dunno how many of you saw this but i am very disappointed and pissed off about this little news if its true
http://pocketpc-live.com/top-stories/bad-news-for-pocketpc-sling-users.html
Not only have ATT 3G network crashed nurmious times but the fact that they bragging about having the fastest 3G nationwide is a bit of a over hyped statement if they cant simply handle data streaming of Sling Media but they could allow they crappy knock off *CV TV*
allthatinny said:
Not only have ATT 3G network crashed nurmious times but the fact that they bragging about having the fastest 3G nationwide is a bit of a over hyped statement if they cant simply handle data streaming of Sling Media but they could allow they crappy knock off *CV TV*
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Not that I'm a fan of the policy by any stretch, but I can't help but want to agree with them in targeting Sling.
It reminds me of when I was in college (around 2000) and the network admin was debating a ban on counterstrike communicating outside of the dorms because it took just 20 players to slow something as simple as web browsing to the point pages frequently timed out. Note, at the time Counterstrike's network code was a joke and the college didn't have a very good internet connection to the dorms anyway (the campus was on a different connection).
The comparison is easy to make, as Sling isn't well optimized at all. For network management, it uses Windows Media Video 9 (VC-1) to handle network transmissions, which (I'm told, I can't claim expert knowledge) is only good within local networks or a very small number of hops over the internet, otherwise it becomes confused and tends to fire more data than it should. There's also the issue of I-Frame intervals, which appear to be set rather low by default (meaning higher I-Frames). I-Frames take more data and cause higher bandwidth. Searching didn't turn up many positive comments about sling's video scaling (which obviously should be done if it's played on a screen small enough to fit in your pocket). I admit, this information comes from some quick googling, so it may possibly lack in accuracy, but it does hint that Sling isn't well suited to efficient use on a cellular data network.
I realize some people use Sling for home security cameras or possibly some other useful scenario other than watching TV, but let's be honest....if it's just about watching an episode of Grey's Anatomy on your phone while at work...then it's pretty lame. Obviously technology CAN support this, but only as long as it's a few people doing it. If the idea caught on, it would bring down any cellular network.
I admit, I'm not a Sling user, so perhaps I'm a little biased...
does that mean they've blocked sling's connection completely?
and i think it's b.s...we all paid the hefty fee for data plan so we should all be entitled to the 5GB or so soft cap. cut off the connection after the user has reached that limit! they can't just censor certain applications to help the network run more smoothly. they were supposed to provide a network that CAN sustain such traffic in the first place. If AT&T can't hold up to that much, they deserve to be and will be sued (unless of course they lower our data plan fees)
oh, and I think sling brought it upon themselves when they came out with the iphone app. i get the feeling AT&T only started this now because iphone users are feeling cheated ("the winmo users can watch sling, so why can't we?") this should teach iphone app developers a lesson! =p
Slingplayer is still working fine.
AT&T may just end up forbidding sling from working on their network in further software releases.
baboola said:
and i think it's b.s...we all paid the hefty fee for data plan so we should all be entitled to the 5GB or so soft cap. cut off the connection after the user has reached that limit! they can't just censor certain applications to help the network run more smoothly. they were supposed to provide a network that CAN sustain such traffic in the first place. If AT&T can't hold up to that much, they deserve to be and will be sued (unless of course they lower our data plan fees)
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I'm not really arguing here, I just wanted to point out that if you replace every instance of 'AT&T' with 'COMCAST' you will have the argument that was made by Comcast customers in 2007 about bittorrent traffic being blocked. Comcast backed down due to bad press, and a number of legal issues (primary reasons being that they didn't publicly admit to the censorship, and because their method of censorship was fraudulent...they were faking network packets, not just blocking them). Comcast didn't fully back down, but just adjusted their policy and tightened their methods of handling heavy customers. Note, this is a full sized ISP working over high speed cable, not a wireless provider that ALSO offers internet.
AT&T might back down, but I have the feeling this isn't going to draw enough ire to build the large public outcry that's necessary. I certainly doubt that they would lose any legal case regarding this. Even a legal case built around anti-competitive practices would fail since there's other methods to get video onto a phone via wireless.
Sling might stand to get some trouble since a lot of people surely bought into the equipment and iPhone app at the same time, and now won't get much use from either.
Of course, Sling may also consider suing AT&T if this becomes a protocol block...They actually stand a chance of winning that fight.
reason why i said they not up to par is due to the fact that technology is changing, we are streaming almost everything over networks now, its like att said "Your world connected"
movies is being streamed over networks, communcations, video feeds, audio, data, near everything and another big factor, is HD (Hi-Def) everyone wants HD cuz the quality is awesome but some companies complain about heavy usage when in reality streaming a full size HD movie is not easy, can we be blame cuz they network cant handle the traffic, NO! not like we not paying our monthly service fees but putting softcaps and all these stupid things is just plan out stupid and its stopping use from evolving.
hell i had my ISP put a cap on me once for hosting a game server from my PS3 console, i was hosting a TF2 server i think, and they told me that i cant do it cuz its agaisnt policy yet the feature is in video games to use and to allow us to play, what if every ISP in the world were to enforce that rule then all servers will have to be run by software companies and we will be changed for it to maintain they servers.
i personally think att NEEDS to upgrade they network to meet with todays demand, cuz when Hi Def really settles, what will happen then, ATT will change they policy just to hold us back.
allthatinny said:
Movies is being streamed over networks, communcations, video feeds, audio, data, near everything and another big factor, is HD (Hi-Def) everyone wants HD cuz the quality is awesome but some companies complain about heavy usage when in reality streaming a full size HD movie is not easy, can we be blame cuz they network cant handle the traffic, NO! not like we not paying our monthly service fees but putting softcaps and all these stupid things is just plan out stupid and its stopping use from evolving.
