Related
I had sent an E-Mail yesterday to [email protected] and had recieved a phone call back. We can contact SPRINT in this way to get them to really hear what we have to say and ask. I had spoke with the VP and had sugested that SPRINT contact HTC to have them design the HD2 to also have a sliding keyboard. All SPRINT has to do is put in the request because their customers "US" are asking for that feature to be added to the phone. If just one person asks 1 question, then it might be heard. But if 10,000 people or 100,000 people ask the same question. It will definatly be heard and then answered. If we want SPRINT to STOP CRIPPELING the phones, then let's all ask the same question. If we want SPRINT to advertise about the TP2, then let's all ask. If more people knew that there is a phone that can give the IPHONE a beating, then all we have to do is make SPRINT stand up and listen to what their customers have to say. So far to date, there has not been one advertisement for the TP2 in any way shape or form to the masses. Sure there have been some reviews on the phone. You will only know about it if you read that perticular magizine or go to the right web site. So, agian let's all send an E-Mail to [email protected] and speak up
How is Sprint crippling their phones?
I definitely do NOT want an HD2 with a keyboard. Since Sprint is in NO WAY getting the HD2 (at least for a while), I would like to petition them to get a phone without a keyboard that is otherwise equal to or better than the TP2. While we are petitioning, how about making it free...
gd761 said:
I had sent an E-Mail yesterday to [email protected] and had recieved a phone call back. We can contact SPRINT in this way to get them to really hear what we have to say and ask. I had spoke with the VP and had sugested that SPRINT contact HTC to have them design the HD2 to also have a sliding keyboard. All SPRINT has to do is put in the request because their customers "US" are asking for that feature to be added to the phone. If just one person asks 1 question, then it might be heard. But if 10,000 people or 100,000 people ask the same question. It will definatly be heard and then answered. If we want SPRINT to STOP CRIPPELING the phones, then let's all ask the same question. If we want SPRINT to advertise about the TP2, then let's all ask. If more people knew that there is a phone that can give the IPHONE a beating, then all we have to do is make SPRINT stand up and listen to what their customers have to say. So far to date, there has not been one advertisement for the TP2 in any way shape or form to the masses. Sure there have been some reviews on the phone. You will only know about it if you read that perticular magizine or go to the right web site. So, agian let's all send an E-Mail to [email protected] and speak up
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TaurusBullba said:
How is Sprint crippling their phones?
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I am not sure what exactly gd761 is talking about. I do know, though, that all CDMA versions of the phone (including Verizon's) do not have an FM Tuner in there. For whatever reason, it is sacrificed for some of the CDMA hardware. Though there are ways to get Radio, just not through normal FM/AM.
The other thing gd761 may be referencing is the fact that nearly EVERY VERSION OF THIS PHONE with other carriers (not all, but most), were released with WinMo 6.5 and a newer (and Sense-like) TouchFlo. For whatever reason, Sprint seems to want to delay it and only says that it will be released "early 2010." I spoke with a representative today who agreed it is ludicrous that nearly every, if not all, carriers now have the upgrade (or at least their form of it) and sprint is dragging their heels.
To tell the truth, I am not sure what gd761 is referring to. I do share the resentment, at least on the upgrade thing. Who knows?
I agree, though, on one point... I do believe that we should, as their customers, their paychecks, let our opinions be heard... and not just on their web forum or through customer service. It is obvious that we need to let them know what we want, and, if need be, bypass the normal channels and go for the bigwigs.
I'm not calling for a revolt, I am however, tired of hearing one person after another complain about service or not having the best phone (in their opinion) and rant and rave..... AND THEN DO NOTHING ABOUT IT (but complain some more). If you ahev enough time to be on here and B!+ch about it, you have enough time to write a letter to someone about it. It's a rare day if the powers that be in our respective phone companies (Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, etc) scan these forums for advice and ideas, at least not in depth. Even if they did, it would be much longer then just going to the source.
Think about it, everyone.
I've seen plenty of tp2 commercials since at least November.
"If more people knew that there is a phone that can give the IPHONE a beating, then all we have to do is make SPRINT stand up and listen to what their customers have to say."
Not convinced HTC will completely redesign a platform because a carrier requests it. If you really want an iPhone killer tho, Droid Does. The TP2 certainly has a more refined slider keyboard, and the tilt is nice. Have to say I like the glass capacitive screen better tho. The real advantage the Droid has right now is a separate GPU. It really is a noticeable improvement over the TP2 performance-wise. I was anxious to see what HTC did with the Nexus 1, but lack of a physical keyboard is a deal killer for me, Snapdragon or no.
I have tried to use Andriod and Palm and don't like the look or feel of them. I know that we all have our own opinions about all of the different devices out on the market. What we should be doing is not complaining about what we think individually, but all want from the Carriers. these forums are not you and me againt one another, but us the customesr to share info and to try to get the Carriers to listed to ALL of us, not just ONE of us. I want a keyboard and you don't want a keyboard. These things tell the Carriers that their customers want one with a keyboard and one without a keyboard. We want one feature or another, or one OS or another. this will let the Carriers know that you want a specific device with specific features with a certain device. I might want exactly the same thing with all the same features, but just with a different OS, or feature. If the Carriers start hearing this, then when they negotiate with the Manufacturs of the devices for them to carry them, they will say that their customers are asking for this or that, and have the devices tweaked or redesigned. This is how it is done. Some people think that we the customers don't influence in any way how these devices are designed or what OS is installed on them. There are a lot of deciding factures that go into these devices that most peolpe do NOT realize or want to accept as being fact. This is just the way that things are. But again, let's agree to disagree and tell the Carriers what our personal desires are. They weally do listen, but not to just one voice, but to many voices.
