Database Info

Ebay Roms and Developers work abused

Hi all,
I've posted about this trash before but now it is really annoying me.
We all do our work here for free and for the better good of the community and those who use these PDA's.
I am so sick of people abusing our work and selling it on Ebay without even a thank you let alone any form of re-imbursement for the hard work we do.
I know it's not piracy, and what we do here is pretty much open-source if you like, but this stuff is really getting on my nerves.
Everytime I go on Ebay and search for PDAs the same trash pops up, some idiot making a fast buck off the back of hard working Developers like us.
The guy is selling a Uni with Laurentius's and mine Rom on it and trying to make an extra £50- £70 for our hard work, since the Uni is normally going for between £160- £200 these days.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....ndexURL=4&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
I have no idea what we can do about it, I am reporting him to Ebay and would be gratefull for the support of the community in doing the same with this guy and others like him.
It ruins this community and really winds me up to the point that I wonder if should even bother any more.
Cheers,
A very p....ssd off Beasty

I am more surprised that people actually paying to buy ROMs which are available for free. Beasty maybe you should be listing the ROMs since people don’t really want to hit the donation icon here. And I will give you a good feedback to get you started.
beast0898 said:
Hi all,
I've posted about this trash before but now it is really annoying me.
We all do our work here for free and for the better good of the community and those who use these PDA's.
I am so sick of people abusing our work and selling it on Ebay without even a thank you let alone any form of re-imbursement for the hard work we do.
I know it's not piracy, and what we do here is pretty much open-source if you like, but this stuff is really getting on my nerves.
Everytime I go on Ebay and search for PDAs the same trash pops up, some idiot making a fast buck off the back of hard working Developers like us.
The guy is selling a Uni with Laurentius's and mine Rom on it and trying to make an extra £50- £70 for our hard work, since the Uni is normally going for between £160- £200 these days.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....ndexURL=4&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
I have no idea what we can do about it, I am reporting him to Ebay and would be gratefull for the support of the community in doing the same with this guy and others like him.
It ruins this community and really winds me up to the point that I wonder if should even bother any more.
MODS PLEASE STICKY THIS
Cheers,
A very p....ssd off Beasty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I don't wish to sell them, and besides that it would be illegal to do so.
My point is that we do this for free and scum bags try to make money for nothing from others contributions to this community.

I know how stupid Microsoft will look if people start selling their modified ROMs. But I did discover one thing when you are pissed you do lose your sense of humor.
beast0898 said:
I don't wish to sell them, and besides that it would be illegal to do so.
My point is that we do this for free and scum bags try to make money for nothing from others contributions to this community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Yes... a lot of time goes in cooking\developing rom's and we are offering this ROM's for free here. How would you feel if we stop doing this!
I have no good words for people who are selling our ROM's on Ebay.

I might have to think about that if you stop making ROM how will I feel? I think then I will have no good words for you. Just kidding I guess then I will be disappointed because I keep coming back to your ROMs and you don’t even appreciate that I go through all that trouble and flash your ROMs. A little bit of appreciation will be nice from you people. No, seriously I do appreciate all the time you spend her and then even let people criticize you. If I was you I would just say “MAKE YOUR OWN BLOODY ROMs IF YOU CAN DO a BETTER JOB”.
Laurentius26 said:
Yes... a lot of time goes in cooking\developing rom's and we are offering this ROM's for free here. How would you feel if we stop doing this!
I have no good words for people who are selling our ROM's on Ebay.
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Click to collapse

And I do appriciate you flash our ROM's my friend
Thank you!
Regards,
Leo
faraz.riaz said:
I might have to think about that if you stop making ROM how will I feel? I think then I will have no good words for you. Just kidding I guess then I will be disappointed because I keep coming back to your ROMs and you don’t even appreciate that I go through all that trouble and flash your ROMs. A little bit of appreciation will be nice from you people. No, seriously I do appreciate all the time you spend her and then even let people criticize you. If I was you I would just say “MAKE YOUR OWN BLOODY ROMs IF YOU CAN DO a BETTER JOB”.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Support
Hi Beasty,
I'm behind you guys 100% on this one, if you come up with a way we can all help then let us know. I guess this arse wipe is a member of this group, can we have him or them removed from it to start with. It might not be illegal to sell it on eBay, but it must be some kind of fraud. As a paramedic I am (when given permission) able to use a persons medical history to further my knowledge, but I've no right to sell it in a book on EBAY if you see my point!!!
Kind regards
Jay

THANK YOU
i would be very pissed off too if i'd work my butt off to get nothing some times not even a "thank you" and other motHer%$$·$% is getting the money for my hard-work. if anyone can come up with some good ideas to avoid this type of persons here in this wonderful comunity would be great (maybe get his IP address somehow and ban him/her for good)
i have no words for all you people that spend many hours cooking and developing, hours that maybe your wife, husband or kids would need or deserve but just think about the 1000s of happy faces we have everytime we flash you piece of artworks or all the countless hours we wait for a new ROM to come out or just the big smile we have in our faces everytime the flash is finished and we see the new ROM for the first time. Just think that he/she migth be making a few bucks, but you have the appreciation, respect, knowledge and the love of many (maybe thousands) of people every single day with every new ROM . To all this you may have notice that english is not my maiden language(im from mexico) but i do want to show you my respects, i wish i could donate but in the country i live...life is not easy and all i can do is say...... !!!!!GRACIAS!!!!!!
BEST REGARDS. Erik.

Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, thats my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended

So Disgusting
This is very disgusting if anyone is doing so........as a members of this community we should really stop this .This forum is for us and we should appriciate our developers for giving us such ROM's........which they develope by contributing their valuable time for us.
I really feel very sad about it.

