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Buying a new phone

Hi everyone, I am in the market for a new Pocket PC style phone with a QWERTY style keybaord on it. Through my research I have found out that all QWERTY style Pocket PC's are also phones.
So after looking around at a number of models out there the i-Mate JASJAR phone really caught my eye. However, also while looking around I found this site and figured I would ask an active community what my best choice would be. I will buy from anywhere in the world if it will be cheaper in the end.
I have a plan with Fido currently and a sim card in my LG phone working at the moment.
The things I need in a Pocket PC Phone:
Hardware
- Fido Canada Compatability (GSM ~1900) for phone
- WiFi (802.11b) for data
- Bluetooth support
- SD Card Slot for my 1gb card
- USB port to connect to computer
- Decent processor and RAM.
Software
- Windows 2005 (or whatever the latest is)
- General Word / Excel Applications
- MSN Messenger
I'm not used to looking up information about phones and cross compatibility, and being in canada all I am used to is being screwed up the rear with cell phone costs and locked phones. So thats why I am coming here for help.
Any help would be greatly appriciated.
Thank you all in advance.
Antonio the Knight of Ni.

Hello,
If all you you need are those listed, basically you can pick any PPC that is offered today by the cell phone providers today in North America, as it will be cheaper than buying an unlocked one. Mostly the providers today offered one of the Wizard varians, like in the USA, most of the providers (Cingular, T-Mobile, Verizon, Sprint), all of them carry of the Wizard varians, with price around US$350 for 2 years contract. Full price without contract here is around US$500.
I'm an owner of i-mate Jasjar (Universal). Compared to a Wizard, Jasjar/Universal is much more expensive here in North America, because no provider carry it, thus we have to buy full price.
Compared to Wizard, however, Universal has the following:
1. Processor is twice/more faster technically.
2. Screen is VGA, compared to Wizard (QVGA).
3. Heavier, bulkier, etc.
4. Universal is wow when used as a mini laptop, but Wizard is wow when used a mini PPC and phone.
I can tell you, I'm always impressed with my Uni when I read PDF doc, emails, remote connecting to my PC, watching videos.
All of your requirement can be easily fulfilled by a WIzard instead of a Universal.

Well, I am willing to spend up to $800 so I dont have to be in a contract, and my goal is to get it to work on my Canadian provider Fido. So, the phone is going to have to be unlocked in order for me to beable to use it on my provider as they dont sell any pocket pc phones, only their parent company rogers does but I am on a grandfathered contract with fido that gives me unlimited calling, so i would like to maintain that.
So, as far as unlocked phones go, your saying that the Jaspar is probly the best call? Excuse the pun.

In the market
I am in the market for a ppc phone as well and I have come down to a decision between the Universal and the Wizard, but I would like some user feedback about both models. I noticed the Wizard has a 200mhz TI cpu and the Universal has a 520mhz intel cpu. What is the actual performance difference between the two? Does the wizard use its clock cycles more efficiently closing some of the gap or is the universal really 2.6 times faster? What about the resolution difference? I think this might be a big selling factor for me. Does it make a big difference? I know on a computer I can't stand to use anything less than 1600x1200. The bottom line is it looks like it is going to cost me twice as much for the universal as the wizard is the extra money worth it? I am looking at using T-Mobile here in the states. They only offer the MDA(Wizard) and not the MDA Pro(Universal) but I think either way I will probably pick one up off of ebay and try and save some money. Thanks in advance for your help.

Last year, around Oct-Nov, I was in the same place you were today. I had the plan that I did not want to lose. I did not want to sign any new contract.
I want unlocked Pocket PC so that I can use it when I travel to Asia and any where. And I decided I would not mind to pay the full price. My budget was... however, I pushed it all the way to over $1000 in order to buy the best.
I considered that single invesment to fullfill at least many years to come needs, therefore, go with the most advance one, rather than buy a cheaper one, but half way.
That's the whole reason I was finally decided to get a Universal. But if you ask me to share my opinion with you today, after using Universal more than 6 months, I think it was not the best decision I made with the purchase. Do not get me wrong, I learned and experienced many new things since I had my Uni, and its extremely well built and nice device, nothing like it really. The screen especially, may be the best you will ever see in any Pocket PC. But for daily use, for phone, for carry around, for many occasions, I do not use it, simply its not pratical. I usually swiched back to my old one. Then I would blame myself, why did you buy it if you do not want to use it? Sad
Most of the time now I leave my Uni at home to be used with my home wifi. I have seen many ppl are happier with their decision to get a smaller scale one like Wizard or Prophet. Prophet is about the same size with the Wizard, except its thinner as it has no keyboard but better button layout. They do not mind even though the screen is a quarter than the Universal and the processor speed is half of the Universal as well. And indeed, for daily practical use (phone, email, notes) it does serve the purpose. Absolutely, when you want to browse the web, then smaller screen is not as good as VGA like Universal Smile When it comes to size and easy carry, smaller size is better.
Hope I'm not making your more confused. But if I can re-decide I would pick a Prophet instead. Since I have decided with a Uni, I'm happy to live with it as I do not want/cannot afford a new one right now.
KJam and Jamin (Wizard and Prophet) are identical in term of hardware spec (procesor, memory, etc) but has different apperance.
KJam/Wizard is thicker because it has a keyboard, Jamin/Prophet does not have one, but Jamin/Prophet has a better button layout that will allow single handed use of the device.
The last thing which is very important to know as well, KJam/Wizard use Mini SD, Jamin/Prophet use SD (Full size). Many ppl (like myself) will not buy something that use mini SD as I have invested quite a lot in big size SD card and would like to continue using the same card.

keep in mind that canada and a lot of the US uses 1900 and 850 freq for cellular
that being said, the wizard will work in more places than the universal because there are places that are 850 only and the universal doesn't have it
but if you want more pda features, then you'll have to give up some possible reception

Here, check out this link:
http://www.htcamerica.net/products/default.htm
Here you can find all the Wizard variants that are being offered in the US market, by each cell phone provider. Canadian providers are also listed here.

