Well Folks,
So I've been using this OS now for 2 full months and by full I mean I have spent most of my free time learning about it and as much as I find this OS exciting and I believe this is where computing is really at now, I thought I'd share some thoughts on its irritants and get your feedback and opinions about it, so that it could be improved upon in future iterations.
I would like to mention that I have been using computers since the days of punched cards back in the 70s and that I'm no stranger to writing programs, although I am not a computing or IT professional and have only dabbled working on a few programs and scripts only to the extent of doing what was necessary for my work.
That being said, here's some of what I think of this OS, its strengths and weaknesses, its bugs (some, most probably from Google, would insist they are features - more on this later) and its successes. I hope that by posting this others will add their comments, rants and raves as well.
To moderators, if this has already been discussed or of this should be moved to another forum or in any way wish to criticize it, feel free to do so.
***
As much as I was a Microsoft fan during the 90s, this OS sold me as the only one where freedom to innovate and a large community of enthusiasts seem to thrive, whereas Microsoft has become sclerotic and is now under control of corporate culture and thinking, in other words, it's lost its soul and is just running on inertia. I'll stop here so as not to insult the grays who have taken control of it and think it's the best thing since sliced bread.
The open source / free software (lets not get into semantics, please!) sure has fostered a lot of friendly development and sharing and this is definitely the way of the future, notwithstanding what corporate America believes. History has proven that small entities have always been the most productive in society, and it shows in real life and especially here: Although Google, who is the de-facto giant in control of the platform, officially frowns on user control and participation into the OS, it actually benefits from it and doesn't interfere too much with its evolution and as far as I can see, has actually embraced quite a few innovations that we've seen coming to life here and on other forums.
In other words, they don't like it when developers modify it, but are happy to benefit from it in the end, except perhaps those innovations that give more control to users that they wish users should have, but at least and contrarily to Apple and Microsoft, they are not persecuting those who innovate. God knows we already have way too much of that military-style control in our society where major corporations and their lawyers dictate pretty much what citizens can and cannot do.
As much as this OS is promising with its fundamental openness (at least at its roots) and is the least oppressive of them all, there is still a lot to do, or should I say, a lot of restrictions to lift and doors to open to make it a truly open and free platform for software development, and this goes straight back to Google and its overbearing influence on the development of this OS. But I guess we have had to sacrifice some freedom in order to get some support from this corporate giant; so here are some things that, over the past two months experience with the platform, I find severely lacking and in dire need of rethinking:
- Google's overbearing attitude and control over users, especially personified in the Play Store, where one cannot comment freely anymore and the use of which has been aggravating to no end and THE cause of crashes and dysfunction of the device: It only works some times and is so ingrained in the OS that when it misbehaves, you often have to no choice but to reinitialize the OS (aka the 'cold boot'), which, of course, causes havoc with your data and personal settings, which brings me to my next issue:
- The File System: Where is my stuff stored and why is it so difficult to find it and save it? You'd think it's a crime to save your own data! What gives? Why is it so difficult for apps or user settings to be saved in a location chosen by the user? Just try this: of all you apps, how many of them can you access the data from outside of the application and keep safe for the next time when your phone needs to be reinitialized?
- Connection to external devices: We all agree that connection is king and the key to efficient use of portable devices. Can someone explain to me then why does Android make is so difficult to access and transfer files between LOCAL DEVICES such as USB drives and computers and why it must hide some parts of itself and makes every effort to hide user data and keep it out of reach from its owner?
- The Cloud Fad: why is it that Google insists so much on taking over my Data? Why is it not telling me where it is stored and why is it hiding it from me? Knowing how Google manipulates and basically snoops in on everything you do (it's been proven), why would anyone in their right mind trust to have their stuff stored out of their reach when external hard drive so cheap it's almost free? Can someone explain what the advantage is to me, especially when wireless connections are precarious at best and data transport costs more and more? You find that 'convenient'?
- Background Data: Can someone tell me why my device needs to transport SO MUCH stuff in the background and why it needs to do so when it can operate quite happily otherwise when it notices that there isn't a data connection available? Doesn't Google realize that Wireless Data is horrendously expensive? Why can I not, as a user, control what data is sent back in the background in a granular way instead of having to shut it down at system level? Is Google afraid what users might find out about what information is sent to their servers without their explicit knowledge? Which brings me finally to
- Permissions: Why is it so difficult for users to control application permissions? Just like licenses, we only have the choice to 'take it or leave it', without any true knowledge what we sold the devil. Permissions are pernicious and should be under total control of the user. Those developers who need those permissions should explain them all and make it possible for users to deactivate them all so that users could see if the reduced functionality is worth it or not. LET USERS DECIDES WHAT GOES ON THEIR DEVICE!
***
So that's it for my Saturday afternoon rant. Like I said, these things have irritated me for a long time. If you have objections, comments or accolades and additions, here's the place to do so, unless of course the moderators decide otherwise: if this has been discussed somewhere else and I've bothered you with this post, by all means let me know.
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
User data is stored in the /data partition. Apps can be found in /data/app and app data is found in /data/data
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
You can control an apps permissions, again with an app that needs root access. Found on the Play Store.
Sent from my Slim E4GT using xda premium
Mattix724 said:
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that is the beauty of Android
Mattix724 said:
User data is stored in the /data partition. Apps can be found in /data/app and app data is found in /data/data
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Click to collapse
Great to know! But you must admit that having to ask, or more precisely not being told where it is, is disturbing! Because what is more important than your data? WHY does it have to be so difficult to get to it? Why the secrecy? Don't users deserve to know where their files are and be able to select where to store them? Why am I not AUTOMATICALLY given the CHOICE as to its name and its location on my device?
Mattix724 said:
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but why is such an essential function NOT part of the OS and what more, why does it require the user to VIOLATE his warranty (by rooting) to do so? Don't you see what's WRONG with this?
Mattix724 said:
You can control an apps permissions, again with an app that needs root access. Found on the Play Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I understand; but doing so often breaks the apps. WHY do we need these permissions IMPOSED upon us in the first place? Doesn't it strike you as WRONG that so many apps need to access your most private information?
And coming back to the Google Play Store: I've used my device for two months and had to wipe it clean TWICE already and EVERY TIME because the Play Store refused to work anymore! Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? Doesn't it hint at some homeland-security-esque infiltration deep into the OS from the part of Google?
***
In any case, I thank you for pointing out the practical solutions and workarounds and for getting the ball rolling, so to speak; but my point was more philosophical: WHY should we have to essentially "fight system" with these workarounds to do such straightforward things as as saving documents in a place of the user's choosing, being able to transfer files directly to his PC and being able to keep user privacy?
doesn't that bother anyone?
Shouldn't Android become more open and accessible as a platform that truly empowers its users and leave Apple and Microsoft to cater to those who couldn't be bothered?
Looking forward to your answers!