Hi all,
I have no desire to make money from my work here, or demand donations for anything I contribute, all I request is the common decency from fellow human beings not to ruin this community by exploiting others.
TehPenguin does have a point though, his hosting does cost him money and adds great value to this community, the FTP Server and BugTracker are invaluable (when used correctly) and TehPenguin and this site could really use donations to help them keep running costs down.
TehPenguin said:
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, thats my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I feel so ashamed of myself that I have decided not to download any ROM from your domain for one week. Seriously, did people have a bad weekend because everyone seemed to be pissed off? I am disappointed that you called me a hypocrite because I have been accused of this before and I’m anxiously waiting for someone to come up with something new. Everyone whom posted in this thread will have to send a handsome amount of donation to the “hosting dude” starting with Beasty who started this thread. Honestly, I do agree people should pay a little back to help those who are trying to help others. I think even if everyone pays as little as US $1 it will make a huge difference. I am surprised myself people come up with so many ideas how to change the ROM (Whisper: Most of them are lame) and they are more like demanding. I really don’t get why developers put up with that and I told Beasty that why he’s apologetic.
I do agree that we should do a little something to help. So what you need me to do?
TehPenguin said:
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, thats my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Why don't you guys make a solution
Hey beast,
Why don't you developer make a credits section in your roms that is listing your names and all your comments.
I'm not a developer, but let me give an idea, why don't you create a program, that makes a watermark comment on the todays screen, which makes it clear to everyone that this rom is free and nmt for sale, and calling everyone that purchase this rom to contact you guys through the xda-developers web site.
it is just an idea, and I'm sure that most of the guys here is supporting you and the other developers for the great work

TehPenguin said:
However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
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Click to collapse
Ive found the same when i set up htc-devs.com (when the ftp was wiped of m$ files)
TehPenguin said:
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I concur, In since i started developing my total donations are barely double digits (<£50) people think that things should be handed to them on a golden platter, and when they are not 100% to thier satisfaction that you shoudl put it right, immediately, but they would never consider donating
my 2p

I am not a developer too..or not considering me in that sort of group,because of the amount of time I spend in this (about 1-2hrs a week).
Just customized a Rom to my needs and I will be glad to share if someone wants it,freely!
Every person needs to find a good balance to Private life and Rom Developement,etc.. If this development is such time consuming,calm down..review your time!
Don't pretend donations (they are always appreciated but not to be Pretended or cast something up)
Development (and programming in general) in this forum are passions that we share together..

TehPenguin said:
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, that's my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think ANYONE is being a hypocrite on this thread, we are just supporting developers who have had their work abused and used by another party. I have the greatest admiration for the clever people who develop the amazing Rom's for our chosen PDA, without them our universals would now be an out of date device. I personally provide files and work to the LIMIT of my own abilities, and any rom I feel worth using, then I donate to the developer. I feel thats what this forum is all about. Yes I am guilty of not supporting ANY host of download sites, and was not aware that this puts you out of pocket till now. without the hosts support to this forum it would be useless but it is not unreasonable for people to express their OWN opinion.
Respectfully
Jay

responderman said:
I don't think ANYONE is being a hypocrite on this thread, we are just supporting developers who have had their work abused and used by another party. I have the greatest admiration for the clever people who develop the amazing Rom's for our chosen PDA, without them our universals would now be an out of date device. I personally provide files and work to the LIMIT of my own abilities, and any rom I feel worth using, then I donate to the developer. I feel thats what this forum is all about. Yes I am guilty of not supporting ANY host of download sites, and was not aware that this puts you out of pocket till now. without the hosts support to this forum it would be useless but it is not unreasonable for people to express their OWN opinion.
Respectfully
Jay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats a good point to note as well - Hosting cost me money, but it also costs the people who host this forum money. So, I wonder how many people have noticed the Donate link at the top of this page (near the Wiki link)...

Disagree with Beastie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I totally disagree with Beastie on this matter! If you take a look at the installed software on that Uni it has SPB Finance, Weather and Pocket Plus retailing at 70$ as well as a quite long list of other appz. More than that what we do here isn't fully legal either or at least moral. For example in our ROMs we include software that we do not have a licence or any right to use like MSVoiceCommand, MSOffice, HTC Stuff etc, etc, if you compare this to a PC it would be like buying a PC with Win98 then taking a copy(image) of a friend WinXP(with Office, and other apps) and loading it on your one. Do you thing this is right? And also if someone would do the same and sell this "New" PC complain about it. You develop for your own fun and hobby. If you decided to share something not very moral with others, don't complain when someone does something that is not fully moral by your judgement. Morality or legality of this matter is a subjective matter. And do understand the concept of open source. I'm coming from a Mozilla exdeveloper background. And Mozilla is used in numerous commercial applications with proper credits. You have no right to claim that someone used your work to make money on it, as you are using someone else work in your own interests (name, hobby, any reason). You have your reasons to make just what that guy did for his reasons(in his case money). One thief is judjung another!!! How moral is that??? Of course you do develop your own tools and enchacements, BUT on top of a STOLEN OS!!! Microsoft, HTC,etc invested money and time in their developers, designers, markeing depts. to bring this OS to life, and if they decide they don't want to give it for free it is their choice as a business model. You do not have the right to steal this OS tweak it and claim that it is YOUR and someone should pay you for this. Look a the whole picture not that just some guy used the ROM you dont own but tweaked it and claim it is yours.
PS. Last night i posted my 1st ever ROM on this forum wich is as vanilla as possible(for me), the reasons behind postin it here was exactly that. Anyone can download it and tweak it to his own use, or install new soft one it, new soft keybd, new media player, fast GPS soft etc, etc. I didn't own that OS, I took it of Thingonasping wich took it from someone else. You spend a some time and money in "developing" "your" ROMs, corporations spend billions on that, and someone comes along and steals it. Now that person do not have the need to upgrade his device anymore as "his" new OS will keep him happy for a while. How much damage do you do then to even HTC themselves who didn't sell another unit as their potential customer didn't buy it cos he's got his old device new features(without permision from legal developer).
PS. And how do you know or are so sure that he used "Your" ROM? Maybe he took your kitchen and compiled it, (wich in your view and interpretation), makes it "His" ROM now, isn't it?

I feel sorry for the poor sod who will buy this Universal:
1. As far as legality is concerned, any stolen goods doesn't pass the title of ownership to the buyer. Even though the buyer is unaware of this theft and he/she is innocent, the ownership title doesn't pass to him/her. A case in point about Spb software on the phone, which we are assuming installed on the phone illegally.
2. To add to this the poor sod's nightmare, he/she will be lumbered with Windows Mobile 6 with full of bugs. For sure it won't have video calling.
KOR!

Are devs getting greedy?

Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?

Just allow electronic Darwinism to take its course! If someone is taking the piss, they'll soon die out, if people use common sense and don't encourage them

Most devs that I see, Or rather use ROMS from are quite active and very supportive and NEVER even spoke anything about donation. I was happy to donate for a few of them coz it is really worth it.
I think this opinion you speak of might have been due to your ill luck or some pretty bad devs you have encountered.
I'm not saying you are wrong but I'm saying that your prespective might be due to a unlucky or bad dev (one bad apple) incident.

As far as my phone the Desire Hd is concerned, the developers are still just as helpful and enthusiastic as ever.

There is no developer like a bad or good developer, its because of them 99% of people are using roms without donating, 1 % donates to developers

I know a lot of developer who work on projects for free, but even the developers out there like to drink a beer paid from their projects
-> Donations are welcome!

Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.

tolis626 said:
Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993

Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
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Click to collapse
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)

Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs
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I totally agree with that.

