ok saw a post on the sprint hero boards and wanted to ask over here aswell since the g1 area has a lot more developers for it.
would porting webOS to an android phone seem possible? I had a palm pre for a bit was cool and fast, I like android more but the thought of running it would be cool
Noooooooooo
You mean porting over apps?
or running webOS on your phone?
In a word:
No.
In more words:
We need drivers. There are no WebOS drivers for Android devices. Many of the existing drivers that we need are proprietary, meaning (and I'm not sure on this part) most likely the hardware specifications necessary to write drivers are closed as well. If they are not closed, it would be possible--but not for a team of geeks like XDA. You'd need a major entity, like Google, to do it, which won't happen. Besides, not all of WebOS is completely open-source, just like not ALL of what goes into Android phones is. It's just not possible--even if the driver issue could be overcome, which it can't.
Yet another word:
This is a question, so it belongs in Q&A. Not to be a jerk or anything, but just letting you know, so next time you can post there.
Doesn't seem possible at this current time however I disagree with the post above if all of xda devs came together then it might be possible due to the fact cyanogen im guessing could make his own drivers etc. However as said above it would not be possible due to the fact it is not completely open-source
ps: Why would you want webOS it is nothing compared to android - IF you agree then post back with this a smile ^_^
xillius200 said:
Doesn't seem possible at this current time however I disagree with the post above if all of xda devs came together then it might be possible due to the fact cyanogen im guessing could make his own drivers etc. However as said above it would not be possible due to the fact it is not completely open-source
ps: Why would you want webOS it is nothing compared to android - IF you agree then post back with this a smile ^_^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you ever written a device driver? You need detailed spec of the interfaces of the piece of hardware you're trying to talk to. Without them you're trying to build the Empire State Building blindfolded with a teaspoon and pair of pliers.
linuxluver said:
Have you ever written a device driver? You need detailed spec of the interfaces of the piece of hardware you're trying to talk to. Without them you're trying to build the Empire State Building blindfolded with a teaspoon and pair of pliers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay so simply put we would need MacGyver to write the drivers...
you know, none of this is true, as the drivers for all of the HTC android phones have the drivers built into the kernel (as opposed to running as modules with the exception of wifi) because of GPL, they have released this information, albeit kinda late (*cough* CDMA hero) one stumbling block is how WebOS is going to interface with the drivers may be different, keep in palm has its kernel modifications "drivers" also available (once again because of GPL) so if interfacing is different, it COULD possibly be reverse engineered... the actual WebOS platform IS closed source however, making this all much much more difficult.
http://developer.htc.com/
http://opensource.palm.com/
dont let anyone tell you its impossible, its not. Are you going to port it? No, if you had to start this thread, then its not likely.
mbazdell said:
Okay so simply put we would need MacGyver to write the drivers...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rofl..............
Napoleon said:
Impossible is a word only to be found in the dictionary of fools.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That said I like my android
linuxluver said:
Have you ever written a device driver? You need detailed spec of the interfaces of the piece of hardware you're trying to talk to. Without them you're trying to build the Empire State Building blindfolded with a teaspoon and pair of pliers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also yeah without knowing about the phone it is like building the empire state building. That's why you buy the phone open it up find details on the phone first off and try and figure it out by taking a long look and experimenting otherwise you will never get anywhere. It is like life without actually doing it and just saying about it you will never achieve it so you do it
If Cyanogen or another dev decided to do this it is not impossible as long as they know how to build a device driver which i know 4 of the devs on here can do it is not impossible. The question is would they actually do this project?
Personally I do not see a point in this project if you wanted a webOS why didn't you buy a palm sry if i may sound a little rude but it is the truth why buy a android?
If i may have sounded rude in the sentence above i am very sry you can shun me down
xillius200 said:
For linux once never went my way and stop having a go i was just voicing my opinion it is a free country im just saying with cyanogenmod, Wesgarner, Ctso, Kingklick etc. we stand a great chance at doing it and i bet cyan must have made a device driver before. so please don't go off on one i don't care if this get's made as stated below android is better anyway so get off my back linuxluver and stop being a jackass all I was trying to say is it could be done and not impossible you are making it sound like we have no hope in hell.
ps: I only wan't to come on here to chat and make friends not to be abused
ps2: Also yeah without knowing about the phone it is like building the empire state building. That's why you buy the phone open it up find details on the phone first off and try and figure it out without taking a long look and experimenting you will never get anywhere. It is like life without actually doing it and just saying about it you will never achieve it so you do it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You really have no idea whatsoever as to how computer hardware works. Like the other person said, there just isn't a chance in hell of a small group of people working in their free time without the cooperation of hardware manufacturers to do what you're saying.
Look at AOSP, think of all the people working on it, and we still don't have everything working on it correctly. And that's with an open-source OS, not to mention Android was meant to use on these HTC phones anyway.
Web OS is really nice but doesn't seem very popular considering only 2 phones have it while. 10+ phones will come out with Android. I bet if this was done the person asking would use it for like a month then go to another ROM. Which means all that work trying to make drivers would go in vain.
xencor said:
You really have no idea whatsoever as to how computer hardware works. Like the other person said, there just isn't a chance in hell of a small group of people working in their free time without the cooperation of hardware manufacturers to do what you're saying.
Look at AOSP, think of all the people working on it, and we still don't have everything working on it correctly. And that's with an open-source OS, not to mention Android was meant to use on these HTC phones anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So is a small group of people not good enough look at bill gates for example creator of microsoft started of with the apple man 2 people now we have microsoft windows and apple so are you saying a small group of people can't do something amazing every now and again?
Also i do not care about webOS i hate webOS in fact i just wanted to extract my opinion and further fourth nothing is impossible look at wireless electricity about a few years ago seen as a myth now look at it. This could be done one day maybe not now but sometime in the future. Most of webOS is in java anyway and most of it is using dbus.
I thought that emulating it on a jvm may be possible? like freedsb running over the top of windows in a vm.
Also all those who port drivers from windows to linux and max to windows etc. have no help from the manafacturers and they still manage to do it and they work alone.
Im not going to voice my opinion in this thread again i have had enough with people who don't let people talk their mind all it was was an opinion nothing more and a possible chance of it working instead of it sounding like it's impossible unless you try you will never know and that is that stuff this thread i have had enough with you people i am out of here don't bother replying to this because i will not read it.
xillius200 said:
So is a small group of people not good enough look at bill gates for example creator of microsoft started of with the apple man 2 people now we have microsoft windows so youre point is?
Also i do not care about webOS i hate webOS in fact i just wanted to extract my opinion and further fourth nothing is impossible look at wireless electricity about a few years ago seen as a myth now look at it. This could be done one day maybe not now but sometime in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do the developers on XDA have a source of revenue that I'm unaware of? Do they have billions of dollars in profits that spurn growth and encourage new, more experienced developers to join the business and help? Is there even a business at all?
The answer is no. There is no R&D department behind XDA. There is no venture capital firm supporting cyanogen or kingklick with money.
Again, you really have no idea what you're talking about. This isn't just a "take open the phone, look at the serial number on the board, and then write your own driver." This is something that computer manufacturers spend years developing their own proprietary code and then design specific chipsets to work with it. Years and money, lots and lots of money.
And you're still forgetting that webOS and even parts of android are not open sourced, which complicates it even further, even to the extent of making a webOS port technically illegal under copyright laws.
xencor said:
not to mention Android was meant to use on these HTC phones anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not 100% true, both android and WebOS run on top of the linux kernel, drivers are already written, like I said, its not a rewrite of drivers, rather interfacing with hardware may be different, but thanks to GPL, we can more easily figure out how the software interfaces with the drivers since we have drivers (albeit for some different hardware) for both Palm AND Android devices... obviously this would all be no easy task... but hell, android work tits on my Kaiser, with the radio/sms/wifi/camera/gps.... and it WASN'T designed to run android!
something else to mention I suppose is the work done to get Mer Linux (Open source replacement for Maemo) running on the Kaiser/Vogue, it booted and its X system worked enough to get to setup information, albeit the screen was too low of a res to do much and it has far too little ram to be useful... let me put it this way... it would be entirely possible for someone to port WebOS over, though the radio/BT/Wifi/accel/etc. may not work initially. I'd be stoked to try out test builds, and I think so would MANY other people.
*broken down: android wasnt meant to run on these phones, linux was meant to, and android was meant to run on top of that*
xencor said:
Do the developers on XDA have a source of revenue that I'm unaware of? Do they have billions of dollars in profits that spurn growth and encourage new, more experienced developers to join the business and help? Is there even a business at all?
The answer is no. There is no R&D department behind XDA. There is no venture capital firm supporting cyanogen or kingklick with money.
Again, you really have no idea what you're talking about. This isn't just a "take open the phone, look at the serial number on the board, and then write your own driver." This is something that computer manufacturers spend years developing their own proprietary code and then design specific chipsets to work with it. Years and money, lots and lots of money.
