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I am really starting to like WebOS a lot and since we know it is the tablets and not the OS that were scrapped, I have to wonder about a possible groundswell of new development for the native operating system.
I am not quite as excited as most about getting FroYo on this thing, I actually think it may be a downgrade, performance-wise. GingerBread struck me as slightly different than FroYo, but Honeycomb is sweet. I also have a Viewsonic Gtablet running the FlashBack Honeycomb ROM and it is pretty damn nice, but I find WebOS to be a little more elegant and refined feeling. Especially after installing PreWare and adding the performance patches and stuff.
I am not a developer, but there are a lot of them around here and quite a few of them either already got or will get a touchpad to play with. I am hoping that some of them will be impressed enough (or intrigued enough) to look at the WebOS SDK and PDK.
Since there are already drivers for full functionality within WebOS, I would think it would not be too arduous for some of these intrepid devs to port a few of the popular apps over for those sticking with it. There is also a web-based widget builder called Project Ares that looks interesting.
Anybody else? Bueller?
I would continue using WebOS if there's a way to use Android apps on it
Webos is probably my favorite tablet os now. The problem is there's no Apps for it. I bought the touchpad for my girlfriend yesterday and she said she loved it but after 10 minutes of just checking facebook and some websites she was like, ok what now?
They need more games optimized for it and better prices
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
With no apps just think how youll never exhaust its resources
Just read a site claiming to have an andriod dump from HP's tablet. There will be decent android roms in no time.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
i'm kind of torn about using android on my TP.
i quite like the way webOS works.
i honestly can't understand why HP gave up on this thing. it's brilliant.
sure it's a little slow out of the box, but so was my HTC magic. a new rom fixed that.
it has fantastic support from the preware community.
i'm loving gestures and cards.
a 3G modem would've been nice (or a usb port to allow a dongle), but again not a big deal given that most phones these days can do wireless hotspot and 99.9% of the time if i have my tablet, i also have my phone. therefore it's always able to connect.
i'll admit the build quality leaves a bit to be desired, but for a first up effort it's pretty good.
the touchstone dock is brilliant.
i'm tempted to buy a second one so i'll have one at home and one at work.
i love android. (i'm somewhat of a fanboy)
i recommend it to friends all of the time. but after experiencing webOS i'm starting to wonder why.
EDIT: maybe HP will sell or licence webOS off to google and we can get the best of both worlds?
Since WebOS was released on the Pre few years ago I always wanted to try this OS as I mostly heard good comments about it and it looked good.
I must say that WebOS on a tablet is WOW! I love it.
I really hope new apps will be developed and that I will be able to continue to use WebOS.
I like my Android phone, but I would be happy continuing having a WebOS tablet.
I have heard that the HP Touchpad has a 3G and 4G wan aready on the chip and just waiting for software to activate. Just like the Nook color bluetooth that it never came with but was activated within Gingerbread.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
I really hope we will get the dual boot option. I would love to use that UbuntuChroot on it while enjoying Froyo or GB
I've always been interested in webOS ever playing witha mates palm pre. The cheap touchpads seemed like a great way of getting a webOS device.
I don't understand why people want to remove webOS, however I can understand trying to port android apps to it.
I'm still waiting delivery of my touchpad, cant wait to get playing around with it.
Does anyone know if I can mess with the browser so I can access chrome webapps?
I bought for two reasons, price and Android. For $149 you cant go wrong, I thought of buying more to try and sell for a small profit but decided against it. My local Arrons had one in their store, but had access to 6 more WebOS looks cool, but I am not familiar with it at all. I really dont care to learn it being WebOS is done. If worse comes to worse and only the Android market/APPS will work on it then I will be happy Heck, who am I kidding, at such a low price I am happy no matter what!
cordell12 said:
I bought for two reasons, price and Android. For $149 you cant go wrong, I thought of buying more to try and sell for a small profit but decided against it. My local Arrons had one in their store, but had access to 6 more WebOS looks cool, but I am not familiar with it at all. I really dont care to learn it being WebOS is done. If worse comes to worse and only the Android market/APPS will work on it then I will be happy Heck, who am I kidding, at such a low price I am happy no matter what!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point is, WebOS is not "done." In fact, it sounds like HP is planning to put a lot more into it.
Here is what the VP of Developer Relations said: http://developer.palm.com/blog/2011/08/the-next-chapter-for-webos/
Hopefully the Palmdroid project produces results. Because I prefer the webOS experience.
nunjabusiness said:
The point is, WebOS is not "done." In fact, it sounds like HP is planning to put a lot more into it.
Here is what the VP of Developer Relations said: http://developer.palm.com/blog/2011/08/the-next-chapter-for-webos/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, WebOS development will continue.
I really don't understand the cry for Android either. Froyo is not that amazing, Gingerbread isn't that great either. Heck, I have owned quite a few Honeycomb tablets (Xoom, rooted Nook Color, Dell Streak 7) and none of them impressed me.
I get that people here overwhelmingly like Android. But the only merit I can see for putting Android on this guy is for the apps. And, lets be honest, anything besides Android 3.X isn't even optimized for a large display like the touchpad. The Gmail application for example is just a giant list of emails. The WebOS email interface is leagues ahead because it actually takes advantage of the screen size by layering slide-panels instead of just being a giant list of messages!
WebOS is an awesome operating system. The only things holding it back to this point have been total garbage hardware (the Pre was trash) and a lack of developer interest. With HP pushing out hundreds and hundreds of thousands of these tablets in days, its safe to say that development will speed up on the WebOS front. Applications will start to trickle in faster, and things will improve.
The desire to have Android, yet alone a non 3.0 Android, on this thing just seems silly. But whatever, each to his or her own. I for one can appreciate the qualities of WebOS and will keep using it since it is a polished, tablet friendly operating system. After the "oh wow look what I did" factor of having Android 2.X on a tablet wore off, I realized non-Honeycomb Android on a tablet really sucks.
I already have an Android Tablet...it's cool.
I bought this for a cheap price, to have as a "coffee table" device for cruising the net and checking email. Maybe a youtube video once in a while.
AND...when you register the device you still get 50GB of cloud storage through box.net. I'm looking forward to using mine and have no intentions of putting any other OS on it...
I am a huge android fan, but Ill admit that after using the TP for a few days, WebOS is hands down a better tablet OS. Its just so much more structured. Thats why Im looking forward to see what comes out of the Palmdroid project. From my understanding, theyre trying to port the Dalvik VM over to WebOS which will allow android apps to run in "cards".
Been checking this every day for the past week now
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1230723
aim1126 said:
Webos is probably my favorite tablet os now. The problem is there's no Apps for it. I bought the touchpad for my girlfriend yesterday and she said she loved it but after 10 minutes of just checking facebook and some websites she was like, ok what now?
They need more games optimized for it and better prices
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WebOS is dead Install Android 3.2 Honeycomb
Haha no, not at all. This is the worst OS I've ever touched. The OS is overall sluggish and not made for a fluid experience what so ever.
I just had mine fail to download a 30MB System update about 10 or so times.
Browsing the poor apps in the market takes a minute to load each individual apps page.
The pre-installed "apps" are a link to go download it on the market which takes the aforementioned minute load of the page.
The best app would have to be the youtube app that opens up the browser to Youtube.com, absolutely ingenious!
It has. . nothing. On it. I can't even find apps if there were good apps, you can't go to the top of free apps.. there is either top, paid, or free search tabs but not a top free.
Even the browser leaves me yearning for more as I sit there and watch the checkered white boarder all over.
Is anyone else thinking about actually USING WebOS?
Yes, me!
Im running psycho-f15c-kernel-touchpad_3.0.2-41 on my ToychPad at 1.9GHz 100% stable! This thing is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaast!
Best and fastest Tab ever and WebOS is simply extraordinary... what a loss that that the best Tab EVER is discontinued and the most elegant and accomplished OS for a tablet has been sentenced to death. I have an ipad2 that I really like and a Samsung Galaxy Tab 7" that I use as my phone running Android 2.3.
