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Participating in a head-to-head against Blackberry & iPhone - seeking their weakness!

Participating in a head-to-head against Blackberry & iPhone - seeking their weakness!
Hi Everyone,
This Friday, I am going to be participating in a head-to-head panel discussion with a Blackberry expert and an iPhone expert. It is taking place at a Louisville Microsoft User Group meeting. I will be representing Windows Mobile in this "throwdown".
I have been working to compile information about the Blackberry and the iPhone, namely things that are a weakness when compared to Windows Mobile. I know they will both have a plethora of things to throw at me (how complicated Windows Mobile is to operate, blah blah blah...), so I want to be as prepared as possible to point out their shortcomings.
I read the really nice writeup from Menneisyys on the browser comparison, so I know the iPhone guy is going to be highlighting the Safari browser superiority. That article reminded me of some good talking points about what some of the WM browsers offer that Safari doesn't.
Looking for any input anyone might have, so I can add it to my list of talking points! No need to write a novel - you can just bullet items...
Thanks in advance for any armament you can provide!
Matt Coddington
Windows Mobile Louisville

Just a few here. I don't think the iphone can do any of these but modern wm devices can.
* copy & paste text in browser, easily done in opera 9.5, not possible on iphone I believe.
* Opera mobile have built-in download manager, download any file...
* 3G Video calling.
* Send stuff to friends via bluetooth (also recieve of course).
* Taking decent photos with a 3 mp & up built-in autofocus camera, the 2 mp fixed focus camera in the iphone is a joke.
* Record video at 30 fps.
* Browse mapped folders on your network with advanced filemanagers like Resco Explorer & etc.
* Draw nice artwork with advanced photo editing softwares like Pocket Artist.
* If you don't like the built in SIP, install another one. (Though I must admit the one in the iphone is really nice as it is.)
* Completely change the way your phone works and looks by customizing everything.
* Edit the registry to change file associations, like clicking on a Divx video automatically opens in Coreplayer for an example.
Sorry I'm to tired to go on with this list I think I would have to stay up all night if I should finish it.

user replaceable battery.
you have the choice between quite a few devices.

josefcrist said:
user replaceable battery.
you have the choice between quite a few devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately the BB does both of those. I will be very surprised if the BB guy doesn't sing the security aspects of the device, and as a BB Admin they are damn good. That said I have added some apps to my Trinity to give me some of that security back.
The BBs strengths is its weakness, it was designed as a secure platform for email first and everything has been added afterwards, WM had the basics in from the beginning and they have all been tweaked as a whole.
Sorry to not sound more positive about WM even though i have one myself which i wouldn't change for a BB.

deedee said:
Unfortunately the BB does both of those. I will be very surprised if the BB guy doesn't sing the security aspects of the device, and as a BB Admin they are damn good. That said I have added some apps to my Trinity to give me some of that security back.
The BBs strengths is its weakness, it was designed as a secure platform for email first and everything has been added afterwards, WM had the basics in from the beginning and they have all been tweaked as a whole.
Sorry to not sound more positive about WM even though i have one myself which i wouldn't change for a BB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
windows mobile has been around forever and has more apps. windows mobile is more open.

Agree completely, i was just lobbing up some of the arguments the BB guy may come up with , forewarned is forearmed so to speak. i may be a BB Admin but i am a commited WM user myself.

I appreciate everyone's input thus far! It will be an interesting discussion Friday, that's for sure! I fully expect for it to be civil, yet it will be good for me to have qualitative info on the competition.
It will be interesting to see what direction the conversation will go. Certain things are not possible on the iPhone without jailbreaking it, so if the iPhone guy tries to go there, he will be negating the argument that the iPhone just works! The average user is not going to risk jailbreaking their device (or even want to try regardless of risk because they have no clue!).
So, if we go down the road of tweaking devices like most geeks would do (and not the general public), I think that WM wins out for reasons already mentioned - it's been around a long time, and great sites like XDA-Developers create a resource that allows you to tweak your WM device to your heart's content!
Matt
Windows Mobile Louisville

