Related
Currently have the Touch Pro (EU) running on Edge here in the US. I do not live in a 3G area, but I do travel into 3G areas 2-3 times a week visiting friends and on business.
I am unhappy with the GPS performance of the Touch Pro(EU) as I use it alot. Or I used to anyway on my Tilt. The GPS lag is just rediculous on a 900 dollar device.
Word is there are no GPS lag issues on the AT&T Fuze.
Now I'm trying to figure out whether to get the Fuze for occasional 3G access or just get the Touch HD and have Edge speeds?
I love the large screen on the Touch HD, 3.5mm jack, and 5mp camera...plus I'm sure there is no GPS lag either. I rarely get to use 3G and Edge is fine for email and business use. Wifi is always and option for sitting and surfing the net.
*Plus AT&T has disabled tethering on the fuze without a laptop data plan. Right now I can tether on my Touch Pro. I'm betting just flashing a different ROM would allow tethering to a laptop without a plan right?
I am a big physical keyboard fan, but having such a large screen on the Touch HD would make a software keyboard in landscape mode just as good for me.
i vote for Fuze for the following reasons:
better battery life than HD
physical keyboard
3G (if i'm paying the same amount for data plan, I'd want the faster speed)
cheaper than importing an HD
i agree HD is really nice with large screen, but i'm not sure what i'd need the large screen for. Watch video? but battery definitely won't last (this is the same problem in iphone 3g).
If $$ wasn't an issue for me i'd probably consider HD just so i can show off the phone.
then again, if storm were available on GSM i'd take storm over HD for the haptic feedback
baboola said:
i agree HD is really nice with large screen, but i'm not sure what i'd need the large screen for. Watch video? but battery definitely won't last (this is the same problem in iphone 3g).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Assuming the HD actually even plays decent video, as far as I'm aware all of our newer devices struggle to play VGA or higher video, am I wrong?
I say Fuze because for me, the keyboard is an essential part of it. I don't need a extra large screen because I really don't see the point of it. GPS is a non factor for me unless I'm drunk as hell and can't quite make it home lol. I like the HD but I just need the keyboard
HD doesn't have tv out, right? The Fuze still has it, right? I'd want the tv out.
I vote for Fuze as well.
* Physical keyboard. This is much better than trying to hit on screen keyboard. Even with Touch HD, if there is keyboard, screen space is reduced, isn't it?
* BTW, Does Fuse retain FM radio reception? Just curious, but with there are so many micro FM transmitter available, it may be nice to have that feature, IMHO.
(So far so good. Fuze is pretty much Raphael100 <GSM version> not Raphael 800 <CDMA version>)
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacomparer&id1=1472&id2=1306
baboola said:
i vote for Fuze for the following reasons:
better battery life than HD
physical keyboard
3G (if i'm paying the same amount for data plan, I'd want the faster speed)
cheaper than importing an HD
i agree HD is really nice with large screen, but i'm not sure what i'd need the large screen for. Watch video? but battery definitely won't last (this is the same problem in iphone 3g).
If $$ wasn't an issue for me i'd probably consider HD just so i can show off the phone.
then again, if storm were available on GSM i'd take storm over HD for the haptic feedback
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you read that I don't live in a 3G area? Battery life should be about the same as it doesn't have to power a physical keyboard either. Not to mention The Touch HD will be running on Edge and draw less power.
utvol06 said:
Did you read that I don't live in a 3G area? Battery life should be about the same as it doesn't have to power a physical keyboard either. Not to mention The Touch HD will be running on Edge and draw less power.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes but i also read that you do travel into 3G area.
also, physical keyboard doesn't draw that much power. according to HTC, HD does have shorter battery life than TP. I simply listed the things I'd look for. Take it with a grain of salt (although it sounds like you've made up your mind already, so why bother soliciting opinions? they're both awesome phones!!)
The keyboard doesn't draw any power. It uses the same amount of power as pressing buttons anywhere else on the device. Also, it probably uses less power to type on the keyboard than on the screen because it has to process where you tapped and also T9.
Hard call, I love the screen on the HD, however with that size of a display I would want 3g to work. I also am not sure about virtual keyboards. My wife has the Vu and its keyboard is pretty good. But my fingers are too large and lengthy typing on it is a pain since I have to be so precise.
I would have to hold it to see if I could live with the HD every day. To that end I will be getting the fuze since I know I will like the keybard.
Battery life is also important, like HTC said when they were shocked by the demand for the HD in the markets that wont be getting it. They will work on it for the next device. By that time we might have a faster processor and get it straight to the states making it a better buy to wait for.
10332007 said:
Hard call, I love the screen on the HD, however with that size of a display I would want 3g to work. I also am not sure about virtual keyboards. My wife has the Vu and its keyboard is pretty good. But my fingers are too large and lengthy typing on it is a pain since I have to be so precise.
I would have to hold it to see if I could live with the HD every day. To that end I will be getting the fuze since I know I will like the keybard.
Battery life is also important, like HTC said when they were shocked by the demand for the HD in the markets that wont be getting it. They will work on it for the next device. By that time we might have a faster processor and get it straight to the states making it a better buy to wait for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good point thanks...Now I think I'm leaning a little more towards the Fuze for 3G...plus its cheaper.
I see you went for the Touch HD haha.
Hope it works out for ya...
fUSE HAS TETHERHING NOT WORKING
I think my tethering is not working on my Fuse, did At&t cripple this feature, no $60 internet plan no tethering??? Did they try to make sure? Also would a cooked ROM solve the tethering issue?
dunno how many of you saw this but i am very disappointed and pissed off about this little news if its true
http://pocketpc-live.com/top-stories/bad-news-for-pocketpc-sling-users.html
Not only have ATT 3G network crashed nurmious times but the fact that they bragging about having the fastest 3G nationwide is a bit of a over hyped statement if they cant simply handle data streaming of Sling Media but they could allow they crappy knock off *CV TV*
allthatinny said:
Not only have ATT 3G network crashed nurmious times but the fact that they bragging about having the fastest 3G nationwide is a bit of a over hyped statement if they cant simply handle data streaming of Sling Media but they could allow they crappy knock off *CV TV*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not that I'm a fan of the policy by any stretch, but I can't help but want to agree with them in targeting Sling.
It reminds me of when I was in college (around 2000) and the network admin was debating a ban on counterstrike communicating outside of the dorms because it took just 20 players to slow something as simple as web browsing to the point pages frequently timed out. Note, at the time Counterstrike's network code was a joke and the college didn't have a very good internet connection to the dorms anyway (the campus was on a different connection).
The comparison is easy to make, as Sling isn't well optimized at all. For network management, it uses Windows Media Video 9 (VC-1) to handle network transmissions, which (I'm told, I can't claim expert knowledge) is only good within local networks or a very small number of hops over the internet, otherwise it becomes confused and tends to fire more data than it should. There's also the issue of I-Frame intervals, which appear to be set rather low by default (meaning higher I-Frames). I-Frames take more data and cause higher bandwidth. Searching didn't turn up many positive comments about sling's video scaling (which obviously should be done if it's played on a screen small enough to fit in your pocket). I admit, this information comes from some quick googling, so it may possibly lack in accuracy, but it does hint that Sling isn't well suited to efficient use on a cellular data network.
I realize some people use Sling for home security cameras or possibly some other useful scenario other than watching TV, but let's be honest....if it's just about watching an episode of Grey's Anatomy on your phone while at work...then it's pretty lame. Obviously technology CAN support this, but only as long as it's a few people doing it. If the idea caught on, it would bring down any cellular network.
I admit, I'm not a Sling user, so perhaps I'm a little biased...
does that mean they've blocked sling's connection completely?
and i think it's b.s...we all paid the hefty fee for data plan so we should all be entitled to the 5GB or so soft cap. cut off the connection after the user has reached that limit! they can't just censor certain applications to help the network run more smoothly. they were supposed to provide a network that CAN sustain such traffic in the first place. If AT&T can't hold up to that much, they deserve to be and will be sued (unless of course they lower our data plan fees)
oh, and I think sling brought it upon themselves when they came out with the iphone app. i get the feeling AT&T only started this now because iphone users are feeling cheated ("the winmo users can watch sling, so why can't we?") this should teach iphone app developers a lesson! =p
Slingplayer is still working fine.
