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It seems that a lot of companies are really taking advantage of twitter to communicate with customers at large. Some examples are Verizon and HTC announcing the Eris OS update, Sprint has announced items via twitter. Lot's of people follow these companies and I am sure that these companies search twitter for references to there name.
So I propose that we use the power of twitter to send a clear message to Sprint that we would like an Android 2.0.1 update and that we would like some sort of news confirming it. We don't need exact deadlines but just knowing that it's coming would be great news for the community. It would also benefit Sprint in the long run because potential and current customers would have a little bit more faith in buying a Hero at 179.99 knowing that it will be getting an update.
I am going to post this to a few other Sprint/Hero related forums. Everyone can start twitting now or we can try to get some clear defined message written out that we can all retweet. Please post any thoughts, inputs or messages that you have twitted @Sprint.
My twitter ID is kennyidaho.
You do know that HTC announced we would be getting 2.x on Twitter about a month ago, right?
http://twitter.com/htc/statuses/5243593307
Flipz beat me to it.
I was googling for the article where HTC Confirmed it. They wouldn't bother with the update for CDMA Hero if Sprint wasn't going to give it to us. It costs them too much money to build an OS/Rom for a phone just in case Sprint ever asks for it.
Yes but nobody knows for sure if this applies to CDMA Hero's (we do know that it applies to GSM Hero's because of the leaked ROM - is there any proof a CDMA rom has been created?). HTC control's the update process on GMS Hero's, however Sprint has to request and push an update to Sprint Hero's. HTC is primarily a GSM manufacture and will cater to those devices first.
Assuming that HTC's announcement regarding Android 2.0 applies to carrier branded devices is as naive as assuming that the successor to the Hero (to be announced in February) applies to Sprints Hero.
Trust me I would like to hope it's true. Having Sprint and HTC devices in the past I know that just because HTC updates it's GSM equivalent it does not always indicate CDMA devices will receive the update (or will be updated in a timely manner).
Well if its been confirmed well what's the harm of twittering Sprint
No harm...
Just seems like a waste, one way or another we will have a 2.1 update.
Kcarpenter said:
No harm...
Just seems like a waste, one way or another we will have a 2.1 update.
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Myself and I am sure many others grow tired of the waiting game with these devices. In the end the main goal really is to see sprint open up a little bit.
If Sprint has ordered the update, if it's in testing and is slated to be released sometime first quarter 2010 then what's the harm in telling us? Verizon can notify it's customers that their Droid Eris, which is basically the same phone as the Hero, is getting updated - Sprint can take that risk too!
Right now Verizon is blitzing the media with Droid this Droid that, update this update that. What's sprint doing? A 5 second mention on a commercial also advertising the Pre and Tour?
Kcarpenter said:
No harm...
Just seems like a waste, one way or another we will have a 2.1 update.
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just saying, in the time it took you to type that out and post it here, you could just as easily have tweeted something to sprint about getting the update.
how are you so absolutely positive that we'll get it? do you know something the rest of us don't?
all i'm saying is that it's not a waste to tell them what you want, whether or not you already know you're going to get it.
I agree totaly. We make huge investments in these devices, especially those of us who don't get them by signing a new contract. Personally I have to have the coolest gadget on the market, its my kryptonite. To that note also, Sprint does have the best service converage and price in my area. So I can't afford necessarrily to go else where. Damned if you do Damned if you don't. We are at the mercy of the phone company and until we get the portablity openness in the U.S. that our European counterparts have, we are stuck with what we get.
That being said, the Devs on this forum and else where make the phone what its worth, not Sprint. Luckily in our case, "There is always someone smarter than you". Meaning Sprint can hold out all they want, we will get ours eventually. I am sure we can yell and scream and cause a fuss, but I don't see the merit behind it. Kind of like getting upset with the Customer Serivce reps at sprint when we call to ask the status of the update, you can yell at them all day long and nothing will get accomplished other than making them pissed and ruining their day.
Just Twitter don't be upset just ask nicely, what id they respond back with next week. Then the debate can hold off on thief build and relax
Gah, I even went out and made a twitter account for you guys. Now knowing I have a twitter account gives me the chills... I feel like a 'myspace' person now.
@sprint and @htc right???
@kcarpenter5407
Kcarpenter said:
Gah, I even went out and made a twitter account for you guys. Now knowing I have a twitter account gives me the chills... I feel like a 'myspace' person now.
@sprint and @htc right???
@kcarpenter5407
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Hey Twitter is nothing like having a MySpace account, granted most people mis use by updating about nothing. I follow cnn, some journalist that I like and some online stores and ESPN plus a couple sports teams. Which has Me do less surfing cause all the info comes straight to me
If u decide to give Twitter a try may I suggest if you find someone intresting follow them and check out who they are following
I don't see any harm in this... I'm going to twitter Sprint here in a few
I was being slightly facetious.
Well HTC posted a response nothing from sprint
Take it with a grain of salt. But it sounds mildly legit.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=913045
edit: actually i call b.s.
whiteguypl said:
edit: actually i call b.s.
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Why? I have no firm opinion one way or the other, but just saying "bull****" really doesn't mean much unless you're playing the card game.
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
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Open source doesn't mean free.
I'm inclined to believe it. It makes more sense than trying to say they have been testing it for months. I've had my captivate for 6 months, almost 5 of them running FroYo thanks to the awesome devs here. Has the froyo always been stable and fast? No. But the devs don't work for Samsung with all the resouces, they are doing it in their spare time. I would bet Samsung had a fairly stable, almost complete version of FroYo ready before the phone released.
I am really getting tempted by the Atrix, apart from the awesome hardware and webtop app, Motorola devices get updates. But, they sound harder to flash custom ROMs, so its a give and take. Based on what I saw on the CES coverage, going with only official software may not be so bad.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
Makes no sense. Regardless if Samsung charges for feature updates or not, terms of the upgrades would have been set between carrier and Samsung prior to the first handset even being made. Thus outside of any major surprises (which there are none here) the carrier knows from day one what upgrades will be offered, when and at what cost. It's not like Samsung turned around weeks after the devices shipped and said, "Hey. That Froyo upgrade is gonna cost ya, buddy!" That would have been known long before contacts were signed.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Even if thus is true, both AT&T and Samsung have all ready made too many mistakes. Both will lose some business. Yes it won't be enough to hurt either but maybe all the pestering will make them rethink their business models. Probably not. My last Samschmuck phone on AT&T for sure.
