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Should Microsoft start again?

This is a serious question although I appreciate it could be taken as a troll.
Should Microsoft start again with their mobile OS? I know why they have kept compatability with older software but I personally think this is hurting them more than throwing away backwards compatability.
Look at the iPhone - that started from scratch and has grown to prominence without any back catalog of software.
Cheers, Rob.

Looks like its beginning to reach game-over stauts for M$ IMO. It feels like it did when Palm went down. Sorry to say, but I'm beginning my investigation into Android.

Exchange Server
Hi all
I use an exchange server provider and I find it's features really useful, not just on my mobile, but in MS Outlook 2007, in fact much more so on the PC. Because there are few equivalent services that I can get for the same price that would be compatible with both PC software and a mobile device, I am essentially tied to Microsoft products for the time being. MS have done very well at preventing 3rd party PIM clients accessing the full services of an exchange server.
Google are in the process of offering a full exchange service via Google Sync. If they are successful in this (which they clearly will be) then they are really only one step away from offering their own exchange type server which will be natively compatible with?? Android of course.
I would consider switching from WM to another OS if:
1. That OS could access the full services based on an MS Exchange server.
OR
2. There were comparable alternatives to a remote MS Exchange server system which could be accessed from the device.
In fact, Windows Mobile 6.5 can't access all the features of an Exchange server (e.g. being able to set specific Follow up reminder dates & times for emails and viewing other users calendars, etc.). So actually, an alternative system doesn't need to beat MS Outlook, it just needs to beat the feature limited WM 6.5 Pocket Outlook.
Sorry for the ramble but I can't see many large companies switching to Android if their employees can't accept a meeting request OTA!
In answer to the original question, yes, MS REALLY should start again with Windows Mobile and this time make sure users are able to access all the features of an MS exchange server OTA.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking

From what I've read on the developers Blogs the WM7 framework is entirely different to 6x.. so most of them are concentrating on this.. appararently the performance is at least doubled (this wasn't an MS fanboy). I do assume though that MS will do all they can to be backwards compatible .. the howl that happened on Palm will be nothing as to the reaction should MS completely leave their userbase high & dry. Yes Apple scored well by timing their entry into the market perfectly.. but they risk being trapped in exactly the same way by advances in technology.
I don't think it's game over in any direction just yet.. MS simply dosn't give up and there is absolutely nothing similar in the way Palm ran itself into the ground.. Obviuosly the media is a huge cheerleasder for both Google & Apple - for some reason believing these guys are in some way cool, uncommerical, funloving dudes who are only interested in the love..

look guys, some years passed by, and ONLY thing m$ wants to say to us is:
let's make smartphones, AGAIN.
pda's as mobile comps are DEAD.
f your 6.5 and rich kids.
f android and their feeble ****oozas.
xoen / nothin

Sleuth255 said:
Looks like its beginning to reach game-over stauts for M$ IMO. It feels like it did when Palm went down. Sorry to say, but I'm beginning my investigation into Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
omg, sleuth is going over to the dark side
btw, which droid model are you looking at?

Personally, i love WM
I agree with Andrew-in-woking. I love the ability to sync my contacts, notes, calender, music, photos, videos, and documents both ways with my computer and my phone. And, the thing I've been telling everyone is that devices supported by a company will work best with other devices supported by the same company. I've been using windows on all of my computers since I can remember, and I will only have the best phone experience if I get a windows powered phone, which would provide the best connectivity with my computer. It doesn't make sense to get an Iphone, unless you have an apple computer, in my eyes. Same with every other device. Get android if you have other devices powered by google os. Same with Samsung, sony, etc. If you start connecting devices across different companies, it will only lead to more problems, reducing the quality of your experience with that device. Those are my 2 cents.

funny how everybody is complain about windows mobile compares to iphone.
y havnt nobody complaining about crackberry to iphone?
not everybody buy a windows mobile phone and use it as a toy (iphone)
i love my Acer neotouch S200 with 1G cpu with custom 6.5 rom 23506, i'm not sure if i still want an android phone. oh, the only reason i want android phone is because of google gps navigator.

I like windows mobile the way it is, when it become's like an iphone, there is no point in using it anymore.
I'm not saying anything can't be improved, just that if it interface's like an iphone, you might as well buy an iphone which is what I suspect most people are talking about when comparing them.
Say goodbye to the usefulness of your high resolution screen's while using a child and finger friendly interface....massive icon's, text, menu's, spend half your time zooming in and out...panning etc.

andrew-in-woking said:
That OS could access the full services based on an MS Exchange server.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't this becoming a non-problem with better browsers? Outlook web access is now a very feature rich JavaScript based client - won't that run from anywhere?
Cheers, Rob.

I'm using Microsoft OS for about 15-20 years. First DOS, later Windows, and in the meanwhile also WM.
I don't need to sync anything between PC and phone but I want a "full" OS, you can customize whatever you want, and I love my Win32 API. On the IPhone and Android you don't even have a file explorer without downloading an extra app right? Yes I know "you can get an App for everything." And sure IPhone is comfortable and user friendly. But it's like that because it's a consumer device and being that it's probably better than WM. But actually WM is not only a toy (for people who don't feel comfortable with the more tech stuff) - it's an OS.
I don't really understand all the bad talking about WM recently. I agree using the GUI without a stylus is a pain in the ass but as I can see more and more parts of the OS are being updated with each new 6.5 build. And what's the deal about it.... it's only the f.... GUI!!!
Microsoft won't restart at all. Their OS will go and and on just like their desktop versions did. Remember all the talking back then. OS/2 kills Windows, MAC kills Windows.... IMO nothing of that happened at all.

