Related
Hi,
I have been an i9003 user for a long time now. But, since I bought the phone I have been constantly having problems with it. I have taken my phone to Samsung service several times for problems such as unable to sync push notifications, GPS not working, dead display, bad lock key and recently the boot loop also known as the pseudo reset problem.
All in all, I have made around 10-12 trips to several service centers in Delhi, India. Finally to my surprise, Samsung told me that they'll not service my phone as they thought it was working fine and all those problems are actually added features on the phone.
I have also seen a good number of users on this forum constantly having such problem (especially the pseudo reset and push notification) . Therefore, I thought why not ask the i9003 users here, Can we file a lawsuit against Samsung in India for such a phone with inherent hardware problems? If yes, how can we progress with it?
surely go ahead.
vishal24387 said:
surely go ahead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think what he meant was start a class action lawsuit.
Sent from my GT-I9003 using XDA
Yes, I meant a class action lawsuit. I have already tried sending them letters and emails but they don't respond. Moreover, problems like pseudo reset, bad GPS and internal SD failure are signs of bad quality hardware. (causing loss of crucial data and contacts)
Plus I have suffered a lot from their bad service and poor management. This was my first high end device (at least for me) but it shattered all my hopes and I believe it is the same for a lot of users here. If all of the users with these problems come forward, it will substantiate our claims and maybe we will force Samsung to do a call back for this device. (which might also help all the people who are out of warranty and can't afford the expensive replacement of the MB)
yep go ahead . hope you have the proof of service center visits/ job sheets. If you can prove that you have to service center numerous time then you may easily win .also there is a big chance that halfway through the case Samsung will try to settle with you and will probably offer you full refund.
tamoghno said:
yep go ahead . hope you have the proof of service center visits/ job sheets. If you can prove that you have to service center numerous time then you may easily win .also there is a big chance that halfway through the case Samsung will try to settle with you and will probably offer you full refund.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am taking about a class action lawsuit, which will involve all the users having these issues.
Ulfric said:
I am taking about a class action lawsuit, which will involve all the users having these issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
count me in! my sl is faulty as well. twice been sent to the service center, due to faulty board miscommunication with int. sd and short circuit. repair time also took long (about a month and a week on my second repair) eating up my warranty dates.
Wahaha123 said:
count me in! my sl is faulty as well. twice been sent to the service center, due to faulty board miscommunication with int. sd and short circuit. repair time also took long (about a month and a week on my second repair) eating up my warranty dates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for showing interest, but I am looking for i9003 owners in India with hardware issues and unsatisfactory service. (maybe advantageous to owners in other countries if we get a judgment in our favor)
I believe we should not settle for cheap hardware as we paid a good premium for this device. The issue of pseudo reset is happening to almost every other user and may happen all of a sudden to any user causing loss of messages, contacts and settings (also FC in many apps).
Hell Yeah!!!
I am with you.. But How to proceed? Have u talked to any lawyer?
Lawyers and all that is a mess.. Just file a complaint at the consumer forum and we'll join u on the same complaint..
Yup, create a thread on http://www .consumer courtforum.in/f50/ (remove spaces) and others will follow. No need to ask any lawyer. If we succeed we all can get full refund, or even indemnity for the phone (OR maybe nothing ).
kajal_palpara said:
I am with you.. But How to proceed? Have u talked to any lawyer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ivAnash said:
Lawyers and all that is a mess.. Just file a complaint at the consumer forum and we'll join u on the same complaint..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One thing I know for sure is that they won't give you any refund or replacement through the service channel. Their service managers are like collection agents they'll even harass you so that they don't have to give you a refund/replacement.
I sent them a legal notice more than a week back but haven't heard back from them. It's been about three months since I am pursuing this issue. But, I am yet to file a complaint in a consumer forum.
As I said earlier a class action lawsuit will substantiate everybody's claim. I'll try and get some professional legal advice and get back to everyone of you through PM. Thanks for showing support!
santoshsadani009 said:
Yup, create a thread on http://www .consumer courtforum.in/f50/ (remove spaces) and others will follow. No need to ask any lawyer. If we succeed we all can get full refund, or even indemnity for the phone (OR maybe nothing ).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the link, is it an official consumer court discussion forum? All, I have seen is people making complaints without any follow up.
Update
Me and my lawyer had a long chat with Mr. Sumit, Area Service Manager at Samsung, Delhi (you can find his contact details via google). He blatantly refused receiving any letters and notice and also said that they won't be providing any refund or replacement even though it's a recurring issue. Therefore, I am proceeding with the case in the Consumer Forum.
Anybody interested in doing the same can contact me here or via PM. I have contacted a few people on the consumer court forum as suggested by santoshsadani009. (There are many many people with the same problem and Samsung is shamelessly refusing that the problem exists). I'll be glad if someone from Delhi NCR comes forward and joins me in the lawsuit.
Ulfric said:
Update
Me and my lawyer had a long chat with Mr. Sumit, Area Service Manager at Samsung, Delhi (you can find his contact details via google). He blatantly refused receiving any letters and notice and also said that they won't be providing any refund or replacement even though it's a recurring issue. Therefore, I am proceeding with the case in the Consumer Forum.
