I am probably not considering something very obvious, such as "focus", but with the news that HP has now bought Palm, rescuing the highly praised webOS from a premature death, would HTC --- do you think --- ever make a webOS smartphone?
Aren't they playing it rather cool at the moment re Windows Phone? -- with some speculation that Microsoft's lockdowns would prohibit things like SenseUI, thereby giving reason to question "why make phones at all for Windows?" ... So, with that thought floating around, I'm just not familiar with the proprietary relationships between Palm and its device manufacturers.
Someone help me out here:
(1) Phone Manufacturers making devices for Android OS:
HTC
Motorola
Samsung
Sony
Acer
(Toshiba?)
( )
(2) Phone Manufacturers slated to make devices for WindowsPhone series 7:
??
(3) Phone Manufacturers who design phones for Blackberry:
?? (I don't know this market at all, but am curious)
(4) Phone Manufacturers who make phones currently for Palm (the Pre, Pixie)
?? again, i just don't know, have never followed this
(5) Phone Manufacturers who make phones for iPhone OS:
Apple
(some knock-off called Syphone, right? but does it actually run apple's OS?)
I'm pretty sure blackberry design its own phones.
Everyone (or at least most of them) you have listed up in the Android section is also making WP7 devices. Additionally also DELL. Nokia is also doing close business with Microsoft. It's a pity! They should rather jump on Android as well if they want to get out there alive
WalkingTaco said:
I'm pretty sure blackberry design its own phones.
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Really? They have in-house product design, or do they contract it out secretively and just brand every result a RIM device?
I know next to nothing about Blackberrys other than the hype about redundant servers and lots of reasons why they have been billed as the secure email solution for all these lawfirm and gopvernment types...
But once they went touchscreen, do they actually have a separate OS, or do they not distinguish between the hardware and software -- for marketing purposes so as not to confuse their customers about their core message of secure mesaging?
Followup since maybe you know a thing or two about blackberrys: the storm was a bust, right? At the time it was considered laughbalethat they could penetrate the casual consumer market.. but have they come back with better offerings in the touchscreen arena?
Do you see them always in some way presrving their core hardware philosophy of keyboard below screen, single orientatation vs rotate? ... or do you think they will try to move their diehard custimers toweard bigger screens like droid, and give them a slide out, flip out, fold over, or other kind of deployable hardware keyboard?
Just curiousabout your thoughts/
RAMMANN said:
Everyone (or at least most of them) you have listed up in the Android section is also making WP7 devices. Additionally also DELL. Nokia is also doing close business with Microsoft. It's a pity! They should rather jump on Android as well if they want to get out there alive
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Click to collapse
Okay I figured that re WP7 device makers, since they came first and android was tapped next... But dell makes touchscreen devices? damn, i never knew that! Their marketing must be lousy.
Nokia keeps baffling me.
RAMMANN, I saw you commenting (i think ) in that " WP7 fail" thread, right, aren't you active in that?
Regardless: Help me understand this: I've never understood the Symbian OS or its market simply because i never had a symbian powered phone... But, isn't this correct -- about a year ago nokia bought symbian, right? But my recollection from back then -- which may be wrong -- was that they were going to kill it -- or simply use it as a proprietary OS in their own phones.
And yet... within that WP7 fail thread, numerous comments particularly at the start of the thread sang the praises of Symbian OS as the most efficient and best Open source OS out there -- with those praising it saying that, by contrast, ANdroid is a battery hog and ineffcient in its process managewment... The precise details are not so impt for what I want to knoiw:
Although I have known nothing about Symbian, the buzz, whenever i heard it mentioned over the past 5 years, was always positive... almost cult-like ... or rather "true believers" because it was that outstanding an OS...
So, if that is the case... and Nokia bought them, what WAS their plan? to give them respources to develop it further fortheir exclusive use, or what? The discussion confused me becasue it made it seem to me that it was still a very active OS outthere for developers to work with...
So what am I missing her.. it seems like I am missing the whole story. And re Nokia themselves... why are they always -- to my mind -- considered in an entirely different box or category from WM (i don;t like calling WP), Android, iPhone, WebOS, Blackberry? They never seem to get parity... The only time I hear or see Nokia mentioned is when someone wants to make a comparison about how inefficinet current phones are, and how their Nokia from 10 years ago could do virtually everything Phone X can do today (minus the big media player screen) with battery charge lasting 5 days, and stuff of that nature... or they mention the Nokia N900 as the best phone out there --- yet it rarely comes up in the big compariosn tests.
Why is that?
And does N900 run symbian OS? If so, is it marketed that way? [EDIT: OKAY I just read this part, so i see that answer is no: which begs the question AGAIN: why are devs here at XDA continuing to extoll the greatness of symbian ?? why?? Is it The Poor Little OS That Nobody Really Took The Time To Understand? or what??
EDIT: from a review contained in link above:
The main buzz about the Nokia N900 has centred on its operating system. Instead of the ageing Symbian S60 OS found in all Nokia's top end blowers, Espoo has opted for Maemo 5 instead. And we're pleased to say the results, as far as the OS is concerned, are every bit as good as we hoped. Maemo 5 is a far more intuitive OS than S60 and certainly edges out the N97 for ease of use. The menus are clear and straight forward, so you won't spend ages rooting around for what you want when you need it. It feels way more powerful too, with the Nokia N900 dealing with multitasking at lightning speed.
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And finally, this statement:
Nokia is also doing close business with Microsoft. It's a pity! They should rather jump on Android as well if they want to get out there alive
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First off, how are they collaborating? Are they not in direct competition with head-to-head OS ?
... Were you alluding to more of a case of Nokia hooking up with the wrong contender for SURVIVING ALONG WITH IPHONE -- Windows vs Android? -- or were you alluding to Nokia having company stability problems like Palm was having, heading straight inot the tank -- before rescued last second by HP?
I know these are lots of questions -- but it's because I see the events of Palm's acquisition as being way more significant than others might see. And so it has promoted all these questions... yes... about survival as consumers start to select in the next year which touchscreen platforms start to go away because they just can't compete anymore, lacking sufficient differentiation or value proposition.
Any answer -- even if to just one of my 50 questions -- would be valued! thank you
I don't know what you are all asking, but trying to answer....
I never had Symbian device, nor do I really know a lot about the openess of the OS. From what I heard it was very open in the beginning (maybe similar to Windows Mobile?) but then suddenly lots of viruses began to spread and the Symbian OS got locked down. I think it's a similar Sandbox approach like on Android. Though I can't really say this is correct, it's only what I heard from people, so far I never did any research on my own.
Nokia jumpin on WP7 instead of Android, I took a piss on it because I think WP7 sucks. Currently it's not even sure the OS will be successful. Android already is.
That's all.... really nothing to worry about or put a lot of thoughts into
design != produce
htc produce devices for others and design for others or at least used to
apple, ms.... don't produce their hardware they design it and have others produce it
quicksite said:
Apple
(some knock-off called Syphone, right? but does it actually run apple's OS?)
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It doesn't. The old ones used to run Nucleous Plus OS. I heard some versions are running android / windows 6.1 now.
Real quick, too much to read. I know BlackBerry is owned by RIM. I think they actually manufacture it and distribute it. I don't know if you were asking about RIM or just knew nothing about BlackBerrys.
And why companies operate with Microsoft: money.
Thanks for the answers.
So Blackberry makes Blackerrys. check.
Nokia to work with MS because of money. Okay.
HTC produces devices platform owners prescribe, ie to match the WM hardware and OS specs and Android hardware and OS specs.
I ask too many questions, I'll admit that. But my two main ones remain unaswered, not even close. (still, why can't people take 10 minutes occasionally for some big picture thinking, why is everything reduced down to twitter chatter?
(1) My thread topic question -- no one has even taken a stab at it. Who currently makes the phones that run webOS? i.e., who made the Pre and Pixie. ... with HP's acquisition of Palm, do you see HP wanting to exclusively manufacture Palm devices? ... or do you see them having any interest in having more device choice by asking HTC to develop phones for webOS. That's my main question. My guess is: no one knows. fair enough.