MultiMatt said:
I appreciate everyone's input thus far! It will be an interesting discussion Friday, that's for sure! I fully expect for it to be civil, yet it will be good for me to have qualitative info on the competition.
It will be interesting to see what direction the conversation will go. Certain things are not possible on the iPhone without jailbreaking it, so if the iPhone guy tries to go there, he will be negating the argument that the iPhone just works! The average user is not going to risk jailbreaking their device (or even want to try regardless of risk because they have no clue!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well to be brutally honest the only real arguments that you have are 1 and 4 of the owziee's post.
the iphone guy will try to whoop your ass on the multimedia aspects of the device, multi touch, and a useful accelerometer and the ease of obtaining applications on a stock device.
When you start to talk about 'Tweaking" you have already conceded that WM is less accessible than the other 2 OS in its stock form, your iphone buddy could remind you that jailbreaking is to iphone what custom roms are to WM, they both add value to your device.
One More thing i'd line to point out here is that contrary to your belief, jailbreaking is in fact a piece of cake.

fyi
After you jailbreak an iphone you can have copy and paste in the browser after you install the c&p program.

FLowness of the interface
Can some one comment on the flowness of the interface between iphone and HTC HD
I have used WM and iphone but the flowness of the interface of WM comes no where near that of iphone. Also relatively iphone is much more faster, even with many app installed ( including jail broken ones) .
Forgetting all other features how does both these platforms compare in this feature

I love my QWERTY keyboards, BB has it, but iPhone doesn't.

fallenczar said:
your iphone buddy could remind you that jailbreaking is to iphone what custom roms are to WM, they both add value to your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But WM ROM upgrades don't die as soon as the manufacturer releases an update for the device - you're not forced to upgrade to a version that de-jailbreaks your phone. As far as I know, this _is_ the case on the iPhone...
Also, a WM ROM upgrade is not needed to run certain software (unless you're trying to install a WM6 only program on WM5), or to get certain functions - you can install most software and/or functions with simple cab files or installers on the stock ROMs without problems at all.

MultiMatt said:
I read the really nice writeup from Menneisyys on the browser comparison, so I know the iPhone guy is going to be highlighting the Safari browser superiority. That article reminded me of some good talking points about what some of the WM browsers offer that Safari doesn't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks
Just tell the folks "as soon as Windows Mobile manufacturers start producing devices with capacitive screens, the advantage of browsing the Web on the iPhone (assuming running the latest Opera Mobile on Windows Mobile) will be no more"

fallenczar said:
Well to be brutally honest...
...the iphone guy will try to whoop your ass on the multimedia aspects of the device, multi touch, and a useful accelerometer and the ease of obtaining applications on a stock device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are absolutely correct, and I anticipate that. Given that the iPhone is an iPod with a phone attached, I would have to have a Zune with a phone attached to even come close on the multimedia aspects. I'm prepared to acknowledge that iPhone has an advantage there...
fallenczar said:
When you start to talk about 'Tweaking" you have already conceded that WM is less accessible than the other 2 OS in its stock form, your iphone buddy could remind you that jailbreaking is to iphone what custom roms are to WM, they both add value to your device...
...One more thing i'd line to point out here is that contrary to your belief, jailbreaking is in fact a piece of cake.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, so jailbreaking might not be that hard, but let's consider the audience here. Let's go with the common denominator, the average Joe (Joe the Plummer! Ha! Ha!). Regardless of how easy techy people might think it is, the average person has no interest in screwing with their warranty and doing such a thing to their several hundred dollar phone. I know several people here at work who have iPhones and 1.) they have no idea what jailbreaking is, and 2.) once I told them what it would do, they expressed no interest in doing such a thing. Similar to the multitudes of Windows Phone users that I know - the majority of them are not interested in changing out their ROM unless it comes from the carrier.
My point being, I will argue that we need to keep custom ROMS and Jailbreaking out of it, and discuss what can be done without those in the discussion! How does that change the playing field?!

bemymonkey said:
But WM ROM upgrades don't die as soon as the manufacturer releases an update for the device - you're not forced to upgrade to a version that de-jailbreaks your phone. As far as I know, this _is_ the case on the iPhone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All new iPhone upgrades are cracked in, in most cases, days.

The biggest advantage of WM is the sheer number of devices it comes on. You can buy a phone that fits your needs rather than compromising. Want a keyboard? no problem. Want a HUGE screen? no problem. Want a tiny screen on a tiny device? no problem! Whatever you could wan't has probably already been made.
Just don't mention that for the new versions of WM, Microsoft is trying to do away with that.

The iphone isn't better for multimedia.... Only when running games and certain apps on the device itself, otherwise it sucks in comparision when it comes to the hardware.
Cameras, Photos, Video recording quality + video calls etc + wm devices more often have better quality displays (higher resolution) & bigger when it comes to the Touch HD. Ok, iphone have multitouch but personally I don't care about it...

