Database Info

Taintdroid...android's duff security model

Worrying article on how apps are using personal information.
www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/30/suspicious_android_apps/
I'm sick that they had to go too such lengths to find out. We need a better net architecture to enable a proper firewall to work.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Also, app naming FAIL!

Well, since they only tested 30 apps and won't release the names of the ones they tested, only saying that they are "the most popular", personally I don't buy it.
And the information these apps are sending out is primarily geolocation. Well, no ****. If an app wants your location and you don't think it should have it, it's either using it for ads or you should decline to install the app and just send an email to the dev asking him why he needs that information.

tjhart85 said:
Well, since they only tested 30 apps and won't release the names of the ones they tested, only saying that they are "the most popular", personally I don't buy it.
And the information these apps are sending out is primarily geolocation. Well, no ****. If an app wants your location and you don't think it should have it, it's either using it for ads or you should decline to install the app and just send an email to the dev asking him why he needs that information.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed... geolocation is pretty obviously straight forward. I don't know about the 'transmissing every 30 seconds' thing though.
Any thoughts ont he transmitting sim card and IMEI info?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnLujX1Dw4Y
Also discussed here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=795702
With explanation where to get it from http://www.appanalysis.org/

A very well-written reply by "Steven Knox" on The Register, demonstrating how this 'research' is simply a pile of intentionally-misleading statistical rubbish:
By selecting only from applications that access both personal data and the internet, they're overstating the significance of their study by about 3x. Furthermore, their summaries blur this distinction unnecessarily.
Specifically, their FAQ says "We studied just over 8% of the top 50 popular free applications in each category that had access to privacy sensitive information in order to get a sense of the behaviors of these applications." Since there were 22 categories at the time they did the study, that would imply (22*50=1,100 * 8% =) 88 applications. However, they actually only tested 30, because of the 1,100 top 50 applications only (from the PDF) "roughly a third of the applications (358 of the 1,100 applications) require Internet permissions along with permissions to access
either location, camera, or audio data." -- meaning that the other 742 apps don't have the necessary permissions to play badly. The clause "..that had access to privacy sensitive information in order to get a sense of the behaviors of these applications." from the FAQ is grammatically ambiguous in this case (it may refer to "applications" or "category"), and not specific enough to indicate that over 2/3 of the applications are (relatively) safe by dint of not having the necessary permissions.
They also didn't include in their study apps from 10 of the 22 categories, but they don't explain whether that was due to a) there not being any or enough applications in those categories that required internet and personal data permissions, b) a conscious choice to focus on the other 12 categories, or c) the results of random selection (with an explanation of why they did not use a stratified sample).
Once you factor back in the applications they ignored, the numbers don't look quite so bad. Assuming their sample was representative, 2/3 of the 358, or about 239 applications of the top 1,100 of the time use personal data suspiciously. That's about 21.7% or just over 1 in 5 -- still significant, but a far cry from 2 out of 3. In fact, the worst case maximum is actually 358 of 1,100 or just under 1 in 3 (32.45%) because they are as mentioned above the only ones that actually acquire the permissions necessary to do anything "suspicious".
I understand why both the researchers and the reporter used the 2/3 figure -- you all believe you have to sell the point as hard as possible*. But the real story is that it's likely that at least 1 in 5 Android Apps use private data "suspiciously" -- and that number is still high enough to cause concern and to justify the further use of tools like TaintDroid. It's a pity you didn't trust the facts enough to avoid the unnecessary sensationalism.
*I am assuming, here, that Mr. Goodin did actually read and digest the paper as I did, rather than simply picking out the figures from the study, the FAQ, or a press release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

good spot. But one in ten woolf be too many. The point is we should have more fine grained control and transparency off what apps do over the net, and we can't, by design.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

We need to develop a shim that reports modified IMEI/SIM data for different apps. IMO, very few apps need that information. We may not be able to keep all those apps from sending our private information, but we can make that information useless if it appears that we all are using the same IMEI/SIM...

patp said:
...The point is we should have more fine grained control and transparency off what apps do over the net...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed....

if you are rooted. With Root Explorer go to /data/system/ and open accounts.db you might be surprised what you find in it... Some people it will be fine for but mine it shows my exchange email and password in plain text and a few others show up as plain text has well...Its not geo they are worried about (for the most part) and...this file has been known about for awhile
Don't worry though unless your downloaded android specific virus holding apps you wont have any problem. And if your getting all your apps legally through the market then its no big deal =) and if your pirating them...well I don't feel bad for you...

echoside said:
if you are rooted. With Root Explorer go to /data/system/ and open accounts.db you might be surprised what you find in it... Some people it will be fine for but mine it shows my exchange email and password in plain text and a few others show up as plain text has well...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opened it, my accounts are there, but no passwords....

rori~ said:
Opened it, my accounts are there, but no passwords....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my gmail is somesort of encrypted but doesnt look that great.
Exchange shows up
facebook doesnt show anything at all aha
Thats why I said some might not have anything. Awhile back when I first heard about it one of my friends had two or three right there in plain English I didn't have a phone at the time to check...
Its been reported before but kind of just brushed over no biggy. To go real conspiracy theorist....I think apple is submitting all these articles...

ButtonBoy said:
We need to develop a shim that reports modified IMEI/SIM data for different apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great idea

The source code/instructions for TaintDroid are now out:
http://appanalysis.org/download.html

Anybody found a (recent) kernel with built-in TaintDroid-support?

App Permissions - Little Help Please

I'm still newer to Android and today realized the permissions that apps request. Before I was quick to just accept & go. I was about to install an app that is requesting a LOT of permissions. Phone calls, hardware controls (pics/vids at any time), and network communication (SMS I believe). My questions are simple.
1. Do certain custom mods, like Synergy? Do some mods already implement certain things into itself to disable some of these features? I understand this is a mod-by-mod basis if so. Does Synergy do anything to disable this crap, anybody know?
2. How worried do I have to be about this? Will the app literally take pics and send them out without my knowledge? Or is it only the pics I take it can send out? How does this work?
3. Which of the permissions that apps request do I really need to keep an eye on and watch out for? AKA, what could take info/pics that I dont want it to?
4. Is Anti-Virus software REALLY necessary since I'm all rooted and such? I read articles saying it's useful and others saying it doesn't even provide much protection, and the chance to get something is quite rare if you only use google play/android market?
Thanks in advance for any and all help. I ditched Apple and AT&T for this thing, and with it being rooted, I am unbelievably happy I made the switch to both VZW and the S3! AWESOME phone, screen size, and customization!
Edit: Posted wrong forum....Shoulda been Q&A forum. Devs plz move.

