In my attempt to get the most out of my WM powered device (HD2) i could not help realizing that windows mobile is not among the targets of big software names like Yahoo, Skype, Fring, Google and what's more intereseting not even by Microsoft...
Take for exemple Google... it has it's Android... and the thing that it is best at is integrating anything google related into android phones: mail, calendar, contacts, photos, maps... you name it.... and they do this out of the box... and with the best user experience keeping the looks of the web based counterparts...
Yahoo and Skype... they both have IM clients for Android, Iphone, Symbian, Blackberry... but NOT windows mobile... WHY?...
Fring is perfect with anything but WM
Iphone and Android are so new on the market yet everybody supports it asap.
As for Microsoft you would've expected at least to integrate their own apps into windows phones... but they don't... They have the live app wich integrates messenger, contacts and mail... but not in the best way... I would've liked to see something to directly make a space entry from your phone's interface, to directly publish a photo or to send a file to skydrive... to have calendar synced at its full web potential... i know you have the exchange emulation like google but what about alternate calendars...
Bing is another thing... we have to install it your self instead of beeing fully integrated into your windows phone....
So the question is how come WM lost terrain being that it is the oldest on the market and has such a computing power in support of it (I guess we all agree that MS is a giant)?....
WM was designed for business, hence why it has excellent integration with exchange email/calendar/contacts/etc. It also has the PDA version of office built in.
Skype works on WM6.5, there's a thread on it in the HD2 section.
You can set up your yahoo/google/hotmail accounts in seconds on it.
MS were slow (and looking at WP7 they're going backwards) on the mobile market, back when they started the market was for pocket PCs, people wanted a version of their desktop computer which could be carried in their hand, so making the interface similar was what people were after.
They didn't consider the consumer market really and got complacent. WM did the job it was designed for, which most of their customers wanted, so why change?
Then the mobile market took off, other manufacturers such as HTC took advantage of the business design of WM and created user interfaces such as TF3D/Sense. SPB have also created an excellent interface called Mobile Shell 3.5, I recommend installing the trial version and giving it a go.
MS didn't have much in the way of a development team behind WM, there was no perceived need, and it has no "cool" image to go with it, so there's a small market share, hence the lack of "Times Online" type apps for it while the iPhone is supported.
Why on earth would you want to install Bing though?
xaccers said:
WM was designed for business, hence why it has excellent integration with exchange email/calendar/contacts/etc. It also has the PDA version of office built in.
Skype works on WM6.5, there's a thread on it in the HD2 section.
You can set up your yahoo/google/hotmail accounts in seconds on it.
MS were slow (and looking at WP7 they're going backwards) on the mobile market, back when they started the market was for pocket PCs, people wanted a version of their desktop computer which could be carried in their hand, so making the interface similar was what people were after.
They didn't consider the consumer market really and got complacent. WM did the job it was designed for, which most of their customers wanted, so why change?
Then the mobile market took off, other manufacturers such as HTC took advantage of the business design of WM and created user interfaces such as TF3D/Sense. SPB have also created an excellent interface called Mobile Shell 3.5, I recommend installing the trial version and giving it a go.
MS didn't have much in the way of a development team behind WM, there was no perceived need, and it has no "cool" image to go with it, so there's a small market share, hence the lack of "Times Online" type apps for it while the iPhone is supported.
Why on earth would you want to install Bing though?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly why Microsoft has utterly failed in the mobile space. People DO NOT want their desktop PC in their pocket. They just want a subset of their desktop, plus all the advantages that a mobile device offers. Apps, location awareness, always-on connectivity, etc. Nobody cares if you can edit a spreadsheet on your phone. Why would you want to do this in the first place?
Microsoft has failed to deliver anything "new" to the mobile space, and watched Google and Apple completely dominate the smartphone market. And Windows Phone 7? Another doomed failure from Redmond. It took them 4 years to copy Apple. Even RIM has better developer support than Microsoft...
Speaking of RIM, I think it's safe to say that Windows Mobile as a business platform has been a failure since the monochrome Blackberry days. RIM has been dominating there for quite a while.
So where is it that Windows Mobile fits in? Another me-too iPhone wanna be, or maybe the #2 or #3 business-oriented smart-phone OS? Meh...
xaccers said:
Why on earth would you want to install Bing though?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't! but it was a clear example of not integrating even their own software out of the box...
as for the rest... one of the sides of the question was why the others are not considering WM as a viable platform to deliver their products?... all WM just have to find third party apps or "workarrounds" for them to work...
ccezar2004 said:
one of the sides of the question was why the others are not considering WM as a viable platform to deliver their products?... all WM just have to find third party apps or "workarrounds" for them to work...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the funny part:
Microsoft tried to BRIBE iPhone developers to port their apps for Windows Mobile. The result? Most said "go screw, your platform sucks."
That pretty much sums it up... They can't even get people working on Windows Mobile by paying them. .NET is a decent foundation, but development for a mobile device requires the right tools for the job. Plus, being 4 years behind the curve, it's going to be hard for M$ to get critical mass at this point.
The shocking thing is, they already have a successful product with a healthy developer community: The X-Box. Why they didn't look to that team for inspiration is beyond me...
Honestly, they should just give up. Most former WM people I know switched to Android long ago. I don't see any reviewers or users tripping over themselves to get the next Microsoft phone like they do for the next iPhone, Blackberry, Android, etc. Same goes for Zune and numerous other Microsoft train wrecks.
Windows Phone 7 will turn out to be just as lackluster as 6.5 - which is a good thing, because Android could use a few more users
HamNCheese said:
This is exactly why Microsoft has utterly failed in the mobile space. People DO NOT want their desktop PC in their pocket. They just want a subset of their desktop, plus all the advantages that a mobile device offers. Apps, location awareness, always-on connectivity, etc. Nobody cares if you can edit a spreadsheet on your phone. Why would you want to do this in the first place?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I said "wanted" although many, including myself, still do.