AT&T may just end up forbidding sling from working on their network in further software releases.
baboola said:
and i think it's b.s...we all paid the hefty fee for data plan so we should all be entitled to the 5GB or so soft cap. cut off the connection after the user has reached that limit! they can't just censor certain applications to help the network run more smoothly. they were supposed to provide a network that CAN sustain such traffic in the first place. If AT&T can't hold up to that much, they deserve to be and will be sued (unless of course they lower our data plan fees)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not really arguing here, I just wanted to point out that if you replace every instance of 'AT&T' with 'COMCAST' you will have the argument that was made by Comcast customers in 2007 about bittorrent traffic being blocked. Comcast backed down due to bad press, and a number of legal issues (primary reasons being that they didn't publicly admit to the censorship, and because their method of censorship was fraudulent...they were faking network packets, not just blocking them). Comcast didn't fully back down, but just adjusted their policy and tightened their methods of handling heavy customers. Note, this is a full sized ISP working over high speed cable, not a wireless provider that ALSO offers internet.
AT&T might back down, but I have the feeling this isn't going to draw enough ire to build the large public outcry that's necessary. I certainly doubt that they would lose any legal case regarding this. Even a legal case built around anti-competitive practices would fail since there's other methods to get video onto a phone via wireless.
Sling might stand to get some trouble since a lot of people surely bought into the equipment and iPhone app at the same time, and now won't get much use from either.
Of course, Sling may also consider suing AT&T if this becomes a protocol block...They actually stand a chance of winning that fight.
reason why i said they not up to par is due to the fact that technology is changing, we are streaming almost everything over networks now, its like att said "Your world connected"
movies is being streamed over networks, communcations, video feeds, audio, data, near everything and another big factor, is HD (Hi-Def) everyone wants HD cuz the quality is awesome but some companies complain about heavy usage when in reality streaming a full size HD movie is not easy, can we be blame cuz they network cant handle the traffic, NO! not like we not paying our monthly service fees but putting softcaps and all these stupid things is just plan out stupid and its stopping use from evolving.
hell i had my ISP put a cap on me once for hosting a game server from my PS3 console, i was hosting a TF2 server i think, and they told me that i cant do it cuz its agaisnt policy yet the feature is in video games to use and to allow us to play, what if every ISP in the world were to enforce that rule then all servers will have to be run by software companies and we will be changed for it to maintain they servers.
i personally think att NEEDS to upgrade they network to meet with todays demand, cuz when Hi Def really settles, what will happen then, ATT will change they policy just to hold us back.
allthatinny said:
Movies is being streamed over networks, communcations, video feeds, audio, data, near everything and another big factor, is HD (Hi-Def) everyone wants HD cuz the quality is awesome but some companies complain about heavy usage when in reality streaming a full size HD movie is not easy, can we be blame cuz they network cant handle the traffic, NO! not like we not paying our monthly service fees but putting softcaps and all these stupid things is just plan out stupid and its stopping use from evolving.
...
i personally think att NEEDS to upgrade they network to meet with todays demand, cuz when Hi Def really settles, what will happen then, ATT will change they policy just to hold us back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree completely with your end-point that AT&T needs to upgrade and they are under-performing given the price point we pay.
However, I think your reasoning is completely wrong. HD Video? If we had any phones that could REALLY handle HD video, it might be a different subject. You're talking about 2 things that are kind of absurd at this point, streaming HD over cellular wireless and actually being able to identify a measurable difference on a phone once you have it. Wired ISPs are having enough trouble with streaming HD, a wireless provider can't compete with them. Keep in mind, HSDPA's (not 3g) highest realistic transmission speed is only barely capable of meeting the lowest acceptable speed for streaming 720i video. Please also remember, the NEW cool toys for home theater is hardware capable of short range streaming of HD, you're talking about very long range. Second, what phone is going to display HD video substantially better than decently encoded standard def video? On screens this small, HD video is a waste of time. Once TV-Out is adopted and displays something other than a pure screen copy (which automatically displays only the phone's resolution), then the subject can be brought back up. Keep in mind, I'm talking about current phones, not those that are coming eventually with the Tegra chip or other future implementations. In a year, the technological realities could shift enough that a very small percentage of users could be talking about this stuff, but today it's not a part of the real use case scenarios.
In my opinion, here are the real reasons this news should be bad and we need to push AT&T to improve their network:
a) The point of forcing iPhone users to get a data plan was to fund improvement of the 3g and hsdpa capabilities of their network. We've suffered through the poor performance caused by the iPhone, now it's time to see the network improve beyond the point it was at BEFORE the evil phone came.
b) The solution to the problem should never be banning a protocol/service/feature. Raising cost or putting limits on it would be reasonable, but completely blocking something is absurd and unreasonable.
c) I know I had another reason, but I forgot it while typing....
speed_pour said:
I agree completely with your end-point that AT&T needs to upgrade and they are under-performing given the price point we pay.
However, I think your reasoning is completely wrong. HD Video? If we had any phones that could REALLY handle HD video, it might be a different subject. You're talking about 2 things that are kind of absurd at this point, streaming HD over cellular wireless and actually being able to identify a measurable difference on a phone once you have it. Wired ISPs are having enough trouble with streaming HD, a wireless provider can't compete with them. Keep in mind, HSDPA's (not 3g) highest realistic transmission speed is only barely capable of meeting the lowest acceptable speed for streaming 720i video. Please also remember, the NEW cool toys for home theater is hardware capable of short range streaming of HD, you're talking about very long range. Second, what phone is going to display HD video substantially better than decently encoded standard def video? On screens this small, HD video is a waste of time. Once TV-Out is adopted and displays something other than a pure screen copy (which automatically displays only the phone's resolution), then the subject can be brought back up. Keep in mind, I'm talking about current phones, not those that are coming eventually with the Tegra chip or other future implementations. In a year, the technological realities could shift enough that a very small percentage of users could be talking about this stuff, but today it's not a part of the real use case scenarios.
In my opinion, here are the real reasons this news should be bad and we need to push AT&T to improve their network:
a) The point of forcing iPhone users to get a data plan was to fund improvement of the 3g and hsdpa capabilities of their network. We've suffered through the poor performance caused by the iPhone, now it's time to see the network improve beyond the point it was at BEFORE the evil phone came.
b) The solution to the problem should never be banning a protocol/service/feature. Raising cost or putting limits on it would be reasonable, but completely blocking something is absurd and unreasonable.
c) I know I had another reason, but I forgot it while typing....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok lets take HD out of the pic even though its not to far away, but lets say a netflix video streaming software for windows mobile.
if i pay my monthly service charge on att end and netflix, they put a 5G softcap, one movie alone will eat up alot of that 5GB of bandwidth
i moved from the iphone and i could tell u that iphone 3G has awesome streaming compatiblity there was this one site called PublicPost that had movies on there for free with limited about of user, got closed down due to legal reason but i use to be at work watching really hot movies at great audio and sound with no hiccup problem but the fact that att wanting to ban tv streaming is a bit over the edge
"Up to Par??" Never has been
I worked for Cingular right after AT&T bought them until the week they started rebranding their phones as AT&T.
Warning on my bias
As much as I appreciate their innovations as a company, like being the first company to offer simultaneous use of Voice & Data by way of 3G and having the most popular and innovative phone on their network... I was horribly dissappointed at a bunch of their choices.
-They transitioned too fast and incompletely. ie. They were still removing/upgrading old AT&T Wireless components on their towers as they began rolling out 3G in other areas.
-Many people I know, including myself, lost signal almost completely as they transitioned voice to higher frequencies (1900mHz) and WCDMA/3G to replace them on the lower freqs. (Lower frequencies, 850 & 900mHz, offer better penetration through solids like trees & buildings. T-mobile is still the only carrier I get 1-2 bars in my basement...underground). What a waste! Especially since there are already so many 3G phones overseas that only use the 2100mHz WCDMA.
-Infrastructure. Infrastructure. Infrastructure.
How does a telecommunication company not give itself the Infrastructure to support the demand that they knew the iPhone would bring.
I'm glad I'm not helping them deal with the nightmare they made for themselves. Someone would have to pay me to give up my Sprint TouchPro. Who, btw, had the first 3G ntwork and still has the fastest. I'm happy to see people leave Sprint to get an iPhone cause it makes the network even faster lol.
sc00basteve said:
I worked for Cingular right after AT&T bought them until the week they started rebranding their phones as AT&T.
Warning on my bias
As much as I appreciate their innovations as a company, like being the first company to offer simultaneous use of Voice & Data by way of 3G and having the most popular and innovative phone on their network... I was horribly dissappointed at a bunch of their choices.
-They transitioned too fast and incompletely. ie. They were still removing/upgrading old AT&T Wireless components on their towers as they began rolling out 3G in other areas.
-Many people I know, including myself, lost signal almost completely as they transitioned voice to higher frequencies (1900mHz) and WCDMA/3G to replace them on the lower freqs. (Lower frequencies, 850 & 900mHz, offer better penetration through solids like trees & buildings. T-mobile is still the only carrier I get 1-2 bars in my basement...underground). What a waste! Especially since there are already so many 3G phones overseas that only use the 2100mHz WCDMA.