...
i personally think att NEEDS to upgrade they network to meet with todays demand, cuz when Hi Def really settles, what will happen then, ATT will change they policy just to hold us back.
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I agree completely with your end-point that AT&T needs to upgrade and they are under-performing given the price point we pay.
However, I think your reasoning is completely wrong. HD Video? If we had any phones that could REALLY handle HD video, it might be a different subject. You're talking about 2 things that are kind of absurd at this point, streaming HD over cellular wireless and actually being able to identify a measurable difference on a phone once you have it. Wired ISPs are having enough trouble with streaming HD, a wireless provider can't compete with them. Keep in mind, HSDPA's (not 3g) highest realistic transmission speed is only barely capable of meeting the lowest acceptable speed for streaming 720i video. Please also remember, the NEW cool toys for home theater is hardware capable of short range streaming of HD, you're talking about very long range. Second, what phone is going to display HD video substantially better than decently encoded standard def video? On screens this small, HD video is a waste of time. Once TV-Out is adopted and displays something other than a pure screen copy (which automatically displays only the phone's resolution), then the subject can be brought back up. Keep in mind, I'm talking about current phones, not those that are coming eventually with the Tegra chip or other future implementations. In a year, the technological realities could shift enough that a very small percentage of users could be talking about this stuff, but today it's not a part of the real use case scenarios.
In my opinion, here are the real reasons this news should be bad and we need to push AT&T to improve their network:
a) The point of forcing iPhone users to get a data plan was to fund improvement of the 3g and hsdpa capabilities of their network. We've suffered through the poor performance caused by the iPhone, now it's time to see the network improve beyond the point it was at BEFORE the evil phone came.
b) The solution to the problem should never be banning a protocol/service/feature. Raising cost or putting limits on it would be reasonable, but completely blocking something is absurd and unreasonable.
c) I know I had another reason, but I forgot it while typing....
speed_pour said:
I agree completely with your end-point that AT&T needs to upgrade and they are under-performing given the price point we pay.
However, I think your reasoning is completely wrong. HD Video? If we had any phones that could REALLY handle HD video, it might be a different subject. You're talking about 2 things that are kind of absurd at this point, streaming HD over cellular wireless and actually being able to identify a measurable difference on a phone once you have it. Wired ISPs are having enough trouble with streaming HD, a wireless provider can't compete with them. Keep in mind, HSDPA's (not 3g) highest realistic transmission speed is only barely capable of meeting the lowest acceptable speed for streaming 720i video. Please also remember, the NEW cool toys for home theater is hardware capable of short range streaming of HD, you're talking about very long range. Second, what phone is going to display HD video substantially better than decently encoded standard def video? On screens this small, HD video is a waste of time. Once TV-Out is adopted and displays something other than a pure screen copy (which automatically displays only the phone's resolution), then the subject can be brought back up. Keep in mind, I'm talking about current phones, not those that are coming eventually with the Tegra chip or other future implementations. In a year, the technological realities could shift enough that a very small percentage of users could be talking about this stuff, but today it's not a part of the real use case scenarios.
In my opinion, here are the real reasons this news should be bad and we need to push AT&T to improve their network:
a) The point of forcing iPhone users to get a data plan was to fund improvement of the 3g and hsdpa capabilities of their network. We've suffered through the poor performance caused by the iPhone, now it's time to see the network improve beyond the point it was at BEFORE the evil phone came.
b) The solution to the problem should never be banning a protocol/service/feature. Raising cost or putting limits on it would be reasonable, but completely blocking something is absurd and unreasonable.
c) I know I had another reason, but I forgot it while typing....
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ok lets take HD out of the pic even though its not to far away, but lets say a netflix video streaming software for windows mobile.
if i pay my monthly service charge on att end and netflix, they put a 5G softcap, one movie alone will eat up alot of that 5GB of bandwidth
i moved from the iphone and i could tell u that iphone 3G has awesome streaming compatiblity there was this one site called PublicPost that had movies on there for free with limited about of user, got closed down due to legal reason but i use to be at work watching really hot movies at great audio and sound with no hiccup problem but the fact that att wanting to ban tv streaming is a bit over the edge
"Up to Par??" Never has been
I worked for Cingular right after AT&T bought them until the week they started rebranding their phones as AT&T.
Warning on my bias
As much as I appreciate their innovations as a company, like being the first company to offer simultaneous use of Voice & Data by way of 3G and having the most popular and innovative phone on their network... I was horribly dissappointed at a bunch of their choices.
-They transitioned too fast and incompletely. ie. They were still removing/upgrading old AT&T Wireless components on their towers as they began rolling out 3G in other areas.
