Related
Hi all,
I've posted about this trash before but now it is really annoying me.
We all do our work here for free and for the better good of the community and those who use these PDA's.
I am so sick of people abusing our work and selling it on Ebay without even a thank you let alone any form of re-imbursement for the hard work we do.
I know it's not piracy, and what we do here is pretty much open-source if you like, but this stuff is really getting on my nerves.
Everytime I go on Ebay and search for PDAs the same trash pops up, some idiot making a fast buck off the back of hard working Developers like us.
The guy is selling a Uni with Laurentius's and mine Rom on it and trying to make an extra £50- £70 for our hard work, since the Uni is normally going for between £160- £200 these days.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....ndexURL=4&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
I have no idea what we can do about it, I am reporting him to Ebay and would be gratefull for the support of the community in doing the same with this guy and others like him.
It ruins this community and really winds me up to the point that I wonder if should even bother any more.
Cheers,
A very p....ssd off Beasty
I am more surprised that people actually paying to buy ROMs which are available for free. Beasty maybe you should be listing the ROMs since people don’t really want to hit the donation icon here. And I will give you a good feedback to get you started.
beast0898 said:
Hi all,
I've posted about this trash before but now it is really annoying me.
We all do our work here for free and for the better good of the community and those who use these PDA's.
I am so sick of people abusing our work and selling it on Ebay without even a thank you let alone any form of re-imbursement for the hard work we do.
I know it's not piracy, and what we do here is pretty much open-source if you like, but this stuff is really getting on my nerves.
Everytime I go on Ebay and search for PDAs the same trash pops up, some idiot making a fast buck off the back of hard working Developers like us.
The guy is selling a Uni with Laurentius's and mine Rom on it and trying to make an extra £50- £70 for our hard work, since the Uni is normally going for between £160- £200 these days.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....ndexURL=4&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
I have no idea what we can do about it, I am reporting him to Ebay and would be gratefull for the support of the community in doing the same with this guy and others like him.
It ruins this community and really winds me up to the point that I wonder if should even bother any more.
MODS PLEASE STICKY THIS
Cheers,
A very p....ssd off Beasty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't wish to sell them, and besides that it would be illegal to do so.
My point is that we do this for free and scum bags try to make money for nothing from others contributions to this community.
I know how stupid Microsoft will look if people start selling their modified ROMs. But I did discover one thing when you are pissed you do lose your sense of humor.
beast0898 said:
I don't wish to sell them, and besides that it would be illegal to do so.
My point is that we do this for free and scum bags try to make money for nothing from others contributions to this community.
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Click to collapse
Yes... a lot of time goes in cooking\developing rom's and we are offering this ROM's for free here. How would you feel if we stop doing this!
I have no good words for people who are selling our ROM's on Ebay.
I might have to think about that if you stop making ROM how will I feel? I think then I will have no good words for you. Just kidding I guess then I will be disappointed because I keep coming back to your ROMs and you don’t even appreciate that I go through all that trouble and flash your ROMs. A little bit of appreciation will be nice from you people. No, seriously I do appreciate all the time you spend her and then even let people criticize you. If I was you I would just say “MAKE YOUR OWN BLOODY ROMs IF YOU CAN DO a BETTER JOB”.
Laurentius26 said:
Yes... a lot of time goes in cooking\developing rom's and we are offering this ROM's for free here. How would you feel if we stop doing this!
I have no good words for people who are selling our ROM's on Ebay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I do appriciate you flash our ROM's my friend
Thank you!
Regards,
Leo
faraz.riaz said:
I might have to think about that if you stop making ROM how will I feel? I think then I will have no good words for you. Just kidding I guess then I will be disappointed because I keep coming back to your ROMs and you don’t even appreciate that I go through all that trouble and flash your ROMs. A little bit of appreciation will be nice from you people. No, seriously I do appreciate all the time you spend her and then even let people criticize you. If I was you I would just say “MAKE YOUR OWN BLOODY ROMs IF YOU CAN DO a BETTER JOB”.
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Click to collapse
Support
Hi Beasty,
I'm behind you guys 100% on this one, if you come up with a way we can all help then let us know. I guess this arse wipe is a member of this group, can we have him or them removed from it to start with. It might not be illegal to sell it on eBay, but it must be some kind of fraud. As a paramedic I am (when given permission) able to use a persons medical history to further my knowledge, but I've no right to sell it in a book on EBAY if you see my point!!!
Kind regards
Jay
THANK YOU
i would be very pissed off too if i'd work my butt off to get nothing some times not even a "thank you" and other motHer%$$·$% is getting the money for my hard-work. if anyone can come up with some good ideas to avoid this type of persons here in this wonderful comunity would be great (maybe get his IP address somehow and ban him/her for good)
i have no words for all you people that spend many hours cooking and developing, hours that maybe your wife, husband or kids would need or deserve but just think about the 1000s of happy faces we have everytime we flash you piece of artworks or all the countless hours we wait for a new ROM to come out or just the big smile we have in our faces everytime the flash is finished and we see the new ROM for the first time. Just think that he/she migth be making a few bucks, but you have the appreciation, respect, knowledge and the love of many (maybe thousands) of people every single day with every new ROM . To all this you may have notice that english is not my maiden language(im from mexico) but i do want to show you my respects, i wish i could donate but in the country i live...life is not easy and all i can do is say...... !!!!!GRACIAS!!!!!!
BEST REGARDS. Erik.
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, thats my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
So Disgusting
This is very disgusting if anyone is doing so........as a members of this community we should really stop this .This forum is for us and we should appriciate our developers for giving us such ROM's........which they develope by contributing their valuable time for us.
