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I won't lie. It's been hard avoiding getting the iphone. The number one feature I want is an app store full of crap I can impulse buy. I want to be out somewhere, bored, and be able to buy a video game or something. The number two most important feature I want is a good browser.
I've been holding out for the Fuze because I've traditionally always bought WM phones. I'm anxously awaiting WM7 because it potentially has a bunch of features I will be really excited about (ie. I am a Zune Pass subscriber, so I look forward to a Zune MP on WM phones) but I the commercials for the iphone keep teasing me... taunting me... telling me I can waste tons of time on it... I keep thinking I could buy the Iphone for use for the year and by the time WM7 comes out, there'll be all kinds of brand new WM7 ready phones that I could switch to.
I'll be honest with you, besides possibly erasing bloatware, I don't plan on doing a lot of modding or anything like that so that isn't important to me.
I want some honest opinions. Should I stand firm on my resolution to get the Fuze or should I take a dip in the iphone waters?
Reasons not to get an iPhoney
(in no particular order)
1. No MMS(picture messaging) when they say you can just email it to someone...how do you send a picture to your friend with a Razor? You can't
2.no Copy and paste(really, how did they leave out something so basic!)
3. can not shoot video (unless you jailbreak it, then you risk getting it killswitched)
4. can't listen to audio through bluetooth, so you can't pair a bluetooth headset to it, nor can you stream it to your cool car stereo(think MS sync in fords)
That's the 4 big ones off the top of my head, go read the iPhone bashing thread for more details.
My top 3 reasons not to get an iPhone:
1.no multitasking (its like I went back to the Palm OS days)
2.no copy and paste (very annoying as I need this for my day to day work)
3.no physical keyboard (Just cant get used to using on-screen keyboards. I like tactile feel of keyboards too much.)
I can list other reasons as to why but these are the main hurdles Apple will have to get over before I would ever consider one.
jblakk said:
Reasons not to get an iPhoney
(in no particular order)
1. No MMS(picture messaging) when they say you can just email it to someone...how do you send a picture to your friend with a Razor? You can't
2.no Copy and paste(really, how did they leave out something so basic!)
3. can not shoot video (unless you jailbreak it, then you risk getting it killswitched)
4. can't listen to audio through bluetooth, so you can't pair a bluetooth headset to it, nor can you stream it to your cool car stereo(think MS sync in fords)
That's the 4 big ones off the top of my head, go read the iPhone bashing thread for more details.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks but I've never send an MMS anyway, never thought lack of copy and paste was a HUGE deal, not being able shoot video does really suck, and not being able to listen to audio through bluetooth sounds sucky but I've never done it before anyway. Again, what really sucks is that there's no WM app store. Seriously. It's bugging me so much. And as I said, I expect WM7 will have one... but still... that's a year away and I'm impatient...
i have personally owned the new 3g....hated it, let me begin:
battery life sucks:
Why own a 3G iPhone if you have to turn 3G off in order to get a full day out of the battery. And if I even begain to turn the back light up a little then there goes the battery as well. I had one day that I charged teh phone 3 times (full times) to get through the day
you have to pay for apps:
I know you do with a lot of phones, but damn its like if you have an app market there needs to be more free. And almost all of the free one sucks. 1.99 here, 2.99 there add sup QUICK
price of the plan:
they rape everyone with the "iPhone" plan...whatever. I dont even need to say more.
Voicemail get erased:
when you get the "iphone plan" it erases your voicemail and you need to start it all up again. even if you have saved voicemails in it, BYE BYE....and they will not tell you this either
cannot download:
you cannot download ANYTHING on it. I had someone send me a file that I wanted to download onto my phone and run on a school computer that did not have internet hooked up to it. all it was was a .doc file....nope cannot do that
camera:
SUCKS. still in the 1999 era of "slightly better that vga"
acessories are $$$:
all the no name brand stuff is out there is cheap, and breaks easily. but then again a good incase costs almost $50...and then a screen protector is $15 for 2.
cannot copy and paste:
need i say more?
I can go on...
Get a G1, Android Market is sick, has plenty of applications now and it will grow very quickly.
Biggest reason for me not getting a iPhone was the lack of tethering.
(linking the phone to a laptop via say bluetooth so that the computer can use the phones internet connection)
I am a IT support guy and sometimes need to be able to ssh into servers, and tethering a phone is the way I was doing it at the time.
I then bought a HTC Touch Pro, and now do not even need a laptop, as I have pocketputty on the TP, it's great for a quick reboot/restart backup etc.
I'd not want to have to spend too long on the TP though, but it's great for freeing me to not have to lug everything round all the time.
GazzaK said:
Biggest reason for me not getting a iPhone was the lack of tethering.
(linking the phone to a laptop via say bluetooth so that the computer can use the phones internet connection)
I am a IT support guy and sometimes need to be able to ssh into servers, and tethering a phone is the way I was doing it at the time.
I then bought a HTC Touch Pro, and now do not even need a laptop, as I have pocketputty on the TP, it's great for a quick reboot/restart backup etc.