Sent from a phone somewhere in the universe
ianwood said:
Makes no sense. Regardless if Samsung charges for feature updates or not, terms of the upgrades would have been set between carrier and Samsung prior to the first handset even being made. Thus outside of any major surprises (which there are none here) the carrier knows from day one what upgrades will be offered, when and at what cost. It's not like Samsung turned around weeks after the devices shipped and said, "Hey. That Froyo upgrade is gonna cost ya, buddy!" That would have been known long before contacts were signed.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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This is the same point I tried to make on the thread. While Samsung may have been the ones to state that Froyo would come to Galaxy S, it may be that the carrier(s) decided to balk on the 2.2 update due to extra cost as probably stipulated by whatever contract they negotiated with Samsung.
If Froyo is already on Canadian carriers' devices (officially) why not U.S. carriers. Something reeks here.
While Samsung should have kept their mouths shut about the update, I'm sure a part is being played by the American carriers here.
Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
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You are mixing up open source with free software. Ask Richard Stallman the difference
Also, I would imagine that they would not be paying Samsung for the software itself but more so the software development to tailor it to the carriers needs.
This sounds good in theory, but I think it has holes.
this would be the case for all phones on all carriers, but it isn't the same situation.
iphone updates are coming out all the time. With at&t subsidized out the butt on the iphone, I fail to believe they osu for all those updates.
I had a samsung blackjCk, and we went through the same thing with winmo, meanwhile other at&t phones got the updates.
Id have to say honestly in my personal opinion based from facts from an inside source... At&t is so obsessed with the iphone anything that costs them money or time that doesn't increase profits is going to be set on the backburner... Att has a time of year called "Iphone season" where they push the new versions and updates of the iphone to customers.... Seeing as how froyo itself was already released for almost every device on OTHER carriers and att has yet to push a single update aside from the eclaire update i doubt it will ever be coming.
Not to mention if anyone has noticed att removed ALOT of stuff from the captivates before they were able to ship them to customers... for example the third party apk allow button is completely gone from the stock phones due to att and their restrictions and the market having apps that just don't show up becuase of the way att wants to now start locking down phones like apple. (not trying to bash anyone or brands but from what ive seen from someone who loves to customize and believe anything i pay for is mine and i should be able to do as i wish with said product that's how it is in my eyes)
I think that since they have the rage over the iphones (another reason they try to sell them harder then any other phone is because of the "vast amount of accessories" ) it feels like they fell on the band wagon of the craze instead of actually worrying about ALL of their customers. It just seems like since iphone updates are pushed to phone and att doesnt have to deal with them, not to mention if the phone messes up it goes to an apple store and not att.
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released. As to the truth behind this, anyones guess is as good as mine. Just seems funny how No att phones have gotten the froyo update unless they've (the customer) installed it themselves.
I wouldn't be looking forward to any updates from what i've seen on my end.
A.VOID said:
This sounds good in theory, but I think it has holes.
this would be the case for all phones on all carriers, but it isn't the same situation.
iphone updates are coming out all the time. With at&t subsidized out the butt on the iphone, I fail to believe they osu for all those updates.
I had a samsung blackjCk, and we went through the same thing with winmo, meanwhile other at&t phones got the updates.
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AT&T has nothing to do with iPhone updates. Matter of fact, AT&T has nothing to do with iPhones at all, except sell them. All iPhone updates are done through iTunes and all iPhone support is handled by Apple. This is not a good comparison.
Even comparing WinMo doesn't really work. I had a Wizard on AT&T, and there was exactly one firmware update, even though there were other versions that were available later. Plus, Windows is not free and not based on open source code. So, carriers would expect to pay for updates with closed source operating systems.
Xaviorin said:
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released.
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If that were true, then Apple and AT&T would be facing some serious litigation. This is similar to the deals that Intel made with computer manufacturers, forcing them to slow leak AMD sales in order to sell more Intel chips. Intel paid quite a hefty fine and suffered a serious PR black eye. That type of practice stifles competition and is very, very illegal. So, I doubt that Apple and AT&T would even consider doing that.
Xaviorin said:
Id have to say honestly in my personal opinion based from facts from an inside source... At&t is so obsessed with the iphone anything that costs them money or time that doesn't increase profits is going to be set on the backburner... Att has a time of year called "Iphone season" where they push the new versions and updates of the iphone to customers.... Seeing as how froyo itself was already released for almost every device on OTHER carriers and att has yet to push a single update aside from the eclaire update i doubt it will ever be coming.
Not to mention if anyone has noticed att removed ALOT of stuff from the captivates before they were able to ship them to customers... for example the third party apk allow button is completely gone from the stock phones due to att and their restrictions and the market having apps that just don't show up becuase of the way att wants to now start locking down phones like apple. (not trying to bash anyone or brands but from what ive seen from someone who loves to customize and believe anything i pay for is mine and i should be able to do as i wish with said product that's how it is in my eyes)
I think that since they have the rage over the iphones (another reason they try to sell them harder then any other phone is because of the "vast amount of accessories" ) it feels like they fell on the band wagon of the craze instead of actually worrying about ALL of their customers. It just seems like since iphone updates are pushed to phone and att doesnt have to deal with them, not to mention if the phone messes up it goes to an apple store and not att.
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released. As to the truth behind this, anyones guess is as good as mine. Just seems funny how No att phones have gotten the froyo update unless they've (the customer) installed it themselves.
I wouldn't be looking forward to any updates from what i've seen on my end.
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Conspiracy theory much? Like someone said, your theories border on anti-competitive in practice. AT&T is also not so obsessed with the iPhone given how much they've diversified their smartphone portfolio in the past 9 months (+2 WebOS devices, +2 BlackBerrys, +3 Windows Phones, +5 Android devices).