-Infrastructure. Infrastructure. Infrastructure.
How does a telecommunication company not give itself the Infrastructure to support the demand that they knew the iPhone would bring.
I'm glad I'm not helping them deal with the nightmare they made for themselves. Someone would have to pay me to give up my Sprint TouchPro. Who, btw, had the first 3G ntwork and still has the fastest. I'm happy to see people leave Sprint to get an iPhone cause it makes the network even faster lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you talking about? Really? You're wrong on a half a dozen counts.
AT&T bought absolutely nothing, in any part of their weird buyout ridden last 5 years. From Wikipedia: "Formerly a joint venture between SBC Communications and BellSouth, Cingular Wireless soon acquired the old AT&T Wireless; SBC later acquired the original AT&T and re-branded as "the new AT&T". Cingular became wholly-owned by the new AT&T in December 2006 as a result of AT&T's acquisition of BellSouth." The 3G rollout was already underway before anyone bought anything, I remember hearing about it when I signed up for AT&T Wireless in 2004. They didn't transition incompletely or anything, they've got the "world's fastest 3G network" running on a backbone barely fit for an MMORPG player.
T-Mobile is 1900 MHz ONLY, and uses 1700 MHz for 3G; you just get good signal in your basement because the tower is nearby.
Sounds like Sprint needs to pay you a little bit more to plug them like a salesman.
To the OP: Yes, AT&T sucks. I hate them for that too, blocking Sling because they know their network would crumble like a stack of cards if even 10% of us started seriously using our 3G.
sheik124 said:
To the OP: Yes, AT&T sucks. I hate them for that too, blocking Sling because they know their network would crumble like a stack of cards if even 10% of us started seriously using our 3G.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, just asking for a bit of a quantification of this statement. It's true AT&T would flop and die like a fish out of water, but what carrier wouldn't?
In the interest of staying on topic, and reissuing my question more contextually; since Verizon is possibly going to gain sales rights to the iPhone, does anybody think that with a mass purchasing of the iPhone under Verizon that they may also suffer serious network degradation with regular uptake of the Sling app? Would they have a different response? Given Verizon's history, I think they would likely demand to filter appStore apps, which almost certainly includes the Sling app.
It's not that I disagree on the problems with AT&T, and I'm not trying to be an apologist for them (I swear, I really don't mean to be), but I see a lot of negative comments which seem to ignore that all of the other carriers are just as bad/incapable/inadequate/incompetent. Normally I ignore all of it, but today seems to have brought it out of me.
gee i think they should work on the cell sites handling handoffs' before they go worrying about much else. Constantly losing calls/data when i hit a new cell site outside of boston. Its getting old.
At&t sucks
same thing happens to me when am entering and leaving staten island, happens on both the ferry and on the bridge
Not sure if those who are interested have seen this, but over the in the Kaiser forum the same subject was brought up (albeit, more relevant subject line). A possible work-around is described for interested parties (assuming AT&T actually does any filtering on the protocol). Here's the thread: Slingbox users beware...At&t limiting 3g access
speed_pour said:
Sorry, just asking for a bit of a quantification of this statement. It's true AT&T would flop and die like a fish out of water, but what carrier wouldn't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm. Definitely Sprint.
I'm on a Sprint SERO plan and they have never complained about my data usage. That probably why they haven't said anything, but seriously. I will repeat: I'm happy to see people leave Sprint to get an iPhone cause it makes the network even faster lol.
I did 2.7+ gigs of data last month and 6+ the month before that.
Last night I tested this:
'nuff said
sc00basteve said:
Umm. Definitely Sprint.
I'm on a Sprint SERO plan and they have never complained about my data usage. That probably why they haven't said anything, but seriously. I will repeat: I'm happy to see people leave Sprint to get an iPhone cause it makes the network even faster lol.
I did 2.7+ gigs of data last month and 6+ the month before that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Somehow I suspect you live on the East Coast. My whole time growing up and living on the West Coast, there's only a few people I know that didn't complain about Sprint. Actually, Sprint is the only carrier that people around here have a serious problem with. I worked for a company for a short time that had a lot of people travel from Tennessee to here and each of them used Sprint, they all said that they had the best experience with it until they came here, then it was nearly unusable. Obviously, it's just like radio versions, quality depends entirely on the circumstances.
I do have to say, several months ago I drove from southern California most of the way up the west coast, downloaded a few movies and tv shows, then did the same on the trip back 2 weeks later. While I didn't count total amounts, the video alone had to be at least 4 gigs. That didn't count any of my data usage with web browsing or any time between trips. I also only had 3 dropped signals in more than 1000 miles (once in the desert, once at shasta mountain, and once in a mountain pass in southern oregon). On this coast, in my experience, AT&T is pretty rock solid and Sprint is difficult to use. Not sure about Verizon or TMo though, not many friends on either of those.
That makes sense
It does make sense. I was out in San Francisco a couple of years ago, when I had ATT, and it was really solid.
But Sprint users, fear not. I was talking to a teir2 tech a couple month ago and he was part of the citywide testing for WiMax in Seattle. I think it was Seattle, at least. Anyway, Baltimore rollout is functional and rollout + testing in many cities is an awesome sign.
ahhahaha sprint. Yea go for sprint, if you want a network that will be bought up soon. I cannot tell you how many sprint people have been laid off in the past 5 months. (cell techs+) They are almost ready to go belly up. And the 4g is a joke.
First they plopped all the 4g's on teh ground and started hooking them up. Then they went out and pulled them all and now they are beginning to put them back.. (my guess is so whoever buys them will see the numbers)
bottom line.... i wouldnt touch sprint w/ a 10foot pole right now.
At least MetroPCS is transparent. They are basically building verizon's new sites. hahahah Cdma2000 and 4g ready. lolz
well this is a bit off topic but here we go again, att practically embrass themself at the apple WWDC, no MMS support of iPhone, NO TETHERING,
and if ur a existing att customer and want to buy the new iphone u gotta pay any where from 299-399 with a new 2 YEAR CONTRACT, pfft not going through that again if i cant even stream sling media over they network, att can kiss my a$$
allthatinny said:
well this is a bit off topic but here we go again, att practically embrass themself at the apple WWDC, no MMS support of iPhone, NO TETHERING,
and if ur a existing att customer and want to buy the new iphone u gotta pay any where from 299-399 with a new 2 YEAR CONTRACT, pfft not going through that again if i cant even stream sling media over they network, att can kiss my a$$
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I kinda hoped to be done with this thread, but I was already reading the WWDC coverage and got a huge laugh and the coverage (the fact that they described the entire hall laughing at the tethering support issue). In point of fact, Apple is lying...a LOT.
MMS support is missing because Apple implemented the MMS protocol differently than virtually every handset maker in the world. The "upgrades" aren't performance upgrades, they are functional upgrades to support the alternate implementation. The story I heard from one of the techs is that AT&T wasn't made aware of this until just a few months ago and they weren't given time to implement software upgrades.
Tethering support has nothing to do with performance (though that's obviously going to be an issue). It's all about Apple and AT&T STILL discussing the pricing for the tethering plan. My theory, worth little more than a grain of salt, is that apple is trying to take a cut of tethering on top of the profits they already get from each plan...why else does apple need to negotiate when at&t already has set prices for this feature.
As to pricing...I don't see why everybody is throwing a huge fuss...Does every iphone user think they are god's children? If they want to upgrade their phone every year, they need to either be ready to pay a high price or have an upgrade coming. If Apple expects people to do this, then they should either create an trade-in plan, or some special mail-in rebate offer to existing iphone owners. That's not a carrier's job, not when the handsets are already subsidized so heavily.
The hardware upgrades for apple are laughable anyway. The new handset only comes with an upgraded camera and they finally flipped the switch on video recording that every jailbroken phone already had. Apple is just soaking their fanboys for money. I'm expecting 3G owners are going to see a tutorial in 2 months on how to replace the existing camera with the 3 megapixel one from the 3gs. Combined with jailbreaking, 3g owners will be able to have a 3gs at the cost of throwing out their warranty and buying a $30 replacement camera component.
Verizon is getting ready to launch the HTC Thunderbolt/Incredible HD, which is an androidd phone with a front facing camera (basically verizons version of the Evo).
I know they have the trophy and a couple other wp7 devices on the way but i wanted to know will there be any devices with a front facing camera? is Windows Phone 7 capable of using a front facing camera? since the launch of iphone 4, the newest ipod touch and the evo, the front facing Camera has been the latest craze in cell phone features, im currently eyeing the HTC 7 Pro if verizon gets it in January but if they will have future phones and wp7 is capable of handling a front facing camera i may consider waiting. I havent seen anything about wp7 and front facing cameras so i was curious is this was even possible with wp7
I don't see why not really. Just a matter of getting drivers setup for it.
