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It would be nice to hear some opinions on this following thoughts I've had, ever since I upgraded my phone last year from an iPhone 3G (2.5mp camera I think) to an Xperia Arc S, which at the time was the highest quality / size MP camera on a phone at 8MP, which is still a decent size for a phone camera today, as mid-ranged phones usually start at around 5-8MP and the super smart phones these days are running upward of 10MP, I think 13MP is the highest, at least on Android, that Nokia Symbian phone was like... 42MP? Or at least the fidelity / quality resembled that due to its massive lens housing, god knows what was in there, but if I remember rightly it was only 5MP images... Someone correct me.
Anyway, with my Arc S at 8MP, the images are fairly decent, I mean they're never going to be used for print, so it doesn't really need to be higher. However, as an art graduate, I spend time when I can taking photographs, and I have a 14MP Sony NEX 5, which as standard is already a better quality sensor than the tiny ones that make it into a phone.
My first point is it's still only 1MP higher than these smartphones, which makes me think; say I upgrade my phone in 1 year when 16MP is the highest, now we've gone over, for me I'm reluctant to go higher than my camera because I'd probably be swayed to using the phone more for photography, though the phones would probably have to be double the MP of a decent camera to really compare.
Secondly, Lenses, well the one on my Arc S is fairly standard, though probably more complex than some others as I think it has 7 layers of various shaped pieces of glass. But when it comes down to it, any photographer will tell you it's almost 100% the lens that really makes a photograph what it is, the phones are getting better quality, but the lenses probably aren't, the phones are constantly trying to get thinner which doesn't help matters, but phones have actually gotten fatter sue to bigger screens needing bigger battery, so I'm unsure on this part of the topic.
The lenses I use on my NEX are Canon FD mounts, a format from the early to mid 70's all the way up to about 1994, they are manual lenses because of their age and incompatibility with modern auto-focus, but the quality is superb, and I'm not just saying it, one of the lenses is a 1.4 50mm prime, and can do some great shots, though the camera isn't full frame so the lens works out at 75mm, but I also have a 28mm 2.2 (I think?) prime, which works out around 42mm and is really good.
Both lenses are dated between 1972 and 1982, and no current phone could replicate the fidelity, bokeh and colour, which is one of the reasons why proper cameras will always have the advantage. (The NEX doesn't have a mirror inside so can replicate the original setup of older cameras easily, meaning a huge number of adaptors allows tons of different lenses to become available)
However with the Nokia pureview phone (still don't remember its name... 850?...) It had a body capable of housing some very interesting tech, that hasn't really been used since, at least to my knowledge. Seeing some pictures online really showed you what this phone was capable of, I think the resolution of the images were in the ten thousands X whatever, and remained really sharp, for a phone at least. Maybe it's lack of success is due to it been on a non-leading OS at the time, I can imagine people would want a camera with maybe an Android phone? (Which apparently, Nokia are working on) so maybe it will see it's true colours shine on a larger base OS. If this tech is worth the larger body size of a phone, people are going to want it...
And lastly, Convenience. One of the main points of having a camera is to be able to capture moments WHENEVER, and having a decent camera on a phone has been a growing trend over the past few years, with the growth of social networks, YouTube and Instagram. And you're more likely to have a phone with you than a camera for a situation that's spontaneous.
So what are peoples thoughts? A few months back Jessops one of the leading camera sales company in the UK went into administration, with only a few stores been saved;
Will we see a heightening trend amongst phones been used instead of standalone cameras?
Will they (DSLR's etc) be phased out completely?
Are you an avid photographer with your phone, or do you use a standalone camera?
Am I wrong?
I'd like to hear some opinions, hopefuly some educated ones on the subject will give a sense on the spectrum of issues.
Another point to consider, Smart-Cameras, the new trend of cameras running Android, though I don't think any have interchangeable lenses.
Thanks for reading, also... You may need to change some 'if's to 'of's because my phone has a habit of changing my words.