Nothing touches WebOS, nothing! And nothing touches the speed of the Touchpad at 1.9Ghz! Ill use and love the Touchpad for as long as I can can, even iwht limited apps and an OS that is frozen in time. What a great loss, this is just so amazingly great! If HP had launched this a year ago and seriousely wanting to make it a success, this would be for sure the ipad killer... my a million miles.. really sad, but happy I have one and that works so well.
Thank guys for making this thing work so well and fast. XDA is the best community on the internet, period!
I just got my touchpad in the mail and have been playing with it for the last couple of hours. Here is my first impression:
wow, webos is pretty impressive. I owned and used iphones, ipads, android phones and tablets extensively and I can say that webos has the simplicity and user friendliness of ios and the multitasking and openness of android. Kind of best of both worlds. If it had the dev support of ios and android, it would certainly be better than ios and a huge competitor to android.
it is such a shame that it is almost dead. HP should have sold these tabs at $250 at launch ($50 below manufacturing cost) just like they do with the consoles and build dev support. Once established, they would make a ton of money off of their app market by selling media and apps just like apple.
introducing this tab at the same price point as the already established and ridiculously popular ipad with no apps and dev support was a quick and sure way to failure.
Such a shame. I really would have liked to see a mature webos platform as a strong competitor.
ps. I am writing this comment on my touchpad 32gb while listening to grooveshark on another browser window. The speakers are pretty loud and have great audio quality. Too bad Hulu just blocked access.
ps2. I really like the usa today app a lot. Nice job with the design and the use of gestures. That is exactly what touchcreen apps should be like
Defiantly liking WebOS alot but until more development takes place atm I will move to android when it surfaces.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
How are the apps on the 10" Honeycomb O/S?
I'm running 2.3 on my Nook, but with the TF 2 coming out, may upgrade. When I got my Nook, I was reading that there wasn't much app selection on Honeycomb. Now it looks like Android is looking to roll into 4.0 in the not too distant future.
Will I be giving up alot of app selection if I upgrade to Honeycomb Tablet, or has the last 8 months or so shown alot of app development with all the Honeycomb Tablets that have hit the market?
Love my 7" screen, but could use a 10" for some uses. And a faster performance is always a plus.
I've found that the vast majority of apps run just fine on Honeycomb and 10.1" screens. In fact, I consider it a complete fallacy that there's a small selection of apps for Honeycomb tablets.
If an app runs on your Nook, it'll mostly likely run just fine on the Transformer (or any other). It may be stretched out a bit in some cases, or in others might be blown up and a bit pixelated, but again most of the apps I've tried run just fine and are entirely usable.
At the same time, the number of tablet- and Honeycomb-optimized apps increases everyday. There are quite a few good apps. There's a thread here somewhere that discusses those apps, and I recommend you take a look.
Thanks for the heads up. I think I found it in the other subforum.
Will Google work on a dedicated market section for tablets? I'm tired of going through tonnes of phone apps before finding one optimized for tablets.
I'm not sure. I think they are trying to NOT have separate Phone and Tablet apps. They are pushing for the devs to program the app to auto-sense the screen size and adjust accordingly.
But I've used my TF for a while now and really never had the need to find "special apps". For example, the XDA app isn't "optimized" for Tablets but looks just perfect. Most games and apps never had an issue with screen size. In fact I've never found an app that didn't look right (I'm sure they're out there though).
I did toy around with the Nook Color while waiting for the iPad2 (which I traded for the TF) and while it is a neat toy, it wasn't quite a good experience. The OS seemed to run ok, but the Nook Color is what it is. Aside from larger screen space, you'll find the Transformer (or any real tablet) a much better experience all around.
I am surprised how well the Nook Color ran. I never would have thought it would play games and apps so well. The screen was very nice too but a little too small. I can see a 7" screen being great for a sole device, but when you have a 4" screen on your phone 3" doesn't really make that much of a difference. A phone and 10" tablet work well.
I use WiFi Explorer to share files back and forth. Good tip.
I think that's a terrible decision. App devs simply aren't catching up. And some just don't bother. I too, traded a brand new iPad 2 to buy this Transformer. But every single time I enter the Market, I regret my decision. I feel that it just gives a terrible user experience.
First, forced horizontal orientation. What's that about?
Next would be this issue, the lack of a dedicated tablet section. While most of the apps do work, some apps do have tablet-optimized alternatives out there. But because of how the Market is right now, it's no easy task looking for it.
Another benefit of having a dedicated tablet section is that there will be a separate ranking (top sellers) from the phone apps.
They do have a "Staff Picks for Tablets" section right now - and I hope that they are going to expand on that. Over 90% of the apps listed there are games; not what I bought my Transformer for.
Google may have a decent rationalization behind not going forward with it, but until the devs actually catch up, users are the one suffering.
It's going to be a while before HC/ICS catches up with iPad in terms of number and quality of Apps on Tablets is concerned. In the meanwhile, you can use www.tablified.com to navigate through all tablet-optimized apps on Android.
That's awesome. Thanks for the link!
Manusia said:
First, forced horizontal orientation. What's that about?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That drove me crazy everytime I opened the Market in portrait orientation. But it's fixed with the new Market in the latest TF firmware update! The new Market's awesome
And the new market offers a selection of the best tablet apps. Has anyonwe seen that already?
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Manusia said:
I think that's a terrible decision. App devs simply aren't catching up. And some just don't bother. I too, traded a brand new iPad 2 to buy this Transformer. But every single time I enter the Market, I regret my decision. I feel that it just gives a terrible user experience.
First, forced horizontal orientation. What's that about?
Next would be this issue, the lack of a dedicated tablet section. While most of the apps do work, some apps do have tablet-optimized alternatives out there. But because of how the Market is right now, it's no easy task looking for it.
Another benefit of having a dedicated tablet section is that there will be a separate ranking (top sellers) from the phone apps.
They do have a "Staff Picks for Tablets" section right now - and I hope that they are going to expand on that. Over 90% of the apps listed there are games; not what I bought my Transformer for.
Google may have a decent rationalization behind not going forward with it, but until the devs actually catch up, users are the one suffering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hate to sound fanboyish here but really? These complaints are hyperbolic and whiny. Orientation? Really?
I've yet to find myself in a situation wishing that an application (or type of application) that i'm looking for came in a tablet specific version. every app i've gotten just worked.
the only exception being launchers...but AFAIK, you can't even change launchers for the ipad.
encouraging devs to develop two versions of their apps is worse for consumers. you have to pay twice for premium apps. (angry birds anyone?)
lastly, just get an ipad. there's absolutely no reason you should be miserable with your TF. i mean cmon, you have to rotate it to horizontal orrientation and everything. OH THE HUMANITY!!!!!
---
edit: i just realized you're not even complaining about tablet specific apps..you're complaining about lack of listing for said apps. that's even more superficial. just add 'tablet' to your search. good lord. or tablified.com
but really though, just get an ipad.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
The new market has made it a bit easier to find goo tablet apps. the best source of app recommendations for me though has always been blogs and forums.
Almost all of my most used (and most tablet friendly) apps have been from my news feed.
Some apps that I've found to take advantage of the extra screen real estate, in elegant and useful ways are, News360, (Google) Reader, IMDB, Gmail.
Oh my god, I just noticed that ezPDF pro has been updated with a native HC interface (I haven't had the tablet for a few weeks as the screen needed replacing), nice.
I don't know about you guys but I did not purchase a tablet so I can run phone apps. I don't understand how people are okay with the fact that you have such a big beautiful screen that can hold and display so much information but yet, you settle for an app that does nothing but stretch to fit the screen.
For example, tapatalk is an app that I use almost daily but it frustrates the hell out of me. Maneuvering through forums and threads would be much more efficient if they took advantage of fragments and displayed the threads on the left and the individual post content on the right. The user experience on a tablet should always be better on a tablet than on a small phone and right now, Android is lacking in that UX department due to the lack of tablet apps.