I sware people will complain nomatter what
Sent by Hellybelly 4.2.2
Disabling Background Data Completely?
Mattix724 said:
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
Sent from my Slim E4GT using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, so I have looked very extensively, spending hours searching for a way to disable background data and although they are many ways to do so when on cellular data, short of shutting off WiFi altogether, I have not found any discussion, much less a way to do so completely when on WiFi.
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
So the question remains: short of shutting off data altogether, how can I disable background data completely?
Wouldn't it be possible to either fake a connection so as to fool the system into thinking there is a connection for its hidden background processes, or to wake a connection up on demand when initiating querries and put it to sleep immediately after the answer has arrived?
Old faithful said:
OK, so I have looked very extensively, spending hours searching for a way to disable background data and although they are many ways to do so when on cellular data, short of shutting off WiFi altogether, I have not found any discussion, much less a way to do so completely when on WiFi.
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
So the question remains: short of shutting off data altogether, how can I disable background data completely?
Wouldn't it be possible to either fake a connection so as to fool the system into thinking there is a connection for its hidden background processes, or to wake a connection up on demand when initiating querries and put it to sleep immediately after the answer has arrived?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A simple data firewall program will take care of that. It will allow you to control what and when things get a data connection.
zelendel said:
A simple data firewall program will take care of that. It will allow you to control what and when things get a data connection.
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Click to collapse
Hmmm... I'm using Avast and its firewall doesn't have the option to turn off background data on Wi-Fi, it's either turn off Wi-Fi or not, no option to just turn off background data and leave access to foreground data. I've tried a few other apps that don't have this option either; it's all or nothing.
Do you know of any apps that have that granular choice? Could you suggest a few?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2
Old faithful said:
...
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what sort of background data do you want to disable? regarding weather, email, and news, turn off auto sync (disable it all, or by program).
edscholl said:
what sort of background data do you want to disable? regarding weather, email, and news, turn off auto sync (disable it all, or by program).
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Click to collapse
Precisely ... WHAT sort of background data needs to go on anyway?
Fetching the weather info takes up a few tens of KB. What then does it need to transfer megabytes in the background for then? My wife's weather widget in particular has used over 200 MB over the past month in background data whereas it has only needed a couple of megs to update itself! Doesn't that seem exaggerated?
My point is, what is background data needed for when these apps work perfectly well on demand with a tiny fraction of the bandwidth? Why is there no disclosure what exactly it is used for, if shutting data off when not in use has absolutely no detrimental effect on the function of the app, in other words, what's really going on?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2
Count your blessings!
I agree with you to some extent. Of course, you can do anything with root access, but why isn't this right here in front of me out of the box. With my Galaxy S III, managing the file system is a pain, and considering my USB Sync cable doesn't work long enough to make file transfers of 100MB+, this is a real problem. I don't want everything in the cloud, I want it here. I don't have internet (fast data speeds, at the least) everywhere. I would hope that Android advances with these features. I also wish there was a way, out of the box with skinned (by carrier or manufacturer) devices that you could disable all skins and themes and use the glorious Stock Android.
Seriously though, count your blessings, at least you're not using iOS!
Old faithful said:
Precisely ... WHAT sort of background data needs to go on anyway?
Fetching the weather info takes up a few tens of KB. What then does it need to transfer megabytes in the background for then? My wife's weather widget in particular has used over 200 MB over the past month in background data whereas it has only needed a couple of megs to update itself! Doesn't that seem exaggerated?
My point is, what is background data needed for when these apps work perfectly well on demand with a tiny fraction of the bandwidth? Why is there no disclosure what exactly it is used for, if shutting data off when not in use has absolutely no detrimental effect on the function of the app, in other words, what's really going on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So shut sync off if you prefer. I like my apps up to date when I wake my phone, but nobody is going to force you to keep sync on. This is such a non-issue.
As for weather, I guess it depends what app she's using. Looks like my weather widget used less than 1mb of data in the last month...
Background Data Implications
edscholl said:
So shut sync off if you prefer. I like my apps up to date when I wake my phone, but nobody is going to force you to keep sync on. This is such a non-issue.
As for weather, I guess it depends what app she's using. Looks like my weather widget used less than 1mb of data in the last month...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On my device, with sync off, background data off, I still get 119 KB foreground, 2.33 MB in the background for the past week, on WiFi, whcih I already turn off most of the time, because it's the only way I have found so far to stop the data leak.
I understand this may be a non issue for folks who have gigabytes of bandwidth a month and don't pay $50 per megabyte off contract like we do or $10 for 100MB, but my concern is deeper than that: what's happening in the background? Why do YOU implicitly trust what's happening in the background without full disclosure?
Also, regarding the voracity of Android for data, when I was on windows mobile with push email on a four hour basis, I used to use no more than a few MB per month, and that was with cellular data on at all times and I'd hardly use more than 50MB per month browsing on wap sites which did a great job of cutting out the non-content garbage that is so prevalent on regular 'full' sites these days.
I understand this may seem like a non-issue to those for whom data is plentiful and cheap, and that most of you implicitly trust what apps do with your data in the background, but to find this being dismissed is deeply worrisome to me: why SHOULD we trust Google and others corporations with our personal information, without even as much as a look at what's being transferred and for what reason? Doesn't that disturb anyone at all???
In any case, thank you for answering and keeping the debate open, so to speak.
To turn off background data go to settings, select Data Usage, press menu button and the check the restrict background data check box.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
You can go even further and customize each apps background data usage from the same screen.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Sorry, just saw where you were talking about background data via WiFi....:banghead:
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Old faithful said:
On my device, with sync off, background data off, I still get 119 KB foreground, 2.33 MB in the background for the past week, on WiFi, whcih I already turn off most of the time, because it's the only way I have found so far to stop the data leak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what apps are using data? Why don't you turn off background data if you care? Heck, turn off WiFi and mobile networks when thou don't want to sync if you're worried about leakage.
Old faithful said:
I understand this may be a non issue for folks who have gigabytes of bandwidth a month and don't pay $50 per megabyte off contract like we do or $10 for 100MB, but my concern is deeper than that: what's happening in the background? Why do YOU implicitly trust what's happening in the background without full disclosure?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You implicitly trust apps with some data access when you install it, with the specific access given to you. If you think otherwise, your fooling yourself. I'm not sure why foreground vs background data makes much difference to you once you've trusted the app with data access anyway- it's not like it tells you how much data it's going to use per network transaction if you manually tell it to update...
Old faithful said:
Also, regarding the voracity of Android for data, when I was on windows mobile with push email on a four hour basis, I used to use no more than a few MB per month, and that was with cellular data on at all times and I'd hardly use more than 50MB per month browsing on wap sites which did a great job of cutting out the non-content garbage that is so prevalent on regular 'full' sites these days.
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Click to collapse
50mb a month... I'm not sure I'd bother with a smartphone if I used data so little.
