Related
Reason for my question? This: http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/22/htc-adopting-android-on-50-of-its-handsets-in-2010/
Going to quite a few iPhone topics here (and made one myself), I know that a lot of you guys here seem to love WinMo (at least more than OSX), so seeing this piece of news was kind of interesting.
As we all know and as the article reiterates, the vast majority of current HTC phones are WinMo-based. The rumor is that it's eventually going to go down to 50%-based with the other 50% being Android. Of course, it's a rumor, but the articles states that HTC is already on the way to being 30% Android-based, so how unlikely is it really?
Now let me go a bit further: As it is, HTC is currently 90% WinMo-based. With the speed at which they seem to be moving (2% to 50% Android-based in one year?), who is to say they won't eventually be 90% Android-based? If this does happen, though, as we see now, XDA could easily simply add the Android-based phones with little issue. On the other hand, as we also see now with Android-based phones, the design may become more limited instead of the numerous designs available for WinMo-based phones.
But...would you guys continue to purchase HTC phones? Is your love of HTC phones all dependent upon the support of XDA-developers or can you simply not switch from WinMo?
Personally, I am pretty OS independent. I can work with any phone. However, if I do have to switch from WinMo, then I would prefer to switch to either iPhone (yeah, yeah, I know) or the Palm Pre (WebOS' increasing popularity and great usability). As it is, I'm not very interested in Android, and Google...has done/say a few things in the past to make me doubt if they'll give proper support to Android. So personally, if HTC does switch to being almost completely Android-based, then truthfully, I probably would not continue purchasing HTC.
ofcourse.
however, i am not "loyal" to any OS or company. whoever makes the best device that suits my needs gets the money.
Well
They would increase their Android models but WM will still be there, so it´s just another option to stay with HTC
Personally I think Android can be good in the future, when they achieve a more mature and solid OS, meantime I´m with WM and of course HTC
crazy talk said:
ofcourse.
however, i am not "loyal" to any OS or company. whoever makes the best device that suits my needs gets the money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I wasn't referring to company/OS loyalty; my apology if I gave that impression. What I really meant was a question of how much one likes using Windows Mobile vs how much one likes XDA support.
As I said, I'm presuming there's a certain number of people here who likes WinMo, so I'm trying to gauge how many people would stick with HTC in the case of such a large move. From your post, I'm assuming you'll go with the best device regardless of OS or XDA support, though?
orb3000 said:
They would increase their Android models but WM will still be there, so it´s just another option to stay with HTC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but I'm guessing one's choices may also become a bit more limited if HTC's Android support increases even further. Look at HTC's list of Android-based phones now. If you happen to not like any of the *three* choices, whether it be due to design, specs, or whatever other reason, then you're pretty much out of luck, aren't you?
On the other hand, if you don't like one HTC WinMo-based phone, you literally have a dozen other choices in various designs and specs to fit your desire.
My Understanding is that MS doesn’t work and listen well with the manufacturer. There are many complains on current WinMo capabilities and how time consuming it is to write application for it. Furthermore complains also go in to the development speed of the WM7 which no one knows anything about it. Therefore some HTC press release could be aiming of putting serious pressure to MS. Furthermore been only on WinMo leads HTC very depended on MS. I believe that is very important point by certain negotiations between HTC and MS.
Therefore it is only understandable that HTC starting put more weight on a second pillar. Besides developing own OS the Android is the best option for HTC for shaping and driving an Operation Platform for their Devices.
Anyhow that Large Companies like HTC, Samsung and some others paying serious attention to Android indicating very bright future for Android. It is most likely now that those companies will speed up the process growing young OS to maturate. WinMo and MS is really under pressure now, if Wm7 doesn’t bring the expected wowww change then it will no other way then to say... Good bye WinMo
Not sure if I really need another OS in the mix. I wouldn't mind a device that can do both Android and WinMo but only Android ... probably not. Then I might as well make the jump to the iPhone.
I certainly wouldn't rule out Android. As somebody who uses a lot of Google's webservices, Android has a definite appeal. There's a few WM-specific apps I'd miss, but the app ecosystem for Android will only improve as time goes one.
However, I've been pretty darn happy with Microsoft's direction lately (Win 7, Zune, and the Xbox 360 are all great products). I wouldn't buy another WM6 device, but I'm definitely going to be following WM7 closely.
I still think HTC has some of the best ID guys in the business (aesthetically I prefer the TD2 and TP2 to anything on the market) and they're very talented and making software tweaks, but they really need to raise the bar for hardware specs and quality if they want me to keep buying HTC devices, regardless of the OS.
edit: And agreeing with coolVariable, I'd love a device that could easily be configured to run either natively. That would be an instant sale from me. I have a feeling MS's licensing wouldn't make it easy, though.
I'd switch in a heartbeat to anything different from HTC/WinMo as long as it's available on my Sprint SERO plan.
Bulldog said:
My Understanding is that MS doesn’t work and listen well with the manufacturer. There are many complains on current WinMo capabilities and how time consuming it is to write application for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, if this is the case, it may explain partly why HTC is betting so much on Android so suddenly. To be honest, if it is the case, I wouldn't be surprised either. I've seen similar techniques employed by other companies in other industries recently too.
Still, corporate shenanigans or not, 50% still seems like a massive shift to me, but I'm guessing the plan might change if their 2009 30% path becomes bumpy.
coolVariable said:
Not sure if I really need another OS in the mix. I wouldn't mind a device that can do both Android and WinMo but only Android ... probably not. Then I might as well make the jump to the iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both Android and WinMo? You mean sort of a dual boot deal or simply a device that can install either Android or WinMo roms? That would be fantastic; I think we can all agree on that. I think we can all agree too that it's unlikely.
8525Smart said:
True, but I'm guessing one's choices may also become a bit more limited if HTC's Android support increases even further. Look at HTC's list of Android-based phones now. If you happen to not like any of the *three* choices, whether it be due to design, specs, or whatever other reason, then you're pretty much out of luck, aren't you?
On the other hand, if you don't like one HTC WinMo-based phone, you literally have a dozen other choices in various designs and specs to fit your desire.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don´t think so, there are so many models with WM to choose from, and there will be more coming.
The actual number of Andorid models is low, and as you said, it will increase, but that is good so more options will be available.
As I said, I´ll stick to HTC WM models, at least in following 2 years...Then we can see what is Android doing and perhaps I can consider...
Great thread!
I think I will continue buying HTC phones even if there was a large Android base, even more than 50%. I like Android and all, and maybe in the future I may even take one myself, but WM is so customizable and i have it just the way i like it and wouldnt change it for anything (except for a newer more powerful device maybe tegra/snapdragon which im holding out for)
I have to give credit where credit is due: if it wasn't for this site, my tp may have been my first and last winmo phone. I wouldnt have the functionality and great experience that i do now without the help of the folks here.
BTW, I think this thread would benefit greatly from a poll, as many dont have the time to post, but everyone has time to vote.
orb3000 said:
I don´t think so, there are so many models with WM to choose from, and there will be more coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, currently, but if HTC does shift to majority Android-based phones, then the number of WinMo-based models will inevitably go down (in favor of Android-based models instead), which will then result in a lack of choices.
Nonetheless, I do agree with you. If Android eventually shows more promise, I would reconsider too, but at this point, I still prefer to switch to OSX/WebOS if I have to leave WinMo.
euphoria47 said:
BTW, I think this thread would benefit greatly from a poll, as many dont have the time to post, but everyone has time to vote.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, you're right. I don't know how I missed that simple bit of fact. Unfortunately, I think it's a bit late for me to make a poll now.
P.S. Thank you for the compliment.
