[Q] Q:Talktime and data usage counter? - Windows Phone 7 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

[Q] Q:Talktime and data usage counter? - Windows Phone 7 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

is there any application for talktime and data usage logger/counter for Mango??

Would be nice to have this. Sms counter, talk time counter and data usage counter. Even my old Sony Ericsson has this simple options but this superior smartphones really suck at some basic options.

I would build it right away
I (and probably a dozen other devs) would start build such an app right away, if only Microsoft made available the APIs needed for such an app to be possible.
If there was a way to query the information, an app to display and sum times would be rather trivial indeed.
Now, it's just a dream and maybe something for unlocked phones running "homebrew" software...

Well, on T-Mobile (at least in the US) there's a Marketplace app that does this, but it gets it by querying T-Mobile's data, not by collecting the data on the phone itself...
Maybe something similar exists, or could be created, for other carriers? There's probably a website taht most carriers offer this info on, and the app could check that site with your credentials and report for you. A really cool version might even use a live tile to update your remaining usage periodically.

i have seen a post about nokias new app that right about to come out. it has a call duration history, incoming/outgoing calls, summary, and the same for data transfer. i've seen some pictures but i dont remember how they will call it. but if nokia has this app, why would the other wp7 lack of this feature

Well, the data is almost certainly available within the phone *somewhere* and the problem is just a matter of finding it. Mind you, I'd be very interested in pulling apart that Nokia app anyhow, because I'm not sure that the normal sandbox would give enough permissions to access such data. If it doesn't, but the app still pulls the data from the phone directly, that means it's using a high-privilege Nokia firmware component (probably a driver), and that means one more potential avenue for interop-unlock.

GoodDayToDie said:
Well, the data is almost certainly available within the phone *somewhere* and the problem is just a matter of finding it. Mind you, I'd be very interested in pulling apart that Nokia app anyhow, because I'm not sure that the normal sandbox would give enough permissions to access such data. If it doesn't, but the app still pulls the data from the phone directly, that means it's using a high-privilege Nokia firmware component (probably a driver), and that means one more potential avenue for interop-unlock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah the problems are in the permissions we have today. but i have an rooted htc 7 pro and looked some folders inside the windows folder and some registry i couldn't see before with an dev.unlock. i have found such data, or the triggers for the data, some named incoming calls, outgoing calls, and so on, i have found that but i dont have an clue where the data is thats just for developers, they get it, and i would love to test this nokia app, i have seen it and it is very usefull!

GoodDayToDie said:
Well, the data is almost certainly available within the phone *somewhere* and the problem is just a matter of finding it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would it be feasible that so far Microsoft itself does not bother to keep count about calls and their durations in stock WP7, and that for the said Nokia app the driver component not only hands the info to the app but does the counting as well?

I don't think there's an App that can show the data usage other than those which fetches data directly from the service provider and so is dependent on that. Other than that I don't think any such app exists, but sure it would be great if an app for that is made.

lamborg said:
I don't think there's an App that can show the data usage other than those which fetches data directly from the service provider and so is dependent on that. Other than that I don't think any such app exists, but sure it would be great if an app for that is made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but i saw the app with my own eyes, it was in development, and they said it is right about to come out... it is now a week ago.
---------- Post added at 01:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 AM ----------
here i found a link to the post i read...
http://www.coolsmartphone.com/2012/...ia-exclusive-app-looks-like-a-data-usage-app/
"Well prepare to uncross those fingers as it is rumoured that the next Lumia exclusive app will be a data tracker." and i think the screenshots are not all that the app has, i think they put also something in to limit you data. example: you have a dataplan of 500mb it remembers you if you are near 500mb, and you can track it precise. has anybody more info about his app? i found only that what i read last week.
---------- Post added at 01:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 AM ----------
more screenshots here
http://wp7lab.com/news/nokia-usage-...m=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+wp7lab+(wp7lab.com)

@rbrunner7: Pretty unlikely that the OS isn't tracking this info anywhere, but I agree that the Nokia driver may be keeping track itself anyhow. It's actually a significant number of different areas that need to be tracked, though: you've got the various cellular data links (2G/3G/4G/whatever, plus basic GSM if that's even measured anymore) for data, you've got SMS (which goes on a sideband of the voice channel, of some SMS are free and some aren't), you've got MMS (which send notifications by SMS but content by cellular data, and is typically not charged as data usage), and of course you've got cellular call time. If they're *just* tracking data usage (presumably by tapping into the network socket interface, and checking which connection each socket binds to so that it doesn't also count WiFi and such), that's quite possible if still a little complicated.

Related

Taintdroid...android's duff security model

Worrying article on how apps are using personal information.
www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/30/suspicious_android_apps/
I'm sick that they had to go too such lengths to find out. We need a better net architecture to enable a proper firewall to work.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Also, app naming FAIL!

Well, since they only tested 30 apps and won't release the names of the ones they tested, only saying that they are "the most popular", personally I don't buy it.
And the information these apps are sending out is primarily geolocation. Well, no ****. If an app wants your location and you don't think it should have it, it's either using it for ads or you should decline to install the app and just send an email to the dev asking him why he needs that information.

tjhart85 said:
Well, since they only tested 30 apps and won't release the names of the ones they tested, only saying that they are "the most popular", personally I don't buy it.
And the information these apps are sending out is primarily geolocation. Well, no ****. If an app wants your location and you don't think it should have it, it's either using it for ads or you should decline to install the app and just send an email to the dev asking him why he needs that information.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed... geolocation is pretty obviously straight forward. I don't know about the 'transmissing every 30 seconds' thing though.
Any thoughts ont he transmitting sim card and IMEI info?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnLujX1Dw4Y
Also discussed here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=795702
With explanation where to get it from http://www.appanalysis.org/

A very well-written reply by "Steven Knox" on The Register, demonstrating how this 'research' is simply a pile of intentionally-misleading statistical rubbish:
By selecting only from applications that access both personal data and the internet, they're overstating the significance of their study by about 3x. Furthermore, their summaries blur this distinction unnecessarily.
Specifically, their FAQ says "We studied just over 8% of the top 50 popular free applications in each category that had access to privacy sensitive information in order to get a sense of the behaviors of these applications." Since there were 22 categories at the time they did the study, that would imply (22*50=1,100 * 8% =) 88 applications. However, they actually only tested 30, because of the 1,100 top 50 applications only (from the PDF) "roughly a third of the applications (358 of the 1,100 applications) require Internet permissions along with permissions to access
either location, camera, or audio data." -- meaning that the other 742 apps don't have the necessary permissions to play badly. The clause "..that had access to privacy sensitive information in order to get a sense of the behaviors of these applications." from the FAQ is grammatically ambiguous in this case (it may refer to "applications" or "category"), and not specific enough to indicate that over 2/3 of the applications are (relatively) safe by dint of not having the necessary permissions.
They also didn't include in their study apps from 10 of the 22 categories, but they don't explain whether that was due to a) there not being any or enough applications in those categories that required internet and personal data permissions, b) a conscious choice to focus on the other 12 categories, or c) the results of random selection (with an explanation of why they did not use a stratified sample).
Once you factor back in the applications they ignored, the numbers don't look quite so bad. Assuming their sample was representative, 2/3 of the 358, or about 239 applications of the top 1,100 of the time use personal data suspiciously. That's about 21.7% or just over 1 in 5 -- still significant, but a far cry from 2 out of 3. In fact, the worst case maximum is actually 358 of 1,100 or just under 1 in 3 (32.45%) because they are as mentioned above the only ones that actually acquire the permissions necessary to do anything "suspicious".
I understand why both the researchers and the reporter used the 2/3 figure -- you all believe you have to sell the point as hard as possible*. But the real story is that it's likely that at least 1 in 5 Android Apps use private data "suspiciously" -- and that number is still high enough to cause concern and to justify the further use of tools like TaintDroid. It's a pity you didn't trust the facts enough to avoid the unnecessary sensationalism.
*I am assuming, here, that Mr. Goodin did actually read and digest the paper as I did, rather than simply picking out the figures from the study, the FAQ, or a press release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

good spot. But one in ten woolf be too many. The point is we should have more fine grained control and transparency off what apps do over the net, and we can't, by design.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

We need to develop a shim that reports modified IMEI/SIM data for different apps. IMO, very few apps need that information. We may not be able to keep all those apps from sending our private information, but we can make that information useless if it appears that we all are using the same IMEI/SIM...

patp said:
...The point is we should have more fine grained control and transparency off what apps do over the net...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed....

if you are rooted. With Root Explorer go to /data/system/ and open accounts.db you might be surprised what you find in it... Some people it will be fine for but mine it shows my exchange email and password in plain text and a few others show up as plain text has well...Its not geo they are worried about (for the most part) and...this file has been known about for awhile
Don't worry though unless your downloaded android specific virus holding apps you wont have any problem. And if your getting all your apps legally through the market then its no big deal =) and if your pirating them...well I don't feel bad for you...

echoside said:
if you are rooted. With Root Explorer go to /data/system/ and open accounts.db you might be surprised what you find in it... Some people it will be fine for but mine it shows my exchange email and password in plain text and a few others show up as plain text has well...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opened it, my accounts are there, but no passwords....

rori~ said:
Opened it, my accounts are there, but no passwords....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my gmail is somesort of encrypted but doesnt look that great.
Exchange shows up
facebook doesnt show anything at all aha
Thats why I said some might not have anything. Awhile back when I first heard about it one of my friends had two or three right there in plain English I didn't have a phone at the time to check...
Its been reported before but kind of just brushed over no biggy. To go real conspiracy theorist....I think apple is submitting all these articles...