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I use my phone for everyday rubbish shots (whatsapp and such) and storing information (bustimes, lists, important stuff i take a snapshot of.) .
It will NEVER replace my DSLR.
It simply lacks the functionalities of one. So long as I can't set aperture and change lenses, it's not a real camera. I need my telezoom and macro lenses.
You can't seriously expect a phone, even that 42mp one to be as high - quality as a dslr. Too many pixels crammed into way too small a sensor. As it has always been with phones.
Not to mention, phones lack the power of a dslr. Ever tried taking nightshots with a phone? They're bad. Very bad. Or high speed shots. Nuhuh, they cant. Or far-zoom?
Lets face it, cameras on phones are not meant for professionals. They're meant for people on facebook, twitter and instagram.
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ShadowLea said:
I use my phone for everyday rubbish shots (whatsapp and such) and storing information (bustimes, lists, important stuff i take a snapshot of.) .
It will NEVER replace my DSLR.
It simply lacks the functionalities of one. So long as I can't set aperture and change lenses, it's not a real camera. I need my telezoom and macro lenses.
You can't seriously expect a phone, even that 42mp one to be as high - quality as a dslr. Too many pixels crammed into way too small a sensor. As it has always been with phones.
Not to mention, phones lack the power of a dslr. Ever tried taking nightshots with a phone? They're bad. Very bad. Or high speed shots. Nuhuh, they cant. Or far-zoom?
Lets face it, cameras on phones are not meant for professionals. They're meant for people on facebook, twitter and instagram.
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Man how can you compare a DSLR with a smartphone camera??, a DSLR is a camera with an awesome quality and the smartphone camera is only a phone with a decent camera and not for pro- photographers.. i would always choose a DLSR over a smartphone camera. And by the way i agree with ShadowLea that you can't cram 42mp in a small lens!!! it is outrageous!
Well, it's to do with trends, if you agree or not is a different matter, but lots of pro photographers and teachers will tell you if you ask, about how important this new revolution is, the quality you can get is pretty good, even compared to digital cameras less than 10 years ago.
If it can take photographs then it's a valid form, there are pro photographers then spend lots of their time using phones for photography, 5MP and decent light is enough, some of these phones are better quality than the point and shoot cameras of recent past.
Instagram, though trendy is a very valid post processing tool, just because the majority of people use it recreationaly it doesn't diminish its power, and usage.
People use Polaroid cameras all the time, and they're quite limited, and the quality can vary greatly. You can't change the lens, and you can't really adjust any settings.
Polaroid is probably most comparable to the quality of the mid range smartphones.
As for the Nokia 41MP camera phone, if you actually look at the images you can get a good sense of the quality. The short article can be found here:
http://www.extremetech.com/electron...review-camera-finally-coming-to-windows-phone
You can also easily find examples by doing an image search on Nokia Pureview.
The convenience of a very good quality camera phone can allow for great photos, which is why it's really taking off as a trend.
Denying it is the same arguments as saying Digital is better than Film, though there are still counter arguments, benefits and people still use film cameras and Polaroid.
There's a statistic recently that goes something like; there have been more photographs taken in 2012 than all previous years since photography's invention combined.
I'm not sure if that's word for word correct, but I think it was on a Vsauce YouTube video not long back.
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I think you need to understand that Professional stands for "getting paid for your work" or "being an accomplished/awarded photographer" and not "I can hold a camera!".
Yes, there have been more photo's taken in the last year than since the invention of the photograph. I do hope you are also aware that this includes every halfbrained moron on Instagram and Facebook posting their friday-night drunk shots.
No selfrespecting real photographer uses a phone's camera for his or her work. The only ones that do are either A, doing an experiment, or B, people on the internet fooling themselves into thinking they're photographers.
PHONE CAMERAS DO NOT HAVE APERATURE SETTINGS. And that's where it all ends. There isn't a single pro or semi-pro who uses a fixed aperature camera.
