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T-Mobile Wing vs Tilt vs Nokia N95- Advice please?

After spending much time searching your forums (my goodness you're all so knowledgeable and generous!) I haven't been able to quite answer my questions. I am in dire need of a phone as my crappy motorola is on it's last legs (we're talking buttons falling off, the works) so I've decided to spend some actual money on a decent phone. I've looked around for a while now and have been lusting after the Tilt for some time now. I would have to buy an unlocked one as I am on the T-mobile network and soon moving to Canada and switching to yet another network. My worry, however, is that I've heard and read some really terrible things about the Tilt. RLoD anyone? So while I am very drawn to it, I need a reliable phone, not one that craps out a couple months after I drop $500 on it. The numbers of malfunctioning Tilts/Tytn IIs seem quite high or am I wrong?
I've come to you, oh wise ones, seeking your counsel learned from many hours of alternately cursing and lauding the HTC name, no doubt.
I need a phone that offers me some productivity, email, messaging, multimedia (mostly, I'd like to be able to listen to music). It must have wifi. I would prefer it not drive me to putting my head through a wall. It would be nice if it had a gps receiver (like the Tilt and the N95) as I would like to run garmin mobile on it but could deal with using an external receiver on the Wing, if it turned out to be the best phone for me.
The reason I love the Tilt and Wing models is primarily the keyboard and touch screen. However, the problems people are having with HTC products have left me quite leery of buying one of their phones. Which is why I was also looking at the N95, most of it's reviews have been favourable although the learning curve to get it to the right level of productivity with 3rd party apps seems steeper. I've had Nokia phones before though- those Finnish build for Vikings, I guess. Never had one of those crap out on me.
Anyhow, I've rambled enough. Any advice or information you might want to throw at me would be appreciated. Thank you so much

My thoughts....
Given what you are after, I would stay with the Wing or Tilt. While I don't own a Tilt, I have used it a fair amount and I can see where reliability could be an issue. If that is a concern, the Wing (or Herald / P4350) has proven to be a very reliable phone (passed my "Wife" test ). It does not have built in GPS or 3G and the processor is slower, but I think you would be happy with it.
I hate the N95. It is a good (not as good as I expected from the "Carl Z" lens and 5MP) camera, good music player and good reception phone, but most of the other functions suck - IMO. The two way slider drives me crazy because if you accidentally slide open the media controls the screen goes to landscape and the only way to change it back is to slide the keypad section up and then back down.
Personally I like the Touch XL (Elfin). It is SOOO much smaller and lighter than the Tilt and Wing and really the only thing you loose from the Wing is the hard keyboard. There are some great soft keyboards avail. for the Touch that allow me to type just as fast on it as my other devices with the keyboard. Take a look at some of them that I have customized in my signature, for example.
Good luck!

You know, I haven't looked too much at the Touch models. I suppose I just figured if I was willing to go the soft keyboard route, I would take my chances with an unlocked iPhone. I figured I would either get my qwerty keyboard or give it up entirely. There seem to be a few variations of the Touch, and you recommend the XL? I shall have to do some research.
The camera features on the phones are the lowest on my list of needs. More of a bonus than a necessity. Nokia has splashed the Carl Zeiss name all over those N Series phones but at the end of the day, a camera phone is a phone, not a dedicated camera and will always fall short for me as I play with dSLRs, so most of the time I just don't bother with the camera on my phone.

Tilt.........

There have been several threads on this...
in a nutshell, if you need great multimedia / (even 3d hardware accelerated) gaming / call recording / camera / a great phone / being light and small, get the N95. If you need Windows Mobile / a touchscreen / a strcitly built-in keyboard and don't need gaming / multimedia / a good camera / call recoridng capabilities etc. and the much higher weight isn't a problem either, get the Kaiser.
I myself would go for the N95 but that's just because I already have the iPAQ 214 as a WinMo handheld (with which the N95 works together very well) and I use the MM features and the camera (which is just great) of the N95 a lot. But that's me.

I realize there have been several threads on this, but what wasn't fully addressed was the reliability issue. There were more than a few threads on this very site that made the Kaiser sound like a rather lovely, briefly useful, piece of crap.
I suppose I'm wondering how likely it is to die on me (I really haven't been able to find out anything solid on how many/often they malfunction) and for those people that did have it die on them, why did you keep going back for more?
The reason the Wing was in the running (in spite of not having all the featues of the Tilt) is that I haven't read of any huge reliability issue with it as with the Tilt.
So I suppose my question is being posed to those people who have had problems. Would you actually still recommend this phone? (If there is somewhere else I should have posted this, please let me know).