-Many people I know, including myself, lost signal almost completely as they transitioned voice to higher frequencies (1900mHz) and WCDMA/3G to replace them on the lower freqs. (Lower frequencies, 850 & 900mHz, offer better penetration through solids like trees & buildings. T-mobile is still the only carrier I get 1-2 bars in my basement...underground). What a waste! Especially since there are already so many 3G phones overseas that only use the 2100mHz WCDMA.
-Infrastructure. Infrastructure. Infrastructure.
How does a telecommunication company not give itself the Infrastructure to support the demand that they knew the iPhone would bring.
I'm glad I'm not helping them deal with the nightmare they made for themselves. Someone would have to pay me to give up my Sprint TouchPro. Who, btw, had the first 3G ntwork and still has the fastest. I'm happy to see people leave Sprint to get an iPhone cause it makes the network even faster lol.
sc00basteve said:
I worked for Cingular right after AT&T bought them until the week they started rebranding their phones as AT&T.
Warning on my bias
As much as I appreciate their innovations as a company, like being the first company to offer simultaneous use of Voice & Data by way of 3G and having the most popular and innovative phone on their network... I was horribly dissappointed at a bunch of their choices.
-They transitioned too fast and incompletely. ie. They were still removing/upgrading old AT&T Wireless components on their towers as they began rolling out 3G in other areas.
-Many people I know, including myself, lost signal almost completely as they transitioned voice to higher frequencies (1900mHz) and WCDMA/3G to replace them on the lower freqs. (Lower frequencies, 850 & 900mHz, offer better penetration through solids like trees & buildings. T-mobile is still the only carrier I get 1-2 bars in my basement...underground). What a waste! Especially since there are already so many 3G phones overseas that only use the 2100mHz WCDMA.
-Infrastructure. Infrastructure. Infrastructure.
How does a telecommunication company not give itself the Infrastructure to support the demand that they knew the iPhone would bring.
I'm glad I'm not helping them deal with the nightmare they made for themselves. Someone would have to pay me to give up my Sprint TouchPro. Who, btw, had the first 3G ntwork and still has the fastest. I'm happy to see people leave Sprint to get an iPhone cause it makes the network even faster lol.
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What are you talking about? Really? You're wrong on a half a dozen counts.
AT&T bought absolutely nothing, in any part of their weird buyout ridden last 5 years. From Wikipedia: "Formerly a joint venture between SBC Communications and BellSouth, Cingular Wireless soon acquired the old AT&T Wireless; SBC later acquired the original AT&T and re-branded as "the new AT&T". Cingular became wholly-owned by the new AT&T in December 2006 as a result of AT&T's acquisition of BellSouth." The 3G rollout was already underway before anyone bought anything, I remember hearing about it when I signed up for AT&T Wireless in 2004. They didn't transition incompletely or anything, they've got the "world's fastest 3G network" running on a backbone barely fit for an MMORPG player.
T-Mobile is 1900 MHz ONLY, and uses 1700 MHz for 3G; you just get good signal in your basement because the tower is nearby.
Sounds like Sprint needs to pay you a little bit more to plug them like a salesman.
To the OP: Yes, AT&T sucks. I hate them for that too, blocking Sling because they know their network would crumble like a stack of cards if even 10% of us started seriously using our 3G.
sheik124 said:
To the OP: Yes, AT&T sucks. I hate them for that too, blocking Sling because they know their network would crumble like a stack of cards if even 10% of us started seriously using our 3G.
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Sorry, just asking for a bit of a quantification of this statement. It's true AT&T would flop and die like a fish out of water, but what carrier wouldn't?
In the interest of staying on topic, and reissuing my question more contextually; since Verizon is possibly going to gain sales rights to the iPhone, does anybody think that with a mass purchasing of the iPhone under Verizon that they may also suffer serious network degradation with regular uptake of the Sling app? Would they have a different response? Given Verizon's history, I think they would likely demand to filter appStore apps, which almost certainly includes the Sling app.
It's not that I disagree on the problems with AT&T, and I'm not trying to be an apologist for them (I swear, I really don't mean to be), but I see a lot of negative comments which seem to ignore that all of the other carriers are just as bad/incapable/inadequate/incompetent. Normally I ignore all of it, but today seems to have brought it out of me.
gee i think they should work on the cell sites handling handoffs' before they go worrying about much else. Constantly losing calls/data when i hit a new cell site outside of boston. Its getting old.
At&t sucks
same thing happens to me when am entering and leaving staten island, happens on both the ferry and on the bridge
Not sure if those who are interested have seen this, but over the in the Kaiser forum the same subject was brought up (albeit, more relevant subject line). A possible work-around is described for interested parties (assuming AT&T actually does any filtering on the protocol). Here's the thread: Slingbox users beware...At&t limiting 3g access
speed_pour said:
Sorry, just asking for a bit of a quantification of this statement. It's true AT&T would flop and die like a fish out of water, but what carrier wouldn't?
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Umm. Definitely Sprint.
I'm on a Sprint SERO plan and they have never complained about my data usage. That probably why they haven't said anything, but seriously. I will repeat: I'm happy to see people leave Sprint to get an iPhone cause it makes the network even faster lol.
I did 2.7+ gigs of data last month and 6+ the month before that.
Last night I tested this:
'nuff said
sc00basteve said:
Umm. Definitely Sprint.