Old faithful said:
I understand this may seem like a non-issue to those for whom data is plentiful and cheap, and that most of you implicitly trust what apps do with your data in the background, but to find this being dismissed is deeply worrisome to me: why SHOULD we trust Google and others corporations with our personal information, without even as much as a look at what's being transferred and for what reason? Doesn't that disturb anyone at all???
In any case, thank you for answering and keeping the debate open, so to speak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We trust them because it makes our lives simpler, and quite frankly, most of us really aren't doing anything all that interesting with our data and Google and others really aren't interested in your personal info (not to be mistaken for an assertion that they're not interested in serving up ads relevant to you). But there's certainly a tradeoff. If you're not comfortable with it, turn it all off, or don't use a smartphone - nobody will hold it against thou.
Konvey said:
I agree with you to some extent. Of course, you can do anything with root access
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you can direct me to an app that allows me to COMPLETELY shut off background data for all apps including the OS, for any type of connection, incuding WiFi, I wouldn't be so concerned, but I have looked for the past two months now and found nothing so far that does that, even the acclaimed Droidwall can't turn background data off, even when everything is turned off, meaning, NO data access whatsoever: the bloody "OS Services" still happily does its thing in the backrground, and there is no way to find out what it does (I tried tPacketCapture - I only get 24 byte long files that I can't read anything out of)
Since it would seem that the problem is deep within the operating system, it would seem that the only way to completely shut off background data would be to give a local host redirect for every BACKGROUND process, such as what is possible in Windows using a 127.0.0.1 riderect. Since I'm a newbie when it comes to Android I don't know how to do it, but surely there must be a way, or a way to connect to WiFi only on demand?
Konvey said:
but why isn't this right here in front of me out of the box. With my Galaxy S III, managing the file system is a pain, and considering my USB Sync cable doesn't work long enough to make file transfers of 100MB+, this is a real problem. I don't want everything in the cloud, I want it here. I don't have internet (fast data speeds, at the least) everywhere. I would hope that Android advances with these features. I also wish there was a way, out of the box with skinned (by carrier or manufacturer) devices that you could disable all skins and themes and use the glorious Stock Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I am still looking for a file explorer with the functionality of my old Norton File Manager (remember that one?). I can't understand why the so-called 'expert' ones such as Root Explorer don't have accessible sorting features (why hide it in settings? Isn't that a basic, essential feature of any file management system to be able to sort based on these common criteria?).
Furthermore, I'd love nothing more than being able to swipe left from the home screen directly into the file system for direct access to shortcuts, packages and data, and to be able to specify where the OS shoudl store MY data (instead of keeping it hidden as is most often the case).
Konvey said:
Seriously though, count your blessings, at least you're not using iOS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more, I'll never have an Apple product in my house, no need to say more, we all know about Apple's control of its users and tyrannical ways. George Orwell had it mostly right, but where he failed is where Big Brother would come from: Not the government. Or perhaps we should say that Major Corporations, through the power of their lobbies, have indeed become the de-facto Government .
Thanks again for your answer, Ed.
edscholl said:
So what apps are using data? Why don't you turn off background data if you care? Heck, turn off WiFi and mobile networks when thou don't want to sync if you're worried about leakage.
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Click to collapse
Shutting WiFi off after use is what I've been doing of late, but it's an uphill battle. The minute I turn WiFi back on, the OS, like a ravenous dog, immediately gets into background data mode, trumping the foreground querries by volume. But it's a start
edscholl said:
You implicitly trust apps with some data access when you install it, with the specific access given to you. If you think otherwise, your fooling yourself. I'm not sure why foreground vs background data makes much difference to you once you've trusted the app with data access anyway- it's not like it tells you how much data it's going to use per network transaction if you manually tell it to update...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but to see the data exchange so lopsided (most of it being background) is what makes me wonder what it really does. Perhaps it can be trusted but what bothers me is these apps don't tell you what they really do 'for you' in background mode and why they need so much bandwidth... I mean, how much data is required to transmit temperatures, weather conditions and the such? Heck any update would surely fit in a sub KB transmission even for 3 or 4 cities like I have in my setup...
edscholl said:
50mb a month... I'm not sure I'd bother with a smartphone if I used data so little.
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Click to collapse
To each his own, Ed. When data costs $10 for 100MB and the most you can get is 1GB for $60 (or as low as $30 on promo), you quickly come to your senses. That's, of course, another issue altogether.
Fact is, apart from media such as youtube and other streaming sites, text based information (or information update using apps that are supposed to have built in presentation such as snow fluries for "snow") should require very little data, typically 1KB per full size page. You have to admit that something is wrong with this picture that when I read a 500 word article it requires the same amount of bandwidth as the contents of a whole book!
edscholl said:
We trust them because it makes our lives simpler, and quite frankly, most of us really aren't doing anything all that interesting with our data and Google and others really aren't interested in your personal info (not to be mistaken for an assertion that they're not interested in serving up ads relevant to you). But there's certainly a tradeoff. If you're not comfortable with it, turn it all off, or don't use a smartphone - nobody will hold it against thou.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do make our lives simpler and there is a trade-off, agreed. The point I make is where the line should be crossed. Are we willing to get shoved with 99% non content garbage in order to access the remaining 1% meaningful content? Because that is certainly the going rate for full websites such as cnet, tech republic and others, and when looking at background data on Android, at least from my perspective. I was online back in 1993 when the www started (before on Co$tly Compuserve) and with the limited technology we had at the time we could get access to more meaningful content faster than we can now, and with very, very limited bandwidth!
Ok, ok, enough of the oldtimer rant Maybe you are right and I'm just an old fool. But I'd rather be considered an old fool for asking stupid questions than to accept it all without any question
Old faithful said:
Yes, but to see the data exchange so lopsided (most of it being background) is what makes me wonder what it really does. Perhaps it can be trusted but what bothers me is these apps don't tell you what they really do 'for you' in background mode and why they need so much bandwidth... I mean, how much data is required to transmit temperatures, weather conditions and the such? Heck any update would surely fit in a sub KB transmission even for 3 or 4 cities like I have in my setup...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and as I said, my weather widget uses (beautiful widgets) like 1mb a month. On my phone, the HTC sense widget uses like 5mb.
So if your weather app - again, what apps, specifically, are you having issues with? - is using hundreds of MBS, maybe it's doing a lot more (like live radar or videos), or maybe it's just crap and you should uninstall it.
Old faithful said:
Fact is, apart from media such as youtube and other streaming sites, text based information (or information update using apps that are supposed to have built in presentation such as snow fluries for "snow") should require very little data, typically 1KB per full size page. You have to admit that something is wrong with this picture that when I read a 500 word article it requires the same amount of bandwidth as the contents of a whole book!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are tilting at windmills. The average page size is pushing 1.5mb, and was more than 1k back in the Netscape beta days (15k average ~1995).