HTC Fuze vs iPhone

I am about to get a new phone and it's down to these two. I'm pretty familiar with the iPhone. It's nice, but doesn't do many of the things I would like, plus I can't stand the thought of a locked down device. What I do like is the great internet experience and the speed of the UI. I have been looking at the Fuze for a while and have some questions.
What GPS options are you using?
Any way to remove the AT&T junk?
If I get a cooked ROM (I barely know what that is right now), does it void the warranty? And can I download the original ROM to reflash back to original?
Any way to lock the touchscreen and front buttons to avoid accidentally answering the phone?
Did someone reallyfigure out how to turn off the PTT button?
What do you not like about the Fuze?
Thanks in advance!

HTC WM6.1 phone vs. iPhone
I have both HTC phone and Iphone...
The iphone is a great device, if you are a teenager and most of your use is text message buddies, play games, surf the net etc. I would certainly enjoy one like it if I am on vacation in the US. The iPhone is locked to AT&T only, so if you are going overseas, like I do from time to time, your iphone becomes either a brick, or a $$$ hungry device if you dare use it and pay roaming.
My 14 years old enjoys my iphone a lot. It's cool. it's fun, it looks good, and it is important when you are 14...
Now if you buy it for business and for connectivity with an office, then the unlocked cooked roms are the answer. Yes, warranty is an issue if you use a cooked ROM, but there is always a way to put back the AT&T stock ROM. So unless you have failed the phone in a manner one can not re flash it, it is not a big deal. Flashing the phone is quite easy and the wiki on this forum is very helpful. For your GPS questions- you can use TomTom or iGO. Assuming you buy them, there is no monthly charge after. By using a cooked ROM the AT&T junk is no longer there, and as far as applications to load, well, it's a WM phone. Connectivity to OFFICE package is superb, and there isn't an application in the PC world that you can't find a PPC version of it (almost, anyways).
Locking screen and keys is simple, with high 3D graphics. Look around on the forum and you will find few.
PTT button works IF you pay AT&T for the servie. No one I know uses it. We all reprogramm this hard key to do something else. I don't think there is a real need for a PTT service (Nextel like) unless it is a company phone and there are a bunch of guys wanting their own channel of communications.
HTC , by definition, came up with a bunch of cool phones. Very reliable, long lasting, with nifty features. The good news is WM7 is around the corner, so it is going to be even better...
Enjoy your new phone, whatever you choose to have. this post is just one opinion, but you ask an unbiased opinion in the WM forum... none here is really crazy about the iphone...

Thanks. I'm a long way from 14. I will use it for some business (anyone know how to get Lotus Notes on this thing?), but mostly as a phone, some texting, some multimedia, personal email, and some internet surfing. Pretty mixed bag. This will be my first smartphone, so there will be some learning curve. I'm not a big fan of the iPhone, but it's more of distrust of how Apple handles things and the total loackdown they have on the device. We have several Apple products in our house, the wife loves them. Me, not so much. Nice stuff, I just prefer more choices in how I use my hardware.

if you are wanting to customize like you say you are, then yes you will want the touch pro. you will just need time to sit down and do some reading.
Yes you can remove att's bloatware, you will just need to flash a new rom.
ROM means read only memory it basically is just everything they will stay on your phone when you hard reset. A clean version of a rom would be something you would get directly from microsoft. But lets say you by a laptop from dell or hp, they will give you all kinds of crap that doesn't really have to do with the operating environment. You will get dell-ware or hp-ware.
Basically by flashing a rom you just have a choice in what you want on your ppc, there are all kinds of flavors of roms everything from the bare minimals of the phone to even run (super-clean) or a multimedia rich rom (there are even roms based around programs like manilla, throttlelauncher, htc home, ect)
Yes flashing a rom will void your warranty if its not an official Rom, but you can revert back to send in for warranty purposes.
The touch pro has an accelerometer (motion sensor). just one reason to go with the fuze over the x1.
Customize, customize, customize. Thats what we all do with our phones. My friends tells me i seem to have a new phone everytime i see them. All of this just takes some reading and may look daunting at first but you will get the hang of it quick enough.
let me know when you pick up your touch pro if you need some help on where to start.
----One more thing windows mobile7 is a little way out but wm6.5 should be out soon (which will be almost windows mobile 7 minus integration of zune)

