Database Info

donationware versus freeware

So, am I missing something? What does it take to cook a ROM? Why does everyone ask for donations like their software reinvented sliced bread? I am unsure as to the legality of cooked roms, but asking for donations seems to be a way to get around reselling copyrighted material (wince).
I'd rather just skip your post if there is 24pt blue/red text that says "DONATE" in your signature. If you feel your software is worth money, start up a company and sell it, somewhere else. If not, give what you've got to the community, and they will repay you in some way or another, although its not usually in money.
We can all help each other, and we don't have to be annoying to do it.
</end rant>
Let the flames pour in.

it takes alot of time and effort to build a rom, and whilst it may work fine for someone, others may find problems, so the cooks then reissue a new rom with these bugs fixed hence taking up more time and effort.
donations are worthy as they put in alot of extra effort making the best rom for other people aswell as themselves.
To be honest a small thing saying "Please feel free to Donate" isnt as bad as "2 day trial" or something! at the end of the day if you dont want to donate.. dont.

1.
do·na·tion /doʊˈneɪʃən/
–noun
1. an act or instance of presenting something as a gift, grant, or contribution.
2. a gift, as to a fund; contribution.
[Origin: 1375–1425, for an earlier sense; late ME < L dōnātiōn- (s. of dōnātiō), equiv. to dōnāt(us), ptp. of dōnāre to give (dōn-, s. of dōnum gift, + -ātus -ate1) + -iōn- -ion]
—Synonyms 2. offering, benefaction, gratuity. See present.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
------------------------------------------------------------
n.
The act of giving to a fund or cause.
A gift or grant.
[Middle English donacioun, gift, benefice, from Old French, from Latin dōnātiō, dōnātiōn-, from dōnātus, past participle of dōnāre, to give, from dōnum, gift; see dō- in Indo-European roots.]
(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Donation is voluntary, when you sell something, paying is compulsory.
Donate if you want, if you have, if you like and if you consider it worth it.
2
We are all here because there are cooks amongst us. Without them we would be sticked to WM5 devices, or stock at least.
My advice to you: build your own ROM and change your attitude!

Why you *****in? That why it is donation ware and not a Price Attached ware. If you like it and want to be gratious donate $0.50 or $100 its totally up to you. With a lot of "FreeWare" and "ShareWare" i have found latelly that it is "Free" until to software locks you out without warning 30 days later. I think we have to redefine FreeWare and ShareWare and not complain about DonationWare.
Unless you want me to send my uncle Vinny and beat it out of you!

d1rtyd33z said:
So, am I missing something?
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Yes, actually you are missing a lot of things. First of all, cooking a rom is not a simple task. I never tried it, but I am quite the geek and also a programmer and I can imagine the possible workload attached to cooking a "good" ROM.
ROM chefs are not reinventing anything but they are reshaping Microsoft's oval wheels into circular wheels, so that your device runs smoother and faster.
Is it legal to cook ROMs? I am not sure. But as long as you are not selling it or removing credits of the original provider, it shouldn't be a wrong thing to alter your phone's software. Still, I am not a lawyer and not an expert on the subject.
There is a HUGE difference between reselling stuff and asking donations for a hard work. Try selling stock WM5 or WM6 and let me know how much you make. Then cook a "good" ROM and distribute it donation-free.
Then you will have a basis to compare them.
I agree that extremely colorful posts are annoying. But I respect a chef's desire to present his work in unprofessional form. After all, we are not paying them for it, right?
Finally, nobody is forcing you to pay. Really. You can simply use all the software you find on this site and not pay a single dime. And when you really think that somebody deserves it, and that you can afford it, donate a couple bucks and motivate the chef/programmer for more.

whats goes into a rom
I'm not saying your time isn't worth money, and I haven't had the experience of being locked into wm5. There are, no doubt, some great rom cooks out there. I hope not to step on anyone's toes, I just don't agree with the "please donate" stuff.
As tnyynt said, Donate if you want, if you have, if you like and if you consider it worth it. I would. Who leaked the Sprint WM6.1 ROM?
I appreciate the insight into the more advanced ROM chefs' works. I know it isn't all plug and play, but I don't imagine the chefs are changing the actual wince core code either. What exactly goes into a cooked rom, that didn't come from a pre-made kitchen?