And you're still forgetting that webOS and even parts of android are not open sourced, which complicates it even further, even to the extent of making a webOS port technically illegal under copyright laws.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have already said in my earlier post that it is not open-source so read b4 you post and even the smallest one man on his own can do someting incredible look at DA cracked the psp 14-15yo and wrote his own drivers and software and look at the ps3 hacker who has found exploit through the memory neither of them have a company or backing just normal people and are you saying that is not possible?
i will not talk any longer all in all webOS is a stupid idea it could be possible one day and end of
ps: I don't like but jmhalder is cool
jmhalder said:
not 100% true, both android and WebOS run on top of the linux kernel, drivers are already written, like I said, its not a rewrite of drivers, rather interfacing with hardware may be different, but thanks to GPL, we can more easily figure out how the software interfaces with the drivers since we have drivers (albeit for some different hardware) for both Palm AND Android devices... obviously this would all be no easy task... but hell, android work tits on my Kaiser, with the radio/sms/wifi/camera/gps.... and it WASN'T designed to run android!
something else to mention I suppose is the work done to get Mer Linux (Open source replacement for Maemo) running on the Kaiser/Vogue, it booted and its X system worked enough to get to setup information, albeit the screen was too low of a res to do much and it has far too little ram to be useful... let me put it this way... it would be entirely possible for someone to port WebOS over, though the radio/BT/Wifi/accel/etc. may not work initially. I'd be stoked to try out test builds, and I think so would MANY other people.
*broken down: android wasnt meant to run on these phones, linux was meant to, and android was meant to run on top of that*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for talking some sense on the subject that it is possible thank you very much i respect you because you think anything is possible you may go far in the world. the one's who never try may never know and for that will fall behind. You are the only one on here who talks sense and for that i applaud you
ps: Very Much thanks from Xillius200 for believing it to be possible instead of just shooting it down
ps2: It takes a true person to not give up and takes a less person to give up straight away so never give up
xillius200 said:
I have already said in my earlier post that it is not open-source so read b4 you post and even the smallest one man on his own can do someting incredible look at DA cracked the psp 14-15yo and wrote his own drivers and software and look at the ps3 hacker who has found exploit through the memory neither of them have a company or backing just normal people and are you saying that is not possible?
i will not talk any longer all in all webOS is a stupid idea it could be possible one day and end of
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DA did not write his own drivers. "Cracking" and using existing drivers is not nearly the same thing, nor is using a loophole in a PS3 memory chip.
Again, i'm sorry, but you just have no idea what you're talking about.
As someone else has pointed out by now, it might actually be possible to get webOS on an android phone, but that's only because the drivers already exist, not because cyanogen and XDA are gods and can do what you're proposing.
xencor said:
DA did not write his own drivers. "Cracking" and using existing drivers is not nearly the same thing, nor is using a loophole in a PS3 memory chip.
Again, i'm sorry, but you just have no idea what you're talking about.
As someone else has pointed out by now, it might actually be possible to get webOS on an android phone, but that's only because the drivers already exist, not because cyanogen and XDA are gods and can do what you're proposing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not calling them gods writing different drivers seperate to a device is possible and DA did write some of his own drivers for the psp for addons and linking to the pc. Also to gain access to the memory he had to make a device and write a driver for it that devices already came wth a driver but he wrote his own. This was a different person XD
And i have had enough i am out of here dont know why the hell we are argueing you do not know much about android either so leave it at that and keep the forum open
I here by cease this fighting going on and say good day
Related
So, having caught up on my reading about the Kaiser using standard software video drivers instead of hardware I have to ask what to me is an obvious question:
Why can one of our chefs not "acquire" the drivers from a WM6 device with the same chip and bake them into a Kaiser ROM?
Incidentally does the chip vendor have any reference drivers?
Or am I missing something here?
James
No reference drivers are available.
Attempts have been made at making drivers from another device using the same chip work on our HTC products, so far it got us nothing.
We won't see a new HTC device using the same chipset again so "porting" drivers from a newer HTC product is also out of the question.
So.....
Either HTC coughs up the drivers.
Someone with a lot of spare time and intimare knowledge "rips" the drivers from another device such as the LG KS20.
Someone with even more time and knowledge writes new drivers (not very likely to say the least).
undac said:
Someone with a lot of spare time and intimare knowledge "rips" the drivers from another device such as the LG KS20.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Chainfire already tried this if anybody bothers to read through the OpenGL ES thread, especially, the new people near the end of the thread.
Nobody has tried to cook a rom of it though that I know of, and cooking means all of the linked driver files, not this one file people are passing around like a pot hit.
However, I think Chainfire was pretty thorough and it's not likely cooking would be any more successful.
a KS20 ROM can be ported to Kaiser? (i mean, all generic and hardware drivers) and then make an Hybrid with another kaiser WM6 or WM6.1 rom? it could work..
NuShrike said:
Chainfire already tried this if anybody bothers to read through the OpenGL ES thread, especially, the new people near the end of the thread.
Nobody has tried to cook a rom of it though that I know of, and cooking means all of the linked driver files, not this one file people are passing around like a pot hit.
However, I think Chainfire was pretty thorough and it's not likely cooking would be any more successful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I can remember Chainfire did try to cook it (he was refering to constant reflashing in the other thread).
And all due respect to Chainfire but I'm sure he's not the only person in the world who could potentially pull this off.
From my point of view he just proved that it certainly isn't going to be easy, not that it is impossible.
undac said:
From what I can remember Chainfire did try to cook it (he was refering to constant reflashing in the other thread).
And all due respect to Chainfire but I'm sure he's not the only person in the world who could potentially pull this off.
From my point of view he just proved that it certainly isn't going to be easy, not that it is impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed I did do multiple attempts of cooking, with uncountable different versions, hacks, etc. You don't even want to know all the things I've done to get it to work. In the end it was all fruitless and I decided I had spent enough precious time on it without satisfactory results. I don't believe it is impossible at all (just nasty) and there are probably a sizable number of people, some here on XDA, even who could possibly do it, given enough time and access to relevant devices. I am neither a noob nor a novice in these matters, but I will happily admit that this is beyond me and will remain so unless I spend a couple hundred more hours ont it (which I won't - sure I have many more ideas how to fix the remaining issues, but I have a company to run and don't think it's worth it).
Furthermore, another reason I stopped trying to do it is because the KS20 drivers have their own issues, so even if it did work, it's still is not a fix-all solution, which eventually makes the whole thing not worth investing hundreds of hours. Not to say it would be impossible to combine the good from Kaiser with the good from KS20 etc. It's a time thing.
It's also possible the WM6.1 releases resolve a couple of compatibility issues - though not very likely - to be honest I haven't even looked at that yet.
As for the D3Dm file that is going around... Complete and utter nonsense, as posted in other threads (with explenation), don't let it get you.
Sorry if I'm thread jacking.
Chainfire,
It seems that the official response from HTC has quieted us down a lot. I'm not seeing very much going on anymore since then. Have we all kinda lost hope and feel it's time to throw in the towel? Or maybe it's just in my head and we are all still fighting hard to get HTC to fix this for us.
Also, I read a lot of replies where HTC said they are working on a fix for mid to late feb but I think those were false reports.
ericc191 said:
Sorry if I'm thread jacking.
Chainfire,
It seems that the official response from HTC has quieted us down a lot. I'm not seeing very much going on anymore since then. Have we all kinda lost hope and feel it's time to throw in the towel? Or maybe it's just in my head and we are all still fighting hard to get HTC to fix this for us.
Also, I read a lot of replies where HTC said they are working on a fix for mid to late feb but I think those were false reports.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Things are still going on, all I can say (just painstakingly slow)
This may help...
I was recently at the "pocket hack master" website (i cant remember the name of the company) and as far as I know, they are trying to work out a solution to the qualcomm chip in our kaisers... I doubt theyll be able to provide the missing drivers, but hopefully will atleast provide a boost in the screen response for our phones.
I think the pocket hack master guys are trying to find a way to overclock the processor, not write new drivers for it. It would help response times to overclock but It won't make up for the lack of drivers. Just imagine if we had those drivers and were able to overclock. I would be pretty sure-footed about bragging that my phone was an Iphone killer. Our phone has the potential to be a bad motherfu$%er, I just wish that HTC gave a ****e about what it's customer base thought, and less about how much money they can milk out of each device. If they released those drivers, in my opinion they would have created the Iphone killer before the damn Iphone even reared it's fruity face. I used to take pride in owning HTC devices, they were the best devices available at one time. Tides have changed, and now HTC's got some competition, and in my opinion, they are failing to stand their ground. I still love my kaiser, but next time I buy a device this whole driver debacle is gonna be whispering over my shoulder telling me to go for the Eten glofiish, or some other windows mobile device, and in the end, may be the deciding factor in leaving behind my high school mobile sweetheart. Dammit I want them drivers lol. Anyways, rant over. Sorry for threadjackin'. Cheers!
sWuRv said:
I think the pocket hack master guys are trying to find a way to overclock the processor, not write new drivers for it. It would help response times to overclock but It won't make up for the lack of drivers. Just imagine if we had those drivers and were able to overclock. I would be pretty sure-footed about bragging that my phone was an Iphone killer. Our phone has the potential to be a bad motherfu$%er, I just wish that HTC gave a ****e about what it's customer base thought, and less about how much money they can milk out of each device. If they released those drivers, in my opinion they would have created the Iphone killer before the damn Iphone even reared it's fruity face. I used to take pride in owning HTC devices, they were the best devices available at one time. Tides have changed, and now HTC's got some competition, and in my opinion, they are failing to stand their ground. I still love my kaiser, but next time I buy a device this whole driver debacle is gonna be whispering over my shoulder telling me to go for the Eten glofiish, or some other windows mobile device, and in the end, may be the deciding factor in leaving behind my high school mobile sweetheart. Dammit I want them drivers lol. Anyways, rant over. Sorry for threadjackin'. Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
couldnt agree more, well said. im sure we'll find a fix soon enough, there are a lot of talented individuals who dwell on this site... something will rise from the abyss, i can feel the breakthrough coming lol and we'll all shout from the rooftops... "haha apple, victory is mine" like stewey griffin but till that day... we'll just have to wait and wait and wait for htc to tilt some new drivers our way. but yes... rant over
Chainfire said:
Furthermore, another reason I stopped trying to do it is because the KS20 drivers have their own issues, so even if it did work, it's still is not a fix-all solution, which eventually makes the whole thing not worth investing hundreds of hours. Not to say it would be impossible to combine the good from Kaiser with the good from KS20 etc. It's a time thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've tried disassembling the drivers from the top down since we know how the API from D3D/OpenGL works, we just don't know how to interface with the Qualcomm crap. But sadly it going to take a lot of time, and the last time I touched ARM-like assembly was on the 65816. x86 experience doesn't apply.