Menneisyys said:
All new iPhone upgrades are cracked in, in most cases, days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But as far as I know, you can't choose _not_ to upgrade, can you?
On WM you can just keep your old ROM as long as you're satisfied with it...

I think the iPhone's app store is both a strength and a weakness in its case.
Filtering apps and games for quality is a great way to make sure the phone "just works" for all users. If this is all that Apple did, the only argument against it would be arbitrary. However, Apple is also denying apps they deem "too similar" to Apple apps and those they feel are in bad taste. So if someone (say Opera) makes a better browser, too bad you have Safari for that. And if you want a fart-noise generator, it depends on if it is found to be "offensive" by some anonymous panel.
Also, comparing a jail-broken iphone to a stock (under warranty) windows phone is apples to oranges imo.

more iphone info for you guys
You can choose not to update the firmware on the iphone. You can turn the feature off in itunes that trys to update and if it asks you can simply hit no. And to my knowledge you can put on older firmwares (like 2.0 instead of 2.1) after you updated if you like a previous version.

Why does so much crapware exist for Windows Mobile OS?

I never understood it because it seems to contradict itself.
One thing I hear a lot of is how hard it is to program for Windows Mobile devices. That it just isn't developer friendly as long as graphics and commands go. Can't say I know much about this since I'm not a developer.
Still at the same time I see a lot of crapware. By this I mean programs that are just constant repeats of each other and sometimes it's just a crappy do nothing program. Don't get me wrong I know developers take time and work to do what they do, but OMG some of the programs are complete crap. The games are sometimes nothing more than sprites taken from other games with a simple jump/shoot interface added to them. Apps that make fart sounds. 20 apps that schedule tasks. 100 clock apps. 1 millions custom UIs. etc. Constant same things that in the end don't really make the Windows Mobile OS anymore appealing. What confuses me is if programs are really that hard to develop then why are so many people able to create and recreate the crapware that we see nowaday?

I think one of the main reasons is that
1) Windows Mobile has been around for so long, the crap just build up
2) (no idea about this) I'd guess that if you can write a program for Windows, Windows mobile is not that much harder, so a greater number of people know how to write ****ty programs.
The one nice thing about iPhone is the market place is so crap free, though I'd rather have to wade through the crap to find the priceless gems then have someone else decide what I could and could not have on my device.

Moved as not software release.
Even with just reading topic header all that came to my head is least you don't have an iphone as then there's a amazing amount

As someone with experience of what it's like to develop apps for Windows Mobile I can shed a little light on it. One of the problems is what Microsoft provide to developers - called the compact framework - i.e. it's toolkit for building program interfaces. The interfaces it produces are very basic at best, and if you want to do anything clever (e.g. gradients, transparency, iphone style animated menus, image buttons, etc. etc.) you have jump through a lot of hoops.
Developers should be able to concentrate on writing what makes their app good, and not worry about having to make the interface looking good - that should be Microsoft's job. Unfortunately Microsoft have only provided very basic looking stuff. That'll change with windows phone 7 though.
Of course (and to defend Microsoft slightly) the iphone is easier for apple to support developers as it is one phone - whereas windows mobile is multiple screen resolutions, multiple OS versions, different processors, different manufacturers.... etc. Again why Microsoft are moving to a more defined hardware platform with windows phone 7 specs.
But it is possible to right really good/fancy interfaces for windows mobile - I like to think I do - but that's not through any support from Microsoft. To write a fancy animated menu with nice blending of colours and animated zooms and swishing left and right etc. etc. on the iphone takes 5 minutes. To do the equivalent on Windows Mobile took me about a month of writing my own GUI toolkit.
When it comes to games there's no excuse - the fact I can run playstation games such as Tekken 3 on my HD2 shows that it's capable of amazing things. The games companies need to stop shunting rubbish.
Ian

stylez said:
Moved as not software release.
Even with just reading topic header all that came to my head is least you don't have an iphone as then there's a amazing amount
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd consider this to be true too, but the only thing I can say is that at least they have a considerable amount of games and apps that are new, newer looking and some more useful than others here. I personally don't like iPhone and own an HD2, but I just notice how useless so many apps are whenever I look through the apps section in Handango, PocketGear and WM Marketplace. Not to mention how outdated most of them are too.

you guys forget that there are alot of windows ce 5 devices still in exsistence and they are still alive and kiking.... sort of...
as for the newer devices i love what they have done with htc hardware... altho the OS updates culd be readialy available to us mortals
as for the crapware.... you can allways uninstall the program or never run it if it came with your phone....
id like to say that the sence ui is mostly a bothersome resorce hog that i shut down every time i hard reset or try to get a rom that dosent have it cooked in, it culd also be considered as crapware....

yet another "wm6.5 vs Android" post !