(2) My 2nd main question was what Nokia's plans for Symbian were. ANd could someone sort out the mixed message? At that "Windows Phone 7 epic fail" thread, various XDA-devs sing the praises of Symbian as a better OS than android, way more efficient. .. Then I read the review for the Nokia N900 and it says Nokia jettisoned Symbian as outdated. So wtf are people talking about re SYmbian then? And does it have a future?
RELATED: In the Touchscreen OS Wars of 2010-2011, it looks like webOS will live to see another day, WP7 will likely survive and thrive in its enterprise market niche or wherever the hell their niche turns out to be. iPhone OS survives. Android survives -- and yet -- you read some online magazines and people love to speak of market fragmentation already happening with Android, and that it's already spelling doom and gloom for Android yadda yadda... I think though that is true re the 2.1 vs 1.5. 1.6 version problems and Google ought to get their act togeher, Android , unless they misstep, is here to stay.
But will Blackberry have and be a touchscreen OS, or a platform Blackberry builds off of, or will it be phased out?
And what of Symbian? Is it in effect dead now in terms of a platform for mainstream consumer devices?
quicksite said:
(1) My thread topic question -- no one has even taken a stab at it. Who currently makes the phones that run webOS? i.e., who made the Pre and Pixie. ... with HP's acquisition of Palm, do you see HP wanting to exclusively manufacture Palm devices? ... or do you see them having any interest in having more device choice by asking HTC to develop phones for webOS. That's my main question. My guess is: no one knows. fair enough.
RELATED: In the Touchscreen OS Wars of 2010-2011, it looks like webOS will live to see another day, WP7 will likely survive and thrive in its enterprise market niche or wherever the hell their niche turns out to be. iPhone OS survives. Android survives -- and yet -- you read some online magazines and people love to speak of market fragmentation already happening with Android, and that it's already spelling doom and gloom for Android yadda yadda... I think though that is true re the 2.1 vs 1.5. 1.6 version problems and Google ought to get their act togeher, Android , unless they misstep, is here to stay.
But will Blackberry have and be a touchscreen OS, or a platform Blackberry builds off of, or will it be phased out?
And what of Symbian? Is it in effect dead now in terms of a platform for mainstream consumer devices?
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I'm sorry, but your topic question is is very bold letters on wikipedia. Pal, Inc. is the manufacturer of the Palm Pixi. Almost every question you have related to who makes what is easiest thing to find on Google.
BlackBerry has a touchscreen OS. The BlackBerry Storm? Hello? BlackBerry is here to stay. It is very useful for office phones. My fathers work actually distributes those now instead of beepers. When you need a phone for nothing but e-mail and scheduling and nothing else - BlackBerrys are the best. Who knows about touchscreen as their not really trying to apply to teenagers and fashion freaks. They're trying to make a phone that's good for business - and their doing a very good job.
Android will always be here to stay. Trust me on this. There's nothing wrong with the market. If you did read that, it's just a rumor. Google has no reason to "get their act together." Android was just born, and it's getting developed fast. See, they could wait like Apple and make a new generation only every now and again, or shoot out updates rapidly. I like updates rapidly. =]
r3s-rt said:
I'm sorry, but your topic question is is very bold letters on wikipedia. Pal, Inc. is the manufacturer of the Palm Pixi. Almost every question you have related to who makes what is easiest thing to find on Google.=]
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Okay then, fine. That's the literal side of XDA that i find so unrefreshing. On the other hand, there are thousands to compensate for your snide attitude who recognize the underlying question is about impact of HP buying Palm and what ripple effects we might see.
Let me google that:
"ripple effects we might see due to HP buying Palm"
I'm sure it'll be fascinating, but in any event probably a lot more interesting than anything you've added here.
Chastising and pulling the old "use search" rubric is quite boring and indicative of a tunnelvision mind. But thanks for an answer at least.
quicksite said:
Okay then, fine. That's the literal side of XDA that i find so unrefreshing. On the other hand, there are thousands to compensate for your snide attitude who recognize the underlying question is about impact of HP buying Palm and what ripple effects we might see.
Let me google that:
"ripple effects we might see due to HP buying Palm"
I'm sure it'll be fascinating, but in any event probably a lot more interesting than anything you've added here.
Chastising and pulling the old "use search" rubric is quite boring and indicative of a tunnelvision mind. But thanks for an answer at least.
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Click to collapse
And that's what 90% of people at XDA find so unrefreshing. You ask a question (one very simple to answer) without trying to find it out yourself. Then you post a thread and when people respond with ideas, you INSULT THEM for not knowing! THEN, when we help for future reference, you INSULT?! You actually expect us to help you? Next time I see you, I'll be sure to kick you in the nuts and demand you take me out to dinner.
It's not like I even had to dig through Google!
http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=&sou...anufactures+palm&gs_rfai=&fp=84c7fb41710deb10
Very, very simple search with 10 results right there. Don't insult me because you're lazy or just that stupid.
edit: To your ripple effect remark:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...after+buying+palm&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
DID THAT JUST WORK!? ZOMG!
For many of the questions you ask people can only answer with spectaculations, esp. thread title, so what would you expect? and btw this is usually a development forum
I personally don't understand the fragmentation issue people claim over Android. I don't have an Android phone and therefore never had a chance to access the market but from what I heard people with Android 1.6 don't see applications designed for 2.1 and sometimes vice versa. Actually that's a good thing because this way it is secured that you're not installing an app that doesn't work on your phone. And if developers are still active on such projects they will add support for future versions of Android and if they don't then their projects will die. That's also a good thing. This is better solved compared to WM. Imagine you have 6.5 and install applications designed for PPC 2003. Sometimes they work, sometimes not, sometimes they work but just look ugly (designed for stylus etc.)
Like I said before I can't tell this for sure, but probably an experienced Android user can confirm this or otherwise tell what's wrong....
RAMMANN said:
For many of the questions you ask people can only answer with spectaculations, esp. thread title, so what would you expect? and btw this is usually a development forum
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Was this to me, or him? o.o
I personally don't understand the fragmentation issue people claim over Android. I don't have an Android phone and therefore never had a chance to access the market but from what I heard people with Android 1.6 don't see applications designed for 2.1 and sometimes vice versa. Actually that's a good thing because this way it is secured that you're not installing an app that doesn't work on your phone. And if developers are still active on such projects they will add support for future versions of Android and if they don't then their projects will die. That's also a good thing. This is better solved compared to WM. Imagine you have 6.5 and install applications designed for PPC 2003. Sometimes they work, sometimes not, sometimes they work but just look ugly (designed for stylus etc.)
Like I said before I can't tell this for sure, but probably an experienced Android user can confirm this or otherwise tell what's wrong....
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Click to collapse
I see plenty of 2.1 only apps in the market, and vice versa (from all the comments "Duuhhjuu doesn't run on my droid which isn't 1.6 even though you clearly say its for donut only duhhhjjuu" I wish this was true, and this is why many dev. actually stop developing.
And if it doesn't run - it doesn't run. You get a force close. If it runs - it runs.
r3s-rt said:
And that's what 90% of people at XDA find so unrefreshing. You ask a question (one very simple to answer) without trying to find it out yourself. Then you post a thread and when people respond with ideas,
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If you had any ideas about HTC ever manufacturing for webOS touchscreen operating system, i did not see them, for that was the question, and it's never been edited in the title.
you INSULT THEM for not knowing! THEN, when we help for future reference, you INSULT?!
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Honestly r3s-rt, I'm not sure where I see your help at all. Your interest was slapdown from the start, and you got called out on it, and people like you don't like getting called out on anything, so you get into anger mode, and "I'm so much smarter than you" mode. That's what I meant by annoying.
It's not like I even had to dig through Google!
http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=&sou...anufactures+palm&gs_rfai=&fp=84c7fb41710deb10
Very, very simple search with 10 results right there. Don't insult me because you're lazy or just that stupid.
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You are correct that there's a sub-question of the thread topic that is a simple known that a search engine would tell me. If I had posted a thread topic asking "hey guys, who manufactures the palm Pre", it would be relevant. The fact that its incidental to the core question of what change might be introduced by a culture change brought on by HP 's purchase of Palm mitigates your whole operatic theme of "look how quickly I found the answer!"...
edit: To your ripple effect remark:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...after+buying+palm&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
DID THAT JUST WORK!? ZOMG!