I do appreciate the Kaiser is more powerful cpu and graphics-wise than the PSP and the DS, but oh well.
Thanks Chainfire.
NuShrike said:
I've tried disassembling the drivers from the top down since we know how the API from D3D/OpenGL works, we just don't know how to interface with the Qualcomm crap. But sadly it going to take a lot of time, and the last time I touched ARM-like assembly was on the 65816. x86 experience doesn't apply.
I do appreciate the Kaiser is more powerful cpu and graphics-wise than the PSP and the DS, but oh well.
Thanks Chainfire.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The MSM7200 is more powerful than what's in the DS and PSP? lol
NuShrike said:
I do appreciate the Kaiser is more powerful cpu and graphics-wise than the PSP and the DS, but oh well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wll not quite as good as the PSP but certainly a bit better than the DS, according to Qualcomms own comparison charts at least.
ericc191 said:
The MSM7200 is more powerful than what's in the DS and PSP? lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unless you'd just agreed with me,
DS: yes (ARM9 + ARM7 + specialized multimedia): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_DS#Technical_specifications
PSP: toss-up (custom mips cores w custom chip support): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Portable#Design_and_specifications
page 4: http://brew.qualcomm.com/bnry_brew/pdf/brew_2007/Tech-303_Ligon.pdf
NuShrike said:
I've tried disassembling the drivers from the top down since we know how the API from D3D/OpenGL works, we just don't know how to interface with the Qualcomm crap. But sadly it going to take a lot of time, and the last time I touched ARM-like assembly was on the 65816. x86 experience doesn't apply.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everyone thanks for all the responses. Full disclosure: I work on the technical end of High Tech, although at the opposite extreme: Big, bad ass servers and clusters. I too am no ARM assembly guru, but I have messed quite extensively with some ARM based home NAS devices. I'm not dissing anyone, but I guess I should have been more specific in my question and asked for more specific answers:
WinCE like the rest of the Windows family has standard APIs for graphics, with all the nasty, bare-metal stuff abstracted into device drivers (HAL/whatever). Current WinCE (i.e. WM) uses a (somewhat compatible with the Win32/64 systems) DirectX model. The other reason for doing this is so hardware vendors (I'm looking at YOU Qualcomm!) don't have to expose their IP to the world in return THEY have to code the drivers. It's more complicated here since the MSM7200 does more than just drive the display. However the graphics driver portion of the drivers will remain constant across implementations of the chip.
So: Can someone who's actually tried this explain the issues that they ran into when attempting to extract the drivers from another device's ROM and run them on the Kaiser? Is there a list somewhere of systems that use the MSM7200 with WinCE? If we make this a community effort then we can eliminate dead ends very quickly.
Additionally, since HTC seems to be a lost cause: Has anyone approached Qualcomm directly? Something along the lines of: "You're taking a black eye with a very influential group of developers, early adopters and enthusiats. All you have to do to fix this is release the WinCE reference binary graphics drivers for the MSM7200 (no open source required!) to the xda developers forum and let them carry it from there. It doesn't cost you anything, doesn't open up any IP that couldn't be reverse engineered from existing products by a competitor anyway, and it earns you acclimation with an influential group and the type of positive publicity money can't buy. It shouldn't hurt your customer HTC either as they aren't responsible for support for non-official firmware anyway. If the carriers are worried about unlocking, that horse has bolted already, and making the graphics driver issue die down would radically decrease the publicity associated with the device and hence the odds of a carrier user discovering the unlock tools. From a licensing perspective, presumably HTC gets an end-user license with each chip anyway, even if they chose (unwisely) to not integrate and distribute the MSM7200's hardware accelerated graphics drivers."
It's called negotiation. Respect the IP, explain the impact in financial and business terms of future sales, decreased sales risk, and positive publicity. (It helps to try not to look or sound like Eric Raymond too... )
If anyone from Qualcomm is lurking and reading this, feel free to PM me. I'd be only too happy to explain how one "sells" this sort of thing internally to management. Been there, done that, printed my own damn T-shirts.
I don't know SpecG, would someone who does know the organization comment on any applicability here?
James
friends.. Im so sad with the performance in Divx of kaiser.. I had a hermes, and it is great running high quality divx..
I think the driver solution will come with WM7, I hope!!!
and if we make an overclock? L26 wm6.1 comes with an app to overclock kaiser...
jgmdean said:
So: Can someone who's actually tried this explain the issues that they ran into when attempting to extract the drivers from another device's ROM and run them on the Kaiser?
[snip]
Additionally, since HTC seems to be a lost cause: Has anyone approached Qualcomm directly?
[snip]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even when all dependencies from grabbing all of the KS20 driver files have been satisfied, booting with the KS20 DDI.dll will cause the Kaiser to hang. There's some hardware specifics either cooked in, or something is misunderstood/missed.
Can't expect a driver blob from Qualcomm because rumor has it they themselves don't have any drivers. They were so closed on IP, they wouldn't even let ATI write some drivers for them, and so Qualcomm did a ****e job trying. So rumor has it that Qualcomm is being more humble now, but it's one of those situations where Qualcomm hardware is nothing more than a poison pill.
i like to thank Chainfire for all the effort he has done
and slowly all experts are goin to collect info and miising pieces
and probably after some time we will have a solution
Anyway another thing is overclocking which might helped a bit and since even that isnt here either think we stuck for a while thanks for your time
satiros
Just a question : Did somebody of skilled cheafs around here take a look into HTC Shift drivers (as far as I now this device have also Qualcom MSM 7200 and Intel Intel Stealey) ?
i dont have an andorid device or anything (yet) but its a known fact that the Palm Pre's OS (WebOS) which may turn out to be a success is run under linux as is the Android platform. Now im no programmer but from hearing that i might think that it could be possibly ported and it could be easier to do than Winmo
flame away if im totally nuts
but is it possible???
i think this is a good ? imo! It would be something to tinker with but since the phone just came out 1'st you would have to find somebody willing to dump the os
You're gay. Why can you think that ?
funbacon said:
You're gay. Why can you think that ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Talk about something that is completely uncalled for. Have you ever heard of constructive criticism or is that another concept that is lost in translation to you?
Gimpeh said:
Talk about something that is completely uncalled for. Have you ever heard of constructive criticism or is that another concept that is lost in translation to you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In his defense, he did say "flame away" I do agree with you though...not called for.
I think that it would be a difficult undertaking even if it is able to be done. I don't know if it can be done, however, I do know that IF it can, someone here at xda will do it.
mike21pr said:
i dont have an andorid device or anything (yet) but its a known fact that the Palm Pre's OS (WebOS) which may turn out to be a success is run under linux as is the Android platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WebOS is based on linux, but it's not linux any more than Mac OSX is unix. It's not easily transferrable by simply scraping the files out and dumping them on another device. Drivers have to be written for hardware and to account for buttons that the Pre/intended device does not have.
Android is easy to port because it's open, the source (which shows how the software works down to the smallest code) can be downloaded by anybody and tinkered with. Palm will not be releasing the source of WebOS to the community, so any hacking or porting is significantly more difficult.
Now, should it be attempted? At this point, probably not. If you want WebOS, jump on Sprint's dying network to grab one.
Personally, I don't see Palm making a comeback very well, especially if they've chosen Sprint as their premier network. As a former Sprint customer, I can certainly say that they're a sinking ship right now. Neither the Instinct nor the Pre will be able to raise them up again, they have to go further than just 'cool' hardware.
And as for WebOS, see where it stands in a few months. All news was quiet on more Android phones for about three months after it was released, but by then, the amount of applications (and the release of paid applications) and users gave the phone the momentum it needed. If WebOS obtains that kind of momentum, great, then it might be good to consider. But until it attains the kind of ubiquity that Windows Mobile or Android will hold, it's a bit of an early jump, no?
We might as well port the iPhone OS to the Dream.
jordanjay29 said:
We might as well port the iPhone OS to the Dream.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NOOOOOOO i will break your phone if you do that, we bought these phones for their openess, not to be locked down by apple.
Not the mention that WebOS is build for an OMAP3 CPU, which has the ARM7 based architecture. So without the source, we may never be able to port it over properly.)
Is WebOS opensource? Or only the linux that it runs on?
ivanmmj said:
Is WebOS opensource? Or only the linux that it runs on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The latter.
