I've used the Galaxy S2 as my first phone when it was released (the day I decided to become an Android Fan Boy), I've used two <100$ phones that run Android including Redmi 5A. I made sure to get my hands on the OP2 when it was released in India and I've bought the Poco F1 twice (first got flushed drown a drain) all over a span of 8+ years.
I've installed over 50 custom ROMs on mine and my parents' phones (Redmi Note 4, Yu Yureka) and my on laptop too. I've loved CyanogenMod and consequently LineageOS too and they have always shown how powerful a phone can become if you've got the right software.
I've stayed up to date on the latest tech news on a daily basis and I've always looked for phones that have truly stood out (Most of the phones I've purchased have caught eyeballs and wallets of many during their times and in their categories). I've run my hands down a lot of other devices too.
Despite so many great devices being launched, 3 year old iPhones are still among popular best-sellers in the entry level premium segment.
If there's anything that can really challenge the mid-tier dominance of 3 year old iPhones, it is a mind blowing H/W (from someone like Poco) and the OS in it's purest form - Stock Android with UPDATES (this is not emphasized enough).
Though Nokia and Motorola offer these, they often cut costs on H/W.
Xiaomi always makes a "just good enough" implementation of Android One, so as to not cannibalize its own series.
After using the Poco F1, I've realized this phone is exactly everything I need and nothing I don't (which is their motto), but with Android One. I'm pretty sure a lot of Poco Users would resonate, the 90k Pixel Experience ROM downloads, beryllium(code-name) being one of the most popular phones for all major after-market ROMs is a big indicator of an underlying need. Given that Poco has become an independent unit (which basically means they have greater control over marketing and software) and they're planning to launch maybe 1-3 devices (too many rumors) this could be a great pivot point for them.
It's been a dream waiting to happen for years, a true Android One phone + High End H/W + A cost that puts everything else to shame. And I don't think anyone else is poised to do that better than Poco. It's a great strategy to pivot away into a quasi-premium line and compete with High End Chinese + Starting Range OnePlus/Nokia Premium Phones. This is the category that most first time buyers of premium-ish phones flock to.
If all the feedback all over the years has said anything it is this - People want the best H/W with the purest experience of Android and a bang for your buck. In the end it's Xiaomi (Mi, Redmi, Poco) vs BBK (Oppo, Vivo, OP, Realme) anyway (I don't assume Samsung and Huawei would really focus on this given their sheer size and investments in core technologies such as silicon, imaging and network technology).
Poco could be an outlet for all of Xiaomi's best performing H/W tweaked to their philosophy of keeping everything you need and nothing you don't to re-birth as Android One Phones.
I mean why isn't anyone doing this, and why isn't Poco doing it!
Because no one cares about Stock/Pure Android
If you're on XDA anyway might as well flash Pixel Experience and keep on keeping on. I dont know about the ins and outs of making an Android One device, but it would probably involve licensing with Google, and actually not that many people dislike MIUI as you might think. 100K downloads on PE means nothing compares to the total amount of users that didnt even bother to change away from MIUI, or changing ROMs at all
OK - I'm sure this might not be a popular thread, but a little help is why this forum exists - I hope?
I currently have a Sony Xperia Z5 Compact, and I'm looking to upgrade to a phone that has AT LEAST the same level of waterproofing, and a significant improvement in memory & processing power.
I'm also looking for something smaller than a 6" screen (preferably smaller than 5.5")
I'd like to have an SDcard slot, but don't need a 2nd Sim.
I'd like a phone that's going to have at least one OS upgrade (preferably to 12 when it arrives), does that still happen*?
I'd prefer not to have a Samsung, the cleanest Android OS possible would be preferable.
I am leaning towards a 'rugged' phone because I am a klutz and don't like using a case if possible.
* I haven't paid attention to the smartphone markets for a few years - the choice now is massive and overwhelming, and none of the specification comparison sites seem to have 'all' the available phones, often they're limited to Samsung/Apple/Xiomi and not much more (unless of course I simply can't find the one comparison site that truly has them all)
Riceburner said:
OK - I'm sure this might not be a popular thread, but a little help is why this forum exists - I hope?
I currently have a Sony Xperia Z5 Compact, and I'm looking to upgrade to a phone that has AT LEAST the same level of waterproofing, and a significant improvement in memory & processing power.
I'm also looking for something smaller than a 6" screen (preferably smaller than 5.5")
I'd like to have an SDcard slot, but don't need a 2nd Sim.
I'd like a phone that's going to have at least one OS upgrade (preferably to 12 when it arrives), does that still happen*?
I'd prefer not to have a Samsung, the cleanest Android OS possible would be preferable.