I remember reading somewhere (don't remember where) about a portrait camera mentioned in the code somewhere, so yes, in theory is hould support them, it is up to the OEM's to put them in.
deadwrong03 said:
Verizon is getting ready to launch the HTC Thunderbolt/Incredible HD, which is an androidd phone with a front facing camera (basically verizons version of the Evo).
I know they have the trophy and a couple other wp7 devices on the way but i wanted to know will there be any devices with a front facing camera? is Windows Phone 7 capable of using a front facing camera? since the launch of iphone 4, the newest ipod touch and the evo, the front facing Camera has been the latest craze in cell phone features, im currently eyeing the HTC 7 Pro if verizon gets it in January but if they will have future phones and wp7 is capable of handling a front facing camera i may consider waiting. I havent seen anything about wp7 and front facing cameras so i was curious is this was even possible with wp7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What good would it be if there's no software/apps supporting it? Until it's added to MS'es minimum hardware standard for WP7, it would be pretty pointless having one on a device. This is the problem with the minimum standard approach...it's too minimum to seriously compete with other devices.
WhyBe said:
What good would it be if there's no software/apps supporting it? Until it's added to MS'es minimum hardware standard for WP7, it would be pretty pointless having one on a device. This is the problem with the minimum standard approach...it's too minimum to seriously compete with other devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then get an Android device and have fun complaining about how 95% of the people you know can't video chat with you anyways.
The hardware specs have to be reasonably minimum. OEM that want to make and sell an awesome phone can and will go above the minimum.
Android has no minimum specs and that creates obvious issues. You act like the grass is greener there.
Furthermore even if they did have them on first Gen devices they'd probably be VGA front came, which are about as good as not having one at all IMO...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
N8ter said:
The hardware specs have to be reasonably minimum. OEM that want to make and sell an awesome phone can and will go above the minimum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they won't and neither will the available apps support it. What's the iP4 minimum spec?
Android has no minimum specs and that creates obvious issues. You act like the grass is greener there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Were you referring to me? I said nothing about Android.
Furthermore even if they did have them on first Gen devices they'd probably be VGA front cam, which are about as good as not having one at all IMO...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What type of front cam are you expecting? Video chat is only going to support a very small resolution. VGA is more than enough.
WhyBe said:
No they won't and neither will the available apps support it. What's the iP4 minimum spec?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The i4 minimum and maximum spec is what Apple designed into the phone. iPhone is one phone model from basically one manufacturer.
I like how you asked about that phone particularly, though. Apple has always maintained one device for all of its touch devices (iTouch and iPhone). Microsoft has minimum specs, but the manufacturers can go above it if they want. Most of hte phones went with minimum specs because it's a new platform and OEMs want to test the water.
Can you blame them? No. Android didn't come out the gate with 6+ phones on several carriers, AFAIK, and it was facing many of the same hurdles that Microsoft is facing with WP7. The only difference is that Microsoft is going about it in a more organized and sane fashion than Google did (Google just cares about getting Android on as many phones as possible, user experience has always been secondary).
Were you referring to me? I said nothing about Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You inferred Android and iOS when you insinuated they wouldn't be able to compete with the current minimum specs. You don't have to say it, most people can read between the lines.
What type of front cam are you expecting? Video chat is only going to support a very small resolution. VGA is more than enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some devices have 1.3 MegaPixel front cams. On an HSPA+, WiMax, or 4G LTE connection the network can more than handle video conferencing at that resolution. VGA sensors are notoriously bad in low light situations (unless the device does some post processing magic).
They simply aren't that good, especially when they can take the place of something that ads value as well like a LED indicator (with different colors), etc. VGA quality is just bad. It's bad no a 6+ mbps home internet connection, and it's bad on a cell phone.
Furtherore, 90% of phones don't have a front cam (at least in the US), so they are still more of a novelty feature than something that is required or should even be expected.
A good example is the Nexus S, which has no LED indicator light, and had to shed HD video recording to make room for the NFC chip. Since most people want thinner, lighter phones. It ultimately means the phones have less room in them, so concessions have to be made.
I think the OS can support FFCs, but until these video chat networks become more popular and are more fleshed out I don't see a need to rush it.
@N8ter:
Again, having a minimum spec leads to all of the apps supporting mainly the minimum spec devices. This happened with WVGA, accelerometers, extra RAM, and FFC's on WM devices. No matter how many devices WP7 or Android has, they are ALL competing with one iP4. The iP4 minimum spec (it's only spec) is pretty much cutting edge.
Because companies (especially Android and MS) seem to be run by accountants (as opposed to smartphone enthusiasts and designers), I don't expect many to try and go above the minimum standard. Even if they do, refer to my first paragraph.
Video calling dictates a certain resolution regardless of the camera you're using. There won't be any 1.3MP video conferencing for a while (bandwidth limitations). And besides, megapixels DO NOT improve picture quality. This is a popular misconception about camera quality.
Maybe you're in a different country/carrier but the video resolution is dictated by the carrier, not the device. So no mater how many MP you camera has, the carrier specifies it's video chat resolution.
When 4G actually becomes standard and carriers stop charging an arm and a leg for it, video chat will take off.
everyone shut it about android... the person asked a question about front facing cameras... the answer is, at present they aren't supported but given how times are changing i would expect them to come for windows phone 8 (though this is still another 2 years away, so hopefully MS relaxes a bit and we see them earlier then that).
n8ter, i think you misunderstood the lead in sentances about what is available, and what will shortly available. it didn't read like a slam on wp7, or promoting android phones. you might be more sensitive in that area than needed ?
i'm very curious about if/when wp7 devices will have video calling. having a 3 way communication between an android, iphone, and wp7 would be such an awesome achievement technically speaking.
WP7 doesn't support front facing cameras. As someone stated earlier maybe in WP8, or hopefully the Mango Update.
Another thing, you guys keep mentioning WP7 Minimum Specs, but you never mention the Restrictions. OEM's can't do a lot of stuff.
WhyBe said:
@N8ter:
Again, having a minimum spec leads to all of the apps supporting mainly the minimum spec devices. This happened with WVGA, accelerometers, extra RAM, and FFC's on WM devices. No matter how many devices WP7 or Android has, they are ALL competing with one iP4. The iP4 minimum spec (it's only spec) is pretty much cutting edge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends on how you look at it. 3GS was pretty cutting edge, but halfway through its lifecycle other handsets eclipsed it. This happens with every phone. Nexus One? HD2? They were all cutting edge at some point in time. I don't know if the i4 can be referred to as cutting edge anymore. Even when it was released, it wasn't much better than other devices like the Galaxy S, Droid X, and a couple others. The only thing it has is the Retina Screen (but Samsung has sAMOLED, and IIRC a better GPU in the Galaxy S phones... so not the i4 wasn't as revolutionary as you're insinuating).
Apple achieves good performance through decent programming and standardized specs. The hardware isn't so OMGCRAZY. The designs are nice too, people like that in their "lifestyle" gadgets...
It's not good to base a platform off of "cutting edge" hardware unless you are the only one developing it. This works for Game Consoles and the iPhone. It does not work for Android and WP7 handsets. The business model is different. Making the minimum specs cutting edge discriminates against low cost assemblers (by making them incapable of competing with the likes of Samsung, Motorola, HTC in price, since you're making the OEMs spend ridiculous amounts just to build the phones) and locks you out of emerging markets (full of people who won't be able to afford the devices to begin with). It also makes it near impossible for most people to purchase the devices off contract, due to cost.
Not everyone wants to buy $600-700 phones.
Because companies (especially Android and MS) seem to be run by accountants (as opposed to smartphone enthusiasts and designers), I don't expect many to try and go above the minimum standard. Even if they do, refer to my first paragraph.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The platform is new. You SHOULDN'T expect many to go above minimum standard. Although it is out of the realm of certainty, failure is still an option at this point.
Video calling dictates a certain resolution regardless of the camera you're using. There won't be any 1.3MP video conferencing for a while (bandwidth limitations). And besides, megapixels DO NOT improve picture quality. This is a popular misconception about camera quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Megapixels do improve picture quality
If you're video chatting with someone on a desktop via VGA webcam (or VGA FFC) and they go to full screen mode your picture will look terrible.
Using tech like Fring's DVQ you can adjust the quality of the stream based on available bandwidth/connection speed and current "4G" technologies (HSPA+, LTE, and WiMax) are more than capable of handling HD Video Conferencing.
I know, because my internet connection here is slower than T-Mobile's 3G and I conference from my "home work computer" all the time using a HD WebCam.