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Click to collapse
Look, I can tell you think you are about the smartest guy on the planet, and perhaps you are. However, you are showing your oversensitivity to my comment about the twitterization of our culture 's attention span. I stand by that. "Too much to read" was you preface... That stung you. You didn't like that. So you wanted to slam. I understand that. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings implying you had an impatiently short attention span.
If you DO happen to read this whole post, consider the following:
Here is a snapshot of your search results that allegedly answer the central question of this thread:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
The presence of search results on Google does not equal the opinions of XDA-dev members.
My thread question: Would HTC ever make a Phone for WebOS, now that Palm bought by HP? I think has relevance because there has been quite a lot of discussion since February and the preview of WP7 that HTC might not be so interested in making phones for WP7 given they would be, supposedly, prohibited from including any of the HTC SenseUI interface features they have been developing and improving over the years, from TouchFlo on WM to Sense on Android. Thus, if they were to be removed from the WP7 lineup, my question, sparked by the acquisition of palm by HP, was whether HTC might ever be asked to make phones for the webOS platform. It seems to me to be an interesting question to ask a forum founded around a company that started the touchscreen phone industry.
That is why there is such robust opinion on the 324 posts here on this thread thread WP7 is complete FAIL ... far more depth and insight than could be found by sequential readings from this for example:
The problem is: algorithms still do not replace humans, and much as I find your style of communication annoying, I would probably grow tired, on a desert island, of talking to an algorithm after a while and mush prefer talking to you than to it... much like Man in white and man in black on LOST.
But trust me I get it, you'd much rather be deemed right and thew winner than have a thoughtful speculation about the ripple effects of webOS being kept alive by HP's purchase of Palm. I'm really happy to hear of it. Palm threw a Hail Mary pass with their ground-up webOS and new Pre -- and it was really well reviewed, well- received, and to this day there is considerable praise for webOS. That it was about to die with palm's imminent death would have been too bad.
It will be interesting to see if Microsoft's Hail Mary pass can resuscitate its once dominant mobile platform.
General
Anything that involves all of the phones and doesn't fit in any of the other fora.
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(3) Phone Manufacturers who design phones for Blackberry:
?? (I don't know this market at all, but am curious)
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I know BlackBerry is owned by RIM. I think they actually manufacture it and distribute it.
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But will Blackberry have and be a touchscreen OS, or a platform Blackberry builds off of, or will it be phased out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BlackBerry has a touchscreen OS. The BlackBerry Storm? Hello? BlackBerry is here to stay. It is very useful for office phones. My fathers work actually distributes those now instead of beepers. When you need a phone for nothing but e-mail and scheduling and nothing else - BlackBerrys are the best. Who knows about touchscreen as their not really trying to apply to teenagers and fashion freaks. They're trying to make a phone that's good for business - and their doing a very good job.
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(4) Phone Manufacturers who make phones currently for Palm (the Pre, Pixie)
?? again, i just don't know, have never followed this
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Pal, Inc. is the manufacturer of the Palm Pixi.
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I was never here to help? You just got pissy because I simply pointed out that you refused to search, instead you depended on everyone else.
I ask too many questions, I'll admit that. But my two main ones remain unaswered, not even close. (still, why can't people take 10 minutes occasionally for some big picture thinking, why is everything reduced down to twitter chatter?
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There's where you insulted. If you didn't mean that as an insult, it certainly came off as one. However, as I don't use twitter, other than keeping up with companies, news, etc.; I wouldn't know about this twitter talk. I could possibly be wrong.
You called me out on nothing.
I'm sorry, but your topic question is is very bold letters on wikipedia. Pal, Inc. is the manufacturer of the Palm Pixi. Almost every question you have related to who makes what is easiest thing to find on Google.
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Click to collapse
That's the most "offensive" thing I could have said. Your response was:
Okay then, fine. That's the literal side of XDA that i find so unrefreshing. On the other hand, there are thousands to compensate for your snide attitude who recognize the underlying question is about impact of HP buying Palm and what ripple effects we might see.
Let me google that:
"ripple effects we might see due to HP buying Palm"
I'm sure it'll be fascinating, but in any event probably a lot more interesting than anything you've added here.
Chastising and pulling the old "use search" rubric is quite boring and indicative of a tunnelvision mind. But thanks for an answer at least.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To which I said:
And that's what 90% of people at XDA find so unrefreshing. You ask a question (one very simple to answer) without trying to find it out yourself. Then you post a thread and when people respond with ideas, you INSULT THEM for not knowing! THEN, when we help for future reference, you INSULT?! You actually expect us to help you? Next time I see you, I'll be sure to kick you in the nuts and demand you take me out to dinner.
It's not like I even had to dig through Google!
http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=&sour...c7fb41710deb10
Very, very simple search with 10 results right there. Don't insult me because you're lazy or just that stupid.
edit: To your ripple effect remark:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...=&oq=&gs_rfai=
DID THAT JUST WORK!? ZOMG!
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Click to collapse
Now can you follow the conversation? You called me out on what where? I got angry where? I simple stated facts, and even got a humorous laugh out of this.
Here is a snapshot of your search results that allegedly answer the central question of this thread:
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http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sale-of-palm-looking-tougher-2010-04-29
^^ Also taken from my search results.
In a conference call with analysts, Bradley called H-P's $1.2 billion deal to buy Palm a "transformational deal." He noted the company's similar Silicon Valley backgrounds, and promised that H-P will invest "heavily" in Palm, and plans to expand the company's webOS into other devices beyond smartphones. He also said Jon Rubinstein, the CEO of Palm, plans to stay on. See H-P-Palm news story.
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http://gizmodo.com/5526620/hp-buys-palm-how-it-changes-everything
^^ Taken from my search results. Clearly covers your ripple effects.
Ohhh this one's a long one....
Worst Case Scenario
The real challenge might come in reconciling the brand personalities. Palm's products, regardless of how well they've sold, have always been innovative—the Pre was a breath of fresh air when it was released. HP, on the other hand, has tended to paint in broad beige strokes. And their products that do stand out, like the Envy laptop, have come across as derivative. There's also the unfortunate case of iPaq—another HP acquisition that was left to rot.
So will Palm fuel HP's creative capabilities? Or will HP stifle the ingenuity that's made Palm worth buying in the first place?
Best Case Scenario
HP has the resources to fully leverage Palm's software and hardware, and not just on smartphones. And while Palm's problem was never that it couldn't keep up with demand, its main issue—generating demand in the first place—is no longer a problem with HP's reach and marketing budget. HP's made a significant investment thus far in their TouchSmart interface, and while it's a fine skin it can only stand to gain from webOS insights. Can you say webOS tablet?
What May Happen
As for when we'll actually start seeing webOS in HP products, HP's being mum. It's reasonable to expect we won't hear anything more official until the transaction is complete, but there are some very clear paths they can (and probably will) take:
• Phones—Whither the iPaq? Ha, who cares! It's doubtful that HP would spend this kind of money on an established brand like Palm just to murder it in service of a flimsy brand like iPaq. HP's phone line has always been undistinguished, so for them to buy Palm is effectively to install a pre-made, well-regarded mobile division into their company. So, what does this mean in terms of actual phones?
There will probably be another generation of webOS phones. Yesterday, I wouldn't have felt certain about this; today, it's a good bet. Palm was living and dying by the Pre and Pixi, which were first-gen products running a first-gen operating system. HP's massive resources will give the OS the kind of time it needs to spread its wings on time-appropriate hardware. Imagine a webOS phone with WVGA resolution; with a Snapdragon processor; with a genuinely responsive interface. That's what we're talking about here. Forget the Pre Plus—it's time to start waiting for the Pre II.
The only awkward point here is that HP is an official partner with Microsoft for Windows Phone 7. They've committed to continue working with Windows Phone 7, although one might imagine that their interest in Microsoft's platform diminishes significantly now that they've got their own in-house mobile operating system.
• Computers—With this purchase comes a wealth of intellectual property (patents) spanning decades, much of which concerns touch interfaces. HP has been very, very aggressive in developing touch interfaces for Windows machines with its TouchSmart line, and could easily incorporate some of Palm's mobile tricks into its software. By and large, though, HP's expansive computer lineup will remain unchanged.
