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Participating in a head-to-head against Blackberry & iPhone - seeking their weakness!
Hi Everyone,
This Friday, I am going to be participating in a head-to-head panel discussion with a Blackberry expert and an iPhone expert. It is taking place at a Louisville Microsoft User Group meeting. I will be representing Windows Mobile in this "throwdown".
I have been working to compile information about the Blackberry and the iPhone, namely things that are a weakness when compared to Windows Mobile. I know they will both have a plethora of things to throw at me (how complicated Windows Mobile is to operate, blah blah blah...), so I want to be as prepared as possible to point out their shortcomings.
I read the really nice writeup from Menneisyys on the browser comparison, so I know the iPhone guy is going to be highlighting the Safari browser superiority. That article reminded me of some good talking points about what some of the WM browsers offer that Safari doesn't.
Looking for any input anyone might have, so I can add it to my list of talking points! No need to write a novel - you can just bullet items...
Thanks in advance for any armament you can provide!
Matt Coddington
Windows Mobile Louisville
Just a few here. I don't think the iphone can do any of these but modern wm devices can.
* copy & paste text in browser, easily done in opera 9.5, not possible on iphone I believe.
* Opera mobile have built-in download manager, download any file...
* 3G Video calling.
* Send stuff to friends via bluetooth (also recieve of course).
* Taking decent photos with a 3 mp & up built-in autofocus camera, the 2 mp fixed focus camera in the iphone is a joke.
* Record video at 30 fps.
* Browse mapped folders on your network with advanced filemanagers like Resco Explorer & etc.
* Draw nice artwork with advanced photo editing softwares like Pocket Artist.
* If you don't like the built in SIP, install another one. (Though I must admit the one in the iphone is really nice as it is.)
* Completely change the way your phone works and looks by customizing everything.
* Edit the registry to change file associations, like clicking on a Divx video automatically opens in Coreplayer for an example.
Sorry I'm to tired to go on with this list I think I would have to stay up all night if I should finish it.
user replaceable battery.
you have the choice between quite a few devices.
josefcrist said:
user replaceable battery.
you have the choice between quite a few devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately the BB does both of those. I will be very surprised if the BB guy doesn't sing the security aspects of the device, and as a BB Admin they are damn good. That said I have added some apps to my Trinity to give me some of that security back.
The BBs strengths is its weakness, it was designed as a secure platform for email first and everything has been added afterwards, WM had the basics in from the beginning and they have all been tweaked as a whole.
Sorry to not sound more positive about WM even though i have one myself which i wouldn't change for a BB.
deedee said:
Unfortunately the BB does both of those. I will be very surprised if the BB guy doesn't sing the security aspects of the device, and as a BB Admin they are damn good. That said I have added some apps to my Trinity to give me some of that security back.
The BBs strengths is its weakness, it was designed as a secure platform for email first and everything has been added afterwards, WM had the basics in from the beginning and they have all been tweaked as a whole.
Sorry to not sound more positive about WM even though i have one myself which i wouldn't change for a BB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
windows mobile has been around forever and has more apps. windows mobile is more open.
Agree completely, i was just lobbing up some of the arguments the BB guy may come up with , forewarned is forearmed so to speak. i may be a BB Admin but i am a commited WM user myself.
I appreciate everyone's input thus far! It will be an interesting discussion Friday, that's for sure! I fully expect for it to be civil, yet it will be good for me to have qualitative info on the competition.
It will be interesting to see what direction the conversation will go. Certain things are not possible on the iPhone without jailbreaking it, so if the iPhone guy tries to go there, he will be negating the argument that the iPhone just works! The average user is not going to risk jailbreaking their device (or even want to try regardless of risk because they have no clue!).
So, if we go down the road of tweaking devices like most geeks would do (and not the general public), I think that WM wins out for reasons already mentioned - it's been around a long time, and great sites like XDA-Developers create a resource that allows you to tweak your WM device to your heart's content!
Matt
Windows Mobile Louisville
MultiMatt said:
I appreciate everyone's input thus far! It will be an interesting discussion Friday, that's for sure! I fully expect for it to be civil, yet it will be good for me to have qualitative info on the competition.
It will be interesting to see what direction the conversation will go. Certain things are not possible on the iPhone without jailbreaking it, so if the iPhone guy tries to go there, he will be negating the argument that the iPhone just works! The average user is not going to risk jailbreaking their device (or even want to try regardless of risk because they have no clue!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well to be brutally honest the only real arguments that you have are 1 and 4 of the owziee's post.
the iphone guy will try to whoop your ass on the multimedia aspects of the device, multi touch, and a useful accelerometer and the ease of obtaining applications on a stock device.
When you start to talk about 'Tweaking" you have already conceded that WM is less accessible than the other 2 OS in its stock form, your iphone buddy could remind you that jailbreaking is to iphone what custom roms are to WM, they both add value to your device.
One More thing i'd line to point out here is that contrary to your belief, jailbreaking is in fact a piece of cake.
fyi
After you jailbreak an iphone you can have copy and paste in the browser after you install the c&p program.
FLowness of the interface
Can some one comment on the flowness of the interface between iphone and HTC HD
I have used WM and iphone but the flowness of the interface of WM comes no where near that of iphone. Also relatively iphone is much more faster, even with many app installed ( including jail broken ones) .
