Related
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/28/new-licensing-service-replacing-existing-copy-protection-metho/
Looks like pretty soon the days of people copy and pasting apk's all over the place are coming to an end.
I hope this doesn't make theming harder.. We'll see.
From reading that article,
Seems like airplane mode or a firewall would crush all the hopes and dreams of google and app devs.
It seems that every time we open an app it needs to verify that it's been paid for by contacting a "licensing" server and retrieving a response.
I feel like that could slow down launch times, and being unable to use an app when offline would be like UBISOFT hell all over again.
I really hope google puts a lot of thought into this..
I wonder if this if already being done? Every time I try to play that golf game on my EVO on an airplane while the radios are off I get a FC when it starts. As soon as I an on the ground and turn the radios on the game works fine.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
what if you are in an area with no signal or on a plane or something? you cant open any apps???
This is already in place in a number of apps, one is IP Cam Viewer.
I paid the money for it. I transferred all my files to my wife's Evo 4G, and thought "hell I'll see if it works..." Well it didn't. When I try to open the app, it tells me that I have to purchase it from the marketplace.
I'm all for buying apps when they're good, and I understand single user licensing. Guess I was just hoping I wouldn't have to spend double the money for all the apps I use.
simplyphp said:
This is already in place in a number of apps, one is IP Cam Viewer.
I paid the money for it. I transferred all my files to my wife's Evo 4G, and thought "hell I'll see if it works..." Well it didn't. When I try to open the app, it tells me that I have to purchase it from the marketplace.
I'm all for buying apps when they're good, and I understand single user licensing. Guess I was just hoping I wouldn't have to spend double the money for all the apps I use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've heard of couples sharing the same email as apps get replicated on the two phone
I can confirm that they don't get replicated..
I have two evo's right now under the same email and they're definitely not replicating crap.
cahiatt said:
I wonder if this if already being done? Every time I try to play that golf game on my EVO on an airplane while the radios are off I get a FC when it starts. As soon as I an on the ground and turn the radios on the game works fine.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that's a problem I understand about paying for apps but not working when I'm in a place with no signal. I see a law suit brewing up. I paid for the app I should be able to use the app whenever I want to. Class action law suit coming real soon.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Crap....
"A limitation of copy protection is that applications using it can be installed only on compatible devices that provide a secure internal storage environment. For example, a copy-protected application cannot be downloaded from Market to a device that provides root access"
...Seriously???
EDIT - the above quote was misrepresented in the place I copied from...research shows it to be misleading. the actual bit of Google's text is posted over on page to of this thread. disregard my indignation in this post...
This is discouraging, because a lot of people like to try the full before they buy it expecting more than what full has to offer, only to be disappointed later.
willwgp said:
This is discouraging, because a lot of people like to try the full before they buy it expecting more than what full has to offer, only to be disappointed later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do get a 24 hour refund option when you buy from the market so I'm not worried about trying before you buy. I do worry about not being able to play something when I'm in the bathroom at work because I don't get a signal there.
well how many ppl do actually piracy apps??? oh my bad forgot that this is Android, for a second i though it was apple!!
Just to clarify a couple of things:
There are 2 ways to use the Licensing - one is Strict - you CAN NOT USE THE APP WITHOUT ACCESS TO MARKETPLACE. Personally, screw that.
Option 2, however, is a non-strict policy. Server managed, where the license is 'cached' to storage. You also can programmatically set how long your app can be used without any license check.
That'd be the way i go
josue85 said:
You do get a 24 hour refund option when you buy from the market so I'm not worried about trying before you buy. I do worry about not being able to play something when I'm in the bathroom at work because I don't get a signal there.
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Click to collapse
That'll be up to the developer. I like this approach, as I'd be happy to do say... a 5-7 day turn around on the license check. After 7 days with no data signal, seriously, where the hell are you? LOL
Besides, if you've used a paid app for 7 days, and by that time can't decide if you need it or not - wow.
And of course, as soon as you got signal again, the license check would go through and you can use the app again, no problem.
I'm sure there will be UbiSoft and EA style implementations though - way too damn draconian for my tastes. I don't care to know every single second that someone's using my app. I would just like to know that they haven't 'copied that floppy' as it were LOL
I have no doubts this will be defeated in time, though. All it would really take is mimicking the server license response, which can be extracted from the locally cached license of an actual paid product.
People that pirate software are going to do it, regardless. Don't make the honest people pay the price of draconian DRM.
The best approach I can make as a developer, is give my customers the features they want, in a stable, good performing package, and discourage 'casual' piracy. Beyond that, it's out of the developer's control, and honestly, any more than that usually just pisses off the customer and annoys the pirates for about a day and a half.
Ok...had to read the SDK paperwork as I really wanted to know this...my previous post was incorrect and here is the update...
From Google:
Android Market Licensing is a flexible, secure mechanism for controlling access to your applications. It effectively replaces the copy-protection mechanism offered on Android Market and gives you wider distribution potential for your applications.
A limitation of the legacy copy-protection mechanism on Android Market is that applications using it can be installed only on compatible devices that provide a secure internal storage environment. For example, an application using the copy-protection mechanism cannot be downloaded from Market to a device that provides root access, and the application cannot be installed to a device's SD card.
With Android Market licensing, you can move to a license-based model in which access is not bound to the characteristics of the host device, but to your publisher account on Android Market and the licensing policy that you define. Your application can be installed and controlled on any compatible device on any storage, including SD card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also...there are options for the Devs to allow for apps to be used a chosen number of times before they need to check in for licenses. Strict has to check in every time....other option allows dev to choose based on times used or time since last check in.
SO...all in all I am much less worried about this now.
topdnbass said:
I can confirm that they don't get replicated..
I have two evo's right now under the same email and they're definitely not replicating crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With licensing the dev can choose whether an app can be accessed from different phones. It is an option...
(greeked...multiple times)
Question: Does that mean we won't be able to open, modify, and resign apks? Like...to change the appearance (make a widget clear, etc).
More like bad news for paying consumers. That's who always pays for everything. Those of us who actually buy the products.
I plan on speaking with my wallet. I wont buy any app that requires I have an internet connection.
A limitation of the legacy copy-protection mechanism on Android Market is that applications using it can be installed only on compatible devices that provide a secure internal storage environment. For example, an application using the copy-protection mechanism cannot be downloaded from Market to a device that provides root access, and the application cannot be installed to a device's SD card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait so according to google us rooted folk couldn't download copy-protected apps before now?
Urrr, i think im missing something
This is actually a nice implementation for both the software developer and the user. Most will implement this where it only has to check-in every week or two. So the odds of getting caught in a spot where there is no connection is low.
At the end of the day, it is a pretty straightforward way to handle copy protection that really shouldn't inconvenience anyone.
Also it will bring more developers to the platform if they know they don't have to worry as much about piracy.
Piracy will still run rampant. People will find ways to circumvent this, that's just how it is. At least it will curb some piracy since copying and pasting an apk file wasn't much of a deterrent.
I hope this time it's the correct forum.
So long story short.
I've written an app that allows to hijack FaceBook profiles over the WiFi. So when you're connected to WiFi you can "hack" into other users profiles. It doesn't work for profiles using SSL (yes you have that option in FB). So it can be treated as a "bad app". BUT! it is not dangerous for the one using it. I am aware that this is "questionable" application, but is there any other way to tell people - "HEY! use secure connections, it is not safe to use public WIFI!". I'd bet that a lot of you don't use SSL now and after using/reading this app you will turn SSL on.