And just because a dev makes a tablet version and a phone version doesn't always mean that you will have to pay twice. Take Plume for example, they have a tablet UI and a phone UI all in one app, thats how it should be! I don't want to use the plume phone app on my giant tablet screen. Whats the point then?
I hate when people say that there are 300,000+ android tablet app....no there isn't-there are under 2k, thats a more accurate number. There's a big difference between an app that works on tablets and an app that was designed with tablets in mind.
and I don't think the other user is being a whiner about the landscape-only market. it annoyed the hell out of me too. Just because it wasn't included to begin with doesn't mean that it was the best choice. If you are not a fanboy then you would point out the flaws and admit that they are real. I love android but I am not a fanboy, if there's an issue, I will point it out. The market has major issues and I hope Google address them soon.
Just my 2cents.
hyperxi said:
That drove me crazy everytime I opened the Market in portrait orientation. But it's fixed with the new Market in the latest TF firmware update! The new Market's awesome
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? Awesome! Just waiting for them to put the update back up
finalhit said:
Hate to sound fanboyish here but really? These complaints are hyperbolic and whiny. Orientation? Really?
I've yet to find myself in a situation wishing that an application (or type of application) that i'm looking for came in a tablet specific version. every app i've gotten just worked.
the only exception being launchers...but AFAIK, you can't even change launchers for the ipad.
encouraging devs to develop two versions of their apps is worse for consumers. you have to pay twice for premium apps. (angry birds anyone?)
lastly, just get an ipad. there's absolutely no reason you should be miserable with your TF. i mean cmon, you have to rotate it to horizontal orrientation and everything. OH THE HUMANITY!!!!!
---
edit: i just realized you're not even complaining about tablet specific apps..you're complaining about lack of listing for said apps. that's even more superficial. just add 'tablet' to your search. good lord. or tablified.com
but really though, just get an ipad.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have low expectations. Not my problem. You know why iPad is leading in the tablet market? User experience. Not just from using the product itself, but when researching as well. I have come across posts like yours so many times when people try to compare iPad and an Android. "Oh gosh just go get an iPad". And they do. Your ignorance is humoring though. Pointing out how Android can be improved gets me labeled as a fanboy. I've been recommending the TF to many of my friends since I got it. The Android Market sucks - doesn't mean I hate everything about the TF.
I'm glad you like the app to dictate what orientation you should hold your tablet. And I'm glad that you're fine with phone apps. Personally, I find tablet-optimized versions much better than their phone counterparts. But hey, I'm just a whiny dumbfuck.
Just add 'tablet'. Heh, if only it works such wonder every time. And while it's good that SOMEONE made the effort to list out the tablet apps, it's saddening that it isn't Google themselves. But what do you care about a simplified user experience?
RonSykes said:
Oh my god, I just noticed that ezPDF pro has been updated with a native HC interface (I haven't had the tablet for a few weeks as the screen needed replacing), nice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Love ezPDF
Manusia said:
Really? Awesome! Just waiting for them to put the update back up
You have low expectations. Not my problem. You know why iPad is leading in the tablet market? User experience. Not just from using the product itself, but when researching as well. I have come across posts like yours so many times when people try to compare iPad and an Android. "Oh gosh just go get an iPad". And they do. Your ignorance is humoring though. Pointing out how Android can be improved gets me labeled as a fanboy. I've been recommending the TF to many of my friends since I got it. The Android Market sucks - doesn't mean I hate everything about the TF.
I'm glad you like the app to dictate what orientation you should hold your tablet. And I'm glad that you're fine with phone apps. Personally, I find tablet-optimized versions much better than their phone counterparts. But hey, I'm just a whiny dumbfuck.
Just add 'tablet'. Heh, if only it works such wonder every time. And while it's good that SOMEONE made the effort to list out the tablet apps, it's saddening that it isn't Google themselves. But what do you care about a simplified user experience?
Love ezPDF
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i said "(i'd) hate to sound fanboying here but...". i wasn't calling you a fanboy, i'm saying, i'd hate to sound like a fanboy.
this is my main criticism of you.
you: " But every single time I enter the Market, I regret my decision. "
really? the orientation of the market, makes you regret completely of your choice to switching to the android? i don't have low expectations, you are majorly anal. my statement about switching to the ipad is wholy predicated on this statement as well. if the orientation of the market makes you regret your decision to switch...then switch back. This superficial problem is making you want to switch...then switch. i was not generalizing on how you feel about android as a whole....you were doing that. re-read your own post.
next, i also find tablet optimized apps better for my app...who said i didn't?
my critic to you was that you're hyperbolic and whiny...someone already mentioned that google didn't want fragmentation. promotating such a dichotomy would cause fragmentation. your response was: just do it anyway. The android OS is not designed to run on a specific resolution, and google always intended all apps to follow the same paradigm.
for the market to have it's own dedicated "tablet" section means devs would simply mark their apps to work for a certain resolution...which resolution would that be? what resolution qualifies as a tablet? ... suddenly the question becomes vague doesn't it?
what qualifies as an tablet app? is tapalk a tablet app? it runs on my tablet...so i guess it is, right? btw, tapatalk was not intended to be a tablet app...but having been designed correctly, it just works as a tablet app. come to think of it100% of the apps i've tried runs on my tablet actually. so i guess all of those are tablet apps well, right?
who's gonna be the arbiter of the official "tabletness" of an app? google? they're gonna go through all the apps, and all the possible resolution, and determine if "this looks right". the developers? if the app runs on the tablet...is it a tablet app? so if there were such a "tablet" section, wouldn't that just include everything?
i guess the compromise would be for google to put up a "recomendation" list for tablets...not an official list...because such a list would be vague an meaningless, but simply test a few apps for tablets, and reccomend them to people....oh wait, they already do that.
so yea, i'm not calling you a fanboy, i'm calling you anal. if the market's orientation makes you regret your decision to switch...then switch back...your words, not mine.
i'm not an android fanboy, i like reading valid critics of the system...keyword being valid. not whiny, ill-informed ones.
so i guess long story short, your probem is that you're working of a false premise...there's no such thing as tablet apps. splitting the market into such doesn't make sense.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
finalhit said:
i said "(i'd) hate to sound fanboying here but...". i wasn't calling you a fanboy, i'm saying, i'd hate to sound like a fanboy.
this is my main criticism of you.
you: " But every single time I enter the Market, I regret my decision. "
really? the orientation of the market, makes you regret completely of your choice to switching to the android? i don't have low expectations, you are majorly anal. my statement about switching to the ipad is wholy predicated on this statement as well. if the orientation of the market makes you regret your decision to switch...then switch back. This superficial problem is making you want to switch...then switch. i was not generalizing on how you feel about android as a whole....you were doing that. re-read your own post.
next, i also find tablet optimized apps better for my app...who said i didn't?
my critic to you was that you're hyperbolic and whiny...someone already mentioned that google didn't want fragmentation. promotating such a dichotomy would cause fragmentation. your response was: just do it anyway. The android OS is not designed to run on a specific resolution, and google always intended all apps to follow the same paradigm.
for the market to have it's own dedicated "tablet" section means devs would simply mark their apps to work for a certain resolution...which resolution would that be? what resolution qualifies as a tablet? ... suddenly the question becomes vague doesn't it?
what qualifies as an tablet app? is tapalk a tablet app? it runs on my tablet...so i guess it is, right? btw, tapatalk was not intended to be a tablet app...but having been designed correctly, it just works as a tablet app. come to think of it100% of the apps i've tried runs on my tablet actually. so i guess all of those are tablet apps well, right?
who's gonna be the arbiter of the official "tabletness" of an app? google? they're gonna go through all the apps, and all the possible resolution, and determine if "this looks right". the developers? if the app runs on the tablet...is it a tablet app? so if there were such a "tablet" section, wouldn't that just include everything?
i guess the compromise would be for google to put up a "recomendation" list for tablets...not an official list...because such a list would be vague an meaningless, but simply test a few apps for tablets, and reccomend them to people....oh wait, they already do that.
so yea, i'm not calling you a fanboy, i'm calling you anal. if the market's orientation makes you regret your decision to switch...then switch back...your words, not mine.
i'm not an android fanboy, i like reading valid critics of the system...keyword being valid. not whiny, ill-informed ones.
so i guess long story short, your probem is that you're working of a false premise...there's no such thing as tablet apps. splitting the market into such doesn't make sense.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My bad on misreading that sentence of yours.