Forgetting all other features how does both these platforms compare in this feature
I love my QWERTY keyboards, BB has it, but iPhone doesn't.
fallenczar said:
your iphone buddy could remind you that jailbreaking is to iphone what custom roms are to WM, they both add value to your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But WM ROM upgrades don't die as soon as the manufacturer releases an update for the device - you're not forced to upgrade to a version that de-jailbreaks your phone. As far as I know, this _is_ the case on the iPhone...
Also, a WM ROM upgrade is not needed to run certain software (unless you're trying to install a WM6 only program on WM5), or to get certain functions - you can install most software and/or functions with simple cab files or installers on the stock ROMs without problems at all.
MultiMatt said:
I read the really nice writeup from Menneisyys on the browser comparison, so I know the iPhone guy is going to be highlighting the Safari browser superiority. That article reminded me of some good talking points about what some of the WM browsers offer that Safari doesn't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks
Just tell the folks "as soon as Windows Mobile manufacturers start producing devices with capacitive screens, the advantage of browsing the Web on the iPhone (assuming running the latest Opera Mobile on Windows Mobile) will be no more"
fallenczar said:
Well to be brutally honest...
...the iphone guy will try to whoop your ass on the multimedia aspects of the device, multi touch, and a useful accelerometer and the ease of obtaining applications on a stock device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are absolutely correct, and I anticipate that. Given that the iPhone is an iPod with a phone attached, I would have to have a Zune with a phone attached to even come close on the multimedia aspects. I'm prepared to acknowledge that iPhone has an advantage there...
fallenczar said:
When you start to talk about 'Tweaking" you have already conceded that WM is less accessible than the other 2 OS in its stock form, your iphone buddy could remind you that jailbreaking is to iphone what custom roms are to WM, they both add value to your device...
...One more thing i'd line to point out here is that contrary to your belief, jailbreaking is in fact a piece of cake.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, so jailbreaking might not be that hard, but let's consider the audience here. Let's go with the common denominator, the average Joe (Joe the Plummer! Ha! Ha!). Regardless of how easy techy people might think it is, the average person has no interest in screwing with their warranty and doing such a thing to their several hundred dollar phone. I know several people here at work who have iPhones and 1.) they have no idea what jailbreaking is, and 2.) once I told them what it would do, they expressed no interest in doing such a thing. Similar to the multitudes of Windows Phone users that I know - the majority of them are not interested in changing out their ROM unless it comes from the carrier.
My point being, I will argue that we need to keep custom ROMS and Jailbreaking out of it, and discuss what can be done without those in the discussion! How does that change the playing field?!
bemymonkey said:
But WM ROM upgrades don't die as soon as the manufacturer releases an update for the device - you're not forced to upgrade to a version that de-jailbreaks your phone. As far as I know, this _is_ the case on the iPhone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All new iPhone upgrades are cracked in, in most cases, days.
The biggest advantage of WM is the sheer number of devices it comes on. You can buy a phone that fits your needs rather than compromising. Want a keyboard? no problem. Want a HUGE screen? no problem. Want a tiny screen on a tiny device? no problem! Whatever you could wan't has probably already been made.
Just don't mention that for the new versions of WM, Microsoft is trying to do away with that.
The iphone isn't better for multimedia.... Only when running games and certain apps on the device itself, otherwise it sucks in comparision when it comes to the hardware.
Cameras, Photos, Video recording quality + video calls etc + wm devices more often have better quality displays (higher resolution) & bigger when it comes to the Touch HD. Ok, iphone have multitouch but personally I don't care about it...
Menneisyys said:
All new iPhone upgrades are cracked in, in most cases, days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But as far as I know, you can't choose _not_ to upgrade, can you?
On WM you can just keep your old ROM as long as you're satisfied with it...
I think the iPhone's app store is both a strength and a weakness in its case.
Filtering apps and games for quality is a great way to make sure the phone "just works" for all users. If this is all that Apple did, the only argument against it would be arbitrary. However, Apple is also denying apps they deem "too similar" to Apple apps and those they feel are in bad taste. So if someone (say Opera) makes a better browser, too bad you have Safari for that. And if you want a fart-noise generator, it depends on if it is found to be "offensive" by some anonymous panel.
Also, comparing a jail-broken iphone to a stock (under warranty) windows phone is apples to oranges imo.
more iphone info for you guys
You can choose not to update the firmware on the iphone. You can turn the feature off in itunes that trys to update and if it asks you can simply hit no. And to my knowledge you can put on older firmwares (like 2.0 instead of 2.1) after you updated if you like a previous version.
This is a serious question although I appreciate it could be taken as a troll.
Should Microsoft start again with their mobile OS? I know why they have kept compatability with older software but I personally think this is hurting them more than throwing away backwards compatability.
Look at the iPhone - that started from scratch and has grown to prominence without any back catalog of software.
Cheers, Rob.
Looks like its beginning to reach game-over stauts for M$ IMO. It feels like it did when Palm went down. Sorry to say, but I'm beginning my investigation into Android.
Exchange Server
Hi all
I use an exchange server provider and I find it's features really useful, not just on my mobile, but in MS Outlook 2007, in fact much more so on the PC. Because there are few equivalent services that I can get for the same price that would be compatible with both PC software and a mobile device, I am essentially tied to Microsoft products for the time being. MS have done very well at preventing 3rd party PIM clients accessing the full services of an exchange server.
Google are in the process of offering a full exchange service via Google Sync. If they are successful in this (which they clearly will be) then they are really only one step away from offering their own exchange type server which will be natively compatible with?? Android of course.
