Question: Would you still buy HTC phones if they were largely Android-based?

Question: Would you still buy HTC phones if they were largely Android-based? - General Questions and Answers

Reason for my question? This: http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/22/htc-adopting-android-on-50-of-its-handsets-in-2010/
Going to quite a few iPhone topics here (and made one myself), I know that a lot of you guys here seem to love WinMo (at least more than OSX), so seeing this piece of news was kind of interesting.
As we all know and as the article reiterates, the vast majority of current HTC phones are WinMo-based. The rumor is that it's eventually going to go down to 50%-based with the other 50% being Android. Of course, it's a rumor, but the articles states that HTC is already on the way to being 30% Android-based, so how unlikely is it really?
Now let me go a bit further: As it is, HTC is currently 90% WinMo-based. With the speed at which they seem to be moving (2% to 50% Android-based in one year?), who is to say they won't eventually be 90% Android-based? If this does happen, though, as we see now, XDA could easily simply add the Android-based phones with little issue. On the other hand, as we also see now with Android-based phones, the design may become more limited instead of the numerous designs available for WinMo-based phones.
But...would you guys continue to purchase HTC phones? Is your love of HTC phones all dependent upon the support of XDA-developers or can you simply not switch from WinMo?
Personally, I am pretty OS independent. I can work with any phone. However, if I do have to switch from WinMo, then I would prefer to switch to either iPhone (yeah, yeah, I know) or the Palm Pre (WebOS' increasing popularity and great usability). As it is, I'm not very interested in Android, and Google...has done/say a few things in the past to make me doubt if they'll give proper support to Android. So personally, if HTC does switch to being almost completely Android-based, then truthfully, I probably would not continue purchasing HTC.

ofcourse.
however, i am not "loyal" to any OS or company. whoever makes the best device that suits my needs gets the money.

Well
They would increase their Android models but WM will still be there, so it´s just another option to stay with HTC
Personally I think Android can be good in the future, when they achieve a more mature and solid OS, meantime I´m with WM and of course HTC

crazy talk said:
ofcourse.
however, i am not "loyal" to any OS or company. whoever makes the best device that suits my needs gets the money.
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Well, I wasn't referring to company/OS loyalty; my apology if I gave that impression. What I really meant was a question of how much one likes using Windows Mobile vs how much one likes XDA support.
As I said, I'm presuming there's a certain number of people here who likes WinMo, so I'm trying to gauge how many people would stick with HTC in the case of such a large move. From your post, I'm assuming you'll go with the best device regardless of OS or XDA support, though?
orb3000 said:
They would increase their Android models but WM will still be there, so it´s just another option to stay with HTC
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Click to collapse
True, but I'm guessing one's choices may also become a bit more limited if HTC's Android support increases even further. Look at HTC's list of Android-based phones now. If you happen to not like any of the *three* choices, whether it be due to design, specs, or whatever other reason, then you're pretty much out of luck, aren't you?
On the other hand, if you don't like one HTC WinMo-based phone, you literally have a dozen other choices in various designs and specs to fit your desire.

My Understanding is that MS doesn’t work and listen well with the manufacturer. There are many complains on current WinMo capabilities and how time consuming it is to write application for it. Furthermore complains also go in to the development speed of the WM7 which no one knows anything about it. Therefore some HTC press release could be aiming of putting serious pressure to MS. Furthermore been only on WinMo leads HTC very depended on MS. I believe that is very important point by certain negotiations between HTC and MS.
Therefore it is only understandable that HTC starting put more weight on a second pillar. Besides developing own OS the Android is the best option for HTC for shaping and driving an Operation Platform for their Devices.
Anyhow that Large Companies like HTC, Samsung and some others paying serious attention to Android indicating very bright future for Android. It is most likely now that those companies will speed up the process growing young OS to maturate. WinMo and MS is really under pressure now, if Wm7 doesn’t bring the expected wowww change then it will no other way then to say... Good bye WinMo

Not sure if I really need another OS in the mix. I wouldn't mind a device that can do both Android and WinMo but only Android ... probably not. Then I might as well make the jump to the iPhone.

I certainly wouldn't rule out Android. As somebody who uses a lot of Google's webservices, Android has a definite appeal. There's a few WM-specific apps I'd miss, but the app ecosystem for Android will only improve as time goes one.
However, I've been pretty darn happy with Microsoft's direction lately (Win 7, Zune, and the Xbox 360 are all great products). I wouldn't buy another WM6 device, but I'm definitely going to be following WM7 closely.
I still think HTC has some of the best ID guys in the business (aesthetically I prefer the TD2 and TP2 to anything on the market) and they're very talented and making software tweaks, but they really need to raise the bar for hardware specs and quality if they want me to keep buying HTC devices, regardless of the OS.
edit: And agreeing with coolVariable, I'd love a device that could easily be configured to run either natively. That would be an instant sale from me. I have a feeling MS's licensing wouldn't make it easy, though.

I'd switch in a heartbeat to anything different from HTC/WinMo as long as it's available on my Sprint SERO plan.

Bulldog said:
My Understanding is that MS doesn’t work and listen well with the manufacturer. There are many complains on current WinMo capabilities and how time consuming it is to write application for it.
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Click to collapse
Hmm, if this is the case, it may explain partly why HTC is betting so much on Android so suddenly. To be honest, if it is the case, I wouldn't be surprised either. I've seen similar techniques employed by other companies in other industries recently too.
Still, corporate shenanigans or not, 50% still seems like a massive shift to me, but I'm guessing the plan might change if their 2009 30% path becomes bumpy.
coolVariable said:
Not sure if I really need another OS in the mix. I wouldn't mind a device that can do both Android and WinMo but only Android ... probably not. Then I might as well make the jump to the iPhone.
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Click to collapse
Both Android and WinMo? You mean sort of a dual boot deal or simply a device that can install either Android or WinMo roms? That would be fantastic; I think we can all agree on that. I think we can all agree too that it's unlikely.

8525Smart said:
True, but I'm guessing one's choices may also become a bit more limited if HTC's Android support increases even further. Look at HTC's list of Android-based phones now. If you happen to not like any of the *three* choices, whether it be due to design, specs, or whatever other reason, then you're pretty much out of luck, aren't you?
On the other hand, if you don't like one HTC WinMo-based phone, you literally have a dozen other choices in various designs and specs to fit your desire.
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Click to collapse
I don´t think so, there are so many models with WM to choose from, and there will be more coming.
The actual number of Andorid models is low, and as you said, it will increase, but that is good so more options will be available.
As I said, I´ll stick to HTC WM models, at least in following 2 years...Then we can see what is Android doing and perhaps I can consider...

Great thread!
I think I will continue buying HTC phones even if there was a large Android base, even more than 50%. I like Android and all, and maybe in the future I may even take one myself, but WM is so customizable and i have it just the way i like it and wouldnt change it for anything (except for a newer more powerful device maybe tegra/snapdragon which im holding out for)
I have to give credit where credit is due: if it wasn't for this site, my tp may have been my first and last winmo phone. I wouldnt have the functionality and great experience that i do now without the help of the folks here.
BTW, I think this thread would benefit greatly from a poll, as many dont have the time to post, but everyone has time to vote.

orb3000 said:
I don´t think so, there are so many models with WM to choose from, and there will be more coming.
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Yes, currently, but if HTC does shift to majority Android-based phones, then the number of WinMo-based models will inevitably go down (in favor of Android-based models instead), which will then result in a lack of choices.
Nonetheless, I do agree with you. If Android eventually shows more promise, I would reconsider too, but at this point, I still prefer to switch to OSX/WebOS if I have to leave WinMo.
euphoria47 said:
BTW, I think this thread would benefit greatly from a poll, as many dont have the time to post, but everyone has time to vote.
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Hmm, you're right. I don't know how I missed that simple bit of fact. Unfortunately, I think it's a bit late for me to make a poll now.
P.S. Thank you for the compliment.

8525Smart said:
Well, I wasn't referring to company/OS loyalty; my apology if I gave that impression. What I really meant was a question of how much one likes using Windows Mobile vs how much one likes XDA support.
As I said, I'm presuming there's a certain number of people here who likes WinMo, so I'm trying to gauge how many people would stick with HTC in the case of such a large move. From your post, I'm assuming you'll go with the best device regardless of OS or XDA support, though?
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i knew what you were asking. and you are correct. i'll go with the best device regardless of OS or XDA support right now.
i mean, right now im using an IPhone because it was the best for me at the time. and now i want to switch to the Tp2. saying "i won't buy XXXX device because it is made by XXXX company and runs XXXX Operating system severely limits choices.

Why of course!!!!

Related

Any word on a "NEW" htc x7510 or similar

Hi all,
I was wondering if HTC was coming out with a "newer/updated" version of the x7510 or something similar. I now it's a niche device so it's rare I come across anything like it. I don't mind waiting to spend the money on a newer version of the device instead of buying a used one on ebay.
Any help with this questions is greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Robotech123 said:
Hi all,
I was wondering if HTC was coming out with a "newer/updated" version of the x7510 or something similar. I now it's a niche device so it's rare I come across anything like it. I don't mind waiting to spend the money on a newer version of the device instead of buying a used one on ebay.
Any help with this questions is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was supposed to be out about now but I haven't heard much lately:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1785&view=1&c=htc_thoth_100

Wow, depending on how this thing set up, it can be successfully marketed as a total Kindle, iPad, dell mini 5 killer. I hope its real!

Im sure looking also forward to the upcoming model, if it comes
the specs looks awesome, 1gig , 5mb camera and im looking to see
how the sdd size will be,.
let's hope and see what HTC will comes up..
still happy so far with the HTC X7510 which is a killer device.

Am pretty sure that we will not see any new models within the Advantage-series. Basing this on info from HTC since we work with them and we use 7500/7510 in our productionline where we install our own applications and sell to blue-lights...
But, I *HOPE* I'm wrong becasue I too want to see a new and improved Advantage.

I would love to know if this new device is coming to the UK in April as HTC told me just a month ago there would be no replacement for the X7510.
Is there anymore info on it yet?