I'd not want to have to spend too long on the TP though, but it's great for freeing me to not have to lug everything round all the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tethering is coming soon for the iPhone:
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/11/06/confirmed-iphone-tethering-plan-making-its-way-to-att/
Black93300ZX said:
Tethering is coming soon for the iPhone:
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/11/06/confirmed-iphone-tethering-plan-making-its-way-to-att/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great, but... thats the US, it'll probably take ages to filter down to us in the UK
GazzaK said:
Great, but... thats the US, it'll probably take ages to filter down to us in the UK
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So jailbreak it and do it for free. I don't like the iPhone very much, but there are ways around most of its lack of features. Jailbreaking can you get MMS, video recording, tethering...
copy and paste...so on and so forth we hear it all with iphone not up to WM...but iphone runs very smooth video, games, music...its basically an easy everyday use...if u looking for a more advance normal phone, iphone is the way to go...but WM phone like myself i used it for alot more than making calls, theres things WM wish it can do like iphone and like wise...its just how u use it everyday...i have the itouch and a kaiser...itouch basically fun to watch movies and play games and music...but i can do that with WM phone as well...its just iphone u can get to those thing alot faster with a bunch of shortcut than WM phone, yea i can create short cut on WM as well but with iphone/itouch its just seem more suited for entertainment...i connect my WM to everything though from laptop to cars and share file with basically every device but iphone...pros and cons to everything...theres a reason why every new phone that comes out claim they are the iphone killer...70 percent of people that owns WM phones dont even know how to use the damn thing...but the other 30 percent knows wsup. sounds like u already know whats each is capable of so you gonna have to make this decision on ur own
Lol, those that say iPhone is a lot faster should turn off multitasking in WM. I just don't want to hear them guys complain that they can't multitask any more as I don't hear them complain about the lack of multitasking in the iPhone.
Another thing. For those that want an app store, they should search for the Gecko Project on this forum.
Let me tell you why you should get an iPhone and why you shouldn't. If all you do is basic browsing and listen to music on your phone you should get an iPhone. The browsing experience is still, hands down, the best experience...when it works. I get lots of crashes because it doesn't handle flash at all and mishandles java. But it only happens when I'm viewing a memory intensive or java based web page.
I cannot handle the iPhone anymore and will replace it with the Fuze when it releases for one main reason. No multi-tasking and no turn-by-turn. Despite the problems with WM, which they have many, everything "works" when I want it to. I don't have to worry about Opera mini or skyfire crashing because it can't handle basic flash. If a website doesn't completely work on Mini it just doesn't load properly, it doesn't take you 5 minutes to load just to crash to desktop.
The turn-by-turn is an interesting one but let me explain why it's such a big deal. TomTom has had iPhone software ready for months but can't release it because Apple denies anything from entering the app store that is in "competition" with the base iPhone software. That's why Opera isn't developing mini for the iPhone anymore. Apple is so concentrated on blocking people that it breeds an air of exclusivity, which Apple uses as a marketing tool. While Windows isn't exactly a saint in this category at least the users have fully unlocked phones to be used for whatever you want. And Microsoft will never try to stop basic programs (like TomTom) from creating software for their devices.
What Apple has missed is that the more good software that is available, regardless of what it competes against, the more likely people will buy their product.
Additional problems with the iPhone include:
-no copy/paste
-VERY bad battery life, and I've used lots of 3g phones to compare
-No way to completely turn off ALL sounds for apps etc
-have to jailbreak to tether or do any program worth mentioning
-have to use iTunes. I freaking hate iTunes!
-no file browser (unless you jailbreak)
-have to jailbreak to even get access to your file system
-no flash support....period
Now, to be fair I will post what I like about the iPhone:
-music player is VASTLY superior
-sound quality is VASTLY superior
-basic browsing is smooth and truly better
-3.5" screen is very nice
-slim
-finding the software available is easy (see above for negative!)
-3.5mm headphone jack (some WM devices have, not most HTC)
All-in-all, if you are a basic phone user (which most people that spend time on the site aren't) the iPhone is phenomenal. If you like to do anything with your phone beyond what comes standard, avoid it like the plague. Even with jailbroken your options are still pretty much limited.
I suggest getting a windows mobile phone and use it until Android is ported. With Haret you can run to operating systems until you decide which you like better.
I was in the same boat for about the last month and was heavily thinking I'd be buying an iPhone in December when my upgrade is available. I even was playing with a friends and had myself convinced.
Luckily I came to my senses and have decided to get the Fuze when I can. Granted, the touch screen on the iphone is more sensitive...but I've tried using multiple good onscreen touch keyboards on the tilt and the second you get past a few words and want to type quickly you'll be wishing you had a keyboard.
Also, as another user mentioned the app store can add up and there is a reason most apps are free...because they aren't great. For every 1 good app there are a zillion useless novelty apps that are fun for a few minutes but nothing more.
I used to not fall for the sealed battery excuse until recently my 6 month old ipod nano proved to me exactly why I should care. I am not one of the people that carries multiple batteries and needs to switch during the day...but...my ipod nano when you take it off the charger is immediately down 2 pixel width's of battery so it's not even 100% after a full charge. Now what happens when that happens to your phone...you schedule a week of vacation so you can ship it off and not worry about work or actually using it
iPhone is a toy. I had it for 2 months, then gave it to my wife and went back to the tilt. iPhone is a fun device but it is not functional enough.
TaurenSnake said:
1.no multitasking (its like I went back to the Palm OS days)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it does have multitasking. what it does not have is a task manager.
why TP and not iphone?
- QWERTY
- WM si more mature, more apps, more tweakable
- copy/paste
- more RAM
- higher res
- HSPDA
- BT is not limited to A2DP
- etc
However iphone has it's own pluses, such as: faster CPU, better GPU AFAIK, dynamic UI, etc
Take a look at the HTC Touch HD (youtube it). Now that is waaaaay better than the iPhone.
If you want a keyboard and a smaller phone (width & height) like me, can't beat the Touch Pro.
johndango said:
I won't lie. It's been hard avoiding getting the iphone. The number one feature I want is an app store full of crap I can impulse buy. I want to be out somewhere, bored, and be able to buy a video game or something. The number two most important feature I want is a good browser.
I've been holding out for the Fuze because I've traditionally always bought WM phones. I'm anxously awaiting WM7 because it potentially has a bunch of features I will be really excited about (ie. I am a Zune Pass subscriber, so I look forward to a Zune MP on WM phones) but I the commercials for the iphone keep teasing me... taunting me... telling me I can waste tons of time on it... I keep thinking I could buy the Iphone for use for the year and by the time WM7 comes out, there'll be all kinds of brand new WM7 ready phones that I could switch to.
I'll be honest with you, besides possibly erasing bloatware, I don't plan on doing a lot of modding or anything like that so that isn't important to me.