I would consider switching from WM to another OS if:
1. That OS could access the full services based on an MS Exchange server.
OR
2. There were comparable alternatives to a remote MS Exchange server system which could be accessed from the device.
In fact, Windows Mobile 6.5 can't access all the features of an Exchange server (e.g. being able to set specific Follow up reminder dates & times for emails and viewing other users calendars, etc.). So actually, an alternative system doesn't need to beat MS Outlook, it just needs to beat the feature limited WM 6.5 Pocket Outlook.
Sorry for the ramble but I can't see many large companies switching to Android if their employees can't accept a meeting request OTA!
In answer to the original question, yes, MS REALLY should start again with Windows Mobile and this time make sure users are able to access all the features of an MS exchange server OTA.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking
From what I've read on the developers Blogs the WM7 framework is entirely different to 6x.. so most of them are concentrating on this.. appararently the performance is at least doubled (this wasn't an MS fanboy). I do assume though that MS will do all they can to be backwards compatible .. the howl that happened on Palm will be nothing as to the reaction should MS completely leave their userbase high & dry. Yes Apple scored well by timing their entry into the market perfectly.. but they risk being trapped in exactly the same way by advances in technology.
I don't think it's game over in any direction just yet.. MS simply dosn't give up and there is absolutely nothing similar in the way Palm ran itself into the ground.. Obviuosly the media is a huge cheerleasder for both Google & Apple - for some reason believing these guys are in some way cool, uncommerical, funloving dudes who are only interested in the love..
look guys, some years passed by, and ONLY thing m$ wants to say to us is:
let's make smartphones, AGAIN.
pda's as mobile comps are DEAD.
f your 6.5 and rich kids.
f android and their feeble ****oozas.
xoen / nothin
Sleuth255 said:
Looks like its beginning to reach game-over stauts for M$ IMO. It feels like it did when Palm went down. Sorry to say, but I'm beginning my investigation into Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
omg, sleuth is going over to the dark side
btw, which droid model are you looking at?
Personally, i love WM
I agree with Andrew-in-woking. I love the ability to sync my contacts, notes, calender, music, photos, videos, and documents both ways with my computer and my phone. And, the thing I've been telling everyone is that devices supported by a company will work best with other devices supported by the same company. I've been using windows on all of my computers since I can remember, and I will only have the best phone experience if I get a windows powered phone, which would provide the best connectivity with my computer. It doesn't make sense to get an Iphone, unless you have an apple computer, in my eyes. Same with every other device. Get android if you have other devices powered by google os. Same with Samsung, sony, etc. If you start connecting devices across different companies, it will only lead to more problems, reducing the quality of your experience with that device. Those are my 2 cents.
funny how everybody is complain about windows mobile compares to iphone.
y havnt nobody complaining about crackberry to iphone?
not everybody buy a windows mobile phone and use it as a toy (iphone)
i love my Acer neotouch S200 with 1G cpu with custom 6.5 rom 23506, i'm not sure if i still want an android phone. oh, the only reason i want android phone is because of google gps navigator.
I like windows mobile the way it is, when it become's like an iphone, there is no point in using it anymore.
I'm not saying anything can't be improved, just that if it interface's like an iphone, you might as well buy an iphone which is what I suspect most people are talking about when comparing them.
Say goodbye to the usefulness of your high resolution screen's while using a child and finger friendly interface....massive icon's, text, menu's, spend half your time zooming in and out...panning etc.
andrew-in-woking said:
That OS could access the full services based on an MS Exchange server.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't this becoming a non-problem with better browsers? Outlook web access is now a very feature rich JavaScript based client - won't that run from anywhere?
Cheers, Rob.
I'm using Microsoft OS for about 15-20 years. First DOS, later Windows, and in the meanwhile also WM.
I don't need to sync anything between PC and phone but I want a "full" OS, you can customize whatever you want, and I love my Win32 API. On the IPhone and Android you don't even have a file explorer without downloading an extra app right? Yes I know "you can get an App for everything." And sure IPhone is comfortable and user friendly. But it's like that because it's a consumer device and being that it's probably better than WM. But actually WM is not only a toy (for people who don't feel comfortable with the more tech stuff) - it's an OS.
I don't really understand all the bad talking about WM recently. I agree using the GUI without a stylus is a pain in the ass but as I can see more and more parts of the OS are being updated with each new 6.5 build. And what's the deal about it.... it's only the f.... GUI!!!
Microsoft won't restart at all. Their OS will go and and on just like their desktop versions did. Remember all the talking back then. OS/2 kills Windows, MAC kills Windows.... IMO nothing of that happened at all.
MS over?
Don't believe the hype Sleuth.
HTC on windows rules.
Good to see you here.
Really appreciated your uc work on my HD.
New rom from Miri, uc'ed all my settings & apps.
Hours of fun.
100,000 apps for the iPhone in it's short life. 18,000 in all of WinMo's existence. 50K on Android already. M$ had a major chance when it buried Palm but it took the iPhone to bring real innovation back. Geezuz.
WinMo market share was cut in half in the last year. M$ is no longer considered a contender in the space dominated by iPhone, RIM, Nokia and now Android.
I too like the common api. But I've seen iPhone apps that blow my socks off. Hopefully, HTC will release a killer platform for android. I need capacitive, rez and battery life.
