is there any application for talktime and data usage logger/counter for Mango??
Would be nice to have this. Sms counter, talk time counter and data usage counter. Even my old Sony Ericsson has this simple options but this superior smartphones really suck at some basic options.
I would build it right away
I (and probably a dozen other devs) would start build such an app right away, if only Microsoft made available the APIs needed for such an app to be possible.
If there was a way to query the information, an app to display and sum times would be rather trivial indeed.
Now, it's just a dream and maybe something for unlocked phones running "homebrew" software...
Well, on T-Mobile (at least in the US) there's a Marketplace app that does this, but it gets it by querying T-Mobile's data, not by collecting the data on the phone itself...
Maybe something similar exists, or could be created, for other carriers? There's probably a website taht most carriers offer this info on, and the app could check that site with your credentials and report for you. A really cool version might even use a live tile to update your remaining usage periodically.
i have seen a post about nokias new app that right about to come out. it has a call duration history, incoming/outgoing calls, summary, and the same for data transfer. i've seen some pictures but i dont remember how they will call it. but if nokia has this app, why would the other wp7 lack of this feature
Well, the data is almost certainly available within the phone *somewhere* and the problem is just a matter of finding it. Mind you, I'd be very interested in pulling apart that Nokia app anyhow, because I'm not sure that the normal sandbox would give enough permissions to access such data. If it doesn't, but the app still pulls the data from the phone directly, that means it's using a high-privilege Nokia firmware component (probably a driver), and that means one more potential avenue for interop-unlock.
GoodDayToDie said:
Well, the data is almost certainly available within the phone *somewhere* and the problem is just a matter of finding it. Mind you, I'd be very interested in pulling apart that Nokia app anyhow, because I'm not sure that the normal sandbox would give enough permissions to access such data. If it doesn't, but the app still pulls the data from the phone directly, that means it's using a high-privilege Nokia firmware component (probably a driver), and that means one more potential avenue for interop-unlock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah the problems are in the permissions we have today. but i have an rooted htc 7 pro and looked some folders inside the windows folder and some registry i couldn't see before with an dev.unlock. i have found such data, or the triggers for the data, some named incoming calls, outgoing calls, and so on, i have found that but i dont have an clue where the data is thats just for developers, they get it, and i would love to test this nokia app, i have seen it and it is very usefull!
GoodDayToDie said:
Well, the data is almost certainly available within the phone *somewhere* and the problem is just a matter of finding it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would it be feasible that so far Microsoft itself does not bother to keep count about calls and their durations in stock WP7, and that for the said Nokia app the driver component not only hands the info to the app but does the counting as well?
I don't think there's an App that can show the data usage other than those which fetches data directly from the service provider and so is dependent on that. Other than that I don't think any such app exists, but sure it would be great if an app for that is made.
lamborg said:
I don't think there's an App that can show the data usage other than those which fetches data directly from the service provider and so is dependent on that. Other than that I don't think any such app exists, but sure it would be great if an app for that is made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but i saw the app with my own eyes, it was in development, and they said it is right about to come out... it is now a week ago.
---------- Post added at 01:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 AM ----------
here i found a link to the post i read...
http://www.coolsmartphone.com/2012/...ia-exclusive-app-looks-like-a-data-usage-app/
"Well prepare to uncross those fingers as it is rumoured that the next Lumia exclusive app will be a data tracker." and i think the screenshots are not all that the app has, i think they put also something in to limit you data. example: you have a dataplan of 500mb it remembers you if you are near 500mb, and you can track it precise. has anybody more info about his app? i found only that what i read last week.
---------- Post added at 01:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 AM ----------
more screenshots here
http://wp7lab.com/news/nokia-usage-...m=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+wp7lab+(wp7lab.com)
@rbrunner7: Pretty unlikely that the OS isn't tracking this info anywhere, but I agree that the Nokia driver may be keeping track itself anyhow. It's actually a significant number of different areas that need to be tracked, though: you've got the various cellular data links (2G/3G/4G/whatever, plus basic GSM if that's even measured anymore) for data, you've got SMS (which goes on a sideband of the voice channel, of some SMS are free and some aren't), you've got MMS (which send notifications by SMS but content by cellular data, and is typically not charged as data usage), and of course you've got cellular call time. If they're *just* tracking data usage (presumably by tapping into the network socket interface, and checking which connection each socket binds to so that it doesn't also count WiFi and such), that's quite possible if still a little complicated.
Ok, I'm a Noob on here. I just got a Android phone & I am interested in various apps from the Android Market but when I read the permissions that most of the apps have listed as to what they can do to the phone and to your privacy I am quite concerned. Is this really an issue as people seem to download apps without worrying about what the app is or could do without your knowledge. I have searched on here & elsewhere & no one seems to be address the issue. Am I just being paranoid?
I have seen that a lot of these apps will prevent the phone or tablet from going into sleep mode, is this true?