Anybody interested in doing the same can contact me here or via PM. I have contacted a few people on the consumer court forum as suggested by santoshsadani009. (There are many many people with the same problem and Samsung is shamelessly refusing that the problem exists). I'll be glad if someone from Delhi NCR comes forward and joins me in the lawsuit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If i could, i would have followed you on the consumer forum even though being from different city. But fortunately (Or unfortunately ), I don't have the pseudo reset problem, which is the major problem for this phone. But i do have the push notification problem, and that's why I don't use my primary email with my phone and its really annoying to have to start the PC everytime to check emails.
Anyways, go ahead with the consumer forum website, i think its the best idea because i have seen companies such as nokia responding to the queries and problems on the forum.
santoshsadani009 said:
If i could, i would have followed you on the consumer forum even though being from different city. But fortunately (Or unfortunately ), I don't have the pseudo reset problem, which is the major problem for this phone. But i do have the push notification problem, and that's why I don't use my primary email with my phone and its really annoying to have to start the PC everytime to check emails.
Anyways, go ahead with the consumer forum website, i think its the best idea because i have seen companies such as nokia responding to the queries and problems on the forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am actually filing the case in my local consumer redressal forum. You can still support the case by providing a written statement that you face the issue. I'll attach it with my documents as a proof and will ask for proper compensation to all the affected users.
Hey guys, instead of only filling complaints with the FCC/Verizon, we should also be pursuing Samsung. I already went ahead and sent out a message on their contact site. It isn't a direct letter to a CEO or anything like that, but, one would believe that enough attention will get a letter slipped through the cracks.
Remember, use tact, type grammatically correct, and be extremely respectful. They may "work for us", and we may "own the product", but without them directly breaking a law, we have no reason to get out of line.
For those of you who have yet to file a complaint with the FCC, might as well spend the time doing that as well in the same sitting.
Here is the letter I sent, as well as the link to their form.
https://contactus.samsung.com/custo...MailQuestionProduct.jsp?SITE_ID=1&titleCode=1
Sir or Ma'am,
I am writing today in regards to the issue with the locked bootloader on the Verizon SCH-i535. In many regards this is one of the greatest phones I have ever used, I also have the Verizon Nexus device. My issue, along with thousands of other Verizon subscribers, is that we would like the capability to unlock the device for free use.
Verizon was just recently fined for not allowing certain apps like tethering to be used on the network by the FCC. I know this doesn't hold any relevance much to the bootloader, however, it seems as if with Verizon being the only network requiring such locks that there must be some other underlying decision. Manufacturers like HTC have taken measures to allow unlocking of their devices on Verizon with their HTC Developers portal. This may only be a personal, or small community opinion, but I believe the device would sell significantly better, at least among the knowledgeable developers/modders, if it was unlocked, or unlock-able.
There have been several petitions past around, as well as dozens of e-mails, tweets, and the like to try and understand why we are being forced to be locked down unlike the other carriers. It doesn't seem appropriate that the Galaxy Nexus should be capable of being unlocked, while this device cannot. How does locking one device prevent harming the "integrity" of the network? If this were truly an issue, I would assume any and every device would be locked before they were even introduced to the network, as well, other carriers would follow suit.
In a side note, many willing customers have been awaiting the "Developer Edition" device. We are all aware that there really is not difference between this device and ours, aside from being capable of unlocking. So, how can there be 2 of the same devices on the same network, yet the device we hold cannot be unlocked? It really seems as if you guys are trying to work FOR us, the customer, while Verizon is working against all of us.
In the end, really I am just another loyal customer curious as to if/when we could see a utility that would give us the capability of unlocking out device to use at our liking? We are all well aware that it may void our warranty, but in our eyes the benefit outweighs the risk.
I would like to ask politely if my concern be passed along to all of those that may be concerned, specifically Samsung Mobile US CEO and such.
Thank you all for your time, I look forward to a response.
Respectfully,
Andrew Lemacks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will do the same with your template. Thank you sir
No problem. This tactic has worked on HTC devices, I would assume Samsung should follow suit. Although, Samsung has less to lose.
Very nice letter, hopefully you can get a response or have your letter be passed along to somebody who can say something that doesn't sound like automated message.
Will do. Thank you!
Sent mine.
JetBlue said:
Very nice letter, hopefully you can get a response or have your letter be passed along to somebody who can say something that doesn't sound like automated message.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Realized auto-correct isn't automatically correct after re-reading it, lol. *out* instead of *our*
duxup said:
Will do. Thank you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
detta123 said:
Sent mine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome, the more the better.
Anyone who hasn't seen, you may want to follow up with using EDNYLaw's template for filing your complaint in about the best manner possible. He couldn't make it any easier! When they FCC gets flooded with complaints like that, it's a lot harder to look the other way as you shred what look like "legal" documents. Take the time people. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1820634&page=8
Good luck!
No need for luck.
Already sent the FCC complaint, not just did this as well.
Awesome, let's continue the push everyone!