It's the reason why WM is being renamed WMC rather than being dropped, because there are so many users out there who require a hand held versatile computer and WM does that job exceptionally well.
White collar business users need something well established which can edit office documents, seamlessly and reliably sync with their email system. They also want something flashy with an impressive screen. WM answers these needs perfectly.
The great unwashed want just the things you mentioned, in a handset which wows their friends and gains them kudos. WM can wow people, but it will never have the "coolness" of an iPhone, nor will android.
Will we see another WM phone? There's talk of a business version of WP7 which may be close but most likely not as good. Perhaps if when WP7 goes the way of Kin they'll sack the whole team and go back to WM.
RIM have a headstart on office phones because they answered a need which MS ignored, as they were too into letting manufacturers decide what the devices should be. Like the iPhone, most people/businesses go with RIM not because it's the most suitable for their needs, but because other people use it. Blackberrys are clunky, unreliable, awkward to use and a PITA to support.
xaccers said:
I said "wanted" although many, including myself, still do.
It's the reason why WM is being renamed WMC rather than being dropped, because there are so many users out there who require a hand held versatile computer and WM does that job exceptionally well.
White collar business users need something well established which can edit office documents, seamlessly and reliably sync with their email system. They also want something flashy with an impressive screen. WM answers these needs perfectly.
The great unwashed want just the things you mentioned, in a handset which wows their friends and gains them kudos. WM can wow people, but it will never have the "coolness" of an iPhone, nor will android.
Will we see another WM phone? There's talk of a business version of WP7 which may be close but most likely not as good. Perhaps if when WP7 goes the way of Kin they'll sack the whole team and go back to WM.
RIM have a headstart on office phones because they answered a need which MS ignored, as they were too into letting manufacturers decide what the devices should be. Like the iPhone, most people/businesses go with RIM not because it's the most suitable for their needs, but because other people use it. Blackberrys are clunky, unreliable, awkward to use and a PITA to support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So let me get this straight... Android, which is out-selling the iPhone at the moment, has failed to "wow" users? And Windows Phone 7 will "wow' who?
If RIM is beating them on Business applications, and the iPhone is killing them on "coolness" - how does Windows Mobile stand a chance?
Frankly, Roz Ho (and that whole team) should be fired. The whole Project Pink / Kin debacle shows exactly how little they understand the mobile market. The acquisition of Danger was one of the worst moves in the long run - all it did was bring pain and suffering to the employees and users.
HamNCheese said:
So let me get this straight... Android, which is out-selling the iPhone at the moment, has failed to "wow" users? And Windows Phone 7 will "wow' who?
If RIM is beating them on Business applications, and the iPhone is killing them on "coolness" - how does Windows Mobile stand a chance?
Frankly, Roz Ho (and that whole team) should be fired. The whole Project Pink / Kin debacle shows exactly how little they understand the mobile market. The acquisition of Danger was one of the worst moves in the long run - all it did was bring pain and suffering to the employees and users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say android didn't "wow" users, I said it won't have the "coolness" of an iPhone. iPhone is more a fashion item than a smartphone for most people, Apple have spent an absolute fortune building that "cool" image of their products. We know they suck, and android/WM is more customisable/better features/functions, but the great unwashed don't care about that, they just want to be able to show they're "cool" (lame) because they have an iPhone. Someone's already posted elsewhere that his aunt assumed his phone wasn't very good because it wasn't an iPhone.
Android, being an OS and in a similar way to WM, isn't the phone. The combination of the OS and the hardware makes a great phone, such as WM6.5 and the HD2, or the android equivalent. Put the OS on a crappy phone and it's not going to wow anyone. Android have been successful because they have the apps/games that non-sheep want, and its available on cheap phones. I hope they continue to eat away at Apple's share of the market, and continue to improve rather than end up taking a backwards step and following Apple/WP7. Of course, history is littered with the remains of better products which just haven't sold enough (betamax, hydropnumatic suspension, HD-DVD, Amy Studt albums).
RIM are only beating WM through their business model. Once a company has started using BES it's pretty much trapped, it doesn't make financial sense to change, they've paid for the hardware and the licences so they might as well keep using them even if there's a more reliable, functional and cheaper alternative.
In companies, in the UK at least, most people responsible for IT expenditure turn to external companies for advice or decide because they've read something in a magazine that their competitor is using.
External IT companies will have their own preferences for what they suggest; profitability, previous experience, acceptability to business.
Take one of the companies I support who've had years of trouble with blackberrys, they've recently changed network because they were fed up with the handset problems. They've got 40 handsets, that's a lot of money invested in something which often doesn't work. They're still having problems, ironically with the senior managers' handsets which isn't going down well. The users with their own WM handsets set up to sync with the exchange server have never had a problem. Until I arrived on the scene they had no idea there were alternatives.
MS have not pushed the abilities of WM, that's been their biggest failing. They've never acted like they take their handheld OSs seriously. Instead they concentrated on the more lucrative desktop and server business.
At the moment all my bile is being saved for Ray Ozzie (especially after finding out he's the asshat behind Lotus Notes) so I can't spare any for Roz (besides, she's kinda cute).
W7 seems to wow no one of any worth. It looks like it was designed by a new parent after buying their kid duplo bricks
I suppose it could be argued that some of us a "wowed" as to how bad it is.
This thread is degenerating into something else... Therefore I'm closing it.
Message to the OP... Chiar trebuie sa intrebi de ce ? Nu e clar ca Iphone si Android domnia marketu' deacum ? Noi, aici la xda, ne tinem cu dintzii de o epava care se scufunda, dar.. asta e...
Related
Participating in a head-to-head against Blackberry & iPhone - seeking their weakness!