I'm usually skeptical about these things, but this is about the only rumor that makes sense.
For those comparing it to the iphone, its like comparing oranges to apples. Apple pretty much takes care of everything on their side.At&t just peddles their product. Apple has a 400 person call center just for the iphone, next door to where I work.
Apple makes the hardware and creates the OS.
Samsung just makes hardware which is a good thing considering how bad their software engineers are at coding.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I'm more in the conspiracy theory side
Don't trust everything you read.
Thing about it deeply, what is more likely:
A Sammy employee risked his job, created an account just to create this post, and tell us the truth about the updates and how bad his employer is? seriously? What did he gain by doing this post? peace of mind? can he go to sleep now that he has revealed the truth of the US-only updates? Does really the Samsung employees care this much for only the US based users? This smells, and bad.
Now lets look at the conspiracy side. An AT&T employee notices our frustration against them. They see that seem to be more frustrated people are the non tech-savvy ones; that we got to admit they are more than us and represent a big number for them. On the other hand I bet they receive a gazillion calls from you guys on these subject.
Wouldn't be more likely than AT&T representative created that post to wash their hands and pass the blame to sammy? Isn't them who released a restricted phone and made a deal with Samsung saying that they will be in charge of this phone's updates? Samsungs cost in releasing an update of a phone that is almost equal to 6 other phones they released is null; whereas AT&T cost in updating their crap is high. Don't be blind. Carriers are the new tyrants. They will do anything in their power to get more money. If you could see what they are able to do in countries like mine you wont even doubt this. In my country of such a deal is made you can forget that you will ever get updates. There even is a carrier that, after 4 months passed that you have purchased a motorola's android based phone, charges you 10 uss monthly for MOTO BLUR, and this was written in the small print of the contract... seriously... I've seen carriers cancel their users contracts, saying they requested that, to bill them their contract-cancelation fee...
I could go on with this for pages... I've witnessed carriers lying, deceiving, and even more right in the people's face. If you want to check this, and know some spanish or use translators, just google "Claro hijos de puta" (sons of a...) or "claro estafa" (scam); both searches give more than 3 million results, and you wont imagine what you might find inside those pages...
This whole thing smells badly. And if I had to bet, I would say that post was made by a carrier to buy them time, or even to start making up an excuse so they wont ever release an update... after all, they would be the only ones that would benefit from such events...
I'm through waiting
This story was the final straw for me, whether it's true or not. I am tired of the drama and am no longer waiting for AT&T and/or Samsung to deliver what AT&T told me would happen when I bought the phone. If AT&T store staff said something incorrect it was corporate's fault for not guiding their staff correctly. I was told shortly Froyo was coming, but it never came. Samsung said on Twitter/Facebook we all would have Froyo last year. There is no excuse for what they have done, none. I've waded through the myriad of 3rd party ROMs and was leery of the leaked Froyo ones due to everyone seemed to have an issue here or there. The 9000 ROMs sounded exciting but came with issues I didn't want. I just want a working GPS and a stable phone, running Froyo, what I thought I was getting last summer.
Now that Rogers released a North American ROM and the talented coders have seized upon it, we seem to be approaching a new level of stability with Froyo. After reading up on the various Rogers ROM based images I installed Cognition (donation coming later tonight) and after 30 minutes of playing around, I am home with Froyo now. I am beyond tired of waiting for AT&T and/or Samsung to do the honorable thing for they are not honorable companies. I doubt another Samsung will grace my pocket and yet maybe it will be the 3rd party coders that will ultimately deliver what I have waited patiently for, for months. Wouldn't it be a wonderful environment if Samsung would just release the source to everything and let those out here, those infinitely more talented than Samsung staff, have access to the code they need to work pure magic.
Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
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polarbee said:
Open source doesn't mean free.
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Open source comes under GPL license. This isn't the one that is of cost, but the efforts involved in packing for a device, its extensive testing is what is costly.
In the most simplest of terms, the following people would be involved:
Business Team x 3 people
Development Team x 6 people
Testing/QA Team x 10 people
To take care of these people:
Project Manager x 1 person
Team Leads x 3 people (1 for each team)
Taking this to 23 people, to say the least.
On an average, if we pay each person say $ 50k for 6 months effort, it would be $ 50,000 x 23 = $ 1,150,000 i.e., $ 1.15 millions for 6 months.
Now see, this is only the minimal scale. For a phone so wide spread, I would assume a team of atleast 50 where managers charge more than 100-200k a year.
Now u see why Samsung doesn't wish to put this kind of money into a phone already sold, and is looking into marketing newer phones.
I think its all hoopla.
This "leak" of sensitive information on one of many android forums is only going to reach the eyes of a hand full of readers.
We (the brave souls wanting new updates for our gadgets and willing to hack them to get it) are very few in numbers compared to the vast amounts of consumers who own this phone, and usually don't give a hoot about a new update/upgrade for their phones ROM, IF they even know what the heck it is. They only care that their calls and texts go through, and they can browse the web on their lunch break.
The ONLY issue that most would care about is the GPS issues we have had. And I bet that AT&T, and Samsung have both received tens of thousands of customer complaints regarding Mr. Joe Average not being able to find his way on his family vacation. Again, we are but a small number compared to that. I would think that alone would motivate something to happen, at least an OTA update to fix the GPS issues. Nope.
So other than an intellectual debate on "why haves", and "why have nots" on a forum like this, there is nothing else this message could possibly accomplish.
The above thread, and this one will slowly slide down the thread list and be forgotten and nothing else will change.
The Bottom Line
Rumors aside, if it doesn't sell more phones, minutes or data plans and it can be avoided without seriously upsetting customers, they won't bother. Outside of our merry band of flash-a-holics, what percent of Captivate owners even know what Froyo is or care?
Also, judging by the JH7 OTA debacle, Samsung's OTA upgrade capability is decidedly unreliable. I'd bet that caused a mountain of returns. AT&T HATES returns!!! Costs them a fortune. The cost of paying Samsung for a Froyo upgrade is a drop in the bucket by comparison. So a bad OTA system is worse than none at all. If AT&T can get away with avoiding it, they will.