I am leaning towards a 'rugged' phone because I am a klutz and don't like using a case if possible.
* I haven't paid attention to the smartphone markets for a few years - the choice now is massive and overwhelming, and none of the specification comparison sites seem to have 'all' the available phones, often they're limited to Samsung/Apple/Xiomi and not much more (unless of course I simply can't find the one comparison site that truly has them all)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since I live in europe, my personal fav is this website. Even if you don't live in EU, that site has an astonishingly good filter for products (they list the products even if no seller is available with all possible variants/last known price).
If you go to the mobile section and use the filter, you would need to apply a special features filter (namely the waterproof [submerged] IP65/IP68) filter. Adding the fact that you want a phone under 5.7" display size, I have found 370 phones ranging from 2011-2021 regardless of their OS or SoC (they have windows phones listed as well ).
You have a selection of 370 phones with your only limit being the price and the android 12 condition, both of which depend on you.
A reminder: Newer phones released in 2020 and up (shipped with android 10 or higher to be eligible for 12) are almost always 6" or bigger, phones such as pixel or OnePlus do come in smaller sizes, but they shy away from 3.5mmjack/sdcard and aren't as rugged. Maybe look into a phone with good android 11 custom ROM support in XDA forums. My personal fav device in your requirements would be a pixel 4a/5a if you're willing to forgo the sdcard/rugged part.
Slim K said:
Since I live in europe, my personal fav is this website. Even if you don't live in EU, that site has an astonishingly good filter for products (they list the products even if no seller is available with all possible variants/last known price).
If you go to the mobile section and use the filter, you would need to apply a special features filter (namely the waterproof [submerged] IP65/IP68) filter. Adding the fact that you want a phone under 5.7" display size, I have found 370 phones ranging from 2011-2021 regardless of their OS or SoC (they have windows phones listed as well ).
You have a selection of 370 phones with your only limit being the price and the android 12 condition, both of which depend on you.
A reminder: Newer phones released in 2020 and up (shipped with android 10 or higher to be eligible for 12) are almost always 6" or bigger, phones such as pixel or OnePlus do come in smaller sizes, but they shy away from 3.5mmjack/sdcard and aren't as rugged. Maybe look into a phone with good android 11 custom ROM support in XDA forums. My personal fav device in your requirements would be a pixel 4a/5a if you're willing to forgo the sdcard/rugged part.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THAT is a useful link, many thanks!
Hi all,
I'm the type of person that doesn't really renew hardware until it dies out, and don't usually care for too fancy things either, so I keep my budget as low as possible.
I do appreciate vfm choices though, so I do pay for what features I can fit in my budget.
I also highly value a clean, bloatware-free software experience, good support (security updates and updates in general), that's why I've always been at least somewhat in touch with the custom ROM community so that I can keep my phones alive for as much as possible).
That said, I have a Redmi Note 4X (served me well for about 4 years, currently running PixelExperience) that is dying on me, so I've been checking out budget options (ideally around the 200 +-25% euros range).
I'm very sad to see that Xiaomi (which I've always preached to friends as best vfm, despite my despise of MiUI) is adopting the anti-OSS approach of MTK hardware, while at the same time has resentfully moved away from it's Android One phones and initiative (https://www.xda-developers.com/xiaomi-deletes-twitter-poll-android-one-miui/).
Similarly other budget choices seem to follow way (eg Samsung budget lines).
I was hoping to buy into 5G with my new device since some 5G towers are starting to appear in my country's big cities, but with a quick search I see that if I back out of 5G, I might still have some 4G options that can keep me in the Snapdragon realm and therefore the custom ROM community.
All that said, what would be my best vfm low budget choices with the current market?
Also please feel free and encouraged to comment on my perception of Mediatek gaining market share and it's effect on the community.
I'd find it interesting to see a different perspective on it if anyone has one.
Hi, if you are fixed on the ~200,- Euro price range go for a used Pixel3 in good condition. In a big german portal ("ebay-Kleinanzeigen") you can grab one in the price range of 150-180,-. i buyed one for 110,- and another for 140,-. My other productive phone is a Pixel2 running LOS18.1 currently. I buyed it to play/test but it is a very good device, so i started to love it ( ) and i use it as my daily business driver. You should be able to get one at ~ 100,- Euros.
The other alternative is the Pixel5. Disadvantage: its new and used one are at €~400-500,- currently. I expect that the price will go down when the Pixel6 is out in the market . The P5 is well supported with LOS either.
Edit: Have to tell that a screen size of 6"/ Height of 145-150 Millimeter is the maximum for me. I dont want a tablet, yes most current phones are tablets!
I think used* or an older new* discounted phone are viable options.
5G is overrated and not needed.