The work of a chef
d1rtyd33z said:
. . . I know it isn't all plug and play, but I don't imagine the chefs are changing the actual wince core code either. What exactly goes into a cooked rom, that didn't come from a pre-made kitchen?
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Oh, man - I think you've really stepped in it now.
You obviously haven't read very much in this forum if you don't realize the tremendous amount of work it takes working with the guts of a ROM - the .dsu files, the .rgu files, the PROVXML, the OPTIONS.XML and SETUP.XML - the complicated and arcane files and instructions that make up a ROM.
The guys that can do this are the ones that make the kitchen that allows the less knowledgeable and/or the less talented to cook their own ROM's, by precisely following the cookbook instructions of these guys that labored to strip factory Rom's - basically tearing a very complex machine apart, and reassembling with just the parts that they have found to be essential, and adding parts that they have found useful in improving the performance of the resulting machine. Try taking a car apart piece by piece, and rebuilding it in a new way, and actually have it drive better than the original.
I suggest you do a lot more reading before you put your foot deeper down your throat.

On a tangent:
I wish developers would offer other means of donations other than paypal. Some people here just don't have paypal, or a credit card. I wish they would offer other methods such as direct deposit, or event a Post Office Box where you could post them money! I think it would help developers get more money for their efforts, it might even make quicker releases and more incentive to further improve their applications etc.
>>Rant Over
>>Thread Hijacked

thanks
Thanks, I'll stop choking on my foot now.

Why is chefs leaving?

If permitted may we ask why is so many chefs leaving?

care to be a bit more specific?

I can think of one reason.
$$$.
Maybe site like you knw whichone (htc pe*di*.com)
site might require them to have exclusive agreement with them.
In return they get some cut from sites revenue.

supersanj said:
care to be a bit more specific?
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itj, miri, hellonasty ......

jimk68 said:
If permitted may we ask why is so many chefs leaving?
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It is the App Store effect. It is really hard to put hours and hours, weeks and weeks of work into a rom or an app, then watch 3000 people download and use it, only to have 30 people actually press your donation button.
It is especially hard when you read things like this and realize the possibilities outside this " donation only " generating forum.

jimk68 said:
itj, miri, hellonasty ......
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duttythroy, freyberry, both from HD2 section in last couple of days..

I may only be a visitor most of the time, but I'm looking elsewhere too.
Threads are full of ego. totally off the original topic mostly and just one-upmanship.
It's just not friendly any more.
The number of people visiting this site has made it what it is and gained it no end of publicity and there is no question that there are some great people coming here and sharing their knowledge.
However I feel it has moved from a "community" spirit of mutual help to one of it being the roughest pub in town.
I really hope they can get their house in order. Threading with ranked comments perhaps?
I'm sure there are admins on here who know that change gotta come.

Chefs have their own life out XDA, they come and go.
I don´t think Chefs are leaving

orb3000 said:
Chefs have their own life out XDA, they come and go.
I don´t think Chefs are leaving
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They are, they have said, all moving to another site but won't give a reason as if they're not allowed... not even allowed to post their ROMs here or support them here.

Wow!!
I was out from XDA and now knowing this bad news
I wonder why is this happening?
If anyone can tell the story...
Hope not all leave...

Yes i have also heard this. Many are saying that htcxxxxx.com is paying them to move on to their site and in a agreement that they should post their roms in their site only that is upload to their site only forever!!

jagan2 said:
Yes i have also heard this. Many are saying that htcxxxxx.com is paying them to move on to their site and in a agreement that they should post their roms in their site only that is upload to their site only forever!!
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True........?

It could be true.
It started with udK I think.

[ElCondor] said:
It could be true.
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Good chefs have definitely said they'll be leaving in the last couple of days, leaving for another site, with no real reason (that they are able to give). I'm sure we'll see a lot more go in the next week.
I'm concerned people like monx who seem to be able to get hold of unofficial WM ROMs before anyone else will hold them and keep them for just people on the other site. This is all very bad for XDA.