ButtonBoy said:
We need to develop a shim that reports modified IMEI/SIM data for different apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great idea

The source code/instructions for TaintDroid are now out:
http://appanalysis.org/download.html

Anybody found a (recent) kernel with built-in TaintDroid-support?

[Q] Any simple/no-frills gps tracker which sends data to own website?

Hi,
Does anyone know if there's any GPS Tracking software which can send httppost data (or other form of data transfer) to a custom website?
I want it to send the regular gps data, such as Date/Time, Longitude, Latitude, Height, Speed and Heading (or whatever is available).
I can write my own web software in php/mysql - but I haven't got a clue about how to write my own android app.
I don't want any fancy maps displayed, I just want the software to acquire gps fix, and send it at user set intervals (example every 1 minute) to my own custom web application.
I had previously been using software on my old Nokia 5800 which sent it to a 3rd party server and I could import the data via xml (see here: http://madstu.net/tracker/ ) but I haven't found any such solutions for Android yet.
Any help would be appreciated
Stu.

You could probably do this very simply with one service and an activity to set the interval and some status. You should look at some android tutorials and you can probably do it in less than an hour.

thanks, yes this is what I've been learning. I created a hello world app by following a tutorial, but I'm afraid that might just be my limit!
Sent from my Defy using Tapatalk

You can use Run.gps for your job.
You can customize it to send data to custom server. In section 6.2.1 in the manual explains how you do it.
Regards

Thanks, I've been trying this since this morning and it seems to work on and off, I will continue to trial it though until I find something better/simpler

Never heard of run.gps, but I do this exact thing in Tasker. I am a long time user of TrackMe, a Windows Mobile tracking client, however I didn't really use the client that much but I've made extensive use out of the web server that went along with it. Data goes into it from several possible sources, and I have several things that extra data out of it (Google Earth to visualize, even geotagging photographs, etc).
I have a long outstanding "offline mode" that's missing from its functionality, ie: you don't want to upload, or it fails to upload so it stores the data for later and uploads it when it can. I really want to put this in some day, but it's semi-complicated and honestly editing complex tasks on my phone is tedious Otherwise it's fully functional and for me works great. Let me know if you're interested.

Yes I'd be very interested in this, please.
Like you said, the "offline mode" would be awesome too, I'd previously used Viewranger on my old Nokia 5800 which had this offline option and worked well.
Cheers

MadStu said:
Yes I'd be very interested in this, please.
Like you said, the "offline mode" would be awesome too, I'd previously used Viewranger on my old Nokia 5800 which had this offline option and worked well.
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you using the TrackMe web server? Otherwise, what I have won't be of all that much use.

khaytsus said:
Are you using the TrackMe web server? Otherwise, what I have won't be of all that much use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, But I have my own server. How is the data sent? I can customise my web software to receive whichever variables are sent.

MadStu said:
No, But I have my own server. How is the data sent? I can customise my web software to receive whichever variables are sent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fairly straightforward, API calls.. Not really documented anywhere I'm aware of, but here's an example.. But it could be easier to adapt the Tasker profile rather than your softwae?
/trackme/requests.php?a=upload&u=user&p=password&lat=dd.ddddddd&long=dd.ddddddd&do=2011-02-06%2009:10:00&tn=Tripname_Date&sp=0.0&alt=279.0&ang=0&db=8&comments=Optional%20Comments&bs=98
So while it's not difficult, I'd say if you already have a POST/GET type API there, it's probably easier to adapt the Tasker profiles. If you're still interested, I'll export and sanitize and put 'em here.

Yeah I could just edit to match mine. I'm very interested in your sanitized profile(s) though. I've been playing with it and can't get it to work.
Thanks

After some more playing I've done it
Thanks for letting me know about this. Works well and I've got to start automatically when I open up the awesome MM Tracker app

Recommend me some Apps, Please

I'm swapping from Android to Windows Phone, and was hoping if anyone is bored enough to read this they might suggest some Windows Phone Apps that might suit my needs.
In no way do I expect anyone that hops in to respond to each type, or google around for me, but I expect I'm not the first person to make the Android -> Windows phone swap, so maybe some of you will have a quick idea of ones to try out. You don't need to spend a lot of time explaining every app, if you're busy. Every platform is different though, so rather than spend 10 hours looking for something that everyone in the community already knows, I thought I would just toss out some quick questions.
1. RSS feeds. On Android I use gReader Pro. It's a pretty basic app that allows easy setup for RSS feeds and syncs them with your google reader account. Not very exciting, but it's easy to use because my feeds are already set up via google, so a decent app that can do the same would be nice.
2. Google Voice. I'd like to make and receive texts, as well as make calls on wifi (receiving calls isn't a big deal, but would be a plus). I downloaded GoVoice, which seems like it will be pretty decent, but am open to suggsetions.
3. Podcasts. I used Doggcatcher on Android, which allows you to stream, download + save, and sync podcasts. It has a decent search function to help you get started.
4. Tasker. This one is more difficult to explain, but essentially it allows you to program a set of tasks, like a macro function. Essentially I have it set up for "Off" (as in data/wifi/bluetooth/gps/gsm disabled), "Data" (same as off but wifi enabled), "Loud" (same as data but with notifications and media volumes all the way up), and "Car" (same as Loud but wifi off and speakerphone and GPS enabled). Basically I use this to change the state of the GPS, WIFI, and volumes, so that I can quickly switch a number of settings at once. Great app, if you have some patience and have an Android kicking around.
5. Astrid Tasks. A pretty basic reminder app. I'm sure there are plenty of these for Windows Phone, but any suggestion would great. If it can store backups to the computer, or sync with a cloud based system, that would be a plus.
6*. Something to show running applications quickly. I'm not sure if this is actually an issue for Windows Phone, but sometimes apps go "rogue" on Android, so being able to make sure that a particular app isn't a battery drain would be nice. I was using System Panel on Android. If this isn't needed, disregard the question.
7. A good alarm app. I was using Gentle Alarm on Android, which has a widget to show you the next alarm that will go off, and allows easy creation of various alarms, which can be set for audible, vibration, specific days of the week to repeat on, etc. You can also ensure that alarms will always be audible, regardless of if everything else is muted, which is nice for at night when you don't need an email waking you up, but need to make sure the alarm is at maximum volume in the morning.
8. Anything else you can think of that is a must have for daily use. I'm a student and don't really have a lot of time to play with the phone for games, but hey, we all have to pass the time every once in a while.
9. Onenote. I like how this app syncs easily, but I can't view my handwritten notes that I write on my tablet. Is there a workaround that allows you to see these?
------ I'm only using this Lumia 710 on WIFI, essentially as a PDA + GPS, so anything handy that can prevent battery drain is a plus, as I don't require GPS to constantly be on, and I certainly don't need phone/data(non-wifi) to constantly be on.
In short, I appreciate any input you might have, even if it's only for one of the things I have listed. The phone seems great in general, and had most of the important things already installed (the email, calendar, navigation, office, etc., is fantastic as is, which is a great bonus compared to Android, where I had to use 3rd party apps for most of the core aspects).
Regards,
--bb

Weave
Skype
Music and Video with Zune
Not possible
Ask Ziggy
not needed
Default alarm
Board Express Pro
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
---------- Post added at 06:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:14 PM ----------
Nokia Drive
Crackle
Nokia Creative Studio
Contract Killer
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
---------- Post added at 06:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 PM ----------
Box
SkyDrive
MetroTube
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

pvt_nemesis said:
Weave
Skype
Music and Video with Zune
Not possible
Ask Ziggy
not needed
Default alarm
Board Express Pro
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
---------- Post added at 06:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:14 PM ----------
Nokia Drive
Crackle
Nokia Creative Studio
Contract Killer
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
---------- Post added at 06:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 PM ----------
Box
SkyDrive
MetroTube
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for all of the suggestions. That should keep me busy for quite awhile. :good:

Try also fantasia painter for photo editor. Is awesome and free. The only app i am missing since switching from wp7 to android
Sent from my HTC Explorer A310e using xda app-developers app

Before I get into my list, I'm just going to run down how apps and multi tasking work on WP7 in case you don't already know.
#1: No app can truly run in the background. The only way to get an app to continue running is either to have it up and prevent the screen from turning off, or (if supported by the app) allow it to run under the lockscreen, which means when you press the power button, only the screen turns off, the phone does not enter a sleep state.
-----------------The exception to this rule is when an app is playing music. If the app dev has done it correctly, he should have handed the music playing off to the system, so once you set up the music source in app, you should be able to minimize it and use the next/previous/play/pause controls. In fact you can even go to grooveshark's beta html5 in internet explorer; HTML5 can plug in to this system media playback! I was very excited to learn that. But at least on grooveshark, next/previous controls don't work.
#2: HOWEVER each app can have a "daemon" which is essentially a set of tasks that are run periodically by the system (minimum of every half hour). So if you use google latitude, latitude apps will only be able to update your position every half hour (or at longer intervals, but no shorter). This system of background daemons is actually very very good as it encourages unique thinking from the developer side, and still gives the user the benefits of true multi tasking without the battery drainage. What a daemon can do isn't that limited, but it's the fact that no internet connection can remain active in the background that poses a lot of problems (for example, IRC clients cannot have multi tasking for this reason). Since things can only run every half hour, you don't have to worry about things like turning off your gps, since nothing is allowed to just turn on the GPS and keep it on.
#3 : Also there's still push, of course. Lemme break that down for you: push notifications can either be through the live tile (rather than having a background daemon update the tile, things are pushed to it immediately as they arrive), or push can be used through statusbar notifications. One unfortunate oversight in this system is that if you have an app that you do not pin to the start menu, and if it has a notification and you did not hear it... there is no list of missed notifications. This doesn't come into play that often; for me it only happens with eBay, where I don't want to bother having that on my start screen but I might miss some alerts.
#4: Battery Saver mode is YOUR FRIEND. You can get nearly another day out of your phone (or I can with my Titan) when battery saver kicks in. You can enable it so that it turns on when the battery is low (%20), or manually. However, it disables all background daemons and push notification in order to save battery.
#5: Multi tasking and switching between apps. Hold down the back button to see the list of the last several apps you used (or in the case of my unlocked ROM, all of the apps you have used since boot). When you minimize an app (press the start button), it gets "dehydrated" which means it's just suspended to RAM. It works like you'd expect; start typing something in one app, switch over to another to look something up and switch back to the first to resume typing. To remove an app from the list, or "exit" the app (since it isn't actually running the only thing this does is remove clutter or perhaps free up some slots), you "back" out of them. Press the back button until the app goes away.
One of the reasons, in my opinion, that windows 8 is getting a lot of negative flack is because people don't know that live tiles are good. It doesn't help that, last time I checked, there were no useful live tile apps in the 8 marketplace yet. So frustrating! People hate what they don't understand, because hating on the internet is the standard state of existence. I encourage you to think about what you do on the internet every time you sit down on your computer, and see if you can find an app with live tile to do it for you. For me, I had a routine of checking my email(s), going through a lot of webcomics, reading news feeds, etc. That was my daily routine. Now with WP7, I have each aspect of my routine as a live tile, so I can literally replace that entire process with just looking at the start screen.
The other thing about live tiles and metro that people fail to understand is that active push notifications, where unnecessary are BAD, for a few different reasons. Push notifications are "active" and live tiles are "passive". This is because live tiles do not make any noise or otherwise prompt you to look at them; they are simply there and deliver content when you pull out your phone. Let me put this in perspective: say I pull out my phone to look up something on wikipedia. I can see that I have 2 new emails, some new RSS articles and a facebook notification. Number 1: I don't feel the urge to go and clear the unread count of all of these things, as I would if they were all aggregated in the statusbar like on android (because you need that statusbar for things, and if it's cluttered and you don't keep up on it, it quickly fills up and becomes overwhelming). I can leave them alone for now and go to wikipedia. Now if this were an android/IOS device, I would have gotten an audible notification for each of those three things, and I would have taken time out of whatever I was doing IN LIFE to tend to my phone.
Some points about stressors here (and when I say stressors, I don't mean overwhelming stress you can feel, but stress in the clinical sense, which is objective): having your phone beep at you constantly stresses you; for most people it's difficult to put their phone out of their mind until they have seen what the notification was. This is not good.
Moreover, feeling the need to go and clear unread counts/managing your statusbar is also somewhat of a stressor; if it starts overflowing you'll either learn to not use things that create notifications (somewhat limiting your experience with a smartphone), give up all hope and never look at the statusbar again, or just clear it out and miss out on things you wouldn't have if the information was presented in an orderly fashion.
Live tiles, being passive, are also more efficient in terms of time spent on the phone and your phone's battery life. Notice how in my example, I observed the new content only when I was already pulling out my phone to do something else. With things aggregating in bulk, I can view them in bulk at points of the day where I was already on my phone. This is opposed to pulling out my phone every 15 minutes because something new happened... which wastes time pulling your phone out of your pocket many times a day, wastes battery when turning the screen on/off many times a day, and if you use wifi; wastes even more battery when the wifi radio is turned on/off sporadically many times a day.
So yes, live tiles are an objectively less stressful approach to mobile devices and less distracting from tasks at hand. The same concepts can be applied to windows 8; rather than having popup notifications for all your facebook, email, rss, etc bombard you while you're trying to write a paper... all of that information is silently aggregated for you in the background.
------------The List-------------------
For alarms,
627.AM
Built in Alarm app.
For task / project management
Tasks by telerik
Or just use the built in calendar app
Or use Onenote and Pin your task list to the start screen.
For RSS
Wonder Reader hands down, none of the other google reader clients are quite as fully functional and polished.
Fuse is pretty but I never got the hang of using it.
For Wifi Video calls
Tango. It's pretty limited in that the android and IOS client are updated with better features, and you can only call other people with tango... but the service itself is more efficient and more reliable than the skype app was last time I tried it. Moreover it supports push for accepting calls, something skype doesn't. Also I like the concept of not having "online / offline" states. You call someone, and they choose to answer it or not. Why would I need to log into a phone...
I used to take notes on a tablet at school, and ran into the same problem as you. Only solution I know of is to print your notes back into onenote. You'll have duplicates of everything unfortunately.
Podcast functionality is built in.
For random recommendations...
das Image (Better image search)
Image Map (Renders all of your pictures on a map based on GPS loc info)
Dynamic Background (Unlock) (Updates the lockscreen picture every half hour choosing randomly from a pool of selected images)
Battery Status (Unlock) (Live tile for current battery percent, also tracks battery usage and graphs it for you)
EnClock (there is no stopwatch built in to WP7, and you never know when you need one)
eBay
HandyScan (Helps you take good pictures of papers, backs up to skydrive. Better to keep documents in here than with regular pictures).
Keep Alive (by jaxbot, it prevents wifi from turning off)
Nokia Drive (Unlock unless you get a nokia device)
MetroPaper (Read it later / pocket)
Metrotube + Supertube (youtube apps. 1 is awesome, 2 lets you download videos and even create offline "music" playlists)
Photo2cloud (back up full res photos to skydrive independent of PC)
Supreme Shortcuts (Unlock) (Lets you pin any setting page to the start screen)
WeatherLive (There are plenty of other weather apps... but weatherlive works, it's incredibly thorough, updates live tile using GPS location, is pretty, etc)
Zite (Gives you news articles based on google reader feeds and who you follow in twitter, good for every time I go to the toilet )
If you use IRC or SSH
The SSH Client Pro
TinyIRC
And now that you are a part of the WP community, you should invest in AND pin the live tiles of each to your start screen:
WPCentral
WMPoweruser
Games! I Don't like to play serious games on my phone; I like something I can whip out at any time and turn off at any time, no consequence. That said, I make an exception for the Final Fantasy updated / rerelease for WP7
COLLAPSE (Probably my favorite mobile game. It's an easy puzzle game, but satisfying to plow through at ludicrous speed. There are some very hard rounds with special conditions though.. story mode is dumb but it has unique challenges and you need to play through it to unlock all the quick play modes).
Final Fantasy
Wordament
Fruit Ninja
Dodonpachi Maximum (Genre: Bullet Hell. If you don't know what that means then try it before you buy it. If you love bullet hell; buy this. It's by CAVE).
Wizard's Choice (A casual text adventure).