42MP doesn't make a bloody difference if the sensor is meant for 2MP. The photo's may look fine on the internet, but newsflash: Your monitor is 72DPI, not 300. And a 6000x6000 pixel image is always going to look amazing when downsized to 1920x1080 or lower. (which is what every website does.)
As for trends, they're for the common cattle, not semi/professionals. People with knowledge and experience pay attention to specs, not to hypes.
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ShadowLea said:
I think you need to understand that Professional stands for "getting paid for your work" or "being an accomplished/awarded photographer" and not "I can hold a camera!".
Yes, there have been more photo's taken in the last year than since the invention of the photograph. I do hope you are also aware that this includes every halfbrained moron on Instagram and Facebook posting their friday-night drunk shots.
No selfrespecting real photographer uses a phone's camera for his or her work. The only ones that do are either A, doing an experiment, or B, people on the internet fooling themselves into thinking they're photographers.
PHONE CAMERAS DO NOT HAVE APERATURE SETTINGS. And that's where it all ends. There isn't a single pro or semi-pro who uses a fixed aperature camera.
42MP doesn't make a bloody difference if the sensor is meant for 2MP. The photo's may look fine on the internet, but newsflash: Your monitor is 72DPI, not 300. And a 6000x6000 pixel image is always going to look amazing when downsized to 1920x1080 or lower. (which is what every website does.)
As for trends, they're for the common cattle, not semi/professionals. People with knowledge and experience pay attention to specs, not to hypes.
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I think you're missing my point, I meant professional photographers that use iPhones for photography for non print, recreation, street photography etc.
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For those interested in hearing a pro talk about it, I present, Chase Jarvis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buDa-m65RyA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Hi everyone,
So I've been looking at the mate 8 as my next purchase, and Some reviews state the camera quality isn't good due to software/firmware issues. Other reviews state the camera quality is really good. I was wondering what owners opinions are? If it does have exposure and focus issues, are they sorted if you use a different camera app? I don't know if different apps can alter issues that might be related to firmware?
Thanks
Ian
I wouldn't consider myself a power user but I'm very happy with the camera so far. I would mostly be taking pictures of friends and family etc and quality is just fine for me
I'm the same, mainly I'll be taking pictures of the family and scenery, that kinda thing. I'm not what you'd call a professional photographer by any means. But it is said the best camera you have is the one on you at the time, so I just want to make sure it's a relatively good one
Thanks
Ian
Camera was bad with the first update
But with latest update it became better
But if you are seeking for great camera go for lg or sam
If you wanna a power horse phablet go for mate 8
That's the thing, I've had both Samsung and LG phones before, and while the cameras were good I wasn't keen on the phones themselves. I've had a G3, a Note 4, an S6 and a Oneplus One. I was half considering a Oneplus 2, but only because of the price. £249 is cheap for a high spec phone. I'm not keen on the nexus line of phones either. I know they are popular, and you probably think I'm mad. But they are just a bog standard android phone. If I'm paying more than £400 for a phone I want it to do more than the straight forward stuff, straight out the box. Other wise id just get an iPhone. Half the stuff on the Mate 8 I'll probably never use I admit, but the fact its there is what I like. Does that make sense?
Has anybody tried a different camera app from the play store to see if that improves the pictures, or isn't it as simple as that? I'm not sure how apps, firmware, API's and hardware all tie in together, so I apologise in advance if that was a stupid question.
Thanks
Ian
The camera is a so and so in my eyes. It's ok, but very soft, in daytime but I wouldn't pick it to take pictures of kids indoor. Right now the best all around camera I have is the Nexus 6P, mostly because it will do really good indoors and most of my pics are indoors. I read that there will be a upgrade for the camera after 162 firmwarewize. Otherwise, it's a really good phone. Apps doesn't do better than stock camera.