I just picked up a second new N10+ 4G running on Q although my savings weren't tremendous, the phone is.
That's what I think about the latest generation of technology and Android OS... not much.
The chip shortage will continue into 2022-3 more than likely. Grab it while you can as prices are still climbing. Tough times and more are likely coming.
*only from known good vendors. Protect yourself fully! A lot of scamming and misleading advertising going on now. Best to talk to the vendor on the phone first.
zimral.xda said:
Hi, if you are fixed on the ~200,- Euro price range go for a used Pixel3 in good condition. In a big german portal ("ebay-Kleinanzeigen") you can grab one in the price range of 150-180,-. i buyed one for 110,- and another for 140,-. My other productive phone is a Pixel2 running LOS18.1 currently. I buyed it to play/test but it is a very good device, so i started to love it ( ) and i use it as my daily business driver. You should be able to get one at ~ 100,- Euros.
The other alternative is the Pixel5. Disadvantage: its new and used one are at €~400-500,- currently. I expect that the price will go down when the Pixel6 is out in the market . The P5 is well supported with LOS either.
Edit: Have to tell that a screen size of 6"/ Height of 145-150 Millimeter is the maximum for me. I dont want a tablet, yes most current phones are tablets!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I am kinda fixed on the price. Could maybe go up to 250 but anything over that would be a waste for my personal needs.
To be honest I'm slightly skeptical about the used market especially at this time since the shortage seems to have promoted scamming
That said a lot of people have suggested used Pixels as being great value so I'll still think of this option, thanks for your insight!
blackhawk said:
I think used* or an older new* discounted phone are viable options.
5G is overrated and not needed.
I just picked up a second new N10+ 4G running on Q although my savings weren't tremendous, the phone is.
That's what I think about the latest generation of technology and Android OS... not much.
The chip shortage will continue into 2022-3 more than likely. Grab it while you can as prices are still climbing. Tough times and more are likely coming.
*only from known good vendors. Protect yourself fully! A lot of scamming and misleading advertising going on now. Best to talk to the vendor on the phone first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As stated just above ^, I'm slightly skeptical of the current used market.
I bet the N10+ is an amazing device, however its way out of my budget (~870) and, honestly, an overkill for my needs.
Would you have any suggestions for an "older new" phone around that budget with a snapdragon
From my searches on the biggest local search engines for tech products since I posted this, the only new options that come up which mostly fill my needs appear to be:
- Moto G 5G Plus (4GB ~220)
- Oppo A72 (~210)
- Oppo A74 (~240)
- Xiaomi Redmi 9T (~170)
- Xiaomi Poco M3 (~170)
- Xiaomi Poco X3 (6GB ~200 / 8GB ~235)
Pretty much everything else has Mediatek.
Would any of those be a good choice with solid support for custom ROMs?
Are there any others out of this list available on EU vendors?
My area of interest in phones is pretty narrow.
Mostly Samsung as it crosses over to my device. The Note 9 seems nice and their price is down now.
I don't root so I'm not the best one to advise you on that.
Maybe get the phone through a carrier deal and distribute the payments over time.
Again it's better to avoid Android 11 and above.
You said your phone is "dying", it may be easier to repair it for now to get more room to maneuver.
@Joakpa
Taiwan's MediaTek has not suffered in any way from the global shortage in the semiconductor market
With regards to Custom ROMs:
Custom ROMs ( mostly ) simply are AOSP based de-bloated Android versions: they aren't compiled to be run on Android device with a specific SoC, they only must match SoC's architecture ( either 32-bit or 64-bit ).
With regards to SoC:
Only when it comes to play high-end games ( video editing, and similar CPU demanding tasks ) the type of SoC is of interest: MediaTek SoCs are a good choice for daily use tasks, whereas Qualcomm's Snapdragon and/or Exynos SoC and also Hisilicon Kirin SoC are the right choice if heavy task must get done, IMO.
In any case it should be at least a 8-cores 64-bit SoC to get Android flawlessly running.
@jwoegerbauer
Taiwan's MediaTek has not suffered in any way from the global shortage in the semiconductor market
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's my point exactly... the result of this has been that more and more phones (eg Xiaomi's budget lines) that used to be based on Qualcomm Snapdragon (which HAS suffered from the shortage: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chip-shortage-qualcomm-idUSKBN2B32OO https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/qu...hip-shortage-stretching-into-2022-11627504790) are now turning to MediaTek, therefore hurting the reach of the custom ROM community to the extent of the budget phone market.
With regards to Custom ROMs: / With regards to SoC:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do understand that. And it appears that you probably do understand exactly what I am referring to as well. Your own answers to this thread shows you do. MediaTek is a nightmare for custom development (Edit: mostly due to closed-source if it's not already clear enough), and compatibility of custom ROMs is a requirement as I've explained. Therefore MediaTek phones are out of the question for me.