Take it with a grain of salt. But it sounds mildly legit.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=913045
edit: actually i call b.s.
whiteguypl said:
edit: actually i call b.s.
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Why? I have no firm opinion one way or the other, but just saying "bull****" really doesn't mean much unless you're playing the card game.
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
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Click to collapse
Open source doesn't mean free.
I'm inclined to believe it. It makes more sense than trying to say they have been testing it for months. I've had my captivate for 6 months, almost 5 of them running FroYo thanks to the awesome devs here. Has the froyo always been stable and fast? No. But the devs don't work for Samsung with all the resouces, they are doing it in their spare time. I would bet Samsung had a fairly stable, almost complete version of FroYo ready before the phone released.
I am really getting tempted by the Atrix, apart from the awesome hardware and webtop app, Motorola devices get updates. But, they sound harder to flash custom ROMs, so its a give and take. Based on what I saw on the CES coverage, going with only official software may not be so bad.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
Makes no sense. Regardless if Samsung charges for feature updates or not, terms of the upgrades would have been set between carrier and Samsung prior to the first handset even being made. Thus outside of any major surprises (which there are none here) the carrier knows from day one what upgrades will be offered, when and at what cost. It's not like Samsung turned around weeks after the devices shipped and said, "Hey. That Froyo upgrade is gonna cost ya, buddy!" That would have been known long before contacts were signed.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Even if thus is true, both AT&T and Samsung have all ready made too many mistakes. Both will lose some business. Yes it won't be enough to hurt either but maybe all the pestering will make them rethink their business models. Probably not. My last Samschmuck phone on AT&T for sure.
Sent from a phone somewhere in the universe
ianwood said:
Makes no sense. Regardless if Samsung charges for feature updates or not, terms of the upgrades would have been set between carrier and Samsung prior to the first handset even being made. Thus outside of any major surprises (which there are none here) the carrier knows from day one what upgrades will be offered, when and at what cost. It's not like Samsung turned around weeks after the devices shipped and said, "Hey. That Froyo upgrade is gonna cost ya, buddy!" That would have been known long before contacts were signed.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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This is the same point I tried to make on the thread. While Samsung may have been the ones to state that Froyo would come to Galaxy S, it may be that the carrier(s) decided to balk on the 2.2 update due to extra cost as probably stipulated by whatever contract they negotiated with Samsung.
If Froyo is already on Canadian carriers' devices (officially) why not U.S. carriers. Something reeks here.
While Samsung should have kept their mouths shut about the update, I'm sure a part is being played by the American carriers here.
Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
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You are mixing up open source with free software. Ask Richard Stallman the difference
Also, I would imagine that they would not be paying Samsung for the software itself but more so the software development to tailor it to the carriers needs.
This sounds good in theory, but I think it has holes.
this would be the case for all phones on all carriers, but it isn't the same situation.
iphone updates are coming out all the time. With at&t subsidized out the butt on the iphone, I fail to believe they osu for all those updates.
I had a samsung blackjCk, and we went through the same thing with winmo, meanwhile other at&t phones got the updates.
Id have to say honestly in my personal opinion based from facts from an inside source... At&t is so obsessed with the iphone anything that costs them money or time that doesn't increase profits is going to be set on the backburner... Att has a time of year called "Iphone season" where they push the new versions and updates of the iphone to customers.... Seeing as how froyo itself was already released for almost every device on OTHER carriers and att has yet to push a single update aside from the eclaire update i doubt it will ever be coming.
Not to mention if anyone has noticed att removed ALOT of stuff from the captivates before they were able to ship them to customers... for example the third party apk allow button is completely gone from the stock phones due to att and their restrictions and the market having apps that just don't show up becuase of the way att wants to now start locking down phones like apple. (not trying to bash anyone or brands but from what ive seen from someone who loves to customize and believe anything i pay for is mine and i should be able to do as i wish with said product that's how it is in my eyes)
I think that since they have the rage over the iphones (another reason they try to sell them harder then any other phone is because of the "vast amount of accessories" ) it feels like they fell on the band wagon of the craze instead of actually worrying about ALL of their customers. It just seems like since iphone updates are pushed to phone and att doesnt have to deal with them, not to mention if the phone messes up it goes to an apple store and not att.
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released. As to the truth behind this, anyones guess is as good as mine. Just seems funny how No att phones have gotten the froyo update unless they've (the customer) installed it themselves.
I wouldn't be looking forward to any updates from what i've seen on my end.
A.VOID said:
This sounds good in theory, but I think it has holes.
this would be the case for all phones on all carriers, but it isn't the same situation.
iphone updates are coming out all the time. With at&t subsidized out the butt on the iphone, I fail to believe they osu for all those updates.
I had a samsung blackjCk, and we went through the same thing with winmo, meanwhile other at&t phones got the updates.
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AT&T has nothing to do with iPhone updates. Matter of fact, AT&T has nothing to do with iPhones at all, except sell them. All iPhone updates are done through iTunes and all iPhone support is handled by Apple. This is not a good comparison.
Even comparing WinMo doesn't really work. I had a Wizard on AT&T, and there was exactly one firmware update, even though there were other versions that were available later. Plus, Windows is not free and not based on open source code. So, carriers would expect to pay for updates with closed source operating systems.