Regretting my decision while in the Market isn't just because of the orientation, but rather the whole experience of using it. Other issues such as poor search results (which I find ironic, considering Google) are also present.
It's great to have an app that adjusts to different resolutions, but right now the phone apps that do it are simply stretching it out. There's a lot of real estate on the screen that could be put into great use, but simply aren't.
You have a good point at "what constitutes a tablet", but manufacturers are already good at differentiating their product categories. And considering the fact that they are customizing the OS for their devices, it boils down to them to classify their devices. Apps can still work the same way of dynamically adjusting according to resolution, but also having a different layout if it's used on a tablet.
Having a dedicated section makes it easier to browse for apps. What if a dev simply wants to focus on building an app for tablet (ie. simply not suitable for phone resolutions, though it may still run)? The app will then be put into the same market where existing phone apps may be overshadowing it. If there was a section for tablet-optimized apps, the app can get more exposure to the right target market. It benefits both the dev and the user.
I don't mind you calling me whiny or anal about it. I have my own expectations. I call yours low, though you may feel it's not. Whether or not it's a valid complaint to you, that's your own opinion - but there are many out there who have similar complaints.
As for the orientation, like I said, why have an app dictate what orientation you use it at? Especially a native app. Anal, arguably yes, but these minor points simply build up to the users' experience. I know many Android phone fans that feel that Android's tablet market is really not yet there. While I agree, I have my reasons for choosing the TF - as it does excel in some other aspects.
Manusia said:
You know why iPad is leading in the tablet market? User experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You misspelled "marketing."
It stuns me that for all the Apple propaganda everywhere you look, you barely see any Android tablet manufacturers advertising. The few ads you see are generally wireless companies trying to sell you their service that happens to come with a tablet.
I have a few friends who are Apple fans, and every one of them (a) enjoyed my tablet after playing around with it, and (b) had never heard of "Asus" or "Transformer."
Apple really ingrained themselves in American culture with the iPod / iPhone revolution, and even heavy advertising may not help Asus. But eventually Apple will fall; see Nintendo in the late 90s.
finalhit said:
what qualifies as an tablet app? come to think of it 100% of the apps i've tried runs on my tablet actually. so i guess all of those are tablet apps well, right?
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Click to collapse
No..no it doesn't.
A tablet app is an application that has a revamped UI that takes advantage of the screen real estate. The UX of that app should be greatly enhanced when using the app on a tablet vs using the app on the phone. Of course, the idea of an 'enhanced UX' differs from person to person the former should remain constant; an app with a revamped UI that takes advantage of the real estate of the tablet.
Its a rough definition but its definitely one that thousands of people agree with.
ayman07 said:
No..no it doesn't.
A tablet app is an application that has a revamped UI that takes advantage of the screen real estate. The UX of that app should be greatly enhanced when using the app on a tablet vs using the app on the phone. Of course, the idea of an 'enhanced UX' differs from person to person the former should remain constant; an app with a revamped UI that takes advantage of the real estate of the tablet.
Its a rough definition but its definitely one that thousands of people agree with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can you get computers to agree with that? the criteria you're using is one of aesthetics. android app binaries all look the same. UX is not quantifiable. the only way to create such a system is via an opt-in system, where a dev can just mark their app as "enhanced for tablets" on their own definition of the criterion. that does not make for a very sound system.
I'm not seeing your point here.
Aesthetics enhance UX. Consumers don't care about binary, they care about how the app looks on a big tablet.
Like I said, the app can have one binary with two different UIs. Its not a complex concept. Its been done before and it should continue to be done by developers.
As a long time Android user (OG Droid) I cannot believe I am about to ask this. I know it will spur alot of hate my way, but I guess I can take it...
I am thinking of upgrading to the next Iphone (5).
I haven't thought lightly about this. As previously stated, I have used Android since the motorola droid 1 and since then I have rooted every phone and installed countless roms.
The common theme in all the phones and roms I've encountered is intermittent lag. Every phone, every rom, has had lag from time to time. I'm talking about having to wait 3-10 seconds for the dialer or home screen to come up.
I have tried all different homes, scripts, etc to improve it, but the problems remain. The problem is it's intermitent, that's why it's hard to isolate the cause.
Also, the only root privledges I really enjoy are removing apps and wireless tethering.
So a few questions for you guys:
Who here also has an iphone 4, 4s?
Does it have any lag at all?
Is there a way to bypass itunes to transfer music/vids to it?
Anyone convert to iphone and then regret it?
What limitations besides flash are there?
Is there a way to wirelessly tether?
Flame on, I'm ready
Galaxy Nexus and done
A few of my buddies have iPhones, dating back to the iPhone3G. They have all had problems at one point or another. All of them. Lag? Have you ever used an iPhone? Two of my friends have jailbroken iPhone4s that lag more than my OG Droid. They look at my Charge and drool. My friends with stock iPhone4's seem to have better performance.
iPhone3G had some of the most ****ty battery life I've ever seen on a phone. This was back in 2008. Everyone I knew who owned an iPhone3G had multiple chargers (office, home, car). Also, the iPhone3G didn't handle the OS updates as well as the 3GS and above. My friend who used an iPhone3G was basically crippled at times.
I've seen plenty of lag on the iPhone3GS as well. I have the iPod Touch (3rd gen) and have seen lag. My iPod Touch also likes to skip tracks whenever it feels like it.
I can't speak for the performance of the iPads, but I can offer my opinion: they're giant iPod Touches. NOT revolutionary in the least bit. I seriously hate iPads and hate Apple for ruining what "tablet computers" are. Even my supernerdyApplefanboy coworker got upset when the iPad was showcased. He was hoping for an actual tablet (he's an artist), and not just a giant iPod Touch.
EDIT: I'm surprised you haven't complained about your PC lagging.
I hardly ever have lag on my phones, and when it does happen its not extreme and doesn't last long usually just a stutter...
on a related note it bugs me when I watch/read reviews about android phones and all I see/hear is LAG LAG LAG LAG DERPY DERP DERP LAG then the reviewer proceeds to do a demonstration of it and it looks COMPLETELY NORMAL, like they're calling the two milliseconds screen transition lag and afterwards continue to say how horrible it is compared to iOS, which is retarded because they are two completely different os's and everyone knows iOS has its faults as well (one of which, surprise surprise, is LAG)
/end rant
Being that I am not a fanboy in either direction, I will give my input, and experience.
Lag. Not normally seen in a stock iphone, but ever so present of jailbroken.
Bypass itunes? Nope. And if you have never used itunes to sync, then coming from android, you may have a hard time getting used to it.
I have used android and ios. Regret it, no. but I prefer androids openness. If I was forced to only user ios would I be miserable? Not from the reliability standpoint. Personally I get bored easily, so I love flashing different roms with android.
Limitations? Ability to change roms. If you jailbreak then you can load up winterboard for themes, but you are still on the same os.
Tether? Possible, yet easier to track, and apple has been known to break this feature easily from their end at carrier requests.
My additional input. Unless the iphone 5 has at least a 4 in screen, and better battery to compensate, I will pass. The small screen does annoy me
I went from Windows Mobile 6.5 -> iOS -> Android.
Even a jailbroken iPhone still needs to call home (your PC) whenever you want to update it. You mentioned bypassing iTunes for adding music. While I am no expert on iOS, there is no method that I've discovered to do this on my Touch 4G. With the exception of my SD backup last night, I cannot remember the last time I needs a PC in front of me to do anything on my phone.