My favorite budget phone for custom ROM is the Motorola Moto G8 Power. $220 CAD
Joakpa said:
@jwoegerbauer
That's my point exactly... the result of this has been that more and more phones (eg Xiaomi's budget lines) that used to be based on Qualcomm Snapdragon (which HAS suffered from the shortage: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chip-shortage-qualcomm-idUSKBN2B32OO https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/qu...hip-shortage-stretching-into-2022-11627504790) are now turning to MediaTek, therefore hurting the reach of the custom ROM community to the extent of the budget phone market.
I do understand that. And it appears that you probably do understand exactly what I am referring to as well. Your own answers to this thread shows you do. MediaTek is a nightmare for custom development (Edit: mostly due to closed-source if it's not already clear enough), and compatibility of custom ROMs is a requirement as I've explained. Therefore MediaTek phones are out of the question for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't write for just writing an opinion.
But considering the same position I was in years ago as you write yourself today so I have a few pennies to donate.
Spoiler: read if you want
I was skeptical of mediatek phones until I researched more and asked more. I found a good person who explained and showed me how much mediatek phones would evolve over time. Yes! I was a loyal Qualcomm user for the rest of my life if I didn't have this guy to give me new insight.
Not! I haven't stopped using phones with Qualcomm. But I went to personally verify everything that was said precisely because I was urged to really have my opinion.
In the beginning everything was weird and hard to understand. But for those who have knowledge in qualcomm, even if little, it was very easy to deal with and understand the steps to have Custom recovery and Custom ROM.
There were 4 mediatek phones in my hands and what I saw over time was a large community of people helping each other and new knowledge that I didn't have.
So the lesson for custom recovery and many ROMs is to have a developer or person who has a lot of knowledge to create everything smoothly. Mediatek's Source Code has been a big issue in the past. Research the number of mediatek phones that have custom rom partially working and fully working. It's bigger than having exclusivity for a particular qualcomm phone with a fully functional ROM.
Yes! Qualcomm phones are faster and easier with custom ROM. It still needs a developer with the skills and time to have something bug free.
Many qualcomm developers also know how to do something with mediatek phones. So the word about Custom ROM development is: having a good developer.
The bad part: Many qualcomm users make donations either by phone or in $. But it is difficult or rare for mediatek users to make donations either by phone or $.
As for your current question: without good money to buy something new and decent, no doubt choose a good phone with qualcomm. To get a different view, buy 2 used phones one with qualcomm and one with mediatek (choose the best SOC, processor and good RAM, battery and processor) within budget. This will give you a unique experience and your opinion at the time.
We are now with GSI and many A9;A10;A11 phones already have the ability to handle minor bugs without having the help of developers.
Good luck on your journey.
DragonPitbull said:
I wouldn't write for just writing an opinion.
But considering the same position I was in years ago as you write yourself today so I have a few pennies to donate.
Spoiler: read if you want
I was skeptical of mediatek phones until I researched more and asked more. I found a good person who explained and showed me how much mediatek phones would evolve over time. Yes! I was a loyal Qualcomm user for the rest of my life if I didn't have this guy to give me new insight.
Not! I haven't stopped using phones with Qualcomm. But I went to personally verify everything that was said precisely because I was urged to really have my opinion.
In the beginning everything was weird and hard to understand. But for those who have knowledge in qualcomm, even if little, it was very easy to deal with and understand the steps to have Custom recovery and Custom ROM.
There were 4 mediatek phones in my hands and what I saw over time was a large community of people helping each other and new knowledge that I didn't have.
So the lesson for custom recovery and many ROMs is to have a developer or person who has a lot of knowledge to create everything smoothly. Mediatek's Source Code has been a big issue in the past. Research the number of mediatek phones that have custom rom partially working and fully working. It's bigger than having exclusivity for a particular qualcomm phone with a fully functional ROM.
Yes! Qualcomm phones are faster and easier with custom ROM. It still needs a developer with the skills and time to have something bug free.
Many qualcomm developers also know how to do something with mediatek phones. So the word about Custom ROM development is: having a good developer.
The bad part: Many qualcomm users make donations either by phone or in $. But it is difficult or rare for mediatek users to make donations either by phone or $.
As for your current question: without good money to buy something new and decent, no doubt choose a good phone with qualcomm. To get a different view, buy 2 used phones one with qualcomm and one with mediatek (choose the best SOC, processor and good RAM, battery and processor) within budget. This will give you a unique experience and your opinion at the time.
We are now with GSI and many A9;A10;A11 phones already have the ability to handle minor bugs without having the help of developers.