I think our best hope is to make A LOT of noise! Complain to Samsung, AT&T and Google. Do it publicly on FB, Twitter, etc. Do it often. A small vocal group of XDA readers can probably stir up a decent amount of attention at AT&T if they coordinated their efforts.
Ok I am just going to throw it out there. Please just hold the waves of "can't" and "not gonna work" negativity is just a waste. There are ways to get your voice heard that have worked for me in the past and here is my suggestion. The more the merrier!
Problem is Verizon put a encrypted bootloader on the Samsung Galaxy S3. The bigger problem and the angle we should have is they sold it to us with out letting us know their difference. News of the other S3's sold around the world painted a clear image of what we were getting into... "The same phone." Samsung had used their brand to deliver one device between all networks. Yes there were some cpu changes due to networks but that was noted everywhere. Verizon always note differences in how great there network is and the plus's in their service over others but nothing on the one change they had done to the Galaxy S3 vs the entire world. Obviously because its a negative. Their sales model was we are selling the Galaxy S3 and since we thought we were getting the same product we ordered it. Thats pretty big. Complaining here on xda I think is a waste.., the petition... I did sign btw but unfortunetly is just noise to Verizon. Everyone has to call with the general attitude of being frustrated like they have not been honestly sold a product and that trust was broken.
Don't get mad, don't start going threatening to jump ship... say that this really has broken our trust, don't mention technical info or just lightly because they are not going to have a clue. Say that they made no mention anywhere nor any employee informed you that their device was locked down vs any other and that they do a great job of letting you know market, network, and service differences but didn't lift a finger to let you know about the phone difference being a negative. Lastly listen to what they say as frustrating as it may be and say you want to find a way to rectify this what ever it takes.
Don't make calling your daily task, but just call when you have time... IE ride into work, ride home. Talk to the cust rep and when that fizzles ask for a super. Hang up call again then explain the same frustration and how you even more frustrated with the crappy response the previous rep and that its not acceptable. Just keep asking who you can talk to. If half there customer support traffic is from the locked bootloader and misleading sales thats going to send a pretty good message plus everything else thats going on with news online.
Lastly you could even email them, the more the better. The whole deal here is the message needs to be going to THE MAN... Big Red. Not the message being found out by the man reading it in off of some blog. The additional traffic to their general daily cycle work will send a strong concern message but with the same message of being misleading sales starts to make it a big deal. If this goes mainstream that can be very threatening. There is no guarantee it will work but the more headlines of frustrated and upset customers is really bad for them. No business wants to be linked to upset mis-informed customers...That is a trust issue in the Verizon Name.
Side note: This refocused energy may also help the DEV work with less noise and clutter. Everyone wants to help which is cool but so many none useful comments. If it was that easy these guys would have already done it. Lets let them reverse engineer things while we use our energy usefully to stir things up on the other end.
Boss428man said:
Ok I am just going to throw it out there. Please just hold the waves of "can't" and "not gonna work" negativity is just a waste. There are ways to get your voice heard that have worked for me in the past and here is my suggestion. The more the merrier!
Problem is Verizon put a encrypted bootloader on the Samsung Galaxy S3. The bigger problem and the angle we should have is they sold it to us with out letting us know their difference. News of the other S3's sold around the world painted a clear image of what we were getting into... "The same phone." Samsung had used their brand to deliver one device between all networks. Yes there were some cpu changes due to networks but that was noted everywhere. Verizon always note differences in how great there network is and the plus's in their service over others but nothing on the one change they had done to the Galaxy S3 vs the entire world. Obviously because its a negative. Their sales model was we are selling the Galaxy S3 and since we thought we were getting the same product we ordered it. Thats pretty big. Complaining here on xda I think is a waste.., the petition... I did sign btw but unfortunetly is just noise to Verizon. Everyone has to call with the general attitude of being frustrated like they have not been honestly sold a product and that trust was broken.
Don't get mad, don't start going threatening to jump ship... say that this really has broken our trust, don't mention technical info or just lightly because they are not going to have a clue. Say that they made no mention anywhere nor any employee informed you that their device was locked down vs any other and that they do a great job of letting you know market, network, and service differences but didn't lift a finger to let you know about the phone difference being a negative. Lastly listen to what they say as frustrating as it may be and say you want to find a way to rectify this what ever it takes.
Don't make calling your daily task, but just call when you have time... IE ride into work, ride home. Talk to the cust rep and when that fizzles ask for a super. Hang up call again then explain the same frustration and how you even more frustrated with the crappy response the previous rep and that its not acceptable. Just keep asking who you can talk to. If half there customer support traffic is from the locked bootloader and misleading sales thats going to send a pretty good message plus everything else thats going on with news online.
Lastly you could even email them, the more the better. The whole deal here is the message needs to be going to THE MAN... Big Red. Not the message being found out by the man reading it in off of some blog. The additional traffic to their general daily cycle work will send a strong concern message but with the same message of being misleading sales starts to make it a big deal. If this goes mainstream that can be very threatening. There is no guarantee it will work but the more headlines of frustrated and upset customers is really bad for them. No business wants to be linked to upset mis-informed customers...That is a trust issue in the Verizon Name.
Side note: This refocused energy may also help the DEV work with less noise and clutter. Everyone wants to help which is cool but so many none useful comments. If it was that easy these guys would have already done it. Lets let them reverse engineer things while we use our energy usefully to stir things up on the other end.
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Such a great post :good:
I totally agree and I think this will catch their attention way more than anything we can do online. I'm in.
Wont do anything different. They'll tell you the same thing they told me after I filed a BBB complaint against thrm for my X2. "Your totally right our phones blow, so let me early upgrade you or do ypu want to terminate your contract for X amount of money?"
mike86325 said:
Such a great post :good:
I totally agree and I think this will catch their attention way more than anything we can do online. I'm in.
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Thank you for the kind words, Its the same angle I talk to Verizon about on the 28th the day that they said the Unlimited Data was gone.. I told them that I found out from everyone but them and how they didn't inform me in any way.