1. Not sure. I haven't played with synergy.
2. What kind of app is it? This is huge into what kkind of permissions it needs. If its a live wallpaper app it shouldn't be asking to be able to read your contacts or send SMS. You just gotta think what does this app do and why does it need this permission. A launcher app like Apex or Nova needs A LOT of permissions. To be able to make calls and send SMS and work the camera as a launcher can do all of those. Does a game need the ability to do that though? No. It may ask to read your contacts so it can share crap with your friends though. It can be hard when you look at permission apps ask for to decide it its legit or not. If you can't decide just don't download.
I try to only download hugely popular apps that I know aren't malware. If its got over 100k downloads chances are it is a safe app.
Permissions are tricky and until you realize all an app can do you wont understand why it wants to do some things. It took me a good year of downloading apps and reading about things toto get a great grip on permissions.
The biggest thing is common sense. What does the app do and why should it need this permission. An SMS app needs permission to the camera and to send SMS that cost money and read your phone book and such. But if I download a live wallpaper or a weather widget...why would they need such abilities. That should raise a HUGE red flag. Anytime you see "can send SMS that may cost you money" in permissions try to figure out why it needs that. Cause the last thing you want is to DL it and tomorrow have $600 in txt fees.
I don't believe in anti virus on my phone. Yeah you can get em and some love em. But really. If you just use common sense and don't download suspicious things you shouldn't need one. I refer back to only download trusted apps. If it has less the 1k downloads. Be wary. It may be a new app that a dev just launched. Or it could be a reason for the lack of downloads. Look at reviews ALWAYS. Yes many are from morons. But some are helpful. Also if you want a popular game go straight to the devs for it in the market. Many times bogus apps are posted that spoof popular apps like angry birds. Download the one with millions of downloads. Not the one with a thousand.
The more you use your device the more you'll understand. I download plenty of apps from XDA with very few downloads in the market and have been safe. But this comes from knowing and trusting a developer. That's why these forums rock. You can get in on an app in its infancy and help test it and make it grow.
--Sent from GlaDos baked potato

Google is eventually going to have to step in and put a stop to this, but more and more apps are requesting permissions that they have no business requesting. It is unfortunate, especially when the intrusive app is one you would like to have.
I choose to completely disregard any app that asks for permissions it is obvious it doesn't need. The exception being internet access for ads, as incorporating ads into an app can be a legitimate way for an app developer to generate revenue. (And the unsightly ads can be removed with an ad blocker like AdAway, so it's kind of a win-win).
However, if there is an app that you just "need" to download or would just like better control of your phone, you could download an app called "Permissions Denied." This app let's you decide what permissions are granted to each app.

i use LBE Privacy Guard to help manage my permissions. You can mark certain apps as trusted and deny specific permissions for other apps. Also lets you know when a specific app is trying to access certain functions. Only had it for a couple days but liking it so far.
i used to run an anti-virus, AVG to be specific, but after a while just decided to get smarter about what i install and have been going without one.

Android OS Design Considerations

Well Folks,
So I've been using this OS now for 2 full months and by full I mean I have spent most of my free time learning about it and as much as I find this OS exciting and I believe this is where computing is really at now, I thought I'd share some thoughts on its irritants and get your feedback and opinions about it, so that it could be improved upon in future iterations.
I would like to mention that I have been using computers since the days of punched cards back in the 70s and that I'm no stranger to writing programs, although I am not a computing or IT professional and have only dabbled working on a few programs and scripts only to the extent of doing what was necessary for my work.
That being said, here's some of what I think of this OS, its strengths and weaknesses, its bugs (some, most probably from Google, would insist they are features - more on this later) and its successes. I hope that by posting this others will add their comments, rants and raves as well.
To moderators, if this has already been discussed or of this should be moved to another forum or in any way wish to criticize it, feel free to do so.
***
As much as I was a Microsoft fan during the 90s, this OS sold me as the only one where freedom to innovate and a large community of enthusiasts seem to thrive, whereas Microsoft has become sclerotic and is now under control of corporate culture and thinking, in other words, it's lost its soul and is just running on inertia. I'll stop here so as not to insult the grays who have taken control of it and think it's the best thing since sliced bread.
The open source / free software (lets not get into semantics, please!) sure has fostered a lot of friendly development and sharing and this is definitely the way of the future, notwithstanding what corporate America believes. History has proven that small entities have always been the most productive in society, and it shows in real life and especially here: Although Google, who is the de-facto giant in control of the platform, officially frowns on user control and participation into the OS, it actually benefits from it and doesn't interfere too much with its evolution and as far as I can see, has actually embraced quite a few innovations that we've seen coming to life here and on other forums.
In other words, they don't like it when developers modify it, but are happy to benefit from it in the end, except perhaps those innovations that give more control to users that they wish users should have, but at least and contrarily to Apple and Microsoft, they are not persecuting those who innovate. God knows we already have way too much of that military-style control in our society where major corporations and their lawyers dictate pretty much what citizens can and cannot do.
As much as this OS is promising with its fundamental openness (at least at its roots) and is the least oppressive of them all, there is still a lot to do, or should I say, a lot of restrictions to lift and doors to open to make it a truly open and free platform for software development, and this goes straight back to Google and its overbearing influence on the development of this OS. But I guess we have had to sacrifice some freedom in order to get some support from this corporate giant; so here are some things that, over the past two months experience with the platform, I find severely lacking and in dire need of rethinking:
- Google's overbearing attitude and control over users, especially personified in the Play Store, where one cannot comment freely anymore and the use of which has been aggravating to no end and THE cause of crashes and dysfunction of the device: It only works some times and is so ingrained in the OS that when it misbehaves, you often have to no choice but to reinitialize the OS (aka the 'cold boot'), which, of course, causes havoc with your data and personal settings, which brings me to my next issue:
- The File System: Where is my stuff stored and why is it so difficult to find it and save it? You'd think it's a crime to save your own data! What gives? Why is it so difficult for apps or user settings to be saved in a location chosen by the user? Just try this: of all you apps, how many of them can you access the data from outside of the application and keep safe for the next time when your phone needs to be reinitialized?
- Connection to external devices: We all agree that connection is king and the key to efficient use of portable devices. Can someone explain to me then why does Android make is so difficult to access and transfer files between LOCAL DEVICES such as USB drives and computers and why it must hide some parts of itself and makes every effort to hide user data and keep it out of reach from its owner?
- The Cloud Fad: why is it that Google insists so much on taking over my Data? Why is it not telling me where it is stored and why is it hiding it from me? Knowing how Google manipulates and basically snoops in on everything you do (it's been proven), why would anyone in their right mind trust to have their stuff stored out of their reach when external hard drive so cheap it's almost free? Can someone explain what the advantage is to me, especially when wireless connections are precarious at best and data transport costs more and more? You find that 'convenient'?
- Background Data: Can someone tell me why my device needs to transport SO MUCH stuff in the background and why it needs to do so when it can operate quite happily otherwise when it notices that there isn't a data connection available? Doesn't Google realize that Wireless Data is horrendously expensive? Why can I not, as a user, control what data is sent back in the background in a granular way instead of having to shut it down at system level? Is Google afraid what users might find out about what information is sent to their servers without their explicit knowledge? Which brings me finally to
- Permissions: Why is it so difficult for users to control application permissions? Just like licenses, we only have the choice to 'take it or leave it', without any true knowledge what we sold the devil. Permissions are pernicious and should be under total control of the user. Those developers who need those permissions should explain them all and make it possible for users to deactivate them all so that users could see if the reduced functionality is worth it or not. LET USERS DECIDES WHAT GOES ON THEIR DEVICE!
***
So that's it for my Saturday afternoon rant. Like I said, these things have irritated me for a long time. If you have objections, comments or accolades and additions, here's the place to do so, unless of course the moderators decide otherwise: if this has been discussed somewhere else and I've bothered you with this post, by all means let me know.