That could be the #1 reason for deleting my app.
The second one is that I've put a 'demo' app in the market with a limit to sniffing only 3 profiles. But you could buy it through paypal. And today I've found out that this also could lead to app deletion. However i've bought launcherpro through paypal so I don't see why my app was removed in less than 24 hours.
What is your opinion and what can I do to sell my app somehow (i need my 25$ back that I've paid to register in google wrr...). Is there an option I could do put it in market without google deleting it like putting a disclaimer or something? The app itself is safe for the user downloading it.
Edit: If I put a link to this app here will this thread be deleted? If so, is there an option to promote it here?
Per forum rules, link removed
bponury said:
I've written an app that allows to hijack FaceBook profiles over the WiFi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's your answer.
JamesC_ said:
There's your answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 on that
if it allows you to hijack fb you can steal other information from the users account so why would they allow it and put themselves into a legal bind for doing so
JamesC_ said:
There's your answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So if it wasn't for this app you would be safe? No, facebook is ignoring users privacy and this app is nothing more then a good way to show people what could be the cost of not using secure connections. Of course this can be used in a bad way, a lot of apps can. Like sms bombing or phone number spoofing. But they are not removed from the marked do they?
Ethics
And even worse you want to get paid for it.
wdl1908 said:
Ethics
And even worse you want to get paid for it.
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Click to collapse
Yes, I know what ethic is however we're not living in a perfect world and just believing that everyone is good and ethical so I can just leave my door open when leaving the house is not going to protect me against the reality. I believe in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_disclosure and this case is even better because FaceBook is aware of the problem and just ignore it. A few people are aware that there's an option to use SSL on facebook. In my opinion FB should just get it done right and force users to use it. It's not a problem these days right? And what is wrong in getting paid for my work. I've spent some time developing it. Security by obscurity is not working, really. Take my app for example it would take max 1h to crack it. It's not security it's just being to lazy to secure it. And hoping that no one would care to crack it.
sms bombing is not hacking someones account! you are just spamming someone with messages.
even if it is down to fb to let people know about security, the market owners can be sued for allowing such an app on the market. there are better ways of showing a person how unsecure a connection is without punishing them in such a way.
the secure connection is useful for public connections but some people may not want or need to use it at home so they have the ability to switch it on or off. apparently there are issues with some games on fb that are linked in with the use of the secure connection.
traumatism said:
sms bombing is not hacking someones account! you are just spamming someone with messages.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People are killed for spamming in russia (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/26/russian_spammer_killed/)
And what about spoofing caller id? AFAIK that things are valid in court cases in Poland.
traumatism said:
even if it is down to fb to let people know about security, the market owners can be sued for allowing such an app on the market. there are better ways of showing a person how unsecure a connection is without punishing them in such a way.
the secure connection is useful for public connections but some people may not want or need to use it at home so they have the ability to switch it on or off. apparently there are issues with some games on fb that are linked in with the use of the secure connection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know how to tell people - secure yourself any other way. I know i'm devils (myself) advocate right now, but really do you think that forgetting about insecurity is a good way? I don't force anyone to use it in a bad way. But after I showed how it works in my house all my room-mates turned SSL on instantly. And they were not mad about it, shocked a bit but now they are safer now. Sure you can just tell people - hey turn ssl on and 90% of them will ignore you. But when you show them - look! i can see your messages that easily if you don't do it. Then they would listen.
haha! So, if someone got a gun and went around shooting people in cars to proove that they should actually have bullet proof windows and burst-proof tyres, that it's all ok, and not in any way shape or form, illegal?
ha. ha.
infact op ip should be reported to facebook
By nature I wouldn't go near this app. If its collecting other peoples info I could be collecting my own. Thats how I see it logically ... people always get screwed when they are doing something they shouldn't be doing.
There is a place for all apps in this world be they good or bad. You could always host a site and put it on there. I wouldn't go near it cause once again I'd be afraid of whats laced on that site.
I was just providing another point of view to the convo.
MarkusPO said:
haha! So, if someone got a gun and went around shooting people in cars to proove that they should actually have bullet proof windows and burst-proof tyres, that it's all ok, and not in any way shape or form, illegal?
ha. ha.
infact op ip should be reported to facebook
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So if you have a car that can be opened by someone who has a screwdriver wouldn't you want car manufacturer to secure your car. Buying a bulletproof car isn't exactly the same as pushing a button in a web browser isn't it? And you're comparing killing a man to posting "I'm a jackass on someones FB wall". But still, you can buy a gun right? Also pretending that there's no problem isn't fixing a problem.
And hey, this app isn't new you know, if it wasn't for this thread maybe you wouldn't know that people use this apps on PC's maybe one day you would find that all your mail is gone (yes, this app could be modified to work with other sites like this forum). And ask yourself wouldn't you be pissed if you've found out that anyone using your network could get into your bank account? Well I would. But most (all?) banks use SSL by default. Google does. Why FB doesn't?
hazard99 said:
By nature I wouldn't go near this app. If its collecting other peoples info I could be collecting my own. Thats how I see it logically ... people always get screwed when they are doing something they shouldn't be doing.
There is a place for all apps in this world be they good or bad. You could always host a site and put it on there. I wouldn't go near it cause once again I'd be afraid of whats laced on that site.
I was just providing another point of view to the convo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, in fact it needs root to modify iptables and send raw arp messages and I know people get scared when an app needs root. If someone is interested I could write here how it's done and anyone could write it. It's actually nothing magical.
I wrote this app as a project for my mobile programming class. In the first version it also sniffed for Gadu-Gadu messages (it's a polish messenger). But I sure hope that when and if this app let's loose than FB will react and enable ssl by default. Maybe other websites will use it too. It's just that easy to protect your users, I don't understand why they don't do it?
most people who do not want their details stolen, do not use public access internet. does FB take money transactions over their site?
google does and the banks do so they will have a secure section. fb may do this using paypal or google checkout or otherwise so may not need the ssl that the banks need. sure it still renders people vulnerable to attack and theft of other information but even so that information is very limited dependant on the user of the account.
traumatism said:
most people who do not want their details stolen, do not use public access internet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, so other people want their details stolen? You are aware of the problem 'cause your "into computers" but out of 500 milion fb users how many of them ever heard of SSL? How many know that they are unsafe?
well with the amount of messages being spread on fb already about this i think more people will know, but to let people know only by stealing their details is pathetic. sure you may have made this app for a project but why give other people the power to do this. all you are doing is providing more uses for those who like to make other peoples lives a misery. the best thing that could be done with this is to let the website provider know how unsecure their system is. especially if you are aware of the issue and are bothered by it. i know i'd do the same. if that didnt work, sure i'd tell people about it but i wouldnt sell an app on to others so they can make use of it. not even for free.
traumatism said:
well with the amount of messages being spread on fb already about this i think more people will know, but to let people know only by stealing their details is pathetic. sure you may have made this app for a project but why give other people the power to do this. all you are doing is providing more uses for those who like to make other peoples lives a misery. the best thing that could be done with this is to let the website provider know how unsecure their system is. especially if you are aware of the issue and are bothered by it. i know i'd do the same. if that didnt work, sure i'd tell people about it but i wouldnt sell an app on to others so they can make use of it. not even for free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure I could write an e-mail to facebook, but this issue is known for years! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_hijacking I am sure FaceBook is aware of it. In fact they've enabled SSL only a month ago (maybe two months) but why it isn't enabled by default?
who knows. perhaps issues with other applications on the website, or applications made to access facebook. they may have left it so they can cater for other applications for and on the site. only they can answer that question.
anyway, he just showed the spirit of a developer and created something new
he never told anyone "hey go hack facebook profiles" or "sniff those profiles, its fun"
he just showed the possibilites of android development and did nothing wrong in my opinion
it's not his fault if facebook is unable to close a security leak known for a long time
yeah dont get me wrong blezz i understand that completely. but the argument was as to why they would remove it. legality reasons would be tne main issue. to cover their own backs as they can in fact face legal action for allowing the app to become available in their market.
