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[MOD] A700 Heat & a Viable Solution!!!

UPDATE:
I wish I'd done some temperature benchmarking beforehand, but instead sourced the community to help out. Check out the various results on XDA... there are also results from two TF700 owners (in Europe) who were gracious enough to help me out.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=28051518
First, it seems clear that my mod really didn't mitigate the heat issue enough... so don't bother.
Second, comparing the numbers between other A700's and the TF700... well, I'll let you draw your own conclusion on that one. :-(
---
Hi all,
As many of you have experienced, the A700 can get very hot under certain conditions. Mine got extremely hot to the touch after just an hour of gaming (Heavy Gunner, NFL Flick QB, and Cut the Rope), and crashed 2 or 3 times.
Well I decided to do something about it. Reading through the Service Guide (thank you paugustin!!!) & A700 teardown photos from another site, I came to some conclusions. First, from the looks of things, the back panel has some kind of metal plate lining, and 3 "pads" that closed the gap between the metal plate and several surfaces of the mainboard. My hope was that these pads were not simply foam pads but were actual thermal pads. I guessed that a bit of thermal paste might help the efficiency of those thermal pads... and if I got really ambitious, I could replace the thermal pads with larger ones (and paste those too).
Service Guide:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1716922
I followed the instructions in the Service Guide & opened up my A700 earlier tonight. I'm pleased to report that as long as you take your time, it's super easy to open up.
And lo and behold, my conclusions were accurate... the back plate is copper and the pads were thermal pads!
Back Plate:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/um556g6vtl7y99e/C360_2012-06-26-20-14-30.jpg
MainBoard:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jka8gooiyqn9r2d/C360_2012-06-26-20-14-46.jpg
Closer Look @ the Thermal Pads:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0j4e7wjfodwryk9/C360_2012-06-26-20-15-06.jpg
I took some CPU thermal paste I had lying around & dabbed some on:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kvv99k3ghx73a00/C360_2012-06-26-20-17-24.jpg
Afterwards, I slapped everything back together, fired up NFL Flick QB and played for a half hour. I'm pleased to report that the A700 got warm but nowhere near as hot as it did in my prior gaming session. The "level of warmth" was what I'd consider mildly warm, comparable to my fiancee's iPad3, so definitely within reasonable tolerances.
I still intend to put the A700 through some more intense gaming tomorrow, but I wanted to write this post up and share it with everyone first. Hope folks find this useful and insightful!

Nice discovery, but yikes! Thermal grease is meant to go on in a translucently thin layer or it ends up having the opposite effect! If you put that much between a CPU and it's cooler, you'd kill the CPU! :S

superawesome!
Yet still i'd like to wait for more people to evaluate the hardwaremodding before i go in there myself.
Still, kudos to you. :good:

FloatingFatMan said:
Nice discovery, but yikes! Thermal grease is meant to go on in a translucently thin layer or it ends up having the opposite effect! If you put that much between a CPU and it's cooler, you'd kill the CPU! :S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except in this case, the thermal grease isn't going up directly against the CPU... it's going up against a thermal pad & large metal plate that is covering the entire mainboard.
Additionally, unlike a heatsink & CPU which are fitted together tightly, the back panel of the A700 & thermal pads do not contact anywhere near as tight to the mainboard plate. I fitted the two halves together, then pulled them apart again, to see how much the paste really spread out. This way I could better gauge how tight the contact was & remove any excess that got squished out. However, not much paste really did, telling me that the compression between the two isn't that great. That is why I'm toying with the idea of replacing the thermal pads entirely.

Hey, good stuff. Keep us in the loop on this....
Thicker thermal pads might be in order, or a better paste job under the plate on the CPU/GPU...
Bigger pads to spread the heat out more since the back looks to be one copper heat sink..
http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l2/g8/c487/list/p1/Thermal-Thermal_Pads_Tape.html

Beknatok said:
Hi all,
As many of you have experienced, the A700 can get very hot under certain conditions. Mine got extremely hot to the touch after just an hour of gaming (Heavy Gunner, NFL Flick QB, and Cut the Rope), and crashed 2 or 3 times.
Well I decided to do something about it. Reading through the Service Guide (thank you paugustin!!!) & A700 teardown photos from another site, I came to some conclusions. First, from the looks of things, the back panel has some kind of metal plate lining, and 3 "pads" that closed the gap between the metal plate and several surfaces of the mainboard. My hope was that these pads were not simply foam pads but were actual thermal pads. I guessed that a bit of thermal paste might help the efficiency of those thermal pads... and if I got really ambitious, I could replace the thermal pads with larger ones (and paste those too).
Service Guide:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1716922
I followed the instructions in the Service Guide & opened up my A700 earlier tonight. I'm pleased to report that as long as you take your time, it's super easy to open up.
And lo and behold, my conclusions were accurate... the back plate is copper and the pads were thermal pads!
Back Plate:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/um556g6vtl7y99e/C360_2012-06-26-20-14-30.jpg
MainBoard:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jka8gooiyqn9r2d/C360_2012-06-26-20-14-46.jpg
Closer Look @ the Thermal Pads:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0j4e7wjfodwryk9/C360_2012-06-26-20-15-06.jpg
I took some CPU thermal paste I had lying around & dabbed some on:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kvv99k3ghx73a00/C360_2012-06-26-20-17-24.jpg
Afterwards, I slapped everything back together, fired up NFL Flick QB and played for a half hour. I'm pleased to report that the A700 got warm but nowhere near as hot as it did in my prior gaming session. The "level of warmth" was what I'd consider mildly warm, comparable to my fiancee's iPad3, so definitely within reasonable tolerances.
I still intend to put the A700 through some more intense gaming tomorrow, but I wanted to write this post up and share it with everyone first. Hope folks find this useful and insightful!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fantastic for the XDA community, but the average buyer will be like the cheesey pop group Power Station and will "Feel the heat".

rushless said:
Fantastic for the XDA community, but the average buyer will be like the cheesey pop group Power Station and will "Feel the heat".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then be happy that you're amongst the enlightened!