MS over?
Don't believe the hype Sleuth.
HTC on windows rules.
Good to see you here.
Really appreciated your uc work on my HD.
New rom from Miri, uc'ed all my settings & apps.
Hours of fun.

100,000 apps for the iPhone in it's short life. 18,000 in all of WinMo's existence. 50K on Android already. M$ had a major chance when it buried Palm but it took the iPhone to bring real innovation back. Geezuz.
WinMo market share was cut in half in the last year. M$ is no longer considered a contender in the space dominated by iPhone, RIM, Nokia and now Android.
I too like the common api. But I've seen iPhone apps that blow my socks off. Hopefully, HTC will release a killer platform for android. I need capacitive, rez and battery life.
Moto Droid is the leader here now but it can't touch HTC keyboards. Lots of room for HTC to catch up. But android 2.0 on that very same droid can turn off bt and fire up your wifi profile when you walk into the door based on its continuously updated positional awareness. Weather works the same way, using wunderground school installations from a known database to give you local weather down to the exact temp where you are standing. You can use the camera to scan a bar code in a supermarket and it'll leverage Google's claim to fame and return info/best pricing on the web for the same item.
Meanwhile, m$ can't even make a decent marketplace. They are hobbled by feature drift and don't have a security clue (see chainfire's 2hr hack just to prove the point).
I wish it were otherwise but I've seen this all before...

Phonebook
munrobasher said:
Isn't this becoming a non-problem with better browsers? Outlook web access is now a very feature rich JavaScript based client - won't that run from anywhere?
Cheers, Rob.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Rob
You make a good point for mail and tasks but it's not quite the same as dialing directly from your cnmtacts.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking

Is this actually an issue of the OS itself? It's just market strategies and modern GUI experiences. With a good kernel (like we have with WM) it's no problem to add such features on top of it (if you just actually do it), but if you have limited kernel functionality but with the "good" GUI things on top it's harder to change the OS underneath it. I have no clue about Android yet but on the IPhone you can't even run background processes. Is Android just as flexible as the Windows kernel architecture? From what I heard I assume it's not, otherwise please proove me wrong.
The problem as you can tell it is more like Microsoft didn't care a lot about WM during the last couple years and especially HTC did what MS didn't, and now they need their time to catch up on their competitors again. But of course I'm also hoping they're doing fine with WM 7. I like the road they are going with 6.5 and if WM 7 is just like the new killer OS we're all waiting for (Windows 7 desktop isn't too bad neither right?) then why do you need your Apple and Google anymore???

FTTB, I'll probably get a Tilt 2 for hardware reasons. The iPhone is too restrictive for my tweaking tastes (although being a part of the jailbreak community would be fun) and no killer hardware for Android exists yet.
m$ needs a wake-up call. The mobile world is passing it by. This time next year (when I need another new gizmo) will be interesting. My predictions go with Android because Google has the information. Gathering it is what they do. Heck, the current navigation app on Android leverages the Google maps data for for actual image based turn by turn instruction. Impressive and always up to date.

Windows Mobile 7 Features leaked!

WP 7 features are leaking all over the net. Let me list them :
· WP7 will be announced at MWC, and there will be a demo, but this will be just the UX
· MIX will have specific developement focus sessions on WP7
· WP7 supports both Sliverlight (out of browser) and XNA
· Silverlight is version 3.0, with elements of 4.0 plus mobile specific features such as sensors etc
· XNA apps can be developed using XNA GameStudio 3.1
· SL apps developed using Expression Blend 3.x and VS2010
· MS will release a mobile version of VS / Expression which will be free, and VS2010 / Expression Pro will have a free add-on
· WP7 will have an equivalent of .NET CF embedded into SL, but no SQL.
· WP7 will have isolated storage which is accessible using LINQ
· The UX of WP7 is based upon a theme called “METRO” and is similar to Zune HD, but with a completely new “Start” screen.
· No multi-tasking (applications will pause when in the background, however they will support notifications using the MS Push Notifications environment)
· No .NET CF backwards compatibility, however a proportion of the data and business logic in .NET CF could be ported
· MS were confident to have devices ready for Sep 2010
· No MS manufactured device, however much tighter control of manufactring process, so as an example each device has a 3D processing chipset, and MS provide all of the device drivers. So no platform builder. This enables OTA updates and simplified model for ODM’s
· Marketplace will support buy and try before you buy, as well as an API
· ODM / OEM will not be able to modify the “Start” screen, so no more HTC Sense / TouchFlo etc.
· MS are actually ahead of schedule which will surprise the analysts / journalists
· Browsing experience is currently faster / better than iPhone 3G, and they are aiming towards 3GS.
· Browser is based upon desktop IE7 codebase, but with some IE8 functionality
· No in browser Flash or SL
· WP7 has full integration with XBOX Live, and ability to purchase games
· WP7 will use the Zune software for music, videos, photos sync
· WP7 only supports app installation through service based delivery i.e. marketplace, so no side-loading
· MS will provide a hosted push notifications environment
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
[Source]
While this might disappoint most but I for one am really happy to see that Microsoft is finally taking this seriously and has worked on WM7 from ground up!
Finally we will be able to get the User Experience comparable to iPhone/Android! Xbox Live and Zune integration sounds totally awesome!