Moto Droid is the leader here now but it can't touch HTC keyboards. Lots of room for HTC to catch up. But android 2.0 on that very same droid can turn off bt and fire up your wifi profile when you walk into the door based on its continuously updated positional awareness. Weather works the same way, using wunderground school installations from a known database to give you local weather down to the exact temp where you are standing. You can use the camera to scan a bar code in a supermarket and it'll leverage Google's claim to fame and return info/best pricing on the web for the same item.
Meanwhile, m$ can't even make a decent marketplace. They are hobbled by feature drift and don't have a security clue (see chainfire's 2hr hack just to prove the point).
I wish it were otherwise but I've seen this all before...
Phonebook
munrobasher said:
Isn't this becoming a non-problem with better browsers? Outlook web access is now a very feature rich JavaScript based client - won't that run from anywhere?
Cheers, Rob.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Rob
You make a good point for mail and tasks but it's not quite the same as dialing directly from your cnmtacts.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking
Is this actually an issue of the OS itself? It's just market strategies and modern GUI experiences. With a good kernel (like we have with WM) it's no problem to add such features on top of it (if you just actually do it), but if you have limited kernel functionality but with the "good" GUI things on top it's harder to change the OS underneath it. I have no clue about Android yet but on the IPhone you can't even run background processes. Is Android just as flexible as the Windows kernel architecture? From what I heard I assume it's not, otherwise please proove me wrong.
The problem as you can tell it is more like Microsoft didn't care a lot about WM during the last couple years and especially HTC did what MS didn't, and now they need their time to catch up on their competitors again. But of course I'm also hoping they're doing fine with WM 7. I like the road they are going with 6.5 and if WM 7 is just like the new killer OS we're all waiting for (Windows 7 desktop isn't too bad neither right?) then why do you need your Apple and Google anymore???
FTTB, I'll probably get a Tilt 2 for hardware reasons. The iPhone is too restrictive for my tweaking tastes (although being a part of the jailbreak community would be fun) and no killer hardware for Android exists yet.
m$ needs a wake-up call. The mobile world is passing it by. This time next year (when I need another new gizmo) will be interesting. My predictions go with Android because Google has the information. Gathering it is what they do. Heck, the current navigation app on Android leverages the Google maps data for for actual image based turn by turn instruction. Impressive and always up to date.
Any one can explain why Iphone can run graphics more smooth than WM?
I have HTC Touch HD and i test a lot of cooked roms and an official roms but it still slowly.
The hardware of Iphone is better than my HTC HD?
Regards
This might have been the wrong place to ask that question, but have you seen how simple the OS for the iPhone is? If you compare it with WM, it's just a start menu with tweaks. If you did that to WM, it'd fly as well too because it has no reason to use up it's power or memory in keeping a very nice interface smooth.
Good evening, don't forget that Windows Mobile (WinCE) is way older than Iphone... Microsoft WinCE was created in 1996 beetwin that time and now, things have change 3g, smartphone, colour-screen, wifi,... Windows Mobile is not ready it's like a wall with 15 layer of wallpaper. While Iphone is new it's developed with all this technologies built-in like a wall with only one wallpaper and the best one.
Between Cassipeia A20 and latest HTC... it's been a long way.
hugomenezes said:
Any one can explain why Iphone can run graphics more smooth than WM?
I have HTC Touch HD and i test a lot of cooked roms and an official roms but it still slowly.
The hardware of Iphone is better than my HTC HD?
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what windows mobile can do that iphone cannot..
1st windows can unzip RAR,zip...etc.. alot kind of format when company send u a email that have attachment in ZIP that iphone unable to read the file. but windows mobile can!
2nd playing play with fews friend on wifi local game network on laptop connecting windows mobile.but iphone cannot!
3rd windows mobile can play FLASH format. but iphone cannot!
4th windows mobile able to support more video/audio codec. but iphone cannot!
5th windows mobile can download bittorrent!. but iphone cannot
6th windows mobile can change battery when ur battery is low. but iphone cannot!
7th windows mobile more app.
8th windows mobile can sync any song/video and other without installing itunes.but iphone must install itunes to add video or song
9th windows mobile can share song/video/photo other file but iphone cannot!
sorry too many to add.. lazy
Moved to general, as not D&H.
WARNING: I WANT NO FLAMING ON THIS THREAD, ONLY DISCUSSION AND HEALTHY DISCUSSION. ANY FLAMING THE THREAD WILL BE CLOSED AND ACTION WILL BE TAKEN AGAINST THE MEMBERS.
hugomenezes said:
Any one can explain why Iphone can run graphics more smooth than WM?
The hardware of Iphone is better than my HTC HD?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The GPU is faster; generally PowerVR versus Adrena 200 (AMD Z430). Has nothing to do with the OS. In my opinion, the Apple OS approach is way too restrictive.
One thing WiMo can not do that the iPhone can is WPA2-Enterprise authentication without a certificate. But that's about it. At the end of the day, I don't miss my iPhone, very happy with my HTC HD2.
Well.. if you are comparing iOS with WiMo.. you might aswell add Android.
Well, personally I prefer both Android and WinMo over iOS.
why?
basically, because you can do more with both android and WinMo without rooting/jailbreaking the device. Than you could with an non-jailbroken iPhone.
with Android and Winmo:
- You can use your phone as a wi-fi hotspot
- Download different movie/media players
- Brows your files on your device and/or computer
- etc
However..
You can't add icons onto your desktop in WinMo. Neither can you add folders on your own(It is possible that i've been missing something here ofc).