Lag has already been touched upon, and while I've seen it on occasion with Android, iOS 5.0.1 lags a hell of a lot more on my bone stock, with the exception on jailbreak, iPod.
There are plenty of ways to by pass iTunes, I prefer to CopyTrans Manager since it's free and simple.
http://www.copytrans.net/copytransmanager.php
There are wireless tether apps PdaNet, TetherMe, and MyWi for jailbroken iPhones on cydia. Be aware though that it is much easier for the carriers to detect tethering on IOS than android.
Macs=scam backwards. Enough said.
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kvswim said:
Macs=scam backwards. Enough said.
Win...
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Click to collapse
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It really comes down to what you want in the long run.
My wife has the Iphone 4 and I have the charge. personally I like the charge better.
Its not in a locked environmet. If your phone lags, and all will it comes down to specs.
My next phone will have 1.5 gb cpu and 1gb ram simple enough for me. Then it will have to fall into a "can I mod it catagory".
kvswim said:
Macs=scam backwards. Enough said.
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Click to collapse
This made me laugh. Never realized it.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
tsitalon1 said:
As a long time Android user (OG Droid) I cannot believe I am about to ask this. I know it will spur alot of hate my way, but I guess I can take it...
I am thinking of upgrading to the next Iphone (5).
I haven't thought lightly about this. As previously stated, I have used Android since the motorola droid 1 and since then I have rooted every phone and installed countless roms.
The common theme in all the phones and roms I've encountered is intermittent lag. Every phone, every rom, has had lag from time to time. I'm talking about having to wait 3-10 seconds for the dialer or home screen to come up.
I have tried all different homes, scripts, etc to improve it, but the problems remain. The problem is it's intermitent, that's why it's hard to isolate the cause.
Also, the only root privledges I really enjoy are removing apps and wireless tethering.
So a few questions for you guys:
Who here also has an iphone 4, 4s?
Does it have any lag at all?
Is there a way to bypass itunes to transfer music/vids to it?
Anyone convert to iphone and then regret it?
What limitations besides flash are there?
Is there a way to wirelessly tether?
Flame on, I'm ready
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The main problem I have with the iPhone (my mom has it) is that its browser lacks text reflow. You can use alternative browsers that can increase font size, but this can backfire on certain websites (such as dslreports) where lines begin to overlap. Windows Phone 7 also lacks text reflow, and this is a serious issue for me.
Obviously there's Readability, or even Safari's own built-in "Reader" function, to strip ads out of web pages and display text in a very readable format, but that doesn't work with forums or comment pages such as xda or reddit (which are my favorite parts of the web). This issue is exacerbated on iOS's relatively small screen.
As for smoothness and lag, there's no doubt iOS is smoother in all facets. It also doesn't experience standby drain issues, which I've struggled with dealing on my Charge. Its browser is silky smooth, and touch input is prioritized over all other actions (like web page rendering), so you'll be able to move around a page that hasn't fully loaded (you'll just see checkerboxes).
I was hoping Google would fix Android's lag issues with ICS. I want them to eliminate the Dalvik VM framework (it would at the very least spare their OS's future from Oracle's lawsuits) and run things in native code. If you've used WP7 you've no doubt been surprised at how oily smooooth it runs even on outdated Cortex A8 single-core CPUs.
Unfortunately, responses from Google's own engineers are incredibly disheartening. Take this one for example: https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/XAZ4CeVP6DC
Dianne argues points about the differences between iOS and Android, and how this leads to performance issues with Android (security and sandboxing leads to slowness). But later on in the thread an iOS jailbreaker by the name of "Jay Freeman" utterly destroys every one of her claims, pointing out iOS goes above and beyond what Android does (in that specific instance).
If one of Google's own Android engineers doesn't even realize their excuses for performance issues is completely invalid, how is Google ever going to improve their OS?
So yeah, if it weren't for LTE and text reflow in the browser, I might have moved on. You also may want to consider those issues before switching.
Also as a disclaimer, I've flashed the "pre-alpha" ICS ROM on the Charge, and while the stock browser loads much, much faster than Gingerbread, it still stutters and lacks smoothness. Opera Mobile is still by far the smoothest, but even that occasionally experiences microstutters. Many people won't notice or care, but as a former high(ish)-level FPS player I notice these details and it drives me crazy.
To the person above me... Jay Freeman aka Saurik is the person who basically invented jailbreaking. He is the iOS god-the JT1134 of the iPhone.
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I thought this debate died a while back. I don't have lag on the Charge, period.
Get a good ROM, Fugu, V-6, change scheduler, freeze stuff.
Or get Apple. If you have to even ask, then you probably should get Apple.
Besides, by the time the iPhone 5 is out, just think where Android phones will be.
Lol, worst place to post this thread Maybe you should try an iForum
On a serious note, I know what you mean, the UI is smooth as silk, apps open quick and the UI is super speedy. Honestly though, I just upgraded from a milestone (international version of OG Droid) to a Galaxy Nexus, and I really can't complain. I haven't played with a 4S but I mean this phone is buttery smooth with no lag whatsoever. The screen is gorgeous and I love having so much more real estate than a measly 3.7' device. I also could never get used to such a boring UI such as the one present on the iPhone. I mean seriously, the same, overrated UI for 7 years? Although I love what Apple does, their UI is lacking some serious innovation and I for one could never live with that UI on my phone.
As per whether iTunes is required or not, I believe if you are jailbroken, you can use a desktop app called iFunbox. Not sure about this one, but I know you can navigate through the root of the device but not sure if it would play with the native music/video player
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kvswim said:
To the person above me... Jay Freeman aka Saurik is the person who basically invented jailbreaking. He is the iOS god-the JT1134 of the iPhone.
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Click to collapse
Holy... *that* was Saurik? No wonder he was so knowledgeable about the ins and outs of iOS. I thoroughly enjoyed reading his posts. He somehow made it possible for even a layman like myself to understand what he was saying.
What frustrated me the most was that Dianne did nothing to follow up. She updated her post and admitted to being in error about iOS, but apparently didn't make the connection that her mistake made her entire argument completely moot.
I've always had high hopes for Android, but it's been frustrating me lately. The XDA community does an amazing job of tweaking, fixing, modding, speeding up, etc. to make Android run far better than even stock versions, but only a rewrite of Android's foundations will give it the power to run as ridiculously fluidly as WP7 does on 2009 hardware, let alone iOS on a single-core 600 MHz iPhone 3GS at 256 MB of RAM (albeit at low resolution).
As for Android being linux-based, Meemo is even more customizable and runs more smoothly, despite having less investment into it. Android deserves better. I want Google to stand up and say "we're breaking backwards compatibility to rewrite this OS". Take the lead, be bold, ignore the bleatings of the carriers and OEMs.
With WP7 and iOS not having full multi-tasking support, at least to the level that Android has it, that helps make them more fluid. If you don't have apps in the background taking up RAM and CPU time, regardless of how much or little of the system resources the app takes up, it is still wasted time. In return though, we don't have to worry about closing out music or the browser just to check a text message. If you want to remove the multi-tasking ability of Android, especially if done to ICS, I'm sure that it would be very smooth as well.
imnuts said:
With WP7 and iOS not having full multi-tasking support, at least to the level that Android has it, that helps make them more fluid. If you don't have apps in the background taking up RAM and CPU time, regardless of how much or little of the system resources the app takes up, it is still wasted time. In return though, we don't have to worry about closing out music or the browser just to check a text message. If you want to remove the multi-tasking ability of Android, especially if done to ICS, I'm sure that it would be very smooth as well.
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Click to collapse
I don't think this is a fair argument. iOS multitasking is just done differently and has a scheduler optimized for mobile devices with battery constraints. However it is no doubt more limited, which is why I used Meego as an example. Meego has true multitasking, but is still extremely responsive to input with an extremely smooth UI. Even incomplete webOS is more responsive in the browser (although not smooth). And multitasking isn't the only issue with Android.