Archer said:
I totally agree with that.
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Click to collapse
As does XDA, hence the rules at present
This is not a platform to make money from. For anyone who cares, I have made a total of £0.00 from XDA. I don't wish to make personal profit from here.
I spend large numbers of hours on the site, doing stuff behind the scenes. If I was to draw up a "bill" for the past year, it would be in the hundreds of thousands of pounds, based on the price I charge for my services.
But I wouldn't ever want to see myself as selling something here. That's not what this site is about! There's plenty of places to sell stuff. If you make your own app, fair enough. If you modify something belonging to someone else, then nope

bwheelies said:
Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?

Ok, I have been trolling here for sometime and have seen some devs who ask for donations. However, the vast majority just contribute their time and hard work for the betterment of the platform and the community as a whole.
As for slow development, I think a lot of that has to do with the phone. I have the SGS 2 and there is active development for that with a lot of great roms. My wife has the 4g Slide and the development is slightly slower. It all comes down to the popularity of the phone.

If devs make a product good enough for people to pay for then good for them. On the other hand, if they ask for donations but their software is crap then no one will buy it.
It's a free market, let them try.
It is alot of work and it requires a special skill set to do what devs do, so I can appreciate them asking for a couple bucks for their trouble.

I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..

Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
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Click to collapse
I agree with Cabe24i.See below.
Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point isn't whether they are allowed to accept money for their work.They surely should put their creations on sale.And exactly here is where I agree with you.ROMs and kernels aren't their work.As good as someone's modifications can be,it's not new code written by them entirely(except for some patches,etc).While their work is and should be rewarded,it should in no way become mandatory that we pay to use it.It should be optional as it is.It's fair for everyone that way.Those who deserve it will get paid,end of story.
Selling apps on XDA is another story,but it's also completely right to do so,as they could just sell those on the market and be done with it.But it's about applications written anew,not modified ones.Did anyone sell a modified copy of a game?I don't think so.
We should show our appreciation to developers,but they should also show us some respect(I am more than content with what's going on here on the dev side,it's XDA's ungrateful noobs that I'm mad with like most of you here).Fraud is a crime after all.

I can see both sides of that argument actually. Whilst I do think it's unreasonable for a developer to request money for merely tweaking a ROM, it's the same as a painter painting your living room. He's not made you a brand new living room from scratch. He's just painted your existing one. That's similar to a ROM tweaker.
That said, I do understand and abide by the rules - I'm not arguing them. Just playing devil's advocate.

lowandbehold said:
My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure if you are asking me. I have a Droid Charge.

F2504x4 said:
I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is one of the best posts I have seen on xda. Judging by this, the developer who posted a no effort ROM in a stagnant phone development scene who says donate and does nothing with the ROM is nothing but a modern day P.T. Barnum.

First of all, you don't have to donate
But I agree with OP it's not done to demand donations to finish work.
If your work is good and you support it well, possibilities for a donation are much higher.
But it is no guarantee for donations.
But isn't respect from others the best payment for your work? That's the reason I do my share for the community

Extremely disappointed with the android community

I just need to vent. I'm a fairly active developer for the android platform. I've created a number of kernel patches and applications that I have released at no charge to the community for about 10 or so devices.
All this I do in my "spare time", which I have very little of because I am a full time professional student who takes on 32 credit hour semesters.
Recently, since my 1994 geo prizm is literally falling apart and I was hoping to scrounge together a little bit of money to get a new car so I don't end up stranded on my way to class, I decided to release a paid application. Fastcharge / Force AC toggle which allows you to toggle on and off the force AC feature. A feature which I have personally implemented and released source patches for on a number of devices.
Not only in every thread where I released the patch on a device did I write up how to toggle the feature through the command line, but I also stated that I also implemented a toggle into my completely free application that you can also download from the market, IncrediControl.
In good faith and knowing how annoying licensing is, I elected to not include licensing in my application. This is a huge regret.
Within a couple days of releasing the application to the market I googled it to see if anyone was talking about it. One of the first links was to a piracy site where a user was requesting the widget, to which another user obliged and posted the apk to a filesharing site. Doing something I never though I would have to do, I filed a DMCA takedown request, which was answered quickly and the app was taken down. Monitoring the thread, every single time a link gets taken down, another user requests the app and the original user reuploads it, most recently to 11 different sites.
So now, after filing dozens of takedown requests. This user has decided to unzip my apk, change out the artwork, and now is going around releasing it as his own work.
Really, all this to avoid paying $1.50 (only ~$1 of it actually going to me) to an individual whose yearly income is low enough that he doesn't have to file taxes?
This disgusts me.
This is even worse than the 50% "order cancellation rate" that the widget has. I'm not stupid, I know exactly what users are doing, but yet initially I was willing to ignore it. But this has gone too far.
What is even the point of pissing off a developer so much that he is considering saying screw the platform all together? It doesn't even make sense. We, the developers improve your devices, generally at little or no cost, and this is how we're repaid. With ~50% of current users of the application having pirated it. To avoid paying just over $1.
Now before someone even counters with the "my area doesn't support paid applications" argument I've actually gladly GIVEN the widget away to a number of users who casually mentioned in the release threads that they couldn't download it for this reason. Not to mention, everyone knows there are apps that unlock the market in these areas to be able to purchase apps.
How much more generous can a developer be than to provide source code patches for a feature, provide information on how to toggle the feature, provide a COMPLETELY FREE way to toggle the feature, and then charge a measly $1.50 for a secondary, slightly more convenient way to toggle.
Yet he's repaid like this .

Of course, this must suck for a developer like you. Unfortunately, it seems to happen more and more often, and all I can really say is:
I would gladly pay a few bucks for an application like IC or BootManager. That BootManager seemed really interesting, but we can't buy apps from the Play Store without CC (and as a 16-year old, I don't have one). I asked the developer if he accepted Paypal, but he didn't.
Don't get me wrong, and this is not an attack to you personally: developers, if you made something really nice, and people will like it, 70% of the people will gladly pay for it, just make sure you allow them to.

Chaosz-X said:
70% of the people will gladly pay for it, just make sure you allow them to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I honestly thought this was the case. It's really not. The problem is much worse than that. If 70% of users in the root community paid for apps it would be astonishing. Its made pretty clear by the number of users who download the app, back it up and then cancel the order.
If a 16 year old kid had made me that offer, the e-mail reply I sent would have the apk attached.

Well, that is a real flaw of Android: tweakability is really impressing, but these things make it really difficult to earn some money as a developer.
We have been thinking about anti-piracy measures as well, with stuff such as authentication with a server, and locking down the code and verifying integrity of APKs and stuff to make sure it's really hard to mess with the code, but it's just sad that there's a need for these measures..