It's not uncommon for a http HEADER to be bigger than 1k.
Old faithful said:
They do make our lives simpler and there is a trade-off, agreed. The point I make is where the line should be crossed. Are we willing to get shoved with 99% non content garbage in order to access the remaining 1% meaningful content? Because that is certainly the going rate for full websites such as cnet, tech republic and others, and when looking at background data on Android, at least from my perspective. I was online back in 1993 when the www started (before on Co$tly Compuserve) and with the limited technology we had at the time we could get access to more meaningful content faster than we can now, and with very, very limited bandwidth!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your looking at the past through rose colored glasses if you remember more meaningful content being available in 1993. In mid 1993, there were 130 webpages, total. End of 1993, around 1000. End of 1994, around 10000. And a lot of them were useless crap that students were putting up (I know, I was one of them).
Old faithful said:
Ok, ok, enough of the oldtimer rant Maybe you are right and I'm just an old fool. But I'd rather be considered an old fool for asking stupid questions than to accept it all without any question
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not about accepting it without question. It's mainly you haven't given much specifics, so the only general answer is, well, it's for convenience, so turn off your data if you're worried. The details you did give - email and weather - it's very clear why they would use background data.
---------- Post added at 12:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------
Regarding your other points:
Old faithful said:
Great to know! But you must admit that having to ask, or more precisely not being told where it is, is disturbing! Because what is more important than your data? WHY does it have to be so difficult to get to it? Why the secrecy? Don't users deserve to know where their files are and be able to select where to store them? Why am I not AUTOMATICALLY given the CHOICE as to its name and its location on my device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That you didn't know where it was doesn't mean it is hidden or a secret; guidelines are published and clear, and apps generally follow them. You're not given a choice in name and location for simplicity.
Old faithful said:
True, but why is such an essential function NOT part of the OS and what more, why does it require the user to VIOLATE his warranty (by rooting) to do so? Don't you see what's WRONG with this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Commonly claimed, but rooting does not void your warranty. Problems you cause by rooting will do not need to be honored by the warranty.
Old faithful said:
Again, I understand; but doing so often breaks the apps. WHY do we need these permissions IMPOSED upon us in the first place? Doesn't it strike you as WRONG that so many apps need to access your most private information?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No app imposes anything on you - apps require the permissions they do and they're spelled out before you install. Don't install apps that required permissions thou don't like.
Old faithful said:
And coming back to the Google Play Store: I've used my device for two months and had to wipe it clean TWICE already and EVERY TIME because the Play Store refused to work anymore! Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? Doesn't it hint at some homeland-security-esque infiltration deep into the OS from the part of Google?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like your phone is broken. Get a replacement under warranty.
Related
Last night browsing the market, after having my phone reset for constant rebooting, I downloaded an app called "adult videos." I woke this morning to find the app wiped from my phone and from the market. Now, the problem lies not in the fact that this app is missing from my life, but in the question is google sneaking around in the middle of the night tampering with people's phones? I read that article about google remotely removing apps from phones strictly on a necessity based need. It kind of makes me wonder how selective they will be when determining what is necessary.
Google has the ability to do this and have flexed their muscles with that feature too recently,cant post links but google: "google remove android application". It uses google talk to send these removal requests. In normal conditions google will only delete apps that were malicious. (spyware/damaging/ddos/fraud/etc)
Most smartphone/ebook platforms have remote kill switches now. The more worrying part is that they also have the ability to install apps onto remote phones.
Google does this with android too? This is one of the reasons I dont like apple. This sounds like rediculous invasion of privacy. How does this work exactly?
Read the link.. disturbing both the install assett and the remove asset options. Plus the fact that Android maintains a constant data connection. Is there anyway to kill this constant connection? do you get charged for it? and can you disable the install and remove assett options?
It's Google, they live and survive off your information!
They went round WiFi snooping when they did Streetview, so God knows what they do with your mobile phone...
hungry81 said:
Google does this with android too? This is one of the reasons I dont like apple. This sounds like rediculous invasion of privacy. How does this work exactly?
Read the link.. disturbing both the install assett and the remove asset options. Plus the fact that Android maintains a constant data connection. Is there anyway to kill this constant connection? do you get charged for it? and can you disable the install and remove assett options?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This connection is maintained by using google talk. So as long as you are online on google talk you have a hotline to the kill switch. After these security concerns I bet some chefs are working on ROM with the kill switch disabled. But nearly all smartphones have kill switches nowadays, companies like Google, Apple and Microsoft don't want to be seen as unable to get rid of a malicious app which would impact on their reputation.
Edit: Thinking about it, if you have extreme worries about this, install some kind of firewall (like iptables (requires rooting)) and block mtalk.google.com.
The best part about these google phones is the ability to make them your own. I am currently waiting for cyanogen's mod 6 which I am pretty sure won't constantly chat with google, but I think that the fact should be recognized of who the major players are in the cell phone game. Remember that 'incident' google had with china, and how the NSA and google became friends after that. Hmm... The largest data analyzer teaming up with the largest data collector, google also reports higher sales every quarter now as well, that is alot of direct connections with alot of people. I'm not sayin' anything...I'm just sayin'.
El_Zilcho said:
Edit: Thinking about it, if you have extreme worries about this, install some kind of firewall (like iptables (requires rooting)) and block mtalk.google.com.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ummm..... no.
r3s-rt said:
Ummm..... no.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm why not? Its a Linux system below the dalvik vm. There are people who got iptables running on their system and when done correctly iptables. Be aware when I talk about this, I am talking tin foil hat style here.
What if someone modifies AOSP code to just remove the INSTALL_ASSET and REMOVE_ASSET portions of the code?
Google, don't go Apple way!
http://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/android-also-gives-google-remote-app-installation-power-062510
Old news, but they've made me "a little bit" angry Is there any way to remove all that crapware?
hmmmmm well figuring they just got in trouble for stealing multiple GB of data from private routers I'd say its a sure bet. Also I recently took a federal job and low and behold they already had my gmail account on file even though I have never given it out and only use it for family and friends, but the feds sure had it.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/28/new-licensing-service-replacing-existing-copy-protection-metho/
Looks like pretty soon the days of people copy and pasting apk's all over the place are coming to an end.
I hope this doesn't make theming harder.. We'll see.
From reading that article,
Seems like airplane mode or a firewall would crush all the hopes and dreams of google and app devs.
It seems that every time we open an app it needs to verify that it's been paid for by contacting a "licensing" server and retrieving a response.
I feel like that could slow down launch times, and being unable to use an app when offline would be like UBISOFT hell all over again.
I really hope google puts a lot of thought into this..
I wonder if this if already being done? Every time I try to play that golf game on my EVO on an airplane while the radios are off I get a FC when it starts. As soon as I an on the ground and turn the radios on the game works fine.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
what if you are in an area with no signal or on a plane or something? you cant open any apps???