Thanks hope I haven't stepped on any toes by asking this, but I can't seem to find anything on the subject. So far I have decided not to download much a select few apps.
Rebel60 said:
Ok, I'm a Noob on here. I just got a Android phone & I am interested in various apps from the Android Market but when I read the permissions that most of the apps have listed as to what they can do to the phone and to your privacy I am quite concerned. Is this really an issue as people seem to download apps without worrying about what the app is or could do without your knowledge. I have searched on here & elsewhere & no one seems to be address the issue. Am I just being paranoid?
I have seen that a lot of these apps will prevent the phone or tablet from going into sleep mode, is this true?
Thanks hope I haven't stepped on any toes by asking this, but I can't seem to find anything on the subject. So far I have decided not to download much a select few apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No worries, no toes are being stepped on.
I agree that the permissions required by apps can sometimes look worrying.
But the description is often misleading. Some times it just looks very intrusive but that permission is needed for something alot more simple. It's a broad topic.
Also alot of users are just not concerned by this or just go with the crowd.
Write the developer and ask him what the permissions are needed for, if his apps description is unclear on that or the permissions seem unrelated to the apps purpose.
When it says, prevents your device from sleeping, it is most likely used to prevent the screen from turning off or dimming while something is progressing on screen. It is also needed to ensure that the cpu finishes the current operation if you press the devices sleep button, so it doesn't stop at some random point which might lead to problems for the app.
If there is a specific app and its permissions you are worried you could just SEARCH and then make a thread and ask about it.
If rooted, search for "PDroid" on XDA to control permissions, or search for "Betterbatterystats" to find programs producing wakelocks and preventing deep sleep.
Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
Aerocaptain said:
If rooted, search for "PDroid" on XDA to control permissions, or search for "Betterbatterystats" to find programs producing wakelocks and preventing deep sleep.
Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But then don't complain if the apps malfunction as a result of interferring with permissions or wakelocks.
Also this is kinda missing the question of the thread.
Dark3n said:
But then don't complain if the apps malfunction as a result of interferring with permissions or wakelocks.
Also this is kinda missing the question of the thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Trying to figure out how either of the options I listed does not address the concerns in the OP......
I think you should re-read the OP. Perhaps slower.
Betterbatterystats- used to indicate apps that are using wakelocks that prevent or interrupt deep sleep. Does nothing else. Does not stop them or even hinder them in any way. Its simply a tool to identify problem apps. How does that interfere with the apps themselves?
Pdroid-gives the ability to block (or regulate) unwanted actions from the apps specified by the user. Basically solves the permissions concern in the OP. And does not require root access to operate. The whole point of this software is to interfere with the users apps. If a program is looking into my contacts, I'd like to be able to stop it. If a downloaded app stops functioning because it wants access to my contacts for no discernable reason, delete the app. This app is only needed because of the plethora of greedy sometimes malicious developers releasing software that invades user privacy.
Rebel60, feel free to peruse these threads and see if either is the right fit for you.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1357056
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1179809
Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
Aerocaptain said:
Trying to figure out how either of the options I listed does not address the concerns in the OP......
I think you should re-read the OP. Perhaps slower.
Betterbatterystats- used to indicate apps that are using wakelocks that prevent or interrupt deep sleep. Does nothing else. Does not stop them or even hinder them in any way. Its simply a tool to identify problem apps. How does that interfere with the apps themselves?
Pdroid-gives the ability to block (or regulate) unwanted actions from the apps specified by the user. Basically solves the permissions concern in the OP. And does not require root access to operate. The whole point of this software is to interfere with the users apps. If a program is looking into my contacts, I'd like to be able to stop it. If a downloaded app stops functioning because it wants access to my contacts for no discernable reason, delete the app. This app is only needed because of the plethora of greedy sometimes malicious developers releasing software that invades user privacy.
Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is viewing aquired wakelocks helping the OP understand what aquiring a wakelock does, and why the app did it? It's not about who, but what and why. Any type of wakelock an app aquires prevents deep sleep and a wakelock can not be used to interrupt a device that is in deep sleep.
Again the question was not about blocking permissions, but why some apps want all those permissions and why no one seems concerned with the obvious privacy issue.
While PDroid does not require root to operate, it does require it to be installed, so in the end it still needs a rooted device.
Why did you install an app that needs a worrying permission for no discernable reason anyways?
Thanks for the general developer insult. Developers really are the greediest folks *sarcasm* of them all.
Where did you take that from? How many developers of greedy apps did you ask about the permissions they request?
You can't really make that assumption as just a requested permission doesn't do anything at all by itself and what the app is actually doing with it, is unknown without sourcecode.