I don't think Palm is forward-thinking (or cash-flush) enough nowadays to open source webOS. This (as well as the whole one-foot-in-the-grave situation of the past five years) makes me think that despite webOS' flashiness, it may not have much longevity.
I wonder if Palm will license out webOS though. They have licensed out Palm OS in the past, so it's not out of the question. I don't think they can compete in the marketplace if they try copying apple with a single-licensee strategy. Not when options like Android, Symbian, and WinMo can be found on multiple devices from many manufacturers on many carriers.
Good idea. Just to give people an option is pretty cool.
funbacon said:
You're gay. Why can you think that ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't it about time this guy gets banned? 90% of his posts are ripping on somebody or their work.
I'm all for another OS to get ported to the dream just for kicks, and to contrast how great and versatile android really is . I must agree with many above in saying it would be very difficult and a long way off if so.
Buster3616 said:
Isn't it about time this guy gets banned? 90% of his posts are ripping on somebody or their work.
I'm all for another OS to get ported to the dream just for kicks, and to contrast how great and versatile android really is . I must agree with many above in saying it would be very difficult and a long way off if so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i was thinking of porting android to the pre... made a post about this too.
First, let me say up front that I have the utmost respect for the developers in the Captivate forum. It's a handicapped device that has much more potential than I think we'll ever be able to tap, simply because there isn't much motivation for Samsung to fix its biggest issues. Let's face it: The things we like most about our favorite Android handsets are precisely the things that make them seem "too complex" to the non non-technical general public. I think that the Galaxy S line has been a huge dissapointment to enthusiasts, and a big "ooh, ahh" for the iPhone-types.
That being said, let me move on to my main gripe: Through my Droid Incredible, I fell in love with flashing ROMs. If it had a higher build number, I flashed it. And you know why? Because it was better a better build. Newer baseband versions fixed more problems than it caused. I could flash ROMs on a train versus needing to be at my desktop for an exhaustive multi-step shamble. And when ROMs were released from build to build, developers in general knew what to expect as far as results.
I simply can't say that that's true with the Captivate. I'm growing increasingly frustrated with this phone and it's idiocy. I hate having ROMs with "Beta 9.3.5" after their title. I hate that half of the releases are to take out some Samsung crap, replace it with some AOSP-like goodness, just to see what sticks.
Again, it's not a condemnation of the Devs. They have made this phone tolerable, which is no small task. I just think it's a sad state of affairs when an OS based on an open source foundation has been so brutally slapped together that it makes a phone with the looks and hardware specs of a Ferrari about as much fun to own and maintain as a Yugo.
Who's with me on this one?
EDIT:
I'm keeping my original post above, partly because there have been too many responses to make removing it reasonable, and partly because I'd like something to review the next time I decide to try and put my thoughts out there to the community.
I never imagined that I would draw so much criticism over this post. I honestly thought I did a pretty good job of making it apparent that I truly appreciate all of the developers' work. I'm a huge fan of the Android platform and of open source projects in general. Allow me to draw a poorly crafted and weak analogy, if I may:
I love my two-year old boy dearly. He's a fantastic kid and big bright spot in my life. He has asthma, and I really do hate providing his breathing treatments. It doesn't mean I'm not thankful for the technology that allows him to breathe, and I certainly wouldn't consider trading him in for a different model without such issues. I would, however, consider venting to other parents of an asthmatic child about how laborious the process of breathing treatments is, and how unfriendly it is towards children his age.
I'm not quite sure how I managed to come across as anti-open source, anti-developer, or at all unappreciative of our dedicated developers - but apparently that's exactly what I did, so for that I apologize. What is really awful is that with one well-intended post I feel that I have ostracized myself from a community that I thoroughly enjoy supporting.
So instead of being constructive... and building a ROM of your own or simply not using them, you're complaining? No one said you have to use them. No one said you have to update all the time.
Definitely not with you.
I think the fustration you're feeling is related to these only having being available to the masses for about 2 months. The modding community started with HTC phones, so they have the momentum. That being said the samsung community is making a lot of progress, and HTC/Samsung cross modding is in full swing. Be patient.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Thanks for your thoughts. I thought I had posted in "Captivate General", not "Captivate Troll." My mistake.
I have actually tried just about all the ROMs available. You may have noticed that I stated that this is not a Dev issue. I doubt many can do better than the talented developers we have here - I know I couldn't. Hell, even Samsung can't.
My point is that I think the Galaxy S line is a harbinger of things to come for Android. I hope I'm wrong, but as Android becomes increasingly mainstream, it also becomes increasingly less important to deliver function AND form.
The average consumer wants sexiness with phrases like "dual-core" listed in the specs, regardless of what the device can actually deliver.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
crayak said:
I think the fustration you're feeling is related to these only having being available to the masses for about 2 months. The modding community started with HTC phones, so they have the momentum. That being said the samsung community is making a lot of progress, and HTC/Samsung cross modding is in full swing. Be patient.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have a good point, and I have no problem waiting. I suppose I was just sharing my reflections.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
I share you feelings somewhat. Thats why I picked a ROM (Cognition 2.1.6) and will stick with it until Froyo officially drops for the Captivate. I also hate having to restore a phone after a flash which is why I choose not to do it often.
vbhines said:
My point is that I think the Galaxy S line is a harbinger of things to come for Android. I hope I'm wrong, but as Android becomes increasingly mainstream, it also becomes increasingly less important to deliver function AND form.
The average consumer wants sexiness with phrases like "dual-core" listed in the specs, regardless of what the device can actually deliver.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually agree here. But this is sort of Google's thing in a lot of areas. Google Wave, Google Buzz etc. Google MASTERS searching. And everything else they throw stuff on a wall and some sticks and some don't. I worried about that with Android from the very beginning. They often times release half finished products and then allow the devs to finish (or not in some cases) the future of the product/service.
By going to 100 different carriers in 100 different iterations google may very well stop caring about the polished product and just allow the devs to do the rest.
When I had my HTC Hero I had a Flash addiction. Now I just have decided to stick with one build and update it when updates happen. There have been quite a few VERY recent improvements. SetIron's kernel is a fine example. Stuff is happening at a much faster pace than it was when I got my phone 2 months ago. There are twice as many ROMS if not more. Things are going blow wide open when Official Froyo and its source code drop. I think there was stagnent developing at first because we all knew Froyo was coming. If we're lucky Froyo and Gingerbread will share the same kernel so porting IT won't be a big deal either.
FWIW, The Captivate hasn't been out anywhere near as long as the Incredible. Give the Devs some time - it can only get better.
rfarrah said:
FWIW, The Captivate hasn't been out anywhere near as long as the Incredible. Give the Devs some time - it can only get better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think his frustration is more that we have this incredible piece of hardware and the less than stellar job that Samsung has done to finish it off on the software side. If it wasn't for the devs/cookers I probably would have sold my Captivate by now, and I have only had it for 1 month, coming from a Milestone.
Samsung, hire some of these devs to fix your mess you call a kernel and os. Without the lagfixes from the devs this phone responds worse than my Milestone.
bradasmith said:
I think his frustration is more that we have this incredible piece of hardware and the less than stellar job that Samsung has done to finish it off on the software side. If it wasn't for the devs/cookers I probably would have sold my Captivate by now, and I have only had it for 1 month, coming from a Milestone.
Samsung, hire some of these devs to fix your mess you call a kernel and os. Without the lagfixes from the devs this phone responds worse than my Milestone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Thank you for saying what I was trying to, but in far fewer words.
the galaxy s phones might be the last of the phones not locked by the manufacturer. and i like the samsung software package but dislike that it only works if x or y componant is still there. i dont get the appeal of aosp for an every day rom but i get that it is a transition for porting other things, once we know what we need to make the phone work with aosp we can make it work with anything. and i think that people arent giving samsung enough credit for support on the device. the stock rom was buggy and jf7 came out and made things better, now we are waiting on froyo and im sure it will be better yet, if the the leaked copies are an indication then froyo should be quite good.
i think the multi step proceedures is dev preferance for clearing data, there have been roms that you can flash over and keep everything. the other issue is lagfixes which aren't available(or needed) on other devices. the lagfix is part of those oh sh!t moments where you need odin, also having odin available is another avenue for the devs. if we could only flash from recovery you would see alot more cockwork flashable roms that are compatable with multiple lagfixes.
i messed with an evo and really got an apreciation for samsung, i felt the evo was of low build quality and that odin flashing a rooted rom is much more convenient than the rage against the cage meathod of adb pushing files and rooting and recovery flashing. rooting a galaxy s is rediculously easy, just an update.zip, or an one click app on the phone, or a one click app on a pc. or for froyo a 3click kernel flash in odin then an update.zip. or flashing a rooted rom with odin.
i have made many noob mistakes and taken risks and got it running every time. i dont know about the incredible but i think with some other devices i would have either bricked or pulled all my hair out fixing it.
i was in the airforce and one thing that people always said was that the two best bases are the one you last came from and the next one you are going to. people were always telling stories about "back in kirkland...." and "when i get to misawa..." but people were always complaining about there current base. i have a fealing that in year or two when we have new phones we will see many thing we hate about those as well. and if we had motorolas we'd hate those and if we had incredibles we see the galaxy s playing asphalt 5 from samsung apps and be like if only my phone could do 3d like that one.