I really feel very sad about it.
Hi all,
I have no desire to make money from my work here, or demand donations for anything I contribute, all I request is the common decency from fellow human beings not to ruin this community by exploiting others.
TehPenguin does have a point though, his hosting does cost him money and adds great value to this community, the FTP Server and BugTracker are invaluable (when used correctly) and TehPenguin and this site could really use donations to help them keep running costs down.
TehPenguin said:
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, thats my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel so ashamed of myself that I have decided not to download any ROM from your domain for one week. Seriously, did people have a bad weekend because everyone seemed to be pissed off? I am disappointed that you called me a hypocrite because I have been accused of this before and I’m anxiously waiting for someone to come up with something new. Everyone whom posted in this thread will have to send a handsome amount of donation to the “hosting dude” starting with Beasty who started this thread. Honestly, I do agree people should pay a little back to help those who are trying to help others. I think even if everyone pays as little as US $1 it will make a huge difference. I am surprised myself people come up with so many ideas how to change the ROM (Whisper: Most of them are lame) and they are more like demanding. I really don’t get why developers put up with that and I told Beasty that why he’s apologetic.
I do agree that we should do a little something to help. So what you need me to do?
TehPenguin said:
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, thats my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why don't you guys make a solution
Hey beast,
Why don't you developer make a credits section in your roms that is listing your names and all your comments.
I'm not a developer, but let me give an idea, why don't you create a program, that makes a watermark comment on the todays screen, which makes it clear to everyone that this rom is free and nmt for sale, and calling everyone that purchase this rom to contact you guys through the xda-developers web site.
it is just an idea, and I'm sure that most of the guys here is supporting you and the other developers for the great work
TehPenguin said:
However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ive found the same when i set up htc-devs.com (when the ftp was wiped of m$ files)
TehPenguin said:
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I concur, In since i started developing my total donations are barely double digits (<£50) people think that things should be handed to them on a golden platter, and when they are not 100% to thier satisfaction that you shoudl put it right, immediately, but they would never consider donating
my 2p
I am not a developer too..or not considering me in that sort of group,because of the amount of time I spend in this (about 1-2hrs a week).
Just customized a Rom to my needs and I will be glad to share if someone wants it,freely!
Every person needs to find a good balance to Private life and Rom Developement,etc.. If this development is such time consuming,calm down..review your time!
Don't pretend donations (they are always appreciated but not to be Pretended or cast something up)
Development (and programming in general) in this forum are passions that we share together..
TehPenguin said:
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, that's my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think ANYONE is being a hypocrite on this thread, we are just supporting developers who have had their work abused and used by another party. I have the greatest admiration for the clever people who develop the amazing Rom's for our chosen PDA, without them our universals would now be an out of date device. I personally provide files and work to the LIMIT of my own abilities, and any rom I feel worth using, then I donate to the developer. I feel thats what this forum is all about. Yes I am guilty of not supporting ANY host of download sites, and was not aware that this puts you out of pocket till now. without the hosts support to this forum it would be useless but it is not unreasonable for people to express their OWN opinion.
Respectfully
Jay
responderman said:
I don't think ANYONE is being a hypocrite on this thread, we are just supporting developers who have had their work abused and used by another party. I have the greatest admiration for the clever people who develop the amazing Rom's for our chosen PDA, without them our universals would now be an out of date device. I personally provide files and work to the LIMIT of my own abilities, and any rom I feel worth using, then I donate to the developer. I feel thats what this forum is all about. Yes I am guilty of not supporting ANY host of download sites, and was not aware that this puts you out of pocket till now. without the hosts support to this forum it would be useless but it is not unreasonable for people to express their OWN opinion.
Respectfully
Jay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats a good point to note as well - Hosting cost me money, but it also costs the people who host this forum money. So, I wonder how many people have noticed the Donate link at the top of this page (near the Wiki link)...
Disagree with Beastie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I totally disagree with Beastie on this matter! If you take a look at the installed software on that Uni it has SPB Finance, Weather and Pocket Plus retailing at 70$ as well as a quite long list of other appz. More than that what we do here isn't fully legal either or at least moral. For example in our ROMs we include software that we do not have a licence or any right to use like MSVoiceCommand, MSOffice, HTC Stuff etc, etc, if you compare this to a PC it would be like buying a PC with Win98 then taking a copy(image) of a friend WinXP(with Office, and other apps) and loading it on your one. Do you thing this is right? And also if someone would do the same and sell this "New" PC complain about it. You develop for your own fun and hobby. If you decided to share something not very moral with others, don't complain when someone does something that is not fully moral by your judgement. Morality or legality of this matter is a subjective matter. And do understand the concept of open source. I'm coming from a Mozilla exdeveloper background. And Mozilla is used in numerous commercial applications with proper credits. You have no right to claim that someone used your work to make money on it, as you are using someone else work in your own interests (name, hobby, any reason). You have your reasons to make just what that guy did for his reasons(in his case money). One thief is judjung another!!! How moral is that??? Of course you do develop your own tools and enchacements, BUT on top of a STOLEN OS!!! Microsoft, HTC,etc invested money and time in their developers, designers, markeing depts. to bring this OS to life, and if they decide they don't want to give it for free it is their choice as a business model. You do not have the right to steal this OS tweak it and claim that it is YOUR and someone should pay you for this. Look a the whole picture not that just some guy used the ROM you dont own but tweaked it and claim it is yours.