Coming from a fuze owner...
I know this thread is somewhat old, but it's the third result if you search Google for "iphone vs. htc fuze," and I'd like to add my two cents for anyone else who has to make this choice.
I recently used my upgrade and got a Fuze. Before doing this, I did my research and read the comments about it being slow and clunky with the stock ROM, but that you had the ability to change almost anything with cooked roms, different applications, etc. I'm a pretty tech savvy guy, so I didn't think I would mind. After weeks of trying to decide between the Fuze and the iPhone (with some consideration of the bb Bold), I sucked it up and got the Fuze.
I'm somewhat happy about my decision. Hardware-wise, the phone is amazing. The slide out QWERTY keyboard is awesome (although the keys are a little crammed), the phone looks slick IMO, and the weight is decent; it feels like it could take a little abuse. The camera is nice, the reception (even stock) is nice, etc.
Software-wise, the phone is quite clunky. I know it's been said to death, but Windows Mobile is an awful operating system. Some of the features that I like (e.g., the file explorer, 'right clicking,' and text selection) are wonderful; however, WM6.1 is not designed for touch. TouchFLO3D is nice, but it's just the outer coating. Once you touch the screen to read more texts, go to the file explorer, etc., however, you have to enter WM6.1 again.
I have also heard comments about there being a ton of applications for Windows Mobile. This is true, however, now that the iPhone is out, there has been a HUGE push to develop apps for that platform (e.g., better AIM clients, Facebook mobile, online banking, etc). The applications are in one place and easier to access (app store) and are more user-friendly/fun. Certain programs are also integrated better with the iPhone (e.g., Google Maps)
Opera Mobile (for internet browsing) is alright on the Fuze. It's better than the options for Blackberrys, but the iPhone has it completely beat in this department. Many sites don't work without a little tweaking (e.g., Google News), and some sites don't work at all (Bank of America online banking). I did notice that some sites will work if you switch over to Internet Explorer, but that's a pain.
I feel like HTC completely wasted their hardware on this. It would be an excellent phone if it ran on Android or even on their own OS.
The only type of person I can recommend this phone to is a business user who sends out a lot of emails, but doesn't like the Blackberry style keyboard.
If you're a business user and don't mind, get a Blackberry. It's the corporate standard. Even Obama has one!
If you are:
a consumer
a mac-user
someone who wants the best mobile internet experience
or just someone who wants to have fun with their phone right off the bat, and not have to completely tweak it
get the iPhone, G1 (another phone made by HTC), or Palm Pre when it comes out.
I don't completely hate the phone, I just dislike it enough to suck up the $20 restocking fee and get a new phone (probably an iphone).

I see how old this is... but after i got the red light of death on my tilt and its out of warranty... 376 bucks is a waste of cash for a known problem and crappy battery life. I thought about the Fuze but HTC pissed me off. I'm gonna get the iPhone hopefully it has a better battery so i dont have to charge it every night like my tilt! if not ill go old school and get a rzr... lol... thank you XDA it was fun while it lasted and i got alot of help along with ;earning really cool things about wm 6.1... peace

I am not using the Fuze but I am using the Kaiser, my wife uses the Hermes, and all our kids have the I-Phone. I borrow their I-Phones from time to time. Here are my observations.
I-Phone
The I-Phone is very slick. The best thing about the I-Phone is its size, weight, the size of the screen, and the simplicity of use. There's not a slicker more carefully designed phone out there. Anyone can use it with little trouble. It's very dependable. You ask then, "Why aren't you using an I-Phone"?
Windows Mobile Phone
I'm not using the I-Phone for several reasons. I'm a businessman. I have literally thousands of contacts on my phone. I can access them more quickly on my Kaiser than I can on the I-Phone. The Kaiser's QWERTY is flat out faster than typing on the screen (although one of my sons can type nearly as fast as I can on his I-Phone because of his thin fingers).
When I need information, I need it fast. When I'm in a meeting someone needs to find an address or anything on the web, I beat the I-Phone users to the punch all the time. Time is money.
I do speed tests with both the Kaiser and the I-Phone. The results on the two types of phones from our home are about the same on dslreports.com. However, I can get to the information I want faster with IE than I can with Safari. Yes, Safari on the I-Phone is great but I have to let the page load then blow up a portion of the page and move it around. This takes time.
3G signal is another area where the HTC phone beats the I-Phone. The HTC phones seem to pick up 3G signals in more places than the I-Phone. This may change as I-Phones improve. Just my observations.
I love the integration of Word, Excel, Power Point, etc, with WM6.1 It works very well.
There are still many things the I-phone cannot do.
1) There's no cut and paste. Yea, I know it's coming. But how well will it work.
2) It cannot handle adobe .pdf files. I get these sent to me all the time in emails. They're almost always business related. I can read them and respond quickly where ever I am.
3) There's no stereo bluetooth so one has to look like the retards Apple shows on its commercials bouncing around to the music wearing wired earphones. I use my stereo bluetooth headsets all the time with my HTC phones. I can listen to music and not miss any important calls. I can walk all over my office with the phone in my office and still get calls.
4) I can use my HTC phones on several networks in the U.S. and elsewhere.
5) There's no removable memory or batteries. The EU will force Apple to make I-Phones with removable batteries. But I still like being able to keep certain data on a storage card.
6) The charger the I-Phone uses is proprietary. I like fact that the HTC devices use a standard USB charger.
In conclusion, the I-Phone is definitely a game changing device. It's a great device for kids, the elderly, and those who won't or cannot become computer savvy. Eventually, the I-phone may catch up to the HTC devices to the point I'd consider one.
The fact of the matter is that the HTC devices are more powerful devices and are especially more powerful for the business user.