I'm on a Sprint SERO plan and they have never complained about my data usage. That probably why they haven't said anything, but seriously. I will repeat: I'm happy to see people leave Sprint to get an iPhone cause it makes the network even faster lol.
I did 2.7+ gigs of data last month and 6+ the month before that.
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Somehow I suspect you live on the East Coast. My whole time growing up and living on the West Coast, there's only a few people I know that didn't complain about Sprint. Actually, Sprint is the only carrier that people around here have a serious problem with. I worked for a company for a short time that had a lot of people travel from Tennessee to here and each of them used Sprint, they all said that they had the best experience with it until they came here, then it was nearly unusable. Obviously, it's just like radio versions, quality depends entirely on the circumstances.
I do have to say, several months ago I drove from southern California most of the way up the west coast, downloaded a few movies and tv shows, then did the same on the trip back 2 weeks later. While I didn't count total amounts, the video alone had to be at least 4 gigs. That didn't count any of my data usage with web browsing or any time between trips. I also only had 3 dropped signals in more than 1000 miles (once in the desert, once at shasta mountain, and once in a mountain pass in southern oregon). On this coast, in my experience, AT&T is pretty rock solid and Sprint is difficult to use. Not sure about Verizon or TMo though, not many friends on either of those.
That makes sense
It does make sense. I was out in San Francisco a couple of years ago, when I had ATT, and it was really solid.
But Sprint users, fear not. I was talking to a teir2 tech a couple month ago and he was part of the citywide testing for WiMax in Seattle. I think it was Seattle, at least. Anyway, Baltimore rollout is functional and rollout + testing in many cities is an awesome sign.
ahhahaha sprint. Yea go for sprint, if you want a network that will be bought up soon. I cannot tell you how many sprint people have been laid off in the past 5 months. (cell techs+) They are almost ready to go belly up. And the 4g is a joke.
First they plopped all the 4g's on teh ground and started hooking them up. Then they went out and pulled them all and now they are beginning to put them back.. (my guess is so whoever buys them will see the numbers)
bottom line.... i wouldnt touch sprint w/ a 10foot pole right now.
At least MetroPCS is transparent. They are basically building verizon's new sites. hahahah Cdma2000 and 4g ready. lolz
well this is a bit off topic but here we go again, att practically embrass themself at the apple WWDC, no MMS support of iPhone, NO TETHERING,
and if ur a existing att customer and want to buy the new iphone u gotta pay any where from 299-399 with a new 2 YEAR CONTRACT, pfft not going through that again if i cant even stream sling media over they network, att can kiss my a$$
allthatinny said:
well this is a bit off topic but here we go again, att practically embrass themself at the apple WWDC, no MMS support of iPhone, NO TETHERING,
and if ur a existing att customer and want to buy the new iphone u gotta pay any where from 299-399 with a new 2 YEAR CONTRACT, pfft not going through that again if i cant even stream sling media over they network, att can kiss my a$$
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I kinda hoped to be done with this thread, but I was already reading the WWDC coverage and got a huge laugh and the coverage (the fact that they described the entire hall laughing at the tethering support issue). In point of fact, Apple is lying...a LOT.
MMS support is missing because Apple implemented the MMS protocol differently than virtually every handset maker in the world. The "upgrades" aren't performance upgrades, they are functional upgrades to support the alternate implementation. The story I heard from one of the techs is that AT&T wasn't made aware of this until just a few months ago and they weren't given time to implement software upgrades.
Tethering support has nothing to do with performance (though that's obviously going to be an issue). It's all about Apple and AT&T STILL discussing the pricing for the tethering plan. My theory, worth little more than a grain of salt, is that apple is trying to take a cut of tethering on top of the profits they already get from each plan...why else does apple need to negotiate when at&t already has set prices for this feature.
As to pricing...I don't see why everybody is throwing a huge fuss...Does every iphone user think they are god's children? If they want to upgrade their phone every year, they need to either be ready to pay a high price or have an upgrade coming. If Apple expects people to do this, then they should either create an trade-in plan, or some special mail-in rebate offer to existing iphone owners. That's not a carrier's job, not when the handsets are already subsidized so heavily.
The hardware upgrades for apple are laughable anyway. The new handset only comes with an upgraded camera and they finally flipped the switch on video recording that every jailbroken phone already had. Apple is just soaking their fanboys for money. I'm expecting 3G owners are going to see a tutorial in 2 months on how to replace the existing camera with the 3 megapixel one from the 3gs. Combined with jailbreaking, 3g owners will be able to have a 3gs at the cost of throwing out their warranty and buying a $30 replacement camera component.
Related
http://www.geardiary.com/2007/06/17/unboxing-the-htc-mogul-sprints-new-wm6-phone/
this phone looks promising.. hopefully it isnt a flop like the 6700
already there....
Telus P4000
http://www.telusmobilite.com/qc/pcs/handset_htc_p4000.shtml
Sprint Mogul
http://nextelonline.nextel.com/NASApp/onlinestore/en/Action/DisplayPhones?phoneSKU=PPC6800SP
Actually it came today.. UPS just dropped mine off from Sprint.
OK I have 7 days to get out of my TMO contract to go with the cheaper service of sprint.