PS. Last night i posted my 1st ever ROM on this forum wich is as vanilla as possible(for me), the reasons behind postin it here was exactly that. Anyone can download it and tweak it to his own use, or install new soft one it, new soft keybd, new media player, fast GPS soft etc, etc. I didn't own that OS, I took it of Thingonasping wich took it from someone else. You spend a some time and money in "developing" "your" ROMs, corporations spend billions on that, and someone comes along and steals it. Now that person do not have the need to upgrade his device anymore as "his" new OS will keep him happy for a while. How much damage do you do then to even HTC themselves who didn't sell another unit as their potential customer didn't buy it cos he's got his old device new features(without permision from legal developer).
PS. And how do you know or are so sure that he used "Your" ROM? Maybe he took your kitchen and compiled it, (wich in your view and interpretation), makes it "His" ROM now, isn't it?
I feel sorry for the poor sod who will buy this Universal:
1. As far as legality is concerned, any stolen goods doesn't pass the title of ownership to the buyer. Even though the buyer is unaware of this theft and he/she is innocent, the ownership title doesn't pass to him/her. A case in point about Spb software on the phone, which we are assuming installed on the phone illegally.
2. To add to this the poor sod's nightmare, he/she will be lumbered with Windows Mobile 6 with full of bugs. For sure it won't have video calling.
KOR!
i mean, everything on this site is pretty much microsoft, which should create some copyright issues.
they are just happy to find a place where winmo doesn't get bashed constantly
duude said:
i mean, everything on this site is pretty much microsoft, which should create some copyright issues.
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LOL, your first post and you have a pop at this site?
You dont work for MS do you
GREAT first post.
anyway.
They tolerate it because we don't personally host anything and yes, we do make windows mobile better.
Also, this site actively opposes software theft, (warez and others like it,) which is the bulk of any copyright problems. It spreads goodwill towards Microsoft, believe it or not; if users have problems with standard Microsoft software, they don't have to just sit there and be unhappy, it can be tweaked. By doing so, people are happier with their Microsoft-driven equipment, and more likely to keep using it than changing to something else. There are countless people on this site who would tell you that without this site, they might not be using a Windows-driven phone.
It is also free tech-support for Microsoft, which saves them loads of money.
LOL duude...are u an attorney or do u own an iphone?
m$ knows better to keep this site alive. its their faults we are tweakin up and makin it better. beside...you never know...this draws a lot and i mean a lot of ppl towards m$. so i m pretty much sure the revenue keeps em' happy
yesod7 said:
There are countless people on this site who would tell you that without this site, they might not be using a Windows-driven phone
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One here!!!
microsoft never sold wm to any end user
and this site never taken part in porting wm to a device that dident came with it
more because of the close to impossibility of doing so
so as ms still get their licensense from the manufactors
and better rep with users who can get more out of their devices then just
depending on what the manfucators give before they forget about older devices
and move on to their new stuff
more wm phone owners keep getting new wm devices rather then moving to iphones or symbian devices so
it helps ms out alot in their quest of getting a larger % of the market
Plus, along with the free tech ehlp, the improving of current phones, we all know new htc phones will be tweaked cooked and stuff, so buy another phone. so XDA not only saves tehm money, but actually gains them money
It's because of this site that I'm looking at the Windows Mobile platform for my next phone rather than traditional Nokia, Sony Ericsson (other than x1), or even the iPhone..... actually come to think of it, without the exisitence of this site EVER, I would get an iPhone 3G right away.
you will see that in the coming future microsoft will be incorporating programs and devs that were created through this site to their platform. There was once a time when microsoft tried to shut it down when they realised that the site actually brings more people to microsoft and keeps them there.
LOL! I was going to post something else, but I'm pretty sure everybody has already said it, or thinks it! To much good comes from this site! Think about it, how many users of this site are now WM users for good and will always be sold on the next best WM platform because of this site.
yesod7 said:
Also, this site actively opposes software theft, (warez and others like it,) which is the bulk of any copyright problems. It spreads goodwill towards Microsoft, believe it or not; if users have problems with standard Microsoft software, they don't have to just sit there and be unhappy, it can be tweaked. By doing so, people are happier with their Microsoft-driven equipment, and more likely to keep using it than changing to something else. There are countless people on this site who would tell you that without this site, they might not be using a Windows-driven phone.
It is also free tech-support for Microsoft, which saves them loads of money.
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Yup, that's it.
TheChampJT said:
LOL! I was going to post something else, but I'm pretty sure everybody has already said it, or thinks it! To much good comes from this site! Think about it, how many users of this site are now WM users for good and will always be sold on the next best WM platform because of this site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen to that!
Why haven't they done anything?
because nobody there is smoking crack
Would you close down a site that gets people talking about your products ? that is full of people writing programs that enhances the usability of your products? that's a great place to see some ideas you might steal for later versions of your OS.
This is free R&D!
duude said:
i mean, everything on this site is pretty much microsoft, which should create some copyright issues.
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Click to collapse
Alas, I saw this differently with others. I think the question is very out of topic since this is an All-HTC-Devices forum, not an M$ WM forum. It's only 'coincidence' that after these years, HTC always used WM as their OS.
If HTC decided in the future that they will build their own OS, or maybe use Android, then it may trigger M$ to reconsider its stance against this forum. Especially, when we -as always- try to improve our experience with the devices, do it by porting some parts (drivers/softwares) from WM to other OS, or vice versa. Then the issue may be valid.
Btw, I don't know but do you all think it's safe -legally and/or morally- to port other vendor/ODM's part (drivers/softwares/etc) into our HTC devices? I ask this because I saw many attempts already...