8525Smart said:
Well, I wasn't referring to company/OS loyalty; my apology if I gave that impression. What I really meant was a question of how much one likes using Windows Mobile vs how much one likes XDA support.
As I said, I'm presuming there's a certain number of people here who likes WinMo, so I'm trying to gauge how many people would stick with HTC in the case of such a large move. From your post, I'm assuming you'll go with the best device regardless of OS or XDA support, though?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i knew what you were asking. and you are correct. i'll go with the best device regardless of OS or XDA support right now.
i mean, right now im using an IPhone because it was the best for me at the time. and now i want to switch to the Tp2. saying "i won't buy XXXX device because it is made by XXXX company and runs XXXX Operating system severely limits choices.
Why of course!!!!
ok saw a post on the sprint hero boards and wanted to ask over here aswell since the g1 area has a lot more developers for it.
would porting webOS to an android phone seem possible? I had a palm pre for a bit was cool and fast, I like android more but the thought of running it would be cool
Noooooooooo
You mean porting over apps?
or running webOS on your phone?
In a word:
No.
In more words:
We need drivers. There are no WebOS drivers for Android devices. Many of the existing drivers that we need are proprietary, meaning (and I'm not sure on this part) most likely the hardware specifications necessary to write drivers are closed as well. If they are not closed, it would be possible--but not for a team of geeks like XDA. You'd need a major entity, like Google, to do it, which won't happen. Besides, not all of WebOS is completely open-source, just like not ALL of what goes into Android phones is. It's just not possible--even if the driver issue could be overcome, which it can't.
Yet another word:
This is a question, so it belongs in Q&A. Not to be a jerk or anything, but just letting you know, so next time you can post there.
Doesn't seem possible at this current time however I disagree with the post above if all of xda devs came together then it might be possible due to the fact cyanogen im guessing could make his own drivers etc. However as said above it would not be possible due to the fact it is not completely open-source
ps: Why would you want webOS it is nothing compared to android - IF you agree then post back with this a smile ^_^
xillius200 said:
Doesn't seem possible at this current time however I disagree with the post above if all of xda devs came together then it might be possible due to the fact cyanogen im guessing could make his own drivers etc. However as said above it would not be possible due to the fact it is not completely open-source
ps: Why would you want webOS it is nothing compared to android - IF you agree then post back with this a smile ^_^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you ever written a device driver? You need detailed spec of the interfaces of the piece of hardware you're trying to talk to. Without them you're trying to build the Empire State Building blindfolded with a teaspoon and pair of pliers.
linuxluver said:
Have you ever written a device driver? You need detailed spec of the interfaces of the piece of hardware you're trying to talk to. Without them you're trying to build the Empire State Building blindfolded with a teaspoon and pair of pliers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay so simply put we would need MacGyver to write the drivers...
you know, none of this is true, as the drivers for all of the HTC android phones have the drivers built into the kernel (as opposed to running as modules with the exception of wifi) because of GPL, they have released this information, albeit kinda late (*cough* CDMA hero) one stumbling block is how WebOS is going to interface with the drivers may be different, keep in palm has its kernel modifications "drivers" also available (once again because of GPL) so if interfacing is different, it COULD possibly be reverse engineered... the actual WebOS platform IS closed source however, making this all much much more difficult.
http://developer.htc.com/
http://opensource.palm.com/
dont let anyone tell you its impossible, its not. Are you going to port it? No, if you had to start this thread, then its not likely.
mbazdell said:
Okay so simply put we would need MacGyver to write the drivers...
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Click to collapse
rofl..............
Napoleon said:
Impossible is a word only to be found in the dictionary of fools.
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Click to collapse
That said I like my android
linuxluver said:
Have you ever written a device driver? You need detailed spec of the interfaces of the piece of hardware you're trying to talk to. Without them you're trying to build the Empire State Building blindfolded with a teaspoon and pair of pliers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also yeah without knowing about the phone it is like building the empire state building. That's why you buy the phone open it up find details on the phone first off and try and figure it out by taking a long look and experimenting otherwise you will never get anywhere. It is like life without actually doing it and just saying about it you will never achieve it so you do it
If Cyanogen or another dev decided to do this it is not impossible as long as they know how to build a device driver which i know 4 of the devs on here can do it is not impossible. The question is would they actually do this project?
Personally I do not see a point in this project if you wanted a webOS why didn't you buy a palm sry if i may sound a little rude but it is the truth why buy a android?
If i may have sounded rude in the sentence above i am very sry you can shun me down
xillius200 said:
For linux once never went my way and stop having a go i was just voicing my opinion it is a free country im just saying with cyanogenmod, Wesgarner, Ctso, Kingklick etc. we stand a great chance at doing it and i bet cyan must have made a device driver before. so please don't go off on one i don't care if this get's made as stated below android is better anyway so get off my back linuxluver and stop being a jackass all I was trying to say is it could be done and not impossible you are making it sound like we have no hope in hell.
ps: I only wan't to come on here to chat and make friends not to be abused
ps2: Also yeah without knowing about the phone it is like building the empire state building. That's why you buy the phone open it up find details on the phone first off and try and figure it out without taking a long look and experimenting you will never get anywhere. It is like life without actually doing it and just saying about it you will never achieve it so you do it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You really have no idea whatsoever as to how computer hardware works. Like the other person said, there just isn't a chance in hell of a small group of people working in their free time without the cooperation of hardware manufacturers to do what you're saying.
Look at AOSP, think of all the people working on it, and we still don't have everything working on it correctly. And that's with an open-source OS, not to mention Android was meant to use on these HTC phones anyway.
Web OS is really nice but doesn't seem very popular considering only 2 phones have it while. 10+ phones will come out with Android. I bet if this was done the person asking would use it for like a month then go to another ROM. Which means all that work trying to make drivers would go in vain.
xencor said:
You really have no idea whatsoever as to how computer hardware works. Like the other person said, there just isn't a chance in hell of a small group of people working in their free time without the cooperation of hardware manufacturers to do what you're saying.
Look at AOSP, think of all the people working on it, and we still don't have everything working on it correctly. And that's with an open-source OS, not to mention Android was meant to use on these HTC phones anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So is a small group of people not good enough look at bill gates for example creator of microsoft started of with the apple man 2 people now we have microsoft windows and apple so are you saying a small group of people can't do something amazing every now and again?
Also i do not care about webOS i hate webOS in fact i just wanted to extract my opinion and further fourth nothing is impossible look at wireless electricity about a few years ago seen as a myth now look at it. This could be done one day maybe not now but sometime in the future. Most of webOS is in java anyway and most of it is using dbus.
I thought that emulating it on a jvm may be possible? like freedsb running over the top of windows in a vm.
Also all those who port drivers from windows to linux and max to windows etc. have no help from the manafacturers and they still manage to do it and they work alone.
Im not going to voice my opinion in this thread again i have had enough with people who don't let people talk their mind all it was was an opinion nothing more and a possible chance of it working instead of it sounding like it's impossible unless you try you will never know and that is that stuff this thread i have had enough with you people i am out of here don't bother replying to this because i will not read it.
xillius200 said:
So is a small group of people not good enough look at bill gates for example creator of microsoft started of with the apple man 2 people now we have microsoft windows so youre point is?
Also i do not care about webOS i hate webOS in fact i just wanted to extract my opinion and further fourth nothing is impossible look at wireless electricity about a few years ago seen as a myth now look at it. This could be done one day maybe not now but sometime in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do the developers on XDA have a source of revenue that I'm unaware of? Do they have billions of dollars in profits that spurn growth and encourage new, more experienced developers to join the business and help? Is there even a business at all?