Well this would be the media edition of the phone.... and all the OEM's will sport the 'professional' version of the phone...makes sense.

Still that won't make any Extreme Changes. The basic UI will remain the same. I feel there won't be any major differences User Interface wise between Windows Mobile 7 versions...they've already disallowed 3rd Party UI!

Im afraid your wrong . HTC have already said they will continue supporting Sense 3D on WinMo7, now they wouldnt have been able to do that if MS is going to lock down the UI.
I think/heard there will be 2 versions of the OS, the zune version which is what you see above (this will run on MS hardware, pretty much like the zune) and all the OEM's such as HTC, Toshiba, SE, etc etc will run the pro version of the OS which will similar to what we are used to...how different the OS will be in terms of GUI will be interesting to see, i sure hope that the zune version doesnt get all the goodies.

"WP7 only supports app installation through service based delivery i.e. marketplace, so no side-loading"
Does that mean we could not anymore install cab files from xda.dev ?

How far the new OS is going to be customizable is still to be seen. I think they will keep everything closed just like the iPhone and only allow limited modifications.

no multi tasking?... ... ...the point is???

If the above features are true ... Good bye WinMo7
I will go with Android (Or iPhone 4.0?) ...

^Could not wait and have already went over to the dark side...android is very cool best thing I've done!

this looks like some fanboys conspiracy
all windows mobile power (from the users point of view) that its so customizable and like micro computer
if wm7 gonna be kind of an iphone people will prefer the real iphone its perfect in its own limited way...

I can only say, if winmo drops multi-tasking, I'll drop winmo.
Gee. if people want a iPhone they'll get one.
Not everyone may be able to afford a 1ghz processor now, but the future's going to catch up before winmo7 comes out anyway.

tuksedra said:
no multi tasking?... ... ...the point is???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Think of the pleasure to be got from watching WinMophiles having to admit to iPhonatics that WinMo is now even worse at multi-tasking than the iPhone is! (rotfl)

moooxooom said:
I can only say, if winmo drops multi-tasking, I'll drop winmo.
Gee. if people want a iPhone they'll get one.
Not everyone may be able to afford a 1ghz processor now, but the future's going to catch up before winmo7 comes out anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x2!!!
Without Multi-Tasking, HTC Sense and not be able to install whatever I want in where I want, I will never buy a new winmo pda phone again...
I'll guess I'll have to go to Android or in the worst case to iPhone

Multi-Tasking would be indeed a absolute no-go. I'm sure, that will never NOT happen.
I hope, you're also in the future allowed to install what you want where you want. I hate these Iphone restrictions. Let's hope, this will not gonna happen for WM.

I think companies are going paranoid... don't understand why many restrictions when on the desktop side u can do whatever u want... because of a majority of dumbs, that don't even know how to shutdown a computer, the rest of us have to suffer of these limitations...

No multi-tasking means I'm sticking with 6.5.3 (or whatever they call it) or going with Android.
Don't they realize that competing with Apple in Apple's arena will only get them smoked PLUS alienate their fanbase? We go to WinMo because we DON'T want iphone os. What we do want is a rebuilt, faster, better WinMo os that is just as customizable as the current os.
Seriously, if they are planning on putting out a winphone os, they are going to lose. period.

fb401 said:
No multi-tasking means I'm sticking with 6.5.3 (or whatever they call it) or going with Android.
Don't they realize that competing with Apple in Apple's arena will only get them smoked PLUS alienate their fanbase? We go to WinMo because we DON'T want iphone os. What we do want is a rebuilt, faster, better WinMo os that is just as customizable as the current os.
Seriously, if they are planning on putting out a winphone os, they are going to lose. period.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said

Maybe they will remove the file manager. If they remove the file manager, the device is no more PDA.

fb401 said:
We go to WinMo because we DON'T want iphone os.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"We" aren't exactly a mass market, though. There were considerably more iPhones sold in the last 12 months than every single model of Windows Mobile phone put together. (WinMo is currently a distant fourth in the smartphone market behind Symbian, RIM and iPhone, with Android closing). The bulk of those who still buy WinMo phones are corporate customers. If abandoning the needs of a tiny minority of users (i.e. us) will net Microsoft a substantially improved marketshare, you can bet they'll do just that.
Having said that, I'm inclined to view this particular rumour with some suspicion; at the very least, with other rumours persistently claiming that there is more than one version of WM7 in the offing, it certainly makes no sense to assume, at this stage, that every available version will be like this.

sigh..........
I really hope some of this is not true. And I will wait until some formal announcement to make up my mind BUT if true, no multitasking, no user UI customization, no apps installed to sd card, all apps through the Marketplace?? Had I wanted to live in a walled garden I would have already bought an Iphone.
I've been using WinMo PDAs and phones for more years than I care to admit. Maybe it is time to simplify my life and get a dumb phone and swear off tech. Guess I can start carrying around all my passwords written down in a code again in my purse (shades of the 80's here except that I have a bunch more and they are all pretty complicated now- I do love my ewallet). grrrrrrr...............

Why iphone OS is better than WM?

Any one can explain why Iphone can run graphics more smooth than WM?
I have HTC Touch HD and i test a lot of cooked roms and an official roms but it still slowly.
The hardware of Iphone is better than my HTC HD?
Regards

This might have been the wrong place to ask that question, but have you seen how simple the OS for the iPhone is? If you compare it with WM, it's just a start menu with tweaks. If you did that to WM, it'd fly as well too because it has no reason to use up it's power or memory in keeping a very nice interface smooth.