Hi all,
I have been testing android for the last couple of months and I wanted to share with those of you who did not dare or bother to try android or did so but some time ago. I do not pretend to discover anything, simply give some info to those curious as I was a few months ago...The post has not much to do with wm6.5 development so maybe should be moved elsewhere, I post here because it is where in the past I read questiosn and answers about this question.
Android Pros:
Wonderful interface and navigation concept: graphics, scrolling, effects, overall resolution and touch experience I think it is much much better, Multitasking but the UI acts more as an iPhone or Treo, when you leave an application you are exiting it, from a navigation point of view. Another thing I like is the fresh concept of the phone: the notification bar and slide-down courtain, the lock screen, the keyboard are much better. On the side of the sotware is a cloud2.0 phone, since lots of applications tend to connect to the itnernet to fetch contents, context or whatever. this means you do not need to configure or copy so many things each time you flash. It has changed a lot since the first time I tried it: wifi works perfectly, GPS and car kit works perfecly, music, etc. It is very thumb friendly, You can install it as the only OS of the phone ("nand" install) or to run it from wm ("haret") install. They work pretty well both. You can even find dual bootloaders so you can choose which OS to load each time
Android Cons:
Our beloved Polaris are old for this trip !! Android seems to have a high consumption of RAM compared to wm6.5. Regarding storage it has been solved using the sdcard as internal storage but it is not perfect since the sd card can become corrupt much more easily than in Windows. The kernels are ported from Vogue (dzo) and this means no front camera, as Vogue does not have it. BT files transfer to PC & music transfers to headsets have limitations also. Another limitation is for people like me, wanting to have installed dozens and dozens of programs, ready to use: in my experience it seems this takes a lot more of RAM and transit to the cache or sd than in Windows so this means with a 100 programs the device is almost ununsable (on the other hand, with 15 apps is 1.000 times more fluid than windows). Another con (or pro) is the learning curve of the lynux/android new environment. Seems quite easy to modify a rom, simply adding apks (cabs) to the tar file and signing it but scripting, customization, registry, programming seems to me much more complex (to make an analogy, wm6.5 is visual basic and android is java). Another big con is the shorter battery (it is shorter and the phone is more oriented to wireless connections) and the need to have a data plan. With the radio I have used for the last years, the signal is worst.
Not pros or cons but differences:
Android is great for you if you use google (I do): gmail and contact integration is great. Of course, the same goes for WM6.5 with Outlook. Android is great if you have a data plan. If you don't (I don't) you can still use it but you better be sure you now how to cut traffic to the internet. Android stock of apps are oriented to localitzation services (Gps, camera recognition of whatever is focusing, social networks, etc) while wm seems to have still a larger stock of apps, more oriented to productivity, PIM, etc. For example, wm has much better off-line navigation programs since android are all connected to gmaps or whatver.
From the point of view of people enjoying cooking roms, customizing, etc. Android+Polaris seems a step hill to climb but Polaris+wm6.5 has not a long horizon ahead. Well, I hope this helps some of you to decide it it is worth to test android or not and stik or not to the Polaris.
enjoy your devices !

Good but not a replacement POLA200
Hey cruzza i tried out near on all of the android NBHs and yes they are a joy to use on the polaris.. But and heres a big BUT it is not very stable to use as a day to day op system for phone. The cameras weird to use. After working nice for one day it started to force close with everything - there was always a surprise waiting for me when i woke my phone up. You are right bro very very nice to look at and use i cried when i had to go back to windows.. I am curious to know how does your android perform - day in day out..