Hi Everyone,
This Friday, I am going to be participating in a head-to-head panel discussion with a Blackberry expert and an iPhone expert. It is taking place at a Louisville Microsoft User Group meeting. I will be representing Windows Mobile in this "throwdown".
I have been working to compile information about the Blackberry and the iPhone, namely things that are a weakness when compared to Windows Mobile. I know they will both have a plethora of things to throw at me (how complicated Windows Mobile is to operate, blah blah blah...), so I want to be as prepared as possible to point out their shortcomings.
I read the really nice writeup from Menneisyys on the browser comparison, so I know the iPhone guy is going to be highlighting the Safari browser superiority. That article reminded me of some good talking points about what some of the WM browsers offer that Safari doesn't.
Looking for any input anyone might have, so I can add it to my list of talking points! No need to write a novel - you can just bullet items...
Thanks in advance for any armament you can provide!
Matt Coddington
Windows Mobile Louisville
Just a few here. I don't think the iphone can do any of these but modern wm devices can.
* copy & paste text in browser, easily done in opera 9.5, not possible on iphone I believe.
* Opera mobile have built-in download manager, download any file...
* 3G Video calling.
* Send stuff to friends via bluetooth (also recieve of course).
* Taking decent photos with a 3 mp & up built-in autofocus camera, the 2 mp fixed focus camera in the iphone is a joke.
* Record video at 30 fps.
* Browse mapped folders on your network with advanced filemanagers like Resco Explorer & etc.
* Draw nice artwork with advanced photo editing softwares like Pocket Artist.
* If you don't like the built in SIP, install another one. (Though I must admit the one in the iphone is really nice as it is.)
* Completely change the way your phone works and looks by customizing everything.
* Edit the registry to change file associations, like clicking on a Divx video automatically opens in Coreplayer for an example.
Sorry I'm to tired to go on with this list I think I would have to stay up all night if I should finish it.
user replaceable battery.
you have the choice between quite a few devices.
josefcrist said:
user replaceable battery.
you have the choice between quite a few devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately the BB does both of those. I will be very surprised if the BB guy doesn't sing the security aspects of the device, and as a BB Admin they are damn good. That said I have added some apps to my Trinity to give me some of that security back.
The BBs strengths is its weakness, it was designed as a secure platform for email first and everything has been added afterwards, WM had the basics in from the beginning and they have all been tweaked as a whole.
Sorry to not sound more positive about WM even though i have one myself which i wouldn't change for a BB.
deedee said:
Unfortunately the BB does both of those. I will be very surprised if the BB guy doesn't sing the security aspects of the device, and as a BB Admin they are damn good. That said I have added some apps to my Trinity to give me some of that security back.
The BBs strengths is its weakness, it was designed as a secure platform for email first and everything has been added afterwards, WM had the basics in from the beginning and they have all been tweaked as a whole.
Sorry to not sound more positive about WM even though i have one myself which i wouldn't change for a BB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
windows mobile has been around forever and has more apps. windows mobile is more open.
Agree completely, i was just lobbing up some of the arguments the BB guy may come up with , forewarned is forearmed so to speak. i may be a BB Admin but i am a commited WM user myself.
I appreciate everyone's input thus far! It will be an interesting discussion Friday, that's for sure! I fully expect for it to be civil, yet it will be good for me to have qualitative info on the competition.
It will be interesting to see what direction the conversation will go. Certain things are not possible on the iPhone without jailbreaking it, so if the iPhone guy tries to go there, he will be negating the argument that the iPhone just works! The average user is not going to risk jailbreaking their device (or even want to try regardless of risk because they have no clue!).
So, if we go down the road of tweaking devices like most geeks would do (and not the general public), I think that WM wins out for reasons already mentioned - it's been around a long time, and great sites like XDA-Developers create a resource that allows you to tweak your WM device to your heart's content!
Matt
Windows Mobile Louisville
MultiMatt said:
I appreciate everyone's input thus far! It will be an interesting discussion Friday, that's for sure! I fully expect for it to be civil, yet it will be good for me to have qualitative info on the competition.
It will be interesting to see what direction the conversation will go. Certain things are not possible on the iPhone without jailbreaking it, so if the iPhone guy tries to go there, he will be negating the argument that the iPhone just works! The average user is not going to risk jailbreaking their device (or even want to try regardless of risk because they have no clue!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well to be brutally honest the only real arguments that you have are 1 and 4 of the owziee's post.
the iphone guy will try to whoop your ass on the multimedia aspects of the device, multi touch, and a useful accelerometer and the ease of obtaining applications on a stock device.
When you start to talk about 'Tweaking" you have already conceded that WM is less accessible than the other 2 OS in its stock form, your iphone buddy could remind you that jailbreaking is to iphone what custom roms are to WM, they both add value to your device.
One More thing i'd line to point out here is that contrary to your belief, jailbreaking is in fact a piece of cake.
fyi
After you jailbreak an iphone you can have copy and paste in the browser after you install the c&p program.
FLowness of the interface
Can some one comment on the flowness of the interface between iphone and HTC HD
I have used WM and iphone but the flowness of the interface of WM comes no where near that of iphone. Also relatively iphone is much more faster, even with many app installed ( including jail broken ones) .
Forgetting all other features how does both these platforms compare in this feature
I love my QWERTY keyboards, BB has it, but iPhone doesn't.
fallenczar said:
your iphone buddy could remind you that jailbreaking is to iphone what custom roms are to WM, they both add value to your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But WM ROM upgrades don't die as soon as the manufacturer releases an update for the device - you're not forced to upgrade to a version that de-jailbreaks your phone. As far as I know, this _is_ the case on the iPhone...
Also, a WM ROM upgrade is not needed to run certain software (unless you're trying to install a WM6 only program on WM5), or to get certain functions - you can install most software and/or functions with simple cab files or installers on the stock ROMs without problems at all.