I think our lost, that site never ask for anything other then register and download, always ask to refer back here. So many top chefs
Cheers

They'll probably buy out all chefs here, and when they're done, they sell the roms on HTCpedia.
The chefs will get paid in that way, and HTCPedia will make a lot of profit.
I am making my own ROMs, if everyone leaves, I'll publish them here.

Money....money.......money.........money..........
And don't think for one second, it is not all about money !!!!!!!
Xda as a web site is valued at close to a million dollars, some estimates over a million. What is XDA intrinsically ? A bunch of servers in a leased office in Amsterdam, with a hand full of administrators.
The true value is in the knowledge base of it's members, App developers and rom chefs. Like any other business, the " employees " see the " boss " making all this money from their knowledge and hard work, and say " hey , we can do this for ourselves and make all the money instead of them. "
A couple of chefs get together at HTCpedia and start to develop their own site, based on their own knowledge and their own cooked roms. They get some advertisers and some members and traffic. It turns things from, one chef deciding to list his work on his own site for convenience and control ( like sakajati did over at the Kaiser forum, or MobileMatt did with his great themes ) to competing businesses.
The chefs try to bolster their traffic by providing links in their rom threads here, ( something that has always been acceptable ) egos clash , accusations about stealing business, the fine line between personal links and advertising. Basically children with their toys try to carve out their own area's of the playground.
Money.....money......money...... and as with Apple vs HTC, who i going to be the big loser in this battle ? Does it matter to you where you download your roms ? If you donate to a chef here or over there, does it change your rom flashing experience ? Or could you care less about this petty squabbling and just wish everyone would just grow up.
As far as paying people to list roms on a certain site, that is a slippery slope that everyone walks. Chefs cook , manipulate, improve and port these roms, but the roms themselves are the intellectual property of M$ and HTC without question. This is the reason for the donation system and not the " pay per ". You can ask for a donation for the time and effort you put into cooking these roms, but you cannot sell what you do not own. And nobody " owns " these roms except the companies that created the rom bases.
Who is going to gain and who is going to lose from this " butting of heads ? " Who knows, but does anyone really want a public battle over the posting ( and ad revenues ) of intellectual property they do not even own.
Kick and scream too loud, and you might just get the attention of people that have been looking the other way for a long time. Money.....money.....money......I'm just sayin...........

dead right, as soon as the roms, or the distribution of the roms becomes a commodity, htc and ms have to take notice.

samsamuel said:
dead right, as soon as the roms, or the distribution of the roms becomes a commodity, htc and ms have to take notice.
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+1.
I have been away from the site for a few months and this and another thread about the same topic have been the first things I have seen!!
This is all very bad news. For one thing, it looks like xda-developers is losing some of it's finest talent. Is this phenomenon limited to ROM chefs? What about developers who make applications (for example, Advanced Config)? I notice that the other site has that app up for download, has the developer of that app migrated exclusively to the other site?
As has already been mentioned, once people start making money off the cooked ROMs I am sure Microsoft will start to take note. Also, how many of the developers are using a licenesed copy of Visual Studio or whatever it is they use? And the SDKs required?
Will HTC start to take umberance to the fact that people are using the Manilla SDK and butchering their (already customised) ROMs?
Maybe much ado about nothing or maybe it will lead to problems for both xda-developers and the other site.

Syphon Filter said:
Maybe much ado about nothing or maybe it will lead to problems for both xda-developers and the other site.
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Yes, if they actually start charging for ROMs (one way or another) Microsoft and HTC will definitely crack down on this type of thing. I've read that they can make it almost impossible to install custom ROMs if they want to (not that it's that easy right now), not to mention taking various sites to court, Microsoft$ favorite past time..

My somber state of Axura :(

I never flashed this ROM, though I must admit that it did look interesting feature/graphic wise.
It's sad to cease development on an open source compilation of code.. that's why even the renowned Design Gears is happily posting his source to his github
I do admit that with the push of android to the young populous, there's a lot of *young* android adopters.. consequence being the immaturity and inconsideration of spreading pirated software, leaking releases, and the lost of respect instilled in the media today towards the youngsters.
Respect is what parents should be raising their children with, not some TVs and Gameboys.