Edit: tapatalk thinks I'm on a nexus, lol.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Looks like I got my reply.
Code:
Dear Chris,
Thank you for your inquiry about your Samsung Galaxy S® III (Verizon)(SCH-I535) and we understand that you're having concern with the locked bootloader of the phone.
We also understand that you're requesting to have the option to unlocked the bootloader of the phone, instead of purchasing a Verizon's Developers Edition Galaxy S3 phone.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you. We appreciate hearing from our customers, as your comments are vital for us to continue improving our products, as well as our business.
There is no configurable option on the handset to unlock the Bootloader, as this may affect the software of the phone and also can cause unstable performace. The phone was designed manufactured to the specifications of Verizon Wireless for whom they are produced. We will forward your feedback request to the appropriate parties for further review and consideration.
Do you have more questions regarding Samsung Mobile Phones and Accessories? For 24 hour information and assistance, we offer our new FAQ/ARS System - Automated Response System at http://www.samsung.com/support.
Thank you for your continued interest in Samsung products.
Sincerely,
Victor
Technical Support
I haven't even received a standard reply yet. I didn't even get an automated response stating they got my inquiry. I may need to resubmit, unless this means they are actually reading what we say and replying in kind.
ddggttff3 said:
Looks like I got my reply.
Code:
Dear Chris,
Thank you for your inquiry about your Samsung Galaxy S® III (Verizon)(SCH-I535) and we understand that you're having concern with the locked bootloader of the phone.
We also understand that you're requesting to have the option to unlocked the bootloader of the phone, instead of purchasing a Verizon's Developers Edition Galaxy S3 phone.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you. We appreciate hearing from our customers, as your comments are vital for us to continue improving our products, as well as our business.
There is no configurable option on the handset to unlock the Bootloader, as this may affect the software of the phone and also can cause unstable performace. The phone was designed manufactured to the specifications of Verizon Wireless for whom they are produced. We will forward your feedback request to the appropriate parties for further review and consideration.
Do you have more questions regarding Samsung Mobile Phones and Accessories? For 24 hour information and assistance, we offer our new FAQ/ARS System - Automated Response System at http://www.samsung.com/support.
Thank you for your continued interest in Samsung products.
Sincerely,
Victor
Technical Support
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AtLemacks said:
I haven't even received a standard reply yet. I didn't even get an automated response stating they got my inquiry. I may need to resubmit, unless this means they are actually reading what we say and replying in kind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never got a confirmation email from sending the message, but that showed up in my inbox today, so im guessing they are reading them one by one.
ddggttff3 said:
I never got a confirmation email from sending the message, but that showed up in my inbox today, so im guessing they are reading them one by one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well that is a good sign! Here's to hoping I get something good this weekend!
AtLemacks said:
Remember, use tact, type grammatically correct, and be extremely respectful. They may "work for us", and we may "own the product", but without them directly breaking a law, we have no reason to get out of line.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. This! 1,000 times this!
The fastest way to get any communication to a company round-filed is to be disrespectful, to not meticulously grammar-check your writing (seriously, have at least one other person check it for you before sending), and to resort to foul language of any sort (even milder stuff like "damn", "hell", etc can give your letter an offputting tone).
As AtLemacks said, they're not breaking the law, and they've done this under the direction of Verizon. As crappy as Samsung can be in the software arena, they are not ultimately to blame for this (though they could bear some culpability for not pushing back).
So please, check your writing, have someone else read it, read it again, put it down and go to bed for the night, then read it again when you get up in the morning before you send it out.
I got a response from Samsung today and I just had to post it here. My emotions as I initially saw that I had this but then started, and completed, reading it: :victory: -> ->:rofl: -> :crying:. I have not altered ANY of this email including the names. As you read it, keep in mind my letter was extremely polite and grammatically correct...and my name is NOT Rick.
Dear Rick,
Thank you for your inquiry. I see that that you have question of unlock the bootloader so you can customize the phone.
As of now We still do not have updates about that, and as of now verizon lock the bootloader.But if we have update about unlocking the bootloader will be posting it to the website so please do visit our website(www.samsung.com/us).
At your earliest convenience, please call Samsung Customer Support by phone at our toll free number 1-800-726-7864. Please choose the following options by pressing 1 – Customer, 2 – Tablet, and then 3 – Wi-Fi Galaxy Tablet.
We appreciate your continued interest in Samsung products.
Sincerely,
Claire
Technical Support
I got the good ole generic reply back too, that it has been forwarded. Now, if there is any weight to the statement, lets keep the push going and fill up a few e-mail inbox's!
I was playing around with disabling startup apps (to make ooodles more free RAM) after rooting my device, which is still locked mainly so I could retain the warrantee, and was searching for info on what CMClient and DMClient were and what they did, to see if I could safely and functionally disable them or not, and I ran across this post below on XDA. It states the title of this thread, ie: that Asus can void your warrantee for being rooted when you are still locked and cites the case of an XDA member who had it happen to him.