The answer is no. There is no R&D department behind XDA. There is no venture capital firm supporting cyanogen or kingklick with money.
Again, you really have no idea what you're talking about. This isn't just a "take open the phone, look at the serial number on the board, and then write your own driver." This is something that computer manufacturers spend years developing their own proprietary code and then design specific chipsets to work with it. Years and money, lots and lots of money.
And you're still forgetting that webOS and even parts of android are not open sourced, which complicates it even further, even to the extent of making a webOS port technically illegal under copyright laws.
xencor said:
not to mention Android was meant to use on these HTC phones anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not 100% true, both android and WebOS run on top of the linux kernel, drivers are already written, like I said, its not a rewrite of drivers, rather interfacing with hardware may be different, but thanks to GPL, we can more easily figure out how the software interfaces with the drivers since we have drivers (albeit for some different hardware) for both Palm AND Android devices... obviously this would all be no easy task... but hell, android work tits on my Kaiser, with the radio/sms/wifi/camera/gps.... and it WASN'T designed to run android!
something else to mention I suppose is the work done to get Mer Linux (Open source replacement for Maemo) running on the Kaiser/Vogue, it booted and its X system worked enough to get to setup information, albeit the screen was too low of a res to do much and it has far too little ram to be useful... let me put it this way... it would be entirely possible for someone to port WebOS over, though the radio/BT/Wifi/accel/etc. may not work initially. I'd be stoked to try out test builds, and I think so would MANY other people.
*broken down: android wasnt meant to run on these phones, linux was meant to, and android was meant to run on top of that*
xencor said:
Do the developers on XDA have a source of revenue that I'm unaware of? Do they have billions of dollars in profits that spurn growth and encourage new, more experienced developers to join the business and help? Is there even a business at all?
The answer is no. There is no R&D department behind XDA. There is no venture capital firm supporting cyanogen or kingklick with money.
Again, you really have no idea what you're talking about. This isn't just a "take open the phone, look at the serial number on the board, and then write your own driver." This is something that computer manufacturers spend years developing their own proprietary code and then design specific chipsets to work with it. Years and money, lots and lots of money.
And you're still forgetting that webOS and even parts of android are not open sourced, which complicates it even further, even to the extent of making a webOS port technically illegal under copyright laws.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have already said in my earlier post that it is not open-source so read b4 you post and even the smallest one man on his own can do someting incredible look at DA cracked the psp 14-15yo and wrote his own drivers and software and look at the ps3 hacker who has found exploit through the memory neither of them have a company or backing just normal people and are you saying that is not possible?
i will not talk any longer all in all webOS is a stupid idea it could be possible one day and end of
ps: I don't like but jmhalder is cool
jmhalder said:
not 100% true, both android and WebOS run on top of the linux kernel, drivers are already written, like I said, its not a rewrite of drivers, rather interfacing with hardware may be different, but thanks to GPL, we can more easily figure out how the software interfaces with the drivers since we have drivers (albeit for some different hardware) for both Palm AND Android devices... obviously this would all be no easy task... but hell, android work tits on my Kaiser, with the radio/sms/wifi/camera/gps.... and it WASN'T designed to run android!
something else to mention I suppose is the work done to get Mer Linux (Open source replacement for Maemo) running on the Kaiser/Vogue, it booted and its X system worked enough to get to setup information, albeit the screen was too low of a res to do much and it has far too little ram to be useful... let me put it this way... it would be entirely possible for someone to port WebOS over, though the radio/BT/Wifi/accel/etc. may not work initially. I'd be stoked to try out test builds, and I think so would MANY other people.
*broken down: android wasnt meant to run on these phones, linux was meant to, and android was meant to run on top of that*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for talking some sense on the subject that it is possible thank you very much i respect you because you think anything is possible you may go far in the world. the one's who never try may never know and for that will fall behind. You are the only one on here who talks sense and for that i applaud you
ps: Very Much thanks from Xillius200 for believing it to be possible instead of just shooting it down
ps2: It takes a true person to not give up and takes a less person to give up straight away so never give up
xillius200 said:
I have already said in my earlier post that it is not open-source so read b4 you post and even the smallest one man on his own can do someting incredible look at DA cracked the psp 14-15yo and wrote his own drivers and software and look at the ps3 hacker who has found exploit through the memory neither of them have a company or backing just normal people and are you saying that is not possible?
i will not talk any longer all in all webOS is a stupid idea it could be possible one day and end of
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DA did not write his own drivers. "Cracking" and using existing drivers is not nearly the same thing, nor is using a loophole in a PS3 memory chip.
Again, i'm sorry, but you just have no idea what you're talking about.
As someone else has pointed out by now, it might actually be possible to get webOS on an android phone, but that's only because the drivers already exist, not because cyanogen and XDA are gods and can do what you're proposing.
xencor said:
DA did not write his own drivers. "Cracking" and using existing drivers is not nearly the same thing, nor is using a loophole in a PS3 memory chip.
Again, i'm sorry, but you just have no idea what you're talking about.
As someone else has pointed out by now, it might actually be possible to get webOS on an android phone, but that's only because the drivers already exist, not because cyanogen and XDA are gods and can do what you're proposing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not calling them gods writing different drivers seperate to a device is possible and DA did write some of his own drivers for the psp for addons and linking to the pc. Also to gain access to the memory he had to make a device and write a driver for it that devices already came wth a driver but he wrote his own. This was a different person XD
And i have had enough i am out of here dont know why the hell we are argueing you do not know much about android either so leave it at that and keep the forum open
I here by cease this fighting going on and say good day
Out of curiosity, will the XDA-Developers community work with the iPhone? While it isn't part of the HTC family, it now has Android, and still needs drivers. This just seems like the kind of thing that the community here would do.
Every thing on it´s place
I don´t think this will ever happen.
Respectfully I wouldn´t want to see that here...
It has now Android as HTC started manufacturing those
Microsoft and Apple can't be combined.
It's just impossible.
And, as Orb3000 says, I wouldn't want to see that here.
It will never happen.
[ElCondor] said:
Microsoft and Apple can't be combined.
It's just impossible.
And, as Orb3000 says, I wouldn't want to see that here.
It will never happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that both companies seem to be going down the same path with their phone OS's, and there is already a Windows Phone 7 subsection here.
But as long as this place covers only HTC phones, or until HTC starts making iPhones (a great day that would be), should probably stick with Android and WinMo.
MooGoo said:
until HTC starts making iPhones (a great day that would be), should probably stick with Android and WinMo.
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Click to collapse
to be honest, i hope that's not going to happen
hard to imagine xda devs turns into a phone games community
and if that ever happens (i know it wont ) just try to imagine how many dumb i phone users will be spamming the board with all their idiotic questions
I hope, for both your sakes, that Windows Phone 7 crashes and burns.
MooGoo said:
Except that both companies seem to be going down the same path with their phone OS's, and there is already a Windows Phone 7 subsection here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is no argument at all. Why are they going 'down' the same path? They're totally different companies, there is absolutely no similarity.
--> http://iphone-developers.com/
[ElCondor] said:
This is no argument at all. Why are they going 'down' the same path? They're totally different companies, there is absolutely no similarity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kind of like how Intel and AMD are totally different companies?
Of course there is some similarity in that they both produce proprietary operating systems for computers and phones.
Some people here seem to be fretting about the possibility of a torrent of iPhone users flooding the forums with noobish questions if xda-devs started to work on iPhone OS; my point was that this is very likely to happen with Windows Phone 7 when it is released, and there seems to be no debate here on whether to support that OS or not.
I said "same path" because both OS's are locked down consumer oriented platforms, as opposed to the relatively open and business oriented nature of WinMo. Of course only time will tell how similar these OS's turn out to be...