...and now i jumped aboard the off topic train, damn
In most cases, it does not matter why an app uses wakelocks. The fact that it does alone is important. It allows the user to identify the trouble app and either tinker with its settings to reduce the wakelock or delete it altogether if the app is not important to the user. Generally speaking, if I would like to maximize my battery endurance, the need to minimize wakelocks is a necessity. After several months of use, a user may not remember every setting he/she setup in their apps. Utilizing betterbatterystats, one could identify the apps that use short sync intervals such as email syncing every 15 minutes or weather syncing every 30 minutes and change them to longer sync periods which would dramatically decrease those pesky wakelocks and save some battery life. Both of those simple examples illustrate in general terms, how important knowledge of wakelocks could be to the battery hungry user. This of course is only one of many applications this program can be used for.
My Pdroid example, once again was a generic sample of the many ways app privacy is a concern. There are a ton of apps on the market that uses the internet even though the internet isn't needed to run the program. Yes more than not, the app is either varifying license files or uploading "anonymous user stats," however that is not all cases and users should be able to control that app and the information it transmits.
Finally, yes I looked up your information and noticed the developer notation and knew you would be offended by my developer comment. But I did not mean to insinuate that you were in that minority. I am unfamiliar with your work. Android is an open source platform and users should have full control over their devices. That is why I through those options out there. Anyone that disagrees with my full control statement should move to the iPhone and enjoy its closed platform.
Rebel60, I hope you find a way to fully utilize your device without fear of privacy infringement or apps that excessively deplete your battery. There are many people on XDA with a passion for these devices. And many different opinions. Take the time to evaluate your options and pick the right solution for you.
Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
Aerocaptain said:
In most cases, it does not matter why an app uses wakelocks. The fact that it does alone is the issue. Generally speaking, if I would like to maximize my battery endurance, the need to minimize wakelocks is a necessity. After several months of use, a user may not remember every setting he/she setup in their apps. Utilizing betterbatterystats, one could identify the apps that use short sync intervals such as email syncing every 15 minutes or weather syncing every 30 minutes. Both of those simple examples illustrate in general terms, how important knowledge of wakelocks could be to the battery hungry user. With that knowledge one could change their sync intervals and save precious battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, it would definitely help a user identifying battery drainers and in those cases it does not matter why the wakelock was aquired if it is what causes the drain. But the question was not about batteries, but about what/why wakelocks are and the description of the wakelock permission itself.
While BetterBatteryStats being a great tool, it does not answer that question. (Hence my offtopic remark)
Aerocaptain said:
My Pdroid example, once again was a generic sample of the many ways app privacy is a concern. There are a ton of apps on the market that uses the internet even though the internet isn't needed to run the program. Yes more than not, the app is either varifying license files or uploading "anonymous user stats," however that is not all cases and users should be able to control that app and the information it transmits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While bug reports or anonymous statistics are one part of it, i think most of the internet permission needs come from ads that are displayed. I don't use ads, so i'm a bit unfamiliar on that topic.
If solely googles licensing service is used, the internet permission is not needed, just the 'CHECK_LICENSE' permission (which is an extra permission just for that purpose).
It is also often used to update the welcome dialogs with news, if a dev does not want to release a new version everytime he wants to tell his users something.
Aerocaptain said:
Finally, yes I looked up your information and noticed the developer notation and knew you would be offended by my developer comment. But I did not mean to insinuate that you were in that minority. I am unfamiliar with your work. Android is an open source platform and users should have full control over their devices. That is why I through those options out there. Anyone that disagrees with my full control statement should move to the iPhone and enjoy its closed platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not denying that there are greedy and or malicous devs out there. It was the 'plethora of greedy sometimes malicious developers' that threw me a bit off. I see you meant it differently, as you wrote 'in that minority'. As english is not my main language, i might have understood it a bit too harsh too .
Most of my work falls into the 'Tools' category, if you have question about them (or the permissions ), write me a PM.
I fully agree that everyone should have full control over their devices and i also think that users should have the possibility of choice (i.e. apple selecting apps that are published vs androids more or less freedom of apps, though one might have to sort through a 'plethora' of useless apps, i wouldn't trade it for apples store).
[I needed all those big quotes to reflect what i'm responding to as you seem to edit your posts alot after you made the. Makes it a bit difficult to answer ]
Thanks
Dark3n said:
No worries, no toes are being stepped on.
I agree that the permissions required by apps can sometimes look worrying.
But the description is often misleading. Some times it just looks very intrusive but that permission is needed for something alot more simple. It's a broad topic.
Also alot of users are just not concerned by this or just go with the crowd.
Write the developer and ask him what the permissions are needed for, if his apps description is unclear on that or the permissions seem unrelated to the apps purpose.
When it says, prevents your device from sleeping, it is most likely used to prevent the screen from turning off or dimming while something is progressing on screen. It is also needed to ensure that the cpu finishes the current operation if you press the devices sleep button, so it doesn't stop at some random point which might lead to problems for the app.
If there is a specific app and its permissions you are worried you could just SEARCH and then make a thread and ask about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the answer. I think this best answers what I was concerned about. A lot of apps say that they can dial numbers in your contacts, alter settings, and a lot of other things that make me hesitant to download the app.
My phone is not rooted, although I would like for it to be, but am afraid I will brick it if I don't do something right. I don't know anything about wavelocks etc.