I signed up for service with T-Mobile a week ago and just got a crappy $10 Samsung R225m for the time being. I decided I will get The Universal and if I know I am going somewhere out in the boonies where I will need 850mhz analog I will grab the samsung. Is cloning your sim legal? Like let us say I want to have multiple cards in case something happens or if i want a data telemtry device in my car which would be used rather infrequently to share everything.

Wait a minute.... I was just looking and the Universal doesn't have EDGE does it? Does anyone in the states know how widespread T-Mobile's EDGE coverage is? How much of a difference does it make in speed?

HTC Mogul coming in July!

http://www.geardiary.com/2007/06/17/unboxing-the-htc-mogul-sprints-new-wm6-phone/
this phone looks promising.. hopefully it isnt a flop like the 6700

already there....
Telus P4000
http://www.telusmobilite.com/qc/pcs/handset_htc_p4000.shtml
Sprint Mogul
http://nextelonline.nextel.com/NASApp/onlinestore/en/Action/DisplayPhones?phoneSKU=PPC6800SP

Actually it came today.. UPS just dropped mine off from Sprint.

OK I have 7 days to get out of my TMO contract to go with the cheaper service of sprint.
Bugout...how it the phone (I have a Wizard)? The main confusing I'm having is Sprint lists it as having GPS-A and no where can I see that in any specs (nor can I find the claim it has ATI graphics). Any validity, first thoughts.

There's reviews all over the place.. but here are my first thoughts coming from 2 weeks with an 8525 (which im returning back to AT&T) and a 700p..
The keyboard has a very nice "spring" to it, unlike the hermes, which requires more of a push/pull to open and close it.
I dont know the exact number, but it's about 10mm thinner then a hermes, but it feels much thinner and lighter then a hermes.
I'm still wet behind the ears with WM (long time palm user and the 700p nightmare had me jump ship). All the applications are very snappy. There is no button in the comm manager to turn on/off wi-fi, there is however a hard switch on the lower left to turn it on and off. SPB pocket plus will turn wifi off/on via an the screen button.
It came with 2 Y adapters in the box. 1 for a/c charge and usb sync, and another for charge and a 3.5mm standard headset jack.
The GPSA is only for location based services, it does not have a standard usable GPS in it. As far as I know it also does not have ATI graphics.
I'm still having usability issues because there seems to be steep learning curve coming from palm i.e. no contact list in the sms app, very annoying or maybe I haven't found it yet, or I just have to retrain my brain to send SMS from contacts instead of the actual SMS app.
Another very annoying this is that there is no battery meter on the top bar. I have to do my research to figure out how to turn that on.

My Mogul should arrive today. I ordered it because I wanted a reliable 3G phone. I've been using an 8525 with Cingy. The 3G internet works great. However, voice call quality with Cingy in Salt Lake City sucks. Lots of dropped and garbled calls. Also, battery life is about 10 hours.
It's rumored that The Mogul has better battery life. Sprint also offers some very nice data packages and 3G in many more places than even Verizon.
I cannot wait to give the phone a try.

Here's the link to the ATI claim http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7748
I think Dailytech is just confused because the chipset uses it (it also allows for an 8mp camera which would be nice )
I know GPSA is location based only but supposedly Sprint is offering their Navigator program with it to work. GPSA does talk to GPS satellites...just with a network and probably something proprietary.
Does anyone know how hackable the Mogul will be. I don't want it on a different network, just maybe a different ROM or something. I've always seen the issues with unlocking CDMA phone but the Apaches seemed to unlock sooo.
Sorry for all the questions...I just now have 6 days to switch (which I'm going to as sprint offered to take my $70 monthly bill to $30). And sprints basic call centers dont understand some of my spec questions.

if alltell gets this by december ill get it thru them because i was thinking of switching to alltell around that time..

My gfs doing that same with Altell...however...someone just reminded me of this http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/07/feds-impose-partial-ban-on-qualcomm-powered-phones/ Qualcomm phones now have a partial ban on them (shipping into the US) which could lead to supply issues.
On a sidenote either one of the sprint people what to do the $25 refer a friends. I sign up, claim you (give them your cell) refered me...you make $25...i make $25....PM me if your in!

hmm well that ban sucks ass.. if sprint wasnt such a POS id switch over to them..

yes, sprint does offer a navigation service, but it's $9.99/mo.
The internal GPS on this thing is very accurate. I signed up for the free trial of "Sprint family locator" and it had me pegged exactly where I was. Locating my wifes phone (a treo 650 which is in the same house was 2 miles off).
I don't think anyone knows how hackable the mogul is just yet.. That's what we get for "bleeding edge"

can someone post the sprint today theme

I'm still still new to this, but if you can point me to a link that shows me how/where it is, I'd be happy to.
edit found it:
http://rapidshare.com/files/38364040/Sprint_Default.tsk.html

Would you recommend the Fuze?