But I do agree with you that the iPhone should not be dealt with here, since the iPhone is not made by HTC, and since iPhone hacking is already covered more than sufficiently elsewhere.
OK you're right, I take my words back that there's no similarity.
But windows is mostly software based (apart from xbox and Zune), while Apple makes various hardware components. It really is a totally different company.
I am probably not considering something very obvious, such as "focus", but with the news that HP has now bought Palm, rescuing the highly praised webOS from a premature death, would HTC --- do you think --- ever make a webOS smartphone?
Aren't they playing it rather cool at the moment re Windows Phone? -- with some speculation that Microsoft's lockdowns would prohibit things like SenseUI, thereby giving reason to question "why make phones at all for Windows?" ... So, with that thought floating around, I'm just not familiar with the proprietary relationships between Palm and its device manufacturers.
Someone help me out here:
(1) Phone Manufacturers making devices for Android OS:
HTC
Motorola
Samsung
Sony
Acer
(Toshiba?)
( )
(2) Phone Manufacturers slated to make devices for WindowsPhone series 7:
??
(3) Phone Manufacturers who design phones for Blackberry:
?? (I don't know this market at all, but am curious)
(4) Phone Manufacturers who make phones currently for Palm (the Pre, Pixie)
?? again, i just don't know, have never followed this
(5) Phone Manufacturers who make phones for iPhone OS:
Apple
(some knock-off called Syphone, right? but does it actually run apple's OS?)
I'm pretty sure blackberry design its own phones.
Everyone (or at least most of them) you have listed up in the Android section is also making WP7 devices. Additionally also DELL. Nokia is also doing close business with Microsoft. It's a pity! They should rather jump on Android as well if they want to get out there alive
WalkingTaco said:
I'm pretty sure blackberry design its own phones.
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Click to collapse
Really? They have in-house product design, or do they contract it out secretively and just brand every result a RIM device?
I know next to nothing about Blackberrys other than the hype about redundant servers and lots of reasons why they have been billed as the secure email solution for all these lawfirm and gopvernment types...
But once they went touchscreen, do they actually have a separate OS, or do they not distinguish between the hardware and software -- for marketing purposes so as not to confuse their customers about their core message of secure mesaging?
Followup since maybe you know a thing or two about blackberrys: the storm was a bust, right? At the time it was considered laughbalethat they could penetrate the casual consumer market.. but have they come back with better offerings in the touchscreen arena?
Do you see them always in some way presrving their core hardware philosophy of keyboard below screen, single orientatation vs rotate? ... or do you think they will try to move their diehard custimers toweard bigger screens like droid, and give them a slide out, flip out, fold over, or other kind of deployable hardware keyboard?
Just curiousabout your thoughts/
RAMMANN said:
Everyone (or at least most of them) you have listed up in the Android section is also making WP7 devices. Additionally also DELL. Nokia is also doing close business with Microsoft. It's a pity! They should rather jump on Android as well if they want to get out there alive
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay I figured that re WP7 device makers, since they came first and android was tapped next... But dell makes touchscreen devices? damn, i never knew that! Their marketing must be lousy.
Nokia keeps baffling me.
RAMMANN, I saw you commenting (i think ) in that " WP7 fail" thread, right, aren't you active in that?
Regardless: Help me understand this: I've never understood the Symbian OS or its market simply because i never had a symbian powered phone... But, isn't this correct -- about a year ago nokia bought symbian, right? But my recollection from back then -- which may be wrong -- was that they were going to kill it -- or simply use it as a proprietary OS in their own phones.
And yet... within that WP7 fail thread, numerous comments particularly at the start of the thread sang the praises of Symbian OS as the most efficient and best Open source OS out there -- with those praising it saying that, by contrast, ANdroid is a battery hog and ineffcient in its process managewment... The precise details are not so impt for what I want to knoiw:
Although I have known nothing about Symbian, the buzz, whenever i heard it mentioned over the past 5 years, was always positive... almost cult-like ... or rather "true believers" because it was that outstanding an OS...
So, if that is the case... and Nokia bought them, what WAS their plan? to give them respources to develop it further fortheir exclusive use, or what? The discussion confused me becasue it made it seem to me that it was still a very active OS outthere for developers to work with...
So what am I missing her.. it seems like I am missing the whole story. And re Nokia themselves... why are they always -- to my mind -- considered in an entirely different box or category from WM (i don;t like calling WP), Android, iPhone, WebOS, Blackberry? They never seem to get parity... The only time I hear or see Nokia mentioned is when someone wants to make a comparison about how inefficinet current phones are, and how their Nokia from 10 years ago could do virtually everything Phone X can do today (minus the big media player screen) with battery charge lasting 5 days, and stuff of that nature... or they mention the Nokia N900 as the best phone out there --- yet it rarely comes up in the big compariosn tests.
Why is that?
And does N900 run symbian OS? If so, is it marketed that way? [EDIT: OKAY I just read this part, so i see that answer is no: which begs the question AGAIN: why are devs here at XDA continuing to extoll the greatness of symbian ?? why?? Is it The Poor Little OS That Nobody Really Took The Time To Understand? or what??
EDIT: from a review contained in link above:
The main buzz about the Nokia N900 has centred on its operating system. Instead of the ageing Symbian S60 OS found in all Nokia's top end blowers, Espoo has opted for Maemo 5 instead. And we're pleased to say the results, as far as the OS is concerned, are every bit as good as we hoped. Maemo 5 is a far more intuitive OS than S60 and certainly edges out the N97 for ease of use. The menus are clear and straight forward, so you won't spend ages rooting around for what you want when you need it. It feels way more powerful too, with the Nokia N900 dealing with multitasking at lightning speed.
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And finally, this statement:
Nokia is also doing close business with Microsoft. It's a pity! They should rather jump on Android as well if they want to get out there alive
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First off, how are they collaborating? Are they not in direct competition with head-to-head OS ?
... Were you alluding to more of a case of Nokia hooking up with the wrong contender for SURVIVING ALONG WITH IPHONE -- Windows vs Android? -- or were you alluding to Nokia having company stability problems like Palm was having, heading straight inot the tank -- before rescued last second by HP?
I know these are lots of questions -- but it's because I see the events of Palm's acquisition as being way more significant than others might see. And so it has promoted all these questions... yes... about survival as consumers start to select in the next year which touchscreen platforms start to go away because they just can't compete anymore, lacking sufficient differentiation or value proposition.
Any answer -- even if to just one of my 50 questions -- would be valued! thank you
I don't know what you are all asking, but trying to answer....
I never had Symbian device, nor do I really know a lot about the openess of the OS. From what I heard it was very open in the beginning (maybe similar to Windows Mobile?) but then suddenly lots of viruses began to spread and the Symbian OS got locked down. I think it's a similar Sandbox approach like on Android. Though I can't really say this is correct, it's only what I heard from people, so far I never did any research on my own.
Nokia jumpin on WP7 instead of Android, I took a piss on it because I think WP7 sucks. Currently it's not even sure the OS will be successful. Android already is.
That's all.... really nothing to worry about or put a lot of thoughts into
design != produce
htc produce devices for others and design for others or at least used to
apple, ms.... don't produce their hardware they design it and have others produce it
quicksite said:
Apple
(some knock-off called Syphone, right? but does it actually run apple's OS?)
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It doesn't. The old ones used to run Nucleous Plus OS. I heard some versions are running android / windows 6.1 now.
Real quick, too much to read. I know BlackBerry is owned by RIM. I think they actually manufacture it and distribute it. I don't know if you were asking about RIM or just knew nothing about BlackBerrys.
And why companies operate with Microsoft: money.