Bugout...how it the phone (I have a Wizard)? The main confusing I'm having is Sprint lists it as having GPS-A and no where can I see that in any specs (nor can I find the claim it has ATI graphics). Any validity, first thoughts.
There's reviews all over the place.. but here are my first thoughts coming from 2 weeks with an 8525 (which im returning back to AT&T) and a 700p..
The keyboard has a very nice "spring" to it, unlike the hermes, which requires more of a push/pull to open and close it.
I dont know the exact number, but it's about 10mm thinner then a hermes, but it feels much thinner and lighter then a hermes.
I'm still wet behind the ears with WM (long time palm user and the 700p nightmare had me jump ship). All the applications are very snappy. There is no button in the comm manager to turn on/off wi-fi, there is however a hard switch on the lower left to turn it on and off. SPB pocket plus will turn wifi off/on via an the screen button.
It came with 2 Y adapters in the box. 1 for a/c charge and usb sync, and another for charge and a 3.5mm standard headset jack.
The GPSA is only for location based services, it does not have a standard usable GPS in it. As far as I know it also does not have ATI graphics.
I'm still having usability issues because there seems to be steep learning curve coming from palm i.e. no contact list in the sms app, very annoying or maybe I haven't found it yet, or I just have to retrain my brain to send SMS from contacts instead of the actual SMS app.
Another very annoying this is that there is no battery meter on the top bar. I have to do my research to figure out how to turn that on.
My Mogul should arrive today. I ordered it because I wanted a reliable 3G phone. I've been using an 8525 with Cingy. The 3G internet works great. However, voice call quality with Cingy in Salt Lake City sucks. Lots of dropped and garbled calls. Also, battery life is about 10 hours.
It's rumored that The Mogul has better battery life. Sprint also offers some very nice data packages and 3G in many more places than even Verizon.
I cannot wait to give the phone a try.
Here's the link to the ATI claim http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7748
I think Dailytech is just confused because the chipset uses it (it also allows for an 8mp camera which would be nice )
I know GPSA is location based only but supposedly Sprint is offering their Navigator program with it to work. GPSA does talk to GPS satellites...just with a network and probably something proprietary.
Does anyone know how hackable the Mogul will be. I don't want it on a different network, just maybe a different ROM or something. I've always seen the issues with unlocking CDMA phone but the Apaches seemed to unlock sooo.
Sorry for all the questions...I just now have 6 days to switch (which I'm going to as sprint offered to take my $70 monthly bill to $30). And sprints basic call centers dont understand some of my spec questions.
if alltell gets this by december ill get it thru them because i was thinking of switching to alltell around that time..
My gfs doing that same with Altell...however...someone just reminded me of this http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/07/feds-impose-partial-ban-on-qualcomm-powered-phones/ Qualcomm phones now have a partial ban on them (shipping into the US) which could lead to supply issues.
On a sidenote either one of the sprint people what to do the $25 refer a friends. I sign up, claim you (give them your cell) refered me...you make $25...i make $25....PM me if your in!
hmm well that ban sucks ass.. if sprint wasnt such a POS id switch over to them..
yes, sprint does offer a navigation service, but it's $9.99/mo.
The internal GPS on this thing is very accurate. I signed up for the free trial of "Sprint family locator" and it had me pegged exactly where I was. Locating my wifes phone (a treo 650 which is in the same house was 2 miles off).
I don't think anyone knows how hackable the mogul is just yet.. That's what we get for "bleeding edge"
can someone post the sprint today theme
I'm still still new to this, but if you can point me to a link that shows me how/where it is, I'd be happy to.
edit found it:
http://rapidshare.com/files/38364040/Sprint_Default.tsk.html
my friend wants to trade his iphone 3g 16gb for my tp. both of ours have been used within the week... should i? and even if i do, are the prices equal? i dont know much about the iphone prices :/ can anyone help please? thanks.
auriken said:
my friend wants to trade his iphone 3g 16gb for my tp. both of ours have been used within the week... should i? and even if i do, are the prices equal? i dont know much about the iphone prices :/ can anyone help please? thanks.
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In my opinion with HTC releasing the Touch HD just around the corner, the TP will be outdated and the prices will take a hit. As for the 3g iPhone, it is still the phone to beat especially with all the apps that are being released for it lately plus I dont see a price drop coming within the near future on the blackmarket for these devices since the only other way to get one is thru ATT and a ridiculous plan and 2 year contract.
My $0.02
Cheers!
and the fact that the iphone is overhyped.
meaning, even the stores had plenty of them in storage but they where only to be sold a few on a day (creating a hype).
if you write a problems over the iphone, most of the time you get sabered down by iphone lovers.
iphone is not sold for tweakers.
ppc is tweakable, and you can write down youre problem if you find any.
not that i am trying to put the iphone in corner.
i don`t own one.
and i like the looks, and how fast it works (tried it in the store).
i guess you have to find out yourself.
maybe try to swap with youre friend for a week for testing.
ooh and did i mentioned that i like it that wm isent the only phone OS on the market.
i welcome the idea of google`s android operating system.
thank you guys for your input. anyone else?
The the iPhone 3G is approx $6-700, the TP is about $900.
But over a 2 year contract, the iPhone will probably retain its value better than the TP (namely because Apple releases only one phone a year, while HTC is continually making better and better products).