I've really been considering to buy the Fuze, but I'm getting mixed reviews. For all the Fuze owners, please answer the poll so that us potential buyers will know what to do.
Thanks!

anyone else wanna vote?

theomni said:
anyone else wanna vote?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm stuck in between the Fuze and the Touch Pro now... I really don't know which one is better? They are the same price nowadays.

I recommend it. I had the Tilt before and I love the Touch, its probably the best WM phone I've had (I've used the Sprint 700wx, Sprint Q, Sprint Touch, AT&T Tilt and now the AT&T Fuze).
I'm sure the few issues that exist with the Fuze will be fixed within a month or two because of the wonderful people we have here making custom ROMs, porting radios, etc.

I am very happy with my Fuze. It's not perfect and definitely needs some tweaks, but I think it is the best Windows Mobile phone ever put out. The screen is fantastic and makes it worth it by itself.
Pros:
VGA screen
Excellent multimedia
Youtube works both in it's own app and the mobile website
Slingbox looks fantastic
Expanded keyboard
Sleek design
Touch Flo 3D really works good
Finally, good bluetooth reception
Cons:
So-so d-pad
More remappable buttons needed
No headphone out jack
I do miss the tilting screen of the Tilt
No forward facing camera (why AT&T?)
Overall, I love the phone. I don't even need to use my laptop much anymore. Plus, it should only get better. I can't wait to see the Fennec web browser released for WinMo.

The Fuze can run on AT&T's 3G bands, which is the biggest difference. Physically, the Fuze has a PTT button (remappable using a trick in this forum) and the Pro has a front-faceing camera, but they are otherwise the same. You can install whatever Touch Pro ROM you want on the Fuze once you flash Hard SPL on it, so the software difference should not be an issue. If you're on AT&T and in a 3G area, it's a no-brainer decision between the two.

Tempest790 said:
No forward facing camera (why AT&T?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
US carriers don't support that functionality so it's cheaper for HTC to leave it out all together.

I've swithed from iPhone after droolling over Fuze release date for 2 months. First couple of days had slight regret (my first WM phone), but once I got the hang of it I fell in love with it. My girl tried it out and dropped her iPhone for Fuze aswell. IMHO, Fuze is on a much higher level and you just can't customize the iPhone the way you can Fuze, no matter what Apple commercials say. Oh and by the way, I realized how crappy Apple products are, but that's another story.

I said no because its not for everyone. I read a lot of people wanting something other than the iphone because of the data plan, this is not an iphone. Then they go and complaint that they cant do this, that its slow, that this, that that. I confess, I am/was one of those whining byotches. I know its not an iphone, I'm just afraid to customizing with roms and then f-it up and be stuck with a nice $300 paper weight. So maybe after my month is up, I'll have the balls to customize it.

Do you have to buy a data plan with the Fuze like you have to with the iPhone, for AT&T?

Only if you want the rebate.

If you want the best browser/entertainment device thats easy to use get an iphone. If you need a business phone outside of entertainment, get the fuze. Both are aimed at different type of consumer.

I know this is exactly what everyone hates to hear, and they just want a plain yes or no, but it really does depend on the person.
If your the kind of person thats really into the stuff they buy, and wants a device that has tons of opportunities and possibilities, then you will probably like the fuze. The beautiful thing about winmo devices is how much you can mess around with them. You can download tons of apps, customize, flash new ROMs, experiment, all kinds of stuff.
If you want something that is ALWAYS going to be friendly and never ever give you any quirks or problems and you just want something that is very cut and dry, the fuze may not be for you.
I would line up your priorities and see what is most important to you and more importantly, what would make you want to throw your phone out the window, cause those are the things that are ultimately going to make you happy when your using your device.

Fuze thoughts:
I have had this phone for 3 days now. My prior phone was an 8125. I unlocked and customized that phone after 30 days. I will most likely do the same thing with this one. Gotta read read read.
Initial review: Absolutely the awesomest phone I have had to date, only the 3rd PDA, though.
I miss the programmable buttons. I haven't figured everything out, but I am getting the hang of it. It has advanced customization, though I haven't even touched the surface. The keyboard is a little different from my 8125, and as I have used it extensively for 2 years, I am accustomed to the numbers being along the top row. I think the 'Full 5 Row QWERTY keyboard on the phone should more closely resemble a normal keyboard, however, I am certain I will get used to it with a little practice.
I have one problem that AT&T doesn't know how to fix: the error message "Smart Chip Not Provisioned MM #2" comes up and shuts off phone signal. I initially thought it was the smart chip. I placed it in my 8125, and no problems. Then I exchanged the phone. Still no fix. It isn't a hard error I can readily duplicate, it just happens intermittently, but only in a specific location, so now I suspect the towers serving the area in which it happens. I suppose it could be the sim card in conjunction with the 3G network which the 8125 doesn't support, but further troubleshooting will eventually solve this one.
Addtionally I was hoping that AT&T wouldn't cripple the forward facing camera, but it isn't there, and I'm not willing to pay $550 more for a Touch Pro off Ebay just for that. As there isn't a lot of network support for live video conferencing, it really isn't that much of a problem for me anyway.
Reception seems to be about the same as my 8125, but again, further testing will support or disprove my initial experience. I am currently having trouble with the GPS function, but it is probably just a configuration/setup issue that I have not played with enough. The phone will tether without the laptop connect package, but you have to make a small edit in the registry. This is a relatively painless process.
This is not meant to criticize the Fuze. These are the only real problems (and minor to me) that I have encountered, and would give this phone a HIGH recommendation.
MrRuss

Is the HTC Fuze the right device for me?