I don't see anything wrong with the app.
It shows the flaws of facebook, and the fact that no one in facebook cares enough to do anything about it. But then I understand whygoogle would remove it... If facebook decided to sue for this google would be sued not YOU.
so it would be best if you released it HERE on xda rather than the market
Well Folks,
So I've been using this OS now for 2 full months and by full I mean I have spent most of my free time learning about it and as much as I find this OS exciting and I believe this is where computing is really at now, I thought I'd share some thoughts on its irritants and get your feedback and opinions about it, so that it could be improved upon in future iterations.
I would like to mention that I have been using computers since the days of punched cards back in the 70s and that I'm no stranger to writing programs, although I am not a computing or IT professional and have only dabbled working on a few programs and scripts only to the extent of doing what was necessary for my work.
That being said, here's some of what I think of this OS, its strengths and weaknesses, its bugs (some, most probably from Google, would insist they are features - more on this later) and its successes. I hope that by posting this others will add their comments, rants and raves as well.
To moderators, if this has already been discussed or of this should be moved to another forum or in any way wish to criticize it, feel free to do so.
***
As much as I was a Microsoft fan during the 90s, this OS sold me as the only one where freedom to innovate and a large community of enthusiasts seem to thrive, whereas Microsoft has become sclerotic and is now under control of corporate culture and thinking, in other words, it's lost its soul and is just running on inertia. I'll stop here so as not to insult the grays who have taken control of it and think it's the best thing since sliced bread.
The open source / free software (lets not get into semantics, please!) sure has fostered a lot of friendly development and sharing and this is definitely the way of the future, notwithstanding what corporate America believes. History has proven that small entities have always been the most productive in society, and it shows in real life and especially here: Although Google, who is the de-facto giant in control of the platform, officially frowns on user control and participation into the OS, it actually benefits from it and doesn't interfere too much with its evolution and as far as I can see, has actually embraced quite a few innovations that we've seen coming to life here and on other forums.
In other words, they don't like it when developers modify it, but are happy to benefit from it in the end, except perhaps those innovations that give more control to users that they wish users should have, but at least and contrarily to Apple and Microsoft, they are not persecuting those who innovate. God knows we already have way too much of that military-style control in our society where major corporations and their lawyers dictate pretty much what citizens can and cannot do.
As much as this OS is promising with its fundamental openness (at least at its roots) and is the least oppressive of them all, there is still a lot to do, or should I say, a lot of restrictions to lift and doors to open to make it a truly open and free platform for software development, and this goes straight back to Google and its overbearing influence on the development of this OS. But I guess we have had to sacrifice some freedom in order to get some support from this corporate giant; so here are some things that, over the past two months experience with the platform, I find severely lacking and in dire need of rethinking:
- Google's overbearing attitude and control over users, especially personified in the Play Store, where one cannot comment freely anymore and the use of which has been aggravating to no end and THE cause of crashes and dysfunction of the device: It only works some times and is so ingrained in the OS that when it misbehaves, you often have to no choice but to reinitialize the OS (aka the 'cold boot'), which, of course, causes havoc with your data and personal settings, which brings me to my next issue:
- The File System: Where is my stuff stored and why is it so difficult to find it and save it? You'd think it's a crime to save your own data! What gives? Why is it so difficult for apps or user settings to be saved in a location chosen by the user? Just try this: of all you apps, how many of them can you access the data from outside of the application and keep safe for the next time when your phone needs to be reinitialized?
- Connection to external devices: We all agree that connection is king and the key to efficient use of portable devices. Can someone explain to me then why does Android make is so difficult to access and transfer files between LOCAL DEVICES such as USB drives and computers and why it must hide some parts of itself and makes every effort to hide user data and keep it out of reach from its owner?
- The Cloud Fad: why is it that Google insists so much on taking over my Data? Why is it not telling me where it is stored and why is it hiding it from me? Knowing how Google manipulates and basically snoops in on everything you do (it's been proven), why would anyone in their right mind trust to have their stuff stored out of their reach when external hard drive so cheap it's almost free? Can someone explain what the advantage is to me, especially when wireless connections are precarious at best and data transport costs more and more? You find that 'convenient'?
- Background Data: Can someone tell me why my device needs to transport SO MUCH stuff in the background and why it needs to do so when it can operate quite happily otherwise when it notices that there isn't a data connection available? Doesn't Google realize that Wireless Data is horrendously expensive? Why can I not, as a user, control what data is sent back in the background in a granular way instead of having to shut it down at system level? Is Google afraid what users might find out about what information is sent to their servers without their explicit knowledge? Which brings me finally to
- Permissions: Why is it so difficult for users to control application permissions? Just like licenses, we only have the choice to 'take it or leave it', without any true knowledge what we sold the devil. Permissions are pernicious and should be under total control of the user. Those developers who need those permissions should explain them all and make it possible for users to deactivate them all so that users could see if the reduced functionality is worth it or not. LET USERS DECIDES WHAT GOES ON THEIR DEVICE!
***
So that's it for my Saturday afternoon rant. Like I said, these things have irritated me for a long time. If you have objections, comments or accolades and additions, here's the place to do so, unless of course the moderators decide otherwise: if this has been discussed somewhere else and I've bothered you with this post, by all means let me know.
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
User data is stored in the /data partition. Apps can be found in /data/app and app data is found in /data/data
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
You can control an apps permissions, again with an app that needs root access. Found on the Play Store.
Sent from my Slim E4GT using xda premium
Mattix724 said:
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that is the beauty of Android
Mattix724 said:
User data is stored in the /data partition. Apps can be found in /data/app and app data is found in /data/data
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Click to collapse
Great to know! But you must admit that having to ask, or more precisely not being told where it is, is disturbing! Because what is more important than your data? WHY does it have to be so difficult to get to it? Why the secrecy? Don't users deserve to know where their files are and be able to select where to store them? Why am I not AUTOMATICALLY given the CHOICE as to its name and its location on my device?
Mattix724 said:
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but why is such an essential function NOT part of the OS and what more, why does it require the user to VIOLATE his warranty (by rooting) to do so? Don't you see what's WRONG with this?
Mattix724 said:
You can control an apps permissions, again with an app that needs root access. Found on the Play Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I understand; but doing so often breaks the apps. WHY do we need these permissions IMPOSED upon us in the first place? Doesn't it strike you as WRONG that so many apps need to access your most private information?