Of course it also depends on if both are unlocked; if you're forced to use AT&T (or if you really need US 3G) then there's no clear winner since you'll end up paying a lot more for the plan itself.
Otherwise I would say the biggest consideration is what kind of smartphone user you think you are. If you have no problems with using iTunes and Apple's walled garden called the App Store, then the iPhone is a fair choice. But if you're a DIYer and have no problems copying files and making some registry edits, you'll find WinMo much more empowering.
Of course you should definitely also consider your warranty, insurance and replacement options. What will you have to do to get the 3G replaced versus the TP? Etc.
If you want a no-nonsense opinion, I'd say stick with the TP. We're only getting started here at XDA, and the TP has nowhere to go but up in terms of its software. The bulk of what the iPhone has to offer is already on the table, and will probably slow down once developers jump ship to Android. But that's only my opinion
i own both, what do u basically use your phone for? for a normal phone, iphone is great, top of everything, and for multimedia, it's still the phone to beat. and like said, it's fast, and very fast, Apple doesn't need to tell how it works, but watching movie is very pleasant compared to TP, despite the latter has more resolution to the screen.
anyway, if you really need a WM device, stay with TP, and like said before, it's tweakable, whereas the most you can do with iphone is jailbreaking to let other cracked 3rd party applications and games to be applicable on your iphone. not a straight through way to install anything you want.
I hate IPhone, apart from a massive screen & some eye-catching animation it has nothing else to offer and cummon, if u talk about speed, I have tried both IPhone & TP over 16mg Wifi and they both load a page almost within in same time.
How can you even call IPhone a smart phone??? It doesn't even have the basic functionality that a mediocre s60 has...
Hi,
been looking at the FUZE (ATT version of Raphael) and the touch Pro ( Verizon Version)
I currently have a contract with Verizon, and at the moment dont want to change it other than a phone upgrade and data plan, but the device...
lacks 128 MB of RAM (128 over ATT's 256) and doesnt have the G Sensor?!
This is rediculous, but I am pulled put over a barrel because I need The HTC Touch pro, Verizon doesn't use SIM cards either so I cant buy a fuze unlocked and use it under Verizon either. I'll pay the 15$ monthly but I honestly want my g-sensor and RAM
Your Thoughts? Anyone know if they offer an alternative with a SIM Card (Like their World Blackberries)
Laos
Verizon's does have a gsensor and a better keyboard layout then the fuse.
But no tv, lower ram, plus verizon is expensive etc..
Im only with verizon because i get 20% off my bill and i got my TP for free.
You also have to consider coverage. Do you know anyone that has ATT around you? You obviously know how well VZW is by you.
For me, both VZW and ATT are good around my house, but VZW sucks where I work and I get a full signal with ATT. Sprint is also good at both places.
As someone said, both models have the g-sensor. I'm not sure how much the lower RAM actually affects the device, so I can't speak for that either.
Also consider 3G. VZW has much more EVDO coverage than ATT's HSDPA, so check that out in your area too.
I've been very happy with ATT and the coverage around me. If you go ATT I would definitely flash a newer radio. The stock ATT Fuze radio was horrible for me.
YL Groper said:
Verizon's does have a gsensor and a better keyboard layout then the fuse.
But no tv, lower ram, plus verizon is expensive etc..
Im only with verizon because i get 20% off my bill and i got my TP for free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well thats confusing as hell, some say there IS a G sensor and some dont, but Honestly i can life with 128MB of RAM, I want my g sensor
I will stick with verizon, but i got one more question
the device has an internal GPS I can use for say, tomtom rather VZW Navigator, right?
Laos101 said:
Well thats confusing as hell, some say there IS a G sensor and some dont, but Honestly i can life with 128MB of RAM, I want my g sensor
I will stick with verizon, but i got one more question
the device has an internal GPS I can use for say, tomtom rather VZW Navigator, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, im not sure who is saying that there isnt a gsensor. Im on my third TP and all of them have had one. Verizon packs their stock roll with teeter and opera that switches from portrait to landscape. It DOES have it.
And yes, it has GPS. I have google maps, live search, vz nav, smart phone tracker.....all of that on my TP. you should check out scroslers rom for it. Awesome!
As far as the RAM goes, I'm wondering how long until WinMo gets Microsofts ReadyBoost program availible. For those that don't know this program it allows you to use a flash drive (aka SDCard) as RAM.
Dane Austin said:
As far as the RAM goes, I'm wondering how long until WinMo gets Microsofts ReadyBoost program availible. For those that don't know this program it allows you to use a flash drive (aka SDCard) as RAM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it could be a while, WinMo devices are notorious for having much slower card readers than regular Laptops and PCs, and to make it worse, the largest Micro SD Card (32 GB) is only at class 2, MUCH too slow for decent usage. However the 8 and 16 GB should be at Class 6. Which is okay. Still its best to wait until they solve the speed issue and have super fast 16 GB Cards so the card can still be used for ready boost with enough spare space for the high RAM programs themselves
Also, ready boost says ONE thing, EMULATIONS!!!!!!!
dont say silly stuff like it doesnt have a g sensor or ram. its the same hardware. it has a cdma antenna of course but it would be more cost efficient to leave the same internals rather than having a separate production line.