Both the Android and iOS platform has devices that does support games with smooth graphics(as you call it).
And I find that the App store and Android Market is better than the WinMo market.
But that might just be me.
Both Android and WinMo got devices with harware keyboard. Witch is something the iOS does not have. I did not like to use my iPhone with wet fingers, same goes for most touch screens that i've used. However, that is not that big of an issue with a hardware keyboard.
You can also have widgets in android(You can also do this in WinMo if you download the right app for it. But I can't remember the name) I.e you can place a weather forecast on your desktop/lockscreen. On iOS however, you will have to click the apps icon, wait for the loading and then refresh to see the weather.
Same goes for the calendar.. In android I can see my appointments straight on the home screen.. However on the iOS I have to enter the Calendar app.
All in all, here is the way I would put my prefferences.
1. Android(A quite open platform. With the posibillity of adding widgets etc.)
2. WinMo 6.5+
3. iOS(I would really like to see some widgets.. atleast in the lock screen..)
I agree with ukon .
winmo is older, hence not as graphicly 'complete' if you'd like.
But it does not preform any slower than the iphone os doing the same tasks...
Winmo lets you to do anything you like, within reason... Everything mentioned above by another poster. Its not a restricted OS. Unlike the iphone os.
Android is in my opinion a lovely mix of the two.
flawless GUI, and its not restrictive.
I want a phone where I have total control: WM & Android.
NOT a phone that totally controls me: iOS
Nuff said.
phatmanxxl said:
I want a phone where I have total control: WM & Android.
NOT a phone that totally controls me: iOS
Nuff said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said!
ov2rey said:
what windows mobile can do that iphone cannot..
7th windows mobile more app.
sorry too many to add.. lazy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where are they hiding all those apps?
pkoper said:
Where are they hiding all those apps?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On this little ol' think called t'interweb
Try Handango, MS Marketplace, XDA, google.
See, unlike Apple, MS don't dictate who can create and sell apps for their OS, and WM has a huge headstart on Apple.
It's not better, it just has a better marketing
jge93 said:
It's not better, it just has a better marketing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
In addition to all of the above, Steve Jobs has figured out that most people don't need complicated stuff, it's the "stupid simple and shiny interface" ratio to. "advanced fuctions". I really don't know if that's really good or bad and I guess to each his own. Sad tho that these different capabilities haven't so far put together. Maybe Android will accomplish that one day.
Oh, and the way iPhone has implemented video call is utterly rediculous. Or have they changed that restriction policy later or did someone hack it open?
hugomenezes said:
Any one can explain why Iphone can run graphics more smooth than WM?
I have HTC Touch HD and i test a lot of cooked roms and an official roms but it still slowly.
The hardware of Iphone is better than my HTC HD?
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to ignore the other posts in this topic. It seems too many are clouded by iOS hatred (I mean, "WinMo has more apps than iOS"? Really?).
As far as I know, there are a lot of factors that goes into why WinMo is not as 'smooth'/efficient as iOS. Among these factors are lack of proper GPU drivers (due to Qualcomm's licensing issues), lack of proper optimization due to multiple phone spec setup (iPhone hardware tends to be static and fully supported by Apple itself), and, perhaps most notably, Windows Mobile is a very old OS. It doesn't support a lot of modern tech in ARM CPUs.
The last reason is probably why Microsoft is finally deciding to drop Windows Mobile and develop Windows Phone.
But to get to the point, Apple doesn't have any of the issues above. iOS is modern, available on static hardware configurations, and, of course, Apple's micromanagement of its OS/app market is probably doing a lot to keep things efficient. Of course, this approach has its drawbacks too (as people here would probably love to tell), but the advantage is also obvious for the world to see.
answer the question topics. I think it smoother graphics on the iphone because the resolution is only 320x240 qvga while your touch hd is WVGA 480x800.
and it is certainly lighter os on iphone because it only displays a static icon in the menu. if you like static icons ,turn off htc sense and use titanium. or use shell menu such as spb. it'll fly
and for graphics in applications such as games. buy games from EA and Gameloft and i guarantee they run smoother than the iphone. for example Ferrari GT from gameloft. play using accelerometer on for both, you'll see which phone steer car easily
madnish30 said:
WARNING: I WANT NO FLAMING ON THIS THREAD, ONLY DISCUSSION AND HEALTHY DISCUSSION. ANY FLAMING THE THREAD WILL BE CLOSED AND ACTION WILL BE TAKEN AGAINST THE MEMBERS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another quick reminder.
Such thread are usually shut, but i'm leting this be because so far it seems clean and productive, please don't turn it ugly.
Thanks
madnish30.
General WP7 question
Im an Android user at present, rooted Desire (gingerbread)
Very much liked the U.I of WP7 when having a quick 5 min' play in an o2 shop
ive not ruled out WP7 for my next phone but know nothing about the state of current Modding for the Devices
is Unlocking the same as Rooting ? ie Custom Roms, rooted only apps, framework tweaks etc
if not, how is it different? what does it offer ?
Sorry for the potentialy Dumbarse question but im not down with any WP7 info at present
Cheers
we don't have an unlock
the unlock refers to the ability to sideload programs and not go through windows marketplace using a windeveloper hack from chevron...
The unlock is not related to custom roms - imho you really don't need them nearly as much on windows phone 7. One thing you have to realize about custom roms is that while you're given an os on a device, it doesn't work out of the box. Both windows mobile and android suffered from this and a custom rom was necessary to just get some basic things to function more smoothly to create a better experience.