We need to get more people on the non informed purchase angle. They make no mention online or anywhere. Sure Pocketnow and like sites do but they are not selling us the phone. Their image is even worse now that Corp and Tech release 2 different statements.
I really hope this gets unlocked easily because I really like the phone really nice feel to it.
This is a good approach. As someone who pitches in with customer service/support for a tech company, it's often the "nice" people who get better responses, and the quantity of requests can have a bigger affect.... way more than one angry person ranting and raving that you can just write off and ignore.
Also, it's still a person at the other end of the line. They probably are not aware of the situation or don't like it either, but it's their job. It's the people at the top that usually push down these horrible policies, the bean counters and such that don't have to deal with the angry public.
I work at a major utility. Please remember that if you call be nice to the customer service representative you are taking to. They are only the messenger, please remember that. They are not allowed too much latitude with what they can do for you. The reason for your call is logged and reviewed by the management of the company so if you call constantly and take up customer service minutes over the locked bootloader you WILL have an impact on daily business and cause management of the company to fix the problem. Calling customer service works.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2
Boss428man said:
Ok I am just going to throw it out there. Please just hold the waves of "can't" and "not gonna work" negativity is just a waste. There are ways to get your voice heard that have worked for me in the past and here is my suggestion. The more the merrier!
Problem is Verizon put a encrypted bootloader on the Samsung Galaxy S3. The bigger problem and the angle we should have is they sold it to us with out letting us know their difference. News of the other S3's sold around the world painted a clear image of what we were getting into... "The same phone." Samsung had used their brand to deliver one device between all networks. Yes there were some cpu changes due to networks but that was noted everywhere. Verizon always note differences in how great there network is and the plus's in their service over others but nothing on the one change they had done to the Galaxy S3 vs the entire world. Obviously because its a negative. Their sales model was we are selling the Galaxy S3 and since we thought we were getting the same product we ordered it. Thats pretty big. Complaining here on xda I think is a waste.., the petition... I did sign btw but unfortunetly is just noise to Verizon. Everyone has to call with the general attitude of being frustrated like they have not been honestly sold a product and that trust was broken.
Don't get mad, don't start going threatening to jump ship... say that this really has broken our trust, don't mention technical info or just lightly because they are not going to have a clue. Say that they made no mention anywhere nor any employee informed you that their device was locked down vs any other and that they do a great job of letting you know market, network, and service differences but didn't lift a finger to let you know about the phone difference being a negative. Lastly listen to what they say as frustrating as it may be and say you want to find a way to rectify this what ever it takes.
Don't make calling your daily task, but just call when you have time... IE ride into work, ride home. Talk to the cust rep and when that fizzles ask for a super. Hang up call again then explain the same frustration and how you even more frustrated with the crappy response the previous rep and that its not acceptable. Just keep asking who you can talk to. If half there customer support traffic is from the locked bootloader and misleading sales thats going to send a pretty good message plus everything else thats going on with news online.
Lastly you could even email them, the more the better. The whole deal here is the message needs to be going to THE MAN... Big Red. Not the message being found out by the man reading it in off of some blog. The additional traffic to their general daily cycle work will send a strong concern message but with the same message of being misleading sales starts to make it a big deal. If this goes mainstream that can be very threatening. There is no guarantee it will work but the more headlines of frustrated and upset customers is really bad for them. No business wants to be linked to upset mis-informed customers...That is a trust issue in the Verizon Name.
Side note: This refocused energy may also help the DEV work with less noise and clutter. Everyone wants to help which is cool but so many none useful comments. If it was that easy these guys would have already done it. Lets let them reverse engineer things while we use our energy usefully to stir things up on the other end.
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I feel for you guys. I really do. We've tried everything with the One X but to no avail. Good luck with your attempts. These carriers need to remember who gives them their money.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
manchild83 said:
I work at a major utility. Please remember that if you call be nice to the customer service representative you are taking to. They are only the messenger, please remember that. They are not allowed too much latitude with what they can do for you. The reason for your call is logged and reviewed by the management of the company so if you call constantly and take up customer service minutes over the locked bootloader you WILL have an impact on daily business and cause management of the company to fix the problem. Calling customer service works.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2
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Thank you for the comment and good to hear your advise!
Ok now we really have been miss sold. The answers I have recieved from support are well making there position worse they said that not only the bricking of devices but that these open devices would take down their data networks do to use. If that is the case why release the "Developer Edition". Everything will break lose anyway. We all pre-ordered thinking we got a unlocked Galaxy S3 and now with out any word of additional editions they try and fix things...?
Where was an unlocked phone advertised or even realistically expected?
It sucks but VZW is so big and doesn't care at all, and won't suffer much from it.
Sent from my AT&T Galaxy SIII (SGH-i747)
yes it was expected since EVER model that has been released thats att tmo sprint international korean and us cellular ALL are unlocked.
Thats it it wasn't printed that it was locked it was advertised just like the other Galaxy s3's... They were sell you the same Galaxy S3 with the same experience you would expect unless other wise noted... which it wasn't... They should just offer to unlock our phones and void the warranty. Simple fix and essentially the same thing they have done with the Developer Edition and it would save them some returns..
Returned my GS4 today (that's not the purpose of this thread, so don't bash me), and when the guy asked why I was returning it, I said it's kind of laggy and not enough of an upgrade over my GS3 to warrant keeping. A few minutes later he asked if I ever "activated" the phone, and I said, "I just stuck my SIM card in and it worked." He responded, "Well that is why your GS4 was slow--you did not activate it properly."
I proceeded to explain to him that I did not mean that data was slow, but that the phone itself was laggy, i.e., opening dialer, taking pictures, etc--stuff that has nothing to do with the SIM card or activation. He nevertheless argued with me and insisted that if I had properly activated it instead of just inserting my SIM card, then it would have functioned better. We argued for a minute or two and then I just gave up and said "fine, I would like to return it anyways, thanks."
Anyways, just thought I'd share. The guy clearly has no idea what he's talking about, but it was worth a laugh.
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
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Lol do these people get ZERO training?
Sent from my HTC One
MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
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Ha. Funniest post so far today...