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The camera is fine. It's not the best camera out there in terms of image quality when you zoom in on the pictures but it does the job. It has good colors and good exposure. It's fun to shoot with. I think quality should be able to be fixed with software update. I find that some indoor night shots almost have the same amount of detail as some of the ones shoot in daylight. The processing seems to heavy creating artefacts in images taken even in daylight.
The Mate 8 is pretty much the perfect phone in every way except the camera is not top notch. Excellent screen that is more clear and has better contrast than the screen on my iPhone 6S Plus. The battery life is the best you can get on any phone now. The build quality is fantastic. Audio quality in headphones is top notch, best I've every heard in any phone the dynamic range and clarity is amazing. Even better than my Meizu Pro 5 that has an internal DAC and amplifiers in it. It is super fast and has a very smooth and responsive UI.
Thank you for your input. You guys have confirmed the fact that the mate 8 will be my next phone just got to wait for it to come into stock again now!
Thanks
Ian
http://forum.xda-developers.com/mate-8/general/post-camera-picture-t3303629
next time just use ForumSearch
I know the pixel is better, but I want to understand the difference.
Up until a few weeks ago I had a Nexus 5x. I loved it, especially the camera!
However the Nexus 5x died, and I replaced it with a brand new OnePlus 5t. The screen is amazing, it's runs pretty much stock Android, and the battery life was astounding. But I returned it after 2 days because the camera wasn't even as good as my Nexus 5x.
In bright daylight the OnePlus 5t takes lovely pictures, but in every other scenario it's pretty rubbish (in my opinion).
I mainly use my camera by just whipping it out of my pocket, pointing, and shooting. The Nexus excelled at this. The OnePlus 5t gave me shots with lots of motion blur, lots of noise, and they weren't exposed properly. Most of the photos I took were unusable.
So, the OnePlus 5t went back and I got a Pixel 2. It's a smaller screen and a way worse battery life, but it's by far the best point-and-shoot camera phone I've had, even better than the Nexus 5x. To be honest it's not that much better than the Nexus 5x, but the fact it has OIS does make a big difference to some shots. I love it.
So, if you mainly take photos of things that don't move (landscapes and still life) and can stand really still when you take a photo, the OnePlus 5t will take lovely photos.
If you take photos of people/things that move, or anything indoors, then Pixel 2 (or a second-hand Nexus 5x!) will serve you way better.
Hope that helps!
richhhh said:
Up until a few weeks ago I had a Nexus 5x. I loved it, especially the camera!
However the Nexus 5x died, and I replaced it with a brand new OnePlus 5t. The screen is amazing, it's runs pretty much stock Android, and the battery life was astounding. But I returned it after 2 days because the camera wasn't even as good as my Nexus 5x.
In bright daylight the OnePlus 5t takes lovely pictures, but in every other scenario it's pretty rubbish (in my opinion).
I mainly use my camera by just whipping it out of my pocket, pointing, and shooting. The Nexus excelled at this. The OnePlus 5t gave me shots with lots of motion blur, lots of noise, and they weren't exposed properly. Most of the photos I took were unusable.
So, the OnePlus 5t went back and I got a Pixel 2. It's a smaller screen and a way worse battery life, but it's by far the best point-and-shoot camera phone I've had, even better than the Nexus 5x. To be honest it's not that much better than the Nexus 5x, but the fact it has OIS does make a big difference to some shots. I love it.
So, if you mainly take photos of things that don't move (landscapes and still life) and can stand really still when you take a photo, the OnePlus 5t will take lovely photos.
If you take photos of people/things that move, or anything indoors, then Pixel 2 (or a second-hand Nexus 5x!) will serve you way better.
Hope that helps!
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Wow, I never thought the camera was worse than the last generation smartphone. And you are saying if there is no real light the camera is not good, right?
JosephECorson said:
Wow, I never thought the camera was worse than the last generation smartphone. And you are saying if there is no real light the camera is not good, right?