And coming back to the Google Play Store: I've used my device for two months and had to wipe it clean TWICE already and EVERY TIME because the Play Store refused to work anymore! Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? Doesn't it hint at some homeland-security-esque infiltration deep into the OS from the part of Google?
***
In any case, I thank you for pointing out the practical solutions and workarounds and for getting the ball rolling, so to speak; but my point was more philosophical: WHY should we have to essentially "fight system" with these workarounds to do such straightforward things as as saving documents in a place of the user's choosing, being able to transfer files directly to his PC and being able to keep user privacy?
doesn't that bother anyone?
Shouldn't Android become more open and accessible as a platform that truly empowers its users and leave Apple and Microsoft to cater to those who couldn't be bothered?
Looking forward to your answers!
I sware people will complain nomatter what
Sent by Hellybelly 4.2.2
Disabling Background Data Completely?
Mattix724 said:
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
Sent from my Slim E4GT using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, so I have looked very extensively, spending hours searching for a way to disable background data and although they are many ways to do so when on cellular data, short of shutting off WiFi altogether, I have not found any discussion, much less a way to do so completely when on WiFi.
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
So the question remains: short of shutting off data altogether, how can I disable background data completely?
Wouldn't it be possible to either fake a connection so as to fool the system into thinking there is a connection for its hidden background processes, or to wake a connection up on demand when initiating querries and put it to sleep immediately after the answer has arrived?
Old faithful said:
OK, so I have looked very extensively, spending hours searching for a way to disable background data and although they are many ways to do so when on cellular data, short of shutting off WiFi altogether, I have not found any discussion, much less a way to do so completely when on WiFi.
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
So the question remains: short of shutting off data altogether, how can I disable background data completely?
Wouldn't it be possible to either fake a connection so as to fool the system into thinking there is a connection for its hidden background processes, or to wake a connection up on demand when initiating querries and put it to sleep immediately after the answer has arrived?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A simple data firewall program will take care of that. It will allow you to control what and when things get a data connection.
zelendel said:
A simple data firewall program will take care of that. It will allow you to control what and when things get a data connection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... I'm using Avast and its firewall doesn't have the option to turn off background data on Wi-Fi, it's either turn off Wi-Fi or not, no option to just turn off background data and leave access to foreground data. I've tried a few other apps that don't have this option either; it's all or nothing.
Do you know of any apps that have that granular choice? Could you suggest a few?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2
Old faithful said:
...
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what sort of background data do you want to disable? regarding weather, email, and news, turn off auto sync (disable it all, or by program).
edscholl said:
what sort of background data do you want to disable? regarding weather, email, and news, turn off auto sync (disable it all, or by program).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Precisely ... WHAT sort of background data needs to go on anyway?
Fetching the weather info takes up a few tens of KB. What then does it need to transfer megabytes in the background for then? My wife's weather widget in particular has used over 200 MB over the past month in background data whereas it has only needed a couple of megs to update itself! Doesn't that seem exaggerated?
My point is, what is background data needed for when these apps work perfectly well on demand with a tiny fraction of the bandwidth? Why is there no disclosure what exactly it is used for, if shutting data off when not in use has absolutely no detrimental effect on the function of the app, in other words, what's really going on?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2
Count your blessings!
I agree with you to some extent. Of course, you can do anything with root access, but why isn't this right here in front of me out of the box. With my Galaxy S III, managing the file system is a pain, and considering my USB Sync cable doesn't work long enough to make file transfers of 100MB+, this is a real problem. I don't want everything in the cloud, I want it here. I don't have internet (fast data speeds, at the least) everywhere. I would hope that Android advances with these features. I also wish there was a way, out of the box with skinned (by carrier or manufacturer) devices that you could disable all skins and themes and use the glorious Stock Android.
Seriously though, count your blessings, at least you're not using iOS!
Old faithful said:
Precisely ... WHAT sort of background data needs to go on anyway?
Fetching the weather info takes up a few tens of KB. What then does it need to transfer megabytes in the background for then? My wife's weather widget in particular has used over 200 MB over the past month in background data whereas it has only needed a couple of megs to update itself! Doesn't that seem exaggerated?
My point is, what is background data needed for when these apps work perfectly well on demand with a tiny fraction of the bandwidth? Why is there no disclosure what exactly it is used for, if shutting data off when not in use has absolutely no detrimental effect on the function of the app, in other words, what's really going on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So shut sync off if you prefer. I like my apps up to date when I wake my phone, but nobody is going to force you to keep sync on. This is such a non-issue.
As for weather, I guess it depends what app she's using. Looks like my weather widget used less than 1mb of data in the last month...
Background Data Implications
edscholl said:
So shut sync off if you prefer. I like my apps up to date when I wake my phone, but nobody is going to force you to keep sync on. This is such a non-issue.
As for weather, I guess it depends what app she's using. Looks like my weather widget used less than 1mb of data in the last month...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On my device, with sync off, background data off, I still get 119 KB foreground, 2.33 MB in the background for the past week, on WiFi, whcih I already turn off most of the time, because it's the only way I have found so far to stop the data leak.
I understand this may be a non issue for folks who have gigabytes of bandwidth a month and don't pay $50 per megabyte off contract like we do or $10 for 100MB, but my concern is deeper than that: what's happening in the background? Why do YOU implicitly trust what's happening in the background without full disclosure?
Also, regarding the voracity of Android for data, when I was on windows mobile with push email on a four hour basis, I used to use no more than a few MB per month, and that was with cellular data on at all times and I'd hardly use more than 50MB per month browsing on wap sites which did a great job of cutting out the non-content garbage that is so prevalent on regular 'full' sites these days.
I understand this may seem like a non-issue to those for whom data is plentiful and cheap, and that most of you implicitly trust what apps do with your data in the background, but to find this being dismissed is deeply worrisome to me: why SHOULD we trust Google and others corporations with our personal information, without even as much as a look at what's being transferred and for what reason? Doesn't that disturb anyone at all???
In any case, thank you for answering and keeping the debate open, so to speak.
To turn off background data go to settings, select Data Usage, press menu button and the check the restrict background data check box.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
You can go even further and customize each apps background data usage from the same screen.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Sorry, just saw where you were talking about background data via WiFi....:banghead:
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Old faithful said:
On my device, with sync off, background data off, I still get 119 KB foreground, 2.33 MB in the background for the past week, on WiFi, whcih I already turn off most of the time, because it's the only way I have found so far to stop the data leak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what apps are using data? Why don't you turn off background data if you care? Heck, turn off WiFi and mobile networks when thou don't want to sync if you're worried about leakage.
Old faithful said:
I understand this may be a non issue for folks who have gigabytes of bandwidth a month and don't pay $50 per megabyte off contract like we do or $10 for 100MB, but my concern is deeper than that: what's happening in the background? Why do YOU implicitly trust what's happening in the background without full disclosure?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You implicitly trust apps with some data access when you install it, with the specific access given to you. If you think otherwise, your fooling yourself. I'm not sure why foreground vs background data makes much difference to you once you've trusted the app with data access anyway- it's not like it tells you how much data it's going to use per network transaction if you manually tell it to update...