MultiMatt said:
I read the really nice writeup from Menneisyys on the browser comparison, so I know the iPhone guy is going to be highlighting the Safari browser superiority. That article reminded me of some good talking points about what some of the WM browsers offer that Safari doesn't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks
Just tell the folks "as soon as Windows Mobile manufacturers start producing devices with capacitive screens, the advantage of browsing the Web on the iPhone (assuming running the latest Opera Mobile on Windows Mobile) will be no more"
fallenczar said:
Well to be brutally honest...
...the iphone guy will try to whoop your ass on the multimedia aspects of the device, multi touch, and a useful accelerometer and the ease of obtaining applications on a stock device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are absolutely correct, and I anticipate that. Given that the iPhone is an iPod with a phone attached, I would have to have a Zune with a phone attached to even come close on the multimedia aspects. I'm prepared to acknowledge that iPhone has an advantage there...
fallenczar said:
When you start to talk about 'Tweaking" you have already conceded that WM is less accessible than the other 2 OS in its stock form, your iphone buddy could remind you that jailbreaking is to iphone what custom roms are to WM, they both add value to your device...
...One more thing i'd line to point out here is that contrary to your belief, jailbreaking is in fact a piece of cake.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, so jailbreaking might not be that hard, but let's consider the audience here. Let's go with the common denominator, the average Joe (Joe the Plummer! Ha! Ha!). Regardless of how easy techy people might think it is, the average person has no interest in screwing with their warranty and doing such a thing to their several hundred dollar phone. I know several people here at work who have iPhones and 1.) they have no idea what jailbreaking is, and 2.) once I told them what it would do, they expressed no interest in doing such a thing. Similar to the multitudes of Windows Phone users that I know - the majority of them are not interested in changing out their ROM unless it comes from the carrier.
My point being, I will argue that we need to keep custom ROMS and Jailbreaking out of it, and discuss what can be done without those in the discussion! How does that change the playing field?!
bemymonkey said:
But WM ROM upgrades don't die as soon as the manufacturer releases an update for the device - you're not forced to upgrade to a version that de-jailbreaks your phone. As far as I know, this _is_ the case on the iPhone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All new iPhone upgrades are cracked in, in most cases, days.
The biggest advantage of WM is the sheer number of devices it comes on. You can buy a phone that fits your needs rather than compromising. Want a keyboard? no problem. Want a HUGE screen? no problem. Want a tiny screen on a tiny device? no problem! Whatever you could wan't has probably already been made.
Just don't mention that for the new versions of WM, Microsoft is trying to do away with that.
The iphone isn't better for multimedia.... Only when running games and certain apps on the device itself, otherwise it sucks in comparision when it comes to the hardware.
Cameras, Photos, Video recording quality + video calls etc + wm devices more often have better quality displays (higher resolution) & bigger when it comes to the Touch HD. Ok, iphone have multitouch but personally I don't care about it...
Menneisyys said:
All new iPhone upgrades are cracked in, in most cases, days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But as far as I know, you can't choose _not_ to upgrade, can you?
On WM you can just keep your old ROM as long as you're satisfied with it...
I think the iPhone's app store is both a strength and a weakness in its case.
Filtering apps and games for quality is a great way to make sure the phone "just works" for all users. If this is all that Apple did, the only argument against it would be arbitrary. However, Apple is also denying apps they deem "too similar" to Apple apps and those they feel are in bad taste. So if someone (say Opera) makes a better browser, too bad you have Safari for that. And if you want a fart-noise generator, it depends on if it is found to be "offensive" by some anonymous panel.
Also, comparing a jail-broken iphone to a stock (under warranty) windows phone is apples to oranges imo.
more iphone info for you guys
You can choose not to update the firmware on the iphone. You can turn the feature off in itunes that trys to update and if it asks you can simply hit no. And to my knowledge you can put on older firmwares (like 2.0 instead of 2.1) after you updated if you like a previous version.
This is a serious question although I appreciate it could be taken as a troll.
Should Microsoft start again with their mobile OS? I know why they have kept compatability with older software but I personally think this is hurting them more than throwing away backwards compatability.
Look at the iPhone - that started from scratch and has grown to prominence without any back catalog of software.
Cheers, Rob.
Looks like its beginning to reach game-over stauts for M$ IMO. It feels like it did when Palm went down. Sorry to say, but I'm beginning my investigation into Android.
Exchange Server
Hi all
I use an exchange server provider and I find it's features really useful, not just on my mobile, but in MS Outlook 2007, in fact much more so on the PC. Because there are few equivalent services that I can get for the same price that would be compatible with both PC software and a mobile device, I am essentially tied to Microsoft products for the time being. MS have done very well at preventing 3rd party PIM clients accessing the full services of an exchange server.
Google are in the process of offering a full exchange service via Google Sync. If they are successful in this (which they clearly will be) then they are really only one step away from offering their own exchange type server which will be natively compatible with?? Android of course.
I would consider switching from WM to another OS if:
1. That OS could access the full services based on an MS Exchange server.
OR
2. There were comparable alternatives to a remote MS Exchange server system which could be accessed from the device.
In fact, Windows Mobile 6.5 can't access all the features of an Exchange server (e.g. being able to set specific Follow up reminder dates & times for emails and viewing other users calendars, etc.). So actually, an alternative system doesn't need to beat MS Outlook, it just needs to beat the feature limited WM 6.5 Pocket Outlook.
Sorry for the ramble but I can't see many large companies switching to Android if their employees can't accept a meeting request OTA!
