Related
General WP7 question
Im an Android user at present, rooted Desire (gingerbread)
Very much liked the U.I of WP7 when having a quick 5 min' play in an o2 shop
ive not ruled out WP7 for my next phone but know nothing about the state of current Modding for the Devices
is Unlocking the same as Rooting ? ie Custom Roms, rooted only apps, framework tweaks etc
if not, how is it different? what does it offer ?
Sorry for the potentialy Dumbarse question but im not down with any WP7 info at present
Cheers
we don't have an unlock
the unlock refers to the ability to sideload programs and not go through windows marketplace using a windeveloper hack from chevron...
The unlock is not related to custom roms - imho you really don't need them nearly as much on windows phone 7. One thing you have to realize about custom roms is that while you're given an os on a device, it doesn't work out of the box. Both windows mobile and android suffered from this and a custom rom was necessary to just get some basic things to function more smoothly to create a better experience.
Windows phone deviates from that because all you have to do is turn it on and most of the UX/UI components work out of the box and creates an unbelievable experience. So at the current state, the only custom rom I have seen is on the hd7 and mozart, and those are rom transplants by ansar - not completely the same as a custom rom.
If you think you need a custom rom to live by, don't get windows phone. But if you truly want to try an OS that just works and works well, I suggest testing the device. You won't go back to android after you test the device.
Great respose
thanks for the info
For sure, i do love my Android but i find that i keep on changing stuff for not much other reason than i just can.
As mentioned, i was indeed impressed with the UI on the phone i tried...if only briefly
its a shame i couldnt get one to trial for a month to see how i got along with it, thats life i guess
i might well take the plunge on WP7 as my current contract runs out at the end of march
One or two last thing to anybody that cares to respond
so stuff like email and SMS/MMS, are you locked in to using the Out of the box app/client or are there others available in the Market ? ....indeed, you might not need to use anything different form the preloaded stuff, im just curious
and one last thing, Anyone having moved from android to WP7, you happy? anything you particularly miss ?
thanks for the above answer again
cheers
Chris
InspectorFrost said:
and one last thing, Anyone having moved from android to WP7, you happy? anything you particularly miss ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, at the moment there is only the default built in app for this. However, in a similar vein to the above; there just isn't a need either. The keyboard is awesome (far better than any other - be it Windows Mobile or Android - I've tried) and it's a simple threaded SMS system.
I had Android on my HD2 (so admittedly not a native build). The only things I miss are a couple of the apps (but I can live without them and they'll probably end up having sister apps on WP7 eventually) and the USB functionality (but I know plenty of people here will argue with me over that). Am I happy? Yes! (Small grumble about the update situation, but it's a thousand times better than WM or Android).
Casey
Thanks, Man
the preinstalled sms manager for wp7 has suited my needs really well. It sms...I can see smilies. It's threaded. That's all I really need for my interests.
Now as far as migrating from android, I did but I didn't like android so much. I used it for smsing but that was about it. Android has a plethora of programs to suit user interests, but by in large, many just. plain. suck.
That's not to say that wp7 programs suck, because some do. But in terms of productivity, I found a bit more with windows phone. I think the only program I really REALLY miss is skyscape because I am a clinical psych student and I use that on a daily basis. Adjusting to no skyscape is horrible
and one last thing, Anyone having moved from android to WP7, you happy? anything you particularly miss ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I moved from android, and while I do miss some functionality (that will come in time with updates), overall I'm very happy. The UI is vastly superior, and feels like a more polished professional product as opposed to one stitched together, if that makes sense. Android was very functional, but never felt totally complete in its design. This led to a less than great overall interaction experience. But I will reiterate; the functionality/settings options are VERY BASIC SO FAR.
wp7 not only feels more solid, but you can see the quality of app design already far surpass anything on Android. The way you flow through information is quite refreshing to the linear/up-down style based on computer desktops we are used to. Email & Music player are also bar none on mobile platforms in my opinion. Still a few things need to be added for outlook support, but overall I am very impressed with these two features.
You will also notice that its the only other platform with the responsiveness that iOS has. Feels very fluid, and there is no delay in pinch to zoom features on maps/browser ect. The voice commands are very good as well (voice to open apps, browse, call people ect).
Social integration of Facebook (and twitter come Mango update later this year) is top notch. No other platform has anything like this and its really handy. I don't even use Facebook much, but I thoroughly enjoy how easy it is to catch up on people's doings and get back to more important tasks.
Things I miss are more in depth functionality and settings choices. I miss the official google voice app, custom sms/mms apps & IM apps. I also miss smart dialing, which most smart phones come with as standard. Smart dialing will no doubt be incorporated in an update, but this should have been done from the get go imo. Once we get socket support later this year, IM and sms app replacements will come. Most of the needed apps are available, from shazam to netflix to news apps to flixster to translators ect. The google voice and smart dialing features are the big ones for me. GoVoice works pretty good for Google Voice access, but since no socket support yet, the notifications have to be pushed from a 3rd party server.
There are more apps available on Android, but just like when I was on Android and the iPhone had more apps, thats not all that matters. There are some you will miss, but I can do without most of them until more developers come over the wp7.
As far as games go, the quality is beyond both Android and the iPhone in my opinion. However, there aren't nearly as many available (yet). You are seeing more and more big time developers either making, or announcing movement over the wp7 though so this will quickly change. The quality of the xbox live games is great, and the platform is definitely designed to also be a future gaming powerhouse. I can't wait till I can control my windows media center and xbox/kinect with my phone.
wp7 is in its early stages so just be ready to accept that the tinkering you are used to will be much more limited here, as will the overall control options you have. But you will quickly learn that the base structure of this platform is beyond what the others deliver (of coarse whether you like the UI is preference), and as this platform matures, the quality of the interface & app development and user interaction will be much more pleasant than what Android offered(s).