Old faithful said:
Also, regarding the voracity of Android for data, when I was on windows mobile with push email on a four hour basis, I used to use no more than a few MB per month, and that was with cellular data on at all times and I'd hardly use more than 50MB per month browsing on wap sites which did a great job of cutting out the non-content garbage that is so prevalent on regular 'full' sites these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
50mb a month... I'm not sure I'd bother with a smartphone if I used data so little.
Old faithful said:
I understand this may seem like a non-issue to those for whom data is plentiful and cheap, and that most of you implicitly trust what apps do with your data in the background, but to find this being dismissed is deeply worrisome to me: why SHOULD we trust Google and others corporations with our personal information, without even as much as a look at what's being transferred and for what reason? Doesn't that disturb anyone at all???
In any case, thank you for answering and keeping the debate open, so to speak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We trust them because it makes our lives simpler, and quite frankly, most of us really aren't doing anything all that interesting with our data and Google and others really aren't interested in your personal info (not to be mistaken for an assertion that they're not interested in serving up ads relevant to you). But there's certainly a tradeoff. If you're not comfortable with it, turn it all off, or don't use a smartphone - nobody will hold it against thou.
Konvey said:
I agree with you to some extent. Of course, you can do anything with root access
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you can direct me to an app that allows me to COMPLETELY shut off background data for all apps including the OS, for any type of connection, incuding WiFi, I wouldn't be so concerned, but I have looked for the past two months now and found nothing so far that does that, even the acclaimed Droidwall can't turn background data off, even when everything is turned off, meaning, NO data access whatsoever: the bloody "OS Services" still happily does its thing in the backrground, and there is no way to find out what it does (I tried tPacketCapture - I only get 24 byte long files that I can't read anything out of)
Since it would seem that the problem is deep within the operating system, it would seem that the only way to completely shut off background data would be to give a local host redirect for every BACKGROUND process, such as what is possible in Windows using a 127.0.0.1 riderect. Since I'm a newbie when it comes to Android I don't know how to do it, but surely there must be a way, or a way to connect to WiFi only on demand?
Konvey said:
but why isn't this right here in front of me out of the box. With my Galaxy S III, managing the file system is a pain, and considering my USB Sync cable doesn't work long enough to make file transfers of 100MB+, this is a real problem. I don't want everything in the cloud, I want it here. I don't have internet (fast data speeds, at the least) everywhere. I would hope that Android advances with these features. I also wish there was a way, out of the box with skinned (by carrier or manufacturer) devices that you could disable all skins and themes and use the glorious Stock Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I am still looking for a file explorer with the functionality of my old Norton File Manager (remember that one?). I can't understand why the so-called 'expert' ones such as Root Explorer don't have accessible sorting features (why hide it in settings? Isn't that a basic, essential feature of any file management system to be able to sort based on these common criteria?).
Furthermore, I'd love nothing more than being able to swipe left from the home screen directly into the file system for direct access to shortcuts, packages and data, and to be able to specify where the OS shoudl store MY data (instead of keeping it hidden as is most often the case).
Konvey said:
Seriously though, count your blessings, at least you're not using iOS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more, I'll never have an Apple product in my house, no need to say more, we all know about Apple's control of its users and tyrannical ways. George Orwell had it mostly right, but where he failed is where Big Brother would come from: Not the government. Or perhaps we should say that Major Corporations, through the power of their lobbies, have indeed become the de-facto Government .
Thanks again for your answer, Ed.
edscholl said:
So what apps are using data? Why don't you turn off background data if you care? Heck, turn off WiFi and mobile networks when thou don't want to sync if you're worried about leakage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shutting WiFi off after use is what I've been doing of late, but it's an uphill battle. The minute I turn WiFi back on, the OS, like a ravenous dog, immediately gets into background data mode, trumping the foreground querries by volume. But it's a start
edscholl said:
You implicitly trust apps with some data access when you install it, with the specific access given to you. If you think otherwise, your fooling yourself. I'm not sure why foreground vs background data makes much difference to you once you've trusted the app with data access anyway- it's not like it tells you how much data it's going to use per network transaction if you manually tell it to update...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but to see the data exchange so lopsided (most of it being background) is what makes me wonder what it really does. Perhaps it can be trusted but what bothers me is these apps don't tell you what they really do 'for you' in background mode and why they need so much bandwidth... I mean, how much data is required to transmit temperatures, weather conditions and the such? Heck any update would surely fit in a sub KB transmission even for 3 or 4 cities like I have in my setup...
edscholl said:
50mb a month... I'm not sure I'd bother with a smartphone if I used data so little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To each his own, Ed. When data costs $10 for 100MB and the most you can get is 1GB for $60 (or as low as $30 on promo), you quickly come to your senses. That's, of course, another issue altogether.
Fact is, apart from media such as youtube and other streaming sites, text based information (or information update using apps that are supposed to have built in presentation such as snow fluries for "snow") should require very little data, typically 1KB per full size page. You have to admit that something is wrong with this picture that when I read a 500 word article it requires the same amount of bandwidth as the contents of a whole book!
edscholl said:
We trust them because it makes our lives simpler, and quite frankly, most of us really aren't doing anything all that interesting with our data and Google and others really aren't interested in your personal info (not to be mistaken for an assertion that they're not interested in serving up ads relevant to you). But there's certainly a tradeoff. If you're not comfortable with it, turn it all off, or don't use a smartphone - nobody will hold it against thou.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do make our lives simpler and there is a trade-off, agreed. The point I make is where the line should be crossed. Are we willing to get shoved with 99% non content garbage in order to access the remaining 1% meaningful content? Because that is certainly the going rate for full websites such as cnet, tech republic and others, and when looking at background data on Android, at least from my perspective. I was online back in 1993 when the www started (before on Co$tly Compuserve) and with the limited technology we had at the time we could get access to more meaningful content faster than we can now, and with very, very limited bandwidth!
Ok, ok, enough of the oldtimer rant Maybe you are right and I'm just an old fool. But I'd rather be considered an old fool for asking stupid questions than to accept it all without any question
Old faithful said:
Yes, but to see the data exchange so lopsided (most of it being background) is what makes me wonder what it really does. Perhaps it can be trusted but what bothers me is these apps don't tell you what they really do 'for you' in background mode and why they need so much bandwidth... I mean, how much data is required to transmit temperatures, weather conditions and the such? Heck any update would surely fit in a sub KB transmission even for 3 or 4 cities like I have in my setup...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and as I said, my weather widget uses (beautiful widgets) like 1mb a month. On my phone, the HTC sense widget uses like 5mb.
So if your weather app - again, what apps, specifically, are you having issues with? - is using hundreds of MBS, maybe it's doing a lot more (like live radar or videos), or maybe it's just crap and you should uninstall it.
Old faithful said:
Fact is, apart from media such as youtube and other streaming sites, text based information (or information update using apps that are supposed to have built in presentation such as snow fluries for "snow") should require very little data, typically 1KB per full size page. You have to admit that something is wrong with this picture that when I read a 500 word article it requires the same amount of bandwidth as the contents of a whole book!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are tilting at windmills. The average page size is pushing 1.5mb, and was more than 1k back in the Netscape beta days (15k average ~1995).
It's not uncommon for a http HEADER to be bigger than 1k.