CAUTION!!!!!
OK maybe that's a bit strong, but as an engineer I have to question the logic employed.
First of all, the heat generated by the CPU, battery, etc. must exit the device. ALL OF IT!
Temperature of the back plate is determined by two factors alone: thermal resistance (e.g. insulation, heat pipes, air flow, fins, etc.) and the amount of heat transfer. I'm serious!
It appears that you have done nothing to affect the thermal resistance between the back plate and the air (e.g. adding cooling fins or increasing air flow). Therefore if your back plate temperature has decreased (and the air temp stayed the same), then we would conclude that heat transfer between the back plate and the air has DECREASED.
If hea

If heat transfer from the plate to the air has decreased, then that means the heat transfer from the CPU etc. to the plate must have decreased as well!
My guess is that your thermal paste is producing a higher thermal resistance, as predicted by FFM! And it's deceptive because it's insulating the back plate from the CPU etc.
So where's the heat going? (I hear myself asking... myself.)
My guess is that it's dissipating through the tablet, getting distributed and absorbed and ultimately emitted more uniformly from the device. This would raise the internal temperature of the device, including the CPU! Hence the CAUTION!!!!!

Your idea could have some benefit, though, and here's how i see it playing out:
If you decrease the thermal resistance between the CPU and the back plate, then the CPU would be closer to the temperature of the back plate (i.e. lower). But the back plate temperature won't really change because you still have the same total heat coming through and the same thermal resistance with the air.
As for spreading the temperature across the back plate more, I'm not sure you can do it more effectively than the copper plate that's already there. Not without insulating the most direct heat transfer path!

yeoldeusrename said:
CAUTION!!!!!
OK maybe that's a bit strong, but as an engineer I have to question the logic employed.
First of all, the heat generated by the CPU, battery, etc. must exit the device. ALL OF IT!
Temperature of the back plate is determined by two factors alone: thermal resistance (e.g. insulation, heat pipes, air flow, fins, etc.) and the amount of heat transfer. I'm serious!
It appears that you have done nothing to affect the thermal resistance between the back plate and the air (e.g. adding cooling fins or increasing air flow). Therefore if your back plate temperature has decreased (and the air temp stayed the same), then we would conclude that heat transfer between the back plate and the air has DECREASED.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, I'm aware of this.
The exact problem I was attempting to mitigate, is the transfer of heat between the mainboard cover plate and the back panel copper plate. I was theorizing that the thermal pads being used were not fitted well, thus not functioning optimally as designed to begin with. As a result, not enough heat was being transfered to the back panel copper plate for proper dissipation.
So either heat is being transferred to the back copper plate more efficiently now and dissipating more effectively... or the opposite as you proposed.
However, if heat transfer has decreased, wouldn't heat buildup would still occur within the small area between the back panel & mainboard? While it wouldn't be absorbing the same amount of heat directly from the thermal pad, heat would still build up over time and that should still be noticable no matter what, right?

I'd also note that the BETTER solution would be to NOT combine thermal paste with the thermal pads, since as you point out, that can adversely affect thermal resistance.... but rather to replace the pads with better pads.
But I decided to be a guinea pig and try it out anyway.

Sorry I got distracted before posting my conclusion:
So my conclusion (prior to your latest comments) is that you can effectively lower the temperature of the CPU but not of the back plate. (unless you're insulating it from the CPU, which will spread the heat around and raise the temp of the internals!!!!).
I will consider your latest comments and repost!

The way I see it, the heat was not effectively transferred to the radiator. We have to remember that the case heat-up experienced by touch is not only the radiator, but the case itself heated by both the radiator and the air.
I'd assume that lack of crashes indicates smaller temperature of the CPU\GPU, as the heat is conducted more effectively by the paste to the radiator and dissipates evenly, instead of building up in one place and transferred to the case by air.

It's times like this, that highlights the one minor missing flaw of the A700... there's no bloody temperature sensors that we can poll!!!
*bashes head against desk*
So unfortunately, all findings are really subjective unless yeoldeusrename's conclusions are correct and mine are totally incorrect, and my A700 decides to fry itself.

Beknatok said:
It's times like this, that highlights the one minor missing flaw of the A700... there's no bloody temperature sensors that we can poll!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, i wouldn't be that sure. The A510 has them (at least separately for cpu and battery) and can be read by certain apps from the store. (E.g system tuner and battery monitor widget) so i would guess the A700 has them too.
Perhaps that helps
Sent from my A510 using xda app-developers app

mearoth said:
Well, i wouldn't be that sure. The A510 has them (at least separately for cpu and battery) and can be read by certain apps from the store. (E.g system tuner and battery monitor widget) so i would guess the A700 has them too.
Perhaps that helps
Sent from my A510 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The two apps I tried, didn't show anything for temperature, but I just grabbed system tuner & it does register cpu temp! Yay! Will explore the app further to figure out how to record history for accurate metrics. Thanks for the hint.
Sent from my A700 using Tapatalk 2

Beginning to wonder if the heat and touch issues are why the 700 is priced the exact same as the 510. Nothing else apparently makes sense.