This is already in place in a number of apps, one is IP Cam Viewer.
I paid the money for it. I transferred all my files to my wife's Evo 4G, and thought "hell I'll see if it works..." Well it didn't. When I try to open the app, it tells me that I have to purchase it from the marketplace.
I'm all for buying apps when they're good, and I understand single user licensing. Guess I was just hoping I wouldn't have to spend double the money for all the apps I use.
simplyphp said:
This is already in place in a number of apps, one is IP Cam Viewer.
I paid the money for it. I transferred all my files to my wife's Evo 4G, and thought "hell I'll see if it works..." Well it didn't. When I try to open the app, it tells me that I have to purchase it from the marketplace.
I'm all for buying apps when they're good, and I understand single user licensing. Guess I was just hoping I wouldn't have to spend double the money for all the apps I use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've heard of couples sharing the same email as apps get replicated on the two phone
I can confirm that they don't get replicated..
I have two evo's right now under the same email and they're definitely not replicating crap.
cahiatt said:
I wonder if this if already being done? Every time I try to play that golf game on my EVO on an airplane while the radios are off I get a FC when it starts. As soon as I an on the ground and turn the radios on the game works fine.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that's a problem I understand about paying for apps but not working when I'm in a place with no signal. I see a law suit brewing up. I paid for the app I should be able to use the app whenever I want to. Class action law suit coming real soon.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Crap....
"A limitation of copy protection is that applications using it can be installed only on compatible devices that provide a secure internal storage environment. For example, a copy-protected application cannot be downloaded from Market to a device that provides root access"
...Seriously???
EDIT - the above quote was misrepresented in the place I copied from...research shows it to be misleading. the actual bit of Google's text is posted over on page to of this thread. disregard my indignation in this post...
This is discouraging, because a lot of people like to try the full before they buy it expecting more than what full has to offer, only to be disappointed later.
willwgp said:
This is discouraging, because a lot of people like to try the full before they buy it expecting more than what full has to offer, only to be disappointed later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do get a 24 hour refund option when you buy from the market so I'm not worried about trying before you buy. I do worry about not being able to play something when I'm in the bathroom at work because I don't get a signal there.
well how many ppl do actually piracy apps??? oh my bad forgot that this is Android, for a second i though it was apple!!
Just to clarify a couple of things:
There are 2 ways to use the Licensing - one is Strict - you CAN NOT USE THE APP WITHOUT ACCESS TO MARKETPLACE. Personally, screw that.
Option 2, however, is a non-strict policy. Server managed, where the license is 'cached' to storage. You also can programmatically set how long your app can be used without any license check.
That'd be the way i go
josue85 said:
You do get a 24 hour refund option when you buy from the market so I'm not worried about trying before you buy. I do worry about not being able to play something when I'm in the bathroom at work because I don't get a signal there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That'll be up to the developer. I like this approach, as I'd be happy to do say... a 5-7 day turn around on the license check. After 7 days with no data signal, seriously, where the hell are you? LOL
Besides, if you've used a paid app for 7 days, and by that time can't decide if you need it or not - wow.
And of course, as soon as you got signal again, the license check would go through and you can use the app again, no problem.
I'm sure there will be UbiSoft and EA style implementations though - way too damn draconian for my tastes. I don't care to know every single second that someone's using my app. I would just like to know that they haven't 'copied that floppy' as it were LOL
I have no doubts this will be defeated in time, though. All it would really take is mimicking the server license response, which can be extracted from the locally cached license of an actual paid product.
People that pirate software are going to do it, regardless. Don't make the honest people pay the price of draconian DRM.
The best approach I can make as a developer, is give my customers the features they want, in a stable, good performing package, and discourage 'casual' piracy. Beyond that, it's out of the developer's control, and honestly, any more than that usually just pisses off the customer and annoys the pirates for about a day and a half.
Ok...had to read the SDK paperwork as I really wanted to know this...my previous post was incorrect and here is the update...
From Google:
Android Market Licensing is a flexible, secure mechanism for controlling access to your applications. It effectively replaces the copy-protection mechanism offered on Android Market and gives you wider distribution potential for your applications.
A limitation of the legacy copy-protection mechanism on Android Market is that applications using it can be installed only on compatible devices that provide a secure internal storage environment. For example, an application using the copy-protection mechanism cannot be downloaded from Market to a device that provides root access, and the application cannot be installed to a device's SD card.
With Android Market licensing, you can move to a license-based model in which access is not bound to the characteristics of the host device, but to your publisher account on Android Market and the licensing policy that you define. Your application can be installed and controlled on any compatible device on any storage, including SD card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also...there are options for the Devs to allow for apps to be used a chosen number of times before they need to check in for licenses. Strict has to check in every time....other option allows dev to choose based on times used or time since last check in.
SO...all in all I am much less worried about this now.
topdnbass said:
I can confirm that they don't get replicated..
I have two evo's right now under the same email and they're definitely not replicating crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With licensing the dev can choose whether an app can be accessed from different phones. It is an option...
(greeked...multiple times)
Question: Does that mean we won't be able to open, modify, and resign apks? Like...to change the appearance (make a widget clear, etc).
More like bad news for paying consumers. That's who always pays for everything. Those of us who actually buy the products.
I plan on speaking with my wallet. I wont buy any app that requires I have an internet connection.
A limitation of the legacy copy-protection mechanism on Android Market is that applications using it can be installed only on compatible devices that provide a secure internal storage environment. For example, an application using the copy-protection mechanism cannot be downloaded from Market to a device that provides root access, and the application cannot be installed to a device's SD card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait so according to google us rooted folk couldn't download copy-protected apps before now?
Urrr, i think im missing something
This is actually a nice implementation for both the software developer and the user. Most will implement this where it only has to check-in every week or two. So the odds of getting caught in a spot where there is no connection is low.
At the end of the day, it is a pretty straightforward way to handle copy protection that really shouldn't inconvenience anyone.
Also it will bring more developers to the platform if they know they don't have to worry as much about piracy.
Piracy will still run rampant. People will find ways to circumvent this, that's just how it is. At least it will curb some piracy since copying and pasting an apk file wasn't much of a deterrent.
Worrying article on how apps are using personal information.
www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/30/suspicious_android_apps/
I'm sick that they had to go too such lengths to find out. We need a better net architecture to enable a proper firewall to work.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Also, app naming FAIL!
Well, since they only tested 30 apps and won't release the names of the ones they tested, only saying that they are "the most popular", personally I don't buy it.
And the information these apps are sending out is primarily geolocation. Well, no ****. If an app wants your location and you don't think it should have it, it's either using it for ads or you should decline to install the app and just send an email to the dev asking him why he needs that information.
tjhart85 said:
Well, since they only tested 30 apps and won't release the names of the ones they tested, only saying that they are "the most popular", personally I don't buy it.