link68759 said:
Lots of good info
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the detailed response!
I've started using Onenote as a to-do list, but I made a recent post as to why that's causing me problems (or so it seems).
I seem to be syncing everything from onenote, and my device has basically filled up overnight as it downloaded my files. Microsoft told me to contact Nokia about it, and then disconnected?
It seemed like a good plan to me as well. I don't really need to see detailed graphs and notes on the phone, just a couple simple folders.
I may just reset the phone and give the other apps you suggested a shot, and not connect with my microsoft live ID at all. I went from plenty of space on the device to none, in a matter of days.
I'm not sure if podcasts were an issue as well, and how it saves and deletes them. I only stored what I would consider a small amount, maybe 200 megs or less.
Nokia drive works great. It takes up a lot of space, but I have it on my feature phone as well, and the GPS acquisition time on the Lumia 710 blows away my E5-00, and my Droid X. It's just incredibly fast at locking in.
I'll do a reset tomorrow and give the other apps a shot, and try to avoid anything that could be crushing my storage. All I really need for storage is email, nokia drive, and basic apps/news/podcasts, which on my android (nav aside) shouldn't really take more than 1 gig of space. A few small games to pass the time, and some apps for productivity, and I should be back in business.
Unfortunately I can't seem to find a way to determine what is using X amount of space, so I'll have to do a full wipe and install items slowly, to sort it out.
There isn't a proper app to view this kind of thing, is there?
Regards,
--bb

I'll reply to your other thread about one note.
You can't not connect with your live ID if you plan to download apps unfortunately.
For viewing used space, Zune does divide it up for you, I don't remember how specific it gets but it should be divided into space used by music, videos, podcasts, apps. I don't think it's possible for an app to view usage, because each app is sandboxed; that is they have their own folder on the device and they are not allowed to leave it.
Nokia Drive shouldn't need to take up a lot of space; you can just download the maps of where you live and where you might possibly go spontaneously, as opposed to your whole country XD. Yeah I've had good luck with my phones and GPS, WP7 in general does an excellent job with GPS.
Oh I forgot to mention in my first post; WPCentral and WMPoweruser are good because they do a lot of app/game reviews, usually the reviews are on new apps in the market. This is pretty much the only way I discover new apps

link68759 said:
I'll reply to your other thread about one note.
You can't not connect with your live ID if you plan to download apps unfortunately.
For viewing used space, Zune does divide it up for you, I don't remember how specific it gets but it should be divided into space used by music, videos, podcasts, apps. I don't think it's possible for an app to view usage, because each app is sandboxed; that is they have their own folder on the device and they are not allowed to leave it.
Nokia Drive shouldn't need to take up a lot of space; you can just download the maps of where you live and where you might possibly go spontaneously, as opposed to your whole country XD. Yeah I've had good luck with my phones and GPS, WP7 in general does an excellent job with GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotcha!
I will look into setting up a new windows live account for OneNote to-do type lists. I know Office sometimes used to have issues with multiple live accounts on the same computer, in Windows 7, but I think that's mostly fixed now. I use google calendar anyways (to sync), so realistically it's not the end of the world for me to keep the accounts disconnected from my school Onenote live account.
I guess I synced all of Nokia North America at once (1.9 or so gigs of a download). I certainly don't need more than 20% of it. In fact, my whole state, now that I look at it, is only 36 megs.
Now that you've given some ideas of how to approach it, I'm liking this more than any of my other previous phones (iPhone, BB Bold, Droid X, etc). It needs some time to grow as an operating system, and Nokia really needs to put an LED notification light on future models [shakes tiny fist], but I think they're back in the game!
Thank you very much for all of your help.
//Edit: I read your other post responding to mine. I think you're right. I could probably do a wipe, use the same account, but move the basic to-do lists to a separate folder, pin them, and make sure to never ever open the school folder itself in Office on the phone. That sounds like it would work ok as well, as I must have opened a school folder that overwhelmed it and just started syncing massive amounts of pdf's, inking, and so on, along with the simple things.

I just wanted to also mention that all that you typed out would make for a great sticky. That's a ton of great info.
Thank you again for all of the feedback.
You made some excellent points about how smartphones add lots of unnecessary stresses when they're constantly distracting us with notifications, as well as how live tiles really help ease you into information you need, and information you might not, but are willing to take a brief glance at. I'm a big Windows 8 fan, and have used RP, RTM Pro (currently), and RTM enterprise. I think Live Tiles are fantastic, whether it's on my phone, my convertible laptop, or my desktop. I think you're absolutely correct about how people just don't quite understand how handy it will be yet.
//BTW: I bookmarked your post as a sort of "zen" explanation I can refer back to, or link to a friend, so they understand the unity and purposes in the next stage in Windows products.
///Afterthought: I still would like a notification LED on the phone, as long as it's customizable. On Android and Blackberry I would always disable the light for all of the nonsense things, but keep it enabled for things like a missed call (because that could be my son needing a ride, or something else that's important), or for a severe weather alert. Random emails would just have to wait until I turned on the screen.

Sorry to bump my own thread again, but I have a question about three of the apps that link68759 mentioned.
"Supreme Shortcuts (Unlock) (Lets you pin any setting page to the start screen)"
"Battery Status (Unlock) (Live tile for current battery percent, also tracks battery usage and graphs it for you)"
"Keep Alive (by jaxbot, it prevents wifi from turning off)"
By "unlock" I'm assuming he meant an unlocked bootloader, and not locked to a cellular carrier? I did the basic test today, and mine appears to be locked, which is a shame because both of those functions would be great.
As far as "Keep Alive" goes, I can't seem to find that specific app/dev combo in the market. I don't use 3g/4g data on this phone, or any phone anymore, so is that an app that is better than keeping the scanning on, or is it a battery drain? I'm just not sure I follow the concept, because I can't find a description of it.
Regards,
--bb

bladebarrier said:
Sorry to bump my own thread again, but I have a question about three of the apps that link68759 mentioned.
"Supreme Shortcuts (Unlock) (Lets you pin any setting page to the start screen)"
"Battery Status (Unlock) (Live tile for current battery percent, also tracks battery usage and graphs it for you)"
"Keep Alive (by jaxbot, it prevents wifi from turning off)"
By "unlock" I'm assuming he meant an unlocked bootloader, and not locked to a cellular carrier? I did the basic test today, and mine appears to be locked, which is a shame because both of those functions would be great.
As far as "Keep Alive" goes, I can't seem to find that specific app/dev combo in the market. I don't use 3g/4g data on this phone, or any phone anymore, so is that an app that is better than keeping the scanning on, or is it a battery drain? I'm just not sure I follow the concept, because I can't find a description of it.
Regards,
--bb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll need to flash a custom ROM, which you can luckily do on your 710.
The a wifi radio turning on/off takes more power than one that is idly connected. So if you use the phone frequently, it's better to stay connected. If you aren't going to touch it for many hours at a time, better to let it disconnect and turn off.
But if you aren't using cellular then you'll need wifi to update information in the background.

Some more here
Dialpad7
Handyscan
Photogram
Skype
Sleep Bug
Tango
UC Browser
whatspp= messenger
Yelp = to find nearby things