The trouble is everything has piracy right from movies to game consoles through to mobiles and music.
I mean the iPhones appstore would be a hell of a lot bigger if there was no jailbreaking and installous.
Every platform has been cracked so you'll get it regardless of what you develop for.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA

I think you know you just needed to vent but can I change your picture.
There are some people in this world who just don't buy the idea of an idea as property. That's not compatible with this business model. That's the first problem.
The next problem is that
there's a million and one apps out there and which one are we going to choose? Where does it start, where does it end? We all have our limits. What's yours?
For me, the app has to be something very unique and possible generate me cash. For example something I use every day at work. If it's something that the phone should do anyway I tend to skip it and save the $1 for the next phone that does it out of the box. Your app is a great thing, but there's many utility apps out there. It just doesn't fall into the kind of thing I'd cave my strict budgeting for. There are people here with a 1000 apps installed and you expect them to pay $1000 in this sense.
Another way would be having utility in the cloud and then the app is free. Another one of course, advertising.
The difference with both of these is we don't need to risk a credit card with the market. That's the main reason I personally haven't bought many apps and I'd imagine it's a problem for minors too.
The very community that allowed us to create the app fails to pay for it's products is like life itself.
I'd say make something for the iphone instead because there's more profit there but that would never have been possible, see what I'm saying? That's the 3rd problem.
So you've got 3 problems there all converging into one big push towards piracy. But remember, can your app assure security that the pirated version cannot for example? This is how one has to think.
In short,
you can't do something and hope to make a bit from it on the side. You got to go out from the start and get the money aspect central from the start. I mean, that's business and of course that's exactly what the android community works hard to free us from.
Still, summarising those 3 points for suggestion:
- offer something free things can't (i.e. security, brand etc) For example, I never run pirated stuff for fear of insecurity on my data whereas I'll try out software that way on an old PC
- can always put a service in the cloud aka the javascript trap
- iphone is there if you want...
- needs to "the one app" a certain person would pay for, not something everyone likes
Also just to make that point again, if one does not believe in property then inconveniently there is no moral crime here. I suggest learn to live with this and go with the flow

I hope google sells PlayStore cards (like itunes cards) that allows user to buy apps, music, movies, books without a credit card. I really want to buy some amazing apps but i dont have a credit card so i just use free apps. I think that if u cant buy an app that cant be a reason to piracy or sidedownload that app.

jago25_98 said:
For me, the app has to be something very unique and possible generate me cash. For example something I use every day at work. If it's something that the phone should do anyway I tend to skip it and save the $1 for the next phone that does it out of the box. Your app is a great thing, but there's many utility apps out there. It just doesn't fall into the kind of thing I'd cave my strict budgeting for. There are people here with a 1000 apps installed and you expect them to pay $1000 in this sense.
Another way would be having utility in the cloud and then the app is free. Another one of course, advertising.
The difference with both of these is we don't need to risk a credit card with the market. That's the main reason I personally haven't bought many apps and I'd imagine it's a problem for minors too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The feature is 100% unique and so is the widget. Not to mention, if you didn't want to pay the $1, I provided a free way to toggle the feature in the utility app. The point is, that there is nothing forcing people to pay for the widget to use the feature. But instead of using the free option provided, they not only pirate the paid app, but edit the artwork and release it for free as their own. It defies logic.
Also, ad based apps don't work with the rooted community. I learned that early on. Myfree utility app is ad supported. With over 40,000 installs you would think it would make even a dollar a day. Nope, makes nearly nothing. That's when I realized that the same niche I was marketing to are the same people who block ads. Even if someone didn't want to block ads, they can't install a single ROM that doesn't include an ad blocking hosts file out of the box.

chad0989 said:
[...] How much more generous can a developer be than to provide source code patches for a feature, provide information on how to toggle the feature, provide a COMPLETELY FREE way to toggle the feature, and then charge a measly $1.50 for a secondary, slightly more convenient way to toggle.
Yet he's repaid like this .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Be sure you're looking at all sides. Yes, you're in a losing war with guys intent on pirating your app. You can't stop them, and well, you goofed on the licensing, so someone will no doubt release the clone.
First of all, don't do the Big Media thing and assume that everybody that pirates your app would have paid for it if it hadn't been available. A lot of folks collect, or just try something once. You'll only work yourself into a funk thinking about all that money you "would" have if only they hadn't been able to pirate it. They wouldn't have. At least not all of them.
More importantly, be aware that placing something out there with value does reach folks that otherwise would have no idea of you or your plight. More than once, I've purchased an app that I don't really need, but found clever and cheap enough I can buy it without thinking about the investment. I've spent more on Android software at $1-15 over the last year than I did over the last 25+ at $30-100 a pop. I've only refunded an app once, by accident.
Finally, be up front about your situation. A guy trying to make do does influence my impulse buying. So does his reputation. If you're doing a lot, be sure that's clear on your app page, and let us know clearly you're the guy that also brought us whatever.
I am curious, though: How much did you actually bring in?

Chad- thanks for telling your story, I agree that you have every right to be disappointed. Especially the buying and refunding, that to me send almost worse because you can't stop dedicated pirating, but I would have hoped the rest would have bought the app.
It's easy to forget the human side of development, so thanks for sharing your side.

Jesus christ Chad. This is f$%&*#@ ridiculous. Probably the best and most generous kernel dev I have ever come into contact with, and people are cheating you out of 1.50. Please don't abandon Android. I need kernels when I get my rezound! but in all seriousness, warez needs to stop.
Sent from my ADR6400L

Yep. Sucks. After getting serious about android , which wasn't too far in, joining with a nexus one and seeing all the free HARD work we get, I definitely try buying stuff I use. If I can't pay sometimes I will see if dev does something else I can donate to. Its an issue I've thought about and part of it really boils down to how sorry people are in general. They want free and cheap. $1 is laughable even when it can be easily had for free. You really should market yourself a bit even though you don't want to. And people should really put a complimentary $5 or so budget a month or more and try to support devs. Maybe if you have something he gave free but has an app you won't use for a buck, buy the dollar app and uninstall after the 15 minute period. Or throw him a 5 through PayPal or something. Its simple really. If these devs don't have to resort to ramen and water they keep dev'ing especially for the community supporting him or her. And if they're eating vegetables and have plenty of red bull money it gives them wings. Otoh, the devs that make us pay to reinstall an app after we bought it on another or lost our phone suck. Balls. Won't buys theirs anymore.
teach a man to fish, you feed him for life. teach a man to fastboot, and you create competency. and less threads on xda.