New new mine

Hello peeps I need some advice. I have ventured away from WM for an iphone and I love it but I sure do miss my former toy. I am thinking of buying an AT&T fuze to play with in addition to my iPhone but I get some mixed reviews. Is there really a better WM option for me or is the fuze the best I'm gona get right now? I have heard of diamond screen deaths so I ruled out an unlocked diamond and I have tried to research some but I keep coming back to the fuze. Any suggestions would be great.
Ps money doesn't really matter
I just want another toy

Fuze for sure... read the review on Boygeniusreport.com... the At&t Fuze Vs. Xperia X1... these are the two WM monsters right now and the fuze beats it on price (which i know doesnt matter), Wi-Fi reception and backlighting on the keyboard... I LOVE MY FUZE i would definantly recommend one... i have had 0 Problems with mine

jd885 said:
Fuze for sure... read the review on Boygeniusreport.com... the At&t Fuze Vs. Xperia X1... these are the two WM monsters right now and the fuze beats it on price (which i know doesnt matter), Wi-Fi reception and backlighting on the keyboard... I LOVE MY FUZE i would definantly recommend one... i have had 0 Problems with mine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. I love my FUZE. I tried for other WM devices but cannot make my mind to go with any other WM device (may be HD but does not have keyboard).

Of course 99% of the people in here are going to love it so we're a bit biased but I'll try to be honest.
Stock from ATT there were a few gripes I had but some simple tweaks I learned here fixed most of them. But there are a things that are still a little bit annoying.
-The whole phone is a glossy fingerprint magnet. It's pretty till you touch it, you'll spend alot of time wiping it on your sleeve to keep the screen clear.
-The direction pad sucks at going left or right. Even when you know where the sweet spot is you still hit "home" or "back" enough to make game playing with the d-pad impossible.
-I hate how HTC never puts a 3.5mm headset jack on most their phones. Using an adapter isn't a big deal but it's annoying.
Luckily I don't play alot of games, and all phones attract fingerprints so it's something you'll probably be used to anyway. The last issue I have is my video playback with TCPMP is really bad right now but I believe its a driver issue I just haven't sorted yet.
Regardless of the above issues the Fuze is the best. If anybody gave me a free iPhone, xperia, omnia, storm or whatever I'd sell it and get a Fuze.

i think what i am really missing is slingbox my iphone cant do that yet...but still i love to tinker and i can do that on my iphone it is a much much much better experienc on wm phone.....thouch hd does not have us 3g or i would get that for sure also with the fuze i can just run down the street and get it whenever i want...also the finger print thing i am used to with iphone so no big deal....i had a kaiser is slingbox any better with fuze being vga?

Kerensky97 said:
Of course 99% of the people in here are going to love it so we're a bit biased but I'll try to be honest.
Stock from ATT there were a few gripes I had but some simple tweaks I learned here fixed most of them. But there are a things that are still a little bit annoying.
-The whole phone is a glossy fingerprint magnet. It's pretty till you touch it, you'll spend alot of time wiping it on your sleeve to keep the screen clear.
-The direction pad sucks at going left or right. Even when you know where the sweet spot is you still hit "home" or "back" enough to make game playing with the d-pad impossible.
Luckily I don't play alot of games, and all phones attract fingerprints so it's something you'll probably be used to anyway. The last issue I have is my video playback with TCPMP is really bad right now but I believe its a driver issue I just haven't sorted yet.
Regardless of the above issues the Fuze is the best. If anybody gave me a free iPhone, xperia, omnia, storm or whatever I'd sell it an get a Fuze.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
after about a month with my iphone 3g i can honestly say i aint going no place...i love it....it will always be first...kinda like having the hottest chick around sometimes you want to play with something different

Not sure what the point was for this thread, but i'm closing it. There are plenty of reviews and discussion available to help you make your decision. "best (fill in the blank)" threads are not very useful and generally closed quickly.

Why ‘o’ why will they not learn

After owning HTC phones now for over 3 years, when will HTC start listening to people on forums like this one and htcpedia.com, then start making phones with the features that we are asking & waiting for. And just as important when will they start making accessories for these phones. Now owning a Touch HD for over a year I was looking at getting the new HD2, but it appears the mini usb port still does not support music or porting video through it (this is also true on the Touch HD yes I was disappointed when I found out). I would also like to have a built in FM transmitter. I think HTC are missing out on a great future for their phones.
Jez
P.S come on HTC sit up and take notice.

Contact HTC, if there are enough requests, they'll perhaps listen to you. Better than crying here .