Take one of the poster's comments: "While the S2's browser is fantastic, other parts are not - such as an SMS inbox with a thread of 30 or so messages, or scrolling through a long list of contacts (it seems to 'stutter' when the ListView has to render headings while scrolling is occurring, so it's not 'fluid'). Third party apps suffer the same fate (i.e. IMDB: scrolling through 'Latest Trailers' or the 'Coming Soon' list, same app on iPhone - buttery smooth and flawless fluidity which makes the end-user feel good).
...
Or Skype: install Skype, chat with someone, then scroll up the chat. I'm not even going to start on viewing/panning around PDF files ;(."
Another poster with a custom kernel claimed smooth experience on a different app with similar functionality, but that speaks to xda's accomplishments, and not to Android's effectiveness.
Jay Freeman (aka Saurik... I had no idea) sums up the above mentioned issue here:
"http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3332357 <- check out the responses from Xuzz and ryanpetrich.
In particular, iOS in fact has a multi-window architecture: applications can be made up of multiple UIWindows, and you can have UIWindows from different processes on screen at the same time. When you click on applications in SpringBoard, the transitions you see are animations of windows, and it would not at all be difficult to implement (from a rendering perspective) a scheme where different processes registered something similar to Android's activities, where clicking links slid one process's content off-screen while sliding another process's content on, even while sharing a navigation bar.
The status bar actually used to be an example of this, but they changed it at some point (and honestly I do not remember why, but I do not believe it to have been due to a rendering issue); the notification center, however, is a good current example: the window for the notification center is in SpringBoard, but it is rendering over and at the same time as the window for the application you are covering. There is also no issue having these windows alpha composite onto each other: the little popups that happen from clicking the volume buttons are windows in SpringBoard.
The reason for this is that, like with most multi-window environments (including Android), there is a window manager that is handling all of the actual compositing. In this case, it is SpringBoard, the process that manages the home screen, task switcher, notification center, lock screen, and honestly almost anything that has to be "always happening". The way this works is that surfaces (backed by system or video memory) are managed by a driver that allows them to be passed between processes: applications can render directly to their surfaces, while the actual surface hierarchy is maintained by SpringBoard.
Honestly, though: around here is where my knowledge is really fuzzy, and can't be trusted; Ryan Petrich's knowledge can be, so I will quote his comment from Hacker News: """On iOS, all standard rendering is done in a single context by the Core Animation window server which lives in SpringBoard. Only when an app adds an OpenGL ES layer to the view hierarchy does a separate context need to be created. When that happens, the render graph is split into subgraphs that are rendered to surfaces and displayed as overlays (with SpringBoard rendering all the standard layers and the app rendering the OpenGL layer)""".
The result of all this is that your comments regarding iOS's inability to handle multiple applications sharing screen real-estate in an efficient and secure manner are simply false: the fact that Apple does not support the Android notion of seamlessly moving between applications, with a back-button instead of simply an up/home-button, is simply an irritating business decision they make. As mentioned by Xuzz on Hacker News, it would be a simple manner to, for example, modify UIKeyboard to be handled by a separate process from the app that was calling for it: the involved work would not be rendering complexity.
Finally, the reason why you need to be careful with your view hierarchy to get 60fps scrolling is due to the complexity of loading new table cells and rendering them for the first time: once they are rendered they scroll quickly as the entire layer is cached (afaik, and if I'm wrong on this it doesn't actually matter). The problem on Android is that, even in the best possible cases, where you are staring at a trivial table implemented by the Android team itself (such as the Settings/Preferences app), there is noticeable UI latency and slop while moving your finger over the screen. When you read threads like the response to your first article on Hacker News, you can see this is a serious challenge for Android."
Dianne Hackborne's response is to disregard these points by claiming all of this is due to the nature of GPUs on old Android devices: "Unfortunately for us, until recently we just didn't have GPUs that could do multiple contexts, so if our system worked like that we wouldn't have been able to ship. :}"
She uses the Nexus S as an example of a "newer" device that solved these problems: "For example, a Nexus S can definitely does 60fps on well written lists."
Sadly, my Droid Charge still stutters on lists and when opening the app drawer.
Jay refutes her silly claims and cites an article on lag in ICS on the GNex and lambasts her for attempting to spread the false claim that Android's lag is due to sandboxing and security issues. I've even seen Hackborne (or at least someone claiming to be her) posting on sites like ArsTechnica with various long-winded arguments like the one she posted on Google+. It's bizarre how unwilling she is to directly address these complaints.
Sorry for the long post. It's a wonderful thread with plenty of amazing back and forth arguments. I just want Google to recognize the issues and talk about them more in public. Talk about how they're specifically addressing them. I'm excited as the next guy to get ICS, but it's just not enough. I've seen videos comparing browsing in ICS compared to a single-core A8 WP7 phone. Scrolling and zooming... just no comparison. As much as I hate to admit it, the idea of an HTC Titan II with 4.7" screen and LTE makes me jealous. What I wouldn't give to have an Android phone with that kind of user experience.
Ok, thanks guys.
So from what I'm hearing, it doesn't sound like a fundamental difference in user experience really. Sure you lose control unless you jailbreak, which causes iOS lag...
Most of what I want to do still seems doable. If I decide to go that route I would wait for the 5, as I have to have a bigger screen.
Next question for those that have experienced it. Is there anything comparable to Google navigation on iOS? I know Google has it on iOS, but it's crippled, I also believe there are paid versions, but is there anything free that's as accurate and reliable as the turn by turn Android Nav app?
How about theming? app drawers? I really don't like a cluttered homescreen with all my apps on it. I assume there is an app drawer app that can clean it up right? Oh, what about widgets?
I also want to thank you guys for the open and honest feedback without the usual dismissal that is usually found on some of these boards.
tsitalon1 said:
How about theming? app drawers? I really don't like a cluttered homescreen with all my apps on it. I assume there is an app drawer app that can clean it up right? Oh, what about widgets?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, personalization, what's that?
NOTE: If you are looking to troll, insult the intelligence of users of any platform, or flame in any way, then you are in the wrong thread.
To understand why "true" Android tablets (read as tablets besides the Fire) are struggling to gain market share, one must first consider why the iPad, and the Kindle to some extent, has been so successful, and why people choose to use a tablet instead of a laptop in the first place. It has nothing to do with specs. It has to do with three simple words: "Ease of use."
With little effort or thinking required, anyone can pick up an iPad without it being headache inducing or bad for your blood pressure. A good example is Netflix. I don't even want to start the Netflix app on the Transformer Prime. It is painfully slow and non-responsive. On the iPad, the Netflix app with the same exact layout is as smooth as butter and arguably one of the best ways to consume Netflix content. No constantly having to glance at the battery, no rampaging through forums trying to find out why your device is constantly rebooting. It is just you and your tablet having a relaxing, intimate experience.
Unless the Android tablet makers straighten out the reboots, the app issues, the wifi issues, etc before worrying about specs, then Android on tablets is destined to go the way of the Zune.
in the case of netflix, that's netflix's failure, not Android's or the tablet makers.
as for "ease of use", if you think an Android tablet is too hard to just pick up and use, you must be especially inept. both my 56 year old mother and 72 year old step-father picked up my Transformer and were tapping and swiping away like they'd been using a tablet for years, no hiccups at all.
The biggest problem with Android tablets is shoddy,poorly optimized software and lack of apps. Android is nowhere near as smooth as iOS(ICS better than Honeycomb but still nowhere close to iPad), which really degrades the user experience. There is also a severe lack of tablet specific apps, and certain apps run fine on one tablet,but not another even though the hardware is identical. The only way Android tabs can compete is on price, which is why Kindle Fire was able to gain traction. No one I their right mind will pay the same price for an Android tablet that will be obsolete in a few months, and may not receive OS updates. Google really dropped the ball by making Honeycomb such a steaming pile of dung and launching overpriced junk like the Xoom to take on iPad 2, horrible first impression to say the least.