In answer to the original question, yes, MS REALLY should start again with Windows Mobile and this time make sure users are able to access all the features of an MS exchange server OTA.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking
From what I've read on the developers Blogs the WM7 framework is entirely different to 6x.. so most of them are concentrating on this.. appararently the performance is at least doubled (this wasn't an MS fanboy). I do assume though that MS will do all they can to be backwards compatible .. the howl that happened on Palm will be nothing as to the reaction should MS completely leave their userbase high & dry. Yes Apple scored well by timing their entry into the market perfectly.. but they risk being trapped in exactly the same way by advances in technology.
I don't think it's game over in any direction just yet.. MS simply dosn't give up and there is absolutely nothing similar in the way Palm ran itself into the ground.. Obviuosly the media is a huge cheerleasder for both Google & Apple - for some reason believing these guys are in some way cool, uncommerical, funloving dudes who are only interested in the love..
look guys, some years passed by, and ONLY thing m$ wants to say to us is:
let's make smartphones, AGAIN.
pda's as mobile comps are DEAD.
f your 6.5 and rich kids.
f android and their feeble ****oozas.
xoen / nothin
Sleuth255 said:
Looks like its beginning to reach game-over stauts for M$ IMO. It feels like it did when Palm went down. Sorry to say, but I'm beginning my investigation into Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
omg, sleuth is going over to the dark side
btw, which droid model are you looking at?
Personally, i love WM
I agree with Andrew-in-woking. I love the ability to sync my contacts, notes, calender, music, photos, videos, and documents both ways with my computer and my phone. And, the thing I've been telling everyone is that devices supported by a company will work best with other devices supported by the same company. I've been using windows on all of my computers since I can remember, and I will only have the best phone experience if I get a windows powered phone, which would provide the best connectivity with my computer. It doesn't make sense to get an Iphone, unless you have an apple computer, in my eyes. Same with every other device. Get android if you have other devices powered by google os. Same with Samsung, sony, etc. If you start connecting devices across different companies, it will only lead to more problems, reducing the quality of your experience with that device. Those are my 2 cents.
funny how everybody is complain about windows mobile compares to iphone.
y havnt nobody complaining about crackberry to iphone?
not everybody buy a windows mobile phone and use it as a toy (iphone)
i love my Acer neotouch S200 with 1G cpu with custom 6.5 rom 23506, i'm not sure if i still want an android phone. oh, the only reason i want android phone is because of google gps navigator.
I like windows mobile the way it is, when it become's like an iphone, there is no point in using it anymore.
I'm not saying anything can't be improved, just that if it interface's like an iphone, you might as well buy an iphone which is what I suspect most people are talking about when comparing them.
Say goodbye to the usefulness of your high resolution screen's while using a child and finger friendly interface....massive icon's, text, menu's, spend half your time zooming in and out...panning etc.
andrew-in-woking said:
That OS could access the full services based on an MS Exchange server.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't this becoming a non-problem with better browsers? Outlook web access is now a very feature rich JavaScript based client - won't that run from anywhere?
Cheers, Rob.
I'm using Microsoft OS for about 15-20 years. First DOS, later Windows, and in the meanwhile also WM.
I don't need to sync anything between PC and phone but I want a "full" OS, you can customize whatever you want, and I love my Win32 API. On the IPhone and Android you don't even have a file explorer without downloading an extra app right? Yes I know "you can get an App for everything." And sure IPhone is comfortable and user friendly. But it's like that because it's a consumer device and being that it's probably better than WM. But actually WM is not only a toy (for people who don't feel comfortable with the more tech stuff) - it's an OS.
I don't really understand all the bad talking about WM recently. I agree using the GUI without a stylus is a pain in the ass but as I can see more and more parts of the OS are being updated with each new 6.5 build. And what's the deal about it.... it's only the f.... GUI!!!
Microsoft won't restart at all. Their OS will go and and on just like their desktop versions did. Remember all the talking back then. OS/2 kills Windows, MAC kills Windows.... IMO nothing of that happened at all.
MS over?
Don't believe the hype Sleuth.
HTC on windows rules.
Good to see you here.
Really appreciated your uc work on my HD.
New rom from Miri, uc'ed all my settings & apps.
Hours of fun.
100,000 apps for the iPhone in it's short life. 18,000 in all of WinMo's existence. 50K on Android already. M$ had a major chance when it buried Palm but it took the iPhone to bring real innovation back. Geezuz.
WinMo market share was cut in half in the last year. M$ is no longer considered a contender in the space dominated by iPhone, RIM, Nokia and now Android.
I too like the common api. But I've seen iPhone apps that blow my socks off. Hopefully, HTC will release a killer platform for android. I need capacitive, rez and battery life.
Moto Droid is the leader here now but it can't touch HTC keyboards. Lots of room for HTC to catch up. But android 2.0 on that very same droid can turn off bt and fire up your wifi profile when you walk into the door based on its continuously updated positional awareness. Weather works the same way, using wunderground school installations from a known database to give you local weather down to the exact temp where you are standing. You can use the camera to scan a bar code in a supermarket and it'll leverage Google's claim to fame and return info/best pricing on the web for the same item.
Meanwhile, m$ can't even make a decent marketplace. They are hobbled by feature drift and don't have a security clue (see chainfire's 2hr hack just to prove the point).
I wish it were otherwise but I've seen this all before...
Phonebook
munrobasher said:
Isn't this becoming a non-problem with better browsers? Outlook web access is now a very feature rich JavaScript based client - won't that run from anywhere?
Cheers, Rob.
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Hi Rob
You make a good point for mail and tasks but it's not quite the same as dialing directly from your cnmtacts.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking
Is this actually an issue of the OS itself? It's just market strategies and modern GUI experiences. With a good kernel (like we have with WM) it's no problem to add such features on top of it (if you just actually do it), but if you have limited kernel functionality but with the "good" GUI things on top it's harder to change the OS underneath it. I have no clue about Android yet but on the IPhone you can't even run background processes. Is Android just as flexible as the Windows kernel architecture? From what I heard I assume it's not, otherwise please proove me wrong.