Asus Big Brother is watching your every move folks! If you've registered your device with Asus and you are rooted and didn't disable these apps they already know you are rooted and can/will void your warrantee based on being rooted alone even if you are still locked! This isn't some old thread, this was posted 08/12. Beware!!
***********************************************************************************
PS-If you are rooted you can disable CMClient and DMClient with apps like System Tuner and ROM Toolbox. But these are also the apps that make it possible to locate, shout, and wipe your remote device in case of theft but are being used by Asus in other ways for their and not our benefit. Kinda a double-edge sword.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1833442
***********************************************************************************
Also, if this is true as it appears to be [Edit: unsubstantiated], why do most of the rooting posts here on XDA claim that only unlocking voids the warrantee, and since rooting is "100% reversible", it does not. Who validates such statements?? XDA should do something about this to avoid misleading the masses who come here seeking a source for quality and valid information about their devices. I feel VERY misled by XDA after learning this. [Edit: Red underline bold removed]
Comments?
elfaure said:
Who validates such statements?? XDA should do something about this to avoid misleading the masses who come here seeking a source for quality and valid information about their devices. I feel VERY misled by XDA after learning this.
Comments?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whom do you intend to impress with red underlined bold text? Forum posts are not official XDA statements. This is a community. You should not blindly believe what you read. Not only on this forum.
What would you suggest XDA to do to ensure only correct information is provided? How did you validate the story of the one user who allegedly got his warranty rejected for rooting? Did you count how many users were rooted and got a warranty repair without issues?
Warning: This post contains false information, including this sentence.
There's nothing like a good panic attack someone else suffers. Never had I heard about rooting affecting your warranty, and as _that has alreay stated, there have been LOTS of owners having had no issues at all RMA'ing their rooted devices.
Things to take home:
1) ANYONE can post ANYTHING on the web. ANYTHING. I am confronted professionally by this kind of biased false information on a pretty much (work-)daily basis.
2) Look up a nice introductory work on statistics - it will serve you well the rest of your life. I gleefully quote Samuel L. Clemens (better known under his writer's pseudonym, Mark Twain): "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Look, more panic-induced rubbish. What is this, the Daily Mail?
Rooting doesn't void warranty as far as I know, considering pretty much everyone here is rooted (myself not included), and quite a lot of them have had to RMA and had no issue.
Unlocking voids warranty, yes. The same way opening up any device does (which is pretty much what unlocking does in a digital sense.).
There is, however, a law in process (or has it already been pushed through?) that renders rooting illegal in the USA. About as illegal as removing the simlock used to be, and we all did that anyway, too.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
This is probably a random nip picking from Asus support, someone at Asus decided to pick on rooting, but again this is a very small and isolated incident case if it did happen. My suggestion is to play it safe, by make sure you flash your device back to factory stock (remove root), before send it back for RMA. Problem solved!!
ShadowLea said:
There is, however, a law in process (or has it already been pushed through?) that renders rooting illegal in the USA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Incorrect. The law that just took effect makes it illegal to unlock (jailbreak) a phone or tablet to use on a different carrier while you're under contract. It is not illegal to unlock or root a device for any other purpose.
_that said:
Whom do you intend to impress with red underlined bold text? Forum posts are not official XDA statements. This is a community. You should not blindly believe what you read. Not only on this forum.
What would you suggest XDA to do to ensure only correct information is provided? How did you validate the story of the one user who allegedly got his warranty rejected for rooting? Did you count how many users were rooted and got a warranty repair without issues?
Warning: This post contains false information, including this sentence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How many damn posts do I need before I can edit a post without having to wait two (2) minutes?
0. Thanks for all your feedback and constructive/destructive criticism. Exactly what I was looking for. Many different perspectives and new info on this topic. Great to find out this is seemingly an isolated incident if indeed it actually occurred at all.
1. Not looking to impress or offend anyone, simply directing your attention to the bolded items. As users scroll thru posts I want to draw their short attention span to the highlighted items so they don't miss the theme of the post and don't scroll past to the next post without mentally filing the highlighted items and to prompt them to comment if they have opinion or information. Seems to have worked well.
2. Point well taken. I know XDA can't police all threads and I did not validate the one users story. And I agree I should have posted this as more of a question than a statement. All I am seeking is the truth about this issue. I don't "blindly believe everything I read" in fact quite the contrary, hence the reason for this post. Your feedback was useful in determining that this post is not generally true for the majority of rooted members. I am very happy to learn this and I will revise my original post accordingly.
3. Good to know that many rooted users have RMA'd without issue. I now rest much easier with root. And in my opinion it should NOT void my warrantee as I am still prevented from damaging the device (can't flash custom ROMS, kernels, overclock or alter bootloader with just root; need to unlocked bootloader for these features which does understandably void warrantee)
buhohitr said:
This is probably a random nip picking from Asus support, someone at Asus decided to pick on rooting, but again this is a very small and isolated incident case if it did happen. My suggestion is to play it safe, by make sure you flash your device back to factory stock (remove root), before send it back for RMA. Problem solved!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great to hear and thanks for your feeback!
MartyHulskemper said:
There's nothing like a good panic attack someone else suffers. Never had I heard about rooting affecting your warranty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nor had I. That is why I was shocked to run across the link in this post.