Bowsa2511 said:
I never flashed this ROM, though I must admit that it did look interesting feature/graphic wise.
It's sad to cease development on an open source compilation of code.. that's why even the renowned Design Gears is happily posting his source to his github
I do admit that with the push of android to the young populous, there's a lot of *young* android adopters.. consequence being the immaturity and inconsideration of spreading pirated software, leaking releases, and the lost of respect instilled in the media today towards the youngsters.
Respect is what parents should be raising their children with, not some TVs and Gameboys.
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+10...............................

sigh, I really liked Axura ROM and their dedication. I think I'm done with flashing since this amount of drama detracts from all the collegial spirit that should be present in this type of activity.

yeah i have axura and i'm happy with it at this point. i am going to live in denial for a while and keep checking back hoping they change their tune and start dev'ing again

It was the best
I loved this ROM and not to be too harsh, but whoever thought that would ever be okay is just a......ill keep it G rated, but yea! Seriously, its not your work and you have been asked not to post it or use it w/o express permission! I am glad to hear that they have been banned from the forums (via Master's Twitter) but seriously let this be a lesson to all of XDA, respect peoples work. Especially the people who are taking our phones from okay to the best out there! This is just rude and I am really hoping the XDA community learns from this and from here on out keeps flaming and crap like this to a minimum. Dev's can disagree and people can have their differences but that does not trump respect, and on that note if your not a Dev(which I am not) then lay off the devs a little, give them ideas/feedback but dont piss all over their work if something isnt exactly right. For the love they are building these ROMs from scraps and leaked incomplete releases! If you cant fix it yourself.....don't complain just let the Dev know and HOLD YOUR HAPPY .... ON UNTIL THEY FIX IT!
P.S. Dont know if hansmrtn will read this but if you do then thank you for standing up for us and trying to let Master agree to release the newest version to us! You rock, you didnt have to try but you did anyway. Thanks!

hey sorry guys i know this is like a super noob question and i may get flamed for this but im willing to accept that lol but from reading all this i have one main question: does this mean i cant get Axura anymore from anywhere? i dont even have my Captivate yet but i should be getting it on Monday but im planning to go straight to a ROM from the get go and i was planning to use Axura but now after reading all this im pretty sad. i know i could go with Perception v7 but id still much rather get Axura, is there any way i can still get it?

hey man
Yea as of now all Auxra Roms are gone. People probably have them on their computer but no one should, esp after this post them or give them up. Sorry man!

ice3186 said:
Yea as of now all Auxra Roms are gone. People probably have them on their computer but no one should
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love the axura rom..glad i was able to hop on the bandwagon while i could

There are a lot of people who get rubbed the wrong way on here. I have to admit sometimes it gets pretty bad. But I also find it refreshing that the mods don't really step in to often to clean things up.
One thing i don't get is the mindset of a rom dev. I was under the impression that they have the device and have the abilities to make it better then what it is. I always thought them sharing it was a gift. With that being said i would think they would listen to suggestions but ultimately they make what they want, we are along for the ride.
I know if i were making something for myself and then sharing it to the world, I wouldn't give two poops what anyone has to say because it was made for me and to each his own.
As per releasing betas or alphas... your always going to have pirates, jerks and people who want some fame. It happens. That is why companies have nda's. Just find yourself 4 or 5 trustworthy chaps and dev dev dev!
These roms should be made for self gratification, not for kudos from xda members. You will always get crap for your hard work.
that is my piece, you may not agree.

This is a kick in the nuts to those who donated to hansmrtn, this whole fiasco had nothing to do with the captivate rom, so for him to seize development makes no sense.