Old faithful said:
They do make our lives simpler and there is a trade-off, agreed. The point I make is where the line should be crossed. Are we willing to get shoved with 99% non content garbage in order to access the remaining 1% meaningful content? Because that is certainly the going rate for full websites such as cnet, tech republic and others, and when looking at background data on Android, at least from my perspective. I was online back in 1993 when the www started (before on Co$tly Compuserve) and with the limited technology we had at the time we could get access to more meaningful content faster than we can now, and with very, very limited bandwidth!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your looking at the past through rose colored glasses if you remember more meaningful content being available in 1993. In mid 1993, there were 130 webpages, total. End of 1993, around 1000. End of 1994, around 10000. And a lot of them were useless crap that students were putting up (I know, I was one of them).
Old faithful said:
Ok, ok, enough of the oldtimer rant Maybe you are right and I'm just an old fool. But I'd rather be considered an old fool for asking stupid questions than to accept it all without any question
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not about accepting it without question. It's mainly you haven't given much specifics, so the only general answer is, well, it's for convenience, so turn off your data if you're worried. The details you did give - email and weather - it's very clear why they would use background data.
---------- Post added at 12:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------
Regarding your other points:
Old faithful said:
Great to know! But you must admit that having to ask, or more precisely not being told where it is, is disturbing! Because what is more important than your data? WHY does it have to be so difficult to get to it? Why the secrecy? Don't users deserve to know where their files are and be able to select where to store them? Why am I not AUTOMATICALLY given the CHOICE as to its name and its location on my device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That you didn't know where it was doesn't mean it is hidden or a secret; guidelines are published and clear, and apps generally follow them. You're not given a choice in name and location for simplicity.
Old faithful said:
True, but why is such an essential function NOT part of the OS and what more, why does it require the user to VIOLATE his warranty (by rooting) to do so? Don't you see what's WRONG with this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Commonly claimed, but rooting does not void your warranty. Problems you cause by rooting will do not need to be honored by the warranty.
Old faithful said:
Again, I understand; but doing so often breaks the apps. WHY do we need these permissions IMPOSED upon us in the first place? Doesn't it strike you as WRONG that so many apps need to access your most private information?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No app imposes anything on you - apps require the permissions they do and they're spelled out before you install. Don't install apps that required permissions thou don't like.
Old faithful said:
And coming back to the Google Play Store: I've used my device for two months and had to wipe it clean TWICE already and EVERY TIME because the Play Store refused to work anymore! Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? Doesn't it hint at some homeland-security-esque infiltration deep into the OS from the part of Google?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like your phone is broken. Get a replacement under warranty.
I'm really tempted to buy a Pixel 2 XL but the privacy aspect of it freaks me out a bit.
I'm concerned with my online privacy: I don't have FB, try to avoid having a central provider of apps (i.e. Google), use a VPN, Signal, you get the picture.
Is it possible to stay this way and own a Pixel 2? Some specifics of things I'd like to avoid: microphone recording all the time, definitely not uploading my photos to Google Photos, Google having the ability to "see" my phone screen at all times, location being constantly recorded, etc.
Could rooting the Pixel 2 help with this? Also, does rooting to use something like LineageOS on the Pixel 2 negatively impact the quality of the camera?
Thanks!
How comfortable are you with building android from sources? The pixel 2 is supported by copperhead OS which would probably cover all of your needs.
Miguel Carvalho said:
I'm really tempted to buy a Pixel 2 XL but the privacy aspect of it freaks me out a bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, as someone who spent years working on other company's databases, I can tell you from experience that the few people at Google who can access your data aren't going to be accessing it. When they're working on a database, it's not your data they're looking for, it's the reason the database isn't working that they're looking for. Once they find that they go on to the real work they're being paid for and try to catch up on the time they wasted getting the database (which may hold everyone's pictures or everyone's contacts) working. Fixing data isn't their primary job. And they don't have a moment to waste looking at your contacts to see if there's someone they'd like to call. Put someone in with a totally wrong ZIP code (like someone in Los Angeles with a ZIP code starting with 6 - which is Illinois) and they'll never change it for you. It's wrong, if they see it they'll know - but they'll never be looking at it.
I'm concerned with my online privacy: I don't have FB, try to avoid having a central provider of apps (i.e. Google), use a VPN, Signal, you get the picture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And the VPN keeps a log of every connection you make, so that keeps it nice and centralized, if the government ever wants it. Bad idea.
Is it possible to stay this way and own a Pixel 2? Some specifics of things I'd like to avoid: microphone recording all the time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't turn on your voice recorder. The Pixel doesn't record "all the time".
definitely not uploading my photos to Google Photos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then turn Photo Sync off. (Although even if you had pictures of a plot to overthrow the government, I doubt that anyone would ever find them.)
Google having the ability to "see" my phone screen at all times
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They don't, any more than anyone else on the internet does. If you don't run a VNC server, no one does.
location being constantly recorded
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep location turned off. Of course, if you lose your phone, you won't be able to use Android Device Manager to find it.
Could rooting the Pixel 2 help with this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not unless you want to use an app that requires root access that would "help with this". And none of what you're talking about so far involves root access.
Also, does rooting to use something like LineageOS on the Pixel 2 negatively impact the quality of the camera?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can run Lineage without rooting. If you root, then install Lineage, you'll have to root again, because (as far as I know - I haven't run Lineage yet) Lineage doesn't come rooted. Does it affect the camera? Not if you still run Google's camera app. If you run a 3rd party camera app, probably. (Google does the HDR in the software of the camera app.)
If you want total anonymity, just do 2 things - never use a phone and never get on the internet. (Also never use a credit or debit card, don't have a bank account, pay cash for everything all the time, don't have a real job [wages have to be reported to the government - any government] ...) Basically, live totally off the grid. As soon as you get on the internet (even from a library's computer) you've left a trail. As soon as you've opened a bank account you've left a trail. As soon as you've applied for a credit card you've left a trail. And any of those 3 is a lot less secure than the data you back up to Google.
So you have a choice - live a totally paranoid life as a hermit in a cave, or learn to live in society, take normal precautions and stop thinking that everyone's trying to get your information. Very few people (other than organizations like your government's taxing agency) care. (I've been on the internet, storing data on servers, since servers used to dial each other up once a day - and I've never had any data compromised or had a "visit from the black helicopters". [And, on most sites, I've used my real name and real location, so I'm easy to find, if anyone wants to look for me.] I've been bothered more by people trying to sell me their brand of religion waking me up, and I don't have "No Trespassing" signs on my lawn.)
(Just don't use your phone for anything illegal. But don't use a computer for anything illegal either. If the police come for you they'll take your phone. But they'll take your laptop, desktop and all your papers.)
Miguel Carvalho said:
I'm really tempted to buy a Pixel 2 XL but the privacy aspect of it freaks me out a bit.
I'm concerned with my online privacy: I don't have FB, try to avoid having a central provider of apps (i.e. Google), use a VPN, Signal, you get the picture.
Is it possible to stay this way and own a Pixel 2? Some specifics of things I'd like to avoid: microphone recording all the time, definitely not uploading my photos to Google Photos, Google having the ability to "see" my phone screen at all times, location being constantly recorded, etc.
Could rooting the Pixel 2 help with this? Also, does rooting to use something like LineageOS on the Pixel 2 negatively impact the quality of the camera?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm just like you! I suggest to check all the settings on myactivity.google.com and turn every option off, especially "web activity and apps". I stay away from social networks and use a good VPN too, but I've just found out on XDA that it's a bad idea, as VPN keep log of your activity... What do you think??