Good luck on your journey.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me start by saying I really appreciate your message!
I always like to see a different perspective on any of my views and having them challenged
You are absolutely right about the effect of a good dev being in control of said custom ROM development for ANY device, however (in my experience) developing for something closed source is more often than not "guesswork" and "hacks/workarounds". A good dev surely can often guess right, but it is still guessing. Write some code that guesses the output of system A and the input of system B, then bind them together so that you establish an interface from A to B. Now, there is a driver update for system A (and/or B), your interface is broken and your hard work is void...
You might be right about donations playing a part in it (I have no knowledge around that but I could see it being true), but I can also see developers not wanting to put time and effort into developing something that could crumble down at any given time (and it being out of their control). Of-course you could ignore driver/firmware updates or whatever other updates, but then what's really the point of developing past official Vendor Support periods anyway?
To get a different view, buy 2 used phones one with qualcomm and one with mediatek (choose the best SOC, processor and good RAM, battery and processor) within budget. This will give you a unique experience and your opinion at the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My current finances do not encourage playing around with multiple phones at a time (I could, but it would not be ideal ) and I'm only looking to buy a new one mostly out of necessity, however I will keep your suggestion in mind for once I get the chance to have a bit more wiggle room in my budget. That said, do you have some specific MTK device in mind that you've seen having reasonable to solid support of ROMs?
Thanks again for taking the time to contribute to the conversation!
It tooks me a total of >~ 5 years to find "my" phone. I tried alot of them all buyed used or old ones from my wife & daughters. Huawei 8860, Mate20, P10, Xiaomi Redmi3, iphone5, Samsung A8, Samsung XCoverPro, GalaxyS5mini, GalaxyGIO, GalaxyS5 just some to name. At the end of the day i will stay with the famous GalaxyS5 as long as they run LOS and for real Production/Daily driver the Pixel2 and the Pixel3. I do not pay more than 120-150 € per phone. Point. I am able to select and buy used phones without getting ripped off. My next phone in ~ 2 years or so will be a used Pixel5. I dont want a phone without IP68. I am able to open a phone case and replace batterys, i have the knowledge and all necessary tools. And i like smaller phones.
I made a list of features i want: IP68, max height of 145mm, replaceable battery, headphone jack, good LOS support, good camera at night shots.
It is nearly impossible to get all of these so i removed the replaceable battery and the headphone jack.
And i end up buying..... PIXELS. Except the Pixel4 due to the bad battery and the Pixel4a due to the missing IP67/68.
mediatek and xiaomi are best supported rom in community if you want custom rom.
As of end of 2022, only Samsung phones come with their own Dialer (with automatic silent call recording feature).
Most other popular brands like OnePlus, Xiaomi, and others are now using Google Dialer on their phones (in Global markets except China). This is to the point that one can't even install the OEM dialer without dangerous workarounds that will have other implications.
Can anyone share precise reasons (no speculation) on why this is so?
Even though I read about how nations are penalizing Google for anti-competitive practices, the situation on the ground continues to get worse: more and more Google apps out of the box.
TheMystic said:
As of end of 2022, only Samsung phones come with their own Dialer (with automatic silent call recording feature).
Most other popular brands like OnePlus, Xiaomi, and others are now using Google Dialer on their phones (in Global markets except China). This is to the point that one can't even install the OEM dialer without dangerous workarounds that will have other implications.
Can anyone share precise reasons (no speculation) on why this is so?
Even though I read about how nations are penalizing Google for anti-competitive practices, the situation on the ground continues to get worse: more and more Google apps out of the box.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OEMs would rather use the Google suite than develop their own software. The only outlier is Samsung, who for whatever reason, still thinks they're a software company.
Why dedicate additional resources to unnecessary development when there is a fully developed and polished common Gapps suite available?
V0latyle said:
OEMs would rather use the Google suite than develop their own software. The only outlier is Samsung, who for whatever reason, still thinks they're a software company.
Why dedicate additional resources to unnecessary development when there is a fully developed and polished common Gapps suite available?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The dialer is the most basic application and all OEMs (except Nothing and may be Motorola too) were/ are having their own Dialer. In China and some other markets, the phones come with OEM dialer even today.
They don't have to dedicate additional resources to compete with Google Dialer (which has smart features), but why aren't they letting the user make that decision?
The global software actually blocks their own Dialer from working if it is sideloaded. This appears to be just another instance of Google's monopolistic dominance, despite all the regulations and penalties prohibiting such behaviour.
TheMystic said:
The dialer is the most basic application and all OEMs (except Nothing and may be Motorola too) were/ are having their own Dialer. In China and some other markets, the phones come with OEM dialer even today.