Successor to HTC Advantage?
JHodgkinson said:
I would love to know if this new device is coming to the UK in April as HTC told me just a month ago there would be no replacement for the X7510.
Is there anymore info on it yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I personally think HTC may be missing an opportunity. With all the rave about the iPad, its critics point out the iPad's missing features and imperfections. When you look at what those critics would like to see (video-conference camera, etc), you get the feeling that they are actually describing something like Advantage x7510. HTC was ahead of its time when it released the x75xx series, and that was why they did not sell many units. Now the market has woken up to the realisation that something like the x75xx is really the ideal, practical business device. That is what the iPad tries to be - and all those other devices with giant screens. Several people who have seen me use the HTC x7510 at meetings have asked how they could get one. They feel disappointed when I tell them HTC don't make them any more! I have never seen any unit on sale on eBay. Why? No sane owner of an HTC Advantage would want to part with it!
Now is the time for HTC to release a re-born Advantage with:
Capacitive screen
1 GHz Snapdragon processor or similar
WVGA (480 x 800) resolution
A more secure cover for the battery/miniSD card/ SIMcard compartment
Improved camera (Not just megapixels, but really sharp pictures)
USB host
Bluetooth keyboard (optional)
I hope HTC is listening!

I agree - the good thing about the ipad is that it will launch a huge market in tablet like devices such as the Advantage. I was rather dreading the day I lost or damaged my Advantage, as it is so useful as a PDA/email/internet.
I agree - every time I use my Advantage, people comment. I think the problem was that HTC was not so well known when it brought out the Advantage, so it got forgotten by the market, plus, being honest, the Advantage does have its issues, such as the fact that it is memory strapped and is so sloooooow. It still gets commented on, and for many purposes, it is a useful alternative to laptop for up to a day out of the office.
A new one, better battery, capacitive screen, running Android, could be a winner, I completely agree.
rjstep3

It's really quiet in here.
Just Google for the Dell Mini 5 - a complete re-working of the Advantage concept, though without keyboard (but capacitive screen and onscreen keyboard mean this is not really necessary).
Looks really good.
rjstep3

its not windows mobile (or even mobile 7)

Vico100 said:
its not windows mobile (or even mobile 7)
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Click to collapse
if you look around this whole site, there is the odd forum devoted to devices running a little known OS called Android. I didn't realise that everyone here had to be signed up to Microsoft.
Seriously, with WM being consigned to the bin of history, we are all going to have to shop around. Android looks good to me, and it is developing fast. Unlike Windows Mobile. The Dell Mini 5 looks a worthy successor to the Advantage in just about every way IMHO.
rjstep3

Dell Mini 5 and HTC Advantage
rjstep3 said:
Seriously, with WM being consigned to the bin of history, we are all going to have to shop around. Android looks good to me, and it is developing fast. Unlike Windows Mobile. The Dell Mini 5 looks a worthy successor to the Advantage in just about every way IMHO.
rjstep3
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Click to collapse
It may be presumptuous to say that WM is "being consigned to the bin of history". It really depends on what you are looking for. I have read the tentative specifications of the Dell Mini 5. I would have loved to see it as "a worthy successor to the Advantage", but I really don't: With NO MS-Word or MS-Excel compatible editors (only viewers), it cannot replace my HTC Advantage. Until Google Apps includes real productivity tools, it cannot replace WM for me.

rsawoseyin said:
It may be presumptuous to say that WM is "being consigned to the bin of history". It really depends on what you are looking for. I have read the tentative specifications of the Dell Mini 5. I would have loved to see it as "a worthy successor to the Advantage", but I really don't: With NO MS-Word or MS-Excel compatible editors (only viewers), it cannot replace my HTC Advantage. Until Google Apps includes real productivity tools, it cannot replace WM for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't realise it didn't have document creation ability that is a very good point.
However, looking around at the developers, it really does seem like everyone is calling time on WM development - I wish it were not so, I should be able to keep my kit going for another year or so, but let's face it, it's time to side-grade.
I remember when Psion went out of business, I kept using my kit for a little while, but it soon became too difficult to keep it running. The world had moved on - exchange sync-ing rather than simple email for one thing. It's very sad, I have kept with WM since I ditched my Psion kit, I thought Microsoft would be a safe bet and I would never have to change, but they screwed up in a major way.
I think Dell's Mini 5 is the way to go - but it will be a little time before it is ready, that is all. The Advantage should keep going for a year or two.
rjstep3

Android and the future of WM
As I said earlier, it is all about what you are looking for. In my view, WM will remain for as long as MS-Office remains the dominant productivity tool in our offices, and as long as Google has not ported its web productivity tools into Android in a way that they can truly replace MS-Office. The true death knell for WM will be when I can use Google Docs on Android and can sync my Android device with MS-Exchange. Of course, for those only interested in social networking, these are not a consideration and the Android is good enough as it is.
I would not even talk about Apple's devices. They are great for their cool factor. But I do not see them as serious business tools.
Over time, if Microsoft refocuses on WM, it could survive many more years as a niche OS, for those who want their "office in the pocket", especially if Microsoft collaborates with the likes of HTC to blend the best of WM with the usability of Android.

rsawoseyin said:
As I said earlier, it is all about what you are looking for. In my view, WM will remain for as long as MS-Office remains the dominant productivity tool in our offices, and as long as Google has not ported its web productivity tools into Android in a way that they can truly replace MS-Office. The true death knell for WM will be when I can use Google Docs on Android and can sync my Android device with MS-Exchange. Of course, for those only interested in social networking, these are not a consideration and the Android is good enough as it is.
I would not even talk about Apple's devices. They are great for their cool factor. But I do not see them as serious business tools.
Over time, if Microsoft refocuses on WM, it could survive many more years as a niche OS, for those who want their "office in the pocket", especially if Microsoft collaborates with the likes of HTC to blend the best of WM with the usability of Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we are, as they say, in violent agreement.
rjstep3

Would HTC ever make a Phone for WebOS, now that Palm bought by HP?

I am probably not considering something very obvious, such as "focus", but with the news that HP has now bought Palm, rescuing the highly praised webOS from a premature death, would HTC --- do you think --- ever make a webOS smartphone?
Aren't they playing it rather cool at the moment re Windows Phone? -- with some speculation that Microsoft's lockdowns would prohibit things like SenseUI, thereby giving reason to question "why make phones at all for Windows?" ... So, with that thought floating around, I'm just not familiar with the proprietary relationships between Palm and its device manufacturers.
Someone help me out here:
(1) Phone Manufacturers making devices for Android OS:
HTC
Motorola
Samsung
Sony
Acer
(Toshiba?)
( )
(2) Phone Manufacturers slated to make devices for WindowsPhone series 7:
??
(3) Phone Manufacturers who design phones for Blackberry:
?? (I don't know this market at all, but am curious)
(4) Phone Manufacturers who make phones currently for Palm (the Pre, Pixie)
?? again, i just don't know, have never followed this
(5) Phone Manufacturers who make phones for iPhone OS:
Apple
(some knock-off called Syphone, right? but does it actually run apple's OS?)

I'm pretty sure blackberry design its own phones.

Everyone (or at least most of them) you have listed up in the Android section is also making WP7 devices. Additionally also DELL. Nokia is also doing close business with Microsoft. It's a pity! They should rather jump on Android as well if they want to get out there alive

WalkingTaco said:
I'm pretty sure blackberry design its own phones.
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Click to collapse
Really? They have in-house product design, or do they contract it out secretively and just brand every result a RIM device?
I know next to nothing about Blackberrys other than the hype about redundant servers and lots of reasons why they have been billed as the secure email solution for all these lawfirm and gopvernment types...
But once they went touchscreen, do they actually have a separate OS, or do they not distinguish between the hardware and software -- for marketing purposes so as not to confuse their customers about their core message of secure mesaging?
Followup since maybe you know a thing or two about blackberrys: the storm was a bust, right? At the time it was considered laughbalethat they could penetrate the casual consumer market.. but have they come back with better offerings in the touchscreen arena?
Do you see them always in some way presrving their core hardware philosophy of keyboard below screen, single orientatation vs rotate? ... or do you think they will try to move their diehard custimers toweard bigger screens like droid, and give them a slide out, flip out, fold over, or other kind of deployable hardware keyboard?
Just curiousabout your thoughts/

RAMMANN said:
Everyone (or at least most of them) you have listed up in the Android section is also making WP7 devices. Additionally also DELL. Nokia is also doing close business with Microsoft. It's a pity! They should rather jump on Android as well if they want to get out there alive
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Click to collapse
Okay I figured that re WP7 device makers, since they came first and android was tapped next... But dell makes touchscreen devices? damn, i never knew that! Their marketing must be lousy.
Nokia keeps baffling me.
RAMMANN, I saw you commenting (i think ) in that " WP7 fail" thread, right, aren't you active in that?
Regardless: Help me understand this: I've never understood the Symbian OS or its market simply because i never had a symbian powered phone... But, isn't this correct -- about a year ago nokia bought symbian, right? But my recollection from back then -- which may be wrong -- was that they were going to kill it -- or simply use it as a proprietary OS in their own phones.
And yet... within that WP7 fail thread, numerous comments particularly at the start of the thread sang the praises of Symbian OS as the most efficient and best Open source OS out there -- with those praising it saying that, by contrast, ANdroid is a battery hog and ineffcient in its process managewment... The precise details are not so impt for what I want to knoiw:
Although I have known nothing about Symbian, the buzz, whenever i heard it mentioned over the past 5 years, was always positive... almost cult-like ... or rather "true believers" because it was that outstanding an OS...
So, if that is the case... and Nokia bought them, what WAS their plan? to give them respources to develop it further fortheir exclusive use, or what? The discussion confused me becasue it made it seem to me that it was still a very active OS outthere for developers to work with...
So what am I missing her.. it seems like I am missing the whole story. And re Nokia themselves... why are they always -- to my mind -- considered in an entirely different box or category from WM (i don;t like calling WP), Android, iPhone, WebOS, Blackberry? They never seem to get parity... The only time I hear or see Nokia mentioned is when someone wants to make a comparison about how inefficinet current phones are, and how their Nokia from 10 years ago could do virtually everything Phone X can do today (minus the big media player screen) with battery charge lasting 5 days, and stuff of that nature... or they mention the Nokia N900 as the best phone out there --- yet it rarely comes up in the big compariosn tests.
Why is that?
And does N900 run symbian OS? If so, is it marketed that way? [EDIT: OKAY I just read this part, so i see that answer is no: which begs the question AGAIN: why are devs here at XDA continuing to extoll the greatness of symbian ?? why?? Is it The Poor Little OS That Nobody Really Took The Time To Understand? or what??
EDIT: from a review contained in link above:
The main buzz about the Nokia N900 has centred on its operating system. Instead of the ageing Symbian S60 OS found in all Nokia's top end blowers, Espoo has opted for Maemo 5 instead. And we're pleased to say the results, as far as the OS is concerned, are every bit as good as we hoped. Maemo 5 is a far more intuitive OS than S60 and certainly edges out the N97 for ease of use. The menus are clear and straight forward, so you won't spend ages rooting around for what you want when you need it. It feels way more powerful too, with the Nokia N900 dealing with multitasking at lightning speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And finally, this statement:
Nokia is also doing close business with Microsoft. It's a pity! They should rather jump on Android as well if they want to get out there alive
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off, how are they collaborating? Are they not in direct competition with head-to-head OS ?
... Were you alluding to more of a case of Nokia hooking up with the wrong contender for SURVIVING ALONG WITH IPHONE -- Windows vs Android? -- or were you alluding to Nokia having company stability problems like Palm was having, heading straight inot the tank -- before rescued last second by HP?
I know these are lots of questions -- but it's because I see the events of Palm's acquisition as being way more significant than others might see. And so it has promoted all these questions... yes... about survival as consumers start to select in the next year which touchscreen platforms start to go away because they just can't compete anymore, lacking sufficient differentiation or value proposition.
Any answer -- even if to just one of my 50 questions -- would be valued! thank you