Livven said:
Contact HTC, if there are enough requests, they'll perhaps listen to you. Better than crying here .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello Livven
Not crying just disappointed with HTC and thinking maybe it’s time to change, to a phone producer that is listening ,it appears that’s exactly what apple are doing. Been in touch with HTC direct about a month after I got the Touch HD asking them to include certain things on the next model and a year later the HD2 was launched which appears to be a big screen HD with no more capabilities.
Cheers jez

I got tired of HTC's short-sightedness and bought an iPhone. It's a nice phone but it doesn't have nearly the feature set of a WinMo phone and Apple is a total pain in the ass. I'm still not thrilled about HTC so I just bought the LG Expo and, as I write this, I'm boxing it up to return it to AT&T. The hardware specs look pretty good but there are just too many things wrong with this phone that can't be overlooked. To start with, the UI is just awful. The bland, painful Microsoft stock UI is actually easier to deal with, in my opinion. It takes a dozen taps to do almost anything and you really need a stylus to get anything done. Which leads to problem #2...the stylus. It's like a little tube of lipstick which also means it's not attached to the phone. I wonder how many days would take before it got lost? You can attach it via a little string but it's beyond stupid that this got past QA. Then there's the GPS. It comes with AT&T's GPS app but I have my own that I've used for quite some over on a variety of phones without a problem. It will not recognize the GPS in the Expo, however, and therefore won't work. Strike three, you're outta here. So as I mentioned, I'm boxing it up and taking it back either for a refund or, if they'll do it, a trade for the Tilt 2 or something from...sigh....HTC. Despite some of the dumb things they do on occasion, HTC is still the best WinMo phone manufacturer I know of.

Hello markgamber
I know where you are coming from I had the Samsung Omnia last year for a month and sent it back because it was crap, it had the same idea for the stylus as well, a piece of string to attach it to the phone. Maybe Iphone is not the way to go then. It’s I’m getting politely frustrated with spending a small fortune on phones that do only half of what I want it to do. That’s the thing, these manufactures forget these phones aren’t cheap to us, it just seems to me they are thick and they think they know what we want . I know what I want on my phone
1. winmo
2. gps for satnav
3. fm transmitter
4. tv out.
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station
6. 3.5mm headphone socket
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up
And so the storey goes on. Hopefully someone from HTC will read our thoughts and do something about it for the next model. If they do read these comments email me HTC and I will let you know what we want from our £500 phones. Bloody hell more money for a phone than a high spec laptop

markgamber said:
I got tired of HTC's short-sightedness and bought an iPhone. It's a nice phone but it doesn't have nearly the feature set of a WinMo phone and Apple is a total pain in the ass. I'm still not thrilled about HTC so I just bought the LG Expo and, as I write this, I'm boxing it up to return it to AT&T. The hardware specs look pretty good but there are just too many things wrong with this phone that can't be overlooked. To start with, the UI is just awful. The bland, painful Microsoft stock UI is actually easier to deal with, in my opinion. It takes a dozen taps to do almost anything and you really need a stylus to get anything done. Which leads to problem #2...the stylus. It's like a little tube of lipstick which also means it's not attached to the phone. I wonder how many days would take before it got lost? You can attach it via a little string but it's beyond stupid that this got past QA. Then there's the GPS. It comes with AT&T's GPS app but I have my own that I've used for quite some over on a variety of phones without a problem. It will not recognize the GPS in the Expo, however, and therefore won't work. Strike three, you're outta here. So as I mentioned, I'm boxing it up and taking it back either for a refund or, if they'll do it, a trade for the Tilt 2 or something from...sigh....HTC. Despite some of the dumb things they do on occasion, HTC is still the best WinMo phone manufacturer I know of.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi Mark
I hear your frustration about the eXpo....I bought a IQ from Telus (the Canadian version of the eXpo) and really didn't like the UI AT FIRST. But the phone has really grown on me. Maybe you should consider keeping it for a couple of weeks, and then giving it back if you still want to.
1) I now find I am figuring out the UI and I am starting to like it. Using Throttle Launcher(free) or Spd Shell($) are both options that are very similar to the TF3D or Sence UI if you really find you want to abandon the S Class UI but I would say try it for a week or two and you may like it...there are things you can do faster than TF3D as well as slower.
2) The stylus situation really sucks. No argument. I have found that after I set my phone up, I can get by without one especially when you figure out how to use the optical mouse functions.
3) GPS I am on Telus, so maybe AT&T has screwed you, but my Garmin Mobile XT software works just fine on my Telus phone. I did have to play a bit though. I installed the Garmin software, and it couldn't find the GPS. I then went into the windows settings, and set up the phone to use COM port 4, and then went into the Garmin setup and selected COM4. STILL no joy. But I then changed the Windows setting back to controlled by windows, and the Garmin software found a "GPS Intermediate Driver". Works great! Locks FAST, and no lag like when I used the Garmin Mobile XT on my Touch Pro.
I have installed Opera Beta 2U, and it with the HSPDA data and the snapdragon it is simply is the best mobile internet experience I have ever used or seen.
Good luck with you Phone hunting,