Good evening, don't forget that Windows Mobile (WinCE) is way older than Iphone... Microsoft WinCE was created in 1996 beetwin that time and now, things have change 3g, smartphone, colour-screen, wifi,... Windows Mobile is not ready it's like a wall with 15 layer of wallpaper. While Iphone is new it's developed with all this technologies built-in like a wall with only one wallpaper and the best one.
Between Cassipeia A20 and latest HTC... it's been a long way.

hugomenezes said:
Any one can explain why Iphone can run graphics more smooth than WM?
I have HTC Touch HD and i test a lot of cooked roms and an official roms but it still slowly.
The hardware of Iphone is better than my HTC HD?
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what windows mobile can do that iphone cannot..
1st windows can unzip RAR,zip...etc.. alot kind of format when company send u a email that have attachment in ZIP that iphone unable to read the file. but windows mobile can!
2nd playing play with fews friend on wifi local game network on laptop connecting windows mobile.but iphone cannot!
3rd windows mobile can play FLASH format. but iphone cannot!
4th windows mobile able to support more video/audio codec. but iphone cannot!
5th windows mobile can download bittorrent!. but iphone cannot
6th windows mobile can change battery when ur battery is low. but iphone cannot!
7th windows mobile more app.
8th windows mobile can sync any song/video and other without installing itunes.but iphone must install itunes to add video or song
9th windows mobile can share song/video/photo other file but iphone cannot!
sorry too many to add.. lazy

Moved to general, as not D&H.
WARNING: I WANT NO FLAMING ON THIS THREAD, ONLY DISCUSSION AND HEALTHY DISCUSSION. ANY FLAMING THE THREAD WILL BE CLOSED AND ACTION WILL BE TAKEN AGAINST THE MEMBERS.

hugomenezes said:
Any one can explain why Iphone can run graphics more smooth than WM?
The hardware of Iphone is better than my HTC HD?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The GPU is faster; generally PowerVR versus Adrena 200 (AMD Z430). Has nothing to do with the OS. In my opinion, the Apple OS approach is way too restrictive.

One thing WiMo can not do that the iPhone can is WPA2-Enterprise authentication without a certificate. But that's about it. At the end of the day, I don't miss my iPhone, very happy with my HTC HD2.

Well.. if you are comparing iOS with WiMo.. you might aswell add Android.
Well, personally I prefer both Android and WinMo over iOS.
why?
basically, because you can do more with both android and WinMo without rooting/jailbreaking the device. Than you could with an non-jailbroken iPhone.
with Android and Winmo:
- You can use your phone as a wi-fi hotspot
- Download different movie/media players
- Brows your files on your device and/or computer
- etc
However..
You can't add icons onto your desktop in WinMo. Neither can you add folders on your own(It is possible that i've been missing something here ofc).
Both the Android and iOS platform has devices that does support games with smooth graphics(as you call it).
And I find that the App store and Android Market is better than the WinMo market.
But that might just be me.
Both Android and WinMo got devices with harware keyboard. Witch is something the iOS does not have. I did not like to use my iPhone with wet fingers, same goes for most touch screens that i've used. However, that is not that big of an issue with a hardware keyboard.
You can also have widgets in android(You can also do this in WinMo if you download the right app for it. But I can't remember the name) I.e you can place a weather forecast on your desktop/lockscreen. On iOS however, you will have to click the apps icon, wait for the loading and then refresh to see the weather.
Same goes for the calendar.. In android I can see my appointments straight on the home screen.. However on the iOS I have to enter the Calendar app.
All in all, here is the way I would put my prefferences.
1. Android(A quite open platform. With the posibillity of adding widgets etc.)
2. WinMo 6.5+
3. iOS(I would really like to see some widgets.. atleast in the lock screen..)

I agree with ukon .
winmo is older, hence not as graphicly 'complete' if you'd like.
But it does not preform any slower than the iphone os doing the same tasks...
Winmo lets you to do anything you like, within reason... Everything mentioned above by another poster. Its not a restricted OS. Unlike the iphone os.
Android is in my opinion a lovely mix of the two.
flawless GUI, and its not restrictive.

I want a phone where I have total control: WM & Android.
NOT a phone that totally controls me: iOS
Nuff said.

phatmanxxl said:
I want a phone where I have total control: WM & Android.
NOT a phone that totally controls me: iOS
Nuff said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said!

ov2rey said:
what windows mobile can do that iphone cannot..
7th windows mobile more app.
sorry too many to add.. lazy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where are they hiding all those apps?

pkoper said:
Where are they hiding all those apps?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On this little ol' think called t'interweb
Try Handango, MS Marketplace, XDA, google.
See, unlike Apple, MS don't dictate who can create and sell apps for their OS, and WM has a huge headstart on Apple.