I have one issue with my phone, the GPS. While I'm mad it doesn't really work it's something I NEVER use. Other than that I'm running the latest Cognition rom and couldn't be happier.
gunnyman said:
.....Things are going blow wide open when Official Froyo and its source code drop. I think there was stagnent developing at first because we all knew Froyo was coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is 100% the reason. I fully expect that there will be some amazing things done and some great roms released.
I don't know if it was mentioned or not already but the reason why there are so many beta versions of roms and why newer versions open up issues is for the same reason as above, no source code available. So be patient and I promise you'll be kicking yourself for making this thread.
I am not a programmer, just a user with some technical expertise, but I love these open source OS's. I jumped on Linux as soon as MS Vista came out and the improvements and leaps forward by that community on the desktops has been amazing. When I opened a Win7 PC for the first time, I realized Microsoft is now copying Linux, not the other way around. Just last week I looked at the new MAC OS and I wanted to scream that they were ripping off the XFCE GUI in Linux. Linux is leading the way in Netbooks now and embedded devices are now a focus. If you have ever flashed a router with Tomato, or one of the other Linux router OS's, you know what amazing things routers are now capable of. And then we have smart phones and make no mistake, Android is just Linux in a smart phone. We don't have to deal with a proprietary systems from MS or Apple, where you only get what they hand out to you. This is Burger King baby, you get it your way. Google may be the name on this open source OS, but it belongs to us all. Google can not take this OS proprietary. Yet any time we, the people, wish we can spin off another branch of development with those things we want. OS's like Meego (and I'm sure there will be others) should be able to be ported over, if we wish, in the near future. We may be looking at an era where we can truly buy the smart phone of our choice, install our OS of choice and choose our carrier of choice with ease.
Bottomline here is you can help. If you are not a dev, or a programmer, you can still contribute to this by continuing to use these builds, and report bugs, and you can contribute money to any of the open source efforts, particularly in areas where you want to see more effort. You don't have to sit on the side lines anymore and just whine about how you are getting the short end of the stick by the big corporations. Open Source belongs to us all, take ownership.
i dont think apple is really copying xfce. ..macosx versions are terminal based and therefor unix like and very similar to linux. x11 window environments have been around for many year. xfce doesn't offer that much that i know of that isn't in others window managers. it is possible that the developers on all sides are taking ideas from each other, but i think since power user often have a lot of shortcuts setup to get through common tasks faster that they are implementing some of these things as presets. similarities can just as easily similar minds overcoming very common problems. granted many developers may be running alternate os's and may be inspired by the other. not that i dont believe in corperate espionage i certainly do but i think a lot of things are just obvious solutions.
the problem with phones is that the manufacturers can lock us out and the locks can be difficult to break. you are right that google doesnt own the os but the manufacturers have proprietary source along side the source that they must release because it was taken from google. at some point it makes development dificult. i think we need an emphasis on aosp to build roms from. not because i like the google software, i find it plain and ugly, but because once aosp is figured out there is more understanding of how it all fits together and ports become easier.
i just cant wait to see the day when we can custom order aosp compatible hardware and build phones based on what our priorities are and what we can afford. i know we cant actually solder the boards our selves with surface mount but it could be done on an assembly line with robots if a manufacturer decided to use them to there full potential.
vbhines said:
Thanks for your thoughts. I thought I had posted in "Captivate General", not "Captivate Troll." My mistake.
I have actually tried just about all the ROMs available. You may have noticed that I stated that this is not a Dev issue. I doubt many can do better than the talented developers we have here - I know I couldn't. Hell, even Samsung can't.
My point is that I think the Galaxy S line is a harbinger of things to come for Android. I hope I'm wrong, but as Android becomes increasingly mainstream, it also becomes increasingly less important to deliver function AND form.
The average consumer wants sexiness with phrases like "dual-core" listed in the specs, regardless of what the device can actually deliver.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree with your more about your criticism about Samsung - but I'm not sure how this applies for Android as a whole. The closest thing you can say is Android fails to exclude poorly performing companies - but that's not much of a statement, is it?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
GreenWolf70 said:
I am not a programmer, just a user with some technical expertise, but I love these open source OS's. I jumped on Linux as soon as MS Vista came out and the improvements and leaps forward by that community on the desktops has been amazing. When I opened a Win7 PC for the first time, I realized Microsoft is now copying Linux, not the other way around. Just last week I looked at the new MAC OS and I wanted to scream that they were ripping off the XFCE GUI in Linux. Linux is leading the way in Netbooks now and embedded devices are now a focus. If you have ever flashed a router with Tomato, or one of the other Linux router OS's, you know what amazing things routers are now capable of. And then we have smart phones and make no mistake, Android is just Linux in a smart phone. We don't have to deal with a proprietary systems from MS or Apple, where you only get what they hand out to you. This is Burger King baby, you get it your way. Google may be the name on this open source OS, but it belongs to us all. Google can not take this OS proprietary. Yet any time we, the people, wish we can spin off another branch of development with those things we want. OS's like Meego (and I'm sure there will be others) should be able to be ported over, if we wish, in the near future. We may be looking at an era where we can truly buy the smart phone of our choice, install our OS of choice and choose our carrier of choice with ease.
Bottomline here is you can help. If you are not a dev, or a programmer, you can still contribute to this by continuing to use these builds, and report bugs, and you can contribute money to any of the open source efforts, particularly in areas where you want to see more effort. You don't have to sit on the side lines anymore and just whine about how you are getting the short end of the stick by the big corporations. Open Source belongs to us all, take ownership.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is one of the best posts I have read on this forum. What a great insight into the evolution of the smartphone, it damn near brought a tear to my eye and sure as hell made me proud to be an owner and defender of the ideal of Open Source. Sure, my Captivate isn't perfect, but I continue to try new ROM's and use my technical proficiency to try and reason out any bugs so as to provide useful feedback. In turn, these ROM's continue to get better and everyone profits.
I love you guys... *group hug*
Dani897 said:
the galaxy s phones might be the last of the phones not locked by the manufacturer. and i like the samsung software package but dislike that it only works if x or y componant is still there. i dont get the appeal of aosp for an every day rom but i get that it is a transition for porting other things, once we know what we need to make the phone work with aosp we can make it work with anything. and i think that people arent giving samsung enough credit for support on the device. the stock rom was buggy and jf7 came out and made things better, now we are waiting on froyo and im sure it will be better yet, if the the leaked copies are an indication then froyo should be quite good.
i think the multi step proceedures is dev preferance for clearing data, there have been roms that you can flash over and keep everything. the other issue is lagfixes which aren't available(or needed) on other devices. the lagfix is part of those oh sh!t moments where you need odin, also having odin available is another avenue for the devs. if we could only flash from recovery you would see alot more cockwork flashable roms that are compatable with multiple lagfixes.
i messed with an evo and really got an apreciation for samsung, i felt the evo was of low build quality and that odin flashing a rooted rom is much more convenient than the rage against the cage meathod of adb pushing files and rooting and recovery flashing. rooting a galaxy s is rediculously easy, just an update.zip, or an one click app on the phone, or a one click app on a pc. or for froyo a 3click kernel flash in odin then an update.zip. or flashing a rooted rom with odin.
i have made many noob mistakes and taken risks and got it running every time. i dont know about the incredible but i think with some other devices i would have either bricked or pulled all my hair out fixing it.
i was in the airforce and one thing that people always said was that the two best bases are the one you last came from and the next one you are going to. people were always telling stories about "back in kirkland...." and "when i get to misawa..." but people were always complaining about there current base. i have a fealing that in year or two when we have new phones we will see many thing we hate about those as well. and if we had motorolas we'd hate those and if we had incredibles we see the galaxy s playing asphalt 5 from samsung apps and be like if only my phone could do 3d like that one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GreenWolf70 said:
I am not a programmer, just a user with some technical expertise, but I love these open source OS's. I jumped on Linux as soon as MS Vista came out and the improvements and leaps forward by that community on the desktops has been amazing. When I opened a Win7 PC for the first time, I realized Microsoft is now copying Linux, not the other way around. Just last week I looked at the new MAC OS and I wanted to scream that they were ripping off the XFCE GUI in Linux. Linux is leading the way in Netbooks now and embedded devices are now a focus. If you have ever flashed a router with Tomato, or one of the other Linux router OS's, you know what amazing things routers are now capable of. And then we have smart phones and make no mistake, Android is just Linux in a smart phone. We don't have to deal with a proprietary systems from MS or Apple, where you only get what they hand out to you. This is Burger King baby, you get it your way. Google may be the name on this open source OS, but it belongs to us all. Google can not take this OS proprietary. Yet any time we, the people, wish we can spin off another branch of development with those things we want. OS's like Meego (and I'm sure there will be others) should be able to be ported over, if we wish, in the near future. We may be looking at an era where we can truly buy the smart phone of our choice, install our OS of choice and choose our carrier of choice with ease.
Bottomline here is you can help. If you are not a dev, or a programmer, you can still contribute to this by continuing to use these builds, and report bugs, and you can contribute money to any of the open source efforts, particularly in areas where you want to see more effort. You don't have to sit on the side lines anymore and just whine about how you are getting the short end of the stick by the big corporations. Open Source belongs to us all, take ownership.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EsotericPunk said:
This is one of the best posts I have read on this forum. What a great insight into the evolution of the smartphone, it damn near brought a tear to my eye and sure as hell made me proud to be an owner and defender of the ideal of Open Source. Sure, my Captivate isn't perfect, but I continue to try new ROM's and use my technical proficiency to try and reason out any bugs so as to provide useful feedback. In turn, these ROM's continue to get better and everyone profits.