Maybe you should implement a system like some developers do where you download the app for free with a time limited trail, then they would go to another website to pay for the app to unlock it, and the unlock codes would be unique for every user which would minimize piracy.
Sent from my GT-N7000 Samsung Galaxy Note "Go big or go home" using XDA app

rafa6571 said:
I hope google sells PlayStore cards (like itunes cards) that allows user to buy apps, music, movies, books without a credit card. I really want to buy some amazing apps but i dont have a credit card so i just use free apps. I think that if u cant buy an app that cant be a reason to piracy or sidedownload that app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the Netherlands we have prepaid Visa card.
Works well.
Maybe you google something similar in your own country.
(3V prepaid Visa cards)

That does suck but if someone wants to pirate an app even licencing doesn't stop them as there is an app that apparently patches licence checks.
It is so easy for even a non root and new user to find cracked apps, I have seen links on here and even on peoples facebook sites, it's got to the point where people can just browse a webpage and click a link to get the cracked version of an app.
Unfortunately if someone wants to crack it they can. Unless you could implement your own security check somehow, something obfuscated in the code, licencing is the only alternative as it would stop people using backed up cancelled versions at least.
Unfortunately it seems a lot of people just don't want to pay for apps.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk

also have to look at both sides. some people just refuse to pay for **** whatever it is, or get it as cheaply as they can. being android apps, the free route is how they're going to go. but the other side, you hsould be grateful for all the people that do pay. they're the ones helping keeping google, open source, android and everything in between chugging along. open source is the future and you can tell every corporation i said that. and thanks for you your work even though i've never used it.

jago25_98 said:
...
Also just to make that point again, if one does not believe in property then inconveniently there is no moral crime here. I suggest learn to live with this and go with the flow
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is plenty to disagree with in your post as it all seems like an attempt at rationalizing ways to get around the system. This last statement is a ridiculous attempt at summarizing why stealing is OK. Your morals don't define the crime, the law does. Stealing property, physical or intellectual, is not legal and not right regardless of your morals or lack of.
Chad,
I am sorry to hear of your products' abuse. I used your kernels all the time on my Incredible devices and bought IncrediControl to support development. I have purchased many applications just to support development and believe that is the way to get high quality applications.

Piracy is just so damn easy on Android. I know ppl that are doing it who I wouldn't even expect to be doing such a thing. This guy I know love android only because he can get everything free by just googling the apk.

awww thats sad i feel really bad for you!

I've used pre paid visa debit cards to buy apps. You can find them in Any money shop like Cheque cashing places for example. You can even just stick a dicky diver (£5) on them. Perfect for situations like this
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium

[DISCUSSION][OT] Freedom Of Speech Thread - Share Your OT Opinion

This thread is OT. It is a place for the freedom of speech.
I believe that XDA needs such a place more than ever.
Here you can discuss and share your opinion about ANY matter. No censorship here, as long as you follow the standard rules of conduct you are also using in the real world. You can share your opinion, even if some won’t agree/won’t like it, as long as you are still polite in the way you express yourself.
*****​
As a starter i want to bring up a topic that does bother many of you too for sure. It’s about that XDA is becoming a place where people come to make money more and more. One thing that concerns me most of all at the moment is the current S-OFF situation of several devices.
This text here was made by me and @neniick and it represents our opinion about something, that could not have been discussed anywhere for a long time now, although it’s a topic up-to-the-minute.
We dont want to disrespect jcase or beaups or any dev for that matter, we all know they put hours of work into these exploits to get it working and make it user friendly.
BUT they sell their product, and they ask a way too high amount for it. We get that they need to buy phones and tools for these exploits, their website/ hosting costs etc, but think about it, if only 1000 people use sunshine, they get $25000(!). Thats just insane. Also, this is not xda sharing anymore, this is pure business. Business because they can. Because they are the only ones able to do this.
And for us, the argument that their work is of a “higher” quality than the work/contributions of others is invalid in our opinion. We believe in SHARING. Everyone gives the community what he is CAPABLE of. There is NO need to distinguish the “deliverables”. Every dev/modder/whatever contributes time in his own way. BUT NO ONE charges anything for it. You can donate if you want to of course, but no one is allowed to CHARGE something. It just doesn’t match the spirit of XDA. Something that was possible only some time ago, is now not “possible” anymore to be shared for free… C’mon.
We really think xda is going down the way things are going right now. We would not use sunshine s-off, since it goes just against what XDA stands for (or at least once did), and that should not be supported. People are abusing their monopoly. It's about making money. Not about helping/doing it for the community anymore, don't even mention "sharing". Of course nobody owes anything to anyone here.
But that's exactly the point. They don't owe us s-off, but also, they should not be allowed to sell it here. There are xda rules applying to everyone, no matter what they do/share here. No matter if you are a simple member or a mega-dev/mega-ultra-mod.
But mysteriously, with sunshine it gets tolerated. Remember revone/moonshine/rumrunner s-off solutions? They were all free. You could donate if you wanted to show your appreciation. But what happens now is monopolization. And greed. And we don't think this is fair. And we won't support it. This is simple abuse of "market position". Also we won’t just shut up about it.
That you can't say anything about/against it anymore without being attacked/censored/etc. anymore... It proves everything we said. We most likely will get nearly banned for this statement now and these open words. And that's exactly what should make us start thinking people. We need to start a discussion here.
We won't go s-off this way. We just can't stand this behaviour anymore. And we think many of you guys are thinking the same way.
We should set an example against capitalism on xda. Capitalism that does not even try to hide anymore.
Now we would really like to hear about the opinions of you guys

Seriously, you opened a thread to basically cry about 25˘$?
I hope @jcase or @beaups raise it to 30$ just to piss you off :laugh:

I don't believe he was crying while typing his opinion. You don't need to worry, he doesn't seem depressed.
I think they have all the right in the world to sell their product for the price they want. Just not in XDA, because those have been the rules for as long as I am a member and I remember some devs from HD2 being expelled from here for similar reasons.

ivicask said:
Seriously, you opened a thread to basically cry about 25˘$?
I hope @jcase or @beaups raise it to 30$ just to piss you off [emoji23]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you would have read the statement closely, you would have realized that it's not about the amount. They can charge 100$ if they want to. But not on XDA then. This is my opinion.
Edit: Also this thread is not only meant to cry about s-off. It should be a space where your opinion has a right to stay. So please, either discuss with us or don't. But it's not about provoke here.

I am going to happily pay mu $25 when the M9 exploit is out, they could easily sit on whatever exploit they have had to basically make public (indirectly) and those exploits could themselves be worth thousands.