It's not better, it just has a better marketing

jge93 said:
It's not better, it just has a better marketing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
In addition to all of the above, Steve Jobs has figured out that most people don't need complicated stuff, it's the "stupid simple and shiny interface" ratio to. "advanced fuctions". I really don't know if that's really good or bad and I guess to each his own. Sad tho that these different capabilities haven't so far put together. Maybe Android will accomplish that one day.
Oh, and the way iPhone has implemented video call is utterly rediculous. Or have they changed that restriction policy later or did someone hack it open?

hugomenezes said:
Any one can explain why Iphone can run graphics more smooth than WM?
I have HTC Touch HD and i test a lot of cooked roms and an official roms but it still slowly.
The hardware of Iphone is better than my HTC HD?
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to ignore the other posts in this topic. It seems too many are clouded by iOS hatred (I mean, "WinMo has more apps than iOS"? Really?).
As far as I know, there are a lot of factors that goes into why WinMo is not as 'smooth'/efficient as iOS. Among these factors are lack of proper GPU drivers (due to Qualcomm's licensing issues), lack of proper optimization due to multiple phone spec setup (iPhone hardware tends to be static and fully supported by Apple itself), and, perhaps most notably, Windows Mobile is a very old OS. It doesn't support a lot of modern tech in ARM CPUs.
The last reason is probably why Microsoft is finally deciding to drop Windows Mobile and develop Windows Phone.
But to get to the point, Apple doesn't have any of the issues above. iOS is modern, available on static hardware configurations, and, of course, Apple's micromanagement of its OS/app market is probably doing a lot to keep things efficient. Of course, this approach has its drawbacks too (as people here would probably love to tell), but the advantage is also obvious for the world to see.

answer the question topics. I think it smoother graphics on the iphone because the resolution is only 320x240 qvga while your touch hd is WVGA 480x800.
and it is certainly lighter os on iphone because it only displays a static icon in the menu. if you like static icons ,turn off htc sense and use titanium. or use shell menu such as spb. it'll fly
and for graphics in applications such as games. buy games from EA and Gameloft and i guarantee they run smoother than the iphone. for example Ferrari GT from gameloft. play using accelerometer on for both, you'll see which phone steer car easily

madnish30 said:
WARNING: I WANT NO FLAMING ON THIS THREAD, ONLY DISCUSSION AND HEALTHY DISCUSSION. ANY FLAMING THE THREAD WILL BE CLOSED AND ACTION WILL BE TAKEN AGAINST THE MEMBERS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another quick reminder.
Such thread are usually shut, but i'm leting this be because so far it seems clean and productive, please don't turn it ugly.
Thanks
madnish30.

[Q] Why is WM so poorly supported by big names?

In my attempt to get the most out of my WM powered device (HD2) i could not help realizing that windows mobile is not among the targets of big software names like Yahoo, Skype, Fring, Google and what's more intereseting not even by Microsoft...
Take for exemple Google... it has it's Android... and the thing that it is best at is integrating anything google related into android phones: mail, calendar, contacts, photos, maps... you name it.... and they do this out of the box... and with the best user experience keeping the looks of the web based counterparts...
Yahoo and Skype... they both have IM clients for Android, Iphone, Symbian, Blackberry... but NOT windows mobile... WHY?...
Fring is perfect with anything but WM
Iphone and Android are so new on the market yet everybody supports it asap.
As for Microsoft you would've expected at least to integrate their own apps into windows phones... but they don't... They have the live app wich integrates messenger, contacts and mail... but not in the best way... I would've liked to see something to directly make a space entry from your phone's interface, to directly publish a photo or to send a file to skydrive... to have calendar synced at its full web potential... i know you have the exchange emulation like google but what about alternate calendars...
Bing is another thing... we have to install it your self instead of beeing fully integrated into your windows phone....
So the question is how come WM lost terrain being that it is the oldest on the market and has such a computing power in support of it (I guess we all agree that MS is a giant)?....

WM was designed for business, hence why it has excellent integration with exchange email/calendar/contacts/etc. It also has the PDA version of office built in.
Skype works on WM6.5, there's a thread on it in the HD2 section.
You can set up your yahoo/google/hotmail accounts in seconds on it.
MS were slow (and looking at WP7 they're going backwards) on the mobile market, back when they started the market was for pocket PCs, people wanted a version of their desktop computer which could be carried in their hand, so making the interface similar was what people were after.
They didn't consider the consumer market really and got complacent. WM did the job it was designed for, which most of their customers wanted, so why change?
Then the mobile market took off, other manufacturers such as HTC took advantage of the business design of WM and created user interfaces such as TF3D/Sense. SPB have also created an excellent interface called Mobile Shell 3.5, I recommend installing the trial version and giving it a go.
MS didn't have much in the way of a development team behind WM, there was no perceived need, and it has no "cool" image to go with it, so there's a small market share, hence the lack of "Times Online" type apps for it while the iPhone is supported.
Why on earth would you want to install Bing though?

xaccers said:
WM was designed for business, hence why it has excellent integration with exchange email/calendar/contacts/etc. It also has the PDA version of office built in.
Skype works on WM6.5, there's a thread on it in the HD2 section.
You can set up your yahoo/google/hotmail accounts in seconds on it.
MS were slow (and looking at WP7 they're going backwards) on the mobile market, back when they started the market was for pocket PCs, people wanted a version of their desktop computer which could be carried in their hand, so making the interface similar was what people were after.
They didn't consider the consumer market really and got complacent. WM did the job it was designed for, which most of their customers wanted, so why change?
Then the mobile market took off, other manufacturers such as HTC took advantage of the business design of WM and created user interfaces such as TF3D/Sense. SPB have also created an excellent interface called Mobile Shell 3.5, I recommend installing the trial version and giving it a go.
MS didn't have much in the way of a development team behind WM, there was no perceived need, and it has no "cool" image to go with it, so there's a small market share, hence the lack of "Times Online" type apps for it while the iPhone is supported.
Why on earth would you want to install Bing though?
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Click to collapse
This is exactly why Microsoft has utterly failed in the mobile space. People DO NOT want their desktop PC in their pocket. They just want a subset of their desktop, plus all the advantages that a mobile device offers. Apps, location awareness, always-on connectivity, etc. Nobody cares if you can edit a spreadsheet on your phone. Why would you want to do this in the first place?
Microsoft has failed to deliver anything "new" to the mobile space, and watched Google and Apple completely dominate the smartphone market. And Windows Phone 7? Another doomed failure from Redmond. It took them 4 years to copy Apple. Even RIM has better developer support than Microsoft...
Speaking of RIM, I think it's safe to say that Windows Mobile as a business platform has been a failure since the monochrome Blackberry days. RIM has been dominating there for quite a while.
So where is it that Windows Mobile fits in? Another me-too iPhone wanna be, or maybe the #2 or #3 business-oriented smart-phone OS? Meh...