Android OS Design Considerations

Well Folks,
So I've been using this OS now for 2 full months and by full I mean I have spent most of my free time learning about it and as much as I find this OS exciting and I believe this is where computing is really at now, I thought I'd share some thoughts on its irritants and get your feedback and opinions about it, so that it could be improved upon in future iterations.
I would like to mention that I have been using computers since the days of punched cards back in the 70s and that I'm no stranger to writing programs, although I am not a computing or IT professional and have only dabbled working on a few programs and scripts only to the extent of doing what was necessary for my work.
That being said, here's some of what I think of this OS, its strengths and weaknesses, its bugs (some, most probably from Google, would insist they are features - more on this later) and its successes. I hope that by posting this others will add their comments, rants and raves as well.
To moderators, if this has already been discussed or of this should be moved to another forum or in any way wish to criticize it, feel free to do so.
***
As much as I was a Microsoft fan during the 90s, this OS sold me as the only one where freedom to innovate and a large community of enthusiasts seem to thrive, whereas Microsoft has become sclerotic and is now under control of corporate culture and thinking, in other words, it's lost its soul and is just running on inertia. I'll stop here so as not to insult the grays who have taken control of it and think it's the best thing since sliced bread.
The open source / free software (lets not get into semantics, please!) sure has fostered a lot of friendly development and sharing and this is definitely the way of the future, notwithstanding what corporate America believes. History has proven that small entities have always been the most productive in society, and it shows in real life and especially here: Although Google, who is the de-facto giant in control of the platform, officially frowns on user control and participation into the OS, it actually benefits from it and doesn't interfere too much with its evolution and as far as I can see, has actually embraced quite a few innovations that we've seen coming to life here and on other forums.
In other words, they don't like it when developers modify it, but are happy to benefit from it in the end, except perhaps those innovations that give more control to users that they wish users should have, but at least and contrarily to Apple and Microsoft, they are not persecuting those who innovate. God knows we already have way too much of that military-style control in our society where major corporations and their lawyers dictate pretty much what citizens can and cannot do.
As much as this OS is promising with its fundamental openness (at least at its roots) and is the least oppressive of them all, there is still a lot to do, or should I say, a lot of restrictions to lift and doors to open to make it a truly open and free platform for software development, and this goes straight back to Google and its overbearing influence on the development of this OS. But I guess we have had to sacrifice some freedom in order to get some support from this corporate giant; so here are some things that, over the past two months experience with the platform, I find severely lacking and in dire need of rethinking:
- Google's overbearing attitude and control over users, especially personified in the Play Store, where one cannot comment freely anymore and the use of which has been aggravating to no end and THE cause of crashes and dysfunction of the device: It only works some times and is so ingrained in the OS that when it misbehaves, you often have to no choice but to reinitialize the OS (aka the 'cold boot'), which, of course, causes havoc with your data and personal settings, which brings me to my next issue:
- The File System: Where is my stuff stored and why is it so difficult to find it and save it? You'd think it's a crime to save your own data! What gives? Why is it so difficult for apps or user settings to be saved in a location chosen by the user? Just try this: of all you apps, how many of them can you access the data from outside of the application and keep safe for the next time when your phone needs to be reinitialized?
- Connection to external devices: We all agree that connection is king and the key to efficient use of portable devices. Can someone explain to me then why does Android make is so difficult to access and transfer files between LOCAL DEVICES such as USB drives and computers and why it must hide some parts of itself and makes every effort to hide user data and keep it out of reach from its owner?
- The Cloud Fad: why is it that Google insists so much on taking over my Data? Why is it not telling me where it is stored and why is it hiding it from me? Knowing how Google manipulates and basically snoops in on everything you do (it's been proven), why would anyone in their right mind trust to have their stuff stored out of their reach when external hard drive so cheap it's almost free? Can someone explain what the advantage is to me, especially when wireless connections are precarious at best and data transport costs more and more? You find that 'convenient'?
- Background Data: Can someone tell me why my device needs to transport SO MUCH stuff in the background and why it needs to do so when it can operate quite happily otherwise when it notices that there isn't a data connection available? Doesn't Google realize that Wireless Data is horrendously expensive? Why can I not, as a user, control what data is sent back in the background in a granular way instead of having to shut it down at system level? Is Google afraid what users might find out about what information is sent to their servers without their explicit knowledge? Which brings me finally to
- Permissions: Why is it so difficult for users to control application permissions? Just like licenses, we only have the choice to 'take it or leave it', without any true knowledge what we sold the devil. Permissions are pernicious and should be under total control of the user. Those developers who need those permissions should explain them all and make it possible for users to deactivate them all so that users could see if the reduced functionality is worth it or not. LET USERS DECIDES WHAT GOES ON THEIR DEVICE!
***
So that's it for my Saturday afternoon rant. Like I said, these things have irritated me for a long time. If you have objections, comments or accolades and additions, here's the place to do so, unless of course the moderators decide otherwise: if this has been discussed somewhere else and I've bothered you with this post, by all means let me know.

All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
User data is stored in the /data partition. Apps can be found in /data/app and app data is found in /data/data
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
You can control an apps permissions, again with an app that needs root access. Found on the Play Store.
Sent from my Slim E4GT using xda premium

Mattix724 said:
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that is the beauty of Android
Mattix724 said:
User data is stored in the /data partition. Apps can be found in /data/app and app data is found in /data/data
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great to know! But you must admit that having to ask, or more precisely not being told where it is, is disturbing! Because what is more important than your data? WHY does it have to be so difficult to get to it? Why the secrecy? Don't users deserve to know where their files are and be able to select where to store them? Why am I not AUTOMATICALLY given the CHOICE as to its name and its location on my device?
Mattix724 said:
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but why is such an essential function NOT part of the OS and what more, why does it require the user to VIOLATE his warranty (by rooting) to do so? Don't you see what's WRONG with this?
Mattix724 said:
You can control an apps permissions, again with an app that needs root access. Found on the Play Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I understand; but doing so often breaks the apps. WHY do we need these permissions IMPOSED upon us in the first place? Doesn't it strike you as WRONG that so many apps need to access your most private information?
And coming back to the Google Play Store: I've used my device for two months and had to wipe it clean TWICE already and EVERY TIME because the Play Store refused to work anymore! Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? Doesn't it hint at some homeland-security-esque infiltration deep into the OS from the part of Google?
***
In any case, I thank you for pointing out the practical solutions and workarounds and for getting the ball rolling, so to speak; but my point was more philosophical: WHY should we have to essentially "fight system" with these workarounds to do such straightforward things as as saving documents in a place of the user's choosing, being able to transfer files directly to his PC and being able to keep user privacy?
doesn't that bother anyone?
Shouldn't Android become more open and accessible as a platform that truly empowers its users and leave Apple and Microsoft to cater to those who couldn't be bothered?
Looking forward to your answers!

I sware people will complain nomatter what
Sent by Hellybelly 4.2.2

Disabling Background Data Completely?
Mattix724 said:
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
Sent from my Slim E4GT using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, so I have looked very extensively, spending hours searching for a way to disable background data and although they are many ways to do so when on cellular data, short of shutting off WiFi altogether, I have not found any discussion, much less a way to do so completely when on WiFi.
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
So the question remains: short of shutting off data altogether, how can I disable background data completely?
Wouldn't it be possible to either fake a connection so as to fool the system into thinking there is a connection for its hidden background processes, or to wake a connection up on demand when initiating querries and put it to sleep immediately after the answer has arrived?

Old faithful said:
OK, so I have looked very extensively, spending hours searching for a way to disable background data and although they are many ways to do so when on cellular data, short of shutting off WiFi altogether, I have not found any discussion, much less a way to do so completely when on WiFi.
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
So the question remains: short of shutting off data altogether, how can I disable background data completely?
Wouldn't it be possible to either fake a connection so as to fool the system into thinking there is a connection for its hidden background processes, or to wake a connection up on demand when initiating querries and put it to sleep immediately after the answer has arrived?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A simple data firewall program will take care of that. It will allow you to control what and when things get a data connection.

zelendel said:
A simple data firewall program will take care of that. It will allow you to control what and when things get a data connection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... I'm using Avast and its firewall doesn't have the option to turn off background data on Wi-Fi, it's either turn off Wi-Fi or not, no option to just turn off background data and leave access to foreground data. I've tried a few other apps that don't have this option either; it's all or nothing.
Do you know of any apps that have that granular choice? Could you suggest a few?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2

Old faithful said:
...
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what sort of background data do you want to disable? regarding weather, email, and news, turn off auto sync (disable it all, or by program).

edscholl said:
what sort of background data do you want to disable? regarding weather, email, and news, turn off auto sync (disable it all, or by program).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Precisely ... WHAT sort of background data needs to go on anyway?
Fetching the weather info takes up a few tens of KB. What then does it need to transfer megabytes in the background for then? My wife's weather widget in particular has used over 200 MB over the past month in background data whereas it has only needed a couple of megs to update itself! Doesn't that seem exaggerated?
My point is, what is background data needed for when these apps work perfectly well on demand with a tiny fraction of the bandwidth? Why is there no disclosure what exactly it is used for, if shutting data off when not in use has absolutely no detrimental effect on the function of the app, in other words, what's really going on?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2

Count your blessings!
I agree with you to some extent. Of course, you can do anything with root access, but why isn't this right here in front of me out of the box. With my Galaxy S III, managing the file system is a pain, and considering my USB Sync cable doesn't work long enough to make file transfers of 100MB+, this is a real problem. I don't want everything in the cloud, I want it here. I don't have internet (fast data speeds, at the least) everywhere. I would hope that Android advances with these features. I also wish there was a way, out of the box with skinned (by carrier or manufacturer) devices that you could disable all skins and themes and use the glorious Stock Android.
Seriously though, count your blessings, at least you're not using iOS!

Old faithful said:
Precisely ... WHAT sort of background data needs to go on anyway?
Fetching the weather info takes up a few tens of KB. What then does it need to transfer megabytes in the background for then? My wife's weather widget in particular has used over 200 MB over the past month in background data whereas it has only needed a couple of megs to update itself! Doesn't that seem exaggerated?
My point is, what is background data needed for when these apps work perfectly well on demand with a tiny fraction of the bandwidth? Why is there no disclosure what exactly it is used for, if shutting data off when not in use has absolutely no detrimental effect on the function of the app, in other words, what's really going on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So shut sync off if you prefer. I like my apps up to date when I wake my phone, but nobody is going to force you to keep sync on. This is such a non-issue.
As for weather, I guess it depends what app she's using. Looks like my weather widget used less than 1mb of data in the last month...