I'm writing this message since a lot of people are probably thinking that their warranty is still intact, since a lot of posts here and elsewhere claim that it is.
Before I unlocked my Telus One X, I wanted to be sure my warranty would be honored so I read all the materials I could, including the warranty text, the message on HTCDev.com, and various posts on this, and other forums.
Everything indicated that the warranty would only apply to direct consequences of the unlocked bootloader, eg: bricking your phone. This is reasonable, and it would be reasonable to assume that hardware defects would continue to be covered. I'm totally OK with that.
However, it seems that this is not, in fact, the case.
My One X recently started having a backlight issue, where squeezing the phone in the middle would cause the backlight to go out. Eventually, the backlight stopped working altogether, though I could see the screen if I looked hard enough in the right light, and it played sounds and received calls normally. I brought it in to my Telus dealer for repair and, since I'm in Canada, it was shipped to a company called FutureTel.
After a week, I had to chase down the status of my repair. Essentially FutureTel stated, according to the representative at the Telus dealer, that the phone was "beyond repair" and gave me the option of buying a replacement phone. I was given no more information.
This didn't make sense to me, so I started calling around to all involved. The dealer told me to call Telus.
Telus: We have nothing to do with that. The dealer sent it to HTC. You need to call HTC.
This is where it starts getting extremely odd...
HTC: We don't warranty these phones. We sell them to Telus/Rogers/Bell, and they "modify" them so we have nothing to do with it. We can't even provide a warranty due to this modification. For warranties, they contract FutureTel. You need to call them directly, here's their number
FutureTel: The warranty was denied due to "illegal software." (I asked what law was violated, and she wouldn't elaborate) We only handle warranties based on HTC policies. They are the only party that actually provides the warranty. Call them
HTC (again): Previous HTC guy was wrong. We set the policy, and the policy states that "If you root the device, your warranty is void."
This really bugged me, since I didn't see any such statement on any documentation from HTC or Telus, so I asked for clarification: "Where is this stated, and what, exactly, does it say?"
He responded with a lot of vague "in the warranty", and "on our website" answers but could not definitively find any such statement. I quoted the text from HTCDev.com and he said that didn't matter. It's the warranty, and directed me to a page on their website under support listing the warranty policies.
There is a curious omission of Canada in the list, and we went back and forth many times with him claiming I followed his instructions wrong before he eventually said, "just look at the United States one."
The thing is, It doesn't actually state what is claimed to be stated in that document, despite claims that it did. Under "LIMITED WARRANTY STATEMENT" Section 7, it lists the instances that void the warranty. Nothing about unlocking or bootloaders or software of any kind.
I kept asking for the exact section that voids the warranty, and eventually, he pointed to a section under the software EULA:
ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE THAT MAY BE PROVIDED WITH THE
SOFTWARE IS INCLUDED FOR USE AT YOUR OPTION. IF YOU CHOOSE
TO USE SUCH THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE, THEN SUCH USE SHALL BE
GOVERNED BY SUCH THIRD PARTY’S LICENSE AGREEMENT. HTC IS NOT
RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY THIRD PARTY’S SOFTWARE AND SHALL HAVE NO
LIABILITY FOR YOUR USE OF THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are familiar with EULAs and agreements, you know what this means: The phone comes with software preloaded that wasn't written by HTC: eg: Facebook. If you use that software, then it's own license will be in effect. Read this as: "Facebook is responsible for their own software. We just handed it to you"
No matter what I tried, I couldn't get the guy to accept the actual interpretation of the passage and he continued to state that it means that if I "use any 3rd-party software, the warranty is void."
Right then.
I asked for an escalation in hopes of getting someone who can parse the English language. Unfortunately, I got the same thing. She pointed to the exact same passage, claiming that it voids the warranty. I tried to point out how ridiculous that reading was: "With your interpretation, that means that any software I install, even via the Play store, voids the warranty." Her response: "It says nothing about apps."
Great. That section is entirely about apps...
So, I asked them that if this is the case, then to please amend the text on HTCDev.com to state clearly that the warranty is void if you continue. She said she would pass that along. (right...)
So here is the bottom line: HTC WILL NOT COVER YOUR PHONE IF YOU UNLOCK THE BOOTLOADER. If you are worried about your warranty and you are considering using HTCDev to unlock it, do not assume you will be covered as many other posts state.
If you want coverage, and you want to unlock, you really only have 2 options:
Unlock using another method that does not "mark" the phone
Get 3rd-party coverage from you provider or somewhere else. It seems that people have had good luck with those, despite bootloader status
I thought this was mentioned and must be agreed upon as soon as the HTCDev unlock process begins.
jacobas92 said:
I thought this was mentioned and must be agreed upon as soon as the HTCDev unlock process begins.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is all it says on the matter:
It is our responsibility to caution you that not all claims resulting or caused by or from the unlocking of the bootloader may be covered under warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also:
Please understand that you will not be able to return your device to the original state and going forward your device may not be held covered under the warranty for all claims resulting from the unlocking of the bootloader. HTC bears no responsibility if your device is no longer usable afterwards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And:
This is a technical procedure and the side effects could possibly necessitate repairs to your device not covered under warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It specifically mentions issues related to the unlocking in all cases. There is no text that specifically voids the entire warranty at any point in the process. Also, in searches of XDA and other sites, I found MANY posts claiming that hardware issues are still covered and to have at it. I wanted to warn people about these posts since they come up at the the top when you Google it.