So this year I've decided to spoil myself and buy a new toys, something I haven't done in a longggggg while
Anyways, I'm very seriously thinking of getting Windows Mobile smartphone because it seems to me that the technology is at such a level that they're now actually becoming computers you can carry in your pocket (pocket pc!). I travel a lot and I have to bring a lot of equipement with me so I'm looking to combine several devices into one to save weight and space.
I've been doing my homework in the last 2 weeks and I think I have it narrowed down to 2 devices: the HTC Fuze and the Samsung Omnia. There are other interesting devices on the market unfortunatly I do have a limited budget and these 2 are at the upper limit, hence why the Xperia isn't mentionned.
So far the Fuze seems more interesting because for almost the same price I get multi-touch, a real keyboard and a VGA screen however I'm wondering if it truly fits my needs.
Essentially I want something that:
-will act like a beefed up PDA almost computer like level(hence WinMo)
-be usable when a travel therefore needs quadband GSM and ideally triband 3G. I don't intent to use 3G data just yet because it's too expensive in Canada but I see that criteria as futureproofing such an expensive purchase incase GSM is one day shutdown for voice.
-has a good enough screen that I can use it as a ebook reader (been doing that with my Ipaq RX3115 for about 5 years now)
-handle a bit of multimedia, mainly mp3 but a bit of video wouldn't hurt.
And this brings me to a question: does the Fuze always come with the 3.5mm adapter? I'm in Canada so I'd most likely be being an imported ATT phone
Also, what about the warranty? Am I SOL since it's imported or could I get warranty support straight from HTC?
-act as a GPS WITHOUT a data connection. Reading on this it seem possible to use TomTom with the device in a reasonnable fashion; I don't mind waiting 2-3 minutes for the GPS to lock but 15-20 mins would be more annoying...
Basically as much fonctionnality as possible in one device.
I also understand that there are MANY roms available for this device; considering that I'm not currently a power user (but might eventually become one) can I expect acceptable performance with the stock rom? I don't mind loading up new apps, I've been doing that on my venerable old Ipaq for a while but I'd rather start slow with this.
Also, can I expect reasonnable speed running programs off the SD card? This is one major advantage of the Omnia since it has 16gb onboard storage.
What about Wifi performance? I assume it's going to be on par with my Ipaq, i.e. not as good as my laptop but still usable is the access point isn't too far away.
And finally, how long can I except the battery to last? I won't be making call all day, probably more in the lines of listening to music and sending email via wifi. Probably a bit of ebook reading as well.
Basically the Fuze seems like the idea device except for a few issues I've been reading about here which I'm trying to determine how major they are.
Anyways, comments appreciated
Cheers!
Pat

Anyone?
Pat

Welcome to the forum
I can recommend you to enter here, select the compeonents you want on a device and check the options
http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdachooser
Good luck,

Pat007 said:
So this year I've decided to spoil myself and buy a new toys, something I haven't done in a longggggg while
Anyways, I'm very seriously thinking of getting Windows Mobile smartphone because it seems to me that the technology is at such a level that they're now actually becoming computers you can carry in your pocket (pocket pc!). I travel a lot and I have to bring a lot of equipement with me so I'm looking to combine several devices into one to save weight and space.
I've been doing my homework in the last 2 weeks and I think I have it narrowed down to 2 devices: the HTC Fuze and the Samsung Omnia. There are other interesting devices on the market unfortunatly I do have a limited budget and these 2 are at the upper limit, hence why the Xperia isn't mentionned.
So far the Fuze seems more interesting because for almost the same price I get multi-touch, a real keyboard and a VGA screen however I'm wondering if it truly fits my needs.
Essentially I want something that:
-will act like a beefed up PDA almost computer like level(hence WinMo)
-be usable when a travel therefore needs quadband GSM and ideally triband 3G. I don't intent to use 3G data just yet because it's too expensive in Canada but I see that criteria as futureproofing such an expensive purchase incase GSM is one day shutdown for voice.
-has a good enough screen that I can use it as a ebook reader (been doing that with my Ipaq RX3115 for about 5 years now)
-handle a bit of multimedia, mainly mp3 but a bit of video wouldn't hurt.
And this brings me to a question: does the Fuze always come with the 3.5mm adapter? I'm in Canada so I'd most likely be being an imported ATT phone
Also, what about the warranty? Am I SOL since it's imported or could I get warranty support straight from HTC?
-act as a GPS WITHOUT a data connection. Reading on this it seem possible to use TomTom with the device in a reasonnable fashion; I don't mind waiting 2-3 minutes for the GPS to lock but 15-20 mins would be more annoying...
Basically as much fonctionnality as possible in one device.
I also understand that there are MANY roms available for this device; considering that I'm not currently a power user (but might eventually become one) can I expect acceptable performance with the stock rom? I don't mind loading up new apps, I've been doing that on my venerable old Ipaq for a while but I'd rather start slow with this.
Also, can I expect reasonnable speed running programs off the SD card? This is one major advantage of the Omnia since it has 16gb onboard storage.
What about Wifi performance? I assume it's going to be on par with my Ipaq, i.e. not as good as my laptop but still usable is the access point isn't too far away.
And finally, how long can I except the battery to last? I won't be making call all day, probably more in the lines of listening to music and sending email via wifi. Probably a bit of ebook reading as well.
Basically the Fuze seems like the idea device except for a few issues I've been reading about here which I'm trying to determine how major they are.
Anyways, comments appreciated
Cheers!
Pat
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the fuze is a great device however the Touch Pro 2 (the successor to the Fuze) should be out in a few months, it is superior to the Fuze in many meaningful ways, my suggestion would be to hold off on your purchase until the Touch Pro 2 comes out in the US (make sure you get the US version) it would suck to buy the fuze (which is a great device) and then 3 months later a superior device come out (at the same price)