Maybe you're in a different country/carrier but the video resolution is dictated by the carrier, not the device. So no mater how many MP you camera has, the carrier specifies it's video chat resolution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This information is patently false. What resolutions your video camera can record in is hardware. If it doesn't have a sensor capable of doing HD video, it won't do HD video.
The only way the carriers have anything to do with it, is if they ask the OEM to take out an HD FFC and replace it with VGA (which most will naturally do - NOW - because the demand for FFC is low and most people simply won't care).
But VGA quality streaming is terrible. I rather have a LED indicator at this point in time than a VGA front cam.
When 4G actually becomes standard and carriers stop charging an arm and a leg for it, video chat will take off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Current "4G" is not charged an arm and a leg for, and people here aren't forced to go with expensive carriers (AT&T and Verizon) unless they live in areas where the smaller networks cannot get them decent coverage, they want a phone exclusive to the carrier, or they can afford it and simply don't care about the price.
The reason Video Chatting didn't take off is because phones are already expensive enough. Putting a FFC in a phone usually means losing something else that has value ALL the time in ALL situations. Also, most phones do NOT have front facing cams on them, so there isn't much reason to want one right now. It's like getting a Blackberry for BBM, when you have no one to BBM... Why bother?
By the time FFCs become an "expected" feature, most people who brought a phone in 2010 will be getting ready to upgrade, and can simply get a phone with a FFC on it...
On top of that, most smartphone OSes don't have the capabilities in-built into the OS. Trying to video chat when you have people using 10 different video chat apps is ridiculously hard. You can't just download one client to access them all like you do for IM services. It's too much of a hassle right now. That's why BBM keeps people on Blackberries, but no one has heard of WhatsApp and half of the people you know on non-Android phones can't be bothered to download and use Google Talk.
The demand simply isn't that high, and people who need it for business reasons, etc. simply get a phone with that capability - irregardless of what OS it runs. Getting stuff done > preference.
Also, there are very, very few things that will kill your battery faster than video chatting.
A phone that turns off halfway during the day isn't fun to use - FFC or not.
ohgood said:
n8ter, i think you misunderstood the lead in sentances about what is available, and what will shortly available. it didn't read like a slam on wp7, or promoting android phones. you might be more sensitive in that area than needed ?
i'm very curious about if/when wp7 devices will have video calling. having a 3 way communication between an android, iphone, and wp7 would be such an awesome achievement technically speaking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't misunderstand anything.
I'm just calling a spade a spade.
vetvito said:
WP7 doesn't support front facing cameras. As someone stated earlier maybe in WP8, or hopefully the Mango Update.
Another thing, you guys keep mentioning WP7 Minimum Specs, but you never mention the Restrictions. OEM's can't do a lot of stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have no idea what WP7 supports, because you don't have access to Microsoft's repositories or a list of the device drivers they have written. It's totally possible that the OS supports FFC (i.e. has drivers written) but there is no phone with the hardware and no Applications to take advantage of it.
Putting a FFC in a phone comes at a price. Monetarily and sometimes it can degrade the quality of the back camera in addition to requiring the OEM to remove something else in the device to make room for that FFC.
No one but a Microsoft WP7 driver dev can confirm or deny what hardware the OS supports. Anything else is pure speculation.
Asking if the OS supports FFC is a bad question. The question should be:
"When will a WP7 device with a FFC be released?"
Because whether or not it can support a FFC is irrelevant as long as there are no devices out there with FFCs in them.
When the devices with FFCs are released, rest assured that Microsoft will have written the drivers for it, and it will work as expected.
And with them releasing Lync with WP7 soon, expect these devices to start propping up probably in the first half of next year, if not the first quarter.
Video Conferencing is a major feature of Lync (the next version of Office Communicator).
In all honesty, what on earth do you want a front-facing camera for?
I remember a few years back having an HTC Tytn with a FFC, and I made one video call with it. The video was really awful quality, about 1 frame per second, and I could hardly see what was going on on the other end. To top it all, the call cost me £3.00 (50p per minute) and that call wasn't even included in my free call plan so it was added to my bill.
Video calling is an overpriced pile of crap and I cannot for the life of me see why anyone would want to use it.
Do you know how many times my friends and family have asked me if I can take video calls in the last 5 years? Never. There's a reason for that, and before you say it, it's not due to a lack of friends and family!
It's a rubbish technology looking for idiot customers with deep pockets.
Jim Coleman said:
Video calling is an overpriced pile of crap and I cannot for the life of me see why anyone would want to use it.
Do you know how many times my friends and family have asked me if I can take video calls in the last 5 years? Never. There's a reason for that, and before you say it, it's not due to a lack of friends and family!
It's a rubbish technology looking for idiot customers with deep pockets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely right! I have TP2 with front camera. Only once did I use it in the last 2 years. It is not worth it at all. Plus I have to clean the dirt off the lense area, and it is a pain in the butt.
Well Carriers don't charge for the type of video calling that Jim Coleman is talking about. It works over you data connection.
But he's right, it's not a priority because hardly anyone uses it, or even wants to use it. Only a few first party IM clients support it, it's a ridiculous battery drain, and for all practical purposes it's simply inconvenient.
Don't want to have to stare at a phone screen and hold my phone a certain way for half of my phone calls. Thanks but no thanks...
i can say that it was probably added onto the windows 7 phone platform and then dropped right before they put out the final specs. the LG panther, first win7phone didnt have it but the Samsung Taylor did. the front camera doesnt do anything on my taylor on the release version, but i suspect that it might be a future spec.
Stop misusing the word spec.
Microsoft will not make a front-facing camera a required feature in WP7, at least not anytime soon.
They do, however, need to make LED indicator lights a required feature.
I used to be a iPhone fanboy and somewhere along the way I thought I'd give Android a try and I got myself a Samsung SGS2. There must be a lot of people out there in the fruit cult wanting to be brought to the green robot cult or vice versa. Here's my complete NON-BIASED story that might help you out with consideration of both the user experience and the technical side of things.
WARNING: This is a looooooong story. So if you're not into a good long thread, please skip.
NOTE: The iPhone being discussed is a jailbroken, fully utilized iPhone. A non-jailbroken iPhone cannot come even close to the SGS2.
------------------------
APPS:
Surprisingly, the Android Market and the Apple AppStore are not created to be equal. Although most of the popular apps like Facebook, eBay, Google apps are available on both stores, the Apple equivalent apps are usually several versions ahead (i.e. Navigon, Tunein Radio, etc.) except for the Google-centric apps and/or other apps that I don't typically use. The apps simply look / feel better on an iPhone. But for sure they run faster on the SGS2 hands down. There's IXX0XX on the iPhone for the *free* apps. The Android-equivalent AXX, BXX, 4XX, etc simply cannot compete against it. Although it's much easier to find *free* Android apps from all over the place, IXX0XX, as a centralized place to go, has all of the popular high-quality paid apps/games, up-to-date version.
RESOLUTION / SCREEN SIZE
I don't know why people always want a 4.3", 4.5" or even bigger screen on a phone. For me, as long as the same amount of information can be displayed on a screen, that's what counts. The SGS2 screen is huge compared to the iPhone, and certainly things do appear bigger and easier to read. However, the iPhone resolution is just much higher. If you look very closely on an iPhone 4 screen, you simply cannot see the pixels, whereas for the SGS2 (non-HD version), it's just like every other smartphone, you can see the pixels (but not so bad). Why does this matter? Say, you open a webpage in overview on an iPhone, it's almost like the letters that are too small to see is because my sight is not good enough to read it. But with the SGS2, the letters that are too small to see is because the screen doesn't have a good-enough resolution to display it. This is the best way I can put it. The text does appear much sharper on the iPhone.
PHONE QUALITY / FEEL
This is really a personal preference. The SGS2 has a huge screen, so it is bigger. Both look very slick. I like the weight of the SGS2 because it feels much lighter so if I ever drop it, it *should not* be destroyed. The iPhone is a little too heavy. Heavier = Better Quality? I don't think so. Some people complain that the back cover of the SGS2 is just soft plastic. It feels quite good though. The textured surface prevents fingerprints. The iPhone is only good in terms of its size. I can do one-handed operation where my thumb can pretty much reach both sides of the screen. The SGS2 is slightly too big where it's not too comfortable to use it single-handedly over a long period of time.
ROOTING V.S. JAILBREAKING
Android ROOTING = iPhone JAILBREAKING. It is so much easier for the Android to be freed. You simply flash a rooted kernel, then you're "jailbroken" no matter what firmware version you have. Everytime an iOS version comes out, we have to wait for the Dev team to find a new security loophole in the firmware in order to get a jailbreak. Note that Apple appears to be hiring these bright guys one by one. Even if you can get a tethered jailbreak, it is still not acceptable. If your iOS ever crashes, you need to plug in your computer to properly boot the phone. What I really like about Android is that you can do everything without a computer (once rooted). You can flash new kernels, new ROMs, complete restore (nandroid), all without a computer. With an iPhone, if you want to reflash your firmware to newer/lower version, you need to be beside a computer, even for restoring apps / app settings.