Anyone who is tracking this thread & wouldn't mind helping gather some additional data, please check out this thread:
CPU Temp Benchmarking - Request for Help
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=28009068
Thanks!!!

I think I'm going to look into creating a heat shield to place against the rear cover.
2 to 3 inches across and 4 down on the right side should do it.
This is a great tablet otherwise and don't want to give up on it just yet.
Besides the Asus sound system is inferior.

[Q] Tablet heating?

Hi I had purchased a Galaxy Note 10.1 recently and have been playing around with it. A concern I had was that on the upper left backside of the device, below the silver plate on the white surface, the device feels warm compared to other areas of the tablet when using any apps. Is this normal or not?

m.sfm said:
Hi I had purchased a Galaxy Note 10.1 recently and have been playing around with it. A concern I had was that on the upper left backside of the device, below the silver plate on the white surface, the device feels warm compared to other areas of the tablet when using any apps. Is this normal or not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that is close to the cpu same on mine

Hi erica, how long have you had your tablet? Has it ever really bothered you too?

"Feeling warm" is normal for anything with a modern CPU inside it. If you put your hand directly on the CPU (or the heatsink covering it) in a desktop or laptop computer you may burn your hand since it can reach huge temperatures of 60 degrees plus.
This review shows the Galaxy Note 10.1 to reach 45.9 C on one corner of the back when under maximum load:
The Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 had no issues regarding temperature. Even after long periods of full utilization during our stress test, the Galaxy Note did not become excessively warm. While the upper left corner exhibited slight hot spots on both the front and back side with temperatures of 45.9 degrees Celsius (115.6 degrees Fahrenheit), this temperature is still rather trivial considering the fact that our test was conducted on a hot summer day. During daily use, the surface temperatures of the tablet remained comfortably cool and under 33 degrees Celsius (91 degrees Fahrenheit) at every measurement location. The internal components showed no risk of overheating in any case and even the AC adapter barely warmed up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Samsung-Galaxy-Note-10-1-GT-N8010-Tablet.80901.0.html
Since it's plastic, that'll never feel "hot", just warm.
You should rarely reach maximum load if you use well-behaved apps, though some games will tax it a bit. It's actually pretty amazing what processor power can be achieved in this thing without getting too hot or requiring a fan, thanks to the ARM architecture.

MercuryStar said:
"Feeling warm" is normal for anything with a modern CPU inside it. If you put your hand directly on the CPU (or the heatsink covering it) in a desktop or laptop computer you may burn your hand since it can reach huge temperatures of 60 degrees plus.
This review shows the Galaxy Note 10.1 to reach 45.9 C on one corner of the back when under maximum load:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Samsung-Galaxy-Note-10-1-GT-N8010-Tablet.80901.0.html
Since it's plastic, that'll never feel "hot", just warm.
You should rarely reach maximum load if you use well-behaved apps, though some games will tax it a bit. It's actually pretty amazing what processor power can be achieved in this thing without getting too hot or requiring a fan, thanks to the ARM architecture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So if the tablet reaches 52 C, thats alright? I really don't know specifics like this at all but would a tablet such as the asus tf700 feel the same way? I mean heat wise on a everyday medium load?

They actually get considerably warm being they are made out of aluminum. I had the tf201 and 700. It's not too hot though but you notice it
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app

I am using system tuner to see the cpu temperature and I am getting high as 55 C. So I am in the green right? What is the highest the temperature can be and my tablet can still have a good lifespan?

A few things:
1. When I pointed out the review of this device that said it got to 45.9 degrees, that's the surface of the outside of the case. That's different to the CPU temperature, which will invariably be hotter.
2. Tools that report CPU temperature are invariably misleading. There are so many different ways to measure it that mean different things and sensors can be calibrated differently on different devices. I'd say leave it up to the engineers that built the tablet and trust that they built it to tolerate any heat it generates, which they will have had to.
3. Aluminium of the TF201 won't be getting warmer because it's aluminium, it'll just *feel* warmer because it's aluminium - even if it were the same temperature. It conducts heat to your body more efficiently as a metal. As a result, the case itself will actually help cool the tablet better, but don't go assuming this makes aluminium cases better - the engineers would have accounted for this in their thermal design, and we're not talking about all that much heat here anyway.
At any rate, this tablet doesn't get hot enough to worry about - far, far from it. The amount of warmth you feel is normal and in a tablet like this will never get close to approaching the heat required to reduce the CPU's life (unless something goes terribly wrong or you put it in an oven or something). It's not even worth worrying about. I'd worry more than in 3-5 years' time the battery capacity will have deteriorated to the point where it'll give you noticeably less battery life - because that will happen. If you're going to worry about overheating, worry about your laptop instead. If its little fan stops, is blocked or fills with dust, it is actually *quite likely* to overheat the CPU eventually - not that you're likely to notice, as the CPU will just throttle down.

Thanks for the useful info, now do i just delete this thread?

m.sfm said:
Thanks for the useful info, now do i just delete this thread?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why deny other people the chance to read these comments or contribute to the conversation? I myself put a fair bit of effort into my own comment!

m.sfm said:
Thanks for the useful info, now do i just delete this thread?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No but you can put solved in title so it can help future members.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using xda app-developers app

XZp not so waterproof - usb port vulnerable?