xaccers said:
Why on earth would you want to install Bing though?
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I don't! but it was a clear example of not integrating even their own software out of the box...
as for the rest... one of the sides of the question was why the others are not considering WM as a viable platform to deliver their products?... all WM just have to find third party apps or "workarrounds" for them to work...

ccezar2004 said:
one of the sides of the question was why the others are not considering WM as a viable platform to deliver their products?... all WM just have to find third party apps or "workarrounds" for them to work...
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Here's the funny part:
Microsoft tried to BRIBE iPhone developers to port their apps for Windows Mobile. The result? Most said "go screw, your platform sucks."
That pretty much sums it up... They can't even get people working on Windows Mobile by paying them. .NET is a decent foundation, but development for a mobile device requires the right tools for the job. Plus, being 4 years behind the curve, it's going to be hard for M$ to get critical mass at this point.
The shocking thing is, they already have a successful product with a healthy developer community: The X-Box. Why they didn't look to that team for inspiration is beyond me...
Honestly, they should just give up. Most former WM people I know switched to Android long ago. I don't see any reviewers or users tripping over themselves to get the next Microsoft phone like they do for the next iPhone, Blackberry, Android, etc. Same goes for Zune and numerous other Microsoft train wrecks.
Windows Phone 7 will turn out to be just as lackluster as 6.5 - which is a good thing, because Android could use a few more users

HamNCheese said:
This is exactly why Microsoft has utterly failed in the mobile space. People DO NOT want their desktop PC in their pocket. They just want a subset of their desktop, plus all the advantages that a mobile device offers. Apps, location awareness, always-on connectivity, etc. Nobody cares if you can edit a spreadsheet on your phone. Why would you want to do this in the first place?
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I said "wanted" although many, including myself, still do.
It's the reason why WM is being renamed WMC rather than being dropped, because there are so many users out there who require a hand held versatile computer and WM does that job exceptionally well.
White collar business users need something well established which can edit office documents, seamlessly and reliably sync with their email system. They also want something flashy with an impressive screen. WM answers these needs perfectly.
The great unwashed want just the things you mentioned, in a handset which wows their friends and gains them kudos. WM can wow people, but it will never have the "coolness" of an iPhone, nor will android.
Will we see another WM phone? There's talk of a business version of WP7 which may be close but most likely not as good. Perhaps if when WP7 goes the way of Kin they'll sack the whole team and go back to WM.
RIM have a headstart on office phones because they answered a need which MS ignored, as they were too into letting manufacturers decide what the devices should be. Like the iPhone, most people/businesses go with RIM not because it's the most suitable for their needs, but because other people use it. Blackberrys are clunky, unreliable, awkward to use and a PITA to support.

xaccers said:
I said "wanted" although many, including myself, still do.
It's the reason why WM is being renamed WMC rather than being dropped, because there are so many users out there who require a hand held versatile computer and WM does that job exceptionally well.
White collar business users need something well established which can edit office documents, seamlessly and reliably sync with their email system. They also want something flashy with an impressive screen. WM answers these needs perfectly.
The great unwashed want just the things you mentioned, in a handset which wows their friends and gains them kudos. WM can wow people, but it will never have the "coolness" of an iPhone, nor will android.
Will we see another WM phone? There's talk of a business version of WP7 which may be close but most likely not as good. Perhaps if when WP7 goes the way of Kin they'll sack the whole team and go back to WM.
RIM have a headstart on office phones because they answered a need which MS ignored, as they were too into letting manufacturers decide what the devices should be. Like the iPhone, most people/businesses go with RIM not because it's the most suitable for their needs, but because other people use it. Blackberrys are clunky, unreliable, awkward to use and a PITA to support.
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So let me get this straight... Android, which is out-selling the iPhone at the moment, has failed to "wow" users? And Windows Phone 7 will "wow' who?
If RIM is beating them on Business applications, and the iPhone is killing them on "coolness" - how does Windows Mobile stand a chance?
Frankly, Roz Ho (and that whole team) should be fired. The whole Project Pink / Kin debacle shows exactly how little they understand the mobile market. The acquisition of Danger was one of the worst moves in the long run - all it did was bring pain and suffering to the employees and users.