I don't know the exact number of people on this site, but I do know that there are a whole lot of people on this site. My point for that last sectence is "would you destroy a site that has FREE workers helping your company out to better there products and gain more money"
Yes, we might receive applications before they are release, but honestly where do you really think we receive those from uuuummmm?
So again, if I was a big company I would never touch this site because I will pass my software to this site let eveyone play with it and then I would know where all the bugs are at. So then I will fix it and then sale it.
There might be alot of poeple on this site but I think MS has a lot more customers that don't even know that this site is even alive.
There you go my 2 cents.
gsessons said:
I don't know the exact number of people on this site, but I do know that there are a whole lot of people on this site. My point for that last sectence is "would you destroy a site that has FREE workers helping your company out to better there products and gain more money"
Yes, we might receive applications before they are release, but honestly where do you really think we receive those from uuuummmm?
So again, if I was a big company I would never touch this site because I will pass my software to this site let eveyone play with it and then I would know where all the bugs are at. So then I will fix it and then sale it.
There might be alot of poeple on this site but I think MS has a lot more customers that don't even know that this site is even alive.
There you go my 2 cents.
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and if the truth be known, they (M$) are happy that the masses dont know., in truth, the people on this site contain more knowledge and expertise than all of m$ combined as far as HTC handsets are concerned and how to tweak and tune the software to ACTUALLY work. it could be perceived as (truth) the Big companies are just mass clearing houses of useless data they can sell for a profit. how many of us came here for the first time only looking for useable software programs? how many of us came here for the first time trying to find a solution to an OEM problem?
M$ has found a truly unique forum in the world of r&d., although probably more out of frustration than than anything else, the majority of talented people here could teach this stuff to most of the employees at m$ about these devices and how they work and why.
I would be very surprised if they didnt have a staff of several people working there monitoring and testing to roms and software packages developed or tweaked through this site. they would have to be unbelieveably arrogant to think this is a bad thing for business, and we all know who one of the richest men and companies in the world is dont we. he didnt just fall off the truck so to speak, he understands..............economics!
With all of that in mind can anyone understand why pocket development is not possible on Visual studio express editions (free).
Isn't that a shoot on the foot? I think so.
I think that a platform with a lot of developers is much more appeling, and then seel more. Only a opinion from someone that will never buy a iphone.
Everywhere I go, I see the following message:
"... links removed due to legal complaint from Microsoft. ..."
They finally got P.Oed enough by the success of this forum and by the fact that you guys are doing everything they can't or won't.
Well, it's a sad day for us all :-(
In the hopes that this forum keeps on doing what it's doing, I say this.
Well done guys! keep on the good work !
And thank you for hearing my rants
I'm not sure why at all it would be considered the end of XDA-developers. Microsoft will still release wm6.5 no doubt so It is just matter of time until WM6.5 is released and then cooking on wm6.5 will start again. Just right now the movie is on pause
And WM 6.1 can continue to be tweaked to our heart's desire.
oh and I also happen to have b16b's WM6.5 if you want that....
I am sure it's a very credibly crafted hoax.
Of course Admins don't want any trouble or harrasement from anyone (certainly such mighty legal giants like Msoft) so they did what all of you would do - take a precautionary measures
Let'em sort it out.
Its just a temporary disturbance in the force far from end of xda LOL
And now I have utopykzebulon's v6 WM6.5 josh's WM6.5 also
"Is this the end of xda-developers?"
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...no.
Not even close.
Same thing happened when wm6.1 was leaked.
/thread
dhob187 said:
Everywhere I go, I see the following message:
"... links removed due to legal complaint from Microsoft. ..."
They finally got P.Oed enough by the success of this forum and by the fact that you guys are doing everything they can't or won't.
Well, it's a sad day for us all :-(
In the hopes that this forum keeps on doing what it's doing, I say this.
Well done guys! keep on the good work !
And thank you for hearing my rants
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just a hoax...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=492791
This thread has been up for a couple of days now...
op, it's not even close to the end! xda will continue on rocking!!
Same thing happened when pre-released WM5.0 builds leaked on XDA-Dev a long time ago. The website lost all it's FTP files to Microsoft back then because of that and yet here it is, still up and running smoothly.
I have strong doubts that xda-dev will go down. Besides, it's not in the best of HTC or Microsoft's interests that they do so. A strong community like the one on xda-dev brings lots of advantages to them. For starters, there's the publicity that they're getting out of this, then there's the strong client base for their devices and OS for which one of the major reasons of purchase is Windows Mobile modability and the advantages this website brings in high-level customization of their own device. Which is what most users like to do: to get the most out of their hard-earned money. And last, but by no means least, there's also the potential feedback on their applications and OS that they can get from xda-dev which might help for future improvements. As for the leaks, i'm sure they really have nothing serious against them, as such leaks keep interest in devices alive. Of course, there are limits to this, as the boys need to keep their pre-release material safe and also incite interest in newer devices, but still... Backwards support is always good for PR.
I can remember when WM5 was in Beta, I added the fix to the Typhoon (orange c500 rom) shortly before it was taken off the FTP... my name is still on the "where has WM5 gone" text file on the root of the ftp those were the days eh?
think of it as a temporary set back... technically roms are no longer hosted on XDA anyways.
Hah, no way is it the end, the links should be back up soon after the admins fix this hoax stuff up. Seriously, the guy who sent the fraudulent emails is such an idiot!
rosebud said:
I can remember when WM5 was in Beta, I added the fix to the Typhoon (orange c500 rom) shortly before it was taken off the FTP... my name is still on the "where has WM5 gone" text file on the root of the ftp those were the days eh?
think of it as a temporary set back... technically roms are no longer hosted on XDA anyways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, they're not. Again, since that little FTP incident. Those were the days...
dhob187 said:
Everywhere I go, I see the following message:
"... links removed due to legal complaint from Microsoft. ..."