Background Data Implications
edscholl said:
So shut sync off if you prefer. I like my apps up to date when I wake my phone, but nobody is going to force you to keep sync on. This is such a non-issue.
As for weather, I guess it depends what app she's using. Looks like my weather widget used less than 1mb of data in the last month...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On my device, with sync off, background data off, I still get 119 KB foreground, 2.33 MB in the background for the past week, on WiFi, whcih I already turn off most of the time, because it's the only way I have found so far to stop the data leak.
I understand this may be a non issue for folks who have gigabytes of bandwidth a month and don't pay $50 per megabyte off contract like we do or $10 for 100MB, but my concern is deeper than that: what's happening in the background? Why do YOU implicitly trust what's happening in the background without full disclosure?
Also, regarding the voracity of Android for data, when I was on windows mobile with push email on a four hour basis, I used to use no more than a few MB per month, and that was with cellular data on at all times and I'd hardly use more than 50MB per month browsing on wap sites which did a great job of cutting out the non-content garbage that is so prevalent on regular 'full' sites these days.
I understand this may seem like a non-issue to those for whom data is plentiful and cheap, and that most of you implicitly trust what apps do with your data in the background, but to find this being dismissed is deeply worrisome to me: why SHOULD we trust Google and others corporations with our personal information, without even as much as a look at what's being transferred and for what reason? Doesn't that disturb anyone at all???
In any case, thank you for answering and keeping the debate open, so to speak.

To turn off background data go to settings, select Data Usage, press menu button and the check the restrict background data check box.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium

You can go even further and customize each apps background data usage from the same screen.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium

Sorry, just saw where you were talking about background data via WiFi....:banghead:
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium

Old faithful said:
On my device, with sync off, background data off, I still get 119 KB foreground, 2.33 MB in the background for the past week, on WiFi, whcih I already turn off most of the time, because it's the only way I have found so far to stop the data leak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what apps are using data? Why don't you turn off background data if you care? Heck, turn off WiFi and mobile networks when thou don't want to sync if you're worried about leakage.
Old faithful said:
I understand this may be a non issue for folks who have gigabytes of bandwidth a month and don't pay $50 per megabyte off contract like we do or $10 for 100MB, but my concern is deeper than that: what's happening in the background? Why do YOU implicitly trust what's happening in the background without full disclosure?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You implicitly trust apps with some data access when you install it, with the specific access given to you. If you think otherwise, your fooling yourself. I'm not sure why foreground vs background data makes much difference to you once you've trusted the app with data access anyway- it's not like it tells you how much data it's going to use per network transaction if you manually tell it to update...
Old faithful said:
Also, regarding the voracity of Android for data, when I was on windows mobile with push email on a four hour basis, I used to use no more than a few MB per month, and that was with cellular data on at all times and I'd hardly use more than 50MB per month browsing on wap sites which did a great job of cutting out the non-content garbage that is so prevalent on regular 'full' sites these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
50mb a month... I'm not sure I'd bother with a smartphone if I used data so little.
Old faithful said:
I understand this may seem like a non-issue to those for whom data is plentiful and cheap, and that most of you implicitly trust what apps do with your data in the background, but to find this being dismissed is deeply worrisome to me: why SHOULD we trust Google and others corporations with our personal information, without even as much as a look at what's being transferred and for what reason? Doesn't that disturb anyone at all???
In any case, thank you for answering and keeping the debate open, so to speak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We trust them because it makes our lives simpler, and quite frankly, most of us really aren't doing anything all that interesting with our data and Google and others really aren't interested in your personal info (not to be mistaken for an assertion that they're not interested in serving up ads relevant to you). But there's certainly a tradeoff. If you're not comfortable with it, turn it all off, or don't use a smartphone - nobody will hold it against thou.

Konvey said:
I agree with you to some extent. Of course, you can do anything with root access
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you can direct me to an app that allows me to COMPLETELY shut off background data for all apps including the OS, for any type of connection, incuding WiFi, I wouldn't be so concerned, but I have looked for the past two months now and found nothing so far that does that, even the acclaimed Droidwall can't turn background data off, even when everything is turned off, meaning, NO data access whatsoever: the bloody "OS Services" still happily does its thing in the backrground, and there is no way to find out what it does (I tried tPacketCapture - I only get 24 byte long files that I can't read anything out of)
Since it would seem that the problem is deep within the operating system, it would seem that the only way to completely shut off background data would be to give a local host redirect for every BACKGROUND process, such as what is possible in Windows using a 127.0.0.1 riderect. Since I'm a newbie when it comes to Android I don't know how to do it, but surely there must be a way, or a way to connect to WiFi only on demand?
Konvey said:
but why isn't this right here in front of me out of the box. With my Galaxy S III, managing the file system is a pain, and considering my USB Sync cable doesn't work long enough to make file transfers of 100MB+, this is a real problem. I don't want everything in the cloud, I want it here. I don't have internet (fast data speeds, at the least) everywhere. I would hope that Android advances with these features. I also wish there was a way, out of the box with skinned (by carrier or manufacturer) devices that you could disable all skins and themes and use the glorious Stock Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I am still looking for a file explorer with the functionality of my old Norton File Manager (remember that one?). I can't understand why the so-called 'expert' ones such as Root Explorer don't have accessible sorting features (why hide it in settings? Isn't that a basic, essential feature of any file management system to be able to sort based on these common criteria?).
Furthermore, I'd love nothing more than being able to swipe left from the home screen directly into the file system for direct access to shortcuts, packages and data, and to be able to specify where the OS shoudl store MY data (instead of keeping it hidden as is most often the case).
Konvey said:
Seriously though, count your blessings, at least you're not using iOS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more, I'll never have an Apple product in my house, no need to say more, we all know about Apple's control of its users and tyrannical ways. George Orwell had it mostly right, but where he failed is where Big Brother would come from: Not the government. Or perhaps we should say that Major Corporations, through the power of their lobbies, have indeed become the de-facto Government .

Thanks again for your answer, Ed.
edscholl said:
So what apps are using data? Why don't you turn off background data if you care? Heck, turn off WiFi and mobile networks when thou don't want to sync if you're worried about leakage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shutting WiFi off after use is what I've been doing of late, but it's an uphill battle. The minute I turn WiFi back on, the OS, like a ravenous dog, immediately gets into background data mode, trumping the foreground querries by volume. But it's a start
edscholl said:
You implicitly trust apps with some data access when you install it, with the specific access given to you. If you think otherwise, your fooling yourself. I'm not sure why foreground vs background data makes much difference to you once you've trusted the app with data access anyway- it's not like it tells you how much data it's going to use per network transaction if you manually tell it to update...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but to see the data exchange so lopsided (most of it being background) is what makes me wonder what it really does. Perhaps it can be trusted but what bothers me is these apps don't tell you what they really do 'for you' in background mode and why they need so much bandwidth... I mean, how much data is required to transmit temperatures, weather conditions and the such? Heck any update would surely fit in a sub KB transmission even for 3 or 4 cities like I have in my setup...
edscholl said:
50mb a month... I'm not sure I'd bother with a smartphone if I used data so little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To each his own, Ed. When data costs $10 for 100MB and the most you can get is 1GB for $60 (or as low as $30 on promo), you quickly come to your senses. That's, of course, another issue altogether.
Fact is, apart from media such as youtube and other streaming sites, text based information (or information update using apps that are supposed to have built in presentation such as snow fluries for "snow") should require very little data, typically 1KB per full size page. You have to admit that something is wrong with this picture that when I read a 500 word article it requires the same amount of bandwidth as the contents of a whole book!
edscholl said:
We trust them because it makes our lives simpler, and quite frankly, most of us really aren't doing anything all that interesting with our data and Google and others really aren't interested in your personal info (not to be mistaken for an assertion that they're not interested in serving up ads relevant to you). But there's certainly a tradeoff. If you're not comfortable with it, turn it all off, or don't use a smartphone - nobody will hold it against thou.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do make our lives simpler and there is a trade-off, agreed. The point I make is where the line should be crossed. Are we willing to get shoved with 99% non content garbage in order to access the remaining 1% meaningful content? Because that is certainly the going rate for full websites such as cnet, tech republic and others, and when looking at background data on Android, at least from my perspective. I was online back in 1993 when the www started (before on Co$tly Compuserve) and with the limited technology we had at the time we could get access to more meaningful content faster than we can now, and with very, very limited bandwidth!
Ok, ok, enough of the oldtimer rant Maybe you are right and I'm just an old fool. But I'd rather be considered an old fool for asking stupid questions than to accept it all without any question