And the information these apps are sending out is primarily geolocation. Well, no ****. If an app wants your location and you don't think it should have it, it's either using it for ads or you should decline to install the app and just send an email to the dev asking him why he needs that information.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed... geolocation is pretty obviously straight forward. I don't know about the 'transmissing every 30 seconds' thing though.
Any thoughts ont he transmitting sim card and IMEI info?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnLujX1Dw4Y
Also discussed here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=795702
With explanation where to get it from http://www.appanalysis.org/
A very well-written reply by "Steven Knox" on The Register, demonstrating how this 'research' is simply a pile of intentionally-misleading statistical rubbish:
By selecting only from applications that access both personal data and the internet, they're overstating the significance of their study by about 3x. Furthermore, their summaries blur this distinction unnecessarily.
Specifically, their FAQ says "We studied just over 8% of the top 50 popular free applications in each category that had access to privacy sensitive information in order to get a sense of the behaviors of these applications." Since there were 22 categories at the time they did the study, that would imply (22*50=1,100 * 8% =) 88 applications. However, they actually only tested 30, because of the 1,100 top 50 applications only (from the PDF) "roughly a third of the applications (358 of the 1,100 applications) require Internet permissions along with permissions to access
either location, camera, or audio data." -- meaning that the other 742 apps don't have the necessary permissions to play badly. The clause "..that had access to privacy sensitive information in order to get a sense of the behaviors of these applications." from the FAQ is grammatically ambiguous in this case (it may refer to "applications" or "category"), and not specific enough to indicate that over 2/3 of the applications are (relatively) safe by dint of not having the necessary permissions.
They also didn't include in their study apps from 10 of the 22 categories, but they don't explain whether that was due to a) there not being any or enough applications in those categories that required internet and personal data permissions, b) a conscious choice to focus on the other 12 categories, or c) the results of random selection (with an explanation of why they did not use a stratified sample).
Once you factor back in the applications they ignored, the numbers don't look quite so bad. Assuming their sample was representative, 2/3 of the 358, or about 239 applications of the top 1,100 of the time use personal data suspiciously. That's about 21.7% or just over 1 in 5 -- still significant, but a far cry from 2 out of 3. In fact, the worst case maximum is actually 358 of 1,100 or just under 1 in 3 (32.45%) because they are as mentioned above the only ones that actually acquire the permissions necessary to do anything "suspicious".
I understand why both the researchers and the reporter used the 2/3 figure -- you all believe you have to sell the point as hard as possible*. But the real story is that it's likely that at least 1 in 5 Android Apps use private data "suspiciously" -- and that number is still high enough to cause concern and to justify the further use of tools like TaintDroid. It's a pity you didn't trust the facts enough to avoid the unnecessary sensationalism.
*I am assuming, here, that Mr. Goodin did actually read and digest the paper as I did, rather than simply picking out the figures from the study, the FAQ, or a press release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good spot. But one in ten woolf be too many. The point is we should have more fine grained control and transparency off what apps do over the net, and we can't, by design.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
We need to develop a shim that reports modified IMEI/SIM data for different apps. IMO, very few apps need that information. We may not be able to keep all those apps from sending our private information, but we can make that information useless if it appears that we all are using the same IMEI/SIM...
patp said:
...The point is we should have more fine grained control and transparency off what apps do over the net...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed....
if you are rooted. With Root Explorer go to /data/system/ and open accounts.db you might be surprised what you find in it... Some people it will be fine for but mine it shows my exchange email and password in plain text and a few others show up as plain text has well...Its not geo they are worried about (for the most part) and...this file has been known about for awhile
Don't worry though unless your downloaded android specific virus holding apps you wont have any problem. And if your getting all your apps legally through the market then its no big deal =) and if your pirating them...well I don't feel bad for you...
echoside said:
if you are rooted. With Root Explorer go to /data/system/ and open accounts.db you might be surprised what you find in it... Some people it will be fine for but mine it shows my exchange email and password in plain text and a few others show up as plain text has well...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opened it, my accounts are there, but no passwords....
rori~ said:
Opened it, my accounts are there, but no passwords....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my gmail is somesort of encrypted but doesnt look that great.
Exchange shows up
facebook doesnt show anything at all aha
Thats why I said some might not have anything. Awhile back when I first heard about it one of my friends had two or three right there in plain English I didn't have a phone at the time to check...
Its been reported before but kind of just brushed over no biggy. To go real conspiracy theorist....I think apple is submitting all these articles...
ButtonBoy said:
We need to develop a shim that reports modified IMEI/SIM data for different apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great idea
The source code/instructions for TaintDroid are now out:
http://appanalysis.org/download.html
Anybody found a (recent) kernel with built-in TaintDroid-support?
I've put off getting a smartphone as long as possible, but did enough research that I think the Triumph on Virgin's $35 plan with Google voice is a smart way to go. I still have some questions about this new OS, programs, and environment, and really like the smart people on this forum, and hope you won't mind a few questions.
-What’s the best VOIP app for working with Google Voice? I've come across GrooVe IP, but would like reassurance whether it's the best option. I'd like to make calls over wifi, but I'd also like to know whether Virgin Mobile's 3g coverage is fast enough for voip (generally...). I wouldn't want to do this routinely as I'd be afraid they'd throttle me. But I would like someone who knows to share their opinion.
-How do I find out my wifi signal strength? 3G strength? GPS strength? Or even just where I can learn what the icons on the top bar stand for, and what their range is? There must be a good app for this, and I'd love a recommendation.
-If I wanted the option, how (specifically) would I switch from making a voip/data plan outgoing call to the regular phone cell plan? Would Android be smart enough to do this automatically without a wifi signal? Or would I need to change a setting in Google Voice? Any thoughts most appreciated.
-How do I find what apps are running (in background?)? Percentage of system resources, and how to kill them? I’m guessing there are apps for that. Does Android kill a process when you return to home screen? What are some of the general rules?
-I have a mac. I’m guessing most of the programs that let you manage files, root the phone, install Cyanogen mods, etc, are PC based. I found Android File Transfer, but am not clear on it's limits. Are there better options? What will the AFT program be good for? [Emulating PC’s is a pain I would rather avoid, but I have been thinking of running virtual box to donate some processing time to the Large Hadron Collider, so I might be able to run some of these PC programs]. Any advice most welcome.
-Any skins or options to turn the google apps into light text on dark background? (I'm aware of and have used the option in Gmail). I hate black text on white background. I'm kooky that way.
This Android phone is good looking, the plan costs much less than a thousand a year (which I refuse to pay), and I LOVE the Google voice options to turn your text and calls into computer files which you can archive as you wish. The Google voice activation / text / search is far superior to iAnything, voip/wifi is the balls, and I think a lot people who've been holding off from getting a smartphone will jump on this combo, and this thread may help them. Many thanks...
dcnblues said:
-How do I find out my wifi signal strength? 3G strength? GPS strength? Or even just where I can learn what the icons on the top bar stand for, and what their range is? There must be a good app for this, and I'd love a recommendation.