Ugh, this makes me so angry. These AT&T reps remind me of Best Buy employees that sell computers or phones. They are so used to being the "person that knows everything" that they can't deal with being proved wrong or won't see it any other way. For example, I wanted a Macbook Pro and I knew the onboard video card could run my favorite games at a full 60 fps.. So I asked for a sales person to get me the laptop in the cage. Instead, I was given a lecture by the sales person on why "Macs can't play games" and I should get this HP "gaming" laptop (17 inches, neon lights, etc). I tried to educate him on things like bootcamp, nVidia series numbers, and even the games themselves, but nothing got through. He was told at some point in his life that "Macs can't play games" and that's that.
It's gotten to the point where if I want to cancel a service or return a product and they ask "what was wrong?" I simply say "it wasn't the right fit for me" or "I just want to try something else". It's not worth getting in an argument about because there are no winners and you aren't going to educate anyone that gets paid to sell, sell, sell. Educate yourself ahead of time of the store's policies and if the rep tries to give you sh*t, just ask for a manager and be sure you are able to quote policy if need be.
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.
geokhentix said:
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
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Agree!
It's like people expect that store (best buy, cellular ect) employees all have a BAS or MBA in computer science..
Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
I'm fine with people not knowing if its that important i will usually know about it anyways. I just dislike it when I get a bull crap response in return. If I do receive one I don't make a scene and argue with them. I just thought that response was worth a chuckle or two.
atsim said:
Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
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Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.
geokhentix said:
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.
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I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
As for this being a "degrading community" please get off this forum, as it's clearly not for you.
raqball said:
Agree!
It's like people expect that store (best buy, cellular ect) employees all have a BAS or MBA in computer science..
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My only gripe is when the person you are talking to (best buy, AT&T, etc) claims that they KNOW they are right because they've had some Saturday afternoon training.
See my example above. All I did was ask for a Macbook Pro from the Best Buy rep and I was questioned on my purchase. A more recent example was the AT&T rep asking me why I cared about the release date of the Galaxy S4 because "it's not like this is an iPhone". It shouldn't matter if it's the S4, iPhone or even a dumb phone. Just answer my question and I'll be on my way.
Even when I went to the store to pick up the S4, the AT&T rep started the phone, and logged in as his own Gmail account and installed a "task killer". He had the phone behind the desk where I couldn't see and by the time I had gotten it in my hands, he had logged out of his account. I asked simply "why did you install this?" and he said "well that's so your phone doesn't run slow. Just run that every couple days and your good". I just factory reset as soon as I got in the car and went on my way.
mcmb03 said:
I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
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They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
"Degrading community"; go look at the bootloader unlock thread and see how many people are crying and being impatient and just downright rude because djrbliss decided not to release HIS WORK until he sees necessary, and then tell me this community isn't degrading, and if things keep going in this direction, I will find my way off this forum...Because you are right, it's not for me, because I am not an impatient troll that bites the hand that feeds me just because I don't want to wait a few weeks. I do know that this is irrelevant to this thread, but I thought I'd post it anyway. It bothers me so much. I want to punch everyone being jerks in that thread......right in the face.
No I didn't think it was rude. This is xda though people get crazy over the smallest thing. How many lag threads do we have now? Ahaha things get outta hand fast.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
geokhentix said:
They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
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I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
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Hey, no worries, all in good fun right? I don't condone lying, but they aren't allowed to tell you they don't know, they'll lose their jobs if that happens too often...they're basically forced to lie if they can't give you a definite answer. Damn, if I get one bad survey, my director breathes down my neck like a dragon and threatens to send me to gitmo.
geokhentix said:
Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.
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As a retail sales leader for one of the major 4 in the US I find the OP to have every right to post what he did and use the Thread title he did. The sales rep that helped him in an effing dolt. Along the same lines as the reps that tell customers that they need to condition a Lithium Ion/Lithium Polymer battery. You need to calm down bro.
mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
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Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people
MrGriffdude said:
Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people
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When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding
geokhentix said:
When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding
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Now that people would definitely believe!
Hi guys,
I've been a member of XDA for a while now. I'm not as active as I hoped to be when I joined but I live such a busy life it's impossible to stay on and continuously remain active.
Anyway, to my point and reason for starting this thread. There are certain individuals with the knowledge on this site (and others) whom are fully capable of flashing LTE capable devices. The ones that can be flashed anyway. I'm not talking about illegal flashing, donor phones or anything like that. I'm talking about simple, legal flashing to another wireless carrier such as taking a VZW Galaxy S3 and flashing it to Page+.
I've offered to pay one individual to show/teach me how it's done. I can flash 3G devices without issue. But asking someone to teach you, show you or otherwise provide you with tips on how to flash LTE phones is a lost cause. They use this ability to make money charging $35 a pop to flash phones. And that's fair I guess. If you can do something others cannot then you charge for it right?
But what gets me is that we are Android enthusiast's. An open-source mobile development project that went beyond the expectations of it's original dev's at Google I would imagine. Now, it's arguably the most popular mobile OS in the world. To me it's the most popular anyway, to h3ll with iOS.
Anyway, for us to be all about the open source scene and what not but to refuse to share knowledge about flashing LTE devices because of pure greed is beyond me. We live out lives based on free, open source software but when it comes to something such as flashing LTE devices there is no way anyone will help you learn how to do it or especially show you how to do it.
That's why I'm starting this thread. I want/need to learn how to flash LTE phones to Page Plus. That's it... I run a smartphone shop and often have client's come in wanting options or directly asking me if I can flash a phone to Page+ for them. Well sure! But only if it's a 3G device. :-/
The only other way is for me to use a certain individual who charges $35 to flash the phones remotely. If I try to double it up to $70 then my client's are turned off as there is a shop further away from mine who has a T-Mobile employee there who flashes phones for $35. So I want to be able to offer this service to my clients for the same. I cannot charge them $35, jump online and wait on the person who's name I will not mention to get to me when they can. I make no money, in fact, the time I would have to spend doing this would cost me money because in my field time truly is money.
I need an open source enthusiast whom isn't p0ser. One whom is willing to teach me how to flash LTE phones so that I can offer this service to my customer's. I do not care about the money, I simply want people to know that I can do anything for them at my shop. Telling them I cannot flash LTE phones is just bad for my business in general.