As far as unlocking, you CAN still unlock with the chevron program. This allows you to tinker with the registry to change the look/colors of the UI, control of volumes ect and of coarse enables things like file managers & custom ringtones. Head to www.touchxperience.com to see what the main phone manager for unlocked phones is up to.
For day to day use, my wp7 is more appealing to me (even with some missing functionality). Its hard to go back to the style of layout that iOS, Android ect all have in common; although I do keep my N1 around for times when I need the hotspot feature.
dtboos said:
Social integration of Facebook (and twitter come NoDo update in the next week) is top notch. No other platform has anything like this and its really handy. I don't even use Facebook much, but I thoroughly enjoy how easy it is to catch up on people's doings and get back to more important tasks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just a correction here, twitter integration is coming in the mango update, not the NoDo update.
The Gate Keeper said:
just a correction here, twitter integration is coming in the mango update, not the NoDo update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I stand corrected.
@dtboos
Great post, thank you
All the above sounds like stuff i can deal with
Shazam...a quality app that i use tons, glad thats there
facebook im not on so im not bothered with that, and as for Mail/sms clients, i can live with stock so long as the work well
The Major sticking point at the moment for me (having dug around the net a little) is the API limitations that dont seem to allow for Messengers, im a big fan of Whatsapp and (out of choice) wouldnt really wanna be without it.
Hope MS are going to amend this in the (very) near future, as im sure this will persuade a raft of people on to their platform
Again, thanks for the above posts, most informative
Cheers
Chris
InspectorFrost said:
All the above sounds like stuff i can deal with
Shazam...a quality app that i use tons, glad thats there
facebook im not on so im not bothered with that, and as for Mail/sms clients, i can live with stock so long as the work well
The Major sticking point at the moment for me (having dug around the net a little) is the API limitations that dont seem to allow for Messengers, im a big fan of Whatsapp and (out of choice) wouldnt really wanna be without it.
Hope MS are going to amend this in the (very) near future, as im sure this will persuade a raft of people on to their platform
Again, thanks for the above posts, most informative
Cheers
Chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have a link available right now, but I remember an interview with one of the head developers on wp7 saying that socket support is #2 or 3 on the developer requested features list, and they will definitely be implementing this sooner rather than later.
They know socket support is wanted and needed, and with that will come IM clients ect.
yea, i believe we will be hearing about socket support at the MIX 2011 conference.
So in this thread it tells you how to install pc operating systems like windows and linux on the Evo 3D.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1459153
This, is freaking awesome. This one is a big breakthrough.
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Here is the thread in the Nook Color forums for ubuntu on the device:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1055954
----
These two threads are native installs, not using some client to access the installation, the device itself is the client as it should be.
This is not some chrooted virtual OS simulation, but the real deal installed to the device.
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In the back of my mind i've wanted to play with ubuntu installed on the MT4GS, but not a virtual installation I want it installed and running on the device natively.
I definitely don't have the time to do this and a lot i'm trying to do around here even if I wasn't in my busy season for work.
Dropping this information so I can find it later when I do get to trying to get ubuntu (and now windows XP looks like a possibility) installed on this device.
If anyone else feels like looking into this, here's a good place to start. If anyone comes across any other projects that are the real deal and not virtual installs please post links here.
Have fun!
Blue6IX said:
So in this thread it tells you how to install pc operating systems like windows and linux on the Evo 3D.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1459153
This, is freaking awesome. This one is a big breakthrough.
----
Here is the thread in the Nook Color forums for ubuntu on the device:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1055954
----
These two threads are native installs, not using some client to access the installation, the device itself is the client as it should be.
This is not some chrooted virtual OS simulation, but the real deal installed to the device.
----
In the back of my mind i've wanted to play with ubuntu installed on the MT4GS, but not a virtual installation I want it installed and running on the device natively.
I definitely don't have the time to do this and a lot i'm trying to do around here even if I wasn't in my busy season for work.
Dropping this information so I can find it later when I do get to trying to get ubuntu (and now windows XP looks like a possibility) installed on this device.
If anyone else feels like looking into this, here's a good place to start. If anyone comes across any other projects that are the real deal and not virtual installs please post links here.
Have fun!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regardless of what impression you may have, it is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE to run MSWin on ARM hardware natively. The reason for this is that MSWin is x86 and ARM is... ARM. The approach used in the first link is to use BOCHS (pronounced "Box"), which is a VIRTUAL HARDWARE EMULATOR. It requires a host operating system to be functioning in the background, in this case Linux.
As for Ubuntu... well sure. No problem. Its Linux and the phone runs Linux. Not that big of a stretch to replace the Android parts with GNU.
Note that NONE of this is any kind of "great breakthrough". Bochs has been around for a VERY long time. First OPEN SOURCED in early 2000. Yeah, 12 years ago. As for Ubuntu... well I suppose that the main reason that most people aren't making a native android replacement out of ubuntu, is that not many people are all that interested in it. Cute in theory, but not practical.
What would be a more worthy project would be to upgrade android to GNU libraries and utilities. This would afford us an actually USEFUL balance between the two. Also the ability to run X *through* android without having to do stupid things like VNC. Have the proper interface ***AS AN ANDROID APPLICATION***, leaving Android to work (i.e., phone calls, etc.) while simultaneously offering the standard Linux applications.
My thought though, is that this is becoming less and less important. Firefox is on Android now, the Document foundation has announced LibreOffice for Android -- supposed to be by late 2012 to early 2013... GIMP has no place on Android... That certainly covers the basics.
Appreciate the post. I didn't have time to dig into it too deeply, so took it at face value for the impression I got. Happened to come across it in passing and didn't want to lose track of something vital to the future dev of a project like this on the doubleshot. (but definitely this doesn't belong in the dev section at this time - just clutter there.)