• Tablets—HP's tablet strategy is heading in a dangerous direction. The anticipated HP Slate runs Windows 7, a desktop OS, while much of the rest of the industry seems to have opted for mobile OSes. HP hasn't shown a ton of interest in Android in the past, and their tablet plans have so far ignored Google's OS—the presumed competitors to the iPad's iPhone-based OS. Which brings me to what is quite possibly the most exciting possibility here: The webOS tablet.
No, seriously—think about it. WebOS has a more intuitive interface than Android, and better notification system than anyone else, and prodigious social networking abilities. It has a fair amount of apps. It's compatible with the same mobile hardware that's powering many of the first wave of Android tablets. This—this—would be awesome.
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Now, do you really want to continue this flaming me for helping you? o.o
Sorry, I believe this deserves its own post:
But trust me I get it, you'd much rather be deemed right and thew winner than have a thoughtful speculation about the ripple effects of webOS being kept alive by HP's purchase of Palm. I'm really happy to hear of it. Palm threw a Hail Mary pass with their ground-up webOS and new Pre -- and it was really well reviewed, well- received, and to this day there is considerable praise for webOS. That it was about to die with palm's imminent death would have been too bad.
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H-P will invest "heavily" in Palm, and plans to expand the company's webOS into other devices beyond smartphones
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I hear an apology?
Oh, NO HTC will NOT be developing a phone with webos anytime soon. They may try, but that all ends up in HPs hands. If they're smart, and can keep webos on the right track, then no, don't expect to see it on an HTC phone anytime soon.
r3s-rt said:
Now, do you really want to continue this flaming me for helping you? o.o
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Not flaming. But I will take issue with you because you are so heavily invested in being right, so much so that while you place your microscope upon certain pixels that excite you, you ignore, or just don't consider my question worthy of consideration.. which is your right, but why do you have to pollute my thread and take it totally off-topic -- to prove your prowess?
What is wrong with you.
The presence of search results on Google does not equal the opinions of XDA-dev members.
My thread question: Would HTC ever make a Phone for WebOS, now that Palm bought by HP? I think has relevance because there has been quite a lot of discussion since February and the preview of WP7 that HTC might not be so interested in making phones for WP7 given they would be, supposedly, prohibited from including any of the HTC SenseUI interface features they have been developing and improving over the years, from TouchFlo on WM to Sense on Android. Thus, if they were to be removed from the WP7 lineup, my question, sparked by the acquisition of palm by HP, was whether HTC might ever be asked to make phones for the webOS platform. It seems to me to be an interesting question to ask a forum founded around a company that started the touchscreen phone industry.
That is why there is such robust opinion on the 324 posts here on this thread thread WP7 is complete FAIL ... far more depth and insight than could be found by sequential readings from this for example:
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Click to collapse
The quoted part above is what I care about. Not someone's story. Not someone's search results. That's not why Im part of XDA... As the Windows Phone 7 example should have amply shown... but again, pixels that didn't allow you to score. Such a tempest in a teapot.
quicksite said:
Not flaming. But I will take issue with you because you are so heavily invested in being right, so much so that while you place your microscope upon certain pixels that excite you, you ignore, or just don't consider my question worthy of consideration.. which is your right, but why do you have to pollute my thread and take it totally off-topic -- to prove your prowess?
What is wrong with you.
The quoted part above is what I care about. Not someone's story. Not someone's search results. That's not why Im part of XDA... As the Windows Phone 7 example should have amply shown... but again, pixels that didn't allow you to score. Such a tempest in a teapot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please, read my last post then come up with an actual response. No more insults. You are just determined for me to insult you, aren't you?
Related
http://vhxn.wordpress.com/2008/12/14/microsoft-releases-seadragon-for-iphone-before-windows-mobile/
Microsoft.
With that we can get an idea of how much microsoft cares about it`s platform
belabartok said:
With that we can get an idea of how much microsoft cares about it`s platform
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, it's something we've all sort of known for a long time though, windows mobile development is being left almost entirely in the hands of third parties.
defroster said:
Yep, it's something we've all sort of known for a long time though, windows mobile development is being left almost entirely in the hands of third parties.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is a good thing!
Imagine for a second that Microsoft would deal with its own platform as Apple does with theirs! I appreciate that 3rd party developers can freely program and develop and offer their software without having to wait until the os developer or manufacturer decides to make it available to their users through their store platform.
Nether-the-less, you guys really get the wrong ideas about Microsoft and their marketing strategies. MS releasing something for Apple devices before even released for Windows devices does not mean that they don't care about their own platform but rather that they are quite business smart! Apple might not have had interest in this if it would have been released already for WM; in addition, MS gets a food in the door step of Apple ... just widen your imagination and you will realize that the reasons for this are obviously not the one's suggested in the above posts!
the iphone is eating into the marketshare of everybody, not only WM... probably WM is hurth the least, look at nokia's differences since the release of the iphone.
i think posting this is a bit counter productive
jayjay8585 said:
i think posting this is a bit counter productive
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Click to collapse
I'm not sure how productive your post was.
But it's a simple fact and it's worth discussing I think.
Ok guys i think i will sell my hermes then im not staying with ms no more if he is going to give iphone apps before his own platform whats up with this ****hole of a company.
defroster said:
I'm not sure how productive your post was.
But it's a simple fact and it's worth discussing I think.
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Click to collapse
it wasnt productive but i think posting it in that manner is like wearing the end is nigh sandwich boards
im pee'd off too but i think we should always se ms winmo as the best
jayjay8585 said:
it wasnt productive but i think posting it in that manner is like wearing the end is nigh sandwich boards
im pee'd off too but i think we should always se ms winmo as the best
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Click to collapse
that's just being a fanboy. if they can't be bothered making a respectable product why should we not move to apple, android, symbian or whatever? These are just tools and MS has counted on it's market share carrying it for too long, not just with mobile os's.
im not saying we cant move i just think posting threads sataing winmo is dying is bit of a drag on a forum that do a lot for this os
but still i reckon it is a good talking point titles daunting thats all
its seems a bit more impartial now
did you see the article on apple being ahead in sales of all winmo phones that mega insane thats not long after i heard iphone users are a niche market
Topic modified to be less daunting.
Mark Twain said "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated". The lesson was success at the top can be isolating. MS was the only game in town for a long time, they are a huge company, and they seem to have a difficult time reacting swiftly. With that being said, I wouldn't count them out just yet. They've had Office for Mac for ages, but nobody said it must mean they're abandoning the Windows platform. They've created an app (and probably more to come) for the iPhone because it makes good business sense. The iPhone is a hot product -- why not jump on? With that being said, both my wife and son have iPhones and I think it's just a toy -- aimed at the masses who want to play rather than work.
I've had a Fuze since November 10 (moved from a Moto Q), added a significant number of tweaks (most from here) and am absolutely satisfied with this device. It does exactly what I want it to do and allows me to travel without lugging a laptop. So the bottom line, at least for me, is that I wouldn't start stocking up on beer for WinMo's wake just yet -- or at any time in the future.
emesbe said:
Mark Twain said "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated". The lesson was success at the top can be isolating. MS was the only game in town for a long time, they are a huge company, and they seem to have a difficult time reacting swiftly. With that being said, I wouldn't count them out just yet. They've had Office for Mac for ages, but nobody said it must mean they're abandoning the Windows platform. They've created an app (and probably more to come) for the iPhone because it makes good business sense. The iPhone is a hot product -- why not jump on? With that being said, both my wife and son have iPhones and I think it's just a toy -- aimed at the masses who want to play rather than work.
I've had a Fuze since November 10 (moved from a Moto Q), added a significant number of tweaks (most from here) and am absolutely satisfied with this device. It does exactly what I want it to do and allows me to travel without lugging a laptop. So the bottom line, at least for me, is that I wouldn't start stocking up on beer for WinMo's wake just yet -- or at any time in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well said i also believe that the iphone is a toy and not for professional use
emesbe said:
Mark Twain said "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated". The lesson was success at the top can be isolating. MS was the only game in town for a long time, they are a huge company, and they seem to have a difficult time reacting swiftly. With that being said, I wouldn't count them out just yet. They've had Office for Mac for ages, but nobody said it must mean they're abandoning the Windows platform. They've created an app (and probably more to come) for the iPhone because it makes good business sense. The iPhone is a hot product -- why not jump on? With that being said, both my wife and son have iPhones and I think it's just a toy -- aimed at the masses who want to play rather than work.