Electronic Punk said:
I am going to happily pay mu $25 when the M9 exploit is out, they could easily sit on whatever exploit they have had to basically make public (indirectly) and those exploits could themselves be worth thousands.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get your point. But don't you think XDA should not furnish the advertising space for a profit-orientated organization? I have seen devs get banned for less...
Here on XDA i'd like to see voluntarily shared stuff.

ivicask said:
Seriously, you opened a thread to basically cry about 25˘$?
I hope @jcase or @beaups raise it to 30$ just to piss you off :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its not only about the price. its also about that they have a monopoly position on s-off atm and that they have a certain status on xda which puts them in a position where they can do/ask whatever they want. and yes of course there would be a lot less people having problems with this if the price was a bit lower.

herwegan said:
I get your point. But don't you think XDA should not furnish the advertising space for a profit-orientated organization? I have seen devs get banned for less...
Here on XDA i'd like to see voluntarily shared stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What type of software would you expect to see discussed/promoted/advertised in the "Paid Software Announcement and Discussion" forum?
--beaups

herwegan said:
This thread is OT. It is a place for the freedom of speech.
I believe that XDA needs such a place more than ever.
Here you can discuss and share your opinion about ANY matter. No censorship here, as long as you follow the standard rules of conduct you are also using in the real world. You can share your opinion, even if some won’t agree/won’t like it, as long as you are still polite in the way you express yourself.
*****​
As a starter i want to bring up a topic that does bother many of you too for sure. It’s about that XDA is becoming a place where people come to make money more and more. One thing that concerns me most of all at the moment is the current S-OFF situation of several devices.
This text here was made by me and @neniick and it represents our opinion about something, that could not have been discussed anywhere for a long time now, although it’s a topic up-to-the-minute.
We dont want to disrespect jcase or beaups or any dev for that matter, we all know they put hours of work into these exploits to get it working and make it user friendly.
BUT they sell their product, and they ask a way too high amount for it. We get that they need to buy phones and tools for these exploits, their website/ hosting costs etc, but think about it, if only 1000 people use sunshine, they get $25000(!). Thats just insane. Also, this is not xda sharing anymore, this is pure business. Business because they can. Because they are the only ones able to do this.
And for us, the argument that their work is of a “higher” quality than the work/contributions of others is invalid in our opinion. We believe in SHARING. Everyone gives the community what he is CAPABLE of. There is NO need to distinguish the “deliverables”. Every dev/modder/whatever contributes time in his own way. BUT NO ONE charges anything for it. You can donate if you want to of course, but no one is allowed to CHARGE something. It just doesn’t match the spirit of XDA. Something that was possible only some time ago, is now not “possible” anymore to be shared for free… C’mon.
We really think xda is going down the way things are going right now. We would not use sunshine s-off, since it goes just against what XDA stands for (or at least once did), and that should not be supported. People are abusing their monopoly. It's about making money. Not about helping/doing it for the community anymore, don't even mention "sharing". Of course nobody owes anything to anyone here.
But that's exactly the point. They don't owe us s-off, but also, they should not be allowed to sell it here. There are xda rules applying to everyone, no matter what they do/share here. No matter if you are a simple member or a mega-dev/mega-ultra-mod.
But mysteriously, with sunshine it gets tolerated. Remember revone/moonshine/rumrunner s-off solutions? They were all free. You could donate if you wanted to show your appreciation. But what happens now is monopolization. And greed. And we don't think this is fair. And we won't support it. This is simple abuse of "market position". Also we won’t just shut up about it.
That you can't say anything about/against it anymore without being attacked/censored/etc. anymore... It proves everything we said. We most likely will get nearly banned for this statement now and these open words. And that's exactly what should make us start thinking people. We need to start a discussion here.
We won't go s-off this way. We just can't stand this behaviour anymore. And we think many of you guys are thinking the same way.
We should set an example against capitalism on xda. Capitalism that does not even try to hide anymore.
Now we would really like to hear about the opinions of you guys
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the topic misses the real purpose of this thread, this thread is not about off topic, it should have been about the fact that people use the xda community to make money.
The whole idea of xda was allowing developers to express themselves and contribute to the community, by volunteering to do so. This drew a lot of people with variaty of skills and knowledge to contribute as well with reviews, opinions and more. The community would then donate to the contributors who invest large amount of their free time to encourage them to continue.
That's what made xda successful.
The case with the s-off is just non-sense, the developers of sunshine, with the skills they have, used the contributors and knowledge of xda to make profit for themselves, this is pure selfishness. They were not only benefited from xda, they even included some of chainfire's work in their product, the supersu.
The most annoying thing is that some of the community think they deserve it, well, imagine how the other contributors who have their work for free must feel, they must have been expecting to benefit from the other contributors' work as well, the feeling must be unfair.
I ask the managers of xda to think about it, and disallow profit making at xda, except for donations of course, which is common at many other forums and crucial for the community to keep growing.

Yep.
For what was created that section if not for paid software?
C'mon guys

beaups said:
What type of software would you expect to see discussed/promoted/advertised in the "Paid Software Announcement and Discussion" forum?
--beaups
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cyrusct82 said:
Yep.
For what was created that section if not for paid software?
C'mon guys
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the place/paid section itself that should not exist imo. If your argument was valid, every single contributor could just post his work there in this section and charge something for it.. Imagine what the XDA community would become then... We don't want that. And the point is: the other contributors don't have their threads in this sections. We want to stop this movement and come back to the XDA spirit. Sharing. Voluntary. And if you don't feel like sharing, just don't. But let's not make XDA a place of profit.

herwegan said:
It's the place/paid section itself that should not exist imo. If your argument was valid, every single contributor could just post his work there in this section and charge something for it.. Imagine what the XDA community would become then... We don't want that. And the point is: the other contributors don't have their threads in this sections. We want to stop this movement and come back to the XDA spirit. Sharing. Voluntary. And if you don't feel like sharing, just don't. But let's not make XDA a place of profit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes SHARING
And some clever guys that make money from the work of devs like @beaups and @jcase repacking their software and making money out of it. (It was happened in the past with their software).

cyrusct82 said:
Yes SHARING
And some clever guys that make money from the work of devs like @beaups and @jcase repacking their software and making money out of it. (It was happened in the past with their software).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm fine with paying for s-off, even 25$ or whatever they ask for it. Also fine with them making a profit out of this if that's the case.
Problem I have with it is why is it 25? Because that's a pretty high price for something that could be achieved by free software in the past.
Maybe beaups or jcase would be so kind to shed some light on the costs/time/etc they put into this? so that us users can better understand what it takes to develop this.

neniick said:
I'm fine with paying for s-off, even 25$ or whatever they ask for it. Also fine with them making a profit out of this if that's the case.
Problem I have with it is why is it 25? Because that's a pretty high price for something that could be achieved by free software in the past.
Maybe beaups or jcase would be so kind to shed some light on the costs/time/etc they put into this? so that us users can better understand what it takes to develop this.
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Click to collapse
Why does the price needs to be discussed?
HTC didn't discuss with me before asking a hefty 769 euros for the M9 in my country?/
If I believe that any price is worthy for what it gives me, I will buy the service or product, if not, I wont.
It doesn't get more simple than that.