I've been using Android for six month first on haret then on nand and what i can say is that a lot of concession has to be made, and some are very important regarding stability, battery life and phone functionality
You have a great ease of use and a better feeling on android but general performance and memory management are not as good as on windows mobile
I was a flashing addict and i missed a lot of phone call, gps data due to bugs, flashing time, bad battery life so i decided to turn back to windows mobile (3LIT3 VIII) and i'm very pleased with it

Well, I do agree with most of what you replied. The current release and setup I am using is quite stable for a "light" use: no front camera, no videocall (never used in wm6.5 btw), no native T9 dialer, no native birthdays notifications, limited bt file transfer are a pain but you can live with it. The rest works pretty well: bt car kit, wifi, GPS, UI navigation, phone...In terms of apps I miss lots of things: an app to filter contacts to be sync'd with bt car kit, not so good nav programs (igo, compemaps have no equivalent...). However, you can live without it and the UI is so nice to handle, that it is difficult to go back to the blurry 6.5 or 6.1 screen and I love sync with google calendar and mail. I also love the navigation and buttons concept, the courtain with the notifications and many other things. I also love the open concept behind linux and android. Remember Da_G being warned by lawyers for posting the 6.5 releases? that can not happen in Android. Some brands even support officially roms made by users !!!
The problem is that we certainly have a device old to cope with it all since Android seems to eat more RAM: this means the RAM is eaten only by having installed let's say 100 programs (in wm6.5 It performs better in my experience with so many programs). The performance of the device drops exponentially as you eat resources. Then you may want to try some more advanced setup like installing the NAND to the SD card either to a separate partition or to an enlarged data file, but then my experience so far is that the SD Card becomes unreliable (you may loose all) so yo need to transfer the backup to the pc...and that is difficult to live with for me. Another thing that wm6.5 beats android is about scripting: with mortscript it is so easy in wm6.5 !! but with Android you need a heavy pc platform and you need to learn new languages and tools, far more complex and advanced than windows equivalents.
How do I look at it? I have stopped working on my wm6.5 roms since I do not think I will last much more time on wm6.5; I will probably gift me a data plan (I never had one) and a super android terminal with a good battery, screen, accelerometer and ROM (+ all I have in the Polaris). Until then I have decided to be again a (almost) end user.
The other reason, probably the most important, to change device is that the Polaris forums (both android and polaris) have little posts, new ideas, knowledge sharing... since most people already upgraded the device, and xda developers was in my case the driver to get curious about how these devices work.
So I think wm6.5 works better in our Polaris for a heavy use thanks (thanks to all who made it posible) but Android works pretty well in our Polaris for a basic use and for evaluating wich one you like more. The easiest thing to do is test a haret installation (this means you load wm6.5 as OS, and then run haret = linux as a program that executes android) and if you like it, test nand installation with a different sd card.

pinkstuff said:
Hey cruzza i tried out near on all of the android NBHs and yes they are a joy to use on the polaris.. But and heres a big BUT it is not very stable to use as a day to day op system for phone. The cameras weird to use. After working nice for one day it started to force close with everything - there was always a surprise waiting for me when i woke my phone up. You are right bro very very nice to look at and use i cried when i had to go back to windows.. I am curious to know how does your android perform - day in day out..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the difficult part with Android is to now what to flash: if the camera or wifi do not work well these means your android kernel does not like your "rom" release. In wm6.5 we only had two kernels the old kernel and recently a "native" wm6.5 kernel.
In Android you have more kernels basically programmed by a few expert cookers and developers, mostly DZO. You have a good post by l1q1d listing setups that should work on all devices. Try and ask for help. the newest kernel is 2.6.32 I think but has no good camera drivers. The previous kernel 2.6.25 supports camera but it is quite useless in my opinion (yes, the "horrible" camera we have can perform even worse than in wm!!). These are the kernels I have been testing but probably there are others. These kernels can not be combined with any release, the cooker must adapt the rom release to the kernel. So you need to locate a working combination so you must use the combinations tested by others (or experiment yourself). You also need to become familiar with modding the NBH to suit your device screen (the way to is atools again by l1q1d) Android has several major releases (eclair, froyo, ...) froyo 2.1 is like wm6.5 more experimental so many peopple stick to android 1.5, not so nice, but they say it works in a more stable way in the Polaris. Hope this helps.