The Jack of Clubs said:
dont say silly stuff like it doesnt have a g sensor or ram. its the same hardware. it has a cdma antenna of course but it would be more cost efficient to leave the same internals rather than having a separate production line.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You dont know what you are talking about. The phone has less ram.....Even the form factor of the case is different. Almost every carrier has a different version with different hardware. Some have an FM radio chip, euro versions have a front facing camera, some are more rounded at the corners, the verizon TP is square. the battery plates are different etc...
The Verizon Touch Pro is bigger then the Fuze, but has TF3D Landscape and the Send/End buttons are illuminated green and red, respectively.
The Verizon TP also locks out the GPS chip to external software like TomTom (it works for some, doesn't work for most).
The Verizon TP does have less RAM, but it does have a G-Sensor. My brother works for Verizon and verified this by playing Teeter on it.
HTC's main reason for popularity with carriers is because they are willing to tailor their devices to a carriers exact specifications. Such as losing the FM Radio, front camera, RAM, etc...
Just like already stated, I would judge it by the network coverage in your area. With me living so close to Philadelphia, I have 3G coverage available from every carrier, so I don't have to worry about signal.
Which carrier?- Which ROM rather...
Greetings all, - hope this is posted in the right location, thought I would throw in my two cents regarding the question of 'which network'.
I just obtained a Fuze through AT&T- after 6 days of playing with it, I was extremely dissatisfied with the fact that my Tilt, through the magic of Kaiser Tweak can DL via HSDPA, (in some areas) but this is not available with the AT&T ROM installed on the Fuze.
I was too nervous to try flashing and potentially bricking the phone, so I sent the thing back for a refund. I would much rather drop a bit more cash for the international, unlocked version of the same device- without the sluggish, weighty crap programs and the bottleneck of a ROM AT&T has put on the Fuze.
Through the info posted here, I was able to drop the bloat, as I did on my Tilt- It was actually on a post here that I saw that AT&T had done this purposefully, to limit bandwidth access due to a huge influx of Iphones on the network. This may be hearsay, and I may be toatally wrong in my assesment, but the symptoms were definitely there. I could not even sit and browse the web in my house, while with my Tilt this has never been a problem.
Side note: When I returned the thing to a local AT&T store, the mouth breathing clerk stared blankly through me as I explained my dissatisfaction with the connectivity, and asked his opinion, as I noted he himself had a Fuze. He had no idea what I was talking about. To quote him: "That's way beyond my level." I chose not to pursue the issue further, though it seems that just through my reading here, I have learned more about this than the aforementioned AT&T employee.
My carrier decision was based purely on it's world wide coverage ability. I chose ATT.
In the past 2 months I traveled extensively through SE Asia, N. Africa and Europe. Having ATT has allowed me to keep intouch with work, friends and family.
Hope this helps
At&t Fuze all the way, i got it, it has more ram, it doesnt have all the Verizon restrictions on it, i like the angles back on the Fuze vs the plain verizon design
jd885 said:
At&t Fuze all the way, i got it, it has more ram, it doesnt have all the Verizon restrictions on it, i like the angles back on the Fuze vs the plain verizon design
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are the restrictions aside from memory?
In my opinion
GSM > CDMA
If you go with ATT, you will have a GSM phone which, if nothing else, will have more resale value when you upgrade. GSM is the technology with a future, many manufacturers do not even make CDMA phones any more.
While the ramifications of this may never affect you directly, (i.e. moving to another country but using your phone with another carrier, or selling you phone to any GSM user worldwide) you might as well leave the option open.
my $0.02
buuuuut
despite that verizon took away memory, i still have yet to use so much that it would matter (i have att fuze)
at work and at home i only have 3g in certain spots of the house and office. when i do have it, it is hit or miss really. the only places i seem to get plenty of 3g is in big ol shopping areas.
others with verizon i know seem to have 3g every frickin where. streaming youtube, music, most of the time buffering-free. i am jealous thats for sure.
buuuuut
when i do have 3g it is really fast. faster than verizon. that is, if i can get it.
and i have tried several radios but i basically still have to hunt for that weak ass signal
I haven't found any discussion about using Android devices without a phone carrier at all, is this possible or must the device be activaed on a carrier before it does anything at all? What I'm thinking of is basically the Android equivalent of the iPod Touch. It's still a smart device, still does wifi, still runs all those apps, but there's no phone service at all. More than blocking data plan that I have seen discussed, I want no voice plan either.
I know that some people think it's stupid enough to want a smartphone with no data plan on a carrier, you guys will probably think I'm retarded to want to leave out voice service as well. Well, I'd use it as a phone if I didn't have to pay for data plans and stick to wifi, as those other discussions want to do, but now that the monthly fee is absolutely mandatory on my carrier, well, I'm just not willing to pay that much. I've thought about buying an iPod Touch to compliment my dumb phone, but I'd rather have the Android equivalent so I'm not limited to apps approved by Apple.
I suppose some might say the Phillips GoGear Connect is what I should get, but I'll be annoying and say I want a front facing camera so maybe Evo 4G with no carrier service is even better so I can video skype with it. Would the Evo 4G work for me, or is it a useless zombie util it's activated on a cell carrier? What about other smartphone devices, do they all work or all not work?