They finally got P.Oed enough by the success of this forum and by the fact that you guys are doing everything they can't or won't.
Well, it's a sad day for us all :-(
In the hopes that this forum keeps on doing what it's doing, I say this.
Well done guys! keep on the good work !
And thank you for hearing my rants
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The end is on year 2012 my friend, LOL
And as somebody earlier mentioned this is a very strong WM community, here you can find som stats about xda-developers: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=491608
Cheers
P.S. Be Positive
Might not be such a bad thing anyway
Even if there was an end in sight for xda-dev, another forum would spring up elsewhere to take its place. And that might not be such a bad thing...
xda-dev is one of the most hostile, unfriendly forums I frequent. Incredibly useful, with infinitely valuable resources, but senior members are often arrogant and intentionally unhelpful, and mods are heavy-handed, closing down threads unnecessarily at the drop of a hat.
Microsoft and HTC in good terms with xda?
There has recently been much anxiety in the Windows Mobile ROM cooking world over at XDA-Developers after the web site started receiving take down notices from some-one purporting to be from Microsoft. The practice of making updated firmware for older devices have always been borderline illegal, and the similar practice on the desktop (e.g placing a pirated copy of Windows Vista on a XP machine) would never have been tolerated.
It later turned out the take down notices were rather dubious in origin, and did not really conform to the format used by Microsoft. Tweakers.net, a Dutch web site, decided to take the bull by the horns and ask Microsoft and HTC directly what they thought of the situation.
Maarten Sonneveld, from Microsoft Netherlands was very clear. "What is happening there, adjusting ROMs is illegal. They go to get the intellectual property of others." He however, Pilate-like, absolved Microsoft from any responsibility to address the crime. "This intellectual property is not with us. The ROMs are owned by manufacturers or providers, if the branded versions. We supply only the OS."
That leaves the ball in HTC’s court. HTC however had no plans to squash one of the biggest selling points of their phones. "What happens there should not", says HTC Benelux director Mark Moons. "But XDA-Developers is the largest and most active community of Windows Mobile developers. We can not live with ‘em and we can not live without’ em."
The outcome of these statements is therefore than an uneasy truce exists, leaving XDA-Developers to continue their exploits in peace, but always with a gun pointed at their head if either Microsoft or HTC changes their minds. If this were to happen however it is likely that both would see a dramatic loss of market share, as many regulars who only buy HTC Smartphones, abandon the platform in droves.
We hope therefore, as is the case now, that cooler minds continue to prevail.
VIA: wmpoweruser.com
Iam a windows mobile user starting from wizard.
The HTC WM devices are known for few things,
1. Can get free softwares and cracked softwares easily.
2. Device can be SIM,CID, Security unlocked easily.
3. Shall be customized easily with new cooked ROMs.
More than anything, all these were available for free.
But now,
1. Security/Sim unlock - pay money
2. Hard SPL - pay money.
3. Cooked ROMs- More cooks demanding registration in their own website and demanding (almost) donations for cooked ROMs with each one telling their own reason(web hosting charges, low internet speed, spending personal time, stolen device,etc)
4. Collecting donations telling some of their attactive future projects which they never have a plan to complete,
etc.
This forum has become a place for earning money for more people nowadays.
So figure out how to do everything all by your self.
Seriously, I don't blame anyone that charges for worthwhile software. I've spent a few hundred dollars on software for my phone which I spent much more money on.. I figure it only makes sense.
Not agree
If some are making money with the work of others is too bad.
But here all Devs give us their work for free, donations are accepted but no paying.
Of course this site has grown a lot and it´s a reference point on the web
Respectfully,
skr_xd said:
Iam a windows mobile user starting from wizard.
The HTC WM devices are known for few things,
1. Can get free softwares and cracked softwares easily.
2. Device can be SIM,CID, Security unlocked easily.
3. Shall be customized easily with new cooked ROMs.
More than anything, all these were available for free.
But now,
1. Security/Sim unlock - pay money
2. Hard SPL - pay money.
3. Cooked ROMs- More cooks demanding registration in their own website and demanding (almost) donations for cooked ROMs with each one telling their own reason(web hosting charges, low internet speed, spending personal time, stolen device,etc)
4. Collecting donations telling some of their attactive future projects which they never have a plan to complete,
etc.
This forum has become a place for earning money for more people nowadays.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your a fool i tell you
1, security sim unlock = FREE - the only one ive seen that you have to pay for is that blackstone, diamond, raphael, xperia but then thats only if you dont contribute, all of the rest are ftree but they will accept donations (BTW do u know what the money is used for? maybe its for buying new devices to create helpful softare)
2, Hard spl is free and will stay that way you can donate but for the reasons stated above its worth it
3, rom chefs may need to keep an eyes on what being downloaded so registration is helpful, also the ask for donations but then again rom building takes a lot of time to do and takes dedication and most of all caffiene, if you dont want to donate or resent the fact that theyve created something people like then dont
4, All serious app creator will follow up on the rpomises, every developer and chef will be consistant
to cut a long story short if theys guys werent able to provide this service then u wouldnt be able to have the choice to donate, itd cost you at least three times the amount you would donate
so these are free tools that people make so we can get it for free its either donate for consistent releases or shun them and leave it to companies and commercial solutions that would charge you an arm and a leg and why?
becuase we actually need this stuff
now time for pilots word of the day
if you resent paying or donating for a service then dont pay. but youd be the first to cry when they cant afford to host that rom u want and the sim unlocker you want
these people are the backbone of this forum if you dont like the fact they can make a quick buck either contibute or have a coke, a smile and shut the **** up
just noticed you donated to xda developers, are you some sort of complete thicko
skr_xd said:
Iam a windows mobile user starting from wizard.