So, with all of that said I would really be impressed if a true enthusiast came out of the wood work to help me with this little problem. Me and the thousands of other individuals who need to know how to flash LTE devices. I mean wow, the things we use this site for... Yet no one will reveal the secrets of LTE flashing. It boggles my mind.
And yes, I've read thread after thread on forum after forum trying to decipher the methods used to flash these phones. I know it's simple, it's as simple as flashing a 3G device to Page+. That's what makes me even more discouraged about it all. It's so easy to do. That means it's easy to teach. I have all of the necessary software do flash nearly any device. But the exact steps to follow are what I am missing.
So, someone, anyone who cares about the open source movement and the ability we have to share knowledge please step forward and show not only me, but everyone here that open source development is not used for profit but for expanding our knowledge. It seems that some of us of gotten off of track over the years. Greed is one of the things that makes Apple a horrible company, it's also what makes people turn into individuals they never meant/hoped to be.
So c'mon guys, let's forget all of the bs and let's get back to our roots here. Who's willing to help me learn how to flash LTE devices? I can offer compensation if I must but again, that would go against the idea behind open source. I simply need to learn how to do this, period. And I'll do whatever I need to do in order to learn.
Thank you all for taking the time to read this and hopefully it will do some good.
Sincerely and Respectfully,
PAinguIN
The info I found here is completely baffling to me. Half the phones listed say they're a 4G device and will work with voice/text/data/ The other half say they won't work because they're 4G phones. So as for the "why" you might be able to flash a particular phone, I don't know. Seems dependent on a phone-by-phone basis.
Does Page Plus even offer LTE service? Does it even offer 4G of any sort (like HSPA+)? The coverage map on their website only lists EV-DO for data. Plans list amounts of data, but make no mention of 4G or LTE.
Or are you merely trying to get LTE capable Verizon phones to work with Page Plus service, regardless of what actual speed of data they can get?
There's many aspects of this that I don't understand. Are you the operator of a corporate-owned store? Are you a franchise? Do you operate as an authorized representative of Page Plus, as well as other MVNOs? I really don't know how these type of shops work, although I see them everywhere.
Offering to flash for free might be breaking some sort of contract or something. I agree that it's greedy to charge so much for so quick/simple a task, but I'm not surprised they charge so much either, since bringing a phone and paying the money to flash it is way cheaper than buying a new phone (and the phone selection on their website is craptacular - just plain awful), so they get the money where they can.
The software to flash phones in this way, I'm betting, took a lot of development, time, and money. The fact that this service isn't available to you, and must be done through a separate, paid service, means to me that they're keeping this to themselves for reasons that should be obvious.
XDA is a community devoted to developing and "hacking" (primarily) the Android system. What you're looking for has far less to do with Android. and more to do with the carriers themselves. Some phones can be flashed, some can't. Or rather, ones that "can't" perhaps can, but would require a bunch of R&D to get done, and isn't worth it to find out. What I mean to say is that what you're asking for probably won't be done. Not without forking over a ton of money, because what you'd expect/hope to do is impossible, and the people who could do it have already done so, and they are the very people who offer this service at $55 a pop because it took a lot of time and money to figure out how to do it.
And no personal offense intended, but Page Plus looks like a horrible choice to go with for anyone who expects to use a smartphone. The phone selection sucks beyond comprehension. Seriously, the only thing it has going for it besides its cheap rates is that it has Verizon's coverage. But who needs that kind of coverage? Probably people that can afford Verizon's actual plans and can enjoy its LTE network and/or travel across the country a lot, and wouldn't bother with this joke of a company in the first place. Bring your own 4G phone? Why? Go with a Verzion pre-paid plan. Or tell Big Red to stick it and go with a company that doesn't anally rape their customers, like T-Mobile. It just seems to me that there's better options, including Verizon-powered MVNOs than Page Plus. When it comes to smartphones, anyway. Basic voice/text plans are probably OK.
Whatever. I don't know why I spent so much time responding to your post. I sincerely wish you success in your business. The world certainly needs people like you that want to give their customers what they need for as little money as possible, and with as little nickel-and-diming (ass-raping) as necessary. But the software/hardware/firmware limitations on so many phones made for the US market make what you're hoping for a physical and/or logistical/financial impossibility (or, simply, more than it's worth) to realize.
Planterz said:
The info I found here is completely baffling to me. Half the phones listed say they're a 4G device and will work with voice/text/data/ The other half say they won't work because they're 4G phones. So as for the "why" you might be able to flash a particular phone, I don't know. Seems dependent on a phone-by-phone basis.
Does Page Plus even offer LTE service? Does it even offer 4G of any sort (like HSPA+)? The coverage map on their website only lists EV-DO for data. Plans list amounts of data, but make no mention of 4G or LTE.
Or are you merely trying to get LTE capable Verizon phones to work with Page Plus service, regardless of what actual speed of data they can get?
There's many aspects of this that I don't understand. Are you the operator of a corporate-owned store? Are you a franchise? Do you operate as an authorized representative of Page Plus, as well as other MVNOs? I really don't know how these type of shops work, although I see them everywhere.
Offering to flash for free might be breaking some sort of contract or something. I agree that it's greedy to charge so much for so quick/simple a task, but I'm not surprised they charge so much either, since bringing a phone and paying the money to flash it is way cheaper than buying a new phone (and the phone selection on their website is craptacular - just plain awful), so they get the money where they can.
The software to flash phones in this way, I'm betting, took a lot of development, time, and money. The fact that this service isn't available to you, and must be done through a separate, paid service, means to me that they're keeping this to themselves for reasons that should be obvious.
XDA is a community devoted to developing and "hacking" (primarily) the Android system. What you're looking for has far less to do with Android. and more to do with the carriers themselves. Some phones can be flashed, some can't. Or rather, ones that "can't" perhaps can, but would require a bunch of R&D to get done, and isn't worth it to find out. What I mean to say is that what you're asking for probably won't be done. Not without forking over a ton of money, because what you'd expect/hope to do is impossible, and the people who could do it have already done so, and they are the very people who offer this service at $55 a pop because it took a lot of time and money to figure out how to do it.