Rebel60 said:
Thanks for the answer. I think this best answers what I was concerned about. A lot of apps say that they can dial numbers in your contacts, alter settings, and a lot of other things that make me hesitant to download the app.
My phone is not rooted, although I would like for it to be, but am afraid I will brick it if I don't do something right. I don't know anything about wavelocks etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whether your new to android or a veteran, XDA has all of the information you'll need to educate yourself. Rooting is not for everyone and should only be attempted by someone comfortable with the process. It does however open huge doors to more control and customization with your device. My advice to you is first get to know the Android platform for a few months. In the meantime do some research and see for yourself the pros and cons of rooting. There are dozens of threads with people that are in the same situation as you. Learn from them and talk with them. If you have a direct question about android, feel free to PM me. I'd be more than happy to help in any way I can. Good luck & enjoy your device.
Sent from CDMA V6 SC GNexus w/Liquid & Franco.kernel
Rooting is pretty simple if you invest some reading time. Just make sure to search alot before asking .
Also be aware that giving an app root access is equivalent to granting every possible permission there is and more.
I'm sure most users are not fully aware of that.
So allowing an app root access is a huge trust investment in the dev, don't do it for fishy looking apps .
Read the description
Try reading through the apps full description. A lot of developers will explain why their app needs those scary sounding permissions.
If they don't explain, you could always contact the developer (seems almost like google requires app listings to include a 'contact the developer' link somewhere).
Well Folks,
So I've been using this OS now for 2 full months and by full I mean I have spent most of my free time learning about it and as much as I find this OS exciting and I believe this is where computing is really at now, I thought I'd share some thoughts on its irritants and get your feedback and opinions about it, so that it could be improved upon in future iterations.
I would like to mention that I have been using computers since the days of punched cards back in the 70s and that I'm no stranger to writing programs, although I am not a computing or IT professional and have only dabbled working on a few programs and scripts only to the extent of doing what was necessary for my work.
That being said, here's some of what I think of this OS, its strengths and weaknesses, its bugs (some, most probably from Google, would insist they are features - more on this later) and its successes. I hope that by posting this others will add their comments, rants and raves as well.
To moderators, if this has already been discussed or of this should be moved to another forum or in any way wish to criticize it, feel free to do so.
***
As much as I was a Microsoft fan during the 90s, this OS sold me as the only one where freedom to innovate and a large community of enthusiasts seem to thrive, whereas Microsoft has become sclerotic and is now under control of corporate culture and thinking, in other words, it's lost its soul and is just running on inertia. I'll stop here so as not to insult the grays who have taken control of it and think it's the best thing since sliced bread.
The open source / free software (lets not get into semantics, please!) sure has fostered a lot of friendly development and sharing and this is definitely the way of the future, notwithstanding what corporate America believes. History has proven that small entities have always been the most productive in society, and it shows in real life and especially here: Although Google, who is the de-facto giant in control of the platform, officially frowns on user control and participation into the OS, it actually benefits from it and doesn't interfere too much with its evolution and as far as I can see, has actually embraced quite a few innovations that we've seen coming to life here and on other forums.
In other words, they don't like it when developers modify it, but are happy to benefit from it in the end, except perhaps those innovations that give more control to users that they wish users should have, but at least and contrarily to Apple and Microsoft, they are not persecuting those who innovate. God knows we already have way too much of that military-style control in our society where major corporations and their lawyers dictate pretty much what citizens can and cannot do.
As much as this OS is promising with its fundamental openness (at least at its roots) and is the least oppressive of them all, there is still a lot to do, or should I say, a lot of restrictions to lift and doors to open to make it a truly open and free platform for software development, and this goes straight back to Google and its overbearing influence on the development of this OS. But I guess we have had to sacrifice some freedom in order to get some support from this corporate giant; so here are some things that, over the past two months experience with the platform, I find severely lacking and in dire need of rethinking:
- Google's overbearing attitude and control over users, especially personified in the Play Store, where one cannot comment freely anymore and the use of which has been aggravating to no end and THE cause of crashes and dysfunction of the device: It only works some times and is so ingrained in the OS that when it misbehaves, you often have to no choice but to reinitialize the OS (aka the 'cold boot'), which, of course, causes havoc with your data and personal settings, which brings me to my next issue:
- The File System: Where is my stuff stored and why is it so difficult to find it and save it? You'd think it's a crime to save your own data! What gives? Why is it so difficult for apps or user settings to be saved in a location chosen by the user? Just try this: of all you apps, how many of them can you access the data from outside of the application and keep safe for the next time when your phone needs to be reinitialized?
- Connection to external devices: We all agree that connection is king and the key to efficient use of portable devices. Can someone explain to me then why does Android make is so difficult to access and transfer files between LOCAL DEVICES such as USB drives and computers and why it must hide some parts of itself and makes every effort to hide user data and keep it out of reach from its owner?