This my friends....has made me so much more cautious in my donation.
I donate because I feel that it is important to show those people that do this on their free spare time, should feel like they are being appreciated for their time and work.
But their is a catch to this, if you are willing to ask for donation to a community that your a member of, I believe YOU are obligated to show some sort "code of ethics". I want to feel that I have donated to a cause of future development and support.
NOT....
News: D4A is closing at the end of the month due to the disrespect from several XDA members
I will not post the link to the website. Deserves NO recognition.
Really...? This is what your gonna give me for an explanation for why my donation on good faith was wasted! Childish.
Bad business, shows that your maturity level for this community has showed it's true colors, selfish and lack of respect for one self.
Am I asking for a refund, by all means, no. Seems like you need the money more than I do.
Am I being a little harsh, no. You have to understand, you have to look at this more on a business stand point. You advertise the donation button, which basically asking for peoples hard earn money, and you take it away just like that (doesn't matter if it is for 1 cent, still wasn't your money to begin with), ...and you feel disrespected...? Come back and ask the community the same please.
Just note that you let a lot more people down than people that you feel that disrespected you. But we'll still call the kettle black...
That's my 2 cents, back to seeing whats new.

Tried following the excuses given for pulling development on this rom. I get it that things happen and are said on this forum that are not respectful, but the greater good of the commity should out way a couple bad apples. Still using the rom. Will do so till I am bored. Allot of drama in the last couple of days
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

As far as the reasons goes some people are dicks, life sucks, get over it.
The reaction is a slap in the face to all the donators and hansmrtn.
In the open source world, when this **** happens the way forward is to fork and move on.

All too often I've seen the devs at XDA get disrespected. And I see it way too much, these folks put countless hours into what we reap the benefits of. It's not their jobs, and if it was their jobs, then the disrespect becomes a bit more "tolerable". But it's on their free time they make our devices better than anything the manufacturers could produce.
As far as Axura and the devs involved in it. I felt they did some truly amazing stuff. It was brilliant work, and as it moved along it was getting really exciting to see it get better and better. I was thrilled at where it was going, it made me want to contribute to it, not in money, but in my own abilities.
The thread was a really great place. After the dev change, I can say I only saw 1 person get a bit out of line. There wasn't the bashing and BS from people coming down on noobs. It was refreshing to see for a change. Hopefully the people moving from Axura to the other ROM threads out there will carry on this to their new ROMS
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this ROM. Both in the development and in the feed back to the devs, who could then make it better for all of us

Can someone explain me in a short what exactly happened. I have red the convo with but I don't get what exactly happened. Since I switched to nexus one this forum is going nuts!
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

mac208x said:
Can someone explain me in a short what exactly happened. I have red the convo with but I don't get what exactly happened. Since I switched to nexus one this forum is going nuts!
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
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I'll let Urban Dictionary do the talking:
"I'm going to take my ball and go home!"
"I want to be in control of the situation and if I can't then no one is going to be allowed to be happy about the outcome."
The expression comes from the playground where one kid, the one who owns the soccer ball or basket ball, doesn't get his way in the game. If he doesn't get his way then he gets mad and punishes those who are unwilling to accept his mandate. He does this my taking his ball and going home thus ending the game and any fun the participants were having.
The expression "I'm going to take my ball and go home" when directed at an individual is used to illustrate the individual's immaturity when that person can't get his way and no longer wants to be a participant in the conversation or a contributor to solving a problem.
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^^ I agree, it seemed like the issue was more about removing axura from XDA as the one individual wanted it to be exclusive to his website.
Also, it appears it is closing up because of sheer frustration. As a web host you cant be so quick to quit!
A ROM will be leaked, do you see AT&T stopping the development of FROYO because we are all spreading it around like wild fire? No.