Old faithful said:
Yes, but to see the data exchange so lopsided (most of it being background) is what makes me wonder what it really does. Perhaps it can be trusted but what bothers me is these apps don't tell you what they really do 'for you' in background mode and why they need so much bandwidth... I mean, how much data is required to transmit temperatures, weather conditions and the such? Heck any update would surely fit in a sub KB transmission even for 3 or 4 cities like I have in my setup...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and as I said, my weather widget uses (beautiful widgets) like 1mb a month. On my phone, the HTC sense widget uses like 5mb.
So if your weather app - again, what apps, specifically, are you having issues with? - is using hundreds of MBS, maybe it's doing a lot more (like live radar or videos), or maybe it's just crap and you should uninstall it.
Old faithful said:
Fact is, apart from media such as youtube and other streaming sites, text based information (or information update using apps that are supposed to have built in presentation such as snow fluries for "snow") should require very little data, typically 1KB per full size page. You have to admit that something is wrong with this picture that when I read a 500 word article it requires the same amount of bandwidth as the contents of a whole book!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are tilting at windmills. The average page size is pushing 1.5mb, and was more than 1k back in the Netscape beta days (15k average ~1995).
It's not uncommon for a http HEADER to be bigger than 1k.
Old faithful said:
They do make our lives simpler and there is a trade-off, agreed. The point I make is where the line should be crossed. Are we willing to get shoved with 99% non content garbage in order to access the remaining 1% meaningful content? Because that is certainly the going rate for full websites such as cnet, tech republic and others, and when looking at background data on Android, at least from my perspective. I was online back in 1993 when the www started (before on Co$tly Compuserve) and with the limited technology we had at the time we could get access to more meaningful content faster than we can now, and with very, very limited bandwidth!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your looking at the past through rose colored glasses if you remember more meaningful content being available in 1993. In mid 1993, there were 130 webpages, total. End of 1993, around 1000. End of 1994, around 10000. And a lot of them were useless crap that students were putting up (I know, I was one of them).
Old faithful said:
Ok, ok, enough of the oldtimer rant Maybe you are right and I'm just an old fool. But I'd rather be considered an old fool for asking stupid questions than to accept it all without any question
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not about accepting it without question. It's mainly you haven't given much specifics, so the only general answer is, well, it's for convenience, so turn off your data if you're worried. The details you did give - email and weather - it's very clear why they would use background data.
---------- Post added at 12:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------
Regarding your other points:
Old faithful said:
Great to know! But you must admit that having to ask, or more precisely not being told where it is, is disturbing! Because what is more important than your data? WHY does it have to be so difficult to get to it? Why the secrecy? Don't users deserve to know where their files are and be able to select where to store them? Why am I not AUTOMATICALLY given the CHOICE as to its name and its location on my device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That you didn't know where it was doesn't mean it is hidden or a secret; guidelines are published and clear, and apps generally follow them. You're not given a choice in name and location for simplicity.
Old faithful said:
True, but why is such an essential function NOT part of the OS and what more, why does it require the user to VIOLATE his warranty (by rooting) to do so? Don't you see what's WRONG with this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Commonly claimed, but rooting does not void your warranty. Problems you cause by rooting will do not need to be honored by the warranty.
Old faithful said:
Again, I understand; but doing so often breaks the apps. WHY do we need these permissions IMPOSED upon us in the first place? Doesn't it strike you as WRONG that so many apps need to access your most private information?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No app imposes anything on you - apps require the permissions they do and they're spelled out before you install. Don't install apps that required permissions thou don't like.
Old faithful said:
And coming back to the Google Play Store: I've used my device for two months and had to wipe it clean TWICE already and EVERY TIME because the Play Store refused to work anymore! Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? Doesn't it hint at some homeland-security-esque infiltration deep into the OS from the part of Google?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like your phone is broken. Get a replacement under warranty.

Signal Private Messenger

Hi,
I've discovered the description of "Signal Private Messenger" app, but I don't know what thinking about it.
Its description seem's to indicate that you can communicate voice and text securely end to end with your smartphone, and that it's open source.
What is really securely ? I don't know and "I want to know"
Thanks in advance for your answers.

Hi, The short answer is Yes. Signal is by Open Whisper Systems & runs on iOS and Android. You can use it as a regular SMS/MMS app; as well as encrypted SMS/MMS/phone calls. To activate the encryption you need to exchange keys with the person you want to message.
Hope this helps!

equi_design said:
Hi, The short answer is Yes. Signal is by Open Whisper Systems & runs on iOS and Android. You can use it as a regular SMS/MMS app; as well as encrypted SMS/MMS/phone calls. To activate the encryption you need to exchange keys with the person you want to message.
Hope this helps!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
Thanks for your answer.
Your answer is a good summary of the app's features.
But what are you thinking about the word "securely" ?
Is it a dream or a reality ?
The app's editor highlights testimonies from known people who use it. Is it sufficient to trust this app ?
Has someone in this forum examined the code of this app ?

Nothing is completely secure.
In my opinion, & from my use, Signal is more secure than a normal messengering app - but less secure than a talk in real life.
If you are interested in security, please check out this XDA subforum; http://forum.xda-developers.com/general/security
And read up here: www.eff.org

Hm, nice to see a discussion going on. Have just heard Snowden recommend the app so I thought I'd check it out. BUT, there is a but ... I intentionally blocked the app from any internet usage whatsoever with AFWall+ donate. I've set up my AFW to show a toast whenever it blocks an app trying to use the internet so that I know which apps try to use the net in the background without my permission or intention. To my surprise my AFW blocks Signal all the time when I use Signal. And I mean ALL the time. How does this make sense? Why would a privacy app try to connect to the internet constantly? I've not got WiFi calling and I've not even enabled it in Signal's settings. Am I missing something here or is there sth wrong with the app? It's making me feel that it is constantly trying to leak data and that's why it attempts to use the internet. Good thing I have a robust thing on board such as AFWall... best firewall out there.

jonathansmith said:
Hm, nice to see a discussion going on. Have just heard Snowden recommend the app so I thought I'd check it out. BUT, there is a but ... I intentionally blocked the app from any internet usage whatsoever with AFWall+ donate. I've set up my AFW to show a toast whenever it blocks an app trying to use the internet so that I know which apps try to use the net in the background without my permission or intention. To my surprise my AFW blocks Signal all the time when I use Signal. And I mean ALL the time. How does this make sense? Why would a privacy app try to connect to the internet constantly? I've not got WiFi calling and I've not even enabled it in Signal's settings. Am I missing something here or is there sth wrong with the app? It's making me feel that it is constantly trying to leak data and that's why it attempts to use the internet. Good thing I have a robust thing on board such as AFWall... best firewall out there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's encrypted, end to end. It's not leaking anything. The code is opensource, you can go and review the code and build it yourself.
If you're blocking it from accessing the internet, then it's going to try again, probably because it can see that there is a network connection live.

@jonathansmith
Thanks for your detailed feedback.
It will be nice if someone in this forum could analyze the code of this open source app.
As for me, I am unfortunately not competent.
Were you able to identify with AFW the site the app was trying to connect ?

dtective said:
It's encrypted, end to end. It's not leaking anything. The code is opensource, you can go and review the code and build it yourself. If you're blocking it from accessing the internet, then it's going to try again, probably because it can see that there is a network connection live.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, that's exactly what I don't get. Why would it attempt to establish a connection. Ofc I'm blocking it. I'm blocking tons of others apps as well, but unlike Signal (and a few other suspicious apps) the other apps do not try to establish a connection.
As I said, when you block an app from accessing the net with AFWall you can tell AFWall to give you a toast showing you when every signle time when AFWall blocks a certain app trying to access the net. So, with 99% of my AFWall-blocked apps I don't get this toast, meaning that those apps don't even attempt to access the net (but better stay safe and have em blocked.) With some tricky apps though, AFwall shows that toast msg indicating that it successfully blocks a certain app from accessing the net. That's what I don't get - why would Signal be set up in a way that it would attempt to access the net. Prolly WiFi calling or sth but I'd rather use it for now only as a default SMS client.
Yes, you are right. Signal can see that there is a network connection live and that's why it constantly tries to connect to it. Just wish Signal would get it once and for all that it is blocked for good and stop trying to access the net.
If anyone knows which Services, Broadcast Receivers, or Activities from Signal should be disabled (using MyAndroidTools for example) please do share which ones they are so I can disable them and thus prevent Signal from constantly trying to establish a connection. The toast msg from AFW does become annoying when it is every second second
---------- Post added at 11:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------
iwanttoknow said:
Were you able to identify with AFW the site the app was trying to connect ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe gotta look into the log of AFW. The toast msg only shows the ip address which Signal ties to connect but AFwall prevents it form doing. But that's not the prob for me. Doesn't matter too much what it tries to access cos I know AFWall is good enough at preventing that. Just want to stop Signal from trying to access whatever it is trying to access! Will let you know if I figure it out!
---------- Post added at 12:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 AM ----------
equi_design said:
Nothing is completely secure.
And read up here: www.eff.org
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second that. Nothing is, indeed! And thanks for reminding me about eff ... here's a good one - https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere @iwanttoknow check it out!