All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
User data is stored in the /data partition. Apps can be found in /data/app and app data is found in /data/data
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
You can control an apps permissions, again with an app that needs root access. Found on the Play Store.
Sent from my Slim E4GT using xda premium

Mattix724 said:
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that is the beauty of Android
Mattix724 said:
User data is stored in the /data partition. Apps can be found in /data/app and app data is found in /data/data
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great to know! But you must admit that having to ask, or more precisely not being told where it is, is disturbing! Because what is more important than your data? WHY does it have to be so difficult to get to it? Why the secrecy? Don't users deserve to know where their files are and be able to select where to store them? Why am I not AUTOMATICALLY given the CHOICE as to its name and its location on my device?
Mattix724 said:
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but why is such an essential function NOT part of the OS and what more, why does it require the user to VIOLATE his warranty (by rooting) to do so? Don't you see what's WRONG with this?
Mattix724 said:
You can control an apps permissions, again with an app that needs root access. Found on the Play Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I understand; but doing so often breaks the apps. WHY do we need these permissions IMPOSED upon us in the first place? Doesn't it strike you as WRONG that so many apps need to access your most private information?
And coming back to the Google Play Store: I've used my device for two months and had to wipe it clean TWICE already and EVERY TIME because the Play Store refused to work anymore! Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? Doesn't it hint at some homeland-security-esque infiltration deep into the OS from the part of Google?
***
In any case, I thank you for pointing out the practical solutions and workarounds and for getting the ball rolling, so to speak; but my point was more philosophical: WHY should we have to essentially "fight system" with these workarounds to do such straightforward things as as saving documents in a place of the user's choosing, being able to transfer files directly to his PC and being able to keep user privacy?
doesn't that bother anyone?
Shouldn't Android become more open and accessible as a platform that truly empowers its users and leave Apple and Microsoft to cater to those who couldn't be bothered?
Looking forward to your answers!

I sware people will complain nomatter what
Sent by Hellybelly 4.2.2

Disabling Background Data Completely?
Mattix724 said:
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
Sent from my Slim E4GT using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, so I have looked very extensively, spending hours searching for a way to disable background data and although they are many ways to do so when on cellular data, short of shutting off WiFi altogether, I have not found any discussion, much less a way to do so completely when on WiFi.
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
So the question remains: short of shutting off data altogether, how can I disable background data completely?
Wouldn't it be possible to either fake a connection so as to fool the system into thinking there is a connection for its hidden background processes, or to wake a connection up on demand when initiating querries and put it to sleep immediately after the answer has arrived?

Old faithful said:
OK, so I have looked very extensively, spending hours searching for a way to disable background data and although they are many ways to do so when on cellular data, short of shutting off WiFi altogether, I have not found any discussion, much less a way to do so completely when on WiFi.
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
So the question remains: short of shutting off data altogether, how can I disable background data completely?
Wouldn't it be possible to either fake a connection so as to fool the system into thinking there is a connection for its hidden background processes, or to wake a connection up on demand when initiating querries and put it to sleep immediately after the answer has arrived?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A simple data firewall program will take care of that. It will allow you to control what and when things get a data connection.

zelendel said:
A simple data firewall program will take care of that. It will allow you to control what and when things get a data connection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... I'm using Avast and its firewall doesn't have the option to turn off background data on Wi-Fi, it's either turn off Wi-Fi or not, no option to just turn off background data and leave access to foreground data. I've tried a few other apps that don't have this option either; it's all or nothing.
Do you know of any apps that have that granular choice? Could you suggest a few?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2

Old faithful said:
...
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what sort of background data do you want to disable? regarding weather, email, and news, turn off auto sync (disable it all, or by program).

edscholl said:
what sort of background data do you want to disable? regarding weather, email, and news, turn off auto sync (disable it all, or by program).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Precisely ... WHAT sort of background data needs to go on anyway?
Fetching the weather info takes up a few tens of KB. What then does it need to transfer megabytes in the background for then? My wife's weather widget in particular has used over 200 MB over the past month in background data whereas it has only needed a couple of megs to update itself! Doesn't that seem exaggerated?
My point is, what is background data needed for when these apps work perfectly well on demand with a tiny fraction of the bandwidth? Why is there no disclosure what exactly it is used for, if shutting data off when not in use has absolutely no detrimental effect on the function of the app, in other words, what's really going on?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2

Count your blessings!
I agree with you to some extent. Of course, you can do anything with root access, but why isn't this right here in front of me out of the box. With my Galaxy S III, managing the file system is a pain, and considering my USB Sync cable doesn't work long enough to make file transfers of 100MB+, this is a real problem. I don't want everything in the cloud, I want it here. I don't have internet (fast data speeds, at the least) everywhere. I would hope that Android advances with these features. I also wish there was a way, out of the box with skinned (by carrier or manufacturer) devices that you could disable all skins and themes and use the glorious Stock Android.
Seriously though, count your blessings, at least you're not using iOS!

Old faithful said:
Precisely ... WHAT sort of background data needs to go on anyway?
Fetching the weather info takes up a few tens of KB. What then does it need to transfer megabytes in the background for then? My wife's weather widget in particular has used over 200 MB over the past month in background data whereas it has only needed a couple of megs to update itself! Doesn't that seem exaggerated?
My point is, what is background data needed for when these apps work perfectly well on demand with a tiny fraction of the bandwidth? Why is there no disclosure what exactly it is used for, if shutting data off when not in use has absolutely no detrimental effect on the function of the app, in other words, what's really going on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So shut sync off if you prefer. I like my apps up to date when I wake my phone, but nobody is going to force you to keep sync on. This is such a non-issue.
As for weather, I guess it depends what app she's using. Looks like my weather widget used less than 1mb of data in the last month...

Background Data Implications
edscholl said:
So shut sync off if you prefer. I like my apps up to date when I wake my phone, but nobody is going to force you to keep sync on. This is such a non-issue.
As for weather, I guess it depends what app she's using. Looks like my weather widget used less than 1mb of data in the last month...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On my device, with sync off, background data off, I still get 119 KB foreground, 2.33 MB in the background for the past week, on WiFi, whcih I already turn off most of the time, because it's the only way I have found so far to stop the data leak.
I understand this may be a non issue for folks who have gigabytes of bandwidth a month and don't pay $50 per megabyte off contract like we do or $10 for 100MB, but my concern is deeper than that: what's happening in the background? Why do YOU implicitly trust what's happening in the background without full disclosure?
Also, regarding the voracity of Android for data, when I was on windows mobile with push email on a four hour basis, I used to use no more than a few MB per month, and that was with cellular data on at all times and I'd hardly use more than 50MB per month browsing on wap sites which did a great job of cutting out the non-content garbage that is so prevalent on regular 'full' sites these days.
I understand this may seem like a non-issue to those for whom data is plentiful and cheap, and that most of you implicitly trust what apps do with your data in the background, but to find this being dismissed is deeply worrisome to me: why SHOULD we trust Google and others corporations with our personal information, without even as much as a look at what's being transferred and for what reason? Doesn't that disturb anyone at all???
In any case, thank you for answering and keeping the debate open, so to speak.