As said above me, the problem is indeed the lack of apps and optimizations for the tablet with both size and hardware specs.
The only reason for that, is that Android 3 was rebuilt from scratch, iOS, which was old and popular already, was simple "streched" over the screen of the iPad. Even the hardware is the same.
Google didn't release the zoom Motorola did. As for honeycomb vs ios, ios is for all purposes the same exact operating system released on the first iPhone. The advancements have been few and far between, and always behind the time. Google actually changed everything, yes some of it did not come out perfect, but honeycomb is a unique ui from gingerbread, froyo, etc. I have some issues with my honeycomb tablet but the limitations of ios out weigh my issue with honeycomb. The ipad is a great product with an offensively boring operating system
Netfilx runs on my tablet with out any lag whats so ever, and I experience no reboots unless I am pushing it with over clocking and what not. Apple makes a one size firts all product. One screen size, one processor, one clock speed, one os, one ui. Most people who complain about android made a poor choice of the device they purchased, then blame the operating system for the performance. With Apple there is one tablet.
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Manufacturers
You are definitely right. The downside about Android is not the actual software but in a way how many devices and manufacturers there are. With So many Android devices coming out every other week, it would be almost impossible for Google to be able to take their software and mod it to every new device. With Apple they have one tablet and are able to focus on making things work perfectly on that one device, no other device specs to throw in.
The iPad sells because it is made by Apple and their customers are very loyal to the brand. Developers for the iPad only have 1 (or 2 if you count the 1st gen iPad) device to test on, so there should be no problems. Android app developers have many different devices which means there is a greater chance for issues, but this is not Google's fault or even the tablet maker's fault, it's the app developer.
Android has had quite a few updates in the last few years, both UI and Linux kernel. iOS on the other hand still looks like 2007 with some newer apps included. The tablet versions of Android are still pretty young. Even if the ratio of Android tablets to phones doesn't take off, getting everyone on ICS should help out stability of tablet apps.
sarreq said:
in the case of netflix, that's netflix's failure, not Android's or the tablet makers.
as for "ease of use", if you think an Android tablet is too hard to just pick up and use, you must be especially inept. both my 56 year old mother and 72 year old step-father picked up my Transformer and were tapping and swiping away like they'd been using a tablet for years, no hiccups at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When people are having to read forums and sometimes open up their device to get wifi to work correctly, that is not easy to use. You may not be having this issue, but there are hundreds in the prime forum having it. People use the tablet because it is a more enjoyable experience. If the laptop is more convenient, they will use that instead, which is why people don't want to use Android tablets. They are headache inducing trying to figure out why nothing is working like it should. They have great specs, but software is more important on the tablet form factor.
kingsway8605 said:
When people are having to read forums and sometimes open up their device to get wifi to work correctly, that is not easy to use. You may not be having this issue, but there are hundreds in the prime forum having it. People use the tablet because it is a more enjoyable experience. If the laptop is more convenient, they will use that instead, which is why people don't want to use Android tablets. They are headache inducing trying to figure out why nothing is working like it should. They have great specs, but software is more important on the tablet form factor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your issues are not android software related. You should of read the same forums you are talking about before purchasing the device and you would of been aware prior. Because of the fragmentation of android there are plenty of sub par decvices on the market. It is up to the consumer to make a smart decision as to which to purchase.
this is all a matter of prefference so the argument can just go round in circles. If I was to win an I Pad 2 in a raffle I would not even take it out of the box before I sold it and used the proceeds to get an android device
mcord11758 said:
Your issues are not android software related. You should of read the same forums you are talking about before purchasing the device and you would of been aware prior. Because of the fragmentation of android there are plenty of sub par decvices on the market. It is up to the consumer to make a smart decision as to which to purchase.
this is all a matter of prefference so the argument can just go round in circles. If I was to win an I Pad 2 in a raffle I would not even take it out of the box before I sold it and used the proceeds to get an android device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you missed the whole point of my OP.
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mcord11758 said:
Your issues are not android software related. You should of read the same forums you are talking about before purchasing the device and you would of been aware prior. Because of the fragmentation of android there are plenty of sub par decvices on the market. It is up to the consumer to make a smart decision as to which to purchase.
this is all a matter of prefference so the argument can just go round in circles. If I was to win an I Pad 2 in a raffle I would not even take it out of the box before I sold it and used the proceeds to get an android device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you're in a small minority of people who want to waste their cash on a barely functional device running junky software. I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people would take an iPad over an Android tablet unless it's much cheaper with a comparable ecosystem ala Kindle Fire.
I don't see the Android tablets ever surpassing the iPad. In the tablet market, the "just working" is even more of a powerful concept than the phones since tablets are generally an extra expense.
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I think the real problem is that people don't want tablets, they want an Ipad. I have never been sold on the tablet craze. My screen is 4.5 inches, why would I need more? I truly believe that this is why Apple keeps the Iphone so small, to almost make a tablet a necessity.
kingsway8605 said:
And you missed the whole point of my OP.
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Click to collapse
No I get it, you have problems with your tablet and are assuming the issues are symptomatic of android
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mcord11758 said:
No I get it, you have problems with your tablet and are assuming the issues are symptomatic of android
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you don't get the point of my OP. The forums for each of the popular tablets, the app selection, and Android market share prove they are symptoms of Android on tablets.
Google and the tablet manufacturers do not get why the tablet form factor became popular in the first place. This is the point of my post.
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My apologies for the bickering, although I do not agree with the premise I respect your position. I have a company iPhone and purchased an android tablet as I prefer the platform. I have a htc flyer and for half the price like it more than my wives iPad. In the end that is just me though
kingsway8605 said:
No you don't get the point of my OP. The forums for each of the popular tablets, the app selection, and Android market share prove they are symptoms of Android on tablets.
Google and the tablet manufacturers do not get why the tablet form factor became popular in the first place. This is the point of my post.
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Isn't that the same thing everyone said about Android on phones when it released?
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SiNJiN76 said:
Isn't that the same thing everyone said about Android on phones when it released?
Swyped using my Pinky
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Tablet market is not the same as the phone market. The reason Android gained traction is because carriers needed something to combat the iPhone and it was the best alternative at the time. Android gained market share because carriers embraced it since it put them back in the driver's seat, they could take out features,install loads of crapware and modify the OS to their heart's content. The majority of Android phones sold aren't premium handsets, but low to midrange phones of the BOGO or free with contract variety. Meanwhile tablets are typically not bought with a contract and wifi models are far more popular, which cuts the carriers out of the loop. This puts vendors in a precarious position,because they can't rely on carrier subsidies and can't compete with Apple on price due to their purchasing power. Trying to push an Android tablet at $500+ is an automatic fail because there aren't enough Apple haters or hardcore geeks who are pretty much your only market at that price point. The fact that W8 is also looming on the horizon and looks to be a much better tablet OS than anything that Google is bringing to the table doesn't help either.
More and more Android tablet makers are getting it right, starting now, just the way Google is getting the Android experience to match up to the iOS experience. It is true iOS was light years ahead in terms of beauty, simplicity, ease of use, performance etc - but Google (with Android) and many of the tablet makers (Samsung, Amazon, and now even the ODMs/OEMs in rest of the world) are catching up in terms of the OS experience - ICS is quite simply amazing, and one can't say it is horrible compared to iOS, even if one loves iOS.
The reason why many people complained about Android, rightly so, is caused by the fact that Android didn't dictate what hardware it must be run on, allowing manufacturers to make compromises/mistakes on the hardware (processor, memory, display etc) whereas Apple ensured the hardware is just as good as the OS, and even more than that Apple knew the internals of iOS and its processor/hardware really well from before, and could ensure the best optimized experience. With more manufacturers learning more about Android now - they are becoming more sophisticated in their engineering - and the Android experience will continue to flourish. And not just Google's own flavor of Android, but fork-offs like those of Amazon (and maybe others like Samsung?) may result in even more special things!