I don't know what you are all asking, but trying to answer....
I never had Symbian device, nor do I really know a lot about the openess of the OS. From what I heard it was very open in the beginning (maybe similar to Windows Mobile?) but then suddenly lots of viruses began to spread and the Symbian OS got locked down. I think it's a similar Sandbox approach like on Android. Though I can't really say this is correct, it's only what I heard from people, so far I never did any research on my own.
Nokia jumpin on WP7 instead of Android, I took a piss on it because I think WP7 sucks. Currently it's not even sure the OS will be successful. Android already is.
That's all.... really nothing to worry about or put a lot of thoughts into

design != produce
htc produce devices for others and design for others or at least used to
apple, ms.... don't produce their hardware they design it and have others produce it

quicksite said:
Apple
(some knock-off called Syphone, right? but does it actually run apple's OS?)
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Click to collapse
It doesn't. The old ones used to run Nucleous Plus OS. I heard some versions are running android / windows 6.1 now.

Real quick, too much to read. I know BlackBerry is owned by RIM. I think they actually manufacture it and distribute it. I don't know if you were asking about RIM or just knew nothing about BlackBerrys.
And why companies operate with Microsoft: money.

Thanks for the answers.
So Blackberry makes Blackerrys. check.
Nokia to work with MS because of money. Okay.
HTC produces devices platform owners prescribe, ie to match the WM hardware and OS specs and Android hardware and OS specs.
I ask too many questions, I'll admit that. But my two main ones remain unaswered, not even close. (still, why can't people take 10 minutes occasionally for some big picture thinking, why is everything reduced down to twitter chatter?
(1) My thread topic question -- no one has even taken a stab at it. Who currently makes the phones that run webOS? i.e., who made the Pre and Pixie. ... with HP's acquisition of Palm, do you see HP wanting to exclusively manufacture Palm devices? ... or do you see them having any interest in having more device choice by asking HTC to develop phones for webOS. That's my main question. My guess is: no one knows. fair enough.
(2) My 2nd main question was what Nokia's plans for Symbian were. ANd could someone sort out the mixed message? At that "Windows Phone 7 epic fail" thread, various XDA-devs sing the praises of Symbian as a better OS than android, way more efficient. .. Then I read the review for the Nokia N900 and it says Nokia jettisoned Symbian as outdated. So wtf are people talking about re SYmbian then? And does it have a future?
RELATED: In the Touchscreen OS Wars of 2010-2011, it looks like webOS will live to see another day, WP7 will likely survive and thrive in its enterprise market niche or wherever the hell their niche turns out to be. iPhone OS survives. Android survives -- and yet -- you read some online magazines and people love to speak of market fragmentation already happening with Android, and that it's already spelling doom and gloom for Android yadda yadda... I think though that is true re the 2.1 vs 1.5. 1.6 version problems and Google ought to get their act togeher, Android , unless they misstep, is here to stay.
But will Blackberry have and be a touchscreen OS, or a platform Blackberry builds off of, or will it be phased out?
And what of Symbian? Is it in effect dead now in terms of a platform for mainstream consumer devices?

quicksite said:
(1) My thread topic question -- no one has even taken a stab at it. Who currently makes the phones that run webOS? i.e., who made the Pre and Pixie. ... with HP's acquisition of Palm, do you see HP wanting to exclusively manufacture Palm devices? ... or do you see them having any interest in having more device choice by asking HTC to develop phones for webOS. That's my main question. My guess is: no one knows. fair enough.
RELATED: In the Touchscreen OS Wars of 2010-2011, it looks like webOS will live to see another day, WP7 will likely survive and thrive in its enterprise market niche or wherever the hell their niche turns out to be. iPhone OS survives. Android survives -- and yet -- you read some online magazines and people love to speak of market fragmentation already happening with Android, and that it's already spelling doom and gloom for Android yadda yadda... I think though that is true re the 2.1 vs 1.5. 1.6 version problems and Google ought to get their act togeher, Android , unless they misstep, is here to stay.
But will Blackberry have and be a touchscreen OS, or a platform Blackberry builds off of, or will it be phased out?
And what of Symbian? Is it in effect dead now in terms of a platform for mainstream consumer devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, but your topic question is is very bold letters on wikipedia. Pal, Inc. is the manufacturer of the Palm Pixi. Almost every question you have related to who makes what is easiest thing to find on Google.
BlackBerry has a touchscreen OS. The BlackBerry Storm? Hello? BlackBerry is here to stay. It is very useful for office phones. My fathers work actually distributes those now instead of beepers. When you need a phone for nothing but e-mail and scheduling and nothing else - BlackBerrys are the best. Who knows about touchscreen as their not really trying to apply to teenagers and fashion freaks. They're trying to make a phone that's good for business - and their doing a very good job.
Android will always be here to stay. Trust me on this. There's nothing wrong with the market. If you did read that, it's just a rumor. Google has no reason to "get their act together." Android was just born, and it's getting developed fast. See, they could wait like Apple and make a new generation only every now and again, or shoot out updates rapidly. I like updates rapidly. =]

r3s-rt said:
I'm sorry, but your topic question is is very bold letters on wikipedia. Pal, Inc. is the manufacturer of the Palm Pixi. Almost every question you have related to who makes what is easiest thing to find on Google.=]
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Click to collapse
Okay then, fine. That's the literal side of XDA that i find so unrefreshing. On the other hand, there are thousands to compensate for your snide attitude who recognize the underlying question is about impact of HP buying Palm and what ripple effects we might see.
Let me google that:
"ripple effects we might see due to HP buying Palm"
I'm sure it'll be fascinating, but in any event probably a lot more interesting than anything you've added here.
Chastising and pulling the old "use search" rubric is quite boring and indicative of a tunnelvision mind. But thanks for an answer at least.

quicksite said:
Okay then, fine. That's the literal side of XDA that i find so unrefreshing. On the other hand, there are thousands to compensate for your snide attitude who recognize the underlying question is about impact of HP buying Palm and what ripple effects we might see.
Let me google that:
"ripple effects we might see due to HP buying Palm"
I'm sure it'll be fascinating, but in any event probably a lot more interesting than anything you've added here.
Chastising and pulling the old "use search" rubric is quite boring and indicative of a tunnelvision mind. But thanks for an answer at least.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that's what 90% of people at XDA find so unrefreshing. You ask a question (one very simple to answer) without trying to find it out yourself. Then you post a thread and when people respond with ideas, you INSULT THEM for not knowing! THEN, when we help for future reference, you INSULT?! You actually expect us to help you? Next time I see you, I'll be sure to kick you in the nuts and demand you take me out to dinner.
It's not like I even had to dig through Google!
http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=&sou...anufactures+palm&gs_rfai=&fp=84c7fb41710deb10
Very, very simple search with 10 results right there. Don't insult me because you're lazy or just that stupid.
edit: To your ripple effect remark:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...after+buying+palm&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
DID THAT JUST WORK!? ZOMG!

For many of the questions you ask people can only answer with spectaculations, esp. thread title, so what would you expect? and btw this is usually a development forum
I personally don't understand the fragmentation issue people claim over Android. I don't have an Android phone and therefore never had a chance to access the market but from what I heard people with Android 1.6 don't see applications designed for 2.1 and sometimes vice versa. Actually that's a good thing because this way it is secured that you're not installing an app that doesn't work on your phone. And if developers are still active on such projects they will add support for future versions of Android and if they don't then their projects will die. That's also a good thing. This is better solved compared to WM. Imagine you have 6.5 and install applications designed for PPC 2003. Sometimes they work, sometimes not, sometimes they work but just look ugly (designed for stylus etc.)
Like I said before I can't tell this for sure, but probably an experienced Android user can confirm this or otherwise tell what's wrong....