The problem as you can tell it is more like Microsoft didn't care a lot about WM during the last couple years and especially HTC did what MS didn't, and now they need their time to catch up on their competitors again. But of course I'm also hoping they're doing fine with WM 7. I like the road they are going with 6.5 and if WM 7 is just like the new killer OS we're all waiting for (Windows 7 desktop isn't too bad neither right?) then why do you need your Apple and Google anymore???
FTTB, I'll probably get a Tilt 2 for hardware reasons. The iPhone is too restrictive for my tweaking tastes (although being a part of the jailbreak community would be fun) and no killer hardware for Android exists yet.
m$ needs a wake-up call. The mobile world is passing it by. This time next year (when I need another new gizmo) will be interesting. My predictions go with Android because Google has the information. Gathering it is what they do. Heck, the current navigation app on Android leverages the Google maps data for for actual image based turn by turn instruction. Impressive and always up to date.
WP 7 features are leaking all over the net. Let me list them :
· WP7 will be announced at MWC, and there will be a demo, but this will be just the UX
· MIX will have specific developement focus sessions on WP7
· WP7 supports both Sliverlight (out of browser) and XNA
· Silverlight is version 3.0, with elements of 4.0 plus mobile specific features such as sensors etc
· XNA apps can be developed using XNA GameStudio 3.1
· SL apps developed using Expression Blend 3.x and VS2010
· MS will release a mobile version of VS / Expression which will be free, and VS2010 / Expression Pro will have a free add-on
· WP7 will have an equivalent of .NET CF embedded into SL, but no SQL.
· WP7 will have isolated storage which is accessible using LINQ
· The UX of WP7 is based upon a theme called “METRO” and is similar to Zune HD, but with a completely new “Start” screen.
· No multi-tasking (applications will pause when in the background, however they will support notifications using the MS Push Notifications environment)
· No .NET CF backwards compatibility, however a proportion of the data and business logic in .NET CF could be ported
· MS were confident to have devices ready for Sep 2010
· No MS manufactured device, however much tighter control of manufactring process, so as an example each device has a 3D processing chipset, and MS provide all of the device drivers. So no platform builder. This enables OTA updates and simplified model for ODM’s
· Marketplace will support buy and try before you buy, as well as an API
· ODM / OEM will not be able to modify the “Start” screen, so no more HTC Sense / TouchFlo etc.
· MS are actually ahead of schedule which will surprise the analysts / journalists
· Browsing experience is currently faster / better than iPhone 3G, and they are aiming towards 3GS.
· Browser is based upon desktop IE7 codebase, but with some IE8 functionality
· No in browser Flash or SL
· WP7 has full integration with XBOX Live, and ability to purchase games
· WP7 will use the Zune software for music, videos, photos sync
· WP7 only supports app installation through service based delivery i.e. marketplace, so no side-loading
· MS will provide a hosted push notifications environment
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[Source]
While this might disappoint most but I for one am really happy to see that Microsoft is finally taking this seriously and has worked on WM7 from ground up!
Finally we will be able to get the User Experience comparable to iPhone/Android! Xbox Live and Zune integration sounds totally awesome!
Well this would be the media edition of the phone.... and all the OEM's will sport the 'professional' version of the phone...makes sense.
Still that won't make any Extreme Changes. The basic UI will remain the same. I feel there won't be any major differences User Interface wise between Windows Mobile 7 versions...they've already disallowed 3rd Party UI!
Im afraid your wrong . HTC have already said they will continue supporting Sense 3D on WinMo7, now they wouldnt have been able to do that if MS is going to lock down the UI.
I think/heard there will be 2 versions of the OS, the zune version which is what you see above (this will run on MS hardware, pretty much like the zune) and all the OEM's such as HTC, Toshiba, SE, etc etc will run the pro version of the OS which will similar to what we are used to...how different the OS will be in terms of GUI will be interesting to see, i sure hope that the zune version doesnt get all the goodies.
"WP7 only supports app installation through service based delivery i.e. marketplace, so no side-loading"
Does that mean we could not anymore install cab files from xda.dev ?
How far the new OS is going to be customizable is still to be seen. I think they will keep everything closed just like the iPhone and only allow limited modifications.
no multi tasking?... ... ...the point is???
If the above features are true ... Good bye WinMo7
I will go with Android (Or iPhone 4.0?) ...
^Could not wait and have already went over to the dark side...android is very cool best thing I've done!
this looks like some fanboys conspiracy
all windows mobile power (from the users point of view) that its so customizable and like micro computer
if wm7 gonna be kind of an iphone people will prefer the real iphone its perfect in its own limited way...
I can only say, if winmo drops multi-tasking, I'll drop winmo.
Gee. if people want a iPhone they'll get one.
Not everyone may be able to afford a 1ghz processor now, but the future's going to catch up before winmo7 comes out anyway.
tuksedra said:
no multi tasking?... ... ...the point is???
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Think of the pleasure to be got from watching WinMophiles having to admit to iPhonatics that WinMo is now even worse at multi-tasking than the iPhone is! (rotfl)
moooxooom said:
I can only say, if winmo drops multi-tasking, I'll drop winmo.
Gee. if people want a iPhone they'll get one.
Not everyone may be able to afford a 1ghz processor now, but the future's going to catch up before winmo7 comes out anyway.
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x2!!!
Without Multi-Tasking, HTC Sense and not be able to install whatever I want in where I want, I will never buy a new winmo pda phone again...
I'll guess I'll have to go to Android or in the worst case to iPhone
Multi-Tasking would be indeed a absolute no-go. I'm sure, that will never NOT happen.
I hope, you're also in the future allowed to install what you want where you want. I hate these Iphone restrictions. Let's hope, this will not gonna happen for WM.