I was hoping people would add to it, especially the way you have, who had more of an understanding of what's going on there - I didn't realize that it was a virtual environment for the windows stuff, but it did seem to good to be true.
Even if no one responded I figured the thread would get pushed down out of the way, but still be here when I got the time to come back to it.
----
My reason for running native linux on the device itself is to be able to use the Android SDK and tools without needing a computer to do so. I have 2 of these phones and a Nook Color. The NC has USB host support, so I could plug the doubleshot into it without frying either device. (yes, i'm blending android and linux concepts here - but usb host support in android shows that it's capable of doing it)
Even from one doubleshot to the other I could use wifi adb for a lot of stuff without plugging them into each other through USB and frying the phones. So that would be a victory as well.
The lack of a hardware charging circuit in the doubleshot makes the worry of frying the phones a big deal, power transfer through USB is a big hurdle to jump in management.
Beyond that - the doubleshot is powerful enough on hardware specs to be able to compile a kernel, but that's not gonna happen through a virtual linux install because the overhead is too much. A native install might just be able to do it though. Won't know until I try, but it's worth the work to get to the point of trying, even if it doesn't work out.
The Nook Color probably won't be able to compile a kernel - it's asking too much from a device not really able to handle that.
Getting what I mentioned above to work would mean I could do all my dev work with what fits in my pocket, and let me keep working wherever I am.
I do like the idea of an app to work with this through Android itself - but I don't see how I could use the SDk and variety of user-created tools without a native linux install. Worth pursuing either way though.
If anyone has anything to add, i'd be welcome to hear it. Just understand this is not a project i'm working on or actively pursuing right now - but fully intend to down the line.
Actually blue. There is a thread somewhere that has a step by step on installing ubuntu on gingerbread. I meant to add it when I added the backtrack link. For some reason I didn't, I probably forgot, I actually think the link for it is in the backtrack thread in the sticky.
If I do find it ill let you know.
Sent from my ICS Splashed using Tapatalk
Hi Folks
Just wondering if anyone has seriously considered or is using android on the desktop?
Hear me out here!
Since stopping using windows as my main desktop OS about 18 months ago, I've been enjoying all the fruits that open source has to offer. I think I must have trying nearly every flavour of Debian/Ubuntu distro's and currently using some Mint/Gnome 2 setup. partly due to Unity's immaturity as Multihead desktop and probably part of me can't let go of that "Start" menu analog.
Through all my "testing" however I've still not settled on the right desktop/development environment, I've tried them all, really, I feel like I given pretty much every Window Manager out there a go, I especially like the blank canvas of openbox although I've got real work to do as well, so configuration wise It's not something I want to know right now
Part of my issue is I've got a what I would consider a bit of an edge case when I comes to setup. My current setup is over 3 Monitors ( I was considering 6 but thought I might get whiplash from moving my head too much :laugh: )
Right now I live my live mostly in Terminal Windows and Bash Prompts and do most of my hacking In gedit with some plugins ( maybe not the most productive but it's kinda of working for me at the minute )
After giving the Android x86 project, It got me thinking whether It would be a viable option. I know android certainly has the capability to run over multiple monitors although whether I would have to do a bit of hacking on the Framebuffer internals ( add extra ones etc ) has yet to be investigated.
With regards Android Development it kinda of makes sense to Develop right there in it's native environment ( I'm talking Kernel/System Level here not apps) . Compiling the AOSP etc should still be the same process.
So Yeah, Android on the Desktop - Discuss
I'd be interested if anyone has been crazy/foolhardy/patient enough to go down this road and are just keeping quiet about it and If there's any gotcha's etc to think about before embarking on such a mission.
Android is better off on smartphones and Tablets and Windows in better off on Desktops and Laptops.
As Im an avid gamer, I wouldnot mind having Android on my Desktop. Android has limited no. of good games but Windows dont.
Sent from my GT-i9100 equipped with Grenade Launcher and Remote Explosives
www dot apc dot io
Hope that answers your question.
Sent from my YP-G70 using XDA
nightfire37 said:
www.apc.io
Hope that answers your question.
Sent from my YP-G70 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, That's the kinda of thing, I was not aware of this project/product ( although still vapourware til next month ) At least I'm not crazy for thinking it
I spent a week or 2 only using an hp touchpad, to see if I could get away using it as a desktop replacement.
The biggest problem I found is that the apps aren't really designed for serious productivity. Google docs is great for viewing things, but is very irresponsive on large documents, and doesn't like fancy formatting. Browsing was a nightmare. I had 3 or 4 different browsers, because each had different plugins, flash support, user agents, etc. Many browsers were unstable, and flash always caused random crashes and other weird problems. Gmail is useless for attachements, and there is no reasonable text editor.
It's doable, but you may have to spend a while finding apps to replicate all the functionality you expect from your PC.
trevd said:
Thanks, That's the kinda of thing, I was not aware of this project/product ( although still vapourware til next month ) At least I'm not crazy for thinking it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your welcome. I am thinking on getting this for the fact to support the devs on the product.
Sent from my YP-G70 using XDA
As a desktop replacement I'm not so sure but Android can definitely work as a netbook replacements.
It also depends what you use ur desktop for. Anything more that web browsing and email, I'll still prefer having a full fledged OS on it.
theInfected1 said:
As a desktop replacement I'm not so sure but Android can definitely work as a netbook replacements.
It also depends what you use ur desktop for. Anything more that web browsing and email, I'll still prefer having a full fledged OS on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An android desktop could do mail, web browsing, multimedia, usenet or torrent downloads, games, dlna streaming, ebook reading and text editing (writing, creating pdf, etcetera) well.
It would not be able to do some of the things a desktop can do such as transcode video, run open office, use pc accessories, etcetera.
This is primarily because android is a mobile oriented os though it's likely that other than the use of pc accessories developers will write apps to get android doing even more as it is now a very popular tablet os and tablets often get used as a pc does.
