the iPhone's smoothness, and Gingerbread's lack thereof, has more to do with the way Android was designed. Take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eWXxCFmKUlQ#t=40s
Notice how on the Vita, despite the rock-bottom rendering times, the browser runs at 60 fps and is perfectly smooth. The Vita OS prioritizes UI input over all other processes (it's a bit more complicated, but this is a close enough explanation).
Android unfortunately runs UI and apps at the same priority, so when an app is accessing CPU resources the entire system chugs. Also as you install more and more apps, your system will begin to experience increasing lag (although some shell scripts can mitigate the problem). Fixing this is not an easy job. You basically have to redesign the OS from the ground up, breaking compatibility with all previous apps.
This redesign issue is why RIM bought QNX and is now using a completely new operating system on their touch-screen devices, instead of redesigning Blackberry OS. It's also why Microsoft threw away Windows Mobile 6.5 and started from scratch with WP7. Same with Palm and webOS, as well as Nokia and MeeGo (before MSFT infiltrated them).
I was hoping Google would just chuck everything and go for broke with ICS, but they decided to play it safe. I personally would have preferred they do what RIM did with buying and implementing a brand new OS, and then using an emulation layer to enable backwards compatibility with old apps. I don't think running an entire OS in a VM on a device with constrained resources (CPU, GPU, and especially battery) makes a whole lot of sense.
But I guess we'll see how it all pans out in the end.
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I don't think it would require anything close to the level of rewriting that you are talking about here. We are running, for all intents and purposes, a Linux system with some custom UI layers. It's really no more special than Fedora Linux for x86 or PPC in that regard. Currently, I have mine running quite smooth...almost, but not quite, iPhone smooth...just by playing the renice game with process priorities (SysTune is great for this). As an end user with little desire to dig into the code myself, there's only so much I can do, but what I have done has virtually turned this into a new phone. If Google would change the way they handle the priority of certain basic apps...phone, systemui, media, launcher, etc...they could get the UI to that point by default.
The question then comes down to "why?" Why don't they do this? I can only imagine that there are consequences beyond what we as end users see. Me doing this to my individual phone is fine. If I cause issues, I have to deal with them and have no place to complain, but if Google did this by default and it caused issues on even 10 percent of phones, that's a much greater problem. This is the framework they have to work within. A complete rewrite would be completely outside the Android philosophy. They simply can't do it. RIM can do it because they are using proprietary systems, but Android is built around Linux. It's built around open source. We couldn't have the roms we have or the development we do without that, and Google wouldn't have the massive install base they do if they had a proprietary OS.
Ultimately, we as the end users just have to have faith that Google engineers who are far smarter and more knowledgeable than us have done what they have done for a reason, and the fact that they've decided to make this a mostly open system gives us the ability to tinker with it in ways that iOS, RIM, and Microsoft users can't. I'll take that over a complete rewrite any day.
They haven't done a rewrite because it would break backwards compatibility with all apps and require starting from scratch (with regards to features and such). Palm did this with webOS, but unfortunately didn't have the money or expertise to popularize their phones.
Also it's not just the UI priority, it's the whole running in the Dalvik VM issue. Have you ever lightly flinged your phone's screen to long-scroll a list, and noticed periodic "hiccups" that interrupt the smooth scrolling? That's Android's garbage collection, a unique feature of Java. Its purpose is to manage apps' memory allocations (there's more to it... but that's a good enough simplification), but an always on garbage collector drains battery. Since the entire OS runs in the VM, this tends to result in battery issues.
Unlike Palm, Google has the resources and human capital needed to redesign their OS. They also have a ton of carrier relationships across the globe. A redesign is merely a matter of willpower and risk aversion (and time). I'm still hoping Google is planning to wow everyone with a redesign they've been secretly working on for years.
*facepalm*
Apparently Google may end up releasing Android 5.0 in Q2 of this year: http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20120215PD209.html
I hope the report's suggestion that Google is appealing for dual-boot tablets isn't true. It would just seem... like why would the average person care about dual-booting? I know I would personally like it, but otherwise I doubt the second OS will see much use.
Dual boot to what?
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kvswim said:
Dual boot to what?
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Chrome OS
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xT4Z1N4TRx said:
Chrome OS
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Chrome OS?? chrome is a browser!. Dual boot between Android 5.0 and Windows 8 OS without shutting down the phone.
buhohitr said:
Chrome OS?? chrome is a browser!. Dual boot between Android 5.0 and Windows 8 OS without shutting down the phone.
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Actually, google has been making a x86 OS called Chromium. Google chromebooks. It's basically a minimalistic laptop with chromium designed for cloud computing. It uses chrome as the browser, google docs for office etc.