I also use Orbot sometimes, but with all scripts disabled some sites are unreachable.
As to the photos, to tell you the truth I'm not concerned at all, since I only post pics of my cats, animals, wallpapers and so on... :laugh:
I can't help you with rooting, this is my firt Android phone, I bought it in April!
Alliance shield app bricked my phone...the owner (RRiVEN) banned me for asking about the permissions his app uses and he got butthurt and banned my account and ip address knowing it would soft brick my phone if i factory reset it with all the apps I disabled and now I can't remove the spyware/malware infected app or recover my device back to factory settings...him and his app destroyed my brand new 1200 dollar s21 ultra
Wow. I used this app and I didn't get my phone blocked. Maybe the problem is something else? Re-record everything on your phone.
Maxxx17 said:
Wow. I used this app and I didn't get my phone blocked. Maybe the problem is something else? Re-record everything on your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You didnt get you phone hacked using this trash app because you didnt question the owner of the app about the shady invasive malicious permissions it uses ...smh
Also this app proxys all your data and activity thru his server....the required sign up and login for the app to work is the first dead giveaway and a huge red flag
Lol...the owner of this app doesnt even use ssl for his server or app...its all tsl...unencrypted...lol...poor fella has no clue whos monitoring and accessing his server and network now...smh...this app wont be around much longer...i promise ...lol
HELLFISH420 said:
You didnt get you phone hacked using this trash app because you didnt question the owner of the app about the shady invasive malicious permissions it uses ...smh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may be right. Be careful next time.
yeah the owner is in trouble and he dont even know it....he even tried to push a zip file to my phone (script)
HELLFISH420 said:
Lol...the owner of this app doesnt even use ssl for his server or app...its all tsl...unencrypted...lol...poor fella has no clue whos monitoring and accessing his server and network now...smh...this app wont be around much longer...i promise ...lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't believe I missed this thread. Such gold in here.
Since you brought it up, you were banned after you made false claims about the Shield. We offered you MANY chances to prove your claims and you never did, just more talk and more claims and never any proof. Which I expect you will do here, can't wait I have my popcorn ready.
My favorite part is where you think SSL is encrypted and TLS isn't. Protip: SSL is insecure and shouldn't be used, ever. But don't take my word for it. Take Cloudflare's, one of the experts on this - https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/ssl/what-is-ssl/
As far as the shield not being around much longer, well that is also wrong, still going strong - never got an email or call from my Samsung rep like you said I would. You sure you were talking to Samsung and they said they were shutting us down?
The dots in Gmail, nothing to do with my script (Android doesn't run scripts, it runs Java FYI) Dots in Gmail don't do anything, once again don't take my word for it take Google's, you know, the owner of Gmail - https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7436150?hl=en
We block dots in Gmail because it gives spammers/scammers unlimited email addresses. [email protected] gets blocked register again with [email protected] same email inbox. That one gets banned, repeat with another .
The claim of a zip file being pushed to a device is flat out false. You made that claim and never produced the zip file, or evidence it came from the Shield.
A quick check will prove the Shield couldn't do it. We don't ask for or want the Storage permissions. Without them we can't access, add, delete, or create any file outside our apps protected folder. Unless you are suggesting we are using a zero day Android exploit to push a zip file to your device (zip files don't execute so why would we do that in the first place?)
The claim that we proxy all of your traffic through my servers is easily debunked. If that were the case you would see every site using HTTPS throw a certificate error, (most apps won't work either) it is why you use HTTPS so you know if your connection is being hijacked.
We are also confused what shady malicious permissions you are talking about. Android defines the permissions and you either request to use them or not. Once requested the user must grant ones that can cause harm to your device, like storage (once again we don't ask for, we don't want it).
If you have made it this far I will tell you our theory why Hellfish is so bent on spreading lies. He/she used the Shield to disable some critical system apps and bricked their device. Mad, which we would also be, they reached out to us where we informed them sorry nothing we can do now, it is bricked. They also disabled safe mode and factory reset. Once again we have warnings stating be careful what you disable and to understand what you are doing.
Enraged they started spreading lies and when called out they doubled down, and tripled down until we banned them. We have our limits.
The best part, and we saved the login logs, is not even a day later Hellfish was logging in to the app on a S21 ultra. Guess you found a way to get it working. When confronted more lies were spread and that account was banned. (We kept finding your alt accounts because you kept having the name Hellfish in them. We figured after the first alt was banned you would figure it out, but you made it too easy to find you. I gave up looking for you after the fourth alt account was banned, if you want to use the app and keep bricking your phone go for it)
If you haven't noticed we don't bow to pressure or are PC. You mess up and blame us we call you on it, you either own up to your mistake or get banned. If that means I have social problem then ok, fine by me, I sleep just fine at night.
Including screenshot of the Shield having no permissions, most games have more permissions than we do.
lmao...80-90% of what you said is straight up lies...you did all sorts of messed up stuff...hell you even hacked my discord and changed my password...then when my team bypassed your malicious app login you sent me emails threatening me and saying i broke laws and all sorts of dumb sh** ...you know what your doing is wrong....alot of other people see and know what your doing...you log passwords...your app has multiple permissions...exodus and other online checkers
riven you wouldnt by any chance be running a bitcoin mining scam would ya? ...lol....you run scripts and exe. files thru chrome remotely...i seen it with my own eyes...stop denying it...you know all bs aside i was actually nice and trying to help but you got butthurt when i showed the true app permissions to the whole world to see...as far as whats already been done is done...mark my words ...your app WILL NOT BE AROUND FOREVER
you couldnt pay me to use your malicious app .....lol...since my run with you ive already compiled and built my own disabler app ...and guess what..it requires no internet connection...no logins ...no permissions of any kind..has no trackers or anayltics ...and its 100% free..unlike your bitcoin mining app/alliance shield app...lmao.
oh yeah one last thing [email protected]
RRiVEN said:
I can't believe I missed this thread. Such gold in here.
Since you brought it up, you were banned after you made false claims about the Shield. We offered you MANY chances to prove your claims and you never did, just more talk and more claims and never any proof. Which I expect you will do here, can't wait I have my popcorn ready.
My favorite part is where you think SSL is encrypted and TLS isn't. Protip: SSL is insecure and shouldn't be used, ever. But don't take my word for it. Take Cloudflare's, one of the experts on this - https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/ssl/what-is-ssl/
As far as the shield not being around much longer, well that is also wrong, still going strong - never got an email or call from my Samsung rep like you said I would. You sure you were talking to Samsung and they said they were shutting us down?
The dots in Gmail, nothing to do with my script (Android doesn't run scripts, it runs Java FYI) Dots in Gmail don't do anything, once again don't take my word for it take Google's, you know, the owner of Gmail - https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7436150?hl=en
We block dots in Gmail because it gives spammers/scammers unlimited email addresses. [email protected] gets blocked register again with [email protected] same email inbox. That one gets banned, repeat with another .
The claim of a zip file being pushed to a device is flat out false. You made that claim and never produced the zip file, or evidence it came from the Shield.