I've had a Fuze since November 10 (moved from a Moto Q), added a significant number of tweaks (most from here) and am absolutely satisfied with this device. It does exactly what I want it to do and allows me to travel without lugging a laptop. So the bottom line, at least for me, is that I wouldn't start stocking up on beer for WinMo's wake just yet -- or at any time in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft had Office for Mac before they had Office for Windows..
ilovethisplace said:
Microsoft had Office for Mac before they had Office for Windows..
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Click to collapse
I think they do this to prove they're not an evil empire hellbent at becoming a monopoly. But all us MS users hate it...and should.
For the hell of it, that Seadragon app is some cool stuff. Can't wait to see how it looks on my Tilt.
nuke1 said:
I think they do this to prove they're not an evil empire hellbent at becoming a monopoly. But all us MS users hate it...and should.
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Click to collapse
So when the hell do we get the Apple goodies for WM?
Reason for my question? This: http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/22/htc-adopting-android-on-50-of-its-handsets-in-2010/
Going to quite a few iPhone topics here (and made one myself), I know that a lot of you guys here seem to love WinMo (at least more than OSX), so seeing this piece of news was kind of interesting.
As we all know and as the article reiterates, the vast majority of current HTC phones are WinMo-based. The rumor is that it's eventually going to go down to 50%-based with the other 50% being Android. Of course, it's a rumor, but the articles states that HTC is already on the way to being 30% Android-based, so how unlikely is it really?
Now let me go a bit further: As it is, HTC is currently 90% WinMo-based. With the speed at which they seem to be moving (2% to 50% Android-based in one year?), who is to say they won't eventually be 90% Android-based? If this does happen, though, as we see now, XDA could easily simply add the Android-based phones with little issue. On the other hand, as we also see now with Android-based phones, the design may become more limited instead of the numerous designs available for WinMo-based phones.
But...would you guys continue to purchase HTC phones? Is your love of HTC phones all dependent upon the support of XDA-developers or can you simply not switch from WinMo?
Personally, I am pretty OS independent. I can work with any phone. However, if I do have to switch from WinMo, then I would prefer to switch to either iPhone (yeah, yeah, I know) or the Palm Pre (WebOS' increasing popularity and great usability). As it is, I'm not very interested in Android, and Google...has done/say a few things in the past to make me doubt if they'll give proper support to Android. So personally, if HTC does switch to being almost completely Android-based, then truthfully, I probably would not continue purchasing HTC.
ofcourse.
however, i am not "loyal" to any OS or company. whoever makes the best device that suits my needs gets the money.
Well
They would increase their Android models but WM will still be there, so it´s just another option to stay with HTC
Personally I think Android can be good in the future, when they achieve a more mature and solid OS, meantime I´m with WM and of course HTC
crazy talk said:
ofcourse.
however, i am not "loyal" to any OS or company. whoever makes the best device that suits my needs gets the money.
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Click to collapse
Well, I wasn't referring to company/OS loyalty; my apology if I gave that impression. What I really meant was a question of how much one likes using Windows Mobile vs how much one likes XDA support.
As I said, I'm presuming there's a certain number of people here who likes WinMo, so I'm trying to gauge how many people would stick with HTC in the case of such a large move. From your post, I'm assuming you'll go with the best device regardless of OS or XDA support, though?
orb3000 said:
They would increase their Android models but WM will still be there, so it´s just another option to stay with HTC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but I'm guessing one's choices may also become a bit more limited if HTC's Android support increases even further. Look at HTC's list of Android-based phones now. If you happen to not like any of the *three* choices, whether it be due to design, specs, or whatever other reason, then you're pretty much out of luck, aren't you?
On the other hand, if you don't like one HTC WinMo-based phone, you literally have a dozen other choices in various designs and specs to fit your desire.
My Understanding is that MS doesn’t work and listen well with the manufacturer. There are many complains on current WinMo capabilities and how time consuming it is to write application for it. Furthermore complains also go in to the development speed of the WM7 which no one knows anything about it. Therefore some HTC press release could be aiming of putting serious pressure to MS. Furthermore been only on WinMo leads HTC very depended on MS. I believe that is very important point by certain negotiations between HTC and MS.
Therefore it is only understandable that HTC starting put more weight on a second pillar. Besides developing own OS the Android is the best option for HTC for shaping and driving an Operation Platform for their Devices.
Anyhow that Large Companies like HTC, Samsung and some others paying serious attention to Android indicating very bright future for Android. It is most likely now that those companies will speed up the process growing young OS to maturate. WinMo and MS is really under pressure now, if Wm7 doesn’t bring the expected wowww change then it will no other way then to say... Good bye WinMo
Not sure if I really need another OS in the mix. I wouldn't mind a device that can do both Android and WinMo but only Android ... probably not. Then I might as well make the jump to the iPhone.
I certainly wouldn't rule out Android. As somebody who uses a lot of Google's webservices, Android has a definite appeal. There's a few WM-specific apps I'd miss, but the app ecosystem for Android will only improve as time goes one.
However, I've been pretty darn happy with Microsoft's direction lately (Win 7, Zune, and the Xbox 360 are all great products). I wouldn't buy another WM6 device, but I'm definitely going to be following WM7 closely.
I still think HTC has some of the best ID guys in the business (aesthetically I prefer the TD2 and TP2 to anything on the market) and they're very talented and making software tweaks, but they really need to raise the bar for hardware specs and quality if they want me to keep buying HTC devices, regardless of the OS.
edit: And agreeing with coolVariable, I'd love a device that could easily be configured to run either natively. That would be an instant sale from me. I have a feeling MS's licensing wouldn't make it easy, though.
I'd switch in a heartbeat to anything different from HTC/WinMo as long as it's available on my Sprint SERO plan.
Bulldog said:
My Understanding is that MS doesn’t work and listen well with the manufacturer. There are many complains on current WinMo capabilities and how time consuming it is to write application for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, if this is the case, it may explain partly why HTC is betting so much on Android so suddenly. To be honest, if it is the case, I wouldn't be surprised either. I've seen similar techniques employed by other companies in other industries recently too.
Still, corporate shenanigans or not, 50% still seems like a massive shift to me, but I'm guessing the plan might change if their 2009 30% path becomes bumpy.
coolVariable said:
Not sure if I really need another OS in the mix. I wouldn't mind a device that can do both Android and WinMo but only Android ... probably not. Then I might as well make the jump to the iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both Android and WinMo? You mean sort of a dual boot deal or simply a device that can install either Android or WinMo roms? That would be fantastic; I think we can all agree on that. I think we can all agree too that it's unlikely.
8525Smart said:
True, but I'm guessing one's choices may also become a bit more limited if HTC's Android support increases even further. Look at HTC's list of Android-based phones now. If you happen to not like any of the *three* choices, whether it be due to design, specs, or whatever other reason, then you're pretty much out of luck, aren't you?
On the other hand, if you don't like one HTC WinMo-based phone, you literally have a dozen other choices in various designs and specs to fit your desire.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don´t think so, there are so many models with WM to choose from, and there will be more coming.
The actual number of Andorid models is low, and as you said, it will increase, but that is good so more options will be available.
As I said, I´ll stick to HTC WM models, at least in following 2 years...Then we can see what is Android doing and perhaps I can consider...
Great thread!
I think I will continue buying HTC phones even if there was a large Android base, even more than 50%. I like Android and all, and maybe in the future I may even take one myself, but WM is so customizable and i have it just the way i like it and wouldnt change it for anything (except for a newer more powerful device maybe tegra/snapdragon which im holding out for)
I have to give credit where credit is due: if it wasn't for this site, my tp may have been my first and last winmo phone. I wouldnt have the functionality and great experience that i do now without the help of the folks here.
BTW, I think this thread would benefit greatly from a poll, as many dont have the time to post, but everyone has time to vote.
orb3000 said:
I don´t think so, there are so many models with WM to choose from, and there will be more coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, currently, but if HTC does shift to majority Android-based phones, then the number of WinMo-based models will inevitably go down (in favor of Android-based models instead), which will then result in a lack of choices.