BACKUP / RESTORE
On an iPhone, you cannot do a true "complete backup" because everytime you want to install a firmware to the phone, the firmware needs to be signed by Apple (or Tinyumbrella with your SHSH). And naturally, your saved data cannot be integrated to this "firmware". With the SGS2, there's a system partition and a user partition. And you can do a "nandroid" backup, which is a complete image of your system (think Norton Ghost or Acronis Home Image), saved on your sdcard partition or EMMC (external sdcard). On the iPhone, you need PkgBackup to backup your Cydia apps (as a list, now with settings as well), and Chronus to backup your AppStore apps. After the backup, you must copy the backup files (at least for Chronus) to the computer because you only have a single partition on the iPhone. A wipe will take your backup with it. On the SGS2, we can use CWM to do a complete system image as mentioned above, or use TitaniumBackup for individual apps (this includes both the app itself and the settings). If you use CWM, once restored, your phone is EXACTLY the way you left it. With TitaniumBackup, it's even a greater concept because you can constantly backup updated apps individually whereas with CWM you have to do a system image everytime. So this means the apps become like "modules" that you can put on different ROMs for instance.
LATEST PHONE??
The good thing about Apple is that once you get the iPhone of the year, you know you have the latest and greatest of that year because of the steady annual release. As for Android, once you buy one, another manufacturer might come up with a better (if not better, a slightly different hardware offering) phone that makes you wonder if you should've waited. This brings us to fragmentation. There are so many Android phones with all kinds of hardware combination and you just don't know which one is the best. As of this writing, the SGS2 is the best available phone IMHO, the SGS2HD is the even better one yet to come. But if you want a balance of specs and price, there are too many to choose from.
FRAGMENTATION / NOKIA
Why the heck would I mention Nokia here? In my opinion, I think one of the reasons why Nokia failed is that it tries come create so many differnt phones to suit the different needs of everybody whereas Apple created a phone that is good for all. Even worse, Nokia will create two phones with similar specs, and one phone will have a need-to-have feature while lacking one need-to-have feature, which appears on the other phone, which is itself not perfect. This is crap. They have the power to give you everything you want but they don't. With Apple, the user experience is the same for everybody. With an Android, I am hoping it doesn't get to the level of how Nokia played the game. Think of iPhone as a PS3 while the Android is a PC. A PC is all powerful, you can have different amount of RAM, different video cards, etc. Every PC user will tell you how they tweak their machine to achieve a certain benchmark score and you wonder why you can't or if the score posted is a fake. But with PS3, everybody playing the same game experience the same thing. That being said, there are too many firmwares (ROMs) to choose from for Android, each offering something different, suited for phones with different hardware. I think this model will be improved once Ice Cream Sandwich comes along where phones with different hardware can share just one firmware.
BACKGROUNDING / MULTITASKING
Android users keep saying that iPhone doesn't do true multitasking, which is somewhat true. But now that Android does full multitasking, everybody complains about battery life and everybody is looking for the "best task killer", which is not supposed to be required for a UNIX kernel. True, iPhone does not do true multiasking. But the iPhone "semi-multitasking" is very well implemented. Whenever you quit an app, the OS stores the last state of the app. So technically it has stopped running. But when you go back, you are at where you left it. This is great for most of the apps like games, readers, etc., where they don't really need to be running in the background. But for Nav apps like Navigon, Tomtom, or even Install0us while downloading an app, these apps do run in the background. With Backgrounder, you can set the behavior of how each app implement multitasking. With Android, every app can run in the background and there is no quick kill button. Although the kernel will kill the app automatically when the memory is low, some apps can misbehave. Try to have Dolphin HD Browser open a page with Flash content and go back to the home screen. The app simply keeps playing the flash content in the background all day long, draining your battery. Thankfully, there's Watchdog Task Manager, which does not blindly kill apps but use CPU threshold to determine what apps are misbehaving. To summarize, with Android, get Watchdog and Wave Launcher, then Multitasking works great. With iPhone, get Backgrounder and use Activate to set up a good gesture to bring up the multitasking bar.
BATTERY / PUSH
All smartphones drain battery fairly quickly, including the iPhone. But Android (SGS2, specifically), drains battery even quicker. On the SGS2, there's this Android OS Bug (Google AOS Bug), which can take off out of nowhere, and drain your battery within half a day without you even touch the phone. But it has been fixed now with Siyahkernal 1.8. But even then, the SGS2 does eat much more battery than an iPhone. One big reason I believe is due to how each phone (or app, actually) manages data. With Android, you have Background Data and Sync to transmit data in the background. But the problem is app developers don't need to follow this API. They can write any app the way they want. Some may keep transmitting data in the background with you knowing unless you use Droidfirewall to block it. With iPhone, we have PUSH notification, which every app follows for transmitting data in the background. I have only now come to really appreciate it. Although for some reason, PUSH email chews a lot more battery out of the iPhone (for Android too) compared to the regular PUSH notification. But the way PUSH is implemented on the iPhone, it IS superior. Android users, due to the battery drainage, have become paranoid about their data toggles. Everything must be toggled off (data/wifi/etc.) when the screen goes off (using Juice Defender or the like). So you are missing out being able to get real-time messages while out and about. With the iPhone, even with PUSH notification on 3G you hardly notice any battery drain when idle and screen off. This is a big plus for Apple. The iPhone has VERY LOW consumption when idle even with PUSH/3G/WIFI all turned on. The SGS2 has a constent ~1.5%/hr drain even when everything is turned off. But of course, if you are on a naked ROM with absolutely no other apps installed, the standby is somewhat better. That's why I think the fact that app developers can program any way they want is not always a good idea. Once you install some apps that do things in the background, your idle battery drain increases.
HARDWARE BUTTONS
Why, Apple, why only one button?? I really like the SGS2 with back and especially the menu buttons. All settings can be accessed in the app instead of going through "settings". Maybe because I'm used to PC's. I still don't like having only one mouse button on a MAC. Having BACK button makes multitasking that much easier. Although the iPhone home button can be assigned different tasks (double click / single click, using Activator), the way SGS2 implements buttons is much better. That being said, I don't like the other variants of Android phones with 4 to 5 buttons. If the function can be consolidated, I'd like that better (i.e. Menu + long pressed = Search).
TV OUT + BLUETOOTH MOUTH/KEYBOARD
If you have a SGS2, you have a fully functional computer in your living room. With the HML cable and bluetooth keyboard/mouse, you can surf the web, watch movies, and do just about everything else on your HDTV. With a BT mouse you can actually have a cursor on your screen (only a BT keyboard works on the iPhone). Although the control is not perfect, but it is certainly usable. Note, the videos (or Youtube videos) are in HD when you watch it on the big screen via SGS2. I am very very impressed. The only downside is that "sometimes" the phone drains the battery instead of getting charged. This goes the same with using SatNav apps while on car charger. The kernel has a 650mA limit on charging while using GPS and a bright screen, the usage might go over 650mA, this might explain why. With Siyahkernel and an inid.d script, you can change the charging limit to 1000mA, but it makes no difference for me. But my theory is that the battery charges slower when the phone temperature is higher in order to protect the battery. Becuase when it's nice and cool, the phone does get charged even when using GPS.
PHONE / MSG APPS
Android comes with a pretty good set of apps by default. The phone app, for instance, I cannot live without being able to search a contact by T9. (i.e. find Richard by typing 7424). With the iPhone, you need to go to Contacts and search by scrolling, which is very inconvenient. But with the jailbroken app iSmartDialer, it solves the issue. The Message app is about the same for both phones. But with the jailbroken app Tlert, or iRealSMS or etc, the experience is even better. You can set up a gesture to bring up the non-intrusive messaging box to type and send. But in general, the Android has a much better notification delivery system through the drop down menu (which has the toggles too). iPhone has SBSettings for the toggles but it doesn't looks as nice. Notification-wise, the iPhone is very intrusive. Without the special SMS jailbroken apps above, when an SMS comes in, you either HAVE TO reply to it, or you have to dismiss it (and possibly forget about it). The Android notification drop down stores all the notifications very nicely.
LOCKSCREEN
iPhone + LockInfo = great. But with Android + JKAY V11, although we don't get notifications right in the lock screen, we can have different ways of launching apps quickly. With Android you can kinda get lockscreen notifications through widgets and WidgetLocker.