Good thing I downloaded the rom a day before it was taken down.
After reading the convo, I was just like WTF, really?
Yeah, devs deserve respect. No one can argue otherwise. They make these roms in their free time, hoping to please themselves and other people by sharing it here. They don't have to do it, yet they still do even though other members give em **** for it.
Now, as to what Master did.
Let me ask you this question. (If you read this.)
Did you REALLY expect nobody to give you **** for your work? Were you really so NAIVE to believe that there would be no piraters, leakers, etc.? Do you REALLY think it's fair to punish YOURSELF and EVERYBODY ELSE around you just because one or two people disrespected your work?
Unfortunately, this life can be unfair. Deal with it. There will be immature douchebags that will disrespect you. That's just how life is.
What you have done is highly immature. Now hans can't develop the CE Axura anymore even AFTER he put so much work into it. Is that not disrespect? What about all those who donated to you, you just leave them in the dust just because one or two people disrespected you?
Anyways, that was my 2 cents.
Of course, being the dev, he can do whatever he wants with his rom. Remove it, put it up, it's all up to him, and, like I said, devs do this on their free time and we have no right to be disrespectful to them or to demand anything from them.

I think it was due to how it was handled which is why Master wanted it removed from XDA. However, that's not fair to Hans as he put alot of time and effort into it and he didn't want to shut it down. If anything, I think Hans should be able to release it here because it had little to nothing to do with this fiasco.
I understand why Master pulled it but sheltering it won't don't anything but hurt the rom due to very little exposure. I hope that Hans continues to dev whether it be Axura or something else.

MikeyMike01 said:
I'll let Urban Dictionary do the talking:
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^^^QFMFT!!!
I spent all day trying to get a PC to flash Odin finally get it load up this ROM and what happens? It gets removed in a manner that even my kid thinks is hella immature. I feel bad for Hans because of all of the hardwork he put into it after the last feet stomping tantrum....or so I've heard. I'm just disappointed in the whole thing..

Just a Passing Thought on Devs

Just one of my thoughts on developers...
Developers of apps and such have brought us some really useful creations that allow us to personalize our Android devices in almost anyway we desire. They spend countless hours, months, or even years developing these things which they give to us for our use.
While we use these creations, we find a bug or think of a new implementation for it. Now a developer will get new feature requests and choose to not make those changes because they have no time, not enough demand, or there's just no plan for it. On the other hand, we find a bug in it. We bring it to their attention and there's a chance that it will be fixed, maybe soon or in a later update. Maybe it doesn't get fixed but it still runs fairly well.
But what the unresponsive developers who basically make their apps for a quick buck and then the project is dead? Or the ones who don't listen to the supporters of their app at all? I know there's no obligation to listen to thoughts of the consumer but shouldn't the developer at least pay attention and be somewhat responsive?
Any thoughts/comments/disagreements/criticisms/hate on this are welcome.

Jamin13 said:
Just one of my thoughts on developers...
Developers of apps and such have brought us some really useful creations that allow us to personalize our Android devices in almost anyway we desire. They spend countless hours, months, or even years developing these things which they give to us for our use.
While we use these creations, we find a bug or think of a new implementation for it. Now a developer will get new feature requests and choose to not make those changes because they have no time, not enough demand, or there's just no plan for it. On the other hand, we find a bug in it. We bring it to their attention and there's a chance that it will be fixed, maybe soon or in a later update. Maybe it doesn't get fixed but it still runs fairly well.
But what the unresponsive developers who basically make their apps for a quick buck and then the project is dead? Or the ones who don't listen to the supporters of their app at all? I know there's no obligation to listen to thoughts of the consumer but shouldn't the developer at least pay attention and be somewhat responsive?
Any thoughts/comments/disagreements/criticisms/hate on this are welcome.
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I guess we are lucky in that the majority of Developers in the community are not demanding of donations or the 'quick buck'. Most do it to tinker in their spare time, to prove that it can be done, and to feed their passion. They are then gracious enough to share their works with us, everyday Joes, for nil thought of monetary gain (again, mostly).
It disheartens me greatly that the overwhelming majority of users now make the most ridiculous demands of Developers, expect a full-blown 'retail (bug-less)' experience, then have the gall to call Developers out if they decide to move away from the project, hit a brick wall or even just go to sleep!
Unfortunately I have even seen the odd Developer involved in this sort of behaviour, and it's certainly not limited to Junior members either, not by a long shot
These guys don't get paid, they're (generally) doing the best they can with what they've got, and they share with us out of their own goodwill. We use and try these things at our own risk. It's printed in big red letters at the top of most ROM threads these days, for good reason
With the onset of the 'smartphone revolution', it's amazing to read through a 50-page thread and watch how many people ask for each and every feature in a 'CWM flashable zip' because they can't, or won't, read through a few pages, or even do a search. I'd wager a fair few wouldn't even know what a Command Prompt or Fastboot was. These kids are flashing whatever looks 'cool' to their devices without so much as a clue to what it does (other than OMG an extra 0.1GHz! - example only), then expecting everyone else to pull them out of the **** when it goes pear-shaped ('I need flashable zip for...'), and having a bit of a go if something doesn't work, rather than sitting back and waiting for it to get past version 0.1.
I have great sympathy for Developers today, as they don't have a hope in Hell of keeping on top of this, nor keeping up with the ridiculous demands.
Even if we make a donation, it does not entitle us to any more support than the regular user who just hits the 'Thanks' button, or even just silently downloads and uses. It's called a donation for a reason. This is a community based on goodwill and sharing, although some days it certainly doesn't look that way.
I've bored you long enough Thankyou for asking the question and giving me the opportunity to share my thoughts. Remember, the Developers are the lifeblood of this community, and (thankfully) bad eggs among them are quite rare.
Take care.