Hi jez.stix
I have a similar list to you...I got a Telus IQ (Its a Canadian eXpo)
How the IQ compares to your list:
1. winmo
YUP 6.5 (21868)
2. gps for satnav YUP - but check into this (See above ATT may have locked to there software)
3. fm transmitter YUP....sorry! Read this as receiver, Has a FM receiver but no transmitter to go to your car stereo..
4. tv out. YUP
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station ...not sure what you mean here..if you mean like all the docking stuff they sell at Walmart for IPhones..NOPE..of course it has a USB connection.
6. 3.5mm headphone socket NOPE
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works YUP..works quite well with flash
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up YUP OH YAH BIG TIME
The real down side is that it is not a HTC unit so XDA won't support it the way they do a HTC product. I decided I could live with that but that was the hardest pill to swallow. The build quallity is heads and shoulders above my old HTC Touch Pro
good luck in finding your dream phone.

jez.stix said:
Hello markgamber
I know where you are coming from I had the Samsung Omnia last year for a month and sent it back because it was crap, it had the same idea for the stylus as well, a piece of string to attach it to the phone. Maybe Iphone is not the way to go then. It’s I’m getting politely frustrated with spending a small fortune on phones that do only half of what I want it to do. That’s the thing, these manufactures forget these phones aren’t cheap to us, it just seems to me they are thick and they think they know what we want . I know what I want on my phone
1. winmo
2. gps for satnav
3. fm transmitter
4. tv out.
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station
6. 3.5mm headphone socket
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up
And so the storey goes on. Hopefully someone from HTC will read our thoughts and do something about it for the next model. If they do read these comments email me HTC and I will let you know what we want from our £500 phones. Bloody hell more money for a phone than a high spec laptop
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The iPhone is actually pretty nice, I just had a couple technical problems with it and, being a dev, I grew really tired of Apple dictating what I can and can't do with my phone and my apps. The most notable thing about the iPhone is that it's fast. When you start a program, it's up and running in short order and stays fast unless it has to do something really intensive or relies on a slow network connection. This being opposed to WinMo where it can sometimes take forever to do anything. This is, of course, because the iPhone doesn't do much real multitasking but if that's not an issue, then the iPhone probably warrants a look. Another problem I had was that most of the world uses WMV/WMA for streaming audio and video and the iPhone not only doesn't support it, Apple has stated that it won't approve anything that does support it. Sometimes you can get around that using Orb but not always and that leads to the third big problem I had with the iPhone, Apple's little tinpot dictator attitude. I've been using Slingplayer for years on WinMo phones and yes, AT&T says you can't use it but the practical side is that as long as you're not an a-hole about it, they don't really care. The bottom line is that I can make the choice about whether or not I want to use it. iPhone's Slingplayer simply doesn't have the option to work over 3G. In fact, the only app of that kind which did was Orb and, as I hear it, Orb Networks just removed it on orders from AT&T and Apple. Technically yes, you can jailbreak the iPhone, install a hack that fools programs into thinking 3G is wifi and those various programs work, but it's a hack and not something you can count on working with the next system update since Apple is working hard to prevent those kinds of hacks from working. Plus they're starting to be exploited by hackers of a less than friendly nature. The iPhone also didn't support what I considered some basic functionality such as cut/copy/paste, MMS and bluetooth audio, for quite some time. When Apple finally decided to include that functionality, they acted as though they invented it. That continues today with the lack of quite a bit of multimedia types, refusal to allow Flash or any browser other than Safari, any kind of advanced bluetooth functionality, multitasking and so on. Again, if you don't care about any of the above, you should probably take a look at the iPhone if only for comparison. It's also *VERY* finger friendly, much moreso than WinMo, and you don't like having to wield a stylus at all, I'd definitely take a look at the iPhone.
I don't know why these WinMo companies are so slow to adopt things that seem like basic functionality to many users but they do improve their products, albiet slowly at times, and they're still a magnitude better than the competition, in my opinion. The HTC Titan sold by Sprint was, without a doubt, the worse piece of garbage I ever owned. HTC actually had the balls to put a measly 128mb of ram in there, put WinMo 6 on it and then let Sprint add all it's worthless slop to it. The bottom line was that it took half a day to boot and when it was finally done, it left somewhere between 8 and 12mb free...not even enough to run Slingplayer. Sprint charged $600 for that chunk of s*it and when I raised hell about it, Sprint not only refused to take it back, they wouldn't even cut me a break on what I had to buy to replace it. That's why I'm now with AT&T. So HTC (and other companies) do improve their products. One valuable thing about the Titan was that I learned to buy a phone for what it can do, not what it's capable of doing.
That's my main problem with the Expo and why I returned it. On paper it's a nice phone and there's a lot of potential in the hardware that is either unrealized or lost in the mess LG slapped together. Hopefully LG improves the system over time but right now it's pretty awful, in my opinion, and no update will ever help that poorly implemented stylus and, most likely, the poor battery life.