I've been playing around the service menu and tested the Pressure Sensor. In a solid waterproof phone, pressure should remain steady when acted upon by outside forces.
I simply tried to moderately blow some air into the USB port and there's a notable difference. Also removed the sim cap and sucked on the port. Air was clearly passing through.
I'm curious if it's just my phone with this issue in which case I'll replace it, or if it's a design fault, in which case you shouldn't submerge it.
In the screenshots you'll see the pressure difference. So please test this by accessing the service menu *#*#service#*#*, > tests > pressure sensor and simply blow some air into it.
And for the giggles and ranting, there's the sony talk thread https://talk.sonymobile.com/t5/Xper...s-waterproof/m-p/1237116/highlight/true#M2652

Sebi673 said:
I've been playing around the service menu and tested the Pressure Sensor. In a solid waterproof phone, pressure should remain steady when acted upon by outside forces.
I simply tried moderately blowing some air into the USB port and there's a notable difference. Also removed the sim cap and sucked on the port. Air was clearly passing through.
I'm curious if it's just my phone with this issue in which case I'll replace it, or if it's a design fault, in which case you shouldn't submerge it.
In the screenshots you'll see the presiune difference. So please test this by accessing the service menu *#*#service#*#*, > tests > pressure sensor and simply blow some air into it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In Xperia Z3 there was a hole in the lower-left corner that if not covered by hand also let the pressure to drop down.
I think that every phone has to have some kind of a "blow off valve" to prevent internal pressure from rising when the phone heats up to avoid damaging the seals around the screen and the back.
Note that when you cover the usb port pressure stays perfectly stable. The phone is still waterproof it just lets the internals "breathe"

mracer164 said:
In Xperia Z3 there was a hole in the lower-left corner that if not covered by hand also let the pressure to drop down.
I think that every phone has to have some kind of a "blow off valve" to prevent internal pressure from rising when the phone heats up to avoid damaging the seals around the screen and the back.
Note that when you cover the usb port pressure stays perfectly stable. The phone is still waterproof it just lets the internals "breathe"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's far more than a simple valve. For example if you have water in the port and you blow some air to take it out, that water will actually go inside the phone. I'm asking because if ever submerged, water pressure will be far grater than my air blowing capabilities ))) so things can get messy pretty fast.
It's far too easy to change the pressure inside it, so all I need to know is if other XZp are behaving the same way or if it's just mine.

Sebi673 said:
It's far more than a simple valve. For example if you have water in the port and you blow some air to take it out, that water will actually go inside the phone. I'm asking because if ever submerged, water pressure will be far grater than my air blowing capabilities ))) so things can get messy pretty fast.
It's far too easy to change the pressure inside it, so all I need to know is if other XZp are behaving the same way or if it's just mine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I said Z3 behaved similarly and I have submerged this phone a couple of times and never had any problems with it. Note that air particles are much more able to squeeze through tight spaces than water.
Same principle aplies to waterproof jackets, they let the air pass through so that you wont get sweaty while at the same time the won't let water go through.

mracer164 said:
As I said Z3 behaved similarly and I have submerged this phone a couple of times and never had any problems with it. Note that air particles are much more able to squeeze through tight spaces than water.
Same principle aplies to waterproof jackets, they let the air pass through so that you wont get sweaty while at the same time the won't let water go through.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes man, I know what a valve is and how it operates in a phone. I've been having xperias for over 5 years. I'm not on Talk.sonymobile, I'm on xda. So if you can try the test whenever you can. All it takes is 1 minute.
I opened this thread because I need to see if mine has those rubber seals too loose or if it's a general and normal thing. I asked for xzp owners to try the test because on my phone air passes virtually unobstructed.

Sebi673 said:
Yes man, I know what a valve is and how it operates in a phone. I've been having xperias for over 5 years. I'm not on Talk.sonymobile, I'm on xda. So if you can try the test whenever you can. All it takes is 1 minute.
I opened this thread because I need to see if mine has those rubber seals too loose or if it's a general and normal thing. I asked for xzp owners to try the test because on my phone air passes virtually unobstructed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It works for me exactly the same way as you described. Sorry I didn't mean to patronise you in any way

There is a pressure regulation in every phone. The reason is the battery, in case the battery is defective (see Shamesung Note ), it will produce gas. This gas can later inflame, hence it is important to get it out of the device.

Illux said:
There is a pressure regulation in every phone. The reason is the battery, in case the battery is defective (see Shamesung Note ), it will produce gas. This gas can later inflame, hence it is important to get it out of the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know, I just spent a lot of money on this thing and I'd rather avoid damaging it. In my opinion that valve is way too lose.
Check this video out, I do not agree with this idiotic test but in the end the phone got water damaged. Vibrator Motor is right next to the USB port which in this video it keeps on vibrating even after device is off.
https://youtu.be/Z3JUGkXXXJw?t=17m52s
I might be a bit paranoid but submerging this phone is not a good idea. Maybe something like this will help https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91LUJPpD45L._SL1500_.jpg

mracer164 said:
It works for me exactly the same way as you described. Sorry I didn't mean to patronise you in any way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know, I'm sorry for jumping the gun. Didn't get a full night sleep.
I'm weary because I had Xperia XZ for a week, did the same test but the breathability on the usb port was minimum. Anyway, I'll be careful. My (very) old Xperia Z got water damaged in the pool due to a worn rubber band on the headphone jack. Damage was extensive.