RollingSnowBall said:
I think the topic misses the real purpose of this thread, this thread is not about off topic, it should have been about the fact that people use the xda community to make money.
The whole idea of xda was allowing developers to express themselves and contribute to the community, by volunteering to do so. This drew a lot of people with variaty of skills and knowledge to contribute as well with reviews, opinions and more. The community would then donate to the contributors who invest large amount of their free time to encourage them to continue.
That's what made xda successful.
The case with the s-off is just non-sense, the developers of sunshine, with the skills they have, used the contributors and knowledge of xda to make profit for themselves, this is pure selfishness. They were not only benefited from xda, they even included some of chainfire's work in their product, the supersu.
The most annoying thing is that some of the community think they deserve it, well, imagine how the other contributors who have their work for free must feel, they must have been expecting to benefit from the other contributors' work as well, the feeling must be unfair.
I ask the managers of xda to think about it, and disallow profit making at xda, except for donations of course, which is common at many other forums and crucial for the community to keep growing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems weird coming from a user of 4 days on XDA.
Care to shed some light on this? Was there a previous account you were using and if so why aren't you using it at present?

neniick said:
I'm fine with paying for s-off, even 25$ or whatever they ask for it. Also fine with them making a profit out of this if that's the case.
Problem I have with it is why is it 25? Because that's a pretty high price for something that could be achieved by free software in the past.
Maybe beaups or jcase would be so kind to shed some light on the costs/time/etc they put into this? so that us users can better understand what it takes to develop this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We've shared some of our costs and time investments dozens of times and frankly, we shouldn't have to. Most of that free software in the past you referenced was also developed by some of the same people behind SunShine (myself included).
--beaups

RollingSnowBall said:
I think the topic misses the real purpose of this thread, this thread is not about off topic, it should have been about the fact that people use the xda community to make money.
The whole idea of xda was allowing developers to express themselves and contribute to the community, by volunteering to do so. This drew a lot of people with variaty of skills and knowledge to contribute as well with reviews, opinions and more. The community would then donate to the contributors who invest large amount of their free time to encourage them to continue.
That's what made xda successful.
The case with the s-off is just non-sense, the developers of sunshine, with the skills they have, used the contributors and knowledge of xda to make profit for themselves, this is pure selfishness. They were not only benefited from xda, they even included some of chainfire's work in their product, the supersu.
The most annoying thing is that some of the community think they deserve it, well, imagine how the other contributors who have their work for free must feel, they must have been expecting to benefit from the other contributors' work as well, the feeling must be unfair.
I ask the managers of xda to think about it, and disallow profit making at xda, except for donations of course, which is common at many other forums and crucial for the community to keep growing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Get your facts straight.
1.) We used no "contributors and knowledge of xda to make" profit. We developed SunShine with our own research and nothing to do with XDA.
2.) We don't include SuperSU with SunShine, or any other work from CF.

ivicask said:
Seriously, you opened a thread to basically cry about 25˘$?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its XDA since did we lose the right to open threads? in the most general areas non the less
may I remind you that it's 25$ per device. how many times do you exchange your device? whether for warranty, a weaker chip set or maybe for desiring a different color, everytime you do so, in order to have full firmware flashing functionality you will need to repay the amount, if your family members bought a bad import and you need to do them a favor, well you guess it you have to pay it again
the reason why HTC owners want s-off so bad, is that a vital part of the flashing functionality are linked to s-off, such as modem firmware or downgrade
more importantly SO many countries still faill to support paypal
now let's talk about fairplay, how many kernel devs out there; who sweat under our daily cries; provide their kernels exclusively for money? and i can go on about every single soul sweating time and blood for contributing in this community
alas clap blindly

beaups said:
2.) We don't include SuperSU with SunShine, or any other work from CF.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yawn, I have permission to distributing SuperSU if I wish to.
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I asked for it explicitly because I know someone would try to accuse me of stealing his work at somepoint, didn't think it would be someone on XDA but w/e.
ChainFire is one of the few "internet people" I've met. Great guy, living in a beautiful country.

myself11 said:
I think they have all the right in the world to sell their product for the price they want. Just not in XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this wasnt this always the rule? why bend it now?
now punish us for saying our opinion

How do 3rd-party 'unlockers' (money ripoffs) get your phone's Bootloader Codes?

Recently I came across this issue, since I just recently bought this phone. Usually I will root my phones as soon as I get them, by following the excellent guides in XDA here, but this time, I didn't do much research before getting this phone (Mate 20 X). Aside from this unlocking bootloader issue, I like this phone and I hand-picked this from my list of options because it ticked what I was looking for in my new purchase - big battery, IR and 3.5" audio jack. Plus the latest 7nm 980 Kirin processor is a nice hardware to have. (I had Mi Max 2 before, but had some issues.)
I don't intend to pay any 3rd party and pay prohibitively expensive money to unlock my phone. It's absurd how much they are ripping off the people and on the other hand, I'm surprised how much people are willing to throw money at these dubious sites. Now crossing 100++ USD!!?? What the....
Anyway, back to my question :
1. How do these sites get YOUR phone's codes? I'm sure they are not paying Huawei to get your codes. If not from Huawei, then how are they able to obtain the codes just by having the serial number and IMEI numbers?
2. I hope it's just a matter of time before XDA developers can find out how they do this so that this can be shared with the community so that we can continue unlocking like how we used to do before with other phones.
This is an enthusiast community, not some dumb people who are ready to throw money to some 3rd party hackers to get your codes.
And looking at the latest developments, most of these dubious sites have ceased providing the service....wonder why. Something's fishy here. And prices are shooting up, no doubt, fueled by so many people ready to throw money for them.
I am not a developer but always follow the guides written by excellent deveopers in XDA. It's fun and educational that way. We all have paid for the phones ourselves. Tinkering with our phones is our hobby.
I wish people won't rush to pay and get 3rd party questionable "unlockers" spoil the spirit of XDA.
EDIT : Edited title.