I love you guys... *group hug*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said Androiders!
+10
Then go wait on the sidelines for a cyanogen port. We, galaxy s phone owners. Don't and won't need huge steps beyond what we have. Your expectations are limited to what your old phone needed to perform.
You are right its silly. And unnecessary. Find a new hobby if porting roms isn't doing it for you.
vbhines said:
First, let me say up front that I have the utmost respect for the developers in the Captivate forum. It's a handicapped device that has much more potential than I think we'll ever be able to tap, simply because there isn't much motivation for Samsung to fix its biggest issues. Let's face it: The things we like most about our favorite Android handsets are precisely the things that make them seem "too complex" to the non non-technical general public. I think that the Galaxy S line has been a huge dissapointment to enthusiasts, and a big "ooh, ahh" for the iPhone-types.
That being said, let me move on to my main gripe: Through my Droid Incredible, I fell in love with flashing ROMs. If it had a higher build number, I flashed it. And you know why? Because it was better a better build. Newer baseband versions fixed more problems than it caused. I could flash ROMs on a train versus needing to be at my desktop for an exhaustive multi-step shamble. And when ROMs were released from build to build, developers in general knew what to expect as far as results.
I simply can't say that that's true with the Captivate. I'm growing increasingly frustrated with this phone and it's idiocy. I hate having ROMs with "Beta 9.3.5" after their title. I hate that half of the releases are to take out some Samsung crap, replace it with some AOSP-like goodness, just to see what sticks.
Again, it's not a condemnation of the Devs. They have made this phone tolerable, which is no small task. I just think it's a sad state of affairs when an OS based on an open source foundation has been so brutally slapped together that it makes a phone with the looks and hardware specs of a Ferrari about as much fun to own and maintain as a Yugo.
Who's with me on this one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Hi.
I have seen these apps from Björk but they don't seem to be for android. They are only for iPhone.
BUT I've read that the app could be ported from iOS to another operating systems because it was made to allow this. And Björk encouraged hackers to do that! That was said from Björk herself in an interview!
She told Drowned in Sound that the apps had been specifically designed so that they could be easily ported to other platforms -- like Symbian, BlackBerry and Android. "We really made sure when we wrote all the programs that they will transfer to other systems."
"I'm not supposed to say this, probably, but I'm trusting that the pirates out there won't tie their hands behind their back."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive...shttp://www.compositiontoday.com/blog/115.asp
I personally think that the art, sounds, videos, etc, could be extracted, but what ist with the software itself? How could it be ported if the source code is not available....
What do you think?
Can someone clarify if it would be possible?
Thanks!
Some videos of these apps. You can interact with the music and make your own versions playing or changing things in a very innovative concept.
http://youtu.be/FsxsGrnCGIk
http://youtu.be/kb3kLXVs9J0
http://youtu.be/0Rx-P2UsD5g
Still waiting!
Did anything ever come of this?
Hey anybody! Do sth about it! She preety much asked to do this, so lets do sth. I guess many people would want this app for android, and here? No reply? Please!
Nobody is interested...
I think this app is cracks for iphone, but it wasn't ported to android... It would be much more interesting.
Yeah, It would be interesting for milions of people who have android phones, and not Iphones. Android is bigger market than iphone so i just don't have a clue why nobody wants to port biophilia app on android.
[email protected] said:
Yeah, It would be interesting for milions of people who have android phones, and not Iphones. Android is bigger market than iphone so i just don't have a clue why nobody wants to port biophilia app on android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There no hackers who like this app, i would say.
humano said:
BUT I've read that the app could be ported from iOS to another operating systems because it was made to allow this. And Björk encouraged hackers to do that! That was said from Björk herself in an interview!
I personally think that the art, sounds, videos, etc, could be extracted, but what ist with the software itself? How could it be ported if the source code is not available....
What do you think?
Can someone clarify if it would be possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's generally not feasible.
Björk is a very interesting artist. I think her understanding of technology, and specifically software development, "hacking" and "pirating", is limited however.
Yes, the app may have been made potentially portable, but without source code that is more or less useless.
Porting an app between platforms is a much bigger task than "pirating". It's not a simple matter of pulling files from hidden directories, or even doing some limited reverse engineering and patching of an app to bypass license checks. It's MUCH more than the mere pirating of music and movie files.
I'm presuming the app was written to IOS with Objective C, and not some portable language where the source code is embedded in the ios apps.
Anything is possible, though. With enough time one could reproduce what the app does. That's probably easier than trying to reverse engineer it.
But I'd guess this is a substantial effort, likely requiring at least many months of work by a single person. But with all the paid work, and interesting free projects available to a person with the skills to port an ios app to Android without source code, why would anyone spend at least several months doing this ?
They could face the prospect of lawsuits from the rights holders, and might be unable to sell their work on official app markets. For what ? A wink from Björk, without even a physical pat on the back ? And perhaps a certain amount of gratitude from some users...
I hope she and others have learned something. If she/they want this to happen, they should at least release open source code freely, and make sure it's not difficult to port. Yeah, the video and audio recordings can remain "proprietary" but the app source code and design documents need to be released.
Or is much of the artistic expression integrated into the source code ? I haven't looked much but I guess these are not simple apps to play video and audio. These are apps that allow some form of interaction; perhaps the music changes with that.
If that's the case, the rights holders likely will want to hold onto their "intellectual/artistic property" and keep any source and design documents to themselves.
IMO, No amount of "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" from Björk will make a porting job easy.
And AFAIK there are no ios emulators for Android that might render this a simpler "pirating" effort.
mikereidis said:
I think it's generally not feasible.
Björk is a very interesting artist. I think her understanding of technology, and specifically software development, "hacking" and "pirating", is limited however.
Yes, the app may have been made potentially portable, but without source code that is more or less useless.
Porting an app between platforms is a much bigger task than "pirating". It's not a simple matter of pulling files from hidden directories, or even doing some limited reverse engineering and patching of an app to bypass license checks. It's MUCH more than the mere pirating of music and movie files.
I'm presuming the app was written to IOS with Objective C, and not some portable language where the source code is embedded in the ios apps.
Anything is possible, though. With enough time one could reproduce what the app does. That's probably easier than trying to reverse engineer it.
But I'd guess this is a substantial effort, likely requiring at least many months of work by a single person. But with all the paid work, and interesting free projects available to a person with the skills to port an ios app to Android without source code, why would anyone spend at least several months doing this ?
They could face the prospect of lawsuits from the rights holders, and might be unable to sell their work on official app markets. For what ? A wink from Björk, without even a physical pat on the back ? And perhaps a certain amount of gratitude from some users...
I hope she and others have learned something. If she/they want this to happen, they should at least release open source code freely, and make sure it's not difficult to port. Yeah, the video and audio recordings can remain "proprietary" but the app source code and design documents need to be released.
Or is much of the artistic expression integrated into the source code ? I haven't looked much but I guess these are not simple apps to play video and audio. These are apps that allow some form of interaction; perhaps the music changes with that.
If that's the case, the rights holders likely will want to hold onto their "intellectual/artistic property" and keep any source and design documents to themselves.
IMO, No amount of "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" from Björk will make a porting job easy.
And AFAIK there are no ios emulators for Android that might render this a simpler "pirating" effort.
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Click to collapse
Thanks Mike for the reply. I didn't see this.
Are you sure, that the source code is not included? Is not possible that there's a intermediate state of the the code, that could be built for Android? I always thought, that is something like that.
You are totally right. With the artwork we cannot build the app for android...
And I don't even have an iphone to see how the apps should look like in android.
humano said:
Are you sure, that the source code is not included? Is not possible that there's a intermediate state of the the code, that could be built for Android? I always thought, that is something like that.
You are totally right. With the artwork we cannot build the app for android...
And I don't even have an iphone to see how the apps should look like in android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure. Anyone who claims otherwise is challenged to "show me where the source is".
For Android there is an emulator for PCs that many apps can run on, and an app of this type could run.
I know almost nothing of ios development, but likely there is an ios emulator that can run on a Mac at least ? AFAIR, ios development requires a Mac.
Feel free to send Bjork, or the companies that represent her, email asking about this.
I've been a fan of some of her music, and even acting and I even find her cute... And that's why I responded here. I had an initial thought that this could be an interesting project, but I have no time for such an unpaid hobby project.
BTW, Just looked at the iTunes page and some others. Seems to be a $12.99 app. And says "The full Biophilia App Album is now a paid app for new users, old users maintain same in-app-purchase ability." Something tells me the legal fine print says you're screwed if you hack it, especially if you tried to make a few bucks or do it publicly with your real name.
Artists (with money), hollywood and recording industry types tend to have iPhones. They don't know tech per se, don't want to know tech, and they have the cash to spend. They want something that "just works" and that's what the iPhone does, for a price. And ios is where devs make REAL money. Comparatively speaking, Android sucks for making money.
I saw some comment that they didn't make an Android app "for legal reasons". Sounds like a different way to say "business reasons". I imagine her recording company sells her music on iTunes, but doesn't sell it on Google Play in that big ongoing power play between media companies and tech companies ?
mikereidis said:
I think it's generally not feasible.