They don't have to dedicate additional resources to compete with Google Dialer (which has smart features), but why aren't they letting the user make that decision?
The global software actually blocks their own Dialer from working if it is sideloaded. This appears to be just another instance of Google's monopolistic dominance, despite all the regulations and penalties prohibiting such behaviour.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that would be more to blame on the firmware OEM than Google, but I suppose it's a matter of perspective.
V0latyle said:
The only outlier is Samsung, who for whatever reason, still thinks they're a software company.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha, ha! Samsung - I really used to like 'em. Now? I spread my indifference as thick as your sarcastic observation here.
GOOGLE_USER said:
Ha, ha! Samsung - I really used to like 'em. Now? I spread my indifference as thick as your sarcastic observation here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like the Sammy dialer, never crashes but it has its quirks.
Samsung... has done nothing but disappoint and drop balls since the N10+, the zenith point for Sammy. Even today after 3+ years it remains my weapon of choice. Unfortunately Samsung has given me zer0 incentive to buy a newer Samsung flagship model. They suck now. So bad that a year ago I bought another new N10+ running on Q, no regrets especially now.
After Android 10 Google made a big smelly mess of the Android OS, it reeks of iPhone now. Pie remainder my favorite OS and my original N10+ will never be upgraded.
Gookill...
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V0latyle said:
The only outlier is Samsung, who for whatever reason, still thinks they're a software company.
Why dedicate additional resources to unnecessary development when there is a fully developed and polished common Gapps suite available?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So should monopoly be encouraged?
And Bixby is very good these days, even though it hasn't been able to get rid of the bad reputation it gained for itself initially.
V0latyle said:
I think that would be more to blame on the firmware OEM than Google, but I suppose it's a mtter of perspective.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On my OnePlus 8T, when it was on Android 11, there is a OnePlus Dialer apk (either a mod or one extracted from the Chinese ROM) that worked perfectly fine.
But after upgrading to Android 12 and now 13, it doesn't work. It's been over a year since Android 12 was launched, and yet there is no compatible apk. The workarounds involve rooting the device or installing a ROM from another region such as China/ Indonesia, etc, all of which shouldn't be necessary.
It appears Google is paying these brands a lot of money, in violation (in principle) of the regulations prohibiting anti-competitive practices.
blackhawk said:
I like the Sammy dialer, never crashes but it has its quirks.
Samsung... has done nothing but disappoint and drop balls since the N10+, the zenith point for Sammy. Even today after 3+ years it remains my weapon of choice. Unfortunately Samsung has given me zer0 incentive to buy a newer Samsung flagship model. They suck now. So bad that a year ago I bought another new N10+ running on Q, no regrets especially now.
After Android 10 Google made a big smelly mess of the Android OS, it reeks of iPhone now. Pie remainder my favorite OS and my original N10+ will never be upgraded.
Gookill...
View attachment 5802393
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know why you keep saying this about OneUI. I have OneUI on my S22U and it is excellent (ofcourse there are some deficiencies and areas requiring improvement).
I'm going to stick with Samsung as my primary phone for primarily two reasons:
1. Excellent cameras (zoom feature is unmatched ).
2. Silent Automatic call recording feature.
There are other good reasons too, but these are my primary considerations now.
TheMystic said:
The dialer is the most basic application and all OEMs (except Nothing and may be Motorola too) were/ are having their own Dialer. In China and some other markets, the phones come with OEM dialer even today.
They don't have to dedicate additional resources to compete with Google Dialer (which has smart features), but why aren't they letting the user make that decision?
The global software actually blocks their own Dialer from working if it is sideloaded. This appears to be just another instance of Google's monopolistic dominance, despite all the regulations and penalties prohibiting such behaviour.
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Since Samsung started with their Tizen crap, they have been trying to copy Apple's tactic of trying to separate themselves from everyone else with a white knuckle grip on their hardware and software. Apple crap only works with Apple crap and Samsung crap only works with Samsung crap.
Droidriven said:
Since Samsung started with their Tizen crap, they have been trying to copy Apple's tactic of trying to separate themselves from everyone else with a white knuckle grip on their hardware and software. Apple crap only works with Apple crap and Samsung crap only works with Samsung crap.
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Trying to be self reliant, even if it means copying a competitor, is a good thing. And having more options to choose from is essential to limit/ prevent monopoly. This not only helps with innovation, but also translates into lower prices for consumers.
It is unfortunate that Tizen failed. But i wish they could revive it and come up with an alternative to iOS and Android.
Talking of crap, Apple is still unbeatable in some areas, no matter how much crap a section of consumers talk about it.
TheMystic said:
So should monopoly be encouraged?
And Bixby is very good these days, even though it hasn't been able to get rid of the bad reputation it gained for itself initially.