Android could be a desktop for general everyday use right now but not for everyone.
For now windows and linux still beat android for both software, peripheral support and overall os speed making those better options however its also easier to have a new user mess those up than it is to mess up android so for general use it could be a good option.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
Short version: Currently, I would say no. In the future (2+ years minimum), I highly expect Android to compete for the desktop. It comes down to software moreso than hardware.
TL;DR version: Let me start by saying I've owned quite a few Android smartphones, and I've worked on twice as many for friends, family, etc. I've also owned a couple of Android tablets. Without trying to sound too cynical, let's just say I've been around the block when it comes to Android devices When it comes to phones, Android is as perfect as any OS could be. With it always improving, there's always more to love. For tablets, the experience didn't come off to a great start, but there have surely been improvements since. The first high-end tablets, as well as cheap alternatives, ran on Gingerbread or older. My first cheapo tablet ran on a rare version of Android 2.0 Eclair. Let me tell you, it wasn't pleasant at all! I decided to wait for Honeycomb to come out before trying another tablet, and that's when I picked up an Acer Iconia A500 with the sole intention being to use it like I'd use a computer. The only computer I had at the time was a 10" Acer netbook, so once I bought the tablet, I sold the netbook right away. Now, I will admit that I waited a little bit to see how Honeycomb took off. By the time I got my Iconia, 3.2 was just coming out. In order to completely replace any kind of computer, I knew I would need at least 3 accessories: a stand, keyboard, and mouse. In my initial research, I learned that Android 3.0 didn't have mouse support by default. This was fixed by the dev community here, and Google was prompt to add mouse support in the 3.1 update. So by the time I had my Iconia running 3.2, everything appeared to be ready as far as being a PC replacement. Or so I thought. One major reason I picked the A500 over other tablets was the fact that it had a full-size USB port right on the tablet itself, whereas others either didn't have one at all (Xoom, Galaxy Tab), or it was only available on the keyboard dock (Transformer). As a computer replacement, USB was important to me. It didn't take long for me to realize that a tablet as a PC replacement wasn't the most ideal choice at the time. While there are plenty of apps available to perform many different tasks, the real problem I had was with the way Android itself handled. The apps were more than good enough. There's email, web browsing, multimedia, word processing, etc. The problem is the way Android feels with a keyboard and mouse. One major problem for me was that Android has no proper right-click support with mice. It simply works like a back button. I feel that right-click would be more natural as the functionality of a long press. Another issue I was constantly trying to deal with was the amount of clicks required to complete simple tasks. I could do the same tasks twice as fast on any computer running Windows or Linux. This caused more frustration than anything else. File managers were generally really good - there's actually a couple that I really like a lot, but navigation was always an issue. It wasn't only file managers, but within several areas. Once again, this goes back to needing more clicks for the same tasks, and long pressing where a simple right-click would feel better. While the move to ICS was a huge improvement in performance, it didn't really solve anything with productivity and ease of use. USB support was also hit or miss, and a lot of it has to do with drivers. Now that's understandable, as most hardware venders don't expect Android to be the host OS. Hopefully this changes some day. Eventually I ended up trading the tablet and all the accessories for a mid-range laptop which I use now. I have this system triple-booting between Windows, Linux, and Android (android-x86.org). The same problems I faced with the tablet, I also face with ICS on my laptop. I find myself only booting to Android once in a blue moon, and it's always just to show off to my friends. Any real work is done with one of my other OS's. There's definitely a lot of potential with the Android platform as a desktop OS, but I feel like it's still a couple years away at least. There are still a few minor annoyances trying to use Android as a computer that need to be addressed. Maybe by the time Android 6.0 or 7.0 is released, it will put up a good fight for the desktop. Only time will tell. Another viable option is phones that dock to a computer with a desktop interface. Anyone remember Canonical's plans? Also keep in mind Linux kernel 3.3 which adopted Android natively, which is a huge step for Canonical and their Ubuntu-Android dreams.
i have been using android since 2008. The only thing i can tell you is Android can replace netbooks but not laptops and desktop. I used macbook for a year or so but I went back to windows.
HP Touchpad replaced my netbook.70% of the time i use my hp touchpad to chat, browse and play videos.
But when it comes to work or college work I go back to my good ol' desktop or laptop because
google spreadsheet is nowhere near MS Excel
google docs is nowhere near MS Word
fortemcee said:
The only thing i can tell you is Android can replace netbooks but not laptops and desktop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I coming to that conclusion...... More for on the move devices, Although there some good stuff going on with the 10ft Experience (Android on TV's) at the moment.
It is also interesting to hear how people interact with their devices,
I'm far from an average user..... If i'm not developing with/on android I don't what to do with it :laugh: I think that's why my tablet has a keyboard and mouse plugged into most of the time
Thanks for the Input.
Bloodflame said:
Short version: Currently, I would say no. In the future (2+ years minimum), I highly expect Android to compete for the desktop. It comes down to software moreso than hardware.
TL;DR version: ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Brilliant That's exactly the type of responses I hoped for, a man whose got he's knees dirty in these dam robots on the desktop ... little long but I did read it.
[Short Version] In Summary I'm inclined to agree with you give it a couple of years, As a developer I could probably fix it up but I probably wouldn't be finished before google etc sorted it themselves[Short Version]
Here's a more verbose reply :laugh:
I have seen some 2.x tabs in my time, trailblazers but not nice.... I presume you gave the 1.6 x86 one a go as well then? Just for kicks.
I've been using a mouse and keyboard on my tablet, an Archos G9 through a usb hub which also has full size usb slot..... I've never really twicked onto the mouse lack of context menu/right click being an issue until you pointed it out, I can see how it would become an irritant after a while unless you're a MacUser than one button should be fine
The right mouse button acting the same as long press would be a vast improvement, I'll probably have a look at what development effort is involved in that ( or at least add it to the pile of interesting stuff I want to do with my time )
I've found the keyboard to be useful, Shortcut Keys are generally the same as there desktop counterparts. Take Ctrl+L to type a web address in your browser for example and If I dig around the android source code for a while I'm sure I could find some more unpublished ones or add my own and help on the number of click navigation issues etc .