RAMMANN said:
For many of the questions you ask people can only answer with spectaculations, esp. thread title, so what would you expect? and btw this is usually a development forum
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Click to collapse
Was this to me, or him? o.o
I personally don't understand the fragmentation issue people claim over Android. I don't have an Android phone and therefore never had a chance to access the market but from what I heard people with Android 1.6 don't see applications designed for 2.1 and sometimes vice versa. Actually that's a good thing because this way it is secured that you're not installing an app that doesn't work on your phone. And if developers are still active on such projects they will add support for future versions of Android and if they don't then their projects will die. That's also a good thing. This is better solved compared to WM. Imagine you have 6.5 and install applications designed for PPC 2003. Sometimes they work, sometimes not, sometimes they work but just look ugly (designed for stylus etc.)
Like I said before I can't tell this for sure, but probably an experienced Android user can confirm this or otherwise tell what's wrong....
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Click to collapse
I see plenty of 2.1 only apps in the market, and vice versa (from all the comments "Duuhhjuu doesn't run on my droid which isn't 1.6 even though you clearly say its for donut only duhhhjjuu" I wish this was true, and this is why many dev. actually stop developing.
And if it doesn't run - it doesn't run. You get a force close. If it runs - it runs.

r3s-rt said:
And that's what 90% of people at XDA find so unrefreshing. You ask a question (one very simple to answer) without trying to find it out yourself. Then you post a thread and when people respond with ideas,
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If you had any ideas about HTC ever manufacturing for webOS touchscreen operating system, i did not see them, for that was the question, and it's never been edited in the title.
you INSULT THEM for not knowing! THEN, when we help for future reference, you INSULT?!
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Honestly r3s-rt, I'm not sure where I see your help at all. Your interest was slapdown from the start, and you got called out on it, and people like you don't like getting called out on anything, so you get into anger mode, and "I'm so much smarter than you" mode. That's what I meant by annoying.
It's not like I even had to dig through Google!
http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=&sou...anufactures+palm&gs_rfai=&fp=84c7fb41710deb10
Very, very simple search with 10 results right there. Don't insult me because you're lazy or just that stupid.
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You are correct that there's a sub-question of the thread topic that is a simple known that a search engine would tell me. If I had posted a thread topic asking "hey guys, who manufactures the palm Pre", it would be relevant. The fact that its incidental to the core question of what change might be introduced by a culture change brought on by HP 's purchase of Palm mitigates your whole operatic theme of "look how quickly I found the answer!"...
edit: To your ripple effect remark:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...after+buying+palm&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
DID THAT JUST WORK!? ZOMG!
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Click to collapse
Look, I can tell you think you are about the smartest guy on the planet, and perhaps you are. However, you are showing your oversensitivity to my comment about the twitterization of our culture 's attention span. I stand by that. "Too much to read" was you preface... That stung you. You didn't like that. So you wanted to slam. I understand that. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings implying you had an impatiently short attention span.
If you DO happen to read this whole post, consider the following:
Here is a snapshot of your search results that allegedly answer the central question of this thread:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
The presence of search results on Google does not equal the opinions of XDA-dev members.
My thread question: Would HTC ever make a Phone for WebOS, now that Palm bought by HP? I think has relevance because there has been quite a lot of discussion since February and the preview of WP7 that HTC might not be so interested in making phones for WP7 given they would be, supposedly, prohibited from including any of the HTC SenseUI interface features they have been developing and improving over the years, from TouchFlo on WM to Sense on Android. Thus, if they were to be removed from the WP7 lineup, my question, sparked by the acquisition of palm by HP, was whether HTC might ever be asked to make phones for the webOS platform. It seems to me to be an interesting question to ask a forum founded around a company that started the touchscreen phone industry.
That is why there is such robust opinion on the 324 posts here on this thread thread WP7 is complete FAIL ... far more depth and insight than could be found by sequential readings from this for example:
The problem is: algorithms still do not replace humans, and much as I find your style of communication annoying, I would probably grow tired, on a desert island, of talking to an algorithm after a while and mush prefer talking to you than to it... much like Man in white and man in black on LOST.
But trust me I get it, you'd much rather be deemed right and thew winner than have a thoughtful speculation about the ripple effects of webOS being kept alive by HP's purchase of Palm. I'm really happy to hear of it. Palm threw a Hail Mary pass with their ground-up webOS and new Pre -- and it was really well reviewed, well- received, and to this day there is considerable praise for webOS. That it was about to die with palm's imminent death would have been too bad.
It will be interesting to see if Microsoft's Hail Mary pass can resuscitate its once dominant mobile platform.
General
Anything that involves all of the phones and doesn't fit in any of the other fora.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

(3) Phone Manufacturers who design phones for Blackberry:
?? (I don't know this market at all, but am curious)
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I know BlackBerry is owned by RIM. I think they actually manufacture it and distribute it.
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But will Blackberry have and be a touchscreen OS, or a platform Blackberry builds off of, or will it be phased out?
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BlackBerry has a touchscreen OS. The BlackBerry Storm? Hello? BlackBerry is here to stay. It is very useful for office phones. My fathers work actually distributes those now instead of beepers. When you need a phone for nothing but e-mail and scheduling and nothing else - BlackBerrys are the best. Who knows about touchscreen as their not really trying to apply to teenagers and fashion freaks. They're trying to make a phone that's good for business - and their doing a very good job.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(4) Phone Manufacturers who make phones currently for Palm (the Pre, Pixie)
?? again, i just don't know, have never followed this
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Pal, Inc. is the manufacturer of the Palm Pixi.
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I was never here to help? You just got pissy because I simply pointed out that you refused to search, instead you depended on everyone else.
I ask too many questions, I'll admit that. But my two main ones remain unaswered, not even close. (still, why can't people take 10 minutes occasionally for some big picture thinking, why is everything reduced down to twitter chatter?
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There's where you insulted. If you didn't mean that as an insult, it certainly came off as one. However, as I don't use twitter, other than keeping up with companies, news, etc.; I wouldn't know about this twitter talk. I could possibly be wrong.
You called me out on nothing.
I'm sorry, but your topic question is is very bold letters on wikipedia. Pal, Inc. is the manufacturer of the Palm Pixi. Almost every question you have related to who makes what is easiest thing to find on Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the most "offensive" thing I could have said. Your response was:
Okay then, fine. That's the literal side of XDA that i find so unrefreshing. On the other hand, there are thousands to compensate for your snide attitude who recognize the underlying question is about impact of HP buying Palm and what ripple effects we might see.
Let me google that:
"ripple effects we might see due to HP buying Palm"
I'm sure it'll be fascinating, but in any event probably a lot more interesting than anything you've added here.
Chastising and pulling the old "use search" rubric is quite boring and indicative of a tunnelvision mind. But thanks for an answer at least.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To which I said:
And that's what 90% of people at XDA find so unrefreshing. You ask a question (one very simple to answer) without trying to find it out yourself. Then you post a thread and when people respond with ideas, you INSULT THEM for not knowing! THEN, when we help for future reference, you INSULT?! You actually expect us to help you? Next time I see you, I'll be sure to kick you in the nuts and demand you take me out to dinner.
It's not like I even had to dig through Google!
http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=&sour...c7fb41710deb10
Very, very simple search with 10 results right there. Don't insult me because you're lazy or just that stupid.
edit: To your ripple effect remark:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...=&oq=&gs_rfai=
DID THAT JUST WORK!? ZOMG!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now can you follow the conversation? You called me out on what where? I got angry where? I simple stated facts, and even got a humorous laugh out of this.
Here is a snapshot of your search results that allegedly answer the central question of this thread:
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http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sale-of-palm-looking-tougher-2010-04-29
^^ Also taken from my search results.
In a conference call with analysts, Bradley called H-P's $1.2 billion deal to buy Palm a "transformational deal." He noted the company's similar Silicon Valley backgrounds, and promised that H-P will invest "heavily" in Palm, and plans to expand the company's webOS into other devices beyond smartphones. He also said Jon Rubinstein, the CEO of Palm, plans to stay on. See H-P-Palm news story.
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http://gizmodo.com/5526620/hp-buys-palm-how-it-changes-everything
^^ Taken from my search results. Clearly covers your ripple effects.
Ohhh this one's a long one....
Worst Case Scenario
The real challenge might come in reconciling the brand personalities. Palm's products, regardless of how well they've sold, have always been innovative—the Pre was a breath of fresh air when it was released. HP, on the other hand, has tended to paint in broad beige strokes. And their products that do stand out, like the Envy laptop, have come across as derivative. There's also the unfortunate case of iPaq—another HP acquisition that was left to rot.
So will Palm fuel HP's creative capabilities? Or will HP stifle the ingenuity that's made Palm worth buying in the first place?
Best Case Scenario
HP has the resources to fully leverage Palm's software and hardware, and not just on smartphones. And while Palm's problem was never that it couldn't keep up with demand, its main issue—generating demand in the first place—is no longer a problem with HP's reach and marketing budget. HP's made a significant investment thus far in their TouchSmart interface, and while it's a fine skin it can only stand to gain from webOS insights. Can you say webOS tablet?
What May Happen
As for when we'll actually start seeing webOS in HP products, HP's being mum. It's reasonable to expect we won't hear anything more official until the transaction is complete, but there are some very clear paths they can (and probably will) take:
• Phones—Whither the iPaq? Ha, who cares! It's doubtful that HP would spend this kind of money on an established brand like Palm just to murder it in service of a flimsy brand like iPaq. HP's phone line has always been undistinguished, so for them to buy Palm is effectively to install a pre-made, well-regarded mobile division into their company. So, what does this mean in terms of actual phones?
There will probably be another generation of webOS phones. Yesterday, I wouldn't have felt certain about this; today, it's a good bet. Palm was living and dying by the Pre and Pixi, which were first-gen products running a first-gen operating system. HP's massive resources will give the OS the kind of time it needs to spread its wings on time-appropriate hardware. Imagine a webOS phone with WVGA resolution; with a Snapdragon processor; with a genuinely responsive interface. That's what we're talking about here. Forget the Pre Plus—it's time to start waiting for the Pre II.
The only awkward point here is that HP is an official partner with Microsoft for Windows Phone 7. They've committed to continue working with Windows Phone 7, although one might imagine that their interest in Microsoft's platform diminishes significantly now that they've got their own in-house mobile operating system.
• Computers—With this purchase comes a wealth of intellectual property (patents) spanning decades, much of which concerns touch interfaces. HP has been very, very aggressive in developing touch interfaces for Windows machines with its TouchSmart line, and could easily incorporate some of Palm's mobile tricks into its software. By and large, though, HP's expansive computer lineup will remain unchanged.
• Tablets—HP's tablet strategy is heading in a dangerous direction. The anticipated HP Slate runs Windows 7, a desktop OS, while much of the rest of the industry seems to have opted for mobile OSes. HP hasn't shown a ton of interest in Android in the past, and their tablet plans have so far ignored Google's OS—the presumed competitors to the iPad's iPhone-based OS. Which brings me to what is quite possibly the most exciting possibility here: The webOS tablet.
No, seriously—think about it. WebOS has a more intuitive interface than Android, and better notification system than anyone else, and prodigious social networking abilities. It has a fair amount of apps. It's compatible with the same mobile hardware that's powering many of the first wave of Android tablets. This—this—would be awesome.
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Click to collapse
Now, do you really want to continue this flaming me for helping you? o.o