htc response
thanks for your email. You are correct, The HD and HD2 do not have TV out. Only the Touch PR line of devices has TV out for using with presentations and the like. The TV Out function was not highly requested in the market research that we did, so we concentrated on what the request were mostly for...larger screen, multitouch, standard 3.5mm jack etc. TV out was very far down on the list of wanted features. As for the music abilities, the only thing i know of that was removed on the HD2 was the remote control. This has returned on the HD2 as we needed to develop one that worked with the standard 3.5 jack that the majority of our customers wanted. This was the only thing removed from the HD. We think we must be doing something right as we are selling more handsets than ever, and winning lots of awards for our handsets as well. However, obviously you cannot please everyone, and if we have failed to meet your needs then i apologise, and hope that whatever device you choose, whether it be one of ours or not, i hope that you will be happy with it and it is everything you want. Best regards, Pete W HTC

I once contacted HTC about their lack of attention to this site.
The response i got made a lot of sense sadly.
Because of all the ROMs made on here and all the software that we reverse engineer from them and others, they cannot associate themselves with us at all due to illegality.
But still, this being the case, I think they could still use this site as a good place to do market research upon. Just because xda-devs is the largest collection of winmo users in one place that I know of, it seems to be the perfect place for them to go to see what their end users want.
I am a designer myself and it seems stupid to ignore the biggest resource of research and ideas.

Fuze/Touch-Pro vs Iphone: What was your deciding factor

Just wondering why you chose Fuze/Touch-pro over Iphone.
For me 3 major reasons in order of importance:
Size: I just cannot accept the size of an Iphone. I believe in a small device with great capabilities that will nicely fit in my pocket.
Bluetooth Stereo: Bluetooth A2DP support was NOT native to Iphone at that time. Did not want to add and an UGLY connector to get bluetooth music streaming either
Not an Iphone fan boy: Never carried an Ipod nor had a Mac. Its too overrated and is more of a fashion statement. I just cant see the cool factor in Apple products.
Whats your reason?

#1: this forum
#2: can't type texts without a hardware keyboard when i'm drunk
#3: tp is my 3rd htc phone

price would also be a factor
iphones without a tariff is a lot more expensive then a touch pro without a tariff

Welll, in random order
#: xda-devs support
#: custom roms
#: HTC user since 2005
#: size and h/w keyboard
and most of all
#: never was a fan of (maybe powerful but) overrated trendy devices over powerful business ones, end of story.
iPhone may be a "powerful" device, which can provide a similar experience to WM (or even better, that's a subjective matter). However the fact that the device itself is locked, and does not allow you to experience it fully (and I mean things which are supposed to be standard in smartphones, like multitasking) without jailbreaking it, tells me one thing and one thing only: that Apple does not respect it's customers.

For me it was a matter of carrier, and the 5-way navigator, because aside from those factors my Touch Pro is almost the same as an iPhone anyways with all the skins and mods

1. iPhone is 44% higher than my Touch Pro discounted Sprint monthly Everything Plan.
2. iPhone doesn't have a physical keyboard vs. huge Touch Pro keys.
3. iPhone has zero customability. "There's an app for that" means nothing to me. Energy 6.5 with Sense2.5 ROM means a whole lot more.

Sadly I feel the opposite way. I'm thinking of selling my Fuze just because support for it sucks lets face it. Theres no where near the amount of developers for windows mobile as there is for the iphone. I find myself using my ipod touch way more than my fuze and the only thing I cant do on my ipod is make calls. Sure theres no hardware keyboard and its nice to have one but I could live without. One thing that kills me the most is the screen, its almost unbearable using my phone after I use my ipod but thats to be expected since they're different tech. But over all I find myself not liking my phone more and more everyday and I dont think its going to change. I think Im going to submit to apple with the next refresh of the iphone simply because Apple is the juggernaut of smart phones at this time. Until they find a way to standardize android its not going to shine, I truly think fragmentation is going to kill it and if it doesn't kill it, it will always be that other OS. And WP7 is a mess. For one I dont have a Facebook or any other social networking crap, nor do I have an xbox so all that integration is useless to me. Not to mention that the UI looks terrible. But thats my look on things and unfortunately the way things keep going I dont think its going to change.

VibrantRedGT said:
3. iPhone has zero customability. "There's an app for that" means nothing to me. Energy 6.5 with Sense2.5 ROM means a whole lot more.
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^^^^THIS^^^^
nagle3092 said:
Sadly I feel the opposite way. I'm thinking of selling my Fuze just because support for it sucks lets face it. Theres no where near the amount of developers for windows mobile as there is for the iphone. I find myself using my ipod touch way more than my fuze and the only thing I cant do on my ipod is make calls. Sure theres no hardware keyboard and its nice to have one but I could live without. One thing that kills me the most is the screen, its almost unbearable using my phone after I use my ipod but thats to be expected since they're different tech. But over all I find myself not liking my phone more and more everyday and I dont think its going to change. I think Im going to submit to apple with the next refresh of the iphone simply because Apple is the juggernaut of smart phones at this time. Until they find a way to standardize android its not going to shine, I truly think fragmentation is going to kill it and if it doesn't kill it, it will always be that other OS. And WP7 is a mess. For one I dont have a Facebook or any other social networking crap, nor do I have an xbox so all that integration is useless to me. Not to mention that the UI looks terrible. But thats my look on things and unfortunately the way things keep going I dont think its going to change.
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I'm sorry.....but April fools was on the 1st.
For myself it's all of what this guy says (from 3:40-4:00) in this iphone review "The Gadget Show" on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bumP10hUaVs, and more.
When I think of iphone...I can't help of think of the Will Smith movie iRobot. I have thoughts of Apple trying to brain wash me into thinking that it's the only phone I need and I don't need to think for myself because "there's an app for that". It want's me to drop my guard and completely trust that it can run my life with only finger swipes across the screen yet.....it will not let me have a close relationship with by shutting me out of it's inner workings (battery replacement, removable storage). It try's to keep me hanging by a thread just strong enough to stay attached for a new version with "innovative" abilities like "copy and paste". It's true colors are hard to see through it's colorful ads and apps.