-How do I find what apps are running (in background?)? Percentage of system resources, and how to kill them? I’m guessing there are apps for that. Does Android kill a process when you return to home screen? What are some of the general rules?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With respect to these questions, I'm not an expert, but I'll provide a list of programs I use.
For WiFi signal strength, I'd recommend Wifi Analyzer from the Market. For 3G strength, I'd recommend Cellumap. For GPS Strength, GPS Status + Toolbox or GPS Test.
The manual for the phone can be found on either the VMUSA or Motorola web site. It will explain some of the icons. Although when using the phone, I often see stuff not explained in the manual.
For examining the phone's processes, I recommend SystemPanel from the Market (paid for version has history), and/or Android Status.
There are people that tell you NOT to kill anything on the Android OS manually. I use 1Tap Cleaner and Advanced Task Killer from the market if I see the phone behaving a bit sluggish. Android OS loads stuff in memory readying it for future use. How it does so (intelligently) I don't know. I see stuff being partially loaded I never use. I have never had a problem using either program.
YMMV
GrooveIP works great over 3g...I dunno how much we will be able to use it once they start capping data..bastards
dcnblues said:
-What’s the best VOIP app for working with Google Voice? I've come across GrooVe IP, but would like reassurance whether it's the best option. I'd like to make calls over wifi, but I'd also like to know whether Virgin Mobile's 3g coverage is fast enough for voip (generally...). I wouldn't want to do this routinely as I'd be afraid they'd throttle me. But I would like someone who knows to share their opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GrooVe IP is actually the only thing i've bothered to use because it worked well enough, I havn't put it to test over 3g... In the future, you can root the phone and update it to sprint PRL (Their towers instead of VMU) - People have reported up to like 6-900kbps doing this... I would suggest to not factor this last suggestion in yet as you won't be extremely comfortable with your first smart phone being messed with (But a possibility nonetheless)
dcnblues said:
-How do I find out my wifi signal strength? 3G strength? GPS strength? Or even just where I can learn what the icons on the top bar stand for, and what their range is? There must be a good app for this, and I'd love a recommendation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i will back the suggestion of wifi analyzer, it will map out locations of wifi/cellular tower, it gave me beef on another phone that ran @ 600mhz but this one is 1000mhz.
dcnblues said:
-If I wanted the option, how (specifically) would I switch from making a voip/data plan outgoing call to the regular phone cell plan? Would Android be smart enough to do this automatically without a wifi signal? Or would I need to change a setting in Google Voice? Any thoughts most appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With grooveip and google voice it will ask you on all outbound calls after you press dial: Would you like to make this call with.... A) non-Google Voice B) Google Voice (same story w/ sending an sms except it will ask when you create the sms because google voice has it's own sms application, keep in mind w/ gvoice you can forward calls to your google chat account (and that's what makes grooveip ring instead of forwarding the call to your cellular number[i think])
dcnblues said:
-How do I find what apps are running (in background?)? Percentage of system resources, and how to kill them? I’m guessing there are apps for that. Does Android kill a process when you return to home screen? What are some of the general rules?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are tons of application managers and task killers, I recommend to ignore all of them.... Someone brought a Samsung Prevail(Boost mobile Galaxy) into work the other day(Radioshack) - Anytime they killed tasks their touchscreen went out till reboot.... Android is supposed to self manage tasks and processes... realistically you just have to make sure not to leave your bluetooth wifi and gps on all the time... Also taking the screen brightness down a fuzz from max will help batt life tremendously... Android will suspend a process and kill an activity when you return to homescreen.... What I mean by that is that if you're in the browser and you hit home then you go back to the browser, you're on the same page still... but likely not to have any of your text still there if you were in an input field.... (This is probably an inaccurate example due to programmers being able to add a save activity state [this is something that when you for example hit back or hold the home button down to switch applications will store your current information, so when you're editing the text field it will save that data, THEN kill the activity/suspend it so that when you return it is still there, but the process is not draining the battery down at the moment.])
One of androids key attributes is the quick application switching via holding down the home button but some applications like pandora will run 'ongoing' so that you can multitask, while others will suspend so that you can save battery.... Kind of as a rule of thumb, unless it is monitoring or actively outputting it will be suspended.... so apps like pandora and wifi tethering continue to function when you switch applications because tehy'er ongoing whereas a note editor application would suspend itself untill it's brought back to focus because how are you going to type without it forefront?
dcnblues said:
-I have a mac. I’m guessing most of the programs that let you manage files, root the phone, install Cyanogen mods, etc, are PC based. I found Android File Transfer, but am not clear on it's limits. Are there better options? What will the AFT program be good for? [Emulating PC’s is a pain I would rather avoid, but I have been thinking of running virtual box to donate some processing time to the Large Hadron Collider, so I might be able to run some of these PC programs].
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off nice LHC Mac joke I take it we're running the server edition cause hey, more is never enough.
I honestly can't tell you much from the mac POV other than that it would hopefully work the same as the linux instructions but i kind of expect version/dependency differences... to be fair this triumph is rootable by application ran on the phone (Which you can GMail to yourself and download as attatchment, bluetooth, wifi shared folder, usb mounting, or download directly to the phone..) The custom recovery is installed via drag and drop on USB Removable Disc so it's not nearly as bad as some of the other phones would be,
dcnblues said:
-Any skins or options to turn the google apps into light text on dark background? (I'm aware of and have used the option in Gmail). I hate black text on white background. I'm kooky that way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Feel free to, they exist, I would however suggest against them... I walk to work a lot and it's a pain in the ass to read those emails when you have the sun on the screen; granted everything is harder this was damn near impossible... Nonetheless check for the black apps listed in xda/android/themes and apps... I'll link soon. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1206774
dcnblues said:
This Android phone is good looking, the plan costs much less than a thousand a year (which I refuse to pay), and I LOVE the Google voice options to turn your text and calls into computer files which you can archive as you wish. The Google voice activation / text / search is far superior to iAnything, voip/wifi is the balls, and I think a lot people who've been holding off from getting a smartphone will jump on this combo, and this thread may help them. Many thanks...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would like to point out that with the GVoice extension/app for google chrome
you can continue your SMS conversations that way... I recieved one of the CR48s and this has been AWESOME for me.
As far as voip services, I have found using 3g too slow. That said I do recommend sipdroid. It will setup a pbx account for you using your google voice number. Upon connecting to wifi, sipdroid will start running allowing you to make and receive calls.
Sent from my MOTWX435KT using XDA App
Thanks guys for the very useful help. I'm kind of burned out on all the research, and kind of bummed that this red-hot, billion dollar business seems to be run by such morons. SO many unnecessary complications to offering consumers simple, workable products and services.