Nonetheless, I do agree with you. If Android eventually shows more promise, I would reconsider too, but at this point, I still prefer to switch to OSX/WebOS if I have to leave WinMo.
euphoria47 said:
BTW, I think this thread would benefit greatly from a poll, as many dont have the time to post, but everyone has time to vote.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, you're right. I don't know how I missed that simple bit of fact. Unfortunately, I think it's a bit late for me to make a poll now.
P.S. Thank you for the compliment.
8525Smart said:
Well, I wasn't referring to company/OS loyalty; my apology if I gave that impression. What I really meant was a question of how much one likes using Windows Mobile vs how much one likes XDA support.
As I said, I'm presuming there's a certain number of people here who likes WinMo, so I'm trying to gauge how many people would stick with HTC in the case of such a large move. From your post, I'm assuming you'll go with the best device regardless of OS or XDA support, though?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i knew what you were asking. and you are correct. i'll go with the best device regardless of OS or XDA support right now.
i mean, right now im using an IPhone because it was the best for me at the time. and now i want to switch to the Tp2. saying "i won't buy XXXX device because it is made by XXXX company and runs XXXX Operating system severely limits choices.
Why of course!!!!
http://www.gsmarena.com/microsoft_a...windows_phone_7_series_platform-news-1456.php
It is still slow to respond to commands. Looks nothing more than a facelift.
Microsoft killed itself with this ****....
I mean, who would ever want this? It's completely illogical, Applish, slow and stupid.I think, that me and most of the people will stick to 6.5 ...
Actually, it looks VERY GOOD for me
No, I won't be probably using it since day one, but I'll consider it when there will be serious phones with it (HW keyboard, huge display like 4") and many software for it (different keyboards, I'm using swype few days and it's awesome).
All MS should have done like year ago was remake memory management of CE OS 5.2 (f.ck those SLOTs and use desktop-Windows-like mm), some other improvements and compile it against armv6 and force Qualcomm to give HTC drivers for 3D and 2D and this all stuff for low cost. Everything would work just like now, with thousand of apps, but faster and faster and faster and BETTER.
And then integrate HTC Sense on system-level, also many apps and cooperate with HTC on those UI and apps, not like now that MS does core and speaks with HTC only about core and UI is just only in hands of HTC.
donniesd said:
It is still slow to respond to commands. Looks nothing more than a facelift.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's looks completely different, from the 6.5. It also behaves differently. It looks so responsive and quick. Don't know what to think about it's features. So far I like it, but I want to know more about Customization and Multitasking. I'll Wait until MIX10 to give my final judgment.
I am looking forward to it.
I think Microsoft should do this:
1) Make Windows Mobile 6.5 be the OS for geeks looking for complexity.
2) Make Windows Phone 7 Series be the OS for minimalists looking for simplicity.
3) Finally, they should release a mobile OS for geeks looking for complexity but just a revamped look (other than doing stuff like making buttons finger-friendly, there really is no way to make something simple complex, and something complex simple).
What do we know from this vid?
That it's something I will never buy ?
What do we know from this Vid ?
We know that it is a promotional video from M$. And that the finished product will more than likely be much different from this when it hits the street in 4Q.
And we know that looking at this video tells us nothing about how it will act on our phones or the phones we are about to buy.
Didn't we go through all this speculation when WM 6 was previewed ? And WM 6.1 and 6.5 and now we have to go through another 8 months of speculation over WP 7 ?
Why can't they just do an Apple ? Announce it 9:00 am Tues, and have the Upgrade online at 9:01
poetryrocksalot said:
The Microsoft Phone 7 Series ... What do we know from this vid?
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Click to collapse
Oh, that's simple.
1. Taller phones - what a selling point! "Ours are narrower" -- "or Taller " -- either way, they're "what you want more of"
2. Nothing here that is not currently done on Android phones with their amazing array of widgets and real time integration of information.
3. Nothing that Motoblur doesn't already offer on its CLIQ Android phone.
Unless you mean by What do we know from this vid? that MS has hired some better ad-makers than before.
This must be what you're getting at, right... vs the revolutionary new operating system -- available at end of year -- by that time who knows what iPhone 4.0 series has, nor where Android is in those # of months.
Seems to me one of the last selling points for WM -- and a point I keep arguing against as being a conditioned mirage, and no longer a reality -- is its easy integration with business enterprise systems, thus making it a better choice for IT departments outfitting a sales force with mobile satellite offices.
Yet all I see is consumer coolness "I am off to the gym now" --- wow, even twitter users know that people use twitter for more relevant things now than the original "what are you doing right now".
They will not fall on their faces, they have too much desktop market share to do that, and there's a significant amount of brand loyalty that comes with that, as well as customer ignorance (as in "i don't understand about a lot of this new stuff, but at least if my desktop is Windows, and my phone is windows, i know everything will work") ... But is that a high enough measure of success to beat Android? --- "to not fall on their faces"?
quicksite said:
Oh, that's simple.
1. Taller phones - what a selling point! "Ours are narrower" -- "or Taller " -- either way, they're "what you want more of"
2. Nothing here that is not currently done on Android phones with their amazing array of widgets and real time integration of information.
3. Nothing that Motoblur doesn't already offer on its CLIQ Android phone.
Unless you mean by What do we know from this vid? that MS has hired some better ad-makers than before.
This must be what you're getting at, right... vs the revolutionary new operating system -- available at end of year -- by that time who knows what iPhone 4.0 series has, nor where Android is in those # of months.
Seems to me one of the last selling points for WM -- and a point I keep arguing against as being a conditioned mirage, and no longer a reality -- is its easy integration with business enterprise systems, thus making it a better choice for IT departments outfitting a sales force with mobile satellite offices.
Yet all I see is consumer coolness "I am off to the gym now" --- wow, even twitter users know that people use twitter for more relevant things now than the original "what are you doing right now".
They will not fall on their faces, they have too much desktop market share to do that, and there's a significant amount of brand loyalty that comes with that, as well as customer ignorance (as in "i don't understand about a lot of this new stuff, but at least if my desktop is Windows, and my phone is windows, i know everything will work") ... But is that a high enough measure of success to beat Android? --- "to not fall on their faces"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) You mean longer screens due to the wVGA minimum requirement?
love it. windows mobile 7
Out of curiosity, will the XDA-Developers community work with the iPhone? While it isn't part of the HTC family, it now has Android, and still needs drivers. This just seems like the kind of thing that the community here would do.
Every thing on it´s place
I don´t think this will ever happen.
Respectfully I wouldn´t want to see that here...
It has now Android as HTC started manufacturing those
Microsoft and Apple can't be combined.
It's just impossible.
And, as Orb3000 says, I wouldn't want to see that here.
It will never happen.
[ElCondor] said:
Microsoft and Apple can't be combined.
It's just impossible.
And, as Orb3000 says, I wouldn't want to see that here.
It will never happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that both companies seem to be going down the same path with their phone OS's, and there is already a Windows Phone 7 subsection here.
But as long as this place covers only HTC phones, or until HTC starts making iPhones (a great day that would be), should probably stick with Android and WinMo.
MooGoo said:
until HTC starts making iPhones (a great day that would be), should probably stick with Android and WinMo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
to be honest, i hope that's not going to happen
hard to imagine xda devs turns into a phone games community
and if that ever happens (i know it wont ) just try to imagine how many dumb i phone users will be spamming the board with all their idiotic questions
I hope, for both your sakes, that Windows Phone 7 crashes and burns.
MooGoo said:
Except that both companies seem to be going down the same path with their phone OS's, and there is already a Windows Phone 7 subsection here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is no argument at all. Why are they going 'down' the same path? They're totally different companies, there is absolutely no similarity.
--> http://iphone-developers.com/
[ElCondor] said:
This is no argument at all. Why are they going 'down' the same path? They're totally different companies, there is absolutely no similarity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kind of like how Intel and AMD are totally different companies?
Of course there is some similarity in that they both produce proprietary operating systems for computers and phones.
Some people here seem to be fretting about the possibility of a torrent of iPhone users flooding the forums with noobish questions if xda-devs started to work on iPhone OS; my point was that this is very likely to happen with Windows Phone 7 when it is released, and there seems to be no debate here on whether to support that OS or not.
I said "same path" because both OS's are locked down consumer oriented platforms, as opposed to the relatively open and business oriented nature of WinMo. Of course only time will tell how similar these OS's turn out to be...