To turn off background data go to settings, select Data Usage, press menu button and the check the restrict background data check box.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium

You can go even further and customize each apps background data usage from the same screen.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium

Sorry, just saw where you were talking about background data via WiFi....:banghead:
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium

Old faithful said:
On my device, with sync off, background data off, I still get 119 KB foreground, 2.33 MB in the background for the past week, on WiFi, whcih I already turn off most of the time, because it's the only way I have found so far to stop the data leak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what apps are using data? Why don't you turn off background data if you care? Heck, turn off WiFi and mobile networks when thou don't want to sync if you're worried about leakage.
Old faithful said:
I understand this may be a non issue for folks who have gigabytes of bandwidth a month and don't pay $50 per megabyte off contract like we do or $10 for 100MB, but my concern is deeper than that: what's happening in the background? Why do YOU implicitly trust what's happening in the background without full disclosure?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You implicitly trust apps with some data access when you install it, with the specific access given to you. If you think otherwise, your fooling yourself. I'm not sure why foreground vs background data makes much difference to you once you've trusted the app with data access anyway- it's not like it tells you how much data it's going to use per network transaction if you manually tell it to update...
Old faithful said:
Also, regarding the voracity of Android for data, when I was on windows mobile with push email on a four hour basis, I used to use no more than a few MB per month, and that was with cellular data on at all times and I'd hardly use more than 50MB per month browsing on wap sites which did a great job of cutting out the non-content garbage that is so prevalent on regular 'full' sites these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
50mb a month... I'm not sure I'd bother with a smartphone if I used data so little.
Old faithful said:
I understand this may seem like a non-issue to those for whom data is plentiful and cheap, and that most of you implicitly trust what apps do with your data in the background, but to find this being dismissed is deeply worrisome to me: why SHOULD we trust Google and others corporations with our personal information, without even as much as a look at what's being transferred and for what reason? Doesn't that disturb anyone at all???
In any case, thank you for answering and keeping the debate open, so to speak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We trust them because it makes our lives simpler, and quite frankly, most of us really aren't doing anything all that interesting with our data and Google and others really aren't interested in your personal info (not to be mistaken for an assertion that they're not interested in serving up ads relevant to you). But there's certainly a tradeoff. If you're not comfortable with it, turn it all off, or don't use a smartphone - nobody will hold it against thou.

Konvey said:
I agree with you to some extent. Of course, you can do anything with root access
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you can direct me to an app that allows me to COMPLETELY shut off background data for all apps including the OS, for any type of connection, incuding WiFi, I wouldn't be so concerned, but I have looked for the past two months now and found nothing so far that does that, even the acclaimed Droidwall can't turn background data off, even when everything is turned off, meaning, NO data access whatsoever: the bloody "OS Services" still happily does its thing in the backrground, and there is no way to find out what it does (I tried tPacketCapture - I only get 24 byte long files that I can't read anything out of)
Since it would seem that the problem is deep within the operating system, it would seem that the only way to completely shut off background data would be to give a local host redirect for every BACKGROUND process, such as what is possible in Windows using a 127.0.0.1 riderect. Since I'm a newbie when it comes to Android I don't know how to do it, but surely there must be a way, or a way to connect to WiFi only on demand?
Konvey said:
but why isn't this right here in front of me out of the box. With my Galaxy S III, managing the file system is a pain, and considering my USB Sync cable doesn't work long enough to make file transfers of 100MB+, this is a real problem. I don't want everything in the cloud, I want it here. I don't have internet (fast data speeds, at the least) everywhere. I would hope that Android advances with these features. I also wish there was a way, out of the box with skinned (by carrier or manufacturer) devices that you could disable all skins and themes and use the glorious Stock Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I am still looking for a file explorer with the functionality of my old Norton File Manager (remember that one?). I can't understand why the so-called 'expert' ones such as Root Explorer don't have accessible sorting features (why hide it in settings? Isn't that a basic, essential feature of any file management system to be able to sort based on these common criteria?).
Furthermore, I'd love nothing more than being able to swipe left from the home screen directly into the file system for direct access to shortcuts, packages and data, and to be able to specify where the OS shoudl store MY data (instead of keeping it hidden as is most often the case).
Konvey said:
Seriously though, count your blessings, at least you're not using iOS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more, I'll never have an Apple product in my house, no need to say more, we all know about Apple's control of its users and tyrannical ways. George Orwell had it mostly right, but where he failed is where Big Brother would come from: Not the government. Or perhaps we should say that Major Corporations, through the power of their lobbies, have indeed become the de-facto Government .

Thanks again for your answer, Ed.
edscholl said:
So what apps are using data? Why don't you turn off background data if you care? Heck, turn off WiFi and mobile networks when thou don't want to sync if you're worried about leakage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shutting WiFi off after use is what I've been doing of late, but it's an uphill battle. The minute I turn WiFi back on, the OS, like a ravenous dog, immediately gets into background data mode, trumping the foreground querries by volume. But it's a start
edscholl said:
You implicitly trust apps with some data access when you install it, with the specific access given to you. If you think otherwise, your fooling yourself. I'm not sure why foreground vs background data makes much difference to you once you've trusted the app with data access anyway- it's not like it tells you how much data it's going to use per network transaction if you manually tell it to update...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but to see the data exchange so lopsided (most of it being background) is what makes me wonder what it really does. Perhaps it can be trusted but what bothers me is these apps don't tell you what they really do 'for you' in background mode and why they need so much bandwidth... I mean, how much data is required to transmit temperatures, weather conditions and the such? Heck any update would surely fit in a sub KB transmission even for 3 or 4 cities like I have in my setup...
edscholl said:
50mb a month... I'm not sure I'd bother with a smartphone if I used data so little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To each his own, Ed. When data costs $10 for 100MB and the most you can get is 1GB for $60 (or as low as $30 on promo), you quickly come to your senses. That's, of course, another issue altogether.
Fact is, apart from media such as youtube and other streaming sites, text based information (or information update using apps that are supposed to have built in presentation such as snow fluries for "snow") should require very little data, typically 1KB per full size page. You have to admit that something is wrong with this picture that when I read a 500 word article it requires the same amount of bandwidth as the contents of a whole book!
edscholl said:
We trust them because it makes our lives simpler, and quite frankly, most of us really aren't doing anything all that interesting with our data and Google and others really aren't interested in your personal info (not to be mistaken for an assertion that they're not interested in serving up ads relevant to you). But there's certainly a tradeoff. If you're not comfortable with it, turn it all off, or don't use a smartphone - nobody will hold it against thou.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do make our lives simpler and there is a trade-off, agreed. The point I make is where the line should be crossed. Are we willing to get shoved with 99% non content garbage in order to access the remaining 1% meaningful content? Because that is certainly the going rate for full websites such as cnet, tech republic and others, and when looking at background data on Android, at least from my perspective. I was online back in 1993 when the www started (before on Co$tly Compuserve) and with the limited technology we had at the time we could get access to more meaningful content faster than we can now, and with very, very limited bandwidth!
Ok, ok, enough of the oldtimer rant Maybe you are right and I'm just an old fool. But I'd rather be considered an old fool for asking stupid questions than to accept it all without any question