Xaviorin said:
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released.
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If that were true, then Apple and AT&T would be facing some serious litigation. This is similar to the deals that Intel made with computer manufacturers, forcing them to slow leak AMD sales in order to sell more Intel chips. Intel paid quite a hefty fine and suffered a serious PR black eye. That type of practice stifles competition and is very, very illegal. So, I doubt that Apple and AT&T would even consider doing that.
Xaviorin said:
Id have to say honestly in my personal opinion based from facts from an inside source... At&t is so obsessed with the iphone anything that costs them money or time that doesn't increase profits is going to be set on the backburner... Att has a time of year called "Iphone season" where they push the new versions and updates of the iphone to customers.... Seeing as how froyo itself was already released for almost every device on OTHER carriers and att has yet to push a single update aside from the eclaire update i doubt it will ever be coming.
Not to mention if anyone has noticed att removed ALOT of stuff from the captivates before they were able to ship them to customers... for example the third party apk allow button is completely gone from the stock phones due to att and their restrictions and the market having apps that just don't show up becuase of the way att wants to now start locking down phones like apple. (not trying to bash anyone or brands but from what ive seen from someone who loves to customize and believe anything i pay for is mine and i should be able to do as i wish with said product that's how it is in my eyes)
I think that since they have the rage over the iphones (another reason they try to sell them harder then any other phone is because of the "vast amount of accessories" ) it feels like they fell on the band wagon of the craze instead of actually worrying about ALL of their customers. It just seems like since iphone updates are pushed to phone and att doesnt have to deal with them, not to mention if the phone messes up it goes to an apple store and not att.
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released. As to the truth behind this, anyones guess is as good as mine. Just seems funny how No att phones have gotten the froyo update unless they've (the customer) installed it themselves.
I wouldn't be looking forward to any updates from what i've seen on my end.
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Conspiracy theory much? Like someone said, your theories border on anti-competitive in practice. AT&T is also not so obsessed with the iPhone given how much they've diversified their smartphone portfolio in the past 9 months (+2 WebOS devices, +2 BlackBerrys, +3 Windows Phones, +5 Android devices).
I'm usually skeptical about these things, but this is about the only rumor that makes sense.
For those comparing it to the iphone, its like comparing oranges to apples. Apple pretty much takes care of everything on their side.At&t just peddles their product. Apple has a 400 person call center just for the iphone, next door to where I work.
Apple makes the hardware and creates the OS.
Samsung just makes hardware which is a good thing considering how bad their software engineers are at coding.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I'm more in the conspiracy theory side
Don't trust everything you read.
Thing about it deeply, what is more likely:
A Sammy employee risked his job, created an account just to create this post, and tell us the truth about the updates and how bad his employer is? seriously? What did he gain by doing this post? peace of mind? can he go to sleep now that he has revealed the truth of the US-only updates? Does really the Samsung employees care this much for only the US based users? This smells, and bad.
Now lets look at the conspiracy side. An AT&T employee notices our frustration against them. They see that seem to be more frustrated people are the non tech-savvy ones; that we got to admit they are more than us and represent a big number for them. On the other hand I bet they receive a gazillion calls from you guys on these subject.
Wouldn't be more likely than AT&T representative created that post to wash their hands and pass the blame to sammy? Isn't them who released a restricted phone and made a deal with Samsung saying that they will be in charge of this phone's updates? Samsungs cost in releasing an update of a phone that is almost equal to 6 other phones they released is null; whereas AT&T cost in updating their crap is high. Don't be blind. Carriers are the new tyrants. They will do anything in their power to get more money. If you could see what they are able to do in countries like mine you wont even doubt this. In my country of such a deal is made you can forget that you will ever get updates. There even is a carrier that, after 4 months passed that you have purchased a motorola's android based phone, charges you 10 uss monthly for MOTO BLUR, and this was written in the small print of the contract... seriously... I've seen carriers cancel their users contracts, saying they requested that, to bill them their contract-cancelation fee...
I could go on with this for pages... I've witnessed carriers lying, deceiving, and even more right in the people's face. If you want to check this, and know some spanish or use translators, just google "Claro hijos de puta" (sons of a...) or "claro estafa" (scam); both searches give more than 3 million results, and you wont imagine what you might find inside those pages...
This whole thing smells badly. And if I had to bet, I would say that post was made by a carrier to buy them time, or even to start making up an excuse so they wont ever release an update... after all, they would be the only ones that would benefit from such events...
I'm through waiting
This story was the final straw for me, whether it's true or not. I am tired of the drama and am no longer waiting for AT&T and/or Samsung to deliver what AT&T told me would happen when I bought the phone. If AT&T store staff said something incorrect it was corporate's fault for not guiding their staff correctly. I was told shortly Froyo was coming, but it never came. Samsung said on Twitter/Facebook we all would have Froyo last year. There is no excuse for what they have done, none. I've waded through the myriad of 3rd party ROMs and was leery of the leaked Froyo ones due to everyone seemed to have an issue here or there. The 9000 ROMs sounded exciting but came with issues I didn't want. I just want a working GPS and a stable phone, running Froyo, what I thought I was getting last summer.
Now that Rogers released a North American ROM and the talented coders have seized upon it, we seem to be approaching a new level of stability with Froyo. After reading up on the various Rogers ROM based images I installed Cognition (donation coming later tonight) and after 30 minutes of playing around, I am home with Froyo now. I am beyond tired of waiting for AT&T and/or Samsung to do the honorable thing for they are not honorable companies. I doubt another Samsung will grace my pocket and yet maybe it will be the 3rd party coders that will ultimately deliver what I have waited patiently for, for months. Wouldn't it be a wonderful environment if Samsung would just release the source to everything and let those out here, those infinitely more talented than Samsung staff, have access to the code they need to work pure magic.
Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
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polarbee said:
Open source doesn't mean free.
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Open source comes under GPL license. This isn't the one that is of cost, but the efforts involved in packing for a device, its extensive testing is what is costly.
In the most simplest of terms, the following people would be involved:
Business Team x 3 people
Development Team x 6 people
Testing/QA Team x 10 people
To take care of these people:
Project Manager x 1 person
Team Leads x 3 people (1 for each team)
Taking this to 23 people, to say the least.
On an average, if we pay each person say $ 50k for 6 months effort, it would be $ 50,000 x 23 = $ 1,150,000 i.e., $ 1.15 millions for 6 months.
Now see, this is only the minimal scale. For a phone so wide spread, I would assume a team of atleast 50 where managers charge more than 100-200k a year.
Now u see why Samsung doesn't wish to put this kind of money into a phone already sold, and is looking into marketing newer phones.
I think its all hoopla.
This "leak" of sensitive information on one of many android forums is only going to reach the eyes of a hand full of readers.
We (the brave souls wanting new updates for our gadgets and willing to hack them to get it) are very few in numbers compared to the vast amounts of consumers who own this phone, and usually don't give a hoot about a new update/upgrade for their phones ROM, IF they even know what the heck it is. They only care that their calls and texts go through, and they can browse the web on their lunch break.
The ONLY issue that most would care about is the GPS issues we have had. And I bet that AT&T, and Samsung have both received tens of thousands of customer complaints regarding Mr. Joe Average not being able to find his way on his family vacation. Again, we are but a small number compared to that. I would think that alone would motivate something to happen, at least an OTA update to fix the GPS issues. Nope.
So other than an intellectual debate on "why haves", and "why have nots" on a forum like this, there is nothing else this message could possibly accomplish.
The above thread, and this one will slowly slide down the thread list and be forgotten and nothing else will change.
The Bottom Line
Rumors aside, if it doesn't sell more phones, minutes or data plans and it can be avoided without seriously upsetting customers, they won't bother. Outside of our merry band of flash-a-holics, what percent of Captivate owners even know what Froyo is or care?
Also, judging by the JH7 OTA debacle, Samsung's OTA upgrade capability is decidedly unreliable. I'd bet that caused a mountain of returns. AT&T HATES returns!!! Costs them a fortune. The cost of paying Samsung for a Froyo upgrade is a drop in the bucket by comparison. So a bad OTA system is worse than none at all. If AT&T can get away with avoiding it, they will.
I think our best hope is to make A LOT of noise! Complain to Samsung, AT&T and Google. Do it publicly on FB, Twitter, etc. Do it often. A small vocal group of XDA readers can probably stir up a decent amount of attention at AT&T if they coordinated their efforts.
Hey guys, long time lurker, first time post here.
I just got off the phone after a nightmare of random reboots and so on and so forth. VZW send me a text today saying an update to my phone was available. Thinking I'd find out if it was simply to disable mobile tether or not I called in. The tech was surprised, but said he did see the notes on my account that the message was sent.
He said it was NOT 2.3, but another maintenance release, approved today for push tomorrow. All of this can be dismissed, however he did say something quite interesting. He said he couldn't fully help me because my phone was rooted. Obviously I denied that, and he said look man, I know it is. I said how? He replied that he could see that I was running DASbamf 2.1, which I am. Explained that it was part of the new system for the 4g phones. Believe me or not, I just wanted to put it out there that VZW can apparently tell, his words were that more than likely, it's pulled from when the phone is activated. Has anyone else heard of either of these? This is also posted on droid forums, just putting that out these to avoid the duplicate talks.
I always thought they knew, just can't do much about it. However, if they start using that information to deny certain services, it would be a major problem.
We need one of the nifty Verizon employees that frequent here to comment on this.
that is interesting. In theory, they could use that to deny warranty claims.
or the devs could just change the listing and fake the rom info right?
Well, thats my thought / hope. He read right back to me saying I was running a custom rom. I got to talking with him and he admitted he was rooted as well, and additionally stated that as a whole VZW doesn't pursue the issue. it just tripped me out, that he read it out. He had a very "don't bull**** me" tone. haha
tricky verizon.... they are catchin on!
if their phones didn't come with so much bloatware i wouldn't feel the need to root.
The screen cap was from today, obviously. What do you guys think of that?
son0fthunder said:
The screen cap was from today, obviously. What do you guys think of that?
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i think you need to charge your phone
i think you should download that and drop it on xda early for all of us.
I agree,I believe a charge is in order
1.21 giggawatts Thunder™
nrfitchett4 said:
that is interesting. In theory, they could use that to deny warranty claims.
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Anyone dumb enough to return a rooted phone deserves to be denied.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
Haha, all warranty-implications aside, that's pretty cool that he could tell you what rom you were running.
Jcase has said before that they can tell, a big give away is you radio/baseband version. Do they care if you're rooted? Probably not unless your stealing services ,in which they are starting to act on and try to eliminate.
I root because I like to tinker with computers, I like the customization and speed that rooting gives us.
No flame please.
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA Premium App
son0fthunder said:
Hey guys, long time lurker, first time post here.