There are threads where people say they have gotten repairs, but it seems that they most likely had 3rd-party warranties via the carrier. (Sprint and Verizon both came up.)
When I unlocked my bootloader, I thought it was pretty clear that my warranty was void.
If youre unlocking your bootloader, you should at least have enough understanding of software and hardware to know that it's not hard to blame most hardware issues on software modifications. Obviously a large company will avoid added costs if they can.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
ILiPri case
exad said:
When I unlocked my bootloader, I thought it was pretty clear that my warranty was void.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on what, though? I, along with many others, saw no reason to expect the whole warranty to be void, especially since there is no language to indicate this.
If you're talking about HTC not helping you if you brick your phone, then of course we would all expect that, and the language specifically says so.
A LOT of people are on these forums claiming that the phones WILL be covered for hardware defects, and this is not the case.
The worst part is that they are pointing to language relating to 3rd-party software that is pre-loaded by HTC themselves as the reason they won't honor the warranty. If this is how they are claiming that section is to be interpreted, then they can point to anybody who installed literally anything from the Play Store and say the warranty is void.
I'm not saying what they're doing is right. I'm just saying it's to be expected. I have yet to see such thing as a morally sound company.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
Same exact thing happened to my phone, and a few other peoples. Seems weird.
Sent from my Nexus 4
jimfunk said:
Based on what, though? I, along with many others, saw no reason to expect the whole warranty to be void, especially since there is no language to indicate this.
If you're talking about HTC not helping you if you brick your phone, then of course we would all expect that, and the language specifically says so.
A LOT of people are on these forums claiming that the phones WILL be covered for hardware defects, and this is not the case.
The worst part is that they are pointing to language relating to 3rd-party software that is pre-loaded by HTC themselves as the reason they won't honor the warranty. If this is how they are claiming that section is to be interpreted, then they can point to anybody who installed literally anything from the Play Store and say the warranty is void.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's pretty much common sense. You're messing with a phone and changing software that is unofficial to the phone. There's reasons why it flags the phone in the hboot. If you brick you may be lucky enough to fool your provider and get a free one back but same with iPhones. If you break your phone while it is jailbroken and don't restore it before you take it to apple they won't repair your phone without a cost. It's still pretty much common sense
Sent from my HTC One XL using xda app-developers app
Megadoug13 said:
It's pretty much common sense. You're messing with a phone and changing software that is unofficial to the phone. There's reasons why it flags the phone in the hboot. If you brick you may be lucky enough to fool your provider and get a free one back but same with iPhones. If you break your phone while it is jailbroken and don't restore it before you take it to apple they won't repair your phone without a cost. It's still pretty much common sense
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's common sense if I brick it, but not if there's a hardware defect, especially when the unlock was provided by HTC. There is also no language in any of the agreements that voids the warranty.
Not familiar with Apple, but if I buy a notebook and install Linux on it, my warranty is still intact, even though I replaced the bootloader. I've gone through that multiple times.
Finally, the whole point of this post was to make people aware that HTC won't honor the warranty, since there are many threads here where people say they will. I read those threads, along with all of the warranty information, and the text on HTCDev.com, before I went ahead with it. There was nothing official to indicate the warranty was void, and in fact many people suggested it would be honored.
jimfunk said:
Not familiar with Apple, but if I buy a notebook and install Linux on it, my warranty is still intact, even though I replaced the bootloader. I've gone through that multiple times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Comparing apples and oranges. You're partitioning and overwriting rewriteable Disk Space. This does not cause any damage. A better comparison would be flashing a modified bios on a videocard or motherboard which is ALSO NOT COVERED by any manufacturer.
When overwriting Read only memory, there is more risk involved and it takes skilled people to restore and repair. Software is specifically designed to work with the hardware contained within. This is also one of the reasons your phone OS may seem zippier than your PC.
I can completely understand why a company would not warrant a phone that's been messed with. It's difficult to narrow down the cause and eventhough some hardware failures are unlikely to be caused by unlocking your bootloader it can be difficult to determine. Then after they've spent time and money determining if bootloader unlocking is the cause of the hardware defect, the customer may not even want to pay to have it fixed.
exad said:
I can completely understand why a company would not warrant a phone that's been messed with. It's difficult to narrow down the cause and eventhough some hardware failures are unlikely to be caused by unlocking your bootloader it can be difficult to determine. Then after they've spent time and money determining if bootloader unlocking is the cause of the hardware defect, the customer may not even want to pay to have it fixed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it's obvious that the cause was a manufacturing defect, the software doesn't matter.
In any case, the warranty text, and the text on HTCDev.com are clearly stated, regardless of what is "obvious" to you. There is NO reading of the materials that indicates that the warranty is void, and there ARE people out there telling others that it would be covered.