Old faithful said:
Yes, but to see the data exchange so lopsided (most of it being background) is what makes me wonder what it really does. Perhaps it can be trusted but what bothers me is these apps don't tell you what they really do 'for you' in background mode and why they need so much bandwidth... I mean, how much data is required to transmit temperatures, weather conditions and the such? Heck any update would surely fit in a sub KB transmission even for 3 or 4 cities like I have in my setup...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and as I said, my weather widget uses (beautiful widgets) like 1mb a month. On my phone, the HTC sense widget uses like 5mb.
So if your weather app - again, what apps, specifically, are you having issues with? - is using hundreds of MBS, maybe it's doing a lot more (like live radar or videos), or maybe it's just crap and you should uninstall it.
Old faithful said:
Fact is, apart from media such as youtube and other streaming sites, text based information (or information update using apps that are supposed to have built in presentation such as snow fluries for "snow") should require very little data, typically 1KB per full size page. You have to admit that something is wrong with this picture that when I read a 500 word article it requires the same amount of bandwidth as the contents of a whole book!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are tilting at windmills. The average page size is pushing 1.5mb, and was more than 1k back in the Netscape beta days (15k average ~1995).
It's not uncommon for a http HEADER to be bigger than 1k.
Old faithful said:
They do make our lives simpler and there is a trade-off, agreed. The point I make is where the line should be crossed. Are we willing to get shoved with 99% non content garbage in order to access the remaining 1% meaningful content? Because that is certainly the going rate for full websites such as cnet, tech republic and others, and when looking at background data on Android, at least from my perspective. I was online back in 1993 when the www started (before on Co$tly Compuserve) and with the limited technology we had at the time we could get access to more meaningful content faster than we can now, and with very, very limited bandwidth!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your looking at the past through rose colored glasses if you remember more meaningful content being available in 1993. In mid 1993, there were 130 webpages, total. End of 1993, around 1000. End of 1994, around 10000. And a lot of them were useless crap that students were putting up (I know, I was one of them).
Old faithful said:
Ok, ok, enough of the oldtimer rant Maybe you are right and I'm just an old fool. But I'd rather be considered an old fool for asking stupid questions than to accept it all without any question
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not about accepting it without question. It's mainly you haven't given much specifics, so the only general answer is, well, it's for convenience, so turn off your data if you're worried. The details you did give - email and weather - it's very clear why they would use background data.
---------- Post added at 12:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------
Regarding your other points:
Old faithful said:
Great to know! But you must admit that having to ask, or more precisely not being told where it is, is disturbing! Because what is more important than your data? WHY does it have to be so difficult to get to it? Why the secrecy? Don't users deserve to know where their files are and be able to select where to store them? Why am I not AUTOMATICALLY given the CHOICE as to its name and its location on my device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That you didn't know where it was doesn't mean it is hidden or a secret; guidelines are published and clear, and apps generally follow them. You're not given a choice in name and location for simplicity.
Old faithful said:
True, but why is such an essential function NOT part of the OS and what more, why does it require the user to VIOLATE his warranty (by rooting) to do so? Don't you see what's WRONG with this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Commonly claimed, but rooting does not void your warranty. Problems you cause by rooting will do not need to be honored by the warranty.
Old faithful said:
Again, I understand; but doing so often breaks the apps. WHY do we need these permissions IMPOSED upon us in the first place? Doesn't it strike you as WRONG that so many apps need to access your most private information?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No app imposes anything on you - apps require the permissions they do and they're spelled out before you install. Don't install apps that required permissions thou don't like.
Old faithful said:
And coming back to the Google Play Store: I've used my device for two months and had to wipe it clean TWICE already and EVERY TIME because the Play Store refused to work anymore! Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? Doesn't it hint at some homeland-security-esque infiltration deep into the OS from the part of Google?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like your phone is broken. Get a replacement under warranty.

[TIP] Does Android Really Need Antivirus ?

Does Android Really Need AntiVirus??
What good does it do?
Basically, we all know that these apps protect our phone from being infected with malicious files that we download everyday. Files from untrusted sites of course. It helps clean the phone if ever it gets infected. Question is, Is this true?
NOTE: All other sites except the playstore are classified as untrusted sites
Since Android is made out of the linux platform, it really is hard to penetrate. Studies show that linux systems are almost impenetrable to viruses or malicious files than most phones that are not based on these system. In fact based on experience, I have never heard of an Android phone being "infected" that seriously. Well, who knows.
Another factor is that, antivirus apps consume more battery life. It consumes 50% of battery life while on stand-by mode. It also makes the phone lag a bit since it is running even if you can't see it. It also lags start-up time since it takes a while to load.
Whether you decide to install or not, i'ts better safe than never... right?
I Am not in the favor of these apps. Moreover I dont use Them

Okay... So, what makes you an authority on antivirus on Android? What inside knowledge do you have that makes your opinion an actual valid one, especially when considering all the hundreds of reports of 1000's of malware apps running rampant on our "impenetrable" OS?

Like you've mentioned they are draining some serious batterylife in standby-mode but some like avast can be configured to not run till you start them. A few antivurs apps are coming with widgets, I'd highly recommend not using them because they are really slowing down the tablet and consume a huge amount of battery.
I practise the same approach with my PC, if you know what you are doing and how to do it a firewall + antivirus program may not be need but safe is safe. Android is a very open plattform so having a tool to keep the apps "honest" is not a bad thing in my opinion.

FloatingFatMan said:
Okay... So, what makes you an authority on antivirus on Android? What inside knowledge do you have that makes your opinion an actual valid one, especially when considering all the hundreds of reports of 1000's of malware apps running rampant on our "impenetrable" OS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the antivirus are fake i dont knnow why they make them. Since Android is based on Linux, and Linux needs Super user Permissions to do most of the things especially when you want to harm the device ( viruses) you need to modify system (root) programs and bins/libs/modules which can only be done if you have the root permission. If you have ever used the Linux OS (like Ubuntu) you have to ask roots first before installing any s/w
eg:
Code:
sudo apt-get install
here, sudo is literally this
Code:
superuser-do

You're ignoring all the malware type apps that don't need root. All they need is novice users who aren't paying attention to the permissions list and go and install apps that aren't quite what they're pretending to be. THAT is the primary cause of infection on Android, and it IS an existing problem.

FloatingFatMan said:
You're ignoring all the malware type apps that don't need root. All they need is novice users who aren't paying attention to the permissions list and go and install apps that aren't quite what they're pretending to be. THAT is the primary cause of infection on Android, and it IS an existing problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Time For some Source CODE !!
Can You get me an example of this ?? I will bring you the code asap

Why would I need to do that? Are you denying that there aren't 1000's of rogue apps out there, masquerading as legit apps, that are stuffed to the gills with malicious code?
Have you been living under a rock for the past few years? Are you still under that rock? I suggest moving out, perhaps into a cave with a view.

Calm Down Dude
Nachiket.Namjoshi said:
Does Android Really Need AntiVirus??
Whether you decide to install or not, i'ts better safe than never... right?
I Am not in the favor of these apps. Moreover I dont use Them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here You go !
FloatingFatMan said:
Why would I need to do that? Are you denying that there aren't 1000's of rogue apps out there, masquerading as legit apps, that are stuffed to the gills with malicious code?
Have you been living under a rock for the past few years? Are you still under that rock? I suggest moving out, perhaps into a cave with a view.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Nachiket.Namjoshi said:
Here You go !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You forget that most phone users are novices, and don't have a damned clue what they're doing when installing apps. I'm a professional developer by trade (not on Android), and if there's one thing I know very well, users do not read popup dialogs, ever. They just click the button to make it go away so they can get on with what they're doing.
You cannot use people on XDA as an example of what users are like. Most of us here actually have some tech savvy and know what we're doing, but we're less than 1% of the userbase.
Which makes antivirus apps, resource hogs that they are, pretty critical for the average user; to protect them from their own stupidity. Advising people NOT to use them is rather irresponsible of you, especially as you are NOT a security expert.