Thanks for the answers.
So Blackberry makes Blackerrys. check.
Nokia to work with MS because of money. Okay.
HTC produces devices platform owners prescribe, ie to match the WM hardware and OS specs and Android hardware and OS specs.
I ask too many questions, I'll admit that. But my two main ones remain unaswered, not even close. (still, why can't people take 10 minutes occasionally for some big picture thinking, why is everything reduced down to twitter chatter?
(1) My thread topic question -- no one has even taken a stab at it. Who currently makes the phones that run webOS? i.e., who made the Pre and Pixie. ... with HP's acquisition of Palm, do you see HP wanting to exclusively manufacture Palm devices? ... or do you see them having any interest in having more device choice by asking HTC to develop phones for webOS. That's my main question. My guess is: no one knows. fair enough.
(2) My 2nd main question was what Nokia's plans for Symbian were. ANd could someone sort out the mixed message? At that "Windows Phone 7 epic fail" thread, various XDA-devs sing the praises of Symbian as a better OS than android, way more efficient. .. Then I read the review for the Nokia N900 and it says Nokia jettisoned Symbian as outdated. So wtf are people talking about re SYmbian then? And does it have a future?
RELATED: In the Touchscreen OS Wars of 2010-2011, it looks like webOS will live to see another day, WP7 will likely survive and thrive in its enterprise market niche or wherever the hell their niche turns out to be. iPhone OS survives. Android survives -- and yet -- you read some online magazines and people love to speak of market fragmentation already happening with Android, and that it's already spelling doom and gloom for Android yadda yadda... I think though that is true re the 2.1 vs 1.5. 1.6 version problems and Google ought to get their act togeher, Android , unless they misstep, is here to stay.
But will Blackberry have and be a touchscreen OS, or a platform Blackberry builds off of, or will it be phased out?
And what of Symbian? Is it in effect dead now in terms of a platform for mainstream consumer devices?
quicksite said:
(1) My thread topic question -- no one has even taken a stab at it. Who currently makes the phones that run webOS? i.e., who made the Pre and Pixie. ... with HP's acquisition of Palm, do you see HP wanting to exclusively manufacture Palm devices? ... or do you see them having any interest in having more device choice by asking HTC to develop phones for webOS. That's my main question. My guess is: no one knows. fair enough.
RELATED: In the Touchscreen OS Wars of 2010-2011, it looks like webOS will live to see another day, WP7 will likely survive and thrive in its enterprise market niche or wherever the hell their niche turns out to be. iPhone OS survives. Android survives -- and yet -- you read some online magazines and people love to speak of market fragmentation already happening with Android, and that it's already spelling doom and gloom for Android yadda yadda... I think though that is true re the 2.1 vs 1.5. 1.6 version problems and Google ought to get their act togeher, Android , unless they misstep, is here to stay.
But will Blackberry have and be a touchscreen OS, or a platform Blackberry builds off of, or will it be phased out?
And what of Symbian? Is it in effect dead now in terms of a platform for mainstream consumer devices?
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I'm sorry, but your topic question is is very bold letters on wikipedia. Pal, Inc. is the manufacturer of the Palm Pixi. Almost every question you have related to who makes what is easiest thing to find on Google.
BlackBerry has a touchscreen OS. The BlackBerry Storm? Hello? BlackBerry is here to stay. It is very useful for office phones. My fathers work actually distributes those now instead of beepers. When you need a phone for nothing but e-mail and scheduling and nothing else - BlackBerrys are the best. Who knows about touchscreen as their not really trying to apply to teenagers and fashion freaks. They're trying to make a phone that's good for business - and their doing a very good job.
Android will always be here to stay. Trust me on this. There's nothing wrong with the market. If you did read that, it's just a rumor. Google has no reason to "get their act together." Android was just born, and it's getting developed fast. See, they could wait like Apple and make a new generation only every now and again, or shoot out updates rapidly. I like updates rapidly. =]
r3s-rt said:
I'm sorry, but your topic question is is very bold letters on wikipedia. Pal, Inc. is the manufacturer of the Palm Pixi. Almost every question you have related to who makes what is easiest thing to find on Google.=]
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Okay then, fine. That's the literal side of XDA that i find so unrefreshing. On the other hand, there are thousands to compensate for your snide attitude who recognize the underlying question is about impact of HP buying Palm and what ripple effects we might see.
Let me google that:
"ripple effects we might see due to HP buying Palm"
I'm sure it'll be fascinating, but in any event probably a lot more interesting than anything you've added here.
Chastising and pulling the old "use search" rubric is quite boring and indicative of a tunnelvision mind. But thanks for an answer at least.
quicksite said:
Okay then, fine. That's the literal side of XDA that i find so unrefreshing. On the other hand, there are thousands to compensate for your snide attitude who recognize the underlying question is about impact of HP buying Palm and what ripple effects we might see.
Let me google that:
"ripple effects we might see due to HP buying Palm"
I'm sure it'll be fascinating, but in any event probably a lot more interesting than anything you've added here.
Chastising and pulling the old "use search" rubric is quite boring and indicative of a tunnelvision mind. But thanks for an answer at least.
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And that's what 90% of people at XDA find so unrefreshing. You ask a question (one very simple to answer) without trying to find it out yourself. Then you post a thread and when people respond with ideas, you INSULT THEM for not knowing! THEN, when we help for future reference, you INSULT?! You actually expect us to help you? Next time I see you, I'll be sure to kick you in the nuts and demand you take me out to dinner.
It's not like I even had to dig through Google!
http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=&sou...anufactures+palm&gs_rfai=&fp=84c7fb41710deb10
Very, very simple search with 10 results right there. Don't insult me because you're lazy or just that stupid.
edit: To your ripple effect remark:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...after+buying+palm&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
DID THAT JUST WORK!? ZOMG!
For many of the questions you ask people can only answer with spectaculations, esp. thread title, so what would you expect? and btw this is usually a development forum
I personally don't understand the fragmentation issue people claim over Android. I don't have an Android phone and therefore never had a chance to access the market but from what I heard people with Android 1.6 don't see applications designed for 2.1 and sometimes vice versa. Actually that's a good thing because this way it is secured that you're not installing an app that doesn't work on your phone. And if developers are still active on such projects they will add support for future versions of Android and if they don't then their projects will die. That's also a good thing. This is better solved compared to WM. Imagine you have 6.5 and install applications designed for PPC 2003. Sometimes they work, sometimes not, sometimes they work but just look ugly (designed for stylus etc.)
Like I said before I can't tell this for sure, but probably an experienced Android user can confirm this or otherwise tell what's wrong....
RAMMANN said:
For many of the questions you ask people can only answer with spectaculations, esp. thread title, so what would you expect? and btw this is usually a development forum
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Was this to me, or him? o.o
I personally don't understand the fragmentation issue people claim over Android. I don't have an Android phone and therefore never had a chance to access the market but from what I heard people with Android 1.6 don't see applications designed for 2.1 and sometimes vice versa. Actually that's a good thing because this way it is secured that you're not installing an app that doesn't work on your phone. And if developers are still active on such projects they will add support for future versions of Android and if they don't then their projects will die. That's also a good thing. This is better solved compared to WM. Imagine you have 6.5 and install applications designed for PPC 2003. Sometimes they work, sometimes not, sometimes they work but just look ugly (designed for stylus etc.)
Like I said before I can't tell this for sure, but probably an experienced Android user can confirm this or otherwise tell what's wrong....
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I see plenty of 2.1 only apps in the market, and vice versa (from all the comments "Duuhhjuu doesn't run on my droid which isn't 1.6 even though you clearly say its for donut only duhhhjjuu" I wish this was true, and this is why many dev. actually stop developing.