Hi there,
I'm using a different device but I thought I'd comment anyways I cannot agree more to the statement of our devices being old. I think Android is a truly magnificent OS chained to our limited resources, however it is an amazing performer.
I am still on Donut (1.6) exactly because of the same reasons, battery life, reliability and speed. I have tried and messed with a lot of Android builds ported to our devices and I couldn't get the feeling off me that with Eclair and Froyo my poor Kaiser was struggling to operate.
I chose Android because no matter what I did to Winmo I was never completely satisfied. The closest I got to it was when I got PointUI and made myself a few custom things for it. In the end the performance with video and games was not so good due to the graphics driver issue from long ago. Once I got Android I had all that I needed, a good graphics performer, didn't need to find too many extra apps to satisfy my needs, and a GUI that I truly enjoy. I am also a very heavy gmail user and I do not even have outlook installed in my computer.
I love linux and terminal, another point for Android at least in my case.
On the development side of things my heart is with C++ and C# so I still prefer the .NET side of things. Java which thankfully is similar enough to C# as to grab it and start working on it for the first time is a very interesting experience, still getting used to a new environment though.
I use this as my everyday phone and after months of continued use I can't complain. I messed with Winmo so much that it was sluggish and needed to do a hard reset every now and then anyways.
Thanks for your info. I am sure it will help other users decide to give this a try. This is the only way to know for sure what your next device will be. As for me, I don't think I can live without Android anymore.

[Q] Making the jump from android to WP7! uncertainties arised? =[

Hello there, I'm about to make the big jump from android to windows phone 7!
I love android but I hate so much of it at the same time, for instance the lack of a decent media manager, doubletwist has too many issues and a lack of features!
Regardless I'm now making the switch to the Lumia 900 thought I've got a few uncertainties I'm hoping people can clarify for me.
1)Contacts- At the moment, I love google contacts, it works so seamlessly and gmail is a pleasure to use! However switching to WP7 is going to mean I have to use live, which is alright but it's a laggy mess in comparison to gmail I find. It's a mess to work around and it keeps shoving ****ty Bing in my face! Any way I can still use gmail or at least make the whole live experience less...crap?
2)Zune- I love the zune interface, one of the main reasons I'm switching but how are updates coming along for it? It's beautiful to look at however it hasn't been updated in quiet some time and there's vital features missing, for instance a repeat button! How well does this sync with WP7, I'm hoping beautifully with my entire library and all my custom playlists? One of the main reasons I'm switching
3)Docking- no docks i'm assuming, I want iphone docking abilities but since there's no feature on microusb to output audio that's a lost cause =[ However there's talk of a microsoft dock, what's that all about anyone know?
4)Updates- with talks of WP Apollo I'm worried about when to get a phone. I really like the lumia 800 and i'm holding out for the 900 just for those extra few features like a front facing camera since my contract just finished, not to mention my HTC desire is dead hence I'm using a replacement.
In fact would you say it's even worth waiting for the 900?? Since it's really not that different!
5)Bluetooth- I presumed this was standard but I can stream music via bluetooth to bluetooth speakers right with the 800/900???? I heard people saying it wasn't capable?
6)Dual-Boot?- Any hope of dual booting android?
7Free games/apps- Android had thousands of free apps and games, how does WP7 fare in this department?
Thank you for your help!

1) WP7 can use your Google contacts, Calendar, and sync your Gmail account just fine. You need to have a Windows Live account, but you don't really ahve to do anything with it. If you already have a Xbox Live account or Zune Tag, just use that. FWIW, I personally really don't like either the Windows Live or Google web interfaces, but prefer Bing over Google for first-try searching (I'll try the other if I don't find what I want right off the bat, but I usually find what I want faster if I start with Bing).
1.1) Be aware that Bing is pretty integrated into Windows Phone, while Google is not. In fact, Google has very few apps for the phone. Although the integration with Google services like Gmail and Calendar is good, others like Talk, Voice, Docs, and G+ is not. Google has (not a huge surprise) shown very little interest in developing apps for WP7.
2) Zune gets updates every now and then. The last was just before Mango came out, call it five or six months ago. It definitely supports Repeat though, both on the phone and on the PC... As for syncing with WP7, it's very good. You can choose what types of media to automatically sync, you can manually sync anything, and yes, things like custom playlists are certainly supported. If you've added a folder to your "Libraries" in Windows, the Zune software will see it and be able to sync it. You can also manually add additional folders.
3) I don't know anything here. There's a "Dock Mode" app on HTC, but as far as I know there's no standard dock interface on WP7. All the phones use MicroUSB, but they don't put the ports in the same place or anything.
4) So far, all updates have been available for all phones. I don't know how long that'll keep up, but Mango isn't even slightly laggy on my first-gen HD7 so I expect it'll remain true for a while. The only reason to wait for a newer phone is if you want new hardware features; the software is almost entirely the same across all phones and all generations. None of that Android fragmentation, where a device may be running an obsolete major version at its release, never be brought fully up to date, and abandoned six months later while there's still a long wait on your contract.
5) WP7 can stream music to A2DP BlueTooth devices, and can use Headset profile BlueTooth as well (of course). It's a little more limited than other smartphones in terms of BlueTooth - no native support for file transfer or BT tethering, for example - but it's generally suficient and MS has added capabilities in previous updates so hopefully that will keep going.
6) So far, no natively WP7 devices can run Android. It's theoretically possible, but you'd need both an unlocked bootloader and a port of Android to the device's hardware. The only phone I know of that can run both WP7 and Android is the HTC HD2, and that actually comes with Windows Mobile, not WP7 *or* Android. It's also a bit old and becoming hard to buy.
7) There are many thousands of free apps, or apps with functional trial versions, in the WP7 Marketplace. That includes games. It's certainly not as vast (yet) as iOS or Android, but those platforms have huge head-starts. It's growing very rapidly. Microsoft has also put some effort into "must-have" apps and games, although generally those end up costing a few dollars. Almost all paid apps have trials, though.