Sebi673 said:
I know, I just spent a lot of money on this thing and I'd rather avoid damaging it. In my opinion that valve is way too lose.
Check this video out, I do not agree with this idiotic test but in the end the phone got water damaged. Vibrator Motor is right next to the USB port which in this video it keeps on vibrating even after device is off.
https://youtu.be/Z3JUGkXXXJw?t=17m52s
I might be a bit paranoid but submerging this phone is not a good idea. Maybe something like this will help https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91LUJPpD45L._SL1500_.jpg
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If damaged by submerging, I'd send it on for guarantee and request a new one. It states IP68 proof, that means 30 minutens fully submerged.
Oh and btw, the guy actually FROZE his phone for 12 hours .

Illux said:
If damaged by submerging, I'd send it on for guarantee and request a new one. It states IP68 proof, that means 30 minutens fully submerged.
Oh and btw, the guy actually FROZE his phone for 12 hours .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know.... It's an idiotic test. But leaving that aside, it is compared to another waterproof phone which worked as good as new afterwards. So it's safe too assume that the USB might be letting in a bit more than just data and power.
It's a bit of a letdown, I'll wait for the teardown videos to see if they finally coated the motherboard and other boards against water ingress. Just like you see in the iphone and samsung.

Sebi673 said:
I know.... It's an idiotic test. But leaving that aside, it is compared to another waterproof phone which worked as good as new afterwards. So it's safe too assume that the USB might be letting in a bit more than just data and power.
It's a bit of a letdown, I'll wait for the teardown videos to see if they finally coated the motherboard and other boards against water ingress. Just like you see in the iphone and samsung.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I'm the kinda guy who tries out things if promised . What I can tell you, my phone spent a fair amount of time submerged already, I always wanted to try out underwater video recording. No real sense in it, but it's fun .
Still working and it's drying real quick.

Illux said:
Well, I'm the kinda guy who tries out things if promised . What I can tell you, my phone spent a fair amount of time submerged already, I always wanted to try out underwater video recording. No real sense in it, but it's fun .
Still working and it's drying real quick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know it's fun, it's even more so when you wash it in the sink in front of people haha. Can you please do me a solid and test the pressure sensor while blowing air into the usb? like I tried - 2 cm away, full lung pressure on the usb, and tell me if that pressure rapidly moves up. It will help me sleep better at night after I wash the thing haha.

Sebi673 said:
I know it's fun, it's even more so when you wash it in the sink in front of people haha. Can you please do me a solid and test the pressure sensor while blowing air into the usb? like I tried - 2 cm away, full lung pressure on the usb, and tell me if that pressure rapidly moves up. It will help me sleep better at night after I wash the thing haha.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll do so in 13 minutes, im currently running a battery test. Just as side note, Amazon Underground seems to drain battery like hell on 7.1.
---------- Post added at 01:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------
Sebi673 said:
I know it's fun, it's even more so when you wash it in the sink in front of people haha. Can you please do me a solid and test the pressure sensor while blowing air into the usb? like I tried - 2 cm away, full lung pressure on the usb, and tell me if that pressure rapidly moves up. It will help me sleep better at night after I wash the thing haha.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, done. Pressure going up rapidly. Consider it normal.

Illux said:
I'll do so in 13 minutes, im currently running a battery test. Just as side note, Amazon Underground seems to drain battery like hell on 7.1.
---------- Post added at 01:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------
Ok, done. Pressure going up rapidly. Consider it normal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YAY!!!! Paranoid Parrot now returning to its cage :victory:

Mine does the same

I have the same problem and my xzp had water damaged,they changed me a new one which still have this problem....I will not try twice.Maybe this is a manufacturing problem.

sonyisall said:
I have the same problem and my xzp had water damaged,they changed me a new one which still have this problem....I will not try twice.Maybe this is a manufacturing problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a design flaw then..... I'll buy the usb silicon caps just to be extra safe.... Shame they didn't manage to build this properly.....

Forgive me my ignorance. I know it's stupid question and I know answer will be yes, but it's always worth double checking.
So I can submerge xz premium without any usb/jack and other ports covers as they were just designed to be able to handle that?

SUPERSLEDZ said:
Forgive me my ignorance. I know it's stupid question and I know answer will be yes, but it's always worth double checking.
So I can submerge xz premium without any usb/jack and other ports covers as they were just designed to be able to handle that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that is the idea behind IP68 certification. I dumped my phone in the pool yesterday, just for fun. Just PLEASE make sure to dry the phone before charging it. I know that sounds stupid but there is some photos around of ppl claiming their devices just started burning. Due to the nature of energy transport in USB-C 3.1, that is almost impossible - unless you short-circuit it with water .

PX6 cooling. Thermal pase or pad?

The factory heatsing had thermal paste.
I got a new one from seller dince i had overheat problems at summer and i used thermal paste as well.
But the px6 is not flat. It has holes and such.
So i am wondering.
Maybe a thermal pad would be better than thermal paste? If it is what thickness?

Paste has always been better with uneven surfaces.

I can understand it exactly the opposite way. Even surfaces go for paste, non even with pad.