juzz86 said:
I guess we are lucky in that the majority of Developers in the community are not demanding of donations or the 'quick buck'. Most do it to tinker in their spare time, to prove that it can be done, and to feed their passion. They are then gracious enough to share their works with us, everyday Joes, for nil thought of monetary gain (again, mostly).
It disheartens me greatly that the overwhelming majority of users now make the most ridiculous demands of Developers, expect a full-blown 'retail (bug-less)' experience, then have the gall to call Developers out if they decide to move away from the project, hit a brick wall or even just go to sleep!
Unfortunately I have even seen the odd Developer involved in this sort of behaviour, and it's certainly not limited to Junior members either, not by a long shot
These guys don't get paid, they're (generally) doing the best they can with what they've got, and they share with us out of their own goodwill. We use and try these things at our own risk. It's printed in big red letters at the top of most ROM threads these days, for good reason
With the onset of the 'smartphone revolution', it's amazing to read through a 50-page thread and watch how many people ask for each and every feature in a 'CWM flashable zip' because they can't, or won't, read through a few pages, or even do a search. I'd wager a fair few wouldn't even know what a Command Prompt or Fastboot was. These kids are flashing whatever looks 'cool' to their devices without so much as a clue to what it does (other than OMG an extra 0.1GHz! - example only), then expecting everyone else to pull them out of the **** when it goes pear-shaped ('I need flashable zip for...'), and having a bit of a go if something doesn't work, rather than sitting back and waiting for it to get past version 0.1.
I have great sympathy for Developers today, as they don't have a hope in Hell of keeping on top of this, nor keeping up with the ridiculous demands.
Even if we make a donation, it does not entitle us to any more support than the regular user who just hits the 'Thanks' button, or even just silently downloads and uses. It's called a donation for a reason. This is a community based on goodwill and sharing, although some days it certainly doesn't look that way.
I've bored you long enough Thankyou for asking the question and giving me the opportunity to share my thoughts. Remember, the Developers are the lifeblood of this community, and (thankfully) bad eggs among them are quite rare.
Take care.
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No problem, always nice to know others thoughts on an idea.
There are the dedicated devs who do spend vast amounts of time on their work and everyone (most everyone anyway) are quite appreciative of it. I'm more concerned with devs, whether new or old, just maybe responding. Not just toward reasonable (or ludicrous) requests but just a general question. I wouldn't look for them to respond to everyone who does ask something though, they would be there for days.
I'm just trying to port a recovery for my phone and cannot get a response from any of those respected and revered devs that have done all the work on those recoveries. I've done my fair share of Googling and asking around here and still have not been able to make any progress on it. There was one member who has been lending a hand but other than him, I haven't gotten any other responses.

It sounded like the first post was more about app devs and the second was about rom devs...

I was just talking about devs in general, not any specific kind. Could be ROMs, could be Apps, people will still ask for more and more and pester until they get what they want or until the developer gets fed up and: makes the changes, stops responding, or gets run off.