I want some honest opinions. Should I stand firm on my resolution to get the Fuze or should I take a dip in the iphone waters?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me personally, the top reason is that it's not on Sprint my preferred carrier.
And then no real GPS app. I can't live without TomTom on my TP, no way, especially now that i've been gifted a car. Been using TomTom on my PDA phones since version 5.
My biggest peeve is the chokehold Apple has on it in terms of 3rd party customization. To me it's stifling. An app only gets in only if they sanction it. So an app like WMWifirouter would never make it into the app store then.
They rejected an app called Podcaster that allowed you to download audio/video podcasts over the air, and the reason given was because it competed with and duplicated the podcast features of iTunes. But it's been now revealed that the real reason is because they are putting in over the air podcast downloads (albeit limited to 10MB or less) in the upcoming 2.2 firmware and do not want any competition.
Read here http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/06/apple-adds-ota-podcast-downloads-to-iphone-firmware-2-2-continu/ .
Just imagine if you couldn't run any other browser but Pocket I.E (no Opera Mobile/mini, Skyfire, Netfront), or any other media player but Windows media player (no pTunes/CorePlayer/Tcpmp), all because they duplicate an already existing functionality in Windows Mobile.
For me, those are too important to give up. Think about it.
If you don't mind the size, maybe you should get a Touch HD, because it has bigger screen, and therefore slightly better browsing experience.
iPhone's resolution is too low for decent browsing IMO.
I've really been considering to buy the Fuze, but I'm getting mixed reviews. For all the Fuze owners, please answer the poll so that us potential buyers will know what to do.
Thanks!
anyone else wanna vote?
theomni said:
anyone else wanna vote?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm stuck in between the Fuze and the Touch Pro now... I really don't know which one is better? They are the same price nowadays.
I recommend it. I had the Tilt before and I love the Touch, its probably the best WM phone I've had (I've used the Sprint 700wx, Sprint Q, Sprint Touch, AT&T Tilt and now the AT&T Fuze).
I'm sure the few issues that exist with the Fuze will be fixed within a month or two because of the wonderful people we have here making custom ROMs, porting radios, etc.
I am very happy with my Fuze. It's not perfect and definitely needs some tweaks, but I think it is the best Windows Mobile phone ever put out. The screen is fantastic and makes it worth it by itself.
Pros:
VGA screen
Excellent multimedia
Youtube works both in it's own app and the mobile website
Slingbox looks fantastic
Expanded keyboard
Sleek design
Touch Flo 3D really works good
Finally, good bluetooth reception
Cons:
So-so d-pad
More remappable buttons needed
No headphone out jack
I do miss the tilting screen of the Tilt
No forward facing camera (why AT&T?)
Overall, I love the phone. I don't even need to use my laptop much anymore. Plus, it should only get better. I can't wait to see the Fennec web browser released for WinMo.
The Fuze can run on AT&T's 3G bands, which is the biggest difference. Physically, the Fuze has a PTT button (remappable using a trick in this forum) and the Pro has a front-faceing camera, but they are otherwise the same. You can install whatever Touch Pro ROM you want on the Fuze once you flash Hard SPL on it, so the software difference should not be an issue. If you're on AT&T and in a 3G area, it's a no-brainer decision between the two.
Tempest790 said:
No forward facing camera (why AT&T?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
US carriers don't support that functionality so it's cheaper for HTC to leave it out all together.
I've swithed from iPhone after droolling over Fuze release date for 2 months. First couple of days had slight regret (my first WM phone), but once I got the hang of it I fell in love with it. My girl tried it out and dropped her iPhone for Fuze aswell. IMHO, Fuze is on a much higher level and you just can't customize the iPhone the way you can Fuze, no matter what Apple commercials say. Oh and by the way, I realized how crappy Apple products are, but that's another story.
I said no because its not for everyone. I read a lot of people wanting something other than the iphone because of the data plan, this is not an iphone. Then they go and complaint that they cant do this, that its slow, that this, that that. I confess, I am/was one of those whining byotches. I know its not an iphone, I'm just afraid to customizing with roms and then f-it up and be stuck with a nice $300 paper weight. So maybe after my month is up, I'll have the balls to customize it.
Do you have to buy a data plan with the Fuze like you have to with the iPhone, for AT&T?
Only if you want the rebate.
If you want the best browser/entertainment device thats easy to use get an iphone. If you need a business phone outside of entertainment, get the fuze. Both are aimed at different type of consumer.
I know this is exactly what everyone hates to hear, and they just want a plain yes or no, but it really does depend on the person.
If your the kind of person thats really into the stuff they buy, and wants a device that has tons of opportunities and possibilities, then you will probably like the fuze. The beautiful thing about winmo devices is how much you can mess around with them. You can download tons of apps, customize, flash new ROMs, experiment, all kinds of stuff.
If you want something that is ALWAYS going to be friendly and never ever give you any quirks or problems and you just want something that is very cut and dry, the fuze may not be for you.
I would line up your priorities and see what is most important to you and more importantly, what would make you want to throw your phone out the window, cause those are the things that are ultimately going to make you happy when your using your device.
Fuze thoughts:
I have had this phone for 3 days now. My prior phone was an 8125. I unlocked and customized that phone after 30 days. I will most likely do the same thing with this one. Gotta read read read.
Initial review: Absolutely the awesomest phone I have had to date, only the 3rd PDA, though.
I miss the programmable buttons. I haven't figured everything out, but I am getting the hang of it. It has advanced customization, though I haven't even touched the surface. The keyboard is a little different from my 8125, and as I have used it extensively for 2 years, I am accustomed to the numbers being along the top row. I think the 'Full 5 Row QWERTY keyboard on the phone should more closely resemble a normal keyboard, however, I am certain I will get used to it with a little practice.