And if it doesn't run - it doesn't run. You get a force close. If it runs - it runs.
r3s-rt said:
And that's what 90% of people at XDA find so unrefreshing. You ask a question (one very simple to answer) without trying to find it out yourself. Then you post a thread and when people respond with ideas,
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If you had any ideas about HTC ever manufacturing for webOS touchscreen operating system, i did not see them, for that was the question, and it's never been edited in the title.
you INSULT THEM for not knowing! THEN, when we help for future reference, you INSULT?!
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Honestly r3s-rt, I'm not sure where I see your help at all. Your interest was slapdown from the start, and you got called out on it, and people like you don't like getting called out on anything, so you get into anger mode, and "I'm so much smarter than you" mode. That's what I meant by annoying.
It's not like I even had to dig through Google!
http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=&sou...anufactures+palm&gs_rfai=&fp=84c7fb41710deb10
Very, very simple search with 10 results right there. Don't insult me because you're lazy or just that stupid.
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You are correct that there's a sub-question of the thread topic that is a simple known that a search engine would tell me. If I had posted a thread topic asking "hey guys, who manufactures the palm Pre", it would be relevant. The fact that its incidental to the core question of what change might be introduced by a culture change brought on by HP 's purchase of Palm mitigates your whole operatic theme of "look how quickly I found the answer!"...
edit: To your ripple effect remark:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...after+buying+palm&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
DID THAT JUST WORK!? ZOMG!
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Look, I can tell you think you are about the smartest guy on the planet, and perhaps you are. However, you are showing your oversensitivity to my comment about the twitterization of our culture 's attention span. I stand by that. "Too much to read" was you preface... That stung you. You didn't like that. So you wanted to slam. I understand that. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings implying you had an impatiently short attention span.
If you DO happen to read this whole post, consider the following:
Here is a snapshot of your search results that allegedly answer the central question of this thread:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
The presence of search results on Google does not equal the opinions of XDA-dev members.
My thread question: Would HTC ever make a Phone for WebOS, now that Palm bought by HP? I think has relevance because there has been quite a lot of discussion since February and the preview of WP7 that HTC might not be so interested in making phones for WP7 given they would be, supposedly, prohibited from including any of the HTC SenseUI interface features they have been developing and improving over the years, from TouchFlo on WM to Sense on Android. Thus, if they were to be removed from the WP7 lineup, my question, sparked by the acquisition of palm by HP, was whether HTC might ever be asked to make phones for the webOS platform. It seems to me to be an interesting question to ask a forum founded around a company that started the touchscreen phone industry.
That is why there is such robust opinion on the 324 posts here on this thread thread WP7 is complete FAIL ... far more depth and insight than could be found by sequential readings from this for example:
The problem is: algorithms still do not replace humans, and much as I find your style of communication annoying, I would probably grow tired, on a desert island, of talking to an algorithm after a while and mush prefer talking to you than to it... much like Man in white and man in black on LOST.
But trust me I get it, you'd much rather be deemed right and thew winner than have a thoughtful speculation about the ripple effects of webOS being kept alive by HP's purchase of Palm. I'm really happy to hear of it. Palm threw a Hail Mary pass with their ground-up webOS and new Pre -- and it was really well reviewed, well- received, and to this day there is considerable praise for webOS. That it was about to die with palm's imminent death would have been too bad.
It will be interesting to see if Microsoft's Hail Mary pass can resuscitate its once dominant mobile platform.
General
Anything that involves all of the phones and doesn't fit in any of the other fora.
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(3) Phone Manufacturers who design phones for Blackberry:
?? (I don't know this market at all, but am curious)
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I know BlackBerry is owned by RIM. I think they actually manufacture it and distribute it.
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But will Blackberry have and be a touchscreen OS, or a platform Blackberry builds off of, or will it be phased out?
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BlackBerry has a touchscreen OS. The BlackBerry Storm? Hello? BlackBerry is here to stay. It is very useful for office phones. My fathers work actually distributes those now instead of beepers. When you need a phone for nothing but e-mail and scheduling and nothing else - BlackBerrys are the best. Who knows about touchscreen as their not really trying to apply to teenagers and fashion freaks. They're trying to make a phone that's good for business - and their doing a very good job.
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(4) Phone Manufacturers who make phones currently for Palm (the Pre, Pixie)
?? again, i just don't know, have never followed this
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Pal, Inc. is the manufacturer of the Palm Pixi.
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I was never here to help? You just got pissy because I simply pointed out that you refused to search, instead you depended on everyone else.
I ask too many questions, I'll admit that. But my two main ones remain unaswered, not even close. (still, why can't people take 10 minutes occasionally for some big picture thinking, why is everything reduced down to twitter chatter?
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There's where you insulted. If you didn't mean that as an insult, it certainly came off as one. However, as I don't use twitter, other than keeping up with companies, news, etc.; I wouldn't know about this twitter talk. I could possibly be wrong.
You called me out on nothing.
I'm sorry, but your topic question is is very bold letters on wikipedia. Pal, Inc. is the manufacturer of the Palm Pixi. Almost every question you have related to who makes what is easiest thing to find on Google.
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That's the most "offensive" thing I could have said. Your response was:
Okay then, fine. That's the literal side of XDA that i find so unrefreshing. On the other hand, there are thousands to compensate for your snide attitude who recognize the underlying question is about impact of HP buying Palm and what ripple effects we might see.
Let me google that:
"ripple effects we might see due to HP buying Palm"
I'm sure it'll be fascinating, but in any event probably a lot more interesting than anything you've added here.
Chastising and pulling the old "use search" rubric is quite boring and indicative of a tunnelvision mind. But thanks for an answer at least.
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Click to collapse
To which I said:
And that's what 90% of people at XDA find so unrefreshing. You ask a question (one very simple to answer) without trying to find it out yourself. Then you post a thread and when people respond with ideas, you INSULT THEM for not knowing! THEN, when we help for future reference, you INSULT?! You actually expect us to help you? Next time I see you, I'll be sure to kick you in the nuts and demand you take me out to dinner.
It's not like I even had to dig through Google!
http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=&sour...c7fb41710deb10
Very, very simple search with 10 results right there. Don't insult me because you're lazy or just that stupid.
edit: To your ripple effect remark:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...=&oq=&gs_rfai=
DID THAT JUST WORK!? ZOMG!
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Now can you follow the conversation? You called me out on what where? I got angry where? I simple stated facts, and even got a humorous laugh out of this.
Here is a snapshot of your search results that allegedly answer the central question of this thread:
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http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sale-of-palm-looking-tougher-2010-04-29
^^ Also taken from my search results.
In a conference call with analysts, Bradley called H-P's $1.2 billion deal to buy Palm a "transformational deal." He noted the company's similar Silicon Valley backgrounds, and promised that H-P will invest "heavily" in Palm, and plans to expand the company's webOS into other devices beyond smartphones. He also said Jon Rubinstein, the CEO of Palm, plans to stay on. See H-P-Palm news story.
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http://gizmodo.com/5526620/hp-buys-palm-how-it-changes-everything
^^ Taken from my search results. Clearly covers your ripple effects.
Ohhh this one's a long one....
Worst Case Scenario
The real challenge might come in reconciling the brand personalities. Palm's products, regardless of how well they've sold, have always been innovative—the Pre was a breath of fresh air when it was released. HP, on the other hand, has tended to paint in broad beige strokes. And their products that do stand out, like the Envy laptop, have come across as derivative. There's also the unfortunate case of iPaq—another HP acquisition that was left to rot.
So will Palm fuel HP's creative capabilities? Or will HP stifle the ingenuity that's made Palm worth buying in the first place?