- The Cloud Fad: why is it that Google insists so much on taking over my Data? Why is it not telling me where it is stored and why is it hiding it from me? Knowing how Google manipulates and basically snoops in on everything you do (it's been proven), why would anyone in their right mind trust to have their stuff stored out of their reach when external hard drive so cheap it's almost free? Can someone explain what the advantage is to me, especially when wireless connections are precarious at best and data transport costs more and more? You find that 'convenient'?
- Background Data: Can someone tell me why my device needs to transport SO MUCH stuff in the background and why it needs to do so when it can operate quite happily otherwise when it notices that there isn't a data connection available? Doesn't Google realize that Wireless Data is horrendously expensive? Why can I not, as a user, control what data is sent back in the background in a granular way instead of having to shut it down at system level? Is Google afraid what users might find out about what information is sent to their servers without their explicit knowledge? Which brings me finally to
- Permissions: Why is it so difficult for users to control application permissions? Just like licenses, we only have the choice to 'take it or leave it', without any true knowledge what we sold the devil. Permissions are pernicious and should be under total control of the user. Those developers who need those permissions should explain them all and make it possible for users to deactivate them all so that users could see if the reduced functionality is worth it or not. LET USERS DECIDES WHAT GOES ON THEIR DEVICE!
***
So that's it for my Saturday afternoon rant. Like I said, these things have irritated me for a long time. If you have objections, comments or accolades and additions, here's the place to do so, unless of course the moderators decide otherwise: if this has been discussed somewhere else and I've bothered you with this post, by all means let me know.
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
User data is stored in the /data partition. Apps can be found in /data/app and app data is found in /data/data
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
You can control an apps permissions, again with an app that needs root access. Found on the Play Store.
Sent from my Slim E4GT using xda premium
Mattix724 said:
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that is the beauty of Android
Mattix724 said:
User data is stored in the /data partition. Apps can be found in /data/app and app data is found in /data/data
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great to know! But you must admit that having to ask, or more precisely not being told where it is, is disturbing! Because what is more important than your data? WHY does it have to be so difficult to get to it? Why the secrecy? Don't users deserve to know where their files are and be able to select where to store them? Why am I not AUTOMATICALLY given the CHOICE as to its name and its location on my device?
Mattix724 said:
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but why is such an essential function NOT part of the OS and what more, why does it require the user to VIOLATE his warranty (by rooting) to do so? Don't you see what's WRONG with this?
Mattix724 said:
You can control an apps permissions, again with an app that needs root access. Found on the Play Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I understand; but doing so often breaks the apps. WHY do we need these permissions IMPOSED upon us in the first place? Doesn't it strike you as WRONG that so many apps need to access your most private information?
And coming back to the Google Play Store: I've used my device for two months and had to wipe it clean TWICE already and EVERY TIME because the Play Store refused to work anymore! Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? Doesn't it hint at some homeland-security-esque infiltration deep into the OS from the part of Google?
***
In any case, I thank you for pointing out the practical solutions and workarounds and for getting the ball rolling, so to speak; but my point was more philosophical: WHY should we have to essentially "fight system" with these workarounds to do such straightforward things as as saving documents in a place of the user's choosing, being able to transfer files directly to his PC and being able to keep user privacy?
doesn't that bother anyone?
Shouldn't Android become more open and accessible as a platform that truly empowers its users and leave Apple and Microsoft to cater to those who couldn't be bothered?
Looking forward to your answers!
I sware people will complain nomatter what
Sent by Hellybelly 4.2.2
Disabling Background Data Completely?
Mattix724 said:
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
Sent from my Slim E4GT using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, so I have looked very extensively, spending hours searching for a way to disable background data and although they are many ways to do so when on cellular data, short of shutting off WiFi altogether, I have not found any discussion, much less a way to do so completely when on WiFi.
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
So the question remains: short of shutting off data altogether, how can I disable background data completely?
Wouldn't it be possible to either fake a connection so as to fool the system into thinking there is a connection for its hidden background processes, or to wake a connection up on demand when initiating querries and put it to sleep immediately after the answer has arrived?
Old faithful said:
OK, so I have looked very extensively, spending hours searching for a way to disable background data and although they are many ways to do so when on cellular data, short of shutting off WiFi altogether, I have not found any discussion, much less a way to do so completely when on WiFi.
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
So the question remains: short of shutting off data altogether, how can I disable background data completely?
Wouldn't it be possible to either fake a connection so as to fool the system into thinking there is a connection for its hidden background processes, or to wake a connection up on demand when initiating querries and put it to sleep immediately after the answer has arrived?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A simple data firewall program will take care of that. It will allow you to control what and when things get a data connection.
zelendel said:
A simple data firewall program will take care of that. It will allow you to control what and when things get a data connection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... I'm using Avast and its firewall doesn't have the option to turn off background data on Wi-Fi, it's either turn off Wi-Fi or not, no option to just turn off background data and leave access to foreground data. I've tried a few other apps that don't have this option either; it's all or nothing.