Thanks for the help. =)
How is tethering as a general? I love my wi-fi hotspot on my desire. One of the BEST things about the phone. How is it on the Lumias and WP7 in general?
Didn't realise Zune had been updated(updating after this post!)
So it is definitely possible to keep my WP7 contacts synced with google? if so YAY!
Also iOS jailbreaking, android rooting. What about WP7? And as bad as it is, is there a way to install 'free' apps. Not that one ever would partake in such criminal activities, I'm just curious I guess?

Most WP7 devices offer WiFi hotspot tethering. It depends on the carrier (some disable it entirely, others charge for it) and the phone (I've heard surprising claims that the Lumia 710 doesn't permit it, even though T-Mobile US generally does - hopefully they push an update soon to fix that). Where it's supported, it works well.
The last Zune update was, as I said, months ago... but yeah, if you don't have a Repeat button you're ona very old version. The current version is 4.8.something.
Yeah, syncing contacts with Google is very easy. When I create a contact on the phone, I get the option of storing it on my Google account instead of my Live or Exchange accounts.
So far, nobody has managed to root the Lumias or install custom ROMs, but they're still quite new. Until a month or so back, the same was true of the Samsung WP7 devices (at least for custom ROMs; they were rooted months ago). I'm sure that, as the Lumias become more popular, they too will be rooted and have their bootloaders unlocked.
Discussion of piracy is quite frowned upon here on XDA-Devs. The only legit reason I can think of for a potential user to ask about it is if they're also a potential developer and are concerned about their apps being pirated. That said, there are some protections but they can be worked around. Microsoft has said they're going to start encrypting the Marketplace apps though, and that will make it much more difficult.

If you're seriously interested in dual booting, I'll have a Telstra (fully AT&T compatible) HTC HD2 available for sale as soon as Internet Sharing becomes enabled on the Lumia 800. It's a hard to find version of the phone.

Windows Phone Thoughts

Hello...
I come from old school Windows Mobile (even on a PDA as PocketPC) and pretty much used one until 2010. I kept waiting for Windows Phone 7 but the wait became too long and I decided to go Android.
I've had 3 different Android phones since 2010 and I am currently on the Samsung Skyrocket, which has been the best and most stable Android Phone I've owned. I also have an ASUS Transformer Prime with keyboard and it is a joy to use. I really do love widgets and use them heavily for my tasks, calendar and other at a glance "life notes." I also use OneNote for Android to keep notes and frequently accessed information.
I am also enjoying the Google ecosystem of Gmail, Calendar, Contacts, Reader and other services.
Despite the Tegra processor in my tablet, I don't play a lot of games and I often find that I wish I could do real work on an Android device or even play my "Good Old Games" from GOG.COM on my mobile devices.
However, I am a Microsoft guy. I have a Windows 7 main PC that serves my media to my XBOX. My laptop currently has Windows 8 release preview installed on it. So far, I am liking the ecosystem between Windows 8 and XBOX.
Which brings me to Windows Phone. I have one for work but I've not really made it mine yet. I like most of what I see. Maps do lack when compared to Google Maps and navigation. There isn't a good Google Reader app I've found yet and the YouTube app is pretty bad. However, a lot of these I could live with because I do like the Windows Phone interface and the common ecosystem it will have with Windows 8 and XBOX. I am also Zune owner (we have 3 in our family) and love the Zune player.
Android, in my opinion, is king as far as useful mobile apps and collaboration. I like file level access, apps like DropBox work seamlessly and I love the options on sharing media. But I am really wanting to move to close to one platform as I can. Kind of jarring to go between platforms.
So, all that said, I wanted to hear from other Windows Phone owners on how they like their devices. A few questions:
Will current devices like Titan II and Lumia 900 be upgradable to Windows Phone 8?
I think I will miss being able to change my own battery. If and when a battery needs to be replaced, what is the process? Can a store do it or do we mail it back in?
I'd love to make a Windows Phone my Zune replacement but being limited to 16 GB kind of stinks and I don't want to always have to stream via ZunePass. I have unlimited data but I don't want to become a "top 5%" user.
Thanks for letting me ramble...looking forward to a good discussion. Even if some of you convince me to stay Android...ha.