Sorry, I believe this deserves its own post:
But trust me I get it, you'd much rather be deemed right and thew winner than have a thoughtful speculation about the ripple effects of webOS being kept alive by HP's purchase of Palm. I'm really happy to hear of it. Palm threw a Hail Mary pass with their ground-up webOS and new Pre -- and it was really well reviewed, well- received, and to this day there is considerable praise for webOS. That it was about to die with palm's imminent death would have been too bad.
Click to expand...
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H-P will invest "heavily" in Palm, and plans to expand the company's webOS into other devices beyond smartphones
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I hear an apology?
Oh, NO HTC will NOT be developing a phone with webos anytime soon. They may try, but that all ends up in HPs hands. If they're smart, and can keep webos on the right track, then no, don't expect to see it on an HTC phone anytime soon.

r3s-rt said:
Now, do you really want to continue this flaming me for helping you? o.o
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not flaming. But I will take issue with you because you are so heavily invested in being right, so much so that while you place your microscope upon certain pixels that excite you, you ignore, or just don't consider my question worthy of consideration.. which is your right, but why do you have to pollute my thread and take it totally off-topic -- to prove your prowess?
What is wrong with you.
The presence of search results on Google does not equal the opinions of XDA-dev members.
My thread question: Would HTC ever make a Phone for WebOS, now that Palm bought by HP? I think has relevance because there has been quite a lot of discussion since February and the preview of WP7 that HTC might not be so interested in making phones for WP7 given they would be, supposedly, prohibited from including any of the HTC SenseUI interface features they have been developing and improving over the years, from TouchFlo on WM to Sense on Android. Thus, if they were to be removed from the WP7 lineup, my question, sparked by the acquisition of palm by HP, was whether HTC might ever be asked to make phones for the webOS platform. It seems to me to be an interesting question to ask a forum founded around a company that started the touchscreen phone industry.
That is why there is such robust opinion on the 324 posts here on this thread thread WP7 is complete FAIL ... far more depth and insight than could be found by sequential readings from this for example:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The quoted part above is what I care about. Not someone's story. Not someone's search results. That's not why Im part of XDA... As the Windows Phone 7 example should have amply shown... but again, pixels that didn't allow you to score. Such a tempest in a teapot.

quicksite said:
Not flaming. But I will take issue with you because you are so heavily invested in being right, so much so that while you place your microscope upon certain pixels that excite you, you ignore, or just don't consider my question worthy of consideration.. which is your right, but why do you have to pollute my thread and take it totally off-topic -- to prove your prowess?
What is wrong with you.
The quoted part above is what I care about. Not someone's story. Not someone's search results. That's not why Im part of XDA... As the Windows Phone 7 example should have amply shown... but again, pixels that didn't allow you to score. Such a tempest in a teapot.
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Click to collapse
Please, read my last post then come up with an actual response. No more insults. You are just determined for me to insult you, aren't you?

[Q] For people who LIKE WP7 Only

I really like WP7, I recognise that it has some missing features but I am confident the se will be addressed with time. My concern is that anybody considering WP7 who reads this forum (or a plethora of other websites) could be easily put off by the negativity displayed by:-
1) Android/ IOS trolls
2) Disenchanted WM6.5 users who still want to spend their lives tweaking and cooking
Roms
3) People with an irrational fear of "the cloud".
4) Journalists who are desperate for MS to fail (because they are not Apple or Google
and thus not trendy!)
My question is, what can those of us who have faith in the platform do to balance the arguments a bit? I'm not talking about fanboism, I'm talking about expounding the positive features of WP7 like one note, like cloud sync, like the people hub, like the fast browser, like XBox integration for gamers (even though I do not use that much), like the easy access camera, like Zune and Zune Pass, like the fluid interface, like 25Gb of FREE Skydrive etc.
For example, I have a 16Gb HD7 with 25Gb skydrive means that to me I have a 41Gb device - more than my Ipad (see, I am platform agnostic).
If those of us who like WP7 do not actively support it, it will go the way of WebOS no matter how much Microsoft spend on their marketing budget.
WP7 is a revolution, let's get revolutionary about it!!!!

adesonic said:
I really like WP7, I recognise that it has some missing features but I am confident the se will be addressed with time. My concern is that anybody considering WP7 who reads this forum (or a plethora of other websites) could be easily put off by the negativity displayed by:-
1) Android/ IOS trolls
2) Disenchanted WM6.5 users who still want to spend their lives tweaking and cooking
Roms
3) People with an irrational fear of "the cloud".
4) Journalists who are desperate for MS to fail (because they are not Apple or Google
and thus not trendy!)
My question is, what can those of us who have faith in the platform do to balance the arguments a bit? I'm not talking about fanboism, I'm talking about expounding the positive features of WP7 like one note, like cloud sync, like the people hub, like the fast browser, like XBox integration for gamers (even though I do not use that much), like the easy access camera, like Zune and Zune Pass, like the fluid interface, like 25Gb of FREE Skydrive etc.
For example, I have a 16Gb HD7 with 25Gb skydrive means that to me I have a 41Gb device - more than my Ipad (see, I am platform agnostic).
If those of us who like WP7 do not actively support it, it will go the way of WebOS no matter how much Microsoft spend on their marketing budget.
WP7 is a revolution, let's get revolutionary about it!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with ya, WP7 brother. I try to do my part by telling it like it is, being the highest quality mobile OS yet released, but who knows if it is having fruitful effect.

I'm with you too
It may be missing some features but just by looking at it, you can see that once Microsoft does implement the missing features it will look a lot better than Android's.
It's the first OS that's actually impressed me ever since iPhone came out.
I liked Android but it felt unfinished and I felt that buying one was not a good investment, since by the next year they would stop handing out updates for it and they would release a device frequently.

Hell yeah! Let's do this thing!

you want to know the best way to promote windows phone? allow people to use it. i've shown my phone to virtually all my friends, and they all really like it. though they didn't use it for very long, they liked the capabilities of the OS in terms of smoothness, visual appearance, and functionality (well with what they played with).
i think we really just need to see MS continue to better the platform both on the phone side, but also on the developer side. they need to get the SDKs for all the hardware out asap, and then work on more SDKs that will bring features not yet on the market by any other maker. what could this be? who knows... but MS has enough in their coffers to find out, as well as enough R&D going on.

The Gate Keeper said:
you want to know the best way to promote windows phone? allow people to use it. i've shown my phone to virtually all my friends, and they all really like it. though they didn't use it for very long, they liked the capabilities of the OS in terms of smoothness, visual appearance, and functionality (well with what they played with).
i think we really just need to see MS continue to better the platform both on the phone side, but also on the developer side. they need to get the SDKs for all the hardware out asap, and then work on more SDKs that will bring features not yet on the market by any other maker. what could this be? who knows... but MS has enough in their coffers to find out, as well as enough R&D going on.
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^this! I've already had one person wish they hadn't got a desire - let's keep this up!
You know what Microsoft need though right? A huge pr stunt in the US, UK, France, Germany etc. Just to catch the headlines and make sure that good things are said

+1. I'm very glad to have gotten this phone and once the first update is out I'll be even happier. All my friends who have been on the fence about a new phone have heard from me!

For me the WP7 is perfect in the sense that I am done with the whole power user/modding thing. I used to have a TP2 and tried a lot of ROMs but in the end I just wanted a phone that did two things i.e fluid and give me exactly the information I needed at a glance so I could get on with my life rather than tinker with it all the damn time. And this is where the WP7 serves me very well.
I see a lot of 6.5 users whining here but I truly wish they had done a bit of reading on the WP7 platform so they would know that the WP7 is going to be nothing like the 6.5 and I truly hope it never will be because MS will permanently lose me to android. I'm glad I gave WP7 a chance after reading up on it even though I had washed my hands off the WM platform after the 6.5 nightmare.
Probably the biggest reason I'm enjoying the WP7 is because I knew fully well before buying the phone what features to expect and what it won't have out of the box so that saved me the headache of buying first and then whining about it in these forums. I mean what part of 1.0 don't you understand? Personally I think the 6.5 fan boys are even worse than android fan boys. For me the 6.5 offers quantity over quality and I guess some people are fine with that but not me and that's why I chose WP7.

f1restarter said:
I see a lot of 6.5 users whining here but I truly wish they had done a bit of reading on the WP7 platform so they would know that the WP7 is going to be nothing like the 6.5 and I truly hope it never will be because MS will permanently lose me to android. I'm glad I gave WP7 a chance after reading up on it even though I had washed my hands off the WM platform after the 6.5 nightmare.
Probably the biggest reason I'm enjoying the WP7 is because I knew fully well before buying the phone what features to expect and what it won't have out of the box so that saved me the headache of buying first and then whining about it in these forums. I mean what part of 1.0 don't you understand? Personally I think the 6.5 fan boys are even worse than android fan boys. For me the 6.5 offers quantity over quality and I guess some people are fine with that but not me and that's why I chose WP7.
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Click to collapse
Mm, the 6.5 people are really starting to piss me off. They seem to think that WP7 is a sequel to WM6.5 - which it quite obviously isn't. Microsoft are quite obviously trying to forget WM, as it was, and still is, total rubbish. At least the Android guys actually have a semi-decent OS to whine about :/

It Will Get Better.
adesonic you have my support ,just wait for the updates and be happy.

I agree with everything said. Winmo users hate it because they can't tweak it (though it doesn't need tweaks so you can actually use the phone instead of always trying to fix it).
Android users are complaining about how "closed" it is. I think android is the one that needs to worry. Android has climbed quickly due to it's "open" nature, which means its on more devices than any other OS. The problem being is that most of those devices are pure crap. There is definitely not an across the board experience on android. Hell, some devices are still on 1.5/1.6 of android. Fragmentation has exploded at a much higher rate than on winmo, which has started to lead to developer frustration because their apps don't run smoothly on all phones.
I see the really dedicated tweakers heading over to android, and people that only tweaked to make their phone run properly to switch to wp7. It will be a better overall OS in the next year than android.

f1restarter said:
For me the WP7 is perfect in the sense that I am done with the whole power user/modding thing. I used to have a TP2 and tried a lot of ROMs but in the end I just wanted a phone that did two things i.e fluid and give me exactly the information I needed at a glance so I could get on with my life rather than tinker with it all the damn time. And this is where the WP7 serves me very well..
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Click to collapse
Happy to see some people still face the reality. Thumbs up

I love my Omnia 7 as unlike 6.5 I have not yet reset the phone since I have purchased it and it's still running silky fast. And thank god for not having a task manager and just hitting the back button. I never want to go back to fiddling with my phone to try and get it running properly.