A quick check will prove the Shield couldn't do it. We don't ask for or want the Storage permissions. Without them we can't access, add, delete, or create any file outside our apps protected folder. Unless you are suggesting we are using a zero day Android exploit to push a zip file to your device (zip files don't execute so why would we do that in the first place?)
The claim that we proxy all of your traffic through my servers is easily debunked. If that were the case you would see every site using HTTPS throw a certificate error, (most apps won't work either) it is why you use HTTPS so you know if your connection is being hijacked.
We are also confused what shady malicious permissions you are talking about. Android defines the permissions and you either request to use them or not. Once requested the user must grant ones that can cause harm to your device, like storage (once again we don't ask for, we don't want it).
If you have made it this far I will tell you our theory why Hellfish is so bent on spreading lies. He/she used the Shield to disable some critical system apps and bricked their device. Mad, which we would also be, they reached out to us where we informed them sorry nothing we can do now, it is bricked. They also disabled safe mode and factory reset. Once again we have warnings stating be careful what you disable and to understand what you are doing.
Enraged they started spreading lies and when called out they doubled down, and tripled down until we banned them. We have our limits.
The best part, and we saved the login logs, is not even a day later Hellfish was logging in to the app on a S21 ultra. Guess you found a way to get it working. When confronted more lies were spread and that account was banned. (We kept finding your alt accounts because you kept having the name Hellfish in them. We figured after the first alt was banned you would figure it out, but you made it too easy to find you. I gave up looking for you after the fourth alt account was banned, if you want to use the app and keep bricking your phone go for it)
If you haven't noticed we don't bow to pressure or are PC. You mess up and blame us we call you on it, you either own up to your mistake or get banned. If that means I have social problem then ok, fine by me, I sleep just fine at night.
Including screenshot of the Shield having no permissions, most games have more permissions than we do.
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one last thing fool...stop putting ip grabber links in the comments...your just asking for trouble ...lmao
HELLFISH420 said:
lmao...80-90% of what you said is straight up lies...you did all sorts of messed up stuff...hell you even hacked my discord and changed my password...then when my team bypassed your malicious app login you sent me emails threatening me and saying i broke laws and all sorts of dumb sh** ...you know what your doing is wrong....alot of other people see and know what your doing...you log passwords...your app has multiple permissions...exodus and other online checkers
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All I see is more accusations and ZERO proof. Typical Hellfish.
Where is the poof I log passwords? I will happily give you any version of the Shield going back 2 years. Decompile it and show me the password grabber, or exodus, or anything else. You can't so I won't be holding my breath.
It has multiple permissions yes, but most are so the Knox features work. You know what permissions I don't request? Storage.
HELLFISH420 said:
riven you wouldnt by any chance be running a bitcoin mining scam would ya? ...lol....you run scripts and exe. files thru chrome remotely...i seen it with my own eyes...stop denying it...you know all bs aside i was actually nice and trying to help but you got butthurt when i showed the true app permissions to the whole world to see...as far as whats already been done is done...mark my words ...your app WILL NOT BE AROUND FOREVER
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Once again more accusations and yet zero proof. Same offer still stands, show me the malicious permissions, what ever that means.
Since we banned you for lies it has been half a year. My app is still here. Still waiting for it to be taken down. My guess is another 6 months will pass and we will still be here.
You were nice and we were nice untill we asked for proof about your wild claims, then it changed. Suddenly we were the bad guys. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
HELLFISH420 said:
you couldnt pay me to use your malicious app .....lol...since my run with you ive already compiled and built my own disabler app ...and guess what..it requires no internet connection...no logins ...no permissions of any kind..has no trackers or anayltics ...and its 100% free..unlike your bitcoin mining app/alliance shield app...lmao.
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We are happy for you, really are, no sarcasm, but once again you don't understand why we have the login.
All it takes is reading our website feature list to see why, but hey you compare apples to carrots.
Also you better hope Samsung doesn't find out you are using Knox to disable system apps or your key will be revoked.
If it uses Samsung Knox, then it needs an internet connection, so excuse me If I don't believe you 100%
HELLFISH420 said:
oh yeah one last thing [email protected]
one last thing fool...stop putting ip grabber links in the comments...your just asking for trouble ...lmao
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What are you even talking about? I really think you need to get help, your infatuation of us is weird and how you think everything we do is hacking you.
Trust me, if I had a zero day (which I don't) I wouldn't use it to hack random people via my legit app we worked 5 years on and almost half a million downloads. I would sell it for $100,000 and then find the next one.
But hey, you think whatever you want.
Edit:
After reading my comment again do you think the Cloudflare or Google link is an ipgrabber? I take it you never heard of Cloudflare or Google, interesting.
Cloudflare has a market cap of 65 Billion and Google 1.99 Trillion, very huge respected tech companies.
Hi Rriven, I just heard about your app and was surprised that it involved using Samsung Knox. That sparked my curiousity, so I did an some analyzing and I have a curious question. Does your connection with the US Military/Army help you create this app. I did see that the DoD (Department of Defense) has approved and worked with Samsung, Knox specifically in creating a phone for the Military. And according to your LinkedIn profile, it shows that you have DoD clearance.
Suprnova84 said:
Hi Rriven, I just heard about your app and was surprised that it involved using Samsung Knox. That sparked my curiousity, so I did an some analyzing and I have a curious question. Does your connection with the US Military/Army help you create this app. I did see that the DoD (Department of Defense) has approved and worked with Samsung, Knox specifically in creating a phone for the Military. And according to your LinkedIn profile, it shows that you have DoD clearance.
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Any legit company can apply to use Samsung Knox, which I did.
My connection with the Military has nothing to do with the app. The Shieldx was created in my spare time using my company (RRiVEN LLC) that I set up as a College project before I joined the Military.
Knox is a very powerful system that the Shield only scratches the surface of what it can do. I am not surprised that the Military uses it.
This hellfish character is a troll. Shield is a great app and works well. Only I don't stick with it because there is still no way to add large hosts from online sources easily. Once that happens, I'm switching. Until then, adhell3 is the best solution.
Wow that war was awesome to read. Go Alliance Shield X whoo whoo !!! lol
this issue has been resolved....mods please delete this entire post
I'm not related to hellfish or whatever, just saw a recommendation in the internet - app to control running services on Samsung devices, well that was quite an experience.
This is just ridiculous software, probably author is a follower of well known Terry Davis (god bless his soul) with his well known TempleOS. IT IS JUST FREAKING RIDICULOUS! never ever install that crap and stay away... just a complete nonsense beyond imagination, you may get a taste of it just browsing through official website, which was already very much suspicions, but I registered and installed anyways... mother of god...
also author's weak excuses about dot in emails? WHAT ON EARTH???? have you ever seen a single rnd generator... do you have a slightest idea how email works, any understanding of modern spam\antispam techniques? zero, zilch... my god... sheeez....
HELLFISH420 said:
this issue has been resolved....mods please delete this entire post
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How did you resolved the issue? pls update me about the solution so we can also try..
HELLFISH420 said:
you couldnt pay me to use your malicious app .....lol...since my run with you ive already compiled and built my own disabler app ...and guess what..it requires no internet connection...no logins ...no permissions of any kind..has no trackers or anayltics ...and its 100% free..unlike your bitcoin mining app/alliance shield app...lmao.
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also how can I get this software of yours? Have you uploaded this in the forum or playstore or somewhere else? Please update me...