The HTC WM devices are known for few things,
1. Can get free softwares and cracked softwares easily.
2. Device can be SIM,CID, Security unlocked easily.
3. Shall be customized easily with new cooked ROMs.
More than anything, all these were available for free.
But now,
1. Security/Sim unlock - pay money
2. Hard SPL - pay money.
3. Cooked ROMs- More cooks demanding registration in their own website and demanding (almost) donations for cooked ROMs with each one telling their own reason(web hosting charges, low internet speed, spending personal time, stolen device,etc)
4. Collecting donations telling some of their attactive future projects which they never have a plan to complete,
etc.
This forum has become a place for earning money for more people nowadays.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi, Pilot showed me this thread.
let me tell you my opinion, as I've been around since HTC universal (same vintage as your wizard) and I make HSPL's and am part of SIM/Security unlocking projects too.
1. warez is not allowed on these forums!!!! so stop discussing that, also this is not HTC specific, so totally nothing to do with XDA please.
2. yah, on the htc wizard there is no radio security to hack. that changed with kaiser and newer devices (MSM7xxx). if you contribute then you can still have the security and sim unlockers free. otherwise, we won't allow shops etc to play the freeloader game and earn money from our work free.
3. Hard-SPL: wow, this shows who you really are. are you a shop who resells htc devices after hacking and customizing them??? because they're the only ones who have to pay for topaz or jade HSPL. if you are just a user, you get the license transparent and free and you even get personal support if something isn't working. so stop complaining if you are just a user - but if you are a shop, then you should understand this scenario.
4. as for roms, I'm not really following that space, so dunno. but if some do that then maybe they are saying the truth, hosting is not free for sure. of course I'm sure you are still not forced to pay for cooked roms, as you mention the word "almost" regarding the donations. so it seems you can still get them free, so then why does it upset you if they'd like you to donate while they still give it to you free if you don't?
if there is a rom you are actually required to pay for - well I guess it's in their right to ask for money, but this is not my area, this is just my personal opinion. show me a link to such a rom though, I'm curious
5. show me such a project? I again have to admit I don't follow everything on XDA, I'm curious to hear about those projects, got any links?
and a summary. as I see it, actually XDA became *less* of a place for earning money - from the viewpoint of the shop owners/phone resellers. (as they are somewhat forced to pay for things now)
XDA used to be a golden mine for these people, reselling devices with cooked roms or selling the software itself on ebay (roms, hardspl/sim unlockers) without paying anything to the following people: rom creators/cooks, HardSPL creators, free sim unlocker creators (for the latter 2: pof, jockyW, Olipro, me).
Although I respect the op opinion let me give you mine;
I cooked loads of ROMs for the wizard and I loved it. Then I got a Hermes and started cooking for it then it hit me, I never had a working device because I was flash/testing sometimes 10 times a day! The ideal solution was to have 2 devices but that costs money and even though I got some donations it was not near enough,so for that and many other reasons I kind of got of the game.
Now I got a touch pro 2 and sure I could have a crack at trying to unlock it but, are you nuts! I mean what happens when I brick it witch often happen trying to crack it?
Who is going to give me £425 for the new device? That rights no one.
Hell it took me 1 year to save up for the current device, then yes people require money because they need new devices’ to crack, to pay for software to do it etc....
Regards,
Ps;
i do not agree with people charging for ROMs or related tools, asking for voluntary donation hell yes, they do deserve it.
its their work so they have the right to charge if they want to....
but there are waaaay more free goodies than paid ones
skr_xd said:
Iam a windows mobile user starting from wizard.
The HTC WM devices are known for few things,
1. Can get free softwares and cracked softwares easily.
2. Device can be SIM,CID, Security unlocked easily.
3. Shall be customized easily with new cooked ROMs.
More than anything, all these were available for free.
But now,
1. Security/Sim unlock - pay money
2. Hard SPL - pay money.
3. Cooked ROMs- More cooks demanding registration in their own website and demanding (almost) donations for cooked ROMs with each one telling their own reason(web hosting charges, low internet speed, spending personal time, stolen device,etc)
4. Collecting donations telling some of their attactive future projects which they never have a plan to complete,
etc.
This forum has become a place for earning money for more people nowadays.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was never forced into paying 1 cent to the developers.
Sorry if i hurt you people here.
It was just from a user point of view.(Iam a NORMAL USER ONLY)
Actually the truth is, iam really fed up of a HTC device and my point was why a user like me need to spend so much for tweaking a HTC device (Its not devs mistake, i adore your opinions) and still not getting a satisfactory result from the device.
This thread was just an outcome of a pure frustration upon the under performing HTC devices and the need of customization & tweaking required
Another side, I do respect the devs who give their time for developing
and i have donated to a few already including XDA dev forum.
Next thing about,
Cooked ROMs- More cooks demanding registration in their own website and demanding (almost) donations for cooked ROMs with each one telling their own reason(web hosting charges, low internet speed, spending personal time, stolen device,etc)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If i name a few its not so good and there are supporters for everyone and opposers for everyone and will openup a fight here.