I had a G1 when it was first released and upgraded to a Desire. In my opinion, this is why WP7 will do better than Android has...
Peoples Reactions:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is. The only reason why Android has been successful up to now (in the UK at least) is because people want a smartphone with apps. 90% of the people I know who have an Android device had no idea what Android was before they bought the phone (and some still don't really understand). Google do little to no marketing.
Soon people will walk into a shop looking for a HTC AND be further persuaded by Windows Phone.

brummiesteven said:
I had a G1 when it was first released and upgraded to a Desire. In my opinion, this is why WP7 will do better than Android has...
Peoples Reactions:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is. The only reason why Android has been successful up to now (in the UK at least) is because people want a smartphone with apps. 90% of the people I know who have an Android device had no idea what Android was before they bought the phone (and some still don't really understand). Google do little to no marketing.
Soon people will walk into a shop looking for a HTC AND be further persuaded by Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i thought this was supposed to be a positive thread, specifically for wp7 ? it seems like just another comparison thread, or a "but we're doing good stuff now too!" thread.
anyway, i like the OP's idea of being a positive promoter. you may find it easiest to just start a youtube channel with your mission stated, and provide good tips, avoiding buzzwords, all while filtering the negative. people relate to a video demonstration of capabilities so very well.
good luck

brummiesteven said:
I had a G1 when it was first released and upgraded to a Desire. In my opinion, this is why WP7 will do better than Android has...
Peoples Reactions:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is. The only reason why Android has been successful up to now (in the UK at least) is because people want a smartphone with apps. 90% of the people I know who have an Android device had no idea what Android was before they bought the phone (and some still don't really understand). Google do little to no marketing.
Soon people will walk into a shop looking for a HTC AND be further persuaded by Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i've not seen a 'you have htc' comment, once.
here, in the southeastern US, people ask "Is that a google phone ?". associating google + phone = awesome; is what it seems to be. at family/friend gatherings, i have yet to see a wp7 device. the wp6.x holdouts that i've personally known have changed to iphone or more commonly, android. phone envy ? i dunno, possibly. it seems more than anything the young folks i run into -know- the iphone from 30 feet away, know the android devices from 10 feet away, and know wp7 is still beta ware. i'm sorry, but that's the impression the young folks have here.
that being said, the older (than me) folks tend to gravitate to iphones. the large, easily read/understood apps and icons seem to attract them, along with the ease of use with their newish apple desktops. at physical therapy a few weeks ago, one gentleman was commenting about a recipe his aunt emailed him. on his phone. then he facetime'd her, and showed her the exercises that were going on. gimmicky ? i think not. i questioned him about android, wp7, and who made his phone. he didn't care, he just wanted "something that works very well, and doesn't require calling his nephew to fix."
that kind of attitude is what i'm seeing, here. people really don't -care- what the device is, what it runs, or who makes the software. all they want is a device that is mature, easily used, and easily maintained.
word-of-mouth is definitely in my neck o the woods(order of popularity/importance):
iphone
android (google phone more commonly known)
other
wp7 isn't on the radar. at all. it needs a ton of marketing, the current 'really' ads are funny, sharp, and true to life. what they -don't- do is show the phone. iphone ads on the other hand, show the phone (speeded up of course) doing what it does. android phones, show what they do. the wp7 commercials (which i love) point out the flaws of people, not the positives of the phone. we -all know- that people text and drive, are distracted everywhere in life by their phones. what we don't know is how the windows idea is going to solve this. SHOW IT !
hopefully this can be read, understood and not taken as fanboy bashing. it's very difficult for people to read a comment that isn't complete praise for a product and agree usually.

brummiesteven said:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting-- guess MS has done a much better job marketing WP7 in the UK than the US. The WP7 ads are on TV, but in NY I haven't come across anyone outside of techie circles who's aware of WP7 (awareness seems on par with Windows Mobile -- which is basically none -- whereas Android (which, as ohgood mentioned, is often known as "the Google phone") is almost approaching iPhone mindshare now). I'm the only WP7 owner I know of (and now the only WM owner as well-- everyone else switched to iPhones or Android handsets).
On the retail front, most WP7 displays I've seen at AT&T stores are hidden in the corner, and T-Mobile shops just have the HD7 on display along with the HD2 and a million Android phones, so it's pretty hidden (interestingly the HD7 is still in stock everywhere in retail, unlike even the HD2, which sold out almost immediately).

ohgood said:
i've not seen a 'you have htc' comment, once.
here, in the southeastern US, people ask "Is that a google phone ?". associating google + phone = awesome; is what it seems to be. at family/friend gatherings, i have yet to see a wp7 device. the wp6.x holdouts that i've personally known have changed to iphone or more commonly, android. phone envy ? i dunno, possibly. it seems more than anything the young folks i run into -know- the iphone from 30 feet away, know the android devices from 10 feet away, and know wp7 is still beta ware. i'm sorry, but that's the impression the young folks have here.
that being said, the older (than me) folks tend to gravitate to iphones. the large, easily read/understood apps and icons seem to attract them, along with the ease of use with their newish apple desktops. at physical therapy a few weeks ago, one gentleman was commenting about a recipe his aunt emailed him. on his phone. then he facetime'd her, and showed her the exercises that were going on. gimmicky ? i think not. i questioned him about android, wp7, and who made his phone. he didn't care, he just wanted "something that works very well, and doesn't require calling his nephew to fix."
that kind of attitude is what i'm seeing, here. people really don't -care- what the device is, what it runs, or who makes the software. all they want is a device that is mature, easily used, and easily maintained.
word-of-mouth is definitely in my neck o the woods(order of popularity/importance):
iphone
android (google phone more commonly known)
other
wp7 isn't on the radar. at all. it needs a ton of marketing, the current 'really' ads are funny, sharp, and true to life. what they -don't- do is show the phone. iphone ads on the other hand, show the phone (speeded up of course) doing what it does. android phones, show what they do. the wp7 commercials (which i love) point out the flaws of people, not the positives of the phone. we -all know- that people text and drive, are distracted everywhere in life by their phones. what we don't know is how the windows idea is going to solve this. SHOW IT !
hopefully this can be read, understood and not taken as fanboy bashing. it's very difficult for people to read a comment that isn't complete praise for a product and agree usually.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There then seems to be a massive division between the US (and I assume) the Rest of the World (or at least the UK/Europe).
Over here hardly anybody knows what Android is. We have no little to no android advertisements.
The major problem with Google is they don't seem to want to advertise themselves, am I correct here? U.S. Advertisements are done by Verizon/Maunfacturers etc etc?
Manufacturers do advertise their phones over here but none of them mention that the phones have android. The samsung adverts have the android robot in them but they don't really explain them. HTC adverts don't mention android at all (they just have the "you" campain).
There are a few things. The CarphoneWarehouse (mobile phone store) has started advertising android instore but this doesn't extend to TV or billboards etc. The G1 had minor "With Google" stamps on it's adverts but most people I know assumed this just meant it came with Google Maps, Google Search etc and had nothing to do with the OS.
When Networks (Carriers) get android phones they may promote them instore but this will be for the phones themselves and nothing on them running Android.
Compare this to WP7:
- Adverts on TV All the time (They might not be the best, but they're there at least)
- Massive billboard adverts, showing the phones "This changes everything Gizmodo Quote".
- o2 promoting the HD7 specifically highlighting that it's a Windows Phone
- Orange doing the same with the Omnia and Mozart
- Product Placement (see http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...0089751101228_525696227_7296354_3969070_n.jpg)
Over here hardly anyone knows what Android is and it really used to piss me off how Google did no advertising whatsoever.
To the OP: Apologies that I took this post offtopic, I'm going to contact a Mod now and ask them if they will split the marketing discussion into a new topic.

Thumbs up here also. I've known about the differences between all the O/S and WP7, I actually came from 6.5. I brought one home, and the wife almost immediately said, go back and get me one too.
When I am using the phone in public places, sometimes I can feel people stretching to see what I am using. That usually generates a little conversation. About 70% say, "Oh, I've heard about those new Windows phones", or else they have seen the commercials and have not seen the phone. I tell them overall, this is a great system now, but not without its drawbacks (namely no custom ringtones.. and a few other things that will be addressed in the near future). Not the same old MS products. Go out and get one.

I am heartened to see so many positive comments, I may take up the earlier suggestion abou showing off some features of wp7 on YouTube

Android could be killed off by suppliers

Found this interesting Article on Fudzilla regarding how Android could be killed off by the suppliers of the phones. Figured I would share
http://www.fudzilla.com/mobiles/item/21611-android-could-be-killed-off-by-suppliers

Nice read but those publishers are idiots. The only way android will be killed of is if apple takes over the world and burns down google
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App

I pretty much summed up the article that if, Google doesn't take tighter control of how the suppliers are updating the phones, and if Google themselves do not ease up on releasing updates, then it might drive people away from Android phones due to the lack of support.

Twoddle.
At last report (that I know of), 300,000 people a day were activating new Android phones. I'm gonna guess here, but I reckon about 90% of those people don't give a monkeys about updated ROMs and new features. They don't understand enough about their phones to care. (Not an insult - just a statement.)
They'll keep their phone for the next 12/18/24 months and then get a nice new shiny one with the same OS cos it'll remember their contacts and they can download the same apps again.
Anyone that's in the other 10% know exactly how to modify the phone to suit their needs, and will only buy another phone because of the hardware. They know full well they can put whatever OS and apps on there they want.
For every bunch of people that leave Android to go iPhone, there'll be an equally sized bunch of people that leave iPhone to go Android. Change the OS names in that last sentence for other OSs to complete the story.
Analysts don't know squat. They're paid to make predictions that are less founded in reality than astrology. Besides, you can't be an analyst without anal.