Björk is a very interesting artist. I think her understanding of technology, and specifically software development, "hacking" and "pirating", is limited however.
Yes, the app may have been made potentially portable, but without source code that is more or less useless.
Porting an app between platforms is a much bigger task than "pirating". It's not a simple matter of pulling files from hidden directories, or even doing some limited reverse engineering and patching of an app to bypass license checks. It's MUCH more than the mere pirating of music and movie files.
I'm presuming the app was written to IOS with Objective C, and not some portable language where the source code is embedded in the ios apps.
Anything is possible, though. With enough time one could reproduce what the app does. That's probably easier than trying to reverse engineer it.
But I'd guess this is a substantial effort, likely requiring at least many months of work by a single person.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quoting my words from a year ago out of sheer vanity, LOL.
New news about her kick-starter project for Android and Windows ports of the IPad Biophilia being put "on hold". Among other sources: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/appsblog/2013/feb/08/bjork-cancels-biophilia-kickstarter
Summary of my opinion: I love her as an artist, but she doesn't understand technology. Ooooh, and I wish she would forget about Windows and just do Android.
IMO the IPad was targetted first because that's what all the at least reasonably well off artsy people used at that time, and could afford. Now she wants the app in the hand of those who can't afford IPads.
So why can't/haven't they just open sourced the code ? Original IOS devs still hold the rights ?
Bjork says:
"porting the app "proved unbelievably complicated""... LOL.
And the estimate seems to be 8 devs (staff?) for 5 months, for both Windows and Android. So maybe 20 developer months for each.
And that's a small project in the world I've come from, with 10-100 dev teams working for years. And she thinks that's "unbelievably complicated".
Now I don't know exactly the scope of the app is; I've never used it on Ipad, and I don't know if it uses some magic IOS stuff that's hard to port.
For all I know it could require the minimum of my quoted estimate of "...at least many months of work by a single person". Or it could be 10-20 man-years. I don't know.
My point continues to be that she doesn't have a grasp of technology. And that's fine, she's a wonderful artist IMO, and there's no shame in not having or not wanting tech knowledge.
mikereidis said:
Quoting my words from a year ago out of sheer vanity, LOL.
New news about her kick-starter project for Android and Windows ports of the IPad Biophilia being put "on hold". Among other sources: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/appsblog/2013/feb/08/bjork-cancels-biophilia-kickstarter
Summary of my opinion: I love her as an artist, but she doesn't understand technology. Ooooh, and I wish she would forget about Windows and just do Android.
IMO the IPad was targetted first because that's what all the at least reasonably well off artsy people used at that time, and could afford. Now she wants the app in the hand of those who can't afford IPads.
So why can't/haven't they just open sourced the code ? Original IOS devs still hold the rights ?
Bjork says:
"porting the app "proved unbelievably complicated""... LOL.
And the estimate seems to be 8 devs (staff?) for 5 months, for both Windows and Android. So maybe 20 developer months for each.
And that's a small project in the world I've come from, with 10-100 dev teams working for years. And she thinks that's "unbelievably complicated".
Now I don't know exactly the scope of the app is; I've never used it on Ipad, and I don't know if it uses some magic IOS stuff that's hard to port.
For all I know it could require the minimum of my quoted estimate of "...at least many months of work by a single person". Or it could be 10-20 man-years. I don't know.
My point continues to be that she doesn't have a grasp of technology. And that's fine, she's a wonderful artist IMO, and there's no shame in not having or not wanting tech knowledge.
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Click to collapse
Yes I love her but that's why I think too , she too thought that porting an app will need 5 guys working on it and two months oh bjork
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
Chad_Petree said:
Yes I love her but that's why I think too , she too thought that porting an app will need 5 guys working on it and two months oh bjork
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Originally, she hoped that "hackers" would do it, somehow, without source code, and she was giving a "wink, wink" to that.
She seemed to think that porting an app to a different platform would be almost as easy as pirating music, movies or apps.
I'm too busy to get involved, but I would be happy if someone(s) would ask her to get the source code released, and the "community" may be able to look and see and offer opinions or ideas.
Perhaps a few fans have the tech abilities and free time to make something of this at little or no cost, as opposed to professional devs making a normal professional dev income.
There's a forum here: http://4um.bjork.com/viewforum.php?f=16&sid=c28e2e0870bdc695ce7da8da94849918
Anybody know if she communicates openly with her fans online ? Is there an easy way to ask her for source code and offer ideas ?
IMO, she needs to forget about a Windows port, at least for now. It should have been Android from the beginning, but that said, Android is still relatively sub-par when it comes to real-time music generation. IOS stomps Android in this area, though the latest JB changes are promising.
mikereidis said:
Originally, she hoped that "hackers" would do it, somehow, without source code, and she was giving a "wink, wink" to that.
She seemed to think that porting an app to a different platform would be almost as easy as pirating music, movies or apps.
I'm too busy to get involved, but I would be happy if someone(s) would ask her to get the source code released, and the "community" may be able to look and see and offer opinions or ideas.
Perhaps a few fans have the tech abilities and free time to make something of this at little or no cost, as opposed to professional devs making a normal professional dev income.
There's a forum here: http://4um.bjork.com/viewforum.php?f=16&sid=c28e2e0870bdc695ce7da8da94849918
Anybody know if she communicates openly with her fans online ? Is there an easy way to ask her for source code and offer ideas ?
IMO, she needs to forget about a Windows port, at least for now. It should have been Android from the beginning, but that said, Android is still relatively sub-par when it comes to real-time music generation. IOS stomps Android in this area, though the latest JB changes are promising.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will ask it in her forum. Perhaps she reads this proposal. It could work.
humano said:
I will ask it in her forum. Perhaps she reads this proposal. It could work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I signed up on that forum and didn't get any confirmation email.
I was reading the main thread about this, and I think some of the posters understand a bit about s/w development. But some others are very misinformed about how development works.
mikereidis said:
I signed up on that forum and didn't get any confirmation email.
I was reading the main thread about this, and I think some of the posters understand a bit about s/w development. But some others are very misinformed about how development works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am registered in that forum too and it's what you say. They don't have any idea.... :laugh:
But there's good news, at least somebody told in the forum, that she told in an interview, that she will find a cheap way to port biophilia to android.
She would never release the code as open source... It would be crazy... We would have a BIOPHILIA+
It's what you told before. She doesn't really understand the power of doing it... :victory:
humano said:
She would never release the code as open source... It would be crazy...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, no open source basically, generally means it's "commercial property".
So this is a commercial venture she has.
That's fine, that's OK. It belongs to her (and/or whomever) and she can do what she wants with it. No different than other software devs / vendors, musicians, song, book or movie writers etc.
But she can't expect some "benevolent hackers" to come along and "port" an app like this for her for free; with or without source code.
And she has something going on with bringing music education to the poor or something like that. And that's why she wants an Android port it appears. The poor can't afford iDevices.
And that's fine too. But it seems like it's a jumble of commercial stuff and some form of self promoting philanthropy.
Anyway, I think she should forget about this years old project and make something completely new for Android. Why re-do what's already been done ? But I guess money comes in there too. It should be faster and cheaper to re-use the high level design and media components.
mikereidis said:
Well, no open source basically, generally means it's "commercial property".
So this is a commercial venture she has.
That's fine, that's OK. It belongs to her (and/or whomever) and she can do what she wants with it. No different than other software devs / vendors, musicians, song, book or movie writers etc.
But she can't expect some "benevolent hackers" to come along and "port" an app like this for her for free; with or without source code.
And she has something going on with bringing music education to the poor or something like that. And that's why she wants an Android port it appears. The poor can't afford iDevices.
And that's fine too. But it seems like it's a jumble of commercial stuff and some form of self promoting philanthropy.
Anyway, I think she should forget about this years old project and make something completely new for Android. Why re-do what's already been done ? But I guess money comes in there too. It should be faster and cheaper to re-use the high level design and media components.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully agree. These apps are already a little obsolete for android.
And I have good news. She found a team of developers who is going to do the work for low price. We will have biophilia for android after the summer. Let's see how it is...
humano said:
I fully agree. These apps are already a little obsolete for android.
And I have good news. She found a team of developers who is going to do the work for low price. We will have biophilia for android after the summer. Let's see how it is...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope it's not some "boiler room" s/w dev hack operation that promises more than it can deliver. I'm restraining myself from mentioning/identifying certain world areas where this is more common.
She's apparently coming to my town this summer; I've never seen her live; would be interesting.
mikereidis said:
I hope it's not some "boiler room" s/w dev hack operation that promises more than it can deliver. I'm restraining myself from mentioning/identifying certain world areas where this is more common.
She's apparently coming to my town this summer; I've never seen her live; would be interesting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
She said that in one interview. That's what the people in the 4um.bjork.com say. I think it's real.
I saw her live last sommer and was amazing.
Well Biophilia app is already for Android devices!
Check the playstore https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bjork.biophilia
I don't see any other threads on this topic; there doesn't seem to be any serious discussion on porting Windows RT to run on non-official tablets and other ARM systems (raspberry pi for example).