Look at some ROM threads in Blackstone and Kaiser forum and you can understand why i say like this.
I think its a free world & one should have the right to earn from his talent if its worthy of giving him/her few bucks.
Cracks/Serials are there for every OS, Reverse engineering is a reality, imagine they are asking people to donate them & people are even paying them. So I don't think one should not ask for donations for a genuine original work.
Cooked ROM's are really a way for any young developer to earn a few bucks. I know few cooks personally & I know how good it is for them to earn. Its like a part time job for them.
I although appreciate the spirit under which the poster has commented on this tendency but that simply doesn't point out to original issues involved. Its something more than just cooked ROM's, HSPL etc.
I felt bad when I saw medkid left cooking for Kaiser just because he failed to garner enough donations out of it. But then its about thinking personally, its his intellectual property, who am I to feel wrong about it. If I dont like it I should move to other cooks w/o complaining.
Cheerz
Regards
Saksham Katyal
I admit that I am a cook, and a skinner that asks for donations. BUT I only ask for them in the form of tips, if you like what I do, tip me, just like at your favorite restaurant. I only ask for them on things that I have completed, or at least have uploaded already (I consider nothing of mine ever complete, there is always something to be done with it.)
But people asking for donation for things they havent released yet. i think isnt the best way because then expectations are high and what happens if you cant deliver?
skr_xd said:
Next thing about,
If i name a few its not so good and there are supporters for everyone and opposers for everyone and will openup a fight here.
Look at some ROM threads in Blackstone and Kaiser forum and you can understand why i say like this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't like it then don't use the fruits of their dedication and hard work.
Is there anything worse in this world then someone who takes and takes without giving back ( what 10 , 20 dollars/euros in donations ) and then has the gall to complain when people take their work semi private ?
I can provide technical help to the many users here , based on my many years of WM experience and my voracious appetite for reading and searching out info., but have yet to dedicate the time and patience it takes to program an app or cook a rom. So I happily and with as much $ compensation as I can, take advantage of everyone's abundant generosity. I do so by gladly adhering to any steps , hoops, registrations they may require.
The only thing I question is their sanity. If it was my creativeness, dedication and talent, I would leave all you people in the dust, run straight to the iphone app store, come up some stupid app like " iboobs " that all the iPhone drones ( who by the way have to pay just to poop with the iPhone in their hands ) can't do with out. Collect my tens of thousands of dollars from the Apple app store and live wealthily ever after. Instead of having to deal with some of the idiots here, who piss and moan and ( start new *****ing threads ) everytime a chef even suggests that he may like to take control of his work by having people register on his own site
denco7 said:
The only thing I question is their sanity. If it was my creativeness, dedication and talent, I would leave all you people in the dust, run straight to the iphone app store, come up some stupid app like " iboobs " that all the iPhone drones ( who by the way have to pay just to poop with the iPhone in their hands ) can't do with out. Collect my tens of thousands of dollars from the Apple app store and live wealthily ever after. Instead of having to deal with some of the idiots here, who piss and moan and ( start new *****ing threads ) everytime a chef even suggests that he may like to take control of his work by having people register on his own site
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, maybe not as crazy... there are many iphones and the appstore definitely makes it easy to find the apps, but nothing is perfect in this world either; if you don't have a really kick ass program then it will never make its way into the top 100 or whatever, and then it'll be hard to find it between the loads of other similar apps in the same category (especially as the search function is reported to be near useless). and many iphone owners are not willing to pay anything - just like on other platforms; many more don't even care about installing apps. just like for any other smartphone (though maybe the rate is a bit better for iphone? don't know numbers so maybe not at all). so you still have to do real work to get rich even on iphone. I read a blog of someone who made an iphone game which didn't get that successful even though it was an okay game, that's how I know so much about this
and you have to feel dedicated too.. I wasn't going to invest 99 usd and into a Mac so easily anyway for a platform that does not excite me that much though, if apple releases an iphone with a proper hardware keyboard and better screen resolution, I will be a lot more interested.
now this would make a new topic, i.e. why didn't we XDA devs switch to iphone yet or why should we?
Why this GREAT forum just can not help those GREAT freeware makers a better life?
Add one: If people think that donations can make them money you are wrong. Check the posted donation list and calculate the total amount and total time spent please.
skr_xd said:
Iam a windows mobile user starting from wizard.
The HTC WM devices are known for few things,
1. Can get free softwares and cracked softwares easily.
2. Device can be SIM,CID, Security unlocked easily.
3. Shall be customized easily with new cooked ROMs.
More than anything, all these were available for free.
But now,
1. Security/Sim unlock - pay money
2. Hard SPL - pay money.
3. Cooked ROMs- More cooks demanding registration in their own website and demanding (almost) donations for cooked ROMs with each one telling their own reason(web hosting charges, low internet speed, spending personal time, stolen device,etc)
4. Collecting donations telling some of their attactive future projects which they never have a plan to complete,
etc.
This forum has become a place for earning money for more people nowadays.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Come on man. You're indian. You should try and understand.
1. Security/CID was never free to begin with. Even with other devices and besides, if you contribute to the forums, olipro or cmonex will probably give it to you free.
2. Since when did HardSPL cost money?
3. More cooks sure, but the really good ones stayed and don't demand a single cent to download. If you can't accept that, learn cooking yourself and then you'll appreciate what they do.
4. I think you're really referring to TouchXperience here lol which is in effect and will be completed.
I don't see why one shouldn't charge and make a little money
I think the developers should charge for their work! w/out it you would have nothing, so why complain?