Well said and very true
johncmolyneux said:
Twoddle.
At last report (that I know of), 300,000 people a day were activating new Android phones. I'm gonna guess here, but I reckon about 90% of those people don't give a monkeys about updated ROMs and new features. They don't understand enough about their phones to care. (Not an insult - just a statement.)
They'll keep their phone for the next 12/18/24 months and then get a nice new shiny one with the same OS cos it'll remember their contacts and they can download the same apps again.
Anyone that's in the other 10% know exactly how to modify the phone to suit their needs, and will only buy another phone because of the hardware. They know full well they can put whatever OS and apps on there they want.
For every bunch of people that leave Android to go iPhone, there'll be an equally sized bunch of people that leave iPhone to go Android. Change the OS names in that last sentence for other OSs to complete the story.
Analysts don't know squat. They're paid to make predictions that are less founded in reality than astrology. Besides, you can't be an analyst without anal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

A majority of customers don't care about updating the firmware of the phone. If it works, they won't complain. If it doesn't work, they'll bring it back for a warranty repair or simply get a new phone.

johncmolyneux said:
Twoddle.
At last report (that I know of), 300,000 people a day were activating new Android phones. I'm gonna guess here, but I reckon about 90% of those people don't give a monkeys about updated ROMs and new features. They don't understand enough about their phones to care. (Not an insult - just a statement.)
They'll keep their phone for the next 12/18/24 months and then get a nice new shiny one with the same OS cos it'll remember their contacts and they can download the same apps again.
Anyone that's in the other 10% know exactly how to modify the phone to suit their needs, and will only buy another phone because of the hardware. They know full well they can put whatever OS and apps on there they want.
For every bunch of people that leave Android to go iPhone, there'll be an equally sized bunch of people that leave iPhone to go Android. Change the OS names in that last sentence for other OSs to complete the story.
Analysts don't know squat. They're paid to make predictions that are less founded in reality than astrology. Besides, you can't be an analyst without anal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely right.
On the other hand, i'm right outside that 10% bunch, but i'm just 17 and if i **** up my phone it won't be so good for me. I rooted, but i guess i am dumb enough not to know terminals and flashing and pushing stuff here and there
Anyhow- Android won't be killed. That's like when they said Linux was to be killed off in the early 2000's because Windows machines were supplied with an X amount of memory (about a 100mb extra than those running a distro)

Won't happen I mean come on what you think is the alternative? They want to pay the license? What happens if upgrade comes? who you think will pick up RIM? lol they are dead who else iOS? Sorry thats for iPanzy and who use that come on now, only other alternative is WM.
Also who wants to fight big Google? You think they will let it go easy? They can buy the ****ing company out and change the decision if they cared to just to send single message. Also then you have the user who can and is doing what they want hence you are on XDA? F the carrier support thats like saying you are bound to software hence your PC?
But the biggest problem with mobile world is the hardware which is not actually openly shared as opposed to computing world, where one can actually code the driver for support. BTW voddles your last sentence didn't make sense what so ever take it from someone who been using Slackware since it was created.

I for myself isn't that impressed of Android anymore.
Having used an X10 Mini since May 2010 (now 2.1 and some extra updates)
Wanted the Mini for the Android Hype, Spotify music streaming and smallness.
Love the phone still but getting more and more angered of lack of decent software/apps
Hate all the Android keyboards(not because of it's tiny on a 2.6" screen) but the lack of arrow keys and stupidity behavior (like unable to mark text and enter new).
Search function is limited too (In Market and others) It's impossible to editing an old search, you have to enter everything again.
Also getting more and more irritated on the Google in general.
Wanna have a new non Win, IOS, Bada, Android or Nokia stuff. Phone OS. Now.
Will not follow your guys inte 2.2 or 2.3

Journalism just seems to go down the toilet in the highly competitive virtual world of the internet.
"While HTC appears to be ahead of the game at getting new updates to uses, some outfits, particularly Motorola are developing a jolly bad name for themselves. You could upgrade yourself but he problem is getting your paws on unlocked boot loaders. Motorola's upcoming phones have locked bootloaders."
Locked bootloaders have nothing to do with official updates.
"However it looks to us like Google is going to need to put its foot down fast before the suppliers start killing off its operating system. The last thing people want is to get an Android phone and find it can't do something that has been advertised because some phone maker could not be bothered upgrading."
Put its foot down on a free OS? Ads go out advertising that all Android phones support roms? That all Android phone are upgradeable to the latest, greatest Android OS?
The whole article looks to be written by someone attempting to be sensational but really has no clue.
I remember when Android was new and you had all these manufacturers "skinning" Android. I was worried that a user may confuse a skin with the primary OS and incorrectly give credit or blame to that skin. People seem to love Sense UI and hate Motoblur. You impression of Android could vary depending on if you used an HTC vs a Motorola. That clearly did not happen.

Blåburk said:
I for myself isn't that impressed of Android anymore.
Having used an X10 Mini since May 2010 (now 2.1 and some extra updates)
Wanted the Mini for the Android Hype, Spotify music streaming and smallness.
Love the phone still but getting more and more angered of lack of decent software/apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
'Lack of decent apps'?
Know why there seems to be a lack here?
You live in Sweden.
Last.fm doesn't work, Goggles doesn't work, Quickoffice doesn't work, trillian is probably locked out too...
Why didn't you get a netbook anyway?
Mine cost the same as the x10 mini did in May 2010.
Hate all the Android keyboards(not because of it's tiny on a 2.6" screen) but the lack of arrow keys and stupidity behavior (like unable to mark text and enter new).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that's what you wanted when you got the phone, why didn't you turn it in right away?
Yeah, they have arrow keys - on the ones with a sliding keyboard. Idiot.
Also getting more and more irritated on the Google in general.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
'The Google'? What does Google have to do with your Sony Ericsson phone?

Never gonna happen.
ksizzle9 said:
Nice read but those publishers are idiots. The only way android will be killed of is if apple takes over the world and burns down google
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App

Everything said here is somewhat true and somewhat false. We all have our opinions, we all have different expectations from our phones...
What i don't understand is, and i say this from a developer perspective, why would any mobile device manufacturer, like Sony, lock out their devices? Same goes for Apple etc etc
I mean, i think far more ppl would actually buy their products if they know that they have a open device and that it can run on all carriers. I mean, i actually bought my 1st iPhone just because of the fact that someone made an unlock tool so u could use it outside of AT&T networks...
As for the OS side, Android wont die ofc, and i believe its a good thing that Google publishes updates to it so fast. This means they are really dedicated to the project and that they really care for developers so they can make much better apps, with more features and capabilities.

voddles said:
'Lack of decent apps'?
Know why there seems to be a lack here?
You live in Sweden.
Last.fm doesn't work, Goggles doesn't work, Quickoffice doesn't work, trillian is probably locked out too...
Why didn't you get a netbook anyway?
Mine cost the same as the x10 mini did in May 2010.
If that's what you wanted when you got the phone, why didn't you turn it in right away?
Yeah, they have arrow keys - on the ones with a sliding keyboard. Idiot.
'The Google'? What does Google have to do with your Sony Ericsson phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for sharing your IQ level with the world, hopes you will be able to eat with a spoon sometimes in the future.
Just one remark a phone made by SE but using the Google Android do have a somethings with the Google to do, doesn't it.
The rest of what you wrote is not worth comments.
Sorry for upsetting you

When do you think an android OS for desktops will be created?

Blåburk said:
Thanks for sharing your IQ level with the world, hopes you will be able to eat with a spoon sometimes in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL now thats comedy.
I have to somewhat agree with you about the virtual keyboard. Now coming from HD2 which has the best stock keyboard I have ever seen. The arrow key and able to select via drag is best when you typing but on AOSP the whole idea is retarded. I can still type every fast but not fast as I once was on HD2 then again where is that whole 4.3" out there.

Nice read but those publishers are idiots.

I personally am always going to be sticking with HTC. They usually update most of there phones and even if they dont someone will have rooted it and just made a <insert android version here> rom. Plus even if no one can root it i still love Htc Sense and it looks 100x better than Motoblur or whatever Sony uses.

Blåburk said:
Thanks for sharing your IQ level with the world, hopes you will be able to eat with a spoon sometimes in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now now children... please lighten up, much more important things in this world to be getting upset or to "fight" over... honestly...
a subs0nic G2 bass cann0n blast0id via andr0id

so true.....only 10% of peopel like us know what we really want to do with our phones....