I have one problem that AT&T doesn't know how to fix: the error message "Smart Chip Not Provisioned MM #2" comes up and shuts off phone signal. I initially thought it was the smart chip. I placed it in my 8125, and no problems. Then I exchanged the phone. Still no fix. It isn't a hard error I can readily duplicate, it just happens intermittently, but only in a specific location, so now I suspect the towers serving the area in which it happens. I suppose it could be the sim card in conjunction with the 3G network which the 8125 doesn't support, but further troubleshooting will eventually solve this one.
Addtionally I was hoping that AT&T wouldn't cripple the forward facing camera, but it isn't there, and I'm not willing to pay $550 more for a Touch Pro off Ebay just for that. As there isn't a lot of network support for live video conferencing, it really isn't that much of a problem for me anyway.
Reception seems to be about the same as my 8125, but again, further testing will support or disprove my initial experience. I am currently having trouble with the GPS function, but it is probably just a configuration/setup issue that I have not played with enough. The phone will tether without the laptop connect package, but you have to make a small edit in the registry. This is a relatively painless process.
This is not meant to criticize the Fuze. These are the only real problems (and minor to me) that I have encountered, and would give this phone a HIGH recommendation.
MrRuss
After owning HTC phones now for over 3 years, when will HTC start listening to people on forums like this one and htcpedia.com, then start making phones with the features that we are asking & waiting for. And just as important when will they start making accessories for these phones. Now owning a Touch HD for over a year I was looking at getting the new HD2, but it appears the mini usb port still does not support music or porting video through it (this is also true on the Touch HD yes I was disappointed when I found out). I would also like to have a built in FM transmitter. I think HTC are missing out on a great future for their phones.
Jez
P.S come on HTC sit up and take notice.
Contact HTC, if there are enough requests, they'll perhaps listen to you. Better than crying here .
Livven said:
Contact HTC, if there are enough requests, they'll perhaps listen to you. Better than crying here .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello Livven
Not crying just disappointed with HTC and thinking maybe it’s time to change, to a phone producer that is listening ,it appears that’s exactly what apple are doing. Been in touch with HTC direct about a month after I got the Touch HD asking them to include certain things on the next model and a year later the HD2 was launched which appears to be a big screen HD with no more capabilities.
Cheers jez
I got tired of HTC's short-sightedness and bought an iPhone. It's a nice phone but it doesn't have nearly the feature set of a WinMo phone and Apple is a total pain in the ass. I'm still not thrilled about HTC so I just bought the LG Expo and, as I write this, I'm boxing it up to return it to AT&T. The hardware specs look pretty good but there are just too many things wrong with this phone that can't be overlooked. To start with, the UI is just awful. The bland, painful Microsoft stock UI is actually easier to deal with, in my opinion. It takes a dozen taps to do almost anything and you really need a stylus to get anything done. Which leads to problem #2...the stylus. It's like a little tube of lipstick which also means it's not attached to the phone. I wonder how many days would take before it got lost? You can attach it via a little string but it's beyond stupid that this got past QA. Then there's the GPS. It comes with AT&T's GPS app but I have my own that I've used for quite some over on a variety of phones without a problem. It will not recognize the GPS in the Expo, however, and therefore won't work. Strike three, you're outta here. So as I mentioned, I'm boxing it up and taking it back either for a refund or, if they'll do it, a trade for the Tilt 2 or something from...sigh....HTC. Despite some of the dumb things they do on occasion, HTC is still the best WinMo phone manufacturer I know of.
Hello markgamber
I know where you are coming from I had the Samsung Omnia last year for a month and sent it back because it was crap, it had the same idea for the stylus as well, a piece of string to attach it to the phone. Maybe Iphone is not the way to go then. It’s I’m getting politely frustrated with spending a small fortune on phones that do only half of what I want it to do. That’s the thing, these manufactures forget these phones aren’t cheap to us, it just seems to me they are thick and they think they know what we want . I know what I want on my phone
1. winmo
2. gps for satnav
3. fm transmitter
4. tv out.
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station
6. 3.5mm headphone socket
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up
And so the storey goes on. Hopefully someone from HTC will read our thoughts and do something about it for the next model. If they do read these comments email me HTC and I will let you know what we want from our £500 phones. Bloody hell more money for a phone than a high spec laptop
markgamber said:
I got tired of HTC's short-sightedness and bought an iPhone. It's a nice phone but it doesn't have nearly the feature set of a WinMo phone and Apple is a total pain in the ass. I'm still not thrilled about HTC so I just bought the LG Expo and, as I write this, I'm boxing it up to return it to AT&T. The hardware specs look pretty good but there are just too many things wrong with this phone that can't be overlooked. To start with, the UI is just awful. The bland, painful Microsoft stock UI is actually easier to deal with, in my opinion. It takes a dozen taps to do almost anything and you really need a stylus to get anything done. Which leads to problem #2...the stylus. It's like a little tube of lipstick which also means it's not attached to the phone. I wonder how many days would take before it got lost? You can attach it via a little string but it's beyond stupid that this got past QA. Then there's the GPS. It comes with AT&T's GPS app but I have my own that I've used for quite some over on a variety of phones without a problem. It will not recognize the GPS in the Expo, however, and therefore won't work. Strike three, you're outta here. So as I mentioned, I'm boxing it up and taking it back either for a refund or, if they'll do it, a trade for the Tilt 2 or something from...sigh....HTC. Despite some of the dumb things they do on occasion, HTC is still the best WinMo phone manufacturer I know of.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi Mark
I hear your frustration about the eXpo....I bought a IQ from Telus (the Canadian version of the eXpo) and really didn't like the UI AT FIRST. But the phone has really grown on me. Maybe you should consider keeping it for a couple of weeks, and then giving it back if you still want to.
1) I now find I am figuring out the UI and I am starting to like it. Using Throttle Launcher(free) or Spd Shell($) are both options that are very similar to the TF3D or Sence UI if you really find you want to abandon the S Class UI but I would say try it for a week or two and you may like it...there are things you can do faster than TF3D as well as slower.