aaronsmckee said:
the fuze is a great device however the Touch Pro 2 (the successor to the Fuze) should be out in a few months, it is superior to the Fuze in many meaningful ways, my suggestion would be to hold off on your purchase until the Touch Pro 2 comes out in the US (make sure you get the US version) it would suck to buy the fuze (which is a great device) and then 3 months later a superior device come out (at the same price)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must be missing something because I looked up the Touch Pro on the website suggested earlier and pretty much the only difference I see with the Fuze is a bigger screen and a slightly different GPS chip. Am I missing anything?
Also, I'd like to have triband 3G (which the Fuze has) because I'm in Canada and judging from the Touch Pro launch it's probably going to take a while before there's a NA version of the Touch Pro 2.
One thing that really has me a litlle worried with buying an imported phone is the warranty because the store I'm looking to buying it from is on the other side of the country from me.
Does HTC provide international warranty support?
Thks!
Pat

Att Network Up to par??

dunno how many of you saw this but i am very disappointed and pissed off about this little news if its true
http://pocketpc-live.com/top-stories/bad-news-for-pocketpc-sling-users.html
Not only have ATT 3G network crashed nurmious times but the fact that they bragging about having the fastest 3G nationwide is a bit of a over hyped statement if they cant simply handle data streaming of Sling Media but they could allow they crappy knock off *CV TV*

allthatinny said:
Not only have ATT 3G network crashed nurmious times but the fact that they bragging about having the fastest 3G nationwide is a bit of a over hyped statement if they cant simply handle data streaming of Sling Media but they could allow they crappy knock off *CV TV*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not that I'm a fan of the policy by any stretch, but I can't help but want to agree with them in targeting Sling.
It reminds me of when I was in college (around 2000) and the network admin was debating a ban on counterstrike communicating outside of the dorms because it took just 20 players to slow something as simple as web browsing to the point pages frequently timed out. Note, at the time Counterstrike's network code was a joke and the college didn't have a very good internet connection to the dorms anyway (the campus was on a different connection).
The comparison is easy to make, as Sling isn't well optimized at all. For network management, it uses Windows Media Video 9 (VC-1) to handle network transmissions, which (I'm told, I can't claim expert knowledge) is only good within local networks or a very small number of hops over the internet, otherwise it becomes confused and tends to fire more data than it should. There's also the issue of I-Frame intervals, which appear to be set rather low by default (meaning higher I-Frames). I-Frames take more data and cause higher bandwidth. Searching didn't turn up many positive comments about sling's video scaling (which obviously should be done if it's played on a screen small enough to fit in your pocket). I admit, this information comes from some quick googling, so it may possibly lack in accuracy, but it does hint that Sling isn't well suited to efficient use on a cellular data network.
I realize some people use Sling for home security cameras or possibly some other useful scenario other than watching TV, but let's be honest....if it's just about watching an episode of Grey's Anatomy on your phone while at work...then it's pretty lame. Obviously technology CAN support this, but only as long as it's a few people doing it. If the idea caught on, it would bring down any cellular network.
I admit, I'm not a Sling user, so perhaps I'm a little biased...

does that mean they've blocked sling's connection completely?
and i think it's b.s...we all paid the hefty fee for data plan so we should all be entitled to the 5GB or so soft cap. cut off the connection after the user has reached that limit! they can't just censor certain applications to help the network run more smoothly. they were supposed to provide a network that CAN sustain such traffic in the first place. If AT&T can't hold up to that much, they deserve to be and will be sued (unless of course they lower our data plan fees)
oh, and I think sling brought it upon themselves when they came out with the iphone app. i get the feeling AT&T only started this now because iphone users are feeling cheated ("the winmo users can watch sling, so why can't we?") this should teach iphone app developers a lesson! =p

Slingplayer is still working fine.
AT&T may just end up forbidding sling from working on their network in further software releases.

baboola said:
and i think it's b.s...we all paid the hefty fee for data plan so we should all be entitled to the 5GB or so soft cap. cut off the connection after the user has reached that limit! they can't just censor certain applications to help the network run more smoothly. they were supposed to provide a network that CAN sustain such traffic in the first place. If AT&T can't hold up to that much, they deserve to be and will be sued (unless of course they lower our data plan fees)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not really arguing here, I just wanted to point out that if you replace every instance of 'AT&T' with 'COMCAST' you will have the argument that was made by Comcast customers in 2007 about bittorrent traffic being blocked. Comcast backed down due to bad press, and a number of legal issues (primary reasons being that they didn't publicly admit to the censorship, and because their method of censorship was fraudulent...they were faking network packets, not just blocking them). Comcast didn't fully back down, but just adjusted their policy and tightened their methods of handling heavy customers. Note, this is a full sized ISP working over high speed cable, not a wireless provider that ALSO offers internet.
AT&T might back down, but I have the feeling this isn't going to draw enough ire to build the large public outcry that's necessary. I certainly doubt that they would lose any legal case regarding this. Even a legal case built around anti-competitive practices would fail since there's other methods to get video onto a phone via wireless.
Sling might stand to get some trouble since a lot of people surely bought into the equipment and iPhone app at the same time, and now won't get much use from either.
Of course, Sling may also consider suing AT&T if this becomes a protocol block...They actually stand a chance of winning that fight.