I just got off the phone after a nightmare of random reboots and so on and so forth. VZW send me a text today saying an update to my phone was available. Thinking I'd find out if it was simply to disable mobile tether or not I called in. The tech was surprised, but said he did see the notes on my account that the message was sent.
He said it was NOT 2.3, but another maintenance release, approved today for push tomorrow. All of this can be dismissed, however he did say something quite interesting. He said he couldn't fully help me because my phone was rooted. Obviously I denied that, and he said look man, I know it is. I said how? He replied that he could see that I was running DASbamf 2.1, which I am. Explained that it was part of the new system for the 4g phones. Believe me or not, I just wanted to put it out there that VZW can apparently tell, his words were that more than likely, it's pulled from when the phone is activated. Has anyone else heard of either of these? This is also posted on droid forums, just putting that out these to avoid the duplicate talks.
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Hi. I just bought a Thunderbolt after having problems with Sprint. I was told the same thing and when I mentioned it in the forum from a thread I posted, I was called a liar, among other things. I was told, as you can see from my post, that they also know every site you visit and whether you are paying for the Mobile Hot Spot. Sorry to hear your story, but glad that it validates what I was told from Sprint.
Schedonnardus said:
i think you need to charge your phone
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That was a great reply!! Hilarious!
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App
I do it to get rid of crapware
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
Well I'll just jump on over to Sprint if they terminate my contract! The developer support is the reason I have an Android phone. I'm sure the devs could come up with something to block this though.
Honestly... I think terminating contracts over rooted phones would be one of the dumbest moves a cellular company could make.
It takes a certain technical know-how to root a phone, even with "easy root" phones such as the Google Nexus series. These technical people are also the people that are likely to be in positions of IT buying power in major organizations. If one of these people were to loose service over the rooting their personal phone, they may make the case to organizational management to move the organizational fleet of phones away from that carrier. In turn, the termination of one contract leads to the eventual termination of an entire fleet of phones. This "Mutually Assured Destruction" scenario prevents the cellular carriers from taking any large scale averse action against rooted phones. Furthermore, these technical people frequently talk to each other through rapid dissemination means (i.e. these forums). This sets up another scenario where the cancellation of one person's service may lead to the loss of many current and future subscribers.
These two factors leads to an environment where rooting is tolerated but not encouraged by the carriers. Carriers do not want to encourage rooting because it allows people to get rid of money making applications (i.e. City ID). However, they can not take averse action against rooted phones as that would launch the "mutually assured destruction" scenario discussed above. Carriers have turned to the method of locking down the phones as much as possible to prevent casual rooting of the devices. However, once a device is rooted, it is out of the carrier's control.
I fell asleep shortly after this thread was posted, I will however post updated pics once phone is charged.
Today the Moto upgrade page changed the status of the AT&T Atrix 2 and Atrix 4G to "Further plans coming soon," so they have reneged on their promise of 3rd quarter of this year. Thanks Moto for heaping a stinking load of cow dung on us. Why did they have people sign up for a soak test that never happened? Here is the upgrade page updated on 22-September-2012.
https://forums.motorola.com/pages/00add97d6c
Unless they plan on going straight to Jelly Bean this is very upsetting.
I'm really hoping that this means we are going straight to JB, but knowing Moto, who knows. I guess we are lucky they haven't relegated us to staying on GB like they did with some of the other devices on that list.
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app
They could've just released the second or first leak as the OTA and unlocked the BL and ppl would've been happy.
Hopefully we get JB... not counting on it though. Good thing i decided to install the leak and SCv7. Thanks to jim and rdavisct and all the devs here.
Motorola sucks! I'm very upset about this.
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app
Other regions are getting ICS rolled out...
Its not moto its at&t, and its at&t about the bootloaders too, the Photon Q is a sprint phone, thats why you can unlock the bootloader.
I'm going to blame the carriers on this one. No other reason moto can roll out ICS to Atrix 2 that are in other regions other then the USA.
FYI: ICS is official in the SEA region as of 11 Sept. The website says Q4 2012, but let me assure you, that is not the case.
Motorola SEA
11 September
Good morning! We are pleased to let our Motorola XOOM2 and ATRIX2 users know that they will be receiving an over-the-air update to Android 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich). Users can also do a manual upgrade by going to Settings\About Tablet\Systems Updates. Please note that the upgrade does not allow for a previous version of Android to be re-installed, and we do recommend that users back up their data prior to this upgrade.
For more inquiries please contact our Product Inquiry Hotlines listed in our previous post. Thank you.
Yes, after some reflection the blame should be on AT&T. Atrix 2s all over the world including China, Cambodia, India and more got the ICS update already. So the likely reason is that AT&T blocked the update so people would upgrade to a new phone and extend their contracts. Since I am using an AT&T Atrix 2 (unlocked) in Thailand that is not an option for me. For regular AT&T customers with an Atrix 2, it looks like AT&T scubmagged you.
I am not a litigious person but if AT&T is blocking these updates, there are some grounds for us the consumer for a legal remedy. There are bugs and problems with the current OS and the update is supposed to fix these for us. The fact that AT&T is blocking us from getting them from the manufacturer is a violation and breach of our warranty and grounds for a lawsuit.
I am now a bit more thankful that I moved onto the AHD, however I mourn for all of my Atrix 2 friends here.
The good news is that the A2 community already has two different ICS leaks which have been worked on since early July, so it's not as if the phones can't run ICS at all. Needless to say, AT&T seems to be the culprit for this major hold-up.