USB Support is not a problem with each iteration of Android it gets better internally and I'm currently working with the opinion that if a linux driver exists I can compile it and at least get android the recognize the device... I've been deep in the USB Internals with android for the last few months.
On the Androidx86.... I've not checked the project in a while, there maybe have greater focus on solving some on these usability issues.
With regard to phones and docking I do remember canonicals plans ( wasn't that earlier this year) or are you talking about the circa 2009/10?!? ubuntu proposed project to run apks directly on your pc? essentially running the dalvikvm/surfaceflinger framebuffer management, support services on ubuntu with an X Window for the app.
The latter I feel is highly possible especially with android fully "unforked" in the kernel - not looked at the full details but I presume that includes all androids system level binder stuff and their shared memory modules and the former, I think a manufacturer release something called "Android in a Window" (Motorola or LG, maybe) An interactive android window on the desktop... also motorola's Webtop looks interesting.
I've written enough, Thanks for the Input
no one found any way to run android on PC or Laptop ???????
saqi4you said:
no one found any way to run android on PC or Laptop ???????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It runs in virtualisation fine and there are a few PC's that can run it natively, I would bet Jelly bean will run on x86 without fuss.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium HD app
I've had android ICS x86 on my Acer W500 (a windows tablet) for a little while now. It was installed along side the Windows 8 Developer Preview which expired and shuts down after a few minutes of use now. Instead of updating it to the W8 Consumer Preview for more time I just started using ICS full time. With my tablet in the "dock" (which is just a keyboard really) and a mouse hooked up I used it for days as a PC replacement (the power supply in my normal desktop died).
Android would be totally fine as a desktop OS, but apps would have to start being designed with that in mind.
Think about it:
You can't have multiple windows open at once on the screen for serious multitasking. What if I want to have a terminal/command prompt open while I reference a document in the web browser? With android I'm going to be switching between fullscreen apps.
The OS will have to be redesigned to allow for that capability and then new apps will have to be written to able to take advantage of it. Is it possible? Absolutely! Is it ready to be your desktop replacement? Not yet!
deathsled said:
Think about it:
You can't have multiple windows open at once on the screen for serious multitasking. What if I want to have a terminal/command prompt open while I reference a document in the web browser? With android I'm going to be switching between fullscreen apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say there is arguments for and against sizeable apps (I suppose that describes it), Personally I run multiple monitors and generally have Maximised Windows all the way, obviously every use case is different but I think android would become "just another window manager" and lose some of what android is If it had totally free window placement.
It is also assuming the current desktop metaphor which is in use today is the best/most productive way of interacting with the machine.... Maybe we're just blindly doing it because we've all be trained to think like that, and it's always been that way.
I don't claim to have the answers on any of these points though
I suppose the only thing I can do is stop talking and start doing, "try it yourself" as we say in the "trade" .....I've got a laptop I could give it a blast on, I can at least try a multiple monitor test with that with out too much disruption.
saqi4you said:
no one found any way to run android on PC or Laptop ???????
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dragon_76 said:
It runs in virtualisation fine and there are a few PC's that can run it natively, I would bet Jelly bean will run on x86 without fuss.
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Click to collapse
You might want to read the full thread guys It's kinda what we're talking about, check the Androidx86 project out if you've never seen it before
Actually with apps like overskreen and the open source standout library which lets apps float, so you can have several open at once on screen together and swap between them, you could multitask with multiple open windows.
It's a new approach but already finding favour on tablets.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
deathsled said:
You can't have multiple windows open at once on the screen for serious multitasking. What if I want to have a terminal/command prompt open while I reference a document in the web browser? With android I'm going to be switching between fullscreen apps.
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If I am doing some coding on my PC (running Ubuntu) I use i3-wm which is a tiling window manager. I find the best option is to have all applications full screen and switch between them quickly using keystrokes. The same thing can be done with a theoretical Android Desktop.
I think the case for an Android Desktop is a strong one. Just looking at mobile phone shops and sites, Android is the most popular firmware for smartphones on the market so the amount of people owning one is only going to increase. With that it means that online communities like this site will get bigger with more people offering support and development. An Android desktop might not have the same look and feel as the smartphone version but if it can emulate the same functionality i.e. the way to do something on a smartphone is the same as on the desktop then the leap from smartphone to desktop won't be so hard for people. As you will have the same underlying platform, the same will apply for developers so it means application development on the Desktop version should in theory be faster.
That's a way of doing it but my preference would be a convergence of devices where say I can plug my smartphone into a docking station which hooks it up with a monitor, keyboard and mouse or like the Assus Padfone where a smartphone can be pluged into a tablet dock which turns it into a tablet.
So, Heres what I'm seeing..
Windows eventually removing their heads from the warm dark places which inspire them, and bridging the gap between Win 8 and WinPhoney.. and giving users back a powerful PDA-like experience where we can once again do powerful things on our devices besides swipe & play games
iPhone6 or iPhone7 actually functioning more like a tablet, the iPad functioning more like a macbook, and people actually getting work done on their phones again.