GnFgr said:
I can understand it exactly the opposite way. Even surfaces go for paste, non even with pad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may be thinking of EPOXY thermal compound, which in my opinion is garbage.
On the other hand any silicone based grease is far better at filling gaps than pads are. Most factories tend to use pads though because it's cleaner and there is less maintenance to perform on the factory assembly machines.
Good read here:
Thermal Pads vs Thermal Paste: The Best Choice for Mounting Your Heatsinks
I used to work as a construction assistant, where my primary responsibility was to level properties prior to the heavy concrete trucks laying down a level foundation. It was a tedious and taxing job, but something that is quite crucial for a building in order for it to withstand years of use and...
resources.altium.com

I never said about epoxy based. Never.
The px6 is not only uneven but has a metal shield on top. The metal shield acts as an interference shield ( like a faraday cage maybe?) And has holes. So the surface in not only not even it is full of holes.
I am not asking about even and not, and you stand correct, in surfaces that are either even or almost paste in my mind is the way to go.
But when the gap is bigger that x what is better?
So today i cleaned the paste with isopropyl alcohol and used a good pad from gelid i think. It is rated as 15W/mK and is 0.5mm thickness.
With external temp of 5 degrees Celsius the cpu was at 78 to 80 degrees after an hour. That is with thermal paste.
With the thermal pad the temperature after an hour is 65 degrees.
The usage is exactly the same at the one hour usage.
Maybe the metallic shield has no contact with the cpu and the pad manages through the holes to have at least some contact and achieve better heat transfer?

Well... some kind of cooling is better than none, that is for sure, but heat sinks are supposed to make full and direct contact with the device and if it can't then I suggest you have mechanical issues to correct rather than thermodynamic ones.

Damn.
I am not asking what is better as a general concept. I am asking what is better for a specific use that there is a shield above the cpu and there is no direct contact.
Anyway mate forget it.

GnFgr said:
Damn.
I am not asking what is better as a general concept. I am asking what is better for a specific use that there is a shield above the cpu and there is no direct contact.
Anyway mate forget it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt you can find many to answer a question on mounting a heat sink in such an improper fashion. Not withstanding, you seem to be convinced that the pad is the right way to go, so I'm not sure why you are asking the question in the first place.

I asked because i wanted to learn what is better. Haven't test both when i asked and thought asking in a forum might find someone that had data on it.
Sorry if i overwhelmed you.
Anyway just forget this thread to the void.
Keep on

Battery drain caused by screen protectors?

I have searched through the internet and I see that similar queries have been raised in the past. Unfortunately, no one seem to have found a definitive answer to this question.
I'll narrate my own experience about this problem, and I will post the solution, if I figure out the cause.
I updated my Samsung phone to OneUI 5.0 about a month back, and I'm seeing that the battery drain is significantly more than what it used to be on OneUI 4.x. During the 1st week, I thought that this could be due to some software optimization related background activities (which typically shouldn't require more than 2 charge cycles), but the battery drain continues to be bad even after a month, and probably getting worse.
When going through battery stats, I can't see anything unusual. But the battery just drains. Idle drain is now over 2 to 3% per hour, compared to about 1% earlier on OneUI 4.x.
My phone setup hasn't really changed from before the update. This makes it difficult to find out the cause of battery drain.
Looking back, the two other changes that coincided with the 5.0 update is that I installed a new screen protector (plastic film), and tried a new case. I have been using my phone without a screen protector until now, but this is not something I want to continue doing.
I have removed the case now to see if there is any improvement in battery life. If there is none, my next option would be to remove the screen protector too, just to test it out.
Since I'm noticing idle battery drain even with AOD off, I guess the screen protector isn't the issue.
Does anyone think that screen protectors or back cases can indeed be a cause of battery drain?

No. Screen protectors don't increase battery drain. A case could if it reduces the signal strength ie a case with metal. Carbon fiber is also an excellent electromagnetic shield. I doubt any actually use real carbon fiber though.
All Samsung's should be optimized by hand. Every time you upgrade the firmware you change the playing field. If optimized you risk screwing that up bad. I'm still running One UI 1.5 on this N10+, with a new battery I easily get 12+ hours SOT. I'd rather have the better performance and SOT than the new features especially scoped storage.

blackhawk said:
No. Screen protectors don't increase battery drain. A case could if it reduces the signal strength ie a case with metal. Carbon fiber is also an excellent electromagnetic shield. I doubt any actually use real carbon fiber though.
All Samsung's should be optimized by hand. Every time you upgrade the firmware you change the playing field. If optimized you risk screwing that up bad. I'm still running One UI 1.5 on this N10+, with a new battery I easily get 12+ hours SOT. I'd rather have the better performance and SOT than the new features especially scoped storage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using the thinnest case (Spigen Thin Fit) and there are no metal part to it.
If I add up the battery % drained by the listed apps (as shown under Settings/ Battery), it won't explain even half of the actual battery drain. So what is draining the remaining battery?
I have tried a few of the suggestions I found online (turning off NFC, UWB, Suspend execution of cached apps, etc.), but none of that helped. I have gone through the other settings as well, and have pretty much tried all the usual stuff, with no improvement in results.
As with Scoped Storage, it is a welcome change. I would be happy if they provided even more control to the user, than open everything up for apps. You can take a look at this post.

TheMystic said:
I'm using the thinnest case (Spigen Thin Fit) and there are no metal part to it.
If I add up the battery % drained by the listed apps (as shown under Settings/ Battery), it won't explain even half of the actual battery drain. So what is draining the remaining battery?
I have tried a few of the suggestions I found online (turning off NFC, UWB, Suspend execution of cached apps, etc.), but none of that helped. I have gone through the other settings as well, and have pretty much tried all the usual stuff, with no improvement in results.
As with Scoped Storage, it is a welcome change. I would be happy if they provided even more control to the user, than open everything up for apps. You can take a look at this post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You including the display and Gookill play Services, Backup Transport? I use Package Disabler and kill about 70 apps then use many setting changes. Google play Services is normally disabled. Global power management is always disabled as it is a menace and battery drain for me. All Google, Samsung, Carrier and app feedback is disabled and/or firewall blocked.
Firebase is disabled. No cloud apps except Gmail, enanled as needed.
Scoped storage wastes cpu cycles, battery and my patience. Not needed if you don't make stupid mistakes.
This stock N10+ is still running on Pie, anything from Pie and above is relatively secure. The current load is over 2.5yo, still fast, stable with minimal maintenance. Last fireware update was 3 years ago. No malware at all during that time. It runs like a bat out of hell; a fast 1.5tb dual drive handheld PC with excellent SOT. What's that tell you?
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Use this settings mod to globally block ads and some blacklisted sites:

As already mentioned screen protectors does not effect battery usage in anyways. Phone does not know if you are using screen protector or not.