Also, @ ajsedlacek, you likely wouldn't be able to sue AT&T for anything. They probably have a clause releasing them from any potential lawsuits once you sign a contract agreement with them.
Agree 100% with this. In the US the carriers hold all the power. None of them are exempt. Heck... look at the BS Verizon pulled with their "Nexus"
All international phones will get updates first for a variety of reasons, with a big reason being the carriers
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
I think most of us saw this coming. When I woke up this morning and saw the news, it definitely wasn't surprising to me.
My opinion on all of this, screw it. We've got awesome Devs here that are absolutely awesome at what they do, and personally, the LEAKS that we have of ICS are just fine for me.
Also, CM10 from Jim (and others) is right around the corner, and that excites me much more than getting official ICS. Granted it would be nice to have the official version, but there are better things in store for our Atrix 2.
Axis_Drummer said:
I think most of us saw this coming. When I woke up this morning and saw the news, it definitely wasn't surprising to me.
My opinion on all of this, screw it. We've got awesome Devs here that are absolutely awesome at what they do, and personally, the LEAKS that we have of ICS are just fine for me.
Also, CM10 from Jim (and others) is right around the corner, and that excites me much more than getting official ICS. Granted it would be nice to have the official version, but there are better things in store for our Atrix 2.
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Click to collapse
I agree 100%.
Sent from my MB865 running CM10
What folks here really need to do, is swallow their 'entitlements' and stop acting like they're "owed" something. It's getting ridiculous, and rather embarrassing to read. You all bought an Atrix 2, that doesn't mean you also purchased the moon and the stars and everything else you've ever wished upon. We get what we get, so don't throw a fit. Whatever comes our way, will be made more amazing by our talented development team. Stop crying about timetables, what you anticipated, and what you feel you deserve. It's a phone for Christ's sake, and to be such malcontents about when we "get this or that" is leaving a rather bitter, self-warranted, rotten taste in the mouth of this forum. Does Motorola suck? Yeah, undeniably so. Does AT&T hold back inexplicably? Certainly. But, you bought the tickets, now take the ride. Stop complaining, or buy another phone. If you're staying with the A2, you can take solace in the fact we have an inarguable competence and talent here, otherwise, take your b¡tching elsewhere. It's growing ever so redundant, and removes from the integrity of everything we've done here, if the threads are flooded with crap like this...
Two bits offered, take 'em or leave 'em...
EDIT: Sorry for the rant, but c'mon, enough is enough.
Sent from my rooted Mayan Calendar
whatever, man
i told my mommy im not getting ics, and she's calling at&t tomorrow :laugh:
souljaboy said:
whatever, man
i told my mommy im not getting ics, and she's calling at&t tomorrow :laugh:
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Case in point. I've seen enough from you already.
Edit: If you're joking around with me, ha-Ha. I hope that's what you're looking for. If not, you have more practice to be done with your reading comprehension.
Sent from my rooted Mayan Calendar
Yeah.., I'm not understanding why everyone is crazy about "OFFICIAL" ICS. We already have a leak or rather 2 that have barely if any bugs and a couple of GREAT rom's based on ICS. Furthermore we have a fully working build of CM10 based of off Jellybean (not counting the camera... yet). Personally I couldn't care less about when an "official" version is released because it won't change anything, and I advise you all to do the same.
Just my 2 cents. Not in response to anybody but just my opinion.
The whole argument about updates being not "promised" and being "gratis" is bogus. So is the argument about manufacturers hands being tied by Google.
Short of a legally enforceable contract, Google as well as the manufacturers do everything in their power to lead people into believing that their phones will be updated to the next version of the OS. Google had announced the Alliance with the declared aim of providing OS updates for 18 months from device release date. Last time I checked, Moto was a part of the alliance. Moto has had the Atrix 2 on its update page since February 2012, if I'm not wrong. At the very least, this is a Gentleman's agreement on the part of Google/manufacturer that our phone will be updated. Now if any manufacturer wants to say that it had made no legally binding committment to update, where is the honour in that? Why should I trust such a corporation with my hard earned money in the future? As far as I'm concerned, there WAS a pomise, either express or implied, to update my phone and the manufacturer has dishonourably reneged.
This appeared on the Moto forum:
"Thank you for being a Motorola Mobility customer. We know you value having the latest and greatest technology on your device. We are working very closely with Google and our carrier partners to bring you the best possible experience on each of our devices powered by Android. This means ensuring that all upgrades and updates enhance device functionality and provide an overall improved experience.
As previously communicated, DROID RAZR, DROID RAZR MAXX, DROID 4, DROID BIONIC, DROID XYBOARD 8.2 and 10.1, and MOTOROLA XOOM WiFI + 3G/4G will be upgraded to ICS. Additional details on timing for these products will be shared at a later date.
To help our customers understand the steps we go through to develop an upgrade, we are describing the high-level process for delivering upgrades below. During this process, we work to ensure that an upgrade is possible, and that it provides a satisfying experience. For each smartphone or tablet currently in the market, you will see updated information on what stage the upgrade plan is in.
* Please note this timing is Motorola Mobility's best estimate and contingent on successful completion of testing.
==> https://forums.motorola.com/pages/00add97d6c"
Clearly that sounds like a promise of OS upgrades to come. So untill my next phone states on the box "This unit will not receive any further OS updates from us" I'll expect the updates to come in a somewhat timely manner.