Do you know of any apps that have that granular choice? Could you suggest a few?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2
Old faithful said:
...
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what sort of background data do you want to disable? regarding weather, email, and news, turn off auto sync (disable it all, or by program).
edscholl said:
what sort of background data do you want to disable? regarding weather, email, and news, turn off auto sync (disable it all, or by program).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Precisely ... WHAT sort of background data needs to go on anyway?
Fetching the weather info takes up a few tens of KB. What then does it need to transfer megabytes in the background for then? My wife's weather widget in particular has used over 200 MB over the past month in background data whereas it has only needed a couple of megs to update itself! Doesn't that seem exaggerated?
My point is, what is background data needed for when these apps work perfectly well on demand with a tiny fraction of the bandwidth? Why is there no disclosure what exactly it is used for, if shutting data off when not in use has absolutely no detrimental effect on the function of the app, in other words, what's really going on?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2
Count your blessings!
I agree with you to some extent. Of course, you can do anything with root access, but why isn't this right here in front of me out of the box. With my Galaxy S III, managing the file system is a pain, and considering my USB Sync cable doesn't work long enough to make file transfers of 100MB+, this is a real problem. I don't want everything in the cloud, I want it here. I don't have internet (fast data speeds, at the least) everywhere. I would hope that Android advances with these features. I also wish there was a way, out of the box with skinned (by carrier or manufacturer) devices that you could disable all skins and themes and use the glorious Stock Android.
Seriously though, count your blessings, at least you're not using iOS!
Old faithful said:
Precisely ... WHAT sort of background data needs to go on anyway?
Fetching the weather info takes up a few tens of KB. What then does it need to transfer megabytes in the background for then? My wife's weather widget in particular has used over 200 MB over the past month in background data whereas it has only needed a couple of megs to update itself! Doesn't that seem exaggerated?
My point is, what is background data needed for when these apps work perfectly well on demand with a tiny fraction of the bandwidth? Why is there no disclosure what exactly it is used for, if shutting data off when not in use has absolutely no detrimental effect on the function of the app, in other words, what's really going on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So shut sync off if you prefer. I like my apps up to date when I wake my phone, but nobody is going to force you to keep sync on. This is such a non-issue.
As for weather, I guess it depends what app she's using. Looks like my weather widget used less than 1mb of data in the last month...
Background Data Implications
edscholl said:
So shut sync off if you prefer. I like my apps up to date when I wake my phone, but nobody is going to force you to keep sync on. This is such a non-issue.
As for weather, I guess it depends what app she's using. Looks like my weather widget used less than 1mb of data in the last month...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On my device, with sync off, background data off, I still get 119 KB foreground, 2.33 MB in the background for the past week, on WiFi, whcih I already turn off most of the time, because it's the only way I have found so far to stop the data leak.
I understand this may be a non issue for folks who have gigabytes of bandwidth a month and don't pay $50 per megabyte off contract like we do or $10 for 100MB, but my concern is deeper than that: what's happening in the background? Why do YOU implicitly trust what's happening in the background without full disclosure?
Also, regarding the voracity of Android for data, when I was on windows mobile with push email on a four hour basis, I used to use no more than a few MB per month, and that was with cellular data on at all times and I'd hardly use more than 50MB per month browsing on wap sites which did a great job of cutting out the non-content garbage that is so prevalent on regular 'full' sites these days.
I understand this may seem like a non-issue to those for whom data is plentiful and cheap, and that most of you implicitly trust what apps do with your data in the background, but to find this being dismissed is deeply worrisome to me: why SHOULD we trust Google and others corporations with our personal information, without even as much as a look at what's being transferred and for what reason? Doesn't that disturb anyone at all???
In any case, thank you for answering and keeping the debate open, so to speak.
To turn off background data go to settings, select Data Usage, press menu button and the check the restrict background data check box.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
You can go even further and customize each apps background data usage from the same screen.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Sorry, just saw where you were talking about background data via WiFi....:banghead:
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Old faithful said:
On my device, with sync off, background data off, I still get 119 KB foreground, 2.33 MB in the background for the past week, on WiFi, whcih I already turn off most of the time, because it's the only way I have found so far to stop the data leak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what apps are using data? Why don't you turn off background data if you care? Heck, turn off WiFi and mobile networks when thou don't want to sync if you're worried about leakage.
Old faithful said:
I understand this may be a non issue for folks who have gigabytes of bandwidth a month and don't pay $50 per megabyte off contract like we do or $10 for 100MB, but my concern is deeper than that: what's happening in the background? Why do YOU implicitly trust what's happening in the background without full disclosure?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You implicitly trust apps with some data access when you install it, with the specific access given to you. If you think otherwise, your fooling yourself. I'm not sure why foreground vs background data makes much difference to you once you've trusted the app with data access anyway- it's not like it tells you how much data it's going to use per network transaction if you manually tell it to update...