FloatingFatMan said:
You forget that most phone users are novices, and don't have a damned clue what they're doing when installing apps. I'm a professional developer by trade (not on Android), and if there's one thing I know very well, users do not read popup dialogs, ever. They just click the button to make it go away so they can get on with what they're doing.
You cannot use people on XDA as an example of what users are like. Most of us here actually have some tech savvy and know what we're doing, but we're less than 1% of the userbase.
Which makes antivirus apps, resource hogs that they are, pretty critical for the average user; to protect them from their own stupidity. Advising people NOT to use them is rather irresponsible of you, especially as you are NOT a security expert.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. That is why I'm posting this here instead of a blog!! :')
Chillax buddy. Btw pdroid is better than antivirus apps bröder. I too am an app dev!
Sent from my GT-S5360 using xda app-developers app

I agree sir. this is true that some apps do such notorious things. but as a member of xda I am very care full about the permissions.

SHORTER
shorter: all files from internet cannot normaly harm your phone but if you download apk and instal it you can have problems (depends on app permisions) BUT it cannot totaly destroy your phone without SU permision (superuser)
normal files like mp3 mp4 cannot do anything
SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH and hit thanks if helped

FloatingFatMan said:
Why would I need to do that? Are you denying that there aren't 1000's of rogue apps out there, masquerading as legit apps, that are stuffed to the gills with malicious code?
Have you been living under a rock for the past few years? Are you still under that rock? I suggest moving out, perhaps into a cave with a view.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly what happens. This thread is really pointless. I can copy your whole data while you are busy making threads like these or block access to any of your apps while I'm running. Antivirus is not just something which protects you against so called viruses but also malicious apps.

I agree, though AV's like avast and dr.web which are considered "light" still consumes a lot from my phone. I have observed that lately even though I have deep sleep app on my phone , I whitelisted the AV's it tooks at around 30-50% of my battery. I don't want to automatically kill the AV because it will become useless if it doesn't run on background. so I decided to just uninstall it and get my apk downloads from PC so that avast and malwarebytes on pc will be the ones that will scan my apks.

Ok....i give...need some solid information.

I have googled and searched my fingertips to the bone. Whenever i ask a technical question, i get answers from the clueless and the blind. I am beginning to hate this game.
So here we go. Stock android 4.4.2 ....rooted. How do you control which apps autostart and load in the background? Right now I have been trying to kill the Music app. Nothing works. It always restarts. So that means there is a sticky setting in some file somewhere in the system that needs to be edited that more than likely can not properrly be controlled from the childish controls android offers. In windows this is controlled in the registry and the startup process. Where is this in android? Why does no one share this information?
Yes i know it's dangerous. Yes i know not to putts around in the operating system. But if youre rooted, give us the data to control things.
So i await a learned response that probaly only one of the "developers" can answer. Because it sure as s€£%t ain't out there to be found.
Signed, royally frustrated

I'm reminded of that saying "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." Not sure why your posts are so charged but many seasoned developers and posters aren't going to engage in conversation with someone who uses condesending and self righteous tones.
I've never seen detailed posting of how it works, nor do I care to know, but by installing Greenify you can effectively control what you wish to control. Greenify allows you to hibernate applications keeping them asleep until manually called.
Some applications have associated services that are used by other parts of the system or other applications and therefore stay loaded to provide that service. If you also install Xposed Framework it will allow Greenify to inject itself further to keep applications that you choose to hibernate from being called upon by other applications (facebook for example has services that often get called upon by other applications for various reasons and so it can be hard to keep hibernated).
Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk

muzzy996 said:
I'm reminded of that saying "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." Not sure why your posts are so charged but many seasoned developers and posters aren't going to engage in conversation with someone who uses condesending and self righteous tones.
I've never seen detailed posting of how it works, nor do I care to know, but by installing Greenify you can effectively control what you wish to control. Greenify allows you to hibernate applications keeping them asleep until manually called.
Some applications have associated services that are used by other parts of the system or other applications and therefore stay loaded to provide that service. If you also install Xposed Framework it will allow Greenify to inject itself further to keep applications that you choose to hibernate from being called upon by other applications (facebook for example has services that often get called upon by other applications for various reasons and so it can be hard to keep hibernated).
Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sorry. I did not intentionally want to come off as charged or spraying vinegar. Quite the opposite. But I have found, after reading tons of post, that we are living in the land of the blind and hardly anyone with sight is actually participating or for that matter even providing a modicum of usefull data. Beginning to think that I don't blame them.
It seems, after deep searching and research that children are actually in charge. What other explanation can you give for an operating system that is struggling with "basic" features found in DOS or windows 3.1 from 20 years ago. Similar to the slow evolution of linux, itself which only now, barely, is win xp like in its features after decades as a skeletal nightmare to load and setup.
You may not have caught the news a few months ago, but Samsung was floating the idea of abandoning android for a flavored and skinned version of linux for future devices, both phones and tablets.p, starting with the China market.
Tell me that Microsoft did not head that off by providing reciprocal licensing to Samsung for windows 10 to abandoning linux. Would not be suprised if we start seeing win10 handsets in the near future here.
Once android looses support from major manufacturers, then it is DEAD.
Read every other post and you will see the lament about the quality of google store apps.
So when I ask a specific, technical question requiring a precise answer.....which requires actual proframming skill.....which has yet to appear...you can see how the lack of response to that colors the situation.
If I offended anyone, I apologize. I get excited sometimes. Repeatedly slamming ones head against the wall, figuratively tends to make you anxious.
At this rate, my raw participation on these boards may be curtailed if I continue with this sense of useless effort.
Sorry to make anyone upset. You can let the kids back in the room. I think there is ice cream.

Have you considered freezing the processes you want to prevent from running with Titanium Backup?

ShadowLea said:
Have you considered freezing the processes you want to prevent from running with Titanium Backup?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Titanium backup would work. The other option since you are rooted is to just remove the offending music app. I don't mind the samsung music app, but I don't find it absolutely necessary either. You could also uninstall the updates and force stop the app. That should also keep it from starting.
Another option that I haven't looked at completely but might work is the app "tasker" that lets you assign certain apps to start only when you want them too. So you could have the music app start only when you tap on media files. But I haven't tried this myself.
The problem currently with asking technical questions about the note pro is that it's a low selling device from 2014 so it just doesn't get much action on the forums anymore. It's a bummer for such a great device but that's how it is.

mjkurke said:
Titanium backup would work. The other option since you are rooted is to just remove the offending music app. I don't mind the samsung music app, but I don't find it absolutely necessary either. You could also uninstall the updates and force stop the app. That should also keep it from starting.
Another option that I haven't looked at completely but might work is the app "tasker" that lets you assign certain apps to start only when you want them too. So you could have the music app start only when you tap on media files. But I haven't tried this myself.
The problem currently with asking technical questions about the note pro is that it's a low selling device from 2014 so it just doesn't get much action on the forums anymore. It's a bummer for such a great device but that's how it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Low selling are not the words. More like abandoned. Samsung has moved away. My questions where android specific. "Freezing" apps, using a convoluted set of more apps to control unwanted apps, ridiculous. It is all ridiculous. Either root gives control or it does not.
I want full control, what runs, what doesn't, what runs in the background. Is that not why we root? So a comprehensive list of whats what WOULD RREEEAAAALLLLYYY HELP.
I am alone in the wilderness screaming at the trees demanding to know why it rains.
Do you understand?