2) The stylus situation really sucks. No argument. I have found that after I set my phone up, I can get by without one especially when you figure out how to use the optical mouse functions.
3) GPS I am on Telus, so maybe AT&T has screwed you, but my Garmin Mobile XT software works just fine on my Telus phone. I did have to play a bit though. I installed the Garmin software, and it couldn't find the GPS. I then went into the windows settings, and set up the phone to use COM port 4, and then went into the Garmin setup and selected COM4. STILL no joy. But I then changed the Windows setting back to controlled by windows, and the Garmin software found a "GPS Intermediate Driver". Works great! Locks FAST, and no lag like when I used the Garmin Mobile XT on my Touch Pro.
I have installed Opera Beta 2U, and it with the HSPDA data and the snapdragon it is simply is the best mobile internet experience I have ever used or seen.
Good luck with you Phone hunting,
Hi jez.stix
I have a similar list to you...I got a Telus IQ (Its a Canadian eXpo)
How the IQ compares to your list:
1. winmo
YUP 6.5 (21868)
2. gps for satnav YUP - but check into this (See above ATT may have locked to there software)
3. fm transmitter YUP....sorry! Read this as receiver, Has a FM receiver but no transmitter to go to your car stereo..
4. tv out. YUP
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station ...not sure what you mean here..if you mean like all the docking stuff they sell at Walmart for IPhones..NOPE..of course it has a USB connection.
6. 3.5mm headphone socket NOPE
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works YUP..works quite well with flash
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up YUP OH YAH BIG TIME
The real down side is that it is not a HTC unit so XDA won't support it the way they do a HTC product. I decided I could live with that but that was the hardest pill to swallow. The build quallity is heads and shoulders above my old HTC Touch Pro
good luck in finding your dream phone.
jez.stix said:
Hello markgamber
I know where you are coming from I had the Samsung Omnia last year for a month and sent it back because it was crap, it had the same idea for the stylus as well, a piece of string to attach it to the phone. Maybe Iphone is not the way to go then. It’s I’m getting politely frustrated with spending a small fortune on phones that do only half of what I want it to do. That’s the thing, these manufactures forget these phones aren’t cheap to us, it just seems to me they are thick and they think they know what we want . I know what I want on my phone
1. winmo
2. gps for satnav
3. fm transmitter
4. tv out.
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station
6. 3.5mm headphone socket
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up
And so the storey goes on. Hopefully someone from HTC will read our thoughts and do something about it for the next model. If they do read these comments email me HTC and I will let you know what we want from our £500 phones. Bloody hell more money for a phone than a high spec laptop
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The iPhone is actually pretty nice, I just had a couple technical problems with it and, being a dev, I grew really tired of Apple dictating what I can and can't do with my phone and my apps. The most notable thing about the iPhone is that it's fast. When you start a program, it's up and running in short order and stays fast unless it has to do something really intensive or relies on a slow network connection. This being opposed to WinMo where it can sometimes take forever to do anything. This is, of course, because the iPhone doesn't do much real multitasking but if that's not an issue, then the iPhone probably warrants a look. Another problem I had was that most of the world uses WMV/WMA for streaming audio and video and the iPhone not only doesn't support it, Apple has stated that it won't approve anything that does support it. Sometimes you can get around that using Orb but not always and that leads to the third big problem I had with the iPhone, Apple's little tinpot dictator attitude. I've been using Slingplayer for years on WinMo phones and yes, AT&T says you can't use it but the practical side is that as long as you're not an a-hole about it, they don't really care. The bottom line is that I can make the choice about whether or not I want to use it. iPhone's Slingplayer simply doesn't have the option to work over 3G. In fact, the only app of that kind which did was Orb and, as I hear it, Orb Networks just removed it on orders from AT&T and Apple. Technically yes, you can jailbreak the iPhone, install a hack that fools programs into thinking 3G is wifi and those various programs work, but it's a hack and not something you can count on working with the next system update since Apple is working hard to prevent those kinds of hacks from working. Plus they're starting to be exploited by hackers of a less than friendly nature. The iPhone also didn't support what I considered some basic functionality such as cut/copy/paste, MMS and bluetooth audio, for quite some time. When Apple finally decided to include that functionality, they acted as though they invented it. That continues today with the lack of quite a bit of multimedia types, refusal to allow Flash or any browser other than Safari, any kind of advanced bluetooth functionality, multitasking and so on. Again, if you don't care about any of the above, you should probably take a look at the iPhone if only for comparison. It's also *VERY* finger friendly, much moreso than WinMo, and you don't like having to wield a stylus at all, I'd definitely take a look at the iPhone.
I don't know why these WinMo companies are so slow to adopt things that seem like basic functionality to many users but they do improve their products, albiet slowly at times, and they're still a magnitude better than the competition, in my opinion. The HTC Titan sold by Sprint was, without a doubt, the worse piece of garbage I ever owned. HTC actually had the balls to put a measly 128mb of ram in there, put WinMo 6 on it and then let Sprint add all it's worthless slop to it. The bottom line was that it took half a day to boot and when it was finally done, it left somewhere between 8 and 12mb free...not even enough to run Slingplayer. Sprint charged $600 for that chunk of s*it and when I raised hell about it, Sprint not only refused to take it back, they wouldn't even cut me a break on what I had to buy to replace it. That's why I'm now with AT&T. So HTC (and other companies) do improve their products. One valuable thing about the Titan was that I learned to buy a phone for what it can do, not what it's capable of doing.