Windows phone deviates from that because all you have to do is turn it on and most of the UX/UI components work out of the box and creates an unbelievable experience. So at the current state, the only custom rom I have seen is on the hd7 and mozart, and those are rom transplants by ansar - not completely the same as a custom rom.
If you think you need a custom rom to live by, don't get windows phone. But if you truly want to try an OS that just works and works well, I suggest testing the device. You won't go back to android after you test the device.
Great respose
thanks for the info
For sure, i do love my Android but i find that i keep on changing stuff for not much other reason than i just can.
As mentioned, i was indeed impressed with the UI on the phone i tried...if only briefly
its a shame i couldnt get one to trial for a month to see how i got along with it, thats life i guess
i might well take the plunge on WP7 as my current contract runs out at the end of march
One or two last thing to anybody that cares to respond
so stuff like email and SMS/MMS, are you locked in to using the Out of the box app/client or are there others available in the Market ? ....indeed, you might not need to use anything different form the preloaded stuff, im just curious
and one last thing, Anyone having moved from android to WP7, you happy? anything you particularly miss ?
thanks for the above answer again
cheers
Chris
InspectorFrost said:
and one last thing, Anyone having moved from android to WP7, you happy? anything you particularly miss ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, at the moment there is only the default built in app for this. However, in a similar vein to the above; there just isn't a need either. The keyboard is awesome (far better than any other - be it Windows Mobile or Android - I've tried) and it's a simple threaded SMS system.
I had Android on my HD2 (so admittedly not a native build). The only things I miss are a couple of the apps (but I can live without them and they'll probably end up having sister apps on WP7 eventually) and the USB functionality (but I know plenty of people here will argue with me over that). Am I happy? Yes! (Small grumble about the update situation, but it's a thousand times better than WM or Android).
Casey
Thanks, Man
the preinstalled sms manager for wp7 has suited my needs really well. It sms...I can see smilies. It's threaded. That's all I really need for my interests.
Now as far as migrating from android, I did but I didn't like android so much. I used it for smsing but that was about it. Android has a plethora of programs to suit user interests, but by in large, many just. plain. suck.
That's not to say that wp7 programs suck, because some do. But in terms of productivity, I found a bit more with windows phone. I think the only program I really REALLY miss is skyscape because I am a clinical psych student and I use that on a daily basis. Adjusting to no skyscape is horrible
and one last thing, Anyone having moved from android to WP7, you happy? anything you particularly miss ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I moved from android, and while I do miss some functionality (that will come in time with updates), overall I'm very happy. The UI is vastly superior, and feels like a more polished professional product as opposed to one stitched together, if that makes sense. Android was very functional, but never felt totally complete in its design. This led to a less than great overall interaction experience. But I will reiterate; the functionality/settings options are VERY BASIC SO FAR.
wp7 not only feels more solid, but you can see the quality of app design already far surpass anything on Android. The way you flow through information is quite refreshing to the linear/up-down style based on computer desktops we are used to. Email & Music player are also bar none on mobile platforms in my opinion. Still a few things need to be added for outlook support, but overall I am very impressed with these two features.
You will also notice that its the only other platform with the responsiveness that iOS has. Feels very fluid, and there is no delay in pinch to zoom features on maps/browser ect. The voice commands are very good as well (voice to open apps, browse, call people ect).
Social integration of Facebook (and twitter come Mango update later this year) is top notch. No other platform has anything like this and its really handy. I don't even use Facebook much, but I thoroughly enjoy how easy it is to catch up on people's doings and get back to more important tasks.
Things I miss are more in depth functionality and settings choices. I miss the official google voice app, custom sms/mms apps & IM apps. I also miss smart dialing, which most smart phones come with as standard. Smart dialing will no doubt be incorporated in an update, but this should have been done from the get go imo. Once we get socket support later this year, IM and sms app replacements will come. Most of the needed apps are available, from shazam to netflix to news apps to flixster to translators ect. The google voice and smart dialing features are the big ones for me. GoVoice works pretty good for Google Voice access, but since no socket support yet, the notifications have to be pushed from a 3rd party server.
There are more apps available on Android, but just like when I was on Android and the iPhone had more apps, thats not all that matters. There are some you will miss, but I can do without most of them until more developers come over the wp7.
As far as games go, the quality is beyond both Android and the iPhone in my opinion. However, there aren't nearly as many available (yet). You are seeing more and more big time developers either making, or announcing movement over the wp7 though so this will quickly change. The quality of the xbox live games is great, and the platform is definitely designed to also be a future gaming powerhouse. I can't wait till I can control my windows media center and xbox/kinect with my phone.
wp7 is in its early stages so just be ready to accept that the tinkering you are used to will be much more limited here, as will the overall control options you have. But you will quickly learn that the base structure of this platform is beyond what the others deliver (of coarse whether you like the UI is preference), and as this platform matures, the quality of the interface & app development and user interaction will be much more pleasant than what Android offered(s).
As far as unlocking, you CAN still unlock with the chevron program. This allows you to tinker with the registry to change the look/colors of the UI, control of volumes ect and of coarse enables things like file managers & custom ringtones. Head to www.touchxperience.com to see what the main phone manager for unlocked phones is up to.