I don't know why you keep saying this about OneUI. I have OneUI on my S22U and it is excellent (ofcourse there are some deficiencies and areas requiring improvement).
I'm going to stick with Samsung as my primary phone for primarily two reasons:
1. Excellent cameras (zoom feature is unmatched ).
2. Silent Automatic call recording feature.
There are other good reasons too, but these are my primary considerations now.
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Bixby and Google Assistant are always disabled by me. Read Bixby's EULA, eek, not to mention battery usage.
I like One UI a lot but the new Samsung flagships hardware sucks elephant balls bad. Power hogs that lack good balance and form factor. The S22U has excellent an layout and frame, but it comes to a grinding halt there. No SD card.
Worse this 3 yo N10+ is only slightly slower in day to day usage and sometimes faster in spite of the S22U's higher benchmark scores and faster, more efficient ram. 12+ hour run times on an optimized N10+ with a smaller battery and way better form factor.
Even the latest incarnation of the discontinued Buds+ has lousy battery life. meh.
Like Google Samsung is now more hype and smoke than rubber biting into the asphalt. 3 years of expensive disappointments. The worst losing streak in Samsung history. That's not counting the Fold series of travesties. That's what I think... be glad you're not the next Samsung rep I speak with feel the wuv.
TheMystic said:
So should monopoly be encouraged?
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I like to think I'm rather outspoken about the problems of monopolies in Big Tech, when the majority of the Internet is controlled by a few large companies who all work together on censorship and suppression of information. I was simply pointing out the "why" from a purely business perspective - these OEMs are using Google's apps so they no longer have to maintain their own - and was not implying that I agree with it.
TheMystic said:
And Bixby is very good these days, even though it hasn't been able to get rid of the bad reputation it gained for itself initially.
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I personally would much rather use Google software over Samsung, but that's just me.
TheMystic said:
On my OnePlus 8T, when it was on Android 11, there is a OnePlus Dialer apk (either a mod or one extracted from the Chinese ROM) that worked perfectly fine.
But after upgrading to Android 12 and now 13, it doesn't work. It's been over a year since Android 12 was launched, and yet there is no compatible apk. The workarounds involve rooting the device or installing a ROM from another region such as China/ Indonesia, etc, all of which shouldn't be necessary.
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I agree with you, but my evidently vague point was that OEMs are usually acting in what they think are their own business interests, not so much their consumers' interests.
TheMystic said:
It appears Google is paying these brands a lot of money, in violation (in principle) of the regulations prohibiting anti-competitive practices.
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I'm not so sure. While AOSP is maintained by Google, they've done a good job (in my opinion) of keeping Google services separate from the core OS components. As far as I know (haven't tested this myself so this is largely conjecture) there is nothing within AOSP itself that prevents you from using third party software for device functions, so anything that does has been implemented in OEM firmware by the OEM themselves. This is why many people prefer to run AOSP if it all possible.
blackhawk said:
Bixby and Google Assistant are always disabled by me. Read Bixby's EULA, eek, not to mention battery usage.
I like One UI a lot but the new Samsung flagships hardware sucks elephant balls bad. Power hogs that lack good balance and form factor. The S22U has excellent an layout and frame, but it comes to a grinding halt there. No SD card.
Worse this 3 yo N10+ is only slightly slower in day to day usage and sometimes faster in spite of the S22U's higher benchmark scores and faster, more efficient ram. 12+ hour run times on an optimized N10+ with a smaller battery and way better form factor.
Even the latest incarnation of the discontinued Buds+ has lousy battery life. meh.
Like Google Samsung is now more hype and smoke than rubber biting into the asphalt. 3 years of expensive disappointments. The worst losing streak in Samsung history. That's not counting the Fold series of travesties. That's what I think... be glad you're not the next Samsung rep I speak with feel the wuv.
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Battery life and absence of SD card are the only two things here.
Are you also not able to debloat the newer devices like you have done the N10+?
You won't find sd card on any flagship device today. So blaming Samsung alone is pointless.
As with battery life, it is quite average though. But the quality of cameras are enough for me to choose Samsung over every other brand.
V0latyle said:
these OEMs are using Google's apps so they no longer have to maintain their own
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You're missing this point: they still maintain these apps for some of the markets like China. There is no additional maintenance required in making that available for other markets.
What is difficult to understand is that their own dialer apk extracted from supported ROMs doesn't work in their global ROMs. There are so many dialer apps on Google Play Store that work fine. But not OEM's own dialer.
That tells me they are being paid by Google to create a restriction like that. Makes business and commercial sense because they are getting free money.
V0latyle said:
I personally would much rather use Google software over Samsung, but that's just me.