That's my main problem with the Expo and why I returned it. On paper it's a nice phone and there's a lot of potential in the hardware that is either unrealized or lost in the mess LG slapped together. Hopefully LG improves the system over time but right now it's pretty awful, in my opinion, and no update will ever help that poorly implemented stylus and, most likely, the poor battery life.
htc response
thanks for your email. You are correct, The HD and HD2 do not have TV out. Only the Touch PR line of devices has TV out for using with presentations and the like. The TV Out function was not highly requested in the market research that we did, so we concentrated on what the request were mostly for...larger screen, multitouch, standard 3.5mm jack etc. TV out was very far down on the list of wanted features. As for the music abilities, the only thing i know of that was removed on the HD2 was the remote control. This has returned on the HD2 as we needed to develop one that worked with the standard 3.5 jack that the majority of our customers wanted. This was the only thing removed from the HD. We think we must be doing something right as we are selling more handsets than ever, and winning lots of awards for our handsets as well. However, obviously you cannot please everyone, and if we have failed to meet your needs then i apologise, and hope that whatever device you choose, whether it be one of ours or not, i hope that you will be happy with it and it is everything you want. Best regards, Pete W HTC
I once contacted HTC about their lack of attention to this site.
The response i got made a lot of sense sadly.
Because of all the ROMs made on here and all the software that we reverse engineer from them and others, they cannot associate themselves with us at all due to illegality.
But still, this being the case, I think they could still use this site as a good place to do market research upon. Just because xda-devs is the largest collection of winmo users in one place that I know of, it seems to be the perfect place for them to go to see what their end users want.
I am a designer myself and it seems stupid to ignore the biggest resource of research and ideas.
Just wondering why you chose Fuze/Touch-pro over Iphone.
For me 3 major reasons in order of importance:
Size: I just cannot accept the size of an Iphone. I believe in a small device with great capabilities that will nicely fit in my pocket.
Bluetooth Stereo: Bluetooth A2DP support was NOT native to Iphone at that time. Did not want to add and an UGLY connector to get bluetooth music streaming either
Not an Iphone fan boy: Never carried an Ipod nor had a Mac. Its too overrated and is more of a fashion statement. I just cant see the cool factor in Apple products.
Whats your reason?
#1: this forum
#2: can't type texts without a hardware keyboard when i'm drunk
#3: tp is my 3rd htc phone
price would also be a factor
iphones without a tariff is a lot more expensive then a touch pro without a tariff
Welll, in random order
#: xda-devs support
#: custom roms
#: HTC user since 2005
#: size and h/w keyboard
and most of all
#: never was a fan of (maybe powerful but) overrated trendy devices over powerful business ones, end of story.
iPhone may be a "powerful" device, which can provide a similar experience to WM (or even better, that's a subjective matter). However the fact that the device itself is locked, and does not allow you to experience it fully (and I mean things which are supposed to be standard in smartphones, like multitasking) without jailbreaking it, tells me one thing and one thing only: that Apple does not respect it's customers.
For me it was a matter of carrier, and the 5-way navigator, because aside from those factors my Touch Pro is almost the same as an iPhone anyways with all the skins and mods
1. iPhone is 44% higher than my Touch Pro discounted Sprint monthly Everything Plan.
2. iPhone doesn't have a physical keyboard vs. huge Touch Pro keys.
3. iPhone has zero customability. "There's an app for that" means nothing to me. Energy 6.5 with Sense2.5 ROM means a whole lot more.
Sadly I feel the opposite way. I'm thinking of selling my Fuze just because support for it sucks lets face it. Theres no where near the amount of developers for windows mobile as there is for the iphone. I find myself using my ipod touch way more than my fuze and the only thing I cant do on my ipod is make calls. Sure theres no hardware keyboard and its nice to have one but I could live without. One thing that kills me the most is the screen, its almost unbearable using my phone after I use my ipod but thats to be expected since they're different tech. But over all I find myself not liking my phone more and more everyday and I dont think its going to change. I think Im going to submit to apple with the next refresh of the iphone simply because Apple is the juggernaut of smart phones at this time. Until they find a way to standardize android its not going to shine, I truly think fragmentation is going to kill it and if it doesn't kill it, it will always be that other OS. And WP7 is a mess. For one I dont have a Facebook or any other social networking crap, nor do I have an xbox so all that integration is useless to me. Not to mention that the UI looks terrible. But thats my look on things and unfortunately the way things keep going I dont think its going to change.
VibrantRedGT said:
3. iPhone has zero customability. "There's an app for that" means nothing to me. Energy 6.5 with Sense2.5 ROM means a whole lot more.
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^^^^THIS^^^^
nagle3092 said:
Sadly I feel the opposite way. I'm thinking of selling my Fuze just because support for it sucks lets face it. Theres no where near the amount of developers for windows mobile as there is for the iphone. I find myself using my ipod touch way more than my fuze and the only thing I cant do on my ipod is make calls. Sure theres no hardware keyboard and its nice to have one but I could live without. One thing that kills me the most is the screen, its almost unbearable using my phone after I use my ipod but thats to be expected since they're different tech. But over all I find myself not liking my phone more and more everyday and I dont think its going to change. I think Im going to submit to apple with the next refresh of the iphone simply because Apple is the juggernaut of smart phones at this time. Until they find a way to standardize android its not going to shine, I truly think fragmentation is going to kill it and if it doesn't kill it, it will always be that other OS. And WP7 is a mess. For one I dont have a Facebook or any other social networking crap, nor do I have an xbox so all that integration is useless to me. Not to mention that the UI looks terrible. But thats my look on things and unfortunately the way things keep going I dont think its going to change.
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I'm sorry.....but April fools was on the 1st.
For myself it's all of what this guy says (from 3:40-4:00) in this iphone review "The Gadget Show" on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bumP10hUaVs, and more.
When I think of iphone...I can't help of think of the Will Smith movie iRobot. I have thoughts of Apple trying to brain wash me into thinking that it's the only phone I need and I don't need to think for myself because "there's an app for that". It want's me to drop my guard and completely trust that it can run my life with only finger swipes across the screen yet.....it will not let me have a close relationship with by shutting me out of it's inner workings (battery replacement, removable storage). It try's to keep me hanging by a thread just strong enough to stay attached for a new version with "innovative" abilities like "copy and paste". It's true colors are hard to see through it's colorful ads and apps.