The whole purpose of a pre-defined agreement is that everybody knows where they stand BEFORE entering into that agreement. Neither party can change the rules afterwards, or enact hidden policies without ensuring that all parties are informed. There are laws in the US and Canada for exactly this kind of thing. If the whole thing was solely up to the discretion of the manufacturer, there wouldn't be warranty agreements in the first place.
jimfunk said:
If it's obvious that the cause was a manufacturing defect, the software doesn't matter.
In any case, the warranty text, and the text on HTCDev.com are clearly stated, regardless of what is "obvious" to you. There is NO reading of the materials that indicates that the warranty is void, and there ARE people out there telling others that it would be covered.
The whole purpose of a pre-defined agreement is that everybody knows where they stand BEFORE entering into that agreement. Neither party can change the rules afterwards, or enact hidden policies without ensuring that all parties are informed. There are laws in the US and Canada for exactly this kind of thing. If the whole thing was solely up to the discretion of the manufacturer, there wouldn't be warranty agreements in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*Shrug*
"There are those who will insist on disabling S-ON purely to have full access regardless of security implications or to primarily promote specific tools and installation techniques that have taken the more convenient route of assuming all security is off. If a command line tool is deemed as inconvenient, developers can easily develop alternatives that would allow others to install their custom roms without having to alter their device’s Security-ON status. As duly noted in the accompanying email with your unlock_code.bin, please remember that unlocking your bootloader may void all or parts of your warranty and your device may not function as intended by HTC. Unlocking the bootloader is for development purposes only."
pulled that from FAQ on HTCDEV.com
exad said:
may void all or parts of your warranty and your device may not function as intended by HTC. Unlocking the bootloader is for development purposes only[/B]."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This language is vague, and feeds the apparent consensus on these forums that HTC will still honor manufacturing defects as long as it's obviously not caused by the unlocking.
The reason legal language is written the way it is, is to ensure that the terms are clear. If they want to make it known that it will void the warranty, they should use different language, such as "unlocking your bootloader WILL void your warranty and your device may not function as intended by HTC"
This ambiguity has led to incorrect information being passed on these forums and showing up in Google searches on the topic.
It sounds like you are misreading the purpose of my post as a "poor me" story. It is not. I am taking my lumps and getting my phone fixed elsewhere. I simply wanted to make sure that anybody else curious about the topic will find some clear information when they search, instead of finding the many other posts that state that the warranty IS covered.
jimfunk said:
This language is vague, and feeds the apparent consensus on these forums that HTC will still honor manufacturing defects as long as it's obviously not caused by the unlocking.
The reason legal language is written the way it is, is to ensure that the terms are clear. If they want to make it known that it will void the warranty, they should use different language, such as "unlocking your bootloader WILL void your warranty and your device may not function as intended by HTC"
This ambiguity has led to incorrect information being passed on these forums and showing up in Google searches on the topic.
It sounds like you are misreading the purpose of my post as a "poor me" story. It is not. I am taking my lumps and getting my phone fixed elsewhere. I simply wanted to make sure that anybody else curious about the topic will find some clear information when they search, instead of finding the many other posts that state that the warranty IS covered.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, while I whole heartedly agree that more people should know this, I doubt many will find this thread before it's too late.
if the device is s-off, the tampered message can be removed, ruu can be installed, the s-on flag can be set again, and the bootloader can be re-locked. That would remove any trace of root or unlocked bootloader.
I sent my devices back relocked, ruu'ed to the tampered flag was removed, and s-off for a microphone problem and HTC fixed it under warranty.
I think it depends on country, but in the end if you believe HTC/telus is breaking a contract or other laws you should get a lawyer and prove your point.
In Australia, where I live, the warranty is from the place of purchase and extends for a length of time that can be reasonably expected for that device.
Manufacturer warranties are not law and are purely given by manufacturers in good faith. If I buy from Telstra, Telstra must give a warranty and the warranty at least extends for the length of a contract the phone was puchased with eg 2 years.
Telstra having arrangments with HTC to fix warranty issues is upto Telstra and htc, it has zero to do with the customers statutory warranty from Telstra that is covered and protected by Australian consumer law.
Telstra can not void the devices warranty based on unlocking the bootloader.
Similar Harvey Norman's cannot void based on a void sticker over a screw being broken on a tv set.
Sent from my HTC One XL using xda app-developers app
ImagioX1 said:
I sent my devices back relocked, ruu'ed to the tampered flag was removed, and s-off for a microphone problem and HTC fixed it under warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm about to relock my phone, apply the ruu files and send it in for warranty. I was wondering if there is a thread to a proper proceedures in doing so? More to the point what you did with removing the tampered flag. If you were successful then would you mind giving more advice as to how.
Aren't disclaimers about our voided warranty posted all over forums?
Sent from my One X using xda app-developers app
dethpikil said:
Aren't disclaimers about our voided warranty posted all over forums?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They also say your phone might experience explosions of puppy kisses. What is said on these forums has no bearing on warranty status in any country.