reason why i said they not up to par is due to the fact that technology is changing, we are streaming almost everything over networks now, its like att said "Your world connected"
movies is being streamed over networks, communcations, video feeds, audio, data, near everything and another big factor, is HD (Hi-Def) everyone wants HD cuz the quality is awesome but some companies complain about heavy usage when in reality streaming a full size HD movie is not easy, can we be blame cuz they network cant handle the traffic, NO! not like we not paying our monthly service fees but putting softcaps and all these stupid things is just plan out stupid and its stopping use from evolving.
hell i had my ISP put a cap on me once for hosting a game server from my PS3 console, i was hosting a TF2 server i think, and they told me that i cant do it cuz its agaisnt policy yet the feature is in video games to use and to allow us to play, what if every ISP in the world were to enforce that rule then all servers will have to be run by software companies and we will be changed for it to maintain they servers.
i personally think att NEEDS to upgrade they network to meet with todays demand, cuz when Hi Def really settles, what will happen then, ATT will change they policy just to hold us back.

allthatinny said:
Movies is being streamed over networks, communcations, video feeds, audio, data, near everything and another big factor, is HD (Hi-Def) everyone wants HD cuz the quality is awesome but some companies complain about heavy usage when in reality streaming a full size HD movie is not easy, can we be blame cuz they network cant handle the traffic, NO! not like we not paying our monthly service fees but putting softcaps and all these stupid things is just plan out stupid and its stopping use from evolving.
...
i personally think att NEEDS to upgrade they network to meet with todays demand, cuz when Hi Def really settles, what will happen then, ATT will change they policy just to hold us back.
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I agree completely with your end-point that AT&T needs to upgrade and they are under-performing given the price point we pay.
However, I think your reasoning is completely wrong. HD Video? If we had any phones that could REALLY handle HD video, it might be a different subject. You're talking about 2 things that are kind of absurd at this point, streaming HD over cellular wireless and actually being able to identify a measurable difference on a phone once you have it. Wired ISPs are having enough trouble with streaming HD, a wireless provider can't compete with them. Keep in mind, HSDPA's (not 3g) highest realistic transmission speed is only barely capable of meeting the lowest acceptable speed for streaming 720i video. Please also remember, the NEW cool toys for home theater is hardware capable of short range streaming of HD, you're talking about very long range. Second, what phone is going to display HD video substantially better than decently encoded standard def video? On screens this small, HD video is a waste of time. Once TV-Out is adopted and displays something other than a pure screen copy (which automatically displays only the phone's resolution), then the subject can be brought back up. Keep in mind, I'm talking about current phones, not those that are coming eventually with the Tegra chip or other future implementations. In a year, the technological realities could shift enough that a very small percentage of users could be talking about this stuff, but today it's not a part of the real use case scenarios.
In my opinion, here are the real reasons this news should be bad and we need to push AT&T to improve their network:
a) The point of forcing iPhone users to get a data plan was to fund improvement of the 3g and hsdpa capabilities of their network. We've suffered through the poor performance caused by the iPhone, now it's time to see the network improve beyond the point it was at BEFORE the evil phone came.
b) The solution to the problem should never be banning a protocol/service/feature. Raising cost or putting limits on it would be reasonable, but completely blocking something is absurd and unreasonable.
c) I know I had another reason, but I forgot it while typing....

speed_pour said:
I agree completely with your end-point that AT&T needs to upgrade and they are under-performing given the price point we pay.
However, I think your reasoning is completely wrong. HD Video? If we had any phones that could REALLY handle HD video, it might be a different subject. You're talking about 2 things that are kind of absurd at this point, streaming HD over cellular wireless and actually being able to identify a measurable difference on a phone once you have it. Wired ISPs are having enough trouble with streaming HD, a wireless provider can't compete with them. Keep in mind, HSDPA's (not 3g) highest realistic transmission speed is only barely capable of meeting the lowest acceptable speed for streaming 720i video. Please also remember, the NEW cool toys for home theater is hardware capable of short range streaming of HD, you're talking about very long range. Second, what phone is going to display HD video substantially better than decently encoded standard def video? On screens this small, HD video is a waste of time. Once TV-Out is adopted and displays something other than a pure screen copy (which automatically displays only the phone's resolution), then the subject can be brought back up. Keep in mind, I'm talking about current phones, not those that are coming eventually with the Tegra chip or other future implementations. In a year, the technological realities could shift enough that a very small percentage of users could be talking about this stuff, but today it's not a part of the real use case scenarios.
In my opinion, here are the real reasons this news should be bad and we need to push AT&T to improve their network:
a) The point of forcing iPhone users to get a data plan was to fund improvement of the 3g and hsdpa capabilities of their network. We've suffered through the poor performance caused by the iPhone, now it's time to see the network improve beyond the point it was at BEFORE the evil phone came.
b) The solution to the problem should never be banning a protocol/service/feature. Raising cost or putting limits on it would be reasonable, but completely blocking something is absurd and unreasonable.
c) I know I had another reason, but I forgot it while typing....
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ok lets take HD out of the pic even though its not to far away, but lets say a netflix video streaming software for windows mobile.
if i pay my monthly service charge on att end and netflix, they put a 5G softcap, one movie alone will eat up alot of that 5GB of bandwidth
i moved from the iphone and i could tell u that iphone 3G has awesome streaming compatiblity there was this one site called PublicPost that had movies on there for free with limited about of user, got closed down due to legal reason but i use to be at work watching really hot movies at great audio and sound with no hiccup problem but the fact that att wanting to ban tv streaming is a bit over the edge