Old faithful said:
Also, regarding the voracity of Android for data, when I was on windows mobile with push email on a four hour basis, I used to use no more than a few MB per month, and that was with cellular data on at all times and I'd hardly use more than 50MB per month browsing on wap sites which did a great job of cutting out the non-content garbage that is so prevalent on regular 'full' sites these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
50mb a month... I'm not sure I'd bother with a smartphone if I used data so little.
Old faithful said:
I understand this may seem like a non-issue to those for whom data is plentiful and cheap, and that most of you implicitly trust what apps do with your data in the background, but to find this being dismissed is deeply worrisome to me: why SHOULD we trust Google and others corporations with our personal information, without even as much as a look at what's being transferred and for what reason? Doesn't that disturb anyone at all???
In any case, thank you for answering and keeping the debate open, so to speak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We trust them because it makes our lives simpler, and quite frankly, most of us really aren't doing anything all that interesting with our data and Google and others really aren't interested in your personal info (not to be mistaken for an assertion that they're not interested in serving up ads relevant to you). But there's certainly a tradeoff. If you're not comfortable with it, turn it all off, or don't use a smartphone - nobody will hold it against thou.
Konvey said:
I agree with you to some extent. Of course, you can do anything with root access
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you can direct me to an app that allows me to COMPLETELY shut off background data for all apps including the OS, for any type of connection, incuding WiFi, I wouldn't be so concerned, but I have looked for the past two months now and found nothing so far that does that, even the acclaimed Droidwall can't turn background data off, even when everything is turned off, meaning, NO data access whatsoever: the bloody "OS Services" still happily does its thing in the backrground, and there is no way to find out what it does (I tried tPacketCapture - I only get 24 byte long files that I can't read anything out of)
Since it would seem that the problem is deep within the operating system, it would seem that the only way to completely shut off background data would be to give a local host redirect for every BACKGROUND process, such as what is possible in Windows using a 127.0.0.1 riderect. Since I'm a newbie when it comes to Android I don't know how to do it, but surely there must be a way, or a way to connect to WiFi only on demand?
Konvey said:
but why isn't this right here in front of me out of the box. With my Galaxy S III, managing the file system is a pain, and considering my USB Sync cable doesn't work long enough to make file transfers of 100MB+, this is a real problem. I don't want everything in the cloud, I want it here. I don't have internet (fast data speeds, at the least) everywhere. I would hope that Android advances with these features. I also wish there was a way, out of the box with skinned (by carrier or manufacturer) devices that you could disable all skins and themes and use the glorious Stock Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I am still looking for a file explorer with the functionality of my old Norton File Manager (remember that one?). I can't understand why the so-called 'expert' ones such as Root Explorer don't have accessible sorting features (why hide it in settings? Isn't that a basic, essential feature of any file management system to be able to sort based on these common criteria?).
Furthermore, I'd love nothing more than being able to swipe left from the home screen directly into the file system for direct access to shortcuts, packages and data, and to be able to specify where the OS shoudl store MY data (instead of keeping it hidden as is most often the case).
Konvey said:
Seriously though, count your blessings, at least you're not using iOS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more, I'll never have an Apple product in my house, no need to say more, we all know about Apple's control of its users and tyrannical ways. George Orwell had it mostly right, but where he failed is where Big Brother would come from: Not the government. Or perhaps we should say that Major Corporations, through the power of their lobbies, have indeed become the de-facto Government .
Thanks again for your answer, Ed.
edscholl said:
So what apps are using data? Why don't you turn off background data if you care? Heck, turn off WiFi and mobile networks when thou don't want to sync if you're worried about leakage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shutting WiFi off after use is what I've been doing of late, but it's an uphill battle. The minute I turn WiFi back on, the OS, like a ravenous dog, immediately gets into background data mode, trumping the foreground querries by volume. But it's a start
edscholl said:
You implicitly trust apps with some data access when you install it, with the specific access given to you. If you think otherwise, your fooling yourself. I'm not sure why foreground vs background data makes much difference to you once you've trusted the app with data access anyway- it's not like it tells you how much data it's going to use per network transaction if you manually tell it to update...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but to see the data exchange so lopsided (most of it being background) is what makes me wonder what it really does. Perhaps it can be trusted but what bothers me is these apps don't tell you what they really do 'for you' in background mode and why they need so much bandwidth... I mean, how much data is required to transmit temperatures, weather conditions and the such? Heck any update would surely fit in a sub KB transmission even for 3 or 4 cities like I have in my setup...
edscholl said:
50mb a month... I'm not sure I'd bother with a smartphone if I used data so little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To each his own, Ed. When data costs $10 for 100MB and the most you can get is 1GB for $60 (or as low as $30 on promo), you quickly come to your senses. That's, of course, another issue altogether.