But I do agree with you that the iPhone should not be dealt with here, since the iPhone is not made by HTC, and since iPhone hacking is already covered more than sufficiently elsewhere.
OK you're right, I take my words back that there's no similarity.
But windows is mostly software based (apart from xbox and Zune), while Apple makes various hardware components. It really is a totally different company.
I really like WP7, I recognise that it has some missing features but I am confident the se will be addressed with time. My concern is that anybody considering WP7 who reads this forum (or a plethora of other websites) could be easily put off by the negativity displayed by:-
1) Android/ IOS trolls
2) Disenchanted WM6.5 users who still want to spend their lives tweaking and cooking
Roms
3) People with an irrational fear of "the cloud".
4) Journalists who are desperate for MS to fail (because they are not Apple or Google
and thus not trendy!)
My question is, what can those of us who have faith in the platform do to balance the arguments a bit? I'm not talking about fanboism, I'm talking about expounding the positive features of WP7 like one note, like cloud sync, like the people hub, like the fast browser, like XBox integration for gamers (even though I do not use that much), like the easy access camera, like Zune and Zune Pass, like the fluid interface, like 25Gb of FREE Skydrive etc.
For example, I have a 16Gb HD7 with 25Gb skydrive means that to me I have a 41Gb device - more than my Ipad (see, I am platform agnostic).
If those of us who like WP7 do not actively support it, it will go the way of WebOS no matter how much Microsoft spend on their marketing budget.
WP7 is a revolution, let's get revolutionary about it!!!!
adesonic said:
I really like WP7, I recognise that it has some missing features but I am confident the se will be addressed with time. My concern is that anybody considering WP7 who reads this forum (or a plethora of other websites) could be easily put off by the negativity displayed by:-
1) Android/ IOS trolls
2) Disenchanted WM6.5 users who still want to spend their lives tweaking and cooking
Roms
3) People with an irrational fear of "the cloud".
4) Journalists who are desperate for MS to fail (because they are not Apple or Google
and thus not trendy!)
My question is, what can those of us who have faith in the platform do to balance the arguments a bit? I'm not talking about fanboism, I'm talking about expounding the positive features of WP7 like one note, like cloud sync, like the people hub, like the fast browser, like XBox integration for gamers (even though I do not use that much), like the easy access camera, like Zune and Zune Pass, like the fluid interface, like 25Gb of FREE Skydrive etc.
For example, I have a 16Gb HD7 with 25Gb skydrive means that to me I have a 41Gb device - more than my Ipad (see, I am platform agnostic).
If those of us who like WP7 do not actively support it, it will go the way of WebOS no matter how much Microsoft spend on their marketing budget.
WP7 is a revolution, let's get revolutionary about it!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with ya, WP7 brother. I try to do my part by telling it like it is, being the highest quality mobile OS yet released, but who knows if it is having fruitful effect.
I'm with you too
It may be missing some features but just by looking at it, you can see that once Microsoft does implement the missing features it will look a lot better than Android's.
It's the first OS that's actually impressed me ever since iPhone came out.
I liked Android but it felt unfinished and I felt that buying one was not a good investment, since by the next year they would stop handing out updates for it and they would release a device frequently.
Hell yeah! Let's do this thing!
you want to know the best way to promote windows phone? allow people to use it. i've shown my phone to virtually all my friends, and they all really like it. though they didn't use it for very long, they liked the capabilities of the OS in terms of smoothness, visual appearance, and functionality (well with what they played with).
i think we really just need to see MS continue to better the platform both on the phone side, but also on the developer side. they need to get the SDKs for all the hardware out asap, and then work on more SDKs that will bring features not yet on the market by any other maker. what could this be? who knows... but MS has enough in their coffers to find out, as well as enough R&D going on.
The Gate Keeper said:
you want to know the best way to promote windows phone? allow people to use it. i've shown my phone to virtually all my friends, and they all really like it. though they didn't use it for very long, they liked the capabilities of the OS in terms of smoothness, visual appearance, and functionality (well with what they played with).
i think we really just need to see MS continue to better the platform both on the phone side, but also on the developer side. they need to get the SDKs for all the hardware out asap, and then work on more SDKs that will bring features not yet on the market by any other maker. what could this be? who knows... but MS has enough in their coffers to find out, as well as enough R&D going on.
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Click to collapse
^this! I've already had one person wish they hadn't got a desire - let's keep this up!
You know what Microsoft need though right? A huge pr stunt in the US, UK, France, Germany etc. Just to catch the headlines and make sure that good things are said
+1. I'm very glad to have gotten this phone and once the first update is out I'll be even happier. All my friends who have been on the fence about a new phone have heard from me!
For me the WP7 is perfect in the sense that I am done with the whole power user/modding thing. I used to have a TP2 and tried a lot of ROMs but in the end I just wanted a phone that did two things i.e fluid and give me exactly the information I needed at a glance so I could get on with my life rather than tinker with it all the damn time. And this is where the WP7 serves me very well.
I see a lot of 6.5 users whining here but I truly wish they had done a bit of reading on the WP7 platform so they would know that the WP7 is going to be nothing like the 6.5 and I truly hope it never will be because MS will permanently lose me to android. I'm glad I gave WP7 a chance after reading up on it even though I had washed my hands off the WM platform after the 6.5 nightmare.
Probably the biggest reason I'm enjoying the WP7 is because I knew fully well before buying the phone what features to expect and what it won't have out of the box so that saved me the headache of buying first and then whining about it in these forums. I mean what part of 1.0 don't you understand? Personally I think the 6.5 fan boys are even worse than android fan boys. For me the 6.5 offers quantity over quality and I guess some people are fine with that but not me and that's why I chose WP7.
f1restarter said:
I see a lot of 6.5 users whining here but I truly wish they had done a bit of reading on the WP7 platform so they would know that the WP7 is going to be nothing like the 6.5 and I truly hope it never will be because MS will permanently lose me to android. I'm glad I gave WP7 a chance after reading up on it even though I had washed my hands off the WM platform after the 6.5 nightmare.
Probably the biggest reason I'm enjoying the WP7 is because I knew fully well before buying the phone what features to expect and what it won't have out of the box so that saved me the headache of buying first and then whining about it in these forums. I mean what part of 1.0 don't you understand? Personally I think the 6.5 fan boys are even worse than android fan boys. For me the 6.5 offers quantity over quality and I guess some people are fine with that but not me and that's why I chose WP7.
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Mm, the 6.5 people are really starting to piss me off. They seem to think that WP7 is a sequel to WM6.5 - which it quite obviously isn't. Microsoft are quite obviously trying to forget WM, as it was, and still is, total rubbish. At least the Android guys actually have a semi-decent OS to whine about :/
It Will Get Better.
adesonic you have my support ,just wait for the updates and be happy.
I agree with everything said. Winmo users hate it because they can't tweak it (though it doesn't need tweaks so you can actually use the phone instead of always trying to fix it).
Android users are complaining about how "closed" it is. I think android is the one that needs to worry. Android has climbed quickly due to it's "open" nature, which means its on more devices than any other OS. The problem being is that most of those devices are pure crap. There is definitely not an across the board experience on android. Hell, some devices are still on 1.5/1.6 of android. Fragmentation has exploded at a much higher rate than on winmo, which has started to lead to developer frustration because their apps don't run smoothly on all phones.
I see the really dedicated tweakers heading over to android, and people that only tweaked to make their phone run properly to switch to wp7. It will be a better overall OS in the next year than android.
f1restarter said:
For me the WP7 is perfect in the sense that I am done with the whole power user/modding thing. I used to have a TP2 and tried a lot of ROMs but in the end I just wanted a phone that did two things i.e fluid and give me exactly the information I needed at a glance so I could get on with my life rather than tinker with it all the damn time. And this is where the WP7 serves me very well..
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Happy to see some people still face the reality. Thumbs up
I love my Omnia 7 as unlike 6.5 I have not yet reset the phone since I have purchased it and it's still running silky fast. And thank god for not having a task manager and just hitting the back button. I never want to go back to fiddling with my phone to try and get it running properly.
I had a G1 when it was first released and upgraded to a Desire. In my opinion, this is why WP7 will do better than Android has...