Both the above phones docking into docking control stations which go to myDP out to Flatscreen + mouse & keyboard, for a Full Office Pocket Computing Combo
and Android clinging to their obsolete wanabe iPhone, pain-in-the-butt smartphone experience they seem overjoyed about... without anyplace to progress to but the dreaded Linux OS, losing all of its users but the current Linux users when the bridge from Phones to Desktops is complete
Google, Apple, & MS working like crazy to be sure phones stay as far away from desktops as possible for as long as possible, by continued slothful micro-trickling of RAM, ROM memory, Internal Memory, GPU & CPU speeds, and very un-user-friendly software which keeps phone users confined to a small phone box to expand their profitability
the rise of Hardware companies like ASUS, Huawei, etc, who offer devices able to support Win8.. Apple quickly changing their game to follow suit, and the inevitable end of this little current SmartPhone-only empire
and Android left diddling themselves making a few diehard Desktop Linux OS Phones
and I dont see Android having much of any future at all in that rapidly approaching time period they seem completely oblivious to.
anyone agree with that forecast & assessment?
Android is very popular among all the OSs & the combination of a cool software & high end latest hardware makes it endlessly happening.
ak070 said:
Android is very popular among all the OSs & the combination of a cool software & high end latest hardware makes it endlessly happening.
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ok.. so the "cool apps" you feel will make it to be "endlessly happening", regardless of the generation or era?
and "the latest hardware" remember is all relative...
You dont think INCREASED hardware capabilities able to support a larger more fully functioning, & more useful OS will make these little apps seem a trivial waste of time?
chinarabbit said:
ok.. so the "cool apps" you feel will make it to be "endlessly happening", regardless of the generation or era?
and "the latest hardware" remember is all relative...
You dont think INCREASED hardware capabilities able to support a larger more fully functioning, & more useful OS will make these little apps seem a trivial waste of time?
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I never mentioned cool apps. I'm talking about the overall OS. Its Open source. So there are many manufacturers that use this OS & come up with their own ideas & devices with different designs which gives users a very wide variety to choose from. And as far as new hardware is concerned, manufacturers like Samsung & Sony use new hardwares to add new features which were never implemented before & completely redefine the 'Smartphone' experience.
I'm not saying that other OSs are bad. It's the matter of one's own taste finally.
Seems to me your assessment is based on your usage/desired usage.....in reality many many people don't really even need a Windows pc, and use the internet primarily for media/social applications, which android favours.
So there will always be a market out there regardless I reckon
Nice fortune telling but i really dont agree ...
ak070 said:
I never mentioned cool apps. I'm talking about the overall OS. Its Open source. So there are many manufacturers that use this OS & come up with their own ideas & devices with different designs which gives users a very wide variety to choose from. And as far as new hardware is concerned, manufacturers like Samsung & Sony use new hardwares to add new features which were never implemented before & completely redefine the 'Smartphone' experience.
I'm not saying that other OSs are bad. It's the matter of one's own taste finally.
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Click to collapse
ya... but is it really just about OSs? or do u think the manufacturers play a larger role in it?
For example, if Samsung & HTC were to create the majority of their devices for use with a new "Windows Mobile 7" because of its design & functionality & usefulness exceeding that of Android - which would inevitably happen, because even though Android is useful for certain things, a Phone OS who encompassed those things, and surpassed it in many others, creating a wider-use platform able to satisfy a broader user base would have to dominate - Dont you think that the number of Android users would dwindle to near nothing?
if every new HTC & Samsung was built with, say, a "Windows Mobile 7" which out-performed Android, and was preferred by companies like ASUS, Huawei, HTC, & Samsung, because of the OS having more use in Government & Job-specific applications that Win CE is often used for, which WinMo 6 started to see a bit of before it was sat on.. Users would of course move from Android to WinMo7, and I really dont see that there would be many android users left at all
Linux is Open Source, yet very few there are who use it & develop for it..
Windows is the largest OS on earth.. Like it or not - like MS or not - developers still create freeware and awesome programs according to the specifications of the device. and if that device allowed for more control, functionality, & customizability, it stands to reason that most devs would migrate as well
If this is a arguent thread well here we go..
i walked into the windows store and messed with the 41mp phone and all i did was spend 10min scrolling down and up to find apps
end of my argument...
androidfoshizzle said:
If this is a arguent thread well here we go..
i walked into the windows store and messed with the 41mp phone and all i did was spend 10min scrolling down and up to find apps
end of my argument...
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Click to collapse
ya, it can get a bit silly... apparently they are alphabetized, and i think you can sort different ways too..
For 100% sure, WindowsPhone will never amount to anything unless its a full Win8 they call WinPhone some day
but I do think win MOBILE 7 is whats needed, and what could sink android.
Android won't sink..Ubuntu will have a phone out that has a full desktop OS by the time windows does anything.. Android is a mobile operating system anyways
sent from 9 month old nexus 4
open source
i agree with androidfoshizzle..linux (android ubuntu) is open source and have many supporters..its free but gives high end support and availability of features.they understood that linux has to become user friendly and it has come to a very reasonable level!
chinarabbit said:
So, Heres what I'm seeing..
Windows eventually removing their heads from the warm dark places which inspire them, and bridging the gap between Win 8 and WinPhoney.. and giving users back a powerful PDA-like experience where we can once again do powerful things on our devices besides swipe & play games
iPhone6 or iPhone7 actually functioning more like a tablet, the iPad functioning more like a macbook, and people actually getting work done on their phones again.
Both the above phones docking into docking control stations which go to myDP out to Flatscreen + mouse & keyboard, for a Full Office Pocket Computing Combo
and Android clinging to their obsolete wanabe iPhone, pain-in-the-butt smartphone experience they seem overjoyed about... without anyplace to progress to but the dreaded Linux OS, losing all of its users but the current Linux users when the bridge from Phones to Desktops is complete
Google, Apple, & MS working like crazy to be sure phones stay as far away from desktops as possible for as long as possible, by continued slothful micro-trickling of RAM, ROM memory, Internal Memory, GPU & CPU speeds, and very un-user-friendly software which keeps phone users confined to a small phone box to expand their profitability
the rise of Hardware companies like ASUS, Huawei, etc, who offer devices able to support Win8.. Apple quickly changing their game to follow suit, and the inevitable end of this little current SmartPhone-only empire
and Android left diddling themselves making a few diehard Desktop Linux OS Phones
and I dont see Android having much of any future at all in that rapidly approaching time period they seem completely oblivious to.
anyone agree with that forecast & assessment?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
fortune teller!
androidfoshizzle said:
Android won't sink..Ubuntu will have a phone out that has a full desktop OS by the time windows does anything.. Android is a mobile operating system anyways
sent from 9 month old nexus 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it already does
The problem with Linux is its just over complicated and not much fun to use.. everytime you want to do something, you have to pull out your programmers reference book.. or google it.