I think companies are going paranoid... don't understand why many restrictions when on the desktop side u can do whatever u want... because of a majority of dumbs, that don't even know how to shutdown a computer, the rest of us have to suffer of these limitations...
No multi-tasking means I'm sticking with 6.5.3 (or whatever they call it) or going with Android.
Don't they realize that competing with Apple in Apple's arena will only get them smoked PLUS alienate their fanbase? We go to WinMo because we DON'T want iphone os. What we do want is a rebuilt, faster, better WinMo os that is just as customizable as the current os.
Seriously, if they are planning on putting out a winphone os, they are going to lose. period.
fb401 said:
No multi-tasking means I'm sticking with 6.5.3 (or whatever they call it) or going with Android.
Don't they realize that competing with Apple in Apple's arena will only get them smoked PLUS alienate their fanbase? We go to WinMo because we DON'T want iphone os. What we do want is a rebuilt, faster, better WinMo os that is just as customizable as the current os.
Seriously, if they are planning on putting out a winphone os, they are going to lose. period.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said
Maybe they will remove the file manager. If they remove the file manager, the device is no more PDA.
fb401 said:
We go to WinMo because we DON'T want iphone os.
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"We" aren't exactly a mass market, though. There were considerably more iPhones sold in the last 12 months than every single model of Windows Mobile phone put together. (WinMo is currently a distant fourth in the smartphone market behind Symbian, RIM and iPhone, with Android closing). The bulk of those who still buy WinMo phones are corporate customers. If abandoning the needs of a tiny minority of users (i.e. us) will net Microsoft a substantially improved marketshare, you can bet they'll do just that.
Having said that, I'm inclined to view this particular rumour with some suspicion; at the very least, with other rumours persistently claiming that there is more than one version of WM7 in the offing, it certainly makes no sense to assume, at this stage, that every available version will be like this.
sigh..........
I really hope some of this is not true. And I will wait until some formal announcement to make up my mind BUT if true, no multitasking, no user UI customization, no apps installed to sd card, all apps through the Marketplace?? Had I wanted to live in a walled garden I would have already bought an Iphone.
I've been using WinMo PDAs and phones for more years than I care to admit. Maybe it is time to simplify my life and get a dumb phone and swear off tech. Guess I can start carrying around all my passwords written down in a code again in my purse (shades of the 80's here except that I have a bunch more and they are all pretty complicated now- I do love my ewallet). grrrrrrr...............
I never understood it because it seems to contradict itself.
One thing I hear a lot of is how hard it is to program for Windows Mobile devices. That it just isn't developer friendly as long as graphics and commands go. Can't say I know much about this since I'm not a developer.
Still at the same time I see a lot of crapware. By this I mean programs that are just constant repeats of each other and sometimes it's just a crappy do nothing program. Don't get me wrong I know developers take time and work to do what they do, but OMG some of the programs are complete crap. The games are sometimes nothing more than sprites taken from other games with a simple jump/shoot interface added to them. Apps that make fart sounds. 20 apps that schedule tasks. 100 clock apps. 1 millions custom UIs. etc. Constant same things that in the end don't really make the Windows Mobile OS anymore appealing. What confuses me is if programs are really that hard to develop then why are so many people able to create and recreate the crapware that we see nowaday?
I think one of the main reasons is that
1) Windows Mobile has been around for so long, the crap just build up
2) (no idea about this) I'd guess that if you can write a program for Windows, Windows mobile is not that much harder, so a greater number of people know how to write ****ty programs.
The one nice thing about iPhone is the market place is so crap free, though I'd rather have to wade through the crap to find the priceless gems then have someone else decide what I could and could not have on my device.
Moved as not software release.
Even with just reading topic header all that came to my head is least you don't have an iphone as then there's a amazing amount
As someone with experience of what it's like to develop apps for Windows Mobile I can shed a little light on it. One of the problems is what Microsoft provide to developers - called the compact framework - i.e. it's toolkit for building program interfaces. The interfaces it produces are very basic at best, and if you want to do anything clever (e.g. gradients, transparency, iphone style animated menus, image buttons, etc. etc.) you have jump through a lot of hoops.
Developers should be able to concentrate on writing what makes their app good, and not worry about having to make the interface looking good - that should be Microsoft's job. Unfortunately Microsoft have only provided very basic looking stuff. That'll change with windows phone 7 though.
Of course (and to defend Microsoft slightly) the iphone is easier for apple to support developers as it is one phone - whereas windows mobile is multiple screen resolutions, multiple OS versions, different processors, different manufacturers.... etc. Again why Microsoft are moving to a more defined hardware platform with windows phone 7 specs.
But it is possible to right really good/fancy interfaces for windows mobile - I like to think I do - but that's not through any support from Microsoft. To write a fancy animated menu with nice blending of colours and animated zooms and swishing left and right etc. etc. on the iphone takes 5 minutes. To do the equivalent on Windows Mobile took me about a month of writing my own GUI toolkit.
When it comes to games there's no excuse - the fact I can run playstation games such as Tekken 3 on my HD2 shows that it's capable of amazing things. The games companies need to stop shunting rubbish.
Ian
stylez said:
Moved as not software release.
Even with just reading topic header all that came to my head is least you don't have an iphone as then there's a amazing amount
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I'd consider this to be true too, but the only thing I can say is that at least they have a considerable amount of games and apps that are new, newer looking and some more useful than others here. I personally don't like iPhone and own an HD2, but I just notice how useless so many apps are whenever I look through the apps section in Handango, PocketGear and WM Marketplace. Not to mention how outdated most of them are too.
you guys forget that there are alot of windows ce 5 devices still in exsistence and they are still alive and kiking.... sort of...
as for the newer devices i love what they have done with htc hardware... altho the OS updates culd be readialy available to us mortals
as for the crapware.... you can allways uninstall the program or never run it if it came with your phone....
id like to say that the sence ui is mostly a bothersome resorce hog that i shut down every time i hard reset or try to get a rom that dosent have it cooked in, it culd also be considered as crapware....