Well you can buy uncontracted devices like I have and there are also plenty of tablet android devices that dont come with a plan. as for actual phone devices most of them come with a plan because its presumed that you will use it to make calls. Thats where tablets come in, usually contract free (Galaxy Tab exception) and allow for full use of the device using WiFi or another connection source.
Captainkrtek said:
Well you can buy uncontracted devices like I have and there are also plenty of tablet android devices that dont come with a plan. as for actual phone devices most of them come with a plan because its presumed that you will use it to make calls. Thats where tablets come in, usually contract free (Galaxy Tab exception) and allow for full use of the device using WiFi or another connection source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My only problem with tablets is they are too big. I want something phone sized or iPod Touch sized. (which is about the size of a phone)
As long as the device is running 2.0+ (I think) , you won't need it tied to a carrier to use it. You can do it with older FW too but it would need a data plan so you can sign in and get to the home screen and use it. Newer FW, you can activate wifi during setup so you can log in to your gmail account.
Once logged in, you can use it like a iPod touch, download from the market, etc.
I have a Captivate, Incredible, and a Fascinate that I've been able to use while not hooked up to a carrier. I've even had a G1 without a carrier. Just had to borrow a friends SIM to log in to my gmail for activation but then works after that without it.
Did this with my HD2 running Android
So I'm an adventurous 19 year old guy living on Maui in Hawaii. I'm also a sponsored almost professional scooter rider. So I look up behind me and what do I see? a 10,023 foot tall volcano called Haleakala. So I was looking around for something to do and saw my scooter. The nearest skatepark is too damn far so I hiked 13 miles up this volcano all the way to the summit at 10,023 feet and took pictures then bombed down the perfectly smooth paved rode 28 miles to the bottom at about 45 miles an hour on my kick scooter.
Blah blah blah, anyways...
I jumped over a nice dip in the rode and my HD2 which was just bought the day before flew out of my pocket at about 25 miles an hour and hite the ground once on the corner then flew off in to the grass. I found the battery, cover and phone itself after about 30 minutes of looking. The screen was good besides a few deep scratches and a nice sized dent in the battery cover. The plastic of the phone was pretty scratched as well.
Mad? Nahh not at all. I was looking for a reason to get a new phone already after 24 hours and this gave me a good reason to go get that sexy looking G2 I saw...
So Now I am happy with my G2 and also use my HD2 as my mobile computer with the Ubuntu and android OS on it. Ubuntu is for word processing since I am a writer. Android is for my camera and music and games. It works out amazing and I love the look of peoples faces when im messing around with two phones on the bus...
Go for it. You wont be dissappointed and it beats the IPOD touch hands down. Sorry I capitalized ipod, it didnt deserve it...
Now that's a story! You better take care of your G2, did you sell your HD2?
The way I understand things is that with "4G" aka hspa+ and LTE id that the towers are now glorified wireless routers with a hard line (fiber or something ) routing all Internet access from your phone (which has its own unique Mac address) through your carriers servers. So why does it cost $50/3GB of data when if you have Internet access through an isp at your home you're paying the same for pretty much unlimited usage? Greed? All the carriers talk about people straining the network with all the band with usage, it's like how they charge for texting when it doesn't cost anything extra since it's sending your text through the towers pinging between themselves and your phone? Any thoughts or do you think I'm just rambling and don't have my information correct?
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It's not that simple.
Obviously all this wonderful technology costs a bunch... if it was as cheap as you make it sound, either one of two things would be true:
1. The phone companies would be insanely wealthy.
or
2. Someone would start a phone company that undercut the others, since everyone else is 'overcharging'.
Neither of which has happened.
The infrastructure to carry all that data costs BILLIONS, and then you can tack on all the money it costs to actually run it, and make sure that it stays running.
Frankly, you should be happy that they can get it to you for the reasonable value they do.
FearTheCowboy said:
It's not that simple.
Obviously all this wonderful technology costs a bunch... if it was as cheap as you make it sound, either one of two things would be true:
1. The phone companies would be insanely wealthy.
or
2. Someone would start a phone company that undercut the others, since everyone else is 'overcharging'.
Neither of which has happened.
The infrastructure to carry all that data costs BILLIONS, and then you can tack on all the money it costs to actually run it, and make sure that it stays running.
Frankly, you should be happy that they can get it to you for the reasonable value they do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good points, 1 the telcos are wealthy pulling in billions in profits every quarter
2 they've effectively made it so you can't make your own upstart to undercut them, as far as isps go
With all this money being spent on technology and the fact that as technology gets more advanced it becomes cheaper to produce. I do understand needing revenue to use towards R&D and updating and maintaining equipment, but if you lived in a city that's blanketed in "free" wifi you could effectively use it for voip and all your data needs.
I get you'd be paying more from an isp to be getting lte speeds per month, rather from the carrier of your choice, but it's a flat rate, you don't get X GBs of data and they charge you more if you go over, even with the billions the isps use to maintain and update their equipment, but what about the existing infrastructure, it's not like it was built over the past few years. Mobile data just tunnels through the Internet, like I said it really is just specialized 802.xx wireless equipment essentially. It's not like every time I access the Internet on my phone that it has to chain between 30+ towers to get to me. How is it that the price of mobile data has gone up but to have high speed at home its gone down?
Sorry now I'm just rambling lol
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