1: size
2: its need to always be on the net
3: can't sync calendar, contacts w/out using iTunes, which I cannot stand
4: can't multitask apps
I have both a fuze and an iPhone 3G (from my son when he moved to 3Gs.) Both phones are jail broken, so I decided to use the iPhone with an international SIM while traveling. I was really (&**&(*^( t'd off when I noticed that it always connects, thus incurring international data roaming charges. There's no way to make it not "call home" for one reason or another (checking if there's something new in app store, etc.) unless you tweak connectivity, block almost every app, or install some "firewall" to block all traffic. That just sucks if you travel a lot. ATT warned me, but I didn't think it was that bad.

International roaming data charges are nothing to mess with. I've never used an iphone, but I've heard that many of the apps are web-based widgets. One of the problems with not having things like a native file explorer is that if you download an app, you can't look in program files to see what the hell you just downloaded. You'd know if it was just a web app on winmo pretty easily, but I'm sure it's hard to keep track of everything loaded on an iphone.

I went from an iphone 3G to a Fuze to a 3GS to a Tilt2 back to a Fuze with a Bold 9000 in there at some point as well.
I can't do without the physical keypad. I email on the go a lot with my phone, and I just can't get used to virtual keyboards. Just can't do it. I'm also a sports nut, so browser navigating ability needs to be on point, meaning I need a touch screen. Now, I'll admit the iPhone's capacative touch screen beats the hell out of the pressure sensitive ones, although they'll get a lot better with some of the tweaks and ROMs available. There's no lag when you use the iphone's screen (although the newest ROMs for the Fuze have done a great job closing that gap, but it's still very much present). I miss that and the myriad of apps.
I really do hate Apple, what they did with the priority bandwidth with AT&T, and the fact they can't and absolutely won't support flash, along with that internal battery and no storage card. They could easily provide these features, but they don't simply because they don't HAVE to in order to sell the product. But, the iphone does what it does incredibly well. I'll concede to that.
I went back to the Fuze from my Tilt2 because I was pretty pissed that the hardware wasn't really upgraded much between those models. That was an unpleasant surprise. Also, the Fuze is SOLID. It's a beast, the tracks don't have tight tolerances, and the case is thick with robust corners. Plus, the Android development for the Fuze seemed to be further along than for the Tilt2. Also, when typing on the hardware keyboard for the Raphael, your thumbs do all the moving, and your hands don't. The Rhodium's bigger layout is nicer in that you hit the wrong key much less; however, you're moving your hands a lot too. I didn't like that. ROMs are also getting ridiculously good for WinMo devices.
Let's be honest; what the iPhone does, it does incredibly well, and if I didn't have needs (HW keypad) that it didn't meet, I would still have it, even though the Apple logo itself makes me want to kill a hippie every time I see it.

1. I'm used to Windows Mobile, having used it on a PDA for several years
2. Getting a refurbished Fuze through AT&T with an Employee Purchase and a 2 year contract brought the price of the Fuze down to a rather attractive $0.
Fate was kind to me. I'm glad to have stumbled upon the Fuze.

Mainly the Hardware Keyboard, but all-in-all, I simply love HTC devices.
Oh, and the Hardware Specs were actually pretty good for the Fuze, not the best, but for a device with a hardware keyboard, not bad.

I originally bought my Fuze because of the hardware keyboard. 6 months later, I bought an iPhone 3GS. I liked the Fuze for the most part, I just couldn't take WM anymore. With the stock firmware, my battery would not last a day. Timlol's stock like firmware made the battery life bearable and the device much more usable. But in the end, it was the limitations of WM that made me switch. It is nice having a browser that works, a mail client that can display messages and not move to the next message when you accidently move your finger sideways, a well stocked app store and a touchscreen that actually responds properly to touch.
I still have my Fuze and will use it to play around with the current Android project, but for day to day use as a phone and data device, the iPhone is it.

On your poll it was a hard toss-up between "Hate Apple products" and the "Other options (cooked ROMs, Android etc)".
My biggest factor was that it was more open to open source and cracked (aka free) software, and more moddifications that could be done to the firmware. The reason this could be done is because its not an Apple product.