For day to day use, my wp7 is more appealing to me (even with some missing functionality). Its hard to go back to the style of layout that iOS, Android ect all have in common; although I do keep my N1 around for times when I need the hotspot feature.
dtboos said:
Social integration of Facebook (and twitter come NoDo update in the next week) is top notch. No other platform has anything like this and its really handy. I don't even use Facebook much, but I thoroughly enjoy how easy it is to catch up on people's doings and get back to more important tasks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just a correction here, twitter integration is coming in the mango update, not the NoDo update.
The Gate Keeper said:
just a correction here, twitter integration is coming in the mango update, not the NoDo update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I stand corrected.
@dtboos
Great post, thank you
All the above sounds like stuff i can deal with
Shazam...a quality app that i use tons, glad thats there
facebook im not on so im not bothered with that, and as for Mail/sms clients, i can live with stock so long as the work well
The Major sticking point at the moment for me (having dug around the net a little) is the API limitations that dont seem to allow for Messengers, im a big fan of Whatsapp and (out of choice) wouldnt really wanna be without it.
Hope MS are going to amend this in the (very) near future, as im sure this will persuade a raft of people on to their platform
Again, thanks for the above posts, most informative
Cheers
Chris
InspectorFrost said:
All the above sounds like stuff i can deal with
Shazam...a quality app that i use tons, glad thats there
facebook im not on so im not bothered with that, and as for Mail/sms clients, i can live with stock so long as the work well
The Major sticking point at the moment for me (having dug around the net a little) is the API limitations that dont seem to allow for Messengers, im a big fan of Whatsapp and (out of choice) wouldnt really wanna be without it.
Hope MS are going to amend this in the (very) near future, as im sure this will persuade a raft of people on to their platform
Again, thanks for the above posts, most informative
Cheers
Chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have a link available right now, but I remember an interview with one of the head developers on wp7 saying that socket support is #2 or 3 on the developer requested features list, and they will definitely be implementing this sooner rather than later.
They know socket support is wanted and needed, and with that will come IM clients ect.
yea, i believe we will be hearing about socket support at the MIX 2011 conference.
So, Heres what I'm seeing..
Windows eventually removing their heads from the warm dark places which inspire them, and bridging the gap between Win 8 and WinPhoney.. and giving users back a powerful PDA-like experience where we can once again do powerful things on our devices besides swipe & play games
iPhone6 or iPhone7 actually functioning more like a tablet, the iPad functioning more like a macbook, and people actually getting work done on their phones again.
Both the above phones docking into docking control stations which go to myDP out to Flatscreen + mouse & keyboard, for a Full Office Pocket Computing Combo
and Android clinging to their obsolete wanabe iPhone, pain-in-the-butt smartphone experience they seem overjoyed about... without anyplace to progress to but the dreaded Linux OS, losing all of its users but the current Linux users when the bridge from Phones to Desktops is complete
Google, Apple, & MS working like crazy to be sure phones stay as far away from desktops as possible for as long as possible, by continued slothful micro-trickling of RAM, ROM memory, Internal Memory, GPU & CPU speeds, and very un-user-friendly software which keeps phone users confined to a small phone box to expand their profitability
the rise of Hardware companies like ASUS, Huawei, etc, who offer devices able to support Win8.. Apple quickly changing their game to follow suit, and the inevitable end of this little current SmartPhone-only empire
and Android left diddling themselves making a few diehard Desktop Linux OS Phones
and I dont see Android having much of any future at all in that rapidly approaching time period they seem completely oblivious to.
anyone agree with that forecast & assessment?
Android is very popular among all the OSs & the combination of a cool software & high end latest hardware makes it endlessly happening.
ak070 said:
Android is very popular among all the OSs & the combination of a cool software & high end latest hardware makes it endlessly happening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok.. so the "cool apps" you feel will make it to be "endlessly happening", regardless of the generation or era?
and "the latest hardware" remember is all relative...
You dont think INCREASED hardware capabilities able to support a larger more fully functioning, & more useful OS will make these little apps seem a trivial waste of time?
chinarabbit said:
ok.. so the "cool apps" you feel will make it to be "endlessly happening", regardless of the generation or era?
and "the latest hardware" remember is all relative...
You dont think INCREASED hardware capabilities able to support a larger more fully functioning, & more useful OS will make these little apps seem a trivial waste of time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never mentioned cool apps. I'm talking about the overall OS. Its Open source. So there are many manufacturers that use this OS & come up with their own ideas & devices with different designs which gives users a very wide variety to choose from. And as far as new hardware is concerned, manufacturers like Samsung & Sony use new hardwares to add new features which were never implemented before & completely redefine the 'Smartphone' experience.
I'm not saying that other OSs are bad. It's the matter of one's own taste finally.
Seems to me your assessment is based on your usage/desired usage.....in reality many many people don't really even need a Windows pc, and use the internet primarily for media/social applications, which android favours.
So there will always be a market out there regardless I reckon
Nice fortune telling but i really dont agree ...
ak070 said:
I never mentioned cool apps. I'm talking about the overall OS. Its Open source. So there are many manufacturers that use this OS & come up with their own ideas & devices with different designs which gives users a very wide variety to choose from. And as far as new hardware is concerned, manufacturers like Samsung & Sony use new hardwares to add new features which were never implemented before & completely redefine the 'Smartphone' experience.
I'm not saying that other OSs are bad. It's the matter of one's own taste finally.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ya... but is it really just about OSs? or do u think the manufacturers play a larger role in it?