Fact is, apart from media such as youtube and other streaming sites, text based information (or information update using apps that are supposed to have built in presentation such as snow fluries for "snow") should require very little data, typically 1KB per full size page. You have to admit that something is wrong with this picture that when I read a 500 word article it requires the same amount of bandwidth as the contents of a whole book!
edscholl said:
We trust them because it makes our lives simpler, and quite frankly, most of us really aren't doing anything all that interesting with our data and Google and others really aren't interested in your personal info (not to be mistaken for an assertion that they're not interested in serving up ads relevant to you). But there's certainly a tradeoff. If you're not comfortable with it, turn it all off, or don't use a smartphone - nobody will hold it against thou.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do make our lives simpler and there is a trade-off, agreed. The point I make is where the line should be crossed. Are we willing to get shoved with 99% non content garbage in order to access the remaining 1% meaningful content? Because that is certainly the going rate for full websites such as cnet, tech republic and others, and when looking at background data on Android, at least from my perspective. I was online back in 1993 when the www started (before on Co$tly Compuserve) and with the limited technology we had at the time we could get access to more meaningful content faster than we can now, and with very, very limited bandwidth!
Ok, ok, enough of the oldtimer rant Maybe you are right and I'm just an old fool. But I'd rather be considered an old fool for asking stupid questions than to accept it all without any question
Old faithful said:
Yes, but to see the data exchange so lopsided (most of it being background) is what makes me wonder what it really does. Perhaps it can be trusted but what bothers me is these apps don't tell you what they really do 'for you' in background mode and why they need so much bandwidth... I mean, how much data is required to transmit temperatures, weather conditions and the such? Heck any update would surely fit in a sub KB transmission even for 3 or 4 cities like I have in my setup...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and as I said, my weather widget uses (beautiful widgets) like 1mb a month. On my phone, the HTC sense widget uses like 5mb.
So if your weather app - again, what apps, specifically, are you having issues with? - is using hundreds of MBS, maybe it's doing a lot more (like live radar or videos), or maybe it's just crap and you should uninstall it.
Old faithful said:
Fact is, apart from media such as youtube and other streaming sites, text based information (or information update using apps that are supposed to have built in presentation such as snow fluries for "snow") should require very little data, typically 1KB per full size page. You have to admit that something is wrong with this picture that when I read a 500 word article it requires the same amount of bandwidth as the contents of a whole book!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are tilting at windmills. The average page size is pushing 1.5mb, and was more than 1k back in the Netscape beta days (15k average ~1995).
It's not uncommon for a http HEADER to be bigger than 1k.
Old faithful said:
They do make our lives simpler and there is a trade-off, agreed. The point I make is where the line should be crossed. Are we willing to get shoved with 99% non content garbage in order to access the remaining 1% meaningful content? Because that is certainly the going rate for full websites such as cnet, tech republic and others, and when looking at background data on Android, at least from my perspective. I was online back in 1993 when the www started (before on Co$tly Compuserve) and with the limited technology we had at the time we could get access to more meaningful content faster than we can now, and with very, very limited bandwidth!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your looking at the past through rose colored glasses if you remember more meaningful content being available in 1993. In mid 1993, there were 130 webpages, total. End of 1993, around 1000. End of 1994, around 10000. And a lot of them were useless crap that students were putting up (I know, I was one of them).
Old faithful said:
Ok, ok, enough of the oldtimer rant Maybe you are right and I'm just an old fool. But I'd rather be considered an old fool for asking stupid questions than to accept it all without any question
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not about accepting it without question. It's mainly you haven't given much specifics, so the only general answer is, well, it's for convenience, so turn off your data if you're worried. The details you did give - email and weather - it's very clear why they would use background data.
---------- Post added at 12:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------
Regarding your other points:
Old faithful said:
Great to know! But you must admit that having to ask, or more precisely not being told where it is, is disturbing! Because what is more important than your data? WHY does it have to be so difficult to get to it? Why the secrecy? Don't users deserve to know where their files are and be able to select where to store them? Why am I not AUTOMATICALLY given the CHOICE as to its name and its location on my device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That you didn't know where it was doesn't mean it is hidden or a secret; guidelines are published and clear, and apps generally follow them. You're not given a choice in name and location for simplicity.
Old faithful said:
True, but why is such an essential function NOT part of the OS and what more, why does it require the user to VIOLATE his warranty (by rooting) to do so? Don't you see what's WRONG with this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Commonly claimed, but rooting does not void your warranty. Problems you cause by rooting will do not need to be honored by the warranty.
Old faithful said:
Again, I understand; but doing so often breaks the apps. WHY do we need these permissions IMPOSED upon us in the first place? Doesn't it strike you as WRONG that so many apps need to access your most private information?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No app imposes anything on you - apps require the permissions they do and they're spelled out before you install. Don't install apps that required permissions thou don't like.
Old faithful said:
And coming back to the Google Play Store: I've used my device for two months and had to wipe it clean TWICE already and EVERY TIME because the Play Store refused to work anymore! Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? Doesn't it hint at some homeland-security-esque infiltration deep into the OS from the part of Google?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like your phone is broken. Get a replacement under warranty.