This has been a great help.
bigvandal said:
GrooveIP works great over 3g...I dunno how much we will be able to use it once they start capping data..bastards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm actually kind of grateful to Virgin Mobile for the $35 dollar plan. I can communicate via voice to text, for a fair price, so until I have a real problem, I'm not going to call them bastards. Until I have a problem, of course...
I do hate the BS in advertising 'unlimited' plans, but having them smirking in their headquarters as they say to themselves 'but we didn't say at what rate...'
On the other hand, people downloading movies over cell frequencies aren't exactly providing solutions to the problem either...
rubbachicken said:
GrooVe IP is actually the only thing i've bothered to use because it worked well enough, I havn't put it to test over 3g... In the future, you can root the phone and update it to sprint PRL (Their towers instead of VMU) - People have reported up to like 6-900kbps doing this... I would suggest to not factor this last suggestion in yet as you won't be extremely comfortable with your first smart phone being messed with (But a possibility nonetheless)...Android is supposed to self manage tasks and processes... realistically you just have to make sure not to leave your bluetooth wifi and gps on all the time... Also taking the screen brightness down a fuzz from max will help batt life tremendously... Android will suspend a process and kill an activity when you return to homescreen....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, thanks very much. For this and all the information. Colossally useful.
Groove IP is actually having a problem today due to some change in the Google servers. Hope it's resolved soon as I'd like to get this running.
Quick confirm: Triumph is LCD and not AMOLED, Correct?
I'm really tempted to buy a Pixel 2 XL but the privacy aspect of it freaks me out a bit.
I'm concerned with my online privacy: I don't have FB, try to avoid having a central provider of apps (i.e. Google), use a VPN, Signal, you get the picture.
Is it possible to stay this way and own a Pixel 2? Some specifics of things I'd like to avoid: microphone recording all the time, definitely not uploading my photos to Google Photos, Google having the ability to "see" my phone screen at all times, location being constantly recorded, etc.
Could rooting the Pixel 2 help with this? Also, does rooting to use something like LineageOS on the Pixel 2 negatively impact the quality of the camera?
Thanks!
How comfortable are you with building android from sources? The pixel 2 is supported by copperhead OS which would probably cover all of your needs.
Miguel Carvalho said:
I'm really tempted to buy a Pixel 2 XL but the privacy aspect of it freaks me out a bit.
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First, as someone who spent years working on other company's databases, I can tell you from experience that the few people at Google who can access your data aren't going to be accessing it. When they're working on a database, it's not your data they're looking for, it's the reason the database isn't working that they're looking for. Once they find that they go on to the real work they're being paid for and try to catch up on the time they wasted getting the database (which may hold everyone's pictures or everyone's contacts) working. Fixing data isn't their primary job. And they don't have a moment to waste looking at your contacts to see if there's someone they'd like to call. Put someone in with a totally wrong ZIP code (like someone in Los Angeles with a ZIP code starting with 6 - which is Illinois) and they'll never change it for you. It's wrong, if they see it they'll know - but they'll never be looking at it.
I'm concerned with my online privacy: I don't have FB, try to avoid having a central provider of apps (i.e. Google), use a VPN, Signal, you get the picture.
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And the VPN keeps a log of every connection you make, so that keeps it nice and centralized, if the government ever wants it. Bad idea.
Is it possible to stay this way and own a Pixel 2? Some specifics of things I'd like to avoid: microphone recording all the time
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Don't turn on your voice recorder. The Pixel doesn't record "all the time".
definitely not uploading my photos to Google Photos
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Then turn Photo Sync off. (Although even if you had pictures of a plot to overthrow the government, I doubt that anyone would ever find them.)
Google having the ability to "see" my phone screen at all times
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They don't, any more than anyone else on the internet does. If you don't run a VNC server, no one does.
location being constantly recorded
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Keep location turned off. Of course, if you lose your phone, you won't be able to use Android Device Manager to find it.
Could rooting the Pixel 2 help with this?
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Not unless you want to use an app that requires root access that would "help with this". And none of what you're talking about so far involves root access.
Also, does rooting to use something like LineageOS on the Pixel 2 negatively impact the quality of the camera?
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You can run Lineage without rooting. If you root, then install Lineage, you'll have to root again, because (as far as I know - I haven't run Lineage yet) Lineage doesn't come rooted. Does it affect the camera? Not if you still run Google's camera app. If you run a 3rd party camera app, probably. (Google does the HDR in the software of the camera app.)
If you want total anonymity, just do 2 things - never use a phone and never get on the internet. (Also never use a credit or debit card, don't have a bank account, pay cash for everything all the time, don't have a real job [wages have to be reported to the government - any government] ...) Basically, live totally off the grid. As soon as you get on the internet (even from a library's computer) you've left a trail. As soon as you've opened a bank account you've left a trail. As soon as you've applied for a credit card you've left a trail. And any of those 3 is a lot less secure than the data you back up to Google.
So you have a choice - live a totally paranoid life as a hermit in a cave, or learn to live in society, take normal precautions and stop thinking that everyone's trying to get your information. Very few people (other than organizations like your government's taxing agency) care. (I've been on the internet, storing data on servers, since servers used to dial each other up once a day - and I've never had any data compromised or had a "visit from the black helicopters". [And, on most sites, I've used my real name and real location, so I'm easy to find, if anyone wants to look for me.] I've been bothered more by people trying to sell me their brand of religion waking me up, and I don't have "No Trespassing" signs on my lawn.)
(Just don't use your phone for anything illegal. But don't use a computer for anything illegal either. If the police come for you they'll take your phone. But they'll take your laptop, desktop and all your papers.)
Miguel Carvalho said:
I'm really tempted to buy a Pixel 2 XL but the privacy aspect of it freaks me out a bit.
I'm concerned with my online privacy: I don't have FB, try to avoid having a central provider of apps (i.e. Google), use a VPN, Signal, you get the picture.
Is it possible to stay this way and own a Pixel 2? Some specifics of things I'd like to avoid: microphone recording all the time, definitely not uploading my photos to Google Photos, Google having the ability to "see" my phone screen at all times, location being constantly recorded, etc.
Could rooting the Pixel 2 help with this? Also, does rooting to use something like LineageOS on the Pixel 2 negatively impact the quality of the camera?
Thanks!
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Click to collapse
I'm just like you! I suggest to check all the settings on myactivity.google.com and turn every option off, especially "web activity and apps". I stay away from social networks and use a good VPN too, but I've just found out on XDA that it's a bad idea, as VPN keep log of your activity... What do you think??
I also use Orbot sometimes, but with all scripts disabled some sites are unreachable.
As to the photos, to tell you the truth I'm not concerned at all, since I only post pics of my cats, animals, wallpapers and so on... :laugh:
I can't help you with rooting, this is my firt Android phone, I bought it in April!