"Up to Par??" Never has been
I worked for Cingular right after AT&T bought them until the week they started rebranding their phones as AT&T.
Warning on my bias
As much as I appreciate their innovations as a company, like being the first company to offer simultaneous use of Voice & Data by way of 3G and having the most popular and innovative phone on their network... I was horribly dissappointed at a bunch of their choices.
-They transitioned too fast and incompletely. ie. They were still removing/upgrading old AT&T Wireless components on their towers as they began rolling out 3G in other areas.
-Many people I know, including myself, lost signal almost completely as they transitioned voice to higher frequencies (1900mHz) and WCDMA/3G to replace them on the lower freqs. (Lower frequencies, 850 & 900mHz, offer better penetration through solids like trees & buildings. T-mobile is still the only carrier I get 1-2 bars in my basement...underground). What a waste! Especially since there are already so many 3G phones overseas that only use the 2100mHz WCDMA.
-Infrastructure. Infrastructure. Infrastructure.
How does a telecommunication company not give itself the Infrastructure to support the demand that they knew the iPhone would bring.
I'm glad I'm not helping them deal with the nightmare they made for themselves. Someone would have to pay me to give up my Sprint TouchPro. Who, btw, had the first 3G ntwork and still has the fastest. I'm happy to see people leave Sprint to get an iPhone cause it makes the network even faster lol.

sc00basteve said:
I worked for Cingular right after AT&T bought them until the week they started rebranding their phones as AT&T.
Warning on my bias
As much as I appreciate their innovations as a company, like being the first company to offer simultaneous use of Voice & Data by way of 3G and having the most popular and innovative phone on their network... I was horribly dissappointed at a bunch of their choices.
-They transitioned too fast and incompletely. ie. They were still removing/upgrading old AT&T Wireless components on their towers as they began rolling out 3G in other areas.
-Many people I know, including myself, lost signal almost completely as they transitioned voice to higher frequencies (1900mHz) and WCDMA/3G to replace them on the lower freqs. (Lower frequencies, 850 & 900mHz, offer better penetration through solids like trees & buildings. T-mobile is still the only carrier I get 1-2 bars in my basement...underground). What a waste! Especially since there are already so many 3G phones overseas that only use the 2100mHz WCDMA.
-Infrastructure. Infrastructure. Infrastructure.
How does a telecommunication company not give itself the Infrastructure to support the demand that they knew the iPhone would bring.
I'm glad I'm not helping them deal with the nightmare they made for themselves. Someone would have to pay me to give up my Sprint TouchPro. Who, btw, had the first 3G ntwork and still has the fastest. I'm happy to see people leave Sprint to get an iPhone cause it makes the network even faster lol.
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What are you talking about? Really? You're wrong on a half a dozen counts.
AT&T bought absolutely nothing, in any part of their weird buyout ridden last 5 years. From Wikipedia: "Formerly a joint venture between SBC Communications and BellSouth, Cingular Wireless soon acquired the old AT&T Wireless; SBC later acquired the original AT&T and re-branded as "the new AT&T". Cingular became wholly-owned by the new AT&T in December 2006 as a result of AT&T's acquisition of BellSouth." The 3G rollout was already underway before anyone bought anything, I remember hearing about it when I signed up for AT&T Wireless in 2004. They didn't transition incompletely or anything, they've got the "world's fastest 3G network" running on a backbone barely fit for an MMORPG player.
T-Mobile is 1900 MHz ONLY, and uses 1700 MHz for 3G; you just get good signal in your basement because the tower is nearby.
Sounds like Sprint needs to pay you a little bit more to plug them like a salesman.
To the OP: Yes, AT&T sucks. I hate them for that too, blocking Sling because they know their network would crumble like a stack of cards if even 10% of us started seriously using our 3G.

sheik124 said:
To the OP: Yes, AT&T sucks. I hate them for that too, blocking Sling because they know their network would crumble like a stack of cards if even 10% of us started seriously using our 3G.
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Sorry, just asking for a bit of a quantification of this statement. It's true AT&T would flop and die like a fish out of water, but what carrier wouldn't?
In the interest of staying on topic, and reissuing my question more contextually; since Verizon is possibly going to gain sales rights to the iPhone, does anybody think that with a mass purchasing of the iPhone under Verizon that they may also suffer serious network degradation with regular uptake of the Sling app? Would they have a different response? Given Verizon's history, I think they would likely demand to filter appStore apps, which almost certainly includes the Sling app.
It's not that I disagree on the problems with AT&T, and I'm not trying to be an apologist for them (I swear, I really don't mean to be), but I see a lot of negative comments which seem to ignore that all of the other carriers are just as bad/incapable/inadequate/incompetent. Normally I ignore all of it, but today seems to have brought it out of me.

gee i think they should work on the cell sites handling handoffs' before they go worrying about much else. Constantly losing calls/data when i hit a new cell site outside of boston. Its getting old.
At&t sucks

same thing happens to me when am entering and leaving staten island, happens on both the ferry and on the bridge