Options like freezing in Titanium or using Greenify have already been addressed. Tasker is good for starting things but not so good at keeping things killed, not the proper tool to use for the job of keeping apps from loading.
My strategy:
1) Freeze anything that's safe to freeze that I know I'll never use in Titanium first. That way they never pre-cache into memory.
2) Greenify applications that I rarely use so that they don't pre-cache, taking care not to greenify applications that need to stay loaded to operate properly (like email clients, weather apps or messaging apps).
In the end on a clean boot my application/precache list is full of my commonly used apps. I worry not about how much free RAM I have, as long as the list of apps in RAM/cache is populated with the stuff that I commonly use.
NOW, all of that said if you're looking for something that works like windows startup manager then installing Xposed Framework and then BootManager is the way to go. I've done this in the past but find that employing freezing and greenify is good enough for my own needs so I've stopped.

globalsearch said:
Low selling are not the words. More like abandoned. Samsung has moved away. My questions where android specific. "Freezing" apps, using a convoluted set of more apps to control unwanted apps, ridiculous. It is all ridiculous. Either root gives control or it does not.
I want full control, what runs, what doesn't, what runs in the background. Is that not why we root? So a comprehensive list of whats what WOULD RREEEAAAALLLLYYY HELP.
I am alone in the wilderness screaming at the trees demanding to know why it rains.
Do you understand?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am starting to suspect you have greatly misunderstood the meaning of root access. From what it sounds like, you seem to think it miraculously gives you access to settings and functions that non-rooted users can't see. Which is why you can't seem to get the answers you seek.
There is no such thing as a root-menu. Android does not have that functionality build into its GUI.
Root access simply means administrator access to the system's root directories. Hence the word Root.
You will always need additional apps and software to root access to change functionality. Titanium Backup, Xposed, SuperUser/SuperSU, etcetera.
If you want those options in the system, you'll need a customROM.

ShadowLea said:
Root access simply means administrator access to the system's root directories. Hence the word Root.
You will always need additional apps and software to root access to change functionality. Titanium Backup, Xposed, SuperUser/SuperSU, etcetera.
If you want those options in the system, you'll need a customROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right and even with a custom ROM you can't run away from using 3rd party utilities to make the tweaks. Custom is usually a good start though as they are typically debloated. Civato's is good for lightly modified stock with xposed baked in.
Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk

Now we are getting somewhere. So what you have all told me is that stock android, even when rooted, is still a sandbox with all kinds of limitations to customization. Even with apps to tweak some of it.
This is the nail in the coffin for me and android then. Im not in the least interested in all those custom roms where there is always some shortcoming or lack of support for a feature that does not work properly.
Thanks all. I am done.

globalsearch said:
Now we are getting somewhere. So what you have all told me is that stock android, even when rooted, is still a sandbox with all kinds of limitations to customization. Even with apps to tweak some of it.
This is the nail in the coffin for me and android then. Im not in the least interested in all those custom roms where there is always some shortcoming or lack of support for a feature that does not work properly.
Thanks all. I am done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for what its worth I do have your answer, better late than never right?
anyways android is built on a linux kernal and normally access to the linux command line does not come pre-installed to keep normal people from messing up their system.
so you will need to download a terminal emulator app if you don't already have one if you plan to do this from android. (Alternatively you can do it from the android debug bridge while connected to a computer if preferred)
First you will want to get the package name for the app you want to disable.
you can do this with a root file browser app by going to system / Data / App and then finding the package you want to disable.
however since it sounds like you want to do this manually we will go over the terminal process:
open a terminal window.
type: su
Hit: enter
the terminal will ask you for root access, go ahead and grant it.
to list the android packages type: pm list packages
hit: enter
This will show a list of the installed packages (Apps)
find the ones you want to disable.
now type: pm disable insertpackagename
hit: enter
for example to disable youtube type: pm disable com.google.android.youtube
Hit: Enter
that's it.
you will likely want to restart your launcher or even just restart the tablet afterwards as most launchers don't constantly poll for disabled apps so it will need a refresh.
also you probably already realise this so I apologise if its redundant but make sure you know what you are disabling
as with any linux environment disabling system packages and packages that another application is dependant on can cause trouble.

firefly6240 said:
for what its worth I do have your answer, better late than never right?
anyways android is built on a linux kernal and normally access to the linux command line does not come pre-installed to keep normal people from messing up their system.
so you will need to download a terminal emulator app if you don't already have one if you plan to do this from android. (Alternatively you can do it from the android debug bridge while connected to a computer if preferred)
First you will want to get the package name for the app you want to disable.
you can do this with a root file browser app by going to system / Data / App and then finding the package you want to disable.
however since it sounds like you want to do this manually we will go over the terminal process:
open a terminal window.
type: su
Hit: enter
the terminal will ask you for root access, go ahead and grant it.
to list the android packages type: pm list packages
hit: enter
This will show a list of the installed packages (Apps)
find the ones you want to disable.
now type: pm disable insertpackagename
hit: enter
for example to disable youtube type: pm disable com.google.android.youtube
Hit: Enter
that's it.
you will likely want to restart your launcher or even just restart the tablet afterwards as most launchers don't constantly poll for disabled apps so it will need a refresh.
also you probably already realise this so I apologise if its redundant but make sure you know what you are disabling
as with any linux environment disabling system packages and packages that another application is dependant on can cause trouble.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finally. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

globalsearch said:
Low selling are not the words. More like abandoned. Samsung has moved away. My questions where android specific. "Freezing" apps, using a convoluted set of more apps to control unwanted apps, ridiculous. It is all ridiculous. Either root gives control or it does not.
I want full control, what runs, what doesn't, what runs in the background. Is that not why we root? So a comprehensive list of whats what WOULD RREEEAAAALLLLYYY HELP.
I am alone in the wilderness screaming at the trees demanding to know why it rains.
Do you understand?
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Click to collapse
Just thought I would clarify a bit here, I know how confusing it can be coming from windows, I made the switch myself not so many years ago and had a lot of the same questions.
to explain root, the closest comparison I have imperfect as it may be is that root access is similar to windows admin access.
the noticeable difference in a lot of cases is what comes pre-installed.
for example in windows if you have an admin account it automatically unlocks access to the command prompt which was already pre-installed.
in android root access gives you the option to use a terminal but often one is not pre-installed, in fact even a file manager is often not included.
this is actually not a limitation of android so much as a limitation put in place by the specific device manufacturer as to what comes pre-installed.
for example a lot of cheap android tablets running google AOSP (Android open source Project) code actually do come with terminal apps and in some cases even come pre-loaded with root access.
in comparison a lot of more well known devices do not come with this pre-loaded to prevent people from breaking things. (For a windows comparison, its hard to delete the system32 folder without admin access, a file browser and command prompt right?)
As far as samsung abandonment, its a bit trickier there.
Basically what you would normally be used to is the Microsoft scenario.
1. Microsoft - Microsoft makes the OS but it runs on hardware made by others.
a. hardware issues go to the hardware manufacturer for as long as they support it.
b. OS updates are handled by Microsoft, they have more or less full control of the OS as it is closed source.
2. the Samsung Scenario - The hardware is made by the manufacturer, the bootloaders are locked, the OS is made by Google and then tweaked by the manufacturer.
a. all official updates come through the manufacturer (In this case Samsung) after google releases the open source code, samsung then alters it as they like and then they release an update.
b. Samsung is the sole support for the hardware and software as google no longer supports the software for the most part after its been altered.
c. it takes a lot of time and work for samsung to develop an update and push it out and then deal with all of the issues that come with updating the OS.
d. its often easier to leave a device that comparatively very few people bought on an OS that they knew was usable rather than spend all the time and money updating it and dealing with all of the related issues.
With that in mind this tablet has been out for about 2 years now which is a huge amount of time for this type of hardware.
All that being said Samsung very recently released the update to android 5.1.1 for this tablet
so it is definitely not abandoned yet, in fact its had more attention than even other devices by the same manufacturer but I suspect 5.1.1 will be the last official update we see.
if you have one of the note variants with an unlockable bootloader as well as a bit of time on your hands I would very much recommend trying a custom rom if you are worried about samsung abandonment.
you may have to try several different ones though, as you'll find a mix of roms that may seem almost half baked, more alpha release style but are cutting edge (I like those ones myself) to roms that are even more stable than the original.
My apologies if some of this is redundant information, I just thought I would throw in my two cents in case it helps