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Same here, although I don't use any digital assistants. But that's because Google's products are available on other platforms too like iOS, and it won't be incorrect to say that they are still better too.
Just found these two links:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344617037964800000
https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/knozmc
Not much detail is available though on either of them.
TheMystic said:
Just found these two links:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344617037964800000
https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/knozmc
Not much detail is available though on either of them.
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Interesting, I'd definitely like to see more information on this.
I did find this although it doesn't seem to be addressing the same concept:
Device Tier Targeting allows you to deliver different versions (e.g. resolutions, etc.) of the same asset to devices based on their hardware. For example, you may choose to deliver low resolution assets to lower end devices to improve performance, and deliver high resolution assets to higher end devices to improve graphic quality - all without incurring any increase in overall game size by only delivering the necessary assets to users' devices.
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Perhaps it means Tier 1 manufacturers, meaning direct suppliers of the final product - Samsung, LG, Foxconn, Motorola, Huawei, Xiaomi, etc
vs Tier 2, subcontractors or suppliers for tier 1, so this would be who manufactures the subassemblies such as completed PCBs, screens, batteries, etc
Tier 3 are the suppliers/subcontractors for tier 2, meaning who provides bare PCBs, electronic components, display panels, touch digitizers, display glass, etc
But this doesn't really suss out because Google doesn't force the use of Google services on Samsung phones, or even Pixels for that matter.
TheMystic said:
As of end of 2022, only Samsung phones come with their own Dialer (with automatic silent call recording feature).
Most other popular brands like OnePlus, Xiaomi, and others are now using Google Dialer on their phones (in Global markets except China). This is to the point that one can't even install the OEM dialer without dangerous workarounds that will have other implications.
Can anyone share precise reasons (no speculation) on why this is so?
Even though I read about how nations are penalizing Google for anti-competitive practices, the situation on the ground continues to get worse: more and more Google apps out of the box.
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There are no monopolistic practices on the dialer. You can download a simple dialer from the store and install it, then set it as the default dialer.
TheMystic said:
Battery life and absence of SD card are the only two things here.
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Huge things that effect the core usability greatly.
TheMystic said:
Are you also not able to debloat the newer devices like you have done the N10+?
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Since scoped storage was fully implemented Android is a mess. I'm running 9 and 10.
TheMystic said:
You won't find sd card on any flagship device today. So blaming Samsung alone is pointless.
As with battery life, it is quite average though. But the quality of cameras are enough for me to choose Samsung over every other brand.
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I waited 3 years and can wait 3 more. I don't care.
No trophies for losers Sammy. I'm not particularly the forgiving kind and Samsung's credibility is now that of pond scum. No better than the worst slimy used car salesman that tried to con me with lies, falsehoods and sure to be broken promises.
The cams aren't that great; the sensors are too small with not enough corrective elements in lens for one thing. A pro cam/lense will rip them to shreds. I take pictures with it but it's awkward and not nearly as useful as a pro cam for many reasons including you look like another a hole Tiktok wannabe influencer shooting with a smartphone.
Far more important is color/gamma accurate display, and having a dual drive with a 1tb data drive. Color/gamma accuracy as well as display reliability suffer on all the Samsung variable refresh rate displays. The N10+ still has the best display to bezel ratio, is lighter, slimer, best SOT, highest storage capacity and more than likely the best color/gamma accuracy/calibration.
Lol, the dialer is the least of Samsung's issues. Samsung has much bigger elephants in the room now.
3 years... is that all you got Samsung?
Give me your best shot or I will TKO you.
V0latyle said:
Interesting, I'd definitely like to see more information on this.
I did find this although it doesn't seem to be addressing the same concept:
Perhaps it means Tier 1 manufacturers, meaning direct suppliers of the final product - Samsung, LG, Foxconn, Motorola, Huawei, Xiaomi, etc
vs Tier 2, subcontractors or suppliers for tier 1, so this would be who manufactures the subassemblies such as completed PCBs, screens, batteries, etc
Tier 3 are the suppliers/subcontractors for tier 2, meaning who provides bare PCBs, electronic components, display panels, touch digitizers, display glass, etc
But this doesn't really suss out because Google doesn't force the use of Google services on Samsung phones, or even Pixels for that matter.
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I think there are two aspects to this:
1. GDPR
2. All these OEMs except Samsung are Chinese companies.
Given the timing, it appears there is a link between these.
ze7zez said:
There are no monopolistic practices on the dialer. You can download a simple dialer from the store and install it, then set it as the default dialer.
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There are many dialers that work. Only the OEM dialer doesn't work.
TheMystic said:
There are many dialers that work. Only the OEM dialer doesn't work.
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That's pretty fking funny.
What good is a phone that can't be dialed?