At best they are advice related to warranty status as the dev understands in their own country.
I think in most cases it is based on what is understood to be the case in USA. A country known to offer very little consumer protection.
Like many here, I bought a "foreign" phone.
Like some, it needed repair.
Unlike most(?), I just found out that you can't have your phone (oficially) repaired outside of its intended market. You just can't.
This, regardless of whether the parts you need are market specific or not, or whether the phone is under warranty or not.
It's simply just not possible, and it's not even up to the good will of the repair center.
And if you're thinking "it's ok, I'll just send it to wherever it came from, pay whatever shipping fees and go through any customs import/export hassle, and be cool about it", well...
I've got news for you:
You still can't. As I've been told by their online support, you simply just can't do that, either; you'll have to have someone to send it to, so that they then can send it for repair on their own. That's the only way you can have it repaired abroad.
So, good luck if you're travelling, half way across the world, and need your phone repaired asap.
This is how things work smack in the middle of the XXI century, with the leading brand in the world, as well as with every other brands. Except for...
Apple.
So, bottom line is diss Apple all you want for whatever reason, but the fact is, at least on this particular, it seems it's the only brand with a minimally acceptable customer support policy for these days and age.
Wonder how many of you are aware of this.
Think XDA should address this issue and raise awareness with an article?
cmmx said:
Like many here, I bought a "foreign" phone.
Like some, it needed repair.
Unlike most(?), I just found out that you can't have your phone (oficially) repaired outside of its intended market. You just can't.
This, regardless of whether the parts you need are market specific or not, or whether the phone is under warranty or not.
It's simply just not possible, and it's not even up to the good will of the repair center.
And if you're thinking "it's ok, I'll just send it to wherever it came from, pay whatever shipping fees and go through any customs import/export hassle, and be cool about it", well...
I've got news for you:
You still can't. As I've been told by their online support, you simply just can't do that, either; you'll have to have someone to send it to, so that they then can send it for repair on their own. That's the only way you can have it repaired abroad.
So, good luck if you're travelling, half way across the world, and need your phone repaired asap.
This is how things work smack in the middle of the XXI century, with the leading brand in the world, as well as with every other brands. Except for...
Apple.
So, bottom line is diss Apple all you want for whatever reason, but the fact is, at least on this particular, it seems it's the only brand with a minimally acceptable customer support policy for these days and age.
Wonder how many of you are aware of this.
Think XDA should address this issue and raise awareness with an article?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Understood all, but how is it XDA issue, XDA doesn't monitor where, how or who, Members purchase from or where to get your devices repaired.
This is solely on the Users/Members. If others are in this situation, doing their own homework on the type of device they purchase i.e. if repairs are needed or where to get repairs or the type of development, that is solely on them.
Again, I see and understand your thought, but XDA doesnt play a part of what kind of devices Members get and where to get them repaired.
I believe you can claim warranty/repair in another country within Europe only.
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Apple does have the same issue if you don't have an apple store in your country... I live in Argentina and Apple request you send personally the phone to some apple store in other countries... you cannot just ship it to them.
Sent from S.G. S9 Plus Duos using Tapatalk
Frank Castle said:
Understood all, but how is it XDA issue, XDA doesn't monitor where, how or who, Members purchase from or where to get your devices repaired.
This is solely on the Users/Members. If others are in this situation, doing their own homework on the type of device they purchase i.e. if repairs are needed or where to get repairs or the type of development, that is solely on them.
Again, I see and understand your thought, but XDA doesnt play a part of what kind of devices Members get and where to get them repaired.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who said it's a xda issue?
I just said you could write an article about it, because I bet most people, even here, have no idea about it, until it's too late, even when they're tech savvy as myself.
You know, like I said, to raise awareness, specially nowadays, when buying online is so prevalent and you may not even have an idea where the phone came from or was intended for.
But hey, who cares, right?...
Some community standards...
Kruk07 said:
I believe you can claim warranty/repair in another country within Europe only.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You believe wrongly; if it's a grey import, it's the seller's responsibility (if you're lucky enough), not the manufacturer.
cmmx said:
Who said it's a xda issue?
I just said you could write an article about it, because I bet most people, even here, have no idea about it, until it's too late, even when they're tech savvy as myself.
You know, like I said, to raise awareness, specially nowadays, when buying online is so prevalent and you may not even have an idea where the phone came from or was intended for.
But hey, who cares, right?...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you said it was an issue, but for the buyer. Again, it falls on the buyer, be smart.
cmmx said:
You believe wrongly; if it's a grey import, it's the seller's responsibility (if you're lucky enough), not the manufacturer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again it's the buyer, who needs to know by doing his homework on the device he plans on getting.
Sent from my star2qltesq using XDA Labs
Haha, what a joke you are...
Might as well close up shop and call it a day, then, since abso****inglutely anything you could write phone (or anything else, ftm) related, could as well be said as being "up to the buyers"...
Yep, such community; much use; very information. wow...
Go bo back to your sleep, then, and sorry to have "bothered" you... not.
Well, guess snowflakes are hurt...
Time to call it...