Peoples Reactions:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is. The only reason why Android has been successful up to now (in the UK at least) is because people want a smartphone with apps. 90% of the people I know who have an Android device had no idea what Android was before they bought the phone (and some still don't really understand). Google do little to no marketing.
Soon people will walk into a shop looking for a HTC AND be further persuaded by Windows Phone.
brummiesteven said:
I had a G1 when it was first released and upgraded to a Desire. In my opinion, this is why WP7 will do better than Android has...
Peoples Reactions:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is. The only reason why Android has been successful up to now (in the UK at least) is because people want a smartphone with apps. 90% of the people I know who have an Android device had no idea what Android was before they bought the phone (and some still don't really understand). Google do little to no marketing.
Soon people will walk into a shop looking for a HTC AND be further persuaded by Windows Phone.
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Click to collapse
i thought this was supposed to be a positive thread, specifically for wp7 ? it seems like just another comparison thread, or a "but we're doing good stuff now too!" thread.
anyway, i like the OP's idea of being a positive promoter. you may find it easiest to just start a youtube channel with your mission stated, and provide good tips, avoiding buzzwords, all while filtering the negative. people relate to a video demonstration of capabilities so very well.
good luck
brummiesteven said:
I had a G1 when it was first released and upgraded to a Desire. In my opinion, this is why WP7 will do better than Android has...
Peoples Reactions:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is. The only reason why Android has been successful up to now (in the UK at least) is because people want a smartphone with apps. 90% of the people I know who have an Android device had no idea what Android was before they bought the phone (and some still don't really understand). Google do little to no marketing.
Soon people will walk into a shop looking for a HTC AND be further persuaded by Windows Phone.
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Click to collapse
i've not seen a 'you have htc' comment, once.
here, in the southeastern US, people ask "Is that a google phone ?". associating google + phone = awesome; is what it seems to be. at family/friend gatherings, i have yet to see a wp7 device. the wp6.x holdouts that i've personally known have changed to iphone or more commonly, android. phone envy ? i dunno, possibly. it seems more than anything the young folks i run into -know- the iphone from 30 feet away, know the android devices from 10 feet away, and know wp7 is still beta ware. i'm sorry, but that's the impression the young folks have here.
that being said, the older (than me) folks tend to gravitate to iphones. the large, easily read/understood apps and icons seem to attract them, along with the ease of use with their newish apple desktops. at physical therapy a few weeks ago, one gentleman was commenting about a recipe his aunt emailed him. on his phone. then he facetime'd her, and showed her the exercises that were going on. gimmicky ? i think not. i questioned him about android, wp7, and who made his phone. he didn't care, he just wanted "something that works very well, and doesn't require calling his nephew to fix."
that kind of attitude is what i'm seeing, here. people really don't -care- what the device is, what it runs, or who makes the software. all they want is a device that is mature, easily used, and easily maintained.
word-of-mouth is definitely in my neck o the woods(order of popularity/importance):
iphone
android (google phone more commonly known)
other
wp7 isn't on the radar. at all. it needs a ton of marketing, the current 'really' ads are funny, sharp, and true to life. what they -don't- do is show the phone. iphone ads on the other hand, show the phone (speeded up of course) doing what it does. android phones, show what they do. the wp7 commercials (which i love) point out the flaws of people, not the positives of the phone. we -all know- that people text and drive, are distracted everywhere in life by their phones. what we don't know is how the windows idea is going to solve this. SHOW IT !
hopefully this can be read, understood and not taken as fanboy bashing. it's very difficult for people to read a comment that isn't complete praise for a product and agree usually.
brummiesteven said:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is.
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Click to collapse
Interesting-- guess MS has done a much better job marketing WP7 in the UK than the US. The WP7 ads are on TV, but in NY I haven't come across anyone outside of techie circles who's aware of WP7 (awareness seems on par with Windows Mobile -- which is basically none -- whereas Android (which, as ohgood mentioned, is often known as "the Google phone") is almost approaching iPhone mindshare now). I'm the only WP7 owner I know of (and now the only WM owner as well-- everyone else switched to iPhones or Android handsets).
On the retail front, most WP7 displays I've seen at AT&T stores are hidden in the corner, and T-Mobile shops just have the HD7 on display along with the HD2 and a million Android phones, so it's pretty hidden (interestingly the HD7 is still in stock everywhere in retail, unlike even the HD2, which sold out almost immediately).
ohgood said:
i've not seen a 'you have htc' comment, once.
here, in the southeastern US, people ask "Is that a google phone ?". associating google + phone = awesome; is what it seems to be. at family/friend gatherings, i have yet to see a wp7 device. the wp6.x holdouts that i've personally known have changed to iphone or more commonly, android. phone envy ? i dunno, possibly. it seems more than anything the young folks i run into -know- the iphone from 30 feet away, know the android devices from 10 feet away, and know wp7 is still beta ware. i'm sorry, but that's the impression the young folks have here.
that being said, the older (than me) folks tend to gravitate to iphones. the large, easily read/understood apps and icons seem to attract them, along with the ease of use with their newish apple desktops. at physical therapy a few weeks ago, one gentleman was commenting about a recipe his aunt emailed him. on his phone. then he facetime'd her, and showed her the exercises that were going on. gimmicky ? i think not. i questioned him about android, wp7, and who made his phone. he didn't care, he just wanted "something that works very well, and doesn't require calling his nephew to fix."
that kind of attitude is what i'm seeing, here. people really don't -care- what the device is, what it runs, or who makes the software. all they want is a device that is mature, easily used, and easily maintained.
word-of-mouth is definitely in my neck o the woods(order of popularity/importance):
iphone
android (google phone more commonly known)
other
wp7 isn't on the radar. at all. it needs a ton of marketing, the current 'really' ads are funny, sharp, and true to life. what they -don't- do is show the phone. iphone ads on the other hand, show the phone (speeded up of course) doing what it does. android phones, show what they do. the wp7 commercials (which i love) point out the flaws of people, not the positives of the phone. we -all know- that people text and drive, are distracted everywhere in life by their phones. what we don't know is how the windows idea is going to solve this. SHOW IT !
hopefully this can be read, understood and not taken as fanboy bashing. it's very difficult for people to read a comment that isn't complete praise for a product and agree usually.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There then seems to be a massive division between the US (and I assume) the Rest of the World (or at least the UK/Europe).
Over here hardly anybody knows what Android is. We have no little to no android advertisements.
The major problem with Google is they don't seem to want to advertise themselves, am I correct here? U.S. Advertisements are done by Verizon/Maunfacturers etc etc?
Manufacturers do advertise their phones over here but none of them mention that the phones have android. The samsung adverts have the android robot in them but they don't really explain them. HTC adverts don't mention android at all (they just have the "you" campain).
There are a few things. The CarphoneWarehouse (mobile phone store) has started advertising android instore but this doesn't extend to TV or billboards etc. The G1 had minor "With Google" stamps on it's adverts but most people I know assumed this just meant it came with Google Maps, Google Search etc and had nothing to do with the OS.
When Networks (Carriers) get android phones they may promote them instore but this will be for the phones themselves and nothing on them running Android.
Compare this to WP7:
- Adverts on TV All the time (They might not be the best, but they're there at least)
- Massive billboard adverts, showing the phones "This changes everything Gizmodo Quote".
- o2 promoting the HD7 specifically highlighting that it's a Windows Phone
- Orange doing the same with the Omnia and Mozart
- Product Placement (see http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...0089751101228_525696227_7296354_3969070_n.jpg)
Over here hardly anyone knows what Android is and it really used to piss me off how Google did no advertising whatsoever.
To the OP: Apologies that I took this post offtopic, I'm going to contact a Mod now and ask them if they will split the marketing discussion into a new topic.
Thumbs up here also. I've known about the differences between all the O/S and WP7, I actually came from 6.5. I brought one home, and the wife almost immediately said, go back and get me one too.
When I am using the phone in public places, sometimes I can feel people stretching to see what I am using. That usually generates a little conversation. About 70% say, "Oh, I've heard about those new Windows phones", or else they have seen the commercials and have not seen the phone. I tell them overall, this is a great system now, but not without its drawbacks (namely no custom ringtones.. and a few other things that will be addressed in the near future). Not the same old MS products. Go out and get one.
I am heartened to see so many positive comments, I may take up the earlier suggestion abou showing off some features of wp7 on YouTube