For example, if Samsung & HTC were to create the majority of their devices for use with a new "Windows Mobile 7" because of its design & functionality & usefulness exceeding that of Android - which would inevitably happen, because even though Android is useful for certain things, a Phone OS who encompassed those things, and surpassed it in many others, creating a wider-use platform able to satisfy a broader user base would have to dominate - Dont you think that the number of Android users would dwindle to near nothing?
if every new HTC & Samsung was built with, say, a "Windows Mobile 7" which out-performed Android, and was preferred by companies like ASUS, Huawei, HTC, & Samsung, because of the OS having more use in Government & Job-specific applications that Win CE is often used for, which WinMo 6 started to see a bit of before it was sat on.. Users would of course move from Android to WinMo7, and I really dont see that there would be many android users left at all
Linux is Open Source, yet very few there are who use it & develop for it..
Windows is the largest OS on earth.. Like it or not - like MS or not - developers still create freeware and awesome programs according to the specifications of the device. and if that device allowed for more control, functionality, & customizability, it stands to reason that most devs would migrate as well
If this is a arguent thread well here we go..
i walked into the windows store and messed with the 41mp phone and all i did was spend 10min scrolling down and up to find apps
end of my argument...
androidfoshizzle said:
If this is a arguent thread well here we go..
i walked into the windows store and messed with the 41mp phone and all i did was spend 10min scrolling down and up to find apps
end of my argument...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ya, it can get a bit silly... apparently they are alphabetized, and i think you can sort different ways too..
For 100% sure, WindowsPhone will never amount to anything unless its a full Win8 they call WinPhone some day
but I do think win MOBILE 7 is whats needed, and what could sink android.
Android won't sink..Ubuntu will have a phone out that has a full desktop OS by the time windows does anything.. Android is a mobile operating system anyways
sent from 9 month old nexus 4
open source
i agree with androidfoshizzle..linux (android ubuntu) is open source and have many supporters..its free but gives high end support and availability of features.they understood that linux has to become user friendly and it has come to a very reasonable level!
chinarabbit said:
So, Heres what I'm seeing..
Windows eventually removing their heads from the warm dark places which inspire them, and bridging the gap between Win 8 and WinPhoney.. and giving users back a powerful PDA-like experience where we can once again do powerful things on our devices besides swipe & play games
iPhone6 or iPhone7 actually functioning more like a tablet, the iPad functioning more like a macbook, and people actually getting work done on their phones again.
Both the above phones docking into docking control stations which go to myDP out to Flatscreen + mouse & keyboard, for a Full Office Pocket Computing Combo
and Android clinging to their obsolete wanabe iPhone, pain-in-the-butt smartphone experience they seem overjoyed about... without anyplace to progress to but the dreaded Linux OS, losing all of its users but the current Linux users when the bridge from Phones to Desktops is complete
Google, Apple, & MS working like crazy to be sure phones stay as far away from desktops as possible for as long as possible, by continued slothful micro-trickling of RAM, ROM memory, Internal Memory, GPU & CPU speeds, and very un-user-friendly software which keeps phone users confined to a small phone box to expand their profitability
the rise of Hardware companies like ASUS, Huawei, etc, who offer devices able to support Win8.. Apple quickly changing their game to follow suit, and the inevitable end of this little current SmartPhone-only empire
and Android left diddling themselves making a few diehard Desktop Linux OS Phones
and I dont see Android having much of any future at all in that rapidly approaching time period they seem completely oblivious to.
anyone agree with that forecast & assessment?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
fortune teller!
androidfoshizzle said:
Android won't sink..Ubuntu will have a phone out that has a full desktop OS by the time windows does anything.. Android is a mobile operating system anyways
sent from 9 month old nexus 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it already does
The problem with Linux is its just over complicated and not much fun to use.. everytime you want to do something, you have to pull out your programmers reference book.. or google it.
I had thought early on that Android would be a way to enter Google into direct competition with Apple & Windows Desktop OSs, and give us all another viable option..
the problem is two-fold..
1stly, Linux Devs are overly left-brained. and they dont have any creative oversight or people in charge of non-geeky usability engineering.. making Linux the choice of OS for people who enjoy doing what would only be done by IT guys if your computer had serious problems on other OSs
2ndly, Google's own shortsightedness.. their Android dev team has created an implementation of the Powerful Android Platform that is really anything but powerful... and these google OS's are designed inside and out to be phones, and have little use outside the mobile phone market, except as equally-functioning tablets, which make them little more than large phones, without great calling ability
the Ubuntu OS is starting to be developed for Android, rather than the other way around.. its looking more and more like a Phone interface.. It actually seems to be optimized for touch screens, and if not, the developers think "making Linux more user-friendly" means making it work like a phone..
Users want an OS thats fun to use.. we're not all retards... i dont think the devs get the difference.
at any rate, Ubuntu is definitely NOT replacing Win7 or Win8 or OSXs anytime soon, thats much has been made painfully transparent by google..
further, google really wants to make you know you are using a Google product.. it has Google DNA on it from top to bottom.. which is great if you think Google is the way you should be doing all of your computing.
I think, still, a powerful Windows Mobile 7 Solution would quell Android, and take all wind out of its sails, and eventually pretty much squash it for all but Ubuntu Desktop users
But Even given its complexity and difficulty of use, how many of us would still prefer to have a Linux Desktop on our Phone, rather than a Google Phone for our desktop???
I most certainly would