BTW, I have never been forced to pay for anything here, but love donating cos w/out a stable ROM my phone would SUCK. Donating allows the developer to buy more devices (hopefully) so they can cook more roms etc, it makes sense!
you are just STINJY!
I think people are not appreciating that fine thread running behind the idea of poster. I support him in that.
nvm nvm nvm
Well I have been reading this thread, but now decided to pen down my views.
I have been the member since there were only Himalaya and Wallaby.I remember so many revolutionary events, viz, porting of wm 2003 SE to Himalaya, then wm 5.0 to Himalaya and BA, cooking tools release etc etc..Well the creators never asked for donation and whole world got benefited.
Considering the current scenario, all I can suggest that xda-dev should decide whether it wants to act like a complete dedicated support to HTC devices or an independent windows mobile Solutions provider.If it is support, then of course no donations, if solution, then yes has right to accept money for providing service.But, then it should not discriminate.It should also have dedicated sections for other WM devices, Asus, Samsung, Acer/eten.
Anyone who wants to provide solution shd register it with the xda-dev by paying small amount and can charge for providing own unique solutions..well just like an app store.This will help the website and there will not be any fakers and we have genuine people to deal with.
It is true that this website is a source for millions of Shop keepers, resellers for various things viz unlock, hard spl, customization, support when device is almost bricked etc etc.But this is limited to HTC devices.Now the scenario is changing, end user doesn't have any time and wants the proper trusted solution irrespective of brand, so if it want to buy a Windows Mobile, it has lot of options other than HTC, and a reseller or shop keeper, will have to provide the same as the end user wants, and now when we have i phone, no one will think more about it.
I feel this community has indeed given a global platform for many talented people.Let's keep it clean and respect it.No one shd point a finger like this thread.
Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?
Just allow electronic Darwinism to take its course! If someone is taking the piss, they'll soon die out, if people use common sense and don't encourage them
Most devs that I see, Or rather use ROMS from are quite active and very supportive and NEVER even spoke anything about donation. I was happy to donate for a few of them coz it is really worth it.
I think this opinion you speak of might have been due to your ill luck or some pretty bad devs you have encountered.
I'm not saying you are wrong but I'm saying that your prespective might be due to a unlucky or bad dev (one bad apple) incident.
As far as my phone the Desire Hd is concerned, the developers are still just as helpful and enthusiastic as ever.
There is no developer like a bad or good developer, its because of them 99% of people are using roms without donating, 1 % donates to developers
I know a lot of developer who work on projects for free, but even the developers out there like to drink a beer paid from their projects
-> Donations are welcome!
Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.
tolis626 said:
Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)
Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with that.
Archer said:
I totally agree with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As does XDA, hence the rules at present
This is not a platform to make money from. For anyone who cares, I have made a total of £0.00 from XDA. I don't wish to make personal profit from here.
I spend large numbers of hours on the site, doing stuff behind the scenes. If I was to draw up a "bill" for the past year, it would be in the hundreds of thousands of pounds, based on the price I charge for my services.
But I wouldn't ever want to see myself as selling something here. That's not what this site is about! There's plenty of places to sell stuff. If you make your own app, fair enough. If you modify something belonging to someone else, then nope
bwheelies said:
Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?
Ok, I have been trolling here for sometime and have seen some devs who ask for donations. However, the vast majority just contribute their time and hard work for the betterment of the platform and the community as a whole.
As for slow development, I think a lot of that has to do with the phone. I have the SGS 2 and there is active development for that with a lot of great roms. My wife has the 4g Slide and the development is slightly slower. It all comes down to the popularity of the phone.
If devs make a product good enough for people to pay for then good for them. On the other hand, if they ask for donations but their software is crap then no one will buy it.
It's a free market, let them try.
It is alot of work and it requires a special skill set to do what devs do, so I can appreciate them asking for a couple bucks for their trouble.
I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..
Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
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I agree with Cabe24i.See below.
Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)
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The point isn't whether they are allowed to accept money for their work.They surely should put their creations on sale.And exactly here is where I agree with you.ROMs and kernels aren't their work.As good as someone's modifications can be,it's not new code written by them entirely(except for some patches,etc).While their work is and should be rewarded,it should in no way become mandatory that we pay to use it.It should be optional as it is.It's fair for everyone that way.Those who deserve it will get paid,end of story.
Selling apps on XDA is another story,but it's also completely right to do so,as they could just sell those on the market and be done with it.But it's about applications written anew,not modified ones.Did anyone sell a modified copy of a game?I don't think so.
We should show our appreciation to developers,but they should also show us some respect(I am more than content with what's going on here on the dev side,it's XDA's ungrateful noobs that I'm mad with like most of you here).Fraud is a crime after all.
I can see both sides of that argument actually. Whilst I do think it's unreasonable for a developer to request money for merely tweaking a ROM, it's the same as a painter painting your living room. He's not made you a brand new living room from scratch. He's just painted your existing one. That's similar to a ROM tweaker.
That said, I do understand and abide by the rules - I'm not arguing them. Just playing devil's advocate.
lowandbehold said:
My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?
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Not sure if you are asking me. I have a Droid Charge.
F2504x4 said:
I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..
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This is one of the best posts I have seen on xda. Judging by this, the developer who posted a no effort ROM in a stagnant phone development scene who says donate and does nothing with the ROM is nothing but a modern day P.T. Barnum.
First of all, you don't have to donate
But I agree with OP it's not done to demand donations to finish work.
If your work is good and you support it well, possibilities for a donation are much higher.
But it is no guarantee for donations.
But isn't respect from others the best payment for your work? That's the reason I do my share for the community