Updates being free is anouther argument I have never understood, even when accompanied by the inappropriate analogy of PC and Windows OS. Unlike in PCs, mobile device owners are completely dependent on the manufacturer to provide OS updates. The cost of developing updates has obviously already been paid in advance by the device owners - would the manufacturers sell even half the number of devices if they told their customers upfront that they would not provide any updates? These are functionality and security updates to an OS that is still in its infancy on products that cost hundreds of dollars one way or the other.
About manufacturers being hamstrung by Google/carriers, Google has already released the OS source code for manufacturers to do as they please. The carrier argument may be true though - I guess if you buy a subsidized phone, you got to be prepared to pamper to the whims of the carrier.
About the phones getting updates through leaks, I would guess even the people who do not visit xda, who don't know nothing about installing leaks ... deserve to have ICS on their phones?
Apex_Strider said:
What folks here really need to do, is swallow their 'entitlements' and stop acting like they're "owed" something.
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Ummm...Yes, I (we) are owed something. Its called updates and bug fixes.
So far one upgrade with no real fixes...
If you're OK with that, so be it. But don't try to sit here and tell people what they should or should not be doing.
Yes the deb's here have done a great job. Saying that, its not their jobs! It is that of Motorola's and at&TS.
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app
dk-v1 said:
Ummm...Yes, I (we) are owed something. Its called updates and bug fixes.
So far one upgrade with no real fixes...
If you're OK with that, so be it. But don't try to sit here and tell people what they should or should not be doing.
Yes the deb's here have done a great job. Saying that, its not their jobs! It is that of Motorola's and at&TS.
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
You've so much to learn, young grasshopper...
The "upgrade" wasn't an 'upgrade', it was a leak, I'm sure you recall this, yeah? If it was an official OTA, and needed "bug fixes", likely we would have already gotten them. What we did, was hack the Moto servers, to 'fish' for updates. We found one (two, to be specific) and nothing subsequent to that is owed to us by Moto or AT&T, because what we found wasn't even intended for use by us -the end consumer. We'll get the release when we get it. My point was for everyone to stop this incessant b¡tching and whining. It's borderline manic...
Sent from my rooted Mayan Calendar
I don't think anyone feels entitled to anything, but it is reasonable to expect some updates and maintenance. Granted we got 2.3.6, but is that really an update when most everyone else at the time was running 2.3.7?
I don't think anyone here questions the contributions made by the devs, nor isn't grateful. I think we're all just frustrated that we're behind the times and know that we have a lot of potential going to waste.
I came from M3 and had a Motorola Cliq XT, so I been through all of this before with Moto and their updates. Fortunately we had Turl (which some of you devs might know), and when I left there about a year ago we had CM7 2.3.7 running great on a phone that had barely a 1/3 of the hardware we have on our A2.
I'm confident we'll move forward, we have some great devs here. We're all entitled to our opinions and expectations, and we all want more because we know we're more than capable of taking advantage of it. I think we just need to organize and focus on what we have going on here at XDA. Personally, I'm excited for CM10 and can't wait to get something more proper running on this piece lol.
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app
Not sure how I feel about this. Mixed feelings here. Their explanations are not very clear.
Hey peeps just for kicks I contacted customer un-support to inquire about hox at&t jelly bean update.The following is my chat,where the tech gets mad at me for,asking them to send me the update since they cant fix it.Then he ends the chat,when I say his pre-written statement's are insulting,and the at&t devs are amateur's. I thought it was hilarious,this guy did not.
Thank you for your patience! Your AT&T Representative will be with you shortly.
Welcome! You are now chatting with 'Geofrey Holt '
Geofrey Holt : Hello Blaz1nr, My name is Geoffrey and I would be happy to help you today. Please give me one moment to look up your account information.
Geofrey Holt : Just so I understand your problem your phone is not updated to jellybean?
blaz1nr: I know for sure you recieved to software upgrade from HTC over 3 months ago.Is your dev team having problems? No one x is receiving the update its not even slated for roll out,according to sources at at&t.
blaz1nr: So when can i expect update this?
Geofrey Holt : Have you checked your phone to see if it is available for a update?
blaz1nr: I just told you its not available to any U.S at&t htc one xl.You at at&T have not provided the update yet. You guys are operating these devices on my airwaves, the publicly owned bandwidth that is leased by the FCC in the public's best interest. Yet somehow we pay alot more for service that is accompanied by terrible customer service,and updates & support clearly are a part of that. This also hints as to why AT&T has lost most its customer base,and become rated dead last for customer service by Consumer Reports and other rating agencies
blaz1nr: I was asking you to check your data base,and tell me when this update will be allowed by at&t.
Geofrey Holt : Just one moment please.
Geofrey Holt : At&t is trying to put this update out as soon as possible. They are pushing this update out in batches. And we do not know when those batches are pushed out. You will receive a text message on your phone when it is available for your phone.
Geofrey Holt : I know this can be frustrating but we are trying to get these updates out as quickly as possible.
blaz1nr: That's exactly it.You have no idea when it will push out.And do you think its ok that only at&t held this update from its customers? I don't appreciate being giving a sorry just wait answer.I know for sure at&t has not even began to do this.So what your tell me is a total lie,or you know nothing about the company you work for.The one xl+ has received two its already going to the next platform again. This phone came much much later. As I expected we the customer are left,with terrible support and no real answers as to why the whole world has this update and we cannot. We the customer own your terrible company,and we demand the same respect other carriers give their customers.