Best Case Scenario
HP has the resources to fully leverage Palm's software and hardware, and not just on smartphones. And while Palm's problem was never that it couldn't keep up with demand, its main issue—generating demand in the first place—is no longer a problem with HP's reach and marketing budget. HP's made a significant investment thus far in their TouchSmart interface, and while it's a fine skin it can only stand to gain from webOS insights. Can you say webOS tablet?
What May Happen
As for when we'll actually start seeing webOS in HP products, HP's being mum. It's reasonable to expect we won't hear anything more official until the transaction is complete, but there are some very clear paths they can (and probably will) take:
• Phones—Whither the iPaq? Ha, who cares! It's doubtful that HP would spend this kind of money on an established brand like Palm just to murder it in service of a flimsy brand like iPaq. HP's phone line has always been undistinguished, so for them to buy Palm is effectively to install a pre-made, well-regarded mobile division into their company. So, what does this mean in terms of actual phones?
There will probably be another generation of webOS phones. Yesterday, I wouldn't have felt certain about this; today, it's a good bet. Palm was living and dying by the Pre and Pixi, which were first-gen products running a first-gen operating system. HP's massive resources will give the OS the kind of time it needs to spread its wings on time-appropriate hardware. Imagine a webOS phone with WVGA resolution; with a Snapdragon processor; with a genuinely responsive interface. That's what we're talking about here. Forget the Pre Plus—it's time to start waiting for the Pre II.
The only awkward point here is that HP is an official partner with Microsoft for Windows Phone 7. They've committed to continue working with Windows Phone 7, although one might imagine that their interest in Microsoft's platform diminishes significantly now that they've got their own in-house mobile operating system.
• Computers—With this purchase comes a wealth of intellectual property (patents) spanning decades, much of which concerns touch interfaces. HP has been very, very aggressive in developing touch interfaces for Windows machines with its TouchSmart line, and could easily incorporate some of Palm's mobile tricks into its software. By and large, though, HP's expansive computer lineup will remain unchanged.
• Tablets—HP's tablet strategy is heading in a dangerous direction. The anticipated HP Slate runs Windows 7, a desktop OS, while much of the rest of the industry seems to have opted for mobile OSes. HP hasn't shown a ton of interest in Android in the past, and their tablet plans have so far ignored Google's OS—the presumed competitors to the iPad's iPhone-based OS. Which brings me to what is quite possibly the most exciting possibility here: The webOS tablet.
No, seriously—think about it. WebOS has a more intuitive interface than Android, and better notification system than anyone else, and prodigious social networking abilities. It has a fair amount of apps. It's compatible with the same mobile hardware that's powering many of the first wave of Android tablets. This—this—would be awesome.
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Now, do you really want to continue this flaming me for helping you? o.o
Sorry, I believe this deserves its own post:
But trust me I get it, you'd much rather be deemed right and thew winner than have a thoughtful speculation about the ripple effects of webOS being kept alive by HP's purchase of Palm. I'm really happy to hear of it. Palm threw a Hail Mary pass with their ground-up webOS and new Pre -- and it was really well reviewed, well- received, and to this day there is considerable praise for webOS. That it was about to die with palm's imminent death would have been too bad.
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H-P will invest "heavily" in Palm, and plans to expand the company's webOS into other devices beyond smartphones
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I hear an apology?
Oh, NO HTC will NOT be developing a phone with webos anytime soon. They may try, but that all ends up in HPs hands. If they're smart, and can keep webos on the right track, then no, don't expect to see it on an HTC phone anytime soon.
r3s-rt said:
Now, do you really want to continue this flaming me for helping you? o.o
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Not flaming. But I will take issue with you because you are so heavily invested in being right, so much so that while you place your microscope upon certain pixels that excite you, you ignore, or just don't consider my question worthy of consideration.. which is your right, but why do you have to pollute my thread and take it totally off-topic -- to prove your prowess?
What is wrong with you.
The presence of search results on Google does not equal the opinions of XDA-dev members.
My thread question: Would HTC ever make a Phone for WebOS, now that Palm bought by HP? I think has relevance because there has been quite a lot of discussion since February and the preview of WP7 that HTC might not be so interested in making phones for WP7 given they would be, supposedly, prohibited from including any of the HTC SenseUI interface features they have been developing and improving over the years, from TouchFlo on WM to Sense on Android. Thus, if they were to be removed from the WP7 lineup, my question, sparked by the acquisition of palm by HP, was whether HTC might ever be asked to make phones for the webOS platform. It seems to me to be an interesting question to ask a forum founded around a company that started the touchscreen phone industry.
That is why there is such robust opinion on the 324 posts here on this thread thread WP7 is complete FAIL ... far more depth and insight than could be found by sequential readings from this for example:
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The quoted part above is what I care about. Not someone's story. Not someone's search results. That's not why Im part of XDA... As the Windows Phone 7 example should have amply shown... but again, pixels that didn't allow you to score. Such a tempest in a teapot.
quicksite said:
Not flaming. But I will take issue with you because you are so heavily invested in being right, so much so that while you place your microscope upon certain pixels that excite you, you ignore, or just don't consider my question worthy of consideration.. which is your right, but why do you have to pollute my thread and take it totally off-topic -- to prove your prowess?
What is wrong with you.
The quoted part above is what I care about. Not someone's story. Not someone's search results. That's not why Im part of XDA... As the Windows Phone 7 example should have amply shown... but again, pixels that didn't allow you to score. Such a tempest in a teapot.
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Please, read my last post then come up with an actual response. No more insults. You are just determined for me to insult you, aren't you?
I don't see any other threads on this topic; there doesn't seem to be any serious discussion on porting Windows RT to run on non-official tablets and other ARM systems (raspberry pi for example).
It seems the main hurdle is that Windows RT requires an UEFI bootloader. Apart from a couple of development boards (ARM Versatile Express for example), there isn't any widespread ARM product that has this. Two things: what happens if one tries to boot windows rt from a UEFI capable development board? Second: if the first test shows some success, it would be worth the effort to write an UEFI emulation bootloader like Chameleon for x86.
Can someone with more experience chime in about possible complications and other issues to worry about?
I know it's been done; there are screenshots and such of Windows RT running on HTC HD2 (Leo) smartphone (which was released as a WinMo 6.5 device, but has had WP7, Android, Maemo, Ubuntu, and $DEITY knows what else ported to it).
That said, I don't expect it will be easy for the wide variety of devices. If nothing else, the drivers for all the hardware may be difficult to come by.
I see it. Has any more info come out of it? Was it just uefi emulation?
I want my Acer Iconia A500 to run windows rt. But no one started porting rt to any other Android devices.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
(raspberry pi for example)
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Raspberry Pi is using ARMv6, Windows NT works only on ARMv7 Cortex A9-MP.
I know it's been done; there are screenshots and such of Windows RT running on HTC HD2 (Leo) smartphone (which was released as a WinMo 6.5 device, but has had WP7, Android, Maemo, Ubuntu, and $DEITY knows what else ported to it).
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Yes, it's running on HTC LEO by DFT team. It's not fake.
It seems the main hurdle is that Windows RT requires an UEFI bootloader.
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It's not main hurdle, it's start hurdle. Actually there are much more things after that.
If we are talking about full working system or almost working system the next "hurdles" can be 10x times harder.
there isn't any widespread ARM product that has this.
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BeagleBoard has UEFI bootloader AFAIK. we are used some useful information from there.
It's based on EDK2 kit, MAGLDR-UEFI also based on it as well Surface RT UEFI bootloader.