1: size
2: its need to always be on the net
3: can't sync calendar, contacts w/out using iTunes, which I cannot stand
4: can't multitask apps
I have both a fuze and an iPhone 3G (from my son when he moved to 3Gs.) Both phones are jail broken, so I decided to use the iPhone with an international SIM while traveling. I was really (&**&(*^( t'd off when I noticed that it always connects, thus incurring international data roaming charges. There's no way to make it not "call home" for one reason or another (checking if there's something new in app store, etc.) unless you tweak connectivity, block almost every app, or install some "firewall" to block all traffic. That just sucks if you travel a lot. ATT warned me, but I didn't think it was that bad.
International roaming data charges are nothing to mess with. I've never used an iphone, but I've heard that many of the apps are web-based widgets. One of the problems with not having things like a native file explorer is that if you download an app, you can't look in program files to see what the hell you just downloaded. You'd know if it was just a web app on winmo pretty easily, but I'm sure it's hard to keep track of everything loaded on an iphone.
I went from an iphone 3G to a Fuze to a 3GS to a Tilt2 back to a Fuze with a Bold 9000 in there at some point as well.
I can't do without the physical keypad. I email on the go a lot with my phone, and I just can't get used to virtual keyboards. Just can't do it. I'm also a sports nut, so browser navigating ability needs to be on point, meaning I need a touch screen. Now, I'll admit the iPhone's capacative touch screen beats the hell out of the pressure sensitive ones, although they'll get a lot better with some of the tweaks and ROMs available. There's no lag when you use the iphone's screen (although the newest ROMs for the Fuze have done a great job closing that gap, but it's still very much present). I miss that and the myriad of apps.
I really do hate Apple, what they did with the priority bandwidth with AT&T, and the fact they can't and absolutely won't support flash, along with that internal battery and no storage card. They could easily provide these features, but they don't simply because they don't HAVE to in order to sell the product. But, the iphone does what it does incredibly well. I'll concede to that.
I went back to the Fuze from my Tilt2 because I was pretty pissed that the hardware wasn't really upgraded much between those models. That was an unpleasant surprise. Also, the Fuze is SOLID. It's a beast, the tracks don't have tight tolerances, and the case is thick with robust corners. Plus, the Android development for the Fuze seemed to be further along than for the Tilt2. Also, when typing on the hardware keyboard for the Raphael, your thumbs do all the moving, and your hands don't. The Rhodium's bigger layout is nicer in that you hit the wrong key much less; however, you're moving your hands a lot too. I didn't like that. ROMs are also getting ridiculously good for WinMo devices.
Let's be honest; what the iPhone does, it does incredibly well, and if I didn't have needs (HW keypad) that it didn't meet, I would still have it, even though the Apple logo itself makes me want to kill a hippie every time I see it.
1. I'm used to Windows Mobile, having used it on a PDA for several years
2. Getting a refurbished Fuze through AT&T with an Employee Purchase and a 2 year contract brought the price of the Fuze down to a rather attractive $0.
Fate was kind to me. I'm glad to have stumbled upon the Fuze.
Mainly the Hardware Keyboard, but all-in-all, I simply love HTC devices.
Oh, and the Hardware Specs were actually pretty good for the Fuze, not the best, but for a device with a hardware keyboard, not bad.
I originally bought my Fuze because of the hardware keyboard. 6 months later, I bought an iPhone 3GS. I liked the Fuze for the most part, I just couldn't take WM anymore. With the stock firmware, my battery would not last a day. Timlol's stock like firmware made the battery life bearable and the device much more usable. But in the end, it was the limitations of WM that made me switch. It is nice having a browser that works, a mail client that can display messages and not move to the next message when you accidently move your finger sideways, a well stocked app store and a touchscreen that actually responds properly to touch.
I still have my Fuze and will use it to play around with the current Android project, but for day to day use as a phone and data device, the iPhone is it.
On your poll it was a hard toss-up between "Hate Apple products" and the "Other options (cooked ROMs, Android etc)".
My biggest factor was that it was more open to open source and cracked (aka free) software, and more moddifications that could be done to the firmware. The reason this could be done is because its not an Apple product.
is it that hard to give us a stable OS? a fast cpu and ram and more ram? good touch screen (i like the way the iphone screen worked). an accelerometer w/ g-sensor (that is unlocked to apps (again iphone got this right, whats wrong lg?? come on!!) wifi, gps, a normal usb (mini or micro), & at least 1gig internal mem and a micro st slot, and let me multitask all of my apps at the same time, i dont want to quit a game so i can look up something on the internet or take a call, that why we have task managers, to manage tasks.
and make it affordable!!
and don't limit the apps like apple (thank god for cydia)
and come on at&t quit filling up the memory with things i will never use, let me do that.
oh yeah, and dont forget to allow me to view flash web pages, and not just youtube. i use wixi.com, but the mobile version sucks. and Orb Live. i want to access all of my media form home for free (w/data plan)
sorry about the rant, but maybe with a lot of luck someone with some pull will stumble across this and will create a great phone.
by the way windows sucks, sorry to say it but anyone who expected windows to make a good mobile OS must have been high, when is the last time windows got it right?? never they have been playing catch up to apple forever. They should call there next os "Windows Crash" and "WMCrash" because thats all my computer and phone do is "crash"
would it be against copyright laws to take an iphone 3gs setup, add a full QWERTY keyboard (slide out or flip) change the OS to Android, slightly change the look and button layout and market it as a new phone?