And here's a bit of a follow-up. Managed to catch the toast. Not sure if it is always the same ip that AFW blocks, but will try to pay attention. A reverse search reveals that the geo location of the ip is some place in Washington, US.
https://imgur.com/a/5fhIf

As I understood it
(And I could be wrong I left signal years ago when it was text secure)
Signal does NOT use sms to send messages
That functionality of the app was dropped a while back
It uses internet only to transmit encrypted messages
And it uses its own message server to host your messages.
It seems like decent software
I abandoned it because it uses your personal phone number as your identifier..
And it will not work with out a phone number..
Which for me is just crazy as every government in the world and most phone companies are selling /tracking your "meta" data based on your smart phone and it's phone number.
Think of it as any other encrypted internet message system
But it uses your phone number as an identifier...
Everyone gets my pubic email address now for communication.
Cops, government, hospital, work, stores,etc
It's the 21st century. Why use a phone number for anything anymore?

nutpants said:
As I understood it
(And I could be wrong I left signal years ago when it was text secure)
Signal does NOT use sms to send messages
That functionality of the app was dropped a while back
It uses internet only to transmit encrypted messages
And it uses its own message server to host your messages.
It seems like decent software
I abandoned it because it uses your personal phone number as your identifier..
And it will not work with out a phone number..
Which for me is just crazy as every government in the world and most phone companies are selling /tracking your "meta" data based on your smart phone and it's phone number.
Think of it as any other encrypted internet message system
But it uses your phone number as an identifier...
Everyone gets my pubic email address now for communication.
Cops, government, hospital, work, stores,etc
It's the 21st century. Why use a phone number for anything anymore?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to go back in time when the app was called Textsecure and it provided end to end encryption for SMS. The app was available on F-Droid until someone discovered that plain text sms were saved unencrypted on device. After that, the dev temporarily closed the source and also demanded that the app be removed from F-Droid, because in his view distribution on F-droid was "insecure." Well, that hole was fixed and the following versions worked pretty well. About the same, time, the dev started to be bothered by TSA every time he travelled by air. Then, within a few subsequent releases, google binaries and internet permission were included. Then, the app started to crash if internet service was restricted. In addition, you could only get the app from Googleplay, which means, you must have Gapps and Google Services Framework, which has total control over the phone and regularly "phones" home (obviously not your home). GSF can get your outgoing text before encryption and incoming text after.. Despite all of the above, one could still compile the app and use it without GSF. Then suddenly, the dev announced that he would no longer support encrypted SMS. About that time, he started receiving literally millions of $ from a US government's backed foundation. In addition, he was offered a lucrative contract to do encryption for What's UP, which later became Facebook. Quite a change after being harassed in airports So, encrypted sms were dropped and the app turned into an internet messenger. You must register with your phone number; your data goes through Google servers and Whisper System's servers. And by the way, neither the Signal servers nor Redphone servers are open source. You can't use the app unless you have Gapps and GSF and if you use the app, you are known to Whisper Systems, Google and all 3-letter agencies...
This is not the first time I am posting on Textsecure/Signal, just do a search on XDA and F-Droid forums and you will find more info with links. I would stay away from anything coming out of Whisper Systems. Use Silence, which is a fork of Textsecure with encrypted SMS. For over-the-internet services, use Conversations.
And by the way, never use an app where everything: encryption, encryption method, registration, servers are in the hands of one entity, which won't allow you to use other servers...

nutpants said:
As I understood it ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might be right but for normal unencrypted messages Signal uses simple SMS. Have tried it and without any WiFi or data it simply sends a msg as an SMS. So far so good but u might have a point. I'm yet to test with someone who also has the app installed and see how encrypted msgs are transferred. I'd imagine it NOT to be over the internet, but then again you might have a point? Why? Because as I said I've blocked Signal with AFWall and I get a toast showing that Signal CONSTANTLY tries to connect to the internet when there is currently a live connection to the internet, be it Data or Wifi. So yeah, you might be right, but I need to test it out. In the meantime someone who has already done this would do us a favour by telling us how it works.
Using my personal phone number as identifier does not sound cool indeed. If you are right about this: 'It uses internet only to transmit encrypted messages. And it uses its own message server to host your message' then I guess I'm ok with using the net for transmitting encr. msg since they are encrypted with E2EE. As to where the msgs are hosted. I guess I'm better off having them stored at Signal's server than at Verizon's cos from Verizon they end up DIRECTLY to the government. I guess with nuff persuasion and money though they'd also end up there from Signal. It's the way of the world, isn't it? Also, as I mentioned in my last post, the IP which Signal constantly tries to connect to is in Washington. That's already fishy enough .... very fishy!

optimumpro said:
Use Silence, which is a fork of Textsecure with encrypted SMS. For over-the-internet services, use Conversations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about apps like 'Wire' and 'Wickr - Top Secret Messenger'? Are they any good? Will give Silence and Conversations a try! 10x for bringing them up.

unknown404 said:
How about apps like 'Wire' and 'Wickr - Top Secret Messenger'? Are they any good? Will give Silence and Conversations a try! 10x for bringing them up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wickr is not open source. So, for me it is out of the question. Wire sounds good, although they say they can terminate your account at any time. Also, they say the company is based in Switzerland, but the location for dispute resolution is San Francisco. They also say they can require you to download/upgrade the app, which means that if you want to stay on older version, they won't let you...
Again, I am against models where everything is concentrated in the same hands...

optimumpro said:
Wickr is not open source. So, for me it is out of the question. Wire sounds good, although they say they can terminate your account at any time. Also, they say the company is based in Switzerland, but the location for dispute resolution is San Francisco. They also say they can require you to download/upgrade the app, which means that if you want to stay on older version, they won't let you...
Again, I am against models where everything is concentrated in the same hands...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess I'm ok with Wickr's being closed source (but then again what do I know ... the discussion about open vs closed source goes both ways so more opinions are welcome). Just don't get why I made an account there and now trying to log back in I'm told the credential are wrong. Weird!

Hi,
In my first post, I was asking your opinions about "Signal Private Messenger" app.
Thanks all for your answers.
In your answers, I have discovered the names of Silence and Conversations apps.
Which level of confidence for them and why ?

iwanttoknow said:
Hi,
In my first post, I was asking your opinions about "Signal Private Messenger" app.
Thanks all for your answers.
In your answers, I have discovered the names of Silence and Conversations apps.
Which level of confidence for them and why ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll be happy to hear more opinions as well but as optimumpro said, Silence really seems solid and offers E2EE, which is what I need. Have tested it with other users and seems good so far. Can't say anything about Conversations cos I've not used it yet. I read good stuff about Wickr as well, but yeah ... closed source deters many.

unknown404 said:
I'll be happy to hear more opinions as well but as optimumpro said, Silence really seems solid and offers E2EE, which is what I need. Have tested it with other users and seems good so far. Can't say anything about Conversations cos I've not used it yet. I read good stuff about Wickr as well, but yeah ... closed source deters many.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both Conversations and Silence are open source, unlike Signal, which contains prebuilt binaries and jar files. Also, neither Conversations nor Silence forces you to register or use their servers, which Signal does.

optimumpro said:
Both Conversations and Silence are open source, unlike Signal, which contains prebuilt binaries and jar files. Also, neither Conversations nor Silence forces you to register or use their servers, which Signal does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That I do second and that I do like!

Hi,
After reading some articles, I discovered that it was "easy" to assure End-to-end encryption (E2EE) for our communications. I share my understanding here, knowing that it's well known by experts in the domain. So thank you for being kind to me.
In fact, there is a difficulty for communicating parties who wanted to communicate without anyone spying their voice or written messages. They have to use cryptographic protocols relying on a shared secret. But how to share a secret on unsecure communication channels ?
It's "easy", due to the Diffie-Hellman cryptographic protocol which permits to do that. There are a lot of explanations about it on the Net. But it could be defeated by the man-in-the-middle attack (MITM). To counter this attack, you have "simply" to sign the shared secret with asymetric keys (with your secret key to sign the shared secret, and with your public key permitting to the other part verify it). If you are interested, see more explanations on the Net about asymetric cryptographic protocols.
I sincerely hope that I didn't say too much nonsense.
Silence app is based on Diffie-Hellman protocol, like other apps in the domain.
In summary, after reading your answers to my initial post :
- Silence app permits to exchange SMS/MMS, using E2EE.
- Conversations app is an instant messaging (IM) client for Android, using E2EE.
Signal Private Menssenger is an E2EE IM and voice calling app.
I have noted what has been written about Signal Private Menssenger in this thread, so is there a "less intrusive" E2EE voice calling app, in the same way as Silence ?
Thanks for your participation.

Database Info

welcome