I wouldn't get too comfy with Zune as it looks like it will be replaced with X-Box Music, It is very difficult coming from a platform which is so customisable to WP7 which is quite closed, No doubt you are aware of the limitations associated with WP7 so I wont bore you with the details, I initially came from using Symbian to Windows mobile 6.1 then 6.5 and now WP7.5, I did find it difficult at first as I was so used to changing backgrounds and checking my files in File Manager etc but now I must admit I don't really miss any of that and am happy having a phone which does not need any tinkering, I find I use my phone less now and only use it when it counts, Before it was a cure for boredom having lots of things to change and I don't miss flashing ROMs or installing CABs,I am not really a heavy business user but my phone keeps my appointments at hand and syncs with my contacts and calender and makes phone calls believe it or not I love the simplicity that I can update where I am and what I am doing with just a couple of swipes, I use Nokia Maps which I find very adequate and Nokia Drive is superb and Free, The way I look at WP7 is that it is an OS in its infancy which will grow and get stronger.

AndyFZ1S said:
I wouldn't get too comfy with Zune as it looks like it will be replaced with X-Box Music, It is very difficult coming from a platform which is so customisable to WP7 which is quite closed, No doubt you are aware of the limitations associated with WP7 so I wont bore you with the details, I initially came from using Symbian to Windows mobile 6.1 then 6.5 and now WP7.5, I did find it difficult at first as I was so used to changing backgrounds and checking my files in File Manager etc but now I must admit I don't really miss any of that and am happy having a phone which does not need any tinkering, I find I use my phone less now and only use it when it counts, Before it was a cure for boredom having lots of things to change and I don't miss flashing ROMs or installing CABs,I am not really a heavy business user but my phone keeps my appointments at hand and syncs with my contacts and calender and makes phone calls believe it or not I love the simplicity that I can update where I am and what I am doing with just a couple of swipes, I use Nokia Maps which I find very adequate and Nokia Drive is superb and Free, The way I look at WP7 is that it is an OS in its infancy which will grow and get stronger.
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Great reply. I use ZunePass to get the music I want and keep the 10 songs a month. It plays very nicely with my Windows Media Center extender on the XBOX as well.
I am OK with less customization as long as I get USEFUL apps. My most useful apps on Android are a caleder widget, syncing with google tasks, Cozi (has a killer grocery list app), OneNote, Google Reader. I use those the most. There are apps to replace those on Windows Phone and I'll try them out on my work phone. I am sure they may not be AS good but they could prove passable.
I am OK not changing backgrounds and such.
Really, I am more fascinated with Windows 8 tablets than anything else and just kind of want my phone on a like ecosystem. The trick is seeing if I could live with the changes. And the frustrating fact nothing comes higher than 16 GB and can't change battery (Titan II or Lumua 900).

It seems they are all going that way with the non removable batteries, It is a pain but I look at it this way, Most batteries can be charged/discharged up to a 1000 times, Taking into account not many people keep their phones for two years you would have lets say 1000 days usage before any severe battery degradation, That is just a theoretical view of course and I am going on standard rechargeable batteries but it makes me feel a little better about it.
Try and stick with it and do try the replacement Apps, Hopefully it won't be too much of a painful transition for you.

Interesting
I would recomend you look at the recent breakthrough in Titan (1), I came to winphone from 6.5 and now with the recent HSPL breakthrough it is like the good old days again
Mark