Geofrey Holt : Just to confirm your your HTC one x that you are using is on # ****?
blaz1nr: nope ****
Geofrey Holt : Once a update is released by the manufacture at&t puts it through testing. once they are confidant that it will work with the at&t network it will be released. I do apologize but we do not have a release date.
Geofrey Holt : Are you still with me in this chat?
blaz1nr: well just to let you know,it does work,in fact the version from Canada,works perfect and its from a different carrier altogether.Almost 15 years as a customer and this what I get.Ill tell you what send me the update,ill have it stable and ready to push by tonight.That's how fast I can do it,and I have had no schooling for this at all.But i can for sure fix this entire update in under one day.By my self.This just proves someone like me that can build this from source with no training at all,is far more quilified then your own dev team. This is very sad.You should be ashamed of your subpar dev team.SEND ME THE UPDATE ILL FIX IT.This is total bull%h!&.
Geofrey Holt : Once a manufacturer releases an update to us, AT&T puts it through rigorous testing to ensure its compatibility with our network. Only once we are satisfied that the update will work properly on our systems without causing a negative customer experience will we then make it available for our AT&T branded devices. This can sometimes be a lengthy process that may include working with the manufacturer and developers to make needed changes. There have been some instances in the past where we have simply never released updates due to conflicts and unresolvable problems. At this time the update you are looking for is not yet available for your AT&T device. I am sorry, but we will need to wait to see if and when it is approved by our testing team.
blaz1nr : Well it seems you didn't actually read anything i typed did you? Did you read anything it at all? I tell you what,your pre-written answers are insulting.Do you think were stupid? Your not pushing it because you put it on the end of support list.Which you never stated.You have done nothing but insult my intelligence.This is very typical of so called tech support at at&t.
Your AT&T representative has closed the chat session
Sounds like you were being a **** to a guy that was just trying to do his job.
Well if not telling the truth is doing your job, then yes I was.
Sent from my HTC One X using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2
7786 said:
Sounds like you were being a **** to a guy that was just trying to do his job.
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+100 to this. You are the kind of customer I hate. An arrogant know it all that takes out his frustration on the minimum wage employees that have absolutely no control over your problem. Go fall in a ditch
Sent from my One X using xda app-developers app
blaz1nr said:
Well if not telling the truth is doing your job, then yes I was.
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The guy was telling the truth as he knows it, and can only tell you what he is being told. Customer service reps don't do the testing, not part of the certification team, and have nothing to do with the release of the update. All he can tell you is what he is being told, and what he is scripted to say.
There is a 17 page thread on the AT&T community forum, with similar complaints as you. There is an AT&T community manager that has been active on that thread named jamileh, and she has been a bit more forthcoming than the CS agent you chatted with. But she didn't have any better of an answer. She understands that people are *****ing and moaning about the delay, and she has been bugging the certification team at least twice a week to get any information on when it will be released. All they will tell her is that its being worked on, but there is no ETA. That is probably as much information as you are going to get from any AT&T employee.
Anyway, why would someone complain about such a thing on XDA? This is the place for phone mods and custom ROMs. Just unlock the bootloader, load a custom ROM, and be done with it.
First off the guy is a high yield account rep. This meaning 15 or more devices on one account. Secondly he does in fact know, that the update was canceled due to eod listing. So that being said, and since I chat with the same guy multiple times. He has stated before that the eod list is visible, and they can tell you if it's not going to update. But At&t policy is never to say your device is eod. So before you blindly post comments, it's good to know the facts.
Sent from my HTC One X using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2
blaz1nr said:
First off the guy is a high yield account rep. This meaning 15 or more devices on one account. Secondly he does in fact know, that the update was canceled due to eod listing. So that being said, and since I chat with the same guy multiple times. He has stated before that the eod list is visible, and they can tell you if it's not going to update. But At&t policy is never to say your device is eod. So before you blindly post comments, it's good to know the facts.
Sent from my HTC One X using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
Then why the hell did you bother him? Especially if you already know the answer to your question? Just load a custom ROM and stfu
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
Terrible. Notfunny. Not helpful. Unnecessary.
Sent from my Evita
redpoint73 said:
There is a 17 page thread on the AT&T community forum, with similar complaints as you.
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I just tracked it down. My head hurts.
At this point, there is no doubt in my mind that the update is being delayed intentionally for marketing reasons. It will probably come out eventually, but I would guess not until at least a month after the One is available.
I followed all of those posts on the AT&T forums for some time about two months ago...just a lot of butt hurt people all raging on the death star, some with purpose and some without. I especially love all the people threatening to leave because of a software update :laugh:
Listen, that's the reason why we have the brilliant minds here in this community. READ, MOD, and be MERRY! If people don't like what AT&T has to offer, then there is competition out there, but I hear the same from Verizon customers frequently.
None of these companies promise or really owe any of us anything and to expect otherwise is naivety.
I feel a little sorry for that CSR...
iElvis said:
I just tracked it down. My head hurts.
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18 pages now.
I dropped out of that thread a while ago. Its basically just page after page of people complaining over and over. Often just the same people complaining again and again. Beating a dead horse, and its not going to make AT&T move any faster.
---------- Post added at 01:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:33 PM ----------
blaz1nr said:
he does in fact know, that the update was canceled due to eod listing.
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Click to collapse
EOD? You mean EOL (end of life)?
End of day?
Eve of Destruction?
AT&T (as well as other carriers) tend to keep phones around for quite a while. So I doubt the One X is EOL. They are still selling the Vivid (8 months older than the One X) as new (not a refurb).
Closing this before it really gets out hand
XDA Moderator