HamNCheese said:
So let me get this straight... Android, which is out-selling the iPhone at the moment, has failed to "wow" users? And Windows Phone 7 will "wow' who?
If RIM is beating them on Business applications, and the iPhone is killing them on "coolness" - how does Windows Mobile stand a chance?
Frankly, Roz Ho (and that whole team) should be fired. The whole Project Pink / Kin debacle shows exactly how little they understand the mobile market. The acquisition of Danger was one of the worst moves in the long run - all it did was bring pain and suffering to the employees and users.
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I didn't say android didn't "wow" users, I said it won't have the "coolness" of an iPhone. iPhone is more a fashion item than a smartphone for most people, Apple have spent an absolute fortune building that "cool" image of their products. We know they suck, and android/WM is more customisable/better features/functions, but the great unwashed don't care about that, they just want to be able to show they're "cool" (lame) because they have an iPhone. Someone's already posted elsewhere that his aunt assumed his phone wasn't very good because it wasn't an iPhone.
Android, being an OS and in a similar way to WM, isn't the phone. The combination of the OS and the hardware makes a great phone, such as WM6.5 and the HD2, or the android equivalent. Put the OS on a crappy phone and it's not going to wow anyone. Android have been successful because they have the apps/games that non-sheep want, and its available on cheap phones. I hope they continue to eat away at Apple's share of the market, and continue to improve rather than end up taking a backwards step and following Apple/WP7. Of course, history is littered with the remains of better products which just haven't sold enough (betamax, hydropnumatic suspension, HD-DVD, Amy Studt albums).
RIM are only beating WM through their business model. Once a company has started using BES it's pretty much trapped, it doesn't make financial sense to change, they've paid for the hardware and the licences so they might as well keep using them even if there's a more reliable, functional and cheaper alternative.
In companies, in the UK at least, most people responsible for IT expenditure turn to external companies for advice or decide because they've read something in a magazine that their competitor is using.
External IT companies will have their own preferences for what they suggest; profitability, previous experience, acceptability to business.
Take one of the companies I support who've had years of trouble with blackberrys, they've recently changed network because they were fed up with the handset problems. They've got 40 handsets, that's a lot of money invested in something which often doesn't work. They're still having problems, ironically with the senior managers' handsets which isn't going down well. The users with their own WM handsets set up to sync with the exchange server have never had a problem. Until I arrived on the scene they had no idea there were alternatives.
MS have not pushed the abilities of WM, that's been their biggest failing. They've never acted like they take their handheld OSs seriously. Instead they concentrated on the more lucrative desktop and server business.
At the moment all my bile is being saved for Ray Ozzie (especially after finding out he's the asshat behind Lotus Notes) so I can't spare any for Roz (besides, she's kinda cute).
W7 seems to wow no one of any worth. It looks like it was designed by a new parent after buying their kid duplo bricks
I suppose it could be argued that some of us a "wowed" as to how bad it is.

This thread is degenerating into something else... Therefore I'm closing it.
Message to the OP... Chiar trebuie sa intrebi de ce ? Nu e clar ca Iphone si Android domnia marketu' deacum ? Noi, aici la xda, ne tinem cu dintzii de o epava care se scufunda, dar.. asta e...

[Q] (NOOB) Is unlocking the same as rooting

General WP7 question
Im an Android user at present, rooted Desire (gingerbread)
Very much liked the U.I of WP7 when having a quick 5 min' play in an o2 shop
ive not ruled out WP7 for my next phone but know nothing about the state of current Modding for the Devices
is Unlocking the same as Rooting ? ie Custom Roms, rooted only apps, framework tweaks etc
if not, how is it different? what does it offer ?
Sorry for the potentialy Dumbarse question but im not down with any WP7 info at present
Cheers

we don't have an unlock
the unlock refers to the ability to sideload programs and not go through windows marketplace using a windeveloper hack from chevron...
The unlock is not related to custom roms - imho you really don't need them nearly as much on windows phone 7. One thing you have to realize about custom roms is that while you're given an os on a device, it doesn't work out of the box. Both windows mobile and android suffered from this and a custom rom was necessary to just get some basic things to function more smoothly to create a better experience.
Windows phone deviates from that because all you have to do is turn it on and most of the UX/UI components work out of the box and creates an unbelievable experience. So at the current state, the only custom rom I have seen is on the hd7 and mozart, and those are rom transplants by ansar - not completely the same as a custom rom.
If you think you need a custom rom to live by, don't get windows phone. But if you truly want to try an OS that just works and works well, I suggest testing the device. You won't go back to android after you test the device.

Great respose
thanks for the info
For sure, i do love my Android but i find that i keep on changing stuff for not much other reason than i just can.
As mentioned, i was indeed impressed with the UI on the phone i tried...if only briefly
its a shame i couldnt get one to trial for a month to see how i got along with it, thats life i guess
i might well take the plunge on WP7 as my current contract runs out at the end of march
One or two last thing to anybody that cares to respond
so stuff like email and SMS/MMS, are you locked in to using the Out of the box app/client or are there others available in the Market ? ....indeed, you might not need to use anything different form the preloaded stuff, im just curious
and one last thing, Anyone having moved from android to WP7, you happy? anything you particularly miss ?
thanks for the above answer again
cheers
Chris

InspectorFrost said:
and one last thing, Anyone having moved from android to WP7, you happy? anything you particularly miss ?
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No, at the moment there is only the default built in app for this. However, in a similar vein to the above; there just isn't a need either. The keyboard is awesome (far better than any other - be it Windows Mobile or Android - I've tried) and it's a simple threaded SMS system.
I had Android on my HD2 (so admittedly not a native build). The only things I miss are a couple of the apps (but I can live without them and they'll probably end up having sister apps on WP7 eventually) and the USB functionality (but I know plenty of people here will argue with me over that). Am I happy? Yes! (Small grumble about the update situation, but it's a thousand times better than WM or Android).
Casey