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The 5T is using the same sensor as the 3T, so the technology is maybe 1 year newer than the 5X. Against which it's a significantly smaller sensor (less light) with more pixels (so more noise). So it's not totally shocking if the 5X camera does perform better.
Anyway, a big part of phone camera performance is the processing rather than the sensor (which Google have certainly been concentrating on in the last couple of years). And at the time of the 5T's release theirs was, well, not good. Look at this image from GSMArena's review, click on the zoom button, and when you've finished admiring the total lack of texture in the leaves and branches take a look at the grass between the fallen leaves and the house. It's many years since I've seen any camera do that type of watercolour smearing in a daylight photo, and I hope for their customers' sake that OnePlus have been doing something about this.
(It's not a one-off either: they published a set of preview photos before their review, and some of those were comically bad. You could have used them as a teaching aid to show students how not to do image processing).
JosephECorson said:
Wow, I never thought the camera was worse than the last generation smartphone. And you are saying if there is no real light the camera is not good, right?
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That was my experience, yes. It was bad in low light and bad with any movement (of either your hands holding the camera or of a subject in the frame)
I've found a lot of camera reviews for phone cameras don't take into account real-world usage. They're all set up in studios, or taking photos of a random building, or a flower, and then another flower, or a posed portrait where the subject is dead still. All very 'traditional' photography setups looking more at the colour reproduction and exposure.
Very few (non that I've actually found!) take into account how it performs as something people pull out of their pocket to capture an unposed, often badly lit, fleeting moment. If they did, most would likely find the OnePlus 5t churns out a blurry mess, and the Pixel 2 (while far from perfect and still no competition for an actual small point-and-shoot camera) does just fine.
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Large Hadron said:
Anyway, a big part of phone camera performance is the processing rather than the sensor (which Google have certainly been concentrating on in the last couple of years).
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I 100% agree with that too.
And yes, you can get the Google Camera port for other phones these days which brings their incredible HDR+ processing to other phones, and I did actually try it on the OnePlus 5t (it improved visual quality and processing, but didn't help with any of the inherent problems).
But you have to manually keep that ported/hacked app updated, and it might not be very stable, or not save the actual file sometimes.
Whereas on the Pixel/Nexus it's built in by default and 'just works', and works very well in a lot of situations, which is all you can hope for
richhhh said:
So, if you mainly take photos of things that don't move (landscapes and still life) and can stand really still when you take a photo, the OnePlus 5t will take lovely photos.
If you take photos of people/things that move, or anything indoors, then Pixel 2 (or a second-hand Nexus 5x!) will serve you way better.
Hope that helps!
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Agree with this 100%. I had the OP5T for 10 days and tried every setting I could think of and a variety of apps/apks to improve the quality but in the end there was always some compromise.
Almost all of the photos I take are of my children and the quality was particularly poor (in my opinion) if the conditions weren't perfect (lighting, kids standing perfectly still, my hands perfectly stable etc.). If you need a phone camera to 'capture the moment' by just pointing and shooting then you may be very disappointed by the 5T
Large Hadron said:
It's many years since I've seen any camera do that type of watercolour smearing in a daylight photo, and I hope for their customers' sake that OnePlus have been doing something about this.
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And the 5T sometimes did this 'watercolour smearing' to the skin on my children's faces which was the last straw for me. In many cases my older Xiaomi mi5 was taking better pictures.
So I sent it back and bought the Pixel 2 and the difference is night & day. I'm really trying to take a bad picture with the Pixel 2 but keep failing
As it stands today, the Pixel Camera is considered by most to be the Gold Standard. Most of the magic happens after the picture is taken via software. Why can't One Plus figure this magic out to some degree? The sensors are more than capable. The stock camera doesn't take bad pictures, but certainly inconsistent. My Pixel 2 XL blows the stock camera on the One Plus 7 Pro out of the water. The Gcam mods help and I appreciate the work by those devs, but this should be handled by One Plus. Is the software magic that hard to replicate by One Plus?