Make us a great phone and put it on At&t!!
jw_mahoney81 said:
is it that hard to give us a stable OS? a fast cpu and ram and more ram? good touch screen (i like the way the iphone screen worked). an accelerometer w/ g-sensor (that is unlocked to apps (again iphone got this right, whats wrong lg?? come on!!) wifi, gps, a normal usb (mini or micro), & at least 1gig internal mem and a micro st slot, and let me multitask all of my apps at the same time, i dont want to quit a game so i can look up something on the internet or take a call, that why we have task managers, to manage tasks.
and make it affordable!!
and don't limit the apps like apple (thank god for cydia)
and come on at&t quit filling up the memory with things i will never use, let me do that.
oh yeah, and dont forget to allow me to view flash web pages, and not just youtube. i use wixi.com, but the mobile version sucks. and Orb Live. i want to access all of my media form home for free (w/data plan)
sorry about the rant, but maybe with a lot of luck someone with some pull will stumble across this and will create a great phone.
by the way windows sucks, sorry to say it but anyone who expected windows to make a good mobile OS must have been high, when is the last time windows got it right?? never they have been playing catch up to apple forever. They should call there next os "Windows Crash" and "WMCrash" because thats all my computer and phone do is "crash"
would it be against copyright laws to take an iphone 3gs setup, add a full QWERTY keyboard (slide out or flip) change the OS to Android, slightly change the look and button layout and market it as a new phone?
Make us a great phone and put it on At&t!!
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Why not put your questions to htc direct?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=683957
Who is we ? " We " all need different things from our phone. And " we " all don't want to pay $1000 for a phone with super everything.
" ...and make it affordable ?......" That is like saying ..." hey car companies, why can't you make a car that goes 200 mph, runs on electricity, gets a thousand hours per charge, made from all titanium , works totally on voice commands , oh yeah and it has to be affordable, about 15K. "
Why doesn't HTC make a phone like that ? It would be obnoxiously expensive to put all that technology into one phone, unless they put a super new battery in it, the current batteries will never run all those features. And no one wants to pay for what it would cost to sell a phone like that.
Like cars, you pick out the features you want, find a phone that has most of those features at a price you can afford, and then spend the next year whining about all the things your phone can't do.
ATT will never get anything good in fear it would compete with the iPhone. To make a phone with all those features, would cost a fortune and some stuff isn't for everyone. That's why we have "affordable" smartphones like the Smart, Wildfire, Tattoo, etc and more extravagant phones like the HD2, Nexus, Desire, etc.
because if this does happen, companies can't make more cell phones sell because the one cellphone has everything YOU need.... and everyone's needs are different, like how I don't like the HTC HD2's large screen...
denco7: I would never pay $1000 for a phone. I wont even pay $150 for a phone with a 2 year contract. even if it had every thing. yes i understand that a lot of work goes in to making these phone but its not like the people making the phone get the big bucks. they get there regular pay check. and with technology today parts are cheap. like to replace the screen on my old iphone it cost me $20 on ebay, so that means it probable cost less than $5 to make if not less. it probable cost less than $25 in parts to make an iphone, plus the $8 per hour it cost to employ someone to watch the computer do all of the work.
and i expect a smart phone to do everything i want it to do hardware wise, now i understand that i might have to buy apps to use all the fetchers, but i dont want to be limited especially if the phone has the hardware but its locked so that you cant use it for other functions. like the lg expo. why put a g-sensor in a phone and not allow it to be used to the fullest extent? all its good for is rotating the screen, now thats dumb.
why should i have to pick a lesser phone and choose what options are more impotent than others when picking a phone?? just give them all to me and if i dont want to use them then i dont use them.
I used every feather on my iphone 3g. I use the sh!t out of my phones, and i expect them to run fast. the biggest thing i didnt like about the stock os on the iphone was it didnt multi-task but i found a fix to that (backgrounder & multifl0w)
most of the problems with phones is that they limit the hardware with the OS. and thats just dumb.
I find it funny how everyone says this would be too "expensive." Everything OP named is what "smartphones" SHOULD be at right now.
1gb ram is MAYBE 20 dollars... for buyers! (I agree, cell phone RAM would probably be more expensive.)
1gb internal storage? Again, they have cheap mp3 players the size of a nickel with this for 5 dollars. That would be NOTHING.
iPhone (well, i use iPod touch) does have an actually nice touchscreen - again which is actually already on the market. However, I'll limit Apple to my iPod touch. iPhone isn't touching ANY Android phone. =]
A hardware keyboard should be a "duh." I have a myTouch, and love it. However, I feel buyers remorse often because I just didn't get a keyboard. However, it doesn't add 400 dollars just for a hard keyboard.
Flash is on its way - which has nothing to do with the hardware.
I have to say, OP is right. Smartphones are really lacking what they're actually capable of. And, with a service plan, price might be like 300 dollars (if the manufacturer wasn't money hungry). I'd pay 300 dollars for a phone like that with a service plan. I'd pay 800 to a grand for one with no service plan. Why? Have any of you looked at the price of that p.o.s. iPad? I could go buy a laptop 2x better than the iPad WITH TOUCHSCREEN for the amount of a 64 gb (which is NOTHING) iPad. Probably 5 times better for one without touchscreen.
Of course, this is just my opinion. Also, I have to admit, they are advancing faster and faster. Even with the possibility that they could exist now... I see them actually existing VERY soon.
Edit: As PurpleLlamaLover said, though, I dount AT&T will ever get a phone better than the iPhone because A. It's not like it would even be noticed and B. What he said, they don't want to compete with it. Especially if its cheaper. Which it probably would be.
Actual cost of an iPhone
http://www.isuppli.com/News/Pages/i...ufacturing-Cost-iSuppli-Teardown-Reveals.aspx
Actual cost of Steve Jobs' G5........$45 to $70 million
http://www.gulfstream.com/products/g550/
while there is room for growth on the smartphones, there are great things to be said about alot of the same phones. every user has different needs and wants and i would find it difficult to try and predict what would satisfy every consumer. the list of desirables outlined by jw_mahoney81 pretty much describe my tp2 and hd2. i still dont understand why windows devices crash. i have however heard that technology is only as good as the user.
LOL you did not just spell features like teachers with an f!
Anyway, implausible.