Thanks, Man

the preinstalled sms manager for wp7 has suited my needs really well. It sms...I can see smilies. It's threaded. That's all I really need for my interests.
Now as far as migrating from android, I did but I didn't like android so much. I used it for smsing but that was about it. Android has a plethora of programs to suit user interests, but by in large, many just. plain. suck.
That's not to say that wp7 programs suck, because some do. But in terms of productivity, I found a bit more with windows phone. I think the only program I really REALLY miss is skyscape because I am a clinical psych student and I use that on a daily basis. Adjusting to no skyscape is horrible

and one last thing, Anyone having moved from android to WP7, you happy? anything you particularly miss ?
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I moved from android, and while I do miss some functionality (that will come in time with updates), overall I'm very happy. The UI is vastly superior, and feels like a more polished professional product as opposed to one stitched together, if that makes sense. Android was very functional, but never felt totally complete in its design. This led to a less than great overall interaction experience. But I will reiterate; the functionality/settings options are VERY BASIC SO FAR.
wp7 not only feels more solid, but you can see the quality of app design already far surpass anything on Android. The way you flow through information is quite refreshing to the linear/up-down style based on computer desktops we are used to. Email & Music player are also bar none on mobile platforms in my opinion. Still a few things need to be added for outlook support, but overall I am very impressed with these two features.
You will also notice that its the only other platform with the responsiveness that iOS has. Feels very fluid, and there is no delay in pinch to zoom features on maps/browser ect. The voice commands are very good as well (voice to open apps, browse, call people ect).
Social integration of Facebook (and twitter come Mango update later this year) is top notch. No other platform has anything like this and its really handy. I don't even use Facebook much, but I thoroughly enjoy how easy it is to catch up on people's doings and get back to more important tasks.
Things I miss are more in depth functionality and settings choices. I miss the official google voice app, custom sms/mms apps & IM apps. I also miss smart dialing, which most smart phones come with as standard. Smart dialing will no doubt be incorporated in an update, but this should have been done from the get go imo. Once we get socket support later this year, IM and sms app replacements will come. Most of the needed apps are available, from shazam to netflix to news apps to flixster to translators ect. The google voice and smart dialing features are the big ones for me. GoVoice works pretty good for Google Voice access, but since no socket support yet, the notifications have to be pushed from a 3rd party server.
There are more apps available on Android, but just like when I was on Android and the iPhone had more apps, thats not all that matters. There are some you will miss, but I can do without most of them until more developers come over the wp7.
As far as games go, the quality is beyond both Android and the iPhone in my opinion. However, there aren't nearly as many available (yet). You are seeing more and more big time developers either making, or announcing movement over the wp7 though so this will quickly change. The quality of the xbox live games is great, and the platform is definitely designed to also be a future gaming powerhouse. I can't wait till I can control my windows media center and xbox/kinect with my phone.
wp7 is in its early stages so just be ready to accept that the tinkering you are used to will be much more limited here, as will the overall control options you have. But you will quickly learn that the base structure of this platform is beyond what the others deliver (of coarse whether you like the UI is preference), and as this platform matures, the quality of the interface & app development and user interaction will be much more pleasant than what Android offered(s).
As far as unlocking, you CAN still unlock with the chevron program. This allows you to tinker with the registry to change the look/colors of the UI, control of volumes ect and of coarse enables things like file managers & custom ringtones. Head to www.touchxperience.com to see what the main phone manager for unlocked phones is up to.
For day to day use, my wp7 is more appealing to me (even with some missing functionality). Its hard to go back to the style of layout that iOS, Android ect all have in common; although I do keep my N1 around for times when I need the hotspot feature.

dtboos said:
Social integration of Facebook (and twitter come NoDo update in the next week) is top notch. No other platform has anything like this and its really handy. I don't even use Facebook much, but I thoroughly enjoy how easy it is to catch up on people's doings and get back to more important tasks.
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just a correction here, twitter integration is coming in the mango update, not the NoDo update.

The Gate Keeper said:
just a correction here, twitter integration is coming in the mango update, not the NoDo update.
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I stand corrected.

@dtboos
Great post, thank you

All the above sounds like stuff i can deal with
Shazam...a quality app that i use tons, glad thats there
facebook im not on so im not bothered with that, and as for Mail/sms clients, i can live with stock so long as the work well
The Major sticking point at the moment for me (having dug around the net a little) is the API limitations that dont seem to allow for Messengers, im a big fan of Whatsapp and (out of choice) wouldnt really wanna be without it.
Hope MS are going to amend this in the (very) near future, as im sure this will persuade a raft of people on to their platform
Again, thanks for the above posts, most informative
Cheers
Chris

InspectorFrost said:
All the above sounds like stuff i can deal with
Shazam...a quality app that i use tons, glad thats there
facebook im not on so im not bothered with that, and as for Mail/sms clients, i can live with stock so long as the work well
The Major sticking point at the moment for me (having dug around the net a little) is the API limitations that dont seem to allow for Messengers, im a big fan of Whatsapp and (out of choice) wouldnt really wanna be without it.
Hope MS are going to amend this in the (very) near future, as im sure this will persuade a raft of people on to their platform
Again, thanks for the above posts, most informative
Cheers
Chris
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I don't have a link available right now, but I remember an interview with one of the head developers on wp7 saying that socket support is #2 or 3 on the developer requested features list, and they will definitely be implementing this sooner rather than later.
They know socket support is wanted and needed, and with that will come IM clients ect.

yea, i believe we will be hearing about socket support at the MIX 2011 conference.