BROWSER
Coming from a Nokia N85/N86, the iPhone stock browser is a big upgrade. Although there's no flash support, most sites are formatted quite well on the iPhone. But going from iOS to Android, it is at least 10 times better. Even the stock browser loads pages really fast. When you scroll up and down through a very long page you no longer see the "squares" (where page is not loaded properly). I use both the Dolphin HD for full webpages and Opera Mobile for everyday use. The Opera Mobile is REALLY FAST. And Flash support is just great. You finally get the real desktop browsing experience that you cannot find on an iPhone. I don't like the idea of Apple restricting the way developers write their browsers. Every browser on the AppStore simply runs the default iOS browser as its base and add visual tweaks to it. This is true even for the iPhone version of Skyfire. Back in the Symbian days, the Skyfire is truely revolutionary (for the Nokia phones) where contents are compressed on the server side and streamed to the phone. However, Skyfire is a little too slow waiting either for the webpage or the video. The Android browser is so much so much faster. And tabbed browsing interface is good on both phones.
CAMERA
SGS2 camera beats the crap out of an iPhone 4 camera. It is true that the iPhone 4 can take a pretty decent photo when you are "absolutely still". SGS2 camera is simply better with more options. The night mode actually takes very good pictures even without flash. The iPhone 4, if you move at all during the picture taking, the photo becomes blurred. The iPhone camera is only good under very well lit condition and that you're absolutely still.
SYNCING
With SGS2, you can forget about iTunes. If you have a picture, drag it in because your phone shows up as a USB drive. If you have music, pictures, or whatever, create your own folder, drag them into anywhere you want. The iPhone depends on iTunes too much. Although with PWNTunes you can make the iPhone into a USB drive and drag music in there. But everytime you drag something new in there, the scanning for the new content takes a while. Also, SGS2 is truely integrated with Google services. I keep a copy of my Contacts on the Gmail server and that's all I need. The iPhone with Gmail exchange server set up, it can do the same, but the battery drain does apply for the iPhone (i.e. battery drain with exchange email described previously).
MULTIMEDIA
SGS2 can play all kinds of file formats, which pretty much eliminates the need for a computer. The iPhone requires VLC player or alike. It does work, but for one, you cannot organize your files by folders.
VOIP
SGS2 has a fairly sufficient VOIP client built in. And you can get a modded phone app to do call recording. This is not as easy on the iPhone. I use Acrobits as my VOIP client on the iPhone and I can only do call recording on VOIP calls but not regular GSM calls. The VOIP incoming calls rely on PUSH notification, which is a bit inconvenient because once you get the notification, you have to consider the delay of opening the respective VOIP app to properly receive the call. By the time everything is opened, the caller might've given up. On Android, the client itself is constantly listening for incoming calls at the cost of battery. But it does responds like the regular calls.
GPS
The actual GPS performance when a signal is locked is pretty much identical for both phones practically. However, when you depend on AGPS for a triangulation, the iPhone works much faster and accurately. For instance, the Camera geotagging works more reliably with the iPhone because it will record your location nearest to the cell tower you are connected to. But with Android, many apps apparently do not use this information and try to wait for a full GPS signal. The result is, if you take a picture, the location recorded can be way off.
ACCESSORIES
When I went to Best Buy / Future Shop to find a car holder for my beloved SGS2, I was totally pissed by the fact that every (+95%) accessories in the store are for the iPhone!!?? Ebay is probably the only other good place to look for accessories. The good thing is that the iPhone headphone with mic and control does work on the SGS2. Note the microphone jack pins changed from the Galaxy S to the S2. S2 follows the iPhone (i.e. headphone works, mic works, call button works, but not the volume buttons). For the Galaxy S, two of the pins are reversed like the Nokia phones. So I'm glad that SGS2 is more "future-proof" in this regard. At least it accepts iPhone headphones (which is the trend??)
WARRANTY
I haven't had to deal with this yet for my SGS2. But when my iPhone broke the last time (home button stopped working), I just unjailbreak it (new flash) and took it to the nearest Apple Store (not the one I bought the phone from), and a brand new iPhone was given to me no questions asked (they only checked for any sign of water damage by looking at the special stickers in the headphone jack and charger port). But I am pretty sure the Samsund warranty cannot be as good as the Apple warranty. For one, I got the international version from Expansys.ca. So if it breaks, I guess I would need to buy a new one.
SELLING THE PHONE
The iPhone retains its value very very well. My iPhone 4, I bought at about $6xx, I sold for $540 after one year. My iPhone 3GS, which I bought locked, I sold it much higher than my buying price. I think the SGS2 is more like a car, once you drive it, the price is at least halved.
-----------------
I'm so tired of typing, I'll type some more some other time. Feel free to ask me questions though.
I also just switched from the iPhone to the S2. I have had a iPhone since THE iPhone so this was a big decision for me.
For the most part, there is no comparison. The S2 is so much better.
But...and there always is one isn't there?
I am now thinking about switching back. The one big hold up I have right now is sending videos via MMS. With the iPhone, ANY video I shot could be sent. No matter the size, the duration or the settings. I always shot video at the highest quality and could send them any time later.
Can't do that with the S2. 1000k limit. That sucks.
Bloody hell thats one long long story...Some parts i agree with you some i dont.
Apps yes hands down appstore is the best..If i was you i would not be posting about Installous and about the same for android cause its against the rules here my friend.
Display i have to say the S2 beats the retina anyday...Sorry i had iphone 4 and although i loved it for me the S2 is perfect you cant beat AMOLED..But again thats my opinion.
Jailbreaking and rooting...il be honest i find jailbreaking alot more easier and simple to do than rooting....Regarding downgrading to a previous version on the iphone that was pretty easy to but sometimes right painful...Just factory reset the phone and you got as it was out of the box.....Well i always managed to find a way just incase i messed up..
Anyway im happy with the S2 it does what i want and most of the apps i manage to live with...I cant see myself without it and only as time will come we will see more quality apps coming in the market..
Next upgrade for me..Galaxy S3...Be sure to find out that will be a world beater my friend...Nice post though very good reading
MuddyPaws1 said:
I also just switched from the iPhone to the S2. I have had a iPhone since THE iPhone so this was a big decision for me.
For the most part, there is no comparison. The S2 is so much better.
But...and there always is one isn't there?
I am now thinking about switching back. The one big hold up I have right now is sending videos via MMS. With the iPhone, ANY video I shot could be sent. No matter the size, the duration or the settings. I always shot video at the highest quality and could send them any time later.
Can't do that with the S2. 1000k limit. That sucks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the limit is usaully set by the network not the phone (its usaully 300kb for mms)
unless your talking about sharing online via youtube or facebook etc ???
there is no way you sent a hd video longer then 10-20 seconds via mms on the iphone
I too have been an iPhone owner since it's inception. I toyed around with an Android phone I bought from Craigslist earlier in the year just to see what all the fuss was about. It was an HTC something or another on AT&T. I REALLY wanted to like the Android OS, but I hated that phone. I had to charge it every 3-4 hours, even WITH Juice Defender running. I promptly sold it on Craigslist for more money than I paid for it, so that was a lose/win.
I went back to my iPhone 4, which was tried and true. Then one day, I dropped it on it's face, and spiderwebbed the screen. My entire life was on that phone. Thankfully, I have a no-questions asked warranty from Squaretrade, and they fixed it for $50. (Would have cost me $150 from local iRepairman). I needed a phone to use while it was on vacation, so I bought the Galaxy S brand new on Craigslist for $200 cash. Again, I decided to try to give the Android OS another chance. (I also have a Xoom, and make love to it every day. It KILLS my iPad, but thats another write.)
My iPhone4 came back fixed after a week, but I have yet to reactivate it. I continued to woo the Galaxy S.
When the Galaxy S2 was released. I had a dilemma. Wait for the iPhone 5 and hope it went to the 4.5" screen, (which would have been THE selling point for me), or buy the Samsung Galaxy S2. As soon as the iPhone4S was announced, it was decided. I went straight to the ATT store and upgraded to my Galaxy S2.
I have had it for a week now, and I can say, this IS a fantastic device, if not the best I have ever owned. While I can agree with most of the OP's remarks, the iPhone is a dummies phone. It is no-frills out-of-the-box, and it just works. To also mention, I had a PhoneSuit on it, which gave me 2-3 days battery life without a recharge. The PhoneSuit is amazing. I would only hope they would make one for the S2. The Android phones take some tweaking to get them to work like you want. I expect to see a flood of accessories before x-mas.
I will leave the verdict out on which brand I like better. I enjoyed the no-frills of the iPhone, but I love the Android phone too. It is a true nerds phone.
buxz777 said:
the limit is usaully set by the network not the phone (its usaully 300kb for mms)
unless your talking about sharing online via youtube or facebook etc ???
there is no way you sent a hd video longer then 10-20 seconds via mms on the iphone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it was for sure better resolution than the "record for mms" setting on the S2. And the iPhone did the conversion on the fly. So you could take the video in HD today, and a week from now send it to someone via MMS. You can't do that with the S2. You have to know you are going to send it via MMS and record it in that setting. Which means you can't also use that video to send to youtube or use on your computer because the quality is terrible.