At the end you forgot the most important thing:
It's a question of legality. While Android and some other OSes are almost free and partially open sourced, Windows RT is closed source system and it's not possible legally install it to any device. System needs activation and etc. Ever information about it.
Some people may say at this point: "ha n00bs, true [email protected] never th1nk ab0ut that", "who care about MS?", "everything should be free"
, but truth actually is different. I am already noticed that
It's why DFT is so careful with spreading any information about that.
Cotulla speaks the truth. Installing RT to systems that didn't come with it means making copies of RT from some other source. Legally speaking, that's almost certainly going to be software piracy, and it's possible that MS would care enough about it to come after this site. That would be bad... This is one of the reasons for the strict anti-piracy rule here.
Cotulla said:
Raspberry Pi is using ARMv6, Windows NT works only on ARMv7 Cortex A9-MP.
Yes, it's running on HTC LEO by DFT team. It's not fake.
It's not main hurdle, it's start hurdle. Actually there are much more things after that.
If we are talking about full working system or almost working system the next "hurdles" can be 10x times harder.
BeagleBoard has UEFI bootloader AFAIK. we are used some useful information from there.
It's based on EDK2 kit, MAGLDR-UEFI also based on it as well Surface RT UEFI bootloader.
At the end you forgot the most important thing:
It's a question of legality. While Android and some other OSes are almost free and partially open sourced, Windows RT is closed source system and it's not possible legally install it to any device. System needs activation and etc. Ever information about it.
Some people may say at this point: "ha n00bs, true [email protected] never th1nk ab0ut that", "who care about MS?", "everything should be free"
, but truth actually is different. I am already noticed that
It's why DFT is so careful with spreading any information about that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, by main hurdle I mean why there isn't much public work on it. I know it would be hard to port a system. And I did not know RPI is armv6 so forget about that. Obviously I understand the legality, but I'm not thinking about widespread releases. I'm looking more into what that dft team did which is just doing something to prove it can be done.
Well since TI demoed windows 8 RT on a TI OMAP 4470 system there has to be a build out there for it. I have a SmartQ X7 which also has the TI OMAP 4470/SGX544 chipset, I'd like to try Windows 8 RT on it as I am sure it would run quite well.
Here Engadget has an article about it.
So should be quite possible I'd think?
Sorry, by main hurdle I mean why there isn't much public work on it. I know it would be hard to port a system. And I did not know RPI is armv6 so forget about that. Obviously I understand the legality, but I'm not thinking about widespread releases. I'm looking more into what that dft team did which is just doing something to prove it can be done.
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Actually we never wanted to "prove that something can be done". We just doing our hobby in spare time.
Ever we run WP8 on old phone, it doesn't mean that MS faked all users. They had reasons and I understand them. Project was started long time ago before it was officially known that WP7 won't be updated to WP8.
From outside view it can look like we wanted to say "Hey MS lies, WP7 devices can run WP8!", but it's not
People look interested to view hobby results, as well we try to provide them some fun. like WP7 HSPL provided fun for ROM cookers, for homebrew apps developers, and those before provided fun for users who like to test new stuff and play with own phone.
Cotulla said:
Actually we never wanted to "prove that something can be done". We just doing our hobby in spare time.
Ever we run WP8 on old phone, it doesn't mean that MS faked all users. They had reasons and I understand them. Project was started long time ago before it was officially known that WP7 won't be updated to WP8.
From outside view it can look like we wanted to say "Hey MS lies, WP7 devices can run WP8!", but it's not
People look interested to view hobby results, as well we try to provide them some fun. like WP7 HSPL provided fun for ROM cookers, for homebrew apps developers, and those before provided fun for users who like to test new stuff and play with own phone.
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What you did was pretty awesome, and I also want to do it. Your work is yours so I'm not going to try to persuade you to give any info, but I want to get Windows RT running on other devices to show that it can be done (not to prove that Microsoft lied but to test my own (and anyone helping's) skills).
Porting to SAMSUNG GALAXY tab 2
Any idea, if it can be done porting to SAMSUNG GALAXY tab 2 ?
Does the hardware fits? As I read, I believe it's fits (like Microsoft surface ARM device).
What do i need to do?
Thanks in Advance!
Any news? I'm thinking about buying an terra 1001 pad :
https://www.google.nl/#hl=nl&sclien...94,d.d2k&fp=3cf597d2212ac5a5&biw=1366&bih=674
Man guys.. just get a Surface RT or Vivo Tab.
Wouldn't it be nice
Cotulla said:
Raspberry Pi is using ARMv6, Windows NT works only on ARMv7 Cortex A9-MP.
Yes, it's running on HTC LEO by DFT team. It's not fake.
It's not main hurdle, it's start hurdle. Actually there are much more things after that.
If we are talking about full working system or almost working system the next "hurdles" can be 10x times harder.
BeagleBoard has UEFI bootloader AFAIK. we are used some useful information from there.
It's based on EDK2 kit, MAGLDR-UEFI also based on it as well Surface RT UEFI bootloader.
At the end you forgot the most important thing:
It's a question of legality. While Android and some other OSes are almost free and partially open sourced, Windows RT is closed source system and it's not possible legally install it to any device. System needs activation and etc. Ever information about it.
Some people may say at this point: "ha n00bs, true [email protected] never th1nk ab0ut that", "who care about MS?", "everything should be free"
, but truth actually is different. I am already noticed that
It's why DFT is so careful with spreading any information about that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, and to be honest the amount of work put into things needs, or should be paid for. Whether MS or Android. What would be nice? A source copy of RT to be paid for and used by any number of singular developers with the contention that MS will not support it, and have that announced publicly. Fact is, people complain when something doesn't work, and it is RARELY the person/manufacturer that they are blaming who are at fault. We as "Humans" give negative publicity out as if it is free candy, 99% of the time we have no real idea who actually is to blame, and forget how many mistakes we ourselves make. By "we" I mean the general public, not anyone or anything specific.
As for that...MS should release the sourcecode. It's a nifty OS and has the potential to be pretty amazing; not to mention the publicity would be good initially. AND...I have a few Tegras laying around I'd LOVE to dual boot with ! SO yes...go MS, give us source food? Don't be Apple
First of all this thread is really old, and probably should have been locked a long time ago.
wcparry said:
SO yes...go MS, give us source food? Don't be Apple
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I really don't think you are going to see this happen, Windows has been closed source since 1985, I really doubt one day in 2013 they are going to wake up and say "oh, lets just opensource this stuff".
wcparry said:
I agree, and to be honest the amount of work put into things needs, or should be paid for. Whether MS or Android. What would be nice? A source copy of RT to be paid for and used by any number of singular developers with the contention that MS will not support it, and have that announced publicly. Fact is, people complain when something doesn't work, and it is RARELY the person/manufacturer that they are blaming who are at fault. We as "Humans" give negative publicity out as if it is free candy, 99% of the time we have no real idea who actually is to blame, and forget how many mistakes we ourselves make. By "we" I mean the general public, not anyone or anything specific.
As for that...MS should release the sourcecode. It's a nifty OS and has the potential to be pretty amazing; not to mention the publicity would be good initially. AND...I have a few Tegras laying around I'd LOVE to dual boot with ! SO yes...go MS, give us source food? Don't be Apple
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Its essentially giving out the whole x86 Windows source code, this will never happen.. I believe
Here's a topic on windows RT recovery: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2079409
Maybe this can help in porting it to other devices.
We know about that thread... We have eyes.
Recovery images are useless for this purpose
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gnidorah said:
Maybe go with windows ce (embedded) + bsp for concrete device instead?
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Well, that wouldn't be RT then, would it? The point of this thread was wondering if RT could be ported to other devices not officially supported, not whether we can install any OS at all.