Hello...
I come from old school Windows Mobile (even on a PDA as PocketPC) and pretty much used one until 2010. I kept waiting for Windows Phone 7 but the wait became too long and I decided to go Android.
I've had 3 different Android phones since 2010 and I am currently on the Samsung Skyrocket, which has been the best and most stable Android Phone I've owned. I also have an ASUS Transformer Prime with keyboard and it is a joy to use. I really do love widgets and use them heavily for my tasks, calendar and other at a glance "life notes." I also use OneNote for Android to keep notes and frequently accessed information.
I am also enjoying the Google ecosystem of Gmail, Calendar, Contacts, Reader and other services.
Despite the Tegra processor in my tablet, I don't play a lot of games and I often find that I wish I could do real work on an Android device or even play my "Good Old Games" from GOG.COM on my mobile devices.
However, I am a Microsoft guy. I have a Windows 7 main PC that serves my media to my XBOX. My laptop currently has Windows 8 release preview installed on it. So far, I am liking the ecosystem between Windows 8 and XBOX.
Which brings me to Windows Phone. I have one for work but I've not really made it mine yet. I like most of what I see. Maps do lack when compared to Google Maps and navigation. There isn't a good Google Reader app I've found yet and the YouTube app is pretty bad. However, a lot of these I could live with because I do like the Windows Phone interface and the common ecosystem it will have with Windows 8 and XBOX. I am also Zune owner (we have 3 in our family) and love the Zune player.
Android, in my opinion, is king as far as useful mobile apps and collaboration. I like file level access, apps like DropBox work seamlessly and I love the options on sharing media. But I am really wanting to move to close to one platform as I can. Kind of jarring to go between platforms.
So, all that said, I wanted to hear from other Windows Phone owners on how they like their devices. A few questions:
Will current devices like Titan II and Lumia 900 be upgradable to Windows Phone 8?
I think I will miss being able to change my own battery. If and when a battery needs to be replaced, what is the process? Can a store do it or do we mail it back in?
I'd love to make a Windows Phone my Zune replacement but being limited to 16 GB kind of stinks and I don't want to always have to stream via ZunePass. I have unlimited data but I don't want to become a "top 5%" user.
Thanks for letting me ramble...looking forward to a good discussion. Even if some of you convince me to stay Android...ha.
I wouldn't get too comfy with Zune as it looks like it will be replaced with X-Box Music, It is very difficult coming from a platform which is so customisable to WP7 which is quite closed, No doubt you are aware of the limitations associated with WP7 so I wont bore you with the details, I initially came from using Symbian to Windows mobile 6.1 then 6.5 and now WP7.5, I did find it difficult at first as I was so used to changing backgrounds and checking my files in File Manager etc but now I must admit I don't really miss any of that and am happy having a phone which does not need any tinkering, I find I use my phone less now and only use it when it counts, Before it was a cure for boredom having lots of things to change and I don't miss flashing ROMs or installing CABs,I am not really a heavy business user but my phone keeps my appointments at hand and syncs with my contacts and calender and makes phone calls believe it or not I love the simplicity that I can update where I am and what I am doing with just a couple of swipes, I use Nokia Maps which I find very adequate and Nokia Drive is superb and Free, The way I look at WP7 is that it is an OS in its infancy which will grow and get stronger.
AndyFZ1S said:
I wouldn't get too comfy with Zune as it looks like it will be replaced with X-Box Music, It is very difficult coming from a platform which is so customisable to WP7 which is quite closed, No doubt you are aware of the limitations associated with WP7 so I wont bore you with the details, I initially came from using Symbian to Windows mobile 6.1 then 6.5 and now WP7.5, I did find it difficult at first as I was so used to changing backgrounds and checking my files in File Manager etc but now I must admit I don't really miss any of that and am happy having a phone which does not need any tinkering, I find I use my phone less now and only use it when it counts, Before it was a cure for boredom having lots of things to change and I don't miss flashing ROMs or installing CABs,I am not really a heavy business user but my phone keeps my appointments at hand and syncs with my contacts and calender and makes phone calls believe it or not I love the simplicity that I can update where I am and what I am doing with just a couple of swipes, I use Nokia Maps which I find very adequate and Nokia Drive is superb and Free, The way I look at WP7 is that it is an OS in its infancy which will grow and get stronger.
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Great reply. I use ZunePass to get the music I want and keep the 10 songs a month. It plays very nicely with my Windows Media Center extender on the XBOX as well.
I am OK with less customization as long as I get USEFUL apps. My most useful apps on Android are a caleder widget, syncing with google tasks, Cozi (has a killer grocery list app), OneNote, Google Reader. I use those the most. There are apps to replace those on Windows Phone and I'll try them out on my work phone. I am sure they may not be AS good but they could prove passable.
I am OK not changing backgrounds and such.
Really, I am more fascinated with Windows 8 tablets than anything else and just kind of want my phone on a like ecosystem. The trick is seeing if I could live with the changes. And the frustrating fact nothing comes higher than 16 GB and can't change battery (Titan II or Lumua 900).
It seems they are all going that way with the non removable batteries, It is a pain but I look at it this way, Most batteries can be charged/discharged up to a 1000 times, Taking into account not many people keep their phones for two years you would have lets say 1000 days usage before any severe battery degradation, That is just a theoretical view of course and I am going on standard rechargeable batteries but it makes me feel a little better about it.
Try and stick with it and do try the replacement Apps, Hopefully it won't be too much of a painful transition for you.
Interesting
I would recomend you look at the recent breakthrough in Titan (1), I came to winphone from 6.5 and now with the recent HSPL breakthrough it is like the good old days again
Mark