It seems the main hurdle is that Windows RT requires an UEFI bootloader. Apart from a couple of development boards (ARM Versatile Express for example), there isn't any widespread ARM product that has this. Two things: what happens if one tries to boot windows rt from a UEFI capable development board? Second: if the first test shows some success, it would be worth the effort to write an UEFI emulation bootloader like Chameleon for x86.
Can someone with more experience chime in about possible complications and other issues to worry about?
I know it's been done; there are screenshots and such of Windows RT running on HTC HD2 (Leo) smartphone (which was released as a WinMo 6.5 device, but has had WP7, Android, Maemo, Ubuntu, and $DEITY knows what else ported to it).
That said, I don't expect it will be easy for the wide variety of devices. If nothing else, the drivers for all the hardware may be difficult to come by.
I see it. Has any more info come out of it? Was it just uefi emulation?
I want my Acer Iconia A500 to run windows rt. But no one started porting rt to any other Android devices.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
(raspberry pi for example)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Raspberry Pi is using ARMv6, Windows NT works only on ARMv7 Cortex A9-MP.
I know it's been done; there are screenshots and such of Windows RT running on HTC HD2 (Leo) smartphone (which was released as a WinMo 6.5 device, but has had WP7, Android, Maemo, Ubuntu, and $DEITY knows what else ported to it).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it's running on HTC LEO by DFT team. It's not fake.
It seems the main hurdle is that Windows RT requires an UEFI bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not main hurdle, it's start hurdle. Actually there are much more things after that.
If we are talking about full working system or almost working system the next "hurdles" can be 10x times harder.
there isn't any widespread ARM product that has this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BeagleBoard has UEFI bootloader AFAIK. we are used some useful information from there.
It's based on EDK2 kit, MAGLDR-UEFI also based on it as well Surface RT UEFI bootloader.
At the end you forgot the most important thing:
It's a question of legality. While Android and some other OSes are almost free and partially open sourced, Windows RT is closed source system and it's not possible legally install it to any device. System needs activation and etc. Ever information about it.
Some people may say at this point: "ha n00bs, true [email protected] never th1nk ab0ut that", "who care about MS?", "everything should be free"
, but truth actually is different. I am already noticed that
It's why DFT is so careful with spreading any information about that.
Cotulla speaks the truth. Installing RT to systems that didn't come with it means making copies of RT from some other source. Legally speaking, that's almost certainly going to be software piracy, and it's possible that MS would care enough about it to come after this site. That would be bad... This is one of the reasons for the strict anti-piracy rule here.
Cotulla said:
Raspberry Pi is using ARMv6, Windows NT works only on ARMv7 Cortex A9-MP.
Yes, it's running on HTC LEO by DFT team. It's not fake.
It's not main hurdle, it's start hurdle. Actually there are much more things after that.
If we are talking about full working system or almost working system the next "hurdles" can be 10x times harder.
BeagleBoard has UEFI bootloader AFAIK. we are used some useful information from there.
It's based on EDK2 kit, MAGLDR-UEFI also based on it as well Surface RT UEFI bootloader.
At the end you forgot the most important thing:
It's a question of legality. While Android and some other OSes are almost free and partially open sourced, Windows RT is closed source system and it's not possible legally install it to any device. System needs activation and etc. Ever information about it.
Some people may say at this point: "ha n00bs, true [email protected] never th1nk ab0ut that", "who care about MS?", "everything should be free"
, but truth actually is different. I am already noticed that
It's why DFT is so careful with spreading any information about that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, by main hurdle I mean why there isn't much public work on it. I know it would be hard to port a system. And I did not know RPI is armv6 so forget about that. Obviously I understand the legality, but I'm not thinking about widespread releases. I'm looking more into what that dft team did which is just doing something to prove it can be done.
Well since TI demoed windows 8 RT on a TI OMAP 4470 system there has to be a build out there for it. I have a SmartQ X7 which also has the TI OMAP 4470/SGX544 chipset, I'd like to try Windows 8 RT on it as I am sure it would run quite well.
Here Engadget has an article about it.
So should be quite possible I'd think?
Sorry, by main hurdle I mean why there isn't much public work on it. I know it would be hard to port a system. And I did not know RPI is armv6 so forget about that. Obviously I understand the legality, but I'm not thinking about widespread releases. I'm looking more into what that dft team did which is just doing something to prove it can be done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually we never wanted to "prove that something can be done". We just doing our hobby in spare time.
Ever we run WP8 on old phone, it doesn't mean that MS faked all users. They had reasons and I understand them. Project was started long time ago before it was officially known that WP7 won't be updated to WP8.
From outside view it can look like we wanted to say "Hey MS lies, WP7 devices can run WP8!", but it's not
People look interested to view hobby results, as well we try to provide them some fun. like WP7 HSPL provided fun for ROM cookers, for homebrew apps developers, and those before provided fun for users who like to test new stuff and play with own phone.
Cotulla said:
Actually we never wanted to "prove that something can be done". We just doing our hobby in spare time.
Ever we run WP8 on old phone, it doesn't mean that MS faked all users. They had reasons and I understand them. Project was started long time ago before it was officially known that WP7 won't be updated to WP8.
From outside view it can look like we wanted to say "Hey MS lies, WP7 devices can run WP8!", but it's not
People look interested to view hobby results, as well we try to provide them some fun. like WP7 HSPL provided fun for ROM cookers, for homebrew apps developers, and those before provided fun for users who like to test new stuff and play with own phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you did was pretty awesome, and I also want to do it. Your work is yours so I'm not going to try to persuade you to give any info, but I want to get Windows RT running on other devices to show that it can be done (not to prove that Microsoft lied but to test my own (and anyone helping's) skills).
Porting to SAMSUNG GALAXY tab 2
Any idea, if it can be done porting to SAMSUNG GALAXY tab 2 ?
Does the hardware fits? As I read, I believe it's fits (like Microsoft surface ARM device).
What do i need to do?
Thanks in Advance!
Any news? I'm thinking about buying an terra 1001 pad :
https://www.google.nl/#hl=nl&sclien...94,d.d2k&fp=3cf597d2212ac5a5&biw=1366&bih=674
Man guys.. just get a Surface RT or Vivo Tab.
Wouldn't it be nice
Cotulla said:
Raspberry Pi is using ARMv6, Windows NT works only on ARMv7 Cortex A9-MP.
Yes, it's running on HTC LEO by DFT team. It's not fake.
It's not main hurdle, it's start hurdle. Actually there are much more things after that.
If we are talking about full working system or almost working system the next "hurdles" can be 10x times harder.
BeagleBoard has UEFI bootloader AFAIK. we are used some useful information from there.
It's based on EDK2 kit, MAGLDR-UEFI also based on it as well Surface RT UEFI bootloader.
At the end you forgot the most important thing:
It's a question of legality. While Android and some other OSes are almost free and partially open sourced, Windows RT is closed source system and it's not possible legally install it to any device. System needs activation and etc. Ever information about it.
Some people may say at this point: "ha n00bs, true [email protected] never th1nk ab0ut that", "who care about MS?", "everything should be free"
, but truth actually is different. I am already noticed that
It's why DFT is so careful with spreading any information about that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, and to be honest the amount of work put into things needs, or should be paid for. Whether MS or Android. What would be nice? A source copy of RT to be paid for and used by any number of singular developers with the contention that MS will not support it, and have that announced publicly. Fact is, people complain when something doesn't work, and it is RARELY the person/manufacturer that they are blaming who are at fault. We as "Humans" give negative publicity out as if it is free candy, 99% of the time we have no real idea who actually is to blame, and forget how many mistakes we ourselves make. By "we" I mean the general public, not anyone or anything specific.
As for that...MS should release the sourcecode. It's a nifty OS and has the potential to be pretty amazing; not to mention the publicity would be good initially. AND...I have a few Tegras laying around I'd LOVE to dual boot with ! SO yes...go MS, give us source food? Don't be Apple
First of all this thread is really old, and probably should have been locked a long time ago.
wcparry said:
SO yes...go MS, give us source food? Don't be Apple
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Click to collapse
I really don't think you are going to see this happen, Windows has been closed source since 1985, I really doubt one day in 2013 they are going to wake up and say "oh, lets just opensource this stuff".
wcparry said:
I agree, and to be honest the amount of work put into things needs, or should be paid for. Whether MS or Android. What would be nice? A source copy of RT to be paid for and used by any number of singular developers with the contention that MS will not support it, and have that announced publicly. Fact is, people complain when something doesn't work, and it is RARELY the person/manufacturer that they are blaming who are at fault. We as "Humans" give negative publicity out as if it is free candy, 99% of the time we have no real idea who actually is to blame, and forget how many mistakes we ourselves make. By "we" I mean the general public, not anyone or anything specific.
As for that...MS should release the sourcecode. It's a nifty OS and has the potential to be pretty amazing; not to mention the publicity would be good initially. AND...I have a few Tegras laying around I'd LOVE to dual boot with ! SO yes...go MS, give us source food? Don't be Apple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its essentially giving out the whole x86 Windows source code, this will never happen.. I believe
Here's a topic on windows RT recovery: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2079409
Maybe this can help in porting it to other devices.
We know about that thread... We have eyes.
Recovery images are useless for this purpose
--
gnidorah said:
Maybe go with windows ce (embedded) + bsp for concrete device instead?
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Click to collapse
Well, that wouldn't be RT then, would it? The point of this thread was wondering if RT could be ported to other devices not officially supported, not whether we can install any OS at all.