TheMystic said:
I'm using the thinnest case (Spigen Thin Fit) and there are no metal part to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung N10+ all the way to the heavy S22U are hard corner hitting, face plant happy fools when dropped. Good multilayered protection and slightly higher than display side guards are needed to protect them adequately. The Zizo Bolt doesn't add much bulk but adds a lot of protection. It never comes apart or off in a multiple impact drop.
I use Gorilla IQ Sheild screen protectors, inexpensive, long lived and use an easy wet apply hydrocell technology.

blackhawk said:
You including the display and Gookill play Services, Backup Transport? I use Package Disabler and kill about 70 apps then use many setting changes. Google play Services is normally disabled. Global power management is always disabled as it is a menace and battery drain for me. All Google, Samsung, Carrier and app feedback is disabled and/or firewall blocked.
Firebase is disabled. No cloud apps except Gmail, enanled as needed.
Scoped storage wastes cpu cycles, battery and my patience. Not needed if you don't make stupid mistakes.
This stock N10+ is still running on Pie, anything from Pie and above is relatively secure. The current load is over 2.5yo, still fast, stable with minimal maintenance. Last fireware update was 3 years ago. No malware at all during that time. It runs like a bat out of hell; a fast 1.5tb dual drive handheld PC with excellent SOT. What's that tell you?
View attachment 5770113
Use this settings mod to globally block ads and some blacklisted sites:
View attachment 5770115
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google apps are important to me and I use Netguard to block internet access to apps that should work offline. I also use adguard dns.
My setup is fine and has been working well for years. OneUI 5.0 is the most likely culprit, and i can't think of anything else apart from the case and screen protector that can also play a role, as these are the only changes that were made before the battery drain problem started.

Dayuser said:
As already mentioned screen protectors does not effect battery usage in anyways. Phone does not know if you are using screen protector or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not about the phone knowing about the screen protector. The query is whether the material used in the screen protector can make the display draw more power than it would without it.

blackhawk said:
Samsung N10+ all the way to the heavy S22U are hard corner hitting, face plant happy fools when dropped. Good multilayered protection and slightly higher than display side guards are needed to protect them adequately. The Zizo Bolt doesn't add much bulk but adds a lot of protection. It never comes apart or off in a multiple impact drop.
I use Gorilla IQ Sheild screen protectors, inexpensive, long lived and use an easy wet apply hydrocell technology.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I prefer to have a minimalistic case, and more so for this phone (S22U) because it is a little too wide. I don't usually drop my phone, and i need the case primarily to protect from scratches and scuffs which are bound to happen over time. I have been using this phone for over 6 months without any screen protector.

TheMystic said:
It is not about the phone knowing about the screen protector. The query is whether the material used in the screen protector can make the display draw more power than it would without it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well screen protectors are mainly made from plastic or glass so..
I don't have seen any posts or news discussions on this but still i don't think screen protectors effect battery life in any way.
If this could be tested then it maybe different story if results are different.

Dayuser said:
Well screen protectors are mainly made from plastic or glass so..
I don't have seen any posts or news discussions on this but still i don't think screen protectors effect battery life in any way.
If this could be tested then it maybe different story if results are different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have used both plastic films as well as tempered glass screen protectors on all my other phones, and never had battery drain issues, except on one occasion.
From the stats I'm unable to figure out what is draining the battery. So trying to see what other factors can potentially cause this problem, and I really can't think of anything else that changed before this problem started.

TheMystic said:
I prefer to have a minimalistic case, and more so for this phone (S22U) because it is a little too wide. I don't usually drop my phone, and i need the case primarily to protect from scratches and scuffs which are bound to happen over time. I have been using this phone for over 6 months without any screen protector.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One drop is all it takes. It may not even be you who drops it. Worse a high G impact can damage the mobo; the BGA's chipsets (the SOC) are particularly susceptible to board flex and high G loading.
Been using the Bolt for 3 years and this N10+ looks new, even the frame. It's taken about a dozen drops onto concrete from 2-4 feet with zero damage.
Lol, now that you cursed yourself you might want to upgrade. The Bolt is grippy but doesn't attract dust so it helps keep the device ports clean too.
It's actually easier to use the N10+ in this case and helps prevent accidental screen touches.

blackhawk said:
One drop is all it takes. It may not even be you who drops it. Worse a high G impact can damage the mobo; the BGA's chipsets (the SOC) are particularly susceptible to board flex and high G loading.
Been using the Bolt for 3 years and this N10+ looks new, even the frame. It's taken about a dozen drops onto concrete from 2-4 feet with zero damage.
Lol, now that you cursed yourself you might want to upgrade. The Bolt is grippy but doesn't attract dust so it helps keep the device ports clean too.
It's actually easier to use the N10+ in this case and helps prevent accidental screen touches.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the Spigen Tough Armour (and some other cases too), but I prefer the Thin Fit and Caseology Parallax case, because both of these provide good protection, are very good looking, and also don't make you feel like you are carrying a brick. The Zizo Bolt case is just too thick and it's design is not to my taste. I would rather use the Spigen Tough Armour instead. I don't like UAG cases either. I prefer sleek looking phones over ones that look like a tank.
As with that unlucky drop you're referring to, I have seen a phone display shattering with the case on. So if it has to be that unlucky, even a good case will not be able to protect it. That said, i agree that the chances of protection is greatly enhanced with a good quality case.
Been using Spigen cases for a very long time and they have done an excellent job (I have dropped my phones a few times, but those are rare). My 6 year old iPhone 7 Plus looks brand new even today with zero scratches or scuffs.