Are devs getting greedy?

Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?

Just allow electronic Darwinism to take its course! If someone is taking the piss, they'll soon die out, if people use common sense and don't encourage them

Most devs that I see, Or rather use ROMS from are quite active and very supportive and NEVER even spoke anything about donation. I was happy to donate for a few of them coz it is really worth it.
I think this opinion you speak of might have been due to your ill luck or some pretty bad devs you have encountered.
I'm not saying you are wrong but I'm saying that your prespective might be due to a unlucky or bad dev (one bad apple) incident.

As far as my phone the Desire Hd is concerned, the developers are still just as helpful and enthusiastic as ever.

There is no developer like a bad or good developer, its because of them 99% of people are using roms without donating, 1 % donates to developers

I know a lot of developer who work on projects for free, but even the developers out there like to drink a beer paid from their projects
-> Donations are welcome!

Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.

tolis626 said:
Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.
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So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993

Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
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Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)

Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs
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I totally agree with that.

Archer said:
I totally agree with that.
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As does XDA, hence the rules at present
This is not a platform to make money from. For anyone who cares, I have made a total of £0.00 from XDA. I don't wish to make personal profit from here.
I spend large numbers of hours on the site, doing stuff behind the scenes. If I was to draw up a "bill" for the past year, it would be in the hundreds of thousands of pounds, based on the price I charge for my services.
But I wouldn't ever want to see myself as selling something here. That's not what this site is about! There's plenty of places to sell stuff. If you make your own app, fair enough. If you modify something belonging to someone else, then nope

bwheelies said:
Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?

Ok, I have been trolling here for sometime and have seen some devs who ask for donations. However, the vast majority just contribute their time and hard work for the betterment of the platform and the community as a whole.
As for slow development, I think a lot of that has to do with the phone. I have the SGS 2 and there is active development for that with a lot of great roms. My wife has the 4g Slide and the development is slightly slower. It all comes down to the popularity of the phone.

If devs make a product good enough for people to pay for then good for them. On the other hand, if they ask for donations but their software is crap then no one will buy it.
It's a free market, let them try.
It is alot of work and it requires a special skill set to do what devs do, so I can appreciate them asking for a couple bucks for their trouble.

I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..

Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
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Click to collapse
I agree with Cabe24i.See below.
Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)
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Click to collapse
The point isn't whether they are allowed to accept money for their work.They surely should put their creations on sale.And exactly here is where I agree with you.ROMs and kernels aren't their work.As good as someone's modifications can be,it's not new code written by them entirely(except for some patches,etc).While their work is and should be rewarded,it should in no way become mandatory that we pay to use it.It should be optional as it is.It's fair for everyone that way.Those who deserve it will get paid,end of story.
Selling apps on XDA is another story,but it's also completely right to do so,as they could just sell those on the market and be done with it.But it's about applications written anew,not modified ones.Did anyone sell a modified copy of a game?I don't think so.
We should show our appreciation to developers,but they should also show us some respect(I am more than content with what's going on here on the dev side,it's XDA's ungrateful noobs that I'm mad with like most of you here).Fraud is a crime after all.

I can see both sides of that argument actually. Whilst I do think it's unreasonable for a developer to request money for merely tweaking a ROM, it's the same as a painter painting your living room. He's not made you a brand new living room from scratch. He's just painted your existing one. That's similar to a ROM tweaker.
That said, I do understand and abide by the rules - I'm not arguing them. Just playing devil's advocate.

lowandbehold said:
My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?
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Not sure if you are asking me. I have a Droid Charge.

F2504x4 said:
I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..
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Click to collapse
This is one of the best posts I have seen on xda. Judging by this, the developer who posted a no effort ROM in a stagnant phone development scene who says donate and does nothing with the ROM is nothing but a modern day P.T. Barnum.

First of all, you don't have to donate
But I agree with OP it's not done to demand donations to finish work.
If your work is good and you support it well, possibilities for a donation are much higher.
But it is no guarantee for donations.
But isn't respect from others the best payment for your work? That's the reason I do my share for the community