Its certainly an exciting time for Android, and in general, consumer electronics. As coders, I hope we all can add to this and bring great products to life!
As an avid android phone user, as well as a android tablet user, after comparing it with an iPad, my only gripe with my android tablet is the lack of productivity applications.
I can't seem to find one that fits my needs well enough. Most productivity apps (e.g. note taking, office applications) seems to be subpar and not a worthy laptop replacement. I haven't found a worthy office application on the iPad either. However, for note taking with a capacitive pen, iPad do have applications that performs pretty well, and those are mighty useful from the feel of it. This is my biggest gripe about the android tablet. This is coming from a university student, and of course it is probably less related to business based in terms of note taking.
Productivity aside, I love using my android tablet to watch shows, moboplayer is simply one good media player that is really convenient, unlike the iOS. As for games, there are hardly any games worth playing on the mobile platform. If I wanted proper games, I'd pick up my DS or PSP along the way rather than playing some half assed game on iOS or Android. This is my personal opinion of mobile platform gaming, most of the games are largely boring, that being said, there are some A grade games being ported off PC indie games that are worth playing on the mobile platform. Other than that, the general population of games arn't exactly worth playing.
Note to Mods: If this is in the wrong section, I truly am sorry, I just don't know where else this can go.
A note to peasants like me: LEAVE ALL YOUR BIAS BEHIND. Please make good argumentative points, don't just baselesly bash everyone who doesn't think like you. Also, don't just say "uhuh that sukz jst bcuz wow l00zer n00b ur mum" to back up your points.
Thanks.
Ok, now that that's out of the way, on to the elephant in the room:
I'm considering buying an unlocked phone to use for Tmo or Att prepaid plans here in the US. I'm seriously considering the iPhone 5, and the Nexus 4, or a considerably similar phone.
I want you(the community) to help me decide by making some points and just helping me out. This is a big decision and I trust you guys at XDA will help me make the correct decision.
Reasons why I'm considering the iPhone 5:
-Apps developed here almost always before Android, and usually run better on iOS than on Android (Temple Run, Instagram, etc.)
-Some apps exclusive to iOS, like Quizlet (This is a HUGE point, being that my main "studdy buddy" is Quizlet since StudyBlue has a garbage Android app.) (Also, in apps like Flipboard, certain channels blocked to
-iMessage: a lot, and I mean A LOT of my buddies own iPhones, I miss out on a lot of iMessage stuff.
-System-wide color Emoji support (this is the stupidest reason, this shouldn't even be a reason, but whatever)
-Better and much broader range of cases available(LifeProof is a huge bonus, as is Otterbox, etc.)
-Screen looks really nice (even though it's somewhat of a downgrade)
-Notification Center for the lock screen is GREAT imho.
-Find my iPhone and other services already baked in, rather than a standalone app
-Solid construction
Reasons why I'm considering the Nexus 4/Comparable devices
-Google Now
-Ability to make programs default programs, unlike iOS
-Customization
-Swappable keyboards
-Google Maps
-Already have a considerable amount of money (~$15) bought in Play Store stuff that I'd have to rebuy on App Store, plus the money in my Play Store account from credit for buying a Nexus 7 (~$20 left)
If I went the iPhone way, I'd make a complete switch, which means get rid of my N7, which I currently use for college, and replace it with an iPad, which I've heard is better for college.
So, XDA, can you help me make an educated and very expensive decision? Thanks. I'll be monitoring this thread
contract or locked for the iphone? personally i'd go with a nexus for the fact that it's unlocked at a great price, albeit not as great as a contracted phone. also depends if you love to flash or leave it out of the box? iphone only wins for ditching the glass on glass concept
nyamoV2 said:
contract or locked for the iphone? personally i'd go with a nexus for the fact that it's unlocked at a great price, albeit not as great as a contracted phone. also depends if you love to flash or leave it out of the box? iphone only wins for ditching the glass on glass concept
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Both would be unlocked. I like flashing new ROMs, but I'll usually wait until they're relatively stable or at least until basic necessities begin to work.
Depends , on what you like to do... But why do you say that is a downgrade the ip5 display, it has the most accurate colors....
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z0mg hwo cud u menshun appul produks on xda zomg u shud b kikband :laugh:
For the iphone: it works, good battery life, the newer versions of siri are pretty much tied with google now (whereas the older version was easily beat by google now), and most importantly, it works! (did I mention it works yet? well, it works). Apps tend to run better, and it just feels smoother. I hate to give it to apple, but I have never found an android phone with hardware as nicely done as on an iphone. The con is that it's extremely limited, and I don't like the UI.
nexus 4: just look through the XDA development forums. Then look back at that iphone...need I say more? :good:
added to that, I prefer the UI and the greater amount of customization. Also more great apps are free for android than on Iphone (or at least the ones I tend to use). Overall I feel that an android can do more easier than iphone can, provided you set things up right. I'm mostly looking at the homescreen, but also the settings menu, etc.
So obviously I'm biased towards an android, but I think an iphone has plenty of advantages as well.
Well, I'm sure you'll be told to go to the device recommendation thread - but I might as well post since I have nothing better to do and it's not locked yet.
I've had Apple devices before and have nothing against them. I bought a MacBook a few years back because it was the best choice for me at the time. I've since gotten rid of the "laptop" part of my device collection and use Linux and an Android tablet + phone. I considered the iPhone when I was shopping.
Personally, I do not like where the iPhone is at right now, that's one of the reasons I didn't go with it. I think Apple really needs to "re-think" iOS and do something perhaps like Samsung has with "Simple" and "Basic" modes for the UI - so that they can get to creating something more than a glorified App Drawer. It's an eyesore to me, and though I appreciate that it's familiar to many people, I don't think it's even the easiest configuration to use for new tech users.
I don't really know why an iPad would be better for "college" - I'm going to college right now and have seen people use both Apple and Android tablets. I think the Transformer series from ASUS is the most "college friendly" type of tablet, but I guess it depends on what you're trying to do with it.
If you can't tell, I love learning and playing around with the stuff I have. Android is a better playground for this than iOS which doesn't exactly encourage it. They like to cultivate their system to a high level, but I prefer being able to experiment even if it's possible the outcome will suck.
It really depends on what's important to YOU. I ended up choosing the SIII because I wanted a removable battery and micro SD card and Apple just didn't offer this no matter what. That's what I wanted and what was the "deal maker" for me. I also like that there's so much customisation without having to void the warranty. I can make this the phone I want - the UI is very important for me and while I don't mind OSX (although Ubuntu has done for the general OS look what OSX really ought to do) on a computer, I'm really not a fan of iOS - I feel like Apple's technology and ideas are great, but their software and design aesthetic are lagging - like if Windows 8 hadn't moved on and instead decided to keep the Win98 look so people would be "more comfortable". Because I wanted the removable battery + SD card, that would rule out the N4 for me, too. Personally, I'd still go for the SIII or wait for the IV.
I'm on T-Mobile, I switched from Sprint. I love the service, though I've heard it's not so great on an iPhone. I'd consider the plans and your area and what kind of service there is, too. I have 4G towers all over the city where my school is and get very fast speeds all over campus. But T-Mobile isn't everywhere and I think there are speed issues with the iPhone although if they're getting one, maybe they're changing things ? I don't know, since I'm not in the market for a new phone I haven't looked into this.
i would never suggest to go for a iphone for a simple reason of the difficulty in sharing media over bluetooth. I share a lot of stuff with my friends over bluetooth specially music which is not possible on iphone. i am unsure if the lates iphone 5 has these limitations removed or not. Maybe you could share via whatsapp or other messenger but there are times when there is no network coverage and you want to share stuff and thats when you need bluetooth.
This is well worth watching if you've haven't already, made a similar decision for me quite simple..
...If you like to customize, theme whatever then Get the Nexus, if you want a Phone that does what it says on the tin, and nothing more, get the iPhone.
Nexus 4 for me... Iphone 5 have a lot of problems...
Please ask such questions in the device suggestion thread.
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