TheMystic said:
I have the Spigen Tough Armour (and some other cases too), but I prefer the Thin Fit and Caseology Parallax case, because both of these provide good protection, are very good looking, and also don't make you feel like you are carrying a brick. The Zizo Bolt case is just too thick and it's design is not to my taste. I would rather use the Spigen Tough Armour instead. I don't like UAG cases either. I prefer sleek looking phones over ones that look like a tank.
As with that unlucky drop you're referring to, I have seen a phone display shattering with the case on. So if it has to be that unlucky, even a good case will not be able to protect it. That said, i agree that the chances of protection is greatly enhanced with a good quality case.
Been using Spigen cases for a very long time and they have done an excellent job (I have dropped my phones a few times, but those are rare). My 6 year old iPhone 7 Plus looks brand new even today with zero scratches or scuffs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't happen often sometimes for months, then twice in one week. Sometimes I miss my cargo pocket, etc. Or forget it was on my lap.
The raised guards save it from drop on a flat surface like concrete.
I've tested that, repeatedly
The displays on Samsung's are at the bottom of everything and not an easy repair. It's the last thing you want to break other than the mobo. Frame replacement is even worse. Best to keep them in one piece.
The N10+ is a wide phone and a slippery fish without a case. Some refuse to case them. If it does take the plunged approach with care as the spen has the quaint habit of jettisoning itself. Don't step on it, always make sure it's still nested

Check this out:
My battery is now at 16%. If I add the usage of apps listed, it comes to less than 50%. So what used up the remaining 34% battery?

TheMystic said:
Check this out:
View attachment 5770255
My battery is now at 16%. If I add the usage of apps listed, it comes to less than 50%. So what used up the remaining 34% battery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The display. Device Care shows it on its second screen. Set brightness to manual and keep it as low as is comfortable. Avoid using in direct sunlight as it also hard on the display. At 30% you'll see a noticeable improvement. Setting to 60hz may also help.

blackhawk said:
The display. Device Care shows it on its second screen. Set brightness to manual and keep it as low as is comfortable. Avoid using in direct sunlight as it also hard on the display. At 30% you'll see a noticeable improvement. Setting to 60hz may also help.
View attachment 5770279View attachment 5770281
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Device Care design has changed a bit on Android 13. I don't see the option to display more information than what you see in the screenshot.
I have maxed out all my Settings like WQHD+, 120 Hz, Auto Brightness, Bluetooth, Location, etc. I don't see a point in buying a premium phone and then setting it up to work like a mid-ranger.
And my battery was fine on OneUI 4.x with the same settings.

TheMystic said:
The Device Care design has changed a bit on Android 13. I don't see the option to display more information than what you see in the screenshot.
I have maxed out all my Settings like WQHD+, 120 Hz, Auto Brightness, Bluetooth, Location, etc. I don't see a point in buying a premium phone and then setting it up to work like a mid-ranger.
And my battery was fine on OneUI 4.x with the same settings.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Improvements" Samsung probably rather you not know how much power these new flagships are sucking down. EVen a 5002 mAh battery doesn't quench its thirst adequately.
Yeah I hear you. It's like mounting Christmas lights and not turning them on.
Try clearing the system cache. Clear system logs with Device Care (I'm still using the version with 360° on it which works very well, I just firewall block it). Sd Maid pro can find junk others can't.
Other than checking and experimenting with the new settings the only other option is a factory reset. You could globally reset all settings for apps which is pretty drastic. Both may not resolve the issue.
Try running in safe mode to rule out 3rd party apps. WhatsApp is a bad one and may not have been correctly updated to play nice with the new firmware.

blackhawk said:
"Improvements" Samsung probably rather you not know how much power these new flagships are sucking down. EVen a 5002 mAh battery doesn't quench its thirst adequately.
Yeah I hear you. It's like mounting Christmas lights and not turning them on.
Try clearing the system cache. Clear system logs with Device Care (I'm still using the version with 360° on it which works very well, I just firewall block it). Sd Maid pro can find junk others can't.
Other than checking and experimenting with the new settings the only other option is a factory reset. You could globally reset all settings for apps which is pretty drastic. Both may not resolve the issue.
Try running in safe mode to rule out 3rd party apps. WhatsApp is a bad one and may not have been correctly updated to play nice with the new firmware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will fully charge my phone and reboot it in Safe Mode and leave it overnight to see how much battery drain occurs. If the battery holds up well (negligible idle drain), then we can say it is some 3rd party app that is draining battery.
Will let you know tomorrow.

TheMystic said:
I will fully charge my phone and reboot it in Safe Mode and leave it overnight to see how much battery drain occurs. If the battery holds up well (negligible idle drain), then we can say it is some 3rd party app that is draining battery.
Will let you know tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Remember the Google system apps are prime suspects and they are still running.
Some pesky 3rd party apps insist on invoking Google play Services whenever they run. It's the game that moves as you play it