I had thought early on that Android would be a way to enter Google into direct competition with Apple & Windows Desktop OSs, and give us all another viable option..
the problem is two-fold..
1stly, Linux Devs are overly left-brained. and they dont have any creative oversight or people in charge of non-geeky usability engineering.. making Linux the choice of OS for people who enjoy doing what would only be done by IT guys if your computer had serious problems on other OSs
2ndly, Google's own shortsightedness.. their Android dev team has created an implementation of the Powerful Android Platform that is really anything but powerful... and these google OS's are designed inside and out to be phones, and have little use outside the mobile phone market, except as equally-functioning tablets, which make them little more than large phones, without great calling ability
the Ubuntu OS is starting to be developed for Android, rather than the other way around.. its looking more and more like a Phone interface.. It actually seems to be optimized for touch screens, and if not, the developers think "making Linux more user-friendly" means making it work like a phone..
Users want an OS thats fun to use.. we're not all retards... i dont think the devs get the difference.
at any rate, Ubuntu is definitely NOT replacing Win7 or Win8 or OSXs anytime soon, thats much has been made painfully transparent by google..
further, google really wants to make you know you are using a Google product.. it has Google DNA on it from top to bottom.. which is great if you think Google is the way you should be doing all of your computing.
I think, still, a powerful Windows Mobile 7 Solution would quell Android, and take all wind out of its sails, and eventually pretty much squash it for all but Ubuntu Desktop users
But Even given its complexity and difficulty of use, how many of us would still prefer to have a Linux Desktop on our Phone, rather than a Google Phone for our desktop???
I most certainly would
First off, I wanted to say I posted a few threads about this thing here asking questions about stuff I needed to get it working in the way I'd like and I'd want to thank you because I have made a lot of progress in getting it to be what I'd like it to be. I also don't know if this is the best forum to post this report because it's neither a question nor necessarily a tutorial but rather a summary and description of work already done so far, and especially because this device, while it sure runs Android (very well!) does not fit into any of the categories on this site neatly.
The story so far
This post concerns my experience working with the ITX-3588J, a board released just a few months ago by the Chinese manufacturer Firefly (or T-Chip Intelligent Technology Co. Ltd, based in Zhongshan) that is in the coveted mini-ITX form factor which means it can actually fit into a small-size desktop computer case and indeed has enough compute power to theoretically - and perhaps not so theoretically! - function as an honest desktop system with an ARM processor: namely the - also very new - Rockchip RK3588 system-on-a-chip.
About two months ago, I was looking into acquiring a new kind of computer to replace my somewhat longer on the tooth x86 machine that would be compact, low-power, and easy to transport while also being a fully capable desktop. And I certainly didn't want Apple. I had seen some very small form x86 desktops before, but I also knew there were many boards - like Raspberry Pi - that featured the ARM processor. Not content with the Pi, which is still very weak for this application at least when compared against modern software, I wanted to see if there was something else by now in a similar vein, and when I saw this board I thought it was an amazing option, esp. given I have not yet found a peer. Many ARM single-board devices exist but this is the only one I've found so far that looks to be in a proper desktop form factor and sporting a processor powerful enough to work at that level.
So I got the board, a case, and - noting it had SATA ports - a cheap 250 GB SSD, and put it all together ... and fired it up! And to my surprise, it booted up Android! Which was a real shocker because I generally thought this'd be like another PC board, not having had much experience with this ecosystem beyond phones, so that it would just give the usual "OS not found" stuff. Nope - pre-loaded on the board. Very minimal, very bare-bones though, not even the Google Play and similar essentials required for a usable Android experience. Yet with the little bit I had, I couldn't help but notice it was extremely fluid, responsive, and snappy, moreso than my aging 2018 era x86 box. Moreover, it was very, very interesting (and exciting!) to see Android booted onto a full-size monitor screen like Linux or Microsoft Windows - and actually and surprisingly, to see that it didn't look and feel all that bad!
However, of course, I wanted more. First, I wanted a fully-featured installation of Android. Second, I wanted to run Linux on it - especially given that, a short while later, I found that the board manufacturers were offering a stock Ubuntu 20.04 to be installable to it. Although, in the early stages, I didn't know how to do this at all, and then soon after learned how to reflash the embedded MMC chip to change the OS. And I did so, trying the Ubuntu and finding it also very performant, but not liking either that it was not quite the newest version but also more that it was mutually exclusive with Android - so far.
And that would begin a long - and at many times frustrating, especially given how much information out there is not at all tuned to a device like this being pressed into this application - learning journey toward exploring topics as diverse as how ARM processors and SoCs work under the hood, U-Boot, kernel features, the Firefly-Rockchip developer kit - and having to essentially single-handedly discover many of that kit's ins and outs given there was pretty much no documentation - and more, ultimately leading to where I've got it to now.