Newsflash: Android Is Not Perfect

This is just a PSA to all you vicious Android fanboys on this forum that hound anyone who asks the question "what phone should I get", especially when one of those options includes an iOS device or a WP7 device.
So let me get this started. I love Android. But Android is not perfect. Take a deep breath, and say it with me again, out loud.
"Android is not perfect." Was that too hard? If so the following explanation is for you.
Ever since Android first came out, people were hailing it as the iPhone killer. But in reality? It's really not. It may be getting there, and may be getting there quickly, but that's not that point.
It may be a surprise to many of you, but there are actually other human beings outside of XDA that use smartphones. Human beings that are not interested in rooting their phones or spending a lot of time completely customizing them or pushing them to the limit. These human beings want their phones to work when they need them, and that's all. Whether these phones are iOS, Android, or Windows Mobile/7 phones is completely irrelevant to them.
Except, it actually is. But see, not in the way most of you seem to think it is.
People shop for phones nowadays because the have an end they need to reach and they need the means to get to that end. Whether it's something as simple as checking an email message or quenching a thirst to play a game, they take into consideration what is the quickest, most hassle-free way to do this. This requirement is not because they are stupid. Most XDA users seem to think that anyone off XDA just buys iPhones because they are uneducated about "the true power of Android" and all that jazz. Guess what? That's not the case.
Yes. Here at XDA, we can do a lot with our phones. We root them, we build custom ROMs for them, we use features that were locked before, or get versions of our OS that aren't out yet.
But please be damn sure you understand that we are the minority. We will always be the minority. Your experience here doesn't define the mobile landscape, it only improves your personal experience with your phone. Just because you took a few hours to root your phone, find the perfect custom ROM, and settle down with it doesn't make the average Joe who just bought an iPhone (because it does what he wants easily and has all the apps he likes) a stupid user.
Here is the meat of this newsflash; Android wouldn't be here if it wasn't for iOS. (Going further, iOS wouldn't be there without Windows Mobile, and etc etc etc until we reached the very first man who asked 'why can't I see my email from my phone'). Apple took a chance on what people wanted, and realized they had something. They built an OS that was based on the ideals of OS X; simple, straight-forward, good looking, and well received. And so began the App and Data revolution. All of a sudden, the idea of having mobile data became real. These wonderful delicious little things called "apps" made the mobile world much more exciting than it had even been before. And so Apple hit a goldmine, and the mobile landscape had been painted. These apps were well-designed, fun, informative, useful, and people liked them so much, they started to buy paid apps. Apple knows how to market to people, and there success showed.
So then. Android.
Android was birthed out of the idea that Google could cash in on this app world. You may think the intentions were noble, with the idea that it was some pipe dream in the same way linux was; completely open mobile platform. After all, if Apple could have the success with a closed system, Google obviously could rock the world with an open one.
But it's not. Android, or at least what most people come to think of as Android these days, is not "open". It's open to phone manufacturers, and carriers, but that's it. It' snot open to the end user. Why else do we have locked down features, closed-source OEM skins that hinder future firmware upgrades? Why else do we have carrier-controlled Market restrictions? Why do some phones not ship with developer tools, or the ability to install from unknown sources?
Let me be frank. I love Android, but Android is a mess. It's a mess of a bunch of wonderful ideas that would have shined like nothing else in the perfect world, but a mess that didn't anticipate a simple fact; businesses like to make money.
The truth of the matter is that we don't have freedom with Android. Every little part of it has a restriction we need to bypass. Do you buy an expensive high end phone, or a cheaper low-end phone? Will you still be able to play those cool games on that low end phone? Will it get software updates? Is it safe from malware? Buying an Android phone has become the same as trying to buy a Windows PC.
It suffers from the same problem that Microsoft does when compared to Apple's line of computers. Apple builds its hardware AND its software, so they interface with complete precision and function. People with iPhones don't need to worry about security updates, or whether their phone will be obsolete. Apple may release a new phone every year, but the point is that those phones are made to last, both in terms of hardware and software. They even went the next step further and made the iPod touch, which gave phone users who weren't ready for smartphones a taste of what it was like.
My Sprint Hero came out on October 11th, 2009. The iPhone 3GS came out in June of the same year. Both were priced around the same amount, but what stands out to me the most when I think back to when I tested both that year? The fact it took Google this long to make an operating system which took ages to mature enough to be used by HTC to make a phone that STILL could not even give me a smooth web browser, something that the very first iPhone was able to do. Games on the Hero sucked in comparison to the 3D games that were playable on the iPhone.
Now then, Android smartphone hardware has advanced to a significant level, but the point of this whole rant is that Google has always been following in Apple's footsteps in the mobile world, and it's going to be that way for some time.
Be a bit humble about the begginings of Android and what it's become, and for f***'s sake, be a bit mature than just saying "LOLOLOL APPLE SUCKS GG GET ANDROID".
Because it's the rest of the world outside of XDA that defines the success of these mobile platforms, because I hate to say this, but you and I are not part of that outside world of mobile phone users, and we never will be.
The truth is, no one can really say what the "perfect" mobile OS is. All we can do is say what works best for us or what we prefer, but when we state it as fact, as though it's not arguable, that's when we become the fanboys that we so dearly hate. Just keep that in mind.
Opinions welcome, fanboyism from either side not wanted at all. Congrats on finishing this post.

Excellent post. Would read again.

Great things said there. I can see a point in it. But still, I don't either see Ios higher as Android since Ios is a mess too. Let me just take this simple statement. Music on a Ipod/Iphone needs to be converted from the computer to the device, you can't random download a song(on the device) from Internet and play it. Same as the file exploring.. if you want to search for a file, you find a file in some folder like: im/af/on/ar/qr, or just some folders which are messy, and the file types are unknown for the computer. All those small things give me the excuse to stay at Windows Mobile. Simply cause we can download music files and play it, simply cause there is great development on it, simply cause it can be customized how we want it.

Cool story bro
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

d12unk13astard said:
Cool story bro
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good job. That must have taken some serious thought to come up with.

This is something I 100% agree with.
When I had a Samsung Moment, I had problems galore with it. Keyboard wouldn't type, horrible support, and the big network lockup. Mind you, a network lockup where you can't call out to anyone is against FCC laws. But just to get some type of damn support for the thing, I almost had to root it. And I'm sorry, but I shouldn't have to depend on an online community for support for a phone when the carrier and manufacturer of the phone should be doing that. What the hell is the point in buying the phone and paying damn near $70 a month if I can't use the damn thing?
Let's also talk about performance of the Moment and how unoptimized it was. The Moment uses the same SoC found in the Iphone 2g, and 3g. The only difference, stock 2g and 3g SoC is 600 mhz, clocked down to about 422 mhz for battery, while the Moment was 800 mhz. Both arm11 cpu cores. The Iphone 2g and 3g despite having almost half the clocked frequency of the Moment, was smoother and had actual hardware support and acceleration. Even this day, Samsung still does not have proper hardware support for the SoC being used in the Moment, Intercept, Transform, Spica, etc etc.
If done right, Android is pretty awesome I'll admit. But if I want a phone to work, I'll get something that actually works.

big advantage of android, but also a weakness:
it works well on many devices, but its not optimised for the spezific hardware of each phone...

gosualex said:
big advantage of android, but also a weakness:
it works well on many devices, but its not optimised for the spezific hardware of each phone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good understanding

I love android because I love to tinker. Nothing could ever change my mind short of the os aging. I will say this flaws or not I refuse to give apple my money. So it's either wp7 or android.
My words to live buy if I can't hack it I don't want it. Just my 2cents
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I would agree iPhones support is a lot longer no network changes added, updates can brick the phones though.
Android need some love. Fragmentation. Networks slow to update. Ui 's being to sluggish to update the phone to higher levels.
All android phones should be aosp no extras from makers or networks.
Love my cm7/miui.us phone but most people would want to flash it or know how to. They would just think might as well get an iPhone.
Just my feelings. I own apple computers. Custom built pcs android phones had iPhones I still use an iPod touch in the kitchen as you can get the best speaker docks for them. Use what works best for the situation.
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Android security warning !!
I think android is the best system, but its very insecure if you let it on stock and don't secure it, root it, get rid of some apps and optimize it.
Did you know that a normal app with all permissions can get all your data?
-gps location
-contacts
-logs
-screenshots
-hidden camerashots
-sms/mms
-emails
-photos
-etc
BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THIS IS FACT !!!
There was a test in germany, where a developer made a app with all the rights to do the things above and send them hidden in the backround to a specified server to that he had access. So he could read and see all the things above and it was even updating immidiatly after a new sms or something came in and the testuser who installed it had no clue at all and was shocked when they told it to her.
The App itself was just making photos with a black censor stripe in the eyes and it seemed that it never could do that, but all the real action is going on in the backround.
By the way, he sayd it was very easy and many apps could do that and most of them really do that.
And what I know, many of you don't know or don't care and spread all your information to some companys that like to have them alot. And they allways want more.
Maybe you should spread this information by quoting this post or linking to it, because many people don't like to be ripped of their information.
Or do you like it, when someone is standing close to you and listens all what you say to your friends, when you have a private conversation ? I think not!
check out my signature also.
and be safe!
edit: i think i should post this as a new thread!

Great post, good read!!

Hard to say any mobile OS is perfect. But the world of mobile OS is developing quickly in recent years.
Haven't played extensively with Android and IOS. Currenly, I still think IOS is more polish. Android definitely have a lot of features and I am looking forward to where they take the OS to in the future. It seems like it's an OS that has a lot of support and has had to "grow up" really rapidly.

I actually agrer with everything in this post. Fact is the best technology in the world is technology that is stable, works, and allows the user to complete what ever task is needed.
Last night it was decided my wife and I are switching to verizon why? Cause the wife wants IOS and I am more partial to android and BB and thats the only carrier that has all 3.
Now to add on what was already said I think google needs to pick one manufacture purchase them then do exactly what apple does marry the hardware amd software together to get rid of what can be a problematic OS simply cause with some manufactures android is worse then on others.
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(•.•) said:
I think android is the best system, but its very insecure if you let it on stock and don't secure it, root it, get rid of some apps and optimize it.
Did you know that a normal app with all permissions can get all your data?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You give apps on an iphone or WM phone permissions to do these things too right, so this is a more general problem in the new mobile world...
BTW, I like you're post LiquidSolstice, you could almost call it a fact, it's not that the one is better than the other. It's just that they are different and the majority of people likes easy and simple...

I agree with alot of what LS mentions in the first post. My wife is one of those who could really care less about rooting, overclocking, mem management, or even what version of Android she is using for that matter. She just wants to be able to send that text without the keyboard "hicupping", or to make that phone call without the dialer lagging, etc. I like Android, but I don't like Google's.. well let's say "less than kosher" business practices and corporate involvements. I think a big point to remember is that there will always be people like us that get a huge kick out of toying with electronics. For some, it's a hobby, for others, a career. With that being said, there will also always be those doofies that get on sites like this one and annoy the living crap out of you. Everything needs to be taken in stride, and though there are those who appear to be clueless on a subject, always remember that we all have to learn somehow. Knowledge is not obtained through osmosis.

Android feels like a permanent beta. I prefer iOS for simple tasks plusSbsettings is unmatched. WP7 seems more like a feature phone, it doesn't tell you 'I'm smart.'

I mostly agree
I don't think the problem with android is really the fact that more than one company is involved in developing phones for android. The problem is that those companies, (OEMs & carriers) have been given way to much freedom to decide not only what processor & RAM the phone would have but to put their "stamp" on android. I think the blame for that partially falls on Google for not putting a stop to OEMs & carriers putting their bloatware on phones. Google has been asked multiple times to do something about the "fragmentation" issue & they've refused, so ultimately they are partly responsible for the "mess" android has become.

tsaxda said:
I don't think the problem with android is really the fact that more than one company is involved in developing phones for android. The problem is that those companies, (OEMs & carriers) have been given way to much freedom to decide not only what processor & RAM the phone would have but to put their "stamp" on android. I think the blame for that partially falls on Google for not putting a stop to OEMs & carriers putting their bloatware on phones. Google has been asked multiple times to do something about the "fragmentation" issue & they've refused, so ultimately they are partly responsible for the "mess" android has become.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, carrier "bloat" --I put that in quotes because the current three major skins bring much needed features to Android (whether or not the execution is done well or not is a different argument)-- isn't quite what's killing it, it's the time spent optimizing the hardware for Android.
Android gets slapped on as many devices as possible and then sold as a low end affordable smartphone, and that's the issue, but that's the essence of Android at the same time.

ZeGuitarist said:
Excellent post. Would read again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 Outstanding post. Completely agree.

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