amgreenhawk said:
Recently I came across this issue since I just recently bought this phone. Usually, I will root my phones as soon as I get them, by following the excellent guides in XDA here, but this time, I didn't do much research before getting this phone (Mate 20 X). Aside from this unlocking bootloader issue, I like this phone and I hand-picked this from my list of options because it ticked what I was looking for in my new purchase - big battery, IR and 3.5" audio jack. Plus the latest 7nm 980 Kirin processor is a nice hardware to have. (I had Mi Max 2 before, but had some issues.)
I don't intend to pay any 3rd party and pay prohibitively expensive money to unlock my phone. It's absurd how much they are ripping off the people and on the other hand, I'm surprised how much people are willing to throw money at these dubious sites. Now crossing 100++ USD!!?? What the....
Anyway, back to my question :
1. How do these sites get YOUR phone's codes? I'm sure they are not paying Huawei to get your codes. If not from Huawei, then how are they able to obtain the codes just by having the serial number and IMEI numbers?
2. I hope it's just a matter of time before XDA developers can find out how they do this so that this can be shared with the community so that we can continue unlocking like how we used to do before with other phones.
This is an enthusiast community, not some dumb people who are ready to throw money to some 3rd party hackers to get your codes.
And looking at the latest developments, most of these dubious sites have ceased providing the service....wonder why. Something's fishy here. And prices are shooting up, no doubt, fueled by so many people ready to throw money for them.
I am not a developer but always follow the guides written by excellent deveopers in XDA. It's fun and educational that way. We all have paid for the phones ourselves. Tinkering with our phones is our hobby.
I wish people won't rush to pay and get 3rd party questionable "unlockers" spoil the spirit of XDA.
EDIT : Edited title.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt that anybody can provide unlock code without inside information/certain servers approach. If that hadn't been true, xda would have the code a long time ago.
What raises two issues. The first one is why Huawei changed its policy regarding AL00 bootloader after it was already on the market. Huawei had known all implications of unlocked bootloader a long time ago, that is the reason why it had stopped providing codes for other models recently.
It could be assumed that Huawei lured buyers to went for this model because they believe that it is only with unlocked bootloader and it will stay that way. A lot of buyers had wanted an unlocked bootloader, otherwise, they would have taken the international model which required fairly less customization.
Locking bootloader out of the blue and then enabling trading it through middlemen for huge extra profits is at least unfair to the buyers.
And there could be more. Is it possible that sudden change toward locking bootloader arise from the temptation to control users? That stuff that is basically what US accused Huawei and what makes discomfort even in more countries?
Finally, there is one question for xda, too. Until recently xda was a synonym for a free exchange of knowledge, solutions, software. Basically, almost everything I know about Android, phones, hacking, I've got from xda. And if I have something to share, I do it with gratitude for everything I received and gained from this great community. But I'm not even important, my knowledge is basic. There are many devs with a massive contribution, whole solutions, modifications, entire systems. For free.
It's quite acceptable to make reference to paid solutions or stuff and to recommend it in the forum. As it was always acceptable presenting royalty-free solutions in the forum and offering more customizing one via Google Play or similar portals. Or asking for a donation. But selling pure commercial solutions for ripoff money for something that has been already paid to the phone producer is an entirely different story. It may turn this forum into a commercial portal. If one could gain huge profits for participation only due to his connection with the producer, what is the point to spend hours, days and weeks of hard work just to bring a perfect rom or solution to the community?
Then, perhaps we'd need another forum. For contributors instead of traders.

Bootloader codes can only be provided by Huawei. FunkyHuawei and other "sellers" likely had an inside source that was providing codes at a cost - these people likely lost their jobs which is why there are no codes available from any source. XDA has found ways to load custom recoveries on many devices in the past, but this was never by locating the bootloader unlock code, only by exploiting a security flaw.
Personally, I don't think this issue has anything to do with Huawei wanting to lock down users. (despite what they're telling us) I think they are scared of research firms finding evidence of Huawei stealing hardware/software from other manufacturers. I don't mean this as a dig on Huawei, I think Apple is guilty of this as well. Both guilty in stealing radio hardware design and software from Qualcomm.

Has anyone actually obtained an unlock code in the last few weeks? If so, for which version of Mate 20 X and how much did you pay?

It's simple guys, 2 options:
Either 1. Insider that gets very busy now because if the many requests since OEM unlock is available again in the new updates.. so price goes up.
Or 2. Someone has the algorithm to generate these codes based on IMEI.
Since the price has went up by 4x I think option one is more realistic, however I don't rule out option 2. Perhaps we can fix a bounty for a team that can look into a key generator?

https://theunlockingcompany.com
Seems to be advertising to unlock at 39.99 US. I am hesitant though not only because of the issue developers have with the ethics behind such a service, but becasue I am a bit of a newb. Once I give out my IMEI number, doesn't that put me at risk of ending up with a brick?

s327374 said:
https://theunlockingcompany.com
Seems to be advertising to unlock at 39.99 US. I am hesitant though not only because of the issue developers have with the ethics behind such a service, but becasue I am a bit of a newb. Once I give out my IMEI number, doesn't that put me at risk of ending up with a brick?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just bought it I hope to have the code in 12 hours

Kurocham said:
I just bought it I hope to have the code in 12 hours
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait ... I am now advertising for them. I thought the point of this thread was to not pay these companies. Although I am interested to know if your EVR-AL00 gets a code. I will be tempted

s327374 said:
https://theunlockingcompany.com
Seems to be advertising to unlock at 39.99 US. I am hesitant though not only because of the issue developers have with the ethics behind such a service, but becasue I am a bit of a newb. Once I give out my IMEI number, doesn't that put me at risk of ending up with a brick?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure this company will give you code to unlock bootloader? Looks like what they do is unlock phone from carrier. For example, you buy a phone from AT&T and you want to use it on Tmobile but you can't because it is carrier locked.

Kurocham said:
I just bought it I hope to have the code in 12 hours
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You realize that this is the unlock code for the simcard Carrier right? That has nothing to do with bootloader unlock...

Kurocham said:
I just bought it I hope to have the code in 12 hours
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mscion said:
Are you sure this company will give you code to unlock bootloader? Looks like what they do is unlock phone from carrier. For example, you buy a phone from AT&T and you want to use it on Tmobile but you can't because it is carrier locked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not sure - I just assumed that this would be for unlocking bootloader.... I guess we will know from Kurocham soon.

ilovepj said:
You realize that this is the unlock code for the simcard Carrier right? That has nothing to do with bootloader unlock...
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Click to collapse
OMFG I DID NOT KNOW!!!!:crying::crying::crying::crying:

Kurocham said:
OMFG I DID NOT KNOW!!!!:crying::crying::crying::crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry bro. I feel your pain. I am sorry for the accidental misdirection.