What it can do at this point
And that is, right now, I have it sitting here, loaded up with the stock Android 12 and Ubuntu 20.04 - with the former on the eMMC and the latter on the SSD hard drive. On the Android side, Google Play is now loaded and functional, though Google Chrome is not (it crashes with a "Telephony is null" exception for some reason, which seems to suggest for some reason it's trying to act like it's on a phone but isn't). Zoom - an app that I really, really wanted to have (and why I wanted to keep Android around on it) - works and works smoother and cleaner than my 2018 x86 Linux clunker. On the Ubuntu side, though, things are not yet coming - mostly because of seeming inability to use U-Boot to boot from the SSD. I managed to install GRUB, and given that Firefly's generous board SDK provides the full U-Boot source code was able to recompile it with the necessary "bootefi" command enabled which is not present in stock, but nonetheless alas this U-Boot seems to have its SATA support bugged or incomplete, because it would crash immediately upon trying to initialize that subsystem.
Where I'd like to go with it
Obviously, full dual boot of Android and Ubuntu, so getting U-Boot to boot the GRUB resident on the hard drive, is the biggest issue so far, and that means investigating whatever is the problem (or not?) in its SATA subsystem. Getting Google Chrome working on Android is another important step. Moreover - though it would cost extra money that I do not have right now - there's the very interesting possibility, owing to the fact that it has a built in M.2 slot on the board, and alluded to in the title - that the device could be made to act as a cell phone. And finally, the possibility of upgrading to a newer version of Ubuntu (ideally 22.04) - however from what I know so far, it looks like this will have to wait because the stock Linux kernels do not currently support the RK3588 fully - though I'd suggest the Linux kernel developers really should take a look at the SDK that came with this thing because it has lots of code in it including for the kernel, all under GPL.
Final note
One of the most interesting things I've learned from this project, and mentioned earlier, is just how well Android seems to work as a desktop OS. While there have apparently been some attempts to port it to x86, this is perhaps one of the first devices that is desktop-workable and which runs it natively. And one of the things I find that's nice about it is that ironically, because all the apps are designed for small screens, when they are run on a very big screen (and this monitor is not "very big" even by today's monitor standards, being a used and earlier LCD type), they are extremely easy on the eyes and have minimal UI clutter when compared to a typical desktop app on most Linux WMs and on MS Windows.
If you want to know more about the details, or anything else, feel free to ask any questions you might have!
UPDATE:
I believe I may have found an easier way to dual-boot Linux with Android, and that consists of configuring a custom ROM that will put both kernels, and GRUB, on the board's eMMC, while the rootfs for both OSes is placed on the hard disk. Will be seeing how it works.
UPDATE:
I have almost completed the custom ROM! I have now both Android and at least the base system for Ubuntu 20.04 (Kernel 5.10.66) bootable with Android now storing user data on the hard drive; though I'm still running into some hardware initialization issues in the latter that are keeping me from actually installing the desktop system. With regard to the Ubuntu system, there is some interesting issue in that for some reason the provided SDK kernel, which I had to rebuild, seems to build more Android-like because it wants to look in "/vendor" for some things related seemingly to the networking facilities, and it is possible this is preventing me from bringing up wifi, which I need in order to download the rest of the system.
But lots of progress overall - it seems that a full-fledged ARM desktop running simultaneously Android and Ubuntu is within reach to be wrung from this board!
Ignore my request for an update in another post. Seems you like you moving along. I don't need dual boot, just a working Android 12 with GPlay and Chrome. Did you get Chrome to work?
mebalzer said:
Ignore my request for an update in another post. Seems you like you moving along. I don't need dual boot, just a working Android 12 with GPlay and Chrome. Did you get Chrome to work?
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Thanks. Yeah, I want to say that I have pretty successfully gotten Android 12 working on it for sure, but Ubuntu is proving much more difficult due to graphics support issues, and I'm not sure if it will be possible until RK3588 is supported in the mainline Linux kernel tree which is still something under development. And yes! I got Chrome to work Everything works, actually - it's great as an Android system, though obviously Android is kinda funny to use as a desktop OS. I am wondering if I can't get a "pseudo" Linux using something like Linux Deploy in lieu of running it natively, at least until the kernel development catches up with this new processor.
(FWIW, I'm posting this post from that machine while it is running A12. )
Good to see someone else is interested in it, though. What are you planning on using yours for?
Insofar as getting Android 12 to work w/GApps - it depends on if you want to do it purely on the eMMC or you want to also put user data on an attached hard drive like I did. In either case, the best option, I feel, is to create a custom ROM - I could provide custom ROMs for it for download, but don't know because of Google's licensing conditions around the GApps and have heard of people getting in trouble with Google for distributing custom ROMs for phones that have GApps in them. You basically need to unpack the stock Android image, unpack the "super.img", then load the apps from a package like NikGApps into the "product" partition (NOT "oem" - that was a big mistake), then repack everything and flash to the eMMC again. You will need the board SDK from Firefly for all this as it has the custom ROM-packing and flashing tools.
Alternatively, it is possible to manually install the NikGApps GApps using the Android console - as it's a fully unlocked system, obtaining root access is trivial: just put it into Developer mode and you will find the root access in the "Developer options..." menu under "System".
Shimmy99 said:
Insofar as getting Android 12 to work w/GApps - it depends on if you want to do it purely on the eMMC or you want to also put user data on an attached hard drive like I did. In either case, the best option, I feel, is to create a custom ROM - I could provide custom ROMs for it for download, but don't know because of Google's licensing conditions around the GApps and have heard of people getting in trouble with Google for distributing custom ROMs for phones that have GApps in them. You basically need to unpack the stock Android image, unpack the "super.img", then load the apps from a package like NikGApps into the "product" partition (NOT "oem" - that was a big mistake), then repack everything and flash to the eMMC again. You will need the board SDK from Firefly for all this as it has the custom ROM-packing and flashing tools.
Alternatively, it is possible to manually install the NikGApps GApps using the Android console - as it's a fully unlocked system, obtaining root access is trivial: just put it into Developer mode and you will find the root access in the "Developer options..." menu under "System".
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Click to collapse
Thanks I will keep this in mind. See my reply to you other reply on another post as well.
I would to run gplay as well please send me instruction the nikapps github doesnt say nothing