Lesser Version said:
As it stands today, the Pixel Camera is considered by most to be the Gold Standard. Most of the magic happens after the picture is taken via software. Why can't One Plus figure this magic out to some degree? The sensors are more than capable. The stock camera doesn't take bad pictures, but certainly inconsistent. My Pixel 2 XL blows the stock camera on the One Plus 7 Pro out of the water. The Gcam mods help and I appreciate the work by those devs, but this should be handled by One Plus. Is the software magic that hard to replicate by One Plus?
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Yes it's a bit difficult. Here's why...
https://www.phonearena.com/news/Nig...-Ultra-wide-cameras-on-OnePlus-7-Pro_id117647
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I always thought it looked amazing, especially on the phone's display.
I guess if you're more into cameras you notice these things.
Also looks great to me...
slayerh4x said:
I always thought it looked amazing, especially on the phone's display.
I guess if you're more into cameras you notice these things.
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All depends on your expectations. I think the pics from the stock camera looks pretty great, especially in good light. The original poster is comparing the photo quality to the Pixel 2 XL, so I can't make that comparison personally. For me, on one hand, if I really want the best image quality, I'll use my "real camera". On the other hand, I'm usually pretty impressed when I do use my 7 Pro for snapshots.
To address the original poster's question, the big difference is that Google has nearly endless cash and resources to throw at what they think is important. And it's pretty clear they look at the camera on the Pixel line as a discriminator; and versus the likes of Samsung and Apple (if not in sales numbers, than by device price and "flagship" device status). Where OnePlus is a pretty small company, content with existing in a more "value" priced space (even if the price keep incrementally bumping up with each iteration). OnePlus phones doesn't quite max out the specs in every category (we all know that), but they give us a great device for a great price.
A big notch, chin, and bezel usually comes with the pixel camera
Google and other OEMs have extensive resources in their software department. Google has AI and resources to focus on photography. It's amazing me that Oneplus cameras can rival many flagships.
galaxys said:
A big notch, chin, and bezel usually comes with the pixel camera
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This made me laugh this morning......thanks!
Robert235 said:
Google and other OEMs have extensive resources in their software department. Google has AI and resources to focus on photography. It's amazing me that Oneplus cameras can rival many flagships.
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My thoughts exactly. Not only does Google have the cash to burn, but also massive amounts of data to draw upon for their AI machine learning. Plus, development of image AI probably has tons of applications for other Google projects, besides just the camera app or the Pixel phones. So it probably makes perfect sense in the bigger picture for Google to be spending resources on the camera app and related technologies.
None of this really applies to OnePlus. They are just a relatively small company making some nice phones.
This whole subject on phones and cameras makes me laugh all the time. I'm an enthusiast photog and do a lot of photography. I have some serious equipment just to give some background. These phones are point and shoot cameras. They do extremely well in all situations really. They generally take a photo at comparable quality as a DSLR from 10 years ago. if I need serious photos, I'll look out my gear. These phones are more than enough for 90% of anyone taking photos. I can use my OnePlus 7 pro in manual mode and get photos good enough to be used professionally. In auto I can get better than most DSLR cameras from 10 years ago.
Every phone camera has flaws, including pixel, Samsung, Huawei and apple. That's why in these photo camera comparisons the op7 is best in a certain situation, Samsung is better here and apple is better there. This is why people like myself still spend $3-4k on camera like a Nikon D850. I use my phone camera probably 85% of the time, they are still that good
Two months into owning the OnePlus 7 Pro, and several updates later, I have come to the conclusion that the camera on this phone is incredibly bad. Most photos taken indoors with decent lighting are so soft, they look like paintings. The details on videos are so bad, everything looks ugly. I have tried Gcam but it still doesn’t come close to my S9 Plus, heck even my iPhone 7 Plus. The only thing it’s got going is the wide angle.
Can software updates really help the situation or is hardware the problem here? I wonder how much money DxOMark made from this company.