Not sure if those who are interested have seen this, but over the in the Kaiser forum the same subject was brought up (albeit, more relevant subject line). A possible work-around is described for interested parties (assuming AT&T actually does any filtering on the protocol). Here's the thread: Slingbox users beware...At&t limiting 3g access

speed_pour said:
Sorry, just asking for a bit of a quantification of this statement. It's true AT&T would flop and die like a fish out of water, but what carrier wouldn't?
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Umm. Definitely Sprint.
I'm on a Sprint SERO plan and they have never complained about my data usage. That probably why they haven't said anything, but seriously. I will repeat: I'm happy to see people leave Sprint to get an iPhone cause it makes the network even faster lol.
I did 2.7+ gigs of data last month and 6+ the month before that.
Last night I tested this:
'nuff said

sc00basteve said:
Umm. Definitely Sprint.
I'm on a Sprint SERO plan and they have never complained about my data usage. That probably why they haven't said anything, but seriously. I will repeat: I'm happy to see people leave Sprint to get an iPhone cause it makes the network even faster lol.
I did 2.7+ gigs of data last month and 6+ the month before that.
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Somehow I suspect you live on the East Coast. My whole time growing up and living on the West Coast, there's only a few people I know that didn't complain about Sprint. Actually, Sprint is the only carrier that people around here have a serious problem with. I worked for a company for a short time that had a lot of people travel from Tennessee to here and each of them used Sprint, they all said that they had the best experience with it until they came here, then it was nearly unusable. Obviously, it's just like radio versions, quality depends entirely on the circumstances.
I do have to say, several months ago I drove from southern California most of the way up the west coast, downloaded a few movies and tv shows, then did the same on the trip back 2 weeks later. While I didn't count total amounts, the video alone had to be at least 4 gigs. That didn't count any of my data usage with web browsing or any time between trips. I also only had 3 dropped signals in more than 1000 miles (once in the desert, once at shasta mountain, and once in a mountain pass in southern oregon). On this coast, in my experience, AT&T is pretty rock solid and Sprint is difficult to use. Not sure about Verizon or TMo though, not many friends on either of those.

That makes sense
It does make sense. I was out in San Francisco a couple of years ago, when I had ATT, and it was really solid.
But Sprint users, fear not. I was talking to a teir2 tech a couple month ago and he was part of the citywide testing for WiMax in Seattle. I think it was Seattle, at least. Anyway, Baltimore rollout is functional and rollout + testing in many cities is an awesome sign.

ahhahaha sprint. Yea go for sprint, if you want a network that will be bought up soon. I cannot tell you how many sprint people have been laid off in the past 5 months. (cell techs+) They are almost ready to go belly up. And the 4g is a joke.
First they plopped all the 4g's on teh ground and started hooking them up. Then they went out and pulled them all and now they are beginning to put them back.. (my guess is so whoever buys them will see the numbers)
bottom line.... i wouldnt touch sprint w/ a 10foot pole right now.
At least MetroPCS is transparent. They are basically building verizon's new sites. hahahah Cdma2000 and 4g ready. lolz

well this is a bit off topic but here we go again, att practically embrass themself at the apple WWDC, no MMS support of iPhone, NO TETHERING,
and if ur a existing att customer and want to buy the new iphone u gotta pay any where from 299-399 with a new 2 YEAR CONTRACT, pfft not going through that again if i cant even stream sling media over they network, att can kiss my a$$

allthatinny said:
well this is a bit off topic but here we go again, att practically embrass themself at the apple WWDC, no MMS support of iPhone, NO TETHERING,
and if ur a existing att customer and want to buy the new iphone u gotta pay any where from 299-399 with a new 2 YEAR CONTRACT, pfft not going through that again if i cant even stream sling media over they network, att can kiss my a$$
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I kinda hoped to be done with this thread, but I was already reading the WWDC coverage and got a huge laugh and the coverage (the fact that they described the entire hall laughing at the tethering support issue). In point of fact, Apple is lying...a LOT.
MMS support is missing because Apple implemented the MMS protocol differently than virtually every handset maker in the world. The "upgrades" aren't performance upgrades, they are functional upgrades to support the alternate implementation. The story I heard from one of the techs is that AT&T wasn't made aware of this until just a few months ago and they weren't given time to implement software upgrades.
Tethering support has nothing to do with performance (though that's obviously going to be an issue). It's all about Apple and AT&T STILL discussing the pricing for the tethering plan. My theory, worth little more than a grain of salt, is that apple is trying to take a cut of tethering on top of the profits they already get from each plan...why else does apple need to negotiate when at&t already has set prices for this feature.
As to pricing...I don't see why everybody is throwing a huge fuss...Does every iphone user think they are god's children? If they want to upgrade their phone every year, they need to either be ready to pay a high price or have an upgrade coming. If Apple expects people to do this, then they should either create an trade-in plan, or some special mail-in rebate offer to existing iphone owners. That's not a carrier's job, not when the handsets are already subsidized so heavily.
The hardware upgrades for apple are laughable anyway. The new handset only comes with an upgraded camera and they finally flipped the switch on video recording that every jailbroken phone already had. Apple is just soaking their fanboys for money. I'm expecting 3G owners are going to see a tutorial in 2 months on how to replace the existing camera with the 3 megapixel one from the 3gs. Combined with jailbreaking, 3g owners will be able to have a 3gs at the cost of throwing out their warranty and buying a $30 replacement camera component.