Two points . . for what its worth . . 1) the use of package manager's disable command effectively does the same thing that freezing in Titanium does, the main difference being that you're using a GUI to do it (there can be differences in how the apps are flagged though and using the pm command means not having to rely on yet another app); 2) disabling/freezing means you'll be unable to ever launch said application unless you enable the app again manually (using the package manager PM commands or Titanium).
Main reason in my initial response I didn't go straight to freezing/disabling apps is because that approach isn't exactly the same thing as managing startup in the context of the example given about managing what apps start up on boot in Windows (i.e. msconfig command and unchecking startup options). When someone takes an app out of startup in Windows the software isn't permanently disabled (unavailable) it is merely prevented from preloading when the system is started. So . . in reference to the music app referred to in the original post, if the goal is to be able to use the stock music app but just not have it load itself into memory on its own then the solution isnt disabling it or freezing it, its to hibernate it with something like Greenify or prevent it from starting using something like Boot Manager and Xposed Framework.

Firefly6240 got exactly what I was asking for. Freezing and hybernating, et al, is not total control. When i kill an app and i want it gone. I want it gone. Example, the google music, google books and google films. I gave stopped, killed even "uninstalled" in Purify and in Kingroot. On random reboot, the buggers are back. Fireflys solution is ceasars thumbs down. Wonderful. He understood the TOTAL control I was looking for.
Also, i loaded android terminal to run the commands.
By the way, Knox and EML are next on my list.
Thanks again firefly6420

globalsearch said:
Firefly6240 got exactly what I was asking for. Freezing and hybernating, et al, is not total control. When i kill an app and i want it gone. I want it gone. Example, the google music, google books and google films. I gave stopped, killed even "uninstalled" in Purify and in Kingroot. On random reboot, the buggers are back. Fireflys solution is ceasars thumbs down. Wonderful. He understood the TOTAL control I was looking for.
Also, i loaded android terminal to run the commands.
By the way, Knox and EML are next on my list.
Thanks again firefly6420
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Click to collapse
OK good, then I misunderstood the question. Hibernation has its place, it's just not what you wanted, you wanted complete uninstallation basically.
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like it or not, OEMs, even Google cannot just give the public ready-made controls to such things because the way a lot of (non-essential but) pre-installed apps are designed they depends on other apps being present and/or running.
AppOps was a classic example cuz once ppl found it and made public how to take advantage, a lot of dependant apps and services were affected and people called in to their OEMs complaining of broken phones when it was simply tinkered permissions.
there is no mobile OS more robust than android. all have their forms of depth, appeal, features and restrictions but none embrace admin access & leaving open the ability to do it more than android (just need the carrier and sometimes OEM to leave the bootloader the hell alone lol)
if you want a smartphone with admin privileges out-of-the-box and full control of all system services etc, I would recommend an Ubuntu phone. they're about a year into commercial availability which is still kinda fringe but stable and will lack certain major perks of owning either iOS (yuck!) or Android. there is a couple Ubuntu/android dual boot phones out there too, and that comes with the issue of storage space after holding 2 OS's
in another year or 2 Ubuntu phones should be more plentiful and bring over some popular apps and active development but I don't anticipate seeing it take off quite like other mobile OS's cuz when it comes to feeding the masses, more options and less restrictions can have the same effect as asking an 80 year old to put in an address on your navigation in the car while you're on the highway. it's a learning curve simple to some that seems too simple not to understand but can be bad for business.
I think android and iOS beat this problem initially because when they started, there weren't any other well-established alternatives. BlackBerry and some fringe PDAs were about it...

Note pro 12.2
I was/am dealing with the Note Pro 12.2 specifically. Not other handsets. This device is coming up on two years and support has been waning. When I bought it all was well. Less than a few months later the damned KitKat update came and suddenly I found myself without proper access to the external sd card, that had worked perfectly when i purchased the unit. I was furious. Especially when we where being told that it was for our own good and google was pushing internal memory over external. Damn them. I bought samsung BECAUSE it had the sd slot. And when Samsung did not provide the fix to the platform.xml file I was livid. 5.01 came out and Samsung destoyed support for most external blue tooth keyboards. And so it goes, one stupid blunder after another. Their updates destroyed my workflow.
So yes, damned right I want full control of my device, because they have shown they have NO regard for our needs and DO NOT ADDRESS our concerns. Just buy our stuff and shut up. Well in this case, i was sold a product that they later incapacitated.
I can not abide with that. I tried so hard not to root, for a year and a half. I shut off automatic updates on EVERYTHING because even updates from google play would sometimes destroy a goid priducy. I started saving apks from versions of apps that worked. I stayed stock 4.4.2 because everything worked but the sd write. How many threads do we have here where people upgraded to marshmellow and then begged to get back to kitkat? Last week after reading thread after thread of problems and convoluted fixes and a gazillion rom versions each of which has its own imperfections and then reading that the new samsung tablet was released windows 10. I knew it was over.
At that moment the decision was inevitable. I rooted and IMMEDIATELY fixed the sd write issue. And i unrooted. Two days of random reboots and i roited again, this time to take the bull by the hirns and control this thing. I became increasingly frustrated with the lack of displayed technical knowledge here at xda and the tons pf advice from also clueless posters. I tried everything. Even got scolded by an admin who has been here less time than me. (Follow the rules, follow the rules...don't you dare to ask the important questions)
Not till the reply from firefly6240. Now he knows something. And he shared a little with me. Which i greatly appreciated. I have a direction now. And the tweaks I have done have increased my battery tije, the screen reojse time and overall improvement of the environment. All on 4.4.2.
I still have some minor issues, but google and android code monkeys WILL NO LONGER CONTROL MY DEVICE, MY PROPERTY.
It is time people take control of the ELECTRONIC items which we purchase with OUR hard earned money and stop letting manufacturers turn those devices into nothing more than sales portals to make more money and deny us control or the ability to JUST SAY NO.