MuddyPaws1 said:
I also just switched from the iPhone to the S2. I have had a iPhone since THE iPhone so this was a big decision for me.
For the most part, there is no comparison. The S2 is so much better.
But...and there always is one isn't there?
I am now thinking about switching back. The one big hold up I have right now is sending videos via MMS. With the iPhone, ANY video I shot could be sent. No matter the size, the duration or the settings. I always shot video at the highest quality and could send them any time later.
Can't do that with the S2. 1000k limit. That sucks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
think you should just switch over mate..you sound like an iphone boy through and through...be honest if the 4s was a tad bigger i would of gone for it as well but like i said im happy with what i got now
MuddyPaws1 said:
Well it was for sure better resolution than the "record for mms" setting on the S2. And the iPhone did the conversion on the fly. So you could take the video in HD today, and a week from now send it to someone via MMS. You can't do that with the S2. You have to know you are going to send it via MMS and record it in that setting. Which means you can't also use that video to send to youtube or use on your computer because the quality is terrible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iam sorry but through mms the limit is set by the network which is 300kb - 600kb
if i take a video and add it to my sms , the sms turns into a mms , it then converts the picture/video small enough if it can ie it wont be able to ahrink a 30min hd video into 300kb
i dont have to take the video in mms settings the sgs2 can convert things on the fly and does , what it doesnt do is make the impossible happen and shrink a 30mb file into 300kb
the iphone wouldnt either i have owned one (the iphone4) it cant magically make a video shrink from 30mb-300mb into 300kb , as you say the quality would be horrendous even on a small video taken in mms mode , so a longish clip shot in hd would look just as bad if not worse
the iphone works on exactly the same principal so i dont understand your post and your problem isnt even a problem?? try adding an 8mp photo to your sms , its over 1mb and hus to be shrunk , everytime i do this my sgs2 says converting .... then adds the picture
seriously mate the sgs2 does convert media but it cant do the impossible and make the alps fit in your car garage at home
King Shady said:
Cool story bro
... I didn't read it :/
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was JUST asking myself, did King Shady read this? I hope he tells us or I won't have a decent sleep tonight!
Exidrion said:
I was JUST asking myself, did King Shady read this? I hope he tells us or I won't have a decent sleep tonight!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad you'll sleep tight tonight. . Anyways I don't understand how some people can write this much for an online forum - where we don't even know each other!
i love reading these write up before buying a phone. thank you! I pretty much agree with you on most points.
buxz777 said:
iam sorry but through mms the limit is set by the network which is 300kb - 600kb
if i take a video and add it to my sms , the sms turns into a mms , it then converts the picture/video small enough if it can ie it wont be able to ahrink a 30min hd video into 300kb
i dont have to take the video in mms settings the sgs2 can convert things on the fly and does , what it doesnt do is make the impossible happen and shrink a 30mb file into 300kb
the iphone wouldnt either i have owned one (the iphone4) it cant magically make a video shrink from 30mb-300mb into 300kb , as you say the quality would be horrendous even on a small video taken in mms mode , so a longish clip shot in hd would look just as bad if not worse
the iphone works on exactly the same principal so i dont understand your post and your problem isnt even a problem?? try adding an 8mp photo to your sms , its over 1mb and hus to be shrunk , everytime i do this my sgs2 says converting .... then adds the picture
seriously mate the sgs2 does convert media but it cant do the impossible and make the alps fit in your car garage at home
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The S2 does not convert on the fly. I have a 20 second video I shot on the S2 and it will not send it...tried with many MMS apps and it always says file too big.
I have sent 3 minute videos from the iPhone and it just goes through.
King Shady said:
Cool story bro
... I didn't read it :/
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What a numpty! Most pointless post I've read on XDA to date. Go back to GameFAQs. (why am I even bothering?)
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Good write. I have decided to sell my Galaxy SII and get an iPhone 4S
Sgs2 is class for iphone 4s .Pleas go buy iphone and leave this forum wee hawe job.what kind of smartphone dhont hawe flasplayer?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
I like the luxury of having flash but never use. Not a good case anymore. Try watching a half hour video and tell me how much battery you have left...
Thank you dikai_yang and taking time writing and for posting.
As for many others commenting Ipone vs. SGS2 you seems to have good insight and have taken time to write in a educational way that many of us could learn a bit from.
If you later take your time writing about your experiences I would definitely read it.
blunted09 said:
I like the luxury of having flash but never use. Not a good case anymore. Try watching a half hour video and tell me how much battery you have left...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On Saturday I went to an artist Showcase (half wanted to go, half forced by the queen), and watched three quarters of the Auburn-Arkansas game. I would say Flash is pretty useful indeed.
Currykiev said:
What a numpty! Most pointless post I've read on XDA to date. Go back to GameFAQs. (why am I even bothering?)
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its funny because your post was just as useless as mine . We both troll!!
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
The only point I do not agree with or am knowledgeable enough to disagree is Rooting vs Jail breaking. Firstly root for me means being able to do anything with your device. Meaning the ability change roms, kernels and aspects of the system.
Now rooting in some phones do not or did not have such a privilege. Phones like droid 2, x10, droid x. These phones you could "root", meaning say the ability to use titanium backup or root explorer. In other words gain superuser access. What you could not do was change kernels, which is the heart of a rom.
So the point you are making about rooting on Android being easier isn't entirely true since some phones do not actually have "true root".
This may sound silly, and I tried to search.
Intuitively, I would venture that I could purchase a 32GB xoom with 3G and NOT have to have a data plan, but the Best Buy that has it on sale says data plan required...
Now I have two other tablets that are WiFi only, so I do not need a data plan, as I am looking for a device for playing videos in the car for my kids. Currently using the Archos 10.1 -which is a dog with horrible viewing angles, when I ran across the best Buy refurb units. (I don't count the Archos as one of my tablets, which are a Thrive and a GT 10.1 refurb -both of which are great)
My concern is that without a data plan, can I still upgrade the xoom to ICS since it states that it ships with Honeycomb?
Sorry for stupid questions, but I am really interested in this tablet and could care less about the weight -since that is the only real dig that I hear about on these guys. But I do not want to buy something that is at a low price point because Verizon has a lock on it somehow...and I do not want to find out the hard way.
THX
Mike
Yes, it is google experience device - easy ROM installs.
crashmw said:
This may sound silly, and I tried to search.
Intuitively, I would venture that I could purchase a 32GB xoom with 3G and NOT have to have a data plan, but the Best Buy that has it on sale says data plan required...
Now I have two other tablets that are WiFi only, so I do not need a data plan, as I am looking for a device for playing videos in the car for my kids. Currently using the Archos 10.1 -which is a dog with horrible viewing angles, when I ran across the best Buy refurb units. (I don't count the Archos as one of my tablets, which are a Thrive and a GT 10.1 refurb -both of which are great)
My concern is that without a data plan, can I still upgrade the xoom to ICS since it states that it ships with Honeycomb?
Sorry for stupid questions, but I am really interested in this tablet and could care less about the weight -since that is the only real dig that I hear about on these guys. But I do not want to buy something that is at a low price point because Verizon has a lock on it somehow...and I do not want to find out the hard way.
THX
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it's a little heaver than other tabs (it has a 3G modem in it, and it was one of the first tablets made) but it is probably more durable than the thin one. You don't notice the lil weight after a while. The price is lower because Moto does not make this version of Tab any more its obsolete, but in my opinion this is one of the BEST Tabs out there. Any Whooo ....
Why yes you can upgrade to ICS (a rooted ICS because Motorola has not released a Stock ICS version for the 3G-4G Xoom) You can use your 3G Xoom on Wifi, you don't need a data plan. The sales guy doesn't have a clue, all though getting a data plan from VZ is not that expensive. I think the lowest is $10 for 1GB or something like that. I pay $50 for 5GB of data, I am not on a contract and I can cut the service off at anytime. It really depends on your needs. I don't stream music or watch a lot of YouTube so I don't use my Data for that. I browse the web on WIFI, download small files using WIFI, and watch TV shows from Crackle or Hulu all using WIFI. You a can get a lot of use out of the WIFI. When I need to get a 1GB file to download I just switch to my 4G. I use my Data for huge file downloads, HotSpotting for my other Devices, etc ... and I can barely use up the 5GB. But that is me. All in all if you don't need Data then don't get it. If you change your mind later on, that option will always be there. Hope This Helps with your decision making.
As Always If This Was Helpful Hit The Thanks!