And no personal offense intended, but Page Plus looks like a horrible choice to go with for anyone who expects to use a smartphone. The phone selection sucks beyond comprehension. Seriously, the only thing it has going for it besides its cheap rates is that it has Verizon's coverage. But who needs that kind of coverage? Probably people that can afford Verizon's actual plans and can enjoy its LTE network and/or travel across the country a lot, and wouldn't bother with this joke of a company in the first place. Bring your own 4G phone? Why? Go with a Verzion pre-paid plan. Or tell Big Red to stick it and go with a company that doesn't anally rape their customers, like T-Mobile. It just seems to me that there's better options, including Verizon-powered MVNOs than Page Plus. When it comes to smartphones, anyway. Basic voice/text plans are probably OK.
Whatever. I don't know why I spent so much time responding to your post. I sincerely wish you success in your business. The world certainly needs people like you that want to give their customers what they need for as little money as possible, and with as little nickel-and-diming (ass-raping) as necessary. But the software/hardware/firmware limitations on so many phones made for the US market make what you're hoping for a physical and/or logistical/financial impossibility (or, simply, more than it's worth) to realize.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Planterz,
Yes, I'm just trying to get LTE capable VZW (and certain Sprint phones as rare as they are) to work on P+. I know 3G speeds are possible but as you pointed out 4G LTE is not. That's not really important. As long as SMS, MMS, and mobile web is there then my client's will be happy.
And no, I'm not an authorized Page+ provider. The shop I own started from something I did on the side for extra money. I'm an IT guy by trade but about 3 months ago I decided to resign from my day job, focus on phones and now I'm opening my own shop! It has really been amazing!
But anyway, I plan on becoming an authorized P+ provider because from what I read it's very easy to do so. From what i understand it is perfectly legal to flash devices that Page Plus supports (and some that they do not) to their network. It will, however, automatically cancel any contract that was previously associated with the phone. This will result in early termination fees and all of that jazz. Oh, and this is only if you flash it while it's active on an account. If it is not attached to a wireless carrier then there's nothing to worry about.
And, you are right, XDA is primarily devoted to the development of 3rd party, open source Android OS's. The hacking, well, the hacking comes in place when devices will not let you unlock their boot loader. Such as Samsung. You cannot unlock the bootloader on an S4 (not sure about the S5) yet... And Samsung does not help you with this. They do not encourage unlocking the boot loader.. HTC, however, encourages you to and provides you with the means to unlock your boot loader free of charge. This is one of the main reasons's I have used HTC phones for the last 4-5 years. Since the EVO was released and then the HTC One M7.
But still, what is done here on XDA is much more than simply hacking phones and development. There are lots of threads associated with flashing and some of them have very useful info if you're wanting to flash a 3G device. (Which is easy by the way). But, LTE devices... Unfortunately the story is not the same.
I was just hoping someone could point me in the right direction or be so kind as to show me how it's down or send me the process for flashing, say, a Galaxy S3 on VZW (which is an LTE device). It only takes about 5-10 minutes...
And, lol!!! You have the wrong idea about my shop. I started buying and selling smartphones a couple of years ago. I've worked in the IT field for over a decade and have many loyal clients on the side. Slowly, I began to learn how to repair iPhone's and Android devices. I found a guy who did repairs, a local university student, he and I partnered up. We split everythihng 50/50. Things went surprisingly well! He graduated in May and moved back home, reluctantly...
I continued to carry the torch... My shop is not going to be a Page Plus shop. We have places named "Talk Unlimited" around here that serve that purpose. But as I said, I just hate having to tell people it's going to cost them $75 for a $35 job or even have to send them to Talk Unlimited whom charges $75 as well.
So no, we offer a wide array of services for smartphones including buying/selling. In addition, we offer services in the IT field which cover the entire spectrum. From computer repair and virus removal to enterprise level networking and defense contracting.
I gave up a darn good job and have staked everything I have in this business. So it has to be the BEST! It must offer what other's are incapable of offering and do so much cheaper. Which we do... And in the grand scheme of things being able to flash LTE phones really doesn't matter. But it's only good business to be able to provide the service if needed by a client.
I should have been more clear on that when I started the thread. So once again, no, I am not opening up a shop providing only flashing services to Page Plus and their crappie phones. And they are crappy, just as you pointed out. LOL!
With all of that said, do you know anyone I can speak to or any thread I can check out? Vip3r is the one whom I've used in the past. He knows his stuff, but he will not teach me how to do it. Not even if I pay him. And I understand, he has his reasons. I do not hold it against him. But i need to be able to offer this service if the time comes to where another client needs a solution and flashing to P+ is the only one you know?
Thank you for posting. Perhaps your post will help get a conversation started or something with some answers. Lol!
Thanks again Planterz!
PAinguIN
It's only a matter of time...
As my title states, "It's only a matter of time.". Once I discover how to flash LTE devices I will post my findings here. For everyone to see, read and use. To me, this is the only fair way to do things. Keeping open knowledge from others and forcing them to spend hours and hours online (which I don't have) to find all of the little answers needed is simply not an option for me nor is it for most others.
It appears that I'm missing out on only one or two steps in the process. I guess I'm going to have to ruin a few of my LTE devices as I try to learn this on my own. The process is (I would say) 90% similar to flashing a VZW iPhone 4 to Page Plus. But with a couple of missing steps. I need these steps.
If/when I discover how to do this on my own I will post it in this thread for EVERYONE to see. No longer will people have to ask questions about LTE flashing. Because it will ALL be RIGHT HERE! Mark my word, as soon as I discover what I'm doing wrong and perfect the process then it will be posted here in absolute detail.
If anyone has any information to contribute to this thread I, personally, and many, many others would be more grateful than you could possibly imagine.
Thanks,
PAinguIN
I am now an authorized P+ dealer...
And as time goes by I will piece together the puzzle of flashing non-VZW phones to P+ with MMS/SMS and